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View Full Version : Knicks To Select Dontas Montiejunas



NewYorkNoPicks
05-19-2011, 08:57 PM
D'Antoni wants this guy. And as usual Walsh will do whatever Mike D'Antoni asks him to do (e.g. Jordan Hill :facepalm)

Anyone euro fans know about this guy? Supposedly he's like Bargnani?


Let's hope he's not the next Tskishvilli (sp?)

Yung D-Will
05-19-2011, 09:01 PM
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=158724

DRoseOwnsACamry
05-19-2011, 09:04 PM
Donatas Motiejunas > Bargnani.

What's with these horrible NBA comparisons?

NewYorkNoPicks
05-19-2011, 09:07 PM
Donatas Motiejunas > Bargnani.

What's with these horrible NBA comparisons?

Well even if he was just = to Bargnani I'd be extremely pleased with the pick (on the Knicks).

It'd be interesting, we could put Amare at the 5 for stretches and throw Dontas in at the 4 to draw out the opposing teams power foward.

Can he actually handle the ball or is he like Pat Garrity/Raef LaFrentz

MeLO MvP 15
05-19-2011, 09:08 PM
I hope so... as much as we need a back up PG and C, this guy is legit and really become a good player if he hits the weight room. (And considering the talent level of this draft, is there too much difference from someone we get in the second round via bought pick than at #17?)

But I can't see him falling out of the lottery.

NewYorkNoPicks
05-19-2011, 09:09 PM
I hope so... as much as we need a back up PG and C, this guy is legit and really become a good player if he hits the weight room. (And considering the talent level of this draft, is there too much difference from someone we get in the second round via bought pick than at #17?)

But I can't see him falling out of the lottery.

nbadraft.net has him at #16, I don't think Philly would select him.

DStebb716
05-19-2011, 09:11 PM
If they can find a way into the top five, then maybe.

NewYorkNoPicks
05-19-2011, 09:13 PM
If they can find a way into the top five, then maybe.

thats where experts saw him over a year ago.

Things can change in a heartbeat....remember Channing Frye was projected like 24th then he had a good close to his college career and good workouts ended up 7th

kaiiu
05-19-2011, 09:13 PM
when are the knicks picking?

NuggetsFan
05-19-2011, 09:15 PM
Isn't he projected to be a versatile 7 footer, with perimeter skills? Scoring being his main asset. Why you'd want to surround Melo|Amare with that is beyond me. I'd be looking for tough gritty defensive first guy's who rebounds the ball.

Everything I read is that he compares to AB. Why would you even want AB on the Knicks? That would basically solidify that the Knicks were going with the out score the opponent first, play defense second Mike D style of play. It would do wonders for Melo|Amare offensively but not the way to make serious noise.

I dunno much about him tho. Just what I read, and what I read seems to be the opposite of what the Knicks should do imo.

TaLvsCuaL
05-19-2011, 09:15 PM
Knicks need Biyombo. :lol

NewYorkNoPicks
05-19-2011, 09:16 PM
when are the knicks picking?

17

NewYorkNoPicks
05-19-2011, 09:18 PM
Isn't he projected to be a versatile 7 footer, with perimeter skills? Scoring being his main asset. Why you'd want to surround Melo|Amare with that is beyond me. I'd be looking for tough gritty defensive first guy's who rebounds the ball.

Everything I read is that he compares to AB. Why would you even want AB on the Knicks? That would basically solidify that the Knicks were going with the out score the opponent first, play defense second Mike D style of play. It would do wonders for Melo|Amare offensively but not the way to make serious noise.

I dunno much about him tho. Just what I read, and what I read seems to be the opposite of what the Knicks should do imo.

Mike D'Antoni is going to go down in flames doing it his own way till the bitter end. I agree this is not what we need...but if he's Bargnani-esque he'd be very useful on this team.

Rekindled
05-19-2011, 09:19 PM
he is not gonn drop that far

MeLO MvP 15
05-19-2011, 09:19 PM
Knicks need Biyombo. :lol
Tell me about it. He'd be perfect, but like Montiejunas... he's most likely out of our range...

But every year some lottery picks fall really far. Think about how Alabi and Whiteside were supposed to be lotto pick last year (Alabi almost didn't get drafted and Whiteside was a 2nd rounder). IMO, if anyone falls it could be Biyombo because of all the questions about his age. Personally, I don't care if he's 26 or 18, I would go crazy if he was there at 17 and the Knicks didn't pick him.

fatboy11
05-19-2011, 09:20 PM
Knicks should look at Markieff Morris if he drops to #17. NBA body and wouldn't have to worry about scoring too much.

NuggetsFan
05-19-2011, 09:21 PM
Mike D'Antoni is going to go down in flames doing it his own way till the bitter end. I agree this is not what we need...but if he's Bargnani-esque he'd be very useful on this team.

