Chess vs Computer Gaming: Which Takes More Intellect?

[RainierBeachPoet]

i do not play computer games but i do have a pretty decent layman's ability in the game of chess.

i had always considered chess the most complicated of board games because of the numerous combinations and use of the imagination to see the various possibilities unfold (or not).

but with the numerous computer games that exist now, maybe there is something that is even MORE complicated and difficult to play.


question: for those who play both, what is more complicated-- chess or computer games (please specify which)-- and takes more intellectual ability to play and flourish in?

[pete's montreux]

What kind of computer game are we talking about here?

[joe]

what computer games are you referring to?

[RainierBeachPoet]

what computer games are you referring to?
What kind of computer game are we talking about here?

i dont know what is out there, you tell me what MIGHT be comparable

i dont doubt that there are some that cannot hold a candle to chess, but there maybe some very challenging games that might be on par

???

[Kungfro]

RTS games maybe? Also I suppose the civilization series is somewhat comparable.

[pete's montreux]

RTS games maybe?

Right, and simulators.

Some hardcore FPS require a lot of thought. Real time battle strategies are used in BF.

I don't know if you can compare that to advanced chess, though.

[falc39]

check out the starcraft/starcraft 2 scene.. some of the pro players are insane

[LA_Showtime]

I was actually really into chess at a young age. I won like 5-6 tournaments and was the #1 ranked player in my state (seriously). It was at age like 11, though, so it wasn't exactly impressive (kinda like the basketball players who are rated ridiculously high at age 10). I stopped playing once I hit middle school, as it's pretty much universally considered a nerdy hobby. I kind of regret, too. I had a friend get a full ride scholarship to Texas to play chess. :lol

[ace23]

The Civilization games require more intellect than chess.

[Lebowsky]

I don't think any video game can come close to the complexity of chess in intellectual terms. When it comes to board games, go is also incredibly complex, despite its very simple rules.

[LA_Showtime]

I don't think any video game can come close to the complexity of chess in intellectual terms. When it comes to board games, go is also incredibly complex, despite its very simple rules.

Chess isn't that complex. There are thousands of openings, with slight variations and what not, but it's not nearly as confusing as other shit.

[Lebowsky]

Chess isn't that complex. There are thousands of openings, with slight variations and what not, but it's not nearly as confusing as other shit.

Complexity doesn't equal confussion. Complexity refers to the enormous amount of different moves and possibilities that can take place in a chess game.

[LA_Showtime]

Complexity doesn't equal confussion. Complexity refers to the enormous amount of different moves and possibilities that can take place in a chess game.

I guess. But most of those moves can be eliminated just by knowing what the hell you're doing. Hell, if you're playing a knowledgeable player you can go 30 some moves without having to think really because it's an opening sequence that's been used a lot.

[joe]

I guess. But most of those moves can be eliminated just by knowing what the hell you're doing. Hell, if you're playing a knowledgeable player you can go 30 some moves without having to think really because it's an opening sequence that's been used a lot.

that's just opening theory though. says nothing of middle or end game.

Besides.. we're discussing what takes more intellect. Knowing the first 30 book lines in a given opening, and all the different possibilities wherein.. takes a lot of intellect. The players who just know the moves without the reasons behind them.. will get eaten up by a true pro

[LA_Showtime]

that's just opening theory though. says nothing of middle or end game.

Besides.. we're discussing what takes more intellect. Knowing the first 30 book lines in a given opening, and all the different possibilities wherein.. takes a lot of intellect. The players who just know the moves without the reasons behind them.. will get eaten up by a true pro

Yup. And that, to me, is why chess is so fun.

[joe]

Yup. And that, to me, is why chess is so fun.

Yeah, people just remembering book lines... I've never encountered it because I've never played at a high level but... that seems to suck the life out of chess. I mean obviously you gotta do what you gotta do to win/improve.. but the tournament scene was probably so much better b4 advanced computers. IMO

[-playmaker-]

video games are far far FAR more compex...there are huge tournies just like chess, and retardedly smart geeky rain men win them...


you can also play chess on your computer (which is extremely simple math and programming in comparison to other games)

Madden football is like a more complex version of chess I think...there are many more factors that come into play when playing someone than chess could offer...

[falc39]

anyone play Go?

supposedly just as complex as chess (maybe more) but people still haven't found a way to code it well for the computer/AI

[Lebowsky]

anyone play Go?

supposedly just as complex as chess (maybe more) but people still haven't found a way to code it well for the computer/AI

I mentioned it in my first post of the thread. I've played it a bit and we studied it in my game theory class.

[LA_Showtime]

Yeah, people just remembering book lines... I've never encountered it because I've never played at a high level but... that seems to suck the life out of chess. I mean obviously you gotta do what you gotta do to win/improve.. but the tournament scene was probably so much better b4 advanced computers. IMO

Chess has always been about remembering lines, or openings. Even at a younger, competitive age, you'll see people playing the Queen's gambit, Sicilian Defense, etc. The difference between the high level players is their understanding of the positional tactics and their ability to adjust, not to mention their knowledge of standard openings. But seriously... competitive chess has ALWAYS included standard openings and what not.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

Is this a serious question? I read somewhere that there are more possibilities in chess than there are atoms in the universe...

How many geniuses play video games?


http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1021587

[sixerfan82]

A chess game would be comparable to a chess VIDEO game..

and they are about the same as they ARE the same?

[RainierBeachPoet]

that's just opening theory though. says nothing of middle or end game.

Besides.. we're discussing what takes more intellect. Knowing the first 30 book lines in a given opening, and all the different possibilities wherein.. takes a lot of intellect. The players who just know the moves without the reasons behind them.. will get eaten up by a true pro

as i am thinking more about these various responses, chess has not only the intellectual aspect, but imagination, emotion and vision too

for example, there are deeper reasons that the kasparov/deep blue series was fascinating: how does the total package of a human's (chess) ability (intellect, imagination, vision, emotion) greater than what a computer can do?

[Stuckey]

computer games, by far imo

those starcraft pros blow my mind, i couldn't even believe korea has tv channels dedicated to computer game tournaments/matches

[shlver]

It's obviously chess intellectually.
Computer games require a larger skillset in my opinion.

[Timmy D for MVP]

RTS games flex your brain muscles.

Games like Portal have problem solving properties.

Some FPS's will immerse you in a world that makes you think like Half-Life or Bioshock.

Myst..... is crazy.

There are a whole lot of options that it's not hard to find a game out there that'll challenge you.

[RainierBeachPoet]

Is this a serious question? I read somewhere that there are more possibilities in chess than there are atoms in the universe...

How many geniuses play video games?


http://www.answerbag.com/q_view/1021587

:cheers:

[N0Skillz]

Chess by far....


Anyone that says otherwise just does not know how complex chess is.

[ballup]

It's obviously chess intellectually.
Computer games require a larger skillset in my opinion.
This.

RTS games give chess the best run for it's money. Games like starcraft require a lot of on the fly thinking, but chess takes more intellect because it is turn based. In chess, you have to not only analyze why your opponent moved each piece, but every possible counter you can make.

[shlver]

computer games, by far imo

those starcraft pros blow my mind, i couldn't even believe korea has tv channels dedicated to computer game tournaments/matches
The beginning metagame for Starcraft is almost identical to chess.

[Timmy D for MVP]

This is such a weird debate.

But again if you mean in general there are games out there that are equal to if not superior to chess.

Because it's chess v. all games ever made up to this point.

But what the game can offer is versatility. Chess is stuck being chess, a game can morph from one field of thought into another.

If I were good with computers, and had the ability to do so I'd invent games. It's such a great medium and as tech gets better there's more and more one will be able to do.

[vapid]

Many computer games offer much more complexity and challenge than chess. You often need to combine many different intellectual and physical abilities (better vision, audio cues, reflexes) to succeed. Computer games also have much higher potential. But you're comparing one game to a whole medium.

[Gifted Mind]

Many computer games offer much more complexity and challenge than chess. You often need to combine many different intellectual and physical abilities (better vision, audio cues, reflexes) to succeed. Computer games also have much higher potential. But you're comparing one game to a whole medium.
Exactly

[Jackass18]

Civilizations? What required so much intellect for it?

[OhNoTimNoSho]

Many computer games offer much more complexity and challenge than chess. You often need to combine many different intellectual and physical abilities (better vision, audio cues, reflexes) to succeed. Computer games also have much higher potential. But you're comparing one game to a whole medium.
Um what? MORE complexity and challenge than chess? You need to combine different intellectual abilities for computer games? Are you serious?


Please describe the video games you are playing...

[-playmaker-]

Um what? MORE complexity and challenge than chess? You need to combine different intellectual abilities for computer games? Are you serious?


Please describe the video games you are playing...
I think Madden is more complex...could easily take more intellect
It is turn based, you base your plays future and past plays...you have to factor in luck percentages as well...gauge matchups with players.

Chess is simplistic compared to it...

And the really amazing Madden players are mind blowing...

[-playmaker-]

Just because YOU mash buttons when you play people online doesn't mean you have to do that...

[LJJ]

Chess is less complicated and versatile, and that automatically means it requires more intellect to win.

I'm surprised how some of you can't see this. (well not at all of you) In games there are many different elements that can give you an advantage, while in chess all advantages are pretty much stripped away and it's purely intellect-based.

[-playmaker-]

Chess is less complicated and versatile, and that automatically means it requires more intellect to win.

