Derrick Rose or Deron Williams

[Da Heroic One]

Who do you guys think is the better player and who would you rather build around?

[EricGordon23]

I would take a healthy D-will for both.

[ballerz]

Deron

[LosBulls]

Gimme Rose.

[brandonislegend]

dwill

[Rnbizzle]

Rose. This kid is 22 and leads his team to the ECF?

[talkingconch]

Williams

[The-Legend-24]

A healthy D-Will, he actually facilitates for his team unlike Rose.

[NBA2k-Monster23]

Who do you guys think is the better player and who would you rather build around?


Deron Williams more of an complete PG right now then Derrick Rose. But Rose is the truth though.

[thomaspynchon]

Deron Williams is better

[thomaspynchon]

Also, I still cannot believe Rose won MVP. he could be the worst MVP in sports history.

[knicksman]

LOL. no team has won with a score first pg. at least a pass first pg has won in the 80s

[roffie]

d-will.. easily. i'm pretty sure most of the rose fan's don't actually watch him play, only just his highlights.

[LosBulls]

d-will.. easily. i'm pretty sure most of the rose fan's don't actually watch him play, only just his highlights.
I watched him dismantle D-Will last season and thats all I need to see.

[OmniStrife]

Healthy CP3

[Bigsmoke]

LOL. no team has won with a score first pg. at least a pass first pg has won in the 80s


this moron :oldlol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9aF6RJCfqf4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G4Tl7wOrp9A

to answer the question. Rose > Deron

[brownmamba00]

Deron=best PG in the game

so imma go with Deron

[Bigsmoke]

Deron=best PG in the game


a year ago? yes.

But let me keep you updated

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g63/Tameisha1/Derrick%20Rose/MVPAward.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmWVhsLMwHk

vs Healthy D-Wil
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201102090UTA.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bJnSAIoBf4

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/brebabii_2008/Derrick.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbjhPNIk4uo

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt353/crazysteph18/derrick_rose.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS0Juf5gLP0

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

LOL. no team has won with a score first pg. at least a pass first pg has won in the 80s
http://cdn.lightgalleries.net/4bd5ebf66a9d1/images/92095066-01-2.jpg
http://cache2.allpostersimages.com/p/LRG/10/1026/OJPW000Z/posters/chauncey-billups-2004-nba-championship-mvp-trophies-photofile.jpg

[brownmamba00]

a year ago? yes.

But let me keep you updated

http://i53.photobucket.com/albums/g63/Tameisha1/Derrick%20Rose/MVPAward.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kmWVhsLMwHk

vs Healthy D-Wil
http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/201102090UTA.html
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5bJnSAIoBf4

http://i250.photobucket.com/albums/gg276/brebabii_2008/Derrick.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XbjhPNIk4uo

http://i627.photobucket.com/albums/tt353/crazysteph18/derrick_rose.jpg
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RS0Juf5gLP0

Yeah I can relate. Anyway:

1.Rose/D-Will
2.Rose/D-Will
3.CFlop3

[asdf1990]

Rose. This kid is 22 and leads his team to the ECF?

Ppl say this like it was an incredible feat.. They faced the pacers (worse team in the playoffs) and the hawks( third worse team in the playoffs).

[Harison]

Healthy CP3 > Deron > Rose >= Westbrook

[alenleomessi]

1. CP3
2. D-Will
3. Nash


'Scoring a basket makes one person happy, while getting an assist makes two people happy.' - Magic

Rose is selfish chucker

[Clutch]

1. CP3
2. D-Will
3. Nash


'Scoring a basket makes one person happy, while getting an assist makes two people happy.' - Magic

Rose is selfish chucker
CP3 first ? Healthy CP3 from 2008 - YES

Often injured CP3 from 10-11 - NO

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

1. CP3
2. D-Will
3. Nash


'Scoring a basket makes one person happy, while getting an assist makes two people happy.' - Magic

Rose is selfish chucker

Rubio > Rose/Westbrook?

[hawksdogsbraves]

I think Williams is better and I'd build around him.

[alenleomessi]

Rubio > Rose/Westbrook?
no at least not yet

and i dont know why are the bulls looking for a SG when they have one

[Go Getter]

d-will.. easily. i'm pretty sure most of the rose fan's don't actually watch him play, only just his highlights.
I'm from Chicago but I'm stationed in Utah so I know both players pretty well and at this point I'd pick Rose.

[wang4three]

Rose. This kid is 22 and leads his team to the ECF?

Deron took his team to the WCF when he was 22.

[Bigsmoke]

I'm from Chicago but I'm stationed in Utah so I know both players pretty well and at this point I'd pick Rose.

this right here.

even before the wrist injury Rose was better.


'Scoring a basket makes one person happy, while getting an assist makes two people happy.' - Magic

Rose is selfish chucker

lol but yet Rose already accomplished more in just 3 seasons!

D-Rose
ROY
Most Points in rookie playoffs debut
MVP
All NBA first Team
ECFs
2X All Star and starting in One
top 10 in both PPG and APG

Deron Williams
2X All Star
WCFs
0x All NBA First Team

[Go Getter]

1. CP3
2. D-Will
3. Nash


'Scoring a basket makes one person happy, while getting an assist makes two people happy.' - Magic

Rose is selfish chucker
Lmao.

Passing to a fumble fingered teammate for a turnover when you can easily score makes a whole fan base sad

[bizil]

Let me first say both guys are studs. D-Rose is awesome and a freakish athlete. The thing is that he's more of a SG who can also run the point. Kinda like how AI used to be. AI had PG handle and was a very good passer. But he wasn't a pass first type PG. This is how Rose is. Even though I feel he has to take on more of a scoring role for the Bulls to win. I just feel the best PG's of all time see the floor and game a certain way.

His size at 6'2 or 6'3 is normally the size of a PG or combo guard. If Rose was 6'5 or 6'6 he would be a SG flat out. If D-WIll was 6'5 or 6'6 he would still be a PG who could play SG or even SF. Cause D-Will sees the game like a PG. But D Will can also go off and assume the role of a scoring guard who can be a Batman. Magic, Big O, Isiah, Tiny, Payton, Frazier, KJ, and Tim Hardaway had this going for them as well. That's why I would take D-Will over Rose. But D-Rose is only 22 and is gonna get better. I feel a PG must drop the dimes and think a certain way. But in the combo guard sense I would take D Rose though. I think guys like Rose, AI, Terry, Monta Ellis, World B. Free, etc. belong in a combo guard category. Or small two guard category. All of them range from very good to great HOF type of players.

[atljonesbro]

A Pg who can potentially be a 25/6 guy or a PG who can be a 22/10 guy...... Yeah Deron

[blablabla]

A Pg who can potentially be a 25/6 guy or a PG who can be a 22/10 guy...... Yeah Deron
how can rose be a potential 25/6 player if he averaged 25/8 this season and and rose isn't even in his prime yet :facepalm

[Bigsmoke]

how can rose be a potential 25/6 player if he averaged 25/8 this season and and rose isn't even in his prime yet :facepalm

lol theres a reason why I ignored that post/poster

[atljonesbro]

how can rose be a potential 25/6 player if he averaged 25/8 this season and and rose isn't even in his prime yet :facepalm
He's not that good of a passer. He won't have 8 assists a game every year. 6 is more realistic.

[Gundress]

My n!gga Deron Williams hands down

[guy]

Why the hell are people saying "HEALTHY" Deron Williams? If you are talking about building around a player, HEALTH comes into play. Its stupid to ignore that.

And for all the people that are saying a score first PG has never led a team to a title as the best player, well there hasn't been many PGs in general that have led a team to a title in the first place. There's Bob Cousy, Magic Johnson, Isiah Thomas, and Chauncey Billups. Bob Cousy was so long ago that using that as an example is pointless. Magic Johnson was a 6'9 freak of nature so using him as an example is pointless. Isiah Thomas was a pass first PG but was more part of an ensemble cast and took a huge step back in his role when Detroit won championships. Chauncey Billups was part of an ensemble cast. There's really no situation at all from the past that is comparable to Rose or Deron winning a title as the lead man. But at the same time, there's not that many players in general that have led a team to a title as the best player, so to say a score-first PG has never led a team to a title or only few PGs have led a team to a title is irrelevant. The league has only been around for about 60 years and the modern era has only been around the past 30 years. In each decade except for the 70s, its usually been dominated by 1-3 players.

Anyway, I'd go with Rose. He's much more of a leader then Deron who has yet to really standout as anything special yet. He's had pretty good teams in Utah, but they were never a threat to anyone. On the other hand, in Rose's third season he's led an injury-riddled team with a ton of new faces and 1st year head coach to the best record in the league and the ECF. I don't understand at all how everyone here is saying Deron Williams.

[Soothing Layup]

If my team needs a facilitator and a pass first pg: Deron

If it needs more scoring and some good highlight passes: Rose

[bizil]

If my team needs a facilitator and a pass first pg: Deron

If it needs more scoring and some good highlight passes: Rose

Exactly! Nobody is knocking Rose by saying he's a scoring PG. I don't think Rose means to be selfish. It's just that the number one job of a PG is to drop dimes and get his teammates going. Rose isn't on the level of D-Will, CP3, Rondo, or Nash. But Rose is great scorer and that's very important as well. He's a Batman who can carry a team scoring wise better than any PG today. But D-Will can also be a Batman scorer when needed as well. But he's a PG who thinks droppin dimes first. For my PG I would want a D-Will over a Rose. But for a team like the Bulls, Rose is probably the better fit for that team.

D Rose is a great ball handler and a very good passer and can run point. But he's not the floor general that D-Will is. If I need a combo guard or scoring PG I would take D Rose though.

[brownmamba00]

Rose spanked Deron Williams two time this season. Kept him in check, too. I'm going with Poohdini.
He was playing through injury tho

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Chris Paul

[kaiiu]

DWILL and it aint close for me

[wang4three]

Rose spanked Deron Williams two time this season. Kept him in check, too. I'm going with Poohdini.

2 is a great sample size.

[c3z4r]

dwill was averaging 22ppg, 10, 4, shooting 46% before he got injured, while rose has averaged 25, 8, 4 shooting 45 % . They've both averaged almost the same amount of turnovers (3.30 for deron and 3.40 for rose), but deron was averaging more steals 1.2 vs 1, while rose was averaging more blocks, 0.6 vs 0.2.

So there are their numbers, but take it with a grain of salt, bcuz those averages are for 46 games for deron (before his wrist injury) while they were for 81 games for rose.

Edit: I would honestly take dwill if i were to build a team

[Ikill]

Let me first say both guys are studs. D-Rose is awesome and a freakish athlete. The thing is that he's more of a SG who can also run the point. Kinda like how AI used to be. AI had PG handle and was a very good passer. But he wasn't a pass first type PG. This is how Rose is. Even though I feel he has to take on more of a scoring role for the Bulls to win. I just feel the best PG's of all time see the floor and game a certain way.

His size at 6'2 or 6'3 is normally the size of a PG or combo guard. If Rose was 6'5 or 6'6 he would be a SG flat out. If D-WIll was 6'5 or 6'6 he would still be a PG who could play SG or even SF. Cause D-Will sees the game like a PG. But D Will can also go off and assume the role of a scoring guard who can be a Batman. Magic, Big O, Isiah, Tiny, Payton, Frazier, KJ, and Tim Hardaway had this going for them as well. That's why I would take D-Will over Rose. But D-Rose is only 22 and is gonna get better. I feel a PG must drop the dimes and think a certain way. But in the combo guard sense I would take D Rose though. I think guys like Rose, AI, Terry, Monta Ellis, World B. Free, etc. belong in a combo guard category. Or small two guard category. All of them range from very good to great HOF type of players.
Rose is a full time PG he's not a combo guard like AI Terry or Ellis. Rose runs the offence these guys don't they would hurt the offence if they were placed at full time point guard with Rose you win 62 games. Rose adjusts his game to what his team needs if you put Chris Paul or Steve Nash on the bulls they would continue to pass the ball and would end up winning less games. Rose has great court vision he's not the most creative passer but if you put him on a team like the Celtics he would know his role pass the ball and put up 10 assists a game.

[NuggetsFan]

I'd go with Deron at this point. All tho both players are in the same tier\rank for me so I wouldn't really argue either way. Rose is an elite scorer however Deron can still put points up when needed but does it more so in the flow of the game and more efficiently. I don't care what the numbers say take a look at Boozer with Deron and Boozer with Rose. I know he's been injured but just obvious that Deron has the ability to get others involved more.

I'd rather have Deron who can run the offense much better while getting teammates involved while still being capable of scoring the bucket rather than Rose who will score more points but not as good in other area's. Deron's a better defensive player imo too.

