You're my dude Rose... BUT STOP CHOKING!!!!

[Bigsmoke]

MVP D-Rose CHOKES horribly vs the Heat in ECF Game 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyllINeA46U


WTF man. Its like Rose been the best clutch player throughout the season and Lebron been the choker and now its the other way around.


well.. it was a nice season. :cheers:

[Askmeificare]

time to go fishing

[King Lebron LBJ]

He's too young his time isn't just yet

[Derrick]

If it makes you feel better, Chris bosh is still gay :roll:

[Skep]

Wont be getting that number "7" anytime soon :cheers:

[Bigsmoke]

He's too young his time isn't just yet


Lebron was 22 when he was in the Finals and pulled the greatest performance since MJ's retirement vs the Pistons.

[HorryIsMyMVP]

He's too young his time isn't just yet
His time is never lol.

[NuggetsFan]

Uhh when was Rose ever considered the best clutch player through the season?. Anyways look forward to watching Bulls fans justify 23 points on 27 shots and 6 assists with 7 turnovers. Including going 1-2 at the line and missing 2 jumpers in a crucial moment(One was airballed).

Not being a hater or trying not to be anyways but talk about laying an egg in a crucial game. Down 3-1 compared to tying the series up going back home.

[SebasMiamiFan]

Well Lebron played great defense on Rose that last play. Great job staying in front of him.

[greymatter]

Choking/chucking, whatever. There's your 2011 MVP.

[donald_trump]

let me just say, im not a hater, just making an observation.

i was impressed by roses play early on in the season. picking his shots, and carrying the team. making the right plays.

now? the defense of the bulls has dramatically improved as the season went on, and rose no longer needed to play at that level and i think he let himself go in terms of shot selection.
he puts up 25+ shots nearly every game or there about. im starting to view his games where he does hit a lot of shots as unimpressive. of course if you take that many shots every game, you will have a game where you eventually get 40-50 points.

he reminds me of stackhouse in detroit. i was never once impressed with his scoring outbursts. why? same reason as rose. he put up so many shots that he was bound to go on nice runs eventually.

dude just needs to play smarter.

[Askmeificare]

Like the bull's never lost 2... oh wait 3.. oh wait 4 in arrow

[oh the horror]

He's too young his time isn't just yet



And thats all it is. What the kid has done with this Chicago team at his age, is nothing short of amazing thus far. Chicago wouldnt even BE this deep in the playoffs without Derrick Rose.


They honestly need another scorer to help relieve some of his load though. He simply cannot carry an entire team on his back throughout games like that.

[3zazer1]

We all said he was the mini Lebron, LOL

[donald_trump]

Lebron was 22 when he was in the Finals and pulled the greatest performance since MJ's retirement vs the Pistons.

lebron was also way better than rose at that point.

[King Lebron LBJ]

Lebron was 22 when he was in the Finals and pulled the greatest performance since MJ's retirement vs the Pistons.
He's no lebron

[3zazer1]

Choking/chucking, whatever. There's your 2011 MVP.

I don't see how you don't give these damning actions to Lebron,

Giving up on your team, Disloyalty, thats your 2010 MVP

[Bigsmoke]

what make things worse is that we cant blame Boozer :cry:

[kidcoolangot]

iunno if you call that choking but lebron just played some great D. shoulda passed the ball in that time. gotta stop with the iso when a good defender is on you

[Bigsmoke]

I don't see how you don't give these damning actions to Lebron,

Giving up on your team, Disloyalty, thats your 2010 MVP

Lebron is going to win a title this year so he is our MVP :confusedshrug:

[Bigsmoke]

iunno if you call that choking but lebron just played some great D. shoulda passed the ball in that time. gotta stop with the iso when a good defender is on you

did u see some of the passes he gave up in overtime?

[demons2005]

The problem is he's not really dangerous in the IQ department yet. But that comes with time. He got them this far with no help which is a legendary feat already

[Samurai Swoosh]

Lebron was 22 when he was in the Finals and pulled the greatest performance since MJ's retirement vs the Pistons.
And still played terrible the rest of that series ...

Funny how people just remember that game.

Then went onto have the worst Finals showing for a "superstar" I've ever seen.

Why are people cool with LeBron choking last year against the Celtics in the 2nd round ... and then dipping out on his hometown like a disloyal punk ass ..

But Rose is being blitzed when he brings the ball up court by two players.

And the Heat have the benefit of having two MVP caliber players, and their third best player is out playing anyone on the Bulls roster.

Really?

[Bigsmoke]

And still played terrible the rest of that series ...

Funny how people just remember that game.

Then went onto have the worst Finals showing for a "superstar" I've ever seen.

Why are people cool with LeBron choking last year against the Celtics in the 2nd round ...

But Rose is being blitzed when he brings the ball up court.

And the Heat have the benefit of having two MVP caliber players, and their third best player is out playing anyone on the Bulls roster.

Really?

whats going on "right now" is what matters.


"DAMN WE LOST! But its cool because Lebron lost to the Celtics last year"
what kind of shit it that?

[Samurai Swoosh]

whats going on "right now" is what matters.


"DAMN WE LOST! But its cool because Lebron lost to the Celtics last year"
what kind of shit it that?
Just pointing out the dumb hypocricy in your statements because you smoke so much LeBron pole that you forget LeBron played average at best that series against the Pistons. And was piss poor terrible against the Spurs in the Finals.

[imdaman99]

bulls and thunder fall short this year, but next year diff story. they gonna meet in the finals and produce an epic 7 game series and one of them 2 will win :lol ok fine, the thunder win.

[Smoke117]

While I thought he was overrated and didn't particularly deserve the MVP during the regular season...he still played a much better and more balanced game. As the defenses have got stingier and more intense in the playoffs he just seems to throw up more and more ill advised shots. As the teams pg now is the time to try to get easy buckets and get the team involved as a whole...not go into hero mode. There is no reason for him to be launching six 3pters a game the way he is especially when he's shooting .262%. That isn't even counting the 1/9 today either.

[kidcoolangot]

did u see some of the passes he gave up in overtime?
Yes, that one pass to ronnie brewer was great. but other than that he shoulda passed the ball on the other plays. He wouldnt have gotten blocked by Dwayne. Well in overtime he didnt really have much plays to make since the bulls were just getting turnovers but in the 4th he should of being driving and kicking it out to korver or set up boozer for a jumpshot

[DMAVS41]

Just pointing out the dumb hypocricy in your statements because you smoke so much LeBron pole that you forget LeBron played average at best that series against the Pistons. And was piss poor terrible against the Spurs in the Finals.

LOL

Why don't you compare the Bulls roster this year to the roster Lebron had in 07. Its a joke. This bulls team is twice as good....literally.

Rose is playing like shit right now. Just the truth. He's making terrible decisions, horrible passes, and jacking up terrible shots.

He's killing the offense because he's not a point guard. This is what happens when he doesn't score efficiently. Its impossible to win. The fact that these games have even been close is a testament to how stacked this bulls team actually is.

The excuses for Rose are pathetic now.

[Miserio]

He needs a consistent sidekick

[gmoney9]

D-Rose: "Remember this number, 8.27"
:lol















D-Rose my boy though

[Doranku]

LOL

Why don't you compare the Bulls roster this year to the roster Lebron had in 07. Its a joke. This bulls team is twice as good....literally.

Rose is playing like shit right now. Just the truth. He's making terrible decisions, horrible passes, and jacking up terrible shots.

He's killing the offense because he's not a point guard. This is what happens when he doesn't score efficiently. Its impossible to win. The fact that these games have even been close is a testament to how stacked this bulls team actually is.

The excuses for Rose are pathetic now.

Both teams won with their defense. Bron had a lot of poor shooting nights in the playoffs during that run as well.

[DMAVS41]

He needs a consistent sidekick

He needs to learn how to play point guard.

[sh0wtime]

You have to give Lebron credit though tonight, he played fantastic defense on him, it bothered him very much as Lebron was quick enough to stay with him and big enough to make him take his most uncomfortable jumpshots.

[DMAVS41]

Both teams won with their defense. Bron had a lot of poor shooting nights in the playoffs during that run as well.

Yep. And Lebron's team was much worse overall. Do you disagree?

[50inchvertical]

LOL

Why don't you compare the Bulls roster this year to the roster Lebron had in 07. Its a joke. This bulls team is twice as good....literally.

Rose is playing like shit right now. Just the truth. He's making terrible decisions, horrible passes, and jacking up terrible shots.

He's killing the offense because he's not a point guard. This is what happens when he doesn't score efficiently. Its impossible to win. The fact that these games have even been close is a testament to how stacked this bulls team actually is.

The excuses for Rose are pathetic now.
Especially given the extent they go to to crucify Westbrook for the same thing, and how everyone likes to claim Rose is so far ahead of him, and everybody else for that matter.

[comerb]

If it makes you feel better, Chris bosh is still gay :roll:

We know who's on the receiving end don't we?

[DMAVS41]

Especially given the extent they go to to crucify Westbrook for the same thing, and how everyone likes to claim Rose is so far ahead of him, and everybody else for that matter.

Yep. Once again, both Deng and Boozer have proven they can score consistently without Rose. At some point Rose needs to shoulder more of the blame.

Not to mention that the Bulls are actually quite better defensively without him on the floor.

[imdaman99]

Especially given the extent they go to to crucify Westbrook for the same thing, and how everyone likes to claim Rose is so far ahead of him, and everybody else for that matter.
so who do you think is playing worse, rose or westbrook? include your bias.

i may say westbrook, just cuz the big lead they blew last night. but thats also team related, it just still stings.

[Bigsmoke]

He needs a consistent sidekick

Boozer or Deng?

either way...they both played well.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Boozer or Deng?

either way...they both played well.
Neither are prolific or consistent enough to be a reliable 2nd option.

That's the point.

God, you're dumb.

[kidcoolangot]

He needs to learn how to play point guard.

Its true though, He needs a person who can score consistently. He cant rely on having boozer, or deng having off and on nights. The sidekick doesnt have to be a all-star just a player who can help him close out games and a player who can help him shoot baskets in needed times. His team is full of defensive players and when a defensive team faces another defensive team; better offense wins. So if rose had another player to help him score bulls would be doing better in this series.

[bingo123]

And still played terrible the rest of that series ...

Funny how people just remember that game.

Then went onto have the worst Finals showing for a "superstar" I've ever seen.

Why are people cool with LeBron choking last year against the Celtics in the 2nd round ... and then dipping out on his hometown like a disloyal punk ass ..

But Rose is being blitzed when he brings the ball up court by two players.

And the Heat have the benefit of having two MVP caliber players, and their third best player is out playing anyone on the Bulls roster.

Really?

You have to be joking.

[DMAVS41]

Its true though, He needs a person who can score consistently. He cant rely on having boozer, or deng having off and on nights. The sidekick doesnt have to be a all-star just a player who can help him close out games and a player who can help him shoot baskets in needed times. His team is full of defensive players and when a defensive team faces another defensive team; better offense wins. So if rose had another player to help him score bulls would be doing better in this series.

What?

Boozer is a 2nd option. LOL.

You want a bad 2nd option? Try Jason Terry on the Mavs the last 7 years.

What you people don't understand is that Rose is inhibiting the play of his teammates offensively when he plays like this.

[50inchvertical]

so who do you think is playing worse, rose or westbrook? include your bias.

i may say westbrook, just cuz the big lead they blew last night. but thats also team related, it just still stings.
They are both doing the EXACT same things.