I'm surprised how some of you can't see this. (well not at all of you) In games there are many different elements that can give you an advantage, while in chess all advantages are pretty much stripped away and it's purely intellect-based.
you could strip the game controller away from Madden and just let the comp play out your plays and I think it would require just as much intellect

The fact that chess is simple doesn't mean it takes more intellect...if that is the case than checkers or even tic tax toe would require more than chess

[LJJ]

you could strip the game controller away from Madden and just let the comp play out your plays and I think it would require just as much intellect

The fact that chess is simple doesn't mean it takes more intellect...if that is the case than checkers or even tic tax toe would require more than chess

Checkers might be at least just as difficult, I don't really know. Tic tac toe isn't because it doesn't have a true competitive element like chess.

Compared this question to this:

Which is a more pure gauge of one's running speed:
-A 1k run on a track
-A 1k parkour run?

Obviously the track, because it pretty much only requires running. The parkours requires running, balance, agility, use of arms, etcetera.

[joe]

Chess by far....


Anyone that says otherwise just does not know how complex chess is.

pretty much

[vapid]

Chess is less complicated and versatile, and that automatically means it requires more intellect to win.

I'm surprised how some of you can't see this. (well not at all of you) In games there are many different elements that can give you an advantage, while in chess all advantages are pretty much stripped away and it's purely intellect-based.
I think you are just using a different definition for intellect.

[LJJ]

I think you are just using a different definition for intellect.

No matter how broadly you define intellect; most games rely heavily on reflexes, precision movement, visual and audio recognition. Like you mentioned yourself. Not to mention that the level of competition is much less developed and rich.

While chess relies more on analyzing and reasoning and provides a level playing field.

[N0Skillz]

Chess is less complicated and versatile, and that automatically means it requires more intellect to win.

I'm surprised how some of you can't see this. (well not at all of you) In games there are many different elements that can give you an advantage, while in chess all advantages are pretty much stripped away and it's purely intellect-based.


Win Post

Completely Agree

[RainierBeachPoet]

Chess is less complicated and versatile, and that automatically means it requires more intellect to win.

I'm surprised how some of you can't see this. (well not at all of you) In games there are many different elements that can give you an advantage, while in chess all advantages are pretty much stripped away and it's purely intellect-based.

i have only played a couple of times, but as others had mentioned previously, go is in this category of board games too

[-playmaker-]

So chess is the most intellectual game on the planet?

It requires more intellect than anything a computer can offer...even though chess itself on a computer is baby play in the realm of computer games?

Some of you are over thinking this big time...or just ardent familiar with games

[joe]

So chess is the most intellectual game on the planet?

It requires more intellect than anything a computer can offer...even though chess itself on a computer is baby play in the realm of computer games?

Some of you are over thinking this big time...or just ardent familiar with games

what do you mean by that?

[LJJ]

So chess is the most intellectual game on the planet?

It requires more intellect than anything a computer can offer...even though chess itself on a computer is baby play in the realm of computer games?

Some of you are over thinking this big time...or just ardent familiar with games

A chess game is easier to make on a computer than Madden. So in your mind that makes Madden more intellectually challenging?

Honestly primetime, where do I begin? Your lack of reasoning skills is just...astonishing.

A complicated math problem on a piece of paper is infinitely more easy to make than Madden. It's also infinitely more easy to remake as a computer game to Madden. Are you saying that because it's easier to program like that than it is to make Madden; it's less intellectually challenging to play? Even if it's say, a math problem that only 100 people in the world can solve?

Seriously primetime, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart: don't ever have kids!

[shlver]

So chess is the most intellectual game on the planet?

It requires more intellect than anything a computer can offer...even though chess itself on a computer is baby play in the realm of computer games?

Some of you are over thinking this big time...or just ardent familiar with games

intellect: the power or faculty of the mind by which one knows or understands, as distinguished from that by which one feels and that by which one wills
Yes, chess requires a lot more faculties in the intellectual department whereas in computer games, a counter is already set and the metagame are usually just exploits.

[shlver]

A chess game is easier to make on a computer than Madden. So in your mind that makes Madden more intellectually challenging?

Honestly primetime, where do I begin? Your lack of reasoning skills is just...astonishing.

A complicated math problem on a piece of paper is infinitely more easy to make than Madden. It's also infinitely more easy to remake as a computer game to Madden. Are you saying that because it's easier to program like that than it is to make Madden; it's less intellectually challenging to play? Even if it's say, a math problem that only 100 people in the world can solve?

Seriously primetime, and I mean this from the bottom of my heart: don't ever have kids!
The **** is wrong with you? Your analogy sucks and stop insulting people.

[LJJ]

The **** is wrong with you? Your analogy sucks and stop insulting people.

Uhm no? Go back to sesame street forums you little puss.

[shlver]

Uhm no? Go back to sesame street forums you little puss.
You get your point across by using shitty and wrong reasoning and then insulting him. You're an idiot. From a programming standpoint, he does have a point. You're just too stupid to realize it. More factors to crunch requires more intellectual capacity.

[LJJ]

You get your point across by using shitty reasoning and then insulting him. You're an idiot. From a programming standpoint, he does have a point. You're just too stupid to realize it. More factors to crunch requires more intellectual capacity.

No he doesn't have a point. Harder to program does not in any way have a direct relation to being more intellectually challenging.

You are just a little shit with a stick up your ass.

[shlver]

No he doesn't have a point. Harder to program does not in any way have a direct relation to being more intellectually challenging.

You are just a little shit with a stick up your ass.
Wow, you're retarded. "harder to program" means programmers need to account and code for many factors. Crunching data, applying principles to new situations, and to memorize certain situations is intellect. Madden inherently does have a lot of factors you have to take into consideration while playing which does require intellect. Stop thinking shallowly you ****ing dolt.
Does it require more intellect than chess? In my opinion no because most computer games have set counters that are purposefully coded.

[LJJ]

Wow, you're retarded. "harder to program" means programmers need to account and code for many factors. Crunching data, applying principles to new situations, and to memorize certain situations is intellect. Madden inherently does have a lot of factors you have to take into consideration while playing which does require intellect. Stop thinking shallowly you ****ing dolt.
Does it require more intellect than chess? In my opinion no.

So in the end I'm 100% right and you resort to insulting to get your point across too.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2zqx946.jpg

[shlver]

So in the end I'm 100% right and you resort to insulting to get your point across too.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2zqx946.jpg
yes you are right, but your reasoning is total shit.

[LJJ]

You say Madden is harder to program, but not more intellectually challenging than chess. I say the exact same thing. :facepalm

First bashing on someone insulting, then resorting to the exact same tactics. Attacking people for "idiotic reasoning" even tough you share the same opinions and reasoning. :facepalm

Your e-putation is really taking some serious blows here mister pot.

[-playmaker-]

lol...LJJ is one of the most retarded posters here...I am suddenly reminded of how he didn't understand you could believe in god without being religious...

I am confused how I upset hum though...lol, he is so mad for no reason wtf


Madden is more complex imo intellectually because it IS. The guys that win those tourneys are rain men too...it is turn based, requires thought on past and future moves...there are 100 factors that define a player.etc

You don't even need a controller...take the.actual game play out and it still requires more thought just on play calling alone.


Of course I already said all that but LJJ assumed I ment programming...the GAME is more complex than chess

[-playmaker-]

You can put just as much intellect into many computer games if you choose to do so...

To say that chess is more intellectual than anything a computer can offer is silly...players could put just as much thought into the moves they make in first person shooter if they wanted.

[-playmaker-]

And again, a computer can offer EVERY TYPE OF GAME THERE IS that isn't a physical sport...

So if you are saying that chess requires more intellect than anything a comp can offer...you are pretty much saying that chess is the most intellectual game on the planet...

[LJJ]

No I said that when you believe in god, but are not religious then you are not a theist. Because a theist is someone who believes that there is one god who has rules pertaining to how people should behave. Which makes theism decidedly religious in nature.

Nice try though. Next time you lie pick something less obvious.

[Gifted Mind]

Suggesting Madden requires more intellect than Chess is hysterical. But also, suggesting chess requires more intellect than any computer game possible is ludicrous.

In fact, this whole comparison is illogical. As one poster pointed out, you are comparing a game to a whole class or medium.

[LJJ]

Suggesting Madden requires more intellect than Chess is hysterical. But also, suggesting chess requires more intellect than any computer game possible is ludicrous.

No doubt. If you know of any videogames that are more intellectually challenging than chess please post them. That was partially the OP's intention.

[-playmaker-]

Suggesting Madden requires more intellect than Chess is hysterical. But also, suggesting chess requires more intellect than any computer game possible is ludicrous.
Do you play s lot of Madden?

Football play calling us more intellectual than chess imo

A coach on the freild needs several others to help him do it even..

Playing the game alone is even more in depth...



I really don't think you know what you are talking about..

[-playmaker-]

No I said that when you believe in god, but are not religious then you are not a theist. Because a theist is someone who believes that there is one god who has rules pertaining to how people should behave. Which makes theism decidedly religious in nature.

Nice try though. Next time you lie pick something less obvious.
No...that is not what a thiest is retard

[Gifted Mind]

No doubt. If you know of any videogames that are more intellectually challenging than chess please post them. That was partially the OP's intention.
The OP asks for computer games. One can create what you can call a computer game that is more challenging than chess trivially. How? Create a computer game that is like chess but just adds another degree of difficulty. As I said, you trivially then have a computer game that requires more intellect than chess.

But as I said, this comparison doesn't make sense to begin with.

[Gifted Mind]

Do you play s lot of Madden?

Football play calling us more intellectual than chess imo

A coach on the freild needs several others to help him do it even..

Playing the game alone is even more in depth...



I really don't think you know what you are talking about..

:facepalm


It will be interesting to see which of the 2 of you figure out how ridiculously wrong they are and admits it 1st.

[LJJ]

No...that is not what a thiest is retard

It is according to encyclopedia britannica.

