Shaq criticizes LeBron for how he left Cleveland

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Everyone has an opinion. Shaquille O'Neal weighs in on the most controversial subject in the NBA over the past year, LeBron's decision to leave Cleveland. Shaq's opinion is noteworthy, as the Big Diesel was right in the middle of the Cleveland soap opera last season when they failed to make it past the Celtics in the second round.

According to Ken Berger from cbssports.com:


If he had been straight up with the guy [Cavaliers owner Dan Gilbert], like, 'I'm not coming back,' and let the guy make moves and try to build his team, everything would've been all right," O'Neal said. "But you can't keep messing around -- 'I don't know, I don't know, I don't know.' And then, 'All right, Mike [Brown], you're gone. All right, you're gone, you're gone.' The guy was trying to make it better for LeBron, but LeBron and his group of guys didn't tell him what was going on. And then at the last minute, it was too late. The guy couldn't go out and get any free agents. I just think if LeBron had just done it better business-tactically, things would've been all right.

http://www.cbssports.com/nba/story/15196356/oneal-departs-the-nba-with-plenty-of-options-advice

[kaiiu]

:bowdown: :bowdown: Shaq is a real ni99a :applause:

[Patrick Chewing]

Well, Shaq is wise, whereas LeBron is a complete idiot. I mean does his own mother come to watch him play?? I feel sorry for the bastard.

[Mr. Jabbar]

Lebron Did the pussiest move ever, some may say it, others will remain silent, but we all know it, we were actually witnesses

[gilalizard]

Respect to Shaq for speaking the simple truth.

[Bigsmoke]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WGIHYBb6wE

[Shepseskaf]

Essentially true, but is Shaq the one who should be dispensing knowledge on the proper way to leave a team?

[gilalizard]

Essentially true, but is Shaq the one who should be dispensing knowledge on the proper way to leave a team?


Shooting the messenger doesn't make the message less true.

[Ne 1]

Lebron Did the pussiest move ever, some may say it, others will remain silent, but we all know it, we were actually witnesses

Yeah, it's really the way LeBron left that made the Cavs fans and organization so angry, not just that he left. His little tv gig was a punk move and the whole time he always suggested that he was going to return to Cleveland. I mean he had every right to go play for who ever he wanted to play for, but the way he handled it was classless.

But it's over now and at some point you just have to let bygones be bygones.

[RedBlackAttack]

Essentially true, but is Shaq the one who should be dispensing knowledge on the proper way to leave a team?
Actually, I can't think of anyone more qualified. He was completely straight-forward with Orlando prior to his leaving for LA.

[gilalizard]

Yeah, it's really the way LeBron left that made the Cavs fans and organization so angry, not just that he left. His little tv gig was a punk move and the whole time he always suggested that he was going to return to Cleveland. I mean he had every right to go play for who ever he wanted to play for, but the way he handled it was classless.

But it's over now and at some point you just have to let bygones be bygones.

Nope. It's part of his legacy and will be rightfully talked about and held against him forever.

The guy has actively sought out the spotlight. He (and his stans) just don't like it when the spotlight highlights his flaws.

[Ne 1]

Nope. It's part of his legacy and will be rightfully talked about and held against him forever.

The guy has actively sought out the spotlight. He (and his stans) just don't like it when the spotlight highlights his flaws.

Oh, I agree. His legacy is going to take a hit because of it.

[AlphaWolf24]

The "Decision" thing is just strange all around....2009 he preaches to everyone that he's going to change his number to #6 after the 2010 season... and his reasoning "Jordan's #23 should be retired leaguewide"....

2010 he leads the Cavs to a 63 win season and the best record in the NBA...Cav's are the favorites to win it all...after a disappointing loss to the Celtics he then decides Cleveland's front office failed to build a team around him that is "good enough to win it all"....so he leaves to Miami to join Wade and Bosh after never telling Cleveland until the the television show:confusedshrug:

Miami has a worse record then the Cavs the year before...even if he does win..so what:confusedshrug: ....he should have stayed in his hometown.

it just so happens that the #23 in Miami is "retired" by Jordan :lol ...how "convenient" for Lebron....

[Pointguard]

Shooting the messenger doesn't make the message less true.
Can mean that its a motivated discussion - not something in his heart. Shaq has been the best example in the history of the sport on how not to leave a team. He was on a show with Dennis Scott talking about he and Kobe had a good relationship and that he had to press certain buttons? He dogged his ex-coach out in a way unheard of in professional sports. Didn't get surgery once during the off season because he got hurt on company time. He often dogged his worth with weight problems. I'm sure the Magic weren't happy with his departure. He's trying to make amends and who is to say this isn't one of the "get on the popular side of things" to clean up his legacy.

This is like Shaq telling Dirk how to shoot free throws. He might have a good point but it seems incredibly odd.

[knightfall88]

Deception was the issue with how he left Cleveland.

Just a few names, Shaq, Melo, KG all told their organisations that they wanted to go

[joe]

Can mean that its a motivated discussion - not something in his heart. Shaq has been the best example in the history of the sport on how not to leave a team. He was on a show with Dennis Scott talking about he and Kobe had a good relationship and that he had to press certain buttons? He dogged his ex-coach out in a way unheard of in professional sports. Didn't get surgery once during the off season because he got hurt on company time. He often dogged his worth with weight problems. I'm sure the Magic weren't happy with his departure. He's trying to make amends and who is to say this isn't one of the "get on the popular side of things" to clean up his legacy.

This is like Shaq telling Dirk how to shoot free throws. He might have a good point but it seems incredibly odd.

You're missing the point. Your argument does nothing to dispute Shaq's, only claims he is biased to begin with. Dispute his arguments, not his credibility.


Circumstantial

Ad hominem circumstantial points out that someone is in circumstances such that he is disposed to take a particular position. Ad hominem circumstantial constitutes an attack on the bias of a source. This is fallacious because a disposition to make a certain argument does not make the argument false; this overlaps with the genetic fallacy (an argument that a claim is incorrect due to its source).[5]

[WadeBronDonJuan]

The "Decision" thing is just strange all around....2009 he preaches to everyone that he's going to change his number to #6 after the 2010 season... and his reasoning "Jordan's #23 should be retired leaguewide"....

2010 he leads the Cavs to a 63 win season and the best record in the NBA...Cav's are the favorites to win it all...after a disappointing loss to the Celtics he then decides Cleveland's front office failed to build a team around him that is "good enough to win it all"....so he leaves to Miami to join Wade and Bosh after never telling Cleveland until the the television show:confusedshrug:

Miami has a worse record then the Cavs the year before...even if he does win..so what:confusedshrug: ....he should have stayed in his hometown.

it just so happens that the #23 in Miami is "retired" by Jordan :lol ...how "convenient" for Lebron....

Oh I guess he should have called and asked you for your opinion. If so, he would have known that he is OBLIGATED to stay in his hometown. Do you people realize that he doesn't owe the city of Cleveland a da** thing?

[Samurai Swoosh]

Do you people realize that he doesn't owe the city of Cleveland a da** thing?
No, but loyalty counts for something in this world. As does standing by your word. Back in the day, man stood by their word because that's all you had to opperate on. LeBron is still a child. He's lead by others. Both on the court and off the court. It's his comfort zone, because in actuality, he really isn't his own man. He isn't his own brand. He doesn't run the show. Others do it for him. He's not someone who can handle pressure particularly well. I'm sure you wouldn't know anything about that either.

