Rumor: 3 Team Trade (CLE-MIN-DET): CLE get #2 too

[MeLO MvP 15]

via Chris Broussard twitter



@Chris_Broussard Cavs would then draft Kyrie No. 1 and Derrick Williams No. 2. Nothing imminent but trade us being discussed by the teams. 7 minutes ago

@Chris_Broussard Cavs absorb Rip Hamilton into 14.6 mill trade exception & get Det's 8th pick. Cavs send 4th & 8th picks to Minny for 2nd pick 8 minutes ago

@Chris_Broussard Cavs, Pistons, Twolves discussing 3-team trade that would give Cavs 1st & 2nd picks, sources say. 11 minutes ago

Damn pretty good for all sides. Hopefully Cleveland buys out Rip.

good move for all sides, but does it really take #8 to dump RIP? I'd have to think Detroit would ask for one of Minny's late picks.

[MeLO MvP 15]

This great for Minny and Cleveland IMO. They both get the two players that fit their needs. Derrick Williams with Kryrie in Cleveland is amazing for the Cavs and Minny will probably draft either Kanter or Valanuncias or Biyombo along with a SG like Burks.

Detroit it's kind of iffy, but if moving RIP puts them under the cap it could work out, although with all this talk about an amnesty clause wouldn't they be better off just waiting... then again, they have other big contracts they could use it on (BG or Villenueva)

[Sterlingsucks]

Not a bad trade at all, RIP would get to start and get his shots they would have a good squad minus the 5 spot but im sure they will find a way to unload Twan's contract for a big. Not bad Cleveland. Minny though....WTF are you thinking ! more young players...IDK maybe Kanter and a SG or the project Bimoyo just incase they cant resign Randolph. Detroit makes out since they have RIP, Ben and Charlie V killing the cap and Stucky bout to get paid too

[iggy>]

Great trade for cleveland

[RedBlackAttack]

It isn't so much that I mind this deal... At all.

However, I think I would rather keep Picks 1, 4 and 8 over trading 4 and 8 for 2. There is an outside chance that Williams could fall to us at 4, anyway. If he doesn't, we more than likely will have Kanter, since all reports seem to be that Utah is taking Knight.

If we also had the No. 8 pick, we could get Alec Burks.

To me, Irving, Kanter, Burks > Irving, Williams


...and we still have a shot at Williams with No. 4.

:confusedshrug:

So, give me that Rip Hamilton salary for No. 8, but forget about trading it.

Btw, Gilbert is not f#cking around. He basically bought the No. 1 pick for Baron's massive contract. Now, he is looking at doing this by spending more money. I love having an owner that isn't afraid to take on huge salaries to improve the roster.

[MeLO MvP 15]

Not a bad trade at all, RIP would get to start and get his shots they would have a good squad minus the 5 spot but im sure they will find a way to unload Twan's contract for a big. Not bad Cleveland. Minny though....WTF are you thinking ! more young players...IDK maybe Kanter and a SG or the project Bimoyo just incase they cant resign Randolph. Detroit makes out since they have RIP, Ben and Charlie V killing the cap and Stucky bout to get paid too
I actually think it isn't bad for Minny because DWill is obviously the #2 guy and they have no need for him, and they would've probably drafted Kanter #2 anyways, so he'll most likely be there at #4 (and if not, they can get Valanucias or Biyombo) along with #8 (a SG like Burks would be perfect). They could end up with 2 starters if they do pick well (a C and SG)

[RedBlackAttack]

I actually think it isn't bad for Minny because DWill is obviously the #2 guy and they have no need for him, and they would've probably drafted Kanter #2 anyways, so he'll most likely be there at #4 (and if not, they can get Valanucias or Biyombo) along with #8 (a SG like Burks would be perfect). They could end up with 2 starters if they do pick well (a C and SG)
It's a very good deal for Minny. They are looking at probably Kanter/Burks instead of Williams. I like that a lot.

[Sterlingsucks]

Burks can ball just needs to work on his Jumper imo, BUT that is what Minny does not need..yea Kanter and Burks would be great for any team who is not the T-Wolves...at what point do you continue to stock in young men instead of putting vets around them? thats what Im looking at...Young teams will be good down the line BUT being a Clipper fan I know exactly what happens to young guys...they leave to get paid ! since the management wont extend their contracts. I hope it works out for them though I like the young guys they have on their squad

[GiveItToBurrito]

This great for Minny and Cleveland IMO. They both get the two players that fit their needs. Derrick Williams with Kryrie in Cleveland is amazing for the Cavs and Minny will probably draft either Kanter or Valanuncias or Biyombo along with a SG like Burks.

Detroit it's kind of iffy, but if moving RIP puts them under the cap it could work out, although with all this talk about an amnesty clause wouldn't they be better off just waiting... then again, they have other big contracts they could use it on (BG or Villenueva)

Good analysis and I totally agree.

Detroit's fans should be livid if this goes down. Hamilton's deal sucks, but they need talent at every position, with Monroe being the only guy on the team who's a definite keeper, and he's still not good enough to be top three guy on an elite team. Why do they need cap space so bad right now anyways? Lebron James or someone isn't going to save them and they really should be focused on acquiring guys in their early 20s now, since someone who's a free agent now will be over the hill by the time the team is good again (which will be at least another three years). Besides, if they wait a year, Rip "Awful Untradeable Contract" Hamilton becomes Rip "Big Expiring Contract To a Player Who Can Contribute" Hamilton.

[RedBlackAttack]

Burks can ball just needs to work on his Jumper imo, BUT that is what Minny does not need..yea Kanter and Burks would be great for any team who is not the T-Wolves...at what point do you continue to stock in young men instead of putting vets around them? thats what Im looking at...Young teams will be good down the line BUT being a Clipper fan I know exactly what happens to young guys...they leave to get paid ! since the management wont extend their contracts. I hope it works out for them though I like the young guys they have on their squad
Minnesota faces the same problem as the Clippers and the Cavs... Attracting the elite FAs is very difficult. Minnesota is not good enough to simply add mediocre veterans and be a contender. Are Beasley, Love, Flynn and maybe Rubio (if he ever comes over) really the guys that are going to develop into the kind of dominant players that you need to be an elite team, even if you surround them with a bunch of veterans?

