Tracy McGrady (pre-injuries) v.s. Dwyane Wade

[Samurai Swoosh]

Whose the better player? And who are you taking for your team?

[zay_24]

Kobe

[Dwade305]

Give me an 08-09 bettlejuice over lazyeye. Shame what a godawful team both players had at their peak

[DirkNowitzki41]

Kobe
lmfao .

[Magic38]

Pre injury t Mac over wade any day!

[magnax1]

That's tough.... I really can't say either way. That's one of the closer comparisons I can think of.

[JGXEN]

T-Mac was the better scorer with a better jumpshot. Wade should be the better defender imo

[Hulk Hogan]

Is this a joke? T-mac easily!

[Rysio]

the one with a jump shot.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Dwyane Wade, all day everyday. When Dwyane Wade had an elite big man on his team, he won a championship. When Tracy McGrady had an elite big man, he got bounced out of the first round. That is the difference between the two.

[CelticBaller]

the one with a jump shot.
t-mac?

[jrong]

Wade is just as productive and far more efficient. And defense is night and day. On top of that, Wade has a proven ability to win in the playoffs.

In case you haven't noticed, for the last game and-a-half, Wade has looked like the best player in the world. He's had dominant performances this year, but he hasn't looked like this once before the second half of Game 1 since last year's Celtics series.

[L.Kizzle]

Dwyane Wade, all day everyday. When Dwyane Wade had an elite big man on his team, he won a championship. When Tracy McGrady had an elite big man, he got bounced out of the first round. That is the difference between the two.
Elite big, I'm from Houston and want to see the guy do good but he's no where near Shaq's level, never was.

He just doesn't dominate like past elite bigs.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Elite big, I'm from Houston and want to see the guy do good but he's no where near Shaq's level, never was.

He just doesn't dominate like past elite bigs.
He was an elite big. Sure as hell not as good as prime Shaq, but as good as 05-06 Shaq at the least.

[Skywalker]

d wade is nice but....

prime tmac is the best I've seen

[L.Kizzle]

He was an elite big. Sure as hell not as good as prime Shaq, but as good as 05-06 Shaq at the least.
Trust me, he was not. Shaq changes the game just by being out there, the intimidation factor, Yao, not at all.

[ImmortalNemesis]

What's ISH's definition of "elite"? Compared to Shaq, Yao sure as hell wasn't elite. If by 'elite' we mean top 3 center then yes he was elite. Yao did change the game by just being out there. He changed so many shots around the rim area that didn't show up in the stats sheet.

@OP:

I would take prime Wade over McGrady. They're both equally talented but McGrady kinda loses his pair in the playoffs. Again, this isn't about talent. Wade has 'it', McGrady doesn't. Dude was getting checked by Fisher in the playoffs.

[Papaya Petee]

Uhhh, Wade quite easily.

30\8\5\2\1 All-NBA defense is better then 32\7\6\ with average defense poor shooting percetange.

Also, Wade 8 years in his career has more great seasons then T-Mac in his whatever 13-14 year career

Wade can will you in the playoffs, actually win a series.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Uhhh, Wade quite easily.

30\8\5\2\1 All-NBA defense is better then 32\7\6\ with average defense poor shooting percetange.

Also, Wade 8 years in his career has more great seasons then T-Mac in his whatever 13-14 year career

Wade can will you in the playoffs, actually win a series.

Well, T-Mac's shooting percentage in his 2003 was definitely not poor. He shot 46% from the field, 39% on 3s while making 2.3 of them per game and 79% and had a TS% of 56%. Even better when you consider it took place in the toughest defensive era(1998-2004).

And as far as winning a playoff series, well, Wade needed help to do it, just like T-Mac would've needed it. Prime T-Mac in Orlando shouldn't have been expcted to have won any of those series because he was always facing more talented teams and his playoff numbers with Orlando were excellent. Wade didn't win in '09 or '10 when he had to play with casts like that either.