Didn;t Rose pound the ball for the entirety of the last 2 possessions in regulation only to shoot and clang a jumper?

He didn't score in ot, in fact got his shot blocked twice, and had a live ball turnover that lead to a Wade basket.

Game 4 and Game 3, he managed 2 pts in the 4th quarter.

He is shooting 36%fg this series and not getting to the line enough to makeup for it, so you have 69 shots for 63 pts the last 3 games.

More tos than assists? Yep

Again, same shit Russ is doing and in many cases, even worst. But he'll get a pass

[Bigsmoke]

Neither are prolific or consistent enough to be a reliable 2nd option.

That's the point.

God, you're dumb.

thats because Rose is garbage and cant find guys idiot

[Samurai Swoosh]

thats because Rose is garbage and cant find guys idiot
Rose is garbage? lol ... really?

Bigsmoke outs himself.

:oldlol:

[Bigsmoke]

Rose is garbage? lol ... really?

Bigsmoke outs himself.

:oldlol:

ummm... u can stop quoting my posts.

[kidcoolangot]

What?

Boozer is a 2nd option. LOL.

You want a bad 2nd option? Try Jason Terry on the Mavs the last 7 years.

What you people don't understand is that Rose is inhibiting the play of his teammates offensively when he plays like this.

Lol really? Boozer? scores 13 ppg in the playoffs. Noah is scoring more than him lol and hes getting most of it from hustle plays and offensive rebounds. Watch the games lol. You can see Rose is trying to create plays for his team but his team doesnt come through cause of good defense. That is why rose makes idiotic plays and forces the drives. He does not need to learn to play point guard. He cant be a passing guard when the offense is him.

[catch24]

I gotta dick on Rose for a quick second. Let me first say I've never liked this guys style of play and another guy is Westbrook. These guys are shotjackers pretending to be pointguards; theyre a disgrace to the position for real. Not once have I seen either of these knuckleheads even run the baseline and get easy feeds for their Bigs. They just drive against multiple defenders trying to be heroes AND when they get their assists, the shots they setup for their teammates aren't even good looks. This is why I take Chris Paul; hes head and shoulders above everybody at his position.

[greymatter]

I don't see how you don't give these damning actions to Lebron,

Giving up on your team, Disloyalty, thats your 2010 MVP

Lebron isn't the one choking and making bad decisions anymore. I was laughing it up when the Heat played the Crying Game with their team of divas. That team is now gone and in its place is the team everyone was expecting Miami to be.

In any case, Lebron-stans aren't quite as annoying as Rose or Kobe stans have been this season. So for any fan of the game whose team isn't one of the major cities whose fans bitched up a storm when LBJ spurned their team for Miami, it's satisfying to see these whiny hos get sent packing.

[Bigsmoke]

Lol really? Boozer? scores 13 ppg in the playoffs. Noah is scoring more than him lol and hes getting most of it from hustle plays and offensive rebounds. Watch the games lol. You can see Rose is trying to create plays for his team but his team doesnt come through cause of good defense. That is why rose makes idiotic plays and forces the drives. He does not need to learn to play point guard. He cant be a passing guard when the offense is him.

good defense or not. Rose' turnover been ****ing ridiculous "Rza voice"

Its funny how you are dissing Boozer for averaging 13ppg when he's been great in the games that we lose. There is nobody to blame but Derrick Rose. He's a "scoring PG" thats scoring like shit in the last 3 games.

I'm glad I have 2 Lebron James jerseys hanging up in closet and 0 jerseys from Debrick Choke

[DMAVS41]

Lol really? Boozer? scores 13 ppg in the playoffs. Noah is scoring more than him lol and hes getting most of it from hustle plays and offensive rebounds. Watch the games lol. You can see Rose is trying to create plays for his team but his team doesnt come through cause of good defense. That is why rose makes idiotic plays and forces the drives. He does not need to learn to play point guard. He cant be a passing guard when the offense is him.

yes. boozer. the guy that has averaged 19/12/3 for his career in the playoffs before playing with rose.

lol

do you people really not understand that when rose plays inefficient shot jacking basketball it impacts his team. 27 ****ing shots tonight? are you serious?

he's the pg. he's not kobe or lebron or wade. he's the ****ing pg. damn thats awful.

[Bigsmoke]

yes. boozer. the guy that has averaged 19/12/3 for his career in the playoffs before playing with rose.

lol

do you people really not understand that when rose plays inefficient shot jacking basketball it impacts his team. 27 ****ing shots tonight? are you serious?

he's the pg. he's not kobe or lebron or wade. he's the ****ing pg. damn thats awful.

to be on some real shit.

I bet a couple of people at me job that the Bulls were going to win today. I'm just mad as hell right now.

[The Decision]

yes. boozer. the guy that has averaged 19/12/3 for his career in the playoffs before playing with rose.

lol

do you people really not understand that when rose plays inefficient shot jacking basketball it impacts his team. 27 ****ing shots tonight? are you serious?

he's the pg. he's not kobe or lebron or wade. he's the ****ing pg. damn thats awful.

How many of those shots were end of the quarter shots? Atleast 3...
One at the first Q, third and 4th!
That's not even counting the bailout shots he has to take at the end of the clock.

At total he took about 20 or 21 shots!
now STFU!

[catch24]

yes. boozer. the guy that has averaged 19/12/3 for his career in the playoffs before playing with rose.

lol

do you people really not understand that when rose plays inefficient shot jacking basketball it impacts his team. 27 ****ing shots tonight? are you serious?

he's the pg. he's not kobe or lebron or wade. he's the ****ing pg. damn thats awful.

It's embarrassing. I get on Kobe all the time for shotjacking; I can't imagine what Bulls fan feel when you got your PG doing sh*t like this.

[kidcoolangot]

good defense or not. Rose' turnover been ****ing ridiculous "Rza voice"

Its funny how you are dissing Boozer for averaging 13ppg when he's been great in the games that we lose. There is nobody to blame but Derrick Rose. He's a "scoring PG" thats scoring like shit in the last 3 games.

I'm glad I have 2 Lebron James jerseys hanging up in closet and 0 jerseys from Debrick Choke

Good defense is what makes him get those turnovers. I meant Deng is scoring better than Boozer btw. All im saying is Rose needs a second scoring option that can help him when needed. Someone who can create his own shots or play off the ball really well. I hate it when people disregard scoring pgs because there was never a player who became a champion. There was iverson but lakers are just too much to handle just like the heat is now. Scoring pgs are good dont disregard because thats not what they do.

[DMAVS41]

How many of those shots were end of the quarter shots? Atleast 3...
One at the first Q, third and 4th!
That's not even counting the bailout shots he has to take at the end of the clock.

now STFU!

i don't care if it was only 22 shots. it was a close game. the bulls got terrible shots because rose can't even make simple passes. its a joke. i'm sorry. i'm sick of hearing how deng and boozer are just these scrubs on offense.

and i'll say it again. Rose just has to play average for the Bulls to win. Bulls are still undefeated if Rose shoots over 43% in the playoffs.

What more do you people want? Rose has played like complete shit in this series and yet his team has been close in every 4th qtr. LOL

Oh, and Rose is now 2-14 in the 4th qtrs of the last 3 games......damn

[Bigsmoke]

Good defense is what makes him get those turnovers. I meant Deng is scoring better than Boozer btw. All im saying is Rose needs a second scoring option that can help him when needed. Someone who can create his own shots or play off the ball really well. I hate it when people disregard scoring pgs because there was never a player who became a champion. There was iverson but lakers are just too much to handle just like the heat is now. Scoring pgs are good dont disregard because thats not what they do.

Its not all about a "second scorer". Boozer and Deng are two good players that could score and they proved that in the last 2 games that Drose ****ed up in when his shot jacking and turnover and choking.

for the record. Deng is averaging 17ppg in this playoffs if that's not "2nd option" enough

Both Boozer and Deng are better "second options" than anybody on the Mavs.

Lets see if the Hornets would trade Boozer and Deng for West and Ariza

[The Decision]

i don't care if it was only 22 shots. it was a close game. the bulls got terrible shots because rose can't even make simple passes. its a joke. i'm sorry. i'm sick of hearing how deng and boozer are just these scrubs on offense.

and i'll say it again. Rose just has to play average for the Bulls to win. Bulls are still undefeated if Rose shoots over 43% in the playoffs.

What more do you people want? Rose has played like complete shit in this series and yet his team has been close in every 4th qtr. LOL

Oh, and Rose is now 2-14 in the 4th qtrs of the last 3 games......damn

Yes rose cost Chicago the game, he had 3 opportunity and failed.
The missed free-throw would have won them the win.
Then the two missed shots at the end the 4th.

Wade has played worse than Rose and his team is up 3-1? LOL!

STFU already, you are putting all the blame on him.
When more could be said for Miami's great interior defense, Tim thibs horrible offensive sets and ofcourse his teammate's inability to make outside shots!

[kidcoolangot]

yes. boozer. the guy that has averaged 19/12/3 for his career in the playoffs before playing with rose.

lol

do you people really not understand that when rose plays inefficient shot jacking basketball it impacts his team. 27 ****ing shots tonight? are you serious?

he's the pg. he's not kobe or lebron or wade. he's the ****ing pg. damn thats awful.

Lol honestly? your basing it on one game. Yes todays game was rose's fault. But the argument is that rose needs a sidekick that can score consistently. The past few games Rose has been trying to create shots in clutch moments cause there is none who can. Tom had to bring out korver in late games to score. You know how bad that is? Argument is that Rose needs another scorer he can rely on.

[DMAVS41]

Yes rose cost Chicago the game, he had 3 opportunity and failed.
The missed free-throw would have won them the win.
Then the two missed shots at the end the 4th.

Wade has played worse than Rose and his team is up 3-1? LOL!

STFU already, you are putting all the blame on him.
When more could be said for Miami's great interior defense, Tim thibs horrible offensive sets and ofcourse his teammate's inability to make outside shots!

Not at all. Wade has been horrible as well. Never said otherwise.

[KOLBCTEW]

Wade has played worse than Rose and his team is up 3-1? LOL!!
Actually they've played pretty much about the same.


STFU already, you are putting all the blame on him.
When more could be said for Miami's great interior defense, Tim thibs horrible offensive sets and ofcourse his teammate's inability to make outside shots!
So what if Miami has great defense, your still supposed to be hitting your shots (as your going to face great defenses that should not be an excuse) to give your team the best chance to win. If nobody else is hitting them fine, but you did what you could.

[DMAVS41]

Lol honestly? your basing it on one game. Yes todays game was rose's fault. But the argument is that rose needs a sidekick that can score consistently. The past few games Rose has been trying to create shots in clutch moments cause there is none who can. Tom had to bring out korver in late games to score. You know how bad that is? Argument is that Rose needs another scorer he can rely on.

he has two guys that can score consistently. deng and boozer have proven they can average over 17 ppg in the playoffs.

rose just has to get them better shots and stop dominating the ball and jacking up so many threes a game. if rose has no help, why does his team always shoot a better fg% than rose does?

doesn't make sense.

basing it off one game? i'm basing it off the entire playoffs. rose has played like shit. the bulls have won with their defense and rebounding....two things rose does not impact at all.

[kidcoolangot]

Its not all about a "second scorer". Boozer and Deng are two good players that could score and they proved that in the last 2 games that Drose ****ed up in when his shot jacking and turnover and choking.

for the record. Deng is averaging 17ppg in this playoffs if that's not "2nd option" enough

Both Boozer and Deng are better "second options" than anybody on the Mavs.