[RainierBeachPoet]

No doubt. If you know of any videogames that are more intellectually challenging than chess please post them. That was partially the OP's intention.

thanks for bringing this thread back on point.

i have been trying to look up the ones that had been suggested thus far...

[Jackass18]

Well, someone does agree with pt: http://www.texasbusiness.com/football-more-complex-than-chess-cms-2930-printer

[tpols]

Madden is more complex imo intellectually because it IS. The guys that win those tourneys are rain men too...it is turn based, requires thought on past and future moves...there are 100 factors that define a player.etc

You don't even need a controller...take the.actual game play out and it still requires more thought just on play calling alone.


Of course I already said all that but LJJ assumed I ment programming...the GAME is more complex than chess
I've played hundreds of madden games online, against guys, that while obviously aren't world champions, are very good with 100+ wins and a 2:1 ratio.. and while at that level, madden doesn't even touch chess. First off, half of being good at madden, is not even about playcalling. You have to be good at physically using the quarterback, wide recievers, and running backs on offense, and you have to have your 1second blitzes and what not all timed out perfectly and be able to control the guys in your backfield very well on defense. Playcalling and audibles are a big part of it, but there's not NEARLY the amount of memorization or different combinations of moves needed to be successful. Most people play out of a couple different playbooks(4-3, nickel, quarter for example) and they audible to individual zone and man coverages based on what the offense comes out with. The game does not require you to be extremely smart where as chess is filled with very high IQ people.

In fact, I remember seeing a madden tournament from a few years ago on ESPN 2 and the guys playing in the finals were a couple of totally regular dudes with sports jerseys on who were just very good at the game and played it all the time.

A lot of video games are just experience, reflexes and coordination too if we're talking about online shit.. maybe some puzzle games or RTSes can make you think as much as chess does, but to suggest madden even touches in that department makes no sense.

[-playmaker-]

Well, someone does agree with pt: http://www.texasbusiness.com/football-more-complex-than-chess-cms-2930-printer
Good article...lol

Football IS more complex than chess

[falc39]

thanks for bringing this thread back on point.

i have been trying to look up the ones that had been suggested thus far...

yeah check out starcraft 2, a relatively new game that is really picking up in the USA. starcraft 1 is dominated by koreans, but starcraft 2 seems more spread out worldwide in talent. not only that, tournaments that have big cash payouts are becoming more common. since the game is still young, new strategies are being developed and it's interesting to watch how the scene develops.

i probably could never be good at it, rts was never my forte, but it is fun to watch. the pros have to be insanely good. we are talking about guys who have build orders, game sense, timings, multitasking, strategy/knowledge, etc nearly perfected because they are practicing 8-10 hours a day while being payed to do so.

[-playmaker-]

I've played hundreds of madden games online, against guys, that while obviously aren't world champions, are very good with 100+ wins and a 2:1 ratio.. and while at that level, madden doesn't even touch chess. First off, half of being good at madden, is not even about playcalling. You have to be good at physically using the quarterback, wide recievers, and running backs on offense, and you have to have your 1second blitzes and what not all timed out perfectly and be able to control the guys in your backfield very well on defense. Playcalling and audibles are a big part of it, but there's not NEARLY the amount of memorization or different combinations of moves needed to be successful. Most people play out of a couple different playbooks(4-3, nickel, quarter for example) and they audible to individual zone and man coverages based on what the offense comes out with. The game does not require you to be extremely smart where as chess is filled with very high IQ people.

In fact, I remember seeing a madden tournament from a few years ago on ESPN 2 and the guys playing in the finals were a couple of totally regular dudes with sports jerseys on who were just very good at the game and played it all the time.

A lot of video games are just experience, reflexes and coordination too if we're talking about online shit.. maybe some puzzle games or RTSes can make you think as much as chess does, but to suggest madden even touches in that department makes no sense.
play calling is most of it given that you can only control one man...good play calling is vital in madden, if you are facing someone good. That is why they are better, they call the right plays.

Take the controller away, it is a complete mind sport

[GatorKid117]

The only computer game that I could argue for is Starcraft. Even then I would probably still say chess requires more intellect. However, I think Starcraft requires a greater mental capacity to play. Your macro (build orders) and micro (how you use your guys) need to be top notch and you have to have great reflexes. Even more important your movement needs to be elite as well. It is just a more encompassing mental experience imo when you get to pro tournaments and such. Watching the pros play it is almost unreal. I've played for years and still can't hold a candle to the top players.

Top Players APM: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SSVFqOihMIE

Sh/t is crazy.

[tpols]

you think the best chess players just picked it up and played a few times and were really good immediately?
Where did I say or imply that.

Anyone can master madden football online. I'm not saying stupid people can master it, but someone with an average or slightly above average IQ can practice and be one of the best.. From what I've seen with the chess masters in the world, they are all extremely smart guys with IQs at 130+.

Chess takes more natural intelligence, memorization ability, quick/critical thinking~processing a bunch of different scenarios in your head, etc. than madden.

Another thing about chess in relation to madden. You only have to think one play at a time in madden(you can predict what they'll do on the next play based on what they've been doing the whole game or what they did on the previous play, but while playcalling you can really focus on one play moreso than chess). With chess, you have to think many more moves ahead.

[-playmaker-]

That isn't true tpols...smart people dominate Madden.

Just cause you saw some ******s on mtv playing doesn't mean the elite players aren't geeky ass zit faced dorks with retardedly high IQs...they are genius

Madden dominates ghettos and all that, but that doesnt mean smart people don't dominate


If you want to be elite at Madden it does require a ton of intellect

[-playmaker-]

Another thing about chess in relation to madden. You only have to think one play at a time in madden(you can predict what they'll do on the next play based on what they've been doing the whole game or what they did on the previous play, but while playcalling you can really focus on one play moreso than chess). With chess, you have to think many more moves ahead.
And THIS shows you know jack shit about football.

You set up future plays...run game sets up the future pass etc

[tpols]

That isn't true tpols...smart people dominate Madden.

Just cause you saw some ******s on mtv playing doesn't mean the elite players aren't geeky ass zit faced dorks with retardedly high IQs...they are genius

Madden dominates ghettos and all that, but that doesnt mean smart people don't dominate


If you want to be elite at Madden it does require a tonight intellect
Smart people dominate any game that requires a fair amount of intelligence and decision making abilities to play.

If you put two people, one with an IQ of 140 and the other 100 in a room, and they both have the same football knowledge and madden video game experience, the smarter person will win most of the time.

That doesn't mean that madden takes more intelligence than a timed game of chess.

Like I said before, madden only requires critical thinking and responsiveness for one or two plays at a time. Chess requires the memorization of whole strings of moves on top of each other that are constantly changing as your opponent makes his move. The guy who has the mental capabilities to plan the farthest ahead, given that they have similar experience and are familiar with the movesets, will win.

If we were to compare madden champion IQs to the chessmasters throughout the world I guarantee the average chessmaster IQ would be way higher.

This is such an absurd comparison, I cant believe I'm arguing it.

[tpols]

And THIS shows you know jack shit about football.

You set up future plays...run game sets up the future pass etc
Yea for one series/full possesion at a time. You run the ball to set up your passing game and the other way around to keep the defense on it's toes, but it's not nearly as complex as how far ahead chess players are thinking.

I have a feeling you've never played a game of chess in your life.

[-playmaker-]

Smart people dominate any game that requires a fair amount of intelligence and decision making abilities to play.

If you put two people, one with an IQ of 140 and the other 100 in a room, and they both have the same football knowledge and madden video game experience, the smarter person will win most of the time.

That doesn't mean that madden takes more intelligence than a timed game of chess.

Like I said before, madden only requires critical thinking and responsiveness for one or two plays at a time. Chess requires the memorization of whole strings of moves on top of each other that are constantly changing as your opponent makes his move. The guy who has the mental capabilities to plan the farthest ahead, given that they have similar experience and are familiar with the movesets, will win.

If we were to compare madden champion IQs to the chessmasters throughout the world I guarantee the average chessmaster IQ would be way higher.

This is such an absurd comparison, I cant believe I'm arguing it.
you don't have a clue what you are talking about...you can go in with an entire game plan on the whole game...

If you just focus one play system time then you suck...

And chess having smarter players is meaningless...

[-playmaker-]

Yea for one series/full possesion at a time. You run the ball to set up your passing game and the other way around to keep the defense on it's toes, but it's not nearly as complex as how far ahead chess players are thinking.

I have a feeling you've never played a game of chess in your life.
I know how to play chess...I am decent

I bet I have more knowledge on chess than you do on football

[tpols]

you don't have a clue what you are talking about...you can go in with an entire game plan on the whole game...

If you just focus one play system time then you suck...

And chess having smarter players is meaningless...
When I was refering to focusing on one play, I meant you go into the play to RUN the play. A lot of the game is audibles and using trickery while forming your ONE play.

Of course, you will have a game plan where you run a certain percentage of runs and passes and other formations(wildcat etc.) but the execution of your ONE running play won't affect the rest of the game necessarily because you have 3 downs to accomplish the same exact thing.

In chess, EVERY single move you make matters towards the future and the person who has the mental capabilities to plan the farthest ahead and strategize on a dime to their opponent will win. In madden, you can fvck a play up and it won't affect you the rest of the game because you have a down right in front of it to replace it. In chess, one bad move can send you down a strategic spiral.

[-playmaker-]

Playing one play at a time in football is just like playing one play at a time in chess...

Shitty players do it in both games...

[tpols]

I know how to play chess...I am decent

I bet I have more knowledge on chess than you do on football
Dude.. you sound like some hick who has some nostalgic love affair with football and madden and you're propping it up on your bias alone.

