Derrick Rose says PED's a big problem in NBA

[e-LIMON-ators]

In the May 16th issue of ESPN the Magazine, Derrick Rose was asked:

"On a scale of 1 to 10, how big of an issue is illegal enhancing in the NBA?"

Derrick Rose: " Seven. It's huge and I think we need a level playing field where nobody has that advantage over the next person."

http://insider.espn.go.com/insider/espnmag

page 50
:eek: :( :mad:

[Sarcastic]

Dwight, Wade, Lebron.

[TennesseeFan]

Wow, seriously?

[Goliath Uterus]

I think he was more saying that PED's themselves are a problem, rather than PED use in the NBA is problem. I could be wrong though.

[Soothing Layup]

*Cough* Dwight *Cough* LBJ *Cough* Dirk Nowitzki *Cough*

[TennesseeFan]

*Cough* Dwight *Cough* LBJ *Cough* Dirk Nowitzki *Cough*

Sprechen sie deutsch?

[LA_Showtime]

*Cough* Dwight *Cough* LBJ *Cough* Dirk Nowitzki *Cough*
:lol

[Sarcastic]

*Cough* Dwight *Cough* LBJ *Cough* Dirk Nowitzki *Cough*

If Dirk is on steroids, then he is doing it wrong.

[dee-rose]

*Cough* Dwight *Cough* LBJ *Cough* Dirk Nowitzki *Cough*

http://media.nscdn.com/uploads/cache/images/1245891392-795145-400x445-Watermelon_lol_wut.jpg

[Christofire]

If Dirk is on steroids, then he is doing it wrong.

lol..he should get a refund on his roids...lol

[lilgodfather1]

I could see it. Look at some of these big maf's. LeBron, Dwight, Lamar Odom, etc. Some of these guys are huge, and LeBron is to big to be real imo.

[LA_Showtime]

We all thought it was hilarious how Rashard Lewis had used steroids too, and yet he completely fell off after he stopped using.

[LA_Showtime]

I could see it. Look at some of these big maf's. LeBron, Dwight, Lamar Odom, etc. Some of these guys are huge, and LeBron is to big to be real imo.

Some people are just built that way. I doubt any of the three you mention do 'roids. I do think LeBron and probably Dwight take creatine, though. That would explain the appearance of gaining/losing weight.

And if anyone's taking 'roids, it's Wade. I remember thinking "what the hell" when I saw him bulked up during the Olympic games. But again, it could just be a product of having special genes, world class trainers, etc.

[RoseCity07]

Not sure how much steroids can help a basketball player. you can't enhance cardio by using them. Stretch is great but can throw your shot off. Being bulky doesn't exaclt give a person shooting touch, just look at lebron

Makes me think he does take roids.

[LA_Showtime]

Not sure how much steroids can help a basketball player. you can't enhance cardio by using them. Stretch is great but can throw your shot off. Being bulky doesn't exaclt give a person shooting touch, just look at lebron

Makes me think he does take roids.

They would help tremendously. They help with explosion. They improve your recovery. If the negatives weren't so devastating I'm sure more people would use them.

LeBron's an interesting case. He's clearly a step or two slower this season. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about steroids to determine whether that could be attributed to steroid use or not.

[InspiredLebowski]

Someone with Insider source this or it's getting deleted. This kind of statement doesn't get made by a player of this caliber in the middle of the playoffs w/o it being picked up by multiple outlets.

[theaussieguy]

They would help tremendously. They help with explosion. They improve your recovery. If the negatives weren't so devastating I'm sure more people would use them.

LeBron's an interesting case. He's clearly a step or two slower this season. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about steroids to determine whether that could be attributed to steroid use or not.


lol this. If u can just barely dunk not using roids, you will be a high flyer after using them. Working out alone causes a tremendous leap in your vertical alone, providing you lift heavy squats and dead lifts, so imagine adding PED's to that.

And i resent the whole, steroids make you way bulky hence bad at basketball. It all depends how you train. You can certainly make explosive gains without adding a huge amount of mass, look at cycling for example. The majority use it, yet they arn't huge apart from a few because that would be detrimental at the end of the day.

[lilgodfather1]

They would help tremendously. They help with explosion. They improve your recovery. If the negatives weren't so devastating I'm sure more people would use them.

LeBron's an interesting case. He's clearly a step or two slower this season. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about steroids to determine whether that could be attributed to steroid use or not.
World class sprinter Ben Johnson used stereroids as well. Speed can be improved by certain types of stereroids as far as I know it is HGH. Maybe LeBron's mom put HGH in his Kool Aid as a kid? I really don't know, he has gotten HUGE since he got into the NBA and he was big before that.

[theaussieguy]

Someone with Insider source this or it's getting deleted. This kind of statement doesn't get made by a player of this caliber in the middle of the playoffs w/o it being picked up by multiple outlets.
did u even read the OP

[KelticForce1349]

Not sure how much steroids can help a basketball player. you can't enhance cardio by using them. Stretch is great but can throw your shot off. Being bulky doesn't exaclt give a person shooting touch, just look at lebron

Makes me think he does take roids.

Steroids give you much greater stamina and faster recovery time from injuries. Considering the length of the season, the games, the practice time, etc. I can see why many of these guys feel they need a boost.

I think it is similar to the way many touring musicians end up doing cocaine or speed. If you have to perform 100 concerts in the next 4 months that is a lot of energy used, and it's not from being high on life and having God in your heart.

[DuMa]

sometimes i wonder how rose and kobe can play on rolled ankles in just 2 days

[LA_Showtime]

lol this. If u can just barely dunk not using roids, you will be a high flyer after using them. Working out alone causes a tremendous leap in your vertical alone, providing you lift heavy squats and dead lifts, so imagine adding PED's to that.

And i resent the whole, steroids make you way bulky hence bad at basketball. It all depends how you train. You can certainly make explosive gains without adding a huge amount of mass, look at cycling for example. The majority use it, yet they arn't huge apart from a few because that would be detrimental at the end of the day.

Yeah, it amazes me how people think it's so damn easy to get big/bulky. IT AIN'T THAT EASY, trust me. You've got to eat at surplus and make sure you're getting adequate protein. You've got to work hard. Most importantly, you've got to have the genes for it.

*Pictures a 20-year-old chick at the gym who refuses to lift weights because she doesn't want to get fat*

[inclinerator]

why surprised? these are the best of the best athletes

[LA_Showtime]

World class sprinter Ben Johnson used stereroids as well. Speed can be improved by certain types of stereroids as far as I know it is HGH. Maybe LeBron's mom put HGH in his Kool Aid as a kid? I really don't know, he has gotten HUGE since he got into the NBA and he was big before that.

Again, it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to say. LeBron could just be a freak athlete. Some guys can just put on muscle, too. I remember a video where Shannon Brown said he stopped lifting weights and only does push ups because he was getting too bulky.

[InspiredLebowski]

did u even read the OPWithout being an Insider you can only got 16 pages deep.

[jrong]

Dwight, Wade, Lebron.

Even if that were true, Wade was way better than Rose is now even before he allegedly used steroids (2008).

[LA_Showtime]

Here's a question: How many of you guys would take steroids if you had a personal trainer who knew how to cycle them, and you could get away with it without anyone knowing a thing?

[theaussieguy]

Yeah, it amazes me how people think it's so damn easy to get big/bulky. IT AIN'T THAT EASY, trust me. You've got to eat at surplus and make sure you're getting adequate protein. You've got to work hard. Most importantly, you've got to have the genes for it.

*Pictures a 20-year-old chick at the gym who refuses to lift weights because she doesn't want to get fat*

hahaha, are u a miscer man? i agree with you completely. I rage at chicks who go to the gym, then go and get maccas afterwards, and i super rage when i hear, "ewww i just want to get toned, i don't want to get massive"

[LA_Showtime]

hahaha, are u a miscer man? i agree with you completely. I rage at chicks who go to the gym, then go and get maccas afterwards, and i super rage when i hear, "ewww i just want to get toned, i don't want to get massive"

I am not, no. But I, like every guy, wanted to get big and bulky at one point in my life. Unfortunately/fortunately, my metabolism's really high so I was eating in excess in 4,000 calories. **** that. (Note I was trying to eat clean, which means stuff like brown rice, oatmeal, eggs, chicken, etc.)

