All time SG rankings

[Doctor Rivers]

Jordan
Wade (soon to be 1b)
Bryant
West
Drexler

:rockon::rockon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgE2JG1k0Fg

[Doctor Rivers]

What does your list look like?

[LeFraud Shames]

:facepalm

[Boston C's]

Right now its
1. Jordan
2. Bryant
3. West
4. Wade
5. Drexler
6. Iverson
7. Gervin
8. Allen
9. Miller
10.Dumars

Wade will surpass west when his career is done though

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Right now its
1. Jordan
2. Bryant
3. West
4. Wade
5. Drexler
6. Iverson
7. Gervin
8. Allen
9. Miller
10.Dumars

Wade will surpass west when his career is done though

Mitch Richmond > Miller and Dumars

[ball_handler]

in terms of dominance, talent and accomplishments and competition
1a.kobe
1b.jordan
3.wade
4.iverson
5.Allen

[Boston C's]

Mitch Richmond > Miller and Dumars

You could argue that and even though ray allen is my favorite player he was basically a mitch ritchmond too (to me slightly better could be my bias) except he got the ring with an actual important role on the team when he won his and 10 all stars to his 5, however the 8 to 10 list you could really put a number of ppl on it

[Papaya Petee]

1.) Jordan



2.) Kobe
3.) Wade


4.) West
5.) Drexler

[Boston C's]

in terms of dominance, talent and accomplishments and competition
1a.kobe
1b.jordan
3.wade
4.iverson
5.Allen

If by allen your goin with ray allen i have to respectfully disagree and thats hard for me considering hes my favorite player ever after M.J

[iggy>]

1.) Jordan



2.) Kobe
3.) Wade


4.) West
5.) Drexler
End thread

[Hank]

Jordan
Wade
West
Drexler and Bryant (tied)

[BlackJoker23]

Jordan
Wade (soon to be 1b)
Bryant
West
Drexler

:rockon::rockon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgE2JG1k0Fg
west over bryant.

[PHILA]

The Game Within the Game - Walt Frazier

http://i.imgur.com/fEHTj.png



Season of the 76ers: the story of Wilt Chamberlain and the 1967 NBA champions - Wayne Lynch

"I think I'm better than the fourth guard," Greer told reporters. "You gotta realize that Oscar is the greatest. Jerry West is right behind Oscar, but I think I should be up there. I think I'm on a par with West.


The Black Athlete: Emergence & Arrival - 1968

No one in basketball is more effective than Hal Greer at sprinting down the middle of the court on a fast break, stopping just beyond the keyhole and scoring on a jump shot. "Hal," said one NBA coach, "has the finest middle-distance shot in the game." From fifteen to eighteen feet, Greer is more deadly than the Big O." At 6 ft. 3 in. and 178 pounds, Greer frequently gives away 40 pounds and 6 inches to NBA adversaries assigned to shutting off the middle. The key to Greer's success, therefore, is maneuverability and speed. Particularly speed.


Great teams of pro basketball - 1971

First there was Hal Greer, one of the best guards in the game. He was fast. "I must be fast," Greer said, "always, always quick. The day I slow down I'm finished." And he was a constant scoring threat. Said his former coach, Dolph Schayes, "Hal has the finest middle-distance shot in the game. From 15 to 18 feet, Hal is more deadly than Oscar Robertson." At 6'2", 175 pounds, Greer was agile, strong and not prone to injury. An eight-year veteran of NBA play, he could be counted on to average 20 points a game and contribute steadily in assists.


Rockin' steady; a guide to basketball & cool - Walt Frazier

I never expected the worst to be so bad as the first time I guarded Hal Greer. It was 1967, when I was a rookie. I came into the league with a deserved reputation as a great defensive player. But Hal Greer killed me.


Dynasty's End: Bill Russell And the 1968-69 World Champion Boston Celtics - Thomas J. Whalen

"Hal needs a certain amount of recognition to show people that he's on par with Robertson and West," All-Star teammate Wilt Chamberlain said afterward.

Greer needed no convincing himself. He knew he was the equal of any elite guard in the league, and that included Sam Jones of the Celtics. "He's on a team where they work for him," Greer said. "Our team is balanced. We're a team all the way. We don't work for one guy. Sam doesn't really have to work for his shots. They work for him. He's strictly offense, I'm offense plus I move the ball, too. I move on the fast break." Always intense and demanding of himself as a player, Greer strove for nothing short of basketball perfection in every contest. "After a game," he once revealed, "I think about the mistakes I made on defense that night. Sometimes I stay up all night thinking about defense, like after I've been chasing Oscar all over the court. That's enough to keep any man awake."'



Jet Magazine - Mar 15, 1982

http://i.imgur.com/2jfMK.png



[I]Hal Greer: Productive, Consistent and Durable

This article originally appeared in the January 2006 issue of Hoop.

Star Guard on a Team for the Ages

Hal Greer made the All-NBA Second Team seven straight years but never was selected to the All-NBA First Team. That

[chips93]

Right now its
1. Jordan
2. Bryant
3. West
4. Wade
5. Drexler
6. Iverson
7. Gervin
8. Allen
9. Miller
10.Dumars

Wade will surpass west when his career is done though


this, bump dumars and iverson up a couple spots and drop drexler a few tho, and greer and sam jomes probably deserve a mention from what ive read about them

[Kobe24Clutch]

Jordan
Wade (soon to be 1b)
Bryant
West
Drexler

:rockon::rockon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgE2JG1k0Fg
:facepalm :lol Wade > Bryant and West.

[Heat007]

1. Jordan
2. Wade
3. West



then the rest..

[ChandlerParsons]

1. Jordan
2. Wade
3. West



then the rest..
you forgot about the man named Kobe

[Ne 1]

West>Wade

[Heat007]

you forgot about the man named Kobe

no i didn't.

I put in the best. Kobe "the stringbean" bryant is in with "the rest". The most overrated player in nba history doesn't deserve to be on any Top 3 list, especially when it's compared to better players like Wade and West.

String-bean is out with the rest.

[Bigsmoke]

Kobe > Wade

[Ne 1]

no i didn't.

I put in the best. Kobe "the stringbean" bryant is in with "the rest". The most overrated player in nba history doesn't deserve to be on any Top 3 list, especially when it's compared to better players like Wade and West.

String-bean is out with the rest.
"I believe Kobe is still the best player in the league " - Dwayne Wade

[TheCorporation]

in terms of dominance, talent and accomplishments and competition
1a.kobe
1b.jordan
3.wade
4.iverson
5.Allen

LOL

[WadeRekeforlife]

1.Dwyane Wade
2.Tyreke Evans
3.Michael Jordan
4.Kobe Bryant
5.Allen Iverson
6.Ray Allen
7.Dominique Wilkins
8.Derrick Rose
9.Russell Westbrook
10.Jerry West

[kingmob]

Anybody who adds Allen Iverson to any list :hammerhead:

the basketball knowledge of Ish forums is equivalent of Jersey Shore.

[bizil]

1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Wade
5. Glide
6. Gervin
7. Iverson
8. Ray Ray
9. Monroe
10. Maravich

Reggie, David Thompson, Dumars, Greer, and Sam Jones all have a case for the top ten as well.

[WadeRekeforlife]

Anybody who adds Allen Iverson to any list :hammerhead:

the basketball knowledge of Ish forums is equivalent of Jersey Shore.

He would make Jerry West look like Beno Udrih if they played one on one in their primes

[Boston C's]

1. MJ
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Wade
5. Glide
6. Gervin
7. Iverson
8. Ray Ray
9. Monroe
10. Maravich

Reggie, David Thompson, Dumars, Greer, and Sam Jones all have a case for the top ten as well.

This is better then my list lol although id put greer/dumars in there instead of maravich only because I would put maravich in my top 10 point guards

[kingmob]

He would make Jerry West look like Beno Udrih if they played one on one in their primes

Oh Lord. If NBA games were played on a playground and one on one games would win trophies, then yes, Allen Iverson would look like a great all time SG. But they aren't.

Jerry West is a vastly superior player in all respects and areas of the game. Allen Iverson couldn't sniff his jock.

[Kellogs4toniee]

The amount of idiocy in this thread is amazing.

Kobe 1A, Jordan 1B?

Kobe doesn't deserve to be a top three shooting guard?

Tyreke at number 2?

Granted most of it is trolling, but it's still :facepalm with cherry on top.

[kingmob]

1. Jordan
2. Jerry West
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Clyde Drexler
5. George Gerwin
6. John Havlicek
7. Pistol Pete Maravich
8. Dwayne Wade
9 - 10 U can have a battle between Iverson, Reggie Miller, Earl the Pearl, Joe Dumars, Ray Allen, Tmac or whoever else you might see worthy.

[Kellogs4toniee]

1. Jordan
2. Jerry West
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Clyde Drexler
5. George Gerwin
6. John Havlicek
7. Pistol Pete Maravich
8. Dwayne Wade
9 - 10 U can have a battle between Iverson, Reggie Miller, Earl the Pearl, Joe Dumars, Ray Allen, Tmac or whoever else you might see worthy.

Although I think Wade is above Drexler, I can see how it's arguable. If you were to ask me this question before this season, I would have Gervin above Wade. And even that's pushing it considering how critical Wade was in that finals series (regardless of how the officiating was). Havlichek is for the majority considered a small forward of his era, which is why he is on pretty much everybody's top SF's list.

There is absolutely no way Pistol Pete has a case over Dwayne Wade. If Wade receives another FMVP and Championship this year, he is clear-cut above Drexler and Gervin and deserves to skyrocket to that number 3 spot, with Kobe in his radar.

[atljonesbro]

1. Jordan
2. Jerry West
3. Kobe Bryant
4. Clyde Drexler
5. George Gerwin
6. John Havlicek
7. Pistol Pete Maravich
8. Dwayne Wade
9 - 10 U can have a battle between Iverson, Reggie Miller, Earl the Pearl, Joe Dumars, Ray Allen, Tmac or whoever else you might see worthy.
I thought we've already came to the conclusion there is absolultely 0 argument for Drexler over Wade. Move Wade to 4 and drop everyone he passes down 1 slot.

[kingmob]

Although I think Wade is above Drexler, I can see how it's arguable. If you were to ask me this question before this season, I would have Gervin above Wade. But all signs are pointing to Wade receiving another FMVP and Championship, in which case he is clear-cut above Drexler and Gervin. Havlichek is for the majority considered a small forward of his era, which is why he is on pretty much everybody's top SF's list.

There is absolutely no way Pistol Pete has a case over Dwayne Wade.



When all said and done Wade will/can move up. But those guys are legends, and Wade is still playing and earning his legacy. Until then, he belongs where I put him. And Havlicek was interchangeable between guard and SF(he was only 6'5), so he definitely belongs on this list.

[Kellogs4toniee]

When all said and done Wade will/can move up. But those guys are legends, and Wade is still playing and earning his legacy. Until then, he belongs where I put him. And Havlicek was interchangeable between guard and SF(he was only 6'5), so he definitely belongs on this list.


Fair enough, good post. I don't agree, but I agree to disagree.

[atljonesbro]

When all said and done Wade will/can move up. But those guys are legends, and Wade is still playing and earning his legacy. Until then, he belongs where I put him. And Havlicek was interchangeable between guard and SF(he was only 6'5), so he definitely belongs on this list.
Just because they're legends doesn't mean they're better than Wade. Wade is clearly better. Wade's legacy has already far surpassed Drexler's and his career still isn't even close to over.

[PJR]

1. Jordan
2. Wade

Don't care about the rest.

[Kobe24Clutch]

1.Kobe






2.Jordan aka poor man's Tony Allen
3.Wade
End thread.

[MasterDurant24]

It's silly for someone to put Wade over Kobe in an all time list when Kobe clearly has had a superior career by far. Just ridiculous.

[Da_Realist]

It's silly for someone to put Wade over Kobe in an all time list when Kobe clearly has had a superior career by far. Just ridiculous.

Has Kobe ever had a playoff run as good as Wade's having right now?

[kingmob]

Has Kobe ever had a playoff run as good as Wade's having right now?

Um..yea. Multiple times. Wade will need to win another 3-4 rings to be in the conversation with Kobe. Its simply an assasine, incredibly dubious conversation at this point.

[chazzy]

Has Kobe ever had a playoff run as good as Wade's having right now?
Total run? 01, 08, 09

[MasterDurant24]

Has Kobe ever had a playoff run as good as Wade's having right now?
Kobe had some two damn good playoff runs back to back in 07-08 and 08-09, where he averaged 30 points both years. (compared to Wade's 24.6 this year)

[Eat Like A Bosh]

1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Wade
5. Drexler
6. Richmond
7. Gervin
8. Allen
9. Miller
10.Mcgrady
I don't see why people keep saying Wade > Kobe when Kobe clearly has a superior, more accomplished career so far.

