Lets Be Real: The overrating of Wade's 2011 Finals performance has to STOP!

[Bladers]

There is nothing more sick than hearing wade fans and dumb basketball fans whore over Wade's performance without any clue of what's going on.

Over the last couple of days, he have had fans claim, oh Wade is the best Finals performer, Wade is better than Jordan/Kobe in Finals performance.

Its time to put his performance in perspective.

In the last 16 years, here are the teams that made it to the finals with their defensive rating. Wade has played two of them. He has never played a team with a top 5 defense in the Finals. He has played the same soft Mavs who have no legit bigs twice.


1. 1998-99 San Antonio Spurs - 95.0
2. 2003-04 Detroit Pistons Roster - 95.4
3. 1998-99 New York Knickerbockers - 97.5
5. 2002-03 New Jersey Nets - 98.1
6. 1999-00 Los Angeles Lakers - 98.2
7. 2004-05 San Antonio Spurs - 98.8
8. 2000-01 Philadelphia 76ers - 98.9
9. 2007-08 Boston Celtics - 98.9
10. 2001-02 New Jersey - 99.5
11. 2002-03 San Antonio Spurs - 99.7
12. 1997-98 Chicago Bulls - 99.8
13. 2006-07 San Antonio Spurs - 99.9
14. 2004-05 Detroit Pistons - 101.2
15. 2003-04 Los Angeles Lakers - 101.3
16. 2006-07 Cleveland Cavaliers -101.3
17. 2001-02 Los Angeles Lakers - 101.7
18. 1995-96 Chicago Bulls - 101.8
19. 2008-09 Orlando Magic - 101.9
20. 1995-96 Seattle SuperSonics - 102.1
21. 1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 102.4
22. 2010-11 Miami Heat - 103.5
23. 1999-00 Indiana Pacers - 103.6
24. 2009-10 Los Angeles Lakers - 103.7
25. 2009-10 Boston Celtics - 103.8
26. 1996-97 Utah Jazz - 104.0
27. 2005-06 Miami Heat - 104.5
28. 2008-09 Los Angeles Lakers - 104.7
29. 2000-01 Los Angeles Lakers - 104.8
30. 2005-06 Dallas Mavericks - 105.0
31. 2010-11 Dallas Mavericks - 105.0
32. 1997-98 Utah Jazz - 105.4
33. 2007-08 Los Angeles Lakers - 105.5


Wade has had the luxury to play against the worst defensive team in the last decade that has made the finals. And probably the worst interior defense that has made the finals EVER!

There's no interior defense what so ever, no shot blockers, nothing.
This is why you hear JVG always shouting, Where are the Dallas bigs? Where are they? The lanes are always wide open, no help. Its almost comical and yet people fail to understand that.

Secondly, Wade is a one dimensional scorer. Easily shut down. He scores all his points through pick and rolls. He had a bad series even against the sixers because they had good defensive bigs that knew how to play the pick and roll and could defend the paint.

Mavs do not.

Here is what happens during these pick and rolls. Wade uses the pick and roll with bosh, Chandler rolls all the way OUT there(which is bad.) Then all Wade does is drive past chandler and after that. NO one comes to help, Dirk soft self just stands there and Wade comes and lay it in. Its the same terrible defense, all wade does is rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.

This is why you heard JVG every game saying, WHERE ARE THE DALLAS BIGS! WHERE ARE THE DALLAS BIGS! Wade is dominating mav's poor defense. But was shut down by chicago why? Because when he used the pick and roll with bosh, noah didn't roll all the way out, nor did he sag too far back.

He had distance between him and wade, which means if Wade decides to take a jumper, he can contest it, if he decides to drive (Which is what he wants to do) He can stop the drive and block his shot attempt. The Wade P&R was useless against chicago and that's why wade was shutdown.

I have said it time and time again, Wade is a one dimensional scorer. If he can't get to the rim, he resorts to pump fakes to get to the free throw line. The reason wade is non-existent in the Clutch and have to take those foolish threes and misses them. Its because in the clutch, the mavs switch to the zone.

This negates all of wades attempts to drive. Because the lane is completely clogged. He also sometimes hard doubles him. This is why Wade has SO MANY late turnovers in the 4th quarter. This is why he's getting shut down in the clutch.

This is mainly why he can't crack 40. He has no jump-shot.

If he doesn't get to the rim he is useless. Now you say, but Lebron? He's having a bad series. Lebron has relied on his jumper all playoffs, now he is crumbling under the pressure of the finals and performing to Jordan's standard. He lacks mental fortitude, Because of that, his jumpers have been shaky. If you watch the games closes, kidd doesn't even contest his threes anymore. Its almost comical and he still misses them!

Lebron James shines when nobody expects him to, like against boston, against chicago. Everybody said he would choke etc...

Do you remember the return game in Cleveland this year? Everybody expected him to choke in the moment of ultimate hate and pressure. He DESTROYED them. It was because nobody expected him to do it, everybody said he would crumble into the fetal position.

But when people began comparing him to Jordan he shrinks and disappears because the pressure to perform to that level is too great. Its in his mind when he shoots. Like 2007 in the finals and last year.

When Pipen said he going to surpass Jordan, his exceptions flew into the headlines. Everyone expected him to hit every shot he took, the pressure and expectations were high, so he just died on the court.

In conclusion: Wade isn't doing anything special, he is just exploiting BAD BAD interior defense.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

:eek: Never thought id see u post on this account again (thought it was perma banned)



bladers one of the original kobe stan big 3 has returned :bowdown:

TheLogo :bowdown: :bowdown:
Grriffmoney :oldlol: :oldlol: :roll:
Bladers :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Ronaldinho]

:eek: Never thought id see u post on this account again (thought it was perma banned)



bladers one of the original kobe stan big 3 has returned :bowdown:
:roll: who is the big 3?

[kaiiu]

:roll: who is the big 3?

TheLogo
Grriffmoney
Bladers

O.G original ganstas :bowdown:

[LEFT4DEAD]

2006 Finals are historic because of 0:2 comback let alone every game. This year's finals have been one of the lowest scoring all time with great defences on both sides and Wade is still averaging Jordanesque performance and stats with high efficiency.


So you can continue to suck Kobe's dick, as I guess thats what have you been doing all this time without posting shit after Lakers' lose and Miami's advancing to the finals. I guess you will be back on that after Heat take two more at home.


Over the last couple of days, he have had fans claim, oh Wade is the best Finals performer, Wade is better than Jordan/Kobe in Finals performance.


And yeah, :lol at putting Kobe in the same sentence with top 5 finals performers ever. What number is Kobe, under or over 50?

[KingBeasley08]

TheLogo :bowdown: :bowdown:
Grriffmoney :oldlol: :oldlol: :roll:
Bladers :bowdown: :bowdown:
the three greats :bowdown: :bowdown:

[PJR]

The fact that you mad a post that long in attempt to denounce Wade's play is kind of pathetic. :oldlol:

[Xabit]

Hulk is one of my favorite posters he is really good

[Ronaldinho]

Hulk is one of my favorite posters he is really good
Agreed.I like that phong guy too.

[pmj]

Considering what Kobe and Lebron did/are doing against the Mavs this year, how can you not say it's a great performance?

Defensive ratings are great and all, but you have a direct comparison versus what pretty much the other consensus top 2 players in the league did.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

From 'Bladers' to 'Hulk Hogan to "The Decision' and back to 'Bladers'... how and WHY does this nerd continue to get unbanned?

[Xabit]

From 'Bladers' to 'Hulk Hogan to "The Decision' and back to 'Bladers'... how and WHY does this nerd continue to get unbanned?

because he actually contributes to this forum unlike other ppl

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

because he actually contributes to this forum unlike other ppl

Contribute to what, irrelevance?

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

So this is the infamous Bladers?

Nice to meet you Hulk..my bad I mean my nig

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

So this is the infamous Bladers?

Nice to meet you Hulk..my bad I mean my nig

Why did you delete your post from the other thread?

[NBASTATMAN]

Lebron may have shrunk but Wade and Dirk have played at the highest level.. Kobe stans just can't stand thAT fact :roll:

[KingBeasley08]

Its nice that you're back bro but no offense, you were always 2nd fiddle to TheLogo (like Wade's Lebron). Where's the greatest Kobe Stan at? Did he get IP banned? :lol

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Lebron may have shrunk but Wade and Dirk have played at the highest level.. Kobe stans just can't stand thAT fact :roll:

17 points his last two games. GOAT scorer and in elimination games :applause:

[Bladers]

2006 Finals are historic because of 0:2 comback


25 and 21 freethrows for the last 2 games?
Yes that is the only thing historic about it!



let alone every game. This year's finals have been one of the lowest scoring all time with great defences on both sides and Wade is still averaging Jordanesque performance and stats with high efficiency.



Low scoring doesn't mean great defense. It means you are missing shots.
Mavs have been missing easy make-able shots all series. Shots they have made all playoffs series and guess what? Last game they started making them and scored over 110 points. Secondly, Miami is not a great offensive team, its Wade, Bosh and Lebron and that's it.

Again my point is, Wade is again playing the worst defensive team in the last decade and the worst interior defensive team in finals history.

But yet we hear people saying, He's the best finals performer.
I heard a wade fan say, Mavs have the best defense in the league.
I almost regurgitated my breakfast. I knew I had to get back on ISH and set people straight!

I can't tell you how many times over this series JVG has said: Where the Fcuk are the BIGS?

Its a layup drill out there with the pick and roll!

[Bladers]

TheLogo :bowdown: :bowdown:
Grriffmoney :oldlol: :oldlol:
Bladers :bowdown:


the three greats :bowdown: :bowdown:


O.G original ganstas :bowdown:

Thank you for the welcome back party... I Appreciate! :cheers: :cheers:

[LEFT4DEAD]

25 and 21 freethrows for the last 2 games?
Yes that is the only thing historic about it!



Low scoring doesn't mean great defense. It means you are missing shots.
Mavs have been missing easy make-able shots all series. Shots they have made all playoffs series and guess what? Last game they started making them and scored over 110 points. Secondly, Miami is not a great offensive team, its Wade, Bosh and Lebron and that's it.

Again my point is, Wade is again playing the worst defensive team in the last decade and the worst interior defensive team in finals history.

I can't tell you how many times over this series JVG has said: Where the Fcuk are the BIGS?

Its a layup drill out there with the pick and roll!
:facepalm :confusedshrug:

[Bladers]

:facepalm :confusedshrug:

Look, I heard a wade fan say, Mavs have the best defense in the league!
Yes, they said it! I almost regurgitated my breakfast. I knew I had to get back on ISH and set people straight!

[Smoke117]

Defensive rating on it's own is only relevant if you are a moron. What matters is defensive rating to other teams and individually players to their teams. I don't know the Mavs or their relation to the teams, I just wanted to express this fact.

[LEFT4DEAD]

Look, I heard a wade fan say, Mavs have the best defense in the league!
Yes, they said it! I almost regurgitated my breakfast. I knew I had to get back on ISH and set people straight!
I thought you have killed yourself after so many fails in this season. But I must say, you are one though m****a. Dont look at your fails, just keep on with life. Thats how everybody should do. :cheers:

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Why did you delete your post from the other thread?

Huh? I didn't delete any post. Are you talking about the "Has anyone ever called Jordan out before?" thread? I didn't delete anything

[guy]

Wade has definitely been a better finals performer then Kobe. Not sure why he was even mentioned.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Wade has definitely been a better finals performer then Kobe. Not sure why he was even mentioned.

People love dragging Kobe into debates for no reason.

[DMAVS41]

People love dragging Kobe into debates for no reason.

Because of the OP.

Do you really think we'd be getting a "Kobe is over-rated thread" if he was playing like Wade is in the finals this year?

28/7/5 shooting 58%.

Talk about biased hate. LOL

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Because of the OP.

Do you really think we'd be getting a "Kobe is over-rated thread" if he was playing like Wade is in the finals this year?

28/7/5 shooting 58%.

Talk about biased hate. LOL

The OP was who I was talking about. The rest of you guys just followed suit

[Bladers]

Because of the OP.

Do you really think we'd be getting a "Kobe is over-rated thread" if he was playing like Wade is in the finals this year?

28/7/5 shooting 58%.

Talk about biased hate. LOL

Against one of the worst defensive team in finals history and the worst in the last decade.

The overatting is this: "Wade is the best finals performer since Jordan" or "better than Jordan"

That's just blasphemy!

If chicago was in the finals, Wade would be putting up 18ppg on 40% shooting and 5 tovs!

[Rysio]

Because of the OP.

Do you really think we'd be getting a "Kobe is over-rated thread" if he was playing like Wade is in the finals this year?

28/7/5 shooting 58%.

Talk about biased hate. LOL
heat are down 2-3 who cares

[Bring-Your-Js]

Lol @ this CRAP

[PJR]

Against one of the worst defensive team in finals history and the worst in the last decade.

The overatting is this: "Wade is the best finals performer since Jordan" or "better than Jordan"

That's just blasphemy!

If chicago was in the finals, Wade would be putting up 18ppg on 40% shooting and 5 tovs!

I like how you gloss over Wade's performance against Boston. Another elite defense, in which Wade too had a ridiculous series against. :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

The OP was who I was talking about. The rest of you guys just followed suit

That was my first post in this thread. LOL

[jbryan1984]

I don't think he is the best but the series would be over if it wasn't for him.

[Bring-Your-Js]

I like how you gloss over Wade's performance against Boston. Another elite defense, in which Wade too had a ridiculous series against. :oldlol:

Wade dropped 33 ppg on 56% against Boston last year, 30 on 53% against Boston this year. And for good measure, 27 on 62% against the Pistons in the ECF.

[Papaya Petee]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Kobe vs Dallas 22\4\3 46%
Wade vs Dallas 28\7\5 58%


Kobe vs Boston 28\8\4 40%
Wade vs Boston 33\7\6 56%
Wade vs Boston 30\7\5 53%

Kobe vs Pistons 22\4\4 38% 4 TO
Wade vs Pistons 28\6\6 60%

[Bring-Your-Js]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Kobe vs Dallas 22\4\3 46%
Wade vs Dallas 28\7\5 58%


Kobe vs Boston 28\8\4 40%
Wade vs Boston 33\7\6 56%
Wade vs Boston 30\7\5 53%

Kobe vs Pistons 22\4\4 38% 4 TO
Wade vs Pistons 28\6\6 60%

Wade is one of the coldest and greatest post-season (especially in the Finals thus far) performers of All Time.

[Doctor Rivers]

Wade is one of the coldest and greatest post-season (especially in the Finals thus far) performers of All Time.

Pretty much. I mean he's right there with Jordan and might even finish ahead of him.

[DMAVS41]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Kobe vs Dallas 22\4\3 46%
Wade vs Dallas 28\7\5 58%


Kobe vs Boston 28\8\4 40%
Wade vs Boston 33\7\6 56%
Wade vs Boston 30\7\5 53%

Kobe vs Pistons 22\4\4 38% 4 TO
Wade vs Pistons 28\6\6 60%

Damn.

