Don't worry Cleveland, you got THE best of him

[Samurai Swoosh]

The man who left you guys like a coward last summer. He's not even that guy anymore. So there really is no reason even in retrospect to be upset. He knew he was cashed, that's why he left. I implore you LeBron stans and homofags to watch these 3 videos ... and tell me he's even close to being THAT player. THAT MVP player. I will give you a hint, he's not.

This video shows the man at his absolute peak. This version of LeBron was one of the five best player's I've ever seen. Ashame he couldn't maintain that level of play going forward. 2009 Playoffs was the absolute best, most dominant version of James I have ever seen. Just watch and be enthralled with the player he was ... then compare it to even a highlight mix of his this year. It PALES in comparison.

"Detroit"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NkuocMIRh8&feature=related

"Atlanta"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH7ec1XYFgo&feature=fvwrel

"Orlando"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdVRwtxXr9w&feature=fvwrel

This is the year they absolutely had no excuse not getting to the Finals, though ..

[jb220]

You do realize that he's still by far the best player in the game right?

[Theoo's Daddy]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You do realize that he's still by far the best player in the game right?

You do realize that he's not the best player on his own team right?

[RedBlackAttack]

It's pretty clear that he's not that player anymore.

Truthfully, it seems like a LONG time ago when James played for the Cavs... It feels like a lot longer than it has actually been. So much has happened to the franchise in the last eight months, I sometimes forget what James even looked like in a Cavaliers jersey.

It is too bad that a terrific seven-year run in a city has been permanently tarnished by one ill-advised offseason, but the damage is irreversible.


I still have mixed emotions when I watch LeBron these days... Obviously, I want him to fail in the most extreme way possible. At the same time, it is sort of sad to see such a great athlete unable to beat Omar Asik off of the dribble and basically limited to being a jump shooter at the ripe old age of 26.

[Bigsmoke]

these Lebron bashing threads are REALLY getting old. If you dont like the guy then get off this dick.

[AngelEyes]

Let it go already, my god. It's been almost a year since he left.

[RedBlackAttack]

Let it go already, my god. It's been almost a year since he left.
It couldn't be any more let go.

In fact, James is the one constantly bringing up Cleveland. See his post-game presser after the Boston series as proof. I couldn't care less about James these days, aside from an outside interest of hoping he fails.

[Theoo's Daddy]

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/LeBron-8217-s-pretty-good-at-basketball-regard?urn=nba-wp3333

[Bigsmoke]

It's pretty clear that he's not that player anymore.

Truthfully, it seems like a LONG time ago when James played for the Cavs... It feels like a lot longer than it has actually been. So much has happened to the franchise in the last eight months, I sometimes forget what James even looked like in a Cavaliers jersey.

It is too bad that a terrific seven-year run in a city has been permanently tarnished by one ill-advised offseason, but the damage is irreversible.


I still have mixed emotions when I watch LeBron these days... Obviously, I want him to fail in the most extreme way possible. At the same time, it is sort of sad to see such a great athlete unable to beat Omar Asik off of the dribble and basically limited to being a jump shooter at the ripe old age of 26.

Wade is 29 with still an unreliable but he's still this "best players on the Heat".
Wade had problems getting around the Chicago bigs too when Lebron had an off game "O HE FELL OFF"

seriously, Wade and Lebron are basically putting up same numbers so isnt Wade declining too then?

[LA_Showtime]

I'd say LeBron impacts the game about 5% less than he did last season. He's still arguably the best in the game, though.

I do wonder why he's declined so rapidly. He's noticeably less explosive than he was at the beginning of the year.

[DMAVS41]

I'd say LeBron impacts the game about 5% less than he did last season. He's still arguably the best in the game, though.

I do wonder why he's declined so rapidly. He's noticeably less explosive than he was at the beginning of the year.

Yep.

Its funny. I think this is actually a good sign for Lebron. I do think he should either lose weight or get his big ass into the post. He has to make a decision this off season about those things.

But its very clear that Lebron has declined athletically....but he still is playing great all around ball and this was arguably his best defensive year yet.

If he continues to improve his game, I think Lebron's next 7 years could be extremely productive. He just has to get a post game with his back to the basket and he has to develop even more of a wing post face up game. There is no reason why Lebron can't turn and face on the wing post and just raise up with jumpers time and time again. he has all the skill to do that and he'll have plenty of space with defenders sagging off.

i've actually been very impressed with lebron's game this year. and anyone saying he hasn't lost a step is not watching these games or never really saw him on the cavs. its a pretty big difference.

[Bigsmoke]

What?

His jumper is as good or better than LeBrons ..

Smoke alot of LeBron pole, much Bigsmoke?

:oldlol:

Wade is 29 and is still quick enough to get to the rim

If Lebron couldnt shoot nor can not get to the rim anymore then he wouldnt be averaging 25ppg in the playoffs idiot.

their stats are pretty much the same but i guess Lebron is getting worse and Wade is just playing with more help.

[OldSchoolBBall]

So what are current theories about why Bron has lost some explosiveness/quickness off the dribble? Is it only added weight or what?

[RedBlackAttack]

I actually wanted to know how you, and real Cleveland fans feel inside when you see him play.

Honestly? I'm shocked that I ever rooted for him. He is such the antithesis of the kind of player that our town usually embraces.

But, as a player, he can still dominate games in spurts, but nothing like he did in his prime 2007-2010. I've often wondered if maybe the change of scenery and the general negative attitude toward him has impacted his play too, though.

James always seemed like the kind of guy to me that wants to be liked. Whether he attempts to embrace this villain role or not, I will never believe that it was his intention or the way he really wants things.

One thing that you notice about those highlights is how much fun he is seemingly having on the court. He played with a reckless abandon... jumping and flying around like a kid with obscene athleticism.

Does he look like he is having a lot of fun with this Heat team? At least, in the way that he looks in those videos?

I know that this has nothing to do with the fact that he can't seemingly beat Omar Asik off of the dribble these days, but it is noteworthy.

The grass is always greener on the otherside. I think James probably realizes, whether he would ever admit it or not, that he had something pretty special in Cleveland as far as being revered and having a real, home-grown affinity with the city.

[RedBlackAttack]

So what are current theories about why Bron has lost some explosiveness/quickness off the dribble? Is it only added weight or what?
Roughly 450+ games in the last five years on a frame weighing in at around 270 pounds? I think his joints have probably been worn pretty thin over the years, especially when you factor in his physical style of play and massive size. Your body can only take so much of a pounding.

[chazzy]

"Detroit"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NkuocMIRh8&feature=related

"Atlanta"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH7ec1XYFgo&feature=fvwrel

"Orlando"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdVRwtxXr9w&feature=fvwrel

I don't know how anyone can watch these videos and say he hasn't lost anything athletically this season. And no pauk, your pics of Lebron's head supposedly at the rim don't change anything.

[RedBlackAttack]

Wade is 29 with still an unreliable but he's still this "best players on the Heat".
Wade had problems getting around the Chicago bigs too when Lebron had an off game "O HE FELL OFF"

seriously, Wade and Lebron are basically putting up same numbers so isnt Wade declining too then?
You can't possibly watch him play and deduce that he is the same player -- athletically -- that he was two years ago or even last year. He doesn't have the speed or the explosiveness.... Nowhere near it.

[che guevara]

What?

His jumper is as good or better than LeBrons ..

Smoke alot of LeBron pole, much Bigsmoke?

:oldlol:

Wade is 29 and is still quick enough to get to the rim
Lebron is a much better jumpshooter than Wade. Lebron shot 45% from 16-23 feet this season, 44% from 10-15. Wade shot 37% from 16-23 and 39% from 10-15.

[Scoooter]

He's playing more defense this year. More effort, more focus, more energy defensively. It's tiring. I'm not saying that's the reason, I'm sure there are many (wear-and-tear, increased bodyweight, Dwyane Wade and CHris Bosh taking a lot of the slack, etc.), but it's probably being overlooked.