Chris Paul
Deron
Rose

Is how I rank them. If your specifically talking about last year? Rose might be as high as 1 with the Utah|Deron mix up and switching teams plus Paul still coming back from that injury(probably won't hit that all-time '08 level again but still) and Derrick fully breaking out. Still think there better players just never had as good of a individual year if that makes any sense.

[Ikill]

I would take Deron Williams over Rose but i would take Rose over Chris Paul

[Stuckey]

i'd take healthy deron or chris over rose

but rose will improve

[guy]

Still amazed at how people can take deron after watching rose have pretty much a better year then deron ever has.

[Stuckey]

Still amazed at how people can take deron after watching rose have pretty much a better year then deron ever has.

deron can run the offense better, shoot much better, his crossover is good too (not as good but great nonetheless)

when healthy he is a better player :confusedshrug:

[guy]

deron can run the offense better, shoot much better, his crossover is good too (not as good but great nonetheless)

when healthy he is a better player :confusedshrug:

First of all, like I said before, all this "healthy" bullshit is irrelevant when you're talking about building around a player. If a "healthy" Yao Ming is better then Dirk Nowitzki, what relevance does that hold?

Like I said, Derrick Rose just had a greater season then Deron Williams ever has had, despite the fact that Deron has played twice as long as Rose. Does anyone honestly think Deron could've done what Rose did on the Bulls last year? Does anyone honestly think that Rose couldn't lead those Jazz teams to the same success or better then what Deron has done? Deron does not have the leadership and will that Rose has. He hasn't shown he has anywhere close to the leadership and will that Rose has shown this past season. Tell me exactly how Deron runs the offense better? Cause he has more assists? Derrick Rose maximized that Bulls' team success by giving his team what they needed. Thats what matters. Maybe if Deron did the same, his teams would've had alot more success.

[DRoseOwnsACamry]

Give me Rose. This isn't even close. Rose is 22, and the sky is the limit for him. Deron is 27, and his prime came and went. Plus, he's getting injured often.
Anyone who thinks Rose won't continue improving is kidding themselves. Look at the difference from 09-10 to 10-11.

[wang4three]

Like I said, Derrick Rose just had a greater season then Deron Williams ever has had, despite the fact that Deron has played twice as long as Rose.

And LeBron has had better seasons than the rest of the NBA for years, but apparently he's fallen out of people's top 5. I don't see how that's a legitimate argument against his case but not against Rose.



Does anyone honestly think Deron could've done what Rose did on the Bulls last year?

In the East? Yes.


Does anyone honestly think that Rose couldn't lead those Jazz teams to the same success or better then what Deron has done?

In my opinion, they'd have the same success. Doesn't make me think that Rose is better than Deron.



Deron does not have the leadership and will that Rose has. He hasn't shown he has anywhere close to the leadership and will that Rose has shown this past season.

What leadership are you referring to? What did Rose do as a leader? What makes him have more leadership qualities than Deron? What actual moment did you witness that you said "Wow, Deron is not like that." Cause honestly, I don't think Rose did anything out of the ordinary outside of being the best player on his team. Nothing I saw distinguished him from any other superstar in the league. Nothing different from Durant, Wade, Duncan, or anyone else who has a quiet and calm demeanor. If anything Rose may be the most stoic person in the league.

[Kellogs4toniee]

Who's a better player right now? Deron Williams. Maturity, decision making, etc.

Who would I pick right now? Rose for his potential / ceiling. All those things D-Will has an advantage of right now... Rose will learn soon. He has improved every year dramatically. Dude was a 25/7.7/4.1/1 player in his third season.

[guy]

And LeBron has had better seasons than the rest of the NBA for years, but apparently he's fallen out of people's top 5. I don't see how that's a legitimate argument against his case but not against Rose.


Umm, Lebron has not fallen out of people's top 5.



In the East? Yes.


Oh please. The East has closed the gap. Either way, I don't see Deron Williams leading a new cast to better records over a Lebron-Wade led Heat team and a very experienced stacked Celtics tea.




In my opinion, they'd have the same success. Doesn't make me think that Rose is better than Deron.

Fair enough.



What leadership are you referring to? What did Rose do as a leader? What makes him have more leadership qualities than Deron? What actual moment did you witness that you said "Wow, Deron is not like that." Cause honestly, I don't think Rose did anything out of the ordinary outside of being the best player on his team. Nothing I saw distinguished him from any other superstar in the league. Nothing different from Durant, Wade, Duncan, or anyone else who has a quiet and calm demeanor. If anything Rose may be the most stoic person in the league.

It doesn't sound like you watched many Bulls games then. He repeatedly during the season carried his team when his teammates couldn't get their shots going to wins that seemed out of reach. And this happened many times. He was very arguably the best closer in the league during the regular season. He always made big shots and big plays when needed most regardless of how he was playing before that. Thats the biggest difference between the two IMO. I can say that Rose and Deron are equal players during the first 42 minutes, but he clearly separates himself in the last 6. Not to say Deron doesn't exhibit some of the same qualities, just not to the same degree.

Not to mention from all the reports at least, his teammates get behind him in a way that Deron's teammates never have. And Rose respects his coach while Deron runs him out of town.

[ChandlerParsons]

Deron

[wang4three]

Umm, Lebron has not fallen out of people's top 5.

It was either this forum or another forum I read where the majority of people ranked Dirk, Wade, Kobe, Rose, and Dwight Howard over LeBron.



Oh please. The East has closed the gap. Either way, I don't see Deron Williams leading a new cast to better records over a Lebron-Wade led Heat team and a very experienced stacked Celtics tea.

Top to bottom it has not. The East is a very top heavy conference. After the top three teams, the competition really falls off.


It doesn't sound like you watched many Bulls games then. He repeatedly during the season carried his team when his teammates couldn't get their shots going to wins that seemed out of reach. And this happened many times. He was very arguably the best closer in the league during the regular season. He always made big shots and big plays when needed most regardless of how he was playing before that. Thats the biggest difference between the two IMO. I can say that Rose and Deron are equal players during the first 42 minutes, but he clearly separates himself in the last 6. Not to say Deron doesn't exhibit some of the same qualities, just not to the same degree.


Throughout college and the pros Deron has shown himself to be a primetime player. When he was 22, he also took the Jazz to the WCF. He has continually shown himself to step up and make big shots. And also you're acting like Rose has never missed a clutch shot. Plenty of times he has come up short at the free throw line, both in college and in the pros. They are equal in the clutch as far as I'm concerned.



Not to mention from all the reports at least, his teammates get behind him in a way that Deron's teammates never have. And Rose respects his coach while Deron runs him out of town.

Perhaps you can show me where Deron's teammates have called him out or "did not get behind him."

[I.R.Beast]

I dont believe in builidng a franchise around a PG, it has never worked and it never will. You should complete a team with a PG not start with one.

I'd start with Rose if i had the choice, he's harder to game plan for there is no pg in the league that can finish around the rim the way he does. He requires a wall of defenders to stop him from scoring along with hard doubles and triple teams to get the ball out of his hands. When he gets another consistent scoring option at the 2guard spot so that he doesnt have to take as many bad shots and so the defense can just home in on him he'll be even more unstoppable.

Derrick Rose is the easiest to build around because he doesnt need quite as much help as other PGs would need because he can win a series almost by himself if teams don't defend him properly, there's no tother PG that can do that. Deron Williams is the 2nd best pg in the league, and Chris Paul is overrated. He's a system PG that struggles when the pick and roll is properly defended.

[Pointguard]

Different animals for different needs. The point guard position makes a big jump in understanding as they enter the fourth year. Rondo, Stockton, Nash it seems like things seem to click with team experience. And Rose has had great increments in understanding how to win. His will power and determination from game to game is elite in the league already. He also carried more of an offensive burden than anybody else with a winning record. At his position Rose has elite speed, top notch strength, elite quickness, elite athletism, and great penetration. He has a couple of major advantages on everybody he plays. Lacks in the heady point game which might come with age. But is usually overwhelming with his other attributes.

Deron Williams does everything well and enough to provide a good even level for his team to thrive. His defense, strength, team wisdom, passing and shooting is would help every team. I don't think D Will could take away or clash with any team in the league. He a super serviceable point guard. Exactly what you want from the position. He's smart enough to know how to limit other guys advantages on him. Can do it all and does it all.

Rose will likely always get the best of him in H2H play. He seems to get up for their games. Very few players can lead a team to the best record, get an MVP, get 8 assist per game while having little offensive help with key injuries all year. I still don't feel steady in saying D Rose is better, but if next year is close to his past year - Rose is better to me without hesitation.

[DMAVS41]

Bad team? Rose

Good team? Williams

Great team? Williams

[bizil]

Rose is a full time PG he's not a combo guard like AI Terry or Ellis. Rose runs the offence these guys don't they would hurt the offence if they were placed at full time point guard with Rose you win 62 games. Rose adjusts his game to what his team needs if you put Chris Paul or Steve Nash on the bulls they would continue to pass the ball and would end up winning less games. Rose has great court vision he's not the most creative passer but if you put him on a team like the Celtics he would know his role pass the ball and put up 10 assists a game.

I realize Rose is a full time PG. But I feel as of now he's a scoring PG, combo guard, or small two guard type of player. AI, Terry, and Ellis all ran PG early in their careers. But all switched to 2 because of the way they see the game. But at times all three will run the point too. I value guys who can be a true Batman big time. So I dig Rose cause he's a true Batman. But at PG I feel u gotta see the game a certain way. AI have averaged 7-8 assists per game plenty of times in his career. But he's such a great scorer and tends to see the game in that vein first. In other words, AI was a great SG so talented he could swing to the PG and run it good. It's not a knock at all.

A great player is a great player. AI and D Rose are great players. But at PG I prefer a DWill or CP3 cause they can takeover a game scoring damn near just as good. And they are better floor generals than D-Rose. But on certain teams D-Rose might be a better fit. And DRose is only 22 so he's gonna get better. Westbrook is similar to Rose in that way. It's like people saying they would take Dirk over Duncan or KG. Sure Dirk is a revolutionary big man and a Batman. But he didn't have some of the other aspects you look for from a great PF. And Duncan and KG were Batman too so to me give me Duncan and KG over Dirk.

[Warriors fan]

Rose
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKPHihGdO2g&feature=related

[Bigsmoke]

For the record, Boozer was the Jazz best player in 2007. At least in the playoffs.

Deron Was cool but Booz was just unstoppable in the Rockets and Warriors series

[hoop_soup]

To all my fellow Bull fans, you don't have to ignore what most of these posters are saying, but just take it with a grain of salt. People like to criticize the most hyped/and or best athletes in the world. As Bulls fans we were used to it with Jordan, but it's been a long time since we had a great player on the Bulls, so it gets some getting used to again, especially in this internet/message board/twitter etc. world.

The majority claimed they would take a 27 year old " healthy" Deron Williams over a 22 year old Derrick Rose to start a team with...I would love for these folks to be the gms of all my rival teams!

To answer the question....Rose.

[Bucket_Nakedz]

it's rose but im a bulls fan, so im obviously biased.

people give a lot of flack towards scoring pg's. true, the pg position is traditionally a facilitator role. and if that is what you prefer than players like deron, paul and nash would be the obvious choice. their strengths in that area are obviously better than rose.

rose is unique. i don't necessarily view him as a pg (even though he'd liked to be called one), but he's a legit closer. imo, if the game is on the line and you had one play with a few seconds to win it all... im taking rose, easily.

[bizil]

it's rose but im a bulls fan, so im obviously biased.

people give a lot of flack towards scoring pg's. true, the pg position is traditionally a facilitator role. and if that is what you prefer than players like deron, paul and nash would be the obvious choice. their strengths in that area are obviously better than rose.

rose is unique. i don't necessarily view him as a pg (even though he'd liked to be called one), but he's a legit closer. imo, if the game is on the line and you had one play with a few seconds to win it all... im taking rose, easily.

Well said! It's not a knock at all to call DRose a more scoring type of PG. He has to do that as of now for the Bulls to win. I've always felt a Batman type of player as to command a certain kind of respect. And Rose is a Batman at the point no doubt. Jalen Rose says u are what your skills dictate. So I don't agree with people shittin on DRose cause he's not like D-Will or CP3. If people prefer D-Will and CP3 then cool. But for people to say Rose is to selfish is a lil too much. And trust me, Rose is the one guy other PG's don't wanna face. Cause dude is a Batman and can carry the scoring load. And still get 8 dimes a night. But I do admit guys like CP3 and DWill give u that perfect balance of floor general and being able takeover a game scoring.

[Da Heroic One]

Rose spanked Deron Williams two time this season. Kept him in check, too. I'm going with Poohdini.
I didn't realize outplaying someone twice was good enough for that player to be considered better than the other.