BTW, I'm 20. Most chicks tend to dig the leaner look anyway. I think most bodybuilders look like meat heads.

[Harison]

Its a major problem in all sports, not just basketball and NBA. Its a huge business, and owners/players are very much interested in everything what can give them an edge. If they are smart, they dont get caught, plus pharmacists and latest breakthroughs in various enhancements is beyond outdated testing.

[lilgodfather1]

Again, it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to say. LeBron could just be a freak athlete. Some guys can just put on muscle, too. I remember a video where Shannon Brown said he stopped lifting weights and only does push ups because he was getting too bulky.
He could just be a freak athlete, and he was in HS regardless of PED's or not. I believe it to, once you start working out hard like i'm sure Brown does you get stronger and you can lift more weight and that causes you to get more bulk.

[KelticForce1349]

Here's a question: How many of you guys would take steroids if you had a personal trainer who knew how to cycle them, and you could get away with it without anyone knowing a thing?


If I was certain I would not get caught I would take them as a professional athlete; really just for the increased recovery time from injuries alone. The inhuman stamina would be a huge boost. The ability to get stronger never hurts.

Just make sure that my Swedish trainer, Mr. Ster Roid is using a clean needle.

[theaussieguy]

I am not, no. But I, like every guy, wanted to get big and bulky at one point in my life. Unfortunately/fortunately, my metabolism's really high so I was eating in excess in 4,000 calories. **** that. (Note I was trying to eat clean, which means stuff like brown rice, oatmeal, eggs, chicken, etc.)

BTW, I'm 20. Most chicks tend to dig the leaner look anyway. I think most bodybuilders look like meat heads.

yeah i got an uber fast one too, i am at least a mesomorph tho just a really lean one. Yeah i would not want to look like a pro body builder at all, just too far

[LA_Showtime]

Has anyone taken steroids or HGH here? You would think on a competitive basketball forum at least one person would have some type of experience with it.

[nbaballllller]

Yeah, it amazes me how people think it's so damn easy to get big/bulky. IT AIN'T THAT EASY, trust me. You've got to eat at surplus and make sure you're getting adequate protein. You've got to work hard. Most importantly, you've got to have the genes for it.

*Pictures a 20-year-old chick at the gym who refuses to lift weights because she doesn't want to get fat*

From some of your posts in this thread it is clear you have no idea wtf you are talking about when it come to PED's.

No hate, but you just dont.

Anyways, you have to realize we aren't just talking about normal people here. We are talking about some of the most genetically gifted people on the planet (lebron). These dudes just have to look at a barbell and they add muscle lol. Plus factor in personal chiefs and amazing trainers. Their results are going to be a lot different than normal people.

With that being said I am sure that these athletes push the absolute limits with different products to ensure recovery from injuries and games etc.

[creamanshrimp]

Not sure how much steroids can help a basketball player. you can't enhance cardio by using them. Stretch is great but can throw your shot off. Being bulky doesn't exaclt give a person shooting touch, just look at lebron

Makes me think he does take roids.

are u ****in stupid? your whole argument is now invalid. a 400mg dose of test a week will double your red blood cell count. twice the red blood cells=twice the stamina/recovering power

[LA_Showtime]

He could just be a freak athlete, and he was in HS regardless of PED's or not. I believe it to, once you start working out hard like i'm sure Brown does you get stronger and you can lift more weight and that causes you to get more bulk.

Yeah. I had a friend in high school who was 5'10 his junior year. He grew to be 6'6 by the end of his senior year and had put on at least 80-90 pounds, and he was still ridiculously light. He now plays football at a Division I school and he's probably gained another 90 or so pounds and he still looks lean. Absolutely ridiculous. Offensive lineman, red shirt freshman, may play this year... he switched from DT.

[theaussieguy]

oh yeah, and there are PED's that make you leaner, like clen, which increase the amount of DHT in your system. These are the ones that make you really cut. If anything i would say Lebron you would of used that. Look at his calves from when he first came into the league and now. I just think theres a bigger change than what would happen naturally. I mean he had been playing bball his whole life, yet his legs were still completedly toneless. Now they are cut up.

It is also corroborated by his hair loss. Clen and cutting agents cause the most amount of hairloss because of dht

[creamanshrimp]

Has anyone taken steroids or HGH here? You would think on a competitive basketball forum at least one person would have some type of experience with it.

me. it makes you a superhuman to say the least. everything grows INCLUDING your dick, it doubles in size. your mental state of mind is unmatched, you feel like you are the baddest mfker in the world. you can workout for days. its awesome

[bmulls]

Here's a question: How many of you guys would take steroids if you had a personal trainer who knew how to cycle them, and you could get away with it without anyone knowing a thing?

I use AAS for bodybuilding purposes. The funny thing here is that by banning steroids outright, they are likely putting these players at greater risk. If used responsibly, with proper post cycle therapy and the right ancillary drugs (HCG, aromatase inhibitors) steroids can be 100% safe. You even have testosterone replacement therapy nowadays where doctors prescribe you testosterone injections.

We all know they are using PEDs, but the steroids that are known to be safe are also easily tested for. So these guys are likely using brand new types of crazy ass peptides, like GHRP6, IGF-1 and other stuff. These are the "next generation" of steroids, and the problem is there isn't any case studies on them. Most of them aren't even illegal because the FDA doesn't know wtf they are.

With testosterone, you can go on the internet and find 1000s of peer reviewed medical studies. With these new drugs there are none, so who knows what kinds of problems these guys are setting themselves up for?

[lilgodfather1]

I am not, no. But I, like every guy, wanted to get big and bulky at one point in my life. Unfortunately/fortunately, my metabolism's really high so I was eating in excess in 4,000 calories. **** that. (Note I was trying to eat clean, which means stuff like brown rice, oatmeal, eggs, chicken, etc.)

BTW, I'm 20. Most chicks tend to dig the leaner look anyway. I think most bodybuilders look like meat heads.
Chicks our age do tend to like leaner guys (i'm 19 for another month), but some girls do like us bigger guys. I made the best I could out of my physical measurements. I'm 230 now (dropped about 15 pounds) and I am still continuing with my weight training. I really want to be Canada's Strongest Man, not likely though.

[LA_Showtime]

From some of your posts in this thread it is clear you have no idea wtf you are talking about when it come to PED's.

No hate, but you just dont.

Anyways, you have to realize we aren't just talking about normal people here. We are talking about some of the most genetically gifted people on the planet (lebron). These dudes just have to look at a barbell and they add muscle lol. Plus factor in personal chiefs and amazing trainers. Their results are going to be a lot different than normal people.

With that being said I am sure that these athletes push the absolute limits with different products to ensure recovery from injuries and games etc.

I was referring to myself. The average Joe can't just pick up a set of barbells and put on a bunch of muscle. It's hard to get big (without just getting fat, I guess I should have clarified my previous statement).

Yeah, most athletes are ridiculously gifted, so what? Not all of 'em are. Durant is clearly in the second group.

[LA_Showtime]

Chicks our age do tend to like leaner guys (i'm 19 for another month), but some girls do like us bigger guys. I made the best I could out of my physical measurements. I'm 230 now (dropped about 15 pounds) and I am still continuing with my weight training. I really want to be Canada's Strongest Man, not likely though.

Yeah, definitely true.

[Haymaker]

Imagine if they stopped using PED's. The all-star game would be on the level of a WNBA game full of lethargic players shooting jumpers the whole night.

[Harison]

Again, it's almost IMPOSSIBLE to say. LeBron could just be a freak athlete. Some guys can just put on muscle, too. I remember a video where Shannon Brown said he stopped lifting weights and only does push ups because he was getting too bulky.
Agreed, for example Rashard Lewis was mentioned, and he isnt even freakishly bulky or anything, you wouldnt even say he has some side effects... other than playing like crap after stopping using them :oldlol:


Here's a question: How many of you guys would take steroids if you had a personal trainer who knew how to cycle them, and you could get away with it without anyone knowing a thing?
Athletes gets tremendous pressure to perform to the max and beyond, they have huge ego and wants to overachieve, plus millions (or even hundreds of millions) dollars are on the line. And then trainer/doctor says they can give you PED's which will help player to get all of that, and with minimal (if any) side effects, plus he knows how to get around tests.

Questions same as yours - how many would refuse? Correct answer - not many would refuse.