[lbj23clutch]

Great videos. :applause:



Really reminded me how much of a freak he was athletically. People say that he's declined athletically, but I just think he just hasn't played with the same amount of energy out there. It seems as if he's settled since coming to Miami. And it's really showing on the court. It's pretty unfortunate to see a once in a lifetime player like LeBron, settling in the middle of his prime. And it's likely that we will never see him play the same level from 09'-10'. Which f*cking sucks because he was so much more entertaining to watch during that time period. He was also clearly the best in the league during that time. Unfortunately we all can't say the same about today's LeBron James.

[DMAVS41]

Honestly? I'm shocked that I ever rooted for him. He is such the antithesis of the kind of player that our town usually embraces.

But, as a player, he can still dominate games in spurts, but nothing like he did in his prime 2007-2010. I've often wondered if maybe the change of scenery and the general negative attitude toward him has impacted his play too, though.

James always seemed like the kind of guy to me that wants to be liked. Whether he attempts to embrace this villain role or not, I will never believe that it was his intention or the way he really wants things.

One thing that you notice about those highlights is how much fun he is seemingly having on the court. He played with a reckless abandon... jumping and flying around like a kid with obscene athleticism.

Does he look like he is having a lot of fun with this Heat team? At least, in the way that he looks in those videos?

I know that this has nothing to do with the fact that he can't seemingly beat Omar Asik off of the dribble these days, but it is noteworthy.

The grass is always greener on the otherside. I think James probably realizes, whether he would ever admit it or not, that he had something pretty special in Cleveland as far as being revered and having a real, home-grown affinity with the city.


True. But Lebron clearly cares about his legacy a lot. He wants to win and flat out Lebron was not going to win a bunch of titles with that team in Cleveland. He might not win any in Miami either, but its very clear to non Cavs fans that Lebron had to leave if he wanted to challenge for multiple titles.

That team was old and built poorly and Cleveland is far from a free agent destination.

To your point, I just don't think Lebron leaves if the Cavs had found a way to bring in an elite player at some point. No way Lebron leaves if the Cavs gave him Pau Gasol or Amare or some other top 15 or so player.

He left because he felt he couldn't win with the team he had in Cleveland. Right or wrong, thats how he felt.

[Bigsmoke]

Lebron is a much better jumpshooter than Wade. Lebron shot 45% from 16-23 feet this season, 44% from 10-15. Wade shot 37% from 16-23 and 39% from 10-15.


Dont waste your time. Samurai Swoosh is retarded.

[RedBlackAttack]

[/B]

True. But Lebron clearly cares about his legacy a lot. He wants to win and flat out Lebron was not going to win a bunch of titles with that team in Cleveland. He might not win any in Miami either, but its very clear to non Cavs fans that Lebron had to leave if he wanted to challenge for multiple titles.

That team was old and built poorly and Cleveland is far from a free agent destination.

To your point, I just don't think Lebron leaves if the Cavs had found a way to bring in an elite player at some point. No way Lebron leaves if the Cavs gave him Pau Gasol or Amare or some other top 15 or so player.

He left because he felt he couldn't win with the team he had in Cleveland. Right or wrong, thats how he felt.

I would argue that, if he really cared about his legacy, then he definitely made the wrong decision. But, that is a conversation for another thread and one that, frankly, has been beaten to death over the months... I haven't the energy to debate it now.

As to your point about him not having what he needed in Cleveland... It turns out that what he wanted was to play with Dwyane Wade. If that was his goal -- and it seems to me as though it was -- then, you are right... The Cavs were never going to be able to add that kind of piece.

All of the evidence that I have seen, though, indicates that he wasn't ever serious about building a legacy in Cleveland (ie: the lack of recruiting of his peers that he absolutely has done in Miami).

I think, in retrospect, he probably regrets not giving it a little more of a chance, as far as aiding the organization in building something a little more solid. That is all speculation on my part, obviously. He just seemed to have so much more fun here, at least on the exterior and with his play.

But, like I said... I'm fine with the way things worked out. James isn't the kind of player that I would normally root for or that the city would normally root for. We have the No. 1 and No. 4 picks in the upcoming draft and -- while there certainly is no LeBron James coming out this year -- the rebuild will begin and, hopefully, the picks will pan out.

The LeBron James era in Cleveland is LONG over and I can barely remember what it felt like to root for the guy.

[chazzy]

Stats for this season? But are you going to sit there and say LeBron is a leaps and bounds better shooter? I mean really ..
Wade's jumper fell off for a while this year, while Lebron has relied on his a lot more to compensate for his diminished attacking ability. He was in a ridiculous shooting streak post all star when he shot like 58%, with a lot of his shots being jumpers. I don't know what the numbers are for the playoffs, though.. I think Wade improved while Lebron cooled off.

[Christofire]

[/B]

True. But Lebron clearly cares about his legacy a lot. He wants to win and flat out Lebron was not going to win a bunch of titles with that team in Cleveland. He might not win any in Miami either, but its very clear to non Cavs fans that Lebron had to leave if he wanted to challenge for multiple titles.

That team was old and built poorly and Cleveland is far from a free agent destination.

To your point, I just don't think Lebron leaves if the Cavs had found a way to bring in an elite player at some point. No way Lebron leaves if the Cavs gave him Pau Gasol or Amare or some other top 15 or so player.

He left because he felt he couldn't win with the team he had in Cleveland. Right or wrong, thats how he felt.


becoming a sidekick and declining at 26 = caring about your legacy?.....

all fun and jokes aside. I hope it's just some extra fat becuase the fall off in just a year is borederline pathetic. His best offense this season literally has been the open jumpers he;s settled for. i havent seen james get around anyone in a while.

[che guevara]

Stats for this season? But are you going to sit there and say LeBron is a leaps and bounds better shooter? I mean really ..
http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=Dwyane%20Wade
http://hoopdata.com/player.aspx?name=LeBron%20James

Yes, Lebron this year was a much better jumpshooter than Wade. Wade's only had one good year shooting from midrange in his career.

[DuMa]

Heat wins game 1 and I bet you never make this thread. It's all about what have you done for me lately on this board? His style of play has changed. He no longer has to carry the offense all game long. His focus is more on playing off the ball and defense.

The only thing besides his athleticism thats changed is that he's prone to having a bad game or two, by this ridiculous standard he set for himself. As opposed to always having excellent games. Game 1 was a real stinker for bron. Worse I have seen him play since game 3 in boston last week. Other than that, never recalled a worse game like that ever. So chances are you haven't seen the absolute best from lebron

[AngelEyes]

Not the point of the thread ...

Obviously I expected the thick ones to not get it ..

IE this newbie

And Bigsmoke's dumb ass ... the man who thought LeBron paid $9.00 per 12 pack bottles of Bud Light at the Las Vegas club.

:oldlol:

Yes, I'm the thick one. I know perfectly well what the point of the thread was. The very first line in the thread was "The man who left you guys like a coward last summer" and you're telling me you're still not harking back to what happened last year. No one player deserves this much incessant vitriol. He left like a jackass. People on radio, national television, and national publications have been lambasting him for months. His reputation has been irreparably damaged. We know this. You start a thread telling Cleveland they've gotten the best of him. You know exactly what you're doing.

[DMAVS41]

I would argue that, if he really cared about his legacy, then he definitely made the wrong decision. But, that is a conversation for another thread and one that, frankly, has been beaten to death over the months... I haven't the energy to debate it now.

As to your point about him not having what he needed in Cleveland... It turns out that what he wanted was to play with Dwyane Wade. If that was his goal -- and it seems to me as though it was -- then, you are right... The Cavs were never going to be able to add that kind of piece.

All of the evidence that I have seen, though, indicates that he wasn't ever serious about building a legacy in Cleveland (ie: the lack of recruiting of his peers that he absolutely has done in Miami).

I think, in retrospect, he probably regrets not giving it a little more of a chance, as far as aiding the organization in building something a little more solid. That is all speculation on my part, obviously. He just seemed to have so much more fun here, at least on the exterior and with his play.

But, like I said... I'm fine with the way things worked out. James isn't the kind of player that I would normally root for or that the city would normally root for. We have the No. 1 and No. 4 picks in the upcoming draft and -- while there certainly is no LeBron James coming out this year -- the rebuild will begin and, hopefully, the picks will pan out.

