What God says to Atheists: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools!" [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

Bladers

06-28-2011, 10:59 AM

Here is an official statement from God himself concerning atheists:

Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. For It is written "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent." So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world’s brilliant debaters? God has made the wisdom of this world look foolish. Since God in his wisdom saw to it that the world would never know him through human wisdom, he has used our foolish preaching to save those who believe.

This foolish plan of God is wiser than the wisest of human plans, and God’s weakness is stronger than the greatest of human strength.

God chose things the world considers foolish in order to shame those who think they are wise. And he chose things that are powerless to shame those who are powerful. God chose things despised by the world, things counted as nothing at all, and used them to bring to nothing what the world considers important. As a result, no one can ever boast in the presence of God.

Source: (1 Corinthians 1 | Romans 1:22)

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 12:15 PM

[QUOTE=Bladers]Here is an official statement from God himself concerning atheists:

[SIZE="2"]Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools. For It is written "I will destroy the wisdom of the wise and discard the intelligence of the intelligent." So where does this leave the philosophers, the scholars, and the world

Ol Dirty Bastard

06-28-2011, 12:21 PM

http://i.imgur.com/JIupq.png

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 12:29 PM

he chose to make religion seem foolish to the wise because they're not wise? and powerless so bein powerful in life is shameful? Sounds like a bunch of crap made up by a guy who wasn't good at anything...

St. Paul is alluding to the way Jesus explained how one comes to know God: the strong shall become weak, the weak strong. It's paradoxical on the surface but quite meaningful if you dig deeper.

OmniStrife

06-28-2011, 12:31 PM

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 12:35 PM

St. Paul is alluding to the way Jesus explained how one comes to know God: the strong shall become weak, the weak strong. It's paradoxical on the surface but quite meaningful if you dig deeper.

Diggin deeper as an atheist ya just come to the realisation that ya can't stop these religious folk believing what they believe but ya certainly find it all to seem like a crock of shit.... I've never heard an argument made by someone from the all knowing creator religions that held any water in my mind and I doubt I ever will...

thatoneblackguy

06-28-2011, 12:38 PM

pics or it didn't happen

Gunnin4HoLeS

06-28-2011, 12:43 PM

I truly believe in God, to much sh.it has happened in my life to be mere coincedences.. things dont just happen for no reason.. just my opinion.

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 12:44 PM

I truly believe in God, to much sh.it has happened in my life to be mere coincedences.. things dont just happen for no reason.. just my opinion.

Or they do... Just my opinion.

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 12:45 PM

So there's a sky grandpa and he gets bored so he makes a universe in 6 days then he gets tired so he rests on the 7th.
He makes people and tells em what fruit they can and can't eat...
He knows the future yet he gets pissed when they eat it?
Oh... he gets pissed at a talking snake too while he's at it.

Cool story bro.

No chance any of these stories could be metaphoric? Used maybe to help teach morality to the tribes of Israel thousands of years ago? People who could neither read nor write but could readily understand such tales and perhaps derive a greater meaning/way of life from them?

Kungfro

06-28-2011, 12:51 PM

Oh boy, religion thread on ish. These are always fun.

OmniStrife

06-28-2011, 12:53 PM

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 12:55 PM

No chance any of these stories could be metaphoric? Used maybe to help teach morality to the tribes of Israel thousands of years ago? People who could neither read nor write but could readily understand such tales and perhaps derive a greater meaning/way of life from them?

So they're like the dream time stories of the aboriginal people? they're stories made up to explain things in a cool way? Saying something is metaphoric doesn't make the interpretations given any more real.

Dolphin

06-28-2011, 12:56 PM

How dare you belittle the true words of God!?!? :mad:

This post would be more valid if it wasn't an accepted fact that many denominations openly claim that what is in the Bible is not 100% factual. lol

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 12:57 PM

Oh boy, religion thread on ish. These are always fun.

My first. Exciting :D

OmniStrife

06-28-2011, 12:58 PM

http://i.imgur.com/cb8bs.jpg

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 12:59 PM

This post would be more valid if it wasn't an accepted fact that many denominations openly claim that what is in the Bible is not 100% factual. lol

yep, when things are impossible they need something to hide behind.

OmniStrife

06-28-2011, 01:02 PM

yep, when things are impossible they need something to hide behind.
God works in mysterious ways? :roll:

Dolphin

06-28-2011, 01:02 PM

yep, when things are impossible they need something to hide behind.

What does this have to do with omni coming off as being quite ignorant of religions in general? lol

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 01:04 PM

So they're like the dream time stories of the aboriginal people? they're stories made up to explain things in a cool way? Saying something is metaphoric doesn't make the interpretations given any more real.

I don't understand. Are you saying that it makes the interpretations less real?

Dolphin

06-28-2011, 01:05 PM

I don't understand. Are you saying that it makes the interpretations less real?

I think we have a case here of two non-believers trying to act smart and funny, but failing miserably at it. lol

Makes the rest of us who don't believe look like idiots.:facepalm

LJJ

06-28-2011, 01:09 PM

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 01:10 PM

I don't understand. Are you saying that it makes the interpretations less real?

I didn't say that I just said them being metephoric doesn't make religion any more feasible.

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 01:11 PM

I think we have a case here of two non-believers trying to act smart and funny, but failing miserably at it. lol

Makes the rest of us who don't believe look like idiots.:facepalm

I always think it's funny that if I say anything about religion posters think I'm trying to defend said religion or even worse convert them. For me it's a very personal thing and what others choose to believe or not believe is their business.

The complete dismissal of anything scholarly in the world's religions by cocksure teenage basketball fans is amusing though.

Dolphin

06-28-2011, 01:17 PM

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 01:19 PM

I always think it's funny that if I say anything about religion posters think I'm trying to defend said religion or even worse convert them. For me it's a very personal thing and what others choose to believe or not believe is their business.

The complete dismissal of anything scholarly in the world's religions by cocksure teenage basketball fans is amusing though.

There may well be a creator I don't see how this could be proven or disproven, but I do not believe in man made religions. I found this argument in another religion ISH thread. This logically makes sense to me....

i might believe in some super unknown power who created all of this, but i just happen to reject all the religious explanations given to us to date because all religions are self-serving to only mankind.

and if you think about it, religion is pretty much about living with certain rules in life and that we will be judged altogether at the end. but if there is an all-greater being, i don't even know if he really gives a shit on how we live because we're so really so insignificant relative to EVERYTHING ELSE. maybe our existence is just part of the natural process that doesn't even have much meaning. but of course, we don't want to believe that because that's not interesting to us as humans.

and if you look at our total existence on this whole universe and compare it to everything else (space and time), we are so just small... almost to the point of nothing.

if you believe in the big bang, then everything was created 13-14 billion years ago, and our solar system was only formed 4.5 billion years ago. so look at our entire existence of mankind. we haven't been around for that long compared to the entire history of the universe. our existence maybe only represents 0.00001% of the entire time span since the universe was created. there were billions of other creatures before us. and there'll probably be billions of other life forms when we are gone, yet right now, at this moment, we only make ourselves believe that everything that was created till this point was simply created for us.

and it's not just time, but even space. think about our whole existence in terms of size because our planet is only a small ass dot in the entire universe. there are billions of other planets in the entire milky way, yet we only focus in believing a god that only gives a sh!t about us and our little activities right here on tiny earth when we don't even know what giant worlds may exist light years away.

so relative to everything else, our whole existence is only a speckle of time and space to everything. yet somehow, we humans are so self-centered to imagine that everything that was made before us as well as all around us was to only serve our own mankind agenda as it fits us. we taught ourselves that we have to live a certain way because that's only how harmony would be achieved, yet we ignore all balance of harmonies for other things, places, and time. there's soooo much more out there than just our insignificant existence.

and it's kinda funny we make up imaginary rules like this great all-knowing being really gives a sh!t if we choose to do things like have sex before marriage, etc... all this stuff just seems so trivial in the whole scheme of things. i mean, does our insignificant activities really matter much at all in relation to big picture? maybe folks should just start living their lives instead of focusing on how to be accordingly through religion. we're all a natural process.

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 01:22 PM

So the scholars and the philosophers, the people to whom we owe virtually every material and mental comfort we have in the actual living world and have done so many great things for the living people of the world are going to "look foolish" .

Just sounds like your typical religious dogma. No matter how much good or how much bad your actions, you are infallibly good as long as you prescribe to their specific doctrine and infallibly evil as long as you don't.

That's an interesting interpretation. A little too simplistic for my tastes. I kind of view St. Paul's letters as an attempt to form a universal church among the diverse populations of the Gentiles.

St. Paul's Epistles were not deliberate treatises and systematic expositions of Christian theology. They were not something studied and literary. They were simple letters, pastoral and not personal, written on a specific occasion and to a particular body of converts. They were suggestions in regard to local difficulties, or words of counsel, encouragement or consolation.

They were supplementary to the ordinary teaching, and he does not dwell in them on anything that is not a matter of controversy or difficulty. Hence, they were not called forth by any inward purpose or necessity on the part of the Apostle to formulate his thought, but each of them was written in response to particular conditions in the community to which it was addressed. And the contents and form are often due to the Apostle's vivid realization of the situation to which he is addressing himself.

Gunnin4HoLeS

06-28-2011, 01:24 PM

Or they do... Just my opinion.
if you choose to think like that then what will ever surprise you..

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 01:31 PM

if you choose to think like that then what will ever surprise you..

Qualifying something as fate or coincidence doesn't change the ability to be surprised by it does it?

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 01:43 PM

I think we have a case here of two non-believers trying to act smart and funny, but failing miserably at it. lol

Makes the rest of us who don't believe look like idiots.:facepalm

So I'm not smart and funny? I thought I was... :(

Dolphin

06-28-2011, 01:46 PM

So I'm not smart and funny? I thought I was... :(

Please stop posting.....:facepalm

lol

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 01:54 PM

Please stop posting.....:facepalm

lol

I don't wanna... This after I just talked up your species in another thread.