[ThaSwagg3r]

What's ISH's definition of "elite"? Compared to Shaq, Yao sure as hell wasn't elite. If by 'elite' we mean top 3 center then yes he was elite. Yao did change the game by just being out there. He changed so many shots around the rim area that didn't show up in the stats sheet.

@OP:

I would take prime Wade over McGrady. They're both equally talented but McGrady kinda loses his pair in the playoffs. Again, this isn't about talent. Wade has 'it', McGrady doesn't. Dude was getting checked by Fisher in the playoffs.
Actually McGrady was much more talented than D. Wade was. McGrady was on Kobe and VC's level of talent.

This comparison is just another example of how hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. Wade is the hard worker while McGrady is the talented slacker

[knightfall88]

Tmac at his peak would be the best player in the game today

[PullupJay]

Tmac at his peak would be the best player in the game today
yo true story

[IamSofaKing]

Tmac

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Well, T-Mac's shooting percentage in his 2003 was definitely not poor. He shot 46% from the field, 39% on 3s while making 2.3 of them per game and 79% and had a TS% of 56%. Even better when you consider it took place in the toughest defensive era(1998-2004).

And as far as winning a playoff series, well, Wade needed help to do it, just like T-Mac would've needed it. Prime T-Mac in Orlando shouldn't have been expcted to have won any of those series because he was always facing more talented teams and his playoff numbers with Orlando were excellent. Wade didn't win in '09 or '10 when he had to play with casts like that either.
No what are you talking about? T-mac was a choker, it's plain and simple. He never won a playoff series, that's all that matters, circumstance has nothing to do with it.

[Jacks3]

03 T-Mac is better than any version of Wade. Not only is he considerably more skilled, but he put up his numbers in a MUCH tougher defensive era.

[Jacks3]

In case you haven't noticed, for the last game and-a-half, Wade has looked like the best player in the world.
Wow. One game and a half. Amazing.

[Stuckey]

03 T-Mac is better than any version of Wade. Not only is he considerably more skilled, but he put up his numbers in a MUCH tougher defensive era.

+1

next question

[Bigsmoke]

i noticed that Tmacs prime was one season long :lol

Give me Wade and his 6 MVP seasons than Tmac with his o so overrated 2003 campain.

He's a cry baby too. lil ho

[moe94]

The gap in their defense makes this a silly question. The gap in the offense is nonexistent.

[Heat007]

Wade pre-injury >>> T-Mac pre-injury

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p52I1Oy-7M

^^ Wade pre-injury was .90 of Jordan.. and Wade would undoubtedly be compared to MJ a lot more than he is now if he didn't suffer those 2 surgeries and get hurt.

In fact, with those injuries, Wade's career stats for ppg, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals for per minute are ALL right on par with LeBron since they entered the league in 2003.

[Heat007]

Wade pre-injury >>> T-Mac pre-injury

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8p52I1Oy-7M

^^ Wade pre-injury was .90 of Jordan in their "all-around" games.. and Wade would undoubtedly be compared to MJ a lot more than he is now if he didn't suffer those 2 surgeries and got hurt.

In fact, even with those injuries, Wade's career stats for ppg, FG%, assists, rebounds, blocks and steals for "per minute" are ALL right on par with LeBron James since they entered the league in 2003

[NugzHeat3]

I'll take Wade obviously but its a shame how unlucky TMac has been. 2003 was the first year they extended the first round series to 7, it just happened to be the same year where the Magic had a 3-1 lead on the Pistons (funny when TMAC said it feels good to be in the second round, dude probably forgot its a 7 game series). 2005, they win 2 games @ Dallas to go up 2-0, then they lose in game 7 with everyone besides TMac and Yao playing like dogsht. 2008, Yao missed the playoffs. 2009, he goes down and they make the second round. Healthy TMAC and Yao on the 2009 team probably takes LA down.