True enough. If NY is sticking it out with Mike D, defensive|rebounding players aren't really going to be needed. A player projected to be like AB however would fit nice into that style of play.

Faberg
05-19-2011, 09:25 PM
No way he drops that low.

Sicknote
05-19-2011, 09:27 PM
I'm more worried about how any new players will fit into D'Antoni's 8 man rotation, it's very very possible whoever we pick may just rot on the bench anyway.

iDunk
05-19-2011, 09:29 PM
I don't know about him, I'm torn.

He'd be perfect for our system, but his desire worries me and also the fact that he can be Bargnani #2 is worrisome as well.

He's a fantastic offensive player for a 20 year old, yet his defense is lacking and that's been a problem for the Knicks last season.

MeLO MvP 15
05-19-2011, 09:32 PM
I'm more worried about how any new players will fit into D'Antoni's 8 man rotation, it's very very possible whoever we pick may just rot on the bench anyway.
Oh I couldn't agree more. D'Antoni usually never plays rookies (3 exceptions are Fields, Joe Johnson and Gallo... and that's b/c they're all rly good) and without any job security D'Antoni isn't going to waste time developing some kid when he could put in a veteran in his place.

That being said, there are a couple of players in our range right now that I could see D'Antoni playing big minutes (like Jimmer, Biyombo, Montiejunas, Faired, Markeiff Morris and some other guys)

Borat_Sagdyev
05-19-2011, 09:33 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFqK-YXlsHs
He's perfect in offense, but lazy in defense.
Today in Italy play offs Donatas scores 21 in first half (7/8 fgm-a)
http://195.56.77.208/game/?id=64395

Borat_Sagdyev
05-19-2011, 09:36 PM
btw he's Motiejunas, not MoNtiejunas

Blue&Orange
05-19-2011, 10:02 PM
No way he drops that low.
the above

LosBulls
05-19-2011, 10:18 PM
Dude is a beast..

bagelred
05-19-2011, 10:20 PM
The Knicks should forget about need, and pick the best player available. Then they can use the pick plus Billups expirer to get players they want.

Like...I suggested.......Verajao and Sessions.

G-train
05-19-2011, 10:31 PM
Motiejunas is not as good as Anthony Randolph.
Knicks should try to draft a PG, team him with Toney Douglas, trade Billups expirer for size.

G-train
05-19-2011, 10:32 PM
The Knicks should forget about need, and pick the best player available. Then they can use the pick plus Billups expirer to get players they want.

Like...I suggested.......Verajao and Sessions.

Varejeo has an ugly contract for a role player.

NewYorkNoPicks
05-19-2011, 11:25 PM
Motiejunas is not as good as Anthony Randolph.
Knicks should try to draft a PG, team him with Toney Douglas, trade Billups expirer for size.

Trading Anthony Randolph was almost as big a mistake as trading all those picks for Eddy Curry.

It was D'Antoni's call.

Walsh said when he picked 6th in 2008 it was between Randolph and Gallinari, and when he got to acquire AR he was ecstatic.

But D'Antoni didn't play him because he couldn't shoot 3's.

I hope no other team (except maybe the Heat :lol ) get infected with the D'Antoni cancer when we eventually fire him. The guy is as stubborn as they come, can only coach one way, and can't judge talent for sh!t. He's almost as destructive as Larry Brown..

FourthTenor
05-19-2011, 11:26 PM
It'd be interesting, we could put Amare at the 5 for stretches and throw Dontas in at the 4 to draw out the opposing teams power foward.



So you're not actually interested in winning, just scoring many points?

NewYorkNoPicks
05-19-2011, 11:26 PM
The Knicks should forget about need, and pick the best player available. Then they can use the pick plus Billups expirer to get players they want.

Like...I suggested.......Verajao and Sessions.

Terrible man....just terrible.

You're riding the hype train ESPN created for Varejao when LeBron was creating open looks for him.


You can find a Varejao anywhere. Sessions can ball but him and Sideshow Bob aren't worth losing a shot at Chris Paul over.

kaiiu
05-19-2011, 11:28 PM
why the hell did the knicks trade brewer and randolph? thats 2 assets right there

NewYorkNoPicks
05-19-2011, 11:30 PM
why the hell did the knicks trade brewer and randolph? thats 2 assets right there

here ill repost what i said on the 2nd page:

"Trading Anthony Randolph was almost as big a mistake as trading all those picks for Eddy Curry.

It was D'Antoni's call.

Walsh said when he picked 6th in 2008 it was between Randolph and Gallinari, and when he got to acquire AR he was ecstatic.

But D'Antoni didn't play him because he couldn't shoot 3's.