Lets see if the Hornets would trade Boozer and Deng for West and Ariza

Yes its true Boozer and deng are good offensive players, but they score off plays.Plays can be broken up easily with good defense. What im saying is rose needs a guy who can take pressure of him offensively and create plays for themselves. They're going to be a complete team if rose has that man

[The Decision]

So what if Miami has great defense, your still supposed to be hitting your shots (as your going to face great defenses that should not be an excuse) to give your team the best chance to win. If nobody else is hitting them fine, but you did what you could.

Why? because Rose has to face double teams almost everytime he touches the ball because of Thibs retarded P&R offense.

Secondly when Rose does get to the rim, the defense converges on him and he meets Joel anthony who alters or blocks his shot.

He is playing against more defensive pressure than Lebron and Wade combine.
They are being played one on one but rose gets doubled on the perimeter at the three point line!

So its quite different!

[Bigsmoke]

he has two guys that can score consistently. deng and boozer have proven they can average over 17 ppg in the playoffs.

rose just has to get them better shots and stop dominating the ball and jacking up so many threes a game. if rose has no help, why does his team always shoot a better fg% than rose does?

doesn't make sense.

basing it off one game? i'm basing it off the entire playoffs. rose has played like shit. the bulls have won with their defense and rebounding....two things rose does not impact at all.

100% right

[Bogus_Sting]

Is it possible that Dwight could go to Chicago?

[kidcoolangot]

he has two guys that can score consistently. deng and boozer have proven they can average over 17 ppg in the playoffs.

rose just has to get them better shots and stop dominating the ball and jacking up so many threes a game. if rose has no help, why does his team always shoot a better fg% than rose does?

doesn't make sense.

basing it off one game? i'm basing it off the entire playoffs. rose has played like shit. the bulls have won with their defense and rebounding....two things rose does not impact at all.

Yes its true Boozer and deng are good offensive players, but they score off plays.Plays can be broken up easily with good defense. What im saying is rose needs a guy who can take pressure of him offensively and create plays for themselves. They're going to be a complete team if rose has that man. Its true though Rose has been dominating the ball this playoffs but that would not be happening if he can rely on a second scoring option.

[JChurches]

Lol honestly? your basing it on one game. Yes todays game was rose's fault. But the argument is that rose needs a sidekick that can score consistently. The past few games Rose has been trying to create shots in clutch moments cause there is none who can. Tom had to bring out korver in late games to score. You know how bad that is? Argument is that Rose needs another scorer he can rely on.


If Rose would actually look to get his teammates going and stop jacking up ill-advised shots, we wouldn't be having this debate. Sorry Bulls fans, but as of now Roseverson is overrated- deal with it.

[The Decision]

rose just has to get them better shots and stop dominating the ball and jacking up so many threes a game. if rose has no help, why does his team always shoot a better fg% than rose does?

Its hard to setup your teammates when you are getting doubled team on the perimeter and have to give up the ball. and your coach keeps running the same freaking play that allows it.

[Bigsmoke]

Yes its true Boozer and deng are good offensive players, but they score off plays.Plays can be broken up easily with good defense. What im saying is rose needs a guy who can take pressure of him offensively and create plays for themselves. They're going to be a complete team if rose has that man

so you're saying Jason Terry is? dude get his buckets from wide open threes.

to me, Deng offense is pretty much simular to rip hamilton's with way more slashing to the rim. Just because they can score from Iso doesnt mean they could lit up the score board. Deng was averaging like... 22 a game in the playoffs when Rose was still in Simeon

[kidcoolangot]

he has two guys that can score consistently. deng and boozer have proven they can average over 17 ppg in the playoffs.

rose just has to get them better shots and stop dominating the ball and jacking up so many threes a game. if rose has no help, why does his team always shoot a better fg% than rose does?

doesn't make sense.

basing it off one game? i'm basing it off the entire playoffs. rose has played like shit. the bulls have won with their defense and rebounding....two things rose does not impact at all.

Because honestly, good defense can stop their "second options" eaassily. Thats why Rose is dominating the ball. What ive been trying to say all this time. They need a player that can score for themselves.

[KOLBCTEW]

Why? because Rose has to face double teams almost everytime he touches the ball because of Thibs retarded P&R offense.

Secondly when Rose does get to the rim, the defense converges on him and he meets Joel anthony who alters or blocks his shot.

He is playing against more defensive pressure than Lebron and Wade combine.
They are being played one on one but rose gets doubled on the perimeter at the three point line!

So its quite different!
Wade put up great numbers against the Boston Celtics surrounded by scrub and role players facing multiple double teams so facing a great defense is no excuse for not performing.
It's the NBA for crying out loud your supposed to face great defenses.:facepalm

Wade and Lebron have had more defensive pressure in their history yet still manage to put up better numbers just the same.

[KOLBCTEW]

Its hard to setup your teammates when you are getting doubled team on the perimeter and have to give up the ball. and your coach keeps running the same freaking play that allows it.Uh... So...
If your a great player you should be overcoming that and doing what you need to do for your team to win.

Since when did it become a compliment if players struggle against great defenses? If anything players are often criticized for only being able to perform against inferior competition.

[kidcoolangot]

so you're saying Jason Terry isnt? dude get his buckets from wide open threes.

saying Deng offense is pretty much simular to rip hamilton's. Just because the can score from Iso doesnt mean they could lit up the score board. Deng was averaging like... 22 a game in the playoffs when Rose was still in Simeon

Jason terry and rip hamilton can create shots for themselves while boozer and deng can not and deng was simply averaging 22 points because they had no one.

[Bigsmoke]

Jason terry and rip hamilton can create shots for themselves while boozer and deng can not and deng was simply averaging 22 points because they had no one.

so Terry and Rip can create their shots better than Boozer and Deng.:lol

ok.

[kidcoolangot]

so Terry and Rip can create their shots better than Boozer and Deng.:lol

ok.
ugh read what i say lol. In clutch moments or need to score a basket moments, when defense turns up, boozer and deng cant score sht. thats why they need a man who can create shots for themselves

[The Decision]

Wade put up great numbers against the Boston Celtics surrounded by scrub and role players facing multiple double teams so facing a great defense is no excuse for not performing.
It's the NBA for crying out loud your supposed to face great defenses.:facepalm

Wade and Lebron have had more defensive pressure in their history yet still manage to put up better numbers just the same.


Sorry, Wade wasn't facing double teams. Not only does Rose face double and some times triple team, but it extends all the way to the perimeter.


Secondly, the PG position is quite different and double teams are quite effective because it puts the offensive sequence into disarray. Rose can't play off the ball because he has to be the PG.

If he was playing off the ball and have someone else run the offense, which is what thibs should do, he would dominate more.

Finally why can't wade not SUCK while playing with great teammates and less defensive pressure? LOL!

[DMAVS41]

Jason terry and rip hamilton can create shots for themselves while boozer and deng can not and deng was simply averaging 22 points because they had no one.

jason terry gets almost all of his shots on the pick and roll with dirk or spot up jumpers.

lol at the idea that terry creates his own shots. its all almost exclusively off Dirk.

in fact, the entire mavs team other than barea relies on some type of dirk action to get their shots.

thats the difference. Dirk is playing efficient offense and making the right plays. rose is doing the opposite.

and if he is getting doubled and being forced to give up the ball....why is he taking 27 shots? its either awful play or just straight up dumb play. i don't care how you define it. its bad.

[DMAVS41]

Sorry, Wade wasn't facing double teams. Not only does Rose face double and some times triple team, but it extends all the way to the perimeter.


Secondly, the PG position is quite different and double teams are quite effective because it puts the offensive sequence into disarray. Rose can't play off the ball because he has to be the PG.

If he was playing off the ball and have someone else run the offense, which is what thibs should do, he would dominate more.

Finally why can't wade not SUCK while playing with great teammates and less defensive pressure? LOL!

then why is he taking so many shots? what kind of selfish player take shots being triple teamed?

[tpols]

so Terry and Rip can create their shots better than Boozer and Deng.:lol

ok.
Boozer should have gotten more touches this game. There were way too many rose isos. Boozer was scoring very well in game three during isos but the coach isn't running plays for him. Thibs has been a bad offensive coach so far in this series.

And terry can create his shot a whole lot better than deng.

Just because a player has averaged 20ppg in the past, doesn't mean that player can create his own shot. This is deng's offensive arsenal: either he shoots it or he gives that long winded pump fake and dribble drives by. He's got no cross over, no change of pace, and weak handles. Terry, on the other hand, has a nice crossover, he's fast as hell, and he has a quicker first step. Terry is also much better in the pick and roll and he's a better shooter.

[KOLBCTEW]

Sorry, Wade wasn't facing double teams. Not only does Rose face double and some times triple team, but it extends all the way to the perimeter.

:oldlol: Did you watch the playoffs last year with the Heat against Boston. A popular Celtics blog called the defense they played against Wade's teammates disrespectful to them.


Secondly, the PG position is quite different and double teams are quite effective because it puts the offensive sequence into disarray. Rose can't play off the ball because he has to be the PG.
Your a point guard and your still having difficulty finding the open man while your being double teamed :facepalm That's not a compliment..


If he was playing off the ball and have someone else run the offense, which is what thibs should do, he would dominate more..

:oldlol: So all of a sudden he's playing the wrong position now??
[QUOTE=The Decision]
Finally why can't wade not SUCK while playing with great teammates and less defensive pressure? LOL! He's having a bad series, it happens.. but he's doing enough for his team to win. Quite frankly this has been the worst playoff series of Wades career so for him this is an anomaly.

[The Decision]

then why is he taking so many shots? what kind of selfish player take shots being triple teamed?

20/21 shots today is not too much when you are the best player on your team.
Secondly majority of those shots are layup attempts at the rim that are either blocked/missed. Some being fouls that are never called!

I'm all for Rose taking less shots, but Bulls are a horrible jump shooting team.
and it has proved to be true this entire series.

[kidcoolangot]

jason terry gets almost all of his shots on the pick and roll with dirk or spot up jumpers.

lol at the idea that terry creates his own shots. its all almost exclusively off Dirk.

in fact, the entire mavs team other than barea relies on some type of dirk action to get their shots.

thats the difference. Dirk is playing efficient offense and making the right plays. rose is doing the opposite.

and if he is getting doubled and being forced to give up the ball....why is he taking 27 shots? its either awful play or just straight up dumb play. i don't care how you define it. its bad.

Jason Terry can hit shots when needed thats the diffrence, and yea jason terry cant create his own shots and true dirk is playing efficient offense against OKC not the HEAT. Heat is obviously the better defensive team and OKC is not. Thats why Rose is struggling cause of GOOD DEFENSE. What im saying is (again) Rose needs a guy who can create his own shots or shoot shots consistently.

[The Decision]

:oldlol: Did you watch the playoffs last year with the Heat against Boston. A popular Celtics blog called the defense they played against Wade's teammates disrespectful to them.



Just watch the games over. and compare them and you will get your answer!



Your a point guard and your still having difficulty finding the open man while your being double teamed :facepalm That's not a compliment..

Did you even watch the game? The double team is coming off of pick and rolls, and off Noah's defender(Anthony). Noah is not a jump shooter so when Rose passes to him, the offense is jammed.

When Rose passes out to Deng or Bogans, same thing. Those guys can't create. So the offense is further jammed!



:oldlol: So all of a sudden he's playing the wrong position now??


Are you retarded?


He's having a bad series, it happens.. but he's doing enough for his team to win.