I had a childhood friend who was in youth Olympics swimming team, when we talked about PED's he just laughed, and said everyone is taking them.

[KevinNYC]

You can certainly make explosive gains without adding a huge amount of mass, look at cycling for example. The majority use it, yet they arn't huge apart from a few because that would be detrimental at the end of the day.

The Performance enhancing drug that cyclist use is not steriods. Road cyclists like the guys in the Tour de France do not want extra muscle because it would slow them down in the mountains.

The main PED that cyclists use are blood enhancers like EPO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_doping_cases_in_cycling) that allows you get more oxygen in your blood. That is they use it to enhance their cardio. Using EPO allows you to perform at a high level for longer.

Tyler Hamilton used a steroid when he fell behind in the Tour De France and he was caught immediately for it.

[OKCThunderUP]

They would help tremendously. They help with explosion. They improve your recovery. If the negatives weren't so devastating I'm sure more people would use them.

LeBron's an interesting case. He's clearly a step or two slower this season. Unfortunately, I don't know enough about steroids to determine whether that could be attributed to steroid use or not.

The only thing you're correct about here is their help in recovery. They don't make you more explosive.

[LA_Showtime]

I'd be tempted to use steroids but I've read those horror stories where they don't cycle properly and end up with Gyno (also what I call that Ginobli/DMavs41 fan)

[LA_Showtime]

The only thing you're correct about here is their help in recovery. They don't make you more explosive.

Help you put on muscle + proper lifts = explosion. I guess I skipped a step. Happy?

[OKCThunderUP]

I'd be tempted to use steroids but I've read those horror stories where they don't cycle properly and end up with Gyno (also what I call that Ginobli/DMavs41 fan)

So take a SERM...it's that easy. No gyno. You'll have dry joints for a few weeks though.

The side effects aren't as bad as the media and others let you on to believe.

[adri41]

As a "chick", I just wanted to point out that the ideal is a balance. Not bulked up like the Hulk, but not too skinny. Blake Griffin, for example, is kind of bigger than what I'd usually go for, but his body is sick. Dwight Howard (though I can appreciate it) is scary big. His shoulders are bigger than his head.

[LA_Showtime]

So take a SERM...it's that easy. No gyno. You'll have dry joints for a few weeks though.

The side effects aren't as bad as the media and others let you on to believe.

I believe that. I'm cycling on creatine right now and everyone warns me about it destroying my kidneys. I've read that's highly improbable anymore, unless I'm extremely ignorant.

EPO sounds interesting. Anything more about that? Is it illegal? How would you even get it?

[bmulls]

The only thing you're correct about here is their help in recovery. They don't make you more explosive.

You say "they" like every PED does the same thing. Not even every AAS does the same thing. Then besides AAS you have HGH, peptides, stimulants and god knows what else millionaire athletes have access too.

There are many steroids that will increase explosiveness. Sprinter Ben Johnson was caught on Winstrol. I know several track athletes who take Anavar. Neither of these drugs will build you much muscle mass on their own, but they will absolutely give a good boost to strength, explosiveness and recovery. Then you have Equipoise, which I understand many cyclists take for increased red blood cell count, but without the strong androgenic effects of testosterone.

Bottom line, there are many types of steroids/PEDs with many different effects.

[LA_Showtime]

As a "chick", I just wanted to point out that the ideal is a balance. Not bulked up like the Hulk, but not too skinny. Blake Griffin, for example, is kind of bigger than what I'd usually go for, but his body is sick. Dwight Howard (though I can appreciate it) is scary big. His shoulders are bigger than his head.

What's your take on weight lifting? One reason chicks gain the freshman 15 in college and never recover (even if they lose weight) is because their body fat percentage never goes down to what it was in high school.

(We all know that ridiculously hot girl who drank a little too much on the weekends and is now a pig)

[lilgodfather1]

I'd be tempted to use steroids but I've read those horror stories where they don't cycle properly and end up with Gyno (also what I call that Ginobli/DMavs41 fan)
Haha i'm with you on that. I have a sort of "freind" who by all accounts barring a major injury was going to play in the CFL. He started taking something anabolic and I don't know what happened but his bicep kind of blew up one day lol. Freaking gross.

[Kombo]

Yeah, it amazes me how people think it's so damn easy to get big/bulky. IT AIN'T THAT EASY, trust me. You've got to eat at surplus and make sure you're getting adequate protein. You've got to work hard. Most importantly, you've got to have the genes for it.

*Pictures a 20-year-old chick at the gym who refuses to lift weights because she doesn't want to get fat*

I think, for a normal person, it's something like you can gain muscle up to 2% of your body weight with 2 months of resistance training.

So if you're a 130 lb girl, and you work out 3-4 times a week with weights, you'll gain like 2.5 lbs is all. Not to mention you're increased metabolic rate you'll at worst stay about the same weight, but look slightly better.

I think where a lot of people get scared of lifting weights, is really with their diets. So many people eat such little food, but it's crap food that's an amazingly high concentration of calories. When they start weight lifting they'll be hungry and it's easy to consume up to 50% more calories from all the processed foods we have available to us.

A pound of muscle burns up to 50 calories a day and so the extra 100 calories you're burning a day from you're 2% muscle gain, is completely negated by your 500 calorie starbucks drink.

So lets say you're taking in 200 more calories now than you're burning from eating all this shit. After 2 months that can be 3.5 lbs of fat, plus the 2.5 lbs from muscle. You have a very freaked out young girl on a scale up to 136 from 130 before she did any resistance training.

Of course these are all generalizations, I'm tired, and have no idea what I'm talking about...

[OKCThunderUP]

I believe that. I'm cycling on creatine right now and everyone warns me about it destroying my kidneys. I've read that's highly improbable anymore, unless I'm extremely ignorant.

EPO sounds interesting. Anything more about that? Is it illegal? How would you even get it?

You don't have to cycle creatine...

Most of the myths surrounding both cycling it and it destroying your kidneys was disproved a few years ago. It's all a bunch of faux science. Creatine is good stuff.

[lilgodfather1]

As a "chick", I just wanted to point out that the ideal is a balance. Not bulked up like the Hulk, but not too skinny. Blake Griffin, for example, is kind of bigger than what I'd usually go for, but his body is sick. Dwight Howard (though I can appreciate it) is scary big. His shoulders are bigger than his head.
Hello "a chick" lol. I've kind of got Dwight shoulders just not as pushed forward and my head is bigger than them lol.

[LA_Showtime]

I think, for a normal person, it's something like you can gain muscle up to 2% of your body weight with 2 months of resistance training.

So if you're a 130 lb girl, and you work out 3-4 times a week with weights, you'll gain like 2.5 lbs is all. Not to mention you're increased metabolic rate you'll at worst stay about the same weight, but look slightly better.

I think where a lot of people get scared of lifting weights, is really with their diets. So many people eat such little food, but it's crap food that's an amazingly high concentration of calories. When they start weight lifting they'll be hungry and it's easy to consume up to 50% more calories from all the processed foods we have available to us.

A pound of muscle burns up to 50 calories a day and so the extra 100 calories you're burning a day from you're 2% muscle gain, is completely negated by your 500 calorie starbucks drink.

So lets say you're taking in 200 more calories now than you're burning from eating all this shit. After 2 months that can be 3.5 lbs of fat, plus the 2.5 lbs from muscle. You have a very freaked out young girl on a scale up to 136 from 130 before she did any resistance training.

Of course these are all generalizations, I'm tired, and have no idea what I'm talking about...

Agreed.

I guess I should edit my previous statement, and say that it's extremely difficult to put on healthy weight and get big. Anyone can eat in excess and gain muscle, but will they look good... probably not. It's extremely hard to eat clean and see those types of results, though. And anyways, it depends what your definition of "big" is.

[adri41]

You mean for women, LA? I weight train regularly, personally. I don't do it excessively or go for high weight, so I'm not concerned about bulking up. Plus, I'm female, and obviously don't have the inherent ability to build muscle like that.

[LA_Showtime]

You don't have to cycle creatine...

Most of the myths surrounding both cycling it and it destroying your kidneys was disproved a few years ago. It's all a bunch of faux science. Creatine is good stuff.

