Memo: NBA proposing $45M hard cap

[Basketball Fan]

http://www.sportsbusinessdaily.com/Journal/Issues/2011/05/16/Leagues-and-Governing-Bodies/NBA-memo.aspx

[quote]Memo: NBA proposing $45M hard cap
By John Lombardo, Staff Writer

Published May 16, 2011, Page 4
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[KenneBell]

It's gonna be a long summer. :(

[Crown&Coke]

what the f?

45 mil???? Teams are going to be straight raking in the loot if that is the case.


do they seriously expect top tier guys to have max contracts starting at 9 million???

Lebron alone made the Cavs franchise boost to what 350 million after it was hovering less than 100 million just days before he was drafted.

[adri41]

Booooooooooooo.

[DStebb716]

This has to be a joke. $45 mill cap? It would probably be delayed for a few years if they agreed to it (not sure if it says that in story) but come on.

There goes NY, Miami, Atlanta, Los Angeles Lakers, Orlando, Chicago, Dallas... and more.

Honestly, a hard cap at around 65 mill is the only thing close to reasonable. If you're going to put in a HARD cap then you have to RAISE the cap. The salary cap right now is virtually like 80 million with all these exceptions and the ability to fill your roster over the cap. Dropping it to 45 makes zero sense.

[Irish]

This will never happen, if it did all the big Euro teams would start poaching stars by offering way more than what the NBA could offer.

[Rowe]

Stern is playing around.

He knows if they keep a "Hard cap" there will be no NBA season to be played, which means that those teams who are losing money will be screwed big time with no product on the floor at all.

[ProfessorMurder]

:oldlol: Miami Heat would be so f*cked.

Bron+Wade+Bosh = 47,557,000 next season.

[KenneBell]

:oldlol: Miami Heat would be so f*cked.

Bron+Wade+Bosh = 47,557,000 next season.
So would the Lakers, Celtics, and Mavs.

[PowerGlove]

Everyone would be f*cked.

I think only sacramento is under that.

[kaiiu]

:oldlol: Miami Heat would be so f*cked.

Bron+Wade+Bosh = 47,557,000 next season.
http://www.rad-dudes.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/reactiongifs.gif

[NuggetsFan]

How would that even work? Down the line max contracts\contracts in general just sink lower? Max contracts would be like 7mill opposed to like 16 8 years from now or what?. That'd be sick, but seems ridiculously impossible.

Hard cap would be nice. Giving every team the same advantage regardless of what market there in or how cheap there owner is. Sucks some teams get an advantage because there owner is willing to go deep in the pockets when other teams have owners who go out of there way to cut costs.

[NuggetsFan]

put the NBA below the NHL?

First playoffs I've ever watched in the NHL and it's actually pretty cool. Seeing players CARE that much was pretty awesome. You had dude's getting hit with a puck and there faces getting destoyed but where back on the ice 15 minutes later. Nice change of pace when you see guy's in the NBA miss two weeks because a sore foot.

I'd be all for the NBA taking the NHL rode. F*ck the "stars" in good markets, even watching the NBA finals this year was a joke. ESPN|Everything surrounding the NBA was focused on the story lines of LeBron|Heat like a sitcom rather than the actual great play in the finals.

[MeLO MvP 15]

Any hard cap would have to be like $60 mil along with an amnesty clause and rollbacks (so teams can adjust). But then why would the players agree. It's just the owners doing the classic "start big so the real offer doesn't look as bad."

[Crown&Coke]

How can teams go from 58million (with a soft cap that nobody adheres to) down to 45 million with a hard cap?

This has to be like the opening figures, low ball and then negotiate from the lower price up so the total improvement is only marginal

[BankShot]

Wouldn't this severely handicap the teams under or around the cap right now?

Teams like L.A, Chicago, Dallas, and Orlando, are all so far over the cap because they already have players and assets in place.

Teams like Minnesota, Sacramento, and Indiana, have managed their salaries so that they have cap for the next season or two.

If there's a hard cap at $45 million, the teams with cap space (their greatest asset) would no longer have it, while the teams with huge salaries (players are their greatest asset) would still have them.

[ihatetimthomas]

This is why the NBA and the players union is so far apart. This is not a feasible deal.

[ProfessorMurder]

Everyone would be f*cked.

I think only sacramento is under that.

Just checked, Kings and TWolves are under 45 for next season... Until they sign some more players. Bobcats are at like 49.

[Crown&Coke]

Just checked, Kings and TWolves are under 45 for next season... Until they sign some more players. Bobcats are at like 49.

these are the only teams eligible for the NBA Playoffs in 2011-2012, NBA finals would be epic

[ProfessorMurder]

these are the only teams eligible for the NBA Playoffs in 2011-2012, NBA finals would be epic

Cousins for Finals MVP, book it! :oldlol:

[PowerGlove]

Cousins for Finals MVP, book it! :oldlol:
Tyreke wont allow Cousins to shine like that. You know he's gonna ball hog late in the 4th and brick all his shots .