Dolphin

06-28-2011, 02:10 PM

I don't wanna... This after I just talked up your species in another thread.

Using attempted humor to deflect your lack of intelligence. lol

Stuckey

06-28-2011, 02:11 PM

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 02:18 PM

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 02:24 PM

Using attempted humor to deflect your lack of intelligence. lol

Using ur lack of humour to reflect ur general knob-headedness.

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 02:28 PM

Using attempted humor to deflect your lack of intelligence. lol

Your definition of intelligence is knowledge of religious texts? Well yes I'm a moron in your definition and I wouldn't claim otherwise.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 02:33 PM

God works in mysterious ways? :roll:

Meaning Powerful...
So Powerful its Difficult or impossible to understand or explain.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 02:34 PM

Bladers

06-28-2011, 02:41 PM

i think god in the jerusalem religion is a complete abomination to what god might actually be

my definition of god is just the inner self, it doesnt have to be an external entity that sits around all day and judges ppl and punish ppl for a lack of faith

i do believe we are judged when after we die, but it's we that judge ourselves, at this stage, i might as well believe in a savior cause i've done some horrific shi in my life time

what scares me more than hell, is reincarnation

i have a question for christians, if the devil will some day get defeated by god, doesnt that mean everyone else in hell gets into heaven? therefore isn't hell a temporal place? and why the f does the devil not get punished in hell and gets to run the place?

At the last day, Hell and Death and everyone in them are brought to be judged before God. Then those whose name are not in the book of Life are get cast into the Lake of Fire. Hell is temporal, the lake of fire is eternal. By the way, you did not create yourself, so you don't have authority to judge your own deeds.

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

(Revelation 20)

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 02:49 PM

At the last day, Hell and Death and everyone in them get cast into the Lake of Fire. Hell is temporal, the lake of fire is eternal. By the way, you did not create yourself, so you don't have authority to judge the your own deed.

"And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.

And I saw a great white throne, and him that sat on it, from whose face the earth and the heaven fled away; and there was found no place for them.

And I saw the dead, small and great, stand before God; and the books were opened: and another book was opened, which is the book of life: and the dead were judged out of those things which were written in the books, according to their works.

And the sea gave up the dead which were in it; and death and hell delivered up the dead which were in them: and they were judged every man according to their works.

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire."

(Revelation 20)

Of course you gotta take into account that St. John wrote Revelation while in exile on a deserted island, probably hallucinating his balls off.:lol

Not to discredit it but the apocalyptic parts of the bible are the ones I like the least. I guess like the OT they are there as lessons in morality but I'm much more comfortable worrying about the here and now than how I'm gonna fight the 4 headed beast.

The earth will end some day, even atheists have to agree on that. How that will happen (supernova, nuclear holocaust) no one really knows. I think the message of Revelation is that it might be a good idea to have your spiritual ducks in a row ahead of time.

Jackass18

06-28-2011, 02:54 PM

I've never seen anything out of organized religion that made me think it's anything other than man-made.

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 02:58 PM

I've never seen anything out of organized religion that made me think it's anything other than man-made.

And you would be correct in that assumption.

Dolphin

06-28-2011, 02:59 PM

Your definition of intelligence is knowledge of religious texts? Well yes I'm a moron in your definition and I wouldn't claim otherwise.

I will admit, you are making me laugh.

OmniStrife

06-28-2011, 03:01 PM

I've never seen anything out of organized religion that made me think it's anything other than man-made.
If religious people could be reasoned with or had some critical thought, all debates would end at this.

However if they were critical of thought they wouldn't be religious in the 1st place now would they?

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 03:05 PM

I will admit, you are making me laugh.

:banana: :banana:

Is He Ill

06-28-2011, 03:11 PM

God made me this way, I can't help it.

Ol Dirty Bastard

06-28-2011, 03:13 PM

http://i.imgur.com/Xmitl.png
http://i.imgur.com/GRvrh.png
http://i.imgur.com/KZTgL.png
http://i.imgur.com/WJ2vU.jpg

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 03:19 PM

If religious people could be reasoned with or had some critical thought, all debates would end at this.

However if they were critical of thought they wouldn't be religious in the 1st place now would they?

You can't be religious and critical of thought at the same time? Really?

Bladers

06-28-2011, 03:22 PM

Of course you gotta take into account that St. John wrote Revelation while in exile on a deserted island, probably hallucinating his balls off.:lol

Not to discredit it but the apocalyptic parts of the bible are the ones I like the least. I guess like the OT they are there as lessons in morality but I'm much more comfortable worrying about the here and now than how I'm gonna fight the 4 headed beast.

The earth will end some day, even atheists have to agree on that. How that will happen (supernova, nuclear holocaust) no one really knows. I think the message of Revelation is that it might be a good idea to have your spiritual ducks in a row ahead of time.

God doesn't care about what you like or dislike about his word.
Its his word and its 100% literal and real. God is not in the business of metaphors.

Jesus himself said, not one comma or word from the bible shall no wise pass away till all be fulfilled.

He said it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than one comma in his word to fail.

Beware my brother:

"And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 03:22 PM

You can't be religious and critical of thought at the same time? Really?

I can fail at being funny but make the same guy laugh that told me I failed, so I guess anything is possible.

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 03:26 PM

[QUOTE=Bladers]God doesn't care about what you like or dislike about his word.
Its his word and its 100% literal and real. God is not in the business of metaphors.

Jesus himself said, not one comma or word from the bible shall no wise pass away till all be fulfilled.

He said it is easier for heaven and earth to pass away than one comma in his word to fail.

Beware my brother:

"And I solemnly declare to everyone who hears the words of prophecy written in this book: If anyone adds anything to what is written here, God will add to that person the plagues described in this book. 19 And if anyone removes any of the words from this book of prophecy, God will remove that person

OmniStrife

06-28-2011, 03:39 PM

You can't be religious and critical of thought at the same time? Really?
Well sure you can, but to a certain extent in my opinion.
Because of faith being the complete opposite definition of critical thought...
As in accepting a certain thing with complete confidence as truth when no real evidence is present, that is faith, that is the opposite of critical thought.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 03:39 PM

I may be talkin out my ass here but didn't a bunch of stuff get removed to make new somethin somethins? so those guys are goners too? Just throws out plagues coz someone corrected his grammar? This god friend of urs is soundin like a real ass to me, if someone that much of an asshole had that much power we'd prolly all be dead already...

WTHeck are you talking about? You got to be abit more descriptive than that ya know.

And yes, you are talking out of your ass, its nice that you acknowledge that. Didn't know why you bothered saying it anyways.:rolleyes:

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 03:41 PM

Well sure you can, but to a certain extent in my opinion.
Because of faith being the complete opposite definition of critical thought...
As in accepting a certain thing with complete confidence as truth when no real evidence is present, that is faith, that is the opposite of critical thought.

Yeah you're right to an extent. But just because someone has a faith it doesn't necessarily mean that they don't view other things with a critical eye or that they don't question their own faith from time to time.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 03:41 PM

Well sure you can, but to a certain extent in my opinion.
Because of faith being the complete opposite definition of critical thought...
As in accepting a certain thing with complete confidence as truth when no real evidence is present, that is faith, that is the opposite of critical thought.

Omnistrife. Are you saying religion, ie: Christianity is based on faith?

OmniStrife

06-28-2011, 03:45 PM

Omnistrife. Are you saying religion, ie: Christianity is based on faith?
Most of them are, all Abrahamic religions most certainly are; as in taking written scripture as the word of the divine and as historical fact.

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 03:46 PM

WTHeck are you talking about? You got to be abit more descriptive than that ya know.

And yes, you are talking out of your ass, its nice that you acknowledge that. Didn't know why you bothered saying it anyways.:rolleyes:

Thought they combined several books into 1? did they not leave anythin out? Or again i may be talkin out my ass.

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 03:47 PM

Most of them are, all Abrahamic religions most certainly are; as in taking written scripture as the word of the divine and as historical fact.

Is that u in that picture, coz I dunno why but I wanna punch that guy...

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 03:48 PM

God doesn't care about what you like or dislike about his word.
Its his word and its 100% literal and real. God is not in the business of metaphors.

Jesus himself said, not one comma or word from the bible shall no wise pass away till all be fulfilled.

Okay here's where you lose me. No way the bible is to be taken literally. First off, it wasn't even written down for many generations, just passed down orally. And when it was finally written down it was written by men, translated a bunch of times and copied by hand. No way it can be taken as the literal word of God.

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 03:49 PM

Bladers

06-28-2011, 03:51 PM

Most of them are, all Abrahamic religions most certainly are; as in taking written scripture as the word of the divine and as historical fact.

So basically Christians don't have proof that God actually exists?

Then please tell me is atheism based on faith too?

Remember: Faith means "belief that is not based on proof"

OmniStrife

06-28-2011, 03:51 PM

OmniStrife

06-28-2011, 03:52 PM

So basically Christians don't have proof that God actually exists?

Then please tell me is atheism based on faith too?

Remember: Faith means "belief that is not based on proof"
Atheism is a lack of faith in a God, any god.

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 03:52 PM

So basically Christians don't have proof that God actually exists?

Then please tell me is atheism based on faith too?

Remember: Faith means "belief that is not based on proof"

So Atheism is anti-god...

Whats the word form anti-religion than?

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 03:53 PM

Thats kinda what I was sayin...

I agree. There are even different versions of the bible. For example the Catholic bible that I'm familiar with has several books that aren't in the Protestant bible.

Probably means I'm going to hell.:D

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 03:54 PM

Well, when Christendom had the upper hand in authority, not too many centuries ago, you'd hang for such words as a heretic.

For sure.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 03:54 PM

Okay here's where you lose me. No way the bible is to be taken literally. First off, it wasn't even written down for many generations, just passed down orally. And when it was finally written down it was written by men, translated a bunch of times and copied by hand. No way it can be taken as the literal word of God.