I hope no other team (except maybe the Heat ) get infected with the D'Antoni cancer when we eventually fire him. The guy is as stubborn as they come, can only coach one way, and can't judge talent for sh!t. He's almost as destructive as Larry Brown.."

RedBlackAttack
05-19-2011, 11:38 PM
Terrible man....just terrible.

You're riding the hype train ESPN created for those guys when LeBron was creating shots for them.

You can find a Varejao anywhere. Sessions can ball but him and Sideshow Bob aren't worth losing a shot at Chris Paul over.
LeBron was creating shots for Varejao? :wtf:

That is a very odd statement, considering Varejao best traits have nothing to do with scoring. He is an excellent defensive big, very athletic for his size and a very good rebounder. He is also one of the best in the league at drawing charges and getting an opponent's front-court in foul trouble. He is versatile and can play/defend either 4s or 5s.

How, exactly, did LeBron James have anything to do with that skillset? One of the biggest reasons that the Cavs were one of the best defensive teams year-in and year-out during the James era was the defensive versatility of Varejao.

He is also an excellent offensive rebounder and he'll get you a lot of extra possessions.

Sessions never even played with LeBron James, so that is obviously moot, as well.

He is a nice young combo guard... Had a month this past season where he averaged 20 points and 10 assists on 50+% from the field. Even with Baron Davis cutting significantly into his minutes during the second half of the season, Sessions finished with a career high season average of 13+ points and 5+ assists on 47% from the field (excellent efficiency for a perimeter player).

Sessions and Varejao are both very nice commodities for the Cavs. In fact, I'm wondering what the Knicks can offer that would even make the Cavs consider trading them?

NewYorkNoPicks
05-19-2011, 11:41 PM
LeBron was creating shots for Varejao? :wtf:

That is a very odd statement, considering Varejao best traits have nothing to do with scoring. He is an excellent defensive big, very athletic for his size and a very good rebounder. He is also one of the best in the league at drawing charges and getting an opponent's front-court in foul trouble. He is versatile and can play/defend either 4s or 5s.

How, exactly, did LeBron James have anything to do with that skillset? One of the biggest reasons that the Cavs were one of the best defensive teams year-in and year-out during the James era was the defensive versatility of Varejao.

He is also an excellent offensive rebounder and he'll get you a lot of extra possessions.

Sessions never even played with LeBron James, so that is obviously moot, as well.

He is a nice young combo guard... Had a month this past season where he averaged 20 points and 10 assists on 50+% from the field. Even with Baron Davis cutting significantly into his minutes during the second half of the season, Sessions finished with a career high season average of 13+ points and 5+ assists on 47% from the field (excellent efficiency for a perimeter player).

Sessions and Varejao are both very nice commodities for the Cavs. In fact, I'm wondering what the Knicks can offer that would even make the Cavs consider trading them?

not going to read all that especially since I know I'm correct.


But for your sake I'll word it better: creating open lanes for Varejao to finish around the rim.

RedBlackAttack
05-19-2011, 11:42 PM
The Knicks should forget about need, and pick the best player available. Then they can use the pick plus Billups expirer to get players they want.

Like...I suggested.......Verajao and Sessions.
What are you giving up for Varejao and Sessions?

NewYorkNoPicks
05-19-2011, 11:44 PM
What are you giving up for Varejao and Sessions?

Absolutely nothing.

We're not wasting next years $15 mill in cap room over a bench player/energy guy, and a starting calibur but middle of the road point guard

kaiiu
05-19-2011, 11:44 PM
not going to read all that especially since I know I'm correct.


But for your sake I'll word it better: creating open lanes for Varejao to finish around the rim.
u wrong bruh. Varejao was making the same cutting plays without lebron this year. Not to mention he is a better offensive player than u give him credit for. Watch his oversseas tapes and youll see. He has a decent 15 foot jumper and has a couple nice moves in the post

RedBlackAttack
05-19-2011, 11:44 PM
not going to read all that especially since I know I'm correct.


But for your sake I'll word it better: creating open lanes for Varejao to finish around the rim.
But, his game is not about scoring... Actually, it has absolutely nothing to do with scoring. And, good luck finding a 7-footer with a huge wingspan and is athletic/big enough to defend 4s/5s and give your team an incredible amount of second-chance points... as well as running the floor with guards.

You know, there are some players that offer assets other than simply putting the ball in the basket. I know it is a crazy concept, but those kind of players do actually exist.

But, don't worry... The Knicks don't have anything outside of their big two that I would even consider giving up for a tandem of Varejao/Sessions.

RedBlackAttack
05-19-2011, 11:46 PM
Absolutely nothing.
Yeah... I feel the same way.

You have nothing I would want for two quality assets. All of your intriguing pieces are now playing for Denver.