[Kobe24Clutch]

1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. West
4. Wade
5. Drexler
6. Richmond
7. Gervin
8. Allen
9. Miller
10.Mcgrady
I don't see why people keep saying Wade > Kobe when Kobe clearly has a superior, more accomplished career so far.
Because they stupid. :hammerhead:

[DMAVS41]

Has Kobe ever had a playoff run as good as Wade's having right now?

Yes.

[Fatal9]

Has Kobe ever had a playoff run as good as Wade's having right now?
:roll:

Wade is averaging 25/7/4 on 57 TS%. Kobe's never played that well in the playoffs now?

29/7/6 on 56 TS% + championship in 2001 (in the toughest defensive era). 30/6/6 on 58 TS% + finals in 2008. 30/5/6 on 56 TS% + championshop in 2009 (only MJ, Hakeem, Shaq, KAJ have averaged 30+ ppg in the playoffs on route to a championship). 29/6/6 on 57 TS% + championship last year.

[Boston C's]

you guys simply cannot have wade above kobe at this point idc if he wins a finals mvp for their career its not even close... if were talkin about players right now then yes wade is superior but career wise its Jordan then kobe with wade at the 3/4 spot

[Ne 1]

Has Kobe ever had a playoff run as good as Wade's having right now?

Didn't Wade put up 19ppg on 40 FG% in the Eastern Conference Finals?

[Da_Realist]

:roll:

Wade is averaging 25/7/4 on 57 TS%. Kobe's never played that well in the playoffs now?

29/7/6 on 56 TS% + championship in 2001 (in the toughest defensive era). 30/6/6 on 58 TS% + finals in 2008. 30/5/6 on 56 TS% + championshop in 2009 (only MJ, Hakeem, Shaq, KAJ have averaged 30+ ppg in the playoffs on route to a championship). 29/6/6 on 57 TS% + championship last year.

Ok. Didn't feel like looking it up. I KNOW he didn't have a Finals performance like this but didn't know about the total playoff run.

[L.Kizzle]

Top 15

Jordan
Kobe
West
Drexler
Iverson
Wade
Jones
Greer
Gervin
Allen
McGrady
Monroe
Bing
Pistol Pete
Moncrief


----

Dumars
Thompson
Richmond
Miller
Carter

[Bring-Your-Js]

Ok. Didn't feel like looking it up. I KNOW he didn't have a Finals performance like this but didn't know about the total playoff run.

Kobe has had several phenomenal playoff runs, but has shot 41% or worse in five of seven FINALS. Two exceptions being 2009 (32/6/7/43%) and in what was really his best statistically in 2002: 27/7/6 on 51.4% from the field.

[talkingconch]

Wade is not better than bryant or west. Stop with the knee jerk reactions lmao, we're talking about Jerry West here.

[Kobe24Clutch]

Top 15

Jordan
Kobe


West
Drexler
Iverson
Wade
Jones
Greer
Gervin
Allen
McGrady
Monroe
Bing
Pistol Pete
Moncrief


----

Dumars
Thompson
Richmond
Miller
Carter
Fixed.

[Mikaiel]

Why do so many people have Reggie Miller in their top 10 ? :confusedshrug:

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Jordan
Wade (soon to be 1b)
Bryant
West
Drexler

:rockon::rockon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgE2JG1k0Fg

that is only a little more accurate than this one:
Ray Allen
Gervin
Mitch Richmond
Reggie Miller
Eddie Jones

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Ok. Didn't feel like looking it up. I KNOW he didn't have a Finals performance like this but didn't know about the total playoff run.

your attempts to bust on Kobe keep getting slammed.
you can keep trying...just makes you look silly.

[B-Easy]

Kobe already had his 8 year run with Shaq... plus he has 7 Finals appearances.

Wade only has had 2 Final appearances .. and BOTH have been better than anything by Kobe... and he has a LOT MORE ahead of him for the rest of the decade.

Lets see what he does ..so far so good.

Oh and when it comes to DEFENSE .. people are so persuaded by the media..
Wade is better defensively than Kobe has ever been.

[Ne 1]

Kobe already had his 8 year run with Shaq

Why is this relevant?


plus he has 7 Finals appearances.

Amazing he has helped lead his team to 7 Finals in 10 years.


Wade only has had 2 Final appearances

Yup, which is 5 short of Bryant.



BOTH have been better than anything by Kobe

Kobe's 2001, 2002, 2009 and 2010 rings are all just as valuable as Wade's 2006 ring.


and he has a LOT MORE ahead of him for the rest of the decade.

We will have to see about that. He's already in his 8th season, has been injury prone and has already started to decline.


Lets see what he does ..so far so good.

So far so good, true. But still he's only slightly better than a past his prime, 15th-year in the league, 32-year old version of Kobe.



Wade is better defensively than Kobe has ever been.

No.

[B-Easy]

you obviously dont get my post...

Wade had 2 years with Shaq and 1 year with Lebron = 3 years of contending.
Kobe had 8 with Shaq and 3 with Pau/Bynum/Odom = 11 years of contending.

Kobe and Wade were drafted 5 YEARS APART .. if you compare them linearly OF COURSE Kobe is ahead.

Wade is just in YEAR 1 of title runs with Lebron ...
Kobe already had his 8 years of title runs with Shaq ..

Its all gonna depend on how Wade performs ... so far Year 1 is looking pretty good.

[AirJordan&Magic]

This is just getting out of hand with these Heat' fanboys.

Wade has been better than Kobe since 2009, but there is no way in hell Wade should be ranked over Kobe on the All time shooting guard list. Kobe is easliy the more accomplished player.

Hell, even Wade over West is debatable.

[AirJordan&Magic]

..
Wade is better defensively than Kobe has ever been.

That.. I can agree with. As for Wade being the greater SG? Hell no.

[Jacks3]

Wade is better defensively than Kobe has ever been.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Kobe in 00-04 was easily a better defender than Wade.

[fatboy11]

Top 15

Jordan
Kobe
West
Drexler
Iverson
Wade
Jones
Greer
Gervin
Allen
McGrady
Monroe
Bing
Pistol Pete
Moncrief


----

Dumars
Thompson
Richmond
Miller
Carter

Props on the Sidney Moncrief shout out. One of the greatest defensive guards in the history of the game and he never gets mentioned. 5 time All-Star, 4 time All-NBA 2nd team (made the 1st team once), 2 time DPOY. Also shot 50% for his career from the field. Not many 6'3 cats pulling that off.

[Jacks3]

Has Kobe ever had a playoff run as good as Wade's having right now?
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

2001, 2002, 2008, 2009, 2010 are all better.

Wade isn't even having that great a run. 25/7/4/57% TS isn't even as good as his own teammate. :facepalm

[tpols]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

This is the stupidest thing I've ever heard. Kobe in 00-04 was easily a better than Wade.
People are currently going on current kobe's defense.

In the early 2000s, kobe was a better man defender than wade has ever been.

[Jacks3]

:roll:

Wade is averaging 25/7/4 on 57 TS%. Kobe's never played that well in the playoffs now?

29/7/6 on 56 TS% + championship in 2001 (in the toughest defensive era). 30/6/6 on 58 TS% + finals in 2008. 30/5/6 on 56 TS% + championshop in 2009 (only MJ, Hakeem, Shaq, KAJ have averaged 30+ ppg in the playoffs on route to a championship). 29/6/6 on 57 TS% + championship last year.
Seriously. What a ridiculous question. :facepalm

[B-Easy]

This is just getting out of hand with these Heat' fanboys.

Wade has been better than Kobe since 2009, but there is no way in hell Wade should be ranked over Kobe on the All time shooting guard list. Kobe is easliy the more accomplished player.

Hell, even Wade over West is debatable.

whos saying he should? Obviously not as of today ..

Kobe already had his years with Shaq ..Wade is in year 1 with Lebron.

Theres so much more ahead for Wade .. hes not playing with a washed up Jermaine Oneal as his 2nd best player anymore.

He has a shot at rings for the next DECADE with Lebron ..just like Kobe had in the 2000s

[Jacks3]

Wade only has had 2 Final appearances .. and BOTH have been better than anything by Kobe..
His current Finals aren't better than what Kobe did in 2002 and 2009 against MUCH BETTER DEFENSES. :facepalm

[Jacks3]

whos saying he should? Obviously not as of today ..

Kobe already had his years with Shaq ..Wade is in year 1 with Lebron.

Theres so much more ahead for Wade .. hes not playing with a washed up Jermaine Oneal as his 2nd best player anymore.

He has a shot at rings for the next DECADE with Lebron ..just like Kobe had in the 2000s
Too bad any rings Wade gets will be as only the #2 guy on his team while Kobe has 3 Finals/2 rings as the clear man. Wade will never catch that. Oh, and he's going to be 30 yrs old next year. Next decade my ass. :facepalm

[Dasher]

Pete Maravich shouldn't be on anyone's list.

[Ne 1]

Kobe already had his years with Shaq ..Wade is in year 1 with Lebron.

Prime Kobe had 5 years with Shaq.


He has a shot at rings for the next DECADE with Lebron ..just like Kobe had in the 2000s


Wade's already 29 years old. I doubt that he will contend for rings for the next decade.

[AirJordan&Magic]

whos saying he should? Obviously not as of today ..

Kobe already had his years with Shaq ..Wade is in year 1 with Lebron.

Theres so much more ahead for Wade .. hes not playing with a washed up Jermaine Oneal as his 2nd best player anymore.

He has a shot at rings for the next DECADE with Lebron ..just like Kobe had in the 2000s

I have seen AT LEAST 5 post with idiots ranking Wade over Kobe. That was a response to those guys.

And he obviously has a shot at more rings with the best player in the world as his teammate, but he is not a greater SG than Kobe. No argument at all.

[DMAVS41]

People are currently going on current kobe's defense.

In the early 2000s, kobe was a better man defender than wade has ever been.

Don't forget the rules that allowed for the defense though.

Can't have it both ways tpols.

[Ronin]

no one in their right mind should have Wade before Bryant.

[Doctor Rivers]

no one in their right mind should have Wade before Bryant.

A lot of people do and he's hot on MJ's heels.

[Irish]

A lot of people do and he's hot on MJ's heels.

So he can bend over and tie his shoe laces for him? Because he isn't even fit to do that.

[moe94]

Jerry West is a vastly superior player in all respects and areas of the game. Allen Iverson couldn't sniff his jock.LOL

This trolled me to no end. I was about to punch the screen.

[Jacks3]

A lot of people do and he's hot on MJ's heels.
:oldlol:

[sic]

1.) Jordan



2.) Kobe
3.) Wade


4.) West
5.) Drexler


Agree with that list. Kobe can move to 3 and the list will still be good.

[tpols]

Don't forget the rules that allowed for the defense though.

Can't have it both ways tpols.
What rules? Handchecking? Kobe wasn't even one of the league's most physical defenders back then.. his lateral movement, quickness, and anticipation were the trademarks of his man defense.. he wasn't locking guys up in arm bars like artest. Sure it may have helped to give his man a push every now and then, but I really dont see how that diminishes his ability as a defender.. he, in his prime, was a better lockdown defender type that you could throw on the opposing team's best offensive player.

And that very argument can be used AGAINST wade as well. You're the one who always talks about how signifigant the rule changes were and how they made it SO much easier for perimeter players to attack the basket and also get foul calls[you constantly bring it up when we talk about the mavs and nash] and what do you know? Wade didn't break out until AFTER the rule changes and his whole game is predicated on driving the rim and getting foul calls[he's the 5th highest foul drawer in history], the two things the rule changes benefited perimeter players with the most..

So whose really gaining from these rule changes?:oldlol:

[Samurai Swoosh]

I rank them as such

1) Jordan

2) Bryant
3) Wade

4) West
5) Iverson

LMAO @ certain fans acting like Wade can't catch up or surpass Bryant.

They are lucky Wade didn't win a league MVP in 2006 or 2009, cause he would already have a legit enough resume to compete. If him and James keep stacking chips as a 1a) / 1b) scenario ... Wade could very well supplant Kobe as the #2 SG all-time.

Wade isn't that far behind Bryant, lettuce be real for a second. He's already catching up.

[catch24]

I rank them as such

1) Jordan

2) Bryant
3) Wade

4) West
5) Iverson

LMAO @ certain fans acting like Wade can't catch up or surpass Bryant.