It is the literral word of God, and no it was written down for many generations.
And wasn't just passed down orally. Get your facts straight.

Its been translated from Hebrew to English... Sure but what book hasn't been?
That doesn't change the fact it is God's words.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God!

OmniStrife

06-28-2011, 03:55 PM

So Atheism is anti-god...

Whats the word form anti-religion than?
Atheism is not anti-god.
Atheism is the lack of belief in a god.

As is baldness a lack of hair and not an anti-hair movement. :D

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 03:56 PM

I agree. There are even different versions of the bible. For example the Catholic bible that I'm familiar with has several books that aren't in the Protestant bible.

Probably means I'm going to hell.:D

See everyones going to hell, ever spilt somethin on a bible page? ur adding to the words of god...brimstone..

OmniStrife

06-28-2011, 03:57 PM

Bladers

06-28-2011, 03:57 PM

Atheism is a lack of faith in a God, any god.

Nope, Atheism is the belief that there is no God.

In a narrower sense, atheism is specifically the position that there are no deities.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

If you ask any atheist they will tell you, there is no God.

So please tell me what is their statement based on, faith or proof?

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 03:59 PM

It is the literral word of God, and no it was written down for many generations.
And wasn't just passed down orally. Get your facts straight.

Its been translated from Hebrew to English... Sure but what book hasn't been?
That doesn't change the fact it is God's words.

All scripture is given by inspiration of God!

Um...no.

Divine inspiration
Contrary to popular belief the Bible was not written by God whispering into the ears of the human authors to write what he wanted written, but rather the Scriptures are inspired by God. The Holy Spirit guided the authors to be moved in such a way that their writings were of God.

Just as we participate in God's ongoing creation (procreation) we also had a part in creating the Scriptures. God and his people have always worked side by side (Mary to bear Jesus, we create human life, the Scriptures, the prophets brought the message of God to Israel). The message that God wants conveyed is contained in the Scriptures, but the way it is conveyed was left up to the specific authors.

The Bible is the written account of the human experience with God. Many parts of the Bible are oral tradition that was written down. Most people were illiterate and relied much more on their memories to pass on traditions and stories. Oral tradition was the norm long before writing and reading was popular.

Historical context
The Bible was given to us by the Holy Spirit as discerned by the early bishops of the Catholic Church. There was no Bible for the first 350 years of Christianity. The first official list of Scriptures was done in 393 at the Council of Hippo, then again in Carthage in 397 and 419. The Church did not infallibly define these books until the Council of Trent, when it was called into question by the Reformers, in 1556.

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 04:00 PM

Atheism is not anti-god.
Atheism is the lack of belief in a god.

As is baldness a lack of hair and not an anti-hair movement. :D

theism aparrently means god and the a is for anti... What i read before.

CLE[216]

06-28-2011, 04:00 PM

Nope, Atheism is the belief that there is no God.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atheism

If you ask any atheist they will tell you, there is no God.

So please tell me what is their statement based on, faith or proof?

Atheism is the lack of belief in a god. The burden of proof lies with those claiming there is a god, not the other way around. Basically, you believe in a god, so it is up to you to prove it or stfu.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 04:02 PM

Thought they combined several books into 1? did they not leave anythin out? Or again i may be talkin out my ass.

You mean the books of the bible?

Bladers

06-28-2011, 04:09 PM

Um...no.

I perceive you are a catholic, therefore you are already in error.
Secondly, stop posting bs or actually put the links on what you are saying so I can properly expose it.

first of all, the person you have been quoting here and all through this thread is wrong. I wonder why u refrain from posting his name and his full articles and links.

But he is wrong and have been wrong.

The scripture wasn't just passed down orally.
and secondly Jesus referred the scripture as the WORD of GOD that cannot fail or pass away till all be full-filled.

He even said that heaven or earth can pass away but nothing from the law shall pass.

Either he is a liar or the guy you post and his heretical beliefs are wrong.
It seems like you have been brain-washed by whoever he is.

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 04:11 PM

']Atheism is the lack of belief in a god. The burden of proof lies with those claiming there is a god, not the other way around. Basically, you believe in a god, so it is up to you to prove it or stfu.

I agree, if you believe in something that can't be proven by the scope of humanity that you yourself belong to, than I think there is more 'burden of proof' on you than someone that doesn't believe in something that can't be proven/disproven by the sect of life which you belong too. Atheist don't have the burden of following religious beliefs aswell as man-made law that religious folk do. I'm quite sure this will be rebuttaled but supposed burdens we have as non-religious, like living life with no hope for an afterlife or that religious beliefs help ease burdens. I'm kinda arguing against myself now, so I guess noone can really win if I'm arguing with myself now....

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 04:12 PM

I perceive you are a catholic, therefore you are already in error.

I am Catholic, yes. Shoot me.

Dolphin

06-28-2011, 04:13 PM

I can fail at being funny but make the same guy laugh that told me I failed, so I guess anything is possible.

The difference between laughing at humor and laughing at how ridiculous someone or something is.

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 04:13 PM

I perceive you are a catholic, therefore you are already in error.
Secondly, stop posting bs or actually put the links on what you are saying so I can properly expose it.

first of all, the person you have been quoting here and all through this thread is wrong. I wonder why u refrain from posting his name and his full articles and links.

But he is wrong and have been wrong.

The scripture wasn't just passed down orally.
and secondly Jesus referred the scripture as the WORD of GOD that cannot fail or pass away till all be full-filled.

He even said that heaven or earth can pass away but nothing from the law shall pass.

Either he is a liar or the guy you post and his heretical beliefs are wrong.
It seems like you have been brain-washed by whoever he is.

Or the guy who wrote the bible was a fiction novelist with crazy ideas and a lot of time on his hands that got taken too serious...

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 04:14 PM

The difference between laughing at humor and laughing at how ridiculous someone or something is.

Dolphins can't type man...

Bladers

06-28-2011, 04:15 PM

I am Catholic, yes. Shoot me.

By the way, here are the things that are right and wrong in the quote.

Divine inspiration
Contrary to popular belief the Bible was not written by God whispering into the ears of the human authors to write what he wanted written, but rather the Scriptures are inspired by God. The Holy Spirit guided the authors to be moved in such a way that their writings were of God.

Just as we participate in God's ongoing creation (procreation) we also had a part in creating the Scriptures. God and his people have always worked side by side (Mary to bear Jesus, we create human life, the Scriptures, the prophets brought the message of God to Israel). The message that God wants conveyed is contained in the Scriptures, but the way it is conveyed was left up to the specific authors.

The Bible is the written account of the human experience with God. Many parts of the Bible are oral tradition that was written down. Most people were illiterate and relied much more on their memories to pass on traditions and stories. Oral tradition was the norm long before writing and reading was popular.

Historical context
The Bible was given to us by the Holy Spirit as discerned by the early bishops of the Catholic Church. There was no Bible for the first 350 years of Christianity. The first official list of Scriptures was done in 393 at the Council of Hippo, then again in Carthage in 397 and 419. The Church did not infallibly define these books until the Council of Trent, when it was called into question by the Reformers, in 1556.

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 04:15 PM

Secondly, stop posting bs or actually put the links on what you are saying so I can properly expose it.
http://www.aboutcatholics.com/faith_beliefs/how_bible_written_created/

Expose away. This should be good.

Dolphin

06-28-2011, 04:15 PM

[IMG]http://i.imgur.com/WJ2vU.jpg

What's with the ignorance today?

I can't be the only non-religious person here rolling my eyes at posts like this. lol

Dolphins can't type man...

"My name is Hittin_shots, I can't argue anything since I've already admitted to not knowing shit about the topic at hand.....so I'm gonna make stupid remark after stupid remark in hopes Dolphin gets all upset so I can then look down on him for getting upset over said stupid remarks, which in turn will make me feel pretty good about myself."

lol

KeylessEntry

06-28-2011, 04:16 PM

hopefully he is just a troll

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 04:18 PM

What's with the ignorance today?

I can't be the only non-religious person here rolling my eyes at posts like this. lol

Prolly not many people reading it, some of those are religious, ones me and rolling your eyes at the computer screens kinda weird. So I'd say theres a good chance your the only one.

LJJ

06-28-2011, 04:19 PM

What's with the ignorance today?

I can't be the only non-religious person here rolling my eyes at posts like this. lol

Naw. The atheism trolling can be quite obnoxious.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 04:21 PM

http://www.aboutcatholics.com/faith_beliefs/how_bible_written_created/

Expose away. This should be good.

catholics... where should I start? The fact you are getting your information from a catholics website and getting spoon fed rubbish instead of studying the bible yourself and let God teach you his word?

Or the fact of immorality and sexual abuse in the catholic church?

Or the idol worship and worship of mary?

Or the belief that mary was not sinful?

Or the doctrine that we can pray to mary and the saints.

Or the doctrine of purgatory?

and more more...

Hmm... Where should I start? :violin:

Dolphin

06-28-2011, 04:22 PM

Prolly not many people reading it, some of those are religious, ones me and rolling your eyes at the computer screens kinda weird. So I'd say theres a good chance your the only one.

I'd ask you to type this over again so I could understand what you just posted....but that would be asking for trouble I think....

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 04:23 PM

What's with the ignorance today?

I can't be the only non-religious person here rolling my eyes at posts like this. lol

"My name is Hittin_shots, I can't argue anything since I've already admitted to not knowing shit about the topic at hand.....so I'm gonna make stupid remark after stupid remark in hopes Dolphin gets all upset so I can then look down on him for getting upset over said stupid remarks, which in turn will make me feel pretty good about myself."

lol

He's onto me.:roll:

But I always feel good about myself anyway, I'm a great person.

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 04:24 PM

I'd ask you to type this over again so I could understand what you just posted....but that would be asking for trouble I think....

means I singled out the rolling of the eyes and said it wasn't likely someone(not religious also) was rolling their eyes at it... Pretty simple.

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 04:27 PM

catholics... where should I start? The fact you are getting your information from a catholics website and getting spoon fed rubbish instead of studying the bible yourself and let God teach you his word?