He's not doing anything. One or two good plays in the game doesn't mean shit, because he was due for it.

[TheAnchorman]

I don't care how much "defensive pressure" Rose has had this series, the winner of the GODAMN MVP TROPHY should not have had such a horrific performance in the 4th and OT. Once again, I repeat this is your most valuable player, the guy who should be the best when it matters, the guy that knows when to carry the team on his back and does it well. Does it mean score? Not necessarily. It means making good plays, good decision making, not giving the ball away :facepalm etc, etc.

Instead we saw two missed shots at the end of regulation, one an airball a la Kobe 1997. We saw 2 crucial turnovers, 2 missed 3 pters in OT, NO points, all during crunch time.

Rose did not simply show it tonight, in a game where he should have solidified his distinction as the MVP. Instead he damaged that distinction.

[Bogus_Sting]

Interesting side note.

If the Heat play the Mavs, 3 players from the 1997 NCAA Championship game will be playing.

Jamaal Magloire, Mike Bibby and Jason Terry.

Even more interesting is that Terry used to be 6th man and Bibby's backup.

[DMAVS41]

Jason Terry can hit shots when needed thats the diffrence, and yea jason terry cant create his own shots and true dirk is playing efficient offense against OKC not the HEAT. Heat is obviously the better defensive team and OKC is not. Thats why Rose is struggling cause of GOOD DEFENSE. What im saying is (again) Rose needs a guy who can create his own shots or shoot shots consistently.

Rose was doing this crap against the pacers as well. He's now shooting 40% for the playoffs.

You can't have everything man. Rose already has two proven 17 plus ppg scorers in deng and boozer and the best defense/rebounding team in the league.

You can't have everything. You can't have the best offensive team and best defensive team and best rebounding team. No team is perfect.

[chazzy]

Watching Westbrook and Rose in these conference finals makes me appreciate CP3's first round wizardry that much more.

[TheAnchorman]

Interesting side note.

If the Heat play the Mavs, 3 players from the 1997 NCAA Championship game will be playing.

Jamaal Magloire, Mike Bibby and Jason Terry.

Even more interesting is that Terry used to be 6th man and Bibby's backup.
I'm actually more interested in which former Sacramento King gets a championship, Bibby or Peja? Those 2 at least deserve it after that flop of a WCF in 2002.

[The Decision]

Watching Westbrook and Rose in these conference finals makes me appreciate CP3's first round wizardry that much more.

More like Lakers horrendous pick and roll & perimeter defense being showcased!
Paul wasn't doing anything special, Lakers were just doing everything wrong.

Lets CP3 get double and triple teamed at the perimeter and then see how his team will perform!

[catch24]

Watching Westbrook and Rose in these conference finals makes me appreciate CP3's first round wizardry that much more.

Amen, bro.

[kidcoolangot]

Rose was doing this crap against the pacers as well. He's now shooting 40% for the playoffs.

You can't have everything man. Rose already has two proven 17 plus ppg scorers in deng and boozer and the best defense/rebounding team in the league.

You can't have everything. You can't have the best offensive team and best defensive team and best rebounding team. No team is perfect.

What? Rose was doing crap against the pacers? had one bad game in game 4 and rest was 30 point games and 20 point games. Ofcourse you cant have everything. Damn do i have to repeat myself again? lol boozer and deng are good offensive players, but can be shut down easily against good defensive teams. Reason they can be shut down easily is cause they make shots off plays. Like i said rose needs a guy who can create shots for himself or score consistently. And ofcourse you cant have everything (unless your the heat) but you can have a solid team that has a good build around your superstar player.

[The Decision]

Amen, bro.

Amening Lakers All time worst perimeter defense? Ummm ok..

IF you replaced cp3 with rose, The hornets would beat the Lakers! :facepalm

[DMAVS41]

What? Rose was doing crap against the pacers? had one bad game in game 4 and rest was 30 point games and 20 point games. Ofcourse you cant have everything. Damn do i have to repeat myself again? lol boozer and deng are good offensive players, but can be shut down easily against good defensive teams. Reason they can be shut down easily is cause they make shots off plays. Like i said rose needs a guy who can create shots for himself or score consistently. And ofcourse you cant have everything (unless your the heat) but you can have a solid team that has a good build around your superstar player.


Jesus man. Thats exactly what Rose has. Rose just needs to learn how to play pg or move over to sg. One or the other.

[DMAVS41]

Amening Lakers All time worst perimeter defense? Ummm ok..

IF you replaced cp3 with rose, The hornets would beat the Lakers! :facepalm

the hornets wouldn't have won a game.

[The Decision]

[/B]

Jesus man. Thats exactly what Rose has. Rose just needs to learn how to play pg or move over to sg. One or the other.

Who draws up the offensive sets/plays for the bulls?

[The Decision]

the hornets wouldn't have won a game.

Berea single-handly tortured the lakers? :wtf:

How much more would rose do?

[KOLBCTEW]

Just watch the games over. and compare them and you will get your answer!.
I have and it was. Doc and Pierce confirmed the same thing as to what they were trying to do to Wade.




Did you even watch the game? The double team is coming off of pick and rolls, and off Noah's defender(Anthony). Noah is not a jump shooter so when Rose passes to him, the offense is jammed.

If Rose passes out to Deng or Bogans, same thing. Those guys can't create. So the offense is further jammed!!.
Offense jammed? I thought Noah was a great passer. Not to mention there's Boozer.




Are you retarded?Yep..





He's not doing anything. One or two good plays in the game doesn't mean shit, because he was due for it.
How is scoring 24 points on 50% shooting and coming up with clutch plays that decided the game not doing anything.

[Lebron23]

Amen, bro.


Next Season Deron and CP3 might get the spot in the all NBA First Team. I hope CP3 and Deron will have a chance to play on a good team, or play with Dwight Howard.

[tpols]

Like i said rose needs a guy who can create shots for himself or score consistently. And ofcourse you cant have everything (unless your the heat) but you can have a solid team that has a good build around your superstar player.
Honestly.. I dont want to excuse rose for his horrible performance, but part of the reason he is having trouble is because of his teammates' inability to create their own shot. Thats something DMAVs is dancing around. He keeps bringing up 'well they were 19ppg scorers' but that doesn't tell you much. there have been plenty of 15+ppg scorers in this league that aren't good at creating offense for themselves, but rely on others to get their production. Deng has ZERO iso ability. Boozer has decent iso ability in the post, but for some reason he isn't asking for any possesions for himself.

The bulls gameplan is just as much responsible for their offensive ineptness as is rose. Every play down the stretch is a rose iso.. they should be swinging it around though, looking for the open man.

[kidcoolangot]

[/B]

Jesus man. Thats exactly what Rose has. Rose just needs to learn how to play pg or move over to sg. One or the other.

Do you not watch the games at all -.-. Bulls are getting shut down offensively when defense is turned up. Rose has a good build. But AGAIN, there team is too defensive and they need a player who can score consistently and create their own shots. Just so i wouldnt have to repeat my self all over again, Deng and Boozer create shots off plays and can defensively shut down easily by good defensive teams.You can see it when the coach tries to make plays for other players but ends up passing it to rose because they cant do shit with the ball. Playoff series is evidence

[The Decision]

Offense jammed? I thought Noah was a great passer. Not to mention there's Boozer.



Why don't you watch the damn game you idiot?



How is scoring 24 points on 50% shooting and coming up with clutch plays that decided the game not doing anything.

In game two, Wade was 0 for 7 in the second half with multiple turnovers I believe. So even though he shot 50%, he was useless for the entire second half.

HOLY SHIT he had two blocks while being up 6 in OT? It didn't decide the game.
Clutch plays that decided the game would be Lebron's defense on Rose's last two shot in the 4th.

Now that's a clutch defensive play that decided the game!

For crying out loud, Wade last point before he scored in OT was in the second quarter! :facepalm

[Pointguard]

so Terry and Rip can create their shots better than Boozer and Deng.:lol

ok.

Boozer always had trouble with size and superior strength. Couple that with speed and he can effectively be a mediocore player. Deng needs seems and cracks to get into. Lebron is a superb defender. Neither one is very creative and without much confidence they aren't going to dent a good defensive team.

On the Rose tip he is the focal point, plan A,B and C of the defense is to get Rose.

[Pointguard]

jason terry gets almost all of his shots on the pick and roll with dirk or spot up jumpers.

lol at the idea that terry creates his own shots. its all almost exclusively off Dirk.

in fact, the entire mavs team other than barea relies on some type of dirk action to get their shots.

thats the difference. Dirk is playing efficient offense and making the right plays. rose is doing the opposite.

and if he is getting doubled and being forced to give up the ball....why is he taking 27 shots? its either awful play or just straight up dumb play. i don't care how you define it. its bad.

If he takes less shots these games aren't close. No other way to put it. Deng has Lebron on him and needs the space Rose creates. Booze isn't fast enough for Miami.

Dallas lives off of the good decision making of the backcourt. Kidd is the decision maker, he facilitates with Terry alot (Rose is responsible for these responsibilities for his team). Dirk is the scorer and spreads the floor so others can get their shot (This is Rose responsibility as well). Barea is the penetrator and most creative player on the team (This is Rose responsibility as well). This is not shared responsibility on Chicago and Miami has decided to go at Rose without worry of Barea, Dirk, Kidd or Terry type players making them pay. Plus Dirk has had more players on his team win games than any other team in the playoffs: add Marion and Chandler to guys that could win games against Miami. Boozer and Deng don't have much of a pulse. Rose isn't getting calls.

Miami's speed is something I said in the regular season that was going to get people in the playoffs. Should they play Dallas Dirk will be in for a surprise.

[KOLBCTEW]

Why don't you watch the damn game you idiot?
Why don't you? For a man who has six assists and seven turnovers it's not all on the Heats defense, his decision making has a lot to do with it cause he constantly gives up on the play once he passes and makes poor decision forcing up many times bad shots instead of getting his teammates more involved.
And let's not act Boozer and Deng weren't playing well, they were as they shot 50%.



In game two, Wade was 0 for 7 in the second half with multiple turnovers I believe. No he wasn't 0 for 7...


So even though he shot 50%, he was useless for the entire second half.?So what if he didn't play as well as he did in the first half? He still played well enough where his contributions made enough of a difference in the game to lead to a win.


HOLY SHIT he had two blocks while being up 6 in OT? It didn't decide the game.
Clutch plays that decided the game would be Lebron's defense on Rose's last two shot in the 4th. He also blocked Rose's shot in overtime when they were still tied 85 - 85 and He also extended the lead and helped keep the lead... that's clutch as well.


Now that's a clutch defensive play that decided the game!
Seems like your picking and choosing what to point out. While he did make clutch defensive plays to decide the game he also turned over the ball just before giving the Bulls a great chance to win.


For crying out loud, Wade last point before he scored in OT was in the second quarter! :facepalm
He may have showed up late but he still showed up and helped them win.
Your saying he did absolutely nothing which isn't true at all.

[DuMa]

Rose is playing his game. it just so happens that that kind of a game from Rose, a scoring PG role usually never gets it done in the playoffs. See Iverson, Marbury, Francis, Kevin Johnson, etc. etc. its never worked out for those guys

[King Lebron LBJ]

Rose had the chance in the 4th to show why he was MVP and failed to do so and it all started with that missed FT when down 1.

one on one with Lebron with a chance to be the hero and get the game winner sending it back to Chicago tied at 2-2 and couldn't deliver. It's a learning experience for him but he showed he is not there yet. He has shot terrible all post season.