Lets make this comparison in various other forums and see who comes out looking like the dumbass.:roll:

[-playmaker-]

When I was refering to focusing on one play, I meant you go into the play to RUN the play. A lot of the game is audibles and using trickery while forming your ONE play.

Of course, you will have a game plan where you run a certain percentage of runs and passes and other formations(wildcat etc.) but the execution of your ONE running play won't affect the rest of the game necessarily because you have 3 downs to accomplish the same exact thing.

In chess, EVERY single move you make matters towards the future and the person who has the mental capabilities to plan the farthest ahead and strategize on a dime to their opponent will win. In madden, you can fvck a play up and it won't affect you the rest of the game because you have a down right in front of it to replace it. In chess, one bad move can send you down a strategic spiral.
one bad move in football can very easily be your end

Game of inches

[tpols]

Playing one play at a time in football is just like playing one play at a time in chess...

Shitty players do it in both games...
If you cant understand the difference between having 4 replaceable downs to accomplish the same thing and a set of sequential moves that all determine where the next move is going to be far down the road I don't know what to tell you.:confusedshrug:

[tpols]

one bad move in football can very easily be your end

Game of inches
I meant as in if you don't succeed on the play.. there's always the next down to strategize and have a crack at it. It's not the same type of thinking.. chess defintely requires more cognitive effort and focus.

[-playmaker-]

If you cant understand the difference between having 4 replaceable downs to accomplish the same thing and a set of sequential moves that all determine where the next move is going to be far down the road I don't know what to tell you.:confusedshrug:
Again you show your lack of knowledge on football.

4th down isn't facing the same D as 1st down...



You are simple minded when it comes to football

[-playmaker-]

I meant as in if you don't succeed on the play.. there's always the next down to strategize and have a crack at it. It's not the same type of thinking.. chess defintely requires more cognitive effort and focus.
There is much much much more to focus on in football imo...

In the end it is impossible to prove...


The amount of intellect put into either game is up to the players

[tpols]

Again you show your lack of knowledge on football.

4th down isn't facing the same D as 1st down...



You are simple minded when it comes to football
Obviously.. you have different strategies for first down, second down, third down, and fourth down depending on the time on the clock, the score, your opponents strategies, and your own strategies. But the game can be won on one play. On first, second, third, or even fourth down you can trick your opponent and win the game. You have to keep a wide playset so the defense or offense doesn't know what you're going to do next, but the game doesn't require the same type of sequential thinking, strategizing, and memorizing.

Don't try to downplay my knowledge of football because you think you're an expert on the topic because your from dallas lol. I've watched football for over a decade and have owned every madden since 03. My football and madden knowledge is fine.

[-playmaker-]

There is so much to focus in on football that it requires multiple coaches to do it...just one man isn't capable

[tpols]

There is so much to focus in on football that it requires multiple coaches to do it...just one man isn't capable
This is the same for basketball.. and a lot of other sports.

And as far as pro football goes that's a personell thing too. How is one guy going to manage 5+ different sets of football.

If you work at a large company, you have managers for all of the different sectors, HR, Engineering, Accounting, Marketing, etc. One man can't handle all of those departments by himself. It's the same concept with football.

You're acting like we have to pool the Dallas Cowboy's HC, QB coach, defensive coach, and offensive coach's collective IQ's together to get the average IQ of a madden online champion.:oldlol:

[OhNoTimNoSho]

I can't believe this argument is still going on, I tried to read through the responses but couldn't since all the counter arguments are pure retardation.


Quite simply, the only reason video games are complex to make is because of the graphics...



Anyway, answer this, or at least think about it:

Chess has existed for 500+ years, always with strong worldwide interest. Throughout that time some of the smartest men have played chess trying to figure out. Now the strongest computers are being built just to try and figure out chess, it has not yet been figured out. Chess still has strong worldwide interest, tournaments are constantly held worldwide.


Now tell me, what video game is complex enough to have a similar life?


And nevermind the fact that this has turned into football vs chess somehow... since real life football is infinitely more complex than any video game, and chess is more complex than football kinda makes me realize im a retard for engaging in this argument.

[-playmaker-]

I can't believe this argument is still going on, I tried to read through the responses but couldn't since all the counter arguments are pure retardation.


Quite simply, the only reason video games are complex to make is because of the graphics...



Anyway, answer this, or at least think about it:

Chess has existed for 500+ years, always with strong worldwide interest. Throughout that time some of the smartest men have played chess trying to figure out. Now the strongest computers are being built just to try and figure out chess, it has not yet been figured out. Chess still has strong worldwide interest, tournaments are constantly held worldwide.


Now tell me, what video game is complex enough to have a similar life?


And nevermind the fact that this has turned into football vs chess somehow... since real life football is infinitely more complex than any video game, and chess is more complex than football kinda makes me realize im a retard for engaging in this argument.

There are many parts of this post that are false, the main one being that games are only more complex because of graphics

[-playmaker-]

There will be and have been computer game tournies world wide since their existence...only reason there weren't in the past is because they didn't exist

[DaHeezy]

Personally I think computer gaming is more hand-eye co-ordination, memory, and/or reaction with a dabble of intellegence. Chess is pretty much all intellegence and strategy, giving chess the advantage. I think playmaker, you're argument is more suited for degree of difficulty as opposed to intellegence.

If this counts I think the only comparable thing as a computer game to chess is tetris

[-playmaker-]

Personally I think computer gaming is more hand-eye co-ordination, memory, and/or reaction with a dabble of intellegence. Chess is pretty much all intellegence and strategy, giving chess the advantage. I think playmaker, you're argument is more suited for degree of difficulty as opposed to intellegence.

If this counts I think the only comparable thing as a computer game to chess is tetris
Computer gaming is EVERY GAME there is...including chess.


You guys are just thinking about masking buttons in street fighter or something...

[OhNoTimNoSho]

There are many parts of this post that are false, the main one being that games are only more complex because of graphics
You make a solid argument, many strong points are in your post with substantial evidence. Clearly you sir are a smarter man than I, and I could never hope to overtake you in a debate. I resign my position.

[Jackass18]

There is so much to focus in on football that it requires multiple coaches to do it...just one man isn't capable

I thought you were arguing for Madden and not the game of football.

[-playmaker-]

You make a solid argument, many strong points are in your post with substantial evidence. Clearly you sir are a smarter man than I, and I could never hope to overtake you in a debate. I resign my position.
Lol...I'm on my phone...hard to make long posts atm


Auto type is killing me here too

[OhNoTimNoSho]

Computer gaming is EVERY GAME there is...including chess.


You guys are just thinking about masking buttons in street fighter or something...
Before my head explodes from to comprehend how you manage to have enough intelligence to have turned on a computer, much less made a post on a message board I must ask you one last question. Wtf does the concept of computer gaming mean inside that incredibly convoluted head of yours? Wtf is computer gaming in chess?


I am sorry that was mean, but my questions still stand.

[DaHeezy]

Computer gaming is EVERY GAME there is...including chess.


You guys are just thinking about masking buttons in street fighter or something...

Well if that's the case then this whole thread is moot

[-playmaker-]

the problem with making the argument to video games is the fact that there is too many other variables of execution/mechanics involved, especially in the madden argument (lolz)

for instance, you execute a running play, but if you have poor reaction and miss time a juke or spin move, then the failure is due to poor user mechanics or game design

an error in chess will come solely from an intellectually faulty move or if the opponent makes a smarter move. a mistake will never come down to mechanics, execution, or reaction or wutever, anyone can move a chess piece. making the right move in chess is 100% intellect. in video games it is not, because not everyone can execute the desired action as well as others.
Also, game design isnt perfect, compared to chess, there is no faults in the mechanics of how the game of chess is played.
true...and players do take advantage of flaws in the game...

I think we should argue as though the game is flawless though...not taking glitches into account

[-playmaker-]

Before my head explodes from to comprehend how you manage to have enough intelligence to have turned on a computer, much less made a post on a message board I must ask you one last question. Wtf does the concept of computer gaming mean inside that incredibly convoluted head of yours? Wtf is computer gaming in chess?


I am sorry that was mean, but my questions still stand.
Um...chess on a computer

Which is very simplistic compared to other games on a comp

[tpols]

Um...chess on a computer

Which is very simplistic compared to other games on a comp
Are you implying that how hard a game is for an engineer to program is directly proportionate to how intelectually challenging it will be for a user to play it?

In that case, Crash Bandicoot is more intellectually challenging than chess..

[-playmaker-]

Are you implying that how hard a game is for an engineer to program is directly proportionate to how intelectually challenging it will be for a user to play it?

In that case, Crash Bandicoot is more intellectually challenging than chess..
The complexity if the GAME PLAY

[-playmaker-]

In terms of game play, not graphics, chess is very simplistic compared to other games...Madden being one

[tpols]

The complexity if the GAME PLAY
How does the complexity of the gameplay relate to intelligence? A game can have very complex mechanics but be very easy to play with little thought required.

[-playmaker-]

How does the complexity of the gameplay relate to intelligence? A game can have very complex mechanics but be very easy to play with little thought required.
a retard can play chess too...I did as a child

[OhNoTimNoSho]

In terms of game play, not graphics, chess is very simplistic compared to other games...Madden being one
How in the hell is chess simplistic.. it takes a long time to learn chess just to play at a beginner level.


I dont think you understand that yes, any retard can sit down in front of a chess game on a computer and move the pieces any way he likes. But it will be a long time before that retard can play a full game of chess and an even longer time before he can win a game.

Compare that to a retard playing A video game, how long will it take him to learn to play?