The LeBron James era in Cleveland is LONG over and I can barely remember what it felt like to root for the guy.

Good post. I pretty much fully agree. I think Lebron does regret how he did it for sure. And I do think Lebron wishes he was loved again by much better fans in Cleveland. Lebron fed off of those crowds. Totally agree. Its absolutely tangible and has played a role.

The Heat fans do not inspire Lebron....but Wade does. So gets that confidence going because you can tell he really looks up to Wade.

I disagree about Lebron damaging his legacy by leaving. What will ultimately damage his legacy will be how he left and the team he went to. If he had gone to Chicago or New York or the Clippers and handled it well....I don't think his legacy is hurt at all. But joining up with Wade and how he did it will hurt him.

Unless......Unless. He and Wade win like 4 or 5 titles. Then Lebron's decision will be vindicated and he will be viewed much differently.

You and I also disagree on the role of players and their recruiting. Lebron never publicly went out and hated on his teammates or teams or coach or franchise. He always held them in high regard. I just don't think we have enough true information about his recruiting and stuff. He might have tried and the sentiment amongst the players he wanted to go after might have simply been that they didn't want to play in Cleveland. This generation of player is different. They want to win no doubt, but they also want to be in certain markets. Its abundantly clear at this point.

I never really liked Lebron off the court, but he's a truly special player on the court. I feel bad for both Lebron and Cavs fans. They deserved a title...possibly two. The Cavs fans were amazing and Lebron was amazing on the court. Both deserved better. The simple truth is that the Cavs had 7 years to build a great team and they didn't do it. They get an A for effort, but they made some poor moves and never were able to really get anything more than a very good team.

Its very similar to the Mavs actually. We have tried so hard, but we could never land that 2nd guy after 04. We couldn't even get Rashard Lewis in free agency and he's from Dallas and we were going after him hard. Sometimes it just doesn't happen. And it sucks for both the fans and the player.

Because there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Lebron from 07 to 10 was good enough to lead an elite team to a title. I think he has a couple rings right now and he truly would be the "KING" if the Cavs gave him a 2nd option like Gasol.

But it didn't happen and Lebron made some poor decisions in my opinion. He chose the wrong team. And thank God actually. Put Lebron on the Bulls instead of Deng (which is what it would have been) and that Bulls team is not losing.

So at least we avoided a potential 6 title run from him in the process.

[DMAVS41]

becoming a sidekick and declining at 26 = caring about your legacy?.....

all fun and jokes aside. I hope it's just some extra fat becuase the fall off in just a year is borederline pathetic. His best offense this season literally has been the open jumpers he;s settled for. i havent seen james get around anyone in a while.

i don't think Lebron looked at it like that. that was my point. i don't think lebron thought he would ever be thought of as a sidekick. lebron is a student of the game. he knows that you almost always need two great players to win.

he just totally missed the boat on how the perception of him choosing to join up would haunt him.

and not sure how you can hold him declining athletically against him. if this year is indicative of how Lebron is going to slowly age, he's going to age well. especially if he gets his lazy ass into the gym and develops a post game. he can use both hands around the rim very well and he's already an excellent passer. he just has to do it. if he doesn't, he's going to look like a fool going iso and getting shut down by just about everyone in the league in the future.

[Christofire]

Good post. I pretty much fully agree. I think Lebron does regret how he did it for sure. And I do think Lebron wishes he was loved again by much better fans in Cleveland. Lebron fed off of those crowds. Totally agree. Its absolutely tangible and has played a role.

The Heat fans do not inspire Lebron....but Wade does. So gets that confidence going because you can tell he really looks up to Wade.

I disagree about Lebron damaging his legacy by leaving. What will ultimately damage his legacy will be how he left and the team he went to. If he had gone to Chicago or New York or the Clippers and handled it well....I don't think his legacy is hurt at all. But joining up with Wade and how he did it will hurt him.

Unless......Unless. He and Wade win like 4 or 5 titles. Then Lebron's decision will be vindicated and he will be viewed much differently.

You and I also disagree on the role of players and their recruiting. Lebron never publicly went out and hated on his teammates or teams or coach or franchise. He always held them in high regard. I just don't think we have enough true information about his recruiting and stuff. He might have tried and the sentiment amongst the players he wanted to go after might have simply been that they didn't want to play in Cleveland. This generation of player is different. They want to win no doubt, but they also want to be in certain markets. Its abundantly clear at this point.

I never really liked Lebron off the court, but he's a truly special player on the court. I feel bad for both Lebron and Cavs fans. They deserved a title...possibly two. The Cavs fans were amazing and Lebron was amazing on the court. Both deserved better. The simple truth is that the Cavs had 7 years to build a great team and they didn't do it. They get an A for effort, but they made some poor moves and never were able to really get anything more than a very good team.

Its very similar to the Mavs actually. We have tried so hard, but we could never land that 2nd guy after 04. We couldn't even get Rashard Lewis in free agency and he's from Dallas and we were going after him hard. Sometimes it just doesn't happen. And it sucks for both the fans and the player.

Because there is absolutely no doubt in my mind that Lebron from 07 to 10 was good enough to lead an elite team to a title. I think he has a couple rings right now and he truly would be the "KING" if the Cavs gave him a 2nd option like Gasol.

But it didn't happen and Lebron made some poor decisions in my opinion. He chose the wrong team. And thank God actually. Put Lebron on the Bulls instead of Deng (which is what it would have been) and that Bulls team is not losing.

So at least we avoided a potential 6 title run from him in the process.


you're a fool if you seriously think that 'Check My Stats" daddy regrets anything. The guy just made history the first player to ever win a championship in the second round of the playoffs, he was obviously caught in the moment and decided to be a bit nice for once. James is a douche, that probably show sup in his stats aswell

[DMAVS41]

you're a fool if you seriously think that 'Check My Stats" daddy regrets anything. The guy just made history the first player to ever win a championship in the second round of the playoffs, he was obviously caught in the moment and decided to be a bit nice for once. James is a douche, that probably show sup in his stats aswell

what?

you aren't even addressing what we were discussing. you really don't think Lebron misses being the most loved player in the game and having the most supportive fan base in all of sports probably?

what? Lebron actually doesn't have thick skin...he may get it at some point, but its very clear he wanted to be liked.

just listen to windhorst talk about it. he said lebron would come into the lockeroom after early road games and question why teams like Memphis and Portland were booing him and hating on him.

Lebron fed off of those Cavs fans. He absolutely misses that. There is not a doubt in my mind. And everything that has come out about Lebron personally supports that view actually.

[Christofire]

i don't think Lebron looked at it like that. that was my point. i don't think lebron thought he would ever be thought of as a sidekick. lebron is a student of the game. he knows that you almost always need two great players to win.

he just totally missed the boat on how the perception of him choosing to join up would haunt him.

and not sure how you can hold him declining athletically against him. if this year is indicative of how Lebron is going to slowly age, he's going to age well. especially if he gets his lazy ass into the gym and develops a post game. he can use both hands around the rim very well and he's already an excellent passer. he just has to do it. if he doesn't, he's going to look like a fool going iso and getting shut down by just about everyone in the league in the future.
student of the game?.....if he were a student of the game he would had that jumper and that post game already, also those fundamentals. He just doesnt seem to be a guy very confident in his own ability to come through in a jam. James poise in crunch situations this season has been different his days in cleveland knowing he has wade makes being "clutch" a bit easier for him because he know he has the best player in the league on his team.

[DMAVS41]

student of the game?.....if he were a student of the game he would had that jumper and that post game already, also those fundamentals. He just doesnt seem to be a guy very confident in his own ability to come through in a jam. James poise in crunch situations this season has been different his days in cleveland knowing he has wade makes being "clutch" a bit easier for him because he know he has the best player in the league on his team.

i don't know what point you are trying to make. Lebron absolutely is a student of the game and has no bearing on his ability to make jumpers or have a post game.

and again, lebron is actually a pretty good jump shooter for a perimeter player. i don't know why people hate on him so much for that. he's been pretty damn good the last few years.

as for the the clutch stuff. Lebron was awful on game winners this year, but he was actually pretty good in crunch time overall. In cleveland, Lebron was one of the most clutch guys in the league. In fact, I can't think of a better player in crunch time...especially the playoffs....than Lebron from 06 to 10.