[Heat007]

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/44448888/Joel-CollectorOfSouls.jpg

[chains5000]

http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/44448888/Joel-CollectorOfSouls.jpg
The new Perkins?
In terms of being overrated due to the system.

[DMAVS41]

If he takes less shots these games aren't close. No other way to put it. Deng has Lebron on him and needs the space Rose creates. Booze isn't fast enough for Miami.

Dallas lives off of the good decision making of the backcourt. Kidd is the decision maker, he facilitates with Terry alot (Rose is responsible for these responsibilities for his team). Dirk is the scorer and spreads the floor so others can get their shot (This is Rose responsibility as well). Barea is the penetrator and most creative player on the team (This is Rose responsibility as well). This is not shared responsibility on Chicago and Miami has decided to go at Rose without worry of Barea, Dirk, Kidd or Terry type players making them pay. Plus Dirk has had more players on his team win games than any other team in the playoffs: add Marion and Chandler to guys that could win games against Miami. Boozer and Deng don't have much of a pulse. Rose isn't getting calls.

Miami's speed is something I said in the regular season that was going to get people in the playoffs. Should they play Dallas Dirk will be in for a surprise.

And if Dirk plays like crap, he'll get hammered for it. Considering Dirk plays with much less help than Rose, that will factor in as well.

I don't even really care if Rose was playing worse. Its his style of play and decisions that bother me. Its Kobe 2.0. Shoot sub 40% and continue to jack up shot after shot.

Do you realize how absurd it is that a point guard can't make quality passes out of double teams? Thats a joke.

27 shots? You can't have it both ways. If he's truly being doubled and shaded so much. PASS THE ****ING BALL. 27 shots on horrid efficiency and a ton of turnovers while being doubled and tripled is a joke.

You live and die with your teams ability to make the right play.

It is absolutely not necessary for Rose to take so many shots. Thats the problem with people here. The bulls offense really can't get worse. How about Rose actually pass the damn ball and get some ****ing movement going.

Lebron got hammered for playing like Rose does. The difference is that Lebron does it on high efficiency and is a much better passer. Its quite funny actually.

[Trigg]

The new Perkins?
In terms of being overrated due to the system.

Not really. He's part of why that system works.

He's a honest, hardworking solid defender. I don't think that's overrating him. Do you?

[Human Error]

20/21 shots today is not too much when you are the best player on your team.
Secondly majority of those shots are layup attempts at the rim that are either blocked/missed. Some being fouls that are never called!

I'm all for Rose taking less shots, but Bulls are a horrible jump shooting team.
and it has proved to be true this entire series.
Get the hell out of here if you're to keep talking out of your a.. like this.

27 shots. 1 of 9 from 3 point land. Outside of a couple of highlight dunks, majority of his shots were mid range jumpers including airball at the end of regulation.

As for the Bulls being a horrible jump shooting team, man did you even watch the game? Luol Deng and Boozer were raining their jump shots all night long. Rose should've fed them more. As for others, Gilbson can knock down jumpers, CJ Watson is a good shooter also, and they can turn to Korver as well.

[DMAVS41]

Get the hell out of here if you're to keep talking out of your a.. like this.

27 shots. 1 of 9 from 3 point land. Outside of a couple of highlight dunks, majority of his shots were mid range jumpers including airball at the end of regulation.

As for the Bulls being a horrible jump shooting team, man did you even watch the game? Luol Deng and Boozer were raining their jump shots all night long. Rose should've fed them more. As for others, Gilbson can knock down jumpers, CJ Watson is a good shooter also, and they can turn to Korver as well.

This game is why I hate on Rose. He was getting a ton of help. Great defense and rebounding as usual...and his 2nd and 3rd options were rolling.

What did Rose do? He forced the issues and took 27 shots and froze them out. Truly a terrible game on so many levels by Rose.

I like him, but games like that are just inexcusable. Pathetic. Deng and Boozer combine for 40 on 50% shooting and 19 boards.

What more do you people want? On limited touches as well. Rose was almost solely responsible for that loss....and I don't say that often. He was atrocious on so many levels.

[King Lebron LBJ]

This game is why I hate on Rose. He was getting a ton of help. Great defense and rebounding as usual...and his 2nd and 3rd options were rolling.

What did Rose do? He forced the issues and took 27 shots and froze them out. Truly a terrible game on so many levels by Rose.

I like him, but games like that are just inexcusable. Pathetic. Deng and Boozer combine for 40 on 50% shooting and 19 boards.

What more do you people want? On limited touches as well. Rose was almost solely responsible for that loss....and I don't say that often. He was atrocious on so many levels.

Scary thing is apart from the two dunks and two fastbreak lay-ups he didn't get much to go at all.

[Rasheed1]

To be fair, Rose just needs to develop a mentality as strickly a playmaker.. He should be able to go into different modes.. Scoring, or playmaking or defending.. Whatever facilitates winning in a specific situation. Cant waste soo many possessions with poor shots and turnovers when teams put the screws on you..

Miami is good enough where they 2 players who know how to do both at any given time.. thats why they seamlessly trade off taking over game and taking each other's back in games..

[iguana]

Rose = Westbrook

nothing more than that

:roll:

[jrong]

This game is why I hate on Rose. He was getting a ton of help. Great defense and rebounding as usual...and his 2nd and 3rd options were rolling.

What did Rose do? He forced the issues and took 27 shots and froze them out. Truly a terrible game on so many levels by Rose.

I like him, but games like that are just inexcusable. Pathetic. Deng and Boozer combine for 40 on 50% shooting and 19 boards.

What more do you people want? On limited touches as well. Rose was almost solely responsible for that loss....and I don't say that often. He was atrocious on so many levels.

Yet, the media party-line continues that he needs help, that he's all by himself. Boozer's averaged 23 pts the last two games. Can he create his own shot off the dribble? Not really, but that's why it's Rose's job as PG to get him the ball where he can score.

And tonight like you said, Deng and Boozer each go for 3 less pts than Rose, but they do it on 50% shooting as opposed to 8/27. Now hopefully people who dismiss it can see why efficiency matters.

Rose made 8 FGs, 6 FTs, and 6 asts. So that's 17 times when he made an offensive play that something positive happened-- i.e. it led to points.

On the other hand, he missed 19 FGs, 1 FT, and had 7 TOs. That's 26 times when he tried to make a play that he failed to produce a positive result.

So, all in all, he tried to make 43 plays, and was successful 17 times. That's a success rate of 39.5%, or, another way to say it, is that when the Bulls put the ball in his hands, something good happened just under 40% of the time....

[DMAVS41]

Yet, the media party-line continues that he needs help, that he's all by himself. Boozer's averaged 23 pts the last two games. Can he create his own shot off the dribble? Not really, but that's why it's Rose's job as PG to get him the ball where he can score.

And tonight like you said, Deng and Boozer each go for 3 less pts than Rose, but they do it on 50% shooting as opposed to 8/27. Now hopefully people who dismiss it can see why efficiency matters.

Rose made 8 FGs, 6 FTs, and 6 asts. So that's 17 times when he made an offensive play that something positive happened-- i.e. it led to points.

On the other hand, he missed 19 FGs, 1 FT, and had 7 TOs. That's 26 times when he tried to make a play that he failed to produce a positive result.

So, all in all, he tried to make 43 plays, and was successful 17 times. That's a success rate of 39.5%, or, another way to say it, is that when the Bulls put the ball in his hands, something good happened just under 40% of the time....

Yep. He has plenty of help. He's been terrible in this series yet his team has had a chance to win every single game so far. Thats the sign of a great supporting cast.

This series is almost solely on Rose. If your point guard can't pass out of doubles then guess what.....he's not a point guard.

More help? LOL

[Calabis]

WTF man. Its like Rose been the best clutch player throughout the season and Lebron been the choker and not its the other way around.


well.. it was a nice season. :cheers:

Yup, why he continues to settle for long jumpers is beyond me, not to mention those turnovers.....oh well maybe we can get Crawford back and take some of the scoring burden off him

[Pointguard]

And if Dirk plays like crap, he'll get hammered for it. Considering Dirk plays with much less help than Rose,

You live and die with your teams ability to make the right play.

1)Dirk has way more help than Rose has. I just named six other guys that have won games for them in the playoffs. Barea, Terry, Kidd, Chandler, Marion and Sto has hit key shots. Deng and Booze have had games like Stojaka but didn't take the games over like Dallas guys have.

2)Rose's responsibility is shared by three players on the Mavs. As I said above "Dallas lives off of the good decision making of the backcourt. Kidd is the decision maker, he facilitates with Terry alot (Rose is responsible for these responsibilities for his team). Dirk is the scorer and spreads the floor so others can get their shot (This is Rose responsibility as well). Barea is the penetrator and most creative player on the team (This is Rose responsibility as well)." Rose can't turn to others for these responsibilities. And Miami has gone right at him and effectively limited him.

3)Dirk has steady clutch shooters. Terry - a guy who took over shooting responsibilities when Dirk decided not to finish off the game in their championship run, Kidd-third all time in makes, Stojaka one of the best shooters ever, even Marion is doing better than Korver. This is a tremendous advantage Dirk had over every superstar all year long.

4)Dirk has a team built around him and has been built around him with plays ran over ten years for him. Dirk knows where players are in his sleep. In Chicago the coach doesn't know where the players are going to be. They can't space the floor because they rarely shoot good enough. Agaisnt Miami's speed, Rose is constantly left on an island where other players can't help him because they can't shoot against Miami's pressure.

5)Dirk has a completely supportive offensive system. Rose creates for himself and very much creates the system. BIIIIG Difference.

6)Dirk has a stellar penetrator and game changer in Barea.


7)Rose is an easier target and can be isolated because of above.

Now if the Mavs players are playing like the Bulls on offense and Miami can focus solely on Dirk then the playing floor is equal. Rose still has way more responsibilites to tend to but hey...

But please explain to me how Rose has way more help and who else is making the right play.

[Pointguard]

There are times during every game where Rose goes totally into selfless point guard mode. But hate blinds a good mind.

[The Decision]

Get the hell out of here if you're to keep talking out of your a.. like this.

27 shots. 1 of 9 from 3 point land. Outside of a couple of highlight dunks, majority of his shots were mid range jumpers including airball at the end of regulation.

As for the Bulls being a horrible jump shooting team, man did you even watch the game? Luol Deng and Boozer were raining their jump shots all night long. Rose should've fed them more. As for others, Gilbson can knock down jumpers, CJ Watson is a good shooter also, and they can turn to Korver as well.


This game is why I hate on Rose. He was getting a ton of help. Great defense and rebounding as usual...and his 2nd and 3rd options were rolling.

What did Rose do? He forced the issues and took 27 shots and froze them out. Truly a terrible game on so many levels by Rose.

I like him, but games like that are just inexcusable. Pathetic. Deng and Boozer combine for 40 on 50% shooting and 19 boards.

What more do you people want? On limited touches as well. Rose was almost solely responsible for that loss....and I don't say that often. He was atrocious on so many levels.

A bunch of pieces of shit!

Three of those shots were end of quarter full court heaves.
and about three or four were bail out shots at the end of the clock!

That means he only truely attempted 20/21 shots within the offense!

[DMAVS41]

1)Dirk has way more help than Rose has. I just named six other guys that have won games for them in the playoffs. Barea, Terry, Kidd, Chandler, Marion and Sto has hit key shots. Deng and Booze have had games like Stojaka but didn't take the games over like Dallas guys have.