You almost forget how big of a difference there is between the two at times.

[Bladers]

Damn.

You almost forget how big of a difference there is between the two at times.

You are an idiot...

2004 pistons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2006 pistons.

Kobe averaged 40 pts against the 2006 pistons! :roll: :roll: :roll:

2010 Finals Celtics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010 First Round/2011 Celtics


18pts, 40%, 4tovs

Not even debatable! :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

You are an idiot...

2004 pistons >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2006 pistons.

Kobe averaged 40 pts against the 2006 pistons! :roll: :roll: :roll:

2008/2010 Finals Celtics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010 First Round/2011 Celtics


18pts, 40%, 4tovs

Not even debatable! :oldlol:


What about the 05 Pistons?

What about the 10 Celtics?

What about the 08 Olympics?


:facepalm

And stop posting stats from Kobe in the regular season. Meaningless. Why does anyone here care about what these guys do in a sample of a few meaningless regular season games.

Give me the playoffs please.

[Bladers]

What about the 05 Pistons?

What about the 10 Celtics?

What about the 08 Olympics?


:facepalm


04 pistons (95.4) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 05 pistons (101.2)

Can't even be compared...:roll: :roll: :roll:

Olympics... WTF? :roll: :roll:

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l0AhR-LEfg

Edit: Reg season is meanless...??? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[tpols]

What about the 05 Pistons?
.
Still not acknowledging the massive difference in DRtg. You're such a coward.:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

04 pistons (95.4) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 05 pistons (101.2)

Can't even be compared...:roll: :roll: :roll:

Olympics... WTF? :roll: :roll:

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l0AhR-LEfg

Defensive rating across years? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

LOL

You're better than that Hulk.

But if it has to be the same year and same team.

10 Celtics?
11 Mavs?

Ouch. Not even comparable.

Kobe did manage to shoot over 45% against the Mavs this year. An amazing accomplishment for a career 44.8% shooter in the playoffs.

Ouch. Not even comparable.

[Heat007]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=226023


Playoff PER on title runs

1996 Bulls
Jordan---------26.7
Pippen---------19.4

1998 Bulls
Jordan---------28.1
Pippen---------19.5

2000 Lakers
Shaq-----------30.5
Kobe------------19.3

2001 Lakers
Shaq------------29.7
Kobe------------23.8

2002 Lakers
Shaq------------28.3
Kobe-------------20.5

2006 Heat
Wade------------27.4
Shaq-------------19.8

2011 Heat
Wade------------27.3
LeBron----------24.9






/thread

[DMAVS41]

Still not acknowledging the massive difference in DRtg. You're such a coward.:oldlol:

Its the same freaking team. Kobe would have had to shoot 15% higher to be comparable to Wade.

LOL

Stop with the ****ing excuses. Its pathetic.

Almost as pathetic as you blaming Fisher for Kobe's inability to make game winning shots in the playoffs.

Doesn't get weaker than that tpols, but I would expect about as much from you.

LOL

[KOLBCTEW]

2010 Finals Celtics >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 2010 First Round/2011 Celtics

Not even debatable! :oldlol:
If anything the fact the Celtics were facing a far inferior Heat squad as the only one they had to actually worry about was Wade, they'd have a much greater luxury of focusing their entire defense on him(which they did ) yet they still couldn't stop him..

[DMAVS41]

If anything the fact the Celtics were facing a far inferior Heat squad as the only one they had to actually worry about was Wade, they'd have a much greater luxury of focusing their entire defense on him(which they did ) yet they still couldn't stop him..

Yep.

[catch24]

Damn.

You almost forget how big of a difference there is between the two at times.

Re-reading the thread, I thought you just got done saying there isn't that much of a difference and that you were OK with people thinking Kobe was better?

Btw Huggies, stop posting regular season stats... They're meaningless.

[DMAVS41]

Re-reading the thread, I thought you just got done saying there isn't that much of a difference and that you were OK with people thinking Kobe was better?

Btw Huggies, stop posting regular season stats... They're meaningless.

You should re-read my post and focus on the "AT TIMES" part.

[Bladers]

Its the same freaking team. Kobe would have had to shoot 15% higher to be comparable to Wade.

LOL

Stop with the ****ing excuses. Its pathetic.

Almost as pathetic as you blaming Fisher for Kobe's inability to make game winning shots in the playoffs.

Doesn't get weaker than that tpols, but I would expect about as much from you.

LOL

Why did Kobe then suck against them in the reg season in 04 and kill them in 06 then? 40 pts average on +50% :roll: :roll:

Same team... Is that why their defensive rating kept going up? 95.4...101.2...103.1 :roll: :roll:

Just because they have Detroit on the back of the jersey every year doesn't mean they play the same kind of defense!:oldlol:

[tpols]

Its the same freaking team.
Why because it said 'Detroit' on the front of the Jersey? What a fvcking joke.:oldlol:

The 04 pistons are an all time great defensive team.. the 05 and 06 pistons are not. They had to massively change the way they played because of the rule changes that didn't allow them to play the same type of physical ball.

Once again you get shitted on.

[PJR]

Kobe fanatics = scum of the earth.

[DMAVS41]

Why did Kobe then suck against them in the reg season in 04 and kill them in 06 then? :roll: :roll:

Same team... Is that why their defensive rating kept going up? 95.4...101.2...103.1 :roll: :roll:

Just because they have Detroit on the back of the jersey every year doesn't mean they play the same kind of defense!:oldlol:

Nobody is saying they were as good defensively. That is just a fact.

However, you posting some meaningless regular season stats is pointless.

The 04 Pistons are probably the most over-rated team ever by Lakers/Kobe fans.

They went 7 with the freaking Nets with a fellow named Kerry Kittles playing about as good as Kobe did.

:eek:

[Heat007]

2005 Pistons = #1 ranked defense in the league (Heavy favorites to win the title all year long


2006 Pistons = #1 ranked defense in the league; (with a franchise record 64 wins that year and the heavy favorites to win the title all year long and through the playoffs before Wade destroyed them)


Their defensive efficiency numbers those 2 seasons were off the charts. Stop being total idiots... then again, you're kobetards

[DMAVS41]

Why because it said 'Detroit' on the front of the Jersey? What a fvcking joke.:oldlol:

The 04 pistons are an all time great defensive team.. the 05 and 06 pistons are not. They had to massively change the way they played because of the rule changes that didn't allow them to play the same type of physical ball.

Once again you get shitted on.

Shitted on?

What?

Everyone had to adjust. Not just the Pistons. The Pistons were still an elite defensive team in both 05 and 06. They just played Duncan in 05 and Wade in 06.

Trust me, if Kobe had played them again both years he would have lost....

Finals pressure just does something to people. Kobe hasn't handled it well. Wade thrives on it.

I love how you want defensive rules changes to explain damn near 20% differences in efficiency.

Once again you get shitted on.

[catch24]

You should re-read my post and focus on the "AT TIMES" part.

I read what you said, that's why I asked you the question. What is the difference (at times)?

[tpols]

Nobody is saying they were as good defensively. That is just a fact.

And here it is.:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

I read what you said, that's why I asked you the question. What is the difference (at times)?

Wade's ability to raise his games to levels against the best defensive teams.

At times, that is a big difference between the two players.

[DMAVS41]

And here it is.:oldlol:

Here what is?

If they played comparably at all it would be a valid argument. But when the gap is that big you just can't chalk it all up to a rules change. And I might add.....a rules change that didn't help kobe against another great defense in the finals in 08 or 10.

How much evidence do you need?

[Heat007]

Wade's ability to raise his games to levels against the best defensive teams.

At times, that is a big difference between the two players.

yup

Kobe shot Under 30% in the 4th quarters of the last 2 Finals.

His whole career he's been getting bailed out by his teammates. Two straight under 30% shooting performances in two 7-game series in the Finals is atrocious. Clutch my a$$ !

[Bladers]

Wade's ability to raise his games to levels against the best defensive teams.

At times, that is a big difference between the two players.

18pts, 40%, 5tovs?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[catch24]

Wade's ability to raise his games to levels against the best defensive teams.

At times, that is a big difference between the two players.

Do you concede the 2004 Pistons were much better defensively? I'm not going to debate the 2010 nor the 2011 Celtics. Wade destroyed them; Kobe did not. But do you really believe Wade 'destroyed' the SAME Pistons Kobe and Shaq faced in the 2004 Finals?

[tpols]

a rules change that didn't help kobe against another great defense in the finals in 08 or 10.

What does 08 or 10 have to do with anything? Those teams sprung up after the rule changes and never had to adjust or re route the way they played defense..

And what about 09 there buddy? #1 ranked D.:pimp:

[PJR]

18pts, 40%, 5tovs?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Almost as bad as Kobe's 2000 finals against the Pacers. Not quite, though.

[DMAVS41]

18pts, 40%, 5tovs?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

that is his only bad playoff series against a good defense in his career. lol

i love it. still better than kobe's performance in the 2000 finals.

:applause:

[Rysio]

Wade's ability to raise his games to levels against the best defensive teams.

At times, that is a big difference between the two players.
he did that amazingly in the ecf :applause:

[Heat007]

18pts, 40%, 5tovs?
:

Wade shot 55% in the 4th quarters of that series., played shutdown D, and rebounded like a machine. Very clutch on offense and clutch on defense making defensive plays in the 4th quarters.. he was a clear difference maker in that series.

Meanwhile. Kobe "the stringbean" Bryant shot under 30% in the 4th quarters of the last 2 Finals :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

What does 08 or 10 have to do with anything? Those teams sprung up after the rule changes and never had to adjust or re route the way they played defense..

And what about 09 there buddy? #1 ranked D.:pimp:

What about 09?

When he just jacked and jacked and jacked?

Didn't he average like 27 shots a game in that series? ROFL

[Bladers]

that is his only bad playoff series against a good defense in his career. lol

i love it. still better than kobe's performance in the 2000 finals.

:applause:

He hasn't played many good defense even his career! :oldlol:

and Kobe played a better defensive team in 2000.

Last 16 years of the finals!

1. 1998-99 San Antonio Spurs - 95.0
2. 2003-04 Detroit Pistons Roster - 95.4
3. 1998-99 New York Knickerbockers - 97.5
5. 2002-03 New Jersey Nets - 98.1
6. 1999-00 Los Angeles Lakers - 98.2
7. 2004-05 San Antonio Spurs - 98.8
8. 2000-01 Philadelphia 76ers - 98.9
9. 2007-08 Boston Celtics - 98.9
10. 2001-02 New Jersey - 99.5
11. 2002-03 San Antonio Spurs - 99.7
12. 1997-98 Chicago Bulls - 99.8
13. 2006-07 San Antonio Spurs - 99.9
14. 2004-05 Detroit Pistons - 101.2
15. 2003-04 Los Angeles Lakers - 101.3
16. 2006-07 Cleveland Cavaliers -101.3
17. 2001-02 Los Angeles Lakers - 101.7
18. 1995-96 Chicago Bulls - 101.8
19. 2008-09 Orlando Magic - 101.9
20. 1995-96 Seattle SuperSonics - 102.1
21. 1996-97 Chicago Bulls - 102.4
22. 2010-11 Miami Heat - 103.5
23. 1999-00 Indiana Pacers - 103.6
24. 2009-10 Los Angeles Lakers - 103.7
25. 2009-10 Boston Celtics - 103.8
26. 1996-97 Utah Jazz - 104.0
27. 2005-06 Miami Heat - 104.5
28. 2008-09 Los Angeles Lakers - 104.7
29. 2000-01 Los Angeles Lakers - 104.8
30. 2005-06 Dallas Mavericks - 105.0
31. 2010-11 Dallas Mavericks - 105.0
32. 1997-98 Utah Jazz - 105.4
33. 2007-08 Los Angeles Lakers - 105.5

[Heat007]

Wade shot 55% in the 4th quarters of that series., played shutdown D, and rebounded like a machine. Very clutch on offense and clutch on defense making defensive plays in the 4th quarters.. he was a clear difference maker in that series.

Meanwhile. Kobe "the stringbean" Bryant shot under 30% in the 4th quarters of the last 2 Finals :oldlol:

And I would just like to add, Wade has never come close to shooting under 30% in the 4th quarters of ANY series in his life.

Kobe did it twice in the last 2 Finals ! lol. And I am sure there is a lot more playoff series where Kobe shot like hot garbage in 4th quarters and i will research this next week. But I already researched Wade and he never came close to shooting as bad as under 30% in his career in the 4th quarters for a series.

I am 100% certain there will be a ton more series where kobe shot like garbage in the 4th quarters besides the last 2 Finals series'.. lol @ trying to compare the stringbean to Flash

[Bring-Your-Js]

Its almost over.

[catch24]

Gino - 2004 Pistons a much better defensive team historically than in '05 and '06; yes or no?

[Bladers]

Its almost over.

It ends on sunday... Wade couldn't win with the best player in the game against the worst defensive team in the last decades! :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

HOLY SHIT! :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Heat007]

Wade shot 55% in the 4th quarters of that series., played shutdown D, and rebounded like a machine. Very clutch on offense and clutch on defense making defensive plays in the 4th quarters.. he was a clear difference maker in that series.

Meanwhile. Kobe "the stringbean" Bryant shot under 30% in the 4th quarters of the last 2 Finals :oldlol:

And I would just like to add, Wade has never come close to shooting under 30% in the 4th quarters of ANY playoff series in his life.

Kobe did it twice in the last 2 Finals ! lol. And I am sure there is a lot more playoff series where Kobe shot like hot garbage in 4th quarters and i will research this next week. But I already researched Wade and he never came close to shooting as bad as under 30% in his career in the 4th quarters for a series.

I am 100% certain there will be a ton more series where kobe shot like garbage in the 4th quarters besides the last 2 Finals series'.. lol @ trying to compare the stringbean to Flash

[DMAVS41]

He hasn't played many good defense even his career! :oldlol:

04: 3rd best defense
05: 7th best defense and 3rd best defense
06: 7th best defense and 4th best defense and 5th best defense
10: 5th best defense
11: 7th best defense and 2nd best defense and best defense and 8th best defense

All using your defensive rating. LOL

Does it get old ever? The majority of Wade's entire playoff series have come against top the better defenses.

[tpols]

What about 09?

When he just jacked and jacked and jacked?

Didn't he average like 27 shots a game in that series? ROFL
32/7/6:pimp:

As compared to current Dirk in the finals..
27/9/3

Despite Kobe's higher scoring they're shooting the same from the field. And kobe was a much better defender and playmaker. LOL

[Bladers]

Gino - 2004 Pistons a much better defensive team historically than in '05 and '06; yes or no?

"They became the first team in NBA history to hold five consecutive opponents under 70 points"

Former record was two! :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Gino - 2004 Pistons a much better defensive team historically than in '05 and '06; yes or no?