[Crown&Coke]

Tyreke wont allow Cousins to shine like that. You know he's gonna ball hog late in the 4th and brick all his shots .

Russell Westbrook would be proud.

[ProfessorMurder]

Tyreke wont allow Cousins to shine like that. You know he's gonna ball hog late in the 4th and brick all his shots .

Cousins would Sprewell on him.

[R.I.P.]

Giving the trophy to Cuban must have ****ed up Stern

[Crown&Coke]

Cousins would Sprewell on him.

Spree did it with a mad face, Cousins would do it with a confused look on his face

[Soundwave]

The players union laughs at this.

Even the NHL hard cap is approaching $60 million and the NBA has a far better TV deal and generates more money.

[asdf1990]

:oldlol: Miami Heat would be so f*cked.

Bron+Wade+Bosh = 47,557,000 next season.

If u think thats bad look at the lakers salary.

Lakers big 3

gasol+kobe+bynum= 59 Mil.

they have 94 mil on the books for the next season.

Heat
big 3= 48 mil

65 mil on the books for next season.

Lakers would be raped hard if this happens.

[LJJ]

NBA owners propose a $45M hard cap.


NBA players association response:
http://www.gifsoup.com/view3/1239868/stone-cold-laughing-o.gif

[Crown&Coke]

If u think thats bad look at the lakers salary.

Lakers big 3

gasol+kobe+bynum= 59 Mil.

they have 94 mil on the books for the next season.

Heat
big 3= 48 mil

65 mil on the books for next season.

Lakers would be raped hard if this happens.

yup, even if the hard cap started at 60 and went down gradually, they would still have 1 million to spend on 10 additional players to meet the 13 player min (after they cut everyone else to fit under the cap)

you know they are pushing to simply wipe away about 25% of the players salaries with a drop of a hat.... players negotiated heavily to get their money and in one foul swoop 25% is gone baby gone

[Soundwave]

I really think there's going to be a work stoppage which really sucks because this last NBA season was one of the most entertaining in a long time.

[1Time4YourMind]

hope this is just a stern strong-arm tactic cuz if not... :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[GOBB]

This is dumb, how are these NBA players going to feed their families!!!!! :eek:

[ronniec]

:oldlol: Miami Heat would be so f*cked.

Bron+Wade+Bosh = 47,557,000 next season.

That's why many think, the Heat WON'T have a better chance next year!!!

Before they can upgrade their roster, they may need to break it up, and trade a couple of core/star players away first.

[Parps]

what about just cranking up the luxury tax to a crazy level?

[GOBB]

That's why many think, the Heat WON'T have a better chance next year!!!

Before they can upgrade their roster, they may need to break it up, and trade a couple of core/star players away first.

Miami Heat got to the NBA Finals and were 2 wins away from partying on South Beach. Your post might make sense if this team was knocked out the 2nd rd in 5gms. Unfortunately that isnt the case. But yeah, the sky is falling the sky is falling how will Miami have a better chance next year :(

:facepalm

[Crown&Coke]

what about just cranking up the luxury tax to a crazy level?

good idea

I was thinking instead of a $1 tax, do it a $2 tax, that money gets recycled back to the teams who didn't pay the tax, which means more money for them=more profit

so if the Lakers are 25 million over the tax, they pay 50 million. that would make teams think twice about paying twice

[LJJ]

This is dumb, how are these NBA players going to feed their families!!!!! :eek:

I know right. How are those owners ever going to become wealthy if the players take a big piece of the NBA's income? That's ludicrous, the owners are much more deserving.

[LurkingFanboy]

good idea

I was thinking instead of a $1 tax, do it a $2 tax, that money gets recycled back to the teams who didn't pay the tax, which means more money for them=more profit

so if the Lakers are 25 million over the tax, they pay 50 million. that would make teams think twice about paying twice
Nah. The big market teams would still do it to grab a dominant player. And the smaller market teams or teams with dirt bag greedy owners like the Clippers would stay under and just pocket the cash coming in. I say hard cap just move the cap up and leave it alone. Players can take a pay cut but that's ridiculous.

[Apocalyptic0n3]

That's kinda what I expected the initial hard cap proposal to be. It will end up being about $55 million, I think, but they had to start low so that they could compromise.

To those wondering how in the world super stars can take $9 million, look at the NHL. This year's cap (which is hard, mind you) is just under $59 million, very comparable to the NBA. However, the NHL GMs have to fit as many as 10 more players under that cap than the NBA does and the NBA's current cap is soft, with most teams going far over it. Bettman is a Stern protege, actually put into power by Stern. The hard cap was, from what I have read, actually a Stern proposal, likely as a beta test for the NBA. It has worked incredibly well in the NHL, so... here comes the NBA's hard cap.