Scoooter
05-19-2011, 11:49 PM
here ill repost what i said on the 2nd page:

"Trading Anthony Randolph was almost as big a mistake as trading all those picks for Eddy Curry.

It was D'Antoni's call.

Walsh said when he picked 6th in 2008 it was between Randolph and Gallinari, and when he got to acquire AR he was ecstatic.

But D'Antoni didn't play him because he couldn't shoot 3's.

I hope no other team (except maybe the Heat ) get infected with the D'Antoni cancer when we eventually fire him. The guy is as stubborn as they come, can only coach one way, and can't judge talent for sh!t. He's almost as destructive as Larry Brown.."
:lol

D'antoni didn't play him because he couldn't do anything. He looked like a retarded five year old when he was in a Knicks uniform. Played himself completely out of the rotation. Good riddance to that idiot.

NewYorkNoPicks
05-19-2011, 11:49 PM
But, his game is not about scoring... Actually, it has absolutely nothing to do with scoring. And, good luck finding a 7-footer with a huge wingspan and is athletic/big enough to defend 4s/5s and give your team an incredible amount of second-chance points... as well as running the floor with guards.

You know, there are some players that offer assets other than simply putting the ball in the basket. I know it is a crazy concept, but those kind of players do actually exist.

But, don't worry... The Knicks don't have anything outside of their big two that I would even consider giving up for a tandem of Varejao/Sessions.


lmaoooo way to overrate your players. Seeing things with rose colored glasses ever since you got the 1st pick I see.

you can find an Anderson Varejao with a 2nd round pick. In fact I'd rather have Rony Turiaf than Varejao anyway.

Chill out Clevlander with your Napoleon complex

RedBlackAttack
05-19-2011, 11:51 PM
lmaoooo way to overrate your players. Seeing things with rose colored glasses ever since you got the 1st pick I see.

you can find an Anderson Varejao with a 2nd round pick. In fact I'd rather have Rony Turiaf than Varejao anyway.

Chill out Clevlander with your Napoleon complex
Yep... And you keep rating players strictly based on how many points they score. :oldlol:


Dumbass.

The fact that you would even bring up scoring when discussing Varejao's strengths shows your lack of bball knowledge.

NewYorkNoPicks
05-19-2011, 11:53 PM
:lol

D'antoni didn't play him because he couldn't do anything. He looked like a retarded five year old when he was in a Knicks uniform. Played himself completely out of the rotation. Good riddance to that idiot.

If you've ever played or coached basketball you'd know that certain players lose confidence easily, and once it's lost they play tentatively. they second guess their decisions, and play scared, with the fear of being benched at the sign of any mistake.

Also heres another flaw in a lot of Knick fans logic regarding AR:

-If the guy is 21 years old....and just a few months prior he was probably the most coveted young prospect in the league BASED ON HIS PLAY ON THE COURT NOT JUST *possible potential*....you really think he lost it all in 5 months? He's 21 not 39....

-Rod Thorn, legendary GM, praised Donnie Walsh when he acquired him noting that he personally tried to acquire AR for over 2 years to no avail.

Scoooter
05-19-2011, 11:54 PM
Varejao's not a bad player. I don't think I'd want him starting next to Amar'e, but if he's your back up center, you're probably in good shape. He killed the Knicks this year. :lol

NewYorkNoPicks
05-19-2011, 11:55 PM
Yep... And you keep rating players strictly based on how many points they score. :oldlol:


Dumbass.

The fact that you would even bring up scoring when discussing Varejao's strengths shows your lack of bball knowledge.

My point was he looked BETTER with LeBron there.

We have an intangible guy on our team too...2x rookie of the month Landry Fields...maybe you've heard of him.

Intangibles are valuable but not at the cost of losing out on Chris Paul. And if you were a GM who chose Varejao over Paul....you'd get fired in an instant.

Be objective, not subjective and biased.

G-train
05-19-2011, 11:57 PM
No doubt Varejao has valuable attributes, I just wouldn't pay him that much when its possible to get a cheaper alternative who can fill the 4/5 hustle guy.
I dont wanna pay a 33 year old 9m for hustle in 2014, especially given injury history.

Clutch
05-19-2011, 11:58 PM
It'd be interesting, we could put Amare at the 5 for stretches and throw Dontas in at the 4 to draw out the opposing teams power foward.

That's great strategy because we have so many players that can attack the rim
Wait a second...
Billups-slow chucker
Fields-can't drive
Melo-he can attack the basket but it isn't his main weapon
Motiejunas- outside
Amare-became a shooter.

Let's throw their whole team out so we can shoot even more contested threes :lol

God,just give us a new coach and a solid center and we will be fine.
I'm not asking for Dwight,I just want a regular center.
You know,guy who can defend and rebound and not some weak ass who will get pushed around and be a liability on defense and rebounding.