Much better? Not sure.

Better.

04 Shaq much better than 06 Shaq? yes or no?

[Rysio]

And I would just like to add, Wade has never come close to shooting under 30% in the 4th quarters of ANY series in his life.

Kobe did it twice in the last 2 Finals ! lol. And I am sure there is a lot more playoff series where Kobe shot like hot garbage in 4th quarters and i will research this next week. But I already researched Wade and he never came close to shooting as bad as under 30% in his career in the 4th quarters for a series.

I am 100% certain there will be a ton more series where kobe shot like garbage in the 4th quarters besides the last 2 Finals series'.. lol @ trying to compare the stringbean to Flash
Im pretty sure wade shoot like hot garbage in the last few minutes of games like he always does. :oldlol:

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

And I would just like to add, Wade has never come close to shooting under 30% in the 4th quarters of ANY playoff series in his life.

Kobe did it twice in the last 2 Finals ! lol. And I am sure there is a lot more playoff series where Kobe shot like hot garbage in 4th quarters and i will research this next week. But I already researched Wade and he never came close to shooting as bad as under 30% in his career in the 4th quarters for a series.

I am 100% certain there will be a ton more series where kobe shot like garbage in the 4th quarters besides the last 2 Finals series'.. lol @ trying to compare the stringbean to Flash

So it's cool for Wade to shoot horribly in the Chicago series as long as he shoots well in the 4th quarter? Even though LeBron and Bosh were the ones destroying Chicago down the stretch?

[Heat007]

http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h467/Catrean/wade-kobe-lebron-playoff-breakdown-by-defense1.jpg

http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h467/Catrean/wade2.jpg


/thread

[DMAVS41]

32/7/6:pimp:

As compared to current Dirk in the finals..
27/9/3

Despite Kobe's higher scoring they're shooting the same from the field. And kobe was a much better defender and playmaker. LOL

What does Dirk have to do with this?

But if you want to make it about Dirk, Dirk's crunch time play blows Kobe's out of the water.

Please don't compare that Magic team to this Heat team either. And please don't compare Dirk's help to Kobe's.

You really want to play this game. Kobe could only dream of playing as well as Dirk has in the finals.

Not to mention Dirk's numbers are skewed because he played a game sick as a dog....and still managed to come through again.


Hating on Dirk for his finals this year. Damn.....you get more and more pathetic daily.

Still think Rose is better than Dirk? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Ne 1]

that is his only bad playoff series against a good defense in his career. lol

i love it. still better than kobe's performance in the 2000 finals.

:applause:

You mean the 2000 Finals when Kobe twisted his ankle in Game 2 and left the game early the 1st quarter? His injury was so severe that the Lakers team doctors recommended that he sit out for the rest of the series, yet he came back in Game 4 and toke over when Shaq fouled out in overtime. If not for Kobe then the Lakers could have easily lost that series (would have gone down 2-3). Kobe technically missed 2 games that series. In games that he actually played in he averaged 19 ppg, which is equal to Wade's except Wade is an 8th year vet and 29, while Kobe was in his 4th year (2nd year as a starter) and just 21 years old.

[EnoughSaid]

Are you serious? What does it matter? Are we going to say MJ was overrated because of the defensive rating of the team he faced in the Finals? No. STFU Kobe nut hugger.

[catch24]

Much better? Not sure.

Better.

04 Shaq much better than 06 Shaq? yes or no?

I'd say much better. I don't ever agree with Hogan, but as he said... they became the first team in history to hold five consecutive opponents under 70 points. Not sure what Shaq has to do with this; he's played with Kobe half of his career, lol.

[tpols]

What does Dirk have to do with this?

But if you want to make it about Dirk, Dirk's crunch time play blows Kobe's out of the water.

Please don't compare that Magic team to this Heat team either. And please don't compare Dirk's help to Kobe's.

You really want to play this game. Kobe could only dream of playing as well as Dirk has in the finals.

Kobe's Finals numbers are far better than Dirk's overall and the Magic were ranked a better defense in 09[1st] than the Heat were this year[2nd or 3rd]..

Dirk's teammates have also stepped up JUST as much as Kobe's. Dirk shot 6/19 in game 4 and the mavs still won.:roll:

This is hilarious.:lol

[DMAVS41]

I'd say much better. I don't ever agree with Hogan, but as he said... they became the first team in history to hold five consecutive opponents under 70 points. Not sure what Shaq has to do with this; he's played with Kobe half of his career, lol.

Well Shaq was a better player in 04 and Kobe had him.

Shaq wasn't the same player in 06 when Wade had him. Wade was forced to do more.

It goes into it for sure.

Whats funny is that if the defense of the Pistons was that much better, then that is even more reason for Kobe to defer to Shaq and his help if he can't score on them.

Which is why I've always said that its more than just fg% and play....its about playing the right way. Kobe forcing up so many terrible shots makes it just so much worse for me.

If you miss shots, you miss shots. You can't control that at times. Its when you shot jack like no other player ever that warrants the criticism in my opinion.

[tpols]

But if you want to make it about Dirk, Dirk's crunch time play blows Kobe's out of the water.

And kobe blows Dirk out of the water in:

Overall Scoring
Overall Playmaking
Overall Defense
Overall Rebounding for Position

..pretty much every statistical category outside of that.

:roll: :roll:

[DMAVS41]

Kobe's Finals numbers are far better than Dirk's overall and the Magic were ranked a better defense in 09[1st] than the Heat were this year[2nd or 3rd]..

Dirk's teammates have also stepped up JUST as much as Kobe's. Dirk shot 6/19 in game 4 and the mavs still won.:roll:

This is hilarious.:lol

Hilarious?

You really want to compare the two? Holy shit. The Lakers won in 5....two of their 4 wins were easy.

11 Heat>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>09 Magic
Kobe's help>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Dirk's help

Dirk in crunch time>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe in crunch time

And again, Dirk's overall numbers are hugely impacted by his sick game.

LOL

And you call me a hater. Dirk is in the process of having one of the best playoff runs and finals given the circumstances of all time.

Please don't compare that to Kobe beating up on scrub teams in 09.

[Ne 1]

I'd say much better. I don't ever agree with Hogan, but as he said... they became the first team in history to hold five consecutive opponents under 70 points. Not sure what Shaq has to do with this; he's played with Kobe half of his career, lol.

Not to mention when Shaq went to Miami he was in a lot better shape and was more motivated and dedicated to winning than he was his last few years in LA.

Remember "I got hurt on company time so I'll heal on company time"? Remember he was showing up to training camp overweight and out of shape?

[catch24]

Well Shaq was a better player in 04 and Kobe had him.

Shaq wasn't the same player in 06 when Wade had him. Wade was forced to do more.

It goes into it for sure.

Whats funny is that if the defense of the Pistons was that much better, then that is even more reason for Kobe to defer to Shaq and his help if he can't score on them.

Which is why I've always said that its more than just fg% and play....its about playing the right way. Kobe forcing up so many terrible shots makes it just so much worse for me.

If you miss shots, you miss shots. You can't control that at times. Its when you shot jack like no other player ever that warrants the criticism in my opinion.

I actually agree with all of this. All I wanted to know is if you'd actually admit the 2004 Pistons defense was better than 2005 and 06 remix versions. Looks like we are in agreement.

[DMAVS41]

And kobe blows Dirk out of the water in:

Overall Scoring
Overall Playmaking
Overall Defense
Overall Rebounding for Position

..pretty much every statistical category outside of that.

:roll: :roll:

Dirk's playoff run this year is greater than any playoff run by Kobe.

Deal with it.

LOL.....and when did this become about Dirk and Kobe?

Kobe stans in full on panic mode. Now they are trying to compare Dirk and Kobe. Why?

We all know Kobe has been the better player.

Its just getting sad at this point.

Tpols. You still think Rose is better than Dirk? Please answer.

You still blame Fisher for Kobe's inability to make game winners? Please answer.

6-24 and 7-25.

Kobe's performance in game 7 and his performance in the biggest shots of his career.

Not a good look brah. Just the truth.

[Bladers]

"As of 3/15/04 Here are "some" the Piston's defensive accomplishments this season: (ripped from another site)

First team to hold an opposing team's entire roster to single digits. Hasn't been done in the modern era of NBA basketball.

Longest consecutive streak holding teams under 100 in a single season in the modern era.

Most games in a single season holding teams under 100 in the modern era.

Most games in a season holding teams under 70 (10) in the modern era.

Longest consecutive streak of holding opposing teams under 70 (5) in the modern era. (Currently more than doubled the old record)

Pistons set an NBA record by holding 5 straight teams under 70 points."

But according to Gino, 06 pistons defense = 04 pistons Record breaking and setting defense! :roll: :roll: :roll:

This was compiled one months before the season ended. This shit is too funny! I want to get the complete list :oldlol: :oldlol:

[catch24]

Not to mention when Shaq went to Miami he was in a lot better shape and was more motivated and dedicated to winning than he was his last few years in LA.

Remember "I got hurt on company time so I'll heal on company time"? Remember he was showing up to training camp overweight and out of shape?

Yeah, very true. Shaq is my guy, but lets not pretend he didn't become overweight and out of shape the 2003 and 2004 seasons (and no, I'm not ignoring the fact he outplayed Kobe both years in the postseason). The guy was in awesome shape coming into the 2005 season, and showed he was the Heat's best player until the playoffs, where he and Wade both carried the load. 2006 and beyond -- the rest was history.

[Doctor Rivers]

/thread

one of these times it'll actually end the thread

[DMAVS41]

http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h467/Catrean/wade-kobe-lebron-playoff-breakdown-by-defense1.jpg

http://i1111.photobucket.com/albums/h467/Catrean/wade2.jpg


/thread

Kobe do what Kobe do....as long as he's playing a poor/average defense in the playoffs.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[tpols]

And again, Dirk's overall numbers are hugely impacted by his sick game.

This is your excuse?:roll: Kobe was dealing with more injuries last year than Dirk has in his whole career.

Holy shit.:roll:

[Doctor Rivers]

/thread

[Bladers]

This is your excuse?:roll: Kobe was dealing with more injuries last year than Dirk has in his whole career.

Holy shit.:roll:

Hey tpos. Don't let him switch the topic to dirk.
Let's keep it on wade. In 20 hours, Wade is about to choke again for the 4th time in the clutch and cost his team the championship.

I can't wait to lulz @ this fool not winning with the best player in the game on your team against the worst defensive team in the last decades to ever appear in the finals!

This is inexcusable shit right here! :roll: :roll:

[Ne 1]

Well Shaq was a better player in 04 and Kobe had him.

Shaq wasn't the same player in 06 when Wade had him. Wade was forced to do more.

It goes into it for sure.

Whats funny is that if the defense of the Pistons was that much better, then that is even more reason for Kobe to defer to Shaq and his help if he can't score on them.

Which is why I've always said that its more than just fg% and play....its about playing the right way. Kobe forcing up so many terrible shots makes it just so much worse for me.

If you miss shots, you miss shots. You can't control that at times. Its when you shot jack like no other player ever that warrants the criticism in my opinion.

Why do people rewrite history when it comes to that 2004 finals? Don't get me wrong Kobe was horrendous.

But not only that, but Tex Winter criticized Shaq's play in that series for being lazy on defense and the glass, and not establishing position in the paint... now don't get it twisted, Kobe played like shit also, but so did Shaq... And I think Shaq only had the one great game that series.


During the '04 series Shaq wasn't getting in position to get the ball. (when he did he was able to score though). But even if you look at the game where Kobe wasn't looking to score, Shaq still couldn't get off. That's why Phil made the comment about wasting Shaq's great game cause he knew Shaq couldn't bring that level of energy every game. Karl Malone was hurt. GP was a bad fit and even criticized the triangle offense that year. And the Lakers really had no one else to take those shots so of course it was left to Kobe to gun, it wasn't him just forcing up bad shots.

The Lakers own coaches came out saying how Shaq wasn't working for position and wasn't working to get the ball. You can make the judgment on if that was just Shaq pouting cause he wasn't getting the ball enough or you can credit Detroit's defense. Shaq had some great offensive games but was slow defensively coming off the pick and Rip and Chauncy got to the rim at will. Don't remake your own history by looking up some box scores. Anyone can do that.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Why do people rewrite history whenit comes to that 2004 finals? Don't get me wrong Kobe was horrendous.

But not only that, but Tex Winter criticized Shaq's play in that series for being lazy on defense and the glass, and not establishing position in the paint... now don't get it twisted, Kobe played like shit also, but so did Shaq... And I think Shaq only had the one great game that series.


During the '04 series Shaq wasn't getting in position to get the ball. (when he did he was able to score though). But even if you look at the game where Kobe wasn't looking to score, Shaq still couldn't get off. That's why Phil made the comment about wasting Shaq's great game cause he knew Shaq couldn't bring that level of energy every game. Karl Malone was hurt. GP was a bad fit and even criticized the trilingual offense that year. And the Lakers really had no one else to take those shots so of course it was left to Kobe to gun, it wasn't him just forcing up bad shots.

The Lakers own coaches came out saying how Shaq wasn't working for position and wasn't working to get the ball. You can make the judgment on if that was just Shaq pouting cause he wasn't getting the ball enough or you can credit Detroit's defense. Shaq had some great offensive games but was slow defensively coming off the pick and Rip and Chauncy got to the rim at will. Don't remake your own history by looking up some box scores. Anyone can do that.

/ether

[tpols]

Why do people rewrite history whenit comes to that 2004 finals? Don't get me wrong Kobe was horrendous.

But not only that, but Tex Winter criticized Shaq's play in that series for being lazy on defense and the glass, and not establishing position in the paint... now don't get it twisted, Kobe played like shit also, but so did Shaq... And I think Shaq only had the one great game that series.


During the '04 series Shaq wasn't getting in position to get the ball. (when he did he was able to score though). But even if you look at the game where Kobe wasn't looking to score, Shaq still couldn't get off. That's why Phil made the comment about wasting Shaq's great game cause he knew Shaq couldn't bring that level of energy every game. Karl Malone was hurt. GP was a bad fit and even criticized the trilingual offense that year. And the Lakers really had no one else to take those shots so of course it was left to Kobe to gun, it wasn't him just forcing up bad shots.

The Lakers own coaches came out saying how Shaq wasn't working for position and wasn't working to get the ball. You can make the judgment on if that was just Shaq pouting cause he wasn't getting the ball enough or you can credit Detroit's defense. Shaq had some great offensive games but was slow defensively coming off the pick and Rip and Chauncy got to the rim at will. Don't remake your own history by looking up some box scores. Anyone can do that.
Nahh dawg.. Dont apply context and reasoning to your arguments.