2)Rose's responsibility is shared by three players on the Mavs. As I said above "Dallas lives off of the good decision making of the backcourt. Kidd is the decision maker, he facilitates with Terry alot (Rose is responsible for these responsibilities for his team). Dirk is the scorer and spreads the floor so others can get their shot (This is Rose responsibility as well). Barea is the penetrator and most creative player on the team (This is Rose responsibility as well)." Rose can't turn to others for these responsibilities. And Miami has gone right at him and effectively limited him.

3)Dirk has steady clutch shooters. Terry - a guy who took over shooting responsibilities when Dirk decided not to finish off the game in their championship run, Kidd-third all time in makes, Stojaka one of the best shooters ever, even Marion is doing better than Korver. This is a tremendous advantage Dirk had over every superstar all year long.

4)Dirk has a team built around him and has been built around him with plays ran over ten years for him. Dirk knows where players are in his sleep. In Chicago the coach doesn't know where the players are going to be. They can't space the floor because they rarely shoot good enough. Agaisnt Miami's speed, Rose is constantly left on an island where other players can't help him because they can't shoot against Miami's pressure.

5)Dirk has a completely supportive offensive system. Rose creates for himself and very much creates the system. BIIIIG Difference.

6)Dirk has a stellar penetrator and game changer in Barea.


7)Rose is an easier target and can be isolated because of above.

Now if the Mavs players are playing like the Bulls on offense and Miami can focus solely on Dirk then the playing floor is equal. Rose still has way more responsibilites to tend to but hey...

But please explain to me how Rose has way more help and who else is making the right play.

Easy.

Rose has played horribly in this series. Flat out awful. Yet his team has had a chance to win every single game so far despite Rose.

Thats the sign of a great supporting cast. And remember. The Bulls defense and rebounding is not impacted at all by Rose. In fact, the Bulls become a better defensive team with Rose not playing. LOL

Dirk has had to play two legendary games to have the lead in his series. Without those? The Mavs are down 3-1 right now. If Dirk was playing even remotely like Rose right now the Mavs would have probably been swept.....and the Heat are a lot better than the Thunder.

Its hilarious.

Dirk has needed to not only play great, but come through in crunch time. If Rose had come through in crunch time like Dirk? The bulls might have swept the Heat.
:facepalm

[tpols]

Rose has played horribly in this series. Flat out awful. Yet his team has had a chance to win every single game so far despite Rose.

Wrong.. rose has played horrible offensively, and his team has played great defensively. Great defensive teams will always keep a team in games because they give a higher margin for error on offense.

[The Decision]

Easy.

Rose has played horribly in this series. Flat out awful. Yet his team has had a chance to win every single game so far despite Rose.

Thats the sign of a great supporting cast. And remember. The Bulls defense and rebounding is not impacted at all by Rose. In fact, the Bulls become a better defensive team with Rose not playing. LOL :facepalm

Why is anyone listening to this ******* ass dude?
Rose guarded Wade for the majority of the series and guess what? He's shooting 39%. now STFU!

Wade has played played horribly in this series. Flat out awful. Yet his team has won 3 out of the 4 games despite Wade putting on the opposing uniform!

Thats the sign of a GREATER supporting cast than Rose has.

GTFO!

[DMAVS41]

Wrong.. rose has played horrible offensively, and his team has played great defensively. Great defensive teams will always keep a team in games because they give a higher margin for error on offense.

And rose makes no impact on defense for them. The Bulls were a whopping 7.7 points per 100 possessions better on defense with Rose not on the floor this year.

Rebounding remained constant.

So the things Rose is supposed to do are killing the Bulls. Play point guard and make plays late. Rose could not be doing worse right now in those areas.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Get tired of your star player choking? You are still lucky not to be a Mavs fan...

[DMAVS41]

Why is anyone listening to this ******* ass dude?
Rose guarded Wade for the majority of the series and guess what? He's shooting 39%. now STFU!

Wade has played played horribly in this series. Flat out awful. Yet his team has won 3 out of the 4 games despite Wade putting on the opposing uniform!

Thats the sign of a GREATER supporting cast than Rose has.

GTFO!

We are comparing Rose to Dirk. Wade has been awful as well. Is anyone disputing that?

[The Decision]

We are comparing Rose to Dirk. Wade has been awful as well. Is anyone disputing that?


And rose makes no impact on defense for them.

FALSE

not only FALSE but you make this statement just as your other statements to mislead people who are not known to your antics, so you can further your agenda.

now gtfout of ISH you fcuking liar!

[tpols]

And rose makes no impact on defense for them. The Bulls were a whopping 7.1 points per 100 possessions better on defense with Rose not on the floor this year.

Do you really think C.J. Watson, rose's replacemnet, makes a bigger difference defensively? He doesn't.

The reason the bulls get better when rose hits the bench is for a variety of reasons:

1) Gibson often comes in and replaces boozer which is a big defensive upgrade
2) Brewer replaces bogans~another defensive upgrade
3) Rose goes to the bench when the opposition's star players go to the bench which results in the bull's defense going up against the opposing team's bench, which is always going to be a weaker offensive unit than their starting five.

That's just a misleading statistic that you have applied no context or explanation for.. meaning it's useless.

And thats how great defensive teams work.. they keep you in the game offensively.

The mavs don't have near the defense the bulls have and thats because of the difference in the two teams' interior defenses. Tyson Chandler can only do so much and he is their only paint protector. It's a knock on dirk that he isn't able to guard the paint or the rim like a superstar power forward/7 footer should be able to. Because the mavs' perimeter defense certainly isn't to blame. It's much better than their interior defense.

[The Decision]

Do you really think C.J. Watson, rose's replacemnet, makes a bigger difference defensively? He doesn't.

The reason the bulls get better when rose hits the bench is for a variety of reasons:

1) Gibson often comes in and replaces boozer which is a big defensive upgrade
2) Brewer replaces bogans~another defensive upgrade
3) Rose goes to the bench when the opposition's star players go to the bench which results in the bull's defense going up against the opposing team's bench, which is always going to be a weaker offensive unit than their starting five.

That's just a misleading statistic that you have applied no context or explanation for.. meaning it's useless.

And thats how great defensive teams work.. they keep you in the game offensively.

The mavs don't have near the defense the bulls have and thats because of the difference in the two teams' interior defenses. Tyson Chandler can only do so much and he is their only paint protector. It's a knock on dirk that he isn't able to guard the paint or the rim like a superstar power forward/7 footer should be able to. Because the mavs' perimeter defense certainly isn't to blame. It's much better than their interior defense.

Not to mention the impact Rose has had on this series defensively.
Guarding Wade almost the entire series and shutting him down. Guarding him the entire 4th quarters and making him useless!

[DMAVS41]

Do you really think C.J. Watson, rose's replacemnet, makes a bigger difference defensively? He doesn't.

The reason the bulls get better when rose hits the bench is for a variety of reasons:

1) Gibson often comes in and replaces boozer which is a big defensive upgrade
2) Brewer replaces bogans~another defensive upgrade
3) Rose goes to the bench when the opposition's star players go to the bench which results in the bull's defense going up against the opposing team's bench, which is always going to be a weaker offensive unit than their starting five.

That's just a misleading statistic that you have applied no context or explanation for.. meaning it's useless.

And thats how great defensive teams work.. they keep you in the game offensively.

The mavs don't have near the defense the bulls have and thats because of the difference in the two teams' interior defenses. Tyson Chandler can only do so much and he is their only paint protector. It's a knock on dirk that he isn't able to guard the paint or the rim like a superstar power forward/7 footer should be able to. Because the mavs' perimeter defense certainly isn't to blame. It's much better than their interior defense.

Sorry, Rose does not impact the defense at all. Much like Dirk doesn't impact it much at all.

No matter how you slice it, the Bulls can win a lot of games with Rose sucking. The Mavs simply can't do that.

My god. Just look at the difference. Dirk is ****ing lighting the Thunder up and we have struggled to win our 3 games. If Dirk was playing just average....the Thunder would be up 3-1.

Thats the difference.

I don't care what you say about Rose, its just a fact that the Bulls defense remains as good or better with him in or out of the game. His main impact is on offense. And he's killing his team. Yet the Bulls supporting cast is so good that they have been right there late in every game.

And what has Rose done late? Nothing. Absolutely nothing. Unless you count going 2 for 14 and turning the ball over a lot something.

And if Dirk is so bad defensively, why does the Mavs defense get worse with him off the court? If he's so bad...wouldn't him leaving the floor and the other teams stars leaving the game improve the Mavs defense?

Logic. LOL

[tpols]

Sorry, Rose does not impact the defense at all. Much like Dirk doesn't impact it much at all.

No matter how you slice it, the Bulls can win a lot of games with Rose sucking. The Mavs simply can't do that.

And that's solely because the bulls have a better defense.. which as has been pointed out to you a million times, is because of their coach. It's no coincidence the team made such drastic improvements after bringing the guy in.

The mavs have never been a good defensive team and that's mainly because their lead big man has never been able to play even average help defense. Dirk would be a liability to a great defensive team because his lateral movement on rotations and shot blocking ability in the paint is totally non existant. The mavs adopted the offensive juggernaut style of play because of how Dirk plays. You just have to live with the results


And if Dirk is so bad defensively, why does the Mavs defense get worse with him off the court? If he's so bad...wouldn't him leaving the floor and the other teams stars leaving the game improve the Mavs defense?

Sorry, Rose does not impact the defense at all. Much like Dirk doesn't impact it much at all.
You said that^ at the beginning and now you are going back off that statement.:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

And that's solely because the bulls have a better defense.. which as has been pointed out to you a million times, is because of their coach. It's no coincidence the team made such drastic improvements after bringing the guy in.

The mavs have never been a good defensive team and that's mainly because their lead big man has never been able to play even average help defense. Dirk would be a liability to a great defensive team because his lateral movement on rotations and shot blocking ability in the paint is totally non existant. The mavs adopted the offensive juggernaut style of play because of how Dirk plays. You just have to live with the results

Sorry, Rose does not impact the defense at all. Much like Dirk doesn't impact it much at all.
You said that^ at the beginning and now you are going back off that statement.:oldlol:


You are making my points for me.

The Bulls defense is not reliant on Rose. In fact, it has nothing to do with him. They get better when he's not on the floor. Just a fact.

You aren't giving the Mavs enough credit defensively for starters. And blaming Dirk for all of the defensive problems is a ****ing joke. Dirk guarded LA and Gasol better than any other Mavs player in the first 2 series.

Your such a moron tpols. Could you get owned any more.

And a coach is part of the supporting cast. You've already said you think Thibs is a much better coach than Rick.

[Rnbizzle]

Dirk is playing out of his mind period. Mavs fans acting as if Rose is the reason they aren't going to finals now are delusional though. Rose may take a whole lot of difficult shots but most of the time that's the best shot they are going to get that offensive sequence.

Basically Rose is 75% of the reason they have made it this far anyways. Yes they are great defensively even without Rose but offensively they struggle mightily without him.

[DMAVS41]

Dirk is playing out of his mind period. Mavs fans acting as if Rose is the reason they aren't going to finals now are delusional though. Rose may take a whole lot of difficult shots but most of the time that's the best shot they are going to get that offensive sequence.

Basically Rose is 75% of the reason they have made it this far anyways. Yes they are great defensively even without Rose but offensively they struggle mightily without him.

That is true with any sole superstar player team though. Take Dirk off the Mavs and our offense is horrible.