I don't think so... Yes, they have a lot of young guys, but still no Durant or Griffin-esque elite young guys. Taking a couple more shots at stumbing into one of those kind of young guys isn't really a bad thing.

[DeuceWallaces]

Great. Dumping a lottery pick and player for an exception that won't be used.

[Sterlingsucks]

IDK If Minny got a SG they would be good and a center. Love, Randolph and Beasley are good players, so is Wesley Johnson and Rubio (no body knows) Flynn had a good rookie year then fell off but should bounce back..guys like Nick Young or RIP could do wonders for that team imo

[cavsfanatic]

It isn't so much that I mind this deal... At all.

However, I think I would rather keep Picks 1, 4 and 8 over trading 4 and 8 for 2. There is an outside chance that Williams could fall to us at 4, anyway. If he doesn't, we more than likely will have Kanter, since all reports seem to be that Utah is taking Knight.

If we also had the No. 8 pick, we could get Alec Burks.

To me, Irving, Kanter, Burks > Irving, Williams


...and we still have a shot at Williams with No. 4.

:confusedshrug:

So, give me that Rip Hamilton salary for No. 8, but forget about trading it.

Btw, Gilbert is not f#cking around. He basically bought the No. 1 pick for Baron's massive contract. Now, he is looking at doing this by spending more money. I love having an owner that isn't afraid to take on huge salaries to improve the roster. yup me 2. Kyrie,Kanter,Burcs = 1,4,8. Williams could still be there at 4

[RedBlackAttack]

yup me 2. Kyrie,Kanter,Burcs = 1,4,8. Williams could still be there at 4
...or even Kawhi Leonard at 8, who I think is going to be an elite defensive wing (exactly what we need). We have so many more options keeping the 1, 4, and 8.

If Williams falls to us at 4, we end up with Irving, Williams, Burks.

If Kanter falls to us at 4, we end up with Irving, Kanter, Leonard.

Damn... that looks great.

[RedBlackAttack]

IDK If Minny got a SG they would be good and a center. Love, Randolph and Beasley are good players, so is Wesley Johnson and Rubio (no body knows) Flynn had a good rookie year then fell off but should bounce back..guys like Nick Young or RIP could do wonders for that team imo
Forgot about Randolph. Even still, I think they are best off getting as many picks as they can in this draft (it is clear they don't need Williams) and then decide which of these young guys that they want to keep.

The ones that they feel are moveable, attempt to add veterans that way. It is never a bad thing to have a wealth of young talent... Whether for your future or for trade bait.

[kaiiu]

:banana: :banana: :banana:

[Qwyjibo]

If this goes down then it increases the chances of the Raptors getting Kanter. I assume Minnesota won't be taking him. So I like it. Derek Williams will also be able to stop pretending like he is an SF and play PF in Cleveland.

[RedBlackAttack]

If this goes down then it increases the chances of the Raptors getting Kanter. I assume Minnesota won't be taking him. So I like it. Derek Williams will also be able to stop pretending like he is an SF and play PF in Cleveland.
So, that means JJ Hickson is on his way out? :confusedshrug:

He averaged 20/12 in the last couple months of the 2011 season... He was seemingly finally 'getting it.'

[boozehound]

Not a bad trade at all, RIP would get to start and get his shots they would have a good squad minus the 5 spot but im sure they will find a way to unload Twan's contract for a big. Not bad Cleveland. Minny though....WTF are you thinking ! more young players...IDK maybe Kanter and a SG or the project Bimoyo just incase they cant resign Randolph. Detroit makes out since they have RIP, Ben and Charlie V killing the cap and Stucky bout to get paid too
all reports (all based on brousard) make it clear that rip would be bought out and go to chicago or other contender.

also, reports suggest that stuckey does not have a lot of interest around the league and will not be getting a huge contract. but we shall see.

[kaiiu]

the only thing im worried about is developing 3 top 10 picks at one time. Williams already thinks hes better than Irving so idk how this goes.

[Dasher]

Detroit needs to be receiving a future first for this. Though I don't really see anyone at 8 who will be a real upgrade anywhere. Kawhi Leonard could be a replacement for Prince, but meh.

If I were Joe, and had to do this deal I would push for a Euro-stash from both teams. Sasha Kaun and Nemanja Bjelica would be property of The Pistons.

[RedBlackAttack]

the only thing im worried about is developing 3 top 10 picks at one time.
That is a good problem to have. Look at OKC... Durant, Westbrook, Harden.

[RedBlackAttack]

Detroit needs to be receiving a future first for this. Though I don't really see anyone at 8 who will be a real upgrade anywhere. Kawhi Leonard could be a replacement for Prince, but meh.

If I were Joe, and had to do this deal I would push for a Euro-stash from both teams. Sasha Kaun and Nemanja Bjelica would be property of The Pistons.
I don't think the Pistons are in any position to bargain with their financial situation.

[Toizumi]

Give up the 8th pick just to get rid of Rip (and gain that trade exeption)? :confusedshrug:
I didn't know Rip's value was so low really. For Minny and Cleveland this is a great deal, but I don't like it for Detroit. I think they can get more for Rip..

[DeuceWallaces]

That is a good problem to have. Look at OKC... Durant, Westbrook, Harden.

And how many other times has that worked out and who is the Durant in this scenario?

[Dasher]

I don't think the Pistons are in any position to bargain with their financial situation.
I don't think it would too much to ask for The Pistons to ask for those players who may never come over anyway.

[pete's montreux]

Broussard? Eh, he's just another one of the "throw rumors out there so I can keep my job" guys.

[Dasher]

Give up the 8th pick just to get rid of Rip (and gain that trade exeption)? :confusedshrug:
I didn't know Rip's value was so low really. For Minny and Cleveland this is a great deal, but I don't like it for Detroit. I think they can get more for Rip..
This is the best they can probably get for Rip. His price point its too high for the production he provides.