Just for the sake of comparison, the two highest paid players in the NHL (Vancouver's Roberto Luongo and Tampa Bay's Vinny Lecavlier) make $10 million this season, with cap hits of $5.5 and $7.5 million each. The highest cap hit in the NHL is Alex Ovechkin at $9.5 million. (In the NHL, the cap hit is the average salary over the length of the contract, which is a loophole. You sign a star to a 15 year contract with 10 very high paying years and then 5 minimum years tacked onto the end and the cap hit is much much lower than what he will make in the first 10 years)

[MaxFly]

That's kinda what I expected the initial hard cap proposal to be. It will end up being about $55 million, I think, but they had to start low so that they could compromise.


This is exactly what I suspect. $45 million isn't a serious number. It's an extreme initial number for the purposes of negotiations. A higher compromise will be reached... I suspect somewhere around $60 million.

[BlueandGold]

Screw the owners, way more greedier than the players ever will be.

Many people scrutinize how players are payed millions to play the game that they love. What they don't mention is that these players (especially NFL) give up their bodies to entertain billions of people. The average career-span of an NFL running back is 3 years. The owners, on the other hand, make billions of dollars watching the sport that they love.

If you look at the % of the revenue that's being shared currently the owners get a much bigger piece of the pie (even under current CBA in the NBA) than the players ever will, and their still fighting for a bigger cut.

[chips93]

the nba using the media as a negotiating tool

[B]

Screw the owners, way more greedier than the players ever will be.

Many people scrutinize how players are payed millions to play the game that they love. What they don't mention is that these players (especially NFL) give up their bodies to entertain billions of people. The average career-span of an NFL running back is 3 years. The owners, on the other hand, make billions of dollars watching the sport that they love.

If you look at the % of the revenue that's being shared currently the owners get a much bigger piece of the pie (even under current CBA in the NBA) than the players ever will, and their still fighting for a bigger cut.
:facepalm :facepalm
Go learn about the current CBA and get back with us on who's getting the larger %

[bingo123]

:oldlol: Miami Heat would be so f*cked.

Bron+Wade+Bosh = 47,557,000 next season.

3 higest payed players for each team in 2011-2012 season (all numbers are rounded up exp: if total is 33,2 or 33,7 its rounded to 34)
ATL Johnson+Smith+Hinrich= 39M, Crawford is FA (last year salary M) T 71M
BOS KG+PP+Ray= 46 M T 84M
CHA Diaw+Jackson+Przybilla= 26M T 67M
CHI Booz+Deng+Rose= 33M T 56M
CLE Jamison+Davis+Varejao= 37M T 54M
DAL Dirk+JET+Kidd= 38M, Chandler and Butler are FA (last year 24M) T 91M
DEN no meaning in doing any calculation since 4/5 top paid playes are FA or have opt T 66M
DET Rip+Gordon+Charlie= 32M, Prince is FA (last year 11M) T 66M
GSW Ellis+Lee+Biedrins= 31M T 68M
HOU Martin+Scola+Lowry= 26M, Yao probably done? T 73M
IND same as DEN 4/6 top paid are FA T 65M
LAC Kaman+Mo+Griffin= 27M T 53M
LAL Kobe+Gasol+Bynum= 59M T 92M
MEM Zach (his exact numbers are not known yet)+Rudy+Conely=39M, Battier is FA (this year 7M) T 70M
MIA Bosh+James+Wade= 48M T 67M
MIL Bogut+Maggette+Salmons= 31M, Redd is FA (last year 19M) T 70M
MIN Beasley+Wabster+Milicic= 17M T 54M
NJN DW+Outlaw+Morrow= 28M, Gadzuric is FA (last year 8M) T 60M
NOH CP+Okafor+West= 37M T 69M
NYK Melo+Amare+Billups= 51M T 68M
OKC KD+Perkins+Harden= 26M, Nazr probably gone? (last year 7M) T 58M
ORL DH12+Arenas+Hedo=48M, Richardson is FA (last year14M) T 90M
PHI Brand+Iggy+Nocioni= 38M T 70M
PHX VC (non-guaranteed)+Nash+Childress= 36M T 66M
POR Roy+Camby+Aldridge= 41M T 71M
SAC Udrih+Garcia+Evans= 17M, Dalembert is FA (last year 14M) T 44M
SAS TD+Parker+Manu= 47M T 70M
TOR Jose+Bargnani+Barbosa= 27M T 70M
UTA AJ+Okur+Harris= 35M, AK is FA (last year 18M) T 75M
WAS Lewis+Blatche+Wall= 33M T 60M

*T team payroll in 2010/2011

Now I dont really know why I did this but when you consider how important are those players that are listed above, MIA is looking damn good with their salaries. The best looking elite teams in terms of their payrolls are MIA, CHI and OKC.