You really lack critical thinking skills, as well as shame. Anyone else would be ashamed to carry on such a ridiculous argument, but you no, i am impressed by your determination and focus despite how obvious it is that you are incredibly wrong and are also embarrassing yourself.

[tpols]

a retard can play chess too...I did as a child
We're talking about the amount of intelligence that is required to be proficient or master the 'game.' Obviously anyone can play anything.

[-playmaker-]

We're talking about the amount of intelligence that is required to be proficient or master the 'game.' Obviously anyone can play anything.
The more complex, the longer it takes to master...if by master you mean just become good...not sure either can be completely 100% mastered by a human.

It would be much easier for someone to jump into chess for the first time thanmany games out there.


Competitive video gaming can require insane amounts of intellegence...geekiest kids ever win them

[-playmaker-]

How in the hell is chess simplistic.. it takes a long time to learn chess just to play at a beginner level.


I dont think you understand that yes, any retard can sit down in front of a chess game on a computer and move the pieces any way he likes. But it will be a long time before that retard can play a full game of chess and an even longer time before he can win a game.

Compare that to a retard playing A video game, how long will it take him to learn to play?


You really lack critical thinking skills, as well as shame. Anyone else would be ashamed to carry on such a ridiculous argument, but you no, i am impressed by your determination and focus despite how obvious it is that you are incredibly wrong and are also embarrassing yourself.
you're an idiot...lol

Uh, what is computer chess...lol

[-playmaker-]

the reason the comparison is bad is because video games are much more than just thought, chess is purely thought. you're using other skills to play a game, you're only using thought and ability to move a piece in chess.
That is why some are arguing that it takes more intellect, because it is all intellect...however more complex games still require more thought than chess

If you want to play at an elite level anyway

[Abd El-Krim]

Boxing vs MMA...

[OhNoTimNoSho]

That is why some are arguing that it takes more intellect, because it is all intellect...however more complex games still require more thought than chess

If you want to play at an elite level anyway
http://www.funnypictureblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/04/ExplodingHead.gif

[tpols]

The more complex, the longer it takes to master...if by master you mean just become good...not sure either can be completely 100% mastered by a human.

It would be much easier for someone to jump into chess for the first time thanmany games out there.


Competitive video gaming can require insane amounts of intellegence...geekiest kids ever win them
Wrong.

Many video games are more 'complex' than chess in that they have more 'complex' movements and abilities but a lot of them aren't based on intelligence.

The 'complexity' for your character in halo to shoot a battle rifle across the 3-D map with all of the buildings and obstacles in the way and hit an opposing player in the head while, a split second later, launching a sticky grenade at their face is a whole lot more 'complex' than moving pieces of wood around a black and white colored board, but one requires coordinational skill and reflexes[halo] and the other requires pure intellectual thought[chess].

I'm seriously starting to think that you cant comprehend what I'm talking about though because you lack the very mental capabilities I'm trying to describe to you.

[RainierBeachPoet]

are you interested in playing these or just curious?

mostly curious

i will always play chess but i dont think i have enough time to get into a different game

i really wanted to hear from those who play both-- esp. if one knows chess at a higher level-- how the new games compare

[pete's montreux]

mostly curious

i will always play chess but i dont think i have enough time to get into a different game

i really wanted to hear from those who play both-- esp. if one knows chess at a higher level-- how the new games compare

a game like L.A. Noire will require you to read facial expressions

[artificial]

Sightly off topic, but RBP have you ever played go?

I've always thought that go is slightly more complex than chess, because of it's simpler rules. I never went hardcore neither in chess nor in go, so I might be mistaken. Just curious on what other people think.

[RainierBeachPoet]

Sightly off topic, but RBP have you ever played go?

I've always thought that go is slightly more complex than chess, because of it's simpler rules. I never went hardcore neither in chess nor in go, so I might be mistaken. Just curious on what other people think.

i have only a basic knowledge of go; i have only played a couple of times

but i agree, it seems that "masters" of go need to have a certain visual imagination to play it well and read one's opponent's strategy

any go players want to chime in?

[-playmaker-]

Wrong.

Many video games are more 'complex' than chess in that they have more 'complex' movements and abilities but a lot of them aren't based on intelligence.

The 'complexity' for your character in halo to shoot a battle rifle across the 3-D map with all of the buildings and obstacles in the way and hit an opposing player in the head while, a split second later, launching a sticky grenade at their face is a whole lot more 'complex' than moving pieces of wood around a black and white colored board, but one requires coordinational skill and reflexes[halo] and the other requires pure intellectual thought[chess].

I'm seriously starting to think that you cant comprehend what I'm talking about though because you lack the very mental capabilities I'm trying to describe to you.
I am thinking the exact same about you only what I am explaining isn't that difficult...many computer games are more complex, this is fact...it goes beyond your grenades in an fps

[OhNoTimNoSho]

I am thinking the exact same about you only what I am explaining isn't that difficult...many computer games are more complex, this is fact...it goes beyond your grenades in an fps
Dude now im convinced you are trolling....


It would be one thing if you were explaining things and people weren't getting them, but you are just making statements and doing nothing to elaborate....

[-playmaker-]

I suppose you could take the angle that you could put endless amounts of intellect into each...or intellect beyond human capability.

Making it a tie...

Unless someone has fully mastered chess...then computer games win

[-playmaker-]

Dude now im convinced you are trolling....


It would be one thing if you were explaining things and people weren't getting them, but you are just making statements and doing nothing to elaborate....
again, I am on a phone...sorry

[RainierBeachPoet]

I suppose you could take the angle that you could put endless amounts of intellect into each...or intellect beyond human capability.

Making it a tie...

Unless someone has fully mastered chess...then computer games win

perhaps one factor here is longevity and popularity.

chess has evolved over the ages and has a worldwide appeal with those who both use a computer to play and with others who just play it as a board game

as an outsider looking in, it seems that certain computer games have a popularity for a time and then and newer/different game comes along and displaces it.

it takes years to "master" any one game. maybe this gives chess a certain advantage over any one specific computer game

what do you think?

[-playmaker-]

perhaps one factor here is longevity and popularity.

chess has evolved over the ages and has a worldwide appeal with those who both use a computer to play and with others who just play it as a board game

as an outsider looking in, it seems that certain computer games have a popularity for a time and then and newer/different game comes along and displaces it.

it takes years to "master" any one game. maybe this gives chess a certain advantage over any one specific computer game

what do you think?
It is the same game being replaced with a newer more in depth version sometimes...

Like Madden, it has been around since the beginning...just gets better each year...it will eventually be an extremely accurate simulation of the real NFL.


Computer games are here to stay, and if I had to guess will surpass chess one day in terms of how serious they are takin..

[JtotheIzzo]

Which Takes More Intellect?

Chess obviously, the permutations and strategies are endless. Sure anyone with half a brain can learn the laws of the game and play, but to get to high levels, it is almost always the domain of elite thinkers, mathematicians and physicists.

Video games are skill based in nature. Intellect will only get you so far in a video game if the requisite hand-eye coordination is lacking. To get to the higher echelons of gaming one needs superior skill, which is achieved through repetition.

[-playmaker-]

Chess obviously, the permutations and strategies are endless. Sure anyone with half a brain can learn the laws of the game and play, but to get to high levels, it is almost always the domain of elite thinkers, mathematicians and physicists.

Video games are skill based in nature. Intellect will only get you so far in a video game if the requisite hand-eye coordination is lacking. To get to the higher echelons of gaming one needs superior skill, which is achieved through repetition.
You need both in gaming...controller skills only get you so far as well.

And the best gamers in the world are also super geeks

[tpols]

You need both in gaming...controller skills only get you so far as well.

And the best gamers in the world are also super geeks
Thats because these 'super geeks' tend to have limited social lives so they spend all of their time playing video games. What the fvck else are they going to do in their spare time?

[-playmaker-]

Thats because these 'super geeks' tend to have limited social lives so they spend all of their time playing video games. What the fvck else are they going to do in their spare time?
yeah, like bobby fisher

There are bobby fishers in the video game world as well

[JtotheIzzo]

yeah, like bobby fisher

There are bobby fishers in the video game world as well


THE QUESTION IS INTELLECT, and mastering chess demands more intellect than mastering Madden 2010.

[Pinkhearts]

The reason why computer games isn't as "complex" as chess is because they are not as well studied yet. And the games are constantly patched and changing so players have to change instead of learning and advancing.

Leaving starcraft untouched for decades will result in strategy so complex you won't believe it be played this way.

[-playmaker-]

THE QUESTION IS INTELLECT, and mastering chess demands more intellect than mastering Madden 2010.
Neither of those two games can be fully mastered but I promise you it would take longer to master every aspect of Madden...

[-playmaker-]

Leaving starcraft untouched for decades will result in strategy so complex you won't believe it be played this way.
Exactly

If Madden was around in 1600 the skill set there would be unreal...

[tpols]

yeah, like bobby fisher

There are bobby fishers in the video game world as well
Chess isn't as much of a recreational activity as video games are. You can just love Halo, or COD, and play it all the time and become extremely skilled at the game.

In today's day and age, not many people are running home and playing chess all day. I feel like it's more of a sport.. something you have to train for and something that has a lot of prestige attached to it.

I remember watching the True Life Chess Master addition, and those guys were literally practicing chess for large portions of the day with timers and everything. I mean.. you'd have to do the same thing to master a video game, or anything for that matter, but there's a lot more fun attached to playing a video game imo.

[-playmaker-]

Chess isn't as much of a recreational activity as video games are. You can just love Halo, or COD, and play it all the time and become extremely skilled at the game.

In today's day and age, not many people are running home and playing chess all day. I feel like it's more of a sport.. something you have to train for and something that has a lot of prestige attached to it.