NewYorkNoPicks
05-19-2011, 11:59 PM
No doubt Varejao has valuable attributes, I just wouldn't pay him that much when its possible to get a cheaper alternative who can fill the 4/5 hustle guy.
I dont wanna pay a 33 year old 9m for hustle in 2014, especially given injury history.

exactlyyyyyy

RedBlackAttack
05-20-2011, 12:02 AM
My point was he looked BETTER with LeBron there.

We have an intangible guy on our team too...2x rookie of the month Landry Fields...maybe you've heard of him.

Intangibles are valuable but not at the cost of losing out on Chris Paul. And if you were a GM who chose Varejao over Paul....you'd get fired in an instant.

Be objective, not subjective and biased.
Listen, I am the one being objective... You are the one being biased.

Go tell any GM or serious basketball fan about how Rony Turiaf is better than Anderson Varejao and watch them laugh in your face.

And, having a Landry Fields is nice, but he is a perimeter player, while Varejao is a big...

Is Fields going to be giving you hard-nosed defense, rebounding and second chance opportunities against both big and athletic frontcourts?

I'm not saying Anderson Varejao is the second-coming, but he is a good player with a combination of size, athleticism and versatility that is difficult to find in this league. He would be a very nice piece for a contending team.

He also has a nice contract. There is really nothing not to like about what Varejao offers.

Scoooter
05-20-2011, 12:02 AM
If you've ever played or coached basketball you'd know that certain players lose confidence easily, and once it's lost they play tentatively. they second guess their decisions, and play scared, with the fear of being benched at the sign of any mistake.
Yeah, those kinds of guys usually don't do well in the Garden. At least he gets to tear it up in Minnesota for a bit, fellin' good and accomplishing nothing. No pressure. Nice life.


Also heres another flaw in a lot of Knick fans logic regarding AR:

-If the guy is 21 years old....and just a few months prior he was probably the most coveted young prospect in the league BASED ON HIS PLAY ON THE COURT NOT JUST *possible potential*....you really think he lost it all in 5 months? He's 21 not 39....

-Rod Thorn, legendary GM, praised Donnie Walsh when he acquired him noting that he personally tried to acquire AR for over 2 years to no avail.
I was excited when we got him too. But then I saw him play, and this :rockon: turned to this :wtf: and then to this :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm .

He actually looked like he was coming around a bit towards the All-Star break, and that was cool, but they needed to trade him to make the Melo deal happen, didn't they?

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter though. If the Knicks don't win a championship in the next five seasons - and let's face it, that's probably a good bet - it won't be because they traded away that idiot.

NewYorkNoPicks
05-20-2011, 12:02 AM
That's great strategy because we have so many players that can attack the rim
Wait a second...
Billups-slow chucker
Fields-can't drive
Melo-he can attack the basket but it isn't his main weapon
Motiejunas- outside
Amare-became a shooter.

Let's throw their whole team out so we can shoot even more contested threes :lol

Yeah I thought about our roster after I said that. We definitely do need a slasher...haven't had one for a while.

Fields can do it. He's extremely underutilized....really great ball handler for his position. I don't know what his problem was toward the end of the season, but we need to run more plays for him rather than having him stand around like Mike did with Gallinari.

NewYorkNoPicks
05-20-2011, 12:04 AM
Yeah, those kinds of guys usually don't do well in the Garden. At least he gets to tear it up in Minnesota for a bit, fellin' good and accomplishing nothing. No pressure. Nice life.


I was excited when we got him too. But then I saw him play, and this :rockon: turned to this :wtf: and then to this :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm .

He actually looked like he was coming around a bit towards the All-Star break, and that was cool, but they needed to trade him to make the Melo deal happen, didn't they?

At the end of the day, it doesn't really matter though. If the Knicks don't win a championship in the next five seasons - and let's face it, that's probably a good bet - it won't be because they traded away that idiot.


Well I'll tell you one thing...we could've use him against the Celtics. His length, athleticism, and shot blocking ability would've made Pierce a mortal.

RedBlackAttack
05-20-2011, 12:06 AM
No doubt Varejao has valuable attributes, I just wouldn't pay him that much when its possible to get a cheaper alternative who can fill the 4/5 hustle guy.
I dont wanna pay a 33 year old 9m for hustle in 2014, especially given injury history.
First of all, he is an expirer in 2014 with a TEAM OPTION for 2015. If Varejao is no longer valuable as an asset in that 2014 season, I'm sure there are a lot of teams that would like to take on his contract and simply use it as an expirer.

Secondly, it is his defensive capabilities and versatility that separates him from other 'hustle guys.' He is a very good defender and, those kind of athletic bigs who can play defense as well as get out and run the floor are at a premium in today's NBA.