[Christofire]

what?

you aren't even addressing what we were discussing. you really don't think Lebron misses being the most loved player in the game and having the most supportive fan base in all of sports probably?

what? Lebron actually doesn't have thick skin...he may get it at some point, but its very clear he wanted to be liked.

just listen to windhorst talk about it. he said lebron would come into the lockeroom after early road games and question why teams like Memphis and Portland were booing him and hating on him.

Lebron fed off of those Cavs fans. He absolutely misses that. There is not a doubt in my mind. And everything that has come out about Lebron personally supports that view actually.



if you're a d*ck then be a d*ck, dont pretend to be something your not, that's all im saying. Dude apologized for nothing...it was so obviously insincere. The miami fans love him just as much as the fans in cleveland did, i dont think he's bothered one bit by how it "played" out.

[Christofire]

i don't know what point you are trying to make. Lebron absolutely is a student of the game and has no bearing on his ability to make jumpers or have a post game.

and again, lebron is actually a pretty good jump shooter for a perimeter player. i don't know why people hate on him so much for that. he's been pretty damn good the last few years.

as for the the clutch stuff. Lebron was awful on game winners this year, but he was actually pretty good in crunch time overall. In cleveland, Lebron was one of the most clutch guys in the league. In fact, I can't think of a better player in crunch time...especially the playoffs....than Lebron from 06 to 10.

when taking them on his own terms(open)....James has yet to become a consistent enough shooter to the point where you can't give him jumpshots...He struggles when he forced to shoot, or has to settle for a shot he doesn/t want.

[AngelEyes]

student of the game?.....if he were a student of the game he would had that jumper and that post game already, also those fundamentals. He just doesnt seem to be a guy very confident in his own ability to come through in a jam. James poise in crunch situations this season has been different his days in cleveland knowing he has wade makes being "clutch" a bit easier for him because he know he has the best player in the league on his team.

It's absolutely beyond me why Lebron damn James, the most physically gifted player in the league still doesn't have a consistent jump shot and a post game. He has had 8 years in the league to work on both of those aspects of the game and he still doesn't have them. The consistent jump shot would mean more to his game right now than the post op game because of his style of play, but it doesn't seem like that will ever come. As great as he is and has been, it doesn't seem like he works enough on his weaknesses. He has plenty of strengths and he has gotten even stronger over time, but if he would develop the shot and post game he would go to an entirely different level.

[DMAVS41]

if you're a d*ck then be a d*ck, dont pretend to be something your not, that's all im saying. Dude apologized for nothing...it was so obviously insincere. The miami fans love him just as much as the fans in cleveland did, i dont think he's bothered one bit by how it "played" out.

we aren't saying he regrets his decision. we are saying we think Lebron didn't fully realize what this was going to be like.

and no, Lebron does not get anywhere near the support from Miami fans as he did from Cleveland fans. I went to a couple Cavs games in the playoffs in 09 against the Magic and it was unreal the kind of support that team was getting.

I haven't been to a Heat game, but I am very confident that the crowds aren't even remotely comparable.

[che guevara]

It's absolutely beyond me why Lebron damn James, the most physically gifted player in the league still doesn't have a consistent jump shot and a post game. He has had 8 years in the league to work on both of those aspects of the game and he still doesn't have them. The consistent jump shot would mean more to his game right now than the post op game because of his style of play, but it doesn't seem like that will ever come. As great as he is and has been, it doesn't seem like he works enough on his weaknesses. He has plenty of strengths and he has gotten even stronger over time, but if he would develop the shot and post game he would go to an entirely different level.
He doens't have a post game, but his jumper has been fine the last three years, and this year, he was one of the best midrange shooters in the league.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/7360/lebrons-evolution-on-display-down-the-stretch

"
Overtime, 4:19 Remaining: The midrange shot

Brace yourself for this next statement:

LeBron James quietly turned himself into one of the best midrange shooters in the NBA this season.

According to NBA.com's StatsCube, LeBron made 45 percent of his midrange jumpers this season, which is an incredibly efficient mark for a high-usage perimeter player. Paul Pierce made 44 percent of his midrange jumpers. Kobe Bryant made 42 percent. Derrick Rose made 40 percent. Dwyane Wade, 40 percent. Kevin Durant, 42 percent. Carmelo Anthony, 42 percent.

Ray Allen shot 46 percent, barely edging out LeBron. Statistically speaking, out of all the high-usage perimeter players in the league, LeBron was the best midrange shooter not named Dirk Nowitzki (Dirk shot 53 percent -- he's a freak). "

It's a complete myth at this point that he doesn't have a jumper.

[Christofire]

It's absolutely beyond me why Lebron damn James, the most physically gifted player in the league still doesn't have a consistent jump shot and a post game. He has had 8 years in the league to work on both of those aspects of the game and he still doesn't have them. The consistent jump shot would mean more to his game right now than the post op game because of his style of play, but it doesn't seem like that will ever come. As great as he is and has been, it doesn't seem like he works enough on his weaknesses. He has plenty of strengths and he has gotten even stronger over time, but if he would develop the shot and post game he would go to an entirely different level.

Work ethic > potential.....people still rate james based on potential, but potential can't be applied to game situations.....at this point with 8 years in it seems like never going to add those things to his gmae until it's too late, and that will be when his athletic prime has withered away.

[Christofire]

He doens't have a post game, but his jumper has been fine the last three years, and this year, he was one of the best midrange shooters in the league.

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/7360/lebrons-evolution-on-display-down-the-stretch

"
Overtime, 4:19 Remaining: The midrange shot

Brace yourself for this next statement:

LeBron James quietly turned himself into one of the best midrange shooters in the NBA this season.

According to NBA.com's StatsCube, LeBron made 45 percent of his midrange jumpers this season, which is an incredibly efficient mark for a high-usage perimeter player. Paul Pierce made 44 percent of his midrange jumpers. Kobe Bryant made 42 percent. Derrick Rose made 40 percent. Dwyane Wade, 40 percent. Kevin Durant, 42 percent. Carmelo Anthony, 42 percent.

Ray Allen shot 46 percent, barely edging out LeBron. Statistically speaking, out of all the high-usage perimeter players in the league, LeBron was the best midrange shooter not named Dirk Nowitzki (Dirk shot 53 percent -- he's a freak). "

It's a complete myth at this point that he doesn't have a jumper.


OMG,,,, you again....open Jumpers..i've watched damn near every heat game this year, and james has shot most of his jumpers WIDE open becaue he's been played for the drive. It's not like he takes adn makes the types of Jumpers that guys like carmelo athony are forced into taking, being face guarded amd tightly defended etc. lets see that jumper when teams give him nothing.

[DMAVS41]

Work ethic > potential.....people still rate james based on potential, but potential can't be applied to game situations.....at this point with 8 years in it seems like never going to add those things to his gmae until it's too late, and that will be when his athletic prime has withered away.

Lebron is judged on what he's doing on the floor. He's turned into a very good jump shooter. You have no basis for your claims.

I don't care how you score your points. If you take 3.5 threes a game and still manage to shoot 51% from the field and score 27 points then you are doing something right.

He's improved so much over the last few years. You are just too much of a hater to see it.

Now he needs to get a low post and wing post game going. I have no idea if he will, but this BS about him being "lebrick" is just silly at this point.

[DMAVS41]

OMG,,,, you again....open Jumpers..i've watched damn near every heat game this year, and james has shot most of his jumpers WIDE open becaue he's been played for the drive. It's not like he takes adn makes the types of Jumpers that guys like carmelo athony are forced into taking, being face guarded amd tightly defended etc. lets see that jumper when teams give him nothing.

I hate to break it to you, but Lebron will still blow by people if they don't give him space. He's regressed athletically, but not so much that you can press up and take away all his space.

And again, Lebron makes a ton of step back jumpers.

