has anyone ever called out Jordan?

[swi7ch]

And then Jordan torched him for like 50+ pts. the next time they met?

[Crown&Coke]

no way. why would someone want to poke the bear?

NBA players were afraid of Jordan, most were anyway.

[Theoo's Daddy]

In the playoffs, miami vs bulls.. Alonzo talked soo much shit before the game, during the jump ball tip, alonzo came over to shake hands, jordan ignored him, gave him the GTFOH look.. as he Proceeded to anihilate the heat.. :oldlol:

[Kobe24Clutch]

no way. why would someone want to poke the bear?

NBA players were afraid of Jordan, most were anyway.
:oldlol:

[Kellogs4toniee]

Coaches made it clear during practice and speeches to never call out or piss of Jordan before a game.

[Theoo's Daddy]

He used to own the Bullets, webber/howard/calbert chaney/rod strickland couldn't help talking shit before games.

[Bogus_Sting]

Coaches made it clear during practice and speeches to never call out or piss of Jordan before a game.

Thats why I wouldn't be surprised if he comes out of retirement again, with what Pippen said about Lebron and the way young punks disrespect him on this forum.

[Unstoppabull]

better not. Jordan whoop your ass faster than yo mamma can suck a fat one!

[Samurai Swoosh]

And then Jordan torched him for like 50+ pts. the next time they met?
Jordan didn't need to be called out. He was hard on himself if he played bad, and came out on call to meet or exceed the hype and delivered. He was self motivated. Case in point ... 1993 ECF, shot terribly the first 2 games ... comes out in game 3 and drops 54 points.

:facepalm

[jstern]

There were times, and Jordan always delivered.

Van Gundy learned the hard way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDBkgwZqtCs

Edit: You meant called out for the way he was playing. I have no memory of that.

Edit: In this game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ3udUBfY1w&feature=feedu
one of the players talked shit to Michael, in the final minutes, and Jordan scored 19 points to win the game.

[OldSchoolBBall]

And then Jordan torched him for like 50+ pts. the next time they met?

How about during the same game? In game 3 of the 1992 first round, Brian Shaw and Willie Burton started taunting Jordan after he scored zero points in the first quarter. They said "we've got your number tonight Mike! We're shutting you down!" Bad move. Jordan proceeded to score 56 points in quarters 2-4 to eliminate the Heat. Here are the highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVcwa99dBB4

[Crown&Coke]

I thought B.Shaw with GS was lighting it up and trash talking to MJ while the W's were up like 15 points in the 4th. MJ told the opposing coach "you better shut him up" and the coach just looked at Jordan bewildered. MJ went on a scoring run and won the game. Walked over to the opposing coach and said "told you you should have shut him up"

Someone on ISH told me it was actually Derrick Martin when he played for Vancouver.

I have no idea who the player was, but that story is legit regardless of who it was, and awesome to say the least.

[OldSchoolBBall]

:oldlol:

What are you laughing at? It's absolutely true.

[ballerz]

Didn't a news reporter from cleveland say that Ehlo was an elite defender and could shut down jordan before he dropped 69 on them?

[Samurai Swoosh]

Coaches made it clear during practice and speeches to never call out or piss of Jordan before a game.
This too ... and even coaches had to learn their lessons.

See the Van Gundy Game "Con Man Game" ... where dropped 51 on the Knicks then gave the death stare to little old Van Guny telling him to suck on that and dropping expletives after his last basket to finish the game.

Or the George Karl game, where he dropped 45 on the Glove in response to Gary and Karl's comments about his game.

Or the "LaBradford Smith Game" ... Smith dropped 37 on Jordan and the Bulls. Jordan really just sagged off and let him shoot jumpers that game, not respecting his game offensively. Jordan was so pissed and embarassed he promised journalists he would match Smith's total of 37 by half time. The Bulls played them again the next night.

He only finished the first half of the next game with 36, not solidifying his promise of 37.

:(

haha ...

He finished the game with 47 in only 31 minutes, and in the first half held Smith to 2 - 8 shooting.

[Gundress]

no way. why would someone want to poke the bear?

NBA players were afraid of Jordan, most were anyway.


:oldlol:

You totally forgot about the Bad Boys (Detroit Pistons).

[Kobe24Clutch]

How about during the same game? In game 3 of the 1992 first round, Brian Shaw and Willie Burton started taunting Jordan after he scored zero points in the first quarter. They said "we've got your number tonight Mike! We're shutting you down!" Bad move. Jordan proceeded to score 56 points in quarters 2-4 to eliminate the Heat. Here are the highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVcwa99dBB4
56 points on 20-30 :eek: :bowdown:

[DeronMillsap]

All those stories of the Greatest of All-times. :bowdown:

[chris2010]

I guarantee Reggie Miller did. in fact i think i recall jordan playing horribly and right before halftime miller came up to him and was like "and you are supposed to be the greatest of all time". Then in the 2nd half scored like 30 points or so.

[Theoo's Daddy]

:oldlol:

You totally forgot about the Bad Boys (Detroit Pistons).

Pistons bad boys could handle their own though. They never respected him, until they got eliminated by the bulls on their way to their 1st ring.

[Gundress]

There were times, and Jordan always delivered.

Van Gundy learned the hard way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDBkgwZqtCs

Edit: You meant called out for the way he was playing. I have no memory of that.

Edit: In this game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ3udUBfY1w&feature=feedu
one of the players talked shit to Michael, in the final minutes, and Jordan scored 19 points to win the game.

On 2nd Link, marked at 1:00....this mfer Jordan knows how mfer, only him...shit is not lucky.....MJ is unbelievable. I feel sorry for anyone who ain't born in 80's-90's and missed out on greatest MJ.

[Fatal9]

My personal favorite is when Starks talks trash to him in the '92 series (game 2 I think). God damn, he got just destroyed after that and Jordan let him know every shot.

[Kobe24Clutch]

What year was it that they started calling him the GOAT?

[catch24]

JVG calls Michael Jordan a "con man" and this proceeded to happen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chJeKE2646U)

George Karl, Barkley, Maxwell, New York... a lot of players have trash talked him during games and he ended up piling it on later that game.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Didn't a news reporter from cleveland say that Ehlo was an elite defender and could shut down jordan before he dropped 69 on them?
No ... Jordan decided to drop 69 on the "great" state of Ohio because he rolled his ankle during the game and while he was on the ground, classy Clevelanders were cheering his injury.

He didn't go into the game trying to score a lot. But after the cherring of his injury, he went off.

Thats why I :oldlol: when Kobe fans act like Jordan couldn't have dropped 81.

Jordan always proved a point scoring the ball, but did it in a way that after he made his point, there was no reason to go to excess with it at the expense of the team game. Jordan on multiple occassions could've eclipsed 70 given his blistering shooting on some nights ... but chilled out after he made his statement.

[Samurai Swoosh]

What year was it that they started calling him the GOAT?
1985 lol ...

But seriously, it started getting attention by 1989 / 1990 ...

Solidified almost for certain after his 2nd ring.

[Ne 1]

Van Gundy learned the hard way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDBkgwZqtCs

Gundy wasn't lying though.


The day before game 4 of the Bulls-Suns Finals with the Bulls leading the series 2-1. Michael and Charles Barkley went golfing. They played 48 holes of golf. And Michael bought Charles a $20,000 diamond earring. Johnny Bach asked MJ, “what did you do all that for?” Michael responded, “he won’t get in my way the rest of the series, what’s $20,000 to me? Charles thinks we’re great friends. I hate that fat ****.” Jordan dropped 55 in game 4 and Barkley never touched him once.

[Samurai Swoosh]

My personal favorite is when Starks talks trash to him in the '92 series (game 2 I think). God damn, he got just destroyed after that and Jordan let him know every shot.
THATS the game. I just asked Loki what game it was. And Doug Collins was commentating (per Michael Jordan Air Time) ... and I remember him saying ... "Jordan looks for someone to get him in this frame of mind competitively, and if you don't stand up to him mentally, he will TORMENT you."

:oldlol:

[Kobe24Clutch]

1985 lol ...

But seriously, it started getting attention by 1989 / 1990 ...

Solidified almost for certain after his 2nd ring.
So basically by his 4-5th year? :eek:

[Samurai Swoosh]

Pistons bad boys could handle their own though. They never respected him, until they got eliminated by the bulls on their way to their 1st ring.
Ummm they respected him. They didn't respect his supporting cast. The goal was to tear MJ away from the team concept and get him and his known competitive spirit to try and beat them 1 v.s. 5. Sometimes it almost seemed Jordan could be successful at it for a game or two. But not over the course of a series. Not until his teammates manned up mentally (Paxson and Cartwright were always tough) and earned his trust, thats when the Bulls finally spanked the,.

[Samurai Swoosh]

So basically by his 4-5th year? :eek:
Well, look what he was doing his first 5 years in the league. Dude could've won MVP from 1987 onwards.

[DeronMillsap]

I never got to see the 80's Jordan or the first 3-peat Jordan...pretty much missed the pre-baseball retirement Jordan. :cry:

[The Ownage]

Damnit I wish I knew about the NBA back then.

[Kobe24Clutch]

Well, look what he was doing his first 5 years in the league. Dude could've won MVP from 1987 onwards.
You mean from his rookie year.

[Fatal9]

Jordan didn't need to be called out. He was hard on himself if he played bad, and came out on call to meet or exceed the hype and delivered. He was self motivated. Case in point ... 1993 ECF, shot terribly the first 2 games ... comes out in game 3 and drops 54 points.

Game 4 bro. In game 3 he shot 3/18 :D

[Samurai Swoosh]

You mean from his rookie year.
No ... his first 2 years in the league, not so much.

By his third year? Absolutely.

[greensmoke21]

kobe would have

[Samurai Swoosh]

Game 4 bro. In game 3 he shot 3/18 :D
Oh ok ... so he shot bad for 3 straight games. Anyway, the point stands. People were talking about how bad he was shooting, how well Starks was defending him, etc And then he bent him over for 54 points in the Conference Finals, against the 2nd best defense in the league.

:oldlol:

[Kobe24Clutch]

Sucks that i missed the 1st 3peat Jordan. :cry:

[Crown&Coke]

No ... his first 2 years in the league, not so much.

By his third year? Absolutely.

yup.

his rookie year he was finding out how easy it was to score. But he didn't really dominate other than put the ball in the hole (and defense of course)

second year he broke his foot, out like 70 games.

year three he just knew, "this shit is mine to take"

[Tarik One]

You know in 1992 Cavs acquired Wilkins to stop Jordan. He was self-proclaimed as the "Jordan Stopper". However, when they meet in the playoffs in 1993, Jordan took this as a challenge and burned him badly.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Jordan had a drive and motivation that could be surpassed by no one. It was almost a mental illness to an extent. He was just so determined on being #1, it was somewhat like an inferiority complex; he just could not stand anyone being better than him, it pained him to no end. For all the young kids, take a look at KG's focus and intensity and multiply that by 5.

[Theoo's Daddy]

kobe would have


:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Samurai Swoosh]

year three he just knew, "this shit is mine to take"
Yea, that dropping of 63 points in the playoffs on what is probably a top five team all-time also had something to do with giving him a TON of confidence.

:pimp:

[Theoo's Daddy]

Jordan had a drive and motivation that could be surpassed by no one. It was almost a mental illness to an extent. He was just so determined on being #1, it was somewhat like an inferiority complex; he just could not stand anyone being better than him, it pained him to no end. For all the young kids, take a look at KG's focus and intensity and multiply that by 100.

Jordan wouldn't accept losing.. KG lost for a while.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Oh ok ... so he shot bad for 3 straight games. Anyway, the point stands. People were talking about how bad he was shooting, how well Starks was defending him, etc And then he bent him over for 54 points in the Conference Finals, against the 2nd best defense in the league.:oldlol:

In the 90's there was NO TEAM who played better D than the Knicks...

[Gundress]

Ummm they respected him. They didn't respect his supporting cast. The goal was to tear MJ away from the team concept and get him and his known competitive spirit to try and beat them 1 v.s. 5. Sometimes it almost seemed Jordan could be successful at it for a game or two. But not over the course of a series. Not until his teammates manned up mentally (Paxson and Cartwright were always tough) and earned his trust, thats when the Bulls finally spanked the,.


Right.

[Crown&Coke]

Yea, that dropping of 63 points in the playoffs on what is probably a top five team all-time also had something to do with giving him a TON of confidence.

:pimp:

if not for Prime Bird doing what Bird does he wins that game single handedly :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Samurai Swoosh]

Jordan had a drive and motivation that could be surpassed by no one. It was almost a mental illness to an extent. He was just so determined on being #1, it was somewhat like an inferiority complex; he just could not stand anyone being better than him, it pained him to no end. For all the young kids, take a look at KG's focus and intensity and multiply that by 5.
It absolutely is ... he was extreme. Fabricating mental slights just to get an edge sometimes. But hey, it works. When you have that kind of natual talent that is propelled to work THAT hard. He's unstoppable. A basketball perfect storm.

[Theoo's Daddy]

Jordan had a drive and motivation that could be surpassed by no one. It was almost a mental illness to an extent. He was just so determined on being #1, it was somewhat like an inferiority complex; he just could not stand anyone being better than him, it pained him to no end. For all the young kids, take a look at KG's focus and intensity and multiply that by 100.

fixed ..

Jordan wouldn't accept losing, not in the playoffs atleast.. KG lost for a while.

[Quizno]

sorry to bring kobe into this, but as someone who's too young to have ever really watched bulls jordan and only gets to watch youtube clips (or games on youtube), they seem to have really similar styles. seeing a prime kobe face off with a prime jordan would probably be the best thing to ever happen in basketball ever.

for the record, kobe's my favorite player but i do realize MJ's better. but still, that would be a battle for the ages

[Samurai Swoosh]

In the 90's there was NO TEAM who played better D than the Knicks...
Well there ya go ... dropped 54 on the BEST defense.