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

Oh I guess he should have called and asked you for your opinion. If so, he would have known that he is OBLIGATED to stay in his hometown. Do you people realize that he doesn't owe the city of Cleveland a da** thing?

1 of the dumbest replies in the thread. just shows ur iq and how old you really are.

now dont prove me correct by respond to my post in a childish way

[gilalizard]

Oh I guess he should have called and asked you for your opinion. If so, he would have known that he is OBLIGATED to stay in his hometown. Do you people realize that he doesn't owe the city of Cleveland a da** thing?

Much of the "Witness" thing was about him being the city's champion.

Does he owe the city? Hell yes he does. Much of his media identity and his fortune was based upon it. He owes the city as much as it owes him. "LeBron James" would not be the figure he is without Cleveland and its history. A history he was supposedly going to overcome (and failed at doing so, that is he was NOT great enough).

Yeah that was a media narrative. Is it fair to hold him to it? Only if he willingly, enthusiastically participated in it.

Which he did.

He wasn't obligated to stay. But he definitely shat all over his most loyal fans with how he left.

[Lakers_Kobe_Fan]

No, but loyalty counts for something in this world. As does standing by your word. Back in the day, man stood by their word because that's all you had to opperate on. LeBron is still a child. He's lead by others. Both on the court and off the court. It's his comfort zone, because in actuality, he really isn't his own man. He isn't his own brand. He doesn't run the show. Others do it for him. He's not someone who can handle pressure particularly well. I'm sure you wouldn't know anything about that either.

thats what happens when you are raised by a single mother.

A Man teaches his Son to be a Man...Cant say the same about women who raises her kid all alone....

[Ne 1]

Do you people realize that he doesn't owe the city of Cleveland a da** thing?

Your right, but he did bail out and decided to seek the easy route to dynastic titlehood, so even if LeBron wins a ring, in a lot of people's minds it would be a fabricated championship and not a hard earned one.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Much of the "Witness" thing was about him being the city's champion.
Yea, Nike abandoned that out of necessity ... but in reality we already did "Witness"

His name was Jordan



Does he owe the city?
He definetely promised championships, and "wouldn't stop till he brought them there"

:facepalm

[Mr. Jabbar]

Your right, but he did bail out and decided to seek the easy route to dynastic titlehood, so even if LeBron wins a ring, in a lot of people's mind it would be a fabricated championship and not a hard earned one.

absolutely, if he wins it in miami it should be a different ring (wooden maybe??), the larry o'brien trophy must not be tainted...

[Ne 1]

Yea, Nike abandoned that out of necessity ... but in reality we already did "Witness"

His name was Jordan



He definetely promised championships, and "wouldn't stop till he brought them there"

:facepalm


"It's also important to me to make the team I'm on now the best. I don't want to go ring-chasing, I want to stay with the Cavs and build a champion." - LeBron in 2006

[Samurai Swoosh]

the larry o'brien trophy must not be tainted...
Via collusion, subversion, and the pussification / AAU-ification of the NBA. The "super friends" era. F U C K T H A T

[Mr. Jabbar]

[quote=Ne 1]"It's also important to me to make the team I'm on now the best. I don't want to go ring-chasing, I want to stay with the Cavs and build a champion." - LeBron in 2006

[Samurai Swoosh]

thats the chosen one....
The chosen one?

http://diggwhat.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Michael-Jordan-You-Have-Witnessed.1.jpg

[Mr. Jabbar]

Via collusion, subversion, and the pussification / AAU-ification of the NBA. The "super friends" era. F U C K T H A T

the leagues "purest" fans will take a huge blow if miami builds a dynasty with this, i can fathom a huge exodus of good ol' nba fans and the infestation of a brainless horde of "heat fan since: breakfast" kids/trolls...

[Ne 1]

absolutely, if he wins it in miami it should be a different ring (wooden maybe??), the larry o'brien trophy must not be tainted...

:oldlol: Yup, that's why I'm pulling for the Mavs. If there is any player that dosen't have a ring yet that deserves one I think it's Dirk. For sure he definitely deserves one over LeBron and his title would actually be hard earned, well deserved and he can say that he won with honour. If LeBron wins though not many people will respect their title and will think of it as fabricated.

[Samurai Swoosh]

:oldlol: Yup, that's why I'm pulling for the Mavs. If there is any player that dosen't have a ring yet that deserves one I think it's Dirk. For sure he definitely deserves one over LeBron and his title would actually be hard earned, well deserved and he can say that he won with honour. If LeBron wins though not many people will respect their title and will think of it as fabricated.
Good points.

[Ne 1]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm


thats the chosen one....

Funny how he has always called himself "King James", "The chosen one" and whatever other stupid nicknames before he ever won anything.

[Mr. Jabbar]

:oldlol: Yup, that's why I'm pulling for the Mavs. If there is any player that dosen't have a ring yet that deserves one I think it's Dirk. For sure he definitely deserves one over LeBron and his title would actually be hard earned, well deserved and he can say that he won with honour. If LeBron wins though not many people will respect their title and will think of it as fabricated.

people loves putting "*" on rings because of stacked teams, ref help etc, so a potential lebron ring should look like this: " **** "

1st asterisk represents Wade (carried by)

2nd one Bosh (carried by)

3rd one Chalmers (carried by)

4th one Stern (gifted by)

[monkeypox]

Shaq: You see the key to burning your bridges is wait till you're safely on the other side.

[niko]

I like when how LEbron leaves is mentioned, inevitably People say "we need to get over it". getting over it does not mean when the topic comes up you change your opinion on what happened. It doesn't mean saying "yeah, Lebron left in a classy way".

[Shepseskaf]

Actually, I can't think of anyone more qualified. He was completely straight-forward with Orlando prior to his leaving for LA.
Where did you come up with that lie? I was living in Orlando when the whole Shaq-to-LA went down. He ended up blaming his leaving the city on a newspaper poll run by the Orlando Sentinel which found that the majority of persons asked thought that Shaq wasn't worth the money that he was asking for.

The real truth was that he had undoubtedly been in contact with people from LA for a long time prior to signing there, and just used the newspaper poll as an excuse.

So, no, he was not "straight-forward" with the Magic.

I also notice that you didn't comment on on the other teams that he left.

[Shepseskaf]

Shooting the messenger doesn't make the message less true.
If the messenger is compromised himself, then maybe the messenger should shut his mouth.

[LBJ 23]

Funny how he has always called himself "King James", "The chosen one" and whatever other stupid nicknames before he ever won anything.


What has winning to do with nickname? :confusedshrug:

[knickscity]

Essentially true, but is Shaq the one who should be dispensing knowledge on the proper way to leave a team?
Shaq told Orlando he was leaving.

So yeah, he is the perfect person to shed light on this.

[Bigsmoke]

Shaq told Orlando he was leaving.

So yeah, he is the perfect person to shed light on this.

lol he still shitted on that organization.

The Magic just won 61 or 62 game whatever and they had an All NBA sidekick for him and what he did?

and he did the same with the Lakers and with the Heat.

[Shepseskaf]

Shaq told Orlando he was leaving.

So yeah, he is the perfect person to shed light on this.
Read the comment I just posted on this subject.

[knickscity]

lol he still shitted on that organization.