He was a good defender, too. He had Dirk on lock for a few games in 2005.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Funny how people act like McGrady was some crappy defender.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Funny how people act like McGrady was some crappy defender.
After the 01-02 season he pretty much stopped playing defense. He was a talented defender, but not a willing one. Wade is both which was why he was clearly the better defender of the two.

[ThaSwagg3r]

GTFO ... he played very good defense for Van Gundy in Houston. That's actually when he played his best defense. Dead give away you know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about. Thanks for playing. Oh, and Wade is a good help defender. He's a lazy ass on the ball defender.
Ok... :oldlol:

How many all defensive teams has McGrady been on and how many has Wade been on? Wade was an all defensive member in his second season in the league. McGrady? :confusedshrug:

[ThaSwagg3r]

When McGrady was in the league at his height defensively, there was significantly more competition at his positions for best defender. And they too were in their prime no less.

Bown, Artest, Bryant, Battier, need I continue?

Also if we are going on defensive team selections, then you absolutely agree Kobe was 1st team all defense this year?

Nice.
You think Wade in the all defensive team because of hype/reputation, or something? :oldlol: And at least got into one defensive team. McGrady couldn't even get into ONE.

It is funny because McGrady only had two votes for the all defensive team in 04-05 when he was w/ the Rockets. While Wade actually got into the all-defensive second team that season.

And I am pretty sure in 04-05, Bowen, Artest, Bryant, and Battier were in their primes. Your arguments fails.

[Heat007]

GTFO ... he played very good defense for Van Gundy in Houston. That's actually when he played his best defense. Dead give away you know absolutely nothing about what you're talking about. Thanks for playing. Oh, and Wade is a good help defender. He's a lazy ass on the ball defender.

you're totally full of shit. Wade's defensive synergy numbers are off the charts fantastic for his man defense in his career. Don't look at the first 4 months of the regular season this year because he started the season not 100% and missed preseason with a leg injury.

but Wade has had 3 seasons of isolation numbers holding his isolations to under 30% shooting. And 2 out of those 3 seasons he was the best isolation defender in the league for those 2 seasons (in the 3rd, Wade was the 2nd best man defender when he held his matchups to under 30% shooting).

Kobe has never once come close to holding his isolation man defense to under 30% in any year in his career.. NOT ONCE!!!


Wade did it 3 times in his shorter career (2 of them even more shortened because of injuries). Wade is a fantastic all around defender and always has been. Wade was the anchor of a Miami defense over the last 2 years that ranked Top 5 in the NBA in BOTH seasons (before LeBron came over).

Let me repeat that, Wade "anchored" a defense in the Top 5 for 2 years in a row with those rabid and very mediocre rosters... Beasley was garbage defensively, so was Jermaine o'neal, and arroyo was atrocious defensively as well. The only help Wade had was Haslem who saw less minutes, and anthony who wasn't as good then as he's shown in the playoffs.

Kobe would never EVER in his overrated life ever lift those Miami rosters to having a Top 5 defense. He's not close to good enough to be able to accomplish that for a team. Kobe needed Artest, and a ton of Bigs who can defend - where Kobe can funnel players to, getting the easy way out because he's the most overrated player of all time.

Wade destroys Kobe in defense, and as an all-around and overall player.

[chazzy]

you're totally full of shit. Wade's defensive synergy numbers are off the charts fantastic for his man defense in his career. Don't look at the first 4 months of the regular season this year because he started the season not 100% and missed preseason with a leg injury.

but Wade has had 3 seasons of isolation numbers holding his isolations to under 30% shooting. And 2 out of those 3 seasons he was the best isolation defender in the league for those 2 seasons (in the 3rd, Wade was the 2nd best man defender when he held his matchups to under 30% shooting).

Kobe has never once come close to holding his isolation man defense to under 30% in any year in his career.. NOT ONCE!!!


Wade did it 3 times in his shorter career (2 of them even more shortened because of injuries). Wade is a fantastic all around defender and always has been. Wade was the anchor of a Miami defense over the last 2 years that ranked Top 5 in the NBA in BOTH seasons (before LeBron came over).