[FourthTenor]

deron

[nathanjizzle]

shows how dumb most you posters are and why your online posting about basketball and not actually out ballin. Really, deron williams over rose? Stupid :facepalm

[nathanjizzle]

I didn't realize outplaying someone twice was good enough for that player to be considered better than the other.

hes outplayed deron williams everytime they played, which is about 5 times....how much more times do you need? Rose outplays every pointguard he had played against for the last 3 years.

[Da Heroic One]

hes outplayed deron williams everytime they played, which is about 5 times....how much more times do you need? Rose outplays every pointguard he had played against for the last 3 years.
Then Yao Ming is better than Dwight Howard because Dwight Howard has never outplayed Yao Ming? Ya? Well at least during Yao's playing days.

[knicksman]

For the record, Boozer was the Jazz best player in 2007. At least in the playoffs.

Deron Was cool but Booz was just unstoppable in the Rockets and Warriors series

of course. deron setups boozer thats why hes unstoppable while rose takes away his touches coz he wants to score rather than to pass.

[knicksman]

Well said! It's not a knock at all to call DRose a more scoring type of PG. He has to do that as of now for the Bulls to win. I've always felt a Batman type of player as to command a certain kind of respect. And Rose is a Batman at the point no doubt. Jalen Rose says u are what your skills dictate. So I don't agree with people shittin on DRose cause he's not like D-Will or CP3. If people prefer D-Will and CP3 then cool. But for people to say Rose is to selfish is a lil too much. And trust me, Rose is the one guy other PG's don't wanna face. Cause dude is a Batman and can carry the scoring load. And still get 8 dimes a night. But I do admit guys like CP3 and DWill give u that perfect balance of floor general and being able takeover a game scoring.

yup that batman shoot 35% in the playoffs facing the likes of pacers and atlanta:lol

[Bigsmoke]

yup that batman shoot 35% in the playoffs facing the likes of pacers and atlanta:lol

u mean 30ppg/10APG/45%

[knicksman]

u mean 30ppg/10APG/45%

did i say series? LOL at this dumbass

[bizil]

yup that batman shoot 35% in the playoffs facing the likes of pacers and atlanta:lol

Rose is still MVP and a Batman. Hell Rose has to do so much for his team to win he was probably tired. And don't forget he hurt his ankle as well. He's only 22 and gonna get better. But those playoff series don't change the fact he's a Batman. If anything those Bulls players offensively can't hold up their end of the bargain. That's why he has to shoot so much. And his percentages can be down cause of having to force shots. So his teammates deserve some blame too. Boozer isn't living up to his contract at all for starters.

But I admit I dig CP3 and DWill more a PG cause of their dime droppin and floor general skills. But DRose is and unstoppable offensive force who is also a very good passer. Some teams are better off with a more scoring minded PG. So for that I would take DRose. And D Rose is a better dime dropper and floor general than PG's like Nelson, Parker, Curry, Arenas, Stuckey, and a lot of other PG's in the L.

[themurph]

of course. deron setups boozer thats why hes unstoppable while rose takes away his touches coz he wants to score rather than to pass.


Getting your shot blocked in the post and missing dunks has nothing to do with being set-up...Boozer was getting good shots in the Playoffs...He didn't have any lift...It's obvious he's not the same player he was when he was running with D. Wills...

[jbryan1984]

Let me watch Rose one more year to see if this level will stay consistent and then I will say Rose no hands down.

[Nezty]

Rose is probably the most overrated player in the NBA, I'll take Williams any day.

[Pointguard]

of course. deron setups boozer thats why hes unstoppable while rose takes away his touches coz he wants to score rather than to pass.
Setting up had nothing to do with Boozer's absolutely horrible play in the ECF. The guy showed nothing and willingness to do less. In fact he was unstoppably bad. Rose was doing that pathetic excuse a favor by taking more of the scoring burden. On top of that Booze didn't play a ton of fourth quarter minutes because he didn't know how keep himself in the game and he worse defensively adequate. He missed open shots, showed little next to no will power, still doesn't know the plays and doubled the pain with poor judgement... good luck on making further excuses for him.

[Pointguard]

Rose is probably the most overrated player in the NBA, I'll take Williams any day.
Rose deserved all the play he got. His team was projected eigth or nineth in preseason, suffered key injuries, had the least amount of explosive games from his help than any other star, had an inexperienced young team, new system, new coach, new players, new roles, Deng was the only other consistent player on the team, no other team had a star play good through the whole year, yet the Bulls had the best record.

[Pointguard]

Bad team? Rose

Good team? Williams

Great team? Williams

Rose was never on a bad team. Williams never lead a team to the best record. Description of teams has nothing to do with this conversation.

[magnax1]

Rose deserved all the play he got. His team was projected eigth or nineth in preseason, suffered key injuries, had the least amount of explosive games from his help than any other star, had an inexperienced young team, new system, new coach, new players, new roles, Deng was the only other consistent player on the team, no other team had a star play good through the whole year, yet the Bulls had the best record.
It really doesn't matter where his team was projected. His team was stacked especially defensively. Don't act like he was playing with scrubs.

[DRoseOwnsACamry]

All this Rose hate is unhealthy folks, you should get that checked out.

and Rose didn't shoot 35%, so GTFO with that bullshit.

[DMAVS41]

Rose was never on a bad team. Williams never lead a team to the best record. Description of teams has nothing to do with this conversation.

Actually it does.

If a team has quality players, then Williams is a better fit because he gets those players better looks because he's a better true pg.

If its a bad team, then Rose is more apt to carry the scoring load and produce wins by himself.

It absolutely matters. LOL at thinking otherwise.

[DRoseOwnsACamry]

It really doesn't matter where his team was projected. His team was stacked especially defensively. Don't act like he was playing with scrubs.
He didn't have another consistent offensive option. Why do you think he took so many shots?

Boozer? inconsistent, disappeared throughout the playoffs. Deng? good for 15-18 PPG, but inconsistent. Noah? Not an offensive player at all.

[DMAVS41]

He didn't have another consistent offensive option. Why do you think he took so many shots?

Boozer? inconsistent, disappeared throughout the playoffs. Deng? good for 15-18 PPG, but inconsistent. Noah? Not an offensive player at all.

Its not that he took so many shots, its that he didn't create scoring opportunities for his teammates very well......and he wasn't efficient at all.

He took way too many threes and missed way too many shots.

If you put a real pg on that team the offense would have been a lot better. Its not a knock on Rose per say because he's not great at the things that team actually needed yet. Deng and Boozer are more than good enough offensively to be the 2nd and 3rd options on a quality offense. Noah is an excellent passer and offensive rebounder.

The offense should have been better.....but its hard to flourish as a player when you play with a ball dominant pass first pg like Rose.

Just the truth.

[magnax1]

He didn't have another consistent offensive option. Why do you think he took so many shots?

Boozer? inconsistent, disappeared throughout the playoffs. Deng? good for 15-18 PPG, but inconsistent. Noah? Not an offensive player at all.
Boozer was a consistent 20 ppg until the end of the season, Deng was another 17 ppg, and then he had 6 really good role players, along with the best defense in the league. Even though his team had a pretty average, though by no means poor offense, it's only 1/3rd of the story, and the Bulls were among the best in terms of rebounding and defense.

[Rysio]

He didn't have another consistent offensive option. Why do you think he took so many shots?

Boozer? inconsistent, disappeared throughout the playoffs. Deng? good for 15-18 PPG, but inconsistent. Noah? Not an offensive player at all.
he never disappeared with d will on his team. wonder why :rolleyes:

[DMAVS41]

Boozer was a consistent 20 ppg until the end of the season, Deng was another 17 ppg, and then he had 6 really good role players, along with the best defense in the league. Even though his team had a pretty average, though by no means poor offense, it's only 1/3rd of the story, and the Bulls were among the best in terms of rebounding and defense.

Yep. And Rose made no impact on the rebounding or defense. The Bulls were actually better defensively without Rose in the game all year long.

His impact was on offense. And he has a lot to learn if he's going to play pg going forward.

He needs to learn to consistently create scoring opportunities for his teammates. Otherwise, he's just a sg playing pg. And a team built around a guy like that will have a very tough time winning.

[magnax1]

Yep. And Rose made no impact on the rebounding or defense. The Bulls were actually better defensively without Rose in the game all year long.

His impact was on offense. And he has a lot to learn if he's going to play pg going forward.

He needs to learn to consistently create scoring opportunities for his teammates. Otherwise, he's just a sg playing pg. And a team built around a guy like that will have a very tough time winning.
Agreed, unless they get another creator and have a dumars/isiah combo. Really it's not even that he's a bad passer, it's just his mentality, and sometimes that's not something you can work on.

[knicksman]

Rose is still MVP and a Batman. Hell Rose has to do so much for his team to win he was probably tired. And don't forget he hurt his ankle as well. He's only 22 and gonna get better. But those playoff series don't change the fact he's a Batman. If anything those Bulls players offensively can't hold up their end of the bargain. That's why he has to shoot so much. And his percentages can be down cause of having to force shots. So his teammates deserve some blame too. Boozer isn't living up to his contract at all for starters.

But I admit I dig CP3 and DWill more a PG cause of their dime droppin and floor general skills. But DRose is and unstoppable offensive force who is also a very good passer. Some teams are better off with a more scoring minded PG. So for that I would take DRose. And D Rose is a better dime dropper and floor general than PG's like Nelson, Parker, Curry, Arenas, Stuckey, and a lot of other PG's in the L.

LOL please stop with these unstoppable nonsense. thats why he shoots 35% in the playoffs. if lebron and wade can be stopped. how much more this "unstoppable force" you keep saying. thats why a scoring pg has never won in since the creation of the league because they are the easiest to stop.

and LOL at him having no help. im not idiot to think this guy doesnt have huge ego. im not fooled by his humble appearance. this guy has huge ego thats why he wants to score. hes in the same mold as lbj, wade, ai, marbury who wants to score and at the same time playmake so they can have the best stats which is needed for mvp.

[DMAVS41]

LOL please stop with these unstoppable nonsense. thats why he shoots 35% in the playoffs. if lebron and wade can be stopped. how much more this "unstoppable force" you keep saying. thats why a scoring pg has never won in since the creation of the league because they are the easiest to stop.

and LOL at him having no help. im not idiot to think this guy doesnt have huge ego. im not fooled by his humble appearance. this guy has huge ego thats why he wants to score. hes in the same mold as lbj, wade, ai, marbury who wants to score and at the same time playmake so they can have the best stats which is needed for mvp.

yea. bulls fans got really bad about this.

again, he had two players in deng and boozer that are proven 17 plus ppg scorers in the playoffs. both have done that without rose.

he had a top 5 center that is great on the boards, defensively, and is a great passer.

he had a quality 3 point shooter in korver.

and then he had a bunch of quality role players like gibson/bogans/brewer/thomas

and some decent fill in pieces like watson/asik


And again, the Bulls defense/rebounding was great with or without Rose. Rose made no impact on either all year. The defense actually got better without Rose and the rebounding remained constant.

So its not like you can credit Rose with the defense and rebounding at all.

And that is why guys like Paul and Williams are better. They would improve the Bulls offense and defense. Especially Paul would improve the defense as he's a far better defender than Rose.

The problem was not the supporting cast in the playoffs. The problem was rose shot jacking his team out of games shooting sub 40 from the field and sub 25 from the three point line.

And failing miserably in crunch time as well didn't help.

[CeltsGarlic]

Derrick Williams.

[Hondo]

Deron Williams, without even considering Rose for a nano-second.

I want a guy who can play physical D, can shoot, and can pass at an elite level. I'd trade Rondo for Williams, but not for Rose.

[Pointguard]

It really doesn't matter where his team was projected. His team was stacked especially defensively. Don't act like he was playing with scrubs.

Yes it does matter if you are expected to finish 8th and if his team surpassed super teams, super experienced teams, well constructed teams, way more talented teams and his team faced injuries to key guys all year long, the league saying it emphasized offense, Boozer on some trip and Noah never played like he did last year. Now you are only talking about Deng. Think about it.

[bizil]

LOL please stop with these unstoppable nonsense. thats why he shoots 35% in the playoffs. if lebron and wade can be stopped. how much more this "unstoppable force" you keep saying. thats why a scoring pg has never won in since the creation of the league because they are the easiest to stop.

and LOL at him having no help. im not idiot to think this guy doesnt have huge ego. im not fooled by his humble appearance. this guy has huge ego thats why he wants to score. hes in the same mold as lbj, wade, ai, marbury who wants to score and at the same time playmake so they can have the best stats which is needed for mvp.

When I say unstoppable I don't mean unstoppable all the time. I'm saying Rose is an elite scorer. When he gets it really rolling he can be unstoppable. He shot 35% no doubt. But that he's still a Batman and an MVP. If you question that then I seriously doubt your understanding of bballl.