Or the fact of immorality and sexual abuse in the catholic church?

Or the idol worship and worship of mary?

Or the belief that mary was not sinful?

Or the doctrine that we can pray to mary and the saints.

Or the doctrine of purgatory?

and more more...

Hmm... Where should I start? :violin:

So your church is perfect?

Dolphin

06-28-2011, 04:28 PM

He's onto me.:roll:

"I can't come off as stupid if I act like I don't care and am just playing around with him."

This is text book for dumb people trying to hide their stupidity.

means I singled out the rolling of the eyes and said it wasn't likely someone(not religious also) was rolling their eyes at it... Pretty simple.

Someone agreed with me the post after mine....lol

Bladers

06-28-2011, 04:41 PM

So your church is perfect?

That has nothing to do with perfect. It has every thing to do with the doctrines of devils and heresy.

It heresy to say Mary was sinless when the Bible tells us all have sinned and fall short, when Mary herself called him her savior.

The immaculate conception is a demonic doctrine.

God said clearly in his word, Thou shall not worship any idols.
Yet the catholic church says you can do so.
They tell you to pray to & worship mary, and to pray to the other saints.

Where is that in the bible?

That's pure heresy and can damn someone to hell.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

(1 Cor 6)

"Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."

(Romans 1)

rufuspaul

06-28-2011, 04:49 PM

That has nothing to do with perfect. It has every thing to do with the doctrines of devils and heresy.

It heresy to say Mary was sinless when the Bible tells us all have sinned and fall short, when Mary herself called him her savior.

The immaculate conception is a demonic doctrine.

God said clearly in his word, Thou shall not worship any idols.
Yet the catholic church says you can do so.
They tell you to pray to & worship mary, and to pray to the other saints.

Where is that in the bible?

That's pure heresy and can damn someone to hell.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

(1 Cor 6)

"Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."

(Romans 1)

You sure know your Catholicism. That's me and RBP in a nutshell: idol worshiping heretics who love to be molested by priests. :rolleyes:

You still haven't told me what cult you're following. Just the same I'll stick to my 2000 year old one first headed by St. Peter. You ever hear of him?

Hittin_Shots

06-28-2011, 04:51 PM

"I can't come off as stupid if I act like I don't care and am just playing around with him."

This is text book for dumb people trying to hide their stupidity.

Someone agreed with me the post after mine....lol

I doubt they rolled their eyes, and what is this text book for dumb ppl? is it those for dummies books, coz theyre written by experts.

Dolphin

06-28-2011, 05:23 PM

I doubt they rolled their eyes, and what is this text book for dumb ppl? is it those for dummies books, coz theyre written by experts.

"I think I will try the post something stupid to make me look like the one who's taking this lightly, which ultimately makes me look cooler angle one more time."

Purrrrrrrr

Bladers

06-28-2011, 05:33 PM

You sure know your Catholicism. That's me and RBP in a nutshell: idol worshiping heretics who love to be molested by priests. :rolleyes:

You still haven't told me what cult you're following. Just the same I'll stick to my 2000 year old one first headed by St. Peter. You ever hear of him?

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/idolatry-mary_worship.jpg

You stick to your idol worship of mary and peter.
I will stick to worshiping Jesus.

Quizno

06-28-2011, 05:48 PM

wow bladers, excellent use of sources when deciding what is factual and what isn't. you must be the ultimate authority regarding this stuff. i'm just going to take a leap of faith and assume that everything you say is true without you providing any actual evidence for anything at all

that reminds me of something..

tpols

06-28-2011, 05:55 PM

That has nothing to do with perfect. It has every thing to do with the doctrines of devils and heresy.

It heresy to say Mary was sinless when the Bible tells us all have sinned and fall short, when Mary herself called him her savior.

The immaculate conception is a demonic doctrine.

God said clearly in his word, Thou shall not worship any idols.
Yet the catholic church says you can do so.
They tell you to pray to & worship mary, and to pray to the other saints.

Where is that in the bible?

That's pure heresy and can damn someone to hell.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

(1 Cor 6)

"Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."

(Romans 1)
Dude.. you're wasting your time. The fact that you think all Catholics who pray to Mary are going to go to this fabricated 'hell' shows how stupid your religion is. How does praying to Mary make someone a worse person than someone who doesn't? Because some book told you it was with no reasoning behind it? You're living in a fantasy world my friend..

tpols

06-28-2011, 05:58 PM

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/idolatry-mary_worship.jpg

You stick to your idol worship of mary and peter.
I will stick to worshiping Jesus.
Technically, Jesus was a man separate from God. God was up in heaven doing his own thing when Jesus was a man down here on earth[how else could Jesus have sinned in his life? If God was controlling Jesus on earth, then that would mean God has sinned.. which would mean he wasn't perfect hence destroying the foundation your whole religion is based on]. So the fact that you worship God AND Jesus means you are worshipping a separate entity from God himself.. what you would call an 'idol'. :oldlol:

Godzuki

06-28-2011, 06:02 PM

That has nothing to do with perfect. It has every thing to do with the doctrines of devils and heresy.

It heresy to say Mary was sinless when the Bible tells us all have sinned and fall short, when Mary herself called him her savior.

The immaculate conception is a demonic doctrine.

God said clearly in his word, Thou shall not worship any idols.
Yet the catholic church says you can do so.
They tell you to pray to & worship mary, and to pray to the other saints.

Where is that in the bible?

That's pure heresy and can damn someone to hell.

"Know ye not that the unrighteous shall not inherit the kingdom of God? Be not deceived: neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor abusers of themselves with mankind, Nor thieves, nor covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor extortioners, shall inherit the kingdom of God."

(1 Cor 6)

"Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshipped and served the creature more than the Creator, who is blessed for ever. Amen."

(Romans 1)

isnt it "false" idols? Christians worship Jesus who is separate from God, and there are statues and pictures of Jesus everywhere. i didn't realize the christian church had a issue with catholics due to that phrase tho, and them being big on saints and stuff.

eh nm tpols just said it.

shlver

06-28-2011, 06:15 PM

Technically, Jesus was a man separate from God. God was up in heaven doing his own thing when Jesus was a man down here on earth[how else could Jesus have sinned in his life? If God was controlling Jesus on earth, then that would mean God has sinned.. which would mean he wasn't perfect hence destroying the foundation your whole religion is based on]. So the fact that you worship God AND Jesus means you are worshipping a separate entity from God himself.. what you would call an 'idol'. :oldlol:

John 10:30 "I and the Father are one."

John 10:31-33 [31] Again the Jews picked up stones to stone him, [32] but Jesus said to them, "I have shown you many great miracles from the Father. For which of these do you stone me?" [33] "We are not stoning you for any of these," replied the Jews, "but for blasphemy, because you, a mere man, claim to be God."
So Jesus claimed to be God and he could not have sinned.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 06:15 PM

Dude.. you're wasting your time. The fact that you think all Catholics who pray to Mary are going to go to this fabricated 'hell' shows how stupid your religion is. How does praying to Mary make someone a worse person than someone who doesn't? Because some book told you it was with no reasoning behind it? You're living in a fantasy world my friend..

Second Commandment of God.

"you shall have no other gods before me. You shall not make for yourself an idol, whether in the form of anything that is in heaven above, or that is on the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. You shall not bow down to them or worship them; for I the Lord your God am a jealous God."

Hey, why don't we go and steal money from the bank... We can't? Why? because some american law book told us not to with no reasoning behind it? You're living in a fantasy world my friend..

shlver

06-28-2011, 06:16 PM

isnt it "false" idols? Christians worship Jesus who is separate from God, and there are statues and pictures of Jesus everywhere. i didn't realize the christian church had a issue with catholics due to that phrase tho, and them being big on saints and stuff.

eh nm tpols just said it.
To be perfectly honest, those who worships statues, crosses, and paintings of Jesus are in the wrong.

Dolphin

06-28-2011, 06:17 PM

Regardless of the faults of the Catholic Church and other christian denominations that have be reported on for years in the media, due to my own experiences, I will always look upon Catholics in a better light than the rest. They are better to hang around and always seem to be well adapted humans. They have a more secular view of the world (well, to be accurate, many are only Catholics in name) and accept science and the like much more readily.

They don't lecture me on why I am going to fall into a never ending pit of flames during lunch break at work.....like those who follow other teachings (not making that up). They don't say they're going home to pray for me. They don't offer to give me a Bible. They aren't tacky or make dinner conversation awkward.

Not generalizing for the sake of generalizing...just going off my own experiences.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 06:20 PM

Technically, Jesus was a man separate from God. God was up in heaven doing his own thing when Jesus was a man down here on earth[how else could Jesus have sinned in his life? If God was controlling Jesus on earth, then that would mean God has sinned.. which would mean he wasn't perfect hence destroying the foundation your whole religion is based on]. So the fact that you worship God AND Jesus means you are worshipping a separate entity from God himself.. what you would call an 'idol'. :oldlol:

The failure is strong here...

First of all, Jesus did not sin. He was sinless, which was required for him to be the sacrifice for our sin.

Jesus is God.
The Father is God.
The Holy Spirit is God.

Three but one.

Jesus "I and my Father are one." (John 10:30)

The bible tells us to Worship God.
Nice try idiot. :oldlol:

Bladers

06-28-2011, 06:21 PM

tpols

06-28-2011, 06:30 PM

So Jesus claimed to be God and he could not have sinned.
I dont get it.. are you supporting what I said or refuting it?

There's two ways this could go:

If God and Jesus were one, since Jesus was said to have sinned while living on earth just like everyone else, then God would have sinned too.. which would mean he isn't perfect.

If God and Jesus are separate, then God would not have sinned.. but then Jesus would be considered a separate entity from God, meaning you couldn't worship him away from God or you would violate the idol worship rule.

It's one or the other..

tpols

06-28-2011, 06:35 PM

First of all, Jesus did not sin. He was sinless, which was required for him to be the sacrifice for our sin.