I remember watching the True Life Chess Master addition, and those guys were literally practicing chess for large portions of the day with timers and everything. I mean.. you'd have to do the same thing to master a video game, or anything for that matter, but there's a lot more fun attached to playing a video game imo.
I agree

I bet if fisher were born today he would be a gamer...not a chess player

[Lebowsky]

Prime, a stoner HS dropout can become a Madden master (or any other video game for that matter) if he does nothing but play all day, but that same guy could never become a chess master if there isn't a certain something in his brain. It's like math, you can learn it and you can become good at it with practise, but to fully comprehend it and use it creatively you need to have a privileged brain. Being great at video games is just skill and repetition. Being great at chess is innate.

[-playmaker-]

Prime, a stoner HS dropout can become a Madden master (or any other video game for that matter) if he does nothing but play all day, but that same guy could never become a chess master if there isn't a certain something in his brain. It's like math, you can learn it and you can become good at it with practise, but to fully comprehend it and use it creatively you need to have a privileged brain. Being great at video games is just skill and repetition. Being great at chess is innate.
That is a stereotype....I promise you the best games out there are extremely gifted

A lot of madden players are what you described, and they can be very good...but a bobby fisher type will stomp them..


Get on the Madden forums, it will get compared to chess in convos a lot...they are similar in many ways...

Most of Madden is the play calling...you can only control one man..

[Lebowsky]

That is a stereotype....I promise you the best games out there are extremely gifted

A lot of madden players are what you described, and they can be very good...but a bobby rusher type will stomp them..


Get on the Madden forums, it will get compared to chess in convos a lot...they are similar in many ways...

Most of Madden is the play calling...you can only control one man..

I know nothing about Madden in particular, hell I know nothing about american football. I'm just saying.

[iamgine]

The question is bad because Computer Gaming is clearly the answer due to technicality.

Chess is fixed. it doesn't change. The most intellectually difficult it can go is probably blindfold chess. Computer gaming however, can be as intellectually challenging as it wants to be. There's no upper limit.

[N0Skillz]

:facepalm to anyone that thinks a game requires more intellect then chess.

Most games are just hand eye coordination and reflexes.


Some games might make you think a little bit but you can't compare that to chess.

[-playmaker-]

There is a Canadian Madden player that goes by the handle "iamdamngood" who has a record of like 300-1...only lost one game this year

He is a Madden super geek...absolute genius

I have played him, just when you think you are a bad ass at Madden someone like that will come along to remind you there is still infinite room for improvement...

[OhNoTimNoSho]

There is a Canadian Madden player that goes by the handle "iamdamngood" who has a record of like 300-1...only lost one game this year

He is a Madden super geek...absolute genius

I have played him, just when you think you are a bad ass at Madden someone like that will come along to remind you there is still infinite room for improvement...


Dude clearly you are a stoner that likes to play madden and you also know nothing of chess, or even understand how video games work. Are you in high school, college? What kind of grades do you get? Do you smoke weed?

I think these questions will help me understand better how a person could have such difficulty understanding such simple concepts.

[N0Skillz]

Dude clearly you are a stoner that likes to play madden and you also know nothing of chess, or even understand how video games work. Are you in high school, college? What kind of grades do you get? Do you smoke weed?

I think these questions will help me understand better how a person could have such difficulty understanding such simple concepts.


i think he is trolling

[Pinkhearts]

Exactly

If Madden was around in 1600 the skill set there would be unreal...

Comparing Madden to Chess? You're kidding.

Your options are so limited in Madden, the strategies you can come up with are so weak. I rather you compare street fighter to chess than madden.

[-playmaker-]

Lol..I am actually a game dev...have been for over a decade...any the that posts here knows that....it might make me biased but I know my video games

I don't smoke weed...haven't touched it in years now

[-playmaker-]

Dude clearly you are a stoner that likes to play madden and you also know nothing of chess, or even understand how video games work. Are you in high school, college? What kind of grades do you get? Do you smoke weed?

I think these questions will help me understand better how a person could have such difficulty understanding such simple concepts.
how about you...what is your background? A pro chess player that loves drunk iverson and talking shit?

What the f*ck are you so butt hurt over?

Pull the queen and two pawns out your ass b*tch...then post

[-playmaker-]

Comparing Madden to Chess? You're kidding.

Your options are so limited in Madden, the strategies you can come up with are so weak. I rather you compare street fighter to chess than madden.
The options are limitless, you have no idea what you are talking about.

If you even understood football playcalling you would know you are wrong

[N0Skillz]

Definitely Trolling...

[RainierBeachPoet]

reading these latest responses, i have a related question that affects the debate:

is the pace of a chess game a deterrent for people to play/learn it?

since many computer games are done at a fast pace, the same players who play them may be too impatient with the slower pace of chess...

[LJJ]

i think he is trolling

No no, definitely not trolling. These are actual thoughts that primetime has. Conclusions he reaches after days of painful deliberating. This is literally true. As I've said, it's kind of astonishing.

He probably also thinks he has better intellectual ability than Kasparov because he could probably beat him at Madden.

[RainierBeachPoet]

reading these latest responses, i have a related question that affects the debate:

is the pace of a chess game a deterrent for people to play/learn it?

since many computer games are done at a fast pace, the same players who play them may be too impatient with the slower pace of chess...

anyone here play both at an above average level to comment well about the above thought?

[OhNoTimNoSho]

how about you...what is your background? A pro chess player that loves drunk iverson and talking shit?

What the f*ck are you so butt hurt over?

Pull the queen and two pawns out your ass b*tch...then post
Sorry, I was just having one of these moments:

http://www.jerrah.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/01/someone_is_wrong_on_the_internet1.jpg

[-playmaker-]

Guys, Madden football is probably the most competitively played game in the US, if not #1 then at least top 5. It might be the closest thing we have to Starcraft in Korea in terms of large tournies and all that.

Those of you that don't think that game is worthy of being compared here just don't know anything about it, simple as that.


I also didn't mean to upset any of you. LJJ and OhNo, you guys are coming off very offended....lighten up, at the end of the day these are still just games, don't take them so seriously.

[LJJ]

Mad? I just love to point out how legitimately dumb you are. If that equals mad then yeah I'm very upset. :oldlol:

Ignorance is bliss bro! (btw, falling back on the "you mad" defense? just nails in your coffin holmes)

[-playmaker-]

Mad? I just love to point out how legitimately dumb you are. If that equals mad then yeah I'm very upset. :oldlol:

Ignorance is bliss bro! (btw, falling back on the "you mad" defense? just nails in your coffin holmes)
Okay so you just love to troll me. Got it.

Try debating instead of thrashing threads to hell with your childish bs next time...

[LJJ]

You call it trolling, I call it doing our new posters who are not familiar with your stupidity a service. You see it all over this thread, new posters asking "Is he trolling? Please tell me he's only trolling and that's not actually his opinion."

And I'm sure there are dozens other readers of this forum thinking the same thing.

I'm just doing them a favor by pointing out: No you are not trolling. This is just another retarded opinion in an long line of retarded opinions you've had during your activity on this board.

[-playmaker-]

You call it trolling, I call it doing our new posters who are not familiar with your stupidity a service. You see it all over this thread, new posters asking "Is he trolling? Please tell me he's only trolling and that's not actually his opinion."

And I'm sure there are dozens other readers of this forum thinking the same thing.

I'm just doing them a favor by pointing out: No you are not trolling. This is just another retarded opinion in an long line of retarded opinions you've had during your activity on this board.
but the only one that looks like a retarded child is you...as others have pointed out...just like the religion thread where you tried to ruin and ended up looking like a retarded douche.


How old are you L?

[LJJ]

That' still only one thread. You come off as a retarded douche in every opinionated thread. It's crazy.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

Okay so you just love to troll me. Got it.

Try debating instead of thrashing threads to hell with your childish bs next time...
Dude you did nothing to debate and all you made is empty statements while providing 0 rationale.


wtf is wrong with you? You think you can just come on here and be wrong on the internet without people getting upset... This is the internet dude, there is nothing better to do.

Its also amusing to watch the mental acrobatics you employ cus your brain can't cope with being wrong, as well as, how you dismiss and give no consideration to every single fact brought against your argument.

It would be one thing if you were kinda right or had some sort of point on your part, but you are just so incredibly wrong that the loosest of logic can't string together your thought process, its like watching a train wreck.

[-playmaker-]

That' still only one thread. You come off as a retarded douche in every opinionated thread. It's crazy.
Okay, like what?

In this thread I am correct...what thread was it that made you so upset?

Tell me another thread...if it is so crazy name just one


At least you own up to the religion one...lol

[OhNoTimNoSho]

That' still only one thread. You come off as a retarded douche in every opinionated thread. It's crazy.
Ok it all makes sense now, hes that guy. Everyone knows a guy like that

[-playmaker-]

Dude you did nothing to debate and all you made is empty statements while providing 0 rationale.


wtf is wrong with you? You think you can just come on here and be wrong on the internet without people getting upset... This is the internet dude, there is nothing better to do.

Its also amusing to watch the mental acrobatics you employ cus your brain can't cope with being wrong, as well as, how you dismiss and give no consideration to every single fact brought against your argument.

It would be one thing if you were kinda right or had some sort of point on your part, but you are just so incredibly wrong that the loosest of logic can't string together your thought process, its like watching a train wreck.
I have brought 10x more than you, all you bring is insults

[-playmaker-]

Ok it all makes sense now, hes that guy. Everyone knows a guy like that
I've been here your entire existence..