You are just a hater. The guy has clearly improved his jumper and you still won't admit it.

27 ppg on 51% while taking 3.5 threes a game. Thats fantastic efficiency. Fantastic.

[che guevara]

OMG,,,, you again....open Jumpers..i've watched damn near every heat game this year, and james has shot most of his jumpers WIDE open becaue he's been played for the drive. It's not like he takes adn makes the types of Jumpers that guys like carmelo athony are forced into taking, being face guarded amd tightly defended etc. lets see that jumper when teams give him nothing.
No, he isn't left wide open at all. Guys aren't afraid of Wade, Melo, Rose, etc. driving, all of whom have quicker first steps? That's not how Lebron is defended at all:

LeBron James

Strengths: Athleticism, power, versatility, handle

Preferred moves: Dribble-drive, dribble and shoot.

Best defense: Crowd him. Face guard. Don

[BlueandGold]

Not the point of the thread ...

Obviously I expected the thick ones to not get it ..

IE this newbie

And Bigsmoke's dumb ass ... the man who thought LeBron paid $9.00 per 12 pack bottles of Bud Light at the Las Vegas club.

:oldlol:
Yea they are pretty retarded I can't lie. Throw Dmavs in there for good measure and you have a pretty solid special olympics team.

[Christofire]

Lebron is judged on what he's doing on the floor. He's turned into a very good jump shooter. You have no basis for your claims.

I don't care how you score your points. If you take 3.5 threes a game and still manage to shoot 51% from the field and score 27 points then you are doing something right.

He's improved so much over the last few years. You are just too much of a hater to see it.

Now he needs to get a low post and wing post game going. I have no idea if he will, but this BS about him being "lebrick" is just silly at this point.


please...the improvement in james jumper is actually a myth, his seemingly improved shot has far more to do with the fact that he's defended differently because of the presence of wade and bosh than it has to do with it actually improving. James gets open looks at jumpers....He's proving this post season what we already know and that is that he cannot shoot when open jumpers are taken away from him, because he cant shoot consistently with a defender in his space or when the defense forces him into a shot he doesn't want, the way kobe, Melo and durant can.


James improvements has been his shot release thats the only difference i see in his game since his 3rd season in the league. Thats like saying pierce became a bttter shooter when KG and Allen came, he didnt become a better shooter, he just got looks that he wasnt used to getting as the lone wolg with james it's no different.

[blablabla]

i think he is still the best player in the game

[che guevara]

please...the improvement in james jumper is actually a myth, his seemingly improved shot has far more to do with the fact that he's defended differently because of the presence of wade and bosh than it has to do with it actually improving. James gets open looks at jumpers....He's proving this post season what we already know and that is that he cannot shoot when open jumpers are taken away from him, because he cant shoot consistently with a defender in his space or when the defense forces him into a shot he doesn't want, the way kobe, Melo and durant can.


James improvements has been his shot release thats the only difference i see in his game since his 3rd season in the league. Thats like saying pierce became a bttter shooter when KG and Allen came, he didnt become a better shooter, he just got looks that he wasnt used to getting as the lone wolg with james it's no different.
That would make sense if Pierce had any statistical improvement in his shooting when KG/Ray came to the Celtics, but he didn't.

[DMAVS41]

please...the improvement in james jumper is actually a myth, his seemingly improved shot has far more to do with the fact that he's defended differently because of the presence of wade and bosh than it has to do with it actually improving. James gets open looks at jumpers....He's proving this post season what we already know and that is that he cannot shoot when open jumpers are taken away from him, because he cant shoot consistently with a defender in his space or when the defense forces him into a shot he doesn't want, the way kobe, Melo and durant can.


James improvements has been his shot release thats the only difference i see in his game since his 3rd season in the league. Thats like saying pierce became a bttter shooter when KG and Allen came, he didnt become a better shooter, he just got looks that he wasnt used to getting as the lone wolg with james it's no different.

So basically no matter what Lebron does you will hate on him. He scores 27 ppg on 51% shooting this year while taking 3.5 threes a game and its because of his teammates.

He scores 30 ppg on 50% shooting while taking 5 threes a game last year and its because he had a perfect team around him.

Just face it. Not matter what people like you will just continue to hate on him.

Just admit it. People actually even hate on him and blame him for how he played in the Magic series in 09.

Its pathetic really. Lebron if far from a perfect player, but he is actually pretty damn under-rated here by people like you.

[Benji23]

The man who left you guys like a coward last summer. He's not even that guy anymore. So there really is no reason even in retrospect to be upset. He knew he was cashed, that's why he left. I implore you LeBron stans and homofags to watch these 3 videos ... and tell me he's even close to being THAT player. THAT MVP player. I will give you a hint, he's not.

This video shows the man at his absolute peak. This version of LeBron was one of the five best player's I've ever seen. Ashame he couldn't maintain that level of play going forward. 2009 Playoffs was the absolute best, most dominant version of James I have ever seen. Just watch and be enthralled with the player he was ... then compare it to even a highlight mix of his this year. It PALES in comparison.

"Detroit"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NkuocMIRh8&feature=related

"Atlanta"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH7ec1XYFgo&feature=fvwrel

"Orlando"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdVRwtxXr9w&feature=fvwrel

This is the year they absolutely had no excuse not getting to the Finals, though ..

If Mo had of made that shot at the end of game 1 against Orlando, Lebron would still be in Cleveland.

Miss watching him dominate games like the ones in these vids.

[Sterlingsucks]

Im not saying what LBJ did was right BUT come on Owners and GM's trade players all the dang time without them knowing hell half of them probably find out through ESPN tracker. But they get off scott free? But when a player wants to leave he is criticized for it....GTFOHWTS

[jbryan1984]

Those were the days, seemed like forever ago. Non basketball fans followed the damn games!! The dude was loved here very much.

[LA_Showtime]

Yep.

Its funny. I think this is actually a good sign for Lebron. I do think he should either lose weight or get his big ass into the post. He has to make a decision this off season about those things.

But its very clear that Lebron has declined athletically....but he still is playing great all around ball and this was arguably his best defensive year yet.

If he continues to improve his game, I think Lebron's next 7 years could be extremely productive. He just has to get a post game with his back to the basket and he has to develop even more of a wing post face up game. There is no reason why Lebron can't turn and face on the wing post and just raise up with jumpers time and time again. he has all the skill to do that and he'll have plenty of space with defenders sagging off.

i've actually been very impressed with lebron's game this year. and anyone saying he hasn't lost a step is not watching these games or never really saw him on the cavs. its a pretty big difference.

Yup. I've said it before: I think LeBron's going to come back better than ever next season. I expect him to have his best season as a pro and thoroughly dominate the league. I think he'll regain his title as "easily" the best player in the league, and the Heat will have a shot at breaking the Bulls' 72-10 record.

He's already peaked athletically, but I do think if he lost 5-10 pounds he'd regain some of that quickness. That's all he needs, really. He's still ridiculously athletic. The only issue is how much weight he can actually stand to lose. It's not like he's out of shape; the man's probably at 8-10% body fat.

To DuMa: You're an idiot. No one's hating on LeBron. Yes, his game is different this year. Yes, he's still lost a step. It's obvious.

[swi7ch]

You do realize that he's not the best player on his own team right?

He finished higher in the MVP voting than Wade so how can he be not the best player on his team?

By the same logic, DRose finished higher in the MVP voting than any other Bulls player so does that mean he also is not the best player on his team?

[heyhey]

I'd say LeBron impacts the game about 5% less than he did last season. He's still arguably the best in the game, though.

I do wonder why he's declined so rapidly. He's noticeably less explosive than he was at the beginning of the year.


same reason why guys like Tyson fell off quick. they went through puberty early and had a well developed body at very young age that basically means you will deterioate quicker as well. Lebron at age 16 looked like someone in their 20s.

[gotvtec]

the dude lost a step,

[Yao Ming's Foot]

He finished higher in the MVP voting than Wade so how can he be not the best player on his team?

By the same logic, DRose finished higher in the MVP voting than any other Bulls player so does that mean he also is not the best player on his team?