They are lucky Wade didn't win a league MVP in 2006 or 2009, cause he would already have a legit enough resume to compete. If him and James keep stacking chips as a 1a) / 1b) scenario ... Wade could very well supplant Kobe as the #2 SG all-time.

Wade isn't that far behind Bryant, lettuce be real for a second. He's already catching up.

That's what I'm saying, bro. Not sure what everyone else is watching, but I'm seeing a dude on the verge of winning his second Finals MVP, and doing so in dominant fashion.

He'll have to win 2-3+ more Final MVPs to catch Bryant though. Well that or he gets some MVP's -- he's due for one.

[Samurai Swoosh]

That's what I'm saying, bro. Not sure what everyone else is watching, but I'm seeing a dude on the verge of winning his second Finals MVP, and doing so in dominant fashion.
Maybe not even. At this pace he is about to have 2x Finals MVP. That's assuming LeBron doesn't go out in the next few games and have like two consecutive 40 / 10 / 10 games. That would be crazy epic, and would probably get him MVP. Especially considering you know damn well the league and media is ITCHING to give him the Finals MVP trophy.

If he doesn't get a league MVP to match Kobe's ... he would need maybe another 2x Finals MVPs to off-set that league MVP Kobe has.

[DaHeezy]

no i didn't.

I put in the best. Kobe "the stringbean" bryant is in with "the rest". The most overrated player in nba history doesn't deserve to be on any Top 3 list, especially when it's compared to better players like Wade and West.

String-bean is out with the rest.

Please never post again. How do you figure anybody will ever take you seriously after that?

[Hank]

Wade will win MVP. It's quite obvious to all of us longtime Heat fans who know wade and know him well. And know what he's about.

when his mind is deadset on something, and truly set on winning with this much passion, as he certainly seems to be early in this series - there is nothing possible that can stop him... as he's shown so many times before.

[Gotterdammerung]

Gotterdammerung's irrefutable top 10 alltime Off (shooting/big) Guards:

#1. Jordan. Simple. Most guards relaxed on defense so they had enough for offensive resonsibilities. MJ? He actually went harder in practices than many guys did in games. That trickle down effect made the 12th man on the team go 110% too.

#2. Kobe Bryant. Only MJ had more talent. Kobe, in his prime, was nearly perfect in all phases of the game: creativity, shooting (esp. in the clutch), rebounding, passing, defense, & competing. His only weakness? A rampant narcissism, a character flaw that has had serious on & off-court ramifications. He's MJ's only challenger, and could contend for several more seasons, health-permitting. Career still incomplete but clearly past his prime.

#3. Bill Sharman. Right behind MJ as the best scorer/defender at big guard. Incredible athlete with a deadly one-hander & textbook execution of Red Auerbach's plays. (also played for Brooklyn Dodgers, and was a great golfer) On top of being a heroic scorer, Sharman was a scrappy rebounder, earnest passer & a reliable ball carrier & caretaker. His ferocious defense was severely underrated by fans & media. But he had the edge over most of his opponents in the strength, quickness & will-power departments. Sharman took the big shots during the halcyon days of Russell-Cousy years as well as stopping the opponent's most dangerous perimeter scorer.

#4. Sam Jones. The offensive half of the Celtics Jones Boys, Sam Jones' bank shots were probably the best in league history, and guaranteed by the FDIC. :oldlol: As the designated scorer, Jones was a solid passer & rebounder, & always ambushed the passing lanes with Russell in his backpocket. Jones used screens better than everyone and had a quicker release than Ray Allen. He was the Celtics' go to scorer for 8 years (61-68), but he always stepped up in the playoffs. Intelligent, stubborn, and forever scrambling on fastbreaks. Won 10 titles with Russell. :facepalm

#5. Hal Greer. Undersized at 6' 2" but had bull-like strength that made him bigger than his height. Dead-eye jumpshot, a tenacious rebounder, accurate passer, & reliable defender. However it was his relentless barrage from the perimeter that separated him from the other guards of his day. During the 1967 season, Hal Greer led the team in scoring in the playoffs at 27.7 and became the money man of the greatest team in league history.

#6. Clyde Drexler.
#7. Earl Monroe.
#8. Moncrief.
#9. Gervin

(unranked) Dwayne Wade. Powerful guard with slippery moves to the basket, Wade is a smaller version of the young Jordan. Won a title with a great series in 06, made the finals in 2011, but his career is still incomplete. He's still in his prime, hence the incomplete ranking/grade May move up with another title and sustained play, or may move down with injuries and declining play.

FYI Jerry West is a point guard.

[DaHeezy]

I rank them as such

1) Jordan

2) Bryant
3) Wade

4) West
5) Iverson

LMAO @ certain fans acting like Wade can't catch up or surpass Bryant.

They are lucky Wade didn't win a league MVP in 2006 or 2009, cause he would already have a legit enough resume to compete. If him and James keep stacking chips as a 1a) / 1b) scenario ... Wade could very well supplant Kobe as the #2 SG all-time.

Wade isn't that far behind Bryant, lettuce be real for a second. He's already catching up.

I can't really agree. If you take his 2 finals appearances he had Shaq and Lebron. Arguable that time periods 2 most dominant players in the game. Outside of that what really had he done? The Heat have been terrible. 1 Wade lead Heat team finished near the bottom of the league. Now that he has Bron on lock that hurts his resume more. So being "real" you have to factor that into the equation

[sillyrbbt_11]

did you just say outside of making 2 nba finals (winning 1 and on pace to win another) what has he done?

[Samurai Swoosh]

I can't really agree. If you take his 2 finals appearances he had Shaq and Lebron.
So?

Shaq was clearly the inferior player.

As for LeBron, they both have taken turns being the "leader" by committee.

There is no clear sidekick in the LeBron / Wade situation.

If you can make an argument either way for either player being the leader, then quite simply there is no true #1 on said team.

Thats why LeBron came to Miami. He told Wade back in 2008, who then in turn told Riley with his inside information that LeBron sometimes doesn't want to be the "leader" ... thats why he went down there, bro.


Outside of that what really had he done? The Heat have been terrible.
You act like that's all Wade's fault. They were clearing cap room for 2010. Their next best player was a rookie Michael Beasley. Are you kidding me?

Even then Wade was ballin' and did the best he could given the circumstances.

What did Kobe do without a true legit All Star number 2 option?

1st round exits, just like Wade. So ... And we all rank him easily as the 2nd best SG EVER.

The only SG I have seen take a team deep into the playoffs without a consistent All Star caliber #2 option is the guy in my avatar.

The only other player I've seen dominate and drag a team deep in the playoffs without a legit #2 is LeBron James.

Wade and James playing together is more a detriment to James' resume than it is to Wades. Especially considering LeBron came down to join him, Wade seems to be more clutch in pressure situations and enviorments, etc

[Gotterdammerung]

did you just say outside of making 2 nba finals (winning 1 and on pace to win another) what has he done?

Since ISH is not famous for having members whose first language is obviously English, my ranking doesn't mean Wade is 10th or something. If he stopped playing after this finals I might rank him 4th or 5th. But he may move up after this year or down. :hammerhead:

[BlackJoker23]

Since ISH is not famous for having members whose first language is obviously English, my ranking doesn't mean Wade is 10th or something. If he stopped playing after this finals I might rank him 4th or 5th. But he may move up after this year or down. :hammerhead:
how the hell is he going to move down after this year? you think he's going to choke or something in the next few games?

[branslowski]

Has Kobe ever had a playoff run as good as Wade's having right now?

notsureifserious...

[AirTupac]

Oh come the **** on. Wade isn't near Kobe and Jordan in the all time SG rankings. Give me a break.

[sic]

. But he may move up after this year or down. :hammerhead:


With a few more games remaining this season, Wade may move down. You sure are a genius. :roll:

[brownmamba00]

Has Kobe ever had a playoff run as good as Wade's having right now?
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Ne 1]

Oh come the **** on. Wade isn't near Kobe and Jordan in the all time SG rankings. Give me a break.

Wade is just the flavor of the day right now.

Jordan and Kobe are clearly on another level than Wade when you look at their body of work, peak play, overall career number, championships and awards/records/accomplishments, longevity etc.

[Gotterdammerung]

how the hell is he going to move down after this year? you think he's going to choke or something in the next few games?
Ah I meant his career. Major brainfart there. :facepalm

And another one for the road. :facepalm
:hammerhead:

[Gotterdammerung]

With a few more games remaining this season, Wade may move down. You sure are a genius. :roll:
A sure sign I've been here way too long. :rolleyes:

[branslowski]

:roll:

Wade is averaging 25/7/4 on 57 TS%. Kobe's never played that well in the playoffs now?

29/7/6 on 56 TS% + championship in 2001 (in the toughest defensive era). 30/6/6 on 58 TS% + finals in 2008. 30/5/6 on 56 TS% + championshop in 2009 (only MJ, Hakeem, Shaq, KAJ have averaged 30+ ppg in the playoffs on route to a championship). 29/6/6 on 57 TS% + championship last year.

Cools stats and facts, but I'm starting to find out that a high % of this board actually didn't watch Kobe during the early 00's...Or even remember's shit before this year....It's starting to get pathetic. I remember when Wade had like 9 40pt games in that 09' season...And some dumbass was like "Kobe can only dream of being this dominant in scoring"....He didn't realize Kobe scored over 40pts in one season atleast 18-20+ times....He's even avg 40pts for a f*cking month.

These Kobe haters are reaching and most of them are showing they never really watched Kobe....If they watched 02' Kobe (Avg 30ppg 7reb 6ast) they wouldn't be going super crazy over Wade right now....Cause if you seen Kobe on BOTH ends that year, you would realize this is the Best 2 guard since Jordan. Oh, and that year was when you could still hand-check and Zone defense was allowed.

[f0und]

in all of kobe's 15 seasons, his career high for a season is .467. that is just turrible.

[Ne 1]

in all of kobe's 15 seasons, his career high for a season is .467. that is just turrible.

How is that terrible?

[Samurai Swoosh]

These Kobe haters are reaching and most of them are showing they never really watched Kobe....If they watched 02' Kobe (Avg 30ppg 7reb 6ast) they wouldn't be going super crazy over Wade right now....Cause if you seen Kobe on BOTH ends that year, you would realize this is the Best 2 guard since Jordan. Oh, and that year was when you could still hand-check and Zone defense was allowed.
IMO still to this day, Kobe's best season. And it was actually '03. The physique he had that year allowed him to attack the rim and finish consistently, as well as stroke the long ball from deep. And he was a monster in the last of the hand check era. You also have to factor in like the first two months of the season he wasn't averaging close to 30 ppg. People saw what T-Mac was doing, started calling him the best 2 guard in the game ... and then Bryant took it to another level. Especially defensively. I remember that year McGrady was killing the Lakers int he 1st half ... then Bryant switched on him in the 2nd half, and I want to say he got shut out. And McGrady was the most lethal offensive weapon outside of Bryant himself. So ... that's telling you something. He was playing like a mad man. Both offensively and defensively. He was EL SUPER BEASTO that year.

It's ashame that upper body mass he gained which allowed him to attack and finish at the rim strong, also gave him his first in a many long line of subsequent knee issues. People HAVE to keep that in mind. If Bryant would've been able to build on that 2003 campaign, keep the same phsyique and didn't have the Colorado incident that summer. We could've seen an even better resume. And even better ball player. Such a shame ...

42 points @ the HALF on prime Jerry Stackhouse v.s. Jordan's Wizards

SMH ...

THAT Kobe Bryant could challenge Jordan. That's also when Jordan fans started really taking notice, and started to be frightened with the possibilities.

:(

[f0und]

How is that terrible?


are you serious? i dont know whether i should explain it to you, or not even bother cuz you're too ****ing stupid to see it in the first place.

[branslowski]

IMO still to this day, Kobe's best season. And it was actually '03. The physique he had that year allowed him to attack the rim and finish consistently, as well as stroke the long ball from deep. And he was a monster in the last of the hand check era. You also have to factor in like the first two months of the season he wasn't averaging close to 30 ppg. People saw what T-Mac was doing, started calling him the best 2 guard in the game ... and then Bryant took it to another level. Especially defensively. I remember that year McGrady was killing the Lakers int he 1st half ... then Bryant switched on him in the 2nd half, and I want to say he got shut out. And McGrady was the most lethal offensive weapon outside of Bryant himself. So ... that's telling you something. He was playing like a mad man. Both offensively and defensively. He was EL SUPER BEASTO that year.