[-playmaker-]

Well, someone does agree with pt: http://www.texasbusiness.com/football-more-complex-than-chess-cms-2930-printer
there, read that OhNo

[RainierBeachPoet]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

[OhNoTimNoSho]

I have brought 10x more than you, all you bring is insults
No, I bring insults while providing a solid argument, big difference.

[LJJ]

No, I bring insults while providing a solid argument, big difference.

Primetime is a lost cause bro. There is no cure for stupid.

[-playmaker-]

:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:
This is not my fault, sorry.

Anyway I think Madden has a solid case, like I said it is probably the most competitively played game in the country. Not on Starcraft level but maybe close.

It never tops out in terms of skill level, and most of it is based on play calling and intellect rather than controller skills.


Anyway...I don't want to keep going in circles with that

[Colin Cowherd]

primetime is a stupid, delusional Cowboys fans.

Ignore any argument that meatball brings to the table.

What a dumpster fire.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

there, read that OhNo
Read it.


Soooo, I'll make some points which you'll ignore and make some random unrelated statements in order to protect your belief system. but ill do it anyway. You would earn a great deal of respect if you actually address the points which ill make.


His argument, Football is more complex than chess.

Your argument, computer gaming takes more intelligence than chess.

See where Im going with this?

He might actually have a point, since yes, football is played with many people, with lots of real life factors at play.

Now are these factors which make football complex, are they related to intelligence or athleticism? .... Hmmm.... To anyone this is obvious, but im sure its a tough question for you.

The only actual argument you could make out all this is, does it take more intelligence to coach a football team at a high level or play chess at a high level?

So im sure it would be an interesting argument to argue with the guy that wrote that since he seems to have more than 2 brain cells. But with you... a person who has the foresight of a goldfish, its more fun to practice my insulting creativity.

See that, insults as well as a solid argument.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

Primetime is a lost cause bro. There is no cure for stupid.
lol, I have friends like this, and I always thought that maybe if I just make a good enough argument they will be able to admit that they are wrong, but I guess not.

[-playmaker-]

Read it.


Soooo, I'll make some points which you'll ignore and make some random unrelated statements in order to protect your belief system. but ill do it anyway. You would earn a great deal of respect if you actually address the points which ill make.


His argument, Football is more complex than chess.

Your argument, computer gaming takes more intelligence than chess.

See where Im going with this?

He might actually have a point, since yes, football is played with many people, with lots of real life factors at play.

Now are these factors which make football complex, are they related to intelligence or athleticism? .... Hmmm.... To anyone this is obvious, but im sure its a tough question for you.

The only actual argument you could make out all this is, does it take more intelligence to coach a football team at a high level or play chess at a high level?

So im sure it would be an interesting argument to argue with the guy that wrote that since he seems to have more than 2 brain cells. But with you... a person who has the foresight of a goldfish, its more fun to practice my insulting creativity.

See that, insults as well as a solid argument.
he used Madden to show it...did you really read it?

And I am not going to debate you if you arent capable if posting without insults, seriously grow up, you can do it.

Football IS Madden though...like he said the combinations you can use are endless


Football is chess on a battlefield

[-playmaker-]

lol, I have friends like this, and I always thought that maybe if I just make a good enough argument they will be able to admit that they are wrong, but I guess not.
Maybe your friends are right...

[OhNoTimNoSho]

he used Madden to show it...did you really read it?

And I am not going to debate you if you arent capable if posting without insults, seriously grow up, you can do it.

Football IS Madden though...like he said the combinations you can use are endless


Football is chess on a battlefield
I give up, you couldn't debate me regardless. The insults are the entertainment for me.


Lol, football is madden....


you crazy son

[N0Skillz]

he used Madden to show it...did you really read it?

And I am not going to debate you if you arent capable if posting without insults, seriously grow up, you can do it.

Football IS Madden though...like he said the combinations you can use are endless


Football is chess on a battlefield


Except in Madden all your pieces are moving at the same time and you only have control of one and if you mess up you have 3 more tries. There is barely any positioning involved and one side is either committed to offense or defense and has no other options. Contrary to chess where you can only make 1 move per turn while you have 18 pieces, and are constantly on defense and offense because you have to account for every piece on the enemy team.

[-playmaker-]

Except in Madden all your pieces are moving at the same time and you only have control of one and if you mess up you have 3 more tries. There is barely any positioning involved and one side is either committed to offense or defense and has no other options. Contrary to chess where you can only make 1 move per turn while you have 18 pieces, and are constantly on defense and offense because you have to account for every piece on the enemy team.
Imo what you just described makes Madden more complex...

In football, just like chess, one mistake could and will cost you the game against a skilled player...having multiple downs is complexity...

In both games you are making moves to set up a future big move...moves are based on knowing what your opponent will do...

In football you need to know your opponents strengths and weaknesses to base your moves around...if a player is a chess piece, that piece is FAR more complicated...a player in Madden has dozens of stats that make up how the AI controls it...a chess piece can only do so many things compared to a "piece" in Madden.


Skilled Madden players use extreme intellect, there is no question about it...Madden is a thinking man's game, not a game for button mashers.

[N0Skillz]

Imo what you just described makes Madden more complex...

In football, just like chess, one mistake could and will cost you the game against a skilled player...having multiple downs is complexity...

In both games you are making moves to set up a future big move...moves are based on knowing what your opponent will do...

In football you need to know your opponents strengths and weaknesses to base your moves around...if a player is a chess piece, that piece is FAR more complicated...a player in Madden has dozens of stats that make up how the AI controls it...a chess piece can only do so many things compared to a "piece" in Madden.


Skilled Madden players use extreme intellect, there is no question about it...Madden is a thinking man's game, not a game for button mashers.
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

There is a difference between a game being complex and it requiring people to think hard. Also one mistake in madden wont cost you the game.

[-playmaker-]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

There is a difference between a game being complex and it requiring people to think hard. Also one mistake in madden wont cost you the game.
One mistake in Madden could easily cost you the game...lol

How are you going to debate this if you don't know the game?

[N0Skillz]

One mistake in Madden could easily cost you the game...lol

How are you going to debate this if you don't know the game?


I do know the game.. I have played all the Games since Madden 99 to Madden 10.


You can make a shit ton of mistakes in Madden and still come out the victor...

[-playmaker-]

I do know the game.. I have played all the Games since Madden 99 to Madden 10.


You can make a shit ton of mistakes in Madden and still come out the victor...
Not against a skilled player

You can make a ton of mistakes in chess and not lose too if your opponent sucks...

If me and you were to play I would beat you 10 times out of 10...because of my play calling...not controller skills

Intact if you are xbox I will show you

[N0Skillz]

Anyone in here ever play Advance Wars?

i played the second one and that required alot more thinking then Madden does.

[-playmaker-]

i played the second one and that required alot more thinking then Madden does.
If you played me in Madden I would frustrate your brain till it explodes...lol

[tpols]

I do know the game.. I have played all the Games since Madden 99 to Madden 10.


You can make a shit ton of mistakes in Madden and still come out the victor...
Yup.. what PT is ignoring is that the game can be WON on one play also.

In madden any given play can be a win or a loss because any given play can result in a momentum crushing turnover or a game sealing touchdown.. it goes both ways.

And PT doesn't understand the difference between something that is complex in the way it is created and something that takes a lot of intelligence to master.

I've played madden a shit load and you have to think a lot to try to outsmart your opponent on any given play you're about to run, but then you get to actually PLAY the game.. it's not a constant thinking battle. It's play for 20 seconds, stop, think about your next play, start playing again.. etc. you get a million breaks in between thinking about what play you'll run next because you actually get to control your players for sometime.. and all of the audibles become totally reflexive after a while with minimal thinking involved. You probably actually 'think' for less than 50% of the time in madden..

Chess, on the other hand, requires thinking 100% of the way through. When you're making your move you're strategizing and thinking ahead and when your opponent is making his move, your adjusting your gameplan and trying to figure out what to do next.

There's just no debate here. Chess exercises your brain and thinking capabilities so much more than madden.

That in addition to what I explained before [I was saying how madden doesnt require any sequential thinking with a a bunch of pieces that are set in constant positions that change in between the incremental turns; madden gives you 4 replaceable downs that you can prepare for each individually that are unrelated to each other once the other play is over] is why madden doesn't touch chess intellectually despite it having more complex animations and software behind it.

[-playmaker-]

Yup.. what PT is ignoring is that the game can be WON on one play also.

In madden any given play can be a win or a loss because any given play can result in a momentum crushing turnover or a game sealing touchdown.. it goes both ways.

And PT doesn't understand the difference between something that is complex in the way it is created and something that takes a lot of intelligence to master.

I've played madden a shit load and you have to think a lot to try to outsmart your opponent on any given play you're about to run, but then you get to actually PLAY the game.. it's not a constant thinking battle. It's play for 20 seconds, stop, think about your next play, start playing again.. etc. you get a million breaks in between thinking about what play you'll run next because you actually get to control your players for sometime.. and all of the audibles become totally reflexive after a while with minimal thinking involved. You probably actually 'think' for less than 50% of the time in madden..

Chess, on the other hand, requires thinking 100% of the way through. When you're making your move you're strategizing and thinking ahead and when your opponent is making his move, your adjusting your gameplan and trying to figure out what to do next.

There's just no debate here. Chess exercises your brain and thinking capabilities so much more than madden.

That in addition to what I explained before [I was saying how madden doesnt require any sequential thinking with a a bunch of pieces that are set in constant positions that change in between the incremental turns; madden gives you 4 replaceable downs that you can prepare for each individually that are unrelated to each other once the other play is over] is why madden doesn't touch chess intellectually despite it having more complex animations and software behind it.
If you want to play Madden at an elite level it requires thinking 100% of the time...