The Mavs offense drops 10.1 points per 100 possessions with Dirk off the floor this year.

The Bulls offense drops 9.6 points per 100 possessions with Rose off the floor this year.

Sorry.

[tpols]

You aren't giving the Mavs enough credit defensively for starters. And blaming Dirk for all of the defensive problems is a ****ing joke. Dirk guarded LA and Gasol better than any other Mavs player in the first 2 series.

lol I guess carl landry locked gasol down too.:roll:

And you didn't even respond to what I said about Dirk. I didn't make a single comment about his man defense. I solely mentioned his help defense. It is non existant. He's very slow with rotations and a terrible shot blocker. He has zero impact on protecting the paint. Thats what makes the bulls so good though. They have near perfect defensive rotations for players that are trying to attack the basket. The mavs, outside of chandler for a few possesions at a time, don't. And dirk is a big part of that because he plays big minutes at the position where those rotations are most important.

Avoiding the issue as usual. You can never respond to what somebody SAYS. You'll always go off on another tangent in an attempt to create a new point to make up for the one you couldn't defend previously. You can never stick to one point.

[GOBB]

All I know is Allen Iverson wouldnt have been shut down by Lebron James. :oldlol:

Rose jumper at the end reminded me of Kobe Bryant airball vs Utah in the playoffs. One day you'll get that to fall young man, one day.

[DMAVS41]

lol I guess carl landry locked gasol down too.:roll:

And you didn't even respond to what I said about Dirk. I didn't make a single comment about his man defense. I solely mentioned his help defense. It is non existant. He's very slow with rotations and a terrible shot blocker. He has zero impact on protecting the paint. Thats what makes the bulls so good though. They have near perfect defensive rotations for players that are trying to attack the basket. The mavs, outside of chandler for a few possesions at a time, don't. And dirk is a big part of that because he plays big minutes at the position where those rotations are most important.

Avoiding the issue as usual. You can never respond to what somebody SAYS. You'll always go off on another tangent in an attempt to create a new point to make up for the one you couldn't defend previously. You can never stick to one point.

You would make a valid point if Rose did any of those things. But he doesn't. He doesn't impact the defense at all. In fact, there is evidence that Rose hurts the defense while Dirk helps the Mavs defense.

And actually Dirk is still better than you give him credit for.

But thats not even the issue. You just said it yourself. Rose does not make the Bulls defense good. So why would we give him credit for that?

Boozer plays PF for the Bulls. Dirk makes the same impact defensively as Boozer does. In fact, I'd say Dirk is a better overall defender.

LOL....so whats next?

How many ****ing excuses can Rose get?

He's playing like shit yet his team has had a chance to beat what is now considered the best team in the league every single game.

Holy shit. What more evidence to you need.

Meanwhile Dirk has had to play damn near perfect in 2 games just to win and has had to be a beast in crunch time. And thats the difference so far. Dirk has played better overall and has come through when its mattered most. Thats the only difference......Rose is getting plenty of ****ing help and you know it.

[Funnyfuka]

rose is good, but he cant carry the whole team every single game in the po or season. Boozer is a fake 2nd option. Rose needs better teamamates but that was a great run so far.

[tpols]

You would make a valid point if Rose did any of those things. But he doesn't. He doesn't impact the defense at all. In fact, there is evidence that Rose hurts the defense while Dirk helps the Mavs defense.

And actually Dirk is still better than you give him credit for.

But thats not even the issue. You just said it yourself. Rose does not make the Bulls defense good. So why would we give him credit for that?

Boozer plays PF for the Bulls. Dirk makes the same impact defensively as Boozer does. In fact, I'd say Dirk is a better overall defender.

LOL....so whats next?

How many ****ing excuses can Rose get?

He's playing like shit yet his team has had a chance to beat what is now considered the best team in the league every single game.

Holy shit. What more evidence to you need.

Meanwhile Dirk has had to play damn near perfect in 2 games just to win and has had to be a beast in crunch time. And thats the difference so far. Dirk has played better overall and has come through when its mattered most. Thats the only difference......Rose is getting plenty of ****ing help and you know it.
And you avoid my point AGAIN. Just as I said you would. I didn't say one word about rose in my post, yet 99% of your post is going off on another tangent unrelated to what I was talking about.

[DMAVS41]

And you avoid my point AGAIN. Just as I said you would. I didn't say one word about rose in my post, yet 99% of your post is going off on another tangent unrelated to what I was talking about.

You are getting torched on here as usual. Now you are trying to hate on Dirk's defense even though the Mavs defense is better with him on the floor and their overall defense is fine.

Tpols....Does it ever get old getting raped on here?

[GOBB]

rose is good, but he cant carry the whole team every single game in the po or season. Boozer is a fake 2nd option. Rose needs better teamamates but that was a great run so far.

His teammates were fine during the regular season. :confusedshrug:

And those teammates faced the Heat head to head. How did that turn out.

[tpols]

You are getting torched on here as usual. Now you are trying to hate on Dirk's defense even though the Mavs defense is better with him on the floor and their overall defense is fine.

Tpols....Does it ever get old getting raped on here?
And AGAIN you provide no explanations or rebuttals to my point. Just more ad hominem and misuse of stats that have no contextual backing.

And it's funny because whenever you start saying lol owned, I know you're losing. :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

And AGAIN you provide no explanations or rebuttals to my point. Just more ad hominem and misuse of stats that have no contextual backing.

And it's funny because whenever you start saying lol owned, I know you're losing. :oldlol:

I answered your point time and time again. You seem to think that Dirk is holding back the Mavs defense. Why is Boozer not holding back the Bulls defense then?

Could it be that the Bulls have better defensive players and a better coach?

Who do you think is a better defender. Dirk or Boozer? And by how much?

[GOBB]

And AGAIN you provide no explanations or rebuttals to my point. Just more ad hominem and misuse of stats that have no contextual backing.

And it's funny because whenever you start saying lol owned, I know you're losing. :oldlol:

Usually happens when posters are fanboys of a player.

[tpols]

I answered your point time and time again. You seem to think that Dirk is holding back the Mavs defense. Why is Boozer not holding back the Bulls defense then?

Could it be that the Bulls have better defensive players and a better coach?

Who do you think is a better defender. Dirk or Boozer? And by how much?
As far as help defense goes, they both have very limited shot blocking ability, but boozer is much quicker than dirk. He is better at sliding into position. His lateral movement is better and he's better on rotations. But I'm not saying boozer is some great defender. Far from it. He's just better at playing team positional defense than dirk is.

[DMAVS41]

As far as help defense goes, they both have very limited shot blocking ability, but boozer is much quicker than dirk. He is better at sliding into position. His lateral movement is better and he's better on rotations. But I'm not saying boozer is some great defender. Far from it. He's just better at playing team positional defense than dirk is.

So you think dirk kills the mavs on defense but boozer does not hurt the bulls?

[kaiiu]

I knew Bigsmoke was a Heat fan for real..all of you are coming out that shell now. You, IndianGuy. Dont see BruceBlitz videos but I bet its the same shit like this thread. Lebron is amazing/ Rose is trash :rolleyes:

[kidcoolangot]

Rose has a great supporting cast. NO ONE IS ARGUING THAT HE HAS A SHT SUPPORTING CAST. Theyre supporting cast is verrry good defensively. Boozer and Deng are good role players and can get theres offensively. BUT, they can not do anything offensively down the stretch. They end up passing the ball to rose. You can see it if you watch the games. Yes Rose made some pretty dumb plays down the stretch its because theyre team mates cant create offense for themselves. When a play is drawn out for them they get shut down and ends up kicking it to the open man in the three and they miss. Thats why you see rose driving to draw the foul but miami has good defense and ends up contesting the shot. Thats why all ive been trying to say this time is that he needs a person who can shoot consistently or create offense for themselves.

[DMAVS41]

So lets recap for tpols.

He claims the Mavs have a better supporting cast. Yet he says that the Bulls are much better defensively and have a better coach.

Its already proven that Rose does not impact the defense.

Yet somehow....i guess by magic or something. Rose has played a horrible series so far and his team has had a very good chance to win all 4 games in crunch time.

Yet its taken Dirk playing out of his mind to get a 3-1 series lead. And the Thunder aren't nearly as good as the Heat.

Lets just ignore that Dirk has been better overall. Lets just compare them in the 4th qtrs. I think Dirk is averaging 12 points in the 4th qtrs.....Rose is averaging like 4 points in the 4th.

So if we just had Dirk play as crappy as Rose late, the Mavs might be done. We probably would have gotten swept.

LOL

[Askmeificare]

but but but the bull's never lost 2... oh wait 3.... oh wait 4 in arrow :lol

[jrong]

Why is anyone listening to this ******* ass dude?
Rose guarded Wade for the majority of the series and guess what? He's shooting 39%. now STFU!

Wade has played played horribly in this series. Flat out awful. Yet his team has won 3 out of the 4 games despite Wade putting on the opposing uniform!

Thats the sign of a GREATER supporting cast than Rose has.

GTFO!

What are you talking about? Rose has guarded Wade for a brief section in each game, and in every game but Game 1, Wade ate him up. It's the other defenders Wade has been struggling against. Brewer and Bogans slow him down just enough, so by the time he gets penetration, Noah, Asik, etc. have rotated over to help. Plus Wade is just missing shots.

Wade, on the other hand, has had just as much to do with Rose's performance as LeBron, even though it's not being talked about. He can't stay with Rose one-on-one as well as LeBron, but his ball-denial has been fantastic and he's bothering his shot every time he guards him.

[Bigsmoke]

His teammates were fine during the regular season. :confusedshrug:

And those teammates faced the Heat head to head. How did that turn out.

dont forget that Boozer has been the Bulls best player in the last 2 games.

Rose needs more help my ass... he NEEDS to help.

[DMAVS41]

dont forget that Boozer has been the Bulls best player in the last 2 games.

Rose needs more help my ass... he NEEDS to help.
:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[bdreason]

What happens when you take a team that relies on one guy to score from the perimeter, and you pit them against the best perimeter defensive team in the league? :confusedshrug:

[BlackJoker23]

http://uploadpic.org/storage/2011/ju6YfB4slElP7TJV0a4SMLAdg.jpg

[crisscutfries]

Rondo would've won last nights game

[DMAVS41]

What happens when you take a team that relies on one guy to score from the perimeter that can't score efficiently or run an offense, and you pit them against the best perimeter defensive team in the league? :confusedshrug:

Fixed

[Bigsmoke]

I knew Bigsmoke was a Heat fan for real..all of you are coming out that shell now. You, IndianGuy. Dont see BruceBlitz videos but I bet its the same shit like this thread. Lebron is amazing/ Rose is trash :rolleyes:

I grew up watching LeBron James throughout my highschool years and i have 2 of his jerseys hanging up in the closet so now i can like him? :confusedshrug:

Come on now, some of my best moments of my life is me meeting scottie pippen and Bill Wennington in person and i still have the Bulls 95-96 championship tape in my room.

Not to mention that i live 10 minutes away from the United Center.

[Pointguard]

You haven't remotely addressed anything I wrote. But hey, that's you. So I will repost it at the end of this post. Feel free to answer anything I put to you in bold.


Easy.

Rose has played horribly in this series. Flat out awful. Yet his team has had a chance to win every single game so far despite Rose.

Rose has been productive every game. 80% of the time they score its because of the imbalance Rose creates. The team has focused their resources totally on Rose. If Miami spends those resources on Dirk he won't look anything like he looks now.