What? Doesn't the bible say that Jesus ran away from his parents to some temple in Isreal, leaving them panicked and scared? Doesn't the bible also say that Jesus destroyed a bunch of stands outside of a temple in rage?

If I were to go to the area around my church and set a hotdog vendor's cart on fire because I didn't like that he was selling hotdogs around my church during the sabbath I can guarantee you my hypothetical pastor would consider that a grave sin. Why does Jesus get a pass?

You said Mary wasn't sinless, because she, like all humans, was a sinner. Was Jesus not a human? Isn't it stressed over and over and over that Jesus was a mortal just like us? How is he the exception to the rule you placed on Mary?

shlver

06-28-2011, 06:36 PM

I dont get it.. are you supporting what I said or refuting it?

There's two ways this could go:

If God and Jesus were one, since Jesus was said to have sinned while living on earth just like everyone else, then God would have sinned too.. which would mean he isn't perfect.

If God and Jesus are separate, then God would not have sinned.. but then Jesus would be considered a separate entity from God, meaning you couldn't worship him away from God or you would violate the idol worship rule.

It's one or the other..
Where does it say Jesus sinned on earth?

shlver

06-28-2011, 06:38 PM

What? Doesn't the bible say that Jesus ran away from his parents to some temple in Isreal, leaving them panicked and scared? Doesn't the bible also say that Jesus destroyed a bunch of stands outside of a temple in rage?

If I were to go to the area around my church and set a hotdog vendor's cart on fire because I didn't like that he was selling hotdogs around my church during the sabbath I can guarantee you my hypothetical pastor would consider that a grave sin. Why does Jesus get a pass?

You said Mary wasn't sinless, because she, like all humans, was a sinner. Was Jesus not a human? Isn't it stressed over and over and over that Jesus was a mortal just like us? How is he the exception to the rule you placed on Mary?
How can you superimpose morals of humans on someone claimed to be God? People try to do the same thing when they pull the "homosexuality occurs in nature" card.

tpols

06-28-2011, 06:41 PM

How can you superimpose morals of humans on someone claimed to be God?
I was told that Jesus sinned just like any other human in his life. He experienced human emotions like anger and acted on them in a negative fashion. That is sinning. You dont think Jesus, as a man, ever checked out some of the females in his area? Is that not lust, another sin? Or was Jesus devoid of testosterone and other chemicals in males that make them attracted to females?

And what do you mean by that sentence? That Jesus was above all of our silly morals because he was God? So he can sin and have it be called something different just because of that title? Makes no sense.

tpols

06-28-2011, 06:42 PM

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6880/jesusfacepalmdemotivati.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/jesusfacepalmdemotivati.jpg/)
:roll:

KOLBCTEW

06-28-2011, 06:45 PM

I was told that Jesus sinned just like any other human in his life.:wtf:

He experienced human emotions like anger and acted on them in a negative fashion. That is sinning.
When?

You dont think Jesus, as a man, ever checked out some of the females in his area? Is that not lust, another sin?
Looking at is one thing, lustful thoughts is an entirely different thing..

Or was Jesus devoid of testosterone and other chemicals in males that make them attracted to females?
Attraction does not = Sin, Acting on that attraction and Having lustful thoughts is..

Bladers

06-28-2011, 06:46 PM

Where does it say Jesus sinned on earth?

Why bother responding to that idiot?

Quizno

06-28-2011, 06:46 PM

shlver

06-28-2011, 06:47 PM

I was told that Jesus sinned just like any other human in his life. He experienced human emotions like anger and acted on them in a negative fashion. That is sinning. You dont think Jesus, as a man, ever checked out some of the females in his area? Is that not lust, another sin? Or was Jesus devoid of testosterone and other chemicals in males that make them attracted to females?

And what do you mean by that sentence? That Jesus was above all of our silly morals because he was God? So he can sin and have it be called something different just because of his title? Makes no sense.
You have no evidence he sinned. You're blowing smoke without saying anything.
And his anger and acting on it had the focus of preserving God's temple and was completely justified in my eyes. That's exactly what I'm saying. You call that sinning, I don't. How are you going to superimpose something that is debatable like moral behavior on someone who claimed to be God?

shlver

06-28-2011, 06:49 PM

there's a difference between being a dick and sinning. apparently, jesus had some dick-like qualities but that does not constitute him as a sinner. by those standards i'd rather be a sinner :oldlol:
I thought you were more intelligent than this. :ohwell:

Bladers

06-28-2011, 06:51 PM

I was told that Jesus sinned just like any other human in his life. He experienced human emotions like anger and acted on them in a negative fashion. That is sinning. You dont think Jesus, as a man, ever checked out some of the females in his area? Is that not lust, another sin? Or was Jesus devoid of testosterone and other chemicals in males that make them attracted to females?

And what do you mean by that sentence? That Jesus was above all of our silly morals because he was God? So he can sin and have it be called something different just because of that title? Makes no sense.

So you are not an idiot, you were just brainwashed.
Ok, well first of all Jesus did not sin.

Second of all, anger is not a sin.
No Jesus did not check out a woman in the manner you are speaking of (lust).

Jesus infacted preached against it.

"But I say unto you, That whosoever looketh on a woman to lust after her hath committed adultery with her already in his heart." (Matthew 5:28)

"For we have not an high priest which cannot be touched with the feeling of our infirmities; but was in all points tempted like as we are, yet without sin." (Hebrews 4:15)

Kungfro

06-28-2011, 06:51 PM

http://img97.imageshack.us/img97/6880/jesusfacepalmdemotivati.jpg (http://imageshack.us/photo/my-images/97/jesusfacepalmdemotivati.jpg/)

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228092

I find it funny that he keeps calling others brainwashed sheeple, yet he seems very close minded on the topic of religion.

tpols

06-28-2011, 06:56 PM

You have no evidence he sinned. You're blowing smoke without saying anything.
And his anger and acting on it had the focus of preserving God's temple and was completely justified in my eyes. That's exactly what I'm saying. You call that sinning, I don't. How are you going to superimpose something that is debatable like moral behavior on someone who claimed to be God?
What about running away from his parents?

"Respect your father and your mother, so that you may live a long time in the land I am giving you". Exodus 20:12

Jesus as a boy - "His parents were astonished when they saw him, and his mother said to him, "My son, why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been terribly worried trying to find you." Luke 2 :48
How the fvck is that not a sin? You're basically saying that 'sinning' is a subjective topic and that us mortals cant judge it compared to God.. Well why do we have all of these priests telling us what we can and cant do? Are they not mortals just like us with subjective views on morality? What I referenced above is a commandment specifically given by God to a man on earth.. and Jesus disobeyed it. Is that not a sin?

Quizno

06-28-2011, 07:01 PM

I thought you were more intelligent than this. :ohwell:
it seems like you were saying that the morals of humans can't be imposed upon jesus, but that just seems like a huge cop out, don't you think? how can a being still be "perfect" if they're causing pain and suffering whatsoever upon other people as tpols claimed? i guess it all depends on one's definition of perfection which is, of course, entirely subjective and flawed in its own right, but to me it's just weak to state that somebody or something has a right to act in a way that's frowned upon in our society but still be considered to be flawless due to their supposed status as a god

Bladers

06-28-2011, 07:04 PM

What about running away from his parents?

He didn't run away from his parents... holy crap.
He stayed behind and his parents didn't look for him because they thought he was with the other company. So they went ahead.

Infact the scripture said; "And he went down with them, and came to Nazareth, and was subject unto them"

You reaching bro. He didn't disobey his parents.

shlver

06-28-2011, 07:05 PM

What about running away from his parents?

How the fvck is that not a sin? You're basically saying that 'sinning' is a subjective topic and that us mortals cant judge it compared to God.. Well why do we have all of these priests telling us what we can and cant do? Are they not mortals just like us with subjective views on morality? What I referenced above is a commandment specifically given by God to a man on earth.. and Jesus disobeyed it. Is that not a sin?
And there are verses that imply the will of God comes first before your parents and it makes sense.
Don't listen to priests, read the Bible, pray, and judge for yourself what you believe God says is right or wrong.

shlver

06-28-2011, 07:08 PM

it seems like you were saying that the morals of humans can't be imposed upon jesus, but that just seems like a huge cop out, don't you think? how can a being still be "perfect" if they're causing pain and suffering whatsoever upon other people as tpols claimed? i guess it all depends on one's definition of perfection which is, of course, entirely subjective and flawed in its own right, but to me it's just weak to state that somebody or something has a right to act in a way that's frowned upon in our society but still be considered to be flawless due to their supposed status as a god
If it's in the will of God, that pain and suffering is not evidence of sinning.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 07:10 PM

And there is a verse who says the will of God comes first before your parents.
Don't listen to priests, read the Bible, pray, and judge for yourself what you believe God says is right or wrong.

That isn't even necessary to point out.
The fact is he didn't disobey his parents. (Ephesians 6:1
Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.)

Disobey means to Fail to obey (rules, a command, or someone in authority)

If there was no rule or command, then there is no disobedience.

Tpol is obvious reaching for something to grasp onto and failing hard.
Tpols tell us what idiot atheist site you got that from?

shlver

06-28-2011, 07:11 PM

That isn't even necessary to point out.
The fact is he didn't disobey his parents. (Ephesians 6:1
Children, obey your parents in the Lord: for this is right.)

Disobey means to Fail to obey (rules, a command, or someone in authority)

If there was no rule or command, then there is no disobedience.

Tpol is obvious reaching for something to grasp onto and failing hard.
Tpols tell us what idiot atheist site you got that from?
That's the main point of the verse, not the disobedience.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 07:13 PM

That's the main point of the verse, not the disobedience.

Yeah, but like I said, Its not even necessary to point out when there was no command to obey/disobey in the first place.

This happens everyday, parents forget their kids and think they are with them and have to come back later to get them.