It's ashame that upper body mass he gained which allowed him to attack and finish at the rim strong, also gave him his first in a many long line of subsequent knee issues. People HAVE to keep that in mind. If Bryant would've been able to build on that 2003 campaign, keep the same phsyique and didn't have the Colorado incident that summer. We could've seen an even better resume. And even better ball player. Such a shame ...

42 points @ the HALF on prime Jerry Stackhouse v.s. Jordan's Wizards

SMH ...

THAT Kobe Bryant could challenge Jordan.

:(

Agreed.

Also, I always use the year in which the season started....My mistake I guess...02-03 season.

And let any player today drop 42at the half...Ppl on this board would lose their f*cking minds....But scoring like this was the norm for the great Kobe Bryant.

[Ne 1]

are you serious? i dont know whether i should explain it to you, or not even bother cuz you're too ****ing stupid to see it in the first place.

I just wanna know your explication for why that's so horrible for a guard?

[branslowski]

2003 - Averaged 30ppg 7reb 6ast during Reg. Season. An Historic Type run of 9 consecutive 40pt games, and averaged 40.6ppg during entire month of Feb. NBA All-Star, All-NBA 1st Team, All-Defensive 1st Team. Lost in the Semi's vs the Spurs. Averaged 32.1ppg 5reb 5ast during playoffs.

Yet these n!ggas got hyped when Bron and Wade dropped 40pts 9 TOTAL times in the regular season in 09'...:roll: :roll: :roll:

[f0und]

I just wanna know your explication for why that's so horrible for a guard?

its not horrible for a guard. its horrible for a guard that regularly gets compared to MJ. someone that is talked about as having an endless repetoire of moves, the greatest skillset ever, insanely high bball iq, ruthless scoring prowess, etc. of course i dont think he has all that. he's got some of it to a degree, but if you listen to the media and some of his ******ging fans, youd think he's this unstoppable scoring machine.

.467 as a career high is not good for someone that gets this much praise. with all that praise, youd think he'd have at least a couple of seasons of over 50%, but he's never even cracked 47% ONCE.

45% is average for a guard. kobe shoots 45% for his career.

[caliman]

A lot of people do and he's hot on MJ's heels.

:roll: :oldlol: :roll: :oldlol:


No one but Wade's family and John Hollinger have him ahead of Kobe and hot on MJ's heels.

[Ne 1]

its not horrible for a guard. its horrible for someone that gets compared to MJ. someone that is talked about as having an endless repetoire of moves, the greatest skillset ever, insanely high bball iq, ruthless scoring prowess, etc. of course i dont think he has all that. he's got some of it to a degree, but if you listen to the media and some of his ******ging fans, youd think he's this unstoppable scoring machine.

.467 as a career high is not good for someone that gets this much praise. with all that praise, youd think he'd have at least a couple of seasons of over 50%, but he's haver even cracked 47% ONCE.

45% is average for a guard. kobe shoots 45% for his career.

Of course everything always comes back to Jordan with Kobe.

:violin:

[Samurai Swoosh]

45% is average for a guard. kobe shoots 45% for his career.
I guarantee you the average NBA guard does not shoot 45%, especially not ones who shoot 20 - 25 times a game.

Seriously, stop.

Is Bryant as effecient as LeBron, Wade, or especially Jordan?

No. It's because he doesn't get to the basket and finish near as strong as those guys.

That's why. That's also why their FG % is better. To act like Kobe is a bad shooter is beyond ridiculous. Especially if you watch the games, and see those shots in context. Kobe takes some absolutely ridiculous shots. Bad basketball IQ at times? Sure. He's as smart of a player as anyone, he just has a strong flair for the dramatic.

[f0und]

I guarantee you the average NBA guard does not shoot 45%, especially not ones who shoot 20 - 25 times a game.

Seriously, stop.

Is Bryant as effecient as LeBron, Wade, or especially Jordan?

No. It's because he doesn't get to the basket and finish near as strong as those guys.

That's why. That's also why their FG % is better. To act like Kobe is a bad shooter is beyond ridiculous. Especially if you watch the games, and see those shots in context. Kobe takes some absolutely ridiculous shots. Bad basketball IQ at times? Sure. He's as smart of a player as anyone, he just has a strong flair for the dramatic.

lol, so we're just gonna excuse his bad bball iq and inability to set himself up for high pct shots? lol ok

[Samurai Swoosh]

lol, so we're just gonna excuse his bad bball iq and inability to set himself up for high pct shots? lol ok
Where am I excusing it? Honestly, what point are you even trying to make? "Kobe sucks"? Is that it ...

Because no sane person would say "Kobe sucks" or "Kobe can't shoot it" ...

I'm being honest about the situation. He's 2nd best SG of all-time, Wade has the ability to surpass him.

Just saying it's clear as day Kobe can shoot. He's a better shooter than LeBron and Wade. Does it make him as an effective basketball player? No.

Cause those guys can get to the rim and finish with consistency. No one is "excusing" anything. I'm just giving you analysis. He's a very smart player. He isn't a low IQ bball player. Kobe's achilles heel his whole career is his need to prove. But he goes about proving how great of a player he is in the wrong ways. Showing us he can hit difficult shots at the expense of his FG% is one of those mistakes.

[Ne 1]

I guarantee you the average NBA guard does not shoot 45%, especially not ones who shoot 20 - 25 times a game.

Seriously, stop.




It is. I can't even think of any other top SG besides Wade that shoots above 45% in the current league.

Kobe has a lower FG% than Wade because he mainly shoots 3's and shots from 18 ft and beyond, while Wade attacks the basket most of the time and mainly gets his points in the paint from dunks and layups.

Chris Paul has a better FG% than Kobe, but does that make him a better player? No. Yes FG% is important to an extent, but it shouldn't be the main reason to why someone is better than someone.

[Ne 1]

lol, so we're just gonna excuse his bad bball iq and inability to set himself up for high pct shots? lol ok

:oldlol: Poor Wade. Can't even shoot past 15 feet.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Chris Paul has a better FG% than Kobe, but does that make him a better player? No.
Right now CP3 is absolutely a better player than Kobe though.

Just FYI before someone else says it.

[Samurai Swoosh]

:oldlol: Poor Wade. Can't even shoot past 15 feet.
See why go to extremes? It makes Kobe fans look bad, bro. The same way that kid is off his rocker insinuating Kobe's not a good shooter, you look just as idiotic saying Wade can't shoot past 15 feet. People who say LeBrick or Wade can't shoot, they are above average shooters. Not as good as Kobe, but seriously ... they can shoot. Don't get crazy.

[Ne 1]

See why go to extremes? It makes Kobe fans look bad, bro. The same way that kid is off his rocker insinuating Kobe's not a good shooter, you look just as idiotic saying Wade can't shoot past 15 feet. People who say LeBrick or Wade can't shoot, they are above average shooters. Not as good as Kobe, but seriously ... they can shoot. Don't get crazy.

Just trolling trolls is all.

[Kellogs4toniee]

Cools stats and facts, but I'm starting to find out that a high % of this board actually didn't watch Kobe during the early 00's...Or even remember's shit before this year....It's starting to get pathetic. I remember when Wade had like 9 40pt games in that 09' season...And some dumbass was like "Kobe can only dream of being this dominant in scoring"....He didn't realize Kobe scored over 40pts in one season atleast 18-20+ times....He's even avg 40pts for a f*cking month.

These Kobe haters are reaching and most of them are showing they never really watched Kobe....If they watched 02' Kobe (Avg 30ppg 7reb 6ast) they wouldn't be going super crazy over Wade right now....Cause if you seen Kobe on BOTH ends that year, you would realize this is the Best 2 guard since Jordan. Oh, and that year was when you could still hand-check and Zone defense was allowed.

Welcome to ISH. 10 years down the road, some other great SF or SG will be hot and an in-flow of 20 trolls will enter ISH and ignore everything that players like Lebron and Wade are doing today.

[Boston C's]

A lot of people do and he's hot on MJ's heels.

nobody in the right mind who knows anythin about basketball does... and no wade is not even close to mj

[catch24]

No way 02-03 was his best year. When you factor in playoffs it's gotta be between '01, '06, and '08...I'd go with '06 because I've never seen someone beat teams single handedly sans prime Shaq (and before him, Jordan).

[Samurai Swoosh]

No way 02-03 was his best year. When you factor in playoffs it's gotta be between '01, '06, and '08...I'd go with '06 because I've never seen someone beat teams single handedly sans prime Shaq (and before him, Jordan).
Bro ... 2002 - 2003 was still a physical NBA. There was still great big men inside who could defend the paint. And Shaq really was on the decline in 2002 - 2003. It felt like it was Kobe's team for the majority of the year. 2002 - 2003 Laker's roster apart from Shaq and Kobe had ROTTED to epic proportions. Mitch probably thought "eff it, I got the two best players in the game, why do I need anyone else of value?" ... I mean seriously. Slava Mevedenko was their starting PF.

: |

Shaq was fat and lazy as I may have ever seen him that season. Such a pathetic waste of talent and potential that year. 2002 - 2003 Kobe played beastly defense. Better defense than 2006 and 2008 by far and away. 2006 he played worse defense than he did in 2008, even though he was two years older because he was burdened with such a HUGE offensive load in 2006. 2002 - 2003 Kobe didn't shoot just jumpers either. I mean Kobe got to the basket in 2006, but in 2003 he could practically do it at will. And finish STRONG, with authority because of his size.

2002 - 2003 easily is his best season. He was a legit MVP candidate (I felt he should've won) and he was basically competing against a prime Shaq, prime Duncan, prime Kidd and prime Garnett for the award.

Take a second to think about that, my dude ...

Pree Knee Injury 2002 - 2003 Kobe was ridiculous.

[branslowski]

No way 02-03 was his best year. When you factor in playoffs it's gotta be between '01, '06, and '08...I'd go with '06 because I've never seen someone beat teams single handedly sans prime Shaq (and before him, Jordan).

You can't really go wrong with any of those...I choose 02-03 because his All-Round impact on games...Not only Sick ass scoring with the 40ppg avg for a month, and the 9 straight 40pt games exc...But the way he rebouned well damn near every game and his sick playmaking ability...Along with his athletic skills on the defensive end...Not to mention this was the time where you could still hand-check AND use Zone defense.

06' was Amazing though, no doubt....The greatest Scoring season I have ever witnessed.

[branslowski]

Bro ... 2002 - 2003 was still a physical NBA. There was still great big men inside who could defend the paint. And Shaq really was on the decline in 2002 - 2003. It felt like it was Kobe's team for the majority of the year. 2002 - 2003 Laker's roster apart from Shaq and Kobe had ROTTED to epic proportions. Mitch probably thought "eff it, I got the two best players in the game, why do I need anyone else of value?" ... I mean seriously. Slava Mevedenko was their starting PF.

: |

Shaq was fat and lazy as I may have ever seen him that season. Such a pathetic waste of talent and potential that year. 2002 - 2003 Kobe played beastly defense. Better defense than 2006 and 2008 by far and away. 2006 he played worse defense than he did in 2008, even though he was two years older because he was burdened with such a HUGE offensive load in 2006. 2002 - 2003 Kobe didn't shoot just jumpers either. I mean Kobe got to the basket in 2006, but in 2003 he could practically do it at will. And finish STRONG, with authority because of his size.

2002 - 2003 easily is his best season. He was a legit MVP candidate (I felt he should've won) and he was basically competing against a prime Shaq, prime Duncan, prime Kidd and prime Garnett for the award.

Take a second to think about that, my dude ...

Pree Knee Injury 2002 - 2003 Kobe was ridiculous.

Basically.:applause:

[DirtySanchez]

Here is my NO AGENDA list

1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. West
4. George Gervin
5. Wade
6. Iverson
7. Clyde Drexler
8. Reggie Miller
9. Pistol Pete
10. Joe Dumars


Anyone changing the first three spots knows nothing about b-ball period.

[tpols]

2002 - 2003 easily is his best season. He was a legit MVP candidate (I felt he should've won) and he was basically competing against a prime Shaq, prime Duncan, prime Kidd and prime Garnett for the award.

I actually made a thread about this a few weeks ago.. when you look at the league right now, there 'top talent' isn't nearly as good as it was 6-8 years ago.

Who are the best players in the league right now in their primes?
Wade?
Lebron?
Dwight?
Durant[sort of]?
Deron Williams?
CP3[although he isnt even as good as a couple years ago]?

Now look at the league back in the day:
Prime Kidd
Prime Shaq
Prime Duncan
Prime Kobe
Prime Garnett
Shit even prime webber could be put on this list.

Does the current core we are witnessing really even compare to that core?

[catch24]

Bro ... 2002 - 2003 was still a physical NBA. There was still great big men inside who could defend the paint. And Shaq really was on the decline in 2002 - 2003. It felt like it was Kobe's team for the majority of the year. 2002 - 2003 Laker's roster apart from Shaq and Kobe had ROTTED to epic proportions. Mitch probably thought "eff it, I got the two best players in the game, why do I need anyone else of value?" ... I mean seriously. Slava Mevedenko was their starting PF.

Don't get me wrong, his '03 year was exceptional, and like you said... the league still allowed 'hand-checking', but even to this day I feel it's overrated and completely taken out of context by these posters who still think we're in the 90's. Did you see the month of January in '06? 40+ppg on 47% shooting... Are you kidding me? Nevermind the fact he dropped 81 points, outscored an NBA Finalist in 3 quarters BY HIMSELF, and dropped 50 in a close out game vs Phoenix. 35 ppg for a season is Jordan/Wilt type ish no matter how you slice it.

You talk about Slava, what about Kwame f'ing Brown? Smush Parker and Brian Cook. Are those clowns even in the league anymore???? :roll:

[Samurai Swoosh]

I actually made a thread about this a few weeks ago.. when you look at the league right now, there 'top talent' isn't nearly as good as it was 6-8 years ago.

Who are the best players in the league right now in their primes?
Wade?
Lebron?
Dwight?
Durant[sort of]?
Deron Williams?
Really you're just going to disrespect my boy Derrick Rose, and CP3 like that?

:oldlol:

And to answer your question .. no.

[catch24]

You can't really go wrong with any of those...I choose 02-03 because his All-Round impact on games...Not only Sick ass scoring with the 40ppg avg for a month, and the 9 straight 40pt games exc...But the way he rebouned well damn near every game and his sick playmaking ability...Along with his athletic skills on the defensive end...Not to mention this was the time where you could still hand-check AND use Zone defense.

I thought his season was amazing, but he played below his standards in the postseason. That's what killed it for me. '01, '06 and '08 dude was spectacular in both the regular and posteason.

[tpols]

Really you're just going to disrespect my boy Derrick Rose, and CP3 like that?

:oldlol:

And to answer your question .. no.
I added CP3.. and derrick rose doesn't even get a mention right now. First off he's not even in his prime right now, and comparing him to any of the guys I listed from the early 2000s is a joke. :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

You can't really go wrong with any of those...I choose 02-03 because his All-Round impact on games...Not only Sick ass scoring with the 40ppg avg for a month, and the 9 straight 40pt games exc...But the way he rebouned well damn near every game and his sick playmaking ability...Along with his athletic skills on the defensive end...Not to mention this was the time where you could still hand-check AND use Zone defense.

06' was Amazing though, no doubt....The greatest Scoring season I have ever witnessed.

I would go with 2006 as his peak year. 2003 has it's merit though if you consider that Kobe was a superior defensive player back in '03 than '06.

[Boston C's]

Here is my NO AGENDA list

1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. West
4. George Gervin
5. Wade
6. Iverson
7. Clyde Drexler
8. Reggie Miller
9. Pistol Pete
10. Joe Dumars


Anyone changing the first three spots knows nothing about b-ball period.

I'm with you on the top 3 the only thing i disagree with is having reggie up there with no ray ray... if you have reggie there then ray should be there too because in my opinion at least hes everything reggie was with a better all around game (not as clutch but thats a different story)

[Samurai Swoosh]

Don't get me wrong, his '03 year was exceptional, and like you said... the league still allowed 'hand-checking', but even to this day I feel it's overrated and completely taken out of context by these posters who still think we're in the 90's. Did you see the month of January in '06? 40+ppg on 47% shooting... Are you kidding me? Nevermind the fact he dropped 81 points, outscored an NBA Finalist in 3 quarters BY HIMSELF, and dropped 50 in a close out game vs Phoenix. 35 ppg for a season is Jordan/Wilt type ish no matter how you slice it.
Oh it was an explosive scoring year no doubt. Same goes for 2007.

But dude ... Kobe was putting up 30 ppg with a player on his team who was averaging like 26 ppg himself.

Imagine 2002 - 2003 pree knee injury, super athletic, physically STRONG Kobe on a team like the 2006 Lakers.

Tell that guy to go out and score, in 2006's rules system no less with no hand check.

And he could probably eclipse 35 ppg, on better effeciency.

Point is 2002 - 2003 Kobe didn't just score (as if 30 ppg is anything to sneeze @)

He impacted the game in more ways than he did in any subsequent year following that season, unfortunately. And was never able to replicate it. The combonation of the knee issues, shoulder issues, rape trial, mental anguish, PJ leaving, PJ coming back ... (not making excuses, just saying)

I don't think we ever got to see the player he could've been.

LeBron and Wade are both lucky to have not have had a major injury to their knees. LeBron really hasn't sustained ANY kind of major injury in his career, yet. Hopefully, never.


You talk about Slava, what about Kwame f'ing Brown? Smush Parker and Brian Cook. Are those clowns even in the league anymore???? :roll:
Slava is worse than Kwame Brown.

But yea, I know the 2006 and 2007 Lakers roster was the pits.

To put it in perspective though, the Lakers in 2003 were playing much more talented teams. And had the target on their back of being 3x champs, going for a 4th. That's tough stuff. Something the Jordan Bulls never even got a stab at doing.

So in comparison to the rosters they were facing, being expected to be the champions they were the three previous seasons, and with Shaq being lazy as hell. The roster of the 2003 is equally bad as 2006 and 2007 in that prism.

2006 and 2007 Lakers weren't expected to win rings.

[Samurai Swoosh]

I added CP3.. and derrick rose doesn't even get a mention right now. First off he's not even in his prime right now, and comparing him to any of the guys I listed from the early 2000s is a joke. :oldlol:
I don't mean in comparison to the early 2000's ... I meant not mentioning him with the players of NOW. And giving Deron the nod over him

SMH ...

Rose spanked him 2x's this season.

[tpols]

I don't mean in comparison to the early 2000's ... I meant not mentioning him with the players of NOW. And giving Deron the nod over him

SMH ...

Rose spanked him 2x's this season.
I'm a Nets fan bro.. need to rep deron.:cheers:

[Samurai Swoosh]

I thought his season was amazing, but he played below his standards in the postseason. That's what killed it for me. '01, '06 and '08 dude was spectacular in both the regular and posteason.
He averaged 32 / 6 / 5 in the 2003 playoffs. He increased his scoring, and still played elite defense. How is that BELOW standards?

He shot a lower FG% but also faced much tougher defenses.

2003 Spurs, Wolves >>> 2006 Suns, 2007 Suns, 2008 Nuggets, 2008 Jazz

[catch24]

Agree to disagree, Swoosh. I value his good production, insane scoring impact, and impressive postseason play (2006) more than his great scoring, great production and mediocre (by his standards) postseason play (2003).


unfortunately - of the knee issues, shoulder issues, rape trial, mental anguish, PJ leaving, PJ coming back ... (not making excuses, just saying)

Fortunately for Wade/LeBron, they didn't have to go up against the '01 and '03 versions of Kobe (who's first step and overall combination of speed/skill was unreal). They got to see '06-Kobe but by then, he had come off knee injuries, and those dudes were speed demons coming into the league (they've slowed down considerably since).

[Samurai Swoosh]

I'm a Nets fan bro.. need to rep deron.:cheers:
Clearly ...

Rose d1cked him down in both their meetings. The one in Utah and in New Jersey.

:oldlol:

[tpols]

Clearly ...

Rose d1cked him down in both their meetings. The one in Utah and in New Jersey.

:oldlol:
Dude he was hurt for the one in NJ. His hand was fvcked up.. he had been shooting terribly during his whole stint with the nets.

And didn't we beat you guys in that meeting?:oldlol:

[Samurai Swoosh]

And didn't we beat you guys in that meeting?:oldlol:
Yes, I think ...

[ShaqAttack3234]

Bro ... 2002 - 2003 was still a physical NBA. There was still great big men inside who could defend the paint. And Shaq really was on the decline in 2002 - 2003. It felt like it was Kobe's team for the majority of the year. 2002 - 2003 Laker's roster apart from Shaq and Kobe had ROTTED to epic proportions. Mitch probably thought "eff it, I got the two best players in the game, why do I need anyone else of value?" ... I mean seriously. Slava Mevedenko was their starting PF.

: |

Shaq was fat and lazy as I may have ever seen him that season. Such a pathetic waste of talent and potential that year. 2002 - 2003 Kobe played beastly defense. Better defense than 2006 and 2008 by far and away. 2006 he played worse defense than he did in 2008, even though he was two years older because he was burdened with such a HUGE offensive load in 2006. 2002 - 2003 Kobe didn't shoot just jumpers either. I mean Kobe got to the basket in 2006, but in 2003 he could practically do it at will. And finish STRONG, with authority because of his size.

2002 - 2003 easily is his best season. He was a legit MVP candidate (I felt he should've won) and he was basically competing against a prime Shaq, prime Duncan, prime Kidd and prime Garnett for the award.

Take a second to think about that, my dude ...

Pree Knee Injury 2002 - 2003 Kobe was ridiculous.

Absolutely not, Kobe's defense in 2003 gets overrated due to the numbers when in reality, he's definitely had better defensive seasons. His 2008 season was better defensively and his 2006 season was pretty similar to 2003 in terms of effectiveness defensively.

And come on, MVP in 2003? He played like it starting around January, but 50 wins wasn't going to get it done, particularly with the team going 5-10 without Shaq and struggling for the first month or so that he was back.

Kobe was better from 2006-2008. As far as individual game, 2003 Kobe was up there, but his playoff performance was a big let down compared to the previous 2 seasons and certainly pales in comparison to what he did from 2008-2010 in the playoffs.

And for all your criticism of Shaq, he still averaged 28/11/3 with 2.4 bpg on 57% shooting/60 TS% and was easily the Lakers best player in the playoffs. When you only win 50 games playing with a guy like that, you're not winning MVP over Duncan who won 60, KG who had a mindblowing season(23/13/6 with elite defense while winning 51 with less talent around him than Kobe), or T-Mac(32/7/6 on better efficiency than Kobe and an absolutely pathetic supporting cast, maybe the worst we've seen a superstar drag to the playoffs the last decade or so).

[ThaSwagg3r]

Here is my NO AGENDA list

1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. West
4. George Gervin
5. Wade
6. Iverson
7. Clyde Drexler
8. Reggie Miller
9. Pistol Pete
10. Joe Dumars


Anyone changing the first three spots knows nothing about b-ball period.
lol @ Gervin being above Wade and Iverson being above Drexler. I am also laughing that you don't even Ray Allen up there but you have Pistol Pete and Reggie Miller instead. :facepalm

You fail.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Absolutely not, Kobe's defense in 2003 gets overrated due to the numbers when in reality, he's definitely had better defensive seasons. His 2008 season was better defensively and his 2006 season was pretty similar to 2003 in terms of effectiveness defensively.

And come on, MVP in 2003? He played like it starting around January, but 50 wins wasn't going to get it done, particularly with the team going 5-10 without Shaq and struggling for the first month or so that he was back.

Kobe was better from 2006-2008. As far as individual game, 2003 Kobe was up there, but his playoff performance was a big let down compared to the previous 2 seasons and certainly pales in comparison to what he did from 2008-2010 in the playoffs.

And for all your criticism of Shaq, he still averaged 28/11/3 with 2.4 bpg on 57% shooting/60 TS% and was easily the Lakers best player in the playoffs. When you only win 50 games playing with a guy like that, you're not winning MVP over Duncan who won 60, KG who had a mindblowing season(23/13/6 with elite defense while winning 51 with less talent around him than Kobe), or T-Mac(32/7/6 on better efficiency than Kobe and an absolutely pathetic supporting cast, maybe the worst we've seen a superstar drag to the playoffs the last decade or so).
Let's be honest, you're hating on the 2003 season because it diminishes a closer to prime Shaq.

Be honest bro ... child please. Trying to tell me Kobe played superior defense in 2006 and 2008 than in 2003.

Out of your damn mind, dude.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Let's be honest, you're hating on the 2003 season because it diminishes a closer to prime Shaq.

Be honest bro ... child please. Trying to tell me Kobe played superior defense in 2006 and 2008 than in 2003.

Out of your damn mind, dude.

Not at all, these are just facts. Phil Jackson also said the same thing about his defense then saying that he got the all-defensive first team due to the numbers when in reality voters overlooked him gambling a lot which often hurt the team's defense. Kobe was great defensively during the 3peat and once again in 2008, but whenever he tended to go into the ultra high scoring mode, his defense slipped, and understandably so.

And I said his 2006 season was about even in terms of defense, but his 2008 season was superior, no question in my mind and superior in general from an all around standpoint.

:oldlol: at Kobe deserving MVP in 2003.

[Samurai Swoosh]

And I said his 2006 season was about even in terms of defense, but his 2008 season was superior, no question in my mind and superior in general from an all around standpoint.
Not even close ...

Plus the 2003 Wolves and 2003 Spurs >>> better than every team Kobe and the Lakers faces in 2008 with the exception of the Celtics.


:oldlol: at Kobe deserving MVP in 2003.
:oldlol: @ acting like he can't be mentioned with the names that were in the running that season for the award.

:roll: @ acting like a legit case can't be made

REALLY LMAO @ the true reason you're defensive. Shaq getting a percieved slight.

This coming from the guy who thought Shaq was better than Wade on the Heat. Clearly you're agenda driven in regards to anything Shaq related.

Fat lazy ass was probably the biggest reason the Lakers were unsuccessful in 2003.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Not even close ...

Plus the 2003 Wolves and 2003 Spurs >>> better than every team Kobe and the Lakers faces in 2008 with the exception of the Celtics.

'03 Wolves? :oldlol: That was KG, Wally and who else? Rasho? Troy Hudson? You're telling me that team was better than the 2008 Spurs who were the defending champs?


:oldlol: @ acting like he can't be mentioned with the names that were in the running that season for the award.

:roll: @ acting like a legit case can't be made

It can't. KG won more games with less, Duncan won 60 and was the best player in the league and T-Mac was better individually and had to carry his team more.


REALLY LMAO @ the true reason you're defensive. Shaq getting a percieved slight.

This coming from the guy who thought Shaq was better than Wade on the Heat. Clearly you're agenda driven in regards to anything Shaq related.

Fat lazy ass was probably the biggest reason the Lakers were unsuccessful in 2003.

Shaq was better than Wade his first season with Miami until he got injured late in the season, a lot of people who aren't Shaq fans would agree.

As far as the Lakers not winning in 2003....how about Kobe jacking up 27 shots per game vs San Antonio while shooting inefficiently(meanwhile Shaq was getting about 9 fewer shots and scoring very efficiently), Kobe as a guard averaging the same amount of assists as Shaq that series and Kobe also averaging 4.5 turnovers to just 3.7 assists? Oh, and Kobe was nowhere to be found in that elimination game(20 pts, 2 rbs, 6 asts, 7 turnovers, 9/19 FG) while Shaq had 31/10/3/3.

:oldlol: at the ridiculous cop out that I formed this opinion because Kobe's season diminishes Shaq. Clearly your way of trying to make people not notice that you can't counter one of my points. Yeah and I've constantly said Kobe was the second best player in the 2001 playoffs, sounds like someone who has to diminish Kobe to prop up Shaq. :rolleyes:

[ThaSwagg3r]

:roll: @ acting like a legit case can't be made

REALLY LMAO @ the true reason you're defensive. Shaq getting a percieved slight.

This coming from the guy who thought Shaq was better than Wade on the Heat. Clearly you're agenda driven in regards to anything Shaq related.

Fat lazy ass was probably the biggest reason the Lakers were unsuccessful in 2003.
You really think Kobe should have won the MVP award over Duncan in 2003? :facepalm

Then again this doesn't surprise me because for whatever reason you also think Kobe should have won the award in 2007. :facepalm

[atljonesbro]

lol @ Gervin being above Wade and Iverson being above Drexler. I am also laughing that you don't even Ray Allen up there but you have Pistol Pete and Reggie Miller instead. :facepalm

You fail.
What arguement does Drexler have over Wade? Better stats? no More championships? no More accolades? no. Intangibles? no

LOL at you thinking Drexler is better than Wade when he has no arguments at all.

[Gotterdammerung]

And yet another decent thread devolves into a pissing match between agenda-driven posters. :facepalm

[Jotaro Durant]

1) Jordan



2) Kobe








3) West



4) Wade

[ThaSwagg3r]

What arguement does Drexler have over Wade? Better stats? no More championships? no More accolades? no. Intangibles? no

LOL at you thinking Drexler is better than Wade when he has no arguments at all.
I didn't argue that Drexler should be above Wade. I said Drexler should be above Iverson. Improve your reading comprehension, k thanks.

[atljonesbro]

I didn't argue that Drexler should be above Wade. I said Drexler should be above Iverson. Improve your reading comprehension, k thanks.
That to is arguable lol. Iverson was much better statistically both never won a championship, and both had many accolades. Thats defentally not an LOL

[ThaSwagg3r]

That to is arguable lol. Iverson was much better statistically both never won a championship, and both had many accolades. Thats defentally not an LOL
How was he much better statistically? He scored and averaged more points than he did, and that is really about it. I didn't realize that was the only stat that mattered. :confusedshrug:

[atljonesbro]

How was he much better statistically? He scored and averaged more points than he did, and that is really about it. I didn't realize that was the only stat that mattered. :confusedshrug:
Points, Assists, Steals, 2 less RPG and he was only 6 foot. Drexler shot at a higher percentage.

So yes, iverson was much better statistically

[Samurai Swoosh]

You really think Kobe should have won the MVP award over Duncan in 2003? :facepalm
Apparently I can't have an opinion.

To ShaqAttack too ... apparently Kobe wasn't as good all around in 2003 as he was in 2008.

Which is utterly false.

[BlackJoker23]

'03 Wolves? :oldlol: That was KG, Wally and who else? Rasho? Troy Hudson? You're telling me that team was better than the 2008 Spurs who were the defending champs?



It can't. KG won more games with less, Duncan won 60 and was the best player in the league and T-Mac was better individually and had to carry his team more.



Shaq was better than Wade his first season with Miami until he got injured late in the season, a lot of people who aren't Shaq fans would agree.

As far as the Lakers not winning in 2003....how about Kobe jacking up 27 shots per game vs San Antonio while shooting inefficiently(meanwhile Shaq was getting about 9 fewer shots and scoring very efficiently), Kobe as a guard averaging the same amount of assists as Shaq that series and Kobe also averaging 4.5 turnovers to just 3.7 assists? Oh, and Kobe was nowhere to be found in that elimination game(20 pts, 2 rbs, 6 asts, 7 turnovers, 9/19 FG) while Shaq had 31/10/3/3.

:oldlol: at the ridiculous cop out that I formed this opinion because Kobe's season diminishes Shaq. Clearly your way of trying to make people not notice that you can't counter one of my points. Yeah and I've constantly said Kobe was the second best player in the 2001 playoffs, sounds like someone who has to diminish Kobe to prop up Shaq. :rolleyes:
damn man, you just ripped him a new one.

[Juges8932]

Jordan




Bryant
Wade



West
Iverson
Drexler

[LBJWADE]

Here is my NO AGENDA list

1. Jordan
2. Kobe
3. West
4. George Gervin
5. Wade
6. Iverson
7. Clyde Drexler
8. Reggie Miller
9. Pistol Pete
10. Joe Dumars


Anyone changing the first three spots knows nothing about b-ball period.

I still put Iverson & Miller above Wade.

[PJR]

I still put Iverson & Miller above Wade.

Well then you're a moron.

[Boston C's]

Well then you're a moron.

I think your list is fine except that I would move wade above gervin and find a way to slide ray over reggie somehow while keeping reggie... the 8-10 slots are so hard because there are a lot of SG's that have a case for the spot

[ThaSwagg3r]

Points, Assists, Steals, 2 less RPG and he was only 6 foot. Drexler shot at a higher percentage.

So yes, iverson was much better statistically
I didn't realize .6 less assists and .2 less steals was better than 2.4 less rebounds. :roll: Drexler also turned the ball over less.

And you can say that again, Drexler shot a much higher percentage than Iverson. TS%, eFG%, and FG%.

Anything that requires efficiency = Iverson loses in any argument.

[Dasher]

Clyde Drexler is an NBA champion and led two Blazer teams to The Finals.

[IGOTGAME]

I still put Iverson & Miller above Wade.

there is no argument to put Miller over Wade. You are obviously very young and didn't have a chance to watch a lot of his career. Do some research.

[Ne 1]

there is no argument to put Miller over Wade. You are obviously very young and didn't have a chance to watch a lot of his career. Do some research.

Yeah, Miller wasn't even better than Richmond when they were playing. Dude has become really overrated because of a few memorable clutch plays.

[Kobe24Clutch]

1.Jordan

2.Kobe







The Rest.....

[Boston C's]

1.Jordan

2.Kobe







The Rest.....

come on you can at least finish the top 5 or 10 lol

[Kobe24Clutch]

come on you can at least finish the top 5 or 10 lol
Okay...
1.Jordan

2.Kobe



3.Don't Care
4.Don't Care
5.Don't Care
There.

[Boston C's]

Okay...
1.Jordan

2.Kobe



3.Don't Care
4.Don't Care
5.Don't Care
There.

lmfaoooo nice

[Samurai Swoosh]

Dylan
Dylan
Dylan
Dylan
and Dylan

[Wade3]

1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. Iverson
4. Tony Allen
5. Poor Mans Tony Allen

[Kobe24Clutch]

1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. Iverson
4. Tony Allen
5. Poor Mans Tony Allen
:roll: :rockon:

[zay_24]

1. Kobe
2. Wade
3. Iverson
4. Tony Allen
5. Poor Mans Tony Allen
this

[Boston C's]

1. tony allen
2. dont care
3. dont care
4. dont care
5. dont care

fixed

[ShaqAttack3234]

Apparently I can't have an opinion.

To ShaqAttack too ... apparently Kobe wasn't as good all around in 2003 as he was in 2008.

Which is utterly false.

He was more skilled by that point, he was much better in terms of game management and making his teammates better, and while, he wasn't quite as athletic, he really wasn't far off. The weight loss caused him to regain some explosiveness and he seemed really quick and athletic to me that season, plus he put more effort into playing solid defense(not highlight reel defense) than he had since the 3peat, imo, and of course, he not only maintained his level from the regular season in the playoffs unlike 2003, but stepped his game up from the regular season and had an amazing playoff run.

[Jacks3]

I rank them as such

1) Jordan

2) Bryant
3) Wade

4) West
5) Iverson

LMAO @ certain fans acting like Wade can't catch up or surpass Bryant.

They are lucky Wade didn't win a league MVP in 2006 or 2009, cause he would already have a legit enough resume to compete. If him and James keep stacking chips as a 1a) / 1b) scenario ... Wade could very well supplant Kobe as the #2 SG all-time.

Wade isn't that far behind Bryant, lettuce be real for a second. He's already catching up.
Wade has no chance at catching Bryant. Not only does Kobe have the better prime/peak, but he also KILLS Wade in terms of longevity and accolades/accomplishments. Wade is going to be 30 already next season remember.

[Boston C's]

Wade has no chance at catching Bryant. Not only does Kobe have the better prime/peak, but he also KILLS Wade in terms of longevity and accolades/accomplishments. Wade is going to be 30 already next season remember.

yea im with this I just dont see wade catching kobe... hed have to win titles for the next like 4 yrs just to be up there and by then he'll be 34/35 and who knows if he gets injured again... itll end up being

jordan, kobe wade, west, in the top 4

and in no particular order you have gervin, drexler, allen, dumars, greer, and miller,

to me you could flip miller/dumars with anyone like jones, moncrief, bing, etc

[knightfall88]

Wade has no chance at catching Bryant. Not only does Kobe have the better prime/peak, but he also KILLS Wade in terms of longevity and accolades/accomplishments. Wade is going to be 30 already next season remember.

Jack, you dont have to explain why Wade will never catch Bryant. It's pretty clear why he won't.

[air mamba]

whos on this site 12 year olds lol
no way is wade better all time than kobe or west,
wades not even top 5 yet. he is probably 6 or 7,
if he wins the title, finals mvp or not
he will move into top 5
but hes not touching kobe or west the best he can get is fourth
he is already 30 and hes sorry work ethic is nowhere near to changing his game.
and its too late in 2 years say byebye to the wade you know.
dats what happens when your a 6'3 shooting guard and you think its your job to block big men. eventually youll pay for it.lol!!!!!!!!

[Kobe24Clutch]

Jordan
Wade (soon to be 1b)
Bryant
West
Drexler

:rockon::rockon:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgE2JG1k0Fg
http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/9499/1303512903911.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/204/1303512903911.jpg/)

[ShaqAttack3234]

Wade has no chance at catching Bryant. Not only does Kobe have the better prime/peak, but he also KILLS Wade in terms of longevity and accolades/accomplishments. Wade is going to be 30 already next season remember.

Well said, prime/peak is pretty close, though I still give Kobe the edge there, but I also have a hard time seeing Wade match his longevity and accomplishments. Not that I value MVPs that much, but Kobe did win a well deserved one and could've won another in 2006, while I don't think Wade ever had the best case for MVP, and Kobe has 2 rings and 3 finals appearances as the man and 5 rings/7 finals appearances total, plus 4 truly great playoff runs(2001, 2008, 2009 and 2010) and another very good one(2002). And Wade isn't even that much younger than Kobe.

[Ne 1]

Wade has no chance at catching Bryant. Not only does Kobe have the better prime/peak, but he also KILLS Wade in terms of longevity and accolades/accomplishments. Wade is going to be 30 already next season remember.

Pretty much. The thing is that too many people have a "what have you done for me lately?" attitude. Without the current Finals, no one would even consider Wade against Kobe.

I also don't know how people can so easily put Wade over West. Based on peak play Wade has a case over West, but based on overall career and body of work West has the advantage.

[Jacks3]

Well said, prime/peak is pretty close, though I still give Kobe the edge there, but I also have a hard time seeing Wade match his longevity and accomplishments. Not that I value MVPs that much, but Kobe did win a well deserved one and could've won another in 2006, while I don't think Wade ever had the best case for MVP, and Kobe has 2 rings and 3 finals appearances as the man and 5 rings/7 finals appearances total, plus 4 truly great playoff runs(2001, 2008, 2009 and 2010) and another very good one(2002). And Wade isn't even that much younger than Kobe.
Excellent post. Also, Kobe isn't even done yet! IMO he has still has about 2 more 25/5/5/55% TS/All-NBA 1st or 2nd Team type of seasons left in him.

[MaxFly]

Cools stats and facts, but I'm starting to find out that a high % of this board actually didn't watch Kobe during the early 00's...Or even remember's shit before this year....It's starting to get pathetic. I remember when Wade had like 9 40pt games in that 09' season...And some dumbass was like "Kobe can only dream of being this dominant in scoring"....He didn't realize Kobe scored over 40pts in one season atleast 18-20+ times....He's even avg 40pts for a f*cking month.


Not that it's not possibly someone could have believed these things, but I think we need to distinguish between those who are posting just to stir the pot and those who are legitimately posting out of ignorance. Bryant has had 3 40ppg months. I've got to believe that those who made the statements you are recounting were simply looking to create a little controversy and likely didn't intend to be taken seriously.

[Heat007]

lol at kobestans freaking out because Kobe sits back and chucks tons of shots to get 40pts in a month. sorry, but that's not impressive. A lot of players can do that if they were so selfish playing out of the team concept and shooting 45913857438751 shots every month. Luckily this league is not filled with such irresponsible players and we don't have backyard playground ball.

You want to know what's really impressive?? Try a month of averaging 37 ppg on 57% shooting, and also throwing 11 assists, almost 7 rebounds, 3+ steals, and 1.5 blocks per game.. that's right, Wade

Yeah, that's a real all-around player and not a shot-jacking stat-piler punk like Kobe.. you know , that month actually takes work, real talent to do everything at once... it takes a lot of work to rebound like that WHILE going for all the points, and it takes a player who doesn't ignore the team concept to throw double digit assists, a really smart player, and of course lockdown defense to go with it.... and guess what, that was a month in a year where Wade held his isolation matchups to UNDER 30% shooting...

that's right, it's yet another thing kobe never did in any season in his career.. while Wade has had 3 seasons of holding his matchups to under 30% shooting. and of course, in overall defensive synergy scores Kobe has never had a better score in his career than Wade's 3 best defensive seasons.. Kobe couldn't hold a candle to any of Wade's 3 best defensive seasons.

lol at Kobe ever coming close to 57% shooting in a month on 37 ppg with all those other numbers and the type of defense Wade played that year.. lol because Kobe's totally and utterly incapable of doing that. Kobe is a total a punk, he played a lot less minutes this year and that shot jacking punk STILL LED THE LEAGUE IN SHOT ATTEMPTS !!!! :facepalm

[Laimbeer_Rodman]

1.Air Michael Jordan
2.Dwayne Bryant
3.Kobe Wade
4.Allan Iverson
5.Latrell Sprewell

[Doctor Rivers]

lol at kobestans freaking out because Kobe sits back and chucks tons of shots to get 40pts in a month. sorry, but that's not impressive. A lot of players can do that if they were so selfish playing out of the team concept and shooting 45913857438751 shots every month. Luckily this league is not filled with such irresponsible players and we don't have backyard playground ball.

You want to know what's really impressive?? Try a month of averaging 37 ppg on 57% shooting, and also throwing 11 assists, almost 7 rebounds, 3+ steals, and 1.5 blocks per game.. that's right, Wade

Yeah, that's a real all-around player and not a shot-jacking stat-piler punk like Kobe.. you know , that month actually takes work, real talent to do everything at once... it takes a lot of work to rebound like that WHILE going for all the points, and it takes a player who doesn't ignore the team concept to throw double digit assists, a really smart player, and of course lockdown defense to go with it.... and guess what, that was a month in a year where Wade held his isolation matchups to UNDER 30% shooting...

that's right, it's yet another thing kobe never did in any season in his career.. while Wade has had 3 seasons of holding his matchups to under 30% shooting. and of course, in overall defensive synergy scores Kobe has never had a better score in his career than Wade's 3 best defensive seasons.. Kobe couldn't hold a candle to any of Wade's 3 best defensive seasons.

lol at Kobe ever coming close to 57% shooting in a month on 37 ppg with all those other numbers and the type of defense Wade played that year.. lol because Kobe's totally and utterly incapable of doing that. Kobe is a total a punk, he played a lot less minutes this year and that shot jacking punk STILL LED THE LEAGUE IN SHOT ATTEMPTS !!!! :facepalm

Why are you so angry? Did Kobe do something to you?

[KenneBell]

Well said, prime/peak is pretty close, though I still give Kobe the edge there, but I also have a hard time seeing Wade match his longevity and accomplishments. Not that I value MVPs that much, but Kobe did win a well deserved one and could've won another in 2006, while I don't think Wade ever had the best case for MVP, and Kobe has 2 rings and 3 finals appearances as the man and 5 rings/7 finals appearances total, plus 4 truly great playoff runs(2001, 2008, 2009 and 2010) and another very good one(2002). And Wade isn't even that much younger than Kobe.
I really can't believe people are just dismissing Kobe's career over one season.

Career-wise there's a pretty appreciable gap in accomplishments between the two. Wade is better now and close in peak play but I just don't see him getting that 2nd spot. Anything can happen though...

[Lucifer]

lol at kobestans freaking out because Kobe sits back and chucks tons of shots to get 40pts in a month. sorry, but that's not impressive. A lot of players can do that if they were so selfish playing out of the team concept and shooting 45913857438751 shots every month. Luckily this league is not filled with such irresponsible players and we don't have backyard playground ball.

You want to know what's really impressive?? Try a month of averaging 37 ppg on 57% shooting, and also throwing 11 assists, almost 7 rebounds, 3+ steals, and 1.5 blocks per game.. that's right, Wade

Yeah, that's a real all-around player and not a shot-jacking stat-piler punk like Kobe.. you know , that month actually takes work, real talent to do everything at once... it takes a lot of work to rebound like that WHILE going for all the points, and it takes a player who doesn't ignore the team concept to throw double digit assists, a really smart player, and of course lockdown defense to go with it.... and guess what, that was a month in a year where Wade held his isolation matchups to UNDER 30% shooting...

that's right, it's yet another thing kobe never did in any season in his career.. while Wade has had 3 seasons of holding his matchups to under 30% shooting. and of course, in overall defensive synergy scores Kobe has never had a better score in his career than Wade's 3 best defensive seasons.. Kobe couldn't hold a candle to any of Wade's 3 best defensive seasons.

lol at Kobe ever coming close to 57% shooting in a month on 37 ppg with all those other numbers and the type of defense Wade played that year.. lol because Kobe's totally and utterly incapable of doing that. Kobe is a total a punk, he played a lot less minutes this year and that shot jacking punk STILL LED THE LEAGUE IN SHOT ATTEMPTS !!!! :facepalm

I can give you a lol @ Wade stans life story as well, but i'll keep it brief. You can make a list of Kobe's accomplishments, and say Wade hasn't such and such either. A much LONGER list.

Fact of the matter is one has 5 rings, the other has 1. One has an MVP, the other has none. One has 28000 points, the other has 14,000 points. One's averaged 40 for a month multiple times, so GTFO with that he averaged 37 talk on 57% shooting 1 month of his career :roll: . Add up the 60, 50, 40, 30 point games, all star games, first team all NBA's, the first team defenses, etc etc, but most importantly the amount of total W's, playoff W's, and it's a landslide. I don't give a $hit if Kobe's played longer and with who, fact of the matter is he's DONE a lot more, so until Wade can break even with Kobe's resume GTFO with thinking he's better then him already. And that's Kobe. Comparing him to friggin MJ is blasphemy.

[Odinn]

Well said, prime/peak is pretty close, though I still give Kobe the edge there, but I also have a hard time seeing Wade match his longevity and accomplishments. Not that I value MVPs that much, but Kobe did win a well deserved one and could've won another in 2006, while I don't think Wade ever had the best case for MVP, and Kobe has 2 rings and 3 finals appearances as the man and 5 rings/7 finals appearances total, plus 4 truly great playoff runs(2001, 2008, 2009 and 2010) and another very good one(2002). And Wade isn't even that much younger than Kobe.
Very good post.:applause:

Wade's quality is close to Kobe's quality IMO.

But there is no way Wade can surpass Kobe's career achievments.

[knightfall88]

But there is no way Wade can surpass Kobe's career achievments.


And this is not an exaggeration because Wade simply can't while playing with lebron james. He might be earning the FMVP in a legendary manner but we won't forget that he's been carried throughout the season and through 2 tough playoff series to get there. It should be the same story every season from now too.

And you can't really compare this situation to Shaq and Kobe. Niether one can substitute for the other and neither one can afford not to show up in any particular series, they dominate in different ways and cannot do the same things.

[Jacks3]

Very good post.:applause:

Wade's quality is close to Kobe's quality IMO.

But there is no way Wade can surpass Kobe's career achievments.
:applause:

[Dro]

Of course everything always comes back to Jordan with Kobe.

:violin:
Well, Kobe's always asked for this...You know he wants to be MJ...

[Dro]

Yeah, Miller wasn't even better than Richmond when they were playing. Dude has become really overrated because of a few memorable clutch plays.
lol @ a "few" clutch plays...:roll: I guess the ESPN has spoiled u guys showing only what he did to the Knicks...Reggie is one of the greatest clutch performers in league history PERIOD...Its not just about last second, creating off the dribble buzzer beater's..I've never seen a player hit more daggers and clutch shots other than Michael Jordan..Kobe, Bird and Magic or the only players in NBA history who have an argument for being as cluch/more clutch than Reggie Miller...Hell if Dennis Rodman can be in the HOF with 7ppg career scoring avg or whatever it is and get he can get in for being a great rebounder, Reggie should get the same for being one of the best/clutchest shooters ever, and oh yeah, whether anybody thinks he was a first option or not, he WAS a first option and the other teams' gameplan was set to stop him from coming off those screens first..

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

not exactly a bunch of basketball historians herein.
seems like most of you guys don't know anything prior to the past few years.

[GOBB]

Glove made a good thread ranking top SGs of all time a long time ago...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=44212

[Ne 1]

Well, Kobe's always asked for this...You know he wants to be MJ...

Right, because Kobe patterned his game after MJ's that means idiotic Kobe haters sould use Jordan to diminish Kobe. :rolleyes:

stfu

[Dro]

Right, because Kobe patterned his game after MJ's that means idiotic Kobe haters sould use Jordan to diminish Kobe. :rolleyes:

stfu
NO...how bout YOU shut the **** up, apparently you're butthurt over a simple comment.....ITS NOT NEWS THAT KOBE WALKS, TALKS AND ACTS LIKE MJ, EVEN FROM DAY ONE...Kobe fans used to try use his MJ likeness to support their player....."Oh look at that, only MJ used to do that"...Now later in his career, all of a sudden you're surprised that Jordan is brought up in a thread where Kobe is being ranked on an all-time SG list of which MICHAEL JORDAN is unquestionably the greatest....And I'm an idiot :rolleyes: I could give a **** about about Kobe, Lebron or any of this rich fools, I'm not the one on here arguing for a player so much that I get butthurt over different opinions...

[Ne 1]

lol @ a "few" clutch plays...:roll: I guess the ESPN has spoiled u guys showing only what he did to the Knicks...Reggie is one of the greatest clutch performers in league history PERIOD...Its not just about last second, creating off the dribble buzzer beater's..I've never seen a player hit more daggers and clutch shots other than Michael Jordan..Kobe, Bird and Magic or the only players in NBA history who have an argument for being as cluch/more clutch than Reggie Miller...Hell if Dennis Rodman can be in the HOF with 7ppg career scoring avg or whatever it is and get he can get in for being a great rebounder, Reggie should get the same for being one of the best/clutchest shooters ever, and oh yeah, whether anybody thinks he was a first option or not, he WAS a first option and the other teams' gameplan was set to stop him from coming off those screens first..

And what did he do to the Knicks? The Knicks beat Reggie's Pacers more than he ever beat them.

As a player, he was so limited. Couldn't rebound, couldn't defend, couldn't create his own shot off the dribble (other than a step-back), didn't drive and wasn't an exceptional scorer. Hell, he was a "shooter" with no mid-range game. All of that "clutch" was done versus one team, (one series in particular) that they seldom won against.

Miller is a prime example of the power of "clutch" and New York. If he doesn't have that legendary game against the Knicks (they lost the series by the way) he's not looked upon in the same way.

He's living off the whole "he killed the Knicks" thing, and the sad part is I guarantee if you go up to 10 people and ask them who won that series at least 7 out of 10 will say the Pacers.

Miller was a one-trick pony (although he did so better than just about anybody). He was good, but not as nice as people make him out to be, he could run off of 2, 3, 4 screens and hit a jumper, but other than that element, his game was extremely one dimensional, offering nothing else in terms of defense, setting up other teammates, creating his own shot, couldn't beat anybody off the dribble, etc. He's defiantly remembered to be better than he actually was by most.

[Ne 1]

NO...how bout YOU shut the **** up

http://images4.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20090317162310/uncyclopedia/images/d/d1/Nou.jpg



apparently you're butthurt over a simple comment

Your the one who sounds upset.



ITS NOT NEWS THAT KOBE WALKS, TALKS AND ACTS LIKE MJ, EVEN FROM DAY ONE

:oldlol: @ this delusional moron. What a load of crap.....walks, talks and acts like? :roll: Yeah okay.....:rolleyes: Sad that Kobe detractors actually believe such non-sense.


Kobe fans used to try use his MJ likeness to support their player

What? All I ever seen people say is that they have similar skill sets. But what does that have to do with anything?


Now later in his career, all of a sudden you're surprised that Jordan is brought up in a thread where Kobe is being ranked on an all-time SG list of

How is this relevant?



I'm an idiot :rolleyes: I could give a **** about about Kobe, Lebron or any of this rich fools, I'm not the one on here arguing for a player so much that I get butthurt over different opinions

http://img38.imageshack.us/img38/2294/1286828764609.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/38/1286828764609.jpg/)

[blablabla]

Why are you so angry? Did Kobe do something to you?
raped his sister

[sh0wtime]

If you rank Wade over Jerry West that means Wade is a Top 10-15 player so you just know.

[MalikWadeCounty]

lol How many of u dudes actually seen jerry west play, man?

"THE NERVE OF U N***AS"

[ChandlerParsons]

lol How many of u dudes actually seen jerry west play, man?

"THE NERVE OF U N***AS"
nikka u saw jerry west play? damm old azz negro


dont listen to me

[Samurai Swoosh]

If you rank Wade over Jerry West that means Wade is a Top 10-15 player so you just know.
Pretty sure thats accurate then

[caliman]

Pretty sure thats accurate then


:wtf:

Wade is top 10-15 based on 1 Finals MVP and some 2nd team All NBA's? Standards have gotten suprisingly low because Kobe had to do a helluva lot over 14 years to get into most peoples top 10.

[tpols]

Pretty sure thats accurate then
Are you kidding me?

What I dont understand is that on EVERYONE's GOAT lists this year, Lebron was in the top 20 range, and Wade, if he was even mentioned, was top 30 or 25ish. Lebron was ahead of Wade on every single person's GOAT list.

And now, lets say lebron and wade complete this title run.. they both will end up having similar numbers[Lebron destroyed Wade against the sixers and bulls, it was a wash against boston, and Wade is currently destroying lebron against the mavs]. If anything Lebron has been the better and more consistent player throughout the Heat's whole season and playoff run, and somehow, with a championship, Wade will catapult over Lebron? Does this make any sense to you guys? And dont pull 'but it's the finals' because Lebron has outplayed Wade for the entire time[reg season + 1st three rounds combined] before the past three games..

[Heat007]

Are you kidding me?



And now, lets say lebron and wade complete this title run.. they both will end up having similar numbers[Lebron destroyed Wade against the sixers and bulls, it was a wash against boston, and Wade is currently destroying lebron against the mavs].

okay , now you're just being stupid.

LeBron was slightly better than Wade in the Sixers series, but remember Wade was doubled and even tripled for most of that series while LeBron had single coverage

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/6385/sixers-double-down-on-stopping-wade

And remember that it was Wade who was the closer through the first two rounds up until LeBron closed game 5 vs boston.. Before that it was all about Wade being the closer during the first 2 rounds (what a short memory you have. lol) But Wade closed game 5 too with his defense -- Wade being a rim protector altering Boston's final 4 shots in that game is why Boston didn't score a single bucket in the final 5 minutes of regulation time., so they both closed it out.

Wade was clearly better in the Boston series, it was not even at all as the numbers CLEARLY show.

Wade's PER after the first two rounds combined was 30 while lebron's was 27.. A 30 PER is ridiculous and Jordanesque.

Then in the bulls series LeBron was much better offensively, with both playing great defense and great rebounding etc.

Now Wade is great again in the Finals and is much better than lebron

[Heavincent]

lol at kobestans freaking out because Kobe sits back and chucks tons of shots to get 40pts in a month. sorry, but that's not impressive. A lot of players can do that if they were so selfish playing out of the team concept and shooting 45913857438751 shots every month. Luckily this league is not filled with such irresponsible players and we don't have backyard playground ball.

You want to know what's really impressive?? Try a month of averaging 37 ppg on 57% shooting, and also throwing 11 assists, almost 7 rebounds, 3+ steals, and 1.5 blocks per game.. that's right, Wade

Yeah, that's a real all-around player and not a shot-jacking stat-piler punk like Kobe.. you know , that month actually takes work, real talent to do everything at once... it takes a lot of work to rebound like that WHILE going for all the points, and it takes a player who doesn't ignore the team concept to throw double digit assists, a really smart player, and of course lockdown defense to go with it.... and guess what, that was a month in a year where Wade held his isolation matchups to UNDER 30% shooting...

that's right, it's yet another thing kobe never did in any season in his career.. while Wade has had 3 seasons of holding his matchups to under 30% shooting. and of course, in overall defensive synergy scores Kobe has never had a better score in his career than Wade's 3 best defensive seasons.. Kobe couldn't hold a candle to any of Wade's 3 best defensive seasons.

lol at Kobe ever coming close to 57% shooting in a month on 37 ppg with all those other numbers and the type of defense Wade played that year.. lol because Kobe's totally and utterly incapable of doing that. Kobe is a total a punk, he played a lot less minutes this year and that shot jacking punk STILL LED THE LEAGUE IN SHOT ATTEMPTS !!!! :facepalm

It baffles me how unbelievably dumb you are. I can't believe you haven't been banned yet.

[Jacks3]

:wtf:

Wade is top 10-15 based on 1 Finals MVP and some 2nd team All NBA's? Standards have gotten suprisingly low because Kobe had to do a helluva lot over 14 years to get into most peoples top 10.
This. People don't appreciate the extraordinary careers the guys in the top 15 had. Wade needs to do a lot more to crack that list.

[GOBB]

It baffles me how unbelievably dumb you are. I can't believe you haven't been banned yet.

I still cant believe people reply to him. The more people ignore him the less he'll post. One time people did it in a game thread and he copied/paste the same post 3 times because no one replied to him. He's nothing more than a dumb poster who bandwagons the Heat.

[Unstoppabull]

Retarded... :sleeping

[Doctor Rivers]

okay , now you're just being stupid.

LeBron was slightly better than Wade in the Sixers series, but remember Wade was doubled and even tripled for most of that series while LeBron had single coverage

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/6385/sixers-double-down-on-stopping-wade

And remember that it was Wade who was the closer through the first two rounds up until LeBron closed game 5 vs boston.. Before that it was all about Wade being the closer during the first 2 rounds (what a short memory you have. lol) But Wade closed game 5 too with his defense -- Wade being a rim protector altering Boston's final 4 shots in that game is why Boston didn't score a single bucket in the final 5 minutes of regulation time., so they both closed it out.

Wade was clearly better in the Boston series, it was not even at all as the numbers CLEARLY show.

Wade's PER after the first two rounds combined was 30 while lebron's was 27.. A 30 PER is ridiculous and Jordanesque.

Then in the bulls series LeBron was much better offensively, with both playing great defense and great rebounding etc.

Now Wade is great again in the Finals and is much better than lebron

Wade = Jordan

In terms of Finals performance

[knightfall88]

Are you kidding me?

What I dont understand is that on EVERYONE's GOAT lists this year, Lebron was in the top 20 range, and Wade, if he was even mentioned, was top 30 or 25ish. Lebron was ahead of Wade on every single person's GOAT list.

And now, lets say lebron and wade complete this title run.. they both will end up having similar numbers[Lebron destroyed Wade against the sixers and bulls, it was a wash against boston, and Wade is currently destroying lebron against the mavs]. If anything Lebron has been the better and more consistent player throughout the Heat's whole season and playoff run, and somehow, with a championship, Wade will catapult over Lebron? Does this make any sense to you guys? And dont pull 'but it's the finals' because Lebron has outplayed Wade for the entire time[reg season + 1st three rounds combined] before the past three games..

rankings are about achievements and the Wades finals MVP is most likely going to offset any kind of contribution Lebron has done in the earlier rounds (people forget and there is no MVP for earlier rounds). Nevertheless, it is still extremely embarassing to be the best player in the game in his prime and lose out the FMVP to somebody else. Kobe contributed more to a championship run than Lebron even but was still willing to break up the Lakers any chance he could get to make damn sure he gets the FMVP./ So yes, this FMVP means a whole lot, Lebron might not care but looking at Wade, you know he certainly does and he deserves credit for convincing Lebron otherwise and trolling him for it.

[tpols]

rankings are about achievements and the Wades finals MVP is most likely going to offset any kind of contribution Lebron has done in the earlier rounds (people forget and there is no MVP for earlier rounds).
This is exactly my point..

It would be like in 2000, if Kobe were to have signifigantly outplayed shaq against Indiana and won the FMVP. Would he get all the credit for the title run because of that one award despite the fact that Shaq was better in all of the games and series before that? From a ranking standpoint, it doesn't make sense.

Lebron has clearly had a bigger overall impact on the heat's success than Wade when you count regular season + playoffs.. but these three games from Wade will somehow erase all of that? Doesn't make any sense..

[bizil]

D-Wade has been in the L since 2003. Since his second year he's been a top ten player in the L minimum. Now he's a top three player in the L with a ring and Finals MVP under his belt. And as a player you can say from a talent standpoint I feel he is the third best SG of all time behind MJ and Kobe. And when u look at SG's like West and Drexler they have just one ring. And guys like AI, Gervin, Pete, and Miller have no rings. Rings aren't the be all end all. But u gotta give Wade credit for that legendary Finals run.

So legacy wise if u wanna rank West or Drexler over Wade then cool. But as far as talent, I feel Wade is the third best two of all time. He's been great for 7-8 years and his resume so far allows him to be discussed in the top 10 SG's. Wade getting a ring, Finals MVP, gold medal, etc. early in his career to match his individual numbers give him a head start on being ranked with the greats. I feel if you have been great for 8 or so years, have accomplished a lot ,or had a great impact on the L you can get ranked on the GOAT list. Bird, Magic, MJ, and Shaq were regarded as top 5 or 6 of all time caliber after their first 8 years in the L. Hell Bird, MJ, and Magic were already considered the best of all time at the SF, SG, and PG.