Yeah, I know. I think most people don't nowadays. Unfortunately, I am in college. I have no money; thus, I cycle. :lol

[LA_Showtime]

You mean for women, LA? I weight train regularly, personally. I don't do it excessively or go for high weight, so I'm not concerned about bulking up. Plus, I'm female, and obviously don't have the inherent ability to build muscle like that.

Yeah. Cool, good to me. Most chicks I know won't go within 10 feet of the weight machines/dumbbells/etc.

[OKCThunderUP]

Yeah, I know. I think most people don't nowadays. Unfortunately, I am in college. I have no money; thus, I cycle. :lol

Haha, heard that. I've gained 30 lbs in muscle pass these past two years but I've stalled lately because I ran out of money to buy enough food to gain any more weight. Maintaining a 4500 calorie diet is a huge strain on the college student wallet. :(

[LA_Showtime]

You don't have to cycle creatine...

Most of the myths surrounding both cycling it and it destroying your kidneys was disproved a few years ago. It's all a bunch of faux science. Creatine is good stuff.

Do you know any creatines that don't cause you to bloat up? I'm currently taking Assault MP.

[LA_Showtime]

Haha, heard that. I've gained 30 lbs in muscle pass these past two years but I've stalled lately because I ran out of money to buy enough food to gain any more weight. Maintaining a 4500 calorie diet is a huge strain on the college student wallet. :(

Is your goal size? I'd like to add 10 or 15 pounds of muscle, but I don't want the extra body fat. I've looked into bulking/cutting, but I'd rather not go that route.

[adri41]

Well I get that (women not weight training), even though I do it a couple of times a week I focus WAY more on cardio. Obviously not going for bulk, haha.

[OKCThunderUP]

Do you know any creatines that don't cause you to bloat up? I'm currently taking Assault MP.

I don't know really. When I took creatine it was ON Creatine and never got bloated on it.


Is your goal size? I'd like to add 10 or 15 pounds of muscle, but I don't want the extra body fat. I've looked into bulking/cutting, but I'd rather not go that route.

I started at 135 lbs, currently sitting in the 160s. I'd like to get to 175 but it's not easy, haha.

[LA_Showtime]

Well I get that (women not weight training), even though I do it a couple of times a week I focus WAY more on cardio. Obviously not going for bulk, haha.

I, based on a select few experiences, and comments from ex-girlfriends, clearly do not get/understand women.

[LA_Showtime]

I don't know really. When I took creatine it was ON Creatine and never got bloated on it.



I started at 135 lbs, currently sitting in the 160s. I'd like to get to 175 but it's not easy, haha.

Cool. Oh, and do you know any creatine that doesn't taste like donkey shit? They stuff I'm downing now is just disgusting.

[OKCThunderUP]

Cool. Oh, and do you know any creatine that doesn't taste like donkey shit? They stuff I'm downing now is just disgusting.

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=firefox-a&rls=org.*******:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&q=ON+creatine&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=2671627568442650923&sa=X&ei=SCzKTYCuHs6Xtwero6X5Bw&ved=0CGUQ8wIwAw#

No taste. I usually mixed it with apple juice.

[LA_Showtime]

http://www.google.com/products/catalog?client=firefox-a&rls=org.*******:en-US:official&channel=s&hl=en&q=ON+creatine&um=1&ie=UTF-8&cid=2671627568442650923&sa=X&ei=SCzKTYCuHs6Xtwero6X5Bw&ved=0CGUQ8wIwAw#

No taste. I usually mixed it with apple juice.

+1

[lilgodfather1]

You have to mix your creatine with juice guys. Don't get that shity "flavoured" creatine that you just put it with water and it tastes like acidic fruit punch haha. You guys if you can afford it can take some anabolic pills that basically are legal stereroids.

[LA_Showtime]

You have to mix your creatine with juice guys. Don't get that shity "flavoured" creatine that you just put it with water and it tastes like acidic fruit punch haha. You guys if you can afford it can take some anabolic pills that basically are legal stereroids.

Yeah, but don't they come with the same side effects as steroids?

[OKCThunderUP]

Yeah, but don't they come with the same side effects as steroids?

I think he's referring to prohormones and yeah, they do. You could even make the case the side effects are worse. Prohormones have to pass through the liver. If you don't take the necessary precaution (liver support supplements) you could do some serious damage to your liver.

[lilgodfather1]

Yeah, but don't they come with the same side effects as steroids?
I actually have no idea. I have only ever taken creatine. You would have to do some research on them to find that out. I know some guys who take them from the gym and they haven't had any side effects yet, and one guy I know has been taking them for over a year. But it may be more of a case to case basis I have no idea tbh.

[JustinJDW]

Look at the jaw fellas. Human Growth Hormones all the way.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CYVwni9ihP0/TVPXkaa2aVI/AAAAAAAAAEc/GboZ99tPfA4/s1600/dwayne-wade.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_MZn7xZUTLUo/TGDEARA1QXI/AAAAAAAAAWM/cB3DK5nBO4Q/s1600/Dwyane%2BWade.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/04av5ceaQo9ym/340x.jpg

http://rcrawford79.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/mccain.jpg

But yeah, stay away from that shit guys. Not worth it for the side effects, not worth it at all. :facepalm

[LA_Showtime]

Shiiit. Haha I've sorta got used to Wade's "new look." I remember being shocked when I saw him for the first time, though.

[JustinJDW]

http://itech.dickinson.edu/chemistry/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/side-effects.jpg

**** all of that shit man. The biggest thing for me is the stunted growth, dick shrinkage and major acne. Why would you even get near this shit man. :facepalm

[KOLBCTEW]

Look at the jaw fellas. Human Growth Hormones all the way.

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-CYVwni9ihP0/TVPXkaa2aVI/AAAAAAAAAEc/GboZ99tPfA4/s1600/dwayne-wade.jpg

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_MZn7xZUTLUo/TGDEARA1QXI/AAAAAAAAAWM/cB3DK5nBO4Q/s1600/Dwyane%2BWade.jpg

http://cache.daylife.com/imageserve/04av5ceaQo9ym/340x.jpg

http://rcrawford79.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/mccain.jpg

But yeah, stay away from that shit guys. Not worth it for the side effects, not worth it at all. :facepalmHe's had that type of jaw since he was a child
http://www.sportable.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/wade-kid.jpg
I'm guessing he started REAL early...

[OKCThunderUP]

**** all of that shit man. The biggest thing for me is the stunted growth, dick shrinkage and major acne. Why would you even get near this shit man. :facepalm

The acne and ball shrinkage are both temporary. When you come off steroids, your balls return to normal size and acne goes away.

Stunted growth only matters for teenagers.

[LA_Showtime]

He's had that type of jaw since he was a child
http://www.sportable.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/wade-kid.jpg
I'm guessing he started REAL early...

Made me lol:oldlol:

[JustinJDW]

The acne and ball shrinkage are both temporary. When you come off steroids, your balls return to normal size and acne goes away.Those two things really aren't worth it in my opinion. Maybe because I like my clear ass skin and 8-inch dick. And I ain't joking either.

:pimp:

[lefthook00]

Jaw/head growth is not a good way to see if someone has been using hgh. Noticeable head/jaw growth comes from SEVERE gh abuse, pro bodybuilder style. You're more likely to notice their sausage fingers before you notice head growth. A good way to tell if someone is on gh is skin thickness and skin texture/color. Much harder to tell on a black person though.

Taking gh alone without steroids will not get you that big, if at all. It will allow you to eat anything you want, and I mean anything at any amount, and still become lean as f*ck and keep all of your muscle mass, or increase muscle mass a little bit. It is when you combine gh with roids that you can really gain quality mass, and get the 3 dimensional look to your physique.

I personally believe that MANY MANY MANY NBA players are on low dose gh therapy. I don't think many juice though.

By the way, that picture of harmful steroid side effects is grossly exaggerated. I could make a much worse diagram for eating McDonalds.

[JChurches]

The misinformation in this thread is ridiculous. I haven't heard one factual piece of information posted. Open up a biology text book before you spout off these stupidities.

Love,

MD Candidate, Class of 2014

[GOBB]

Derrick Rose is super fast, jumps ridiculously high. Bad acne. He could be using.