Teams that are really fvcked up if anything like that is agreed?
BOS
DAL
LAL
NYK
ORL
POR
SAS
UTA

[gilalizard]

This has to be a joke. $45 mill cap? It would probably be delayed for a few years if they agreed to it (not sure if it says that in story) but come on.

There goes NY, Miami, Atlanta, Los Angeles Lakers, Orlando, Chicago, Dallas... and more.

Honestly, a hard cap at around 65 mill is the only thing close to reasonable. If you're going to put in a HARD cap then you have to RAISE the cap. The salary cap right now is virtually like 80 million with all these exceptions and the ability to fill your roster over the cap. Dropping it to 45 makes zero sense.

45 million is the league/owners lowballing the players.

If a hard cap is in the final deal, it will be higher I'd bet. Unless the players utterly fail at the negotiating table.

[Rose]

45 million is the league/owners lowballing the players.

If a hard cap is in the final deal, it will be higher I'd bet. Unless the players utterly fail at the negotiating table.
Usually they have a good union.

I think it winds up being at 62 million or whatever the cap(not tax) was set at this year.

[wang4three]

Eh, it's just a starting point. This could end at like 55-60 million.

[LA_Showtime]

Well, at this point a lockout seems inevitable. If there's a shortened NBA season, then the Lakers are going to win the championship. That's God's way of laughing at everyone. Can you imagine the arguments: "Kobe only has 5.5 rings because it was half a season..." blah blah blah

[bigdog13]

The new hard cap can be acheived immediately, be it at $45MM or $52MM or whatever. Remember, every contract in the NHL was cut by 24% when the new CBA was signed in order to get under the cap. It was collectively bargained. Yes $3MM average salary is a large reduction but most will either make $9MM or $1MM.
Next year the salary cap will be $zero so even $45Million would be better than that.

I am looking forward to a hardcap in order to balance out the playing field.

[MeLO MvP 15]

Someone made a thread earlier this week about how far off the final CBA was last time it expired. Stern and the owners wanted similar crazy things, but settled on what we have now.

[DCL]

haven't you guys ever negotiated to buy a car?

you never give your "deal price" from your first bid. gonna be lots of back and forth.

[DKLaker]

This will never happen, if it did all the big Euro teams would start poaching stars by offering way more than what the NBA could offer.

EXACTLY!!!!!! The NBA would be destroyed quickly.

Not only would the Euro League teams offer huge tax free contracts and perks such as houses and cars but also Someone would try to start a rival league in the U.S and probably focus on only the big markets.....their version of contraction the NBA has looked at.......this would insure that the talent pool would not be watered down and no team would lose money.

The NBA office is not doing their homework :facepalm

[bdreason]

This has to be a joke. The owners claim to have a problem with the cap, but you have franchises like Atlanta and Memphis paying borderline All-stars 100+ million without blinking.

I hope the PA tells the owners to go fukc themselves, even if it costs us a year of Basketball. :cry:

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

LOL people. Have no fear.
The owners have too much invested. TV contracts, etc etc
There will be a lockout, but both sides will cave in sooner rather than later.
Owners will come off their demands....significantly.
They know very very well that a $45m hard cap would cut off their nose to spite their face.

[bdreason]

haven't you guys ever negotiated to buy a car?

you never give your "deal price" from your first bid. gonna be lots of back and forth.


And if the car dealer asked me to pay $100,000 for a Honda Accord, I'd laugh in his face and walk off the lot.

[boozehound]

Stern is playing around.

He knows if they keep a "Hard cap" there will be no NBA season to be played, which means that those teams who are losing money will be screwed big time with no product on the floor at all.
not really. if they are actually losing money, then it gives them a year of reprieve, as all the player salaries wont be paid during that stretch. I think the nba owners are pretty serious about curtailing the salary costs in the nba and are willing to let it drag into next season to get their demands (or close to it).

[boozehound]

EXACTLY!!!!!! The NBA would be destroyed quickly.

Not only would the Euro League teams offer huge tax free contracts and perks such as houses and cars but also Someone would try to start a rival league in the U.S and probably focus on only the big markets.....their version of contraction the NBA has looked at.......this would insure that the talent pool would not be watered down and no team would lose money.

The NBA office is not doing their homework :facepalm
see thomas, isiah for how a rival north american league works out.

[IGOTGAME]

Eh, it's just a starting point. This could end at like 55-60 million.

or there won't be a hard cap...

[boozehound]

people acting like this isnt realistic (obviously lower than where it will end up) due to current salaries arent paying attention. The owners want to cut back current contracts to lower levels (and % increases) and make them much less guaranteed money. This is serious. Now, sure it wont end up at 45 million, but there will be a hard cap in place (and not at 65 or whatever) before another nba game is played IMO.

[bdreason]

people acting like this isnt realistic (obviously lower than where it will end up) due to current salaries arent paying attention. The owners want to cut back current contracts to lower levels (and % increases) and make them much less guaranteed money. This is serious. Now, sure it wont end up at 45 million, but there will be a hard cap in place (and not at 65 or whatever) before another nba game is played IMO.



Sorry, but a 45 million hard cap is laughable at best. 95% of the teams in the league can't even comply with that number if they wanted.


And if the NBA Owners think they can reduce contracts already inked... they are out of their minds. If they actually push for something like that, there won't be an NBA game for years, because this litigation will end up in the Supreme Court.

[Kevin_Gamble]

not really. if they are actually losing money, then it gives them a year of reprieve, as all the player salaries wont be paid during that stretch. I think the nba owners are pretty serious about curtailing the salary costs in the nba and are willing to let it drag into next season to get their demands (or close to it).
I guess we will see if the owners are losing money. I'd love to see Jerry Buss or Sterling go a whole year without their NBA income.

[B]

see thomas, isiah for how a rival north american league works out.Don't pay attention to him, put him on ignore like everyone else has.

[boozehound]

[QUOTE]Hunter also alerts players to the league

[Clutch]

It was a great season,too bad we won't see another game for a long time.

[DKLaker]

[QUOTE=B

[B]

I guess we will see if the owners are losing money. I'd love to see Jerry Buss or Sterling go a whole year without their NBA income.Easily done for them. They won't have any outgoing cash flow, no players salaries, no insurance. Lakers have already been cutting staff.

Even with no games creating income thats not as big a problem considering the NBA takes nearly 50% of the sales from tickets and merchandise and other monies brought in. Yes they will miss the cash but they'll be more than fine. I'm sure the owners in most cases are far more ready for the financial burden of a lockout than a percentage of players are

[DKLaker]

see thomas, isiah for how a rival north american league works out.

If you honestly think players are going to take $8-9 million over $20-25 million then someone needs to wake you up from your :sleeping :sleeping :sleeping dream.

[Fiasco]

$45 million dollar Hard Cap? I suppose they want to start a legitimate Fantasy Draft with all the teams for next season as well?

[LJJ]

from the initial article. Pretty sure they are going to push hard to restructure current contracts (especially in terms of guaranteed money). You gotta remember, these contracts are not individual agreements, but part of a union. Look at the former GM workers who have had the pensions and health benefits guaranteed in their contracts changed drastically. It can happen.

Yeah because GM was/is bankrupt in which case different rules apply.

According to this: http://www.forbes.com/lists/2011/32/basketball-valuations-11_rank.html

Everything is not so bad. A quick calculation of these figures gives the total NBA an operating profit of 180 million. Obviously operating income doesn't include interest costs, but the debt of the NBA has to be significantly upwards of 1 billion for the NBA to lose money.

Do you really think the players are going to along with significant pay decreases and contracts less than 50% guaranteed when the NBA is actually turning out a profit still?

[trig]

they should start with the referees. We need a new set of referees that will call games as it is

regarding the salary, I agree with the hard cap, but it should be implemented slowly and it should be higher that euroleague salary. They should not punish the teams that has recently signed their players to long contracts

[Soundwave]

I think Miami sorta lucked out getting the big 3 when they did, because with this new CBA I think it's going to be very hard for teams to do that sort of thing again.

Obviously the player salaries are going to be scaled way down, but y'know guys were willing to take a $10-$15 million pay cut on a $100 mill contract ... sure.

But ask guys to take the same cut on a $60 million contract ... and they're not going to be willing to leave that much on the table.

[Kevin_Gamble]

[QUOTE=B

[DixieNourmous]

It's gonna be a long summer. :(

tru Dat

[Rowe]

I'd be all for the NBA taking the NHL rode. F*ck the "stars" in good markets, even watching the NBA finals this year was a joke. ESPN|Everything surrounding the NBA was focused on the story lines of LeBron|Heat like a sitcom rather than the actual great play in the finals.

:oldlol:

I know why you're mad.

Too bad your team caved in and gave us Melo.

[Talent]

Wouldn't this make small market teams more competitive?

[miller-time]

are you people taking the 45 mil thing seriously? obviously they aren't going to lead with the maximum they are willing to take. one side says 45, the other side says 80, they meet at 65 and call it a day. bargaining 101.

[Rowe]

This wont work.

Heres a little stuff I remember on the NHL lockout.

-The NHL was at an all time low before it went into a lockout. Ratings had plummeted which caused ESPN to announce they werent going to renew their TV deal. The loss of the TV deal was a massive blow for a sport that had poorly promoted its current stars in the first place, and they were still suffering from their failed expansion into the southern USA. This was the perfect storm for a lockout.

-NHL salaries were never as much as NBA salaries. The highest paid player in the NHL pre-lockout was pulling in $11 Million per year. In comparison, 38 players in the NBA made $11 Million or more last season. We will never see a NBA game played again before they take a paycut as drastic as 25% of their yearly salaries.

-Partially guaranteed contracts means that a player can demand to have their contract restructured every year if they want. Do you know what this means? This means we are bringing back contract holdouts to the NBA because Player A had a "career year" and wants his salary to be bumped up or hes not playing. Non-guaranteed contracts does not mean it will change NBA teams from making poor decisions in Free Agency and tying their money into the wrong players.


Seriously this whole idea of a lockout because teams are losing money is a joke. What is the point of establishing a hard cap when everyone except for Chicago, Cleveland, Minnesota, LA, & Sacramento were over the Soft Cap at $58 Million?

There wont be another basketball game if the owners think they can do this. If they are losing as much money on their team as they claim, they need to sell their team or actually invest in creating a reason for fans to buy tickets/merchandise.

[Rowe]

Wouldn't this make small market teams more competitive?
No. Its all about the personnel decisions a team makes which makes them competitive.

You look at the bottom of the NBA right now and every team made poor decisions in the Draft & Free Agency which made them losers.

Trying to "even the field" doesnt work in a league where 1/2 the front office's are incompetent.

[Samurai Swoosh]

:oldlol:

I know why you're mad.

Too bad your team caved in and gave us Melo.
This ...

:oldlol:

[Zackmorris]

U
The new hard cap can be acheived immediately, be it at $45MM or $52MM or whatever. Remember, every contract in the NHL was cut by 24% when the new CBA was signed in order to get under the cap. It was collectively bargained. Yes $3MM average salary is a large reduction but most will either make $9MM or $1MM.
Next year the salary cap will be $zero so even $45Million would be better than that.

I am looking forward to a hardcap in order to balance out the playing field.

Balance out the playing field? :roll: :roll:

The "playing field" was never balanced since the 1946

[Jasper]

45mil is a bargaining chip :

I think the teams want to be under the 60mil mark , because throughout the last 5-7 years there has been a steady increase.

My guess if a hard cap comes it won't be 10 years , but 5 year compromise at 55mil.

there has to be some wiggle room on both parts , but my guess some of the player contract lengths will be shortened.

Someone stated on this board MLE should be discarded ....

[Rowe]

45mil is a bargaining chip :

I think the teams want to be under the 60mil mark , because throughout the last 5-7 years there has been a steady increase.

My guess if a hard cap comes it won't be 10 years , but 5 year compromise at 55mil.

there has to be some wiggle room on both parts , but my guess some of the player contract lengths will be shortened.

Someone stated on this board MLE should be discarded ....

Not sure what the problem is with the MLE.

Only some teams actually use it, and those are the owners who are dedicated to winning by adding extra pieces.

[BonyFaceNDong]

The new hard cap can be acheived immediately, be it at $45MM or $52MM or whatever. Remember, every contract in the NHL was cut by 24% when the new CBA was signed in order to get under the cap. It was collectively bargained. Yes $3MM average salary is a large reduction but most will either make $9MM or $1MM.
Next year the salary cap will be $zero so even $45Million would be better than that.

I am looking forward to a hardcap in order to balance out the playing field.

Not really. There isn't a big Hocky market around the world. After 24% pay cut, NHL players still makes more than other places outside US.

Basketball is different. Players can make way more from other countries if the hard cap is applied. Why should they play in NBA any longer?

[R.I.P.]

The NBA

[iamgine]

I hope the hard cap happens. There'll be more equality across the league.

Also, they should count it after tax. So if a player is paid $9 million and tax is 10%, his official salary would be $10 million but only $9 million count towards the cap. That would equalize the playing field even more.

[hawkfan]

The owners are trying to get players to agree to the following:

1. Shortening contracts - 4 years for regular contracts, 3 years for MLEs. Which most fans would agree with. It's bad for the league to have guys like Michael Redd making max money and not playing at all. Guys have a right to get paid, but that is overkill. Same thing with MLEs. Jared Jeffries was getting MLE money and clearly didn't deserve it this year.

2. Reducing the amount of max level contracts. There should be a 25% reduction of the amount of max level deals - for contracts going forward. Some of these guys just don't deserve the money. Why is Jamison getting 15 million this year? That's not fully max, but real close.

These three things would fix about 90% of the problems.

[bagelred]

Wonderful. A hard salary cap will just create more boring parity. Every team will be 41 - 41. Great.

Of course, the league doesn't learn what works....superteams. The Miami Heat are the reason the interest in NBA is way up. Aren't they paying attention? Hard cap means no future super teams.

You can also kiss any advantage to big markets goodbye, yet another dumb move for the league.

Also, the NHL and NBA are in COMPLETELY different revenue structures. NBA revenue is booming and the NHL is lucky it hasn't folded. MUCH more sense to get a hard cap in NHL than NBA.

The biggest problem are the large guaranteed contracts that get no benefit to the team....Gilbert Arenas, Eddy Curry, Larry Hughes, Michael Redd, etc. Fix that problem and EVERYONE is happy, fans, owners, and yes, players too. If Eddy Curry is getting paid, that means some other deserving player isn't.

[EasyD]

If a hard cap will be the outcome, expect a lot of stars to be emigrating to Europe. There are a lot of super-rich soccer clubs which have discovered basketball as their secondary source of income. Many of those soccer clubs have team salaries way over 100 million per year and transfer fees over 100 million USD for a single superstar player are very common. Thus paying some additional millions extra for NBA stars is still a bargain for them.

[hawkfan]

Wonderful. A hard salary cap will just create more boring parity. Every team will be 41 - 41. Great.

Of course, the league doesn't learn what works....superteams. The Miami Heat are the reason the interest in NBA is way up. Aren't they paying attention? Hard cap means no future super teams.

You can also kiss any advantage to big markets goodbye, yet another dumb move for the league.

Also, the NHL and NBA are in COMPLETELY different revenue structures. NBA revenue is booming and the NHL is lucky it hasn't folded. MUCH more sense to get a hard cap in NHL than NBA.

The biggest problem are the large guaranteed contracts that get no benefit to the team....Gilbert Arenas, Eddy Curry, Larry Hughes, Michael Redd, etc. Fix that problem and EVERYONE is happy, fans, owners, and yes, players too. If Eddy Curry is getting paid, that means some other deserving player isn't.

New York is a perfect example of what is wrong with the current CBA. They had to waste 2 years and trade away a bunch of picks to get under the cap last summer. Bad for the city and bad for the league.

[DStebb716]

My idea:

Hard cap at 55 Million effective in three years.
Each team gets one amnesty clause that allows them to cut a player scott free off the books.
Give each team a $5 million dollars MLE that allows half of that contract to be paid by the league (unless team would be able to sign contract completely under cap). -If this isn't in use by a team it may be used as $2.5 million dollars in a trade.
Max contract at $11 million.
Max contract goes up to $13 million if player has been with team for 4+ years and the team offers it to them.

[amfirst]

If this happens than all the superstars would be playing in Europe.

[ballerz]

No way would a 45 million hard cap work

[bluechox2]

My idea:

Hard cap at 55 Million effective in three years.
Each team gets one amnesty clause that allows them to cut a player scott free off the books.
Give each team a $5 million dollars MLE that allows half of that contract to be paid by the league (unless team would be able to sign contract completely under cap). -If this isn't in use by a team it may be used as $2.5 million dollars in a trade.
Max contract at $11 million.
Max contract goes up to $13 million if player has been with team for 4+ years and the team offers it to them.

9 millions-11 million max contracts? that will never work
(all estimations)
at least 1 million goes to agents
then state taxes take out another million
income tax takes another million
insurance,
medical treatments
other bullshits


i dont know what the real figures are, but my point being, half of the salary never goes to the player
and the team cashes in on the rest of the money that used to go to players.

[B]

Yeah well you can't sell tickets when there aren't games being played. And NBA isn't making $2 billion a year from merchandise. Also, are you telling me the PA doesn't get a cut of the merchandising revenue? I don't know where you are getting your information, but remind me never to go to that source.

Also, NBA and MLB had to work their way out of negative publicity from the lockouts. Are NBA owners such pigheaded idiots that they will shoot themselves in the foot?
Talk about a post going over your head. I have no idea what you are talking about

All i was addressing is the players will be in financial problems before the owners will in the case of a lockout

And yes the players do get a cut of all money made by the NBA 57% of the BRI goes to players costs as per the current agreement which only goes to back up my point that if the players are getting 57%, their loss in a lockout is greater than the owners because the owners somewhat offset the lost income by not having to pay the players, no money in but hey no money out either. Where the players offset their lost income with?

[bigdog13]

And if the car dealer asked me to pay $100,000 for a Honda Accord, I'd laugh in his face and walk off the lot.

Yeah but your Honda Accord has not increased in price by 64% in 10 years and 460% since 1990. Annual inflation between 2000 and 2010 was 2.67%

[bigdog13]

Not really. There isn't a big Hocky market around the world. After 24% pay cut, NHL players still makes more than other places outside US.

Basketball is different. Players can make way more from other countries if the hard cap is applied. Why should they play in NBA any longer?


I doubt there would be a ton of 5 yr $12,000,000/yr deals around the world. Plus in some of those Russian Superleagues, they were offering very lucrative contracts to intice players "back home".

Taking a 20% reduction in order to get a deal done is still 80% more than what a player would be getting in a lockout. What other skills does 97.5% of the players have outside of basketball? and if they have skills it will not be paying in the 7 figures.

[bigdog13]

are you people taking the 45 mil thing seriously? obviously they aren't going to lead with the maximum they are willing to take. one side says 45, the other side says 80, they meet at 65 and call it a day. bargaining 101.


you are a genious. Valedictorian of your class?

[bigdog13]

9 millions-11 million max contracts? that will never work
(all estimations)
at least 1 million goes to agents
then state taxes take out another million
income tax takes another million
insurance,
medical treatments
other bullshits


i dont know what the real figures are, but my point being, half of the salary never goes to the player
and the team cashes in on the rest of the money that used to go to players.


Outside of the agent portion, don't you have all those expenses too? are you not getting by with less than $5,500,000 (1/2 the 11 million contracts). How come an $11,000,000 max worked in 2000? that was not too long ago dude.

[2LeTTeRS]

Someone made a thread earlier this week about how far off the final CBA was last time it expired. Stern and the owners wanted similar crazy things, but settled on what we have now.

That was me. Here's the thread >>>>> Major misconceptions regarding the labor dispute between Owners and NBA's Players (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=225585).





9 millions-11 million max contracts? that will never work
(all estimations)
at least 1 million goes to agents
then state taxes take out another million
income tax takes another million
insurance,
medical treatments
other bullshits


i dont know what the real figures are, but my point being, half of the salary never goes to the player
and the team cashes in on the rest of the money that used to go to players.

How much do you guys think agents make? They only get a max of 4.5% of a player's basketball income, and then about 10-20% of any income earned through endorsement deals. If a player is being paid $11 mil a year by his team, the agent is only owed a little less than $500k.

[C-Webb4]

My idea:

Hard cap at 55 Million effective in three years.
Each team gets one amnesty clause that allows them to cut a player scott free off the books.
Give each team a $5 million dollars MLE that allows half of that contract to be paid by the league (unless team would be able to sign contract completely under cap). -If this isn't in use by a team it may be used as $2.5 million dollars in a trade.
Max contract at $11 million.
Max contract goes up to $13 million if player has been with team for 4+ years and the team offers it to them.

:oldlol: Damn, if anything close to this goes through, Shaq will probably be sitting back laughing, realizing he made away with highway robbery by comparison. Sucks for the new age all-stars/superstars that they won't be able to take the NBA to the bank like dudes like Marbury and Steve Francis.

[InspiredLebowski]

Just checked, Kings and TWolves are under 45 for next season... Until they sign some more players. Bobcats are at like 49.Indy's at 35.5.

Anyway, people need to stop acting like this'd happen next season. It'd be a multi-year process with current deals grandfathered in.

[sodapop]

The new hard cap can be acheived immediately, be it at $45MM or $52MM or whatever. Remember, every contract in the NHL was cut by 24% when the new CBA was signed in order to get under the cap. It was collectively bargained. Yes $3MM average salary is a large reduction but most will either make $9MM or $1MM.
Next year the salary cap will be $zero so even $45Million would be better than that.

I am looking forward to a hardcap in order to balance out the playing field.

I agree, I'm hoping for a hard cap also. I think it will improve the NBA and make it more interesting. The last lockout, I supported the players. This time around, I highly support the league and the franchise owners. It doesn't make any sense if a team continue to pay a star level player max while the stadium is half packed. Plus, the owners have other employees on the payroll - the janitor staff, the concession stand workers, V.I.P. staff, security, ticket marketers and so on and so on... Honestly, I think the NBA are too soft on the players. If it was up to me (my opinion), I would make up a ring rule: If you win a championship with a franchise, you will receive a pay raise. Just like any job, you earn the pay. Back to the subject, I wouldn't mind a $45 million hard cap. However, I don't think the players under $9 million should receive a pay cut.

[FKAri]

Well it was a great sport while it lasted.

I'm sure one day I'll sit back and vaguely remember the adventures of Michael Gordan and Scottie Pinpin. The rivalry between Magical Johnson and Lenny Bird.

[Pinkhearts]

Time to screw the cap and go free market. Land of the free.

Remove the cap and lower luxury tax threshold to 50 million. This way the Lakers will be paying 50 million to the league giving every other team money. So you wanna stack your team and win championships every year? You'll paying me to to win your championship as well.