Lastly, he only has been in the league for six years. As important as age (or possibly more important) is how much mileage are on your legs, joints, knees, etc. He doesn't have a ton of mileage for his age.

Scoooter
05-20-2011, 12:06 AM
Well I'll tell you one thing...we could've use him against the Celtics. His length, athleticism, and shot blocking ability would've made Pierce a mortal.
We could have used a lot of things against the Celtics.

G-train
05-20-2011, 12:08 AM
Knicks should try to get Fesenko from the Jazz. He is a FA.
Plonk his next to amare to protect the basket.

NewYorkNoPicks
05-20-2011, 12:08 AM
Listen, I am the one being objective... You are the one being biased.

Go tell any GM or serious basketball fan about how Rony Turiaf is better than Anderson Varejao and watch them laugh in your face.

And, having a Landry Fields is nice, but he is a perimeter player, while Varejao is a big...

Is Fields going to be giving you hard-nosed defense, rebounding and second chance opportunities against both big and athletic frontcourts?

I'm not saying Anderson Varejao is the second-coming, but he is a good player with a combination of size, athleticism and versatility that is difficult to find in this league. He would be a very nice piece for a contending team.

He also has a nice contract. There is really nothing not to like about what Varejao offers.

Ok but acquiring Varejao means NO CAP SPACE IN 2012!!!!

So it's either Varejao or a shot at Paul, Deron, and Dwight Howard....and you're advocating trading for Sideshow Bob.

That makes no sense

G-train
05-20-2011, 12:11 AM
First of all, he is an expirer in 2014 with a TEAM OPTION for 2015. If Varejao is no longer valuable as an asset in that 2014 season, I'm sure there are a lot of teams that would like to take on his contract and simply use it as an expirer.

Secondly, it is his defensive capabilities and versatility that separates him from other 'hustle guys.' He is a very good defender and, those kind of athletic bigs who can play defense as well as get out and run the floor are at a premium in today's NBA.

As I said he has valuable attributes. But he has a bad contract. If you want to argue that its a good contract... i dunno what to say. Meanwhile you can get a 7 foot guy to fill a rebounder/defensive role for 3-5m per season, someone who is younger even.
Sure he may not be an elite defensive presence as Andy V is, but he will be enough to fill a role and at a good price.

RedBlackAttack
05-20-2011, 12:12 AM
Ok but acquiring Varejao means NO CAP SPACE IN 2012!!!!

So it's either Varejao or a shot at Paul, Deron, and Dwight Howard....and you're advocating trading for Sideshow Bob.

That makes no sense
That's all you had to say.... And, I don't disagree with you.

My two points, though, were:

A. Even if the Knicks did want Varejao, what would they have to offer. Let's speak hypothetically, now. I realize that you don't want the trade, but for the team to even entertain the idea, you would need to have pieces that the Cavs would want. It isn't like he is a free agent.

and

B. Comparing Varejao to a Rony Turiaf is ridiculous. You don't have to want him on your team to rate him correctly.

G-train
05-20-2011, 12:14 AM
Lastly, he only has been in the league for six years. As important as age (or possibly more important) is how much mileage are on your legs, joints, knees, etc. He doesn't have a ton of mileage for his age.

Well I still wouldn't trade for that long term deal until I see how he returns from his ruptured right peroneal longus tendon.

RedBlackAttack
05-20-2011, 12:14 AM
As I said he has valuable attributes. But he has a bad contract. If you want to argue that its a good contract... i dunno what to say. Meanwhile you can get a 7 foot guy to fill a rebounder/defensive role for 3-5m per season, someone who is younger even.
Sure he may not be an elite defensive presence as Andy V is, but he will be enough to fill a role and at a good price.
I just don't think $7m for a 7-foot defensive specialist who can run the floor is a bad contract. You aren't getting that for $3-5m.

I think you are underestimating his value, especially as a Heat fan. He is literally exactly what you need... A bigger more athletic and younger version of Udonis Haslem... And you saw what his return did for your team.

G-train
05-20-2011, 12:15 AM
He played 6 years of Euro ball too.

RedBlackAttack
05-20-2011, 12:18 AM
Well I still wouldn't trade for that long term deal until I see how he returns from his ruptured right peroneal longus tendon.
We'll see how he looks this year... But, I don't think it matters a ton, because the Cavs aren't really pushing to trade him. He is one of the bright spots on the roster.

RedBlackAttack
05-20-2011, 12:19 AM
He played 6 years of Euro ball too.
Euro ball is not the grind that is the NBA... We both know this.

G-train
05-20-2011, 12:25 AM
I just don't think $7m for a 7-foot defensive specialist who can run the floor is a bad contract. You aren't getting that for $3-5m.