:pimp:

[Nevaeh]

I never got to see the 80's Jordan or the first 3-peat Jordan...pretty much missed the pre-baseball retirement Jordan. :cry:

That's too bad. That was actually the most exciting version. Did a tribute season to the 91 Bulls in NBA2k11 not too long ago. The best place to start with MJ is the 85 season clips first to understand how he was innovating moves on the fly game after game.



JVG calls Michael Jordan a "con man" and this proceeded to happen (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chJeKE2646U)

George Karl, Barkley, Maxwell, New York... a lot of players have trash talked him during games and he ended up piling it on later that game.

Don't forget about the "Stackhouse" game in 96, where he was bragging about being able to shut Mike down. I think he got lit up for 48 points by MJ in 3 quarters and then sat out the 4th.

[Samurai Swoosh]

for the record, kobe's my favorite player but i do realize MJ's better. but still, that would be a battle for the ages
He's probably the only one I've ever seen who would be able to come closest to stand up to prime Jordan, mentally. But physically he would just get crushed, kid.

[Kobe24Clutch]

sorry to bring kobe into this, but as someone who's too young to have ever really watched bulls jordan and only gets to watch youtube clips (or games on youtube), they seem to have really similar styles. seeing a prime kobe face off with a prime jordan would probably be the best thing to ever happen in basketball ever.

for the record, kobe's my favorite player but i do realize MJ's better. but still, that would be a battle for the ages
:applause:

[Crown&Coke]

fixed ..

Jordan wouldn't accept losing, not in the playoffs atleast.. KG lost for a while.

that and Jordan stepped to anyone, not just Euros or guards.

Remember him standing up to the entire NY Knicks when the Knicks were demolishing people who came into the lane

[DirtySanchez]

Threads like this make me realize how the youth now has NO IDEA what happen in the 80's and 90's with Jordan.

They seem to have bought in to the make believe fantasy that Jordan is a God or something. He was a great player yes but that's just it.

You want to learn Jordan's struggle to the top see his early games against Bird's Celtics and Dumars/Zeke's Bad Boys.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

fixed ..

Jordan wouldn't accept losing, not in the playoffs atleast.. KG lost for a while.

yea but KG had an absolutely horrid team.... for the majority of his tenure with the Wolves, his #2 guy was Wally Sczerbiak lmao.

I also never blame big men who are the #1 option when they can't carry a barren team, big guys just can't take over like a guard or forward can. You can make the argument for Dirk, but he's not a traditional big man.

[jstern]

sorry to bring kobe into this, but as someone who's too young to have ever really watched bulls jordan and only gets to watch youtube clips (or games on youtube), they seem to have really similar styles. seeing a prime kobe face off with a prime jordan would probably be the best thing to ever happen in basketball ever.

for the record, kobe's my favorite player but i do realize MJ's better. but still, that would be a battle for the ages

The real thing that you can't get watching youtube clips is Jordan's mind, as it unfolds not knowing the future of the outcome. Everything is all said and done, so when a person who never saw him play watches his clips, it doesn't do him justice, because it looks like just another superstar, like Wade or Lebron.

[Samurai Swoosh]

You want to learn Jordan's struggle to the top see his early games against Bird's Celtics and Dumars/Zeke's Bad Boys.
Who said his team didn't struggle?

We're talking about the individual player.

Don't be salty about Jordan's GOAT status, bro.

Kareem ... is that you?

:oldlol:

[Kobe24Clutch]

Threads like this make me realize how the youth now has NO IDEA what happen in the 80's and 90's with Jordan.

They seem to have bought in to the make believe fantasy that Jordan is a God or something. He was a great player yes but that's just it.

You want to learn Jordan's struggle to the top see his early games against Bird's Celtics and Dumars/Zeke's Bad Boys.
:facepalm I know he was a great player, but i for one don't see him as a god.:oldlol:

[Crown&Coke]

The real thing that you can't get watching youtube clips is Jordan's mind, as it unfolds not knowing the future of the outcome. Everything is all said and done, so when a person who never saw him play watches his clips, it doesn't do him justice, because it looks like just another superstar, like Wade or Lebron.

very, very good point. I never thought about that.

[bergs14]

Byron Russell last year or whatever it was lol
Bryon Russell responds to Michael Jordan's Hall of Fame Speech (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mrPf9Bch1pc)

Bryon Russell: I Would Whoop MJ's Ass! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-OarqwglQs&feature=fvwrel)

[Quizno]

He's probably the only one I've ever seen who would be able to come closest to stand up to prime Jordan, mentally. But physically he would just get crushed, kid.
how do you feel about kobe? like how do you rank him as a player, is he overrated, is he really the closest to jordan, and if so, how close is he? etc etc

what's your opinion?

[Samurai Swoosh]

Remember him standing up to the entire NY Knicks when the Knicks were demolishing people who came into the lane
Exactly ... Jordan wasn't scared to stand up to anyone. No matter their size.

Standing up to Xavier McDaniel whom EVERYONE in the league feared.

http://www.thesportsjury.com/images/stories/Mark_Ferland/jordan-ewing.jpg

[Crown&Coke]

:facepalm I know he was a great player, but i for one don't see him as a god.:oldlol:

He was God on the bball court, closest thing to it anyway

Larry Bird said so too

[ThaSwagg3r]

for the record, kobe's my favorite player but i do realize MJ's better. but still, that would be a battle for the ages
http://h7.abload.de/img/0073_1nbe.gif

[Samurai Swoosh]

how do you feel about kobe? like how do you rank him as a player, is he overrated, is he really the closest to jordan, and if so, how close is he? etc etc

what's your opinion?
He's not Jordan. So let's get that out the way first of all. Not super close, either.

Kobe is his own entity.

If you combined Kobe and Wade, you'd have something almost of a clone of Michael Jordan.

I rank Kobe as the 2nd greatest SG of all-time. With Wade running him down, or at least approaching that level.

[C-Webb4]

They did call out Jordan, but the media wasn't nearly as involved as they are now. There wasn't facebook, twitter, youtube, etc etc..., the internet wasn't as prominent and not nearly as many people had it. Now the media practically goes right to your door, asks you pointed question about Jordan (or current superstar in todays league) and if you answer honestly, it's headline news. And don't get me started if the NBA had this "player X" bullshit that people could talk shit and hide behind. People would be ragging on Jordan all day.:oldlol:

[catch24]

You know in 1992 Cavs acquired Wilkins to stop Jordan. He was self-proclaimed as the "Jordan Stopper". However, when they meet in the playoffs in 1993, Jordan took this as a challenge and burned him badly.

http://uk.bloggif.com/output/result/6/8/6820f690d8e9ef108f60fdc9a70f4364.gif?1307663915

Yeah, Nevaeh... can't forget about the Stackhouse game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUMHZbvnMAA#t=3m04s)

Making him look straight foolish :bowdown:

[Nevaeh]

The real thing that you can't get watching youtube clips is Jordan's mind, as it unfolds not knowing the future of the outcome. Everything is all said and done, so when a person who never saw him play watches his clips, it doesn't do him justice, because it looks like just another superstar, like Wade or Lebron.

Too True.

No better example of that than the 98 Finals game 6 IMO. The first moment was when he made the Layup with about 40 seconds left. It looked awkward going up so I thought MJ was gonna miss it.

The second moment was that steal on Malone. That sh!t was out of nowhere :oldlol:

Of course the final moment would be "the push-off Shot". I was thinking Jordan was gonna drive for the potential 3-point play. Still worked out though.

[DeronMillsap]

The real thing that you can't get watching youtube clips is Jordan's mind, as it unfolds not knowing the future of the outcome. Everything is all said and done, so when a person who never saw him play watches his clips, it doesn't do him justice, because it looks like just another superstar, like Wade or Lebron.
:applause:

I only got to see the '96-'98 Jordan AKA the Fade Away Jordan. Even with losing some of his athleticism, he still looked like an unstoppable force out on the court.

If he was that incredible at the age of 32-35 then I do believe he was a basketball God in the 80's and early 90's when he was between 24-30 years-old. Even if I didn't see him play in those years, I got enough out of the 2nd-peat to believe what was written or said about his greatness back then.

[OldSchoolBBall]

I thought B.Shaw with GS was lighting it up and trash talking to MJ while the W's were up like 15 points in the 4th. MJ told the opposing coach "you better shut him up" and the coach just looked at Jordan bewildered. MJ went on a scoring run and won the game. Walked over to the opposing coach and said "told you you should have shut him up"

Someone on ISH told me it was actually Derrick Martin when he played for Vancouver.

I have no idea who the player was, but that story is legit regardless of who it was, and awesome to say the least.

Not sure who the bench player was, but it was someone who was on the bench during a game vs. the Grizzlies in 1996 that you're referring to. He started mouthing off to MJ mid-way through the 4th because the Bulls were down big, and Jordan went on to score 19 points in the final 5:30 to win the game, talking with this dude on the bench the whole time (it was either Darrick Martin or Shaq, but I have another MJ/Martin trash-talk story recounted by KG and Flip Saunders from when Martin was on Minnesota, so I'm not sure). You can see Jordan talking to him at the end of the video. Highlights here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShNfeFxij28

[FKAri]

Alvin Robertson talked trash with Michael. MJ and the 96 Bulls (72-10) proceeded to lose the game to Alvin's Raptors. That was one of my first NBA games. :lol

Players are human. MJ also wipes his ass. Stop treating him like a God.

[Crown&Coke]

Not sure who the bench player was, but it was someone who was on the bench during a game vs. the Grizzlies in 1996 that you're referring to. He started mouthing off to MJ mid-way through the 4th because the Bulls were down big, and Jordan went on to score 19 points in the final 5:30 to win the game, talking with this dude on the bench the whole time (it was either Darrick Martin or Shaq, but I have another MJ/Martin trash-talk story recounted by KG and Flip Saunders from when Martin was on Minnesota, so I'm not sure). You can see Jordan talking to him at the end of the video. Highlights here:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ShNfeFxij28

that was probably it!! :cheers:

and I think you called me on it last time I brought it up to, dammit, you got me 2x, but cheers nontheless

[OldSchoolBBall]

That's too bad. That was actually the most exciting version. Did a tribute season to the 91 Bulls in NBA2k11 not too long ago. The best place to start with MJ is the 85 season clips first to understand how he was innovating moves on the fly game after game.




Don't forget about the "Stackhouse" game in 96, where he was bragging about being able to shut Mike down. I think he got lit up for 48 points by MJ in 3 quarters and then sat out the 4th.

Yup. Stack started yapping about how he beat Jordan in a one on one game once at UNC, and their first meeting in the pros went like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUMHZbvnMAA

As you said, 48 points in 3 quarters on insane efficiency (both FG% wise and in terms of how effortless he made it look).

[Ne 1]

Alvin Robertson talked trash with Michael. MJ and the 96 Bulls (72-10) proceeded to lose the game to Alvin's Raptors. That was one of my first NBA games. :lol

Players are human. MJ also wipes his ass. Stop treating him like a God.

The works of rose-tinted nostalgia glasses.

[Nevaeh]

Alvin Robertson talked trash with Michael. MJ and the 96 Bulls (72-10) proceeded to lose the game to Alvin's Raptors. That was one of my first NBA games. :lol

Players are human. MJ also wipes his ass. Stop treating him like a God.

And who exactly is treating him like a God? The Thread title asks "has anyone called out Jordan?" People are just giving their recollections of Players and coaches that did, and what happened afterwards.

[catch24]

Yup. Stack started yapping about how he beat Jordan in a one on one game once at UNC, and their first meeting in the pros went like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gUMHZbvnMAA

As you said, 48 points in 3 quarters on insane efficiency (both FG% wise and in terms of how effortless he made it look).

Posted this a few min ago...

3:04 literally makes MJ look like his puppet master. Where you at? :oldlol:

[G-train]

Jordan is the best ever, but despite what the Jordan lovers say he is only slightly better than Kobe.
Prime head to head would be a fairly even matchup - just ask Phil or Brian Shaw or Horace Grant, guys that played with or coached both.

[G-train]

And who exactly is treating him like a God? The Thread title asks "has anyone called out Jordan?" People are just giving their recollections of Players and coaches that did, and what happened afterwards.

75% of the posts in this thread are from Jordan worshippers.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Exactly ... Jordan wasn't scared to stand up to anyone. No matter their size.

Standing up to Xavier McDaniel whom EVERYONE in the league feared.

http://www.thesportsjury.com/images/stories/Mark_Ferland/jordan-ewing.jpg

Former Nets PF Jayson Williams said something very similar to the following in an interview in GQ in the late 90's, when asked about Jordan:

"Michael is all smiles before tip-off, but when the ball goes up, you had better make sure you don't say anything at all to him, and don't look him in the eye. He's all business. He'll cut your heart out."

Then, when asked about who he wouldn't want to fight:

"Probably Jordan or Vernon Maxwell. People don't understand Jordan. Sure, he'll smile for the cameras, but make no mistake - if he had a problem with you, he'll find you after the game and put you right on your ass. I've seen him do it. Michael's hard - he's a hard guy."

I had this saved as a favorite years ago, but the link died over the years. Pretty sure it may also be recounted in Williams' self-authored book.

Jordan didn't back down from anybody, any size. I still remember the game in 1997 where he "sonned" Chris Childs (Childs got in MJ's face during a dead ball after a foul call and MJ pushed his head back with his hand :oldlol: ).


Jordan is the best ever, but despite what the Jordan lovers say he is only slightly better than Kobe.

Jordan is at least 10% better than Kobe in terms of impact and level of play prime vs. prime (4-5 year prime), and possibly more than 10% better peak vs. peak (~2 seasons). And, with players at this level, 10% is significant,

[Nevaeh]

75% of the posts in this thread are from Jordan worshippers.