[GOBB]

Is Detroit going to deal the 8th pick to Cleveland with Rip for that $14.5mil TE?

If so, then I probably would rather stick with 1, 4, and 8 as well. The only thing is there has to be more pieces to this deal since its a 3 team deal. Unless Cleveland doesnt think Derrick Williams will fall to 4 (me either) and thats who they also want. Which makes the 3 team deal make more sense as opposed to saying lets just deal with Cleveland.

What exactly is Detroit targetting by giving up the 8th pick for Cleveland TE? Must have a player/free agent in mind or something. Want Iggy? :lol

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[kaiiu]

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: i RATHER HAVE IRVING,KANTER,BURKS THAN IRVING/WILLIAMS

[Faberg]

Good analysis and I totally agree.

Detroit's fans should be livid if this goes down. Hamilton's deal sucks, but they need talent at every position, with Monroe being the only guy on the team who's a definite keeper, and he's still not good enough to be top three guy on an elite team. Why do they need cap space so bad right now anyways? Lebron James or someone isn't going to save them and they really should be focused on acquiring guys in their early 20s now, since someone who's a free agent now will be over the hill by the time the team is good again (which will be at least another three years). Besides, if they wait a year, Rip "Awful Untradeable Contract" Hamilton becomes Rip "Big Expiring Contract To a Player Who Can Contribute" Hamilton.

This is a weak ass draft and chances are that Detroit will be in the lottery again next year where the talent pool is much better. If I was a Piston fan, I wouldn't mind the trade at all.

[RedBlackAttack]

And how many other times has that worked out and who is the Durant in this scenario?
I'm not saying that there is a Durant in this scenario, just that -- if we are attempting to follow the OKC model (which it appears is the case) -- this is exactly how they built themselves into a contender.

Now, they got lucky by falling into the No. 2 spot in a year with Durant in the draft and Portland taking Oden first. Luck plays a big role in this thing... But, that is the case with anything in sports.

All you can do is put yourself in the best possible position to rebuild a franchise and I think that keeping the three picks does it more than trading 4 and 8 for 2.

That said, I'm certainly not completely against bringing in Irving and Williams... That would make for a pretty exciting 2012 season.

[Nash]

Why the **** would Minny give up their 2nd pick?

[GOBB]

Why the **** would Minny give up their 2nd pick?

Why not? They already have a #1 ranked Div 1 college basketball team. Who cares about the #2 pick when they've been drafting lottery for quite some time now.

[kaiiu]

Why not? They already have a #1 ranked Div 1 college basketball team. Who cares about the #2 pick when they've been drafting lottery for quite some time now.
:roll: :roll:

[Nash]

But won't they get 4th and 8th? That'll give them more draft picks. Why not just take Derick Williams instead of getting 2 players that are worse?

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Why the **** would Minny give up their 2nd pick?

because Minnesota doesn't need another SF/PF.

The Wolves got Kevin Love, Michael Beasley, Anthony Randolph,and Wesley Johnson.

[GOBB]

But won't they get 4th and 8th? That'll give them more draft picks. Why not just take Derick Williams instead of getting 2 players that are worse?

Because its Minnesota...they love stockpiling lottery picks that play the same position. :confusedshrug:

They could draft Enes Kanter which fills a need. But then what? They either draft another Center at 8 or draft a player that plays the same position as the other picks they drafted the last 2-3yrs.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Bismack Biyombo defensive presence is just what Minnesota needs.

[NOHCP3]

Makes sense for everybody except Detroit. CLE gets a lot of hope for the future. MIN already has plenty of players that can still become good-great at PG & SF. They slide down and perhaps get the same player @ 4 that they wanted @ 2.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Makes sense for everybody except Detroit. CLE gets a lot of hope for the future. MIN already has plenty of players that can still become good-great at PG & SF. They slide down and perhaps get the same player @ 4 that they wanted @ 2.

Bingo

Derrick Williams and Kyrie Irving is a great way to rebuild a team that was once a contender.

Minnesota either drafts Enes or Bismack and trade their other pick for some veterans.

[bigboi_baller]

Forgot to mention that if trade happens Cavs would buy out Rip Hamilton. But may be smart to wait & see if amnesty clause in new CBA....

Broussard just tweeted this

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Broussard just tweeted this

RIP to Chicago?:confusedshrug:

[GOBB]

Bingo

Derrick Williams and Kyrie Irving is a great way to rebuild a team that was once a contender.

Minnesota either drafts Enes or Bismack and trade their other pick for some veterans.

Bismack at 4? Thats hilarious. Do it Minny!

:facepalm

[Dasher]

Makes sense for everybody except Detroit. CLE gets a lot of hope for the future. MIN already has plenty of players that can still become good-great at PG & SF. They slide down and perhaps get the same player @ 4 that they wanted @ 2.
Detroit moves Rip's contract. The trade exception they receive could be used to move another of their big 3 bad deals, say Ben Gordon, and they could possibly amnesty Charlie V.

[NOHCP3]

Bingo

Derrick Williams and Kyrie Irving is a great way to rebuild a team that was once a contender.

Minnesota either drafts Enes or Bismack and trade their other pick for some veterans.

Depending on if Utah really likes Knight.

But Enes, Beas and Love would be nice :cheers:

[swi7ch]

Rip to MIA... go! :bowdown:

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Bismack at 4? Thats hilarious. Do it Minny!

:facepalm

umm don't we have the 8th pick as well?

and either way if we land Bismack at the 8th spot than we can trade Enes (if we get him)

[NOHCP3]

Detroit moves Rip's contract. The trade exception they receive could be used to move another of their big 3 bad deals, say Ben Gordon, and they could possibly amnesty Charlie V.


Ahhh I see guess it works on all fronts. Guess the 8th pick is worth a clean slate in DET.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Depending on if Utah really likes Knight.

But Enes, Beas and Love would be nice :cheers:

is Enes a good defensive player?

We need a defender @ that position.

[bagelred]

Just read the OP. First reaction? How far has RIP's stock fallen to give up a Top 10 pick just to be rid of him....geez.