U gotta have somewhat of an ego to be great. It's about using all of your skills to the fullest. All the guys u named have PG type capablities. But they are also tremendous scorers. Wade is a SG who is supposed to score. But Wade can also play PG as well, which he did damn near exclusively as a rookie. Same thing for AI as well. But Bron also started at PG for a lot of his rookie year as well. Marbury was a better passer and floor general than D Rose. Marbury at his best was almost the perfect balance of scoring and assists at PG. And ya DRose had some talent around him. But he doesn't have HOF caliber talent around him. And the Bulls don't have a wealth of offensive weapon on that team either. A team like Dallas has multiple offensive weapons. Rose doesn't have that luxury. If your best offensive punch off the bench is Korver and Gibson u aren't in great shape with a staring five like the Bulls have.

And like I said before I prefer DWill and CP3 at the PG than Rose. But Rose is still a great player and the MVP despite this past playoff run. Rose simply needs more help on that team. And by the way Magic and Isiah were PG's who could also score the rock. Just as good as the elite scores in the L. But they were also sick dime droppers and floor general on top of it. Magic and Isiah used to drop 23-24 points a night in season. Just like Rose is doing now. And by the way Tony Parker is a scoring PG similar in fashion to Rose. And he won Finals MVP. So that bullshit u said earlier aint true buddy. But thing is Parker was the third best player on the team in reality behing Timmy and Manu. Both are excellent all around players who allowed Parker to be that scoring PG.

[Pointguard]

Actually it does.

If a team has quality players, then Williams is a better fit because he gets those players better looks because he's a better true pg.

If its a bad team, then Rose is more apt to carry the scoring load and produce wins by himself.

It absolutely matters. LOL at thinking otherwise.

Just because you say its so, I supposed to be hypnotized into believing it? Rose played on good teams and did more than Williams did. Playoffs or not playoffs. So you are wrong about the good team example. Great teams come in different packages, in fact they all have been in different packages. So you have no ground to say what you are saying.

[DMAVS41]

Just because you say its so, I supposed to be hypnotized into believing it? Rose played on good teams and did more than Williams did. Playoffs or not playoffs. So you are wrong about the good team example. Great teams come in different packages, in fact they all have been in different packages. So you have no ground to say what you are saying.

So if you had Paul Pierce and Ray Allen and KG on a team.....you think a shoot first pg that isn't a great passer makes more sense on that team than a guy like chris paul?????

That is total BS.

Rose has a totally different skillset and thus his skills are better suited for a certain type of team.

A team with better players would suit Williams more because he's a better passer and plays the game like a point guard. Rose plays more like a shooting guard that passes because the ball is in his hands more often.

Wow. Really?

[Pointguard]

Yep. And Rose made no impact on the rebounding or defense. The Bulls were actually better defensively without Rose in the game all year long.
Simple questions, who is the best player on the team? Who is unquestioned leader of the team? Who do they look to for energy? Name me an elite pointguard that got near his average on Rose? How many elite pointguards switch off to guard the best two guard and cover him as good as anybody ever did in the playoffs? On top of that carry DRose's offensive burden? Is Rose playing on the defensive unit? Please, just answer any of those questions. I promise to answer any of yours.


His impact was on offense. And he has a lot to learn if he's going to play pg going forward.



OK. So let's compare his impact to any current player you which to choose at 22 years of age? Best record in the league and CF as the leader of his team. Exclude Lebron.

Dirk has been the worse defensive PF ever considered great and its not even debatable. And you are arguing that he is top 20 ever. Dirk doesn't even play good PF's much less great one's the majority of his career. Rose consistently and thoroughly held down the elite to very low numbers the whole year with only a couple of exceptions.



He needs to learn to consistently create scoring opportunities for his teammates. Otherwise, he's just a sg playing pg. And a team built around a guy like that will have a very tough time winning.

I didn't know they were loosing? They are a young team that achieved exceptionally high. Distribution is something the team can work at. Guys got to want to dribble and make shots - so who are you saying was that guy?

I remember a time, 13 years ago, when a powerforward that didn't rebound and sucked at defense couldn't even be in the league. 13 years later they can be considered in the top 20. But defense and rebounding is why Chicago was such a great team. So it usually about the flavor of the moment with you.

[Pointguard]

So if you had Paul Pierce and Ray Allen and KG on a team.....you think a shoot first pg that isn't a great passer makes more sense on that team than a guy like chris paul?????

That is total BS.

Rose has a totally different skillset and thus his skills are better suited for a certain type of team.

A team with better players would suit Williams more because he's a better passer and plays the game like a point guard. Rose plays more like a shooting guard that passes because the ball is in his hands more often.

Wow. Really?
The last two point guards to win Finals MVP's were shoot first guards. So obviously you can't speak for all great teams. No point guard has ever won with D Rose's current team but if Lebron played weak like he did with Dallas, D Rose was really close.

REALLY

[DMAVS41]

Simple questions, who is the best player on the team? Who is unquestioned leader of the team? Who do they look to for energy? Name me an elite pointguard that got near his average on Rose? How many elite pointguards switch off to guard the best two guard and cover him as good as anybody ever did in the playoffs? On top of that carry DRose's offensive burden? Is Rose playing on the defensive unit? Please, just answer any of those questions. I promise to answer any of yours.



OK. So let's compare his impact to any current player you which to choose at 22 years of age? Best record in the league and CF as the leader of his team. Exclude Lebron.

Dirk has been the worse defensive PF ever considered great and its not even debatable. And you are arguing that he is top 20 ever. Dirk doesn't even play good PF's much less great one's the majority of his career. Rose consistently and thoroughly held down the elite to very low numbers the whole year with only a couple of exceptions.



I didn't know they were loosing? They are a young team that achieved exceptionally high. Distribution is something the team can work at. Guys got to want to dribble and make shots - so who are you saying was that guy?

I remember a time, 13 years ago, when a powerforward that didn't rebound and sucked at defense couldn't even be in the league. 13 years later they can be considered in the top 20. But defense and rebounding is why Chicago was such a great team. So it usually about the flavor of the moment with you.

Ok:

1. Rose is of course the best player. However, the main reasons the Bulls were good this year were defense and rebounding. Offensively they were ok.

2. Age has nothing to do with this. If you want to grade on an "age curve" then I would respond differently. I actually like Rose a lot. I think he ceiling is through the roof. I'm talking about right now with age not being a factor.

3. I didn't say Rose was a poor defender. I said he didn't impact the teams' defense statistically at all this year. Meaning that they were just as good/better with him on or off the floor.

4. I didn't mean losing as in having a losing year. I'm talking about having success in the playoffs and winning titles. Do you think the Bulls beat the Heat if Rose plays well? I mean, he was pretty awful and the Bulls still had a very good chance to win every game. So I'm not going to blame his teammates when all Rose had to do was play average and they could have easily beat the Heat and perhaps won the title.

5. Dirk has nothing to do with this, but Dirk did positively impact the defense for the Mavs this year and has been one of the better defensive rebounders in playoff history. I think Rose will ultimately be a better defender, but lets not act like Dirk is the worst defender ever. The myth should have been debunked years ago. And again, I wasn't implying that Rose is a sorry defender. I said that he doesn't impact the Bulls much defensively either way. Which is just a fact.

[DMAVS41]

The last two point guards to win Finals MVP's were shoot first guards. So obviously you can't speak for all great teams. No point guard has ever won with D Rose's current team but if Lebron played weak like he did with Dallas, D Rose was really close.

REALLY

Tony Parker is not on the level of a Rose in ball dominance or usage or shot attempts.

Same thing with Billups.

I think that is a completely different example. But regardless, even if you want to play that game. It does not happen often.

I'll say it again. I'm not saying Rose is a scrub or something. He's probably in my top 10 current players. But he's over-rated here if people think he's in that top 5. He's not. Some of it is his fault, and some of it is the nature of the position.

Do I think Paul or Williams are better suited to play pg on championship caliber teams right now? Absolutely. And I think most people that know the game would agree.

I won't throw a ton of stats at you, but Chris Paul led teams since 05 have the 2nd best record in close games. Their offensive efficiency in crunch time is by far the best. He's done that with average teams at best. Paul simply makes players around him better. So does Williams. I don't see that from Rose.

I think Rose's style inhibits his teammates play......Just the way I feel.

[knicksman]

When I say unstoppable I don't mean unstoppable all the time. I'm saying Rose is an elite scorer. When he gets it really rolling he can be unstoppable. He shot 35% no doubt. But that he's still a Batman and an MVP. If you question that then I seriously doubt your understanding of bballl.

U gotta have somewhat of an ego to be great. It's about using all of your skills to the fullest. All the guys u named have PG type capablities. But they are also tremendous scorers. Wade is a SG who is supposed to score. But Wade can also play PG as well, which he did damn near exclusively as a rookie. Same thing for AI as well. But Bron also started at PG for a lot of his rookie year as well. Marbury was a better passer and floor general than D Rose. Marbury at his best was almost the perfect balance of scoring and assists at PG. And ya DRose had some talent around him. But he doesn't have HOF caliber talent around him. And the Bulls don't have a wealth of offensive weapon on that team either. A team like Dallas has multiple offensive weapons. Rose doesn't have that luxury. If your best offensive punch off the bench is Korver and Gibson u aren't in great shape with a staring five like the Bulls have.

And like I said before I prefer DWill and CP3 at the PG than Rose. But Rose is still a great player and the MVP despite this past playoff run. Rose simply needs more help on that team. And by the way Magic and Isiah were PG's who could also score the rock. Just as good as the elite scores in the L. But they were also sick dime droppers and floor general on top of it. Magic and Isiah used to drop 23-24 points a night in season. Just like Rose is doing now. And by the way Tony Parker is a scoring PG similar in fashion to Rose. And he won Finals MVP. So that bullshit u said earlier aint true buddy. But thing is Parker was the third best player on the team in reality behing Timmy and Manu. Both are excellent all around players who allowed Parker to be that scoring PG.

having an ego is a good thing but not for 6'3 players coz it will spell disaster. he will be in the mold of iverson, marbury who because of their ego, doesnt want to pass but to shoot. the shorter you are, the less efficient you are so LOL at rose being unstoppable when among the superstars, he is the easiest to stop thats why he shoots 35% in the playoffs.

and why are you comparing a 3rd option to a 1st option. what im trying to mean here is no team has ever won a title with a score first pg as the first option

[I.R.Beast]

Tony Parker is not on the level of a Rose in ball dominance or usage or shot attempts.

Same thing with Billups.

I think that is a completely different example. But regardless, even if you want to play that game. It does not happen often.

I'll say it again. I'm not saying Rose is a scrub or something. He's probably in my top 10 current players. But he's over-rated here if people think he's in that top 5. He's not. Some of it is his fault, and some of it is the nature of the position.

Do I think Paul or Williams are better suited to play pg on championship caliber teams right now? Absolutely. And I think most people that know the game would agree.

I won't throw a ton of stats at you, but Chris Paul led teams since 05 have the 2nd best record in close games. Their offensive efficiency in crunch time is by far the best. He's done that with average teams at best. Paul simply makes players around him better. So does Williams. I don't see that from Rose.

I think Rose's style inhibits his teammates play......Just the way I feel.

harcore fans dont look at the game and think about usage and point per possession etc. Rose is flat out better than every other PG...It's that simple....Rose is the single most unstoppable pg with the ball in his hands, put him in a situation where he didnt have to take on so much load offensively and noone will be able to guard him. I dont care about efficiency only results.

Dirk was as ineffienct as ineffienct can be in the finals but he kept chuckin em up and the one that went in were big. This game we love called basketball is about playing to win, not too look good or post pretty numbers. If rose was as passive as chris paul then he'd shoot about 3% higher from 2pt range and 3 point range, but his agressive approach is what keeps the bulls afloat he cant afford to be more tentative for the sake of efficiemcy. It's not worth him passing up on shots he has confidence in his ability to make.

My only gripe with Rose last season was the 3s...i felt as though he fell in love with the 3 which indeed improved but it's still a shot he hasnt mastered yet, so i felt as though he sttled for too many of those and kinda abandoned his mid ranhe jumpshot which was so reliable for him in his 2nd year. the 3pter chuckin is what hurt his percentages most in the playoffs

[DMAVS41]

harcore fans dont look at the game and think about usage and point per possession etc. Rose is flat out better than every other PG...It's that simple....Rose is the single most unstoppable pg with the ball in his hands, put him in a situation where he didnt have to take on so much load offensively and noone will be able to guard him. I dont care about efficiency only results.

Dirk was as ineffienct as ineffienct can be in the finals but he kept chuckin em up and the one that went in were big. This game we love called basketball is about playing to win, not too look good or post pretty numbers. If rose was as passive as chris paul then he'd shoot about 3% higher from 2pt range and 3 point range, but his agressive approach is what keeps the bulls afloat he cant afford to be more tentative for the sake of efficiemcy. It's not worth him passing up on shots he has confidence in his ability to make.