Let me repeat that, Wade "anchored" a defense in the Top 5 for 2 years in a row with those rabid and very mediocre rosters... Beasley was garbage defensively, so was Jermaine o'neal, and arroyo was atrocious defensively as well. The only help Wade had was Haslem who saw less minutes, and anthony who wasn't as good then as he's shown in the playoffs.

Kobe would never EVER in his overrated life ever lift those Miami rosters to having a Top 5 defense. He's not close to good enough to be able to accomplish that for a team. Kobe needed Artest, and a ton of Bigs who can defend - where Kobe can funnel players to, getting the easy way out because he's the most overrated player of all time.

Wade destroys Kobe in defense, and as an all-around and overall player.
This guy is so drunk off that Wade juice he can't even read the thread title

[creepingdeath]

T-Mac. I bet all those Wade jockers would have been McGrady-fans back in the day.. had they been old enough.

[SpLiTViZiOnZ]

There was a time when the Kobe/Tmac discussion as best player in the league was legitimately a heated discussion and I think for a season there, T-Mac probably had the upper hand. I love how Wade winning in the playoffs is some type of barometer, he had Shaq and now he has two beasts on his team. T-Mac had Mike Miller for christs sake!

[creepingdeath]

There was a time when the Kobe/Tmac discussion as best player in the league was legitimately a heated discussion and I think for a season there, T-Mac probably had the upper hand. I love how Wade winning in the playoffs is some type of barometer, he had Shaq and now he has two beasts on his team. T-Mac had Mike Miller for christs sake!
/This, so much!

Wade never went head-to-head against a young and athletic Bryant and came out victoriously.

[Nastradamus]

Its obviously Wade. More fire, more work ethic, more defense. Just as good as a scorer and playmaker. What edge could TMac possibly have? TMAc in his prime was a superstar, but that doesn't make him better than Wade. He was more Rudy Gay plus than Lebron/Wade caliber.

[blablabla]

you're totally full of shit. Wade's defensive synergy numbers are off the charts fantastic for his man defense in his career. Don't look at the first 4 months of the regular season this year because he started the season not 100% and missed preseason with a leg injury.

but Wade has had 3 seasons of isolation numbers holding his isolations to under 30% shooting. And 2 out of those 3 seasons he was the best isolation defender in the league for those 2 seasons (in the 3rd, Wade was the 2nd best man defender when he held his matchups to under 30% shooting).

Kobe has never once come close to holding his isolation man defense to under 30% in any year in his career.. NOT ONCE!!!


Wade did it 3 times in his shorter career (2 of them even more shortened because of injuries). Wade is a fantastic all around defender and always has been. Wade was the anchor of a Miami defense over the last 2 years that ranked Top 5 in the NBA in BOTH seasons (before LeBron came over).

Let me repeat that, Wade "anchored" a defense in the Top 5 for 2 years in a row with those rabid and very mediocre rosters... Beasley was garbage defensively, so was Jermaine o'neal, and arroyo was atrocious defensively as well. The only help Wade had was Haslem who saw less minutes, and anthony who wasn't as good then as he's shown in the playoffs.

Kobe would never EVER in his overrated life ever lift those Miami rosters to having a Top 5 defense. He's not close to good enough to be able to accomplish that for a team. Kobe needed Artest, and a ton of Bigs who can defend - where Kobe can funnel players to, getting the easy way out because he's the most overrated player of all time.

Wade destroys Kobe in defense, and as an all-around and overall player.
we should leave you wade and his jaw alone for some time

[L.Kizzle]

This has been a myth for a long time now. If you ever watched his playoff series, which I'm leaning towards most of you didn't, he annually had terrible supporting casts. Even in Houston. Generally, Yao Ming would shrink to the moment, and not be the force out there they needed him to be in order to win.