Because in the playoffs you know when the games actually matter...

Wade has the higher PER
Wade has the higher usage %
Wade has the higher PPG total
Wade has the higher Win Shares/48 mins

LeBron has been Wade's sidekick by any reasonable measure

[gotvtec]

Because in the playoffs you know when the games actually matter...

Wade has the higher PER
Wade has the higher usage %
Wade has the higher PPG total
Wade has the higher Win Shares/48 mins

LeBron has been Wade's sidekick by any reasonable measure
sadly this is true.

[LA_Showtime]

same reason why guys like Tyson fell off quick. they went through puberty early and had a well developed body at very young age that basically means you will deterioate quicker as well. Lebron at age 16 looked like someone in their 20s.

That's not true at all. :oldlol: Dude, I went from 4'10 to 5'7 in one summer. Does that mean my body's going to deteriorate faster than my friend who went from like 5'11 to 6'8 in one summer? (He had a crazy growth spurt... his was from junior to senior year)

[chips93]

"Detroit"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6NkuocMIRh8&feature=related

"Atlanta"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NH7ec1XYFgo&feature=fvwrel

"Orlando"

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SdVRwtxXr9w&feature=fvwrel

This is the year they absolutely had no excuse not getting to the Finals, though ..


looking back, its amazing that with so much hype and momentum those 2009 and 2010 teams had that they never got to the conference finals. at the time lebron seemed destined to bring a title to cleveland, its jusst seemed so perfect, its just so weird to think how they lost all of that omoentum so suddenly, and were bounced so quick

[Soundwave]

looking back, its amazing that with so much hype and momentum those 2009 and 2010 teams had that they never got to the conference finals. at the time lebron seemed destined to bring a title to cleveland, its jusst seemed so perfect, its just so weird to think how they lost all of that omoentum so suddenly, and were bounced so quick

Eh, it's pretty easy for another team to make adjustments to you in a seven game series if you only have 1 guy that can create his own shot.

Even looking at those highlights though, shredding defenders 1-on-1 is not LeBron's game. Most of his dunks were in the open court and off turnovers looking at that Detroit video.

The Bulls don't allow that.

I think people forget LeBron is 6'9, not a 6'3 shooting guard, zig zagging one on one past defenders at the NBA level is tough no matter how athletic you are.

He does need to work on his post game, but Spoelstra is running a brain dead offence where no one seems to run any picks for LeBron or Wade.

[nathanjizzle]

before then he was hungry for a championship...im not sure if he still has that much hunger for one this year.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Eh, it's pretty easy for another team to make adjustments to you in a seven game series if you only have 1 guy that can create his own shot.

Even looking at those highlights though, shredding defenders 1-on-1 is not LeBron's game. Most of his dunks were in the open court and off turnovers looking at that Detroit video.

The Bulls don't allow that.

I think people forget LeBron is 6'9, not a 6'3 shooting guard, zig zagging one on one past defenders at the NBA level is tough no matter how athletic you are.

He does need to work on his post game, but Spoelstra is running a brain dead offence where no one seems to run any picks for LeBron or Wade.

Cavs didn't play any worse on offense than the Lakers against the Celtics and Magic. The difference was the defense.

[gotvtec]

before then he was hungry for a championship...im not sure if he still has that much hunger for one this year.

Lebron disapointed me this season.

[Soundwave]

Cavs didn't play any worse on offense than the Lakers against the Celtics and Magic. The difference was the defense.

The Lakers were exceptionally lucky to have beaten the Celtics, their depth clearly helped them especially in that game 7.

Cleveland simply was never that deep.

[step_back]

I think he has definately lost a step, his athletic prime has peaked but it still doesn't change the fact that he will be a top 3 player for many more years to come.

[chips93]

Eh, it's pretty easy for another team to make adjustments to you in a seven game series if you only have 1 guy that can create his own shot.

Even looking at those highlights though, shredding defenders 1-on-1 is not LeBron's game. Most of his dunks were in the open court and off turnovers looking at that Detroit video.



id really disagree, lebron in his first 7 years in the league could get to the rim whenever he wanted, i dont think any team after 07 really were able to make adjustments so stop him.

i dont think any team was ever able to stop him, the cavs offense wasnt the problem. it was that in 09 they had nobody to handle howard, and orlando had hedo and rashard, and delonte had to guard one of those guys, which was a big mismatch, because brown didnt want to lebron to expend energy having to play defense, so he guarded courtney lee. it was the cavs defense in 09, and very bad match ups with orlando that cost them. lebron averaged like 35/8/8, so they didnt find any wawy to slow him down.

in 2010, well it looked like the cavs were the better team initially, but well never really know what happened.

[Ruutu]

Lebron seems to be more mature on the field and looks like it dosent suite to his game...he used to fool around and enjoy every moment of it...but now he has so much to prove and he feels it, its effecting his game and maibe that causes the stress which leads eating more...and there comes the weight problem :D :D

[chips93]

Wade has the higher Win Shares/48 mins

LeBron has been Wade's sidekick by any reasonable measure


would you mind explaining how winshares are calculated?

[Yao Ming's Foot]

The Lakers were exceptionally lucky to have beaten the Celtics, their depth clearly helped them especially in that game 7.

Cleveland simply was never that deep.

What depth? Who are you talking about?

[Soundwave]

What depth? Who are you talking about?

Who won game 7 for the Lakers? It sure as f-ck wasn't Kobe Bryant.

Gasol > old ass Shaq
Odom > 34 year old Jamison
Bynum > Illgauskas
Artest > Mo Williams (oooooverrated).

At least last year (Artest declined this season, but that should've been made up for by Barnes).

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Who won game 7 for the Lakers? It sure as f-ck wasn't Kobe Bryant.

Gasol > old ass Shaq
Odom > 34 year old Jamison
Bynum > Illgauskas
Artest > Mo Williams (oooooverrated).

At least last year (Artest declined this season, but that should've been made up for by Barnes).

Their defense won Game 7, which is exactly what I said.

It sure as hell wasn't their "depth". Odom put 7 pts and 7 rebounds with Bynum's starter minutes and the rest of their amazing depth scored 2 points combined.

[kaiiu]

Why Are These Tony Allen Fans...i Mean Jordan Fans Turning This Into A Kobe Team Vs Lebron Team Debate?

[Soundwave]

Their defense won Game 7, which is exactly what I said.

It sure as hell wasn't their "depth". Odom put 7 pts and 7 rebounds with Bynum's starter minutes and the rest of their amazing depth scored 2 points combined.

Artest hit a lot of big shots.

That sure as hell wouldn't happen for LeBron.

In playoff basketball the scoring generally does go down, it's harder to get baskets, which is what made shutting Cleveland down easy.

You cannot win a best of 7 series when you only have 1 guy capable of creating his own shot.

See the Celtics getting trounced this year by the Heat versus them being able to shut down the Cavs last year, "more athletic" LeBron and all.

[DRose.IS.da.MAN]

LeBron is not the player he used to be, but he's still good, not as good as before.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Artest hit a lot of big shots.

That sure as hell wouldn't happen for LeBron.

In playoff basketball the scoring generally does go down, it's harder to get baskets, which is what made shutting Cleveland down easy.

You cannot win a best of 7 series when you only have 1 guy capable of creating his own shot.

See the Celtics getting trounced this year by the Heat versus them being able to shut down the Cavs last year, "more athletic" LeBron and all.

Artest was 7 for 18. :oldlol:

The Cavs did not get shut down any more than the Lakers. Look at the numbers. Its a myth. The Lakers defense just played better. Do you not remember the Magic raining threes on LeBron over and over and over again?

[Soundwave]

Artest was 7 for 18. :oldlol:

The Cavs did not get shut down any more than the Lakers. Look at the numbers. Its a myth. The Lakers defense just played better. Do you not remember the Magic raining threes on LeBron over and over and over again?

You're look too much at numbers.

It's important to look at which team can make a shot at a key moment in a game. WHEN you make shots can be as important as which shots you make. Can you make a basket when the other team is making a 10-0 run? Can you hit a shot when it's 88-88?