[step_back]

http://www.glogster.com/media/4/23/41/10/23411012.jpg
http://www.1physiotherapy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Dwight-Howard.jpg
http://quizilla.teennick.com/user_images/N/nelly25/1059119795_mes_030626.jpg
http://pisforprops.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/nba_g_kingjames_576.jpg

These two have to be using. The amount of muscle they added from their rookie year is insane.

[GOBB]

http://www.glogster.com/media/4/23/41/10/23411012.jpg
http://www.1physiotherapy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Dwight-Howard.jpg
http://quizilla.teennick.com/user_images/N/nelly25/1059119795_mes_030626.jpg
http://pisforprops.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/nba_g_kingjames_576.jpg

These two have to be using. The amount of muscle they added from their rookie years is insane.

Both have the frames to put on that kind of muscle. It didnt happen overnight. Check the dates of the photos you posted. Dwight Howard 2010. Lebron 2009. Bron was drafted in 2003. Dwight was drafted in 2004. Those are 6 year gaps. To think no one can pack on muscle in a 6yr span is silly. Are you being silly? Seems so.

[DWade06]

Some people are just built that way. I doubt any of the three you mention do 'roids. I do think LeBron and probably Dwight take creatine, though. That would explain the appearance of gaining/losing weight.

And if anyone's taking 'roids, it's Wade. I remember thinking "what the hell" when I saw him bulked up during the Olympic games. But again, it could just be a product of having special genes, world class trainers, etc.

:rolleyes: Maybe Wade just bulked up because he is a world class athlete and has the best trainers in the world. and the Olympics were just after his shoulder and knee injuries so he was probably working his a** off to get 100%. just because you gain muscle doesn't mean your on roids....

[DWade06]

http://www.glogster.com/media/4/23/41/10/23411012.jpg
http://www.1physiotherapy.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/12/Dwight-Howard.jpg
http://quizilla.teennick.com/user_images/N/nelly25/1059119795_mes_030626.jpg
http://pisforprops.files.wordpress.com/2009/03/nba_g_kingjames_576.jpg

These two have to be using. The amount of muscle they added from their rookie year is insane.
your so dumb... those pictures you posted are from their rookie years..remember both came straight from high school. so they are 18 year old kids in the first picture. the second pictures they are grown a*s men

[Glide2keva]

Both have the frames to put on that kind of muscle. It didnt happen overnight. Check the dates of the photos you posted. Dwight Howard 2010. Lebron 2009. Bron was drafted in 2003. Dwight was drafted in 2004. Those are 6 year gaps. To think no one can pack on muscle in a 6yr span is silly. Are you being silly? Seems so.
This.

[DWade06]

why don't you guys actually give some factual information instead of just posting before and after pictures of them when they were 18 years old and then 25.? Breaking News, world class athletes with some of the bests trainers in the world can gain muscle in 6 years. It doesn't mean they are on roids...

[blablabla]

look at wades jaw than you have the answer

[GOBB]

look at wades jaw than you have the answer

Its that simple huh.

I think you are a certified retard. Not just as an insult but you offline are literally a retard. How do i know? Look at your username. The end.

[blablabla]

Its that simple huh.

I think you are a certified retard. Not just as an insult but you offline are literally a retard. How do i know? Look at your username. The end.

you really think i'm serious

[step_back]

your so dumb... those pictures you posted are from their rookie years..remember both came straight from high school. so they are 18 year old kids in the first picture. the second pictures they are grown a*s men

Both packed on at least 30lbs worth of muscle, I posted pictures to give you guys an idea of how different they look physique wise. On their tall frames with the huge amount of cardio they do packing on that size and keeping it means they would have to eat literally thousands and thousands of calories each day.

Not to mention the recovery time needed to keep that mass during an 82 game season, and that's just the NBA not international play that they both participate in.

While it's not impossible by any means that is a huge amount of added mass for a sport that isn't rooted in body building.

P.S Gobb I know a load more about strength training then you do. I'm ACSM qualified. But what ever, I'm sure a mail man knows best :D

[GOBB]

you really think i'm serious

No, I really think you're a retard.

[GOBB]

P.S Gobb I know a load more about strength training then you do. I'm ACSM qualified. But what ever, I'm sure a mail man knows best :D

Anyone certified and knowledgable wouldnt run to google.com to grab before and after photos to make a case. But yea, let us all bow down and conceede to you and your qualifications. How could we ever challenge photos? :rolleyes:

[mhg88]

Both packed on at least 30lbs worth of muscle, I posted pictures to give you guys an idea of how different they look physique wise. On their tall frames with the huge amount of cardio they do packing on that size and keeping it means they would have to eat literally thousands and thousands of calories each day.

Not to mention the recovery time needed to keep that mass during an 82 game season, and that's just the NBA not international play that they both participate in.

While it's not impossible by any means that is a huge amount of added mass for a sport that isn't rooted in body building.

P.S Gobb I know a load more about strength training then you do. I'm ACSM qualified. But what ever, I'm sure a mail man knows best :D

"I'm ACSM qualified"

:facepalm

Literally anyone can be "qualified" and still know f*ck all about training, let alone nutrition. You can take classes online for a few weeks and suddenly you're an expert. I've seen a lot of "qualified" kids with some of the phaggiest skinny bodies around. From about 18-25 your natural testosterone production is at its peak... work hard with the best trainers and nutritionists during this time and you will see better progress than at any other point in life. You ever heard of mass gaining shakes? Those "thousands of calories" can be taken down glasses at a time. It's really not impossible

[step_back]

Anyone certified and knowledgable wouldnt run to google.com to grab before and after photos to make a case. But yea, let us all bow down and conceede to you and your qualifications. How could we ever challenge photos? :rolleyes:

Did you not read anything I typed? I posted those pictures to show you the difference in size gained. You really think I'd just decide to make my mind up on the spot there and then? I think you might be taking this a little too seriously GOBB. Try opening up a window in your basement, the lack of oxygen has made you salty :D

[bingo123]

Imagine if they stopped using PED's. The all-star game would be on the level of a WNBA game full of lethargic players shooting jumpers the whole night.

LOL at this guy. I guess you are one of those ppl who thinks that if someone took some roids that will increase their abiltlies for 50%.
Everybody in NBA or NFL uses some kind of roids at some point in their careers. If not to increase their physical abilities, to recover faster from injuries. You really think its natural to roll your ankle all the way and play after two days like nothing happened? We see it all the time.

[step_back]

"I'm ACSM qualified"

:facepalm

Literally anyone can be "qualified" and still know f*ck all about training, let alone nutrition. You can take classes online for a few weeks and suddenly you're an expert. I've seen a lot of "qualified" kids with some of the phaggiest skinny bodies around. From about 18-25 your natural testosterone production is at its peak... work hard with the best trainers and nutritionists during this time and you will see better progress than at any other point in life. You ever heard of mass gaining shakes? Those "thousands of calories" can be taken down glasses at a time. It's really not impossible

You're right there a plently of cowboy courses out there. I spent years studying at college. REPS registered and certified. I know all about supplements and nutrition. If we had a search function I could send you to the off the court lounge where I have posted in the fitness threads advice and tips to get bigger and stronger. But then again it wouldn't do any good Ish is too full of people who think they are experts anyway.....like yourself.:cheers:

Just joking lol

[jlip]

What's so interesting about always looking at the players' physical growth as supposed evidence for PED's is that if we use MLB as an example, it appears that most of the players who actually were found taking these drugs were not particularly that huge. Also it was primarily average performing players who were found guilty. It's just the Bonds, McGuire's, Sosa's, and Ramirez's of the world that are stars and receive the attention for it.

The same thing with the NBA. I would imagine that if PEDs is a problem, then its probably a significantly higher % of non stars than stars on these substances.

[DWade06]

Both packed on at least 30lbs worth of muscle, I posted pictures to give you guys an idea of how different they look physique wise. On their tall frames with the huge amount of cardio they do packing on that size and keeping it means they would have to eat literally thousands and thousands of calories each day.

Not to mention the recovery time needed to keep that mass during an 82 game season, and that's just the NBA not international play that they both participate in.

While it's not impossible by any means that is a huge amount of added mass for a sport that isn't rooted in body building.

P.S Gobb I know a load more about strength training then you do. I'm ACSM qualified. But what ever, I'm sure a mail man knows best :D
:rolleyes: you have absolutely no evidence to back up your claims of them using PEDS. You posted pictures of them when they were 18 years old. They were KIDS then. They are in their primes now and grew into their frame.