Since joining the Magic, when he broke out as a superstar

Regular season 2000 - 2001

27 ppg, 8 rpg, 5 apg

Post season 2000 - 2001

34 ppg, 7 rpg, 8 apg

Regular season 2001 - 2002

26 ppg, 8 rpg, 5 apg

Post season 2001 - 2002

31 ppg, 6 rpg, 6 apg

Regular season 2002 - 2003

32 ppg, 7 rpg, 6 apg

Post season 2002 - 2003

32 ppg, 7 rpg, 5 apg

Regular season 2004 - 2005 (Houston)

26 ppg, 6 rpg, 6 apg

Post season 2004 - 2005

31 ppg, 7 rpg, 7 apg

Regular season 2006 - 2007

25 ppg, 5 rpg, 7 apg

Post season 2006 - 2007

25 ppg, 6 rpg, 7 apg

Regular season 2007 - 2008

22 ppg, 5 apg, 6 apg

Post season 2007 - 2008

27 ppg, 8 rpg, 7 apg

McGrady always produced at his regular season numbers, or in this case most of the time played at a MUCH higher level in the playoffs. The over dramatization that McGrady didn't "bring it" in the playoffs is utterly false. Him not getting out of the wrong NEVER had ANYTHING to do with his play. He always showed up in SPADES. His teammates always let him down.

Just look at that 2007 - 2008 season. He was on the decline because of his back injury that plagued him his entire year, and he managed to increase his ppg by 5 in the playoffs. And it went 7 games with the Jazz, and in game 7 he dropped 40+.
McGrady is one of the best playoff performers of the post Jordan generation. Shame he had such crap around him for the tenure of his career.
Everyone is ignoring this post. I think Mac is 5th all time in playoff ppg behind Jordan, West, Baylor and Iverson.

[moe94]

Are we really going to act like '08 Wade doesn't completely shit on any version of T-Mac? Hell, '10 Durant was a better player than McGrady at his peak.

Is T-Mac better than LeBron, too?

[Jacks3]

The gap in their defense makes this a silly question. The gap in the offense is nonexistent.

T-Mac was the better offensive player though. He scored more on equal efficiency, did a much better job taking care of the ball, and was a more naturally gifted passer. Wade is a slightly better play-maker due his quickness advantage, but that doesn't make up for all the areas T-Mac has him beat.

[Jacks3]

you're totally full of shit. Wade's defensive synergy numbers are off the charts fantastic for his man defense in his career. Don't look at the first 4 months of the regular season this year because he started the season not 100% and missed preseason with a leg injury.

but Wade has had 3 seasons of isolation numbers holding his isolations to under 30% shooting. And 2 out of those 3 seasons he was the best isolation defender in the league for those 2 seasons (in the 3rd, Wade was the 2nd best man defender when he held his matchups to under 30% shooting).

Kobe has never once come close to holding his isolation man defense to under 30% in any year in his career.. NOT ONCE!!!


Wade did it 3 times in his shorter career (2 of them even more shortened because of injuries). Wade is a fantastic all around defender and always has been. Wade was the anchor of a Miami defense over the last 2 years that ranked Top 5 in the NBA in BOTH seasons (before LeBron came over).

Let me repeat that, Wade "anchored" a defense in the Top 5 for 2 years in a row with those rabid and very mediocre rosters... Beasley was garbage defensively, so was Jermaine o'neal, and arroyo was atrocious defensively as well. The only help Wade had was Haslem who saw less minutes, and anthony who wasn't as good then as he's shown in the playoffs.

Kobe would never EVER in his overrated life ever lift those Miami rosters to having a Top 5 defense. He's not close to good enough to be able to accomplish that for a team. Kobe needed Artest, and a ton of Bigs who can defend - where Kobe can funnel players to, getting the easy way out because he's the most overrated player of all time.

Wade destroys Kobe in defense, and as an all-around and overall player.
A SG can't anchor a defense. Don't be ridiculous. :facepalm

[Jacks3]

Are we really going to act like '08 Wade doesn't completely shit on any version of T-Mac? Hell, '10 Durant was a better player than McGrady at his peak.