You're going to have tight/low scoring games in the playoffs, especially in the East, that's just going to happen to anyone.

The issue with the Cavs is in a 7 game series it was easy to shut them down, especially in those moments where they badly needed a score, because no one else but LeBron could generate any of their own offence.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

You're look too much at numbers.

It's important to look at which team can make a shot at a key moment in a game. WHEN you make shots can be as important as which shots you make. Can you make a basket when the other team is making a 10-0 run? Can you hit a shot when it's 88-88?

You're going to have tight/low scoring games in the playoffs, especially in the East, that's just going to happen to anyone.

The issue with the Cavs is in a 7 game series it was easy to shut them down, especially in those moments where they badly needed a score, because no one else but LeBron could generate any of their own offence.

You are not looking at any numbers. You are just making things up as you go along. There is nothing inherently about LeBron's supporting cast in Cleveland that would have made them unable to hit "clutch shots" and certainly given the highly publicized nature of the Heat's failings in the clutch adding Wade and Bosh to the team has done absolutely nothing to solve the problem that never existed in the first place.

[Soundwave]

You are not looking at any numbers. You are just making things up as you go along. There is nothing inherently about LeBron's supporting cast in Cleveland that would have made them unable to hit "clutch shots" and certainly given the highly publicized nature of the Heat's failings in the clutch adding Wade and Bosh to the team has done absolutely nothing to solve the problem that never existed in the first place.

Sure there is, hitting a shot in a pressure situation is a lot friggin' harder that hitting a shot when it's all loosey goosey. Basketball is not a computer simulation played by numbers.

The Cavs with LeBron were an easy team to shut down in a 7 game series, because no one else sure as hell was going to burn you for collapsing on LeBron.

When you leaned on them, they would shut down and you could collapse all LeBron all day and night without worry.

If there isn't a difference how come the Celtics got their ass handed to them this year by the Heat? A little different when you have to guard LeBron and Wade and Bosh all at once and they all can create their own offence/make timely baskets.

And no way was Kendrick Perkins going to stop all that.

[Sarcastic]

Lebron is just as good, if not better than ever before. The only reason his production may be down this year is due to fewer touches because of playing with Wade/Bosh, and different spacing on the floor due to those guys as well. If they played Lebron-ball in Miami, you would see him able to duplicate his Cleveland level athleticism.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

Sure there is, hitting a shot in a pressure situation is a lot friggin' harder that hitting a shot when it's all loosey goosey. Basketball is not a computer simulation played by numbers.

The Cavs with LeBron were an easy team to shut down in a 7 game series, because no one else sure as hell was going to burn you for collapsing on LeBron.

When you leaned on them, they would shut down and you could collapse all LeBron all day and night without worry.

If there isn't a difference how come the Celtics got their ass handed to them this year by the Heat? A little different when you have to guard LeBron and Wade and Bosh all at once and they all can create their own offence/make timely baskets.

And no way was Kendrick Perkins going to stop all that.

A couple of timely shots from an overall inefficient player isn't going to save you when you give up 120 points on 55% shooting.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201005110CLE.html

[Soundwave]

A couple of timely shots from an overall inefficient player isn't going to save you when you give up 120 points on 55% shooting.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201005110CLE.html

Defense is part of depth too.

Who would you rather try and score against -- Ron Artest or Mo Williams?

It was easy to pick apart holes and deficiencies in the Cavs offensively and defensively when you have a 7-game series to break them down.

It's also much easier to score points when you aren't expending as much energy on defence because the other team only has 1 guy you really have to worry about killing you.

Again look at the Celtics overall looked much more tired against the Heat this year because they had to worry about multiple threats defensively at all times.

[gilalizard]

Let it go already, my god. It's been almost a year since he left.


It's part of his legacy, so it will be discussed FOREVER.

Get used to it.

[Indian guy]

Most players maintain the most amount of athleticism till at least 28 / 29.

That's not true at all. Scientifically, your body's peak in athletics is pre-25. Nobody at 28/29 is what they were at 23. In basketball everyone's body peaks between 22-25. You lose something after that. Problem with LeBron isn't that he's no longer in his athletic prime, it's that he's lost more than just 'something'. He's lost A LOT. And that doesn't make any sense for someone who's only 26, even with all that mileage.

[Indian guy]

So what are current theories about why Bron has lost some explosiveness/quickness off the dribble? Is it only added weight or what?

Thing is, he doesn't look that much bigger than he was last year. So it can't all just be weight. I think he's flat out declining. His playing style at his weight all those years was simply too much for his body. And he's played a ridiculous amount of basketball since coming into the league.

[kaiiu]

dude is not ANY biggers than he was the last 5 years. If any thing is slowing him its all the damn partying in South Beach and mileage for all his unnecessary dunks in his career.

[GOBB]

Honestly? I'm shocked that I ever rooted for him. He is such the antithesis of the kind of player that our town usually embraces.

He made the Cavs relevant. He had the Cavs winning games. He was one of the leagues most entertaining and explosive talents. Carried a supporting cast of tuna cans to the NBA Finals, had Cavs win 60+ twice (66 being highest). I'm not shocked you rooted for Lebron. I'm shocked you are shocked you did. The success he brought to that city was huge. Cavs may never come across a talent like him for a long time.

[Noble6-AC45]

Cleveland welcome to another decade of irrelevance


sorry had to do it

[donald_trump]

its funny.

people complained about him pounding the ball too much. now he plays off the ball more and is in a much more sharing type of system.

people complained about him not having a jump shot. now he has one, and is one of the best in the league from midrange.

people claimed he needed to refine his game and stop relying on athleticism. well, apparently according to some hes not the athlete he once was, and yet he still has his best shooting season despite it. clearly hes refined his game.


here comes the hilarious bit.
all these comments made in the past, and now fans want him to revert back to what he was. wasnt that exactly what you were complaining about?

[flipogb]

26-28 is your prime because you are still athletic (not as much as before tho) while having added many new skills to your game. basically while older the player has perfected his game

LeBron is less athletic than he was but hasn't added too many skills

so he looks worse

[flipogb]

people complained about him not having a jump shot. now he has one, and is one of the best in the league from midrange.


still ugly

[Soundwave]

dude is not ANY biggers than he was the last 5 years. If any thing is slowing him its all the damn partying in South Beach and mileage for all his unnecessary dunks in his career.

The partying angle may make some sense.

I just don't buy a guy at age 26 can lose that much athleticism in 1-2 years unless an injury is a factor.

Unless of course he's really not 26 .... lol.

[tpols]

its funny.

people complained about him pounding the ball too much. now he plays off the ball more and is in a much more sharing type of system.

people complained about him not having a jump shot. now he has one, and is one of the best in the league from midrange.

people claimed he needed to refine his game and stop relying on athleticism. well, apparently according to some hes not the athlete he once was, and yet he still has his best shooting season despite it. clearly hes refined his game.


here comes the hilarious bit.
all these comments made in the past, and now fans want him to revert back to what he was. wasnt that exactly what you were complaining about?
No one was complaining about his athleticism. They were complaining about him hogging the ball and dribbling for 20 seconds of every shotclock.

And no one expected his athletic decline to come so quick. He really doesn't have the same open court speed or first step he had in cleveland.

[kaiiu]

The partying angle may make some sense.

I just don't buy a guy at age 26 can lose that much athleticism in 1-2 years unless an injury is a factor.

Unless of course he's really not 26 .... lol.
all of those power dunks and hard landings can take effect on your knees. Not to mention the bulldozing he does. Why do u think Wade is still just as effective going to the rim as he was in 06 or MJ was in 93. They didnt dunk unnecessarily and they used more crossovers and splitting of double teams to get to the rim easier.

[Soundwave]

all of those power dunks and hard landings can take effect on your knees. Not to mention the bulldozing he does. Why do u think Wade is still just as effective going to the rim as he was in 06 or MJ was in 93. They didnt dunk unnecessarily and they used more crossovers and splitting of double teams to get to the rim easier.

To be honest I don't think blowing by defenders was ever really LeBron's game to begin with.

People forget he's 6'9, not 6'6 or 6'4 like Jordan and Wade, huuuuuuuge difference.