Thats the sign of a great supporting cast. And remember. The Bulls defense and rebounding is not impacted at all by Rose. In fact, the Bulls become a better defensive team with Rose not playing. LOL

Rose guarded Wade (a Player that demolished the Mav's in one of the greatest finals performances everalmost by himself before he Wade was in his prime, now he is in his prime) in the 4 quarter of game two and three. How many times did Wade score on Rose. Zero. Wade is one of the games greatest offensive forces bar none. Do you even know what defense means???


Dirk has had to play two legendary games to have the lead in his series. Without those? The Mavs are down 3-1 right now. If Dirk was playing even remotely like Rose right now the Mavs would have probably been swept.....and the Heat are a lot better than the Thunder.
If Rose has Dirk's help offensively they sweep everybody without question.



Dirk has needed to not only play great, but come through in crunch time. If Rose had come through in crunch time like Dirk? The bulls might have swept the Heat.
:facepalm

The Heat have dedicated their resoursces into stopping Rose. Not difficult to understand. Rose can't play hero. You really have a horrid sense of what good defense is and what it can do. If the Mav's players are missing to the point that the opposing team can dedicate their resources to Dirk like the did Rose we will see a worse production from Dirk. We seen Miami make Terry the Mav's leader and Miami had far inferior defensive players in '06. At least Rose maintained leadership and is trying to keep pressure on Miami. And Rose is far from his prime while Dirk was in it.

Please feel free to address anything I put in bold, above and below.

1)Dirk has way more help than Rose has. I just named six other guys that have won games for them in the playoffs. Barea, Terry, Kidd, Chandler, Marion and Sto has hit key shots. Deng and Booze have had games like Stojaka but didn't take the games over like Dallas guys have.

2)Rose's responsibility is shared by three players on the Mavs. As I said above "Dallas lives off of the good decision making of the backcourt. Kidd is the decision maker, he facilitates with Terry alot (Rose is responsible for these responsibilities for his team). Dirk is the scorer and spreads the floor so others can get their shot (This is Rose responsibility as well). Barea is the penetrator and most creative player on the team (This is Rose responsibility as well)." Rose can't turn to others for these responsibilities. And Miami has gone right at him and effectively limited him.

3)Dirk has steady clutch shooters. Terry - a guy who took over shooting responsibilities when Dirk decided not to finish off the game in their championship run, Kidd-third all time in makes, Stojaka one of the best shooters ever, even Marion is doing better than Korver. This is a tremendous advantage Dirk had over every superstar all year long.

4)Dirk has a team built around him and has been built around him with plays ran over ten years for him. Dirk knows where players are in his sleep. In Chicago the coach doesn't know where the players are going to be. They can't space the floor because they rarely shoot good enough. Agaisnt Miami's speed, Rose is constantly left on an island where other players can't help him because they can't shoot against Miami's pressure.

5)Dirk has a completely supportive offensive system. Rose creates for himself and very much creates the system. BIIIIG Difference.

6)Dirk has a stellar penetrator and game changer in Barea.


7)Rose is an easier target and can be isolated because of above.

[kaiiu]

I grew up watching LeBron James throughout my highschool years and i have 2 of his jerseys hanging up in the closet so now i can like him? :confusedshrug:

Come on now, some of my best moments of my life is me meeting scottie pippen and Bill Wennington in person and i still have the Bulls 95-96 championship tape in my room.

Not to mention that i live 10 minutes away from the United Center.
I have no problem with u being a huge Lebron fan. There is alot of "Cavs fans' that jumped ship to :confusedshrug:

But to actually celebrate his success at the demise of your own team is crazy as fvck.

[DMAVS41]

You haven't remotely addressed anything I wrote. But hey, that's you. So I will repost it at the end of this post. Feel free to answer anything I put to you in bold.


Rose has been productive every game. 80% of the time they score its because of the imbalance Rose creates. The team has focused their resources totally on Rose. If Miami spends those resources on Dirk he won't look anything like he looks now.

Rose guarded Wade (a Player that demolished the Mav's in one of the greatest finals performances everalmost by himself before he Wade was in his prime, now he is in his prime) in the 4 quarter of game two and three. How many times did Wade score on Rose. Zero. Wade is one of the games greatest offensive forces bar none. Do you even know what defense means???

If Rose has Dirk's help offensively they sweep everybody without question.



The Heat have dedicated their resoursces into stopping Rose. Not difficult to understand. Rose can't play hero. You really have a horrid sense of what good defense is and what it can do. If the Mav's players are missing to the point that the opposing team can dedicate their resources to Dirk like the did Rose we will see a worse production from Dirk. We seen Miami make Terry the Mav's leader and Miami had far inferior defensive players in '06. At least Rose maintained leadership and is trying to keep pressure on Miami. And Rose is far from his prime while Dirk was in it.

Please feel free to address anything I put in bold, above and below.

1)Dirk has way more help than Rose has. I just named six other guys that have won games for them in the playoffs. Barea, Terry, Kidd, Chandler, Marion and Sto has hit key shots. Deng and Booze have had games like Stojaka but didn't take the games over like Dallas guys have.

2)Rose's responsibility is shared by three players on the Mavs. As I said above "Dallas lives off of the good decision making of the backcourt. Kidd is the decision maker, he facilitates with Terry alot (Rose is responsible for these responsibilities for his team). Dirk is the scorer and spreads the floor so others can get their shot (This is Rose responsibility as well). Barea is the penetrator and most creative player on the team (This is Rose responsibility as well)." Rose can't turn to others for these responsibilities. And Miami has gone right at him and effectively limited him.

3)Dirk has steady clutch shooters. Terry - a guy who took over shooting responsibilities when Dirk decided not to finish off the game in their championship run, Kidd-third all time in makes, Stojaka one of the best shooters ever, even Marion is doing better than Korver. This is a tremendous advantage Dirk had over every superstar all year long.

4)Dirk has a team built around him and has been built around him with plays ran over ten years for him. Dirk knows where players are in his sleep. In Chicago the coach doesn't know where the players are going to be. They can't space the floor because they rarely shoot good enough. Agaisnt Miami's speed, Rose is constantly left on an island where other players can't help him because they can't shoot against Miami's pressure.

5)Dirk has a completely supportive offensive system. Rose creates for himself and very much creates the system. BIIIIG Difference.

6)Dirk has a stellar penetrator and game changer in Barea.


7)Rose is an easier target and can be isolated because of above.

Because everything you say is total BS.

Look. Rose has played like shit. Of course he has a hand in everything. He jacks up 23 plus shots a game and dribbles out the shot clock.

Rose does not impact the team defense. Its just a fact. I did not say he's been a terrible defender. I am simply stating the fact that the Bulls defense it tops in the league with or without Rose on the floor. Just a simple fact.

Rose does not have more help. He has the luxury of playing poorly and still having the chance to win.

Dirk doesn't consistently have that chance.

You can throw out all the numbers and everything and just focus on crunch time play if you want. Lets do that.

Dirk has been amazing late in these games.
Rose has been awful late in these games.

Two more facts.

And thats the difference. Not only is Dirk playing much better overall, but he's taking over late. Meanwhile, Rose is killing his team late with missed shots and turnovers.

So I don't see your points at all. Especially when the Heat are better than the Thunder. Dirk and the Mavs would have been swept if the Dirk played at a Rose level in this series. Swept.

You Rose Homers can't get it through your brains that the only reason the games have been close is because of the defense and rebounding of the Bulls.

And again. Rose does not make an impact in either of those areas. The Bulls get a whopping 7.7 points per 100 possessions better with Rose off the floor on defense and the rebounding remains constant.

Rose has more help, he's just playing like total shit.

[Pointguard]

dont forget that Boozer has been the Bulls best player in the last 2 games.

Rose needs more help my ass... he NEEDS to help.
Miami wants Boozer to be the best player, even tho he hasn't been. If they double Boozer he's a train wreck. Heck he's one without Rose in the game. He's totally unstable and was on self check the first game with hopes that he become the focal point offensively. They can always go at him and make him hesitant. You fallin off Bigsmoke.

[DMAVS41]

Miami wants Boozer to be the best player, even tho he hasn't been. If they double Boozer he's a train wreck. Heck he's one without Rose in the game. He's totally unstable and was on self check the first game with hopes that he become the focal point offensively. They can always go at him and make him hesitant. You fallin off Bigsmoke.

lets try to break this down for you.

rose is now putting up this through 4 games:

23 points 4 boards 6 assists on 36% fg

He's been awful in crunch time. Missing nearly every shot and turning the ball over a lot.

Thats not good enough to win sir. Sorry. The fact that these games have been so close is a testament to how much help Rose actually has. Not many other teams that could see their superstar drop a giant turd like this and still have a great chance to win every game.

Just the truth.

[tpols]

lets try to break this down for you.

rose is now putting up this through 4 games:

23 points 4 boards 6 assists on 36% fg

He's been awful in crunch time. Missing nearly every shot and turning the ball over a lot.

Thats not good enough to win sir. Sorry. The fact that these games have been so close is a testament to how much help Rose actually has. Not many other teams that could see their superstar drop a giant turd like this and still have a great chance to win every game.

Just the truth.
Wow.. this is really funny.

Dirk dropped 22/10 on 36% shooting in the first four games of the 06 Finals, and his team was tied at 2-2.

Rose dropped 23/4/6 on 36% shooting and his team is down 1-3.

:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Wow.. this is really funny.

Dirk dropped 22/10 on 36% shooting in the first four games of the 06 Finals, and his team was tied at 2-2.

Rose dropped 23/4/6 on 36% shooting and his team is down 1-3.

:oldlol:

Relevance?

You have to go back to 06 to debate me now? Holy shit.

And Kobe has put up 25/5/5 on 41% shooting for his career in the finals. He has 5 titles.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Could you get more owned?

[JonnyBigBoss]

Yeah, his performance during this series hasn't exactly been great, but it's a lot of pressure. He'll learn and grow.

[tpols]

Relevance?


You constantly proclaim this bulls team to be stacked and a great supporting cast.. and meanwhile say dirk has never had any help. Yet in Dirk's only playoff appearance he was carried by his teammates moreso than rose has been this year.:roll:

[jb220]

He's a no defense, immature chucker. What do you expect?

[DMAVS41]

You constantly proclaim this bulls team to be stacked and a great supporting cast.. and meanwhile say dirk has never had any help. Yet in Dirk's only playoff appearance he was carried by his teammates moreso than rose has been this year.:roll:

What?

Is Rose in the finals? No. And never did I compare Dirk in 06 to Rose now.

I have merely pointed out that Rose is not playing well enough to win. Much like Dirk in the finals.

I honestly don't see your point. Do you really want to compare 06 Dirk to current Rose? The same Dirk that beat Duncan in a game 7 on the road.

Wow.

And nobody ever said Dirk has no help. He's simply had close to the worse help a superstar player has had since 1991. Only Lebron and KG have had worse help. Really just a fact.

You people act like Rose is playing well. I don't ****ing get it. He's playing poorly. If he had just played average the Bulls would be tied or even up 3-1. If he turns it around, I'll have no problem giving him all the credit.

I go off what I see. And what I see right now is a shot jacking point guard that is killing his team in crunch time.

[bih]

rose in regular season = mvp


rose in playoffs = exposed for being awful shooter, turnover city, ball hog

how is this any different to westbrick or durantbrick during this post season

[Bigsmoke]

MVP D-Rose CHOKES horribly vs the Heat in ECF Game 4
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pyllINeA46U