:facepalm

[BlackJoker23]

hey jacks, who was better 03 kobe or 03 tmac?

[Bigsmoke]

O shit! we got Tmac... what are we going to do now?

lets trade him for Steve Francis!

lol @ guys claimed Wade is better than Lebron so prime Tmac was better than LeBron too right :lol

[moe94]

People drunk of the nostalgia. I used to rock the Magic Jersey back in the day, too, but that doesn't change the fact that he's outclassed.

[Jacks3]

hey jacks, who was better 03 kobe or 03 tmac?
It's very, very close. I'd give the slight advantage to T-Mac because he had the better playoffs and was the clear #1 on his team.

[Jacks3]

Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen

STFU now please
You're delusional if you think Jordan was anchoring anything. He was a great defender, but there's a reason the Bulls were elite defensively without him.

Now STFU.

[FKAri]

Michael Jordan and Scottie Pippen

STFU now please

:facepalm

In a league where zone is illegal, perimeter players can a make a bigger impact with their individual defense.

And in a league that allows hand checking, perimeter players can make an even greater impact defensively.

MJ would not be winning DPOYs in today's league, because he wouldn't be allowed to have the same impact as a Dwight Howard or any capable big-man

[Bigsmoke]

It's very, very close. I'd give the slight advantage to T-Mac because he had the better playoffs and was the clear #1 on his team.

lol he wasnt.

Tmac cry and lose series after being up 2-0 while Wade win series after being down 2-0.


McGrady had a better team than the Jazz with a 25/10 center in 2007 WITH home court and still lose after being up 2-0 and then 3-2 :oldlol:

[tpols]

In a league where zone is illegal, perimeter players can a make a bigger impact with their individual defense.

I don't follow the logic here. Perimeter players can impact the game in a huge way by playing great positional defense~doubling, playing a 'zone' to defend two players, etc., and by effectively playing the passing lanes, two components of help defense that are much easier to do when players aren't constricted to only playing their man on the court. It's not like big men weren't allowed to jump off of their man to protect the paint/rim back then either.

[Jacks3]

Yea as a team, after he got on their asses for years to get them to even play defense. After years of leadership and intensity on that end of the floor.

You're retarded if you don't think Jordan's mentality and leadership by example defensively didn't force the younger guys to take notice and act accordingly.

Thus, "anchoring" the defense.

Bye Jacks3 ... take your Jordan hating agenda elsewhere.
Yeah, Jordan's "intensity" is why they were better defensively in 94 without him than 93. :oldlol:

And how is it hating to say a SG can't anchor a defense? That's one of the most commonly accepted ideas among the basketball community. Dude is like my second favorite player ever after Bryant.

:facepalm

[Jacks3]

lol he wasnt.

Tmac cry and lose series after being up 2-0 while Wade win series after being down 2-0.


McGrady had a better team than the Jazz with a 25/12 in 2007 WITH home court and still lose after being up 2-0 and then 3-2 :oldlol:
That was in response to the 03 T-Mac vs 03 Bryant...

[Bigsmoke]

That was in response to the 03 T-Mac vs 03 Bryant...

o shit my bad dawg. :lol

we cool?

[jrong]

People drunk of the nostalgia. I used to rock the Magic Jersey back in the day, too, but that doesn't change the fact that he's outclassed.

You just hit it on the head. The two biggest reasons so many past players are overrated are nostalgia and era-bias.

The poster who nailed it earlier was the one who said Wade has "it", and TMac didn't. I'll grant McGrady has more natural talent, but he didn't have Wade's fire, defense, basketball IQ, or efficiency. Wade equals his production, does it more efficiently, plays better defense, works harder, and is a proven winner.

So again, whatever the formula is for "it"-- whatever combination of intangibles and also the right mix of skill AND will, Wade has it. And TMac did not. And I can't believe we're still having this debate..

[Jacks3]

So the Bulls were a better team defensively without Jordan than with him?

You truly believe that?

What about in comparison to 1991, 1992, 1995, 1996, 1997, or 1998?