My only gripe with Rose last season was the 3s...i felt as though he fell in love with the 3 which indeed improved but it's still a shot he hasnt mastered yet, so i felt as though he sttled for too many of those and kinda abandoned his mid ranhe jumpshot which was so reliable for him in his 2nd year. the 3pter chuckin is what hurt his percentages most in the playoffs

1. You are describing a shooting guard and not a point guard

2. Dirk was more efficient in the finals than Rose was the entire playoffs. LOL

[I.R.Beast]

What's the obsession with Pass first PGs anyway?.....History shows that they generally don't win. Magic is an exception and that team was stacked.


Pass first pgs need more weapons to be successful than a score first PG like rose would need to be successful..The whole "true pg" this is overrated and overused....guys like chris paul will join a long line of "true pg's" that never won a ring a didnt win until they were at the back end of their career playing for a team that was so good that they didnt have to do anything but pass.

Get rose a capable SG and he can carry his tema to the finals right now.

[I.R.Beast]

1. You are describing a shooting guard and not a point guard

2. Dirk was more efficient in the finals than Rose was the entire playoffs. LOL

Call him an SG all you want, as long as he's listed as a PG he's the best PG.

Dirk is PF that shot 41% in the finals, since you want to point at stats that Horrible for his position...he doesnt even average 10 rebounds, he's not a good shotblocker and he's a legit 7 FTer...is he then a small forward?...

Who cares who was more efficient.... What did dwyane wade's effinciency get him in the finals?.....nothing!!!...

[knicksman]

What's the obsession with Pass first PGs anyway?.....History shows that they generally don't win. Magic is an exception and that team was stacked.


Pass first pgs need more weapons to be successful than a score first PG like rose would need to be successful..The whole "true pg" this is overrated and overused....guys like chris paul will join a long line of "true pg's" that never won a ring a didnt win until they were at the back end of their career playing for a team that was so good that they didnt have to do anything but pass.

Get rose a capable SG and he can carry his tema to the finals right now.

LOL at least they won compared to score first PGs who have not won since the creation of this league

[I.R.Beast]

LOL at least they won compared to score first PGs who have not won since the creation of this league


billups, parker, jason terry, dennis johnson, isaih thomas, Derrick fisher......


Their hasn't been a team in almost 20 years that has won a title with their pg averaging over 7 assists. Gaudy assists numbers by one player indicates poor ball movement and ball domination, which is a recipe for disaster. Pass first PGs live and die by the consistency of their teammates.

[knicksman]

billups, parker, jason terry, dennis johnson, isaih thomas, Derrick fisher......


Their hasn't been a team in almost 20 years that has won a title with their pg averaging over 7 assists. Gaudy assists numbers by one player indicates poor ball movement and ball domination, which is a recipe for disaster. Pass first PGs live and die by the consistency of their teammates.

WTF. are these guys first option or the man of their team? no,, and isiah thomas is a pass first

[Go Getter]

WTF. are these guys first option or the man of their team? no,, and isiah thomas is a pass first

Zeke was more of a scoring PG.

[magnax1]

Yes it does matter if you are expected to finish 8th and if his team surpassed super teams, super experienced teams, well constructed teams, way more talented teams and his team faced injuries to key guys all year long, the league saying it emphasized offense, Boozer on some trip and Noah never played like he did last year. Now you are only talking about Deng. Think about it.
What team was way more talented? Nobody. They were the top defense in the league, a top 5 rebounding team, had boozer for 60 games, Noah for 50, Deng a whole season, Korver, Gibson, Thomas, Bogans, Brewer, and Watson. Nobody but Dallas had that sort of depth, and Dallas didn't have near the defense Chicago did.

[Go Getter]

What team was way more talented? Nobody. They were the top defense in the league, a top 5 rebounding team, had boozer for 60 games, Noah for 50, Deng a whole season, Korver, Gibson, Thomas, Bogans, Brewer, and Watson. Nobody but Dallas had that sort of depth, and Dallas didn't have near the defense Chicago did.


Wrong.

There are plenty of more talented teams.

The Bulls played over their heads this past season.

[Bigsmoke]

What team was way more talented? Nobody. They were the top defense in the league, a top 5 rebounding team, had boozer for 60 games, Noah for 50, Deng a whole season, Korver, Gibson, Thomas, Bogans, Brewer, and Watson. Nobody but Dallas had that sort of depth, and Dallas didn't have near the defense Chicago did.


:sleeping

you said the Bulls werent going to finish ahead of the Bucks last year but now you think the Bulls were super stacked last year from 1-15:no:

Boozer didn't play 60 games. i know that for sure

[Ikill]

billups, parker, jason terry, dennis johnson, isaih thomas, Derrick fisher......


Their hasn't been a team in almost 20 years that has won a title with their pg averaging over 7 assists. Gaudy assists numbers by one player indicates poor ball movement and ball domination, which is a recipe for disaster. Pass first PGs live and die by the consistency of their teammates.
This scoring point guards that can play off the ball and are decent passers are the best for championship teams

[themurph]

LOL at least they won compared to score first PGs who have not won since the creation of this league


Where do you guys get this sh*t from?....lol

It's been listed countless of times..."traditional" PG's rarely win rings...

Since the '80s, here is a list of the "traditional PG's" that have won the rings...


Magic
Rondo
Kidd


And on the real, you can't even include Kidd because while he showed heart and savvy during that Finals series against the Heat (his defense and clutch 3 point shooting had a huge impact), he was hardly the All-Star Kidd we were used to seeing...The back-up PG was basically their starter (Terry)....

So what about the non-traditional PG's that have won rings?

I. Thomas (at times Dumars passed the ball more than him)
John Paxson
Kenny Smith
Sam Cassell
Dereck Fisher
Chauncy Billups (shot more 3's than his starting shooting guard/small forwards)
Tony Parker (rarely averaged more than 6 assists)
J. Terry

These players ^^^ represent the majority of the championships that have been won...

So what does all this say? Traditional PG's win championships when they are NOT the best player on the team....That's what made Magic such a great, once in a life-time player...He was the best player on those Lakers teams and he still won...This is the reason why Steve Nash has never won a ring....

Basically, if I'm starting a team, I'm picking Rose over D. Williams or CP3, each and every time....The only way I'm picking those two exceptional talents over the other exceptional talent Rose is if I have a Dirk or Lebron or Wade type talent playing next to them....

Truth is the truth....

[themurph]

WTF. are these guys first option or the man of their team? no,, and isiah thomas is a pass first


You have no idea what you are talking about...Thomas was a shoot first PG all the way....Again...where do you guys get your info from?

[Pointguard]

Ok:

1. Rose is of course the best player. However, the main reasons the Bulls were good this year were defense and rebounding. Offensively they were ok.
Only SA had a better record against the best teams than Chicago did. The second half of the year nobody had a better record against the elite or the rest of the league than Chicago did. You can't beat the better teams with just defense and rebounding. You have to outscore them and outside of Rose, Chicago lacked explosive scoring power. Miami has two of the games best offensive players and had a near equal defense to Chicago and 3 less rebounds per game. So defense and rebounding still needs other elements to win.


2. Age has nothing to do with this. If you want to grade on an "age curve" then I would respond differently. I actually like Rose a lot. I think he ceiling is through the roof. I'm talking about right now with age not being a factor.
The curve is relevant. You are expecting things from him that no other player has accomplished at his age, with the exception of a couple of all time greats.

3. I didn't say Rose was a poor defender. I said he didn't impact the teams' defense statistically at all this year. Meaning that they were just as good/better with him on or off the floor.
As I said. D Rose plays with the offensive unit and spends the most time on the floor than any other team mate at 40 minutes per game. Few players have the defensive success that Rose has had against the elite at his position



4. I didn't mean losing as in having a losing year. I'm talking about having success in the playoffs and winning titles. Do you think the Bulls beat the Heat if Rose plays well? I mean, he was pretty awful and the Bulls still had a very good chance to win every game. So I'm not going to blame his teammates when all Rose had to do was play average and they could have easily beat the Heat and perhaps won the title.
That's crap and you know it. Rose played bad because Miami trapped him and nobody else stepped up. Noah and Boozer were averaging 4 minutes in the 4th quarter the last three games, while their backup was out with an injury for the last two. Chicago doesn't have guys that can dribble very well and they weren't making Miami pay for trapping Rose. Rose was tired because rarely ever is the person being trapped is expected to be the one to beat it. I never seen that ever in the history of the game.


5. Dirk has nothing to do with this, but Dirk did positively impact the defense for the Mavs this year and has been one of the better defensive rebounders in playoff history. I think Rose will ultimately be a better defender, but lets not act like Dirk is the worst defender ever. The myth should have been debunked years ago. And again, I wasn't implying that Rose is a sorry defender. I said that he doesn't impact the Bulls much defensively either way. Which is just a fact.

Name me another Bulls defender that has held down the opposition's star positional player like Rose has.. with his consistency and almost with out exception? Deng and Noah are the only other big minute players that can be considered a better defender than Rose on the team and they haven't done what I mentioned above. Sorry but you are off base with this. On top of this, Rose is the leader, energy leader and the confidence booster on a young team. His defense is impactful because of his relationship to the players and what he instills in them.
Of the outstanding power forwards... Dirk is the worse defender.

[Pointguard]

Tony Parker is not on the level of a Rose in ball dominance or usage or shot attempts.

Same thing with Billups.
We are only bringing them up to suggest that great teams can have scoring come from anywhere and guys playing less traditional roles. I'm only interested in that point.


I think that is a completely different example. But regardless, even if you want to play that game. It does not happen often. If you want to play that game... currently its the better example. It doesn't happen much the other way around. Magic would be the exception. Isiah was a hybrid.


I'll say it again. I'm not saying Rose is a scrub or something. He's probably in my top 10 current players. But he's over-rated here if people think he's in that top 5. He's not. Some of it is his fault, and some of it is the nature of the position.
He's definitely been a top 5 player this year. Totally unfair to say he wasn't. He did more in regards to wins than any other player. Had more 4th quarter wins because of his execution at the end of games. His young team went thru more than another other contender. He's had more responsibility than any other top seven player as well. Stat wise he's top five.


Do I think Paul or Williams are better suited to play pg on championship caliber teams right now? Absolutely. And I think most people that know the game would agree.

You keep saying that, but everything is relevant to how a team is constructed - things are not traditional anymore. Why are you so traditional with the pointguard position and exatly the opposite with the power forward position. Dirk isn't the tough enforcer, that hustles, claims the lowblocks, defends and goes after every rebound.


I won't throw a ton of stats at you, but Chris Paul led teams since 05 have the 2nd best record in close games. Their offensive efficiency in crunch time is by far the best. He's done that with average teams at best. Paul simply makes players around him better. So does Williams. I don't see that from Rose.

I think Rose's style inhibits his teammates play......Just the way I feel.
Which teammates do you think was hindered? Who do you see Rose making an offensive weapon out of on that team?

If you are suggesting that Chris Paul had a better year than Rose you are out of your mind. I like Paul better as a point guard but he has to prove he can play a whole year again before I can say he's better than Rose. I said last year that Paul was ready to crack the big three with DH.

[Pointguard]

What team was way more talented? Nobody. They were the top defense in the league, a top 5 rebounding team, had boozer for 60 games, Noah for 50, Deng a whole season, Korver, Gibson, Thomas, Bogans, Brewer, and Watson. Nobody but Dallas had that sort of depth, and Dallas didn't have near the defense Chicago did.

The East Allstar team had seven players from Miami and Boston. Atlanta had two. Star talent is what separates most teams. Boozer didn't know most of the plays in April. Noah wasn't Noah from the year before and he's a hustle player not a talented player. Deng was his usual solid self. LA has more talent than anybody. Dallas had more players win playoff games than any other team. OKC has more talent for sure. SA way more experience.

Defense and rebounding isn't about talent. Of the other players you mentioned, Gibson is the only player I feel confident about that will be in the league in two years. Korver, Thomas, Bogans and Brewer are not not superior talents as you suggest. Asik should be around as well. Asik and Gibson weren't seasoned enough to get a lot out of their talents.

[magnax1]

The East Allstar team had seven players from Miami and Boston. Atlanta had two. Star talent is what separates most teams. Boozer didn't know most of the plays in April. Noah wasn't Noah from the year before and he's a hustle player not a talented player. Deng was his usual solid self. LA has more talent than anybody. Dallas had more players win playoff games than any other team. OKC has more talent for sure. SA way more experience.

Defense and rebounding isn't about talent. Of the other players you mentioned, Gibson is the only player I feel confident about that will be in the league in two years. Korver, Thomas, Bogans and Brewer are not not superior talents as you suggest. Asik should be around as well. Asik and Gibson weren't seasoned enough to get a lot out of their talents.
Defense is very much about talent. You don't play great defense without good individual defenders who know what they're doing like Bogans, Deng, Brewer, Thomas, Asik, Gibson, and Noah. Same with rebounding. You don't get to be a top 5 rebounding team without Boozer, Noah, Thomas, Asik, and Gibson. Obviously you don't realize that offense isn't the only way the game can be affected, or you just don't want to admit that the Bulls were really talented and deep.

[DMAVS41]

Pointguard:

You are too big of a homer to have a legit discussion with. Rose was not a sure fire top 5 player this year. Sorry.

He was a sure fire top 8 player overall this year probably.


You can't just overlook his very poor playoff play. You know, when the games matter the most. Over 6 threes a game at 24.8%...horrible. 39.6% shooting from the field.

Absolutely horrendous 4th qtr play against the Heat.

Nobody else stepped up? How could they? Did they ever get the ball? Did their pg ever set them up?

I guess the do or die game 4 was on everyone but Rose in the Heat series. Right? Boozer had 20/11/3, Noah had 6/14/6, Deng had 20/8/2.....LOL

Rose had 23/3/6 on his usual horrendous efficiency. 1 of 9 from three and 29.6% for the game. But yea, it was on his teammates. Not to mention somehow the game still went to OT after Rose came up as small as possible in crunch time yet again.



You say Rose got trapped and that is why he played poorly. Lets say I agree. Then why is he taking 24 shots a game????? If he's getting doubled and trapped all game....and he's not making anything, why is he continuing to not pass to the open man????? I hope you realize that makes your argument worse, not better.

Rose does not have to be superman to win. He has to be average man to win. The Bulls did not lose a game in the playoffs when Rose shot over 42.1%. The Bulls were a perfect 7-0. I don't think that is asking too much from your star. Rose just happened to shoot horribly in the other 9 games and it cost the Bulls a chance at the title. 7 games under 37.5% shooting out of 16?????? That won't get it done......and especially won't get it done when he's taking an average of like 26 shots in those games.

And whether you want to acknowledge reality or not, Rose has little to no impact on defense and rebounding for the Bulls.

His primary job is to run the offense and score. And that is exactly what let them down in the playoffs.

Which teammates does he inhibit? All of them. He's a shoot first inefficient point guard that doesn't create many good looks for his teammates.

[Dengness9]

Dmavs you need to stop acting like such a stuck up bitch.

Congrats to the Mavs and Dirk, I'm pumped they won but now cuz of that you think you can tear down a 22 year old MVP who went through growing pains on an offensively challenged team in the conf finals???

I don't wanna waste too much time cuz clearly you are off on analyzing Rose but seriously....


Kieth Bogans didn't even average 4 ppg a game this year. Noah is clearly not talented offensively, Boozer disappeared for a majority of the playoffs, plus Noah and Booz have no chemisty. Then you have Deng who averages 17ppg or so but cannot create his own shot on the dribble, and doesn't score in the 4th much because of how much D he's play on the other teams best players. Beyond that Kyle Korver was downright HORRIBLE against the Heat.


Give the kid more time(22 years old) and atleast an upgrade at the 2 spot and teams like the Heat won't be able to double and triple him for 40 minutes a game.


People like you really don't understand how hard it is for 1 player to do everything offensively for his team in the playoffs.

Name 1 team in the playoffs who didn't have ATLEAST 2 offensive playmakers on their team??????

A big reason that Mavs had success against the Heat was multiple playmakers, Kidd, Barea, Dirk, and the Jet.

Derrick Rose has Bogans, Brewer, Watson???? That's what I thought.

[DMAVS41]

Dmavs you need to stop acting like such a stuck up bitch.

Congrats to the Mavs and Dirk, I'm pumped they won but now cuz of that you think you can tear down a 22 year old MVP who went through growing pains on an offensively challenged team in the conf finals???

I don't wanna waste too much time cuz clearly you are off on analyzing Rose but seriously....


Kieth Bogans didn't even average 4 ppg a game this year. Noah is clearly not talented offensively, Boozer disappeared for a majority of the playoffs, plus Noah and Booz have no energy. Then you have Deng who averages 17ppg or so but cannot create his own shot on the dribble, and doesn't score in the 4th much because of how much D he's play on the other teams best players. Beyond that Kyle Korver was downright HORRIBLE against the Heat.


Give the kid more time(22 years old) and atleast an upgrade at the 2 spot and teams like the Heat won't be able to double and triple him for 40 minutes a game.


People like you really don't understand how hard it is for 1 player to do everything offensively for his team in the playoffs.

Name 1 team in the playoffs who didn't have ATLEAST 2 offensive playmakers on their team??????

A big reason that Mavs had success against the Heat was multiple playmakers, Kidd, Barea, Dirk, and the Jet.

Derrick Rose has Bogans, Brewer, Watson???? That's what I thought.

I have repeatedly said we are discussing this with age not being a factor. In fact, I've probably posted that over 25 times.

If age is a factor, I totally agree. I personally think Rose has the highest ceiling out of any young players right now. I like Rose a lot actually. Love his work ethic and love his humility.

But the arguments people are making are not based on age. They aren't saying he's a top 5 player because of his age.

That is a totally different discussion. And the teammates thing is getting lame. Especially when Rose had so many stinkers. Of course guys disappeared. They weren't getting the damn ball. Why is your pg taking 26 shots a game over a 7 game stretch in which he averages shooting like 35% from the field??????

If you honestly think that doesn't inhibit teammates and the team you are high.

[Bigsmoke]

lol @ ****** are acting like Deron Williams is a Mr.perfect in the playoffs . :lol


"Deron Williams is better because Rose shot under 40% vs the Heat"

How about we bring up some of D-Will's flaws besides just bring up all of Rose'

Deron Williams shot 41% when being defended by Derek Fisher in 2009 and shot like 38% in 2010...the same PG that Aaron Brooks, JJ Barea, CP3 Westbrook was about to rape day in and day out... hell, even Steve Nash was killing scoring wise.

Lets not bring up Deron Williams in that Warriors series.

[Pointguard]

Defense is very much about talent. You don't play great defense without good individual defenders who know what they're doing like Bogans, Deng, Brewer, Thomas, Asik, Gibson, and Noah. Same with rebounding. You don't get to be a top 5 rebounding team without Boozer, Noah, Thomas, Asik, and Gibson. Obviously you don't realize that offense isn't the only way the game can be affected, or you just don't want to admit that the Bulls were really talented and deep.

Defense and rebounding is the application of energy, hustle and will. Who on Chicago reflected great defensive talent this year? Deng was very good but I think LA, Miami, Orlando had better defensive individual talent. Who was top ten in rebounding on Chicago? The team did a great job on the boards and defended as good as anyone. But my point is that they weren't talented as other elite teams. I never said they weren't deep or couldn't defend or rebound. They were ranked ninth before the injuries for a reason.

[Wukillabeez78]

You have no idea what you are talking about...Thomas was a shoot first PG all the way....Again...where do you guys get your info from?

You are way off. Isiah Thomas was a pass first point guard who could also score if his team needed it. He averaged over 9 assists per game for his career and had the record for most assists per game average (13.9) and most assists in a season (1123) before John Stockton broke it. He had a 4 year stretch where he was probably the best passer in the leage (even Magic wasn't on his level during this stretch) averaging 11.1, 13.9, 10.8 and 10 assists a game. Shoot first point guards don't produce numbers like this.

Could Isiah score? Obviously he could and he was one of the best scoring/penetrating point guards ever. But just because he could score and had some legendary, prolific scoring binges (and averaged over 19 points per game for his career) doesn't mean he didn't look to set up his teammates first. Isiah was the ultimate pass first point guard who could set his teammates up and pass accurately in half court sets (which is how the Pistons played in the latter 80's when they became good enough to win) or in full court fast break situations (which is how they played during his first few years in the league). Isiah is one of the best point guards in the history of the game because he was a pass first player who also had that special ability to bail out his team and take over and win the game if his teammates weren't playing well. Karl Malone and the Jazz would have won multiple championships if they had Isiah at the point instead of Stockton. Malone often disappeared or had off nights and Isiah would have been able to carry the team offensively in a way that Stockton was never able to.

I'd take Deron over Derrick at this point. Like some others have noted Rose is more of a shoot first point guard whose playmaking ability is more similar to Allen Iverson's than it is to a true set up man like an Isiah Thomas. Deron Williams is kind of like an Isiah Thomas in that he is a pass first point guard who can also score if his team needs it. Both players are still young and have a lot of work to put in before we can truly tell what kind of careers and what kind of players they are going to be...

[Pointguard]

Pointguard:

You are too big of a homer to have a legit discussion with. Rose was not a sure fire top 5 player this year. Sorry.

He was a sure fire top 8 player overall this year probably.


You can't just overlook his very poor playoff play. You know, when the games matter the most. Over 6 threes a game at 24.8%...horrible. 39.6% shooting from the field.
Absolutely horrendous 4th qtr play against the Heat.


If you trap a player other players must make you pay. You don't get it!!!
The player who is trapped is rarely asked to break the trap. Any good defensive team can stop a great player if they put their priorities on it. It's up to the other players to step up. Wow, is this new to you? I said it about 10times to you.



Nobody else stepped up? How could they? Did they ever get the ball? Did their pg ever set them up? [/quote WOW, do you understand the concept of a trap??? Its usually the third pass out of a trap that punishes the defense. That's hardly ever from the person that is trapped.

I guess the do or die game 4 was on everyone but Rose in the Heat series. Right? Boozer had 20/11/3, Noah had 6/14/6, Deng had 20/8/2.....LOL
And why was the court so open for them? The trap GUARANTEES the defense will be off balance. Miami knew the ball was better off in their hands. Miami never doubted that for one second. And please bring up their up their 4th quarter production? And come on, one game from them isn't going to beat Miami. Boozer and Noah weren't even playing in the 4th quarters for the last three games. So yeah, Rose had to take the weight.
[quote]
Rose had 23/3/6 on his usual horrendous efficiency. 1 of 9 from three and 29.6% for the game. But yea, it was on his teammates. Not to mention somehow the game still went to OT after Rose came up as small as possible in crunch time yet again. Once again, read up on how a trap works. Miami's priority was to have the rest of the team beat them.


You say Rose got trapped and that is why he played poorly. Lets say I agree. Then why is he taking 24 shots a game????? If he's getting doubled and trapped all game....and he's not making anything, why is he continuing to not pass to the open man????? I hope you realize that makes your argument worse, not better.
LOL, read above on getting out of the trap. Who are you suggesting take the shots? He wasn't trapped all the time and he took those shots. In the fourth quarter of games they didn't trap as much and just ran a random guy at Rose. Of course Rose wasn't playing with Booze and Noah much because they weren't there. Plus he was tired. Remember nobody else in the playoffs has his responsibility and he shut down Wade as good as anybody ever did in the playoffs when he guarded him. Yet you are saying he isn't part of the defense. I admit he didn't play well offensively but he had more on his plate. Wade too was exhausted guarding him as well. Wade, who demolished teams himself in the finals, was in the same boat as Rose, sobeit, with a heck of lot less responsibility.


Rose does not have to be superman to win. He has to be average man to win. The Bulls did not lose a game in the playoffs when Rose shot over 42.1%. The Bulls were a perfect 7-0. I don't think that is asking too much from your star. Rose just happened to shoot horribly in the other 9 games and it cost the Bulls a chance at the title. 7 games under 37.5% shooting out of 16?????? That won't get it done......and especially won't get it done when he's taking an average of like 26 shots in those games.
Rose lead a young team to a place that was over their heads. No shame in that. A great defensive team made it their priority to stop Rose and the Bulls were not seasoned enough to adjust or experienced enough to make good on it. That story always happens but Rose is so good everybody forgot it this time. Rose couldn't make Noah and Boozer use their heads better. Rose can't make his teammates explosive scorers. Rose can't make his teammates attack the trap or make the three pointer. That will never happen. Until teams can be punished for making it their priority to go all out on Rose the team of defense and rebounding isn't a winning team.


And whether you want to acknowledge reality or not, Rose has little to no impact on defense and rebounding for the Bulls. You haven't refuted one thing I wrote about Rose being solid on defense. If the Mavs had somebody like Rose on Wade in their first finals matchup it would have been a sweep.


His primary job is to run the offense and score. And that is exactly what let them down in the playoffs.

Which teammates does he inhibit? All of them. I keep asking you specific questions and you run away from all of them. What teammate wanted to step up? Or knew how to step up? You say defense and rebounding wins games so now it seems like that's not enough. hmmmm maybe, just MAYBE you were wrong from the beginning. Run an efficient offense for guys that can't benefit from a trap? That weren't playing when they were needed most? They were a young team that has to go thru growing pains.


He's a shoot first inefficient point guard that doesn't create many good looks for his teammates.
Name me the point guard that won as much as he? That had the year, that he did? Name me the player that had his responsibilities?

[Pointguard]

That is a totally different discussion. And the teammates thing is getting lame. Especially when Rose had so many stinkers. Of course guys disappeared. They weren't getting the damn ball.
Wow, you just don't get it.

[DMAVS41]

Wow, you just don't get it.

You don't get it actually. Why is Rose taking 22 plus shots so often if he's being doubled and trapped?

Game 4 is a perfect example of this. All of his teammates were playing well offensively yet Rose still shot 27 times. In game 5? 29 shots.

LOL. You don't get it do you. If a player is being shaded, doubled, and trapped....they should never shoot 27 plus times....unless they are on fire and their teammates are doing nothing.

Game 4? 27 shots on 29.6% shooting. :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[knicksman]

Dmavs you need to stop acting like such a stuck up bitch.

Congrats to the Mavs and Dirk, I'm pumped they won but now cuz of that you think you can tear down a 22 year old MVP who went through growing pains on an offensively challenged team in the conf finals???

I don't wanna waste too much time cuz clearly you are off on analyzing Rose but seriously....


Kieth Bogans didn't even average 4 ppg a game this year. Noah is clearly not talented offensively, Boozer disappeared for a majority of the playoffs, plus Noah and Booz have no chemisty. Then you have Deng who averages 17ppg or so but cannot create his own shot on the dribble, and doesn't score in the 4th much because of how much D he's play on the other teams best players. Beyond that Kyle Korver was downright HORRIBLE against the Heat.


Give the kid more time(22 years old) and atleast an upgrade at the 2 spot and teams like the Heat won't be able to double and triple him for 40 minutes a game.


People like you really don't understand how hard it is for 1 player to do everything offensively for his team in the playoffs.

Name 1 team in the playoffs who didn't have ATLEAST 2 offensive playmakers on their team??????

A big reason that Mavs had success against the Heat was multiple playmakers, Kidd, Barea, Dirk, and the Jet.

Derrick Rose has Bogans, Brewer, Watson???? That's what I thought.

they only have 1 because of less touches from the other players. its hard to score if your pg is dominating the ball and shooting 30 FGA LOL.

[RoseCity07]

If Derrick Rose had Deron's play making ability it wouldn't be close.

That isn't really something players learn. So Deron is probably my choice.

CP3 healthy>>All

[Dengness9]

they only have 1 because of less touches from the other players. its hard to score if your pg is dominating the ball and shooting 30 FGA LOL.

gtfo. Cute little LOL you had there.


If you don't get it by now, you won't ever get it. He needs 1 other player capable of being a creator ON HIS OWN.

Now Knicksman, name 1 other player on the Bulls roster who can create instant offense on their own.... Don't worry I'll wait.

Bogans....No
Brewer....no
Watson.... No
deng......No
Korver....No

not to mention the Bulls brought in Boozer to be the 2nd option especially for the playoffs and he failed miserably. He got plenty of touches too so don't act like that's the problem. Dude can't even stay on the court for the 4th because of his defense.


Shhhhhhhhhh.

[knicksman]

gtfo. Cute little LOL you had there.


If you don't get it by now, you won't ever get it. He needs 1 other player capable of being a creator ON HIS OWN.

Now Knicksman, name 1 other player on the Bulls roster who can create instant offense on their own.... Don't worry I'll wait.

Bogans....No
Brewer....no
Watson.... No
deng......No
Korver....No

not to mention the Bulls brought in Boozer to be the 2nd option especially for the playoffs and he failed miserably. He got plenty of touches too so don't act like that's the problem. Dude can't even stay on the court for the 4th because of his defense.


Shhhhhhhhhh.

failed miserably? or rose failed him?:lol a career 55% shooter getting only 11 FGA while the little guy shooting 35% is getting 30 FGA. Boozer is still more efficient so i dont know why rose doesnt want to give him 9 FGA. in that case, they would at least be equal so they might have a chance to win. I guess rose is really not that humble like you Bulls fans are saying.

[themurph]

You are way off. Isiah Thomas was a pass first point guard who could also score if his team needed it. He averaged over 9 assists per game for his career and had the record for most assists per game average (13.9) and most assists in a season (1123) before John Stockton broke it. He had a 4 year stretch where he was probably the best passer in the leage (even Magic wasn't on his level during this stretch) averaging 11.1, 13.9, 10.8 and 10 assists a game. Shoot first point guards don't produce numbers like this.

Could Isiah score? Obviously he could and he was one of the best scoring/penetrating point guards ever. But just because he could score and had some legendary, prolific scoring binges (and averaged over 19 points per game for his career) doesn't mean he didn't look to set up his teammates first. Isiah was the ultimate pass first point guard who could set his teammates up and pass accurately in half court sets (which is how the Pistons played in the latter 80's when they became good enough to win) or in full court fast break situations (which is how they played during his first few years in the league). Isiah is one of the best point guards in the history of the game because he was a pass first player who also had that special ability to bail out his team and take over and win the game if his teammates weren't playing well. Karl Malone and the Jazz would have won multiple championships if they had Isiah at the point instead of Stockton. Malone often disappeared or had off nights and Isiah would have been able to carry the team offensively in a way that Stockton was never able to.

I'd take Deron over Derrick at this point. Like some others have noted Rose is more of a shoot first point guard whose playmaking ability is more similar to Allen Iverson's than it is to a true set up man like an Isiah Thomas. Deron Williams is kind of like an Isiah Thomas in that he is a pass first point guard who can also score if his team needs it. Both players are still young and have a lot of work to put in before we can truly tell what kind of careers and what kind of players they are going to be...


At this point, you are embarrassing yourself....Listen, we all have our different opinions on this board...And that's a great thing, right?

But Isaiah was never a pass first PG....What Isiah was was a player who did whatever it took to win.....Hell, he led his team in scoring more than enough times...Of course Chi-Town's finest PG and the best little man of all time in the NBA could run a team...Hell, there was one year Isiah averaged 14 assists a game....But there were other years he averaged a little over 8, sometimes 9, and sometimes under 8 (7.8)...

Isiah basically was the first modern PG to earn the tag "scoring PG"...In fact, he basically became the blueprint for other scoring PG's....But let's make this one point clear...Being tagged as a scoring PG doesn't mean you can't pass the rock....Kevin Johnson was called a scoring PG...But there were seasons he averaged 10 dimes a game....

What "scoring PG" truly means is your PG can takeover a game by scoring....And he can do it at will....And that was Thomas...That was KJ, that's Chauncy Billups...Hell, even D. Wills can be called a "scoring PG"....

Really, the only pure PGs in the league today are CP3, Nash and Rondo...

[Dengness9]

failed miserably? or rose failed him?:lol a career 55% shooter getting only 11 FGA while the little guy shooting 35% is getting 30 FGA. Boozer is still more efficient so i dont know why rose doesnt want to give him 9 FGA. in that case, they would at least be equal so they might have a chance to win. I guess rose is really not that humble like you Bulls fans are saying.


So somehow you took out of this that Rose isn't humble....

You have to be an idiot to think Derrick Rose "failed" Boozer. Booz was terrible all but 2 games in the entire playoffs.

Boozer was benched by Thibs in most of the 4ths, that has nothing to do with Rose. If Boozer can't be a complete enough ball player to even stay on the court in crunch, it's obvious he is failing on his own for a number of reasons.


Nice try again man, you don't know shit about what youre trying to discuss.

And stop using Boozers career FG% like it means anything here. Boozer wasn't a 55% fg player this year in the reg season or playoffs(especially). I could just as easily bring up the fact that Rose was a damn near 50% fg shooter before this season too.

[knicksman]

So somehow you took out of this that Rose isn't humble....

You have to be an idiot to think Derrick Rose "failed" Boozer. Booz was terrible all but 2 games in the entire playoffs.

Boozer was benched by Thibs in most of the 4ths, that has nothing to do with Rose. If Boozer can't be a complete enough ball player to even stay on the court in crunch, it's obvious he is failing on his own for a number of reasons.


Nice try again man, you don't know shit about what youre trying to discuss.

And stop using Boozers career FG% like it means anything here. Boozer wasn't a 55% fg player this year in the reg season or playoffs(especially). I could just as easily bring up the fact that Rose was a damn near 50% fg shooter before this season too.

yup because being a pg is more about personality than skills. if you have unselfish personality then you are a pass first. if you have that selfish personality then you have AI. westbrook is the same as rose and hows his personality?a selfish one wanting to be the man on the team.

boozers FG% dropped because of rose. he was efficient in utah because deron gives him easy baskets while in chicago, rose wants to be the man even though his FG% is just 35% LOL. so good luck hoping for a ring coz no team has won with a selfish pg

[Ikill]

yup because being a pg is more about personality than skills. if you have unselfish personality then you are a pass first. if you have that selfish personality then you have AI. westbrook is the same as rose and hows his personality?a selfish one wanting to be the man on the team.

boozers FG% dropped because of rose. he was efficient in utah because deron gives him easy baskets while in chicago, rose wants to be the man even though his FG% is just 35% LOL. so good luck hoping for a ring coz no team has won with a selfish pg
Chris Paul is selfish all he cares about are his stats so he ends up being passive and costing his team games. Rose is not selfish cause all he cares about is his team winning so he'll do whatever it takes.

[Ikill]

If Derrick Rose had Deron's play making ability it wouldn't be close.

That isn't really something players learn. So Deron is probably my choice.

CP3 healthy>>All
healthy CP3 is a better player but Drose and Dwill are better to build around

[DMAVS41]

Chris Paul is selfish all he cares about are his stats so he ends up being passive and costing his team games. Rose is not selfish cause all he cares about is his team winning so he'll do whatever it takes.

This is the dumbest argument. I can't stand it. Rose cares about winning because he jacks up 27 shots in a game with his teammates rolling? No, that is just "me first" "selfish" play with a player that refuses to play team ball in order to win.

That was Rose in game 4 of the Heat series by the way. If he could play like a real pg, the Bulls would have won that game.

[hoop_soup]

You are way off. Isiah Thomas was a pass first point guard who could also score if his team needed it. He averaged over 9 assists per game for his career and had the record for most assists per game average (13.9) and most assists in a season (1123) before John Stockton broke it. He had a 4 year stretch where he was probably the best passer in the leage (even Magic wasn't on his level during this stretch) averaging 11.1, 13.9, 10.8 and 10 assists a game. Shoot first point guards don't produce numbers like this.

Could Isiah score? Obviously he could and he was one of the best scoring/penetrating point guards ever. But just because he could score and had some legendary, prolific scoring binges (and averaged over 19 points per game for his career) doesn't mean he didn't look to set up his teammates first. Isiah was the ultimate pass first point guard who could set his teammates up and pass accurately in half court sets (which is how the Pistons played in the latter 80's when they became good enough to win) or in full court fast break situations (which is how they played during his first few years in the league). Isiah is one of the best point guards in the history of the game because he was a pass first player who also had that special ability to bail out his team and take over and win the game if his teammates weren't playing well. Karl Malone and the Jazz would have won multiple championships if they had Isiah at the point instead of Stockton. Malone often disappeared or had off nights and Isiah would have been able to carry the team offensively in a way that Stockton was never able to.

I'd take Deron over Derrick at this point. Like some others have noted Rose is more of a shoot first point guard whose playmaking ability is more similar to Allen Iverson's than it is to a true set up man like an Isiah Thomas. Deron Williams is kind of like an Isiah Thomas in that he is a pass first point guard who can also score if his team needs it. Both players are still young and have a lot of work to put in before we can truly tell what kind of careers and what kind of players they are going to be...


I wouldn't call Deron Williams "young."He's 27 years old, for most athletes that is the start/middle of their prime years. Chris Paul is not excatly a spring chicken either, he's 26. So everyone is comparing a 22 year old to a 26 and 27 year old, think about that for a second. A 22 year old kid is already being considered a top 3 pointguard by most NBA fans, that's pretty impressive in itself.

[I.R.Beast]

If Derrick Rose had Deron's play making ability it wouldn't be close.

That isn't really something players learn. So Deron is probably my choice.

CP3 healthy>>All


Healthy Grant Hill>>>> All SF

Healthy Penny Hardaway>>>>All pgs

Healthy Yao Ming>>>>All Cs

Healthy Kobe>>>>All SGs


see what i did there?....Bottom line is he's lost a step and he was quite fine this year he just played soft thus had a crappy year and had a fools gold series against old washed up derrick fisher. Paul will most likely never be the same again...Even when he was healthy he was not better than Deron williams to begin with.

[Pointguard]

If Derrick Rose had Deron's play making ability it wouldn't be close.

That isn't really something players learn. So Deron is probably my choice.

CP3 healthy>>All
Hey Rondo wasn't considered on DWill's level in regards to play making before this year. At the beginning of the year he was the league best play maker. There is a point when it clicks for point guards in how the team plays. Nash and Stockton also took three/four years before they really got it. I recall when they were going to move DWill to the two guard after two years. So you really can't pin that down.