The Magic just won 61 or 62 game whatever and they had an All NBA sidekick for him and what he did?

and he did the same with the Lakers and with the Heat.
Orlando shitted on him as well then.

Even though it was more than just money, Orlando low balled him in a money offer first, only to find out that the Lakers offered more.

And being traded has no relevance whatsoever.

He didn't demand to leave those teams.

LeBron never said anything remote to indicate he was leaving Cleveland.

They are not at all the same.

[B4llin]

I've never been a cleveland fan aside from an admirer of lebrons skills, but it would have been alot better if lebron had worked to bring the big 3 to Cleveland, I mean he was/is the best player in the league, reigning 2 time MVP playing in his home town where he had promised to bring a ring, WTF does Wade owe to Miami, WTF does bosh owe to Miami or Toronto. Had the big 3 been formed in clevelad it would have been alot better for all sides. And I wish it had have happened, either way I hope all three win a ring, and bosh has a monster series of course, shutting everyone the *** up for forgetting the fact that he has been a dominant player since he started in the league. Abit off topic I know but I can't start a thread, I would also like to add the disgust I have for the fact that reaching the finals has no respect, I personally think that reaching the finals should be regarde extremely higher than it is, yeah you don't win a championship, bit there is not a whole lot of difference beetwen being there amd winning it, because a whole lot of effort goes into each feats/ end rant

[ballerz]

When shaq was retireing heard him say he told Danny Ainge early so they could find replacements for him which was the right thing to do. As its been said Lebron never told anyone that he was leaving

[kaiiu]

Without Cleveland and the backstory. Lebron would never have been "the chosen 1" or any of that other hype bullshit. His whole career would be different otherwise whether Stans admit it or not.

[sh0wtime]

And what about you then Shaq? How would you have done your Orlando Magic departure back in the days which brought you unnecessary hate aswell? What about LA also? How ironic.
Its easy to afterwards ponder about how you could have done it and not done it. Its not like Lebron didnt regret a single thing, im sure he knows now better than anybody how he could have done everything better, you or nobody in this world know how you could have made such a departure perfectly before seeing the result.

After seeing the result after any situation in life its then very easy to talk.

[ChandlerParsons]

And what about you then Shaq? How would you have done your Orlando Magic departure back in the days which brought you unnecessary hate aswell? What about LA also? How ironic.
Its easy to afterwards ponder about how you could have done it and not done it. Its not like Lebron didnt regret a single thing, im sure he knows now better than anybody how he could have done everything better, you or nobody in this world know how you could have made such a departure perfectly before seeing the result.

After seeing the result after any situation in life its then very easy to talk.
No, its because the way Lebron did it.."Decision"
Though thats still bs. If he left Cleveland to Miami by telling the front office " hey I'm not going to be on this team anymore, etc etc, " they will still be called the same thing now, everyone will still hate the Heat and Lebron, and it will be pretty much the same except for the words " The Decision."
So, if he left Cleveland, people will still hate him for not winning a ring in Cleveland.

[DDensity]

Shaq is great and I agree with what he's saying here but he's not really the shining example of how to conduct business.

This is the guy who was running up and down the court during a pre-season game shouting "Pay me MF'er!!!" to Jerry Buss.

[Pointguard]

Lebron has his priorities.

The Cavaliers have their priorities.

When priorities don't meet in the business world - expect separation. If you know of another bigger reality in the business world, please post it.


The Cavalier's had rights to Lebron. Lebron fullfilled his contract. The Cavaliers made earnings more than doubled because of the product Lebron was key in producing. Lebron only asked that they further the product by putting him in a situation where they were contenders. Other teams had made it their priority to amass talent and to put themselves in a winning situation. The Heat were committed to winning and shared his goals. Lebron's only obligation in his business world is to contstantly put himself in situation that are advantageous to what he is trying to accomplish. He is in a world where you only get a few chances to pick where you want to work. The window of his opportunity is small. He did it his way.

If he wastes this opportunity and stays with a team not committed to winning and he doesn't win, not one of you would say winning isn't the criteria we should judge greatness by. It's hypocritical to suggest that Lebron put a priority that every one of you don't uphold yourselves. You all would judge him harshly if he were not to win but now he's in a position to win and have fun. As a young man, the other choices aren't as good. Sure it went down pretty goofy but its not like if he told them earlier things would be different.

[kaiiu]

If he wastes this opportunity and stays with a team not committed to winning and he doesn't win,
Now I KNOW u just talkin out of your ass. Shut up *******

[lpublic_enemyl]

thats what happens when you are raised by a single mother.

A Man teaches his Son to be a Man...Cant say the same about women who raises her kid all alone....
Realest shit anyone has ever wrote

[Pointguard]

Now I KNOW u just talkin out of your ass. Shut up *******

:lol
You too stupid to back up anything you write. If you are a man stand behind your postion. Otherwise you mean nothing.

[chips93]

If he wastes this opportunity and stays with a team not committed to winning and he doesn't win, not one of you would say winning isn't the criteria we should judge greatness by. It's hypocritical to suggest that Lebron put a priority that every one of you don't uphold yourselves. You all would judge him harshly if he were not to win but now he's in a position to win and have fun. As a young man, the other choices aren't as good. Sure it went down pretty goofy but its not like if he told them earlier things would be different.

while i agree he probably wouldnt have won in cleveland, at least he had a better opportunity in miami, you're retarded if you think cleveland isnt committed to winning

gilbert just essentially paid the difference between mo and baron's contracts (about 14 million) justt for what was to be the 8th pick (turned out to be 1st). so gilbert was very committed to winning

we are trying to trade for rip's contract so we can moe from the 4th pick to the 2nd pick, so gilbert is willing to pay about 10 million to move up two spots in a weak draft.

during lebron's stay he took on ben wallace, shaq, jamison, mo, wally, all big contracts, to give us a better chance. in lebron's last year the cavs had one of the highest payrolls in the entire league.

dan gilbert has never lacked financial commitment to winning, saying he has just shows your lack of understanding.

[Edit: although i agree with all of your post, apart from the cavs not being committed to winning]

[kentatm]

Shaq: You see the key to burning your bridges is wait till you're safely on the other side.


:lol :applause:

[Pointguard]

while i agree he probably wouldnt have won in cleveland, at least he had a better opportunity in miami, you're retarded if you think cleveland isnt committed to winning

My bad on that. I wasn't clear enough. Miami was committed at the highest level: Gut out your whole situation, for the best possible situation. Riley was going to commit to the best quality and only that. I can't really speak to Gilbert's commitment to winning. I will only say it wasn't thoroughly thought out and he had time to bring in top quality guys and it didn't happen.

[AlphaWolf24]

Lebron has his priorities.

The Cavaliers have their priorities.

When priorities don't meet in the business world - expect separation. If you know of another bigger reality in the business world, please post it.


The Cavalier's had rights to Lebron. Lebron fullfilled his contract. The Cavaliers made earnings more than doubled because of the product Lebron was key in producing. Lebron only asked that they further the product by putting him in a situation where they were contenders. Other teams had made it their priority to amass talent and to put themselves in a winning situation. The Heat were committed to winning and shared his goals. Lebron's only obligation in his business world is to contstantly put himself in situation that are advantageous to what he is trying to accomplish. He is in a world where you only get a few chances to pick where you want to work. The window of his opportunity is small. He did it his way.

If he wastes this opportunity and stays with a team not committed to winning and he doesn't win, not one of you would say winning isn't the criteria we should judge greatness by. It's hypocritical to suggest that Lebron put a priority that every one of you don't uphold yourselves. You all would judge him harshly if he were not to win but now he's in a position to win and have fun. As a young man, the other choices aren't as good. Sure it went down pretty goofy but its not like if he told them earlier things would be different.


But they were committed to winning.....back 2 back 60+ win seasons proves it.


and they were in a position to win in Cleveland and "have fun"....He was in the NBA Finals in 2007, followed by 2 seasons of over 60 wins and favorites to win it in 2009 and 2010....

How can you honestly say they were not "committed to winning" after NBA Finals with 2 60 win seasons ina 4 year year span????...they were really close to achieving greatness.

Did Lebron "owe Cleveland/Ohio"...technically no.....all I can view by is my personnel experience ,

(I was born in Nor Cal and Lived in So Cal) ..The first time I went to Ohio for an extended amount of time was in the mid 90's...(I was stationed in the military nearby, on Holidays and long weekends I would travel with friends to Ohio since I couldn't get back to Cali)...I quickly learned about Archie Griffin and how Maze and Blue is the Devil work...pictures of Eddie George hung on walls instead of kids.


When I would go to the Cleveland Flats Pictures and Statues of Jack Lambert hailed like Greek Gods.....Women talked about Bernie Cosar like he was George Clooney (I know)....Jim Jackson was actually better then MJ according to a couple of older (70 year olds) I met in a store.

I Loved Ohio because they were more passionate about their "own" then anywhere I have been, and as a big sports fan myself , I loved it...Sports is Huge (I know sports is popular everywhere) But in Ohio If you ever played or were from Ohio they Loved you like you were one of their own sons.....


Fast Forward 7 years....(2003) by now I have ties to Ohio and visit 1 -2 times a year...Lebron is everywhere...and everyone Loves him....Going to the Cleveland zoo I see about 7 kids no older then 2 years old with #23 jerseys, Downtown Cleveland has Marque's with Lebron, I can't help but root for him....

He was everything that Ohio/Cleveland represented........and Knowing how much Ohio loves there own I was Happy for them and him....It just felt Right.

It was unique this time, Lebron was actually one their own playing for an Ohio team....Fairytale or Movie like ...I thought.


and so when he left ...I could only Imagine how Native Buckeye's thought.....I found myself angered and Disappointed....

I knew how much it hurt the fans...

I knew LBJ was young and didn't fully understand how it worked,

I knew about the pictures on the wall's, the extra YSmall Jerseys , the size 1 shoes , the story's


I knew only in the Movies.....

[Magic Vinsanity]

Shaq pulled the same shit in Orlando, saying he was going to stay so they didnt trade him. Saying Orlando was his first choice, then he shows up on TV at the f*cking Olympics with Jerry West holding a Lakers jersey!

Dude is a hypocrite.

[AlphaWolf24]

Shaq pulled the same shit in Orlando, saying he was going to stay so they didnt trade him. Saying Orlando was his first choice, then he shows up on TV at the f*cking Olympics with Jerry West holding a Lakers jersey!

Dude is a hypocrite.

Orlando fans put it on paper that Shaq wasn't worth the Money....and Majority said they thought Penny was more Valuable...



Cleveland/the whole state of Ohio were crying and Begging Lebron to stay home.....

were not even speaking the same language.....

[chips93]

My bad on that. I wasn't clear enough. Miami was committed at the highest level: Gut out your whole situation, for the best possible situation. Riley was going to commit to the best quality and only that. I can't really speak to Gilbert's commitment to winning. I will only say it wasn't thoroughly thought out and he had time to bring in top quality guys and it didn't happen.


id agree, they just added piece after piece, with little thought for how the pieces would mesh, or the future. lebron didnt have on single quality young player to develop alongside off, noah to rose, westbrook to durant, gordon to griffin.

[AlphaWolf24]

id agree, they just added piece after piece, with little thought for how the pieces would mesh, or the future. lebron didnt have on single quality young player to develop alongside off, noah to rose, westbrook to durant, gordon to griffin.


Noah is basically Verajoa on Red Bull......JJ Hickson says HI = Deng V 2.0

[Pointguard]

But they were committed to winning.....back 2 back 60+ win seasons proves it.


and they were in a position to win in Cleveland and "have fun"....He was in the NBA Finals in 2007, followed by 2 seasons of over 60 wins and favorites to win it in 2009 and 2010....

How can you honestly say they were not "committed to winning" after NBA Finals with 2 60 win seasons ina 4 year year span????...they were really close to achieving greatness.

Did Lebron "owe Cleveland/Ohio"...technically no.....all I can view by is my personnel experience ,

(I was born in Nor Cal and Lived in So Cal) ..The first time I went to Ohio for an extended amount of time was in the mid 90's...(I was stationed in the military nearby, on Holidays and long weekends I would travel with friends to Ohio since I couldn't get back to Cali)...I quickly learned about Archie Griffin and how Maze and Blue is the Devil work...pictures of Eddie George hung on walls instead of kids.


When I would go to the Cleveland Flats Pictures and Statues of Jack Lambert hailed like Greek Gods.....Women talked about Bernie Cosar like he was George Clooney (I know)....Jim Jackson was actually better then MJ according to a couple of older (70 year olds) I met in a store.

I Loved Ohio because they were more passionate about their "own" then anywhere I have been, and as a big sports fan myself , I loved it...Sports is Huge (I know sports is popular everywhere) But in Ohio If you ever played or were from Ohio they Loved you like you were one of their own sons.....


Fast Forward 7 years....(2003) by now I have ties to Ohio and visit 1 -2 times a year...Lebron is everywhere...and everyone Loves him....Going to the Cleveland zoo I see about 7 kids no older then 2 years old with #23 jerseys, Downtown Cleveland has Marque's with Lebron, I can't help but root for him....

He was everything that Ohio/Cleveland represented........and Knowing how much Ohio loves there own I was Happy for them and him....It just felt Right.

It was unique this time, Lebron was actually one their own playing for an Ohio team....Fairytale or Movie like ...I thought.


and so when he left ...I could only Imagine how Native Buckeye's thought.....I found myself angered and Disappointed....

I knew how much it hurt the fans...

I knew LBJ was young and didn't fully understand how it worked, I knew about the pictures on the wall's, the extra YSmall Jerseys , the size 1 shoes , the story's


I knew only in the Movies.....

Well said. When you are young you don't know th value of people or things. You are romanced only by the thing you want the most at that time. You are ready for what looks best at the moment. Then years later you look back and see things for what they are worth.

[LBJWADE]

id agree, they just added piece after piece, with little thought for how the pieces would mesh, or the future. lebron didnt have on single quality young player to develop alongside off, noah to rose, westbrook to durant, gordon to griffin.

But why isnt the best player in the league and 2-time MVP getting players to come play with him? Jordan would have never left the Bulls to go play with Pippen. Kobe would have never left the Lakers to go to Memphis and play with Gasol.

[JonnyBigBoss]

Lebron is lame. I'll never like him. I have standards.

[Godzuki]

I'd love to know what the Cav's did to find out if Lebron was going to stay, and what Lebron said back to them leading up to it. I'm guessing Lebron was acting like he was going to stay to them if they got that pissed.

[Orlando Magic]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fak_wv3uoM

[Pointguard]

I'd love to know what the Cav's did to find out if Lebron was going to stay, and what Lebron said back to them leading up to it. I'm guessing Lebron was acting like he was going to stay to them if they got that pissed.
From a business standpoint, if you are in a situation where a contract is up, you prepare for the worst. If you have the best player you have to realize the whole league wants him and if there is a better situation in the universe for the best, the situation should be looked at as 30/70 at best. The Cavs weren't as blind sided as its all made out to be.

[Pointguard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fak_wv3uoM
Now he says its money but back then he said it was tradition of the Lakers. Later in the interview he said he told his agent to get him the best deal possible. In the end it was only the difference of 1 mill. So basically he just walked out on the Magic. At least Lebron did it to win and Clevelend got some value in return.

What Shaq did was worse.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Now he says its money but back then he said it was tradition of the Lakers. Later in the interview he said he told his agent to get him the best deal possible. In the end it was only the difference of 1 mill. So basically he just walked out on the Magic. At least Lebron did it to win and Clevelend got some value in return.

What Shaq did was worse.Yes Shaq changing his team, and telling that team he's leaving, is worse than Lebron have a ****ing 1 hour tv special about his "decision". Clearly shaq is more of a drama queen. It doesn't matter if he did it for money, at least he was honest about it, Lebron is so fake "ugh this is really tough" like stfu.

Hell he even said his decision was a little selfish in one of his interviews since he announced retirement, Shaq is honest he's straight up, Lebron is full of shit.

[Ne 1]

But they were committed to winning.....back 2 back 60+ win seasons proves it.


and they were in a position to win in Cleveland and "have fun"....He was in the NBA Finals in 2007, followed by 2 seasons of over 60 wins and favorites to win it in 2009 and 2010....

How can you honestly say they were not "committed to winning" after NBA Finals with 2 60 win seasons ina 4 year year span????...they were really close to achieving greatness.

Did Lebron "owe Cleveland/Ohio"...technically no.....all I can view by is my personnel experience ,

(I was born in Nor Cal and Lived in So Cal) ..The first time I went to Ohio for an extended amount of time was in the mid 90's...(I was stationed in the military nearby, on Holidays and long weekends I would travel with friends to Ohio since I couldn't get back to Cali)...I quickly learned about Archie Griffin and how Maze and Blue is the Devil work...pictures of Eddie George hung on walls instead of kids.


When I would go to the Cleveland Flats Pictures and Statues of Jack Lambert hailed like Greek Gods.....Women talked about Bernie Cosar like he was George Clooney (I know)....Jim Jackson was actually better then MJ according to a couple of older (70 year olds) I met in a store.

I Loved Ohio because they were more passionate about their "own" then anywhere I have been, and as a big sports fan myself , I loved it...Sports is Huge (I know sports is popular everywhere) But in Ohio If you ever played or were from Ohio they Loved you like you were one of their own sons.....


Fast Forward 7 years....(2003) by now I have ties to Ohio and visit 1 -2 times a year...Lebron is everywhere...and everyone Loves him....Going to the Cleveland zoo I see about 7 kids no older then 2 years old with #23 jerseys, Downtown Cleveland has Marque's with Lebron, I can't help but root for him....

He was everything that Ohio/Cleveland represented........and Knowing how much Ohio loves there own I was Happy for them and him....It just felt Right.

It was unique this time, Lebron was actually one their own playing for an Ohio team....Fairytale or Movie like ...I thought.


and so when he left ...I could only Imagine how Native Buckeye's thought.....I found myself angered and Disappointed....

I knew how much it hurt the fans...

I knew LBJ was young and didn't fully understand how it worked,

I knew about the pictures on the wall's, the extra YSmall Jerseys , the size 1 shoes , the story's


I knew only in the Movies.....

:applause:

They got him a good enough cast and all the right pieces to jump from 46 wins to 66 wins in one year and had they played anyone but Orlando they would've gone to the Finals that year. It's like when the Bulls could beat anyone but the Pistons in the late 80s/early 90s. When Detroit declined they finally went to the Finals. It was only a matter of time for them to start winning and funny thing about that is LeBron was 25 when he left, Jordan was 27 when he got his first ring. They got him Shaq to neutralize Dwight so that they didn't have to double him anymore. If they played Orlando then we'd see how it worked out. They were better than Boston and it was a matter of LeBron's horrendous play and Mike Brown being outcoached by Doc Rivers. Brown's subs made no sense. Why they didn't use youth to their advantage, I don't know.

[AlphaWolf24]

Now he says its money but back then he said it was tradition of the Lakers. Later in the interview he said he told his agent to get him the best deal possible. In the end it was only the difference of 1 mill. So basically he just walked out on the Magic. At least Lebron did it to win and Clevelend got some value in return.

What Shaq did was worse.


again....back 2 back 60 win seasons....favorites to win it all....Finals in 07'

they were winning.....and were really close to something Greater then anything he will ever do in Miami.....Win it all for the people who loved him most.


Shaq leaving Orlando for more money after the fans already polled and put it in the newspaper that they didn't think he was worth the money and would rather have Penny anyways is nowhere near what fans in Ohio thought of Lebron.

[Ne 1]

Yes Shaq changing his team, and telling that team he's leaving, is worse than Lebron have a ****ing 1 hour tv special about his "decision". Clearly shaq is more of a drama queen. It doesn't matter if he did it for money, at least he was honest about it, Lebron is so fake "ugh this is really tough" like stfu.

Hell he even said his decision was a little selfish in one of his interviews since he announced retirement, Shaq is honest he's straight up, Lebron is full of shit.

Yup and Shaq left a better team to start over in LA.

Has any other superstar in their prime willingly left a team as talented as the Magic to go to a significantly less talented team and start over?

[AlphaWolf24]

:applause:

They got him a good enough cast and all the right pieces to jump from 46 wins to 66 wins in one year and had they played anyone but Orlando they would've gone to the Finals that year. It's like when the Bulls could beat anyone but the Pistons in the late 80s/early 90s. When Detroit declined they finally went to the Finals. It was only a matter of time for them to start winning and funny thing about that is LeBron was 25 when he left, Jordan was 27 when he got his first ring. They got him Shaq to neutralize Dwight so that they didn't have to double him anymore. If they played Orlando then we'd see how it worked out. They were better than Boston and it was a matter of LeBron's horrendous play and Mike Brown being outcoached by Doc Rivers. Brown's subs made no sense. Why they didn't use youth to their advantage, I don't know.


Very similiar to the Bull's in the Late 80's..almost to a tee...except for one thing....The Cav's actually had far more promise....they made it to the Finals , to go along with playing great with a 63 win season and LBJ was only 23 - 24 years old.....

I don't know...maybe it's because I spent time in Akron/ Cleveland and Ohio....I just think it's kind of sad how everything played out.

[Ne 1]

again....back 2 back 60 win seasons....favorites to win it all....Finals in 07'

they were winning.....and were really close to something Greater then anything he will ever do in Miami.....Win it all for the people who loved him most.


Shaq leaving Orlando for more money after the fans already polled and put it in the newspaper that they didn't think he was worth the money and would rather have Penny anyways is nowhere near what fans in Ohio thought of Lebron.


And Shaq brought the Lakers back to the glory after they were pretty irrelevant for almost a decade. He didn't collude with another top 3 and top 10 player in the league. Shaq wasn't scared of being the man. Shaq also didn't placate himself as some sort of hometown hero to build up his fanbase like LeBron did with Ohio and say that he wouldn't leave Orlando until he won them a championship like LeBron did with the Cavs.

[cavsfanatic]

Akron and Cleveland same thing is what I always say. He act like Cleveland hours away n It's 30 minutes. Not all Cavs fans from Cleveland

[Samurai Swoosh]

Akron and Cleveland same thing is what I always say. He act like Cleveland hours away n It's 30 minutes. Not all Cavs fans from Cleveland
He did that as a means to make his leaving more excusable. It's weak. Clearly people from the surrounding 'burbs and cities to Cleveland root for the Cleveland sport teams.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

From a business standpoint, if you are in a situation where a contract is up, you prepare for the worst. If you have the best player you have to realize the whole league wants him and if there is a better situation in the universe for the best, the situation should be looked at as 30/70 at best. The Cavs weren't as blind sided as its all made out to be.

actually, that is not true. A team makes certain moves based upon a set of conditions (whether or not Lebron is staying). If they don't know what the condition will be, then their hands are tied.
i.e. you don't want to rebuild if Lebron is staying...you want seasoned vets around him. If he bails, then you want to rebuild. They didn't know what to do until Lebron told them, one way or the other.

[Ne 1]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Fak_wv3uoM

The difference was that Shaq just loved the city of Los Angeles and the Lakers franchise history and rich tradition. With Shaq it wasn't about winning by any means necessary like LeBron. Shaq wanted to be the man. His ego was still known. He just wanted to dominate in a Lakers uniform and bring them back to glory (and of course make terrible movies :lol). The Lakers hadn't had any success in a long time when he arrived and had no superstars or promising players to be successful.

LeBron left a team where he acted like he was some hometown hero in order to build his fan base up their only to embarrass them on national tv to go play with another top 3 and top 10 player in the league.

[sixer6ad]

Lebron has his priorities.

The Cavaliers have their priorities.

When priorities don't meet in the business world - expect separation. If you know of another bigger reality in the business world, please post it.


The Cavalier's had rights to Lebron. Lebron fullfilled his contract. The Cavaliers made earnings more than doubled because of the product Lebron was key in producing. Lebron only asked that they further the product by putting him in a situation where they were contenders. Other teams had made it their priority to amass talent and to put themselves in a winning situation. The Heat were committed to winning and shared his goals. Lebron's only obligation in his business world is to contstantly put himself in situation that are advantageous to what he is trying to accomplish. He is in a world where you only get a few chances to pick where you want to work. The window of his opportunity is small. He did it his way.

If he wastes this opportunity and stays with a team not committed to winning and he doesn't win, not one of you would say winning isn't the criteria we should judge greatness by. It's hypocritical to suggest that Lebron put a priority that every one of you don't uphold yourselves. You all would judge him harshly if he were not to win but now he's in a position to win and have fun. As a young man, the other choices aren't as good. Sure it went down pretty goofy but its not like if he told them earlier things would be different.

You are right when it comes to titles - 0 - and that ultimately is the judge. But not committed to winning? Are you freaking serious? NBA Finals? Eastern Conference Finals? Home court advantage and best record in the league back to back years? There has to be a part of everyone who is in this argument who thought in some way that the Cavs were definitely committed to winning. That wasn't the issue. What became the issue was the coddling that was occurring. What became the issue was the refusal to commit to a franchise who built themselves around him. THEY GAVE HIM EVERYTHING and he kept signing small deals. It's easy: "Free agents - come join me. We have amazing home games in downtown Cleveland. We have - and it's not even close - the best practice facilities in the NBA. In fact, they put it close to Akron where I live so that I don't have to drive that far. "I'm not going anywhere until I win a title here, so if you want to help me do that for this championship starved city, come join me."

Instead, it was ALWAYS about "will he stay...where will he play..." It was that way and he loved it.

Minnesota, Charlotte, Indiana, Sacramento, etc. are some franchises not committed to winning. LeBron had the owner and the fans who were committed to winning. As it's been said, it's not that he left, it's the way he left. Come over to the correct side and just realize it.

[ganja0710]

Really?

This Pointguard kid talking like he has points/facts that back up LeBrons departure. NOTHING, absolutely nothing can excuse him from doing what he did. He's a child, and the 'single mother raising him' point probably has something to do with that.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Shaq's got a point.

[jlip]

Why is this still news?

[Ne 1]

He did that as a means to make his leaving more excusable. It's weak. Clearly people from the surrounding 'burbs and cities to Cleveland root for the Cleveland sport teams.

And the thing is that the whole time he portrayed himself as the hometown hero of Cleveland and then after he leaves he makes up some lame story about when he was growing up that he and everyone from Akron were "jealous" of Cleveland. :rolleyes:

[Pointguard]

Yes Shaq changing his team, and telling that team he's leaving, is worse than Lebron have a ****ing 1 hour tv special about his "decision". Clearly shaq is more of a drama queen. It doesn't matter if he did it for money, at least he was honest about it, Lebron is so fake "ugh this is really tough" like stfu.

Hell he even said his decision was a little selfish in one of his interviews since he announced retirement, Shaq is honest he's straight up, Lebron is full of shit.
Shaq never intended to stay under any circumstance. He had just come from the finals and was had quality around him. If he was so straight up he should have done like Kobe and said trade my draft rights. They had no chance with Shaq whatsoever. At least Lebron stays in Clevelend if they get him a quality guy in the playoffs.

[Samurai Swoosh]

And the thing is that the whole time he portrayed himself as the hometown hero of Cleveland and then after he leaves he makes up some lame story about when he was growing up that he and everyone from Akron were "jealous" of Cleveland. :rolleyes:
Yea, exacly. C'mon, the guy is sackless. Anyone with an ounce of credibility can see right through him.

[Pointguard]

again....back 2 back 60 win seasons....favorites to win it all....Finals in 07'

they were winning.....and were really close to something Greater then anything he will ever do in Miami.....Win it all for the people who loved him most.

I don't disagree with you. He still didn't have a playoff performer that could help him out much. Boston's defense was successful at making him ineffective.

[ballup]

Shaq points out something any Cleveland fan and any smart NBA fan already knew.

[AlphaWolf24]

I don't disagree with you. He still didn't have a playoff performer that could help him out much. Boston's defense was successful at making him ineffective.


So he made it to the NBA Finals and had back 2 back 60+ wins because he had "no help?"....got it....

if only he could clone himself.....if Miami Loses this year and the year after does he also need a "playoff performer"?????

[Samurai Swoosh]

I don't disagree with you. He still didn't have a playoff performer that could help him out much. Boston's defense was successful at making him ineffective.
Then you campaign with the front office. Say you want to stay, but I want to win rings, this is what we're missing, work with me on this. Say you need better pieces. Communicate with them. LeBron didn't do that ... THATS HOW BUSINESS GETS DONE. That's how both parties can come out happy.

Kobe threatened a trade after the end of the 2007 season. He let his displeasures be known, to get managment off their ass and do something.

It was bargining chip. Business men know how to do these things.

LeBron didn't even do this. He d1ck teased the front office. Acting as if he might stay there, while not saying ANYTHING to them concretely AT ALL. That's a total slap in the face to your organization of the past 7 years.

And then at the last minute, saying he's going to Miami.

If he really cared, he would have asked for a sign and trade. Something to where it wouldn't have come across so spineless and shady.

[Pointguard]

actually, that is not true. A team makes certain moves based upon a set of conditions (whether or not Lebron is staying). If they don't know what the condition will be, then their hands are tied.
i.e. you don't want to rebuild if Lebron is staying...you want seasoned vets around him. If he bails, then you want to rebuild. They didn't know what to do until Lebron told them, one way or the other.

If the Cavs were into rebuilding then why didn't they do it when they prize of the league. That's what cause the whole problem from the beginning. Plan B should be easy for a team that doesn't have a Plan A.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

So he made it to the NBA Finals and had back 2 back 60+ wins because he had "no help?"....got it....

if only he could clone himself.....if Miami Loses this year and the year after does he also need a "playoff performer"?????

Remember LeBron is a one man team he won every game in Cleveland by himself, made every shot, defended every player and even served everyone drinks/towels

[AlphaWolf24]

Remember LeBron is a one man team he won every game in Cleveland by himself, made every shot, defended every player and even served everyone drinks/towels


Oh yeaaaahhh...now I remember.......I also forgot how when the playoff's start no one play's basketball anymore.....it's a whole different game with complex formula's and special rules with hidden in and outs....that's why he needed that elusive "Playoff Performer"...because those other scrubs that dominated and won 63 games didn't know how to play this new unfamiliar game ..

I'm surprised they even knew what a Ball and Hoop was when Lebron passed to them:lol :lol :lol :lol :facepalm

[Pointguard]

Really?

This Pointguard kid talking like he has points/facts that back up LeBrons departure. NOTHING, absolutely nothing can excuse him from doing what he did. He's a child, and the 'single mother raising him' point probably has something to do with that.

Trust me on this young one. If you you have an opportunity to enjoy doing what you do in life, have fun, build a legacy off of it, be among friends, be close to your goals, and to do it on your terms - do it - Take that path. All that other nonsense like the stuff you talking... leads to a lot of second guessing, what if's, and people thinkig they can make your mind up for you.

[Samurai Swoosh]

people thinkig they can make your mind up for you.
People are making up LeBron's mind for him.

One of the greatest designers in the history of sneakers @ Nike had to stop working with him because of it.

:oldlol:

[AlphaWolf24]

Trust me on this young one. If you you have an opportunity to enjoy doing what you do in life, have fun, build a legacy off of it, be among friends, be close to your goals, and to do it on your terms - do it - Take that path. All that other nonsense like the stuff you talking... leads to a lot of second guessing, what if's, and people thinkig they can make your mind up for you.

Yes I totally agree....most people have to "find yourself" when you are "becoming a man" I guess....the thing about the way LBJ acted was it was very selfish....

I understand the whole "do it my way"....

But maybe at somepoint you have to draw the line....bumbling through life for the sole purpose to satisfy one's self is IMO one of the biggest mistakes a "man" can make and one of the ugliest part's of society.

Sacrifice is a big part of growing up.....

[Pointguard]

Oh yeaaaahhh...now I remember.......I also forgot how when the playoff's start no one play's basketball anymore.....it's a whole different game with complex formula's and special rules with hidden in and outs....that's why he needed that elusive "Playoff Performer"...because those other scrubs that dominated and won 63 games didn't know how to play this new unfamiliar game ..

I'm surprised they even knew what a Ball and Hoop was when Lebron passed to them:lol :lol :lol :lol :facepalm

Seriously, you think the playoff game and the regular season game are the same? Did any of the successful playoff teams go after a Cav's teammate of Lebron? Who would you recommend would help a playoff team in the first place? Use your talented vets for exchange of young talent is common practice of rebuilding teams, yet not one of those great "regular season performers" even got news of being a worthy trading piece. Instead they were producing some great loosing feat the league never seen before. Playoffs is a whole different ball game buddy.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Seriously, you think the playoff game and the regular season game are the same? Did any of the successful playoff teams go after a Cav's teammate of Lebron? Who would you recommend would help a playoff team in the first place? Use your talented vets for exchange of young talent is common practice of rebuilding teams, yet not one of those great "regular season performers" even got news of being a worthy trading piece. Instead they were producing some great loosing feat the league never seen before. Playoffs is a whole different ball game buddy.

Celtics got Shaq

[gmoney9]

why is the decision still being talked about :facepalm

[LBJWADE]

And the thing is that the whole time he portrayed himself as the hometown hero of Cleveland and then after he leaves he makes up some lame story about when he was growing up that he and everyone from Akron were "jealous" of Cleveland. :rolleyes:

Exactly. Why not just say that's how you felt when you were playing for them. Lebron would not have been the first player to have dislike the team he played for. Look at Pierce he said straight up that he hated the Celtics growing up.

[LBJWADE]

Trust me on this young one. If you you have an opportunity to enjoy doing what you do in life, have fun, build a legacy off of it, be among friends, be close to your goals, and to do it on your terms - do it - Take that path. All that other nonsense like the stuff you talking... leads to a lot of second guessing, what if's, and people thinkig they can make your mind up for you.

And thats fine if he did in fact want to do those things. BUT he should have handled the situation like a man and told the Cavs to their face that he was not interested in coming back. He shouldnt have met with teams he had no interest in joining (Clippers, Nets, Bulls) and should have handled the deal with Miami behind closed doors like men do business....

[Pointguard]

Then you campaign with the front office. Say you want to stay, but I want to win rings, this is what we're missing, work with me on this. Say you need better pieces. Communicate with them. LeBron didn't do that ... THATS HOW BUSINESS GETS DONE. That's how both parties can come out happy.

Kobe threatened a trade after the end of the 2007 season. He let his displeasures be known, to get managment off their ass and do something.

It was bargining chip. Business men know how to do these things.

Kobe was a very seasoned vet when he pulled that off. And it definitely could have backfired on a younger player. Lebron isn't a seasonsed businessman. He left winning up to the front office (at least there people were thought to be on the same page with him). He made a life choice based on goals, fun, livelyhood, legacy, career and friendship. His business moves were based on that. I recommend that for all people if life affords you that at 25 years of age. And people are going to hate you just because you can make this choice so do it and don't look over your shoulders.


LeBron didn't even do this. He d1ck teased the front office. Acting as if he might stay there, while not saying ANYTHING to them concretely AT ALL. That's a total slap in the face to your organization of the past 7 years.

And then at the last minute, saying he's going to Miami.

If he really cared, he would have asked for a sign and trade. Something to where it wouldn't have come across so spineless and shady.
It never dawned on you that once Lebron said he was going to have a show that it wasn't going to be Clevend? What good would the show be if he was staying? What, Plan B operations don't realize they are play B operations anymore?


That's a total slap in the face to your organization of the past 7 years.

Players get traded all the time. The contract makes a total joke of your point. The player is for hire, trade or sale. Loyalty is a business illusion. Lebron made so much money for the organization that it would have been crazy for him to get traded.

[Pointguard]

Celtics got Shaq
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sEknPZb2uZU

ok if you call that a player.

[Pointguard]

And thats fine if he did in fact want to do those things. BUT he should have handled the situation like a man and told the Cavs to their face that he was not interested in coming back. He shouldnt have met with teams he had no interest in joining (Clippers, Nets, Bulls) and should have handled the deal with Miami behind closed doors like men do business....

LOL

Lebron isn't a good business man, he did the whole thing kind of boneheaded. He lacks in that regard. Yall are right about that. But at least he sticks to his priorities tho.

[AlphaWolf24]

Seriously, you think the playoff game and the regular season game are the same? Did any of the successful playoff teams go after a Cav's teammate of Lebron? Who would you recommend would help a playoff team in the first place? Use your talented vets for exchange of young talent is common practice of rebuilding teams, yet not one of those great "regular season performers" even got news of being a worthy trading piece. Instead they were producing some great loosing feat the league never seen before. Playoffs is a whole different ball game buddy.



OH...you using basketball math?...ok.....


Zydrunas Ilgauskas 4 years prior to LBJ averaged nearly 17PPG and 8Reb in the "playoff's"...surely LBJ could make a 17 and 8 Big man in the playoff's a "Playoff performer"

Larry Hughes averaged 20PPG 7REB and 4 AST in the "Playoff's"..is he a "playoff performer?"..

Ben Wallace averaged nearly a Double Double his whole "playoff performing" career and was the Leader of the 04 Pistons....until he went to Cleveland just a few years later..surely LBJ would make life easier for him right?....

Antwan Jamison averaged 17PPG and 12 REB in the "playoff's" in 08'...surely LBJ would make a him a "playoff performer"...



2010 Cavs top 3 "playoff perfomers" after LBJ

Antwan Jamison - 15PPG 7.4 REB
Mo Williams - 14PPG 3REB 5AST
Shaq - 12PPG 6REB


2009 Lakers top 3 "playoff performers" after Kobe

Gasol - 18PPG 11REB
Lamar - 12PPG 9REB
Ariza - 11PPG 4REB

2006 Heat top 3 "playoff performers" after Wade

Shaq - 18PPG 10 REB
Antione- 13PPG 6REB
J Dub - 9PPG 4AST

2003 Spurs top 3 "playoff performers" outside of Duncan

Parker - 15PPG 4AST
Capt.Jack - 13PPG 4REB 3AST
Manu - 9PPG 4REB

this imaginary "Playoff performer" that has been so elusive is Marginal at best....Pro players are great....what seperates winners and Losers is marginal

yes the Playoff's are Different.....bieng it's more MENTAL aspect over pure Talent....Lebron has played on plenty of Great teams with Great Players capable of winning it all....

[Pointguard]

OH...you using basketball math?...ok.....


Zydrunas Ilgauskas 4 years prior to LBJ averaged nearly 17PPG and 8Reb in the "playoff's"...surely LBJ could make a 17 and 8 Big man in the playoff's a "Playoff performer"

Larry Hughes averaged 20PPG 7REB and 4 AST in the "Playoff's"..is he a "playoff performer?"..

Ben Wallace averaged nearly a Double Double his whole "playoff performing" career and was the Leader of the 04 Pistons....until he went to Cleveland just a few years later..surely LBJ would make life easier for him right?....

Antwan Jamison averaged 17PPG and 12 REB in the "playoff's" in 08'...surely LBJ would make a him a "playoff performer"...

I am shocked that you bothered to post that. Post their stats the year before they got to Clevelend. And then horrify yourself with them the year after Lebron. Larry Hughes simply could never play on structured teams. And who on that list and who on that list is going to win a game for you.

2010 Cavs top 3 "playoff perfomers" after LBJ

Antwan Jamison - 15PPG 7.4 REB
Mo Williams - 14PPG 3REB 5AST
Shaq - 12PPG 6REB


2009 Lakers top 3 "playoff performers" after Kobe

Gasol - 18PPG 11REB
Lamar - 12PPG 9REB
Ariza - 11PPG 4REB

If you posted their 4th quarter performances it wouldn't be close. Pressure weeds out the guys that are border line. What playoff teams wants those guys? Be honest. Lamar and Ariza won playoff games in the finals. Biiiig difference. Keep in mind this is seven years into the buiding process and the best they could do is two retiring players and Mo. Who would bank their future on that. In fact you prove my point.



2003 Spurs top 3 "playoff performers" outside of Duncan

Parker - 15PPG 4AST
Capt.Jack - 13PPG 4REB 3AST
Manu - 9PPG 4REB

this imaginary "Playoff performer" that has been so elusive is Marginal at best....Pro players are great....what seperates winners and Losers is marginal

yes the Playoff's are Different.....bieng it's more MENTAL aspect over pure Talent....Lebron has played on plenty of Great teams with Great Players capable of winning it all....
You are comparing two Shaq who is a bit of a liability at the end of games for several reasons at this stage. Jamison who hated to dribble for 12 years and isn't the same player he once was and Mo (not ready for the big show) Willliams to three guys that made a career of big time shots. One of which won finals MVP and the other who definitely could have won one also. The other, Capt. Jack, who carried teams and won playoff games himself. All of which showed early signs of this in '03.

[AlphaWolf24]

Pointguard]I am shocked that you bothered to post that. Post their stats the year before they got to Clevelend. And then horrify yourself with them the year after Lebron. Larry Hughes simply could never play on structured teams. And who on that list and who on that list is going to win a game for you.

You based your whole arguement on the "playoff's" bieng so much different then the regular season that Lebron needed someone who knew how to play in the vastly different setting of the "playoff's"...But when I showed you he did have teamates capable of playing in the vastly different strange setting...now you need to know who can "win a game for you?"...

ok....Ben Wallace can win a game "for you"....Shaq can win a game "for you"...Mo Williams can win a game "for you"...Big Z can "win a game for you"

I really don't understand what you trying to say???.....




If you posted their 4th quarter performances it wouldn't be close. Pressure weeds out the guys that are border line. What playoff teams wants those guys? Be honest. Lamar and Ariza won playoff games in the finals. Biiiig difference. Keep in mind this is seven years into the buiding process and the best they could do is two retiring players and Mo. Who would bank their future on that. In fact you prove my point.

Lamar Odom is great under pressure??.....I disagree.....Ariza is a solid player in crunchtime but your reaching if you think a career journeyman is "so much better Playoff Performer" then other teamates Lebron had....



You are comparing two Shaq who is a bit of a liability at the end of games for several reasons at this stage. Jamison who hated to dribble for 12 years and isn't the same player he once was and Mo (not ready for the big show) Willliams to three guys that made a career of big time shots. One of which won finals MVP and the other who definitely could have won one also. The other, Capt. Jack, who carried teams and won playoff games himself. All of which showed early signs of this in '03.

Shaq has always been a liability in crunchtime.......Jamison was a 20PPG 7REB player and a proven "playoff performer"....Mo Williams was an allstar in 2010 and IMO was ready and played great all year....

Stephen Jackson is not a player who can carry a team..he is also a career Journeyman who never won anything by "himself"....no one has.

TP is a great PG that did win Finals MVP....If only Lebron had a PG who averaged 15PPG and 5 - 6AST .....oh wait.

I think what you really mean is......Lebron James 2X MVP coming off Back to Back 60 win seasons as favorites to win it all....needs to LEAVE to go play with 2 top 10 Players and a Top 3 SG with one of the greatest "Playoff performances" of all time in order to win......


I think your right......it's silly/sad/cowardly.....but as long as the Heat win..it's easy.


But if they lose.....then what?