Most of his dunks in Cleveland were open floor jams or break downs in the other teams defence.

To be honest he never really was much of a "get to the rim and dunk over anyone in your way" type player ala young Jordan/Vince Carter either.

This is why when I saw him play in high school/early NBA days I never bought into the Jordan comparisons, because his style of game was never really "Jordan-like". It was always more like a rich man's Grant Hill crossed with a little bit of Magic Johnson.

[kaiiu]

To be honest I don't think blowing by defenders was ever really LeBron's game to begin with.

People forget he's 6'9, not 6'6 or 6'4 like Jordan and Wade, huuuuuuuge difference.

Most of his dunks in Cleveland were open floor jams or break downs in the other teams defence.

To be honest he never really was much of a "get to the rim and dunk over anyone in your way" type player ala young Jordan/Vince Carter either.
03-08 dude was great at dunking in the halfcourt. I dont think he has that ability anymore.

[tpols]

To be honest I don't think blowing by defenders was ever really LeBron's game to begin with.

People forget he's 6'9, not 6'6 or 6'4 like Jordan and Wade, huuuuuuuge difference.

Most of his dunks in Cleveland were open floor jams or break downs in the other teams defence.

To be honest he never really was much of a "get to the rim and dunk over anyone in your way" type player ala young Jordan/Vince Carter either.
Almost all facial dunks are two handed stuffs because defenders don't often step in front of a guy coming full speed at them jumping off of one foot(because they don't want to take a high knee while going up).

If you watch lebron's best dunks, EVERYONE gets out of the way. Rasheed Wallace, a skilled shotblocker and legit seven footer, was straight side stepping and not even bothering going for the block in those videos the OP posted. When a 6'9 270 guy is running at you full speed and taking off like he's doing an olympic long jump people get out of the way. Jordan and Vince don't even compare because they weren't even close to his size. Lebron generated twice the momentum.

If you were to try and stand in front though, you would probably catch a knee to the chest or neck which would be very dangerous. No one wants to fvck with that.

[Soundwave]

03-08 dude was great at dunking in the halfcourt. I dont think he has that ability anymore.

Perhaps he doesn't want to expend that kind of energy any more either.

It's not like he can't dunk anymore.

[donald_trump]

No one was complaining about his athleticism. They were complaining about him hogging the ball and dribbling for 20 seconds of every shotclock.

And no one expected his athletic decline to come so quick. He really doesn't have the same open court speed or first step he had in cleveland.

based on what?
since his shots went down while coming to miami, his percentage of shots attempted at the ring hasn't faltered. its still in that 31-33% range of his total shots attempted, which it has been over the last 4-5 years for him.

anyone can point to specific examples where hes lost athleticism. though you can do the opposite too.
he didnt look slow getting around pierce and getting the layup. he didnt look nonathletic ramming home that final dunk against boston. two footed from the dotted circle.

[tpols]

based on what?
since his shots went down while coming to miami, his percentage of shots attempted at the ring hasn't faltered. its still in that 31-33% range of his total shots attempted, which it has been over the last 4-5 years for him.

anyone can point to specific examples where hes lost athleticism. though you can do the opposite too.
he didnt look slow getting around pierce and getting the layup. he didnt look nonathletic ramming home that final dunk against boston. two footed from the dotted circle.
Dude.. if you watch those videos again that the OP posted, he clearly isn't breaking defenses down like he used to.

It could be because he's taken on a more team oriented role by operating out of high post a lot, but I'm still surprised we haven't seen any blow bys for ridiculous slams.

And as far as your at the rim stats goes I'd like to see if that was true and if he was making them at the same clip/getting to the line as much.

And no ones saying he's not athletic anymore. He's still one of the most athletic in the league.. but not the freak he used to be.

[Phong]

he didnt look slow getting around pierce and getting the layup.Are you seriously basing your opinion of LeBron's speed on how fast he's compared to Pierce?

2 years ago Pierce couldn't even keep up with Joakim Noah on the open court.

[sh0wtime]

He was a one man army in Cleveland, thats the only difference. Which means it was more highlights, points, assists, rebounds, blocks, steals, triple doubles etc. For him to do that now would mean to alienate Wade & Bosh completely, he has obviously come to a stage in his career where he doesnt care about individual aspects of the game anymore at all and rightfully so as there really is nothing more he can prove, he only wants championships right now. He is still the same player, but with a different mindset.

[Papaya Petee]

26\7\7 on 51% with good defense while playing with Dwyane Wade is not the best of him? Wow, that just shows how good he really is.

[NBASTATMAN]

He was a one man army in Cleveland, thats the only difference. Which means it was more highlights, points, assists, rebounds, blocks, steals, triple doubles etc. For him to do that now would mean to alienate Wade & Bosh completely, he has obviously come to a stage in his career where he doesnt care about individual aspects of the game anymore at all and rightfully so as there really is nothing more he can prove, he only wants championships right now. He is still the same player, but with a different mindset.


Not sure if he is still the same player.. That 2009 version of Lebron is no longer available to the current lebron.. He just doesn't have that kind of lift when he attacks the rim. He has developed a nice midrange game and that has helped him from declining but he can't explode to the rim anymore.. It's evident when guys that he once posterized are now blocking his shots..

[flipogb]

Are you seriously basing your opinion of LeBron's speed on how fast he's compared to Pierce?

2 years ago Pierce couldn't even keep up with Joakim Noah on the open court.
thats like being impressed that Iverson can get around Fisher

[Rasheed1]

Let it go already, my god. It's been almost a year since he left.


Its sad. Mofos looking for the bright side of things..


"Hey, at least he isnt the same player":rockon:

^c'mon... this stuff should be beneath any self respecting fan

[ThickassGlasses]

LeBron is still easily a top 3 player in the NBA. His jumper is 10x better than it was
in 09, but I really think the extra 25lbs he has put on for this year have killed him.

I'd much rather have 09 LeBron, but I'm not sure this years LeBron is really worse
he just plays different.

[allabouthawks]

look how fast he is at 0:10 on the detroit video wtf

[WadeBronDonJuan]

You haters of LeBron spend more time talking about him than anything else in the NBA. You secretly love him. Why spend some much time talking about a guy you despise?

Lebron is still the most talked about NBA player and its because of you haters.

[Soundwave]

:hammerhead: Hmmmm

[Bigsmoke]

You haters of LeBron spend more time talking about him than anything else in the NBA. You secretly love him. Why spend some much time talking about a guy you despise?

Lebron is still the most talked about NBA player and its because of you haters.

this

[LBJMVP]

:hammerhead: Hmmmm

look at the highlights on the first page and look at tonights highlights. he has indeed lost a step. i noticed on a fast break tonight d-rose was jogging and james was sprinting and they were dead even and lebron barely layed it up to top it.

[gotvtec]

look at the highlights on the first page and look at tonights highlights. he has indeed lost a step. i noticed on a fast break tonight d-rose was jogging and james was sprinting and they were dead even and lebron barely layed it up to top it.
Sadly he did. It's just the extra weight

[LBJMVP]

and he is still the best player in the nba.

[Bigsmoke]

I guess Derrick Rose lost some athleticism too huh. :rolleyes:

[Bigsmoke]

25.8ppg/7.8RPG/6.6APG/2.4SPG/1.8BPG

[Human Error]

The man who left you guys like a coward last summer. He's not even that guy anymore.
:facepalm

[Hoopz2332]

LBj = best in the game

overall impact is still unmatched

[Magic Vinsanity]

You do realize that he's still by far the best player in the game right?

No, that would be Dwight Howard.

[Bigsmoke]

No, that would be Dwight Howard.


u have to love Dwight's turnovers in the playoffs.

I can name 20 players in history that I would pick over Dwight but not over LeBron

[BlackJoker23]

u have to love Dwight's turnovers in the playoffs.

I can name 20 players in history that I would pick over Dwight but not over LeBron
lmao. dwight 3 assists and 33 turnovers against the hawks.

[Hoopz2332]

lmao. dwight 3 assists and 33 turnovers against the hawks.

:eek: :oldlol: