Who do you think is THE most over rated player in the league?

[FourthTenor]

I think its a tie between Carmelo and Kobe.

Guys who shoot difficult shots - despite it being of little importance to the actual team - always mesmerize the fans into thinking thats what makes a good basketball player.

I'm not saying these guys arent good or valuable. But what they do compared to what guys like Howard, Bron, Paul, Dirk and others do is way less important.


This isn't an agenda thread, despite the fact that my two choices happen to be polarizing players. I truly believe they are the two most overrated, and I'm curious who makes everyone elses list?

[TylerOO]

not sure if srs.. easily Kobrick

[jb220]

No one's acting like Melo is top 5 like they are with Kobe.

Both are top 10 though pretty easily.

I'd say Derrick Rose, people are saying he's top 5:lol

[JMT]

Anthony. Does only one thing consistently well, has never shown the ability to lead a team in the post season, and is supposedly in his prime.

Worst of all, he has the ability to do the other things he should like rebound, defend and pass, but simply doesn't put any effort into it.

Bryant's best days are behind him. People who still rank him higher than younger guys are the ones at fault due to their own lack of understanding of the game.

[FourthTenor]

Of course it seems like Russell Westbrick wants to throw his hat into the ring for this one.

[Mach_3]

Well between those two, seeing as how much more popular Kobe is, i'd have to go with Kobe

[TylerOO]

Anthony. Does only one thing consistently well, has never shown the ability to lead a team in the post season, and is supposedly in his prime.

Worst of all, he has the ability to do the other things he should like rebound, defend and pass, but simply doesn't put any effort into it.

Are you serious!!?!?!?! He had 17 rebounds in one game!! In the playoffs!!!!


/sarcasm

[swi7ch]

Kobe

First of all, a lot of ppl think he is just as good as the GOAT (Jordan) even though time and time again, Kobe has proven that he will QUIT on his team!

Secondly, a lot of ppl still think Kobe is in his prime and can carry the Lakers even though he has showed all throughout the year that he has lost a lot of step... especially in the playoffs.

Thirdly, all-NBA first team (over DWade)? Clearly overrated right there and going purely based on past reputation.

[Patrick Chewing]

LeBrick

[FourthTenor]

Well between those two, seeing as how much more popular Kobe is, i'd have to go with Kobe


Doesn't have to be between those two, I just personally had those guys at a tie.

[Rysio]

Ummm kobe's the best closer in the game. if he's overrated then everyone is.

[mlh1981]

Carmelo Anthony. A very good player, and dynamic scorer but a step below elite, in my opinion. Doesn't have an overall excellent game. Can be a big contributor to a good team, but if he's your absolute best player/franchise face, then you are a step shy of elite.

[shaq's--lakers]

Chris Bosh and Carlos Boozer

[tpols]

Kobe averaged 25/5/5 on 49% eFG.

For comparison sake, Wade averaged 26/5/6 on 52% eFG. They have identical numbers except wade has 3% higher efficiency. Kobe's efficiency is still very good at 49%. Michael Jordan averaged this efficiency for his career.

Wade has played half the minutes of kobe and is still in his prime while kobe is not. Kobe also takes a lot more jumpshots, yet his efficiency is only 3% below Wade's, and wade is one of the most efficient guards of all time.

Joke thread:roll:

[LebronGOAT]

Kobe and Rose easily.

[FourthTenor]

Chris Bosh and Carlos Boozer

Well how theyve played compared to how coveted they were last offseason I'd say thats a good point, but right now I don't think too many people are over rating them.

[jb220]

Anthony. Does only one thing consistently well, has never shown the ability to lead a team in the post season, and is supposedly in his prime.

Worst of all, he has the ability to do the other things he should like rebound, defend and pass, but simply doesn't put any effort into it.
Melo is a great scorer and rebounder(for his position), he led the best team he's ever had to the WCF but just ran into the Lakers.

He's definitely below average/average defensively and passing wise he's pretty solid actually(played well in his pointforward role with the Knicks with Billups was out)

People love to hate on Melo for some reason(not saying you are) I think it's because of that incident against the Knicks when he slapped some random player. Melos really grown since then, he's only overrated if you think he's top 5. I think he's top 10 pretty easily.

[FourthTenor]

Kobe averaged 25/5/5 on 49% eFG.

For comparison sake, Wade averaged 26/5/6 on 52% eFG. They have identical numbers except wade has 3% higher efficiency. Kobe's efficiency is still very good at 49%. Michael Jordan averaged this efficiency for his career.

Wade has played half the minutes of kobe and is still in his prime while kobe is not. Kobe also takes a lot more jumpshots, yet his efficiency is only 3% below Wade's, and wade is one of the most efficient guards of all time.

Joke thread:roll:

Wade is good on defense which is a huge part of the game, in addition to being more efficient on offense as a scorer and a better passer as well.

But can I ask you something.

Why is Kobe so special to you? Do you have some sort of bond with him where you'd rather defend him than just speak honestly about the league and basketball in general. You have some special connection to Kobe that when someone legitimately passes him in ability you'd rather cover your ears and eyes and sing "lalalala" rather than just admit it?

I dont understand this sentiment. Why do people have agendas for certain players? Don't you like the sport itself the most or are you really that infatuated with Kobe Bryant?

[Scoooter]

Kobe. Very questionable ball i.q. Scores a lot of points, but takes a lot of shots to do it (shots he doesn't have to take). Basically has never really done anything without great team mates carrying the lion's share of the load. When he was forced to carry a team the way guys like Nowitzki and LeBron have done, he's either not made the playoffs or lost in the first round. Convincingly. When he does have great team mates, he either rides them to championships or, on the occasions when they don't play up to snuff, he flames out dramatically without copping any blame (Game 6, 2008 Finals; Game 4, 2011 WCSF). Not as clutch as the hype would suggest, not as good a defender, not as versatile a scorer. Not much of a passer, even when he tries to be. Has arguably never been the best player in the NBA. Destructive ego. Etc.

[Nevaeh]

Ummm kobe's the best closer in the game. if he's overrated then everyone is.

No Kidding. When he was ready for his team's Playoff run to end, he ended it as a Leader in emphatic fashion (getting swept). That's how you close sh!t out when you don't want another 3-peat for your team. :cheers:

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Kobe averaged 25/5/5 on 49% eFG.

For comparison sake, Wade averaged 26/5/6 on 52% eFG. They have identical numbers except wade has 3% higher efficiency. Kobe's efficiency is still very good at 49%. Michael Jordan averaged this efficiency for his career.

Wade has played half the minutes of kobe and is still in his prime while kobe is not. Kobe also takes a lot more jumpshots, yet his efficiency is only 3% below Wade's, and wade is one of the most efficient guards of all time.

Joke thread:roll:

^^^this guy brought some real info.
I think most folks now realize that, at 33 years of age and about the same NBA mileage as MJ when he retired, Kobe is not the elite player he once was. Top 10? yes, and that is fairly remarkable at his age.
I would not say he is over rated.

Melo perhaps.
Its hard to say... I don't see a lot of over-rating out there right now.

[tpols]

Wade is good on defense which is a huge part of the game, in addition to being more efficient on offense as a scorer and a better passer as well.

But can I ask you something.

Better Passing? Kobe averaged more assists this year.:oldlol:

And he plays in a system that stresses the extra pass unlike miami's freelance system.

Wade obviously was the better defender. As players get older they start to lose that part of their game. I guarantee you wade wont be locking people down in his 15th season either.

As far as scoring goes, look up the clutch stats. Kobe BLOWS wade out of the water. It's not even close. Kobe is a more effective scorer with the game on the line and he had just as big an impact offensively for lakers as wade did offensively for the heat.

You treat kobe like another 'pop star', a fake player who gets by on hype. You think you play the role of the unbiased spectator who puts everyone else into place but your reality is just as distorted as theirs. You just cant admit it.

Kobe is regarded as an all time great by every intelligent poster on this forum so whose really wrong here? You're no better than the ashbellies or hulks that run this forum.

[Mach_3]

Doesn't have to be between those two, I just personally had those guys at a tie.

In that case i'd have to go with Rose slightly edging out Kobe. I like the kid, i really do, but his stan's are starting to make him unbearable :facepalm

[KOLBCTEW]

Rose, Kobe and maybe Durant


Better Passing? Kobe averaged more assists this year.:oldlol:

And he plays in a system that stresses the extra pass unlike miami's freelance system.
Wade had to share the ball with Lebron and you already know historically he averages more assists




As far as scoring goes, look up the clutch stats.
Clutch is relative. Some have it where it's the final few minutes of the game some the final minute some last second shots.





You treat kobe like another 'pop star', a fake player who gets by on hype. These past few years he has been getting by on hype based on his prior success.




Kobe is regarded as an all time great by every intelligent poster on this forum so whose really wrong here?
Hence the hype based on his success despite the fact his recent numbers don't warrant that.

[shaq's--lakers]

Well how theyve played compared to how coveted they were last offseason I'd say thats a good point, but right now I don't think too many people are over rating them.

Bingo

ESPN called Bosh and Boozer the 3 and 4 best Free Agents.

Meanwhile, Amare went to the WCF and dropped 42 on the Lakers

[Human Error]

Kobe and Carmelo are two most overrated players in the league. Majority of people still think Kobe is a better basketball player than LeBron and Kobe is a better defender than Wade. As for Carmelo majority of people think Carmelo is as good as Durant and Dirk Nowitzki. It's just plain disgusting.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Probably LeBron. And I say that because his versatility on offense has dramatically shrunk with his complete inability to get to the rim anymore off the dribble. Yet people are still acting as if he's this unstoppable force of nature that he used to be. It's ridiculous. He's dramatically improved his shooting, by becoming more consistent from mid-range ... but he's not even close to being as dynamic of a scorer and play maker that he was just a season ago.

[Human Error]

Probably LeBron. And I say that because his versatility on offense has dramatically shrunk with his complete inability to get to the rim anymore off the dribble. Yet people are still acting as if he's this unstoppable force of nature that he used to be. It's ridiculous. He's dramatically improved his shooting, by becoming more consistent from mid-range ... but he's not even close to being as dynamic of a scorer and play maker that he was just a season ago.
There's no problem in overrating the best player in the league.

[UtahJazzFan88]

I will agree that Kobe was pretty overrated THIS YEAR, but any other year it would be an absolute no. I didn't find him to be efficient in the regular season at all, his defense wasn't anything special. Still one of or the greatest in the game right now, but Top 5 in MVP voting? No way. The clutchness wasn't really there this year like in the past.

Joe Johnson is also overrated, Russel Westbrook was overrated.

As a Jazz fan, Devin Harris is overrated IMO.

[tpols]

Wade had to share the ball with Lebron and you already know historically he averages more assists

Kobe has to share the ball with the guys on his team too. Wade had the ball in his hands just as much as kobe did throughout the year so he had just as many opportunities to gather assists. Kobe had more in the end though.


Clutch is relative. Some have it where it's the final few minutes of the game some the final minute some last second shots.

http://www.82games.com/1011/CSORT11.HTM
Clutch may be relative, but by setting fair and workable parameters, it can be quantified to some extent. And kobe has been way, way more productive in this category for his team than wade has.

Like I said it's not close.




These past few years he has been getting by on hype based on his prior success.

Hence the hype based on his success despite the fact his recent numbers don't warrant that.
Kobe averaged 29/6/6 last postseason run.. thats why everyone was still calling him the best in the game. Those are incredible numbers.

And his regular season was very productive and efficient too. He put up 25/5/5 on limited minutes.

[widowmaker]

kobe is just slightly overrated at this point due only to his age. anyone who really watches the game has him rated about right. the issue is weather he himself will overrate himself. will he adapt his game to continue winning (because thats what he is, a winner=cant be overrated) or will he go down in a blaze of glory trying to average 30 ppg?

[bdreason]

Kobe is a great player... but 1st team ALL NBA and 1st team ALL Defense this year? :confusedshrug:



Rose has also become overrated... but that's more from the initial hype level he's getting from the "who's hot" media. Unless he wins it all this year, that hype level will fall over the summer.

[Orlando Magic]

Rose.

[Samurai Swoosh]

There's no problem in overrating the best player in the league.
Not to mention his defense being wildly overrated, after being just underrated defensively two seasons ago ...

He's clearly lost quite a few steps, and now is merely in the larger discussion of best player in the league.

He had a whopping one true season where he was the unanimous best player (2010)

In 2009, for any knowledgable fan ... Wade was right there with him ... and although he was on the decline, Kobe was still in that conversation as late as 2009. Basically making it a three way race.

And I can't sit here and emphatically call someone the best player in the league, when he might not even be the best player on his own team. That's just ludicrous.

So whether it's situational, whatever you want to draw it up to ... he's merely part of the conversation now. But it's his nut hugging stans that can't acknowledge or willing to admit the obvious decline. He's not the clear cut best player in the league. Otherwise at the end of the day, if even he felt that way ... he wouldn't have tucked his tail between his legs and went to Miami.

Flip, Game Over.

[JellyBean]

This is going to be fun.

1. Carlos Boozer.
2. Gilber Arenas
3. Jason Kidd
4. Amare Stoudamire
5. Steve Nash
6. Lebron James
7. Kobe Byrant
8. Ray Allen
9. Dwayne Wade
10. Joe Johnson
11. Vince Carter
12. Baron Davis

[Human Error]

Not to mention his defense being wildly overrated, after being just underrated defensively two seasons ago ....
What the hell, LeBron is easily one of the most versatile defenders. I don't know why you keep saying he's overrated in fact he's being underrated.

[Indian guy]

Kobe's only overrated if you still consider him Top 3. But nobody believes that. Not even his retarded fans.

I'd say the most overrated right now is LeBron. He's still widely considered the league's best player and that's simply not true.

'Melo's another very overrated player. Keeps getting called a 'superstar' and 'best scorer' when he's never produced on that level.

[Samurai Swoosh]

I'd say the most overrated right now is LeBron. He's still widely considered the league's best player and that's simply not true..
Human Error,

From the mouth of a LeBron stan.

Sincerely,

Sam Swoosh

[SCdac]

in my opinion , Howard is a candidate.... and the fact that 10 different people will jump down my throat after this post is kind of what I'm talking about.... it's not all about his offensive and rebounding numbers.... there's more to it.... in the playoffs for every 1 assist he had, he turned the ball over 10+ times and fouled somebody 8+ times. that's not good for any position and that's not all on teammates. One of the best in the league sure, but any of the top-5 players in the league can be overrated to death, it's not just him but I think being the best at his position means "best in the game" to alot of folks.

http://www.nba.com/media/india/howard_ref_091026.jpg

[Indian guy]

LeBron's D is one thing that's not overrated, actually. He's every bit as good as they say he is. Fully deserving of First Team All D.

[Samurai Swoosh]

LeBron's D is one thing that's not overrated, actually. He's every bit as good as they say he is. Fully deserving of First Team All D.
Deserving of 1st team absolutely ... I'm talking about the way people talk about him on these boards. Some shmuck named DMAVS41 called him an all-time great defender the other day. With only 3 consevutive seasons of above average defense.

:facepalm

[blaze_itt]

everyone

[NBAller]

too many fan agendas and player hard-ons out there. seriously i've never realized that just because you live ina certain area of the world you defend your side / team / player by any means possbile, even if it's putting other great players down and making lies.....pathetic if you ask me.

if i had to say a person it would be carlos boozer. he's had one good game against atlanta that i've seen where he went 8/10 or the likes......other than that he's been on the bench.

[Samurai Swoosh]

if i had to say a person it would be carlos boozer. he's had one good game against atlanta that i've seen where he went 8/10 or the likes......other than that he's been on the bench.
Dud has been horrific all year long ..

[ace23]

Kobe
Kendrick Perkins

[UwishUhadWall]

This is going to be fun.

1. Carlos Boozer.
2. Gilber Arenas
3. Jason Kidd
4. Amare Stoudamire
5. Steve Nash
6. Lebron James
7. Kobe Byrant
8. Ray Allen
9. Dwayne Wade
10. Joe Johnson
11. Vince Carter
12. Baron Davis

Lol, who the hell is rating Gilbert anything? He's an afterthought these days.

Instead of just repeating others I'm gonna name the ones on my squad: Andray Baltche and then Javale McGee.

[kaiiu]

Lebron easily

[drew222]

why do idiots think kobe's clutchness started in 06 or when they got gasol he's been the best clutch player since 2000. when they won three straight championships do you think every game was a blow out? and dwayne wade is getting overrated people say he is on kobe's peak level or bron's level and i keep asking his fans WHEN HAS ANY NBA EXEC, PLAYER OR COACH EVER SAID THAT he was the best player in the game???????????

[KOLBCTEW]

Kobe has to share the ball with the guys on his team too..None of which was arguably as good and as ball dominant as Lebron.



Wade had the ball in his hands just as much as kobe did throughout the year so he had just as many opportunities to gather assists. Kobe had more in the end though.Doubtful as he doesn't have arguably the best player in the league who also demands the ball. And you're harping on a .1% difference??




Like I said it's not close...:wtf: FG% it's only a difference of .005, Kobe also played more minutes which contributes to the number of points plus he doesn't share the ball with someone like Lebron so Kobe has the ball more.




Kobe averaged 29/6/6 last postseason run.. thats why everyone was still calling him the best in the game. Those are incredible numbers. .
Wade had better stats against the best defense in the league in the Celtics..


And his regular season was very productive and efficient too. He put up 25/5/5 on limited minutes.
And in those minutes he had more attempts than 6 of the top scorers in the league.. Only Rose had inferior efficiency.

[SinJackal]

Kobe averaged 25/5/5 on 49% eFG.

For comparison sake, Wade averaged 26/5/6 on 52% eFG. They have identical numbers except wade has 3% higher efficiency. Kobe's efficiency is still very good at 49%. Michael Jordan averaged this efficiency for his career.

Wade has played half the minutes of kobe and is still in his prime while kobe is not. Kobe also takes a lot more jumpshots, yet his efficiency is only 3% below Wade's, and wade is one of the most efficient guards of all time.

Joke thread:roll:

Jordan did not average 49% eFG%. First of all Kobe averaged .487 eFG% this year. Jordan's career average is .509%. That's a gap of 2.2%. So you're claiming a large gap of 2.2% effeciency is "the same". It isn't. And that's 2.2% with his Wizards years dragging it down. You know, the years he everaged .436 efg%?

Jordan as a Bull: .518 eFG%. 3.1% better than Kobe last year. Still the same? Not at all. I thought you were over posting fake stats? I guess not. More propaganda for tpols it seems. Hence why you didn't post Jordan's actual numbers, and just claimed it was the same, when it wasn't even close.

Sorry kid, "only" 3%, is actually a LARGE difference. I mean, T-Mac is "only" 1.7% worse than Kobe. He must still be a fantastic scorer, right? Derrick Rose's career eFG% is the same as Kobe's career eFG%. Kobe fans calling Rose a chucker are being hypocrites then, aren't they? Gilbert Arenas' career eFG% is .481, not even 1% worse than Kobe's this year. The dude's a chucker that shoots 42% from the field, but hey, it's not even 1% worse. Just as good as Kobe! Brandon Jennings, one of the most guilty chuckers in the NBA, is only 4.5% worse than Kobe. Hey, 4.5% is just 1.5% more than 3%. Close enough, right?


If "3%" is "the same", then almost every guard in the NBA is as efficient as Kobe. Too bad it isn't. 3% is a huge difference. 3% = 6 more points every 100 shots. That's not even remotely close. 48% = 96 points in 100 shots. Not bad. 51% = 102 points in 100 shots. 52% = 104 in 100 shots.

How can you possibly call that the same? It takes Kobe 3.1 more shots to get the same number of points as someone 3% better. In other words, if Kobe wants to score 30 points, he has to take 31 shots. If someone who shoots 3% better takes 31 shots, he'll have 32 points. Isn't the same.

[gengiskhan]

Looking at the All NBA First Team selection over Wade
Looking at the All Defensive First Team selection over Wade

Kobe is clearly THE most overrated player in the NBA right now. Everyone else comes 2nd.

[28renyoy]

Rose and Melo

[dyna]

Right now is Kobe..

[tpols]

Jordan did not average 49% eFG%. First of all Kobe averaged .487 eFG% this year. Jordan's career average is .509%. That's a gap of 2.2%. So you're claiming a large gap of 2.2% effeciency is "the same". It isn't. And that's 2.2% with his Wizards years dragging it down. You know, the years he everaged .436 efg%?
Where did I say that kobe and Wade's efficiencies were the same?

I wrote

Kobe averaged 25/5/5 on 49% eFG.

For comparison sake, Wade averaged 26/5/6 on 52% eFG. They have identical numbers except wade has 3% higher efficiency. Kobe's efficiency is still very good at 49%.

I said they have the same numbers as in 25/5/5 roughly equals 25/6/5.. and then I said wade was 3% more efficient. The identical part was CLEARLY comparing the 25/5/5 to the 25/6/5 because I specifically addressed the efficiency part afterwards. I clearly stated that wade was more efficient.

LOL at you writing an essay with 4 paragraphs stating the exact same thing over and over again because you were too stupid to comprehend what I wrote in the first place.:roll:

[blablabla]

on ish

affalio
serge ibaka
perkins
deandre jordan
and some others

[LA_Showtime]

Probably Kobe. Most people still think it's 5 years ago. :oldlol:

[SinJackal]

Where did I say that kobe and Wade's efficiencies were the same?

I wrote

I said they have the same numbers as in 25/5/5 roughly equals 25/6/5.. and then I said wade was 3% more efficient. The identical part was CLEARLY comparing the 25/5/5 to the 25/6/5 because I specifically addressed the efficiency part afterwards. I clearly stated that wade was more efficient.

LOL at you writing an essay with 4 paragraphs stating the exact same thing over and over again because you were too stupid to comprehend what I wrote in the first place.:roll:

Speaking of stupidity, let's review what I actually replied to.



Kobe's efficiency is still very good at 49%. Michael Jordan averaged this efficiency for his career.

You lied about Jordan's efficiency, which is what I replied to. You're always lying and posting false information. You just don't stop.

Once again you pretend something is what it isn't, so you can appear to have an argument, when you really don't. :roll: Epic failure. I kept saying Jordan even, and you think I was talking about Wade.

[tpols]

Speaking of stupidity, let's review what I actually replied to.




You lied about Jordan's efficiency, which is what I replied to.

Once again you pretend something is what it isn't, so you can appear to have an argument, when you really don't. :roll: Epic failure.
I understand that I got Jordan's efficiency wrong. I looked at his FG% instead of his eFG.

Thats besides the point though. I NEVER said that 3% doesn't matter. You wrote an essay on why it does for nothing.:roll:

[SinJackal]

I understand that I got Jordan's efficiency wrong. I looked at his FG% instead of his eFG.

Thats besides the point though. I NEVER said that 3% doesn't matter. You wrote an essay on why it does for nothing.:roll:

By claiming Jordan's efficiency was the same as Kobe's, you were indirectly saying 3% is the same. Do you really lack the common sense to know this? Sometimes, you just come off as really ignorant just to have a counter comment. Is that really worth it? :facepalm

A few paragraphs isn't an essay. It's called a post of normal length.

You wrote oute a bunch of pro-Kobe propaganda only to get your dick knocked in the dirt with factual information. Laughing over it now doesn't make you getting emasculated any less awkward. You're just making it worse now. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[HaNdLe ThE RoCk]

Rose and Melo

lol are you serious? :facepalm

please explain how d. rose is overrated... :sleeping

[JMT]

Melo is a great scorer and rebounder(for his position), he led the best team he's ever had to the WCF but just ran into the Lakers.

He's definitely below average/average defensively and passing wise he's pretty solid actually(played well in his pointforward role with the Knicks with Billups was out)

People love to hate on Melo for some reason(not saying you are) I think it's because of that incident against the Knicks when he slapped some random player. Melos really grown since then, he's only overrated if you think he's top 5. I think he's top 10 pretty easily.

No, he's not a great rebounder for his position. He's ok. Probably could be great, but we'll never know.

Why? Because, worst of all...for a professional athlete or a professional in any field...his shortcomings are directly related to lack of effort.

Your defense of him sums it up to me. Even his supporters say he doesn't play defense (which is all about effort). They cite individual stretches/seasons where he did something well. Yet he doesn't do those things well every year, every night, every possession, or even more possessions than not.

The guy has crazy talent, but doesn't deliver crazy results. He's the definition of overrated.

[tpols]

By claiming Jordan's efficiency was the same as Kobe's, you were indirectly saying 3% is the same. Do you really lack the common sense to know this? Sometimes, you just come off as really ignorant just to have a counter comment. Is that really worth it? :facepalm

Two things wrong with your post:

1) Kobe's eFG isn't 3% off from Jordan's career eFG. It's 2.1% off. It's 3% off Wade's. You clearly have the two mixed up.:oldlol:

2) I originally made a mistake on Jordan's FG. I THOUGHT it was 49% meaning it would have been the same as kobe's seeing as how kobe's is 49%. This means that I actually never said their efficiencies were the same. When I found out Jordan's was a whole 2% higher I retracted my statement and said I was wrong about Jordan.

This is why you're the laughing stock of this forum sinjacky.:lol

[Samurai Swoosh]

Probably Kobe. Most people still think it's 5 years ago. :oldlol:
Well he was the best player in the league 4 years ago (2008)

- Even though CP3 deserved MVP that season.

He was in the top three discussion 3 years ago (2009)

He was along with Wade the best playoff performer (2010)

This year is the only real season where it's ridiculous to claim Kobe's top 3 - 5.

[LA_Showtime]

Well he was the best player in the league 4 years ago (2008)

- Even though CP3 deserved MVP that season.

He was in the top three discussion 3 years ago (2009)

He was along with Wade the best playoff performer (2010)

This year is the only real season where it's ridiculous to claim Kobe's top 3 - 5.

Exactly. Which was the question. :oldlol:

I do think he's been impacting the game less and less since the 07-08 season, though.

[SinJackal]

Two things wrong with your post:

1) Kobe's eFG isn't 3% off from Jordan's career eFG. It's 2.1% off. It's 3% off Wade's. You clearly have the two mixed up.:oldlol:

2) I originally made a mistake on Jordan's FG. I THOUGHT it was 49% meaning it would have been the same as kobe's seeing as how kobe's is 49%. This means that I actually never said their efficiencies were the same. When I found out Jordan's was a whole 2% higher I retracted my statement and said I was wrong about Jordan.

This is why you're the laughing stock of this forum sinjacky.:lol

Sigh, once again, you prove your overwhelming ignorance.

1:


Jordan as a Bull: .518 eFG%. 3.1% better than Kobe last year

That's 3%. Learn to read. You once again choose to play dumb instead of own up to the fact that you are an extremely biased poster who always posts incorrect information to try and trick people into thinking you know what you're talking about, when you in fact, never do.


2: Of course you made a mistake. You always do, by posting false information. It's like your gimmick.

Try actually looking shit up before you make a fool of yourself. But I guess whenever you do look shit up, and realize you're wrong, you just post lies to try and cover that fact up. Then you try to derail the topic by changing the subject or mentioning the length of someone's post to take attention away from the lies you just had exposed.

Just stop even trying. You've failed once again. Move on to your next failure.

[catch24]

Melo. I used to think he was better than Durant, but that has changed this postseason. If KD can put on a couple lbs, build muscle mass, etc., dude will be the best offensive player in the league (his playmaking the last two series has looked better than ever too).

All that said, I can see why people say Kobe. Some of the posters here think he's still in his prime and can go '05-06 Houdini-mode on call. It's ridiculous, lol.

[ThaSwagg3r]

I want to say Dwyane Wade. I have no idea why some people think he is better than LeBron James. That is far from the truth. Wade is pretty much only being overrated because people will do whatever it takes to not give LeBron credit.

[Samurai Swoosh]

I do think he's been impacting the game less and less since the 07-08 season, though.
It's still a damn shame he wasn't named rightful back to back MVP in 2006 and 2007.

Then people want to critique him for getting the "lifetime achievment" award MVP in 2008.

When even as a Kobe fan ... in all sincerity, CP3 was the most impressive MVP caliber player that year.

But then fail to act as how he didn't get totally shafted the two years prior.

Haters.

:rolleyes:

[Samurai Swoosh]

I want to say Dwyane Wade. I have no idea why some people think he is better than LeBron James. That is far from the truth. Wade is pretty much only being overrated because people will do whatever it takes to not give LeBron credit.
No, he's pretty much at worst on LeBron's level.

[tpols]

That's 3%. Learn to read. You once again choose to play dumb instead of own up to the fact that you are an extremely biased poster who always posts incorrect information to try and trick people into thinking you know what you're talking about, when you in fact, never do.


I referenced CAREER. I explicitly said it.

Michael Jordan averaged this efficiency for his career.

YOU were the one that switched it to his efficiency as a bull.

Sinjackal with reading problems once again.
:oldlol: Just admit you're wrong dude. Dont worry I'll forgive you.

[Gallant]

Carmelo is easily the most overrated player. Denver got better without him.

[ThaSwagg3r]

No, he's pretty much at worst on LeBron's level.
:oldlol: Don't kid yourself. Wade is not better than LeBron. I can't think of anything Wade does better than LeBron except maybe attack the basket. He attacks the basket better because he is more explosive at this point. It doesn't matter though because he doesn't finish better. Wade is probably the better defender but that is because Wade is the more willing defender. Funny, because LeBron was the one that got into the all-defensive first team this season while Wade didn't get in to any of the teams this season.

[DuMa]

most overrated player on this forum
most overrated player by the media
most overrated player by his own peers
most overrated player by most fans.

yes you named it.

[SinJackal]

I referenced CAREER. I explicitly said it.

YOU were the one that switched it to his efficiency as a bull.

Sinjackal with reading problems once again.
:oldlol: Just admit you're wrong dude. Dont worry I'll forgive you.

Sigh :facepalm More tpols stupidity. Allow me to quote your own post. You are just digging the hole deeper and deeper kid.



I originally made a mistake on Jordan's FG. I THOUGHT it was 49% meaning it would have been the same as kobe's seeing as how kobe's is 49%. This means that I actually never said their efficiencies were the same. When I found out Jordan's was a whole 2% higher I retracted my statement and said I was wrong about Jordan.

The levels of shamelessness you go to to try and haphazardly win an argument know no bounds.

You didn't even look at Jordan's eFG%. You looked at his FG%, then claimed it was the same. In fact, even if you did that, you were wrong anyway. Jordan's career FG% is 1% higher than Kobe's career eFG%. So even if you did just look at that, you were still lying anyway. :roll:

But now you're pretending like you were actually referencing Jordan's eFG% in the first place, after later saying you just looked at his FG%, but now you're saying -I- switched it, when you did for now the THIRD time. :roll:

My god, this is probably the funniest flip flop I've seen since I've been on ISH. You lied, got caught, then lied and said you were looking at a different stat and confused it (in which case you would've been lying about the number anyway), then after I point this out to you to smash you again, you lie once again and say you were talking about his eFG%, even though I just quoted you saying that you didn't see that stat and were looking at another one.

Just stop tpols. You've made a fool of yourself enough for one day. :hammerhead:

[NewYorkNoPicks]

the majority of you change your opinions based on whatever you have seen most recentlly.

i've never seen a more fickle group of people.

maybe it's the whole "gimmie what i want at this very second" culture we live in these days, where cell phones can view a website, stream a film, play a song, and do anything besides scratch your ass at an instant.

what a disposable culture we live in these days, yesterday doesn't matter, a few hours ago don't matter it's all about what's going on this second.

so many of you guys are jokes....you change your mind when one player has a big game, and you haven't seen his peer in a few days.

Dirk has a big game and suddenly he's the best player. I couldn't begin to tell you how many people said he was finished and overrated at the beginning of the year.

Fkn idiots..

[TylerOO]

most overrated player on this forum
most overrated player by the media
most overrated player by his own peers
most overrated player by most fans.

yes you named it.

Must be talking about KOBRICKKKKKKKKKKKK

[Smoke117]

Probably Derrick Rose. Which is not to say he's not good, but he's certainly heralded as much better than he actually is. Then again a lot of very good players go through a phase like this where they get incredibly overrated for awhile.

[Theoo's Daddy]

Well he was the best player in the league 4 years ago (2008)

- Even though CP3 deserved MVP that season.

He was in the top three discussion 3 years ago (2009)

He was along with Wade the best playoff performer (2010)

This year is the only real season where it's ridiculous to claim Kobe's top 3 - 5.

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[Theoo's Daddy]

It's still a damn shame he wasn't named rightful back to back MVP in 2006 and 2007.

Then people want to critique him for getting the "lifetime achievment" award MVP in 2008.

When even as a Kobe fan ... in all sincerity, CP3 was the most impressive MVP caliber player that year.

But then fail to act as how he didn't get totally shafted the two years prior.

Haters.

:rolleyes:
:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[tpols]

The levels of shamelessness you go to to try and haphazardly win an argument know no bounds.

You didn't even look at Jordan's eFG%. You looked at his FG%, then claimed it was the same.

I already admitted to looking at the wrong column. You're just bringing it up again because I proved you wrong about what I initially said in my last post.:oldlol:

So you have nothing to contribute but nitpicking the one error I made that I admitted to pages ago. My point stands lol.

Sinjackal looks retarded once again. Like the tony parker-henry thread, the infamous my fists don't break thread, the countless terrible spurs threads you made this year and many, many more.

If you're going to call someone out on semantics, at least have a consistent argument. You've said the same thing in all of your posts and I debunked them one after the other. I've wasted enough time with you for the night. Peace out.:oldlol:

[tpols]

And on topic, Melo is a little overrated. Dude had a really dissapointing playoff run.

[SinJackal]

I already admitted to looking at the wrong column. You're just bringing it up again because I proved you wrong about what I initially said in my last post.:oldlol:

So you have nothing to contribute but nitpicking the one error I made that I admitted to pages ago. My point stands lol.

Sinjackal looks retarded once again. Like the tony parker-henry thread, the infamous my fists don't break thread, the countless terrible spurs threads you made this year and many, many more.

If you're going to call someone out on semantics, at least have a consistent argument. You've said the same thing in all of your posts and I debunked them one after the other. I've wasted enough time with you for the night. Peace out.:oldlol:

You didn't prove anything wrong, dipshit. You got caught in a lie, then you lied about it, then you lied again, feigned ignorance, tried changing the subject, tried talking shit, now you're lying again after I quoted your posts proving how you just lied and flip flopped. :roll:

I'm also not nitpicking "one error". In my first post, I posted the stats that you omittied (which you later tried to claim I was changing the subject by doing, lmfao), and ever since then, I have been pointing out your lies, and exposing the lies you have been saying ever since trying to cover up your epic failure.

And oh look, once again tpols, trying to cover up his overwhelming failure this thread, is trying to bring up a couple half a year old threads to change the subject away from him getting essentially swept in this thread. :roll:

Ahhh man. Then to close up, you fall back onto the 5 year old argument of, "I was right, you were wrong", despite the fact that I just dismantled every single one of your posts, and used your own quotes to expose the lies you posted immediately after.

Tpols, it looks like you can no longer even stand up in an argument against me anymore. Last time you tried, you got smashed too. Now it's not even close. You can do nothing but repeatedly lie, flip flop, and bring up old threads to even appear to be putting up a fight. It's time you retired from trolling son. You don't have it anymore. :roll: You should edit your posts now, before people see how bad you just got owned. :lol

[Hittin_Shots]

I already admitted to looking at the wrong column. You're just bringing it up again because I proved you wrong about what I initially said in my last post.:oldlol:

So you have nothing to contribute but nitpicking the one error I made that I admitted to pages ago. My point stands lol.

Sinjackal looks retarded once again. Like the tony parker-henry thread, the infamous my fists don't break thread, the countless terrible spurs threads you made this year and many, many more.

If you're going to call someone out on semantics, at least have a consistent argument. You've said the same thing in all of your posts and I debunked them one after the other. I've wasted enough time with you for the night. Peace out.:oldlol:

Lol

[FKAri]

Tough. I'm gonna go with Amare (if the consensus is that he's top 10).

mediocre D. can't take his man 1 on 1. Incredible skill set and athleticism but somehow he can't put it together.

But I might be wrong in what the consensus opinion of him on this board is.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Kobe. But not because he is overrated. But because everything has to do with Kobe. :rockon:

[Heat007]

Easily Kobe is the most overrated player in the league. And has been for quite awhile.

Who cares about PPG when you shoot more shots than anyone in the league.

Look how putrid Derrick Rose has looked in the playoffs and he is averaging 27 ppg in the playoffs. But he shoots FAR MORE SHOTS than anyone else in the playoffs by a WIDE GAP !

If the Bulls weren't such a great rebounding team getting 2nd chance pts and limiting other teams from getting 2nd chance points, the Bulls are a below average team at best without that rebounding. Just look at their below .500 record this year when other teams match them in rebounding for proof. The Bullshit Bulls lose a lot of games when they can't beat the other team in the rebounding battle or when the other team is almost tied with them for rebounding in games where the teams are almost even (just look at all their playoff games they lost and the regular season games they lost and look it up).

Just like the lakers front court had with their very good rebounding over the past few years.. Give kobe an average rebounding team where he can't shot jack, and his PPG really dips because he doesn't have the bigs to save his bacon time and time again.

Guys like Wade are just a lot better because they can be great no matter if they have the bigs or a great team.. This is why Wade totally outperformed Kobe in ALL 3 TIMES they had similar supporting casts (and you can add a 4th time when Wade destroyed Kobe's production in the olympics).. and one of the reasons Why Wade ALWAYS looks better against similar opposing teams that have really good defenses.

ALWAYS.

Guys like Kobe and Rose are totally incapable of doing what Wade did on those terrible Miami teams over the past 3 years.. TOTALLY incapable because they're not as good, for a variety of reasons.

[Ikill]

Tough. I'm gonna go with Amare (if the consensus is that he's top 10).

mediocre D. can't take his man 1 on 1. Incredible skill set and athleticism but somehow he can't put it together.

But I might be wrong in what the consensus opinion of him on this board is.
I think he's just in the top 10 at 10
Wade/Dwight/Lebron
Rose/Kobe/Durant
Melo/Dwill/Paul
Amare

Theres a few players you could maybe put above him

[Mr. Jabbar]

Easily Kobe is the most overrated player in the league. And has been for quite awhile.

Who cares about PPG when you shoot more shots than anyone in the league.

Look how putrid Derrick Rose has looked in the playoffs and he is averaging 27 ppg in the playoffs. But he shoots FAR MORE SHOTS than anyone else in the playoffs by a WIDE GAP !

If the Bulls weren't such a great rebounding team getting 2nd chance pts and limiting other teams from getting 2nd chance points, the Bulls are an average team at best without that rebounding. Just look at their .500 record this year when other teams match them in rebounding for proof.

Just like the lakers front court had with that rebounding.. Give kobe an average rebounding team where he can't shot jack, and his PPG really dips because he doesn't have the bigs to save his bacon time and time again

wow you think its kobe...im dying for not surprise :sleeping

[Mr. Jabbar]

90% of kobe fans acknowledge he is already on his decline and not top 2-3 anymore, still impressively good, i dont think thats being overrated, he is just coming to his decline after too much time at the top, other players are more deserving of the word overrated.

[Ikill]

I think he's just in the top 10 at 10
Wade/Dwight/Lebron
Rose/Kobe/Durant
Melo/Dwill/Paul
Amare

Theres a few players you could maybe put above him
**** forgot about Dirk so yeah Amare is not top 10

[iDunk]

Kendrick Perkins

I'd rather have a healthy Ronny Turiaf than him.

[Jasper]

Kobe. Very questionable ball i.q. Scores a lot of points, but takes a lot of shots to do it (shots he doesn't have to take). Basically has never really done anything without great team mates carrying the lion's share of the load. When he was forced to carry a team the way guys like Nowitzki and LeBron have done, he's either not made the playoffs or lost in the first round. Convincingly. When he does have great team mates, he either rides them to championships or, on the occasions when they don't play up to snuff, he flames out dramatically without copping any blame (Game 6, 2008 Finals; Game 4, 2011 WCSF). Not as clutch as the hype would suggest, not as good a defender, not as versatile a scorer. Not much of a passer, even when he tries to be. Has arguably never been the best player in the NBA. Destructive ego. Etc.

This is an exceptional post. Most fans see final seconds and Kobe winning a game , or denied , but even though he is a deadly shooter, his team chemistry really is horrible. Throughout his career I waited for him to become the facilitator as was MJ and it just never happened.
Any case right now in the league he is over rated but not the most ...



in my opinion , Howard is a candidate.... and the fact that 10 different people will jump down my throat after this post is kind of what I'm talking about.... it's not all about his offensive and rebounding numbers.... there's more to it.... in the playoffs for every 1 assist he had, he turned the ball over 10+ times and fouled somebody 8+ times. that's not good for any position and that's not all on teammates. One of the best in the league sure, but any of the top-5 players in the league can be overrated to death, it's not just him but I think being the best at his position means "best in the game" to alot of folks.

http://www.nba.com/media/india/howard_ref_091026.jpg

Howard is in my opinion. AS WELL
Here is why : Just because you are best at your position doesn't mean you get a free ride in regards to failing your team to go deep in the playoff's.
As physical as Howard is , I seldom ever see him taking over a game.
He learned moves from the Dream a year and two years ago , and yet at times he has become invisible. Yes he took them to the finals a couple years ago ..
but in large part based on his supporting cast.
As this current crop of PF's in the league are the best in the history of the league (yes it's a PF era , not PG's) The center position is the weakest in the league right next to SG's.
Howard is a coveted Center in free agency in a year , but if we go back to the Dream for example 2 rings and a supporting cast that was probably 15% better than the Majic's ... and yet the Majic exited fast.
IMO Howard should be scoring a ton , because in the league who could stop him :confusedshrug:

[Scholar]

I have to give the nod to Russell Westbrook. I'm not saying he isn't a great player. It just seems like his team does much better when he is a distributor instead of a scorer.

[Jasper]

I have to give the nod to Russell Westbrook. I'm not saying he isn't a great player. It just seems like his team does much better when he is a distributor instead of a scorer.

Many games this season , he carried the thunder and many fans were saying who was really the MVP , surely not Durant .
We have to remember Westbrook as well as Durant are very very young players and are still learning their trade and nitch in the league.

[Heat007]

Kobe. Very questionable ball i.q. Scores a lot of points, but takes a lot of shots to do it (shots he doesn't have to take). Basically has never really done anything without great team mates carrying the lion's share of the load. When he was forced to carry a team the way guys like Nowitzki and LeBron have done, he's either not made the playoffs or lost in the first round. Convincingly. When he does have great team mates, he either rides them to championships or, on the occasions when they don't play up to snuff, he flames out dramatically without copping any blame (Game 6, 2008 Finals; Game 4, 2011 WCSF). Not as clutch as the hype would suggest, not as good a defender, not as versatile a scorer. Not much of a passer, even when he tries to be. Has arguably never been the best player in the NBA. Destructive ego. Etc.

That right there is the best "truth post" of the week.


The one i posted on the previous page of this thread is the 2nd best and most enlightening truth post of the week.

[Jasper]

The one i posted on the previous page of this thread is the 2nd best and most enlightening truth post of the week. :D

[Rojogaqu11]

In no order.

Rondo, just a little.
Dirk right now. He's an all-time great, but just below the elite.
Joe Johnson.
Westbrook.
Pau Gasol.
Love.
Tyreke Evans.
Carmelo.
Ariza.
Kobe. Not the same player of 6 years ago trying to play the same way.
Jennings.
Boozer.
Bosh.
Bargnani.
Lebron and Wade as a duo.

[Harion]

Kobe Bryant easily. this guy is given credit for all the rings he won when quite simply other players have won it for him.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Kobe is the most overrated player in history, so I'd have to say him. However, Lebron this season and last is making a run at that title.

[catch24]

Kobe is the most overrated player in history, so I'd have to say him. However, Lebron this season and last is making a run at that title.

How or better yet WHY is Kobe the most overrated player in history? Not saying I disagree, just wondering why you believe that.

[chazzy]

How or better yet WHY is Kobe the most overrated player in history? Not saying I disagree, just wondering why you believe that.
Yeah that title goes to either Maravich or Oscar IMO

[Ikill]

Where exactly do people have Kobe ranked right now if people still think he's clearly above guys like Rose Durant Melo Dirk then i think he's overrated. Melo is not overrated he's a good scorer good rebounder decent passer but not a willing passer and can be a good defender when he wants to be he puts up 26/7/3 46% fg is that not a top 10 player. On here i would say Dwight Howard is overrated i just think he's kind of a black hole and hurts the offence as much as he helps it he needs to improve his ball handling and passing. By media and casual fans Kobe and Durant because there viewed as top 3 players who are better than Wade Dwight and Dirk.

[Indian guy]

However, Lebron this season and last is making a run at that title.

Last season? That was one of the greatest seasons in NBA history. I don't see how 30/7/9/50% + winning 62 games w/ that cast qualifies as overrated.

[kaiiu]

Last season? That was one of the greatest seasons in NBA history. I don't see how 30/7/9/50% + winning 62 games w/ that cast qualifies as overrated.
Most overrated player in history imo

[Round Mound]

Kobe

First of all, a lot of ppl think he is just as good as the GOAT (Jordan) even though time and time again, Kobe has proven that he will QUIT on his team!

Secondly, a lot of ppl still think Kobe is in his prime and can carry the Lakers even though he has showed all throughout the year that he has lost a lot of step... especially in the playoffs.

Thirdly, all-NBA first team (over DWade)? Clearly overrated right there and going purely based on past reputation.

This and also Kobe never was the best player in the game PER shows it and other stats even more. He is a Great Player a Top All Time 5 or 6 SG thats about it

[kaiiu]

who the hell cant win 60 games with Wade and Bosh in a weak East? :rolleyes:

[catch24]

Yeah that title goes to either Maravich or Oscar IMO

I'm just confused. The guy is a 5x champion, has 2x Final MVPs, one MVP and has one of the greatest peaks of all-time; never mind some of the most incredible scoring binges ever seen, #6 in all-time points, top 5 in playoff points (not sure where exactly, but he's definitely top 5), 4x scoring 30ppg+ in the postseason (and another two scoring 29ppg), and so on and so forth. His resume is amazing yet he's 'the most overrated player today' and 'gets carried by his teammates'. Doubt anyone can list ONE postseason he got carried post-Shaq. I'll wait.

[BarberSchool]

Rondo or Bynum
People talk about them like they're top tier perennial all stars.
I agree with D'Antoni, let's see hoW ROndo does in Charlotte or somefu@#kingwhere.

[Scoooter]

Tough. I'm gonna go with Amare (if the consensus is that he's top 10).

mediocre D. can't take his man 1 on 1. Incredible skill set and athleticism but somehow he can't put it together.

But I might be wrong in what the consensus opinion of him on this board is.
He does that all the time. He takes Kevin Garnett, he takes Tim Duncan, he takes literally anyone trying to guard him. You should have said rebounding.

:confusedshrug:

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Chris Bosh and Carlos Boozer.
Decent Bigs, but neither are capable of being the best or 2nd best player on a contender, neither play great defense. Bigs who can't block shots are not top tier.

And I suppose the Kobe today is. Kobe is no longer the player he once was, being all banged up and shit. What he's still doing at 32 is remarkable, but comparing Kobe to Michael is like comparing Manny Pacquio to Muhammed Ali.

[Kobe24Clutch]

I'm just confused. The guy is a 5x champion, has 2x Final MVPs, one MVP and has one of the greatest peaks of all-time; never mind some of the most incredible scoring binges ever seen, #6 in all-time points, top 5 in playoff points (not sure where exactly, but he's definitely top 5), 4x scoring 30ppg+ in the postseason (and another two scoring 29ppg), and so on and so forth. His resume is amazing yet he's 'the most overrated player today' and 'gets carried by his teammates'. Doubt anyone can list ONE postseason he got carried post-Shaq. I'll wait.
This.

[LBJWADE]

Lol Kobe is the most hated player in the league. The responses in this thread prove it. :lol

[widowmaker]

among what the NBA coaches believe kobe is overrated since he was selected first team (which i guess you could talk me into if i was drunk/high) and 1st team defense (a complete joke)...
based on the consensuses of this thread and ish as a whole, which for the most part is more accurate than the media, kobe is overrated.. contradicting the argument that he is in fact overrated...
why do NBA coaches overate kobe? or more importantly why aren't all these ish posters NBA coaches?:rolleyes:

[LBJWADE]

Kobe. Very questionable ball i.q. Scores a lot of points, but takes a lot of shots to do it (shots he doesn't have to take). Basically has never really done anything without great team mates carrying the lion's share of the load. When he was forced to carry a team the way guys like Nowitzki and LeBron have done, he's either not made the playoffs or lost in the first round. Convincingly. When he does have great team mates, he either rides them to championships or, on the occasions when they don't play up to snuff, he flames out dramatically without copping any blame (Game 6, 2008 Finals; Game 4, 2011 WCSF). Not as clutch as the hype would suggest, not as good a defender, not as versatile a scorer. Not much of a passer, even when he tries to be. Has arguably never been the best player in the NBA. Destructive ego. Etc.

Kobe must have some magical powers/some wizard behind him/ or a genie to be lucky enough to accomplish all that he has. :rolleyes:

[Scoooter]

Kobe must have some magical powers/some wizard behind him/ or a genie to be lucky enough to accomplish all that he has. :rolleyes:
I think he sacrifices orphan children to some kind of pagan god or demigod.

Someone check his locker.

[LBJWADE]

I think he sacrifices orphan children to some kind of pagan god or demigod.

Someone check his locker.

Sarcasm. You dont give him credit for ANYTHING he has accomplished in his career.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Last season? That was one of the greatest seasons in NBA history. I don't see how 30/7/9/50% + winning 62 games w/ that cast qualifies as overrated.
I'll take LeBron's 08/09 season over his 09/10 season any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

[kaiiu]

I'll take LeBron's 08/09 season over his 09/10 season any day of the week and twice on Sundays.
agreed

[Scoooter]

Sarcasm. You dont give him credit for ANYTHING he has accomplished in his career.
So? I doubt he cares.

[Christofire]

Rose, Kobe and maybe Durant


Wade had to share the ball with Lebron and you already know historically he averages more assists


Clutch is relative. Some have it where it's the final few minutes of the game some the final minute some last second shots.



These past few years he has been getting by on hype based on his prior success.


Hence the hype based on his success despite the fact his recent numbers don't warrant that.
why do people think more assists per game means better passer?.....Dominating the ball can equal more assists. Passing is a skill, you can average 2 assists and be a better passer than a guy that averages 7. Carmelo for instance is an excellent passer, he just isnt as much of a faciliator as other player.....Kobe bryant is also a great passer, Kobe makes some of the best entry, lead and passes in taffic at the guard position, and has great vision and passes out of his shot very well. He doesnt average 7+ assistss becuase of the triangle in which noone averages a crap load of assists

[YAWN]

going by the posts in this thread, kobe is the most underrated player in the league :roll:

[Indian guy]

I'll take LeBron's 08/09 season over his 09/10 season any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

LeBron's a slightly better player in 09-10 though. Better jumper, better numbers, better closer, better game-management skills - all while still being a freak athletically. He was a better player. I'll take 09-10 LeBron over every player in NBA history outside of peak MJ, Shaq and Kareem. Curious to know why LOKI thinks he was overrated that year, because I think he's dead wrong.

[kaiiu]

Why are all these Poor Mans Tony Allen fans hating?:roll:

[BlackMamba24]

kobe but only in terms of comparing him to jordan. kobe is not equal or better:roll: than mj. he's still one of my favorite players though.

[FourthTenor]

I'm just confused. The guy is a 5x champion, has 2x Final MVPs, one MVP and has one of the greatest peaks of all-time; never mind some of the most incredible scoring binges ever seen, #6 in all-time points, top 5 in playoff points (not sure where exactly, but he's definitely top 5), 4x scoring 30ppg+ in the postseason (and another two scoring 29ppg), and so on and so forth. His resume is amazing yet he's 'the most overrated player today' and 'gets carried by his teammates'. Doubt anyone can list ONE postseason he got carried post-Shaq. I'll wait.


MVP's and Finals MVP's are awarded by the vote of a fickle media. They don't mean anything conclusive. He was not the best player when he won MVP, it was more of a pity award cuz he'd never won it, he didnt deserve at least one of his finals MVPs, and Robert Horry is a 7 time champion so what's that got to do with anything? Players dont win titles, teams do.

Numerous people described exactly why Kobe is overrated. His defense has always been overrated, he doesnt pass except temporarily right after he's been called out about it in the media and when he does try to pass he turns it over a bunch, he takes bad shots because he wants to be the hero instead of moving the ball to get open shots. When he isnt getting to take 25-30 shots in a game he doesnt even look interested, he basically quits on the team because its not all about him. Just look at games 2-4 of the Mavs series this year.

Being a very talented scorer doesnt mean you're a top 10 alltime basketball player. THere is far, far more to basketball than just a single player's points per game. Kobe is average or below in literally every category but points, and even his points dont come efficiently.

[kaiiu]

Mj Is A Poor Mans Tony Allen If He Played Today

[Christofire]

LeBron's a slightly better player in 09-10 though. Better jumper, better numbers, better closer, better game-management skills - all while still being a freaking athletically. He was a better player. I'll take 09-10 LeBron over every player in NBA history outside of peak MJ, Shaq and Kareem. Curious to know why LOKI thinks he was overrated that year, because it's simply not true.

better game manger?...beter shot?......he plays with dwyane wade you turd....

sum it all up...he has it easier...much easier....more open shots, less defense on him......etc. he dint get better, he got open, alot more open than he'd usually be had he stayed in cleveland....09-10 james had he still been in cleveland would have struggled with his loss of explosiveness and atheleticism

[kabalcage]

I have to go with Kevin Love. How great can he be if he leads your team straight to the lottery every year?

Totally overrated, he's always overmatched on defense.

[kaiiu]

better game manger?...beter shot?......he plays with dwyane wade you turd....

sum it all up...he has it easier...much easier....more open shots, less defense on him......etc. he dint get better, he got open, alot more open than he'd usually be had he stayed in cleveland....09-10 james had he still been in cleveland would have struggled with his loss of explosiveness and atheleticism
He was in Cleveland in 09-10:oldlol:

but 08-09 version WAS better than 10 version. Better shooter, better ft shooter, more clutch, actually played great defense that year for the only time in his whole career. More wins

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Depends on what aspects of their game.

For LeBron it's his defense and ability to break down defenses
For Wade it's his defense and shooting ability
For Kobe it's his defense and ability to dominate scoring and playmaking like he used to
For Melo it's his overall ability to impact a game
For Rose it's his overall skill level and ability

[Nash-tastic]

I truly feel that many of the top players in the league are overrated now because of the media and that includes:

Kobe Bryant
LeBron James
Carmelo Anthony
Derrick Rose
Kevin Durant (Well.. A little)

[Christofire]

MVP's and Finals MVP's are awarded by the vote of a fickle media. They don't mean anything conclusive. He was not the best player when he won MVP, it was more of a pity award cuz he'd never won it, he didnt deserve at least one of his finals MVPs, and Robert Horry is a 7 time champion so what's that got to do with anything? Players dont win titles, teams do.

Numerous people described exactly why Kobe is overrated. His defense has always been overrated, he doesnt pass except temporarily right after he's been called out about it in the media and when he does try to pass he turns it over a bunch, he takes bad shots because he wants to be the hero instead of moving the ball to get open shots. When he isnt getting to take 25-30 shots in a game he doesnt even look interested, he basically quits on the team because its not all about him. Just look at games 2-4 of the Mavs series this year.



Being a very talented scorer doesnt mean you're a top 10 alltime basketball player. THere is far, far more to basketball than just a single player's points per game. Kobe is average or below in literally every category but points, and even his points dont come efficiently.


he was not the best player in your eyes.....When Bryant was the best player in the league he didnt get any, since when does MVP goes to the best player anyway?.....You a complete jack@ss if you think bryant is overrated. the Fact that Kobe Bryant with 14 seasons of 90+ games a year is still even being mentioned in the same breath as these younger guys with significantly less mileage on their bodies than Bryant is a remarkable feat in it's own. I seriously doubt that LeBron james plays anywhere near the level of Bryant by the time he's in his 14th season, much less be a top 5 player in the league.

If Kobe is overrated then i think everyone is overrated.

[DStebb716]

Rajon Rondo.

[Scoooter]

I have to go with Kevin Love. How great can he be if he leads your team straight to the lottery every year?

Totally overrated, he's always overmatched on defense.
In fairness to him, he really shouldn't be leading a team. He's an excellent complimentary player, and is generally rated as such.

[Nash-tastic]

better game manger?...beter shot?......he plays with dwyane wade you turd....

sum it all up...he has it easier...much easier....more open shots, less defense on him......etc. he dint get better, he got open, alot more open than he'd usually be had he stayed in cleveland....09-10 james had he still been in cleveland would have struggled with his loss of explosiveness and atheleticism
09-10 LeBron James was still in Cleveland :facepalm

[catch24]

MVP's and Finals MVP's are awarded by a fickle media. He was not the best player when he won MVP, it was more of a pity award cuz he'd never won it, he didnt deserve at least one of his finals MVPs, and Robert Horry is a 7 time champion so what's that got to do with anything? Players dont win titles, teams do.

Right, in your opinion he didn't deserve it, but according to the people that voted for him, his MVP was well deserved. Kobe has been the driving force of the last 3 Finals LA has been too; His all-around production was damn good too. Why you would compare him to Robert Horry is beyond me.


Numerous people described exactly why Kobe is overrated. His defense has always been overrated, he doesnt pass except temporarily right after he's been called out about it in the media and when he does try to pass he turns it over a bunch, he takes bad shots because he wants to be the hero instead of moving the ball to get open shots. When he isnt getting to take 25-30 shots in a game he doesnt even look interested, he basically quits on the team because its not all about him. Just look at games 2-4 of the Mavs series this year.

And none of it was relevant, albeit the whole 'most clutch player today' stuff is. The numbers refute that, so I can't disagree there. Other than trolls who say he's 'GOAT', how exactly is he overrated though? His defense has been great (besides this season). Has it been overrated? Hey, maybe a little, but lets not pretend he wasn't a good defender the years he made the all-teams. He and his teams have made the Finals the last 3 seasons; where was he quitting then? If you're talking about this year, Dallas was simply a better team and totally dumped on Gasol to the tune of Phil having to punch him in the chest. And what about the defense the Lakers played? :oldlol:

Like you said - a team game. Please stay consistent.


Being a very talented scorer doesnt mean you're a top 10 alltime basketball player. THere is far, far more to basketball than just a single player's points per game. Kobe is average or below in literally every category but points, and even his points dont come efficiently.

He isn't just a talented scorer; he's a fantastic play maker and was a pretty damn good defender if we're talking about his career. Enough with the taking posts out of context crap.

[Papaya Petee]

Derrick Rose easily, honestly, luckiest and worst MVP of all time.

The dude shoots 10-25 at a regular basis now, thank god for Chi town defense and rebounding and heart, too bad the Heat will be sending that ass home soon.

[Nevaeh]

why do people think more assists per game means better passer?.....Dominating the ball can equal more assists. Passing is a skill, you can average 2 assists and be a better passer than a guy that averages 7. Carmelo for instance is an excellent passer, he just isnt as much of a faciliator as other player.....Kobe bryant is also a great passer, Kobe makes some of the best entry, lead and passes in taffic at the guard position, and has great vision and passes out of his shot very well. He doesnt average 7+ assistss becuase of the triangle in which noone averages a crap load of assists

See, now you just trying to be cute :oldlol: Explain all the Dumb Ass Shots he takes then.

[Scoooter]

Derrick Rose easily, honestly, luckiest and worst MVP of all time.

The dude shoots 10-25 at a regular basis now, thank god for Chi town defense and rebounding and heart, too bad the Heat will be sending that ass home soon.
LOL, Papaya Petee. :lol

[Christofire]

09-10 LeBron James was still in Cleveland :facepalm

obviously i mean the james of this year of if i said had he been back in cleveland...lots of smart asses on this board

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

MVP's and Finals MVP's are awarded by the vote of a fickle media. They don't mean anything conclusive. He was not the best player when he won MVP, it was more of a pity award cuz he'd never won it, he didnt deserve at least one of his finals MVPs, and Robert Horry is a 7 time champion so what's that got to do with anything? Players dont win titles, teams do.

So now MVP becomes meaningless because Kobe won it. What about LeBron's MVPs? Steve Nash's? Dirk Nowitzki's? And rings must mean something since that's what players play for. If rings were totally meaningless then LeBron would have never left Cleveland, KG or Ray Allen would have never left their respective teams, and Kobe and MJ would have never demanded better teammates or trades. The reason he mentioned titles is because Kobe was a key piece in obtaining them. Besides a few clutch moments, Robert Horry was never the contributor to a title that guys like Shaq or Kobe or Duncan were.


Numerous people described exactly why Kobe is overrated. His defense has always been overrated

His help defense has never been elite, but his man defense was elite a few years ago. And before that it was elite during the 3 peat.


he doesnt pass except temporarily right after he's been called out about it in the media and when he does try to pass he turns it over a bunch

This isn't true. You and I both know that's a lie


he takes bad shots because he wants to be the hero instead of moving the ball to get open shots. When he isnt getting to take 25-30 shots in a game he doesnt even look interested, he basically quits on the team because its not all about him. Just look at games 2-4 of the Mavs series this year.

Ok first of all, yes Kobe can take bad shots, but every player does even the greats. And he doesn't take game winning shots because he wants to be the hero, he takes them because he feels he can make them and he likes the pressure and responsibility. It's called heart. And Kobe doesn't take 25-30 shots per game anyway. Nowhere near that. He only took 25+ shots per game when his team was trash and had to carry them offensively putting up 35ppg. Either you have a disturbing, unnatural hatred for Bryant or you are grossly misinformed about him.



Being a very talented scorer doesnt mean you're a top 10 alltime basketball player. THere is far, far more to basketball than just a single player's points per game. Kobe is average or below in literally every category but points, and even his points dont come efficiently.

I agree, but scoring is a large part of the game. Just look at the general Top 10 list...what do they have in common? They either have A.) Multiple rings and mvps or B) A lot of points. Besides, there is much more to Kobe's game than scoring. You can't tell me he does nothing but score. He leads his team in assists every year and rebounds very well for a 2 guard that plays with Gasol, Bynum and Odom

[KOLBCTEW]

He doesnt average 7+ assistss becuase of the triangle in which noone averages a crap load of assists
Jordan did for an entire season..

[catch24]

And what's this crap about 'not being efficient enough'? The majority of Kobe's career his FG% has been just as good if not better than the leagues average.

LeBron: 10.1/20.1 FG/FGA per game
Kobe: 9.5/20.6 FG/FGA per game

Sure, Kobe is more sporadic with his scoring, and from game to game is likely to to be less consistent/shoot a low percentage, but at the end of the day, Kobe only misses (or missed; just compared seasons where both LBJ/KB shot 20 attempts) one more shot a game. Efficiency is being completely overrated if we're going by the OP and this threads logic.

[Christofire]

See, now you just trying to be cute :oldlol: Explain all the Dumb Ass Shots he takes then.
shooting is a skill, so is passing.....your abaility to make crisp and on point passes is what constitutes you being a better or worse passer than the next man, not how many assists per game you average.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Jordan did for an entire season..

Which season?

Even so, that's besides the point. We know Jordan > Kobe so what does that have to do with anything? Kobe is an overrated passer because he isn't a better passer than Jordan? In that case almost everyone except Magic is an overrated passer

[kaiiu]

See, now you just trying to be cute :oldlol: Explain all the Dumb Ass Shots he takes then.
Jordan= Poor mans Tony Allen today

[LBJWADE]

Jordan did for an entire season..

In the 80's when they weren playing within the triangle :facepalm

[LBJWADE]

Which season?

Even so, that's besides the point. We know Jordan > Kobe so what does that have to do with anything? Kobe is an overrated passer because he isn't a better passer than Jordan? In that case almost everyone except Magic is an overrated passer

They say Kobe sucks then compare him to the best basketball player ever. Isnt that more of a honor :lol

[Christofire]

Jordan did for an entire season..
if i remember correctly...jackson became the head coach of the Bulls in 89, Jordan averaged 8 assist in the 88-89 season.....the following year he dropped to 6, even in the the run and gun era where the league average was around 108-10 points....

in the triangle jordan never averaged over 6 and a half assists and most years he was 5.5 or lower......

[Nevaeh]

And what's this crap about 'not being efficient enough'? The majority of Kobe's career his FG% has been just as good if not better than the leagues average.

LeBron: 10.1/20.1 FG/FGM per game
Kobe: 9.5/20.6 FG/FGM per game

Sure, Kobe is more sporadic with his scoring, and from game to game is likely to to be less consistent/shoot a low percentage, but at the end Kobe only misses (or missed; just compared seasons where both LBJ/KB shot 20 attempts) one more shot per game. FG% is being completely overrated if we're going by the OP and this threads logic.

I think the point is, for someone who's Game is based around scoring and being given the green light to shoot so often, you would think they would manage at LEAST one season over 48%. Plus, it's not like he was even seeing hard double teams through half of his career either. (The kind of double teams that focal point players receive).

[Nevaeh]

Jordan= Poor mans Tony Allen today


N!gga, I knew you was a Kobe Stan just frontin' to look unbiased. Or maybe you just bored tonight. Either way, it's Friday :cheers:

[catch24]

I think the point is, for someone who's Game is based around scoring and being given the green light to shoot so often, you would think they would manage at LEAST one season over 48%. Plus, it's not like he was even seeing hard double teams through half of his career either. (The kind of double teams that focal point players receive).

Yeah, maybe so, but he is what he is - a volume scorer. I'd definitely like to see his shot selection improve next season and shoot over 48%. No doubt, but to say he hasn't been efficient is just fundamentally incorrect. Shooting the leagues average isn't 'inefficient'. Just saying.

[kaiiu]

N!gga, I knew you was a Kobe Stan just frontin' to look unbiased. Or maybe you just bored tonight. Either way, it's Friday :cheers:
:oldlol: :cheers:

[LBJWADE]

I think the point is, for someone who's Game is based around scoring and being given the green light to shoot so often, you would think they would manage at LEAST one season over 48%. Plus, it's not like he was even seeing hard double teams through half of his career either. (The kind of double teams that focal point players receive).

The greatest shooters in the league all avg. right below 50%. Doesnt Ray Allen shoot 40 somethin' from 3?

And :wtf: at the bold part...

[Nevaeh]

The greatest shooters in the league all avg. right below 50%. Doesnt Ray Allen shoot 40 somethin' from 3?

And :wtf: at the bold part...

Sorry my brother, I was talking about Kobe not Lebron.

[Christofire]

I think the point is, for someone who's Game is based around scoring and being given the green light to shoot so often, you would think they would manage at LEAST one season over 48%. Plus, it's not like he was even seeing hard double teams through half of his career either. (The kind of double teams that focal point players receive).


what the hell is wrong with you?......James doesnt even average 48% for his career.....how many superstars that are primarly perimeter guys shooting 48%, the only guy shooting those type of percentage are guys like chris paul and nash that get most of their scoring done off of screens for easy layups and open shots. Perimter oriented players that do most of their work in isolation situations will very rarely shoot 48-50%......47% is usually the highest you'd see for that type of player, unless they protect their pecentage in games where they are off by not shooting anymore.

James and wade have the high percentages beause
A) they took away defensive pressure from each other
B)they are primarily slashers
c)when they arent shooting well they can feed their counterpart and let him carry them, which saves their FG%s


i seriously wish people would think more logically in regards to how these players accumulate these numbers....regardless of what you say...from gameto game the difference between 46 and 48 percent is 1 shot....

[KOLBCTEW]

if i remember correctly...jackson became the head coach of the Bulls in 89, Jordan averaged 8 assist in the 88-89 season.....the following year he dropped to 6, even in the the run and gun era where the league average was around 108-10 points....

in the triangle jordan never averaged over 6 and a half assists and most years he was 5.5 or lower......
My Mistake I mean't Pippen.
We know Jordan > Kobe so what does that have to do with anything? Kobe is an overrated passer because he isn't a better passer than Jordan? In that case almost everyone except Magic is an overrated passer
:wtf: It's not even about that...

[Nash-tastic]

what the hell is wrong with you?......James doesnt even average 48% for his career.....how many superstars that are primarly perimeter guys shooting 48%, the only guy shooting those type of percentage are guys like chris paul and nash that get most of their scoring done off of screens for easy layups and open shots. Perimter oriented players that do most of their work in isolation situations will very rarely shoot 48-50%......47% is usually the highest you'd see for that type of player, unless they protect their pecentage in games where they are off by not shooting anymore.

James and wade have the high percentages beause
A) they took away defensive pressure from each other
B)they are primarily slashers
c)when they arent shooting well they can feed their counterpart and let him carry them, which saves their FG%s


i seriously wish people would think more logically in regards to how these players accumulate these numbers....regardless of what you say...from gameto game the difference between 46 and 48 percent is 1 shot....
So doesn't that mean you should set screens more rather than iso? Why can't LeBron and Kobe use screens as effectively as say Paul or Nash?

[Nevaeh]

what the hell is wrong with you?......James doesnt even average 48% for his career.....how many superstars that are primarly perimeter guys shooting 48%, the only guy shooting those type of percentage are guys like chris paul and nash that get most of their scoring done off of screens for easy layups and open shots. Perimter oriented players that do most of their work in isolation situations will very rarely shoot 48-50%......47% is usually the highest you'd see for that type of player, unless they protect their pecentage in games where they are off by not shooting anymore.

James and wade have the high percentages beause
A) they took away defensive pressure from each other
B)they are primarily slashers
c)when they arent shooting well they can feed their counterpart and let him carry them, which saves their FG%s


i seriously wish people would think more logically in regards to how these players accumulate these numbers....regardless of what you say...from gameto game the difference between 46 and 48 percent is 1 shot....

Yeah, Kinda what Shaq did for Kobe and Company back in the day. Except Kobe wasn't smart enough to capitalize on it and instead went for unnecessary shots to "Look Good", instead of being efficient.

If you're a CAREER 45% shooter, you better believe there's a mess of 30-40% games in the mix that most likely could have been avoided.

[KOLBCTEW]

James and wade have the high percentages beause
A) they took away defensive pressure from each other

c)when they arent shooting well they can feed their counterpart and let him carry them, which saves their FG%s
Uh... they still had high percentages when they weren't playing with each other.



regardless of what you say...from gameto game the difference between 46 and 48 percent is 1 shot....
That's if every game was identical. In games the shooting percentages vary.

[Christofire]

My Mistake I mean't Pippen.
:wtf: It's not even about that...

and that was an anomaly....never averaged more than 6 since......

Jordan is living proof of how great numbers does not = better player...

88-89 mj got crazy numbers by dominating the ball. He became a better player with the addition of phil jackson making him better with team philosphy and bring those numbers down to accomadate the production of his supporting cast.


there is absolutely no need for a player to average 25+ points 8 rebs and 8 assists.....that hurts a team more than it helps it.

[bagelred]

Worst of all, he has the ability to do the other things he should like rebound, defend and pass, but simply doesn't put any effort into it.



http://i52.tinypic.com/11secet.jpg

You think Carmelo is a bad rebounder? Look again.


http://i55.tinypic.com/1zqfpj8.png

And besides Lebron (and Hedo) he's right up there with assists at the SF position. Lebron and Hedo play like Point Forwards, thus high assist totals. That's not Carmelo's game. But he still gets 3 assists a game.

[Christofire]

Uh... they still had high percentages when they weren't playing with each other.


That's if every game was identical. In games the shooting percentages vary.
so it's just coincidental that they both had the highest FG% of their careers wince pairing up?...wade increased his efficiency by 2 and half percent, and JAmes by 1%......and what part of them being slashers don't you understand. Slasher will generally have FG% 47-50, becaue they usually don their work closer to the basket, and most jumpers they get are jumpers that the defense will give to them becasue they are played fort the drive.


common logic bro...

[Christofire]

http://i52.tinypic.com/11secet.jpg

You think Carmelo is a bad rebounder? Look again.


http://i55.tinypic.com/1zqfpj8.png

And besides Lebron (and Hedo) he's right up there with assists at the SF position. Lebron and Hedo play like Point Forwards, thus high assist totals. That's not Carmelo's game. But he still gets 3 assists a game.

you have to undersand carmelo has had a reputation of being uncommited, uncaochable etc. ever since his second season or so and he can't shake it despite most of what people saying about him these days being untrue.

Carmelo has always been one of the best rebounding SFs in the league(better than lebron in fact). Carmelo is a beast on the boards. What alot of people failed to realize in denver is that Carmelo used to leak out on missed shots to create fast break opportunities, hench letting his BIG handle the boards as he cherry picks for points, he was one of the main reasons the nuggets where one of the best fast breaking teams. His offensive rebounding ability is as good as it gets, he can outposition anyone.

His defensive over the last 3 years has been good, but because of his reputation people dont care to notice it, and simply say these things that are just not true, instead of paying attention and watching games.

[824]

Neither melo or kobe are overrated what a joke

[ThaSwagg3r]

LeBron's a slightly better player in 09-10 though. Better jumper, better numbers, better closer, better game-management skills - all while still being a freak athletically. He was a better player. I'll take 09-10 LeBron over every player in NBA history outside of peak MJ, Shaq and Kareem. Curious to know why LOKI thinks he was overrated that year, because I think he's dead wrong.
He had a better jumper and that was about it. He was less committed to playing defense and he was definitely less willing to win that season than he was in 08/09. He gave everything and left everything out on the court in that ECF against the Magic in 2009. In 2010 in the 2nd round against the Celtics he completely gave up after Game 4.

[PHILA]

I'll take 09-10 LeBron over every player in NBA history outside of peak MJ, Shaq and Kareem.

You forgot the top 2.


http://i.imgur.com/PmCWw.jpg

[Samurai Swoosh]

He had a better jumper and that was about it. He was less committed to playing defense and he was definitely less willing to win that season than he was in 08/09. He gave everything and left everything out on the court in that ECF against the Magic in 2009. In 2010 in the 2nd round against the Celtics he completely gave up after Game 4.
I agree with everything said. But the point is in the 2009 - 2010 REGULAR season, he had NO competition in the regular season for who the best player in the league was ...

In 2009, Wade ... just as he is now. Was every bit as good, both on the floor, and even statistically for you stat whores.

And as said, 2009 was Kobe's last legit year to be included in the "still possibly the best player in the L" conversation during the REGULAR season.

[KOLBCTEW]

so it's just coincidental that they both had the highest FG% of their careers wince pairing up?...wade increased his efficiency by 2 and half percent, Wade shot 49% shooting year with more attempts


and JAmes by 1%......

Wade shot 49% one year and James 50%. They shoot high percentages regardless of playing with one another.


and what part of them being slashers don't you understand. Slasher will generally have FG% 47-50, becaue they usually don their work closer to the basket, and most jumpers they get are jumpers that the defense will give to them becasue they are played fort the drive.


common logic bro...
Uh... What??

When I originally quoted you I left point B


B)they are primarily slashers
out.



James and wade have the high percentages beause
A) they took away defensive pressure from each other

c)when they arent shooting well they can feed their counterpart and let him carry them, which saves their FG%s
I'm not debating the fact their slashing ability doesn't help their FG%, I'm debating the fact that they don't need each other to shoot high percentages.

[Samurai Swoosh]

You forgot the top 2.


http://i.imgur.com/PmCWw.jpg
How old are you? Did you actually watch them play in context?

:oldlol:

[PHILA]

^^ Below we can see video recaps of some of their top seasons.


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=216928

[Samurai Swoosh]

^^ Below we can see video recaps of some of their top seasons.


http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=216928
That's not what I asked you ...

[Stuckey]

Rose, his team is very balanced, plays great defense

he's a two trick pony, he shoots or carries and drives by

[DMAVS41]

Over the last few years? Bosh or Carmelo probably.

This year? Kobe or Rose probably.

Based on media and fan views? Definitely Kobe the more I think about it. He got first team all defense....joke. Got first team all nba....joke. Got more MVP votes than Dirk and Durant and Wade....joke. Got a bunch of DPOY votes.....joke.

Yea....definitely Kobe.

[FourthTenor]

Over the last few years? Bosh or Carmelo probably.

This year? Kobe or Rose probably.

Based on media and fan views? Definitely Kobe the more I think about it. He got first team all defense....joke. Got first team all nba....joke. Got more MVP votes than Dirk and Durant and Wade....joke. Got a bunch of DPOY votes.....joke.

Yea....definitely Kobe.


The problem is that fans, AND media who simply just dont know basketball have gotten so used to just going with Kobe as their default answer for any comparison they didnt wanna put some thought into, and its a habit thats dying very hard. People who havent really watched enough ball lately to make informed comparisons are just stickin with their "kobe" default answer whenever asked for an opinion.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Over the last few years? Bosh or Carmelo probably.

This year? Kobe or Rose probably.

Based on media and fan views? Definitely Kobe the more I think about it. He got first team all defense....joke. Got first team all nba....joke. Got more MVP votes than Dirk and Durant and Wade....joke. Got a bunch of DPOY votes.....joke.

Yea....definitely Kobe.

too many jokes to be a joke....Hes still one of the bests, hes not nearly as overrated as people want him to look after a chaotic 2nd round elimination overreaction.

[DMAVS41]

too many jokes to be a joke....Hes still one of the bests, hes not nearly as overrated as people want him to look after a chaotic 2nd round elimination overreaction.

Who is more over-rated? Every other player I can think of isn't thought in the same way.

I mean...come on. First team all defense and first team all nba....and beating out Dirk in MVP voting.

If thats not grossly over-rated I don't know what is. And finishing high in DPOY as well. Holy crap.

Name a more over-rated player right now.

[FourthTenor]

too many jokes to be a joke....Hes still one of the bests, hes not nearly as overrated as people want him to look after a chaotic 2nd round elimination overreaction.

He's always been over rated compared to what he's actually been as a player. He used to be really good, but people thought he was even better. Now he's just pretty good, but people still think he's really good.

When he's 40 years old and playing 13 minutes a night for a first-round punching bag and scoring 12 points on 4/11 shooting people will still be insisting that he's "lost a small step, but still Top 15" LMFAO....

[YAWN]

Who is more over-rated? Every other player I can think of isn't thought in the same way.

I mean...come on. First team all defense and first team all nba....and beating out Dirk in MVP voting.

If thats not grossly over-rated I don't know what is. And finishing high in DPOY as well. Holy crap.

Name a more over-rated player right now.

out of curiosity, where do you and starface rank Kobe among current players?

[DMAVS41]

out of curiosity, where do you and starface rank Kobe among current players?

top 7 probably. not sure....

let me think here

dirk
lebron
wade
howard
rose
durant

then its debatable between guys like cp3 and dwill i guess. i'd have to think longer.

7th at best.

[JtotheIzzo]

this year it was Kobe.

[YAWN]

top 7 probably. not sure....

let me think here

dirk
lebron
wade
howard
rose
durant

then its debatable between guys like cp3 and dwill i guess. i'd have to think longer.

7th at best.

The majority of people have him in the mix with the top tier of Lebron/Wade/Dwight/Durant... So in essence most people consider Kobe top 5. You consider him top 7. How is he grossly overrated?

[FourthTenor]

The majority of people have him in the mix with the top tier of Lebron/Wade/Dwight/Durant... So in essence most people consider Kobe top 5. You consider him top 7. How is he grossly overrated?


Numbers are arbitrary. 5, 7, whatever....

The bottom line is that most fanboys have Kobe in the top TIER of players, when in fact he is not.

[JtotheIzzo]

The majority of people have him in the mix with the top tier of Lebron/Wade/Dwight/Durant... So in essence most people consider Kobe top 5. You consider him top 7. How is he grossly overrated?

He got first team when he was really second team All NBA.

He got the by how he is viewed (read: rated) by many members of the media.

It was given to him based on the previous playoffs and his entire body of work (people have trouble distinguishing that from the season specific performance, they are after all only human, and Kobe is one of the greatest of all time), NOT the 10-11 season.

ergo facto...over rated!

[DMAVS41]

The majority of people have him in the mix with the top tier of Lebron/Wade/Dwight/Durant... So in essence most people consider Kobe top 5. You consider him top 7. How is he grossly overrated?

are you serious?

16 times more mvp votes than wade. wade, easily a better player right now.
more mvp votes than Dirk....LOL
first team all nba over wade
first team all defense? probably the biggest joke in the history of honors in the nba
DPOY votes....what?

holy shit. he didn't deserve any of that this year.

name me another over-rated player like that both in the nba circle, media circle, and public circle.

i can't think of anyone approaching that.

[YAWN]

are you serious?

16 times more mvp votes than wade. wade, easily a better player right now.
more mvp votes than Dirk....LOL
first team all nba over wade
first team all defense? probably the biggest joke in the history of honors in the nba
DPOY votes....what?

holy shit. he didn't deserve any of that this year.

name me another over-rated player like that both in the nba circle, media circle, and public circle.

i can't think of anyone approaching that.

Because its not obvious why Wade got less credit than he should have...? Thats the reason he got less MVP votes, thats the reason he got less First team NBA votes...

Based on the criteria that the coaches use for All D (well what we're lead to arrive at based on the results) Kobe's all D team was fine. Are there better more consistent defenders out there? Definitely 100% without a doubt. But same can be said for some of the other guys on the team.. However when those guys do focus, they're still the best in the world. I personally disagree with the way its handled and think all those defensive specialist around the league should get the recognition..

I never saw the DPOY voting, do you have a link? I figured every single person would have voted for Howard...

[DMAVS41]

Because its not obvious why Wade got less credit than he should have...? Thats the reason he got less MVP votes, thats the reason he got less First team NBA votes...

Based on the criteria that the coaches use for All D (well what we're lead to arrive at based on the results) Kobe's all D team was fine. Are there better more consistent defenders out there? Definitely 100% without a doubt. But same can be said for some of the other guys on the team.. However when those guys do focus, they're still the best in the world. I personally disagree with the way its handled and think all those defensive specialist around the league should get the recognition..

I never saw the DPOY voting, do you have a link? I figured every single person would have voted for Howard...


I'll keep asking you. Who is more over-rated. I don't really disagree much with what you say, but.....who is more over-rated?

DPOY results:

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/04/18/dwight-howard-defensive-player-release/index.html

[YAWN]

I'll keep asking you. Who is more over-rated. I don't really disagree much with what you say, but.....who is more over-rated?

DPOY results:

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/04/18/dwight-howard-defensive-player-release/index.html

Someone gave Bogans a 1st team vote :oldlol:

Haven't really seen anyone be overrated outside of crazed fans of rose/kobe/lebron/wade/durant etc who think their guys is the best player "and its not even close".

If I had to pick someone, i guess Id go with Westbrook.. I think Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Derrick Rose, and Rajon Rondo are all better than him, but many Argue him #1 or #2 pg in the league.

[DMAVS41]

Someone gave Bogans a 1st team vote :oldlol:

Haven't really seen anyone be overrated outside of crazed fans of rose/kobe/lebron/wade/durant etc who think their guys is the best player "and its not even close".

If I had to pick someone, i guess Id go with Westbrook.. I think Chris Paul, Deron Williams, Derrick Rose, and Rajon Rondo are all better than him, but many Argue him #1 or #2 pg in the league.

Westbrook is a good pick.

[Doranku]

Westbrick or Rose.

[Bigsmoke]

I'll keep asking you. Who is more over-rated. I don't really disagree much with what you say, but.....who is more over-rated?

DPOY results:

http://www.nba.com/2011/news/04/18/dwight-howard-defensive-player-release/index.html

Grant Hill getting a first place vote :lol

[dunksby]

Its Melo, no one has ever seen him defend but everybody keep sayin he is a good defender if he tries... :facepalm

[comerb]

Rose.

Not because he's not a great player, but because he is nowhere near as good as he's been made out to be this year

[Irish]

Looked at title, seen poster, I'm not even going to look at the post and assume its his daily nonsense about Bryant.

[Clutch]

Its Melo, no one has ever seen him defend but everybody keep sayin he is a good defender if he tries... :facepalm
There are 2 options
a)You haven't seen him play enough
b)You are jealous because Durant isn't better than him.

Because you are a Thunder fan,answer b is actually more likely.

Even though I like Melo I am realistic and have no trouble to accept some players are better than Melo.But Durant isn't one of them.

And here is one picture just for you:
http://i56.tinypic.com/erhk5w.jpg

You will probably try to deny that Melo put up stats only when Durant was young.Here is the link for you so you can see that's false:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=anthoca01&p2=duranke01

[Bigsmoke]

Its Melo, no one has ever seen him defend but everybody keep sayin he is a good defender if he tries... :facepalm

i knew u were going to say Melo :lol

[alenleomessi]

kobe and rose

[Rnbizzle]

#1 Hater topic

[dunksby]

There are 2 options
a)You haven't seen him play enough
b)You are jealous because Durant isn't better than him.

Because you are a Thunder fan,answer b is actually more likely.

Even though I like Melo I am realistic and have no trouble to accept some players are better than Melo.But Durant isn't one of them.
A) I have seen him play more than you Pauk
B) Durant surpassed Melo at 21

You are a Knicks homer, if you were realistic you would know that Durant is already better than him. You are so insecure that you had to bring KD into the argument in order to make Melo look good, thats enough evidence that Durant is a better player.

[Clutch]

A) I have seen him play more than you Pauk
B) Durant surpassed Melo at 21

You are a Knicks homer, if you were realistic you would know that Durant is already better than him. You are so insecure that you had to bring KD into the argument in order to make Melo look good, thats enough evidence that Durant is a better player.
You showed your intelligence when you called me "pauk".
That guy is one of the biggest Heat and LeBron homers while I hate both of them.

Melo >= Durant

[dunksby]

You showed your intelligence when you called me "pauk".
That guy is one of the biggest Heat and LeBron homers while I hate both of them.

Melo >= Durant
No you showed your intelligence and mental instability when you ****ed up and confused your different accounts, stop living in denial and deal with facts:
Clutch=Pauk
Durant>>>>Melo
Me>>>You

Now go **** yourself.

[knicksman]

scoring through tough shots is the most difficult aspect of this game and if you can do that then youre the best. if you have mastered the most difficult part, theres no reason you cant master the easier aspects of the game(i.e. defending)

all i can say is every player can play defense but not offense. thats why they say you can always play defense, meaning you can play defense if you focus on it. it doesnt require alot of skills unlike scoring. defense is like a janitors job thats why its called doing the dirty work. everybody can be a janitor but nobody wants to be a janitor. same with defense, everybody can play defense but nobody wants to play defense.

so i conclude that OP is an idiot

[Doranku]

scoring through tough shots is the most difficult aspect of this game and if you can do that then youre the best. if you have mastered the most difficult part, theres no reason you cant master the easier aspects of the game(i.e. defending)

all i can say is every player can play defense but not offense. thats why they say you can always play defense, meaning you can play defense if you focus on it. it doesnt require alot of skills unlike scoring. defense is like a janitors job thats why its called doing the dirty work. everybody can be a janitor but nobody wants to be a janitor. same with defense, everybody can play defense but nobody wants to play defense.

so i conclude that OP is an idiot

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[billyhoe]

With out any considerable doubt Carmelo . I think that new York will ultimately go to no where with him , i'm not saying he is not good however he is too damn selfish and int opinion uncoachable , Gc had many problems with him and mainly is inability to pass the ball around and is tendency to be in isolations plays that usually ends up in him taking shots that are difficult and are usually not in the floow of the offense. And by the way I have no problem with the fact that he makes tough shots , which he does I 'll admit that . My issue is that he is primarily the main reason why the offense is at this position at the first place ....

[Clutch]

No you showed your intelligence and mental instability when you ****ed up and confused your different accounts, stop living in denial and deal with facts:
Clutch=Pauk
Durant>>>>Melo
Me>>>You

Now go **** yourself.
And you concluded that I am pauk based on what ?
When you are accusing me of having multi accounts then at least you should have some evidence.
I may say you are ashbelly even though there aren't any similarities between him and you (instead of being trolls) just like there aren't any similarities between me and pauk.
You are wrong on all 3 comparisons.

Clutch doesn't have anything to do with Pauk.
Melo >= Durant
Me >>>>>>>>>>You

[dunksby]

And you concluded that I am pauk based on what ?
When you are accusing me of having multi accounts then at least you should have some evidence.
I may say you are ashbelly even though there aren't any similarities between him and you (instead of being trolls) just like there aren't any similarities between me and pauk.
You are wrong on all 3 comparisons.

Clutch doesn't have anything to do with Pauk.
Melo >= Durant
Me >>>>>>>>>>You
But you did go and ****ed yourself, thats good.

[Clutch]

But you did go and ****ed yourself, thats good.
Is that all you can say ?

It's easier to admit you lost than write stupid sentences and go totally off-topic.

[Human Error]

No, he's pretty much at worst on LeBron's level.
Stop the stupidity, seriously. At first I thought you're doing this on purpose because one can't be this stupid in real world. But you seem to be serious which is sad.

[ChandlerParsons]

Hmm... Westbrook? I mean the 2nd best PG in the NBA this year?
According to the All Nba Teams.

I really wouldn't know

[FourthTenor]

scoring through tough shots is the most difficult aspect of this game and if you can do that then youre the best. if you have mastered the most difficult part, theres no reason you cant master the easier aspects of the game(i.e. defending)

all i can say is every player can play defense but not offense. thats why they say you can always play defense, meaning you can play defense if you focus on it. it doesnt require alot of skills unlike scoring. defense is like a janitors job thats why its called doing the dirty work. everybody can be a janitor but nobody wants to be a janitor. same with defense, everybody can play defense but nobody wants to play defense.

so i conclude that OP is an idiot



:hammerhead:

[Clutch]

so i conclude that OP is an idiot
or maybe even

http://i35.tinypic.com/*******.gif



:lol

[Knoe Itawl]

Bryant

[LEFT4DEAD]

No you showed your intelligence and mental instability when you ****ed up and confused your different accounts, stop living in denial and deal with facts:
Clutch=Pauk
Durant>>>>Melo
Me>>>You

Now go **** yourself.
He is not Pauk you stupid Thunder fan. Retard.

[Kobe24Clutch]

Rose, and Dwight Howard.

[JMT]

http://i52.tinypic.com/11secet.jpg

You think Carmelo is a bad rebounder? Look again.


http://i55.tinypic.com/1zqfpj8.png

And besides Lebron (and Hedo) he's right up there with assists at the SF position. Lebron and Hedo play like Point Forwards, thus high assist totals. That's not Carmelo's game. But he still gets 3 assists a game.

Figures lie and liars figure.

Out of all those SF, Anthony is the one who (1) spends more time on the low block than any other and (2) has played on teams that score more frequesntly due to their style of play.

Those factors alone should present him with more rebounding opportunities.

Note that he averages almost a full defensive rebound fewer than those above him. Speaks to his lack of commitment on that end of the floor.

He's the one of those players who has more opportunities to pass out of low post double teams...again on teams that, by design, score a lot. Yet the low assist totals. And be sure to note the lousy assist/TO numbers.

[Simple Jack]

Figures lie and liars figure.

Out of all those SF, Anthony is the one who (1) spends more time on the low block than any other and (2) has played on teams that score more frequesntly due to their style of play.

Those factors alone should present him with more rebounding opportunities.

Note that he averages almost a full defensive rebound fewer than those above him. Speaks to his lack of commitment on that end of the floor.

He's the one of those players who has more opportunities to pass out of low post double teams...again on teams that, by design, score a lot. Yet the low assist totals. And be sure to note the lousy assist/TO numbers.

In all fairness, he has a higher rebounding % than Durant as well as a few others on that list meaning he grabs a higher % of available rebounds.

[Killbot]

Kobe. Media and fans overrate him.

[Basketball Dirk]

Ummm kobe's the best closer in the game. if he's overrated then everyone is.

:facepalm

[no pun intended]

Kevin Durant and Kevin Love. Seriously.

[BrilliantLegacy]

Sad to say, but it's Kobe. He is great and all, but people over rate this guy like crazy. Dude can't even win a single game against Dallas Mavs while his team is STACKED. You have 3 big guys that can start in any team. Kobe also likes to jack up stupid shots. When he fails to win for the Lakers, the blame is always on Pau Gasol.

[OldSchoolBBall]

How or better yet WHY is Kobe the most overrated player in history? Not saying I disagree, just wondering why you believe that.

When idiot columnists start saying stuff like he's the best player in the game in 2001 (despite it being Shaq's league), or that he's as good as or better than Jordan in 2000 (yes, I heard this in 2000, when Kobe arguably wasn't even a top 8 player in the league - I recall Steve Snapper Jones saying this on-air during a game; Bill Walton was incredulous), and when his fans think he's better than Jordan, and is the GOAT, despite doing literally NOTHING in his career to warrant such acclamation (relative to the standards other GOATs like MJ/KAJ have set), then yeah, he's the most overrated player in history. There have been two players who have played their careers alongside him (Shaq/Duncan) who are better, and another two (Wade/Lebron) who are arguably equal or, in Lebron's case, possibly superior. Yet somehow Kobe is the GOAT? Better than MJ? Like I said: most overrated player in history. Look no further than his last few defensive first team selections for further proof.

[che guevara]

Up until about a month ago, Kobe. Plenty of people were still calling him the best player in the league after the first round, which is a joke. He doesn't have the impact of a top 5 player anymore.

Now, Melo. He gets called a superstar, and gets the "best scorer in the league" title, when he's done absolutely nothing to deserve either of those labels.


LeBron's a slightly better player in 09-10 though. Better jumper, better numbers, better closer, better game-management skills - all while still being a freak athletically. He was a better player. I'll take 09-10 LeBron over every player in NBA history outside of peak MJ, Shaq and Kareem. Curious to know why LOKI thinks he was overrated that year, because I think he's dead wrong.
I could go either way on that one. Lebron's PER was slightly higher in '09 (I usually never use PER, but it's fine when comparing different seasons from one player), he shot FTs and threes a little better (40% from three after the allstar break), he took better care of the ball and had one of the greatest playoff runs ever. Had Lebron not gotten the elbow injury last year I think he would have clearly had a better season, but he did.

And the injury absolutely did effect him - look at his shooting numbers late in the season:

Pre-allstar: 36.1% 3P, 77.6% FT
Post-allstar: 29.4% 3P, 74.7% FT

And he shot just 26% on threes and 72.9% on FTs in March and April combined.

[Marv_Albert]

Amare Stoudemire

[Kobe24Clutch]

Sad to say, but it's Kobe. He is great and all, but people over rate this guy like crazy. Dude can't even win a single game against Dallas Mavs while his team is STACKED. You have 3 big guys that can start in any team. Kobe also likes to jack up stupid shots. When he fails to win for the Lakers, the blame is always on Pau Gasol.
:facepalm

[kaiiu]

lol @ these f@ggots still thinkin that ELBOW injury was real :roll: :roll:

[knicksman]

Up until about a month ago, Kobe. Plenty of people were still calling him the best player in the league after the first round, which is a joke. He doesn't have the impact of a top 5 player anymore.

Now, Melo. He gets called a superstar, and gets the "best scorer in the league" title, when he's done absolutely nothing to deserve either of those labels.


I could go either way on that one. Lebron's PER was slightly higher in '09 (I usually never use PER, but it's fine when comparing different seasons from one player), he shot FTs and threes a little better (40% from three after the allstar break), he took better care of the ball and had one of the greatest playoff runs ever. Had Lebron not gotten the elbow injury last year I think he would have clearly had a better season, but he did.

And the injury absolutely did effect him - look at his shooting numbers late in the season:

Pre-allstar: 36.1% 3P, 77.6% FT
Post-allstar: 29.4% 3P, 74.7% FT

And he shot just 26% on threes and 72.9% on FTs in March and April combined.

im sure only idiots think that melo hasnt accomplished anything when lebron could be a first round exit or cant even make the playoffs if he was on the west. melo is 11-4 against lebron so thats how overrated lebron is

[DaHeezy]

Paul Pierce

Really was never much until given the gift of a deadly shooter and a defensive/offensive post presence.

Melo wouldn't be in this category had he been given the same talents

[FourthTenor]

Paul Pierce

Really was never much until given the gift of a deadly shooter and a defensive/offensive post presence.

Melo wouldn't be in this category had he been given the same talents


I didnt watch a lot of him before the Big 3 came together but he was definitely legit in their playoff runs.

Played both ends of the floor very well. And it's not like anyone (but himself) considers him the best in the league, or a top 10 all time or anything. So I personally wouldnt call him over rated.

And I would definitely take Pierce over Melo. Smarter player, plays defense, can shoot better from outside so he doesnt need the ball to be effective.

[The Next Jordan]

Two words. Kevin Durant

[Mr. Jabbar]

DRose gonna flood this thead real soon :oldlol: