Valanciunas Mix

[bluerap]

Not sure if it's been posted here but something to get excited about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzNugzv7_Uo

[Skywalker]

he seems to have long arms and be post oriented

also doesn't look/act like a fairy like bargnani

[kidcoolangot]

Man, if he develops that post game, he is going to be a beaasst. Have not seen any young big man who has a post game, except for brook lopez and dwight howard ofcourse. But, we'll see what happens. He can either be a flop or a great asset to the raps

[SESSEL15]

Things I noticed/liked:

-seems to be extremely agile for a big man
-seems to be very quick off his feet
-seems to run well in transition

[Reef]

He's got a 7-6 wingspan too. If Val comes over this year, that's great, but if there's a lockout, he'll have the advantage of playing and improving while everyone else trains in informal workouts. Plus, we should be able to get a top 5 pick again next year in a very deep draft full of point guards and small forwards (exactly what we need).

The only rough part will be watching pretty much the same team +/- a few scrubs for an entire season.

[Prodigy]

Looks good, I remember the highlight of Bargnani in Italy consisted of him mainly shooting jumpers.

[Maniak]

Euro, lol. I love the Raptors.

Lockout would benefit Val...

Meh, I'm not putting my hope in the guy tho.

[Carrib]

things i noticed about him.... he has good hands, good foot work.
but i also noticed he was playing against very not talented players. dunking over smaller guys and what not. hopefully this pans out for the raps though

[Jasi]

Do you guys think that the Valanciunas pick implies that the Raptors are thinking about trading Bargs?

[Himan12]

^ Well with BC's end of season comments, it sounds like he has considered that Bargs does not meet with what this team expects from him (took him a while to figure that out though :oldlol: ). So he probably is on the market.

[baller03]

the things i noticed on this clip + extras on youtube...

pros
low post player
nice hands
good pick n roll
decent defender (block shots, changing shots)
runs the floor

cons
barely seen him use his left hand
no jump shots taken ?! can this guy shoot the ball
seems like he lacks "the lift" to go over some of the bigs in the NBA
not strong enough (as yet)

he could balance well with bargs but i am not sold on this kid as yet...IMO

[Jasi]

^ Well with BC's end of season comments, it sounds like he has considered that Bargs does not meet with what this team expects from him (took him a while to figure that out though :oldlol: ). So he probably is on the market.

Of course... Try to build around Nowitzki as a C, and then come back.
:facepalm @ BC

Imo you could very well build around Bargs, as long as you realise that he needs to play the 4, and to be paired witha defensive C.


No I'm not implying that Bargs = Nowitzki but they do have similar characteristics

[Qwyjibo]

seems like he lacks "the lift" to go over some of the bigs in the NBA
not strong enough (as yet)
Those are things that worry me right now. The strength issue shouldn't be a problem long-term since he's only 19 as long he's committed to hard work. The other one is a bit confusing. For whatever reason, you don't see Val getting off the ground much. Unless he has some great footwork, this might affect his offensive potential.


Of course... Try to build around Nowitzki as a C, and then come back.
And in the Raptors' case it's a very poor rman's Nowitzki. Hell, Bargnani is basically a poor man's Bosh.

[Jasi]

Those are things that worry me right now. The strength issue shouldn't be a problem long-term since he's only 19 as long he's committed to hard work. The other one is a bit confusing. For whatever reason, you don't see Val getting off the ground much. Unless he has some great footwork, this might affect his offensive potential.


And in the Raptors' case it's a very poor rman's Nowitzki. Hell, Bargnani is basically a poor man's Bosh.

Naaah, Bosh doesn't shoot 3s like Bargs.

Definitely a poor man's Dirk.

[DJMason]

Naaah, Bosh doesn't shoot 3s like Bargs.

Definitely a poor man's Dirk.

More like a homeless man's Dirk. The two shouldn't even be in the same league.

I just like that at least if Val busts it'll be as a man trying to legitimately succeed in the post. If he bulks up I see at least Chandler-like potential and that aint half bad.

As far as Val's elevation, there are a couple times in the video he seems to have pretty good hops on some running dunks/put backs, and then others that he doesn't. He's scouted to be a legit athelete so I wonder if it's just that he's so much taller than the people he's playing against who aren't crazy atheletes either so he just doesn't have to jump that high?

[Doko]

Very pleased with the pick, but I don't think he'll be available before the 2012/13 season.
And no, that doesn't mean we're trading Bargs, they don't play alike, not at all.

[Jasi]

Very pleased with the pick, but I don't think he'll be available before the 2012/13 season.
And no, that doesn't mean we're trading Bargs, they don't play alike, not at all.

Not only that, but they could also complement each other very well becaus Jonas seems to be very aggressive defensively and in rebounds.

[Doko]

Not only that, but they could also complement each other very well becaus Jonas seems to be very aggressive defensively and in rebounds.

Vaglielo a spiegare XD

Probably the one that should be traded is Amir, we need minutes to develop Jonas and Ed Davis.

[Jasi]

Vaglielo a spiegare XD

:D eheh

[Qwyjibo]

Naaah, Bosh doesn't shoot 3s like Bargs.

Definitely a poor man's Dirk.
All 3 are still scoring-oriented PFs who don't give you much on defense so the comparison is valid. They're just on different tiers where Dirk in his prime was a superstar (still is I guess), Bosh is a player who will legitmately make some All-Star teams while Bargnani overall is average to slightly above-average.

Unless Valanciunas turns into a defensive monster similar to Dwight Howard (yea right) then I still think Ed Davis (assuming he doesn't bust completely) is the PF that you should be looking to pair him up with. Just because you put a "PF" beside Bargnani's name doesn't absolve him of playing interior D and rebounding. Maybe if he was far more efficient as an offensive player it would be easier to swallow but he hasn't been.

[SESSEL15]

If Davis isn't the starting PF getting starter minutes come november, I'm going to snap.

Just saying..

[Maniak]

Yeah whatever happened to Ed Davis? I didn't hear much from him at all last season.

[missionman]

I like that despite his skinny frame, he's pretty aggressive and physical - in stark contrast to Bargnani.

Imagine this guy could actually jump more than two inches!

Still, this mix makes me optimistic about the pick.

All we need now is
*One more year of tanking, one more high level pick
*Val joins the team
*Demar learns to shoot a three to complement his mid-range/driving game
*amir learns how not to foul out
*ed davis put on some bulk
*other young guys (Bayless, Johnson) develop even incrementally
*we trade one or both of Bargnani and Calderon
*OR Bargnani learns to rebound and help D AND Calderon learns to play D or takes advantage of new D-schemes like a zone that make up for his lack of footspeed...
*personnel tweaking

hey, if even 50% of the above happens (which I believe will be true0, I'm excited for the 2012/2013 season

[hassano]

I'd love to see him bulk up and pair with Ed Davis, now that would be a solid front court

edit: just found out he'll wear number 17 when he plays, the age his signed his first *pro contract

[Himan12]

Not only that, but they could also complement each other very well becaus Jonas seems to be very aggressive defensively and in rebounds.

Bargnani cant carry a team offensively if he could he would be a hell of alot more popular with the organization/fans. But he simply cant, anyway as for JV being a defensive monster I think thats a little too much too expect from him. ED has the potential to anchor our D, while JV will be a monster on the boards, play solid man D and also have solid low post offense (potential wise).

My point here is ED-Val >>>>>>>> Bargs-Val.

[FCardelle]

Unless Valanciunas turns into a defensive monster similar to Dwight Howard (yea right) then I still think Ed Davis (assuming he doesn't bust completely) is the PF that you should be looking to pair him up with. Just because you put a "PF" beside Bargnani's name doesn't absolve him of playing interior D and rebounding. Maybe if he was far more efficient as an offensive player it would be easier to swallow but he hasn't been.
You always say that Bargnani is a 6th man in a good team. If it were really true... why not in the Raptors, a couple years in the future?

[Prodigy]

You always say that Bargnani is a 6th man in a good team. If it were really true... why not in the Raptors, a couple years in the future?

Cause people don't give bench players 10 million dollars. Especially not with the new CBA.

If he was making 6 Million (like Barbosa) and playing 25 minutes a game I'd be okay with him.

[Himan12]

Remember those end of season comments by some of his teammates, BC and Traino?? What about his alleged comments about wanting to leave? Look what happened to Bargs was not fair, he was asked to do things that he simply can not do (rebounding and defending). He, along with the raptors franchise deserve clean slates and they should part ways imo.

[FCardelle]

Cause people don't give bench players 10 million dollars. Especially not with the new CBA.

If he was making 6 Million (like Barbosa) and playing 25 minutes a game I'd be okay with him.
But he will earn 10M regardless of where he plays. (which is a fair contract IMO)

Davis/Bargnani/Valenciunas can be a good interior rotation. Trade Amir and there will be 32 mpg for each one.

[Qwyjibo]

Like the other guy said, it's the money. I'd rather pay Amir $5 million per year for ~25-28 minutes to be the first big man off the bench than Bargnani $10 million.

You generally want to give the most money to your most productive players who will play the most minutes. Since I see Bargnani as a 6th man and not worthy of starter minutes (if you want to be a good team) then IMO it's not a good allocation of resources. This kind of thinking will become even more important if a hard salary cap comes in.

[bluerap]

All 3 are still scoring-oriented PFs who don't give you much on defense so the comparison is valid. They're just on different tiers where Dirk in his prime was a superstar (still is I guess), Bosh is a player who will legitmately make some All-Star teams while Bargnani overall is average to slightly above-average.

Unless Valanciunas turns into a defensive monster similar to Dwight Howard (yea right) then I still think Ed Davis (assuming he doesn't bust completely) is the PF that you should be looking to pair him up with. Just because you put a "PF" beside Bargnani's name doesn't absolve him of playing interior D and rebounding. Maybe if he was far more efficient as an offensive player it would be easier to swallow but he hasn't been.

Ideally none of these players will be paired in the front court long term.
The reality is you need at least one all-star calibre front court player.

All of these guys including Bargs and val would make nice complements to that player.

Since it is easier to find an all-star pf (I'm thinking a 20 and 10 guy) than c I like the idea of developing val.


I like ed and amir too, but I wouldn't hesitate to trade one or both if we could get a legit piece at another position where we are not stacked.

[Nastradamus]

i don't think you mess with the frontcourt rotation you have right now. They all compliment each other so well. Bargs as a pure scorer covered on defense with Valanciunas behind him. Val stays around the rim on offense and compliments Bargs there too. Davis comes off the bench as a contrast to Bargs at the 4 and occasionally next to Bargs. His combo of athleticim,rebounding and skill works well next to either player. You also have Alabi and Amir if you want more size and defense. They should keep this group together as long as possible. Its championship caliber as these players mature. Potential to be LAL quality

[Skywalker]

we've seen what happens when you try to compliment bargnani

there's not a player outside of Dwight Howard who would do what needs to be done DEFENSIVELY and REBOUNDING wise to make up for how horrid bargnani is in those 2 areas

[Reef]

http://twitter.com/#!/ekoreen


A source with knowledge of the negotiations confirms #Raptors reach buyout agreement with Lietuvos for Valanciunas. He joins TO in 12-13.

Not bad.

[BRabbiT]

Not sure if it's been posted here but something to get excited about.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EzNugzv7_Uo




it's just a highlight reel, but damn, pretty encouraging motor.

thanks.






http://twitter.com/#!/ekoreen



Not bad.



that's good news. nice.

[A.M.G.]

You've gotta love Bryan Colangelo.

He picks a European first overall at the beginning of his tenure here; get's burned hard by that player, who turns out to be a *****-ass waste of talent; re-signs that same worthless European player for big money; get's re-signed as GM despite utter lack of success (thank you MLSE for not giving a ****!); and what is the first ****ing thing he does?

He drafts another big dopey European "center" who will help ensure the Raptors' continued status as the softest, whitest team in the NBA since they desegregated the bitch!?! ****.

Actually, there is a rational part of me that realizes that this was a weak draft, that Valanciunas arguably has the most upside of any prospect in it, and that his staying in Europe in a season that will be raped by the lockout anyway will allow the Raptors to tank again and get Sullinger/Barnes/Gilchrist. Part of me realizes that Kemba is a midget and Knight lacks elite athleticism, and that neither are true point guards, and that the rest of the prospects in the draft were pretty uniformly mediocre.

And yet I can't help but laugh at Colangelo's obsession with Europeans, and I also can't help but think that Colangelo should have made a safe pick if he wants a better chance of keeping his job (if Valanciunas isn't a rookie of the year candidate when he does arrive, or if Knight or Kemba ARE rookie of the year candidates next year, I want Colangelo tarred, feathered, and tied onto the next train out of town).

[Doko]

You've gotta love Bryan Colangelo.

He picks a European first overall at the beginning of his tenure here; get's burned hard by that player, who turns out to be a *****-ass waste of talent; re-signs that same worthless European player for big money; get's re-signed as GM despite utter lack of success (thank you MLSE for not giving a ****!); and what is the first ****ing thing he does?

He drafts another big dopey European "center" who will help ensure the Raptors' continued status as the softest, whitest team in the NBA since they desegregated the bitch!?! ****.

Actually, there is a rational part of me that realizes that this was a weak draft, that Valanciunas arguably has the most upside of any prospect in it, and that his staying in Europe in a season that will be raped by the lockout anyway will allow the Raptors to tank again and get Sullinger/Barnes/Gilchrist. Part of me realizes that Kemba is a midget and Knight lacks elite athleticism, and that neither are true point guards, and that the rest of the prospects in the draft were pretty uniformly mediocre.

And yet I can't help but laugh at Colangelo's obsession with Europeans, and I also can't help but think that Colangelo should have made a safe pick if he wants a better chance of keeping his job (if Valanciunas isn't a rookie of the year candidate when he does arrive, or if Knight or Kemba ARE rookie of the year candidates next year, I want Colangelo tarred, feathered, and tied onto the next train out of town).

Now, please, I want all the people who said that the anti-euro thing is all in our minds to adress this post.

[Chamberlain]

:oldlol: It's apparent in some posters. How often did AMG post here during the season? Once a month? You're right though, that was over the top and a bit of an overreaction too.

I feel like most of the hate towards this pick is due to not knowing anything about Valanciunas. He seems to be pretty much what this team needs in the future, but people are impatient I guess.

[bluerap]

Now, please, I want all the people who said that the anti-euro thing is all in our minds to adress this post.

agree that his was a pretty belligerent post, but most of the people you accuse of anti-euro actually like this pick. We don't care that he is a euro, we are excited by the fact that he is a more traditional big with rebounding and defensive capability.

[Reef]

In the Under 19 FIBA tournament today, Val dropped 23 points (6/11 FG, 11/15 FT) and 11 rebounds on the US team.

[hassano]

solid numbers, i just wanna see some highlights and who he was playing against

[RaininThrees]

Review of his game today:

[QUOTE]Yes, it was just an exhibition game. And yes, Team USA

[Kungfro]

I really want to see this guy play. It's gonna be a long ass year.

[bballnoob]

I think the mid range shot could be a weapon for Valanciunas (FT shooting usually translates to overall shooting ability fairly well) but I'm glad his inclination is to play in the paint first.

I do think fouls will be a pretty big problem with him (not out of the ordinary) his first few years in the league though. His foul rate was high overseas and the NBA is a lot more strict in that regard.

[Prodigy]

I really want to see this guy play. It's gonna be a long ass year.

Watch the FIBA games then. He's playing in both the U19 tourney right now and in the FIBA Eurobasketball tournament with the national team.

[Beebo]

Looks like a more athletic and aggressive Biedrins.

[Qwyjibo]

Looks like a more athletic and aggressive Biedrins.
I would love for him to become like Biedrins because Biedrins' major flaw (FT shooting) is not an issue at all for Val. You can give him the ball on offense and not be afraid of him going to the line.

[Toni]

I think the mid range shot could be a weapon for Valanciunas (FT shooting usually translates to overall shooting ability fairly well) but I'm glad his inclination is to play in the paint first.

I do think fouls will be a pretty big problem with him (not out of the ordinary) his first few years in the league though. His foul rate was high overseas and the NBA is a lot more strict in that regard.
I see him as a taller Amir Johnson with a better shot. Which is a pretty good return for our pick IMO.

I compare him to Amir because of excessive fouling, decent defense/rebounding and hustle.

[Reef]

I see him as a taller Amir Johnson with a better shot. Which is a pretty good return for our pick IMO.

I compare him to Amir because of excessive fouling, decent defense/rebounding and hustle.

That's exactly who I see him as too..a 7 foot Euro version of Amir. Like Amir, he's a solid weakside defender, very good pick and roll player, good FT shooter, solid rebounder, but he needs to get stronger. The Ilgauskas comparison that Casey made was terrible IMO. Ilgauskas was never as fluid or as mobile as Val.

[Toni]

Jonas Valanciunas was the best player on the floor as Lithuania humiliated the United States 108-75 in a tuneup for the FIBA under-19 championship, which gets underway on Thursday in Latvia.

The fifth overall selection by the Raptors imposed his will on the smaller Americans, compiling a game-high 23 points and 11 rebounds, along with two blocks and a steal.

Valanciunas is rail-thin and must pack on 15-25 pounds before he can compete effectively in the NBA, but against those his own age, he has consistently dominated.

Previously, Valanciunas was named MVP of FIBA’s under-18 and under-16 tournaments.
http://www.torontosun.com/2011/06/28/raptors-draft-pick-sharp-against-us

[Beebo]

I would love for him to become like Biedrins because Biedrins' major flaw (FT shooting) is not an issue at all for Val. You can give him the ball on offense and not be afraid of him going to the line.

Lets hope he isn't injury prone like Biedrins

I wasn't really excited about the pick at first but now I can't wait to see this kid play

[Reef]

Against Croatia today, Val dropped 19 pts (7-17 FG, 5-6 FT), 13 rebs, 5 blks!

[Toni]

Against Croatia today, Val dropped 23 pts (7-17 FG, 5-6 FT), 13 rebs, 5 blks!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=puvJDYCeq90 :pimp:

[Prodigy]

Against Croatia today, Val dropped 23 pts (7-17 FG, 5-6 FT), 13 rebs, 5 blks!

It was actually 19 points. And Lithuania lost :(

[Qwyjibo]

It was actually 19 points. And Lithuania lost :(
Psh Lithuania, who cares about them? Valanciunas is the only important part of that team for me right now :oldlol:

[Reef]

It was actually 19 points. And Lithuania lost :(

Yup, my bad.

[Reef]

Against South Korea today, Val had 25 pts (11-11 FG! 3-3 FT), 17 rebs, 2 blks in 19 mins!!

[bluerap]

:bowdown:

then again, south korea :rolleyes:

[bluerap]

kid really looks like the real deal.

today against serbia he had 18 pts, 13 reb and 3 blocks.

two days ago against canada 15pts, 9 reb and 4 blocks in 19 mins!:bowdown:

[bokes15]

Just for clarification, if there is an NBA season next year, he will definitely be playing for us or will he still be in Europe?

[Tool]

Just for clarification, if there is an NBA season next year, he will definitely be playing for us or will he still be in Europe?

He's joining the team for the 2012-13 season regardless of what happens this year (lockout/short season whatever it may be)

[Sekman]

can he not be a tim duncan one day??? he's got some quickness (in terms of turn around, body movements, ie: not speed)

[Toni]

kid really looks like the real deal.

today against serbia he had 18 pts, 13 reb and 3 blocks.

two days ago against canada 15pts, 9 reb and 4 blocks in 19 mins!:bowdown:

Only 2 fouls in 34 minutes against Serbia too :applause:

[Reef]

Against the US today, he had 30 pts, 15 rebs, 4 blks!! He's averaging 21.4 pts, 13.4 rebs, 3.6 blks in 28.1 mins!!

[Kungfro]

Stop hyping me up guys, I want to keep my expectations low so I can be pleasantly surprised when he starts playing for the Raps.

[Toni]

Against the US today, he had 30 pts, 15 rebs, 4 blks!! He's averaging 21.4 pts, 13.4 rebs, 3.6 blks in 28.1 mins!!

Colangelo doesn't know what the **** he's doing :facepalm

[Reef]

Colangelo doesn't know what the **** he's doing :facepalm

He's in love with Euros. He drafted another Bargnani clone. :lol

[Burgz]

He's in love with Euros. He drafted another Bargnani clone. :lol

lol he's not a clone but in the spirit of BC bashing i'll agree :cheers:

[Reef]

lol he's not a clone but in the spirit of BC bashing i'll agree :cheers:

I was joking like Toni was. So far Val is the anti-Bargs! :rockon:

[Burgz]

I was joking like Toni was. So far Val is the anti-Bargs! :rockon:

i kind of agree with Toni

so much so that i think BC doesn't know what he's doing to the point where he makes good decisions hahaha

[bluerap]

it's hard to fault bc for his draft picks.
even if you think bargs wasn't the best option he was still easily worthy of a top 3 in that weak draft, so it wasn't that far of a stretch.
demar and davis were very solid picks.
val looks like he could become a very solid #5.

The roy hibbert trade definitely didn't work out, but still would have been a good pick at 17.

the other year - 2007, the pick was traded back in 2002 by glen grunwald for yogi stewart.


now if we could only keep him away from free agency!

[FCardelle]

Draft is a scouts' work. You see how good a GM is in the trades, and BC is awful.

[Nastradamus]

He's in love with Euros. He drafted another Bargnani clone. :lol

I hope people don't really think this. JV plays at the rim, always. Great finisher, great defender. Not a great outside shooter, not soft, not Bargs.

[DJMason]

Draft is a scouts' work. You see how good a GM is in the trades, and BC is awful.

Trades and signings, and on that you have 100% agreement from me :cheers:

I kinda hope they lock next year out. JV gets more experience than everyone not going to Europe (and hopefully with our guidance gets bigger) and hopefully it results in a hard cap so that BC can stop overpaying players with the exemptions that he treats like free money and teams like the lakers can't just pay the salary taxes to stay on top.

I don't enjoy my backup teams enough, and find them too difficult to watch, for another year of Raptor basketbally without the new blood joining the team to be a propisition I have interest in.

[raptorfan_dr07]

Prior to the draft, I found Valanciunas to be intriguing, and I'm pleased that he was the pick(as opposed to other names I heard being thrown around: Biyombo, Leonard, Vesely :facepalm). He does have nice potential and can end up being one of the better players in this draft. I think a couple of others here have already said that a Val/Davis front court could end up being pretty solid a few years down the road.

[BRabbiT]

I was joking like Toni was. So far Val is the anti-Bargs! :rockon:





best way to decide on a prospect.

[bluerap]

I can see this kid turning into the next pau gasol.

[bballnoob]

I can see this kid turning into the next pau gasol.

Gasol had an unreal skill level coming into the league and despite not being a household name until reaching the Lakers, he was an immediate producer (ROY IIRC) coming into the league.

Hopefully Jonas can continue to stay on the floor when he faces some better competition this upcoming season. Not much to take from him beating up a bunch of kids when he normally would play against older players anyway.

[bluerap]

Gasol had an unreal skill level coming into the league and despite not being a household name until reaching the Lakers, he was an immediate producer (ROY IIRC) coming into the league.

Hopefully Jonas can continue to stay on the floor when he faces some better competition this upcoming season. Not much to take from him beating up a bunch of kids when he normally would play against older players anyway.

Gasol was also 21 years old when he was drafted.
Imagine if Val had the next 2 years to develop BEFORE being drafted.

[FCardelle]

The season before being drafted, Gasol was already one of the best players in Europe, playing at the highest level. On the other hand, Valanciunas is playing an U-19 championship. There is no reason to think that Valanciunas will improve so much in two years. I think that he will be a solid NBA player, though.
Bargnani is still the most talented player in the roster and Valanciunas can be a good compliment at C, while Ed Davis can become an above average 6th man. That's a soild rotation.