Or maybe people who actually watched him play live? :confusedshrug:

[BlackJoker23]

Jordan is the best ever, but despite what the Jordan lovers say he is only slightly better than Kobe.
Prime head to head would be a fairly even matchup - just ask Phil or Brian Shaw or Horace Grant, guys that played with or coached both.
come on man. jordan is getting some serious handjobs in this thread but lets be reality here...prime head to head, it's gonna be a fairly even match up? :oldlol:

jordan would shit on the dude.

[SinJackal]

There were times, and Jordan always delivered.

Van Gundy learned the hard way

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lDBkgwZqtCs

Edit: You meant called out for the way he was playing. I have no memory of that.

Edit: In this game http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZ3udUBfY1w&feature=feedu
one of the players talked shit to Michael, in the final minutes, and Jordan scored 19 points to win the game.

Nice vids bro. :applause:

[Jacks3]

jordan would shit on the dude.
:oldlol:
Nobody would shit on prime Kobe. Dude would destroy any and all.

[macpierce]

prime kobe could hit jumpshots over anybody at will, i can only think of MJ being able to do that as well...........
pull up jumpshots or cross you over into a jumpshot

[G-train]

Or maybe people who actually watched him play live? :confusedshrug:

I watched his whole career.

[ThaSwagg3r]

:oldlol:
Nobody would shit on prime Kobe. Dude would destroy any and all.
http://h7.abload.de/img/0073_1nbe.gif

[G-train]

come on man. jordan is getting some serious handjobs in this thread but lets be reality here...prime head to head, it's gonna be a fairly even match up? :oldlol:

jordan would shit on the dude.

Seen them both live and in prime, and I'm not alone. Once again, do some research on some Phil and Brian Shaw quotes, plus plenty of other guys.
Not even Jordan himself would agree with the last sentence.

[bagelred]

The Monstars called Jordan out. We all know what happened next.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Not even Jordan himself would agree with the last sentence.
Really? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY-8m5p1NTk)

:rolleyes: :facepalm

[Jacks3]

http://h7.abload.de/img/0073_1nbe.gif
Jordan stans--truly delusional.

lol @ Jordan doing anything against prime Bryant. :oldlol:

[BlackJoker23]

Seen them both live and in prime, and I'm not alone. Once again, do some research on some Phil and Brian Shaw quotes, plus plenty of other guys.
Not even Jordan himself would agree with the last sentence.
phil and brian shaw dont have the balls to come out and say anything against kobe especially something that would impact kobe negatively.

jordan vs kobe head to head in a playoff series would be like the 92 finals jordan vs drexler except that kobe would average 4-5 points more in that series than drexler did.

[G-train]

Jordan was pretty much considered the GOAT after the 92 playoffs.
Prior to that it was Kareem/Wilt/Russell and in some peoples minds Bird or Magic.
During the late 80's early 90's it was considered an argument as to who was better in the league out of Jordan, Bird, Magic, Isaiah... even Clyde Drexler was considered in 90-92 to be as good as or near to Jordan. After Jordan out played him in the 92 finals, most considered him the goat.

[Ne 1]

75% of the posts in this thread are from Jordan worshippers.

The usual suspects too. (jstern, Loki, Nevaeh)

In their eyes Jordan walked on water, opened the eyes of the blind, raised a man from the dead and cured the sick.

[SinJackal]

Jordan is the best ever, but despite what the Jordan lovers say he is only slightly better than Kobe.
Prime head to head would be a fairly even matchup - just ask Phil or Brian Shaw or Horace Grant, guys that played with or coached both.

You can't trust Phil's positive comments about Kobe when he's been coaching Kobe. He's not going to throw him under the bus and ruin chemistry by saying Jordan is significantly better. Meanwhile, Phil actually does complain about Kobe all the time, but did not do so with Jordan.

Despite what Kobe lovers say, Jordan is actually a lot more than "slightly better". You're simply labeling everyone who's seen Jordan play throughout a season, then thinking that he's much better than what they see out of Kobe. . .as a "Jordan lover".

Prime head to head, Jordan's better. Kobe has a similar game, but it's worse than Jordan's in nearly every way. Literally. Worse passer, worse slasher, worse rebounder, worse shot blocker, worse defender overall, worse at forcing turnovers and getting steals, worse mid range shooter, slightly better 3pt shooter, much worse shot selection, much less consistent, less clutch, worse in the playoffs, MUCH worse in the Finals, mentally chokes when he doesn't get calls whereas Jordan just played harder and did the stuff refs weren't calling, etc etc etc.

Just admit it; the only reason you're saying that stuff is because you didn't see Jordan play, you like Kobe a lot, and he's "newer", and more fresh in your mind. Almost every single time, that is the only reason anyone claims it's "really close", when in reality, it is NOT. Kobe is slightly close to Jordan in some areas, sure. But the fact of the matter is, he's worse in almost every area, and it's not close in some areas. Which means Jordan is overall much better, since he is better in so many ways.

[G-train]

Really? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aY-8m5p1NTk)

:rolleyes: :facepalm

get out of here with that weak stuff

[catch24]

phil and brian shaw dont have the balls to come out and say anything against kobe especially something that would impact kobe negatively.

jordan vs kobe head to head in a playoff series would be like the 92 finals jordan vs drexler except that kobe would average 4-5 points more in that series than drexler did.

Kobe in his prime would make Drexler look like he didn't belong on the same court either, just saying. Kobe vs Jordan isn't all that close, but there isn't some huge gap between them either.

[ThaSwagg3r]

get out of here with that weak stuff
Watch the first 5-10 seconds of the video. :facepalm

He said in his prime it is not even a contest between the two.

[OldSchoolBBall]

phil and brian shaw dont have the balls to come out and say anything against kobe especially something that would impact kobe negatively.

jordan vs kobe head to head in a playoff series would be like the 92 finals jordan vs drexler except that kobe would average 4-5 points more in that series than drexler did.

Exactly. Jordan would clearly - CLEARLY - outplay Kobe in any playoff series. Kobe would, of course, have games in the regular season where he outplayed Jordan, just like many superstars did and would. But in a playoff series with all the lights on them? Jordan would eat Kobe. Hypothetical series averages:

Kobe - 27.0-29.0 pts/5.5 reb/5.0 ast/43-45% FG/52-54% TS

Jordan - 32.0-33.5 pts/6.5 reb/6.0 ast/48-50% FG/55-57% TS.

There is NO WAY Kobe outplays prime MJ in a playoff series. Anyone who thinks that there's actually a chance he would is delusional.

[G-train]

You can't trust Phil's positive comments about Kobe when he's been coaching Kobe. He's not going to throw him under the bus and ruin chemistry by saying Jordan is significantly better. Meanwhile, Phil actually does complain about Kobe all the time, but did not do so with Jordan.

Despite what Kobe lovers say, Jordan is actually a lot more than "slightly better". You're simply labeling everyone who's seen Jordan play throughout a season, then thinking that he's much better than what they see out of Kobe. . .as a "Jordan lover".

Prime head to head, Jordan's better. Kobe has a similar game, but it's worse than Jordan's in nearly every way. Literally. Worse passer, worse slasher, worse rebounder, worse shot blocker, worse defender overall, worse at forcing turnovers and getting steals, worse mid range shooter, slightly better 3pt shooter, much worse shot selection, much less consistent, less clutch, worse in the playoffs, MUCH worse in the Finals, mentally chokes when he doesn't get calls whereas Jordan just played harder and did the stuff refs weren't calling, etc etc etc.

Just admit it; the only reason you're saying that stuff is because you didn't see Jordan play, you like Kobe a lot, and he's "newer", and more fresh in your mind. Almost every single time, that is the only reason anyone claims it's "really close", when in reality, it is NOT. Kobe is slightly close to Jordan in some areas, sure. But the fact of the matter is, he's worse in almost every area, and it's not close in some areas. Which means Jordan is overall much better, since he is better in so many ways.

Dude, simply put you are a ****ing idiot. That's pretty much a fact around these parts.

I have been watching ball longer than 95% posters have been alive, and the other 5% starting watching when Jordan was playing and have worshipped him since. I am in the .001% of the site who can comment without bias.

Jordan is only slightly better than Kobe and it would be a fairly even matchup.

[Jacks3]

lol @ 52-54% TS. lol @ only 27-29 PPG. Jordan stans are freaking ridiculous.

:roll:

[G-train]

Watch the first 5-10 seconds of the video. :facepalm

He said in his prime it is not even a contest between the two.

I dont care about some video at a high school. I have heard him talk Kobe in more relevant settings.

[Jacks3]

The usual suspects too. (jstern, Loki, Nevaeh)

In their eyes Jordan walked on water, opened the eyes of the blind, raised a man from the dead and cured the sick.
Seriously. :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

Jordan was pretty much considered the GOAT after the 92 playoffs.
Prior to that it was Kareem/Wilt/Russell and in some peoples minds Bird or Magic.
During the late 80's early 90's it was considered an argument as to who was better in the league out of Jordan, Bird, Magic, Isaiah... even Clyde Drexler was considered in 90-92 to be as good as or near to Jordan. After Jordan out played him in the 92 finals, most considered him the goat.

The 90s were actually the perfect opportunity for a "GOAT" level player to step up and scoop up the championships in the post Magic/Bird era.

[G-train]

Exactly. Jordan would clearly - CLEARLY - outplay Kobe in any playoff series. Kobe would, of course, have games in the regular season where he outplayed Jordan, just like many superstars did and would. But in a playoff series with all the lights on them? Jordan would eat Kobe. Hypothetical series averages:

Kobe - 27.0-29.0 pts/5.5 reb/5.0 ast/43-45% FG/52-54% TS

Jordan - 32.0-33.5 pts/6.5 reb/6.0 ast/48-50% FG/55-57% TS.

There is NO WAY Kobe outplays prime MJ in a playoff series. Anyone who thinks that there's actually a chance he would is delusional.

Yeah just make up some stats. No one in their right mind talks Jordan with you so I'll leave it at Jordan is slightly better than Kobe.

[PP34Deuce]

Charles Barkley used to call him out...(they are frfiends) but they used to get heated in the Post where Charles backed his ass down.

[BlackJoker23]

Kobe in his prime would make Drexler look like he didn't belong on the same court either, just saying. Kobe vs Jordan isn't all that close, but there isn't some huge gap between them either.
except that i never said he's around drexler's level. you add around 5 ppg to drexler's averages that series and you get 30 ppg, 8 rpg, 5 apg on 41% shooting. you think he's going to do any better? 41% is right around his finals average. he's not shooting any better with jordan guarding him. those 8 rpg are probably doing him a favor anyway.

[G-train]

The 90s were actually the perfect opportunity for a "GOAT" level player to step up and scoop up the championships in the post Magic/Bird era.

I like to refer to it as the post super team era.

It was Magic/Kareem on the same team, arguably 2 of the 5 best players ever. Plus another elite player in Worthy, who was a superstar in his own right.

Boston had Bird and McHale, 2 all time great forwards. Then Parish who was an excellent centre, and DJ who was an excellent guard.

On top of that both teams had excellent role players.

After that it became a more selfish league, where you have the one superstar scorer and not much team play.

[catch24]

except that i never said he's around drexler's level. you add around 5 ppg to drexler's averages that series and you get 30 ppg, 8 rpg, 5 apg on 41% shooting. you think he's going to do any better? 41% is right around his finals average. he's not shooting any better with jordan guarding him. those 8 rpg are probably doing him a favor anyway.

I know you didn't.

Kobe was a better/more well-rounded scorer than Drexler, so I think he'd not only shoot better, but scorer more.

[Jacks3]

Clyde against Jordan in 92 Finals: 25 PPG/54% TS

Now consider that Kobe is a much,much better shooter/scorer and that his isolation abilities shit on Clyde's.

He'd be around 30-32 PPG/56%-57% TS easily. He'd destroy Jordan.

[G-train]

Prime Kobe matched up against Jordan is a notch above Drexler as a defender.

Clyde did not have 50% of Kobe competitiveness or killer instinct.
Kobe is in Jordan's ballpark for that.

They would produce very similar stat lines.

[OldSchoolBBall]

LMAO @ this revisionist nonsense, making Kobe out to be much better than he has ever shown himself to be. "MJ only slightly better than Kobe." "Fairly even matchup." My ass. :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

I like to refer to it as the post super team era.

It was Magic/Kareem on the same team, arguably 2 of the 5 best players ever. Plus another elite player in Worthy, who was a superstar in his own right.

Boston had Bird and McHale, 2 all time great forwards. Then Parish who was an excellent centre, and DJ who was an excellent guard.

On top of that both teams had excellent role players.

After that it became a more selfish league, where you have the one superstar scorer and not much team play.
No doubt. The NBA declined greatly after 1988, I'll go into more detail about it later, gonna go watch the game.

[comerb]

Dude, simply put you are a ****ing idiot. That's pretty much a fact around these parts.

I have been watching ball longer than 95% posters have been alive, and the other 5% starting watching when Jordan was playing and have worshipped him since. I am in the .001% of the site who can comment without bias.

Jordan is only slightly better than Kobe and it would be a fairly even matchup.


Seriously, I think you're the idiot. I watched both of them throughout the majority of their careers, Jordan was better in almost every aspect of the game... in some cases he was significantly better (ie shot selection, clutch, etc). He also got a lot more out of his teammates.

Maybe in a game of 1v1 street-ball they'd be pretty close, but in a playoff series... its not even close.

[Jacks3]

LMAO @ this revisionist nonsense, making Kobe out to be much better than he has ever shown himself to be.
What an idiot. :facepalm

[Ne 1]

Really there isn't much that seperates Kobe and Jordan as players. It's basically a pick 'em .

[OldSchoolBBall]

Clyde against Jordan in 92 Finals: 25 PPG/54% TS

Now consider that Kobe is a much,much better shooter/scorer and that his isolation abilities shit on Clyde's.