[Pointguard]

You don't get it actually. Why is Rose taking 22 plus shots so often if he's being doubled and trapped?

Because he had to. Plain and simple. They weren't ready for the change. Their leader had to lead them. Who are you supposing was ready to step up? Its a young team. OKC had far superior offensive talent and they had trouble adapting. And their guys can dribble. Unlike some other great talents, Rose isn't going to put the onus on his teammates. When he had the opportunity, he had to show strength and aggression because they were in unknown territory. Rose had way more responsibilty than any other player deep in the playoffs. His young team was still new to each other, the offensive system, and didn't respond well to pressure. Boozer added to the chaos as he played tentative, passive and with horrible judgement.

[DMAVS41]

Because he had to. Plain and simple. They weren't ready for the change. Their leader had to lead them. Who are you supposing was ready to step up? Its a young team. OKC had far superior offensive talent and they had trouble adapting. And their guys can dribble. Unlike some other great talents, Rose isn't going to put the onus on his teammates. When he had the opportunity, he had to show strength and aggression because they were in unknown territory. Rose had way more responsibilty than any other player deep in the playoffs. His young team was still new to each other, the offensive system, and didn't respond well to pressure. Boozer added to the chaos as he played tentative, passive and with horrible judgement.

We just view the game differently. Especially from a pg standpoint.

I watched game 4 in horror. I watched as Rose continued to jack and jack. 9 threes and 27 shots.

Don't give me the "he had to do it" line. He didn't. Certainly not in that game.

He has yet to learn the balance of when to create and when to shoot.

He will figure that out at some point...maybe as early as next year. And when he does, he'll win titles and play great. But I'm going off what I've seen so far...not potential.

[Pointguard]

failed miserably? or rose failed him?:lol a career 55% shooter getting only 11 FGA while the little guy shooting 35% is getting 30 FGA. Boozer is still more efficient so i dont know why rose doesnt want to give him 9 FGA. in that case, they would at least be equal so they might have a chance to win. I guess rose is really not that humble like you Bulls fans are saying.

Boozer wasn't playing in the 4th quarters because of poor play and poor judgement. He was playing passive, scared and without energy on top of forgetting plays - the team didn't need it and to be honest it wasn't professional, smart or helpful for the team. To give him more shots in three quarters just didn't make sense. The coach saw it like I did: Better he just not be involved.

[Pointguard]

We just view the game differently. Especially from a pg standpoint.

I watched game 4 in horror. I watched as Rose continued to jack and jack. 9 threes and 27 shots.

Who do you think was telling him to shoot? And to continue to shoot? You think Rose put that on himself? Could it have been a strategy for a must win big road game? Do you think Rose sets game strategy... on the road... in the playoffs???

[knicksman]

Boozer wasn't playing in the 4th quarters because of poor play and poor judgement. He was playing passive, scared and without energy on top of forgetting plays - the team didn't need it and to be honest it wasn't professional, smart or helpful for the team. To give him more shots in three quarters just didn't make sense. The coach saw it like I did: Better he just not be involved.

boozer is not really on rhythm because the pg is shooting 30 FG attempts on 35% shooting. between rose and boozer, id rather have boozer shoot those contested fadeaways coz i trust them more than rose's contested 3 but of course rose is the mvp and his stats will look bad if they let boozer take his touches. maybe rose would become unhappy and will not resign with them like the other free agents(howard. cp3, deron)

[Alamo]

Rose. Come on, he is 22 years old and look how much he has done already. Won MVP, made it to the ECF. Career wise, Rose will go further than Deron ever will. And everyone is saying they would take a healthy cp3 over everyone but when will we see cp3 healthy for an entire season? We don't know.

[yobore]

Rose. Come on, he is 22 years old and look how much he has done already. Won MVP, made it to the ECF. Career wise, Rose will go further than Deron ever will. And everyone is saying they would take a healthy cp3 over everyone but when will we see cp3 healthy for an entire season? We don't know.
"healthy for a whole season" implies that he's always got something different. What we mean is if he recovers specifically from the injury where he ran into the camera and the resulting surgery, which it sure looked like he was doing last season w/ 80 games and finishing strong like that.

[bizil]

having an ego is a good thing but not for 6'3 players coz it will spell disaster. he will be in the mold of iverson, marbury who because of their ego, doesnt want to pass but to shoot. the shorter you are, the less efficient you are so LOL at rose being unstoppable when among the superstars, he is the easiest to stop thats why he shoots 35% in the playoffs.

and why are you comparing a 3rd option to a 1st option. what im trying to mean here is no team has ever won a title with a score first pg as the first option

I agree that their hasn't been a team with a score first PG as a first option. But u didn't clarify that in an earlier post. But if you have a score first PG on certain teams you can still win a ring. It's just depends on the other parts. Just like Parker had in SA. And he won Finals MVP as it is anyway. There have been several teams who have had 2nd and 3rd option guys who could really be a first option guy. You see it in Miami, the old school Lakers, old school Sixers, etc. It's not about the option so much as it is that player's actual scoring capabilities and mindset. And as I said earlier guys like Magic, Isiah, Tiny, Big O, etc could score as well as anybody in the L damn near. But they were PG's first and focused on the nuances of the position.

[Dengness9]

yup because being a pg is more about personality than skills. if you have unselfish personality then you are a pass first. if you have that selfish personality then you have AI. westbrook is the same as rose and hows his personality?a selfish one wanting to be the man on the team.

boozers FG% dropped because of rose. he was efficient in utah because deron gives him easy baskets while in chicago, rose wants to be the man even though his FG% is just 35% LOL. so good luck hoping for a ring coz no team has won with a selfish pg


Hey everybody, this idiot is saying the PG position is more about personality than skills....... Seriously, what the **** are you talking about?

Btw fool, Derrick Rose is the Man on the Bulls, Russell Westbrook is not the Man on Okc, so how are their situations comparable?

Russ plays with the reigning leading scorer of the NBA, Rose plays with Kieth Bogans.

And was Rose's FG% 35%????? No .445 in the reg season and .396 in the postseason. His lowest percentages of his career yet but he is still a career 47% fg shooter. And he averaged 7.7 apg for the reg season and postseason.

Quit acting like you know what you're talking about throwing out bogus stats.


You.just.don't.get.it

have fun being a fan of the loser Knick orginization.

P.S. You can tell by my personality I would be a mediocre point guard..... See how stupid I (you) sound?

[Dengness9]

This is the dumbest argument. I can't stand it. Rose cares about winning because he jacks up 27 shots in a game with his teammates rolling? No, that is just "me first" "selfish" play with a player that refuses to play team ball in order to win.

That was Rose in game 4 of the Heat series by the way. If he could play like a real pg, the Bulls would have won that game.


This Is such a bullshit post. You don't believe the crap you write half the time.

Rose plays the game to win and he plays hard. Thibodeau is the one who has given Rose the green light to shoot and attack as much as he wants to.

You purely sound like someone who doesn't understand the construction of how this Bulls team was built. If there was one other player on the Bulls capable of taking pressure of Rose we would have seen it happen by now. The Bulls do not have this player.


Are you actually telling me you think Derrick Rose is a selfish basketball player? Once you answer "yes", it will give me all the information needed to conclude you are an idiot who like knicksman, knows nothing about which you are talking about.

The best offensive player on any team in the NBA will take the most shots on the team consistently no matter the position they play on the court. It might not be traditional but it's a new era in the NBA with PG play.

Get off your high horse cuz the Mavs are champs. I've seen how you been posting since the end of the season. You suddenly think you know about any and everything.

[DMAVS41]

This Is such a bullshit post. You don't believe the crap you write half the time.

Rose plays the game to win and he plays hard. Thibodeau is the one who has given Rose the green light to shoot and attack as much as he wants to.

You purely sound like someone who doesn't understand the construction of how this Bulls team was built. If there was one other player on the Bulls capable of taking pressure of Rose we would have seen it happen by now. The Bulls do not have this player.


Are you actually telling me you think Derrick Rose is a selfish basketball player? Once you answer "yes", it will give me all the information needed to conclude you are an idiot who like knicksman, knows nothing about which you are talking about.

The best offensive player on any team in the NBA will take the most shots on the team consistently no matter the position they play on the court. It might not be traditional but it's a new era in the NBA with PG play.

Get off your high horse cuz the Mavs are champs. I've seen how you been posting since the end of the season. You suddenly think you know about any and everything.

I don't think Rose is selfish actually. I think he can't play pg yet. I think he panics with 10 seconds on the shot clock and just jacks a three. I think he needs more time to learn the position and how to find the balance of knowing when to score and when to pass.

I don't care if he has the biggest green light of all time. There is no ****ing reason for him to shoot 27 times the way he did in game 4 with his teammates rolling. And its made even worse that he settled for 9 threes.

Is coaching partly to blame? Absolutely. You have to tell Rose to stop taking so many threes if you are the coach. I totally agree that Thibs is somewhat to blame.

However, in the future, Rose will learn this on his own and find that balance. And when he does, its going to be scary how good he will be.

That doesn't change what happened though. And what happened is a young and inexperienced guard did not find proper balance and he and his teammates suffered because of it.

[knicksman]

Hey everybody, this idiot is saying the PG position is more about personality than skills....... Seriously, what the **** are you talking about?

Btw fool, Derrick Rose is the Man on the Bulls, Russell Westbrook is not the Man on Okc, so how are their situations comparable?

Russ plays with the reigning leading scorer of the NBA, Rose plays with Kieth Bogans.

And was Rose's FG% 35%????? No .445 in the reg season and .396 in the postseason. His lowest percentages of his career yet but he is still a career 47% fg shooter. And he averaged 7.7 apg for the reg season and postseason.

Quit acting like you know what you're talking about throwing out bogus stats.


You.just.don't.get.it

have fun being a fan of the loser Knick orginization.

P.S. You can tell by my personality I would be a mediocre point guard..... See how stupid I (you) sound?

trying to be the man and being the man is really the same. its just westbrook didnt succeed of being the man. looks like youre the idiot here:lol

he will shoot 35% if hes not given those 20+ free throws. Its just that he got bailed out by the refs thus saving him from increased FG attempts. i really dont know now whos the idiot between the two of us. it seems you dont have any IQ whatsoever.

i believe that being a PG is also about having the personality. what differentiate cp3, nash,deron to iverson, marbury is that the former doesnt have huge egos thats why they pass more than they shoot while marbury or iverson have egos like westbrook. the same with rose, he has a big man who had a career 55% FG but he doesnt use it because he wants to be the man.

sorry to hurt your feelings man but you have a marbury(iverson)type of player and we all know that no team has won with those kind of players so good luck with having the best record but always losing at the end. oh btw your team has only won 1 game against the heat despite having the best record. LOL

[Pointguard]

I don't think Rose is selfish actually. I think he can't play pg yet. I think he panics with 10 seconds on the shot clock and just jacks a three. I think he needs more time to learn the position and how to find the balance of knowing when to score and when to pass.

I don't care if he has the biggest green light of all time. There is no ****ing reason for him to shoot 27 times the way he did in game 4 with his teammates rolling. And its made even worse that he settled for 9 threes.

Is coaching partly to blame? Absolutely. You have to tell Rose to stop taking so many threes if you are the coach. I totally agree that Thibs is somewhat to blame.

However, in the future, Rose will learn this on his own and find that balance. And when he does, its going to be scary how good he will be.

That doesn't change what happened though. And what happened is a young and inexperienced guard did not find proper balance and he and his teammates suffered because of it.


This is why I put the questions to you. The game strategy BY THIBES was for Rose to take a lot of threes and to push the issue because nobody else stepped up adequately in the previous two games, Thibes options were loose the game with guys not doing their end of the work or go with your leader whom he believes was due. This wasn't Rose's call. The PRIMARY STRATEGY of every playoff game is always in the hands of the coach. A point guard uses choices and options as to when to deviate but he should stick to the first strategy until told otherwise. Example: Magic was told to push the ball everytime against Boston because they were tiring. Magic see Boston get back, he goes to plan B which is Post ball to Worthy or Kareem. Plan B is a strength and viable option.

I asked you about seven times here who WANTED to be plan B in the Bulls situation. Who was going to be the viable option? Boozer was brought in for that and he abandoned post. When nobody else steps up, give it to your leader and hope that they gain inspiration thru him. Rose had more on his plate than any other player in the playoffs by far on top of shutting down one of the best playoffs performers ever. Rose doesn't have a lot of experience and neither did his players. But they went down with the guy that had the spirit to fight. It was the right way. Ruin the young teams confidence and the whole year is lost. If Rose had guys hitting threes like they were doing in Dallas, the floor opens up and he goes to the basket moreso than any other player in the game. He didn't have that convience.