[DWade06]

You're right there a plently of cowboy courses out there. I spent years studying at college. REPS registered and certified. I know all about supplements and nutrition. If we had a search function I could send you to the off the court lounge where I have posted in the fitness threads advice and tips to get bigger and stronger. But then again it wouldn't do any good Ish is too full of people who think they are experts anyway.....like yourself.:cheers:

Just joking lol

congrats doctor. but were is your evidence. you claim to have all of this vast knowledge of the subject but all you did was post a picture of an 18 year old Lebron James

[GOBB]

What you typed wasnt informative at all. Dwight Howard and Lebron James are gym rats. To think they lack a work ethic is amusing. To think NBA franchises which hires professional in all fields are on the payroll for nothing is amusing. To think Dwight nor Lebron havent taken advantage of state of the arm equipment and "experts" at their fingertips is amusing. Especially over a 6yr span from the 18yr old photos to 6yrs later. To think neither has a diet regime they have maintained and stuck with is amusing. To think maybe these two arent genetic freaks is amusing.

http://frillr.com/files/images/lebron%20james.jpg

A photo of Bron relaxed in his lockeroom. OMG, he is definately using. Or is he?

Hey expert step back for a second and tell me your thoughts of this picture. :rolleyes:

Obviously the photo isnt up to date and thats not the point. The point is to show the gradual process in which Bron has added to his frame.

Do either of us know if they are using, have used? No. But for either side to pretend they have better info, knowledge of the other is amusing in itself. Innocent until proven guilty but somehow we can prove guilty by pix and oh yea excuse me didnt want to leave our your credentials.

[mhg88]

You're right there a plently of cowboy courses out there. I spent years studying at college. REPS registered and certified. I know all about supplements and nutrition. If we had a search function I could send you to the off the court lounge where I have posted in the fitness threads advice and tips to get bigger and stronger. But then again it wouldn't do any good Ish is too full of people who think they are experts anyway.....like yourself.:cheers:

Just joking lol

With your knowledge and experience you should know that what they have achieved can be done without steroids. Accusations of steroid use would only be credible from the standpoint of work ethic, rather than simply the physical improvements, ie. do lebron and dwight have the dedication to their training and nutrition to do it the hard way. I've personally made a bigger improvement to my physique naturally than lebron... and in a similar time frame. My life involves significantly less cardio, but offsetting with extra shakes is really all that would be needed to make the same gains, plus these guys are genetic freaks to begin with

[GOBB]

http://magazine.stack.com/Content/Site012/Articles/09_01_2008/5717DwightHowar_00000007286.jpg

http://www.weallscheme.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/16430193.jpg

Washed down with roids.

[pmj]

Why do people think if you use roids you must be huge? How big you get is ENTIRELY dependent on your diet, even on roids.

No picture evidence will be conclusive, only blood tests.

- Increased Recovery Abilities: The most apt example revolves around training/exercise. The act of training is not when muscle is built but rather torn down; it is through the recovery process in-which muscle tissue is built. Testosterone will increase the rate of recovery, improve the efficiency of recovery in-turn leading to a more efficient and capable physique.
- Stronger Anti-Catabolic Protection: some hormones have a negative effect on muscle tissue and can promote body fat; most notable is the hormone cortisol. Testosterone can aid in blocking and reducing this negative hormone reaction ensuring your muscle tissue is protected and body fat is not accumulated.
- Increase Red Blood Cell Count: Testosterone can greatly increase your endurance; the higher the endurance will result in the ability to do more work, i.e. train. By this increase in red blood cells we are able to increase the amount of oxygen entering the blood which increases working capabilities and can lead to greater muscle tissue efficiency.
- Increased Protein Efficiency: By supplementing with testosterone we increase protein synthesis, thereby increasing the level and rate in-which we build muscle tissue or protect it in a calorie restricted diet. Further, we are able to maintain a higher level of protein storage in-part due to an increase in nitrogen production due to higher levels of testosterone.

Tons of athletes take steroids or other PEDs and DONT GET BIGGER. That's not always the point. You CAN take them to get bigger, but you can also take them for drastically increased recovery, endurance, to not LOSE muscle when doing large amounts of cardio, etc.

[Crystallas]

Wade is the only player that I have heard multiple sources point to for using HGH, other than that, it's speculation.

[mhg88]

Washed down with roids.

:oldlol: :applause:

[lilgregoden]

http://magazine.stack.com/Content/Site012/Articles/09_01_2008/5717DwightHowar_00000007286.jpg

http://www.weallscheme.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/16430193.jpg

Washed down with roids.

Where did you get the second picture from? That is a ton of food

[step_back]

Wow a lot of sensitive posters in here. Amazing how easy it is to get people on here to lose their cool:lol It's like I personally attacked you guys. :wtf:

[Samurai Swoosh]

Rose takes force factor though ..

[Funnyfuka]

steroids are not only used to add muscle mass but for endurance .


how do you think these guys spend an hour running and colliding with each others at their height and weight without being on PED?

I think the use of HGH is the most widespread. Helps a lot quicker recuperation / repair of cells in the body.

They would be a lot slower and less explosive without using steroids, they d be exhausted after one month and couldnt stay on the court for more than 20 minutes. People wouldnt watch the nba...

Nowadays they all have profesional personnal trainers and most lift weights daily -guys like brown, fisher, howard, wade, allen-. Some are just more into this part of training than others. Some train during season but stop once it's finished.

[DCL]

in the past, i always said steroids got so little effect on basketball. but i was mostly referring to guys like kg or ai, who were skinny ass MVP toothpicks. basketball is not a 100m sprint race. it's about putting the ball in the damn bucket.

but then guys like dwight howard came along, and i kinda changed my mind.

but either way, i don't really care because i don't have to guard them.

[abuC]

http://magazine.stack.com/Content/Site012/Articles/09_01_2008/5717DwightHowar_00000007286.jpg

Eh, that's only 225lbs, which isn't much.

[mhg88]

Wow a lot of sensitive posters in here. Amazing how easy it is to get people on here to lose their cool:lol It's like I personally attacked you guys. :wtf:

Nobody is being sensitive; sensible would be the correct term.


They would be a lot slower and less explosive without using steroids, they d be exhausted after one month and couldnt stay on the court for more than 20 minutes. People wouldnt watch the nba...

True that, brotha. Just look at guys like Dr. J, David Thompson, Nique and MJ. They must have been the pioneers of steroids to be able to run and jump like that without dropping dead after 20 minutes :rolleyes:

[Funnyfuka]

Nobody is being sensitive; sensible would be the correct term.



True that, brotha. Just look at guys like Dr. J, David Thompson, Nique and MJ. They must have been the pioneers of steroids to be able to run and jump like that without dropping dead after 20 minutes :rolleyes:
they were on, genius.

[mhg88]

Eh, that's only 225lbs, which isn't much.

I'd bet you probably don't bench 225lbs and even if you do, what is your point? Is there a caption on the photo saying "Dwight Howard attempts lifetime benchpress PR"? There's a thing called warming up... it's part of working out.

[mhg88]

they were on, genius.

No doubt bro. Wilt, too. Those dirty bastards.

[GOBB]

Eh, that's only 225lbs, which isn't much.

The most irrelevant reply goes to...you

[abuC]

I'd bet you probably don't bench 225lbs and even if you do, what is your point? Is there a caption on the photo saying "Dwight Howard attempts lifetime benchpress PR"? There's a thing called warming up... it's part of working out.
:rolleyes:

You'd lose money if you made that bet, and my point is he's probably not on roids, there are plenty of people built like him without being on gear. The obvious difference between him and normal gym heads is he's 6"11.

[GOBB]

Wow a lot of sensitive posters in here. Amazing how easy it is to get people on here to lose their cool:lol It's like I personally attacked you guys. :wtf:

So people say posting before and after photos (6 years apart at that) isnt a good argument to say "they are using" = sensitive? Sensitive is when people say that argument is rather weak then replying "I'm certified in x,y,z. I know more than you.". Thats someone being sensitive.

[LA_Showtime]

That picture of LeBron says "creatine" all over it. He should be a spokesperson for them.

[Mr Clutch Melo]

That picture of LeBron says "creatine" all over it. He should be a spokesperson for them.