He'd be around 30-32 PPG/56%-57% TS easily. He'd destroy Jordan.

Yeah, you're not a troll at all. :oldlol:

Considering that Kobe didn't even post those numbers for the playoffs the last few seasons (he averaged 30/5.5/5.5/46% FG/56.5% TS), your estimates of him posting those numbers against perhaps the best defensive SG of all time is a bit much. :oldlol:

LMAO @ "he'd destroy Jordan." :oldlol: These Kobe trolls won't give it up.

[catch24]

"MJ only slightly better than Kobe." "Fairly even matchup." My ass. :oldlol:

Yeah... I don't agree with these notions, either.

[jstern]

I dont care about some video at a high school. I have heard him talk Kobe in more relevant settings.

Kobe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TjvW5-sGin4

& Kobe
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aBh3jf4mOOk

[G-train]

Seriously, I think you're the idiot. I watched both of them throughout the majority of their careers, Jordan was better in almost every aspect of the game... in some cases he was significantly better (ie shot selection, clutch, etc). He also got a lot more out of his teammates.

Maybe in a game of 1v1 street-ball they'd be pretty close, but in a playoff series... its not even close.

**** outta here newb

[Jacks3]

Yeah, you're not a troll at all. :oldlol:
You're the biggest troll on the net man.

Considering that Kobe didn't even post those numbers for the playoffs the last few seasons (he averaged 30/5.5/5.5/46% FG/56.5% TS, your estimates of him posting those numbers against perhaps the best defensive SG of all time is a bit much. :oldlol:
LMAO. His playoff averages OVER 3 YEARS is 30/6/6/57%, and he can't do 30-32/57% TS for one series, when a SG who is considerably worse than him as a scorer/shooter did 25 PPG/54% TS? You're ****ing retarded. :oldlol:

And you realize that Jordan's impact on D had FAR more do with his help/team defense than his man-to-man defense?

And that the 91 Bulls weren't even particularly great defensively? 105 DRTG/7th in league. Team defense matters a TON more in regards to shutting down star players.


LMAO @ "he'd destroy Jordan." :oldlol: These Kobe trolls won't give it up.
He'd drop around 30-32 PPG/57% TS on that overrated ass.

He'd destroy indeed.

:pimp:

[Boston C's]

1 on 1 it would be close but jordan gets the nod here for me... in a playoff series though it really isnt close, jordan would eat kobe alive i mean come on half the things kobe has done in the playoffs jordan would never let happen... sweep vs dallas nope, 24 point blown lead in finals nope, 40 point loss in closeout game in finals nope, i could seriously go on... jordan destroys kobe in a series

[Jacks3]

lol @ Jordan destroying Kobe when he couldn't even destroy Drexler, who's about three tiers below Bryant as a scorer/shooter. :roll:

[Duncan21formvp]

You're the biggest troll on the net man.

LMAO. His playoff averages OVER 3 YEARS is 30/6/6/57%, and he can't do 30-32/57% TS for one series, when a SG who is considerably worse than him as a scorer/shooter did 25 PPG/54% TS? You're ****ing retarded. :oldlol:

And you realize that Jordan's impact on D had FAR more do with his help/team defense than his man-to-man defense?

And that the 91 Bulls weren't even particularly great defensively? 105 DRTG/7th in league. Team defense matters a TON more in regards to shutting down star players.


He'd drop around 30-32 PPG/57% TS on that overrated ass.

He'd destroy indeed.

:pimp:

Kobe got outplayed by Reggie Miller and Jalen Rose in the finals and then by Iverson and then by Billups and then by Pierce on a busted knee. Imagine if Pierce was healthy.

[macpierce]

pierce on a busted knee??? :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

Kobe got outplayed by Reggie Miller and Jalen Rose in the finals and then by Iverson and then by Billups and then by Pierce on a busted knee. Imagine if Pierce was healthy.
Now address my points Jordan stan.


:pimp:

[DCL]

he destroyed all jordan-stoppers, played with a even greater intensity just to prove there was none.

[Ne 1]

MJ stans:

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000136586/polls_i_am_a_whiny_old_man_2752_654869_answer_2_xl arge.jpeg

http://tutors.digitalunite.com/files/2009/03/tutor-and-gentleman-by-computer.jpg

http://www.profimedia.com/photo/elderly-black-man-reading-medicine-box/profimedia-0078000218.jpg

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_1qvtjYj_f64/TLNdvtM0MQI/AAAAAAAAAAg/agJiXM-9pVI/S490/older-man-using-computer.jpg

[Jacks3]

:oldlol:

[Gear2]

Why am I not surprised that a thread that started off pretty interesting has now become Kobe vs Jordan?

I was enjoying reading the on topic portion of the thread, too.

[Ne 1]

Why am I not surprised that a thread that started off pretty interesting has now become Kobe vs Jordan?

I was enjoying reading the on topic portion of the thread, too.

Because the Jordan stans/old geezers are always grumpy.


http://th612.photobucket.com/albums/tt209/msparrie/computer%20funnies/th_Copyofth_Animationsoldmanoncomputer.gif

[juju151111]

Clyde against Jordan in 92 Finals: 25 PPG/54% TS

Now consider that Kobe is a much,much better shooter/scorer and that his isolation abilities shit on Clyde's.

He'd be around 30-32 PPG/56%-57% TS easily. He'd destroy Jordan.
What fantasy land do u live in where Kobe plays good in finals or on prime MJ level

[jstern]

Why am I not surprised that a thread that started off pretty interesting has now become Kobe vs Jordan?

I was enjoying reading the on topic portion of the thread, too.

The resentful kobesexuals came in. I stopped responding to them, cause I don't get into silly arguments, but as soon as somebody post something positive related to the topic, they again respond in an immature way, continuing making a Jordan vs Kobe thing.

[Jacks3]

What fantasy land do u live in where Kobe plays good in finals or on prime MJ level
What fantasy land do you live where a guy like Clyde can go for 25/54% TS, but a much, much better scorer/shooter/isolation player like Kobe can't do 30-32/56-58% TS. :facepalm

[Leviathon1121]

What fantasy land do you live where a guy like Clyde can go for 25/54% TS, but a much, much better scorer/shooter/isolation player like Kobe can't do 30-32/56-58% TS. :facepalm

You are just making stupid assumptions.

Take Bryant's 2004 Finals numbers for example, hideous.

Two years later, Wade absolutely destroys the very same Piston team. Putting up ridiculous numbers.

According to you, since I know in your eyes Bryant is a much better player then Wade, Bryant should easily produce better stats on better eff against the Pistons.

Being a Bryant fan though, I know you have multiple excuses prepared.

[Ne 1]

Take Bryant's 2004 Finals numbers for example, hideous.

Two years later, Wade absolutely destroys the very same Piston team. Putting up ridiculous numbers.


2004 Pistons: Def Rtg: 95.4

2006 Pistons: Def Rtg: 103.1

[Jacks3]

2004 Pistons: Def Rtg: 95.4

2006 Pistons: Def Rtg: 103.1
Too easy.

These guys are morons. I can't believe these people think the 06 Pistons were even in the same stratosphere as the 04 version. :facepalm

[Leviathon1121]

Like I said, excuses.

[juju151111]

What fantasy land do you live where a guy like Clyde can go for 25/54% TS, but a much, much better scorer/shooter/isolation player like Kobe can't do 30-32/56-58% TS. :facepalm
Mj will shut his inconsisatent ass down for his ushal 42% in the finals. This isn't Lee,ray allen, stevenson, etc... This is MJ. Mj shits all over Kobe. LOL 90-92 MJ>>> Any version of Kobe. You can't be serious. Mj was on another level then kome.

[Jacks3]

You are just making stupid assumptions.
How is it stupid? It's actually very logical and reasonable.


Take Bryant's 2004 Finals numbers for example, hideous.

04 Bryant was his worse year--he was never healthy the entire season mentally or physically due to the rape trial and had shoulder/knee surgeries in the off season that he never fully rehabbed for-- of his career and not a prime version ala 2001/2002/2003/2006/2007/2008/2009. There's a reason he saw a huge decline in his game that series compared to his epic 02-03 season.

Try again. :pimp:

[juju151111]

2004 Pistons: Def Rtg: 95.4

2006 Pistons: Def Rtg: 103.1
Wade did the samething in 05. He also did that to 10 boston celtics idiot.

[Jacks3]

Mj will shut his inconsisatent ass down for his ushal 42% in the finals. This isn't Lee,ray allen, stevenson, etc... This is MJ. Mj shits all over Kobe. LOL 90-92 MJ>>> Any version of Kobe. You can't be serious. Mj was on another level then kome.
Now try addressing my actual points. :pimp:

[Ne 1]

Wade did the samething in 05. He also did that to 10 boston celtics idiot.

2005 Pistons- Def Rtg: 101.2

For one you can NOT compare a quick 1st round exit to a grueling 7 games series of the NBA Finals.

Also the Celtics goal wasn't to shut down Wade. It was to shut down his teammates. Let Wade get his for the most part while locking down everyone else. The only way Miami had a chance to beat the Celtics last years was if Wade's teammates managed to play well. They decided to let Wade get his and make sure his teammates weren't a factor.

With the Lakers, it's the inverse... The best bet is to try to stop Bryant... body him, trap, shadow and force him to pass it to his teammates. Boston was hoping that Gasol et al wouldn't be able to handle the added pressure.

[juju151111]

Now try addressing my actual points. :pimp:
I did, Kobe would get his ushal inconsistant 41% against the goat Sg defender,biggest hands,fastest hands etc.... Noting unushal about Kobe getting his ushal 41%. He will make some fts/3s to get his TS% up, but noting major. WHile Prime Mj takes shit all over his face. Kobe starts to wonder why he never faced someone with Mj skillset before with that much speed/post moves. Like Phil says Mj stamina is unmatched. Kobe ain't doing shit while guarding Mj. tired has hell.

[juju151111]

2005 Pistons- Def Rtg: 101.2

For one you can NOT compare a quick 1st round exit to a grueling 7 games series of the NBA Finals.

Also the Celtics goal wasn't to shut down Wade. It was to shut down his teammates. Let Wade get his for the most part while locking down everyone else. The only way Miami had a chance to beat the Celtics last years was if Wade's teammates managed to play well. They decided to let Wade get his and make sure his teammates weren't a factor.

With the Lakers, it's the inverse... The best bet is to try to stop Bryant... body him, trap, shadow and force him to pass it to his teammates. We were hoping that Gasol et al wouldn't be able to handle the added pressure.
Complete BS. PP"no no we tried to stop Wade, but we just couldn't" when a reporter tried to hype up kome with the stupid question of Kobe being on another level. yep they were pretty good at shutting down Wade bum ass teammates. LMFAo you salty Wade and lebrick james played better agaisnt the celtocs while kome was his ushal 43% crap.:lol This guy had Lee 6'3 playing him good in 09:lol

[Ne 1]

Complete BS. PP"no no we tried to stop Wade, but we just couldn't" when a reporter tried to hype up kome with the stupid question of Kobe being on another level. yep they were pretty good at shutting down Wade bum ass teammates. LMFAo you salty Wade and lebrick james played better agaisnt the celtocs while kome was his ushal 43% crap.:lol This guy had Lee 6'3 playing him good in 09:lol

Pierce, Allen, and most importantly Doc Rivers, said on more than one occasion that while they would like to limit Wade, their priority was to make sure none of his teammates got it going as well. They tried to stay home on the shooters and looked not to trap Wade as much while giving him more jumpers. I believe Wade took something like 40 3 pointers over the 5 game series, and his shot was wet for the most part.

I know some would like to believe that the Celtics were out there with rocket launchers and land mines, doing everything they possibly could to prevent Wade from scoring (and that Kevin Hart was somewhere in the arena providing logistics), but while they wanted to limit his looks, they were more focused on giving him space to shoot and containing his teammates than stopping him at all costs.

[eliteballer]

Drexler averaged 25 points, 8 rebounds, 5 assists, 1 steal, and 1 block against Jordan in the Finals.

[Jacks3]

I did,.
No, you didn't. Again, if Jordan couldn't even keep Drexler from dropping 25 PPG/54% TS, how the hell is going to stop prime Bryant, who is a significantly better scorer/shooter/isolation player from doing 30-32 PPG/56-58% TS.

Answer: he can't.

lol Jordan stans.

[juju151111]

Pierce, Allen, and most importantly Doc Rivers, said on more than one occasion that while they would like to limit Wade, their priority was to make sure none of his teammates got it going as well. They tried to stay home on the shooters and looked not to trap Wade as much while giving him more jumpers. I believe Wade took something like 40 3 pointers over the 5 game series, and his shot was wet for the most part.

I know some would like to believe that the Celtics were out there with rocket launchers and land mines, doing everything they possibly could to prevent Wade from scoring (and that Kevin Hart was somewhere in the arena providing logistics), but while they wanted to limit his looks, they were more focused on giving him space to shoot and containing his teammates than stopping him at all costs.
GTFO PP in the press before the finals i remember it clearly asked by reporter to hype Kome "no we tried to stop him but just couldn't" hmmm the book on Wade is to let him take 3s, so they were trying to stop him u idiot.

[juju151111]

No, you didn't. Again, if Jordan couldn't even keep Drexler from dropping 25 PPG/54% TS, how the hell is going to stop prime Bryant, who is a significantly better scorer/shooter/isolation player from doing 30-32 PPG/56-58% TS.

Answer: he can't.

lol Jordan stans.
I just did are you slow?? I just said he would hold Kome to his USHAL Numbers. LOL He held Clyde under his ushal numbers which is different. I giving ur boy kobe a little credit. He would put up something like 29-32ppg 41% or something like that. I feel bad for Kome fans, but atleast ome made it into my top 10. I never thought he would after 08, but he proved me wroong. He ranked 9. you should be happy

[Ne 1]

GTFO PP in the press before the finals i remember it clearly asked by reporter to hype Kome "no we tried to stop him but just couldn't" hmmm the book on Wade is to let him take 3s, so they were trying to stop him u idiot.

I already responded to this point. Did you read anything I posted?

[Jacks3]

I just did are you slow??
:oldlol:

[andgar923]

Kobe fans really think kobe can guard MJ?

What a joke.

kobe can't even guard Wade, and MJ was faster than Wade and faaaar more skilled.

Prime Mj would blow by Kobe in just about every possession with Mj taking very little jump shots.

Shit... old Mj was blowing by a young Kobe with ease, can't imagine what a prime MJ would do to the poor guy.

And to top it off, an old MJ was staying in front of Kobe and contesting his shots, again... can't imagine what prime Mj would do to Kobe.

Not to say Kobe won't hit though shots from time to time, but that's the difference. Kobe would basically need to hit many tough shots, while MJ would be getting open looks and quick uncontested drives to the basket.

[Jacks3]

MJ fans really think MJ can guard prime Kobe?

MJ couldn't even guard Clyde and prime Kobe was quicker than Drexler and faaaaar more skilled.

Prime Kobe would just blow by or shoot over him.

Shit...97-99 Kobe had no trouble beating MJ one-on-one, can't imagine what prime Kobe would do to the poor guy.

And, to top it off, a rookie Kobe was staying in front of MJ and contesting his shots...again,can't imagine what prime Kobe would do.

Not to say Jordan won't hit stop his shots from time to time, but that's the difference. Kobe would basically get any shot he wanted, while getting getting open looks and quick uncontested drives to the basket.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

really goes to show you, no matter what you accomplish in life, eventually it only matters "what have you done for me lately".

lebron and kobe stans (even though I'm a big Kobe fan) will be there.

fans in general tend to forget as the years go by, the memories get more dull.

and young kids just didn't see it live, so they'll always feel a player they grew up watching is always better than the person they never saw play before.

sad reality

[Nevaeh]

Jordan had a drive and motivation that could be surpassed by no one. It was almost a mental illness to an extent. He was just so determined on being #1, it was somewhat like an inferiority complex; he just could not stand anyone being better than him, it pained him to no end. For all the young kids, take a look at KG's focus and intensity and multiply that by 5.

What's really cool is Jordan knew how to do it in a game without drawing attention to himself constantly. He always seemed to keep a "poker face" after a big play or 3 point shot. You'd rarely see him thumping his chest, screaming or antagonizing the crowd. He just played, gave a safe interview at the end of the game like nothing happened and that was that.

[Jasper]

his ex-wife :confusedshrug:

[andgar923]

A few more examples:


From Bill Simmons' book...


Story no. 1: It’s Game 1 of the 1992 NBA Finals and the painfully forced “Drexler or Jordan?” storyline (page 396) is in full swing, as well as Portland’s “we’re gonna make them beat us by shooting threes” plan that they were stupid enough to mention to the press. Clyde Drexler is about to get athletically sodomized by Jordan on national television. We just don’t know it yet. Portland jumps out to a 17–9 lead with six minutes remaining. Chicago’s crowd can’t get into it. Portland is running the floor and gaining confidence. Here’s the Cliff’s Notes version of the next 17 minutes of game time: MJ 3 ... MJ 2 + 1 ... MJ 3 ... MJ 3 ... MJ 2 ... MJ 2 (first quarter ends: 33–30, Blazers, Jordan has 18 and sits down for a breather) ... MJ comes back in (45–44, Chicago) ... MJ 2 ... MJ 3 ... MJ steal +2 ... MJ 2 ... MJ 3 ... MJ follow-up dunk for 2 ... awkward Drexler air ball 3 ... MJ 3 + shrug 107... third Portland time-out of quarter ... Chicago 66, Portland 49. Jordan scored 33 points in 17 minutes, 35 for the half, outscored Drexler by 27, and broke the record for playoff threes in one half. This actually happened.
Story no. 2: Jordan’s opponents learned to leave him alone by the mid-nineties, leading to a phenomenon unlike anything else we’ve witnessed before or since: Michael became basketball’s version of a sleeping tiger. In a league full of smack-talkers, chest-thumpers and yappers, incredibly, he remained completely off-limits. This was just understood. Implicitly. Even during the summer of 2001, when Jordan was running the Wizards but reportedly mulling a comeback, a slew of NBA teams voyaged to Los Angeles to watch a few California prospects work out. Jordan was there. So was L.A. native Paul Pierce, who spent a little time with Jordan because of his friendship with Chicago native (and then-Pierce teammate) Antoine Walker. At some point, Pierce started talking smack to MJ. You better not come back. This is our league now. We don’t want to embarrass you. That kind of stuff. Jordan nodded happily with one of those “Okay, okay, just wait” faces, finally saying, “When’s our first game against you guys? I’m gonna make it a point to drop 40 on you.” You could almost imagine Jordan pulling out a piece of paper and adding Pierce’s name to the list of Guys Whose Butts Need to Be Kicked. Of course, Pierce’s coach at the time (Jim O’Brien) overheard the running exchange and quickly pulled Pierce away, imploring his star, “Never talk to him. You hear me? That’s the one guy you don’t talk smack to!” And this was when Jordan had been retired for three full years. Three! Even then, at thirty-nine years old, a current NBA coach considered him a viable threat and someone who shouldn’t be angered under any circumstances. Wake me up when this happens again in my lifetime.

I also remember a few Wizards stories.

Ray Allen mentioned that Mj should've stayed retired... big mistake. MJ demolished him when they faced.

Corliss Williamson and the Pistons played the Wiz during a preseason game, and mentioned that MJ should've stayed retired... again... MJ lit him up.

Ricky Davis was talking trash after MJ scored less than 10 pts (I believe) against the Cavs. Dumb dumb didn't realize that they were playing the Wiz the next night. Mj proceeded to torch the Cavs for 40 points and the game winner the next night.

Here's more:


Craig Hodges told Michael Wilbon about a 1990 incident in which Pippen made the mistake of challenging Jordan in practice, when Michael “proceeded, literally, to score on Scottie at will. It was incredible. I mean, Scottie Pippen even then was one of the best players in the league and Michael just rained points on him. Scottie had to step back and say, ‘Slow up, man.’”



When a team of college All-Stars outscored the Dream Team in a half-assed scrimmage and made the mistake of puffing their chests out, Jordan started out the next day’s scrimmage by pointing at Allan Houston and simply saying, “I got him” ... and Houston didn’t touch the ball for two hours. 9


105. Pitino angered Jordan with his comments after Game 3. MJ’s next three games: 47–11–6, 38–8–10, 40–5–10. Pitino signed with the University of Kentucky a few weeks later. I’m sure it was a coincidence

And I'm sure there's plenty more.

[sekachu]

This too ... and even coaches had to learn their lessons.

See the Van Gundy Game "Con Man Game" ... where dropped 51 on the Knicks then gave the death stare to little old Van Guny telling him to suck on that and dropping expletives after his last basket to finish the game.

Or the George Karl game, where he dropped 45 on the Glove in response to Gary and Karl's comments about his game.

Or the "LaBradford Smith Game" ... Smith dropped 37 on Jordan and the Bulls. Jordan really just sagged off and let him shoot jumpers that game, not respecting his game offensively. Jordan was so pissed and embarassed he promised journalists he would match Smith's total of 37 by half time. The Bulls played them again the next night.

He only finished the first half of the next game with 36, not solidifying his promise of 37.

:(

haha ...

He finished the game with 47 in only 31 minutes, and in the first half held Smith to 2 - 8 shooting.


what about 92 final, when people thought about Clyde Drexler was equivalent to Michael Jordan, MJ made him his bitxh ........badly. :lol

[OldSchoolBBall]

lol @ Jordan destroying Kobe when he couldn't even destroy Drexler, who's about three tiers below Bryant as a scorer/shooter. :roll:

How is 36 pts/5 reb/7 ast/53% FG/62% TS vs. Drexler's 25 pts/8 reb/5 ast/40% FG/52% TS not Jordan "destroying" him? It doesn't get more lopsided than that. :oldlol:

[OldSchoolBBall]

What fantasy land do you live where a guy like Clyde can go for 25/54% TS, but a much, much better scorer/shooter/isolation player like Kobe can't do 30-32/56-58% TS. :facepalm

It was 52% TS for Drexler, you moron. He also shot like 40% from the field. :oldlol: But yeah, I'm sure Kobe not only averages 5-7 more ppg, but on vastly better efficiency than Drexler too. Because we know that Kobe is just SUCH an efficient player. :oldlol: Somehow Kobe is going to BETTER his postseason numbers from '08-'10 against possibly the best defensive SG of all time. Right. :oldlol:

[swi7ch]

After watching all the vids here and reading the stories behind them, how can anyone say Jordan isn't the GOAT?

[TheMan]

And then Jordan torched him for like 50+ pts. the next time they met?
The Knicks John Starks tried too and then Jordan ***** slapped him.

[TheMan]

:oldlol:

You totally forgot about the Bad Boys (Detroit Pistons).
Yeah, Jordan and the Bulls finally swept them and effectively ended the Pistons Bad Boys team.

MJ got the last laugh on those punks.

[swi7ch]

Look at this - Jordan scored a career low 6 pts at 38 years old and the media said he was done. Following game? MJ dropped 51 pts!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-b5wYcGadw

No one calls out Jordan and gets away with it. :bowdown:

[jstern]

I remember that the media was calling him out as Wizard, saying that he was too old now, then Jordan scored 51 points the next game.

Edit:


Look at this - Jordan scored a career low 6 pts at 38 years old and the media said he was done. Following game? MJ dropped 51 pts!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5-b5wYcGadw

No one calls out Jordan and gets away with it. :bowdown:

Didn't see your post, I was reading the previous page.

[Mrofir]

:oldlol:

u mad? It's true..

[f0und]

I remember when Mutumbo called him out saying "he's never dunked on me". The next game Jordan goes out and dunks on him, then waves the finger. LOL

Its that simple. If you call him out, challenge him, disrespect him, etc., he will put your ass in place.

[TheMan]

Jordan stans--truly delusional.

lol @ Jordan doing anything against prime Bryant. :oldlol:
Hey jackass, the OP asked a question about MJ, nowhere does he ask about Bryant and now the Kobe fanboys are here hijacking this thread, GTFOH with your mancrush, this ain't about Kobe.

[TheMan]

Really there isn't much that seperates Kobe and Jordan as players. It's basically a pick 'em .
:roll:

Get out of here son, it's obvious you never saw prime MJ:facepalm

[swi7ch]

I remember when Mutumbo called him out saying "he's never dunked on me". The next game Jordan goes out and dunks on him, then waves the finger. LOL

Its that simple. If you call him out, challenge him, disrespect him, etc., he will put your ass in place.
Found the vid - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8wSQrNsswDg (fast-forward to around 1:15)

:bowdown:

EDIT: Even Phil Jackson was so happy!

[Crown&Coke]

Jordan didn't need to be called out. He was hard on himself if he played bad, and came out on call to meet or exceed the hype and delivered. He was self motivated. Case in point ... 1993 ECF, shot terribly the first 2 games ... comes out in game 3 and drops 54 points.

:facepalm

MJ went out of his way to motivate himself. He took every comment as a slight, you didn't even have to say something negative, it could have simply been "Player X is pretty good" and he would respond with "you think so?" and go out and destroy that player just out of spite. He went out of his way to simply shut down Kukoc (Pip and MJ took turns) at the Olympics because he got a fat contract without even playing in the NBA yet.

Prime MJ was such a monster, he hated everyone who wasn't on his level mentally, and did it ruthlessly.

[andgar923]

MJ went out of his way to motivate himself. He took every comment as a slight, you didn't even have to say something negative, it could have simply been "Player X is pretty good" and he would respond with "you think so?" and go out and destroy that player just out of spite. He went out of his way to simply shut down Kukoc (Pip and MJ took turns) at the Olympics because he got a fat contract without even playing in the NBA yet.

Prime MJ was such a monster, he hated everyone who wasn't on his level mentally, and did it ruthlessly.


Quick story: In the early 1990s when Alonzo Mourning was on a tear and evolving from good young player to NBA All-Star, my sports editor George Solomon told me to follow Mourning for a few days and write about him, seeing as there is always interest reader interest in a Georgetown alum who was becoming a star. I went to Chicago for the first stop because it was always great to measure an up-and-coming player against the reigning champion Chicago Bulls and because I could sneak home for a minute and see family in Chicago -- and I could see Jordan play, which was always like going to the theatre.

Anyway, I went to the Bulls locker room, chatted with Jordan for a few minutes, asking him during that time about Mourning and what he thought of his development. It dawned on Jordan I had come "home" (his and mine) to write about Mourning, not the Bulls, not MJ. And Jordan took great delight, beginning in 1982, in beating Georgetown players. He never let Patrick Ewing forget who won that NCAA championship game. But this was something Jordan could use on some non-descript night to get into his pre-game rage.

"So you came home to write about one of your Georgetown boys?" Jordan said, becoming annoyed. "You didn't come to see me; you came to see that Georgetown kid? Suppose he doesn't score tonight? What you gonna write in The Washington Post then?"

Jordan was full-on by then and I'd seen this enough to know to pretty much shut up -- though I did say, "What do you mean, 'suppose he doesn't score?' "

Jordan said, "What don't you understand about, 'he ain't gonna score'?" I felt bad that Mourning was going to pay for this slight more than me.

Keep in mind Mourning was averaging about 20 points per game and Jordan, a guard, wouldn't be the guy guarding him ... not exactly.

I wish I could remember the exact game and find the box score, but I recall that when Jordan left the game the Bulls had a huge lead and Morning had three points. The Bulls defense had smothered Mourning, and Jordan had a couple of those swoop-in strips on double-teams Mourning never knew were coming.

:wtf:

[Soundwave]

Also for people who say Payton could guard Jordan -- in the 1997, then Sonics coach George Karl talked some trash about Jordan (saying he was pacing himself and conserving energy) and Jordan proceeded to drop 45 points on Payton.

Keep in mind that's an almost 34-year-old Jordan doing that to a prime Payton.

The only reason IMO Jordan had a somewhat subpar '96 Finals was because the Bulls cruised to a 3-0 lead and sorta were already in celebration mode with the rest of the country in that series. Then the father's day victory brought everything full circle.

[JustinJDW]

Too much trolling in this thread. Can't even concentrate. :facepalm

[f0und]

it was a good thread until the kobe kids coming crashing in, drunk off of kobe's jizz. its pretty much standard routine.

[BigBalla44]

Isnt it funny that no one even brought up Kobe in this thread, but the kobe lovers got insecure and started trolling? These people are sad.

[Jacks3]

It was 52% TS for Drexler, you moron. He also shot like 40% from the field. :oldlol: But yeah, I'm sure Kobe not only averages 5-7 more ppg, but on vastly better efficiency than Drexler too. Because we know that Kobe is just SUCH an efficient player. :oldlol: Somehow Kobe is going to BETTER his postseason numbers from '08-'10 against possibly the best defensive SG of all time. Right. :oldlol:
Why are you bringing up FG% when it's already included in TS%, you moron. :oldlol: And yes, if Drexler could do 25/52%, then a SG who is VASTLY better as a scorer/shooter/isolation player is going to get 30-32/56-58% TS. And 30-32/56-58% isn't all that much better than his post-season AVERAGES from 08-10 (30 PPG/57%). And one of those years he was past his prime (2010). And why are you comparing a THREE_YEAR stretch to ONE series, you moron?

Again, lol @ Drexler doing 25 PPG/52% TS, but a SG who is MUCH more aggressive, a MUCH better shooter/scorer/isolation player not getting 30-32/56-58% TS.

You're a ****ing idiot. :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

How is 36 pts/5 reb/7 ast/53% FG/62% TS vs. Drexler's 25 pts/8 reb/5 ast/40% FG/52% TS not Jordan "destroying" him? It doesn't get more lopsided than that. :oldlol:
Your stupidity continues to amaze. I'm talking about the defensive end. How is SG dropping 25 PPG/5 APG/52% TS "destroying". Even if the TS% isn't great, he's still getting beat. ****ing idiot. :facepalm

[Johnni Gade]

Jordan is awesome

[andgar923]

Why are you bringing up FG% when it's already included in TS%, you moron. :oldlol: And yes, if Drexler could do 25/52%, then a SG who is VASTLY better as a scorer/shooter/isolation player is going to get 30-32/56-58% TS. And 30-32/56-58% isn't all that much better than his post-season AVERAGES from 08-10 (30 PPG/57%). And one of those years he was past his prime (2010). And why are you comparing a THREE_YEAR stretch to ONE series, you moron?

Again, lol @ Drexler doing 25 PPG/52% TS, but a SG who is MUCH more aggressive, a MUCH better shooter/scorer/isolation player not getting 30-32/56-58% TS.

You're a ****ing idiot. :oldlol:

Shall we mention the fact that Kobe got d'd the f*ck up by the likes of JJ Reddick? Ray Allen? old Jason Kidd?

How do you think he'd fare against the greatest perimeter defender of all time?

A stronger, more athletic, meaner, tougher, smarter, mixture of Bowen, Battier, Patterson, Payton.

As many of us mentioned, Kobe would indeed hit some tough shots on MJ. But MJ wouldn't need to, since he'd blow by him instantly on damn near every possession.

So who do you think'll win?

A person getting very high percentage field goals on most shots?

Or

A person resorting to having to hit very tough low percentage field goals more times than not?

And if Drexler saw any increase on his stats, it's due to MJ guarding other players and he running the court on transition more so than him hitting shots all over Mike.

[tpols]

Shall we mention the fact that Kobe got d'd the f*ck up by the likes of JJ Reddick? Ray Allen? old Jason Kidd?
.
What? JJ Reddick is actually a very solid perimeter defender.. and the Magic were the league's best defense in 09.:oldlol:

And last year? Kobe was guarded by Tony Allen for a huge bulk of the time, and Tony Allen was voted the league's best perimeter defender.. and Ray Allen keeps himself in perfect shape and is a very good defender as it is.. Kobe was catching doubles everytime he dribbled in that boston series regardless.

As far as old Jason Kidd? You obviously are completely clueless to how Jason Kidd's defense works. It's predicated on position, anticipation, awareness, and very quick, strong hands.. he's never been a super quick defender like payton.. he uses his strength and IQ to play great D more than anything else. Look at what he's currently doing to prime lebron. Kidd is still a very good defender. LOL at you trying to downplay his impact by saying he's 'old'.

What a biased, shitty poster.:facepalm

[PowerGlove]

J kidd doesnt even guard lebron that often tpols. Its mostly marion and Stevenson.

[Jacks3]

Shall we mention the fact that Kobe got d'd the f*ck up by the likes of JJ Reddick? Ray Allen? old Jason Kidd?
Well, you're just blatantly lying. Nice try. :facepalm
Anyway, I'm talking about PRIME Kobe.

How do you think he'd fare against the greatest perimeter defender of all time?
:oldlol: He's not.

A stronger, more athletic, meaner, tougher, smarter, mixture of Bowen, Battier, Patterson, Payton.
Payton, Battier,Bowen are all better one-on-one defenders in their prime.


As many of us mentioned, Kobe would indeed hit some tough shots on MJ. But MJ wouldn't need to, since he'd blow by him instantly on damn near every possession.
Clearly, you don't realize that I'm talking about PRIME Kobe, who had an excellent first-step. He'd be blowing by Jordan on the regular.



A person resorting to having to hit very tough low percentage field goals more times than not?

It couldn't be clearer that you didn't watch prime Kobe, who had better shot-creation ability than anybody in history. lol @ "tough low-percentage shots". :oldlol:

And if Drexler saw any increase on his stats, it's due to MJ guarding other players and he running the court on transition more so than him hitting shots all over Mike.
No, it's because Drexler is a super-star and nobody is stopping these types of guys one-on-one, plus the 92 Bulls weren't that great defensively (105.0 DRTG) and team defense matters in regards to shutting down super-stars WAY MORE than individual defense. And if he couldn't stop Drexler how the hell is he not going to get torched by prime Kobe, who is much better? :facepalm

[Jacks3]

What? JJ Reddick is actually a very solid perimeter defender.. and the Magic were the league's best defense in 09.:oldlol:

And last year? Kobe was guarded by Tony Allen for a huge bulk of the time, and Tony Allen was voted the league's best perimeter defender.. and Ray Allen keeps himself in perfect shape and is a very good defender as it is.. Kobe was catching doubles everytime he dribbled in that boston series regardless.

As far as old Jason Kidd? You obviously are completely clueless to how Jason Kidd's defense works. It's predicated on position, anticipation, awareness, and very quick, strong hands.. he's never been a super quick defender like payton.. he uses his strength and IQ to play great D more than anything else. Look at what he's currently doing to prime lebron. Kidd is still a very good defender. LOL at you trying to downplay his impact by saying he's 'old'.

What a biased, shitty poster.:facepalm
lol @ dude bringing up series from 2009 and 2010 when Kobe was already past his prime at that point, and even still he torched the 09 Magic: 32.4 PPG/7.4 APG/54% TS/Only 2.2 TOV a game. lol @ J.J. Reddick. :oldlol:

[Ne 1]

What? JJ Reddick is actually a very solid perimeter defender.. and the Magic were the league's best defense in 09.:oldlol:

And last year? Kobe was guarded by Tony Allen for a huge bulk of the time, and Tony Allen was voted the league's best perimeter defender.. and Ray Allen keeps himself in perfect shape and is a very good defender as it is.. Kobe was catching doubles everytime he dribbled in that boston series regardless.

As far as old Jason Kidd? You obviously are completely clueless to how Jason Kidd's defense works. It's predicated on position, anticipation, awareness, and very quick, strong hands.. he's never been a super quick defender like payton.. he uses his strength and IQ to play great D more than anything else. Look at what he's currently doing to prime lebron. Kidd is still a very good defender. LOL at you trying to downplay his impact by saying he's 'old'.

What a biased, shitty poster.:facepalm
He's a troll. Same dude who said that Tree Rollins had LeBron's athletic ability before LeBron did. :hammerhead:

[tpols]

J kidd doesnt even guard lebron that often tpols. Its mostly marion and Stevenson.
He played him last night down the stretch.. and did a very good job on him.

Kidd and Marion have been switching off and onto other players constantly.. and Dallas has played a zone for a while where players are always guarding someone different.

My main point was that Kidd has been playing very good defense during Dallas's whole playoff run. Calling him 'old' is a weak attempt at downplaying his defensive impact, which has been great this year.

[bdreason]

Yes, people were calling out Jordan before his success.

[schism206]

How about during the same game? In game 3 of the 1992 first round, Brian Shaw and Willie Burton started taunting Jordan after he scored zero points in the first quarter. They said "we've got your number tonight Mike! We're shutting you down!" Bad move. Jordan proceeded to score 56 points in quarters 2-4 to eliminate the Heat. Here are the highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVcwa99dBB4
the drive @ 1:52 & 2:42, the entire heat team was surrounding jordan and he still managed to score.

[TheMan]

Ever notice how every thread about Jordan eventually turns into a Kobe vs MJ thread, it's always hijacked by Kobe fagboys trying to compare their mancrush to MJ...it's really pathetic.

The OP didn't mention Kobe anywhere in his post and these young punks who never watched prime MJ come in here starting shit, get a life you insecure jackasses.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Your stupidity continues to amaze. I'm talking about the defensive end. How is SG dropping 25 PPG/5 APG/52% TS "destroying". Even if the TS% isn't great, he's still getting beat. ****ing idiot. :facepalm

Drexler went from 26.9 ppg/7.7 ast/48.9% FG/56.5% TS in the playoffs up until the Finals to 24.8 ppg/5.3 ast/40.7% FG in the Finals and you're asking how that isn't getting destroyed? :oldlol: That's as good a job as anyone could ever hope to do against a superstar player (it was -2.1 ppg/-2.4 ast/-8% FG/-4.5% TS, which is an enormous drop).

Also, no, you weren't talking about the defensive end. You said that Jordan didn't destroy Drexler OVERALL when he did. 36 pts/5 reb/7 ast/53% FG/62% TS versus 25 pts/8 reb/5 ast/40% FG/52% TS is "getting destroyed." Just like Kobe would be destroyed, but not to the same extent (he'd be roughly mid-way between Drexler and MJ in terms of scoring/efficiency).

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Ever notice how every thread about Jordan eventually turns into a Kobe vs MJ thread, it's always hijacked by Kobe fagboys trying to compare their mancrush to MJ...it's really pathetic.

The OP didn't mention Kobe anywhere in his post and these young punks who never watched prime MJ come in here starting shit, get a life you insecure jackasses.

Anger Management Hotline: 1-800-GetOverIt

[OldSchoolBBall]

Payton, Battier,Bowen are all better one-on-one defenders in their prime.

Actually, only Payton has a case, but MJ has a couple of inches on him. So no. lmao @ Battier even being mentioned here. :oldlol:


Clearly, you don't realize that I'm talking about PRIME Kobe, who had an excellent first-step. He'd be blowing by Jordan on the regular.

Kobe has little chance of "blowing by" a guy with some of the quickest defensive feet of all time, and the fastest defensive slide, who is also clearly his athletic superior. He'd do it occasionally, because, hey, shit happens, but lol @ "on the regular."


It couldn't be clearer that you didn't watch prime Kobe, who had better shot-creation ability than anybody in history. lol @ "tough low-percentage shots". :oldlol:

Even his fans note that Kobe - even prime Kobe - took many, many tough, contested shots. He was just great (as compared to 99% of players in history) at making them because his concentration and technique were so fantastic. But he's not gonna get many good, clean looks against Jordan.


No, it's because Drexler is a super-star and nobody is stopping these types of guys one-on-one, plus the 92 Bulls weren't that great defensively (105.0 DRTG) and team defense matters in regards to shutting down super-stars WAY MORE than individual defense. And if he couldn't stop Drexler how the hell is he not going to get torched by prime Kobe, who is much better? :facepalm

But he did stop Drexler as much as you can stop a superstar (held him to -2.1 ppg/-2.4 ast/-8% FG/-4.5% TS below his postseason averages until the Finals, which is an enormous drop. Kobe would be limited as well. lmao @ asserting 30-32 ppg/57% TS or whatever the hall you said for Kobe. :oldlol: 2007 Kobe barely averaged that against the no-defense playing 2007 Suns. But he's gonna do that against possibly the best defensive SG of all time and one of the best defensive teams of all time? How about "no." :oldlol:

[BlackJoker23]

i'm sure there were times where drexler got points on switches or breakaways that skew the averages. drexler went to the line a lot in that series. how many times did drexler draw those fouls on jordan or as a result of getting by jordan? stuff like that matters. i think fg% does a better job indicating the type of job jordan did.

kobe is still getting owned, tho.

[Jacks3]

Drexler went from 26.9 ppg/7.7 ast/48.9% FG in the playoffs up until the Finals to 24.8 ppg/5.3 ast/40.7% FG in the Finals and you're asking how that isn't getting destroyed? :oldlol: That's as good a job as anyone could ever hope to do against a superstar player (it was -2.1 ppg/-2.4 ast/-8% FG, which is an enormous drop).
Are you retarded? He still averaged 25 PPG/5 APG/52% TS. He puts up those numbers over an entire season and he's still one of the best in the game. lol @ dude managing a 52% TS still despite shooting like 20% from three. I think prime Kobe could do better than that. :oldlol:


Also, no, you weren't talking about the defensive end. You said that Jordan didn't destroy Drexler OVERALL when he did. 36 pts/5 reb/7 ast/53% FG/62% TS versus 25 pts/8 reb/5 ast/40% FG/52% TS is "getting destroyed." Just like Kobe would be destroyed, but not to the same extent (he'd be roughly mid-way between Drexler and MJ in terms of scoring/efficiency).
No, I was clearly talking about the defensive end on the D end. Sorry, you're not destroying anybody defensively when your man is getting 25 PPG/5 APG/52% TS. lol @ Kobe being destroyed when he'd be dropping 30-32 PPG/56-58% TS easily against Jordan. :roll:

[Jacks3]

Actually, only Payton has a case, but MJ has a couple of inches on him. So no. lmao @ Battier even being mentioned here. :oldlol:
No, all three are better, more consistent on-ball defenders. lol @ Jordan being a better on-ball defender than Bowen. :roll:


Kobe has little chance of "blowing by" a guy with some of the quickest defensive feet of all time, and the fastest defensive slide, who is also clearly his athletic superior. He'd do it occasionally, because, hey, shit happens, but lol @ "on the regular."

Considering he had no problem blowing by superior defenders, and a guy like Clyde, who isn't as quick as prime Kobe, routinely got by Jordan...it's safe to say he would be blowing by him on the regular, yes.



Even his fans note that Kobe - even prime Kobe - took many, many tough, contested shots. He was just great (as compared to 99% of players in history) at making them because his concentration and technique were so fantastic. But he's not gonna get many good, clean looks against Jordan.
You're delusional. A single defender isn't going stop prime Kobe from getting good looks. Again, we're talking about the greatest shot-creator in history. "No good looks". LOL. We ain't talking about Clyde here. :oldlol:



But he did stop Drexler as much as you can stop a superstar (held him to -2.1 ppg/-2.4 ast/-8% FG/-4.5% TS below his postseason averages until the Finals, which is an enormous drop. Kobe would be limited as well. lmao @ asserting 30-32 ppg/57% TS or whatever the hall you said for Kobe. :oldlol: 2007 Kobe barely averaged that against the no-defense playing 2007 Suns. But he's gonna do that against possibly the best defensive SG of all time and one of the best defensive teams of all time? How about "no." :oldlol:
lol @ the 92 Bulls being one of the best defenses ever when they weren't even top 5 that year. You're funny. And yeah, if Clyde got 25 PPG/5 APG/52% TS against prime Jordan, it's safe to say that Prime Kobe, who is FAR SUPERIOR as a scorer/shooter/isolation player is easily going to get about 30-32 PPG/5 APG/57% TS. And that's a average series from prime Kobe. Hell, his post-season averages over THREE YEARS is 30/6/6/57% TS and that includes multiple series against teams with better defenses than the 91 Bulls. lol @ you acting like that's anything special from Prime Kobe. :oldlol:

[OldSchoolBBall]

No, all three are better, more consistent on-ball defenders. lol @ Jordan being a better on-ball defender than Bowen. :roll:


Jordan, when he zoned in, is pretty easily a better on-ball defender than Bowen. And he would certainly be zoned in vs. Kobe, just as he was against Clyde in the Finals. Your opinion is in the minority here.


Considering he had no problem blowing by superior defenders

Kobe had a ton of trouble getting by guys like Artest, Bowen (2000-2005 for each of them), and Payton (2000-2002) before the no-contact perimeter rules forbade any sort of contact on the perimeter and gave players an easy step past their man.


and a guy like Clyde, who isn't as quick as prime Kobe, routinely got by Jordan.

When was this? Certainly not in the Finals. If Drexler drove by Jordan 3 times that entire series, it's a lot. I've seen every game multiple times.

Kobe would NOT shoot better than 45-46% FG/55% TS against 1992 Jordan, which was his peak in terms of man-to-man defense - not unless he was averaging < 28 ppg. He would NOT average > 30 ppg unless he was shooting < 44% FG/53% TS. He would be CLEARLY outplayed.

[Mrofir]

Lakers are out

[Jacks3]

Jordan, when he zoned in, is pretty easily a better on-ball defender than Bowen. And he would certainly be zoned in vs. Kobe, just as he was against Clyde in the Finals. Your opinion is in the minority here.

Uh no. Jordan was never the on-ball defender Bowen was. He rarely gave that sort of effort and even when he did he wasn't as good.


Kobe had a ton of trouble getting by guys like Artest, Bowen (2000-2005 for each of them), and Payton (2000-2002) before the no-contact perimeter rules forbade any sort of contact on the perimeter and gave players an easy step past their man.

Wow @ your blatant lies. Did you even watch Kobe in the early 00's?
He had not trouble AT ALL beating any of those guys off the dribble. Oh, and the no-contact rules mean little here, because Kobe had clearly lost a step by 200-2007 compared to 00-04. Try again.



When was this? Certainly not in the Finals. If Drexler drove by Jordan 3 times that entire series, it's a lot. I've seen every game multiple times.
I've watched every game that series many times and Drexler routinely got by Jordan. lol @ the idea of Dreler, who drew 9 FTA per game that series, only getting by Jordan 3 times. Stop being a homer dude.

Kobe would NOT shoot better than 45-46% FG/55% TS against 1992 Jordan, which was his peak in terms of man-to-man defense - not unless he was averaging < 28 ppg. He would NOT average > 30 ppg. He would be CLEARLY outplayed.
Prime Kobe WOULD shoot at about a 56-58% TS clip considering he's MUCH better than Drexler, who managed 25 PPG/52% TS despite shooting 15% from three. He would easily average about 30 PPG to 32 PPG, which is utterly average for him, and about what right to expect considering the vastly inferior Drexler averaged 25 PPG. He WOULD play at a similar level to Jordan and he would CLEARLY outplay him in multiple games. Stop being dense,moron.

[Jacks3]

lol @ Jordan staying in front of prime Kobe when he couldn't even stay in front of freaking John Starks. :facepalm

[Duncan21formvp]

Jordan would lock down Kobe. If Tayshaun Prince, Reggie Miller and Paul Pierce with a busted knee did so single handedly, then imagine what Jordan would do.

Scary thought

[Batz]

Jordan would lock down Kobe. If Tayshaun Prince, Reggie Miller and Paul Pierce with a busted knee did so single handedly, then imagine what Jordan would do.

Scary thought
Do you know what a team defense is and how it works?
hint: rhetorical question.

[Jacks3]

Jordan would lock down Kobe. If Tayshaun Prince, Reggie Miller and Paul Pierce with a busted knee did so single handedly, then imagine what Jordan would do.

Scary thought
:roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

lol

Kobe would be Jordan's bitch in a h2h series. Kobe would be something like 27-29ppg/5/5 on anywhere from 40-44% shooting while Jordan would torch the Lakers trash defense to the tune of 30+/6/7 on 48-50%+ shooting.

[Jacks3]

:roll:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

i'm sure there were times where drexler got points on switches or breakaways that skew the averages. drexler went to the line a lot in that series. how many times did drexler draw those fouls on jordan or as a result of getting by jordan? stuff like that matters. i think fg% does a better job indicating the type of job jordan did.

kobe is still getting owned, tho.

Yeah, Drexler was clearly out played but as some pointed out, did a pretty good job getting to the line. Point is Jordan would outplay Kobe significantly and their peers/media alike would have no trouble pointing out who the better player was.

[NugzHeat3]

Uh no. Jordan was never the on-ball defender Bowen was. He rarely gave that sort of effort and even when he did he wasn't as good.


Wow @ your blatant lies. Did you even watch Kobe in the early 00's?
He had not trouble AT ALL beating any of those guys off the dribble. Oh, and the no-contact rules mean little here, because Kobe had clearly lost a step by 200-2007 compared to 00-04. Try again.



I've watched every game that series many times and Drexler routinely got by Jordan. lol @ the idea of Dreler, who drew 9 FTA per game that series, only getting by Jordan 3 times. Stop being a homer dude.

Prime Kobe WOULD shoot at about a 56-58% TS clip considering he's MUCH better than Drexler, who managed 25 PPG/52% TS despite shooting 15% from three. He would easily average about 30 PPG to 32 PPG, which is utterly average for him, and about what right to expect considering the vastly inferior Drexler averaged 25 PPG. He WOULD play at a similar level to Jordan and he would CLEARLY outplay him in multiple games. Stop being dense,moron.
I'm just sitting here lol'ing at Jordan clearly outplaying Kobe. Payton locked up Jordan and outplayed him after Karl made the switch in game 3. This matters because MJ was guarding GP and vice versa yet Kobe for some reason would get clearly outplayed? Downright laughable. Karl was and remains an idiot. GP absolutely ate up MJ in one of the regular season games too. My friend has that game on tape, watched it a few weeks ago and MJ was held to 1/8 shooting in the second half (that's when GP was guarding him) and 6/19 for the game. GP also flatout stripped him on the last play of the game.

Kobe and MJ would be a slight edge to MJ in a playoff series. Barely.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

It was 52% TS for Drexler, you moron. He also shot like 40% from the field. :oldlol: But yeah, I'm sure Kobe not only averages 5-7 more ppg, but on vastly better efficiency than Drexler too. Because we know that Kobe is just SUCH an efficient player. :oldlol: Somehow Kobe is going to BETTER his postseason numbers from '08-'10 against possibly the best defensive SG of all time. Right. :oldlol:

Exactly. If prime Kobe can't even crack 28 a game against the Phoenix Suns, there's no way he's scoring 30 against a Bulls team who at least played some defense :oldlol:

[ThaSwagg3r]

lol at using TS% to prove someone dominated the other. I didn't realize Jordan was suppose to defend Drexler in the FT line. :facepalm If you are going to some advanced stat to prove Drexler actually played well against Jordan then use eFG%.

[Ne 1]

Jordan would lock down Kobe.
Scary thought

Kobe would eat Jordan's lunch. Jordan never went up against a player of Kobe's caliber. His competition at SG was Byron Scott, Dan Majerle, Jeff Hornacek, Clyde Drexler and Hersey Hawkins.

[HighFlyer23]

kobe stomps this ******* jordan

[Da_Realist]

lol at using TS% to prove someone dominated the other. I didn't realize Jordan was suppose to defend Drexler in the FT line. :facepalm If you are going to some advanced stat to prove Drexler actually played well against Jordan then use eFG%.

:oldlol: :applause:

[Jacks3]

I'm just sitting here lol'ing at Jordan clearly outplaying Kobe. Payton locked up Jordan and outplayed him after Karl made the switch in game 3. This matters because MJ was guarding GP and vice versa yet Kobe for some reason would get clearly outplayed? Downright laughable. Karl was and remains an idiot. GP absolutely ate up MJ in one of the regular season games too. My friend has that game on tape, watched it a few weeks ago and MJ was held to 1/8 shooting in the second half (that's when GP was guarding him) and 6/19 for the game. GP also flatout stripped him on the last play of the game.

Kobe and MJ would be a slight edge to MJ in a playoff series. Barely.
Great post. :applause:

[Jacks3]

Exactly. If prime Kobe can't even crack 28 a game against the Phoenix Suns, there's no way he's scoring 30 against a Bulls team who at least played some defense :oldlol:
What retarded logic is this. He averaged 33/56% TS vs the Suns. And he had better series against much better defensive teams in the next 2-3 years.

[Ne 1]

Exactly. If prime Kobe can't even crack 28 a game against the Phoenix Suns, there's no way he's scoring 30 against a Bulls team who at least played some defense :oldlol:

What? Kobe in the playoffs has put up 28, 33 and 34 ppg vs Phoenix. Also the Suns back in '06/'07 the Suns had Shawn Marion who's putting the clamps down on your boy LeBron in the Finals right now. :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

:oldlol: :applause:
Yeah, maybe because getting to the FT line 9-10 times a game is a clear sign that a player is consistently beating his man off the dribble? Duh.

:rolleyes:

[Jacks3]

Kobe would eat Jordan's lunch. Jordan never went up against a player of Kobe's caliber. His competition at SG was Byron Scott, Dan Majerle, Jeff Hornacek, Clyde Drexler and Hersey Hawkins.
This. MJ was lucky as hell to not have seen guys like prime Kobe/T-Mac/Wade/Iverson etc. They'd shit all over Jordan.

[Stuckey]

god damn, another jordan thread ruined by kobe stans

[andgar923]

The sad thing is there's a video of their confrontations that backs up everything I've stated. Do Kobe stans think I'm pulling this shit outta my asss?

This video documents every possession in which they guarded each other, and any bias (shit.... even Kobe biased fans) will see that MJ played Kobe better, than vice versa, and this is wayyy past his prime, both physically and game wise.

I can easily post this vid, but it's funny to see how delusional they are.

MJ past his physical prime was doing a better job at staying in front of Kobe than Kobe was staying in front of him.

MJ past his physical prime was doing a better job at blowing past Kobe, than Kobe blowing past him.

MJ past his physical prime getting more space and getting cleaner looks, than Kobe.

And on and on....

MJ in his prime would kill Kobe... PERIOD.

[Boston C's]

The sad thing is there's a video of their confrontations that backs up everything I've stated. Do Kobe stans think I'm pulling this shit outta my asss?

This video documents every possession in which they guarded each other, and any bias (shit.... even Kobe biased fans) will see that MJ played Kobe better, than vice versa, and this is wayyy past his prime, both physically and game wise.

I can easily post this vid, but it's funny to see how delusional they are.

MJ past his physical prime was doing a better job at staying in front of Kobe than Kobe was staying in front of him.

MJ past his physical prime was doing a better job at blowing past Kobe, than Kobe blowing past him.

MJ past his physical prime getting more space and getting cleaner looks, than Kobe.

And on and on....

MJ in his prime would kill Kobe... PERIOD.

this... kobe stands no chance

[Boston C's]

This. MJ was lucky as hell to not have seen guys like prime Kobe/T-Mac/Wade/Iverson etc. They'd shit all over Jordan.

stupidest thing I have seen on ish

[Boston C's]

What? Kobe in the playoffs has put up 28, 33 and 34 ppg vs Phoenix. Also the Suns back in '06/'07 the Suns had Shawn Marion who's putting the clamps down on your boy LeBron in the Finals right now. :oldlol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B3et6qAsOxo&feature=related

prime shawn marion gettin owned by 40 yr old mike :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

[raptorfan_dr07]

I'm just sitting here lol'ing at Jordan clearly outplaying Kobe. Payton locked up Jordan and outplayed him after Karl made the switch in game 3. This matters because MJ was guarding GP and vice versa yet Kobe for some reason would get clearly outplayed? Downright laughable. Karl was and remains an idiot. GP absolutely ate up MJ in one of the regular season games too. My friend has that game on tape, watched it a few weeks ago and MJ was held to 1/8 shooting in the second half (that's when GP was guarding him) and 6/19 for the game. GP also flatout stripped him on the last play of the game.

Kobe and MJ would be a slight edge to MJ in a playoff series. Barely.

Because Kobe is in the same stratosphere defensively as a prime Gary Payton right?:rolleyes: :rolleyes: You're comparing about one of the greatest defensive players of all time(Glove) to one of the most overrated defenders in NBA history(Kobe). Carmelo Anthony was bullying him in the 2009 WCF. If Melo was doing that to him, imagine what MJ would do. :oldlol: There were a couple plays in that series when he and Melo were wrestling for rebounding position, and Melo just swatted him off like he was a fly:roll: Hell, Bonzi Wells used to sh*t on this chump when he was with Portland. He would post his punk @$$ up all day. Jordan would have a field day with this clown. :oldlol:

This thread was going along perfectly with everyone recollecting their favorite Jordan stories until that idiot G-train came in with his stupid comments and opened the flood gates. In the Finals, Kobe's been outplayed by Reggie Miller, Jalen Rose, Allen Iverson, Richard Hamilton, Paul Pierce, and Ray Allen. He's never had a postseason where he's shot 50% from the field. 2006 is awfully close, but is marred by his incredible choke job after being up 3-1 and then topping it off by quitting on his team in Game 7 no less. Jordan would eat this clown for breakfast. Kobe is more similar to Wizards MJ than any other version of him. :roll:

[vinsane01]

Im glad the lakers didnt get into the finals because if they did, this forum would be flooded with this types of kobe vs jordan threads + the hijacked threads... Again.

[JtotheIzzo]

Not sure if this counts, but Jordan once tried to convince other Bulls teammates to ice Bill Cartwright out of the offense.


Sam Smith, in ""The Jordan Rules"" wrote that Jordan had no respect for Cartwright, told his teammates to keep the ball away from Cartwright in crucial late-game situations (even if coach Doug Collins called a play involving Cartwright), and bellittled the veteran publicly. Cartwright confronted Jordan:

Excerpt: He didn't do or say anything to anybody until late that season, when he told Jordan he needed to talk to him.

There was little small talk exchanged. "I don't like the things I've heard you saying about me," Cartwright told Jordan.

Jordan stared at him.

"If I ever hear again that you're telling guys not to pass me the ball," Cartwright continued, "you will never play basketball again."



except he didn't really say "you will never play basketball again." he said he'd break both his f*cking legs.

MJ didn't f*ck with Bill much after that.

[Jacks3]

Kobe dropped 55 on Jordan.

Kobe as a rookie torched Jordan.

What would prime Kobe do?

He'd shit on him.

:oldlol:

[CelticBaller]

Kobe dropped 55 on Jordan.

Kobe as a rookie torched Jordan.

What would prime Kobe do?

He'd shit on him.

:oldlol:
a post prime jordan?

he wouldn't do shit against prime jordan

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

What retarded logic is this. He averaged 33/56% TS vs the Suns. And he had better series against much better defensive teams in the next 2-3 years.

The logic that debunk your arguments. In 2006, his best scoring season, he averaged 27.9ppg against that Suns team. Kobe averaged 32 on 46% shooting vs them a year later. 46% shooting against a team that plays NO defense. There's no chance he's averaging 30 against the Bulls defense unless it's on poor efficiency. Find your brain.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe dropped 55 on Jordan.

Kobe as a rookie torched Jordan.

What would prime Kobe do?

He'd shit on him.

:oldlol:

Kobe scored ZERO of those points on Jordan. Educate yourself.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Really there isn't much that seperates Kobe and Jordan as players. It's basically a pick 'em .

Wrong. Jordan did EVERYTHING better than Kobe other than shoot 3s and FTs (where they are equal). Even most Kobe fans, realize Jordan was better and it’s not even an argument.

In comparing the two, Phil (who coached both) pointed out all the various ways Jordan was superior. One of those ways was his ability to shoot 50% so many seasons. This debate is like you saying there are invisible pink elephants flying around us, and me telling you there isn't. Everybody knows Jordan is better than Kobe: Phil, Tex Winter, and even most Kobe fans, like Alphawolf.

[Harison]

Welcome back Kobe trolls :applause: After massive trolling by Rose, Wade, and now Dirk homers, I kinda missed you guys (not) :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

The logic that debunk your arguments. In 2006, his best scoring season, he averaged 27.9ppg against that Suns team. Kobe averaged 32 on 46% shooting vs them a year later. 46% shooting against a team that plays NO defense. There's no chance he's averaging 30 against the Bulls defense unless it's on poor efficiency. Find your brain.
Your "logic" doesn't make sense. The only reason he "only" averaged 28 PPG on 59% TS against the Suns is because the Lakers game-plan that series was to attack the Suns interior and have Kobe play more as a facilitator/passer. The next year he put up 33 PPG on 56% TS against them. In 2010 he put up 34 PPG on 62%! TS again. Also, again, he's had better series against much better defensive teams, so your "logic" has already been disproved. Find your brain man.

[Jacks3]

Kobe scored ZERO of those points on Jordan. Educate yourself.
55 on Jordan's Wizards. :oldlol:

[andgar923]

Kobe dropped 55 on Jordan.

Kobe as a rookie torched Jordan.

What would prime Kobe do?

He'd shit on him.

:oldlol:

He probably scored no more than 6 points total on him in both games combined... stop it.

[Jacks3]

Phil Jackson

[Jacks3]

He probably scored no more than 6 points total on him in both games combined... stop it.
Because Jordan was too much of a bitch to guard him. He knew he'd get destroyed, as his prime version would. :pimp:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Your "logic" doesn't make sense. The only reason he "only" averaged 28 PPG on 59% TS against the Suns is because the Lakers game-plan that series was to attack the Suns interior and have Kobe play more as a facilitator/scorer. The net year he put up 33 PPG on 56% TS against them. In 2010 he put up 34 PPG on 62%! TS again. Also, again, he's had better series against much better defensive teams, so your "logic" has already been disproved. Find your brain man.

It doesn't matter what the Lakers game plan was. Kobe was the best scoring option on that team. In fact, he threw the "game plan" away when he scored 50 points in Game 6 and STILL lost. He put up 32.7ppg on 46% shooting; against a TERRIBLE defensive team. There's simply no reason to believe he'd average 30, much less shoot above 45% against a defense like the '92 Bulls. Historically speaking, Kobe has always struggled against elite defenses. Again, find your brain. Maurice Evans is right though. Ginobili agrees. Kobe hates physical play. It upsets him and upsets his game. That's why he struggled so much vs. the pistons. He would face that all the time in Jordan's era, and more.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

55 on Jordan's Wizards. :oldlol:

And zero points on Jordan. Educate yourself, tiny dancer.

[Jacks3]

It doesn't matter what the Lakers game plan was. Kobe was the best scoring option on that team. In fact, he threw the "game plan" away when he scored 50 points in Game 6 and STILL lost. He put up 32.7ppg on 46% shooting; against a TERRIBLE defensive team. There's simply no reason to believe he'd average 30, much less shoot above 45% against a defense like the '92 Bulls. Historically speaking, Kobe has always struggled against elite defenses. Again, find your brain. Maurice Evans is right though. Ginobili agrees. Kobe hates physical play. It upsets him and upsets his game. That's why he struggled so much vs. the pistons. He would face that all the time in Jordan's era, and more.
Wow. You're dense.

This is your logic:

Kobe put up 28 PPG on 59% TS against the Suns, so how could he do better against a much better defensive team?

But yet he's already had multiple series where he did better against much better defensive teams.

Your logic fails. :oldlol:

And the 92 Bulls weren't a elite defense. They were 7th in the league and had a 105.0 DRTG. Kobe has put up 30-32/56-58% TS against similar defenses many times. :oldlol:

And Kobe had two of his best seasons in the toughest, most physical defensive era in history--99-04--so the idea that he doesn't well against "physicality" is laughable.

Find your brain man.

[Jacks3]

And zero points on Jordan. Educate yourself, tiny dancer.
Because Jordan was too big a scared bitch to guard him. He knew he'd get that ass torched...as 92 Jordan would. 55. :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

But yet he's already had multiple series where he did better against much better defensive teams.

In his prime? Name a better series against an elite defnense he's shot over 48% against? Name one that he's averaged that many points on ATLEAST a 58+TS%?


Your logic fails. :oldlol:

And the 92 Bulls weren't a elite defense. They were 7th in the league and had a 105.0 DRTG. Kobe has put up 30-32/56-58% TS against similar defenses many times. :oldlol:

Yes they were. In the playoffs they were very elite in fact. Again, name the series' against an elite defense he put up 30 on 58 and/or above TS%.


And Kobe had two of his best seasons in the toughest, most physical defensive era in history--99-04--so the idea that he doesn't well against "physicality" is laughable.

Wrong retard.

With the lax perimeter defense rules today, and the fact that offenses are so centered around perimeter players, Jordan, if he tried, could easily average 40+ ppg. Kobe in 2006 took a higher % of his team''s shots than MJ ever did, even in 86-87 when he averaged 37.1. Put Jordan, and his increased efficiency in Kobe's place that year, and Jordan averages 40.

Kobe is not "dominating" anyone. He shot 40% in the finals, and went 6-24 in game 7. The worst game 7 shooting EVER for a player taking 24+ shots. He shot 24% in the fourth quarter in the series. LMAO. Kobe was bailed out by his team.

[Jacks3]

In his prime? Name a better series against an elite defnense he's shot over 48% against? Name one that he's averaged that many points on ATLEAST a 58+TS%?
They don't have to be "elite". They just have to me much better than the 07 Suns, who you used for your retarded logic. :oldlol:



Yes they were. In the playoffs they were very elite in fact. Again, name the series' against an elite defense he put up 30 on 58 and/or above TS%.

105.0 DRTG. 7th in league. lol @ being elite when they weren't even top 5 that year. :oldlol:
They don't have to be "elite". They just have to me much better than the 07 Suns, who you used for your retarded logic.


Wrong retard.

With the lax perimeter defense rules today, and the fact that offenses are so centered around perimeter players, Jordan, if he tried, could easily average 40+ ppg. Kobe in 2006 took a higher % of his team''s shots than MJ ever did, even in 86-87 when he averaged 37.1. Put Jordan, and his increased efficiency in Kobe's place that year, and Jordan averages 40.
What does this have to do with my post?

"And Kobe had two of his best seasons in the toughest, most physical defensive era in history--99-04--so the idea that he doesn't well against "physicality" is laughable. "

And then you respond with a wild tangent that had nothing to do with my post. :oldlol:


Kobe is not "dominating" anyone. He shot 40% in the finals, and went 6-24 in game 7. The worst game 7 shooting EVER for a player taking 24+ shots. He shot 24% in the fourth quarter in the series. LMAO. Kobe was bailed out by his team.
Another wild tangent. :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Because Jordan was too big a scared bitch to guard him. He knew he'd get that ass torched...as 92 Jordan would. 55. :oldlol:

Jordan would destroy Kobe, just like he did in his h2h's before his tenure in Washington. Educate yourself.

[Jacks3]

Jordan would destroy Kobe, just like he did in his h2h during his tenure before Washington. Educate yourself.
Kobe would destroy Jordan, just like he did as a rookie/2nd player, and just like he did in the early 00's. Educate yourself.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

They don't have to be "elite". They just have to me much better than the 07 Suns, who you used for your retarded logic. :oldlol:

You're not even making sense now, tiny dancer. They have to me much? Find your brain. Fact is, the Bulls were 4th in DRTG, and Kobe hasn't averaged 30 on a 56-58%TS against a top 5 defense in his prime, much less a defense of that caliber.


105.0 DRTG. 7th in league. lol @ being elite when they weren't even top 5 that year. :oldlol:
They don't have to be "elite". They just have to me much better than the 07 Suns, who you used for your retarded logic.

The '92 Bulls had a 104.5 DRTG -- 4th in the league. LMAO. Dude.. you are way green aren't you?



What does this have to do with my post?

Everything. Jordan would destroy the elite defenses of this league, while Kobe would struggle against the elite defenses then.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Kobe would destroy Jordan, just like he did as a rookie/2nd player, and just like he did in the early 00's. Educate yourself.

Wrong, he never "destroyed" Jordan. He's definitely piled it on the Bulls (their second-team) :oldlol:

Educate yourself, worm.

[Laimbeer_Rodman]

Everything. Jordan would destroy the elite defenses of this league, while Kobe would struggle against the elite defenses then.
Prime Kobe would dominate 40yrs old Jordan.Deal with it

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Prime Kobe would dominate 40yrs old Jordan.Deal with it

Just like prime Jordan would dominate 32 year-old Kobe.