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:13 PM

If it's in the will of God, that pain and suffering is not evidence of sinning.
So basically the will of God can overwrite ANY sin that anyone EVER commits, which is the reason why Jesus never sinned because his whole life was devoted to God? Sounds like a copout to me.. It's just an arbitrary rule that absolves someone of everything they have ever done.

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:14 PM

Disobey means to Fail to obey (rules, a command, or someone in authority)

If there was no rule or command, then there is no disobedience.

:roll: at the semantics.. So my mom DIDN'T tell me not to rob the liquor store, so when I did it, techincally i never disobeyed her and everything she's taught me throughout my life. Right..:oldlol:

Bladers

06-28-2011, 07:15 PM

:roll: at the semantics.. So my mom DIDN'T tell me to rob the liquor store, so when I did it, techincally i never disobeyed her and everything she's taught me throughout my life. Right..:oldlol:

You're an idiot.

"Thou shalt not steal"

shlver

06-28-2011, 07:16 PM

So basically the will of God can overwrite ANY sin that anyone EVER commits, which is the reason why Jesus never sinned because his whole life was devoted to God? Sounds like a copout to me.. It's just an arbitrary rule that absolves someone of everything they have ever done.
Jesus never sinned because He is and claimed to be God so he was acting it out because He knew it. This is a pointless debate really, it all hinges on whether or not you believe Jesus was God or not. You see people through history people claiming their actions are the will of God and it caused a lot of bloodshed and suffering but is it really? No. The actions you guys are calling "sins" are laughable, really. Like seriously...:ohwell:

Bladers

06-28-2011, 07:18 PM

Jesus never sinned because He is and claimed to be God. You see people through history people claiming their actions are the will of God and it caused a lot of bloodshed and suffering but is it really? No. The actions you guys are calling "sins" are laughable, really. Like really...:ohwell:

That's all he can do, fabricate a sin and say, HEY HEY Jesus did this.

But don't blame him, he got it off a atheist site. He's just a brainwashed sheeple!
I can bet you $1000 dollars on that!

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:18 PM

You're an idiot.

"Thou shalt not steal"
It can apply to any situation where I do something bad.. doesn't have to be stealing. You can disobey your parents without them specifically telling you not to not do a certain thing.

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:20 PM

Jesus never sinned because He is and claimed to be God so he was acting it out because He knew it. This is a pointless debate really, it all hinges on whether or not you believe Jesus was God or not. You see people through history people claiming their actions are the will of God and it caused a lot of bloodshed and suffering but is it really? No. The actions you guys are calling "sins" are laughable, really. Like seriously...:ohwell:
I didn't make this stuff up.. I was told they were sins. If you go through the bible you can pretty much find scripture that points on anything being a sin. You can literally go to hell for anything you do no matter how trivial or arbitrary. To believe that Jesus, as a man, on earth, never once had an evil thought cross his mind whether in anger, lust, or any other emotion is laughable.. and then to cover up all of his actions with 'well it was in the will of God' is even more nonsensical.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 07:21 PM

It can apply to any situation where I do something bad.. doesn't have to be stealing. You can disobey your parents without them specifically telling you not to not do a certain thing.

You said he disobeyed his parents, define disobey. :oldlol:

Oh shit this is about to be as hilarious as Dmavs/Gino trying to change the definition of "History". :roll: :roll: :roll:

shlver

06-28-2011, 07:21 PM

It can apply to any situation where I do something bad.. doesn't have to be stealing. You can disobey your parents without them specifically telling you not to not do a certain thing.
So if they say "go piss in that bush" and you disobey them, that's a sin?

shlver

06-28-2011, 07:22 PM

I didn't make this stuff up.. I was told they were sins. If you go through the bible you can pretty much find scripture that points on anything being a sin. You can literally go to hell for anything you do no matter how trivial or arbitrary. To believe that Jesus, as a man, on earth, never once had an evil thought cross his mind whether in anger, lust, or any other emotion is laughable.. and then to cover up all of his actions with 'well it was in the will of God' is even more nonsensical.
What actions? You gave me two that held no water.:lol

Bladers

06-28-2011, 07:23 PM

I didn't make this stuff up.. I was told they were sins. If you go through the bible you can pretty much find scripture that points on anything being a sin. You can literally go to hell for anything you do no matter how trivial or arbitrary. To believe that Jesus, as a man, on earth, never once had an evil thought cross his mind whether in anger, lust, or any other emotion is laughable.. and then to cover up all of his actions with 'well it was in the will of God' is even more nonsensical.

You got one thing right, you are not making this stuff up. You got it off an atheist website.

The same sites make statements like "If God is all powerful, can he create a rock he couldn't lift?" :oldlol:

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:23 PM

You said he disobeyed his parents, define disobey. :oldlol:

Oh shit this is about to be as hilarious as Dmavs/Gino trying to change the definition of "History". :roll: :roll: :roll:
Disobeying is when you do any negative thing that your parents would not approve of and you know they wouldn't approve of it. I was told Jesus KNEW his parents would be worried if he didn't return from the temple so technically he disregarded their feelings and disobeyed what he knew they expected him to do.. which was to NOT stay at a temple away from them for days on end leaving them extremely worried..

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:24 PM

So if they say "go piss in that bush" and you disobey them, that's a sin?
According to the Ten Commandments passed down from God? Yes. I'm not even using my own judgement here.

shlver

06-28-2011, 07:25 PM

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:26 PM

You got one thing right, you are not making this stuff up. You got it off an atheist website.

The same sites make statements like "If God is all powerful, can he create a rock he couldn't lift?" :oldlol:
I've never been to an 'atheist' website. You seem paranoid about there being some BIG, evil athiest website that sucks in people and brainwashes them..:oldlol:

Everything I learned was taught to me in CCD throughout years and years of brainwashing in my youth.

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:30 PM

But what was the focus of staying at the temple? Is studying scripture with priests negative in the eyes of God?
It was the fact that he disregarded their feelings and what he knew they expected him to do.. It's the very definition of disobeying when it comes to your parents~doing something you know full well they wouldn't want you doing. Sure it wasn't a negative thing, but that wasn't the sin. The sin was doing something against their will fullknowingly.

I could have rode my bike across a highway when I was 10 years old when my parents told me to not leave the neighborhood and I would be disobeying them. The action I performed in the meantime[riding a bike to a different neighborhood], however, was not of any negative moral stature.

shlver

06-28-2011, 07:31 PM

It was the fact that he disregarded their feelings and what he knew they expected him to do.. It's the very definition of disobeying when it comes to your parents~doing something you know full well they wouldn't want you doing. Sure it wasn't a negative thing, but that wasn't the sin. The sin was doing something against their will fullknowingly.

I could have rode my bike across a highway when I was 10 years old when my parents told me to not leave the neighborhood and I would be disobeying them. The action I performed in the meantime, however, was not of any negative moral stature.
You have no evidence that that was against their will. Bladers provided the verse and you're just blowing smoke again.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 07:31 PM

Disobeying is when you do any negative thing that your parents would not approve of and you know they wouldn't approve of it. I was told Jesus KNEW his parents would be worried if he didn't return from the temple so technically he disregarded their feelings and disobeyed what he knew they expected him to do.. which was to NOT stay at a temple away from them for days on end leaving them extremely worried..

You were told by Richard Dawkins? :oldlol:

Let me lecture you with the true event from the bible. Please stop reading those atheist sites, they are brain-washing you! :lol

"And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?" (Luke 2)

'And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?”' (NKJV)

Actually no he didn't, infact it was the opposite, he expected them to know about it.

Secondly, that is not the definition of disobedience. Disobedience: " failure to obey."

You failed, Gino 2.0! :roll: :roll:

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:35 PM

You have no evidence that that was against their will. Bladers provided the verse and you're just blowing smoke again.
What verse did Bladers post that refuted Jesus disobeying his parent's will? All his verse said was that God's Will>>Parent's Will.. MY verse actually said that Jesus's parents were very upset with Jesus thereby indicating that they feel he slighted them in some way.

shlver

06-28-2011, 07:37 PM

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:38 PM

Show me.
Check Page 9 again.. Luke 2:48

Bladers

06-28-2011, 07:38 PM

What verse did Bladers post that refuted Jesus disobeying his parent's will? All his verse said was that God's Will>>Parent's Will.. MY verse actually said that Jesus's parents were very upset with Jesus thereby indicating that they feel he slighted them in some way.

You failed in every area of your assertion.

I was told Jesus KNEW his parents would be worried if he didn't return from the temple so technically he disregarded their feelings and disobeyed what he knew they expected him to do..

"And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?"

'And He said to them,

shlver

06-28-2011, 07:39 PM

Check Page 9 again.. Luke 2:48

"And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?"

'And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?”'

(NKJV)

This speaks volume. Stop listening to what people tell you and start reading what the bible actually says.
Today 04:38 PM
Done. That was fast...
Been forgetting Bible verses.

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:42 PM

Done. That was fast...
That doesn't say that Jesus didn't disobey his parents.:oldlol: It says he disobeyed them, but it was in the name of God.. which is what I said like 3 posts ago. All that is saying is that the action of going to a church and praying to God overrode the disobeying of his parents. And I already stated my beliefs on that bit.

shlver

06-28-2011, 07:43 PM

Bladers

06-28-2011, 07:45 PM

That doesn't say that Jesus didn't disobey his parents.:oldlol: It says he disobeyed them, but it was in the name of God.. which is what I said like 3 posts ago. All that is saying is that the action of going to a church and praying to God overrode the disobeying of his parents. And I already stated my beliefs on that bit.

Where in here does it say Jesus disobeyed (refusing or neglecting to obey an order) his parents.

"And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?"

'And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?”'

(NKJV)

I'm waiting... :violin:

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:46 PM

Then it's not sinning.
He broke a major commandment.. Sure the act of going and praying to God may have been a rectifying act that acted as a positive to cancel it out, but he still committed a sin in the first place. Placing 'well it was in the name of God' on every action he ever did just sounds like a copout..