Lol...like its impossible to bulk up over a 6 year period :rolleyes:

[LA_Showtime]

Lol...like its impossible to bulk up over a 6 year period :rolleyes:

:facepalm Creatine isn't a steroid or HGH, moron. :oldlol: It's perfectly legal. I'm taking creatine right now.

[LA_Showtime]

:facepalm Creatine isn't a steroid or HGH, moron. :oldlol: It's perfectly legal. I'm taking creatine right now.

Please respond, Mr. Clutch. :oldlol:

[LBJ 23]

1. Genetics
2. Nutrition
3. Workout

And yes, over 6 years it's completely possible to gain as much muscle as Howard and Bron did without steroids.

[DWade06]

That picture of LeBron says "creatine" all over it. He should be a spokesperson for them.
yea, cuz it's impossible to gain 25-30 pounds in 6 years when you are a genetic of freak athlete and have world class trainers and probably have diets tailor made for you... even IF he took creatine it is completely legal so...

[JustinJDW]

Surprised at how many people dismissed what I said about D-Wade's jaw. I mean its already obvious that he is using due to the many reports about to already, but I thought I'd point out his jaw and people looked at me like I was ****ing crazy. Your jaw doesn't blow up like a ****ing tumor just because you work out idiots, but using HGH for at least five years I'm sure, sure as hell can.

I guess you guys think Barry Bonds head just naturally blew up to the size of a planet too huh? :rolleyes:

And Lebron and Dwight have probably took steroids too, but them gaining mass since they were freaking 18 years old isn't evidence of that. :oldlol:

[The Judge]

I don't think he understood the question.

Let's not forget that this guy dodges questions more than he dodges a good FG%. Didn't he have someone else take his SAT's for him?

Derrick Rose is not a smart man.

[mhg88]

Surprised at how many people dismissed what I said about D-Wade's jaw. I mean its already obvious that he is using due to the many reports about to already, but I thought I'd point out his jaw and people looked at me like I was ****ing crazy. Your jaw doesn't blow up like a ****ing tumor just because you work out idiots, but using HGH for at least five years I'm sure, sure as hell can.

I guess you guys think Barry Bonds head just naturally blew up to the size of a planet too huh? :rolleyes:

And Lebron and Dwight have probably took steroids too, but them gaining mass since they were freaking 18 years old isn't evidence of that. :oldlol:

Look at this picture and then consider that a man's jaw gets more pronounced with puberty, aging:

http://www.sportable.com/wp-content/uploads/2006/11/wade-kid.jpg

Nobody responded because you're an idiot.

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Please respond, Mr. Clutch. :oldlol:

What? I just said its possible to bulk up like that without using creatine..( I'll be honest, i thougt it was illegal)

[GOBB]

I don't think he understood the question.

Let's not forget that this guy dodges questions more than he dodges a good FG%. Didn't he have someone else take his SAT's for him?

Derrick Rose is not a smart man.

Who knows if Derrick Rose is smart. I wouldnt judge a friggin SAT test/score on that.

To me thats not smart.

[DWade06]

Surprised at how many people dismissed what I said about D-Wade's jaw. I mean its already obvious that he is using due to the many reports about to already, but I thought I'd point out his jaw and people looked at me like I was ****ing crazy. Your jaw doesn't blow up like a ****ing tumor just because you work out idiots, but using HGH for at least five years I'm sure, sure as hell can.

I guess you guys think Barry Bonds head just naturally blew up to the size of a planet too huh? :rolleyes:

And Lebron and Dwight have probably took steroids too, but them gaining mass since they were freaking 18 years old isn't evidence of that. :oldlol:
and the picture you showed of Wade's face was when he was 20. you fill out when you age and are done with puberty.

[mhg88]

and the picture you showed of Wade's face was when he was 20. you fill out when you age and are done with puberty.

The "before" picture shows Wade from the side and clean shaven. In the "after", he's rocking a chin strap and clenching his jaw. A perfectly objective comparison.

[Jon_Koncak]

i don't know if it's an indication of anyhtin but Wade's face has definitely expanded.forget the child pic,just compare his face nowdays with back at his rookie season or at marquetee
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/bulls/wade2_030529.jpg
http://hawknest.sbac.edu/~acrawford/dwyane_wade.jpg

[DWade06]

Surprised at how many people dismissed what I said about D-Wade's jaw. I mean its already obvious that he is using due to the many reports about to already, but I thought I'd point out his jaw and people looked at me like I was ****ing crazy. Your jaw doesn't blow up like a ****ing tumor just because you work out idiots, but using HGH for at least five years I'm sure, sure as hell can.

I guess you guys think Barry Bonds head just naturally blew up to the size of a planet too huh? :rolleyes:

And Lebron and Dwight have probably took steroids too, but them gaining mass since they were freaking 18 years old isn't evidence of that. :oldlol:
I'm curious to see these "may reports" of Dwyane Wade using Roids. the only thing I find was an allegation by his former disgruntled business partner who was obviously just mad because a restaurant that he was doing with Wade didn't work out. He was just trying to sabotage his reputation. the allegation holds no water and has no facts to base it what so ever

[DWade06]

i don't know if it's an indication of anyhtin but Wade's face has definitely expanded.forget the child pic,just compare his face nowdays with back at his rookie season or at marquetee
http://i.cdn.turner.com/nba/nba/media/bulls/wade2_030529.jpg
http://hawknest.sbac.edu/~acrawford/dwyane_wade.jpg
yes, you tend to change through puberty/aging.... the first picture you showed was when he was 20 years old. he's no 29. does your face /jaw line look the same as it did 9 years ago?

[mhg88]

i don't know if it's an indication of anyhtin but Wade's face has definitely expanded.forget the child pic,just compare his face nowdays with back at his rookie season or at marquetee


First pic: before gaining a lot of weight and mouth is open which makes jaw/face look narrower

Second pic: after gaining weight and mouth closed, jaw at its widest, also camera angle from below

[The Judge]

Who knows if Derrick Rose is smart. I wouldnt judge a friggin SAT test/score on that.

To me thats not smart.

No, you can't judge an SAT score on whether someone is smart, since the score you need to pass is extremely low, but the fact that he couldn't even hit that low score and had to have someone else take the test for him proves he's not a smart man.

You can tell he's a complete dumbass just by watching any interview with him. It doesn't surprise me that he didn't understand the question being asked.

[PP34Deuce]

i agree with it probably coming out more in the next decade. If you look at Predraft measurements from 98-2002 compared to 2003-now.... The weight differences in some of the players of same height is crazy.

Carmelo came in at 225...is probably about 240 (not crazy muscular)

Lebron came in at 235, nowadays hes 260-265

[JustinJDW]

Oh come on people, are we seriously going to act like D-Wade jaw hasn't blew up since his rookie season. Lets be honest, most players do use PED's, and Wade sure as hell as before. HGH can make nearly any part of your body blow up, including the jaw, and it looks like that's what happened to D-Wade. I'm not accusing him of anything, I'm just telling you guys what the **** I'm seeing. I mean damn, look at this.

http://www.cheapnbajerseystore.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Dwyane-Wade.jpg

http://www.nba.com/media/heat/waderookieanthology_main.jpg

Now...

http://miamisportsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/dwyane-wade-picture-1.jpg

http://sportspr101.com/files/2010/07/Wade.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_377lIccw3mE/Rh_ccSAnS6I/AAAAAAAAAHI/TnqEeV1gQLU/s320/dwyane-wade-picture-2.jpg


Say what you want, but that someofbitch grew.

[DWade06]

Oh come on people, are we seriously going to act like D-Wade jaw hasn't blew up since his rookie season. Lets be honest, most players do use PED's, and Wade sure as hell as before. HGH can make nearly any part of your body blow up, including the jaw, and it looks like that's what happened to D-Wade. I'm not accusing him of anything, I'm just telling you guys what the **** I'm seeing. I mean damn, look at this.

http://www.cheapnbajerseystore.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/Dwyane-Wade.jpg

http://www.nba.com/media/heat/waderookieanthology_main.jpg

Now...

http://miamisportsblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/12/dwyane-wade-picture-1.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_377lIccw3mE/Rh_ccSAnS6I/AAAAAAAAAHI/TnqEeV1gQLU/s320/dwyane-wade-picture-2.jpg


Say what you want, but that someofbitch grew.
His entire body grew because he got bigger... He was about 195-200 when he came into the league now he's 220-225. not because he's on roids or whatever but because he's a freaking athlete with world class trainers. when you gain 25 pounds obviously your whole body including your jaw or going to get bigger too to stay proportionate

[GOBB]

No, you can't judge an SAT score on whether someone is smart, since the score you need to pass is extremely low, but the fact that he couldn't even hit that low score and had to have someone else take the test for him proves he's not a smart man.