Lets just toss numbers aroundhowever we please like mindless idiots like Gino and pray people listen to us.:oldlol:

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Why the hell are you bringing up Kobe in a thread about the Heat?
Seems like everyone's trying their best to discredit him for all his title runs.
Can't you just appreciate what a player has done? All Time Greats don't come along that often. And sooner or later, he'll be retired, and you'll all regret it.
I'm looking at you DMAVs.
And Kobe beating up scrub teams in 2009?:facepalm
I wouldn't call the Denver Nuggets or Orlando Magic scrub teams. Can't find any stats, but I believe that the Orlando Magic also has a top 5 defense. Point is, Both teams were legit.

Anyways, Dwyane Wade has been doing a great job. I think he's playing well, and he really has taken over late game with LeBron's absence. Then again, everyone has an off game every once in a while. Explains why he struggled a little against Chicago, but don't forget, he torched Boston. Who cares if it's the Mavs?
And yeah, I agree, LeBron crumbles under high expectations and pressure, but thrives when everyone doubts him or has low expectations.

[Bladers]

Why the hell are you bringing up Kobe in a thread about the Heat?
Seems like everyone's trying their best to discredit him for all his title runs.
Can't you just appreciate what a player has done? All Time Greats don't come along that often. And sooner or later, he'll be retired, and you'll all regret it.
I'm looking at you DMAVs.
And Kobe beating up scrub teams in 2009?:facepalm
I wouldn't call the Denver Nuggets or Orlando Magic scrub teams. Can't find any stats, but I believe that the Orlando Magic also has a top 5 defense. Point is, Both teams were legit.

Anyways, Dwyane Wade has been doing a great job. I think he's playing well, and he really has taken over late game with LeBron's absence. Then again, everyone has an off game every once in a while. Explains why he struggled a little against Chicago, but don't forget, he torched Boston. Who cares if it's the Mavs?
And yeah, I agree, LeBron crumbles under high expectations and pressure, but thrives when everyone doubts him or has low expectations.

Orlando were the #1 defense in the league.... Dont mind Gino/dmavs, he is just mad! :oldlol: :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Nahh dawg.. Dont apply context and reasoning to your arguments.

Lets just toss numbers aroundhowever we please like mindless idiots like Gino and pray people listen to us.:oldlol:

You opened the door to this with your dirk vs kobe comparison. care to put those into proper context? didn't think so.

as for shaq in 04, he wasn't doing some of those things because kobe wasn't ****ing passing anyone the ball. you talk about context. how about putting kobe's selfish play and hero ball into context that caused phil jackson to want to trade him a number of times in 04 it got so bad. and it all boiled over in the finals.

you want to talk dirk vs kobe? fine. lets do it in the playoffs though. not fair to compare dirk's 11 straight 50 win plus regular seasons to kobe anyway.

Dirk 26 points 10 boards 3 assists on 47/39/89 59% TS
24.9 PER

Kobe 25 points 5 boards 5 assists on 45/34/82 54% TS
22.3 PER

Dirk is 5 of 12 on playoff game winners
Kobe is 7 of 25 on playoff game winners (bu bu but....its Fisher's fault....LOL)

Kobe .158 WS/48
Dirk .209 WS/48

Offensive Rating:

Dirk 119
Kobe 110

Dirk has never lost a game 7 (5-0). Dirk has 3 different 30 plus points 10 plus rebounds game 7's

Dirk is tied with Jerry West for the most elimination games with 30 points of all time. In elimination games, Dirk averages 29 points 12 boards 3 assists on 49/39/89 efficiency

Dirk is in the process (by tpols own admission) of having one of the greatest playoff runs of all time


You really want to do this tpols?

Dirk>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe in the playoffs

Owned.

[Benji23]

04 pistons (95.4) >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 05 pistons (101.2)

Can't even be compared...:roll: :roll: :roll:

Olympics... WTF? :roll: :roll:

Here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_l0AhR-LEfg

Edit: Reg season is meanless...??? :roll: :roll: :roll:

The amount of :roll: you put in this post annoys me for some reason.

[tpols]

Dirk>>>>>>>>>>>>>Kobe in the playoffs

Kobe in his peak was a better playoff performer than Dirk could ever dream of.:oldlol:

Better Offensive Player
Better Scorer
Better Playmaker

Better Defensive Player
Better Man Defender
Better Help Defender
Better Transition Defender

He was just flat out better. There's no comparison.:oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Kobe in his peak was a better playoff performer than Dirk could ever dream of.:oldlol:

Better Offensive Player
Better Scorer
Better Playmaker

Better Defensive Player
Better Man Defender
Better Help Defender
Better Transition Defender

He was just flat out better. There's no comparison.:oldlol:

Yet somehow Dirk has better overall numbers playing with much less help.

Funny how that works.

Dirk with Kobe's teams = 6 titles at minimum

8 years with prime Shaq? LOL @ the idea of only winning 3 chips.

You opened the door mate.

[tpols]

...

Yup you cant refute it.. and you know it's true. :confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

Yup you cant refute it.. and you know it's true. :confusedshrug:

All I know is that Dirk is the better playoff performer given his circumstances.

Yup you can't refute it...and you know it's true.

[tpols]

We all know Kobe has been the better player.


LOL straight from the horse's mouth. Why are you so contradictory?:oldlol:

[Benji23]

Kobe in his peak was a better playoff performer than Dirk could ever dream of.:oldlol:

Better Offensive Player
Better Scorer
Better Playmaker

Better Defensive Player
Better Man Defender
Better Help Defender
Better Transition Defender

He was just flat out better. There's no comparison.:oldlol:

The way Dirk is performing at the moment and throughout these playoffs is something Kobe could only dream of.

[DMAVS41]

LOL straight from the horse's mouth. Why are you so contradictory?:oldlol:

Overall for his career? Sure.

In the playoffs? Don't see it.

Especially won't be able to see it if the Mavs win. The idea of Kobe winning a title against this competition playing with Dirk's help is laughable to me.

I might be revising my statement as well.

Looking at these numbers its hard to ignore them.

Not looking so good for your boy.

[tpols]

I might be revising my statement as well.


Hey dont worry man we're all used to it. You've been doing this for months now. It'll only add to your list of contradictions.:oldlol:

[Bladers]

Overall for his career? Sure.

In the playoffs? Don't see it.

Especially won't be able to see it if the Mavs win. The idea of Kobe winning a title against this competition playing with Dirk's help is laughable to me.

I might be revising my statement as well.

Looking at these numbers its hard to ignore them.

Not looking so good for your boy.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lcf8wl7e821qcmnsoo1_500.jpg

[DMAVS41]

Hey dont worry man we're all used to it. You've been doing this for months now. It'll only add to your list of contradictions.:oldlol:

Quick question.

Game on the line in the playoffs.

Do you want Kobe or Dirk with the ball?

Keep in mind that Dirk is 5 of 12 on playoff game winners while Kobe is 7 of 25.

Also keep in mind that Dirk's teams have the best record in tight games in the entire NBA over the last 7 years.

So who do you want with the ball with the game on the line? Kobe or Dirk?

Please answer.

[Bladers]

Quick question.

Game on the line in the playoffs.

Do you want Kobe or Dirk with the ball?

Keep in mind that Dirk is 5 of 12 on playoff game winners while Kobe is 7 of 25.

Also keep in mind that Dirk's teams have the best record in tight games in the entire NBA over the last 7 years.

So who do you want with the ball with the game on the line? Kobe or Dirk?

Please answer.



GET A FREAKING ROOM!!!

This is a wade thread. Let's Talk about his failures in the clutch!

[tpols]

Quick question.
.
Are you trying to go on a separate tangent to distract from the original debate that you just admittingly lost? Cmon man, you've had enough for the day.:cheers:

[Ne 1]

Dirk with Kobe's teams = 6 titles at minimum

This is without a single shred of comprehensible evidence.


8 years with prime Shaq? LOL @ the idea of only winning 3 chips.

Kobe only had 5 of his prime years with Shaq. They won 3 straight championships and went to 4 Finals in 5 of those years, but that's laughable?

I've honestly never seen anyone so obsessive with tying to diminish and detract one player like you with Kobe.

[DMAVS41]

This is without a single shred of comprehensible evidence.



Kobe only had 5 of his prime years with Shaq. They won 3 straight championships and went to 4 Finals in 5 of those years, but that's laughable?

I've honestly never seen anyone so obsessive with tying to diminish and detract one player like you with Kobe.

I didn't bring this up. Your boy tpols did.

I'll flip it around.

There is no evidence that Kobe could ever lead a team like this or Dirk's team in 06 to the finals. None.

And like I said, the numbers favor Dirk. Just the truth.

[kaiiu]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lcf8wl7e821qcmnsoo1_500.jpg
thats a beautiful ass hand. Bling bow burrr

[Heat007]

Wade > Dirk >> Kobe


If Kobe was on Dallas instead of Dirk the Heat would have easily won this series already

[Ne 1]

I didn't bring this up. Your boy tpols did.

I'll flip it around.

There is no evidence that Kobe could ever lead a team like this or Dirk's team in 06 to the finals. None.

And like I said, the numbers favor Dirk. Just the truth.


Either way it's impossible to know. It's not relevant and would be a stupid assumption what Kobe would do with Dirk's team and vice versa because they both have teams around them that complement their style and strengths. I don't see the point your trying to make with all this anyway. It's just about diminishing Kobe.

[DMAVS41]

Either way it's impossible to know. It's not relevant and would be a stupid assumption what Kobe would do with Dirk's team and vice versa because they both have teams around them that complement their style and strengths. I don't see the point your trying to make with all this anyway. It's just about diminishing Kobe.

No its not.

I'm just responding to that jackass tpols that out of nowhere started comparing kobe to dirk.

And while I think Kobe is the better player overall, I think Dirk has been better in the playoffs throughout this career given his circumstances.

I'm not trying to diminish Kobe. I'm trying to give credit to Wade.

If I was trying to diminish Kobe I wouldn't rank him in the top 10 all time.

This is about trying to give Wade some freaking credit for a change. Look at the thread title.

Wade is averaging 28/7/5 on 58% shooting in the finals against a top 8 defense that already shut down Kobe, bothered Durant, and is in the process of shutting down Lebron.....and there is a thread saying he's over-rated.

What gives?

[Micku]

lol.

This is the same Dallas team that Kobe did not destroy. Kobe averaged 23.5 ppg with 46%.

This is the same Dallas team that Durant average 28 ppg with 43% FG%.

This is the same Dallas team that LeBron is averaging 17.2 ppg with 45% FG.

Wade is doing much better than all of these guys who went up against the same team.

Wade and LBJ played decent against the Philly. Wade and LBJ played great against Boston. Wade suck against the Bulls, and LBJ had a pretty good series with them. Wade is having pretty good series against the Mavs, and LBJ is sucking.

[Jimmy2k8]

Heat007, where you at?

[Ikill]

Heat007, where you at?
Wade was easily the best player in the finals

[WeGetRing2012]

Wade was easily the best player in the finals

But Dirk shitted on him and he lost :confusedshrug:

[Ikill]

But Dirk shitted on him and he lost :confusedshrug:
27/7/5/2/2 55%>26/10/2/1/1 42% He was killing it also playing much better defense. He got injured and Lebron sucked.

[97 bulls]

27/7/5/2/2 55%>26/10/2/1/1 42% He was killing it also playing much better defense. He got injured and Lebron sucked.
When and who was wade guarding? Alot of you guys mistake somme opportunistic blocks and steals as good solid defense. WADE STOPPED NOBODY. Ialways said wades defense was solid at best. Now I drop it down to suspect. All wade did was score. And the heats offense wasn't nearly as big a problem as their inability to control the rest of the mavericks.

This is why I say wade is overrated.

[Ikill]

When and who was wade guarding? Alot of you guys mistake somme opportunistic blocks and steals as good solid defense. WADE STOPPED NOBODY. Ialways said wades defense was solid at best. Now I drop it down to suspect. All wade did was score. And the heats offense wasn't nearly as big a problem as their inability to control the rest of the mavericks.

This is why I say wade is overrated.
and no one cares what you say your a dumb hater

[Doctor Rivers]

He's OVERWADED

[97 bulls]

and no one cares what you say your a dumb hater
Im not a hater. And certainly not dumb. Maybe you didn't see the mavericks guards have their way with the heats guards to the point that the mavericks guards could've been accused of molesting.

Now im big on I told you so. And I said that wade isn't a great defender in that thread entitled who was better between pippen and wade. And i said that wade was nowhere near the defender of that pippen was. The championship showed us that what I said was true. And wades not jordan lite, he's not better than drexler, he's a great scoring gurad that has a nose for spectacular plays.

[KingBeasley08]

Im not a hater. And certainly not dumb. Maybe you didn't see the mavericks guards have their way with the heats guards to the point that the mavericks guards could've been accused of molesting.

Now im big on I told you so. And I said that wade isn't a great defender in that thread entitled who was better between pippen and wade. And i said that wade was nowhere near the defender of that pippen was. The championship showed us that what I said was true. And wades not jordan lite, he's not better than drexler, he's a great scoring gurad that has a nose for spectacular plays.
wade is beast at defense. gtfo

[DMAVS41]

Wade is better than Pippen.

Its not hard really.

But of course how could anyone ever take you seriously when you claimed Pippen was better than Magic?

[97 bulls]

wade is beast at defense. gtfo
yeah a puppy

[97 bulls]

Wade is better than Pippen.

Its not hard really.

But of course how could anyone ever take you seriously when you claimed Pippen was better than Magic?
Obviously this is all opinion. I know that what I said about wade was true. Defensively he's overrated. Im still scratching my head trying to figure out why he didn't assume the defensive challenge of guarding terry or any of the othe maverick guards. Or even dirk if he's supposed to be on pippens level defensively.

[KingBeasley08]

yeah a puppy
wade>>pippen

[Ikill]

Im not a hater. And certainly not dumb. Maybe you didn't see the mavericks guards have their way with the heats guards to the point that the mavericks guards could've been accused of molesting.

Now im big on I told you so. And I said that wade isn't a great defender in that thread entitled who was better between pippen and wade. And i said that wade was nowhere near the defender of that pippen was. The championship showed us that what I said was true. And wades not jordan lite, he's not better than drexler, he's a great scoring gurad that has a nose for spectacular plays.
Your denying your a huge Wade hater :oldlol:

[DMAVS41]

Obviously this is all opinion. I know that what I said about wade was true. Defensively he's overrated. Im still scratching my head trying to figure out why he didn't assume the defensive challenge of guarding terry or any of the othe maverick guards. Or even dirk if he's supposed to be on pippens level defensively.

Nobody ever put Wade on Pippen's level defensively.

You want Wade to guard Dirk. What? a 6-4 sg guarding a 7 footer??????

Come on man. We all know who you are. Wade is not over-rated defensively. He's one of the best guard defenders in the league. He didn't even make an all defensive team this year and he absolutely deserved it. How is that over-rated defensively? The guy has the defensive stats and numbers to warrant making first or second team all defense and doesn't make either....what?

Wade is just an overall better player than Pippen. Its pretty obvious at that as well.

But again, you think Pippen was better than Magic. I suggest you look in the mirror before you come on here claiming Wade is over-rated.

You know who is over-rated? Pippen. He's over-rated because you claim he was better than one of the 5 best players of all time. Hell, its a stretch to put Pippen in the top 25 of all time.

Thats the truth.

[winwin]

wade>>pippen
wow .. now that's what i call overrating

[97 bulls]

Your denying your a huge Wade hater :oldlol:
Im not denying anything. Wade is great but to me, he's overrated. What's his excuse as to why his heat lost this year?
Talent?
Scoring?
Lack of championship experience?

He had all these things at his disposal. Im just calling it like I see it.

[WeGetRing2012]

27/7/5/2/2 55%>26/10/2/1/1 42% He was killing it also playing much better defense. He got injured and Lebron sucked.

He had two good games. Game 1 & Game 3 but he had major mistakes and flaws in the other ones.

Game 2 - wasnt aggresive down the stretch and helped cost them the game.
Game 4 - missed clutch free throw and costly turnover in the final seconds.
Game 5 - got injured so he wasnt really effective throughout the game.
Game 6 - was just awful for a win or go home game in the Finals. He had like 17 points :facepalm

Not to mention all the asshole incidents he had during the series. Mocking Dirk, flopping after missing the game winner, show boating before the game was over then actually losing.etc......

It just wasnt a good look for either Wade or Lebron in my opinon.

[pegasus]

He had two good games. Game 1 & Game 3 but he had major mistakes and flaws in the other ones.

Game 2 - wasnt aggresive down the stretch and helped cost them the game.
Game 4 - missed clutch free throw and costly turnover in the final seconds.
Game 5 - got injured so he wasnt really effective throughout the game.
Game 6 - was just awful for a win or go home game in the Finals. He had like 17 points :facepalm

Not to mention all the asshole incidents he had during the series. Mocking Dirk, flopping after missing the game winner, show boating before the game was over then actually losing.etc......

It just wasnt a good look for either Wade or Lebron in my opinon.

Great post. :applause:

I agree with all of it except Wade getting injured. That was fake. He was totally fine after the contact until the time out was called several possessions later. The second he heard the whistle he acted like a 75 year old woman in need of a hip replacement.

[WeGetRing2012]

Great post. :applause:

I agree with all of it except Wade getting injured. That was fake. He was totally fine after the contact until the time out was called several possessions later. The second he heard the whistle he acted like a 75 year old woman in need of a hip replacement.

Yeah and on top of all that they LOST :facepalm

[Ikill]

He had two good games. Game 1 & Game 3 but he had major mistakes and flaws in the other ones.

Game 2 - wasnt aggresive down the stretch and helped cost them the game.
Game 4 - missed clutch free throw and costly turnover in the final seconds.
Game 5 - got injured so he wasnt really effective throughout the game.
Game 6 - was just awful for a win or go home game in the Finals. He had like 17 points :facepalm

Not to mention all the asshole incidents he had during the series. Mocking Dirk, flopping after missing the game winner, show boating before the game was over then actually losing.etc......

It just wasnt a good look for either Wade or Lebron in my opinon.
Game 2 was a good game you can't blame him he didn't get the ball. Game 4 was an okay game he was horrible in the clutch but still was great the rest of the game. Game 5 was also a good game he was the reason they stayed in the game if he never got hurt they would of won. Game 6 was a bad game. 4 good games 1 okay game and 1 bad game you don't get stats like that by playing horrible the whole series.

[97 bulls]

Nobody ever put Wade on Pippen's level defensively.

You want Wade to guard Dirk. What? a 6-4 sg guarding a 7 footer??????

Come on man. We all know who you are. Wade is not over-rated defensively. He's one of the best guard defenders in the league. He didn't even make an all defensive team this year and he absolutely deserved it. How is that over-rated defensively? The guy has the defensive stats and numbers to warrant making first or second team all defense and doesn't make either....what?

Wade is just an overall better player than Pippen. Its pretty obvious at that as well.

But again, you think Pippen was better than Magic. I suggest you look in the mirror before you come on here claiming Wade is over-rated.

You know who is over-rated? Pippen. He's over-rated because you claim he was better than one of the 5 best players of all time. Hell, its a stretch to put Pippen in the top 25 of all time.

Thats the truth.
Lets put this magic/pippen thing to bed. You asked me who would I take to start a franchise between magic and pippen. I said pippen cuz based on what I saw from both players, I know pippen could win with minimal talent. And I've maintained that magic was lazy on defense. As far as talent/skillset, magic and pippen are very similar. Where magic has pippen is accolades. and I lay that right at the door of politics. Magic was the face of the league. He was perfect for the showtime lakers and LA. You said yourself that alot of awards are given to players withh other definatetly deserving it more.

I even tried to qualify my opinion by saying that if I was to have to choose between shaq and olajuwan, based on what i saw from both players, id pick olajuwan for the same reasons id pick pippen over magic. But id rank shaq higher in the all-time rankings cuz of his accomplishments. Same as I would magic over pippen.

Going back to wade, I think he should've won the all nba defense and 1st team over kobe, but once again politics comes into play. But if were voting just who the best defender is at the sg position its neither wade or kobe. Pippen was the best virtually every year and the best overall defender too. And you get no argument from anyone in that regard.

In this finals, I saw all I needed to see from wade. And everything I said about him or that was said in that comparison with pippen solidified my pov. Where was the ability to take over games? Something pippen gets knocked for even though he did take over games. Where was the defense? Where was the clutch ability? I remember wade missing critical fts and commiting timely TOs. Along with not being able to close out a team while having a 15 pts lead. I said 06 was a fluke due to the refs paradeing wade to the ft line. And that without the refs, wade is no better than any other all-time great. I remember people saying wade couldn't win cuz he didn't have sufficient talent. Well we see that's wrong.

And I still think wade and the heat will win a championship. Maybe even with wade as the heats best player. But you know what the difference is between him and pippen? Wade is gonna have about 3 more legit chances to do it. He failed this year with all the chips on his side. Pippen had 1 and had no help.

[97 bulls]

Game 2 was a good game you can't blame him he didn't get the ball. Game 4 was an okay game he was horrible in the clutch but still was great the rest of the game. Game 5 was also a good game he was the reason they stayed in the game if he never got hurt they would of won. Game 6 was a bad game. 4 good games 1 okay game and 1 bad game you don't get stats like that by playing horrible the whole series.
Lol he didn't get the ball?!!!! What the?!!!! Who was keeping it from him? James? Chalmers? Anthony? Come on.

[DMAVS41]

Lets put this magic/pippen thing to bed. You asked me who would I take to start a franchise between magic and pippen. I said pippen cuz based on what I saw from both players, I know pippen could win with minimal talent. And I've maintained that magic was lazy on defense. As far as talent/skillset, magic and pippen are very similar. Where magic has pippen is accolades. and I lay that right at the door of politics. Magic was the face of the league. He was perfect for the showtime lakers and LA. You said yourself that alot of awards are given to players withh other definatetly deserving it more.

I even tried to qualify my opinion by saying that if I was to have to choose between shaq and olajuwan, based on what i saw from both players, id pick olajuwan for the same reasons id pick pippen over magic. But id rank shaq higher in the all-time rankings cuz of his accomplishments. Same as I would magic over pippen.

Going back to wade, I think he should've won the all nba defense and 1st team over kobe, but once again politics comes into play. But if were voting just who the best defender is at the sg position its neither wade or kobe. Pippen was the best virtually every year and the best overall defender too. And you get no argument from anyone in that regard.

In this finals, I saw all I needed to see from wade. And everything I said about him or that was said in that comparison with pippen solidified my pov. Where was the ability to take over games? Something pippen gets knocked for even though he did take over games. Where was the defense? Where was the clutch ability? I remember wade missing critical fts and commiting timely TOs. Along with not being able to close out a team while having a 15 pts lead. I said 06 was a fluke due to the refs paradeing wade to the ft line. And that without the refs, wade is no better than any other all-time great. I remember people saying wade couldn't win cuz he didn't have sufficient talent. Well we see that's wrong.

And I still think wade and the heat will win a championship. Maybe even with wade as the heats best player. But you know what the difference is between him and pippen? Wade is gonna have about 3 more legit chances to do it. He failed this year with all the chips on his side. Pippen had 1 and had no help.

I will say it again. I have never said Wade was on Pippen's level as a defender. Never. I don't know why you keep acting like I did.

I simply believe Wade is the better player because of what he can do offensively in terms of scoring and playmaking.....combined with being a very good defensive guard (just obviously not on Pippen's level)

To put it simply:

Wade is a legit championship winning number 1 option
I don't feel Pippen is. I think Pippen could have won a title as the best player on a team, but he couldn't carry a team the way Wade has in the past

If we are comparing them as 2nd options? I'll take Pippen probably....

[Ikill]

Lol he didn't get the ball?!!!! What the?!!!! Who was keeping it from him? James? Chalmers? Anthony? Come on.
He was hot all game but for someone reason they stopped giving it to him probably cause Lebron was so clutch in the two previous rounds.

[Vragrant]

Lol he didn't get the ball?!!!! What the?!!!! Who was keeping it from him? James? Chalmers? Anthony? Come on.

In the post game interview after game 3, Wade said his teammates said they wanted to get him the ball down the stretch of game 2 more,and they made a concerted effort to get him the ball late in game 3.

Wade didn't choke that game away, he barely got any touches late. James? Well, he part of the blame. He was terrible down the stretch of game 2 and took way too many ill advised jumpers, and was the one initiating the offense late when they went away from Wade.

[97 bulls]

I will say it again. I have never said Wade was on Pippen's level as a defender. Never. I don't know why you keep acting like I did.

I simply believe Wade is the better player because of what he can do offensively in terms of scoring and playmaking.....combined with being a very good defensive guard (just obviously not on Pippen's level)

To put it simply:

Wade is a legit championship winning number 1 option
I don't feel Pippen is. I think Pippen could have won a title as the best player on a team, but he couldn't carry a team the way Wade has in the past

If we are comparing them as 2nd options? I'll take Pippen probably....
I wasn't so much directing the defense thing at you. But I do think yourhaving tunnel vision. It seems like your mistaking style with talent. Cwade and pippen are very different style wise. In fact, I wouldn't argue you saying that wades agressive scoring style is preferred by you over pippens versitle style. But that doesn't make one better than the other. Case and point. Wade avg 27 ppg in this final and was worthless on defense. Aside from blocks and steals which is a very fake way to determine a players defensive contributions to a game. But I firmly believe wade CAN NOT do what pippen did which was score 20 ppg and then play defense at a high level. For example, why didn't wade guard jose juan or terry? Cuz when wade has an assignment that calls for him to exert alot of energy on defense, it greatly effects him offensivly. To the tune of going from a 25 ppg scorer to a 14-15 ppg scorer. Let's say you put pippen on terry. You don't think pippen drops that 18 ppg that terry avg in that series to about 10? Or if jose juan avg 10. Pippen cuts that in half. And still plays amazing offensively. And sets things up fro his teammates. We've seen it from pippen his whole career. And against much better offensive threats than jason terry and jose berrea.

[DMAVS41]

I wasn't so much directing the defense thing at you. But I do think yourhaving tunnel vision. It seems like your mistaking style with talent. Cwade and pippen are very different style wise. In fact, I wouldn't argue you saying that wades agressive scoring style is preferred by you over pippens versitle style. But that doesn't make one better than the other. Case and point. Wade avg 27 ppg in this final and was worthless on defense. Aside from blocks and steals which is a very fake way to determine a players defensive contributions to a game. But I firmly believe wade CAN NOT do what pippen did which was score 20 ppg and then play defense at a high level. For example, why didn't wade guard jose juan or terry? Cuz when wade has an assignment that calls for him to exert alot of energy on defense, it greatly effects him offensivly. To the tune of going from a 25 ppg scorer to a 14-15 ppg scorer. Let's say you put pippen on terry. You don't think pippen drops that 18 ppg that terry avg in that series to about 10? Or if jose juan avg 10. Pippen cuts that in half. And still plays amazing offensively. And sets things up fro his teammates. We've seen it from pippen his whole career. And against much better offensive threats than jason terry and jose berrea.

You really want to use one series to judge a player? A series in which Wade had tremendous offensive success against a team that had previously hampered Kobe, Durant, Westbrook....and Lebron??????

You act like Wade was worthless defensively. How about his 4.5 defensive rebounds per game from the sg position?

You do realize that the Heat don't have a paint/rim protector...right? You do realize that it was on Wade to help off his man and mix things up in the paint. Do you remember some of Wade's blocks? His rotations in the paint made an impact on that series.

Or how about the turnover he forced on Dirk late in game 3?

Stop trying to act like Pippen never had bad games or series defensively.....and stop acting like all defense is man to man.

I hope you know better.

Narrow minded? Me? Jesus man.....you rank Pippen over Magic. How do you expect to have a serious conversation when you come in literally as biased as anyone has ever been about a player.

[Jacks3]

He had two good games. Game 1 & Game 3 but he had major mistakes and flaws in the other ones.

Game 2 - wasnt aggresive down the stretch and helped cost them the game.
Game 4 - missed clutch free throw and costly turnover in the final seconds.
Game 5 - got injured so he wasnt really effective throughout the game.
Game 6 - was just awful for a win or go home game in the Finals. He had like 17 points :facepalm

Not to mention all the asshole incidents he had during the series. Mocking Dirk, flopping after missing the game winner, show boating before the game was over then actually losing.etc......

It just wasnt a good look for either Wade or Lebron in my opinon.
:applause:

[97 bulls]

You really want to use one series to judge a player? A series in which Wade had tremendous offensive success against a team that had previously hampered Kobe, Durant, Westbrook....and Lebron??????
Im not basing wade career off just this series. Its just an example. I stand by the fact that id take pippens role on 6 championship teams to wades 1. And a championship that in my opinion was handed to him.

You act like Wade was worthless defensively. How about his 4.5 defensive rebounds per game from the sg position?
He was bro. If he's supposed to be this great defender, id expect him to totally shut down his man. And demand to take on the tough defensive assignment that was called for in this series

You do realize that the Heat don't have a paint/rim protector...right? You do realize that it was on Wade to help off his man and mix things up in the paint. Do you remember some of Wade's blocks? His rotations in the paint made an impact on that series.
the mavs have nobody that attacked the rim to the point that you can use this as an excuse. Except jose juan. Most of the mavs offense is jumpshots. Thus they don't need a "rim protector". Or didn't need one in this series. But I bet pippen would've shut down the mave if all he had to do is worry about deshawn stevenon and jason kidd 3pters. And still contribute 21 pts and 7 assists.

Or how about the turnover he forced on Dirk late in game 3?
Wow I guy I said a few monts ago had a knack for making a few spectacualr defensive plays a game. But overall puts no defensive stamp on the game does exactly that.

Stop trying to act like Pippen never had bad games or series defensively.....and stop acting like all defense is man to man.
I remember countless big shots made by kidd and stevenson. That's was wades fault. Cuz his help D was non existant. Aside from a few amazing blocks
I hope you know better.

Narrow minded? Me? Jesus man.....you rank Pippen over Magic. How do you expect to have a serious conversation when you come in literally as biased as anyone has ever been about a player.
I don't rank pippen over magic. You asked me a question, no my opinion I give it to you with a reason makes sense. Due to the way I view basketball and sports in general and it flies right over your head. But my philosophy held true. Both team were ableto put the ball in the hoop for the most part. But the heat couldn't stop the maverick guards.

[DeronMillsap]

Wade's 2011 Finals performance was better than any of Kobe's Finals performances.

[Jacks3]

Kobe's 2009 Finals against a 60 win team with the #1 defense in the league was easily better.

32.4 PPG
7 RPG
6 APG
2 SPG
1 BPG
54% TS

:pimp:

[tpols]

Kobe's 2009 Finals against a 60 win team with the #1 defense in the league was easily better.

32.4 PPG
7 RPG
6 APG
2 SPG
1 BPG
54% TS

:pimp:
You're also forgetting that Kobe was being heavily targeted and gameplanned for since he was easily the best player in that series, so he faced a whole lot more defensive pressure than Wade did[mainly because of Lebron who the Mavs considered the more dangerous threat after his performance in the ECF].

[Ikill]

Lets put this magic/pippen thing to bed. You asked me who would I take to start a franchise between magic and pippen. I said pippen cuz based on what I saw from both players, I know pippen could win with minimal talent. And I've maintained that magic was lazy on defense. As far as talent/skillset, magic and pippen are very similar. Where magic has pippen is accolades. and I lay that right at the door of politics. Magic was the face of the league. He was perfect for the showtime lakers and LA. You said yourself that alot of awards are given to players withh other definatetly deserving it more.

I even tried to qualify my opinion by saying that if I was to have to choose between shaq and olajuwan, based on what i saw from both players, id pick olajuwan for the same reasons id pick pippen over magic. But id rank shaq higher in the all-time rankings cuz of his accomplishments. Same as I would magic over pippen.

Going back to wade, I think he should've won the all nba defense and 1st team over kobe, but once again politics comes into play. But if were voting just who the best defender is at the sg position its neither wade or kobe. Pippen was the best virtually every year and the best overall defender too. And you get no argument from anyone in that regard.

In this finals, I saw all I needed to see from wade. And everything I said about him or that was said in that comparison with pippen solidified my pov. Where was the ability to take over games? Something pippen gets knocked for even though he did take over games. Where was the defense? Where was the clutch ability? I remember wade missing critical fts and commiting timely TOs. Along with not being able to close out a team while having a 15 pts lead. I said 06 was a fluke due to the refs paradeing wade to the ft line. And that without the refs, wade is no better than any other all-time great. I remember people saying wade couldn't win cuz he didn't have sufficient talent. Well we see that's wrong.

And I still think wade and the heat will win a championship. Maybe even with wade as the heats best player. But you know what the difference is between him and pippen? Wade is gonna have about 3 more legit chances to do it. He failed this year with all the chips on his side. Pippen had 1 and had no help.
:oldlol: You hate Wade cause he is better than Pippen. You do have a point about Wade is take over ability is not as good as it used to be but to say he never had it or 2006 was a fluke is being dumb. Wade showed his take over ability and killer instinct during college, his first 3 years, and in the 09 season. Last year is when he started to change he wasn't motivated because the team had no chance he was out of shape, and was playing passive for more than half the season. He did take over at the end of the season his team was about to slip out of the playoffs but he turned it up and almost got them to 50 wins. This year he showed very little take over ability he thought it was going to be easy and failed to put the pressure on himself.

[Jacks3]

You're also forgetting that Kobe was being heavily targeted and gameplanned for since he was easily the best player in that series, so he faced a whole lot more defensive pressure than Wade did[mainly because of Lebron who the Mavs considered the more dangerous threat after his performance in the ECF].
Very true. :applause:

[jlip]

He had two good games. Game 1 & Game 3 but he had major mistakes and flaws in the other ones.

Game 2 - wasnt aggresive down the stretch and helped cost them the game.
Game 4 - missed clutch free throw and costly turnover in the final seconds.
Game 5 - got injured so he wasnt really effective throughout the game.
Game 6 - was just awful for a win or go home game in the Finals. He had like 17 points :facepalm

Not to mention all the asshole incidents he had during the series. Mocking Dirk, flopping after missing the game winner, show boating before the game was over then actually losing.etc......

It just wasnt a good look for either Wade or Lebron in my opinon.

I was going to mention something like this regarding Wade, but I didn't feel like hearing people say that I "hating" on him. What amazes me about Wade is that he has benefitted from the hatred and criticism given to Lebron in every way. I did say this in another thread, but his failings and shortcomings have been basically ignored, and frankly his reputation especially as a "closer/ clutch" player has been enhanced despite him failing in the clutch multiple times. When Lebron fails to close out a game, then the immediate commentary is "Wade should be the Heat's closer". When Wade fails to close out a game, then that fact is either ignored or it's treated like, "Well, you can't close them all."

Wade made a very bold declaration at the end of Game 3 and repeated it in the press conference. He proclaimed himself as THE leader and "captain" of the Heat. I've never seen a player make such a grand statement regarding himself being, "The Man", but then receive such little criticism when he falls short. He closed out game 3 well, but as you mentioned in game 4, he made costly errors in the last 30 seconds of a one possession game costing his team the win. Yes, he had a great first 47 minutes, but the team's "leader/ captain" couldn't close.

In game 5 he had "only" 4 turnovers in the game, but 3 of them were in the 4th quarter. Then in the single most important game of the season, game 6, the closeout game, the "leader/ captain" has his worst performance of the series shooting 37.5% from the floor and only scores 17 points. Where was the criticism? His reputation as a closer is living primarily off 2006 which was half a decade ago. I'm the last thing from a Kobe fan, but Kobe got more criticized for his game 7 performance in last year's finals, and his team actually won. Wade again has benefitted greatly and has been given a free pass because of the focus and hate on Lebron.

[eliteballer]

Can anyone tell me why the Heat were putting LEBRON on all those small penetrating guards throughout the playoffs and not WADE?

Easy to put up numbers when the other guy has to handle the top defensive assignment.

[Simple Jack]

You're also forgetting that Kobe was being heavily targeted and gameplanned for since he was easily the best player in that series, so he faced a whole lot more defensive pressure than Wade did[mainly because of Lebron who the Mavs considered the more dangerous threat after his performance in the ECF].

He also played good minutes in garbage time iirc in game 1 giving him the 40+ point scoring outburst.

[Jacks3]

I was going to mention something like this regarding Wade, but I didn't feel like hearing people say that I "hating" on him. What amazes me about Wade is that he has benefitted from the hatred and criticism given to Lebron in every way. I did say this in another thread, but his failings and shortcomings have been basically ignored, and frankly his reputation especially as a "closer/ clutch" player has been enhanced despite him failing in the clutch multiple times. When Lebron fails to close out a game, then the immediate commentary is "Wade should be the Heat's closer". When Wade fails to close out a game, then that fact is either ignored or it's treated like, "Well, you can't close them all."

Wade made a very bold declaration at the end of Game 3 and repeated it in the press conference. He proclaimed himself as THE leader and "captain" of the Heat. I've never seen a player make such a grand statement regarding himself being, "The Man", but then receive such little criticism when he falls short. He closed out game 3 well, but as you mentioned in game 4, he made costly errors in the last 30 seconds of a one possession game costing his team the win. Yes, he had a great first 47 minutes, but the team's "leader/ captain" couldn't close.

In game 5 he had "only" 4 turnovers in the game, but 3 of them were in the 4th quarter. Then in the single most important game of the season, game 6, the closeout game, the "leader/ captain" has his worst performance of the series shooting 37.5% from the floor and only scores 17 points. Where was the criticism? His reputation as a closer is living primarily off 2006 which was half a decade ago. I'm the last thing from a Kobe fan, but Kobe got more criticized for his game 7 performance in last year's finals, and his team actually won. Wade again has benefitted greatly and has been given a free pass because of the focus and hate on Lebron.
Yeah, and he had horrible ECF and got very little criticism for it.

[tpols]

He also played good minutes in garbage time iirc in game 1 giving him the 40+ point scoring outburst.
Aren't you a Lebron fan?:oldlol:

[97 bulls]

Can anyone tell me why the Heat were putting LEBRON on all those small penetrating guards throughout the playoffs and not WADE?

Easy to put up numbers when the other guy has to handle the top defensive assignment.
Thank you. Or if spoelstra is that dumb, then wade should've stepped up and demaded that he play jose juan. Who's gonna tell him no? I blame that on wade.

[kaiiu]

all I know is Wades game 2 and 4 highlights are legendary :bowdown:

[Simple Jack]

Aren't you a Lebron fan?:oldlol:

What does that have to do with this? My statement was pertaining to the thread as a whole as well as Kobe's finals vs the Magic in comparison with Wade vs the Mavericks. It helps to take things in context.

[Kiarip]

all I know is Wades game 2 and 4 highlights are legendary :bowdown:

That's literally all you know period.

[WeGetRing2012]

Wade's 2011 Finals performance was better than any of Kobe's Finals performances.

No. But your're just trolling...

[gilalizard]

Wade is incredible. But he does get a gross amount of help and bailout calls from the refs. Perhaps more than anyone else in the history of the game.

That's the shame of it. All the favoritism he has gotten has tainted his career and accomplishments. I want to see a Dwyane Wade that is constantly bailed out and see how he matches up against others. Unfortunately I haven't gotten that.

Which makes it all the more shameful that he got LeBron and Bosh to join him while all are in the their primes. It displays an extreme lack of competitive spirit in Wade. He wants a prime LeBron on his team to bail him out (with a prime Bosh as third backup). It just shows his fundamental lack of heart and desire to actually be proving himself, instead of just racking up as many easy wins as possible.

Wade's talent is phenomenal. His competitive spirit is just pathetic.

[Simple Jack]

Wade is incredible. But he does get a gross amount of help and bailout calls from the refs. Perhaps more than anyone else in the history of the game.

That's the shame of it. All the favoritism he has gotten has tainted his career and accomplishments. I want to see a Dwyane Wade that is constantly bailed out and see how he matches up against others. Unfortunately I haven't gotten that.

Which makes it all the more shameful that he got LeBron and Bosh to join him while all are in the their primes. It displays an extreme lack of competitive spirit in Wade. He wants a prime LeBron on his team to bail him out (with a prime Bosh as third backup). It just shows his fundamental lack of heart and desire to actually be proving himself, instead of just racking up as many easy wins as possible.

Wade's talent is phenomenal. His competitive spirit is just pathetic.

Why is it bailing out? Why isn't it just wanting to play with another great player like most all-time great players had the luxury of doing? Did you question Magic's competitive spirit when he said he didn't want to go to any team but the Lakers before the draft?

[Stuckey]

i remember his jumpshot was going in like 70% or something, at least it seemed like that, he couldnt miss

i watched him rip through my pistons like tissue

the mavs were even worse

[97 bulls]

Why is it bailing out? Why isn't it just wanting to play with another great player like most all-time great players had the luxury of doing? Did you question Magic's competitive spirit when he said he didn't want to go to any team but the Lakers before the draft?
I see what he's saying. Alot is expected from a player that's areguably the best in the game. And its not his scoring. Its the leadership. He should've took it upon himself to take on the assignment of defening berea. Especially after it became obvious chalmers and bibby couldn't get it done. Rwades whole career has been blunder after blunder. Be it the injury plagued season, the loosing in the olympics, the constant 1st round exits, the 15 win season, the choking in this finals. Even in the chammpionship he won I feel it was a joke. How many players coudnt win with the refs sending them to the line the same amount as the other team?

Don't get me wrong, wades a great player. But he's not a top 5 SG. And he's not top 30 in my opinion. His game is drastically dependant on the whistle. And he should thank stern that he chaged the rules to make it easy for him to score.

[Ikill]

Yeah, and he had horrible ECF and got very little criticism for it.
why should he get criticism when no one cares when he does something good he doesn't get the hype Lebron or Kobe do.

[sh0wtime]

Please stop with that "he lacks mental fortitude" BS ok? Lebron is the best player in the world, has proven himself in the playoffs and season and has proven his confidence, if he didnt had "mental fortitude" or "confidence" he wouldnt be where he is, just stop sounding dumb ok?

There is no such thing, there was in high school and some of it in college, but as a PRO you have overcome that especially at Lebrons level, if you still crumble under "pressure" in the NBA you would have not even been in the NBA, trust me.

Are you telling me Lebron comes in to have some of the most historic clutch performances and productions in NBA history over and over and over and over and fails 2-3 games and that means he has "no mental fortitude" all of the sudden?
:facepalm

Its very simple, stop making it so damn complicated.
There is very simple things called:

"He just missed a shot"
"A shot just simply didnt go in"
"He didnt get into an offensive rythm"
"He facilitated to much, wasnt agressive"
and so on....

Stop acting like you aint clutch or you aint the best if you aint shooting 100% FG, 100% 3PT, 100% FT in the clutch (ALL THE TIME).

Lebron & Kobe have since 2005-2006 been #1 - #2 in Clutch stats productions, in both playoffs and season and have more GAMEWINNERS than anybody in the NBA, they have more than proved their "mental fortitude".

[Jacks3]

why should he get criticism when no one cares when he does something good he doesn't get the hype Lebron or Kobe do.
No one cares when he doesn't do something good? Where you around after the 2006 Finals? Suddenly he was better than Kobe/LeBron, the best in the world, the nest Jordan. It was crazy. Dude got plenty of hype.

[indiefan24]

I love me some lebron

:rockon:

[Da KO King]

Can anyone tell me why the Heat were putting LEBRON on all those small penetrating guards throughout the playoffs and not WADE?

Easy to put up numbers when the other guy has to handle the top defensive assignment.
:no: You're not allowed to say this. LeBron choked and lost the series for Miami, period.

Logical discussions regarding poor strategy from the coaching staff and Dwyane Wade destroying offensive flow with his breaking plays as reasons for the Heat losing are not permitted. Just blame LeBron and move on.

[Ikill]

Please stop with that "he lacks mental fortitude" BS ok? Lebron is the best player in the world, has proven himself in the playoffs and season and has proven his confidence, if he didnt had "mental fortitude" or "confidence" he wouldnt be where he is, just stop sounding dumb ok?

There is no such thing, there was in high school and some of it in college, but as a PRO you have overcome that especially at Lebrons level, if you still crumble under "pressure" in the NBA you would have not even been in the NBA, trust me.

Are you telling me Lebron comes in to have some of the most historic clutch performances and productions in NBA history over and over and over and over and fails 2-3 games and that means he has "no mental fortitude" all of the sudden?
:facepalm

Its very simple, stop making it so damn complicated.
There is very simple things called:

"He just missed a shot"
"A shot just simply didnt go in"
"He didnt get into an offensive rythm"
"He facilitated to much, wasnt agressive"
and so on....

Stop acting like you aint clutch or you aint the best if you aint shooting 100% FG, 100% 3PT, 100% FT in the clutch (ALL THE TIME).

Lebron & Kobe have since 2005-2006 been #1 - #2 in Clutch stats productions, in both playoffs and season and have more GAMEWINNERS than anybody in the NBA, they have more than proved their "mental fortitude".
what are you talking about?:confusedshrug:

[Ikill]

No one cares when he doesn't do something good? Where you around after the 2006 Finals? Suddenly he was better than Kobe/LeBron, the best in the world, the nest Jordan. It was crazy. Dude got plenty of hype.
You don't think that hype was deserved it was one of the greatest finals performances of all time and was only in his third year. But here is the thing if Kobe and Lebron had a finals like Wades they would get 10 times the hype. He has to do so much more to get the same recognition so why should he get as much criticism if the media is always trying forget about him.

[Ikill]

I see what he's saying. Alot is expected from a player that's areguably the best in the game. And its not his scoring. Its the leadership. He should've took it upon himself to take on the assignment of defening berea. Especially after it became obvious chalmers and bibby couldn't get it done. Rwades whole career has been blunder after blunder. Be it the injury plagued season, the loosing in the olympics, the constant 1st round exits, the 15 win season, the choking in this finals. Even in the chammpionship he won I feel it was a joke. How many players coudnt win with the refs sending them to the line the same amount as the other team?

Don't get me wrong, wades a great player. But he's not a top 5 SG. And he's not top 30 in my opinion. His game is drastically dependant on the whistle. And he should thank stern that he chaged the rules to make it easy for him to score.
Your so full of shit every player has had shortcoming dumbass. Why should Wade get blamed for the Olympics all the top NBA players were on that team why should he blamed for being injured thats bad luck. He was injured and his team wanted to tank you can't blame him for the 15 win season and the first round exit come on its a miracle he got those teams to the playoffs. He gets a lot of free throws because he's the best slasher in the NBA he attacks the most. Getting to the line is a skill its a part of the game deal with it you can't take that away from like why would they favor him Kobe and Lebron are the players the NBA wants to hype. Kobe and Lebron have had similar short comings and just as many so they should be overrated too.

[Kiarip]

Please stop with that "he lacks mental fortitude" BS ok? Lebron is the best player in the world, has proven himself in the playoffs and season and has proven his confidence, if he didnt had "mental fortitude" or "confidence" he wouldnt be where he is, just stop sounding dumb ok?

There is no such thing, there was in high school and some of it in college, but as a PRO you have overcome that especially at Lebrons level, if you still crumble under "pressure" in the NBA you would have not even been in the NBA, trust me.

Are you telling me Lebron comes in to have some of the most historic clutch performances and productions in NBA history over and over and over and over and fails 2-3 games and that means he has "no mental fortitude" all of the sudden?
:facepalm

Its very simple, stop making it so damn complicated.
There is very simple things called:

"He just missed a shot"
"A shot just simply didnt go in"
"He didnt get into an offensive rythm"
"He facilitated to much, wasnt agressive"
and so on....

Stop acting like you aint clutch or you aint the best if you aint shooting 100% FG, 100% 3PT, 100% FT in the clutch (ALL THE TIME).

Lebron & Kobe have since 2005-2006 been #1 - #2 in Clutch stats productions, in both playoffs and season and have more GAMEWINNERS than anybody in the NBA, they have more than proved their "mental fortitude".

Lebron has had more expectations on him than any player in the history of forever.

He crumbled under the pressure stop trying to make excuses.

[97 bulls]

Your so full of shit every player has had shortcoming dumbass. Why should Wade get blamed for the Olympics all the top NBA players were on that team why should he blamed for being injured thats bad luck. He was injured and his team wanted to tank you can't blame him for the 15 win season and the first round exit come on its a miracle he got those teams to the playoffs. He gets a lot of free throws because he's the best slasher in the NBA he attacks the most. Getting to the line is a skill its a part of the game deal with it you can't take that away from like why would they favor him Kobe and Lebron are the players the NBA wants to hype. Kobe and Lebron have had similar short comings and just as many so they should be overrated too.
The discussion is about wade. That's why im directing the olympics at him in this thread. All the rest of the stuff you listed are excuses. Some are valid. But still excuses.

I just expect more from a guy that people want to put in the top 15 to 30. He's a great player but hasn't accomplished enough to get that high of a ranking. And has been in a position to achieve more and failed.

[DMAVS41]

The discussion is about wade. That's why im directing the olympics at him in this thread. All the rest of the stuff you listed are excuses. Some are valid. But still excuses.

I just expect more from a guy that people want to put in the top 15 to 30. He's a great player but hasn't accomplished enough to get that high of a ranking. And has been in a position to achieve more and failed.

Expect more? What?

Regular season:

25 points 5 boards 6 assists 2 steals 1 block on 49/29/77 57% TS

25.7 PER (6th best PER of all time)


Playoffs:

26 points 6 boards 6 assists 2 steals 1 block on 48/33/79 57% TS

24.6 PER (9th best PER of all time)

Oh, and he is one of the best sg defenders in the league. Not only does he have great defensive stats individually, but his teams have been very good defensively when he's healthy. Hardly just a one way player.

He won a title and finals MVP. He owns one of the best finals performances of all time. He's played his best basketball of his career against the best defenses in the playoffs.

He also was the best (or 2nd best if you have Lebron over him) on a Gold Medal winning Olympic team.

Expect more? He's only 8 years in and he already has a body of work that should put him around the top 25 of all time.


Jesus man. Just admit you don't like Wade and you over-rate the shit out of Pippen.

LOL at your logic going over my head. You said you think Pippen was better than Magic. End of story. I asked you who you would pick first to start a team. You said Pippen.

How can we take anything you say seriously after that? Magic was twice as good as Pippen. Sorry....just the truth. Pippen has become grossly over-rated here if people really think he was better than a guy like Wade.

[Ikill]

The discussion is about wade. That's why im directing the olympics at him in this thread. All the rest of the stuff you listed are excuses. Some are valid. But still excuses.

I just expect more from a guy that people want to put in the top 15 to 30. He's a great player but hasn't accomplished enough to get that high of a ranking. And has been in a position to achieve more and failed.
He had a team that could win 3 years(05,06,11) 05 he was injured in the ECF game 7 so thats not his fault. 07,08 he was injured he couldn't do anything look at how he was moving around. 09, and 2010 he got the best out of that team. How can you can blame him for not winning in 2005 for getting injured and not being able to play? How can you blame him in 07,08 when his teams sucked and he wasn't close to the player he used to be? How can you blame Wade in 09,10 when he had the worst supporting cast in NBA and lost to way better teams? What about Lebron and Kobe
Lebron- missed the playoffs twice, lost in the Olympics, couldn't get to the finals with two 60 win teams, and played horrible in both of his finals appearances
Kobe- couldn't win the finals in 04 and 08, missed the playoffs in 05, lost in first round 06 and 07, swept by Dallas this year

[jlip]

Wade is incredible. But he does get a gross amount of help and bailout calls from the refs. Perhaps more than anyone else in the history of the game.

That's the shame of it. All the favoritism he has gotten has tainted his career and accomplishments. I want to see a Dwyane Wade that is constantly bailed out and see how he matches up against others. Unfortunately I haven't gotten that.

Which makes it all the more shameful that he got LeBron and Bosh to join him while all are in the their primes. It displays an extreme lack of competitive spirit in Wade. He wants a prime LeBron on his team to bail him out (with a prime Bosh as third backup). It just shows his fundamental lack of heart and desire to actually be proving himself, instead of just racking up as many easy wins as possible.

Wade's talent is phenomenal. His competitive spirit is just pathetic.

While I don't particularly agree with the conclusion that Wade joining with Bosh and Lebron shows a lack of competitive drive or spirit, your post brings out a point that I have been making all along. Your post is the 1st time I've read Wade singularly criticized for the Big 3 coming together. Basically all you've heard is that Lebron lacks competitive spirit and took the easy way out joining "Wade's team" while Wade has been viewed as the superstar who supposedly has been dominating and winning championships every year who was now going to carry the "weak Lebron." I've never heard anyone criticize Wade who actually recruited Lebron to come to Miami and jumped for joy like a 10 year old at Christmas when Lebron officially announced that he was signing with the Heat.

[Ikill]

While I don't particularly agree with the conclusion that Wade joining with Bosh and Lebron shows a lack of competitive drive or spirit, your post brings out a point that I have been making all along. Your post is the 1st time I've read Wade singularly criticized for the Big 3 coming together. Basically all you've heard is that Lebron lacks competitive spirit and took the easy way out joining "Wade's team" while Wade has been viewed as the superstar who supposedly has been dominating and winning championships every year who was now going to carry the "weak Lebron." I've never heard anyone criticize Wade who actually recruited Lebron to come to Miami and jumped for joy like a 10 year old at Christmas when Lebron officially announced that he was signing with the Heat.
You really want Wade to get criticized but why he doesn't hyped up no cares about him. Every little thing Lebron has done will be talked about if its a good thing he'll get crazy love if its a bad thing he'll get crazy hate. Unless Wade does some thing amazing like his 06 finals or something that is really horrible he's not going to get talked about. Lebron has it better even tho he gets a lot of hate everyone understands how good he is people do not understand how good Wade is some of the shit that these dumb Kobe fans get away with saying is crazy.

[97 bulls]

Expect more? What?

Regular season:

25 points 5 boards 6 assists 2 steals 1 block on 49/29/77 57% TS

25.7 PER (6th best PER of all time)
these are stats that are skewed cuz wade hasn't had a complete career yet. All those career avgs are gonna level off with time and age. It happens to all players. As an example, im sure reggie miller has scored more points than wade but that's cuz he played in the league for over 15 years.
Playoffs:

26 points 6 boards 6 assists 2 steals 1 block on 48/33/79 57% TS

24.6 PER (9th best PER of all time)

Oh, and he is one of the best sg defenders in the league. Not only does he have great defensive stats individually, but his teams have been very good defensively when he's healthy. Hardly just a one way player.

He won a title and finals MVP. He owns one of the best finals performances of all time. He's played his best basketball of his career against the best defenses in the playoffs.

He also was the best (or 2nd best if you have Lebron over him) on a Gold Medal winning Olympic team.

Expect more? He's only 8 years in and he already has a body of work that should put him around the top 25 of all time.
he's building that resume. But he's not top 25.

Jesus man. Just admit you don't like Wade and you over-rate the shit out of Pippen.

LOL at your logic going over my head. You said you think Pippen was better than Magic. End of story. I asked you who you would pick first to start a team. You said Pippen.
Ill say this again, you aked me who would I take between magic and pippen to start a franchise. I said I would take pippen cuz I value his defense and ability to take minimally talented teams far. But due to body of work, magic is in the top 10. Much higher than pippen. How is that saying I think pippen is better than magic? I even tried to qualify your question by saying talent and styles of both players are similar. Even their stats. And skillset.
How can we take anything you say seriously after that? Magic was twice as good as Pippen. Sorry....just the truth. Pippen has become grossly over-rated here if people really think he was better than a guy like Wade.
And just to show how consistant I am, the same reason I hold wade back in the all-time rankings is the same reaosn I hold back pippen. Wades lack of body of work and failures hurt him. How many top 25 players could loose to a team when they're the favorite, homecourt advantage, plenty of help, and with the opposing team havings injuries to key players? Im even confident that pippen would've won if he were put under the same conditions. But pippens lack of body of work hurts him too. I mean, he has 6 championships, but those are more of a team accomplishment than personal. He's top 25 in my opinion cuz he's arguably the greatest defender ever from the perimeter. I hold him in such a high regard cuz I saw what he could do with minimal talent. And ill ask you a question, who could've done better than pippen did in his two years leading a team under those conditions? Magic? Jordan? Dirk? Wilt? Bird? Definately not wade. The best he could do with similarly talented teams is 500. Unfortuantely for pippen he didn't have a legit 5 years to show whether or not he could win with a super talented team but with him as the best player. Its unfortunate cuz it hurts his overall ranking.

Now as far as talent. The fact is the top 50 players are not that far apart when it comes to talent. So when you say magic is twice the player pippen is.... that not realistic. Magic was in a better position than pippen was. Doesn't mean he's better. He's definately ranked higher than pippen. But no I don't think magic is a better basketball player than pippen in the sense of talent. Give pippen dikembe mutombo (kareem) prime shawn marion (worthy) bruce bowen (cooper) undonis haslem (green) kevin martin (scott) and they run the league. And hold their opponants to 70 ppg. And pippen would be the best player on that team. Alot has to do with a players situation. Or at least that's how I look at it.

[KOLBCTEW]

And just to show how consistant I am, the same reason I hold wade back in the all-time rankings is the same reaosn I hold back pippen. Wades lack of body of work and failures hurt him. How many top 25 players could loose to a team when they're the favorite, homecourt advantage, plenty of help, and with the opposing team havings injuries to key players? You act like the Miami Heat wasn't without it's share of injuries.. Miller was playing with two banged up thumbs, Haslem was still recovering from a major injury, Jones had a foot injury and was unable to play, And Wade who had been dominant in the first four games got injured in game 5 and his play suffered the rest of the way. Bibby who had been such a blackhole in every respect that they decided to start House who hadn't played until I believe the last game of the series. And Lebron's passiveness only compounded matters.

[Ikill]

And just to show how consistant I am, the same reason I hold wade back in the all-time rankings is the same reaosn I hold back pippen. Wades lack of body of work and failures hurt him. How many top 25 players could loose to a team when they're the favorite, homecourt advantage, plenty of help, and with the opposing team havings injuries to key players? Im even confident that pippen would've won if he were put under the same conditions. But pippens lack of body of work hurts him too. I mean, he has 6 championships, but those are more of a team accomplishment than personal. He's top 25 in my opinion cuz he's arguably the greatest defender ever from the perimeter. I hold him in such a high regard cuz I saw what he could do with minimal talent. And ill ask you a question, who could've done better than pippen did in his two years leading a team under those conditions? Magic? Jordan? Dirk? Wilt? Bird? Definately not wade. The best he could do with similarly talented teams is 500. Unfortuantely for pippen he didn't have a legit 5 years to show whether or not he could win with a super talented team but with him as the best player. Its unfortunate cuz it hurts his overall ranking.

Now as far as talent. The fact is the top 50 players are not that far apart when it comes to talent. So when you say magic is twice the player pippen is.... that not realistic. Magic was in a better position than pippen was. Doesn't mean he's better. He's definately ranked higher than pippen. But no I don't think magic is a better basketball player than pippen in the sense of talent. Give pippen dikembe mutombo (kareem) prime shawn marion (worthy) bruce bowen (cooper) undonis haslem (green) kevin martin (scott) and they run the league. And hold their opponants to 70 ppg. And pippen would be the best player on that team. Alot has to do with a players situation. Or at least that's how I look at it.
What makes Wades failures any worse than Lebrons or Kobes

Wade- missed the playoffs 08, lost in the first round 09 and 10, lost in the finals 11, lost in the Olympics
Lebron- missed the playoffs 04 and 05, lost in the finals 07 and 11, lost in the Olympics, could not get to the finals with 60 win team 09 and 10
Kobe- missed the playoffs 05, lost in the finals 04 and 08, got swept by Dallas 11

Wade has had 2 chances in his whole career to win a ring 06, 11 Lebron has had 4 teams that had a chance to win 07, 09,10, 11 Kobe has had a good enough team his career not including 05-07. Out of the 3 of them Wade has the most legit reasons to why he came up short in those times.

[Ikill]

Even Jordan missed the playoffs and lost in the first round

[PJR]

97 bulls is a tool, and presents a strong Bulls bias in 90% of his post. This guy really said Pippen was greater than Magic? :oldlol:

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Despite the fact it was shoddy officiating, you still have to give Wade credit. He still had a legendary series.

[97 bulls]

You act like the Miami Heat wasn't without it's share of injuries.. Miller was playing with two banged up thumbs, Haslem was still recovering from a major injury, Jones had a foot injury and was unable to play, And Wade who had been dominant in the first four games got injured in game 5 and his play suffered the rest of the way. Bibby who had been such a blackhole in every respect that they decided to start House who hadn't played until I believe the last game of the series. And Lebron's passiveness only compounded matters.
You're right. But they played. Dallas had their share of injuries and in my opinion, loosing your backup center and having dirk play with a bad finger were big hits to the mavs. And they overcame them. Haslem isn't the type of player whose contributions are dependant on scoring. I don't see him playing much better thanwhat he shoowed in the final. The same with bibby. But I agree miller was visibly hurt. Either way the heat should've won.

[97 bulls]

What makes Wades failures any worse than Lebrons or Kobes

Wade- missed the playoffs 08, lost in the first round 09 and 10, lost in the finals 11, lost in the Olympics
Lebron- missed the playoffs 04 and 05, lost in the finals 07 and 11, lost in the Olympics, could not get to the finals with 60 win team 09 and 10
Kobe- missed the playoffs 05, lost in the finals 04 and 08, got swept by Dallas 11

Wade has had 2 chances in his whole career to win a ring 06, 11 Lebron has had 4 teams that had a chance to win 07, 09,10, 11 Kobe has had a good enough team his career not including 05-07. Out of the 3 of them Wade has the most legit reasons to why he came up short in those times.
Your correct as far as the lebron/kobe/ wade comparisons. But kobe does have 5 championship multiple scoring titles and an mvp as well as 2 finals mvps. James is still building his resume but has accomplished more than wade in my opinion also.

[97 bulls]

97 bulls is a tool, and presents a strong Bulls bias in 90% of his post. This guy really said Pippen was greater than Magic? :oldlol:
Lol im a tool? Most fans are biased towards their teams. But the way dmavs worded that question is why I answered it the way I did. If he asked me who would I rank higher? I would've said magic. He didn't ask that question. And then he didn't really care to read my response once I said id choose pippen to run my franchise over magic. The fact is I know what im gonna get with pippen with minimal talent. Magic I don't know. Hell with the way magic is. If he was on a bad team, he may even jump ship. And im confident that with equal help, could lead a team to multiple championships as magic did. Am I wrong?

Just to show how bull headed dmavs is. I said I was more impressed with what shawn marion did in this final playing lebron james than what dirk was doing. He takes that as me saying marion was playing better than dirk. His comprehension is extremly limited.

[indiefan24]

Lol im a tool? Most fans are biased towards their teams. But the way dmavs worded that question is why I answered it the way I did. If he asked me who would I rank higher? I would've said magic. He didn't ask that question. And then he didn't really care to read my response once I said id choose pippen to run my franchise over magic. The fact is I know what im gonna get with pippen with minimal talent. Magic I don't know. Hell with the way magic is. If he was on a bad team, he may even jump ship. And im confident that with equal help, could lead a team to multiple championships as magic did. Am I wrong?

Just to show how bull headed dmavs is. I said I was more impressed with what shawn marion did in this final playing lebron james than what dirk was doing. He takes that as me saying marion was playing better than dirk. His comprehension is extremly limited.

No one will stop gyno

[KOLBCTEW]

loosing your backup center Losing one of your three point specialists in Jones especially when the other in Miller was as hampered as he was is big as well.

having dirk play with a bad finger were big hits to the mavs. And they overcame them.
Bad finger on his non-shooting hand.... Rly?? That was a big hit??? Numerous analysts came out saying that would be a virtual non-issue.



The same with bibby. http://www.zimbio.com/Mike+Bibby/articles/1R8fgOxejx_/Mike+Bibby+Worst+Player+NBA+Playoffs+History
Bibby was literally setting records with his ineffective play on both ends of the floor. Putting up arguably the worst stats for a starter in nba playoff history.


Either way the heat should've won. That I agree with.

[DMAVS41]

And just to show how consistant I am, the same reason I hold wade back in the all-time rankings is the same reaosn I hold back pippen. Wades lack of body of work and failures hurt him. How many top 25 players could loose to a team when they're the favorite, homecourt advantage, plenty of help, and with the opposing team havings injuries to key players? Im even confident that pippen would've won if he were put under the same conditions. But pippens lack of body of work hurts him too. I mean, he has 6 championships, but those are more of a team accomplishment than personal. He's top 25 in my opinion cuz he's arguably the greatest defender ever from the perimeter. I hold him in such a high regard cuz I saw what he could do with minimal talent. And ill ask you a question, who could've done better than pippen did in his two years leading a team under those conditions? Magic? Jordan? Dirk? Wilt? Bird? Definately not wade. The best he could do with similarly talented teams is 500. Unfortuantely for pippen he didn't have a legit 5 years to show whether or not he could win with a super talented team but with him as the best player. Its unfortunate cuz it hurts his overall ranking.

Now as far as talent. The fact is the top 50 players are not that far apart when it comes to talent. So when you say magic is twice the player pippen is.... that not realistic. Magic was in a better position than pippen was. Doesn't mean he's better. He's definately ranked higher than pippen. But no I don't think magic is a better basketball player than pippen in the sense of talent. Give pippen dikembe mutombo (kareem) prime shawn marion (worthy) bruce bowen (cooper) undonis haslem (green) kevin martin (scott) and they run the league. And hold their opponants to 70 ppg. And pippen would be the best player on that team. Alot has to do with a players situation. Or at least that's how I look at it.


Are you serious with the bold? We just saw Kobe and Shaq both do that in 04. They nearly got swept. It was one of the biggest finals upsets in NBA history. They are both top 10 players. Not to mention that Wade actually played well.....Kobe was awful. Huge difference.

This is why I hate ranking players so heavily on team accomplishments. Wade played great in the Finals this year overall. Much better than Kobe did last year. The difference? Kobe's teammates stepped up. Wade's didn't. Lebron and Bosh were a joke in the Finals. An absolute joke. If Wade plays the exact same and Lebron/Bosh just play a little better and the Heat win....people are talking about Wade in the top 15 all time and talking about him as one of the best finals performers ever.

You just over-rate the shit out of Pippen man. There is no way around it. If Pippen had been the man on his team for his entire career, he might have a title, but more often than not his team would fall short because he wouldn't be the best player on the floor almost every single time in the later rounds in the playoffs. He'd run up against a player like Hakeem or Robinson or Magic or Malone or Barkley.....and he'd lose.

Wade? Nah....he could be the best player against some of those guys for a series. Pippen? Nope. Thats the difference.

[Ikill]

Are you serious with the bold? We just saw Kobe and Shaq both do that in 04. They nearly got swept. It was one of the biggest finals upsets in NBA history. They are both top 10 players. Not to mention that Wade actually played well.....Kobe was awful. Huge difference.

This is why I hate ranking players so heavily on team accomplishments. Wade played great in the Finals this year overall. Much better than Kobe did last year. The difference? Kobe's teammates stepped up. Wade's didn't. Lebron and Bosh were a joke in the Finals. An absolute joke. If Wade plays the exact same and Lebron/Bosh just play a little better and the Heat win....people are talking about Wade in the top 15 all time and talking about him as one of the best finals performers ever.

You just over-rate the shit out of Pippen man. There is no way around it. If Pippen had been the man on his team for his entire career, he might have a title, but more often than not his team would fall short because he wouldn't be the best player on the floor almost every single time in the later rounds in the playoffs. He'd run up against a player like Hakeem or Robinson or Magic or Malone or Barkley.....and he'd lose.

Wade? Nah....he could be the best player against some of those guys for a series. Pippen? Nope. Thats the difference.
:applause:

[97 bulls]

Are you serious with the bold? We just saw Kobe and Shaq both do that in 04. They nearly got swept. It was one of the biggest finals upsets in NBA history. They are both top 10 players. Not to mention that Wade actually played well.....Kobe was awful. Huge difference.
this is true. But its still a reare occurance. Very rare

This is why I hate ranking players so heavily on team accomplishments. Wade played great in the Finals this year overall. Much better than Kobe did last year. The difference? Kobe's teammates stepped up. Wade's didn't. Lebron and Bosh were a joke in the Finals. An absolute joke. If Wade plays the exact same and Lebron/Bosh just play a little better and the Heat win....people are talking about Wade in the top 15 all time and talking about him as one of the best finals performers ever.
this is what's amazing you say pippen couldn't win for whatever reason but then say wades teammates are to blame for the heats loss?

You just over-rate the shit out of Pippen man. There is no way around it. If Pippen had been the man on his team for his entire career, he might have a title, but more often than not his team would fall short because he wouldn't be the best player on the floor almost every single time in the later rounds in the playoffs. He'd run up against a player like Hakeem or Robinson or Magic or Malone or Barkley.....and he'd lose.
I know, I know I overrate the shit out of pippen. You still can't tell me why. You just keep saying it. You wont answer my questions. You just keep accusing.
Wade? Nah....he could be the best player against some of those guys for a series. Pippen? Nope. Thats the difference.
sure as long as the refs continue to send him to the line at an amzing rate. A rate that not even wilt chamberlain or shaq could meet even when they were intentionally fouled

You will continue to discredit pippen. I understand that. Ill even concede wade will get a few more rings. But the difference is and you have no rebutal for this, is PIPPEN NEVER HAD THE CHANCES TO PROVE WHAT HE COULD DO WHILE WADE HAS.

Why you can't comprehend this is sheerly bull-headed. Do you understand the difference between a guy that can't and never had a chance? Barkley couldn't get it done. He had 8 years to do it. Same with malone, the list goes on and on.

Your lack of reasoning is your flaw.

[DMAVS41]

You will continue to discredit pippen. I understand that. Ill even concede wade will get a few more rings. But the difference is and you have no rebutal for this, is PIPPEN NEVER HAD THE CHANCES TO PROVE WHAT HE COULD DO WHILE WADE HAS.

Why you can't comprehend this is sheerly bull-headed. Do you understand the difference between a guy that can't and never had a chance? Barkley couldn't get it done. He had 8 years to do it. Same with malone, the list goes on and on.

Your lack of reasoning is your flaw.

Because I saw Pippen play nearly every single game of his career and he just wasn't as good as those guys.

He was a 2nd option for a reason. He had a skill set that would flourish being the 2nd banana. If you asked him to carry a team he simply would not have been able to do it on the level of the guys we are talking about.


Basically, what you are saying is that KG is the best player of all time. He certainly has a bigger impact on both ends than Pippen did. Jesus man. If you think Pippen is better than Magic. Where the hell do you rank KG? KG was just a better version of Pippen.....much better I might add.

You value all around play and think that wins. I don't think that trumps the the things that more specialized players bring to the table.

[Kargo]

You're right. But they played. Dallas had their share of injuries and in my opinion, loosing your backup center and having dirk play with a bad finger were big hits to the mavs. And they overcame them. Haslem isn't the type of player whose contributions are dependant on scoring. I don't see him playing much better thanwhat he shoowed in the final. The same with bibby. But I agree miller was visibly hurt. Either way the heat should've won.

Why,because that would have made the Bulls look better?:facepalm

The better team won.

[97 bulls]

Because I saw Pippen play nearly every single game of his career and he just wasn't as good as those guys.
what we saw was pippen playing a role. Next to what most people feel is the greatest player ever. That means anybody that's played next to jordan woudve been the second best player on the team
He was a 2nd option for a reason. He had a skill set that would flourish being the 2nd banana. If you asked him to carry a team he simply would not have been able to do it on the level of the guys we are talking about.
here comes that wording thing again. When you say second option do you mean second best player? Or second option in the context of scorer? Cuz there's plenty of teams that I put put together that would dominate and with pippen as the best player

Basically, what you are saying is that KG is the best player of all time. He certainly has a bigger impact on both ends than Pippen did. Jesus man. If you think Pippen is better than Magic. Where the hell do you rank KG? KG was just a better version of Pippen.....much better I might add.
the knock on garnett was that he shied away from the big shots. And yes I do rank him higher than pippen. But he was a taller version of pippen. But unlike pippen garnett had roughly 8 years to lead a team to a championship.
You value all around play and think that wins. I don't think that trumps the the things that more specialized players bring to the table.
I agree versitlily doesn't trump big time scorers. And vice versa. Case and point. Magic was the best player on the showtime lakers. And his style was versitle. And he was great at passing. But he was probably the 3rd best scorer on the showtime lakers behind worthy and jabaar.
I honestly think we have a fundamental difference in how we rank players. Mine makes more sense cuz I dont allow players styles to cloud my judgement. I understand the difference between "talent" and "ranking". Shaq was more talented than olajuwan. But I would take olajuwan over him. But due to resume shaq is higher. Now we can discuss the circumstances that makes shaq higher. Cuz there certainly there.

I understand that due to players styles they're gonna take over a game in a different way. You feel if a player doesn't score 8 straight points in the 4th then he can't take over games. And while I agree you obviously have to put the ball in the basket, its just not that simple. No more simple than me saying if you have enough wood, you can build a house. Im just trying to get you to think outside the box bro.

Basketball has evolved from the 60s,70s, and 80s when the object was centered around scoring. Even in this years draft. I was amzed at how high guys that are more known for defense were being taken. Even non centers.

The views on what's great are changing and you need to change with it.

[97 bulls]

Why,because that would have made the Bulls look better?:facepalm

The better team won.
How would the heat winning make the bulls better?

[LA_Showtime]

You know what I think is funny? Gyno said the only reason he rags on Kobe is because he's overrated on these boards. Well, Kobe lost, and he really isn't overrated because most people agree he belongs in the 8-12 range, and yet Gyno just keeps up doing his thing. Interesting.