What you are failing to see is that just because you goofed around on Madden with your buddies means that it is Luke that at any level...

Chess can be played at retard levels too...thinking just one play at a time...



Having 4 downs is complexity...1st and 4th down are not the same....

The fact that you have to think on the fly is harder too...unlike an untamed chess game where s player could think about his move for a day...

[-playmaker-]

I'm good at chess btw...if any of you that doubts me wants to play a timed game online let me know...

Maybe if I can show you j know my chess as well as Madden you might listen here rather than brushing everything off.

[-playmaker-]

Dallas vs Thunder

:)

Not complex for Dallas...easy, yawn

[LA_Showtime]

I'm good at chess btw...if any of you that doubts me wants to play a timed game online let me know...

Maybe if I can show you j know my chess as well as Madden you might listen here rather than brushing everything off.

I'll play you.

[-playmaker-]

I'll play you.
That offer was made to those doubting me...not a resident chess pro...lol

LJJ or NoSkills...etc

[-playmaker-]

Not sure how we get around cheating with a sim though...hmm

[Pinkhearts]

Playmaker is either trolling or a complete fool.

What you guys do not understand is how a good game is made. You forgot that chess is a game.....and so are computer games. The level of intellect required depends on how well made the game is. If a game is poorly made it'll suck. If it is well made it will be complex and balanced.

There are plenty of board games that suck. And you can easily make computer games that are far more complex than chess. It's true than many games depend on manual dexterity, but you can easily make games that don't require that.

And madden being the most complex game is a pure haha. Football itself isn't even that highly strategical. Comparing it to chess is a joke.

[-playmaker-]

Playmaker is either trolling or a complete fool.

What you guys do not understand is how a good game is made. You forgot that chess is a game.....and so are computer games. The level of intellect required depends on how well made the game is. If a game is poorly made it'll suck. If it is well made it will be complex and balanced.

There are plenty of board games that suck. And you can easily make computer games that are far more complex than chess. It's true than many games depend on manual dexterity, but you can easily make games that don't require that.

And madden being the most complex game is a pure haha. Football itself isn't even that highly strategical. Comparing it to chess is a joke.
I am a game dev dude...lol...have been for over a decade, I am credit with some pretty big titles, ask around here...you don't know what you're talking about at all.

If you don't think football is complex then you don't know football, simple as that...it is called chess on a battlefield

And I didn't say it is the most complex game there is...it is just one of the most competitively played games in the country.

[-playmaker-]

Anyone that doesn't understand that football itself is extremely complex shouldn't try to debate Madden...

One man can not coach a game...they need headphones for **** sake...the QB needs a list of plays on his arm, cause it too hard to remember it all.

[-playmaker-]

The level of intellect required depends on how well made the game is. If a game is poorly made it'll suck. If it is well made it will be complex and balanced
This is so false it could be seen as tolling...lol

[JtotheIzzo]

Dallas vs Thunder

:)

Not complex for Dallas...easy, yawn


Dirk vs Durant is going to be epic. unfortunately I think Westbrook is going to run laps around Kidd.

[-playmaker-]

Dirk vs Durant is going to be epic. unfortunately I think Westbrook is going to run laps around Kidd.
I don't want to jinx my team but the Thunder aren't known for giving the mavs fits...

[-playmaker-]

I think that quote is true for certain levels of gaming. I've been in CCG loops for years and know how stupid the games are and how the only "rich" players can win the games.

I can be that bad in competitive video game scenes if the games chosen to be used are badly made.
complexity and how well a game is made really don't go together...

You could have a well made racing game that lacks complexity for example

[Timmy D for MVP]

I can't believe this thread is going and then I saw LJJ v playmaker and was like ahhh....

Here's another reason I think this argument is an odd one:

You can't quantify intellectualism. How are we measuring it? Math? Strategy? Anticipating? Problem solving? Creativity? The ability to create? etc....

A combination of all?

What I consider being intelligent may be different from what you consider.

[-playmaker-]

I can't believe this thread is going and then I saw LJJ v playmaker and was like ahhh....

Here's another reason I think this argument is an odd one:

You can't quantify intellectualism. How are we measuring it? Math? Strategy? Anticipating? Problem solving? Creativity? The ability to create? etc....

A combination of all?

What I consider being intelligent may be different from what you consider.
I am basing it on the complexity of the game, but both chess and Madden are impossible to fully master by humans...one could say that they are tied for that reason I guess

Endless amounts of human intellect can be put into each game...

[-playmaker-]

The "made" I talked about is how the rules of the games are applied.
You just mean game design?

It can still have a very strong design and be simple to play I think...


I think if the game play is intended to be complex, then weather or not the development executed that design properly can matter...

Not all games are intended to be complex though...

[bdreason]

Chess takes more intellect to master than any video game I can think of off the top of my head.

[ballup]

Madden is not as complex as coaching real football, let alone being the qb, due to the simple fact that in Madden, you have a bird's eye view of what is going on and you take control of your players. So no Madden isn't the same as real life football. There is a reason why it's labeled as a simulation game.

Chess is more complex than you make it out to be. Think about it, in chess, you are always on both defense and offense while in Madden, you are only on one or the other. Chess also has special rules, that you must follow, for each piece while the players you control in Madden only follow a certain action.

[Pinkhearts]

This guy is a real game dev? Boy he must really suck at his job.

Madden is most complex game in the world that requires geniuses to be good at? In what planet are you living in?

How the hell can you think that a well made computer game can never be as intellectually stimulating as chess is beyond me. A game is a game, be it on a board or on a screen. On a screen you can make way more elements than you can on a board.

Bringing racing games to compare to chess makes you a big joke. A racing game is meant to simulate racing, not meant to challenge you intellectually as chess is meant to. How can you be so dense?

[Jackass18]

Neither of those two games can be fully mastered but I promise you it would take longer to master every aspect of Madden...

Most aspects of Madden don't really require much intellect to master. Why are you still trying to argue for Madden? Play calling does take intellect, but just not on the level of chess.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

I can't believe this guy is still unconsciously yet successfully trolling everyone.

Yo playmaker, since you seem to think madden transcends life and takes immense intellect to master, and at the highest level it is a game of pure intelligence, more so than chess, lets take a look at some of the top madden players and compare them to chess players.

Here is a picture of the 2009 madden finalists from EA sports:

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/videogames/photo/2009/0115/mc_finalists2_580x327.jpg

Here is a pic of them playing in the championship match:

http://assets.espn.go.com/media/videogames/photo/2009/0115/mc_final_320x400.jpg


Now... I'm not a detective from CSI, or even that smart of a guy myself, but just looking at these master artisans perform at their craft at the highest level, what can u deduce? Do they look like the smartest guys or weed smoking cheetoh eating video game playing couch potatos?


And a random paragraph the I read from the article which completely voids all your arguments:


"Everyone pretty much plays the same way," explains Madden vet Ryan "RG" Glick. "Run the ball with your fullback, throw the curl route to the big receiver, throw the screen. Offense is real basic. The key is who is going to play the best defense. The winner is the guy who is going to make that one stop when the game is on the line."

So where all that limitless strategy you kept talking about, where are all the infinite possibilites? Not only that, seems to me like you dont know anything about madden...


i won't even bring up the top chess players... So now... what do you have to say for yourself? Will you show a shred of shame? Or will you continue living a lie?



http://espn.go.com/espn/thelife/videogames/news/story?id=3846975 -- article

[Pinkhearts]

http://www.edinformatics.com/great_thinkers/Gary_Kasparov.jpg

http://www.aritearu.com/pic/Fischer-Spassky.jpg

http://static.ibnlive.com/pix/sitepix/05_2010/anand11052nd_630.jpg

[-playmaker-]

Those Madden challenge wiiggers they got for that show are not the best in the game at all, and just because chess players look geekier or even are geekier doesn't mean anything...


I NEVER SAID MADDEN PLAYERS ARE SMARTER THAN CHESS PLAYERS

[-playmaker-]

Most aspects of Madden don't really require much intellect to master. Why are you still trying to argue for Madden? Play calling does take intellect, but just not on the level of chess.
play calling is the only aspect that matters, not your ability to juke or spin...

And if you want to be elite it does require chess like intellect...



Not gonna keep going with this today...

[joe]

play calling is the only aspect that matters, not your ability to juke or spin...

And if you want to be elite it does require chess like intellect...



Not gonna keep going with this today...

so if you call a good play, then just put the controller down on the table.. youll win?

[OhNoTimNoSho]

Those Madden challenge wiiggers they got for that show are not the best in the game at all, and just because chess players look geekier or even are geekier doesn't mean anything...


Pretty sure they are the best of the best... from the article:


the most competitive and in-your-face video game tournament on the planet.These are the elite of the elite Madden gamers.

Sounds like the denial is finally starting to crack...


I NEVER SAID MADDEN PLAYERS ARE SMARTER THAN CHESS PLAYERS

You implied it multiple times... Since thats like the central point of your whole argument.


play calling is the only aspect that matters, not your ability to juke or spin...

And if you want to be elite it does require chess like intellect...



Not gonna keep going with this today...

You shoulda gave up like 3 days ago, you must hate me by now.

[-playmaker-]

No they aren't OhNo...just cause the article says they are doesn't mean anything...

Okay, I've been trolling you guys, there is nothing more intellectual than chess, impossible for a computer to offer more...lol

Everyone knows that...

Obviously Madden was geared toward pot heads...and they dumbed it down for that reason.

You've been trolled...gotcha



Just look at those old black an white pics of chess players...I mean duh

[N0Skillz]

:blah :blah :blah :blah :blah

[DeuceWallaces]

RTS/MMORPG>Chess