A kid not making a smart decision? Totally uncommon.

(sarcasm)

Lets not act like we at Rose age were making home run decisions.


You can tell he's a complete dumbass just by watching any interview with him. It doesn't surprise me that he didn't understand the question being asked.

When I see Rose in interviews I see a person uncomfortable with public speaking. A person who still has somewhat of a fear, nervousness about them in that type of setting. A person unsure of what he wants to say, how to respond. He may improve with that over time. I dont see a dumbass.

If I saw it that way then that lets me know I'm reaching for something to knock the guy for because he is great at playing basketball.

[DWade06]

A kid not making a smart decision? Totally uncommon.

(sarcasm)

Lets not act like we at Rose age were making home run decisions.



When I see Rose in interviews I see a person uncomfortable with public speaking. A person who still has somewhat of a fear, nervousness about them in that type of setting. A person unsure of what he wants to say, how to respond. He may improve with that over time. I dont see a dumbass.

If I saw it that way then that lets me know I'm reaching for something to knock the guy for because he is great at playing basketball.
I agree, Rose isn't dumb. He legit seems scared/nervous to be in front of a camera. which is kind of weird.

[mhg88]

Oh come on people, are we seriously going to act like D-Wade jaw hasn't blew up since his rookie season. Lets be honest, most players do use PED's, and Wade sure as hell as before. HGH can make nearly any part of your body blow up, including the jaw, and it looks like that's what happened to D-Wade. I'm not accusing him of anything, I'm just telling you guys what the **** I'm seeing. I mean damn, look at this.

Yea totally bro, these photos are crazy. Better get Dr. Monk on the case. If you're gonna use photos at least post some matching angles. Again, he gained a lot of weight. Your face changes when this happens. I look totally different with added weight since I was 18 and my bodyfat hasn't even gone up more than about 2%. Neck muscles grow making the appearance of a wider jaw among other factors. There's no evidence that Wade did HGH and no reason he would have

[JustinJDW]

Derrick Rose has always appeared kind of slow, but then again, so did Tim Duncan. It wasn't until people say Timmy's interviews when they realized he was actually a very smart man, and he just has a quite personality.

On the contrary, D-Rose sometimes sounds like he doesn't know more than eight words. :confusedshrug:

[PP34Deuce]

I rmemeber when Kobe bulked up big time in 2003 season. He wa slike 220-225. He was faster,powerful,was jumping higher...Had crazy poster dunks on people.

He shot crappy from jumper,but he was like Wade now going to the basket.

Then he slimmed down to 205-210,and his jumper came back,couldnt finish as crazy, but got quicked laterally.

Anyone think Kobe did them during that time.

[LA_Showtime]

yea, cuz it's impossible to gain 25-30 pounds in 6 years when you are a genetic of freak athlete and have world class trainers and probably have diets tailor made for you... even IF he took creatine it is completely legal so...

Are you stupid? I said it was legal in my next post. I'm on it right now.:lol

[STATUTORY]

His entire body grew because he got bigger... He was about 195-200 when he came into the league now he's 220-225. not because he's on roids or whatever but because he's a freaking athlete with world class trainers. when you gain 25 pounds obviously your whole body including your jaw or going to get bigger too to stay proportionate

just cause you put on muscle on your body doesn't mean you will gain jaw muscle or have your jaw bone expand.

[mhg88]

I rmemeber when Kobe bulked up big time in 2003 season. He wa slike 220-225. He was faster,powerful,was jumping higher...Had crazy poster dunks on people.

He shot crappy from jumper,but he was like Wade now going to the basket.

Then he slimmed down to 205-210,and his jumper came back,couldnt finish as crazy, but got quicked laterally.

Anyone think Kobe did them during that time.

Yea bro, Kobe's jawline even looks different and he doesn't have the afro anymore

[mhg88]

just cause you put on muscle on your body doesn't mean you will gain jaw muscle or have your jaw bone expand.

Tru that, brotha. I think Kobe did HGH, just look at this:

http://serioussportsnewsnetwork.com/uploaded_images/kobe_wolf-758541.jpg

and then this:

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2003/07/08/image562132x.jpg

:wtf: :eek:

[STATUTORY]

Tru that, brotha. I think Kobe did HGH, just look at this:

http://serioussportsnewsnetwork.com/uploaded_images/kobe_wolf-758541.jpg

and then this:

http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2003/07/08/image562132x.jpg

:wtf: :eek:

:facepalm if you think that change is at all comparable to what happned with Dwayne's face you are crazy.

I'm not even suggesting Wade's doing anything. I'm just saying his jaw got big in a way very few players do. Maybe it's just genetics

[LA_Showtime]

I rmemeber when Kobe bulked up big time in 2003 season. He wa slike 220-225. He was faster,powerful,was jumping higher...Had crazy poster dunks on people.

He shot crappy from jumper,but he was like Wade now going to the basket.

Then he slimmed down to 205-210,and his jumper came back,couldnt finish as crazy, but got quicked laterally.

Anyone think Kobe did them during that time.

I suppose it's possible, but his body also broke down with the extra weight and he eventually chose to slim down again.

[GOBB]

I read an article in sports illustrated that Lakers lockrooms had barrels of creatine. This was during Lakers start of winning NBA titles. I doubt Kobe did anything illegal. He is a gym rat so I'm sure he put in the work with bulking up. But who is to say he didnt take a shortcut? Innocent until proven guilty is what I go by. Otherwise I just falsely accuse every athlete of cheating.

[ace23]

How would one determine what a PED is?

Caffeine is a stimulant and gives one a advantage energy-wise. Should the NBA ban it?

[LA_Showtime]

I read an article in sports illustrated that Lakers lockrooms had barrels of creatine. This was during Lakers start of winning NBA titles. I doubt Kobe did anything illegal. He is a gym rat so I'm sure he put in the work with bulking up. But who is to say he didnt take a shortcut? Innocent until proven guilty is what I go by. Otherwise I just falsely accuse every athlete of cheating.

I think any self respecting athlete takes creatine. That's good shit, period.

[ImmortalD24]

*cough* Wade *cough*


If they're not checking this... I am seriously on the fence of wanting Kobe to do it also. It would help him recover from those nagging injuries, train harder in practice and weight room. Nothing but a gain.

But if he's caught.. it would definitely hurt.

[The_Yearning]

yes, you tend to change through puberty/aging.... the first picture you showed was when he was 20 years old. he's no 29. does your face /jaw line look the same as it did 9 years ago?

20 years old my ass Wade entered the league at age 22.

[The_Yearning]

Wade is definitely using that shit. Ever since he broke his shoulder.

[Euroleague]

Anyone that does not realize the NBA players are almost all on PEDs is literally retarded, plain and simple. Once again, NBA players are given IMMUNITY from failing drugs tests at the Olympics or the FIBA tournaments.

Why the hell is that necessary unless they are doping? How many damn times does this have to be explained before people wake the hell up?

[Javat_90]

Anyone that does not realize the NBA players are almost all on PEDs is literally retarded, plain and simple. Once again, NBA players are given IMMUNITY from failing drugs tests at the Olympics or the FIBA tournaments.

Why the hell is that necessary unless they are doping? How many damn times does this have to be explained before people wake the hell up?

We get it already, you annoying freak.

You hate everything NBA/USA related. The ironic thing is, you have like 2 or 3 accounts posting on a...wait for it...american NBA related forum.

You have mental issues.

[Euroleague]

We get it already, you annoying freak.

You hate everything NBA/USA related. The ironic thing is, you have like 2 or 3 accounts posting on a...wait for it...american NBA related forum.

You have mental issues.

It is NOT fair that Team USA is allowed to dope. And to then have Americans be so damn arrogant about how they are "athletically superior" is unbelievable.

Hopefully this will bring the necessary backlash and Team USA's immunity will end. That will make 2008 the last Olympic gold they ever win.