I think you are underestimating his value, especially as a Heat fan. He is literally exactly what you need... A bigger more athletic version of Udonis Haslem... And you saw what his return did for your team.

I believe this off season you can get a solid centre for that price, someone younger and without long term deal.

I dont believe he was worth 6 years 42 m. Especially not now to trade for it at the tail end.

There are some similarities to Haslem, but some key differences.
1. what heat paid for him.
2. he has better offensive skills.
3. he has stronger mental and physical toughness. > Warrior mentality.
4. udonis is more athletic for mine - stronger, faster and a higher leaper.

G-train
05-20-2011, 12:26 AM
Euro ball is not the grind that is the NBA... We both know this.
I know, but I was just pointing out he has played for while.

RedBlackAttack
05-20-2011, 12:44 AM
I believe this off season you can get a solid centre for that price, someone younger and without long term deal.

I dont believe he was worth 6 years 42 m. Especially not now to trade for it at the tail end.

There are some similarities to Haslem, but some key differences.
1. what heat paid for him.
2. he has better offensive skills.
3. he has stronger mental and physical toughness. > Warrior mentality.
4. udonis is more athletic for mine - stronger, faster and a higher leaper.

1. It wasn't really a 6-year deal, though, because the last year is a team option. The Cavs can decide whether or not they are going to pay him for that final year and, if they were to trade him, that team could decide whether or not to pay him.

That was a 5-year deal with a team option... Very important to point that out.

2. We don't know how he is going to look this coming year, but he was playing the best basketball of his career for 31 games prior to the injury... Averaging more points, rebounds and blocks than he ever had on 53% from the field plus playing stellar defense.

We will see how he does coming off of the injury, but I have no reason to believe that his play is going to be any different from where he left it in the first half of the year.

Obviously, he is a complimentary piece, so he needs talent around him in order to be on a winning team and he didn't have that last year. But, that doesn't mean that his play should be discounted.

3. I'd like to see the list of players as good as Varejao that you are going to get for $3-5m next year that offer his skillset.

4. Not sure how you deduced Haslem is tougher than Varejao... Both are guys that have relied on toughness throughout their careers. Varejao is also good at getting under opponents' skin. I've seen him frustrate the hell out of guys.

5. The fact that Varejao offers what he offers at 7-foot and is younger makes the comparison to Haslem in favor of Andy, at least right now.

Anderson is, what? 29 years old? With six years in the league? Let's not act like he is ancient, here. There was a time when NBA players really didn't start declining until their mid-30s. That timeline changed with the influx of high school kids and young foreign players that had logged 12 years in the NBA by the time they hit 30, but Varejao is not one of those.

His timeline is probably going to be like that of past generations, when guys were just getting their NBA careers started at 23.

6. This is all moot, anyway, because I don't want the Cavs to trade Varejao -- unless it is the right deal -- and I don't think that they want to trade Varejao.

NewYorkNoPicks
05-20-2011, 01:41 AM
That's all you had to say.... And, I don't disagree with you.

My two points, though, were:

A. Even if the Knicks did want Varejao, what would they have to offer. Let's speak hypothetically, now. I realize that you don't want the trade, but for the team to even entertain the idea, you would need to have pieces that the Cavs would want. It isn't like he is a free agent.

and

B. Comparing Varejao to a Rony Turiaf is ridiculous. You don't have to want him on your team to rate him correctly.

Landry Fields has more value than Varejao

RedBlackAttack
05-20-2011, 03:34 AM
Landry Fields has more value than Varejao
You are impossible to even have a semi-intelligent conversation with.

What the f#ck difference does that make, even if it were true? They play two totally different positions and have completely different roles. :hammerhead:

NewYorkNoPicks
05-20-2011, 05:04 AM
You are impossible to even have a semi-intelligent conversation with.

What the f#ck difference does that make, even if it were true? They play two totally different positions and have completely different roles. :hammerhead:

You said earlier there's nothing on the Knicks that had enough value to acquire Varejao aside from Carmelo and Amare.

Fields is more valuable around the league than Anderson... so we do have other assets.

blablabla
05-20-2011, 08:31 AM
i would like to see biyombo or faried or donatas
and darius morris

madmax
05-20-2011, 09:48 AM
Motiejunas is a very dynamic scorer and I completely understand D'Antoni and his motives for having him - he'd fit perfectly within high paced Knicks offense. Not to mention his post game is already automatic and he is abusing his euro competition lately. He is a combination of Bargnani and Gasol offensively:applause:

bagelred
05-20-2011, 10:37 AM
Landry Fields has more value than Varejao

Wrong.

Sakkreth
05-20-2011, 11:47 AM
If he's not picked when it's turn for NY, then why not ?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFqK-YXlsHs

el gringos
05-20-2011, 01:39 PM
Isn't he projected to be a versatile 7 footer, with perimeter skills? Scoring being his main asset. Why you'd want to surround Melo|Amare with that is beyond me. I'd be looking for tough gritty defensive first guy's who rebounds the ball.