Only a delusional person would believe the Bulls would be a better defensive team w/o Jordan, than with him.

Regardless of one seasons "statistics" say ...

And I'm sorry, defense has never been measurable in statistics. Individually or team wise.

Who was the best defense this year by the numbers? The Bulls.

Who actually was the best defense this year? The Heat.
And yet they had a better DRTG in 94 than 93. I'm sure that was a effort thing more than anything, but if Jordan was really anchoring their defense than they would collapsed. But they didn't. Anchoring is what guys like KG, Hakeem, Duncan do. The entire system is built around them. Jordan wasn't on that level. It's not hating to say that. NO PERIMETER PLAYER CAN ANCHOR A DEFENSE. They can can certainly be a very strong cog in the system (like Pippen/Jordan were), but they aren't anchoring it like big-men do.

And no, the Heat were not a better defensive team than the Bulls. Every single defensive stat says the Bulls were better and it's not even that close.

C'mon man. :facepalm

[RaceBannana]

Dwyane Wade, all day everyday. When Dwyane Wade had an elite big man on his team, he won a championship. When Tracy McGrady had an elite big man, he got bounced out of the first round. That is the difference between the two.

but that dominant big man plays what? 40 - 50 games a season?

about the comparison.... gimme Wade.... Heart is an important part of the game.

[Jacks3]

You stole that post from loki/oldschoolbball. :facepalm

[BlackJoker23]

You stole that post from loki/oldschoolbball. :facepalm
:roll: :roll:

[AlphaWolf24]

Watching Both players whole careers I would take Wade...

Wade seems like he has "IT" and is much more harder worker and better leader...

While TMAC had all the talent in the world ...he never seemed like he wanted to win or had the desire to push himself Like Wade has shown...

TMAC had all the talent and then some...but has ruined all team chemistry everywhere he played.....

[ganja0710]

The only person who i would take over a PRIME t-mac is a prime Kobe. Thats it.

[Heat007]

The only person who i would take over a PRIME t-mac is a prime Kobe. Thats it.

that's because you're stupid

[ganja0710]

that's because you're stupid
:roll:

Bitter heat fan that made a stupid thread that completely backfired.

Classic.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Second round virgin vs NBA finals MVP? I wasted 0.5 seconds of my life on this one. Thanks ISH.

[ThaSwagg3r]

but that dominant big man plays what? 40 - 50 games a season?

about the comparison.... gimme Wade.... Heart is an important part of the game.
He played in the 05 and 07 post season and Tmac still couldn't lead the Rockets past the 1st round.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Everyone is ignoring this post. I think Mac is 5th all time in playoff ppg behind Jordan, West, Baylor and Iverson.
Kind of easy when you play less than 7 games every post season.

In Wade's career he has played in 83 playoff games. In McGrady's career he has played in 38 playoff games. Dwyane Wade is from the 2003 NBA Draft class whereas Tracy McGrady is from the 1997 NBA draft class.

So Tmac has been in the league 6 years longer than Wade has, yet Wade has played twice as many playoff games as McGrady has. :oldlol:

[L.Kizzle]

Kind of easy when you play less than 7 games every post season.
Pretty sure he was also doin this against the higher seeds. Not like he was taking advantage of a weaker, lower seed since he was on the lower seeds.

[Heat007]

Pretty sure he was also doin this against the higher seeds. Not like he was taking advantage of a weaker, lower seed since he was on the lower seeds.

Wade has played against elite defenses more than anyone. someone put a graph up and 68% of Wade's playoff games have been against elite defenses...a far higher percentage than guys like Kobe for example. And a lot more than LeBron as well

[ThaSwagg3r]

The only person who i would take over a PRIME t-mac is a prime Kobe. Thats it.
Whew. Good thing you aren't a GM.

[ImmortalNemesis]

@ poster who replied to me earlier.