Also, is the player Cavs getting at #2 MUCH better than what they get at #4? Seems like a steep price taking Hamilton's huge contract for a 2 spot move up.

[bagelred]

Detroit moves Rip's contract. The trade exception they receive could be used to move another of their big 3 bad deals, say Ben Gordon, and they could possibly amnesty Charlie V.

That's not right....explain.

[RedBlackAttack]

Just read the OP. First reaction? How far has RIP's stock fallen to give up a Top 10 pick just to be rid of him....geez.

Also, is the player Cavs getting at #2 MUCH better than what they get at #4? Seems like a steep price taking Hamilton's huge contract for a 2 spot move up.
Well, since we know the players in question, we can dissect it ourselves. Moving up to No. 2 is a clear indication that the Cavs want a Irving/Williams combo. In all likelihood, Kanter or Valanciunas would be the pick at 4, from everything I'm hearing (unless Williams was to somehow drop, which I doubt).

So, the question for the Cavs' FO is this...

Is Williams' potential that much higher in the NBA than the two Euro big men? Apparently, if they pull off the deal, the answer is an unequivocal 'yes.'

I will say that Williams seemed to have the 'it' factor in both the conference tourney and the national tourney last season. What his role on this Cavs team will be remains clouded, though... The uncertainty about his position is a little concerning to me, but then again, if the Cavs are willing to give up so much to move up, they must already have a plan in mind.

One thing is for sure... It would be a damn exciting turn of events to have the Top 2 picks in the draft entering next season.

[NOHCP3]

is Enes a good defensive player?

We need a defender @ that position.

I'd go with Bismack just on length and wingspan alone. Hard to see him @ 4. Enes would help take the rebounding loud off love.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

I'd go with Bismack just on length and wingspan alone. Hard to see him @ 4. Enes would help take the rebounding loud off love.

I see a lot of sites comparing Bismack to Ben Wallace:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

if he ends up that good, Kevin Love and Beasley wont have to worry about defense :oldlol: :oldlol:

http://www.thesportsbank.net/core/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/congo.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_SB-ZKAhGM

Look @ him own the paint

[RedBlackAttack]

I see a lot of sites comparing Bismack to Ben Wallace:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

if he ends up that good, Kevin Love and Beasley wont have to worry about defense :oldlol: :oldlol:

http://www.thesportsbank.net/core/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/congo.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_SB-ZKAhGM

Look @ him own the paint
Diop.

[MeLO MvP 15]

Just read the OP. First reaction? How far has RIP's stock fallen to give up a Top 10 pick just to be rid of him....geez.

Also, is the player Cavs getting at #2 MUCH better than what they get at #4? Seems like a steep price taking Hamilton's huge contract for a 2 spot move up.
I agree with the first part. They must rly want to dump RIP to get rid of #8 (and don't rly want any1 in this draft).

But for Cleveland I think it is worth it taking on RIP for #2 just b/c in this draft after Irving and Williams there is supposedly a major drop off. They could get the only two future all stars in the draft. Great way to rebuild. Similar to how OKC/Seattle got Durant at #2 and Green (at #6? or something high) in one draft to start rebuilding.

They def need Williams much more than one of the euro bigs (Varajao and Hickson are pretty good).

Cleveland's future would look rly bright with Irving and Williams to go with Hickson and Varajao.


I really hope this goes through because I rly want RIP to be a FA and sign with NY!!!

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Diop.
:oldlol: :oldlol: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I hope not

[Dasher]

The TE The Pistons used can be used in a trade to bring back picks or players whose draft rights are held, but are not currently playing in The NBA. Package those picks/draft rights with BG to make him more attractive...move him. Amnesty the cancer patient if that is apart of the new CBA.

[InspiredLebowski]

Pretty sure once a team moves Player X for a trade exception the trade exception ceases to exist. It doesn't become some 12 million whatever dollar cancelled check that can be passed around the league or something.

[PleezeBelieve]

Cavs should value #1, #4, #8 more than #1 + #2. I mean just look at it from a practical point of view -- Cavs fill three positions of need. Drafting Williams to hope he can play small forward is a risk that I wouldn't want to take when you can get the top players at PG, SG, and C.

Irving
Burks
Eyenga
Hickson
Valancuinas

I like that line up better than adding just Irving and Williams. But then again, Williams seems to have a rare quality about him that gives me a sense he wants to be the best, period. He's not afraid of the moment.

Cavs have my approval to make this deal.

[RedBlackAttack]

:oldlol: :oldlol: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I hope not
Listen, I have nothing against Minnesota and, in fact, I root for all of the small market teams to do well... But I fear another Diop when I look at Bismack. He literally looks like the same guy... Except Bismack is smaller, which is a concern.

If you draft him, I hope for nothing but the best, but I would be wary if I were you.

[Nash]

because Minnesota doesn't need another SF/PF.

The Wolves got Kevin Love, Michael Beasley, Anthony Randolph,and Wesley Johnson.
Trade value? Derrick Williams could get them something..

[InspiredLebowski]

There's been a ton of luck involved for Cleveland, but if they can come out of this with 1 + 2 their GM's done a pretty impressive job. Assuming the picks pan out obviously.

[RedBlackAttack]

Cavs should value #1, #4, #8 more than #1 + #2. I mean just look at it from a practical point of view -- Cavs fill three positions of need. Drafting Williams to hope he can play small forward is a risk that I wouldn't want to take when you can get the top players at PG, SG, and C.

Irving
Burks
Eyenga
Hickson
Valancuinas

I like that line up better than adding just Irving and Williams. But then again, Williams seems to have a rare quality about him that gives me a sense he wants to be the best, period. He's not afraid of the moment.

Cavs have my approval to make this deal.
I agree (except I take Kanter over Valancuinas, but that is an argument for another day).

Grabbing Irving, the top Euro prospect AND Burks or Leonard would be my ideal draft. However, if the Cavs' FO is this excited about the prospect of a Irving/Williams combo that they are willing to trade 4 and 8, I can't help but be a little excited about it.

Like I said... Williams does seem to have an intangible 'it' factor. The Q would be electric for Game 1 of the regular season, that is for sure... Hell, it would be electric for Game 1 of the preseason with that kind of influx of talent.

[RedBlackAttack]

There's been a ton of luck involved for Cleveland, but if they can come out of this with 1 + 2 their GM's done a pretty impressive job. Assuming the picks pan out obviously.
I don't even think that the picks need to pan out for us to look at the situation and praise the Cleveland FO. Getting the right guy in the draft is as much luck as hitting the right numbers in the draft lottery, imo.

If Portland takes Durant, Seattle would have been thrilled to get Oden. That was just a total luck of the draw, which you need to build an elite team.

However, Gilbert has taken some of the luck out of it...

He bought a lottery pick from the Clippers, which turned out to be No. 1. Obviously, no one knew it was No. 1 at the time, but the more lottery picks you own, the better the chance that you are going to get the top pick.

Now, he is looking to buy another lottery pick simply by eating salary.

In this day and age, where most franchises are looking to disarm themselves of bad contracts, Gilbert is taking advantage of it... And, while there is a lot about his ownership that I haven't agreed with, I can't help but to be pretty fired up that we have a guy who is willing to spend a ton of money to improve the roster.

It is sort of a rarity in the NBA these days.

[knickballer]

If the Cavs can get 1,4,8 without trading and future picks that is ****ing great for them..

So Many options Irving, Williams, Kanter, Veselt, Valancious, etc


I would get Irving, Kanter and hope Vesely fall at #8

PG: Irving
SG: Rip
SF: Vesely
PF: Hickson/Jamison
C: Kanter

With B-davis, Jamison and even Gibson off the bench, not bad.


Cavs must get Kanter though.. He's a stud and an elite prospect imo.

[RedBlackAttack]

If the Cavs can get 1,4,8 without trading and future picks that is ****ing great for them..

So Many options Irving, Williams, Kanter, Veselt, Valancious, etc


I would get Irving, Kanter and hope Vesely fall at #8

PG: Irving
SG: Rip
SF: Vesely
PF: Hickson/Jamison
C: Kanter

With B-davis, Jamison and even Gibson off the bench, not bad.


Cavs must get Kanter though.. He's a stud and an elite prospect imo.
Rip WILL NOT be playing in Cleveland. This is strictly a buy-out situation, if it happens. We really need to address the SG position if we keep the picks, which is why I like Burks at No. 8.

Irving/Sessions
Burks/AP(?)
Eyenga/Jamison
Hickson/Samuels
Varejao/Kanter or Valancuinas

That is a very nice young team, imo.

Let's look at it with Irving/Williams...

Irving/Sessions
AP(?)/Eyenga (can he play the 2?)
Williams/Jamison
Hickson/Samuels
Varejao/Erden/Hollins


Either way, we have drastically upgraded the roster and potential.

[RedBlackAttack]

Looks like things are heating up or cooling down, depending on which way you look at it...

Broussard:

Detroit won't do 3-team deal as proposed. Would need to get players back in return for Rip and 8th pick...stay tuned

[MeLO MvP 15]

Looks like things are heating up or cooling down, depending on which way you look at it...

Broussard:
Maybe Flynn and one of Cleveland's young bench players goes to Detroit to even it out.

Or add in Minny's 20th pick and Cleveland's 32 or w.e pick going to Detroit.

[FireDavidKahn]

Does this really surprise anyone? This is David Kahn we are talking about:oldlol:

[RedBlackAttack]

Maybe Flynn and one of Cleveland's young bench players goes to Detroit to even it out.

Or add in Minny's 20th pick and Cleveland's 32 or w.e pick going to Detroit.
Sessions could be in play, here, if the Pistons want him. With Irving coming in and Baron serving as his mentor, there isn't a ton of room for Ramon on the roster.

[Hondo]

I like the deal with Sessions added to it.

Minnesota make out like the real winners here though, turning a player (Williams) they don't need into 2 players that can fill positional needs.
At 4, they can take Kanter and at 8 Biyombo. They may wan to take Walker or Burks with one of those picks.

[blablabla]

Sessions could be in play, here, if the Pistons want him. With Irving coming in and Baron serving as his mentor, there isn't a ton of room for Ramon on the roster.

pistons have stuckey(if they resign him) and bynum they don't need sessions

[RedBlackAttack]

pistons have stuckey(if they resign him) and bynum they don't need sessions
Well, that is about as good as it is going to get. They aren't getting Hickson or Eyenga or Samuels.

Sessions or Gibson are probably the only guys that would be in play. If they can't use him, there are plenty of teams that could. They could flip him for a wing player or frontcourt player or maybe even a future draft pick.

[Hondo]

Well, that is about as good as it is going to get. They aren't getting Hickson or Eyenga or Samuels.

Sessions or Gibson are probably the only guys that would be in play. If they can't use him, there are plenty of teams that could. They could flip him for a wing player or frontcourt player or maybe even a future draft pick.

Minnesota might also put Flynn into the deal, seeing as how they make out like bandits in this deal.

Flynn, if healthy, is a big upgrade over Detroit's current point guards. He just has not been bale to be showcased properly. His one healthy year, he was running the triangle, dumb-ass Rambis.

[NOHCP3]

I see a lot of sites comparing Bismack to Ben Wallace:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

if he ends up that good, Kevin Love and Beasley wont have to worry about defense :oldlol: :oldlol:

http://www.thesportsbank.net/core/wp-content/uploads/2011/04/congo.jpg

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I_SB-ZKAhGM

Look @ him own the paint

I see a lot of Serge Ibaka comparisons too. Might just be the Congo relation.

[InspiredLebowski]

Sessions could be in play, here, if the Pistons want him. With Irving coming in and Baron serving as his mentor, there isn't a ton of room for Ramon on the roster.Is that really ideal? It's not exactly a Wizards situation with Wall and Arenas, but Baron's fat ass is about the last guy I'd want my young franchise cornerstone learning from.

[RedBlackAttack]

Is that really ideal? It's not exactly a Wizards situation with Wall and Arenas, but Baron's fat ass is about the last guy I'd want my young franchise cornerstone learning from.
I have to say, I was very impressed with Baron's professionalism last year. I know that he has a reputation that he definitely earned as being a malcontent, but he was nothing but a pure, class professional last season in Cleveland. I think he and Byron have developed a good relationship and Byron knows how to deal with him.... And he respects Byron.

If BD continues the way he started in Cleveland, I have no problem with him being a mentor for Kyrie.

[LA_Showtime]

Wouldn't it just be smarter to keep picks 1, 4, and 8? I don't see why having the first two picks in the draft would be better than that, especially since they could still get Williams at 4.

[LA_Showtime]

I have to say, I was very impressed with Baron's professionalism last year. I know that he has a reputation that he definitely earned as being a malcontent, but he was nothing but a pure, class professional last season in Cleveland. I think he and Byron have developed a good relationship and Byron knows how to deal with him.... And he respects Byron.

If BD continues the way he started in Cleveland, I have no problem with him being a mentor for Kyrie.

Baron's on his best behavior both on and off the court (off the court = weight) because he doesn't want to retire in Cleveland. He's going to come into this year in shape, and I expect he'll be traded around the deadline for a pick/player.

[NOHCP3]

I have to say, I was very impressed with Baron's professionalism last year. I know that he has a reputation that he definitely earned as being a malcontent, but he was nothing but a pure, class professional last season in Cleveland. I think he and Byron have developed a good relationship and Byron knows how to deal with him.... And he respects Byron.

If BD continues the way he started in Cleveland, I have no problem with him being a mentor for Kyrie.

If there is a lockout how much do u wanna bet that Baron Davis is carted into the Q on top of the Oscar Meyer Hot Dog truck. IMO he still would love to stick it to B.Scott

[hawkfan]

Terrible trade for Detroit.
An 8th pick in a draft can be a rotation player for a decade. Paul Pierce was picked no. 10.

They should just sit out Rip Hamilton and then trade him next season. Or trade Rip for Baron Davis.

[hawkfan]

Wouldn't it just be smarter to keep picks 1, 4, and 8? I don't see why having the first two picks in the draft would be better than that, especially since they could still get Williams at 4.

Plus 1.

[BankShot]

I like the deal with Sessions added to it.

Minnesota make out like the real winners here though, turning a player (Williams) they don't need into 2 players that can fill positional needs.
At 4, they can take Kanter and at 8 Biyombo. They may wan to take Walker or Burks with one of those picks.

Exactly... I'm not sure why people are talking shit about the Wolves' involvement here.

Its obvious that Williams is the #2 pick.... and it should be obvious that the Wolves do not need him given their current depth chart.

Drafting anyone other than Williams at the #2 is missing a chance to trade down, get the player they want, and get an asset or two as well.

[RedBlackAttack]

Wouldn't it just be smarter to keep picks 1, 4, and 8? I don't see why having the first two picks in the draft would be better than that, especially since they could still get Williams at 4.
Obviously, if the Cavs were to make this deal, it means that they were getting information indicating that there was no way that Williams is lasting until No. 4 (which I also think is a huge stretch).

Listen, if the Cavs pull the Top 2 picks in the draft simply by buying up bad contracts, I'm all for it.

[InspiredLebowski]

I have to say, I was very impressed with Baron's professionalism last year. I know that he has a reputation that he definitely earned as being a malcontent, but he was nothing but a pure, class professional last season in Cleveland. I think he and Byron have developed a good relationship and Byron knows how to deal with him.... And he respects Byron.

If BD continues the way he started in Cleveland, I have no problem with him being a mentor for Kyrie.I guess that's true, I'd forgotten all about Scott and him being pretty good with his PGs and keeping them happy. And I admittedly didn't follow what Baron did in Cleveland at all. Long as Irving doesn't pattern his game on the floor after him I suppose it could be a good situation.

[GOBB]

Minny needs to trade one of the two picks they aquired. Saying this helps them draft positional needs is funny given they pretty much drafted every position except Center. Which isnt exactly strong this draft. So you get a Center (need) with one pick then the next pick is basically adding what you already have. I dont mind Minny trading the #2 pick, but they need to start turning lottery picks into proven talent. Not rolling the dice once again.


Also why do people think Derrick Williams drops to 4? No chance that happens.

[Bigsmoke]

3 garbage teams :sleeping

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Exactly... I'm not sure why people are talking shit about the Wolves' involvement here.

Its obvious that Williams is the #2 pick.... and it should be obvious that the Wolves do not need him given their current depth chart.

Drafting anyone other than Williams at the #2 is missing a chance to trade down, get the player they want, and get an asset or two as well.

BankSh0t who do you want the Wolves to draft?

[kaiiu]

3 garbage teams :sleeping
The Heat just made the Bulls look like the 4th garbage team :oldlol:

[BankShot]

BankSh0t who do you want the Wolves to draft?

This draft is so tough to gauge because of the lack of star-quality talent. I'm absolutely not convinced that Irving or Williams are franchise-changing players, and I don't know enough about the international big men of mystery to know whether they have the potential to be Pau/Dirk quality, or simply another round of Bargnanis

For me, I really like Brandon Knight's combination of size, defense, shooting, and character.... yeah I know the jokes that will be told about PGs, but I think he's going to be the best guard in this class.

Kanter is big and talented... but is he skilled enough to be a rangy post player, or his he physical enough to play the block?? Who knows.

Walker seems like another Johnny Flynn.... please Minnesota avoid him at all costs.

Montejunas has been on the radar as a potential top-5 pick for a long time, but has slipped to the mid-to-late-first round... for whatever reason. I'd love to see the Wolves trade up from the end of the 1st round to take a look at him. Singleton (?) from Florida State also intruiges me... he sounds like a Mbah Moute type player that can defend just about any position on the floor.

Byiombo is intriguing... but seems one-dimensional, extremely raw, and a long way from being a contributer to a good NBA team.

I don't know who they should draft. :confusedshrug:

[Rowe]

This draft is so tough to gauge because of the lack of star-quality talent. I'm absolutely not convinced that Irving or Williams are franchise-changing players, and I don't know enough about the international big men of mystery to know whether they have the potential to be Pau/Dirk quality, or simply another round of Bargnanis

For me, I really like Brandon Knight's combination of size, defense, shooting, and character.... yeah I know the jokes that will be told about PGs, but I think he's going to be the best guard in this class.

Kanter is big and talented... but is he skilled enough to be a rangy post player, or his he physical enough to play the block?? Who knows.

Walker seems like another Johnny Flynn.... please Minnesota avoid him at all costs.

Montejunas has been on the radar as a potential top-5 pick for a long time, but has slipped to the mid-to-late-first round... for whatever reason. I'd love to see the Wolves trade up from the end of the 1st round to take a look at him. Singleton (?) from Florida State also intruiges me... he sounds like a Mbah Moute type player that can defend just about any position on the floor.

Byiombo is intriguing... but seems one-dimensional, extremely raw, and a long way from being a contributer to a good NBA team.

I don't know who they should draft. :confusedshrug:

Actually Jimmer would be a great fit there. Minnesota would be better served to slide down a little to get him, but it would be a great fit.

[B-Easy8]

The Wolves get exceptional value from this trade but at the same time I don't think we need 3 picks in the top 20, we need to win now. I would do this trade and then make a lot of trades. I am also very high on Knight but I think we have too many PG's to draft him. I seem to be one of the few who thinks that Flynn can still be a good PG in this league. His rookie season was pretty good for a guy that only had 1 good player on his team (Al Jeff), between his injuries and Kurt Rambis he had no chance to play to his potential I think he only saw 15+ minutes last season maybe 3 or 4 times. He is a very good pick and roll player so I would like to see Rambis fired and we keep Flynn as he will do better with another coaches offense. If Rubio comes over we are set at the PG position with Rubio and Flynn and we trade Ridnour. If Rubio doesn't come over we keep Ridnour as our backup and trade Rubio.

We then have Ridnour or Rubio, #4, #8, #20, Darko, Pekovic and Ellington or Hayward that can all be moved. I would use either pick 4 or 8 to fill a hole that we need, either Kanter at 4 or Biyombo at 8 and trade everything else to get a veteran defensive minded C and some role players off the bench.

[B-Easy8]

Actually Jimmer would be a great fit there. Minnesota would be better served to slide down a little to get him, but it would be a great fit.

We don't really have a problem scoring, it's our defense that needs major help.

[RedBlackAttack]

For me, I really like Brandon Knight's combination of size, defense, shooting, and character.... yeah I know the jokes that will be told about PGs, but I think he's going to be the best guard in this class.

It is interesting that you point out Knight's combination of size, defense, shooting and character as reasons for him being the top guard.

Irving is taller, bigger, has longer arms, is a better shooter and has a pretty sterling reputation when it comes to character... His defense was also good on the collegiate level (we'll see how it translates). I like Knight as a player, but there aren't any measurables that favor Knight over Irving.

[jbryan1984]

I am really not putting any credibility into these "rumored" trades concerning Cleveland because they are all win/win for us. Has anyone ever had the 1st and 2nd picks? If we do this trade, I know Gilbert don't want 3 guys in their 30's making 13 million plus a year so I would expect Jamison to be offered to a contender for some future draft picks. No matter what role he plays, he is going to score for you. He would be great off the bench for any contending team just to come in while the starters rest and score. I wanna keep Baron around because he will be a great teacher and extension of coach Scott for Kyrie. If we get Williams, probably drop Alonzo Gee. Rip, I think he just needs a fresh start out of Detroit, he's been there so long. We would look like this if all goes how I said.......

Irving/Davis/Sessions
Hamilton/Gibson/Harris
Williams/Eyenga/Graham
Hickson/Samuels/Harangody
Varejao/Erden/Hollins

[B-Easy8]

It is interesting that you point out Knight's combination of size, defense, shooting and character as reasons for him being the top guard.

Irving is taller, bigger, has longer arms, is a better shooter and has a pretty sterling reputation when it comes to character... His defense was also good on the collegiate level (we'll see how it translates). I like Knight as a player, but there aren't any measurables that favor Knight over Irving.

Knight is taller and heavier than Irving.

[MeLO MvP 15]

I am really not putting any credibility into these "rumored" trades concerning Cleveland because they are all win/win for us. Has anyone ever had the 1st and 2nd picks? If we do this trade, I know Gilbert don't want 3 guys in their 30's making 13 million plus a year so I would expect Jamison to be offered to a contender for some future draft picks. No matter what role he plays, he is going to score for you. He would be great off the bench for any contending team just to come in while the starters rest and score. I wanna keep Baron around because he will be a great teacher and extension of coach Scott for Kyrie. If we get Williams, probably drop Alonzo Gee. Rip, I think he just needs a fresh start out of Detroit, he's been there so long. We would look like this if all goes how I said.......

Irving/Davis/Sessions
Hamilton/Gibson/Harris
Williams/Eyenga/Graham
Hickson/Samuels/Harangody
Varejao/Erden/Hollins

RIP would most likely be bought out unless the Cavs really want his veteran leadership. But considering how he was in Detroit, he'd probably demand a trade or play like crap.

But an Irving/DWill/Hickson/Varajao core is rly good and if they could find a way to add a young SG and some solid depth, then they have an extremely bright future.

[kaiiu]

Knight is taller and heavier than Irving.
Irving is closer to 6'4 and Knight is closer to 6'2

[B-Easy8]

Irving is closer to 6'4 and Knight is closer to 6'2

Everywhere I have heard that Irving is 6'2 and Knight is 6'3 pushing 6'4.

[Nastradamus]

Detroit won't do it, but if they did, Cleveland would be pretty sick. Irving,Rip,Williams,Hickson,Varejao is a legit starting lineup. Sessions,Davis,Eyenga,Jamison,Harris on the bench. Try to get Jeremy Tyler in the 2nd or something.

[BankShot]

It is interesting that you point out Knight's combination of size, defense, shooting and character as reasons for him being the top guard.

Irving is taller, bigger, has longer arms, is a better shooter and has a pretty sterling reputation when it comes to character... His defense was also good on the collegiate level (we'll see how it translates). I like Knight as a player, but there aren't any measurables that favor Knight over Irving.

I'm going with what I've seen in the college season, and how the so-called experts percieved the combine results and his potential as an NBA player. Since Irving played little college ball, and sat out the combine, this is what I've based my novice opinion upon.

I'm not saying Irving will be a bust... I just like what I've seen out of Knight more. :confusedshrug:

[BankShot]

Actually Jimmer would be a great fit there. Minnesota would be better served to slide down a little to get him, but it would be a great fit.

Please, Minnesota, stay away from Jimmer unless it is at the end of the 1st, or beginning of the 2nd, round.

I'm sure he'll be a legitimate NBA player... but he's hardly a "great fit there"

What is he gonna play? PG or SG? Starter or bench player?

Long, athletic, and multi-faceted is what the Wolves are/should be going for.

[Nobler]

It is interesting that you point out Knight's combination of size, defense, shooting and character as reasons for him being the top guard.

Irving is taller, bigger, has longer arms, is a better shooter and has a pretty sterling reputation when it comes to character... His defense was also good on the collegiate level (we'll see how it translates). I like Knight as a player, but there aren't any measurables that favor Knight over Irving.


Knight is clutch as hell though cant teach that

[bagelred]

Let's give Gilbert some credit. He's willing to eat huge contracts just to get a draft pick. How many small market teams would do that?

And he's a Jew.......it's all good........:cheers:

[Black Joker]

Everywhere I have heard that Irving is 6'2 and Knight is 6'3 pushing 6'4.
official results from the draft combine have Knight at 6' 3.25" in shoes vs Irving at 6' 3.5" in shoes, and Knight at 177lbs vs Irving at 191(albeit at a much higher body fat)

[ConanRulesNBC]

What are the chances of Rip going to the Bulls next season?

[RedBlackAttack]

Knight is taller and heavier than Irving.
No, he's not... Unless you feel as though the COMBINE numbers have been fudged, magically. Unfortunately, the combine is the most legitimate, accurate and completely precise measurement that we will ever get of the two guys.

And, here they are...

Kyrie Irving - 6' 1.75" without shoes, 6' 3.5" with shoes, 191 pounds, 6' 4" wingspan, 8' 3" reach, 8.25 hand length, 9.25 hand width

Brandon Knight - 6' 1.5" without shoes, 6' 3.25" with shoes, 177 pounds, 6' 6.75" wingspan, 8' 2.5" reach, 8.25 hand length, 9.50 hand width


So, essentially Irving is taller with and without shoes, he weighs more, he has a longer reach and hand measurements are exactly the same.

The only area that favors Knight is in wingspan, which is nullified by Irving's longer reach.


Here is how their official NBA measurements will look, since they use the 'with shoes' height and round to the nearest whole number in inches...

Kyrie Irving - 6-foot-4, 191 pounds

Brandon Knight - 6-foot-3, 177 pounds


Irving is bigger than Knight and it isn't debatable. I will admit that I also thought that Knight was going to be the biggest PG in this draft pre-Combine, but you can't argue with the facts.

Not only is Irving bigger than Knight, he will be one of the tallest PGs in the NBA.

You can look for yourself...

Kyrie Irving Combine Results (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Kyrie-Irving-5735/)

Brandon Knight Combine Results (http://www.draftexpress.com/profile/Brandon-Knight-5140/)



I am really not putting any credibility into these "rumored" trades concerning Cleveland because they are all win/win for us. Has anyone ever had the 1st and 2nd picks? If we do this trade, I know Gilbert don't want 3 guys in their 30's making 13 million plus a year so I would expect Jamison to be offered to a contender for some future draft picks. No matter what role he plays, he is going to score for you. He would be great off the bench for any contending team just to come in while the starters rest and score. I wanna keep Baron around because he will be a great teacher and extension of coach Scott for Kyrie. If we get Williams, probably drop Alonzo Gee. Rip, I think he just needs a fresh start out of Detroit, he's been there so long. We would look like this if all goes how I said.......

Irving/Davis/Sessions
Hamilton/Gibson/Harris
Williams/Eyenga/Graham
Hickson/Samuels/Harangody
Varejao/Erden/Hollins

Rip will not ever be in a single lineup with the Cleveland Cavaliers. If this deal is eventually done, it will be a for-sure buyout situation. He has made it clear that he will not play for the Cavs... And that is fine with me. I don't want him anywhere near this young team with his record of insubordination and undermining his coaches.


Everywhere I have heard that Irving is 6'2 and Knight is 6'3 pushing 6'4.

Again, don't base it on hearsay... Just look at the actual, precise measurements done at the Combine. Irving is taller, bigger, has a longer reach and they have the same size hands.

Projections of size going into the Combine are moot, at this point... Combine is done, Irving is bigger/taller/rangier.


I'm going with what I've seen in the college season, and how the so-called experts percieved the combine results and his potential as an NBA player. Since Irving played little college ball, and sat out the combine, this is what I've based my novice opinion upon.

I'm not saying Irving will be a bust... I just like what I've seen out of Knight more. :confusedshrug:

That is fine and I like Knight, as well... Although, I think Irving is the best prospect in the draft -- far and away.

My point was, you can't really use size as a reason to pick Knight over Irving. It is a proven fact that Irving is the bigger/taller/rangier man... And there is also no doubt that he is a better shooter with a very high-caliber character.

There isn't much not to like when it comes to Irving in those areas. I'm not saying that Irving will definitely be better than Knight, but it is hard to point to a single measurable that would prove otherwise or be in Brandon's favor. Thankfully, NBA players don't live and die strictly upon their measurables, though.

Otherwise, Charles Barkley would have never made an NBA roster and Desagana Diop would be the greatest player of all-time.

The good thing about the official numbers for Irving, though, is that size was projected to be one of his hurdles on the next level. Clearly, not only will it not be a hurdle, but it will be an advantage against the vast majority of PGs in the league.