Everything I read is that he compares to AB. Why would you even want AB on the Knicks? That would basically solidify that the Knicks were going with the out score the opponent first, play defense second Mike D style of play. It would do wonders for Melo|Amare offensively but not the way to make serious noise.

I dunno much about him tho. Just what I read, and what I read seems to be the opposite of what the Knicks should do imo.
this is why its tough to try to talk basketball with some of the nugget fans on ish- this post shows you dont understand the game. If you have Carmelo you need a 4 to stretch the floor, and motiejunas would be a great fit. Imagine Carmelo and Amare in more 1 on 1's or 2 on 2's- Un stoppable
............
those saying to add a non offensive option dont understand the importance of floor spacing, esp w Carmelo as a power 3- put a dalembert or a kenyon Martin on the floor with Carmelo and you are taking away from your greatest strength- the knicks should strive to be the best offensive team in the league and work on defense from there, not make offense harder and expect that one guy will change a teams defense

swi7ch
05-20-2011, 03:04 PM
Looks like the next 'skita! :oldlol:

NewYorkNoPicks
05-20-2011, 03:13 PM
Wrong.

When comparing players other than stars....young and potential beats older and established 9 times out of 10.

remember when Kobe was almost traded for Deng?

we already know what Varejao is, and is worth (certainly not his contract btw)...but Fields at the earlier part of the yera was compared to John Havlichek by other gms (me personally I'd say current Grant Hill)...so yeah

HaNdLe ThE RoCk
05-20-2011, 03:47 PM
Landry Fields has more value than Varejao

you gotta be kidding me :facepalm

allabouthawks
05-20-2011, 04:01 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IFqK-YXlsHs
He's perfect in offense, but lazy in defense.
Today in Italy play offs Donatas scores 21 in first half (7/8 fgm-a)
http://195.56.77.208/game/?id=64395

fast break at 1:50 was sick lol

NewYorkNoPicks
05-20-2011, 06:04 PM
you gotta be kidding me :facepalm

First half of the season Landry Fields wasn't worth more around the league than Anderson Varejao?

YOU have got to be kidding me.

Scoooter
05-20-2011, 06:17 PM
Fields came back down to Earth in a big way.

NewYorkNoPicks
05-20-2011, 06:34 PM
Fields came back down to Earth in a big way.

well Mike D'Antfailure isn't that good at developing players... he made Gallinari stand on the 3 point line most of the game and didn't run too many plays for him...he did the same with Fields.

Fields is an excellent ball handler...he needs to have plays ran for him rather than be relegated as a spot up shooter.

It''s also a confidence issue and needing to not defer to Carmelo even when good scoring opportunities present themself for him. Nothing that can't be fixed.

Scoooter
05-20-2011, 06:57 PM
well Mike D'Antfailure isn't that good at developing players... he made Gallinari stand on the 3 point line most of the game and didn't run too many plays for him...he did the same with Fields.

Fields is an excellent ball handler...he needs to have plays ran for him rather than be relegated as a spot up shooter.

It''s also a confidence issue and needing to not defer to Carmelo even when good scoring opportunities present themself for him. Nothing that can't be fixed.
It's not like D'Antoni came in at midseason. Fields place on the team changed. The spacing was different, the ball movement was different. Melo catching the ball and then holding onto it for 12 seconds before he makes a predictable move doesn't exactly make for a balanced offense. He needs to work on his spot up shooting, because that's basically what he's going to be getting.

LJJ
05-20-2011, 07:29 PM
I just don't think $7m for a 7-foot defensive specialist who can run the floor is a bad contract. You aren't getting that for $3-5m.

I think you are underestimating his value, especially as a Heat fan. He is literally exactly what you need... A bigger more athletic and younger version of Udonis Haslem... And you saw what his return did for your team.

My bullshit detector is going off the charts right now.

First of all, Varejao is owed 25,2 million over the next three seasons which is significantly more than 7 million a year.

Secondly: defensive specialist? Defensive specialist?! Are you fukcing kidding me? :roll:

His defense is pretty weak. He's a below average and generally weak rebounder. He can run the floor relatively well because he's light, weak and not actually 7 feet tall.

I think you are mistaking the term "defensive specialist" for "hustle player". A defensive specialist is someone who is not good at offense but elite on defense. A hustle player is someone who can't do anything will but provides decent energy and effort. Which describes Varejao more accurately?

And he is horribly overpaid. To compare: Kwame Brown had a pretty Varejao-esque season this year, and Kwame was earning the minimum. Vaj is doing decent on the boards because the Cavs have no one else.