I definitely agree with the first part of your post. McGrady had a shitty supporting cast earlier in his career with Orlando. Who was his 2nd go to guy? Howard? lol That team had no business going to 7 games against Detroit, but posters want to punish him for "choking" away a 3-1 lead.

But in Houston, he choked away too many leads. He had a 2-0 series lead against Dallas and lost the next 2 at home. That's choking right? :oldlol: Granted his team wasn't all that but if you can't win a series going back home up 2-0 you deserve to be a 2nd round virgin.

Something about Tracy always irks me the wrong way. He's like Vince Carter, shrinks when the game/series is on the line. Other than the game winner @ Dallas, I don't remember a single game where I can say 'Holy shit T-Mac took over the game :bowdown: '. Note: I'm talking about his Houston days.

That said, the only series' I feel he should have won are the ones against Dallas and Utah (2007). In 2007 he again blew a 2-0 series lead. And that team was pretty evenly matched. I feel like Houston was the better team. Utah was a little more balanced but Houston had 2 superstars in their prime; so losing even though you have a 2-0 series lead is unacceptable.

I can make a lot of excuses for Tracy, and some good ones too. But I won't. At some point you have to see it and tell it like it is. Yes, Tracy had Alston as his starting PG. He sucked, yes. Where is Alston now? Still sucking. Yes, McGrady had an unexperienced Hayes who was still raw, but at some point the excuses have to stop. Tracy simply doesn't have "it".

Utah in 2008 was by far the better team so I'm not even going there. I knew Utah was winning before the series even started. IIRC, Mutumbo was the starting center that year. Mutumbo, Hayes, and Alston...that's not necessarily a 'good' starting line up, isn't it? 2005 and 2007 are the years I feel Tmac should have advanced to the 2nd round, but he didn't despite having a 2-0 series lead. Its a shame he wasted his prime in Orlando.

This is a good thread. People acting like the prime T-Mac-Wade comparison is a joke are stupid. McGrady was really really good in his prime, but mentally he was soft. Try to find a happy medium, guys.

PS- Post his FG percentage.

[noob cake]

Neither Kobe or Wade (any version) could touch TMac's prime.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Why are so many people bringing up T-Mac losing with Yao in this thread when it's pre-injuries T-Mac vs Wade?

The only season with Houston that I think you could consider T-Mac's prime was 2005 and Yao wasn't an elite player yet, and despite playing well, was in constant foul trouble in that series vs Dallas. T-Mac had a great series too. He did everything and pretty much dominated. After that, the injuries really started to rob T-Mac of his explosiveness and shooting ability. He did show flashes of the old T-Mac when he carried Houston in 2007 after Yao went down and played MVP-caliber basketball during a stretch of 30 games or so, but the real prime T-Mac was from 2001-2005.

[IGOTGAME]

Why are so many people bringing up T-Mac losing with Yao in this thread when it's pre-injuries T-Mac vs Wade?

The only season with Houston that I think you could consider T-Mac's prime was 2005 and Yao wasn't an elite player yet, and despite playing well, was in constant foul trouble in that series vs Dallas. T-Mac had a great series too. He did everything and pretty much dominated. After that, the injuries really started to rob T-Mac of his explosiveness and shooting ability. He did show flashes of the old T-Mac when he carried Houston in 2007 after Yao went down and played MVP-caliber basketball during a stretch of 30 games or so, but the real prime T-Mac was from 2001-2005.

exactly, the guy in Houston(the majority of the time) was not prime T-Mac.

[Ikill]

Actually McGrady was much more talented than D. Wade was. McGrady was on Kobe and VC's level of talent.

This comparison is just another example of how hard work beats talent when talent doesn't work hard. Wade is the hard worker while McGrady is the talented slacker
Kobes not that talented Wades more talented

[Bigsmoke]

exactly, the guy in Houston(the majority of the time) was not prime T-Mac.

thats my point.

Tmac's prime was only 1 or 2 seasons long.

[Bigsmoke]

Neither Kobe or Wade (any version) could touch TMac's prime.

**** that

Give me 2006 Kobe all day