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:47 PM

I'm waiting... :violin:

Commandment - "Respect your father and your mother, so that you may live a long time in the land I am giving you". Exodus 20:12
Jesus as a boy - "His parents were astonished when they saw him, and his mother said to him, "My son, why have you done this to us? Your father and I have been terribly worried trying to find you." Luke 2 :48
..

shlver

06-28-2011, 07:47 PM

He broke a major commandment.. Sure the act of going and praying to God may have been a rectifying act that acted as a positive to cancel it out, but he sstill commited a sin in the first place. Placing 'well it was in the name of God' on every action he ever did just sounds like a copout..
He didn't break a major commandment. if you want to get into semantics we can. It never says to obey in the Ten Commandments.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 07:49 PM

Infact if Jesus was disobeying his parents... He would have STAYED in the temple and told his mom to 'f' off...:oldlol:

But no, the bible said, He went down with them and came to Nazareth, and was subject to them.

Now if he would have stayed with the knowledge of them wanting him to come with them, that would have been disobedience.

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:50 PM

He didn't break a major commandment. if you want to get into semantics we can. It never says to obey in the Ten Commandments.
So now we dont have to obey the ten commandments? Aren't they the foundation for the old Testament? Dude.. this is just bullshit. That's the problem with the bible. It's so big, packed with rules, and ambiguous, that you can pretty much make a case for anything and everything towards what is and isn't right. This argument is pointless.:oldlol:

Bladers

06-28-2011, 07:50 PM

..

Where does it say he disobeyed (refusing or neglecting to obey) his parents...

I'm waiting...

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:52 PM

Where does it say he disobeyed (refusing or neglecting to obey) his parents...

I'm waiting...
I posted the verse above. He knowingly went and did something that he knew would worry and upset his parents.. He knew they wouldn't approve of him staying away for so long which explains their anger with him in the verse.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 07:53 PM

tpols what happened to?

I was told Jesus KNEW his parents would be worried if he didn't return from the temple so technically he disregarded their feelings and disobeyed what he knew they expected him to do..

Is this what you do? back-paddle and discard statements after being shown the truth... Come on.

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:54 PM

tpols what happened to?

Is this what you do? back-paddle when being shown the truth... Come on.
Dude I just explained everything in my last post..

shlver

06-28-2011, 07:54 PM

So now we dont have to obey the ten commandments? Aren't they the foundation for the old Testament? Dude.. this is just bullshit. That's the problem with the bible. It's so big, packed with rules, and ambiguous, that you can pretty much make a case for anything and everything towards what is and isn't right. This argument is pointless.:oldlol:
Because your argument is stupid. It really is. Joseph and Mary who both had faith in God to move to a different country. Joseph who believed that his virgin wife was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. They are both humans who have terrible insight on God's will. God's will supersedes everything else and studying scripture is part of the will of God for every single person even if it means disobeying your parent's commands.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 07:56 PM

I posted the verse above. He knowingly went and did something that he knew would worry and upset his parents.. He knew they wouldn't approve of him staying away for so long which explains their anger with him in the verse.

They weren't angry, they were worried(anxious).. Holy crap how many times can you be wrong without admitting it? You are badly butchering the scripture, please stop saying the bible says when it doesn't.

And I posted verse above showing he expected them to know what he was doing and was puzzled by the fact they sought after him and didn't know what he was doing and where he was.

"And he said unto them, How is it that ye sought me? wist ye not that I must be about my Father's business?"

'And He said to them, “Why did you seek Me? Did you not know that I must be about My Father’s business?”'

(NKJV)

You lose tpols.

tpols

06-28-2011, 07:58 PM

Because your argument is stupid. It really is. Joseph and Mary who both had faith in God to move to a different country. Joseph who believed that his virgin wife was impregnated by the Holy Spirit. They are both humans who have terrible insight on God's will. God's will supersedes everything else and studying scripture is part of the will of God for every single person even if it means disobeying your parent's commands.
That brings us back to God's will being more important than a parent's will.. and I already explained how I feel about that rule.. it's an excuse to absolve Jesus of anything and everything he ever did wrong in his life.

shlver

06-28-2011, 07:59 PM

They weren't angry, they were worried(anxious).. Holy crap how many times can you be wrong without admitting it? You are badly butchering the scripture, please stop saying the bible says when it doesn't.

And I posted verse above showing he expected them to know what he was doing and was puzzled by the fact they sought after him and didn't know what he was doing and where he was.

You lose tpols.

And they understood not the saying which he spake unto them.
This speaks volumes also.

Stuckey

06-28-2011, 08:00 PM

So Jesus claimed to be God and he could not have sinned.

what about that scene where he flipped over tables at the market place or whatever, he was pissed about some shi, isn't that wrath

if he was human and had hormones, there's no way you can not lust even a little, that would defy biology

i'm 99.9999% sure jesus was never a real person, just allegorical piece of fiction, someone prove me wrong with non bias sources

shlver

06-28-2011, 08:00 PM

That brings us back to God's will being more important than a parent's will.. and I already explained how I feel about that rule.. it's an excuse to absolve Jesus of anything and everything he ever did wrong in his life.
He didn't do anything wrong. You gave me two, both within the focus of God's will which means it isn't wrong. Dumbest argument I've ever seen.:hammerhead: :hammerhead: :hammerhead:

tpols

06-28-2011, 08:01 PM

They weren't angry, they were worried(anxious).. Holy crap how many times can you be wrong without admitting it? You are badly butchering the scripture, please stop saying the bible says when it doesn't.
.
They were anxious/worried instead of angry? How do you know they weren't both? The verse I quoted implies they were worried and upset which could have meant they were angry as well. And what does it matter if they were worried instead of angry? Bottom line.. they were still against what Jesus did and were emotionally affected by it in a negative way. He disobeyed them.. maybe it was for a good reason, but that doesn't change what he did in the first place.

shlver

06-28-2011, 08:02 PM

tpols

06-28-2011, 08:02 PM

what about that scene where he flipped over tables at the market place or whatever, he was pissed about some shi, isn't that wrath

if he was human and had hormones, there's no way you can not lust even a little, that would defy biology

i'm 99.9999% sure jesus was never a real person, just allegorical piece of fiction, someone prove me wrong with non bias sources
Yup.. hilarious really to belive in 30+ years on earth the dude never committed one tiny little sin. And even if he did, well it was in the name of God, so guess what? It didn't count. Perfection.

shlver

06-28-2011, 08:03 PM

Yup.. hilarious really to belive in 30+ years on earth the dude never committed one tiny little sin. And even if he did, well it was in the name of God, so guess what? It didn't count. Perfection.
If it's in the will of God, it's not a sin you dolt.

tpols

06-28-2011, 08:03 PM

Wrath is anger. And wrath is not a sin.

Acting on it is.. and he sure acted on it.:oldlol:

shlver

06-28-2011, 08:05 PM

Acting on it is.. and he sure acted on it.:oldlol:
And you already conceded this point, and moved on to a more contrived one to prove your retarded case.

KOLBCTEW

06-28-2011, 08:05 PM

Acting on it is.. and he sure acted on it.:oldlol:Uh.. It depends on the act itself whether it is right or wrong.

tpols

06-28-2011, 08:08 PM

And you already conceded this point, and moved on to a more contrived one to prove your retarded case.
Conceded what point? I just picked one of the two documented sins to discuss. Jesus flipping out and tearing apart a bunch of people's stand or whatever violent action he took because he was upset is just as good an example to use for how Jesus had sinned in his life.. And dont say that shit was in the name of God.. there's no possible way that can be spinned.:oldlol:

shlver

06-28-2011, 08:08 PM

Conceded what point? I just picked one of the two documented sins to discuss. Jesus flipping out and tearing apart a bunch of people's stand or whatever violent action he took because he was upset is just as good an example to use for how Jesus had sinned in his life.. And dont say that shit was in the name of God.. there's no possible way that can be spinned.:oldlol:
Okay we'll spell this out for you step by step. Why was Jesus angry?

Bladers

06-28-2011, 08:09 PM

And you already conceded this point, and moved on to a more contrived one to prove your retarded case.

This is what this fool has been doing throughout this thread.
I'm about to ether him with one final post, give me three minutes.

tpols

06-28-2011, 08:10 PM

Okay we'll spell this out for you step by step. Why was Jesus angry?
Because people weren't respecting the sabbath? That's what I remember.. how is violently tearing all of their shit up a productive way to handle that situation? Does Jesus say not to turn the other cheek and resist that type of behavior? Oh wait.. it was in the name of God though. Doesn't count. :oldlol:

tpols

06-28-2011, 08:11 PM

Be back in a few minutes..

KOLBCTEW

06-28-2011, 08:13 PM

That brings us back to God's will being more important than a parent's will.. and I already explained how I feel about that rule.. it's an excuse to absolve Jesus of anything and everything he ever did wrong in his life.For one you seem to be misconstruing what it really means. Honoring your father and mother doesn't simply mean blind obedience nor does it equate to 'do anything they tell you to do even if you know it's wrong'. You can still honor them and decline respectfully especially if what they're telling you to do is wrong.

Conceded what point? I just picked one of the two documented sins to discuss. Jesus flipping out and tearing apart a bunch of people's stand or whatever violent action he took because he was upset is just as good an example to use for how Jesus had sinned in his life..
Uh.. he was stopping them from doing an unjust act. If someone is bludgeoning someone who's already unconscious with a baseball bat and in your anger at witnessing such an act intervene grab the bat and throw it away that wouldn't make it a sin...
Does Jesus say not to turn the other cheek and resist that type of behavior? Oh wait.. it was in the name of God though. Doesn't count. :oldlol: Uh..That's in reference to actually physically hurting someone..

shlver

06-28-2011, 08:21 PM

Because people weren't respecting the sabbath? That's what I remember.. how is violently tearing all of their shit up a productive way to handle that situation? Does Jesus say not to turn the other cheek and resist that type of behavior? Oh wait.. it was in the name of God though. Doesn't count. :oldlol:
He was cleansing His house of defilement. Perfectly justified.

Stuckey

06-28-2011, 08:22 PM

here's another question for religious ppl

if we have free will, then why is the rapture and apocalypse inevitable?

how do christians justify god in the old testament?

if god created everyone, what happened to those before jesus christ? all automatically sent to hell? and if you never even heard of jesus christ, do you get sent to hell?

in a world where there are many saviors from different religions, how are you going to make a choice?

so the whole point of life is to gamble on a savior/religion so you dont spend eternity in the lake of fire

so the billions of people that weren't christians were just made so they can perish, best part is god already knows they had no chance to begin with

what happened to those people before religion was even created?

Bladers

06-28-2011, 08:22 PM

They were anxious/worried instead of angry? How do you know they weren't both? The verse I quoted implies they were worried and upset which could have meant they were angry as well. And what does it matter if they were worried instead of angry? Bottom line.. they were still against what Jesus did and were emotionally affected by it in a negative way. He disobeyed them.. maybe it was for a good reason, but that doesn't change what he did in the first place.

Yep keep saying he disobeyed them without showing where he "failed to obey their command."

No where in that chapter was the impression given that they were angry. And no where in the bible does it say. Like I previously said, Stop saying the bible said so when it does not.

You said:

I was told Jesus KNEW his parents would be worried if he didn't return from the temple so technically he disregarded their feelings and disobeyed what he knew they expected him to do..

But the bible says the opposite, stop listening to what people tell you the bible says, and start reading the bible for yourself.

Bladers

06-28-2011, 08:23 PM

Finally, the ether.

"Then he returned to Nazareth with them and was obedient to them. And his mother stored all these things in her heart." (Luke 2:51)

RoseCity07

06-28-2011, 10:58 PM

Official message from God?:roll:

As if it's a press release. As if God would even need to address humans and give his opinion.

Patrick Chewing

06-28-2011, 11:09 PM

Sad, little atheists

Big_Dogg

06-28-2011, 11:31 PM

Back to the Jesus sinning thing, are you guys saying that in his supposed 30+ years on planet earth the dude was never begging or lusting for some prime poon tang? :confusedshrug:

Hittin_Shots

06-29-2011, 06:39 AM

"I think I will try the post something stupid to make me look like the one who's taking this lightly, which ultimately makes me look cooler angle one more time."

Purrrrrrrr

I fell asleep, but whats the deal with your posts after I say something giving the rundown of what you thinks on my mind when Im posting, its kinda strange and also looking back you never said anything really OT also you just came in sprouting that something irrelevant about me and another guy then acted like you were better than us, ur a condescending douche that also had nothing.

rufuspaul

06-29-2011, 09:22 AM

in a world where there are many saviors from different religions, how are you going to make a choice?

I think this is the most important of your questions. For me there are appealing aspects of many other religions, particularly Buddhism. I'm a Catholic primarily because that's where I feel most comfortable culturally. I certainly don't believe that Christians have a monopoly on the afterlife. I think it's very important especially in this day and age to do all we can to foster respect and dialogue between various faiths.

rufuspaul

06-29-2011, 09:42 AM

Reading back through this thread I've asked Bladers several times what church he belongs to. He has yet to answer.:confusedshrug:

Bladers

06-29-2011, 10:16 AM

Reading back through this thread I've asked Bladers several times what church he belongs to. He has yet to answer.:confusedshrug:

Is Christ divided? Was Peter crucified for you? Did the pope die for you?

Then Why are you asking me what church I belong to? I belong to Christ, not to a group, institution, or denomination.

"Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" (1 Corinthians)

Anyway, I'm a christian who believes in the reality of Jesus Christ. You say, what denomination could best represents me.

Pentecostal

Stuckey

06-29-2011, 11:19 AM

rufuspaul

06-29-2011, 11:23 AM

Is Christ divided? Was Peter crucified for you? Did the pope die for you?

Then Why are you asking me what church I belong to? I belong to Christ, not to a group, institution, or denomination.

"Now this I say, that every one of you saith, I am of Paul; and I of Apollos; and I of Cephas; and I of Christ. Is Christ divided? was Paul crucified for you? or were ye baptized in the name of Paul?" (1 Corinthians)

Anyway, I'm a christian who believes in the reality of Jesus Christ. You say, what denomination could best represents me.

Pentecostal

Is Peter in hell because he was the 1st Pope?

rufuspaul

06-29-2011, 11:30 AM

the vatican corrupt maaaan (seriously) they are some seedy peeps

someone answer me this

if god knows ppl wont accept christ in their one and only lifetime, which is the majority of the ppl he creates, why bother? he is just going to doom them anyways

basically, i'm going to send most of my "children" to hell, forever based on their faith or lack thereof

I think it goes back to the danger of thinking any one religion is the only gate to salvation. Why did God create such a diverse population? Why are there so many religions?

So this man dies and he goes up to heaven. St. Peter greets him and gives him a tour of the place. They pass an area where people are on mats and bowing. "Who are those people?" he asks. "Those are the Muslims." St. Peter replies. They then pass people who are praying the rosary. "Those are the Catholics" St. Peter says. This goes on for awhile with people from various religions. Eventually they pass a room that's closed off from the rest with a large door. "We have to be very quiet when we pass by here" St. Peter says. "Why?" the man asks. "It's Blader's room. He thinks he's the only one here."

vinsane01

06-29-2011, 01:25 PM

When i was a Catholic and going to a catholic school we were told that jesus was a real man and he was god and god was him along with the holy spirit who was also the same god as them. It's confusing i know, i didnt really get it but with god literally anything is possible so i just believed it then.

Anyway, being a man he got to experience what it is to be one. Basically, he felt what the humans felt. That includes anger as evidenced by the temple outburst thing. Now, i never really pondered about it but i always thought that jesus didnt react as he was suppose to. I guess that incident proved that he was indeed a real man since he acted on impulse and he released his anger in a not so holy way. Now if he was a real man then he is subjected to feelings and emotions like that of man. And that would include thoughts that are, with respect to the catholic belief, sinful. I cant really prove it since there are no verses in the bible to support that claim. But If indeed he did sinful acts via exclusive human standards and you believe he is god in the same time, i guess its not a necessarily a cop out, since he is also god which is a privileged not shared by any man. Just my two cents. :D

KeylessEntry

06-29-2011, 01:57 PM

what a dumb ass argument. I want my 10 minutes back.

Bladers

06-29-2011, 02:17 PM

Is Peter in hell because he was the 1st Pope?

Peter didn't start the catholic church. Get that through your head.

rufuspaul

06-29-2011, 02:21 PM

Peter didn't start the catholic church. Get that through your head.

You didn't answer my question. Again.

Bladers

06-29-2011, 02:22 PM

You didn't answer my question. Again.

Peter wasn't the first pope and no, he's not in hell!

rufuspaul

06-29-2011, 02:24 PM

per wiki:

The institution of the papacy as it exists today developed through the centuries. Catholics believe as a point of faith that their Church was founded by Jesus Christ. Catholic doctrine asserts that it is the continuation of the Church that was founded at the Confession of Peter.[citation needed] It interprets the Confession of Peter as Christ's designation of Apostle Peter and his successors in Rome to be the temporal head of his Church. Thus, it asserts that the Bishop of Rome has the sole legitimate claim to Petrine authority and the primacy due to the Roman Pontiff.[1] The Catholic Church claims legitimacy of its bishops and priests via the doctrine of apostolic succession and authority of the Pope via the unbroken line of popes, successors to Simon Peter.[2][3][4][5]

Bladers

06-29-2011, 02:30 PM

per wiki:

Are you retarded? Just believe they claim something is so doesn't make it so.
Just like they claim mary is sinless and that you can worship mary and the saints and so many more heretical doctrine.

And no, Jesus didn't start their heretical church that goes against his word. nor is Peter the head.

rufuspaul

06-29-2011, 02:47 PM

Are you retarded? Just believe they claim something is so doesn't make it so.
Just like they claim mary is sinless and that you can worship mary and the saints and so many more heretical doctrine.

And no, Jesus didn't start their heretical church that goes against his word. nor is Peter the head.

You seem to believe everything claimed in your religion (ie literal interpretation of the bible). The early Christian Church was organized into what is now Roman Catholic and (primarily) Greek orthodox. Whatever you believe is an off-shoot of that. Of course going back farther the whole church is sprung from Judaism.

Please show me where I believe Mary was without sin? I understand the concept of the Immaculate Conception but to me that's just men trying to make logical sense of Jesus' birth:

If Jesus is God, then the vessel of his birth, Mary, must be pure, for an impure creature could not give birth to God on earth. Hence the belief that Mary herself was immaculately conceived.

^^Just a bunch of scholars trying to make sense of it I guess.

miller-time

06-29-2011, 03:09 PM

kind of relates to the discussion, and it is one of the main reasons i don't bother debating the internal concepts of religions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcw1YEtTQCw

rufuspaul

06-29-2011, 03:15 PM

kind of relates to the discussion, and it is one of the main reasons i don't bother debating the internal concepts of religions.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gcw1YEtTQCw

Meh, faceless animatrons don't need a god.

Bladers

06-29-2011, 04:20 PM

You seem to believe everything claimed in your religion (ie literal interpretation of the bible). The early Christian Church was organized into what is now Roman Catholic and (primarily) Greek orthodox. Whatever you believe is an off-shoot of that. Of course going back farther the whole church is sprung from Judaism.

Please show me where I believe Mary was without sin? I understand the concept of the Immaculate Conception but to me that's just men trying to make logical sense of Jesus' birth:

If Jesus is God, then the vessel of his birth, Mary, must be pure, for an impure creature could not give birth to God on earth. Hence the belief that Mary herself was immaculately conceived.

^^Just a bunch of scholars trying to make sense of it I guess.

If Mary was without sin why did she need a savior? ("And my spirit hath rejoiced in God my Saviour." Luke 1)

Jesus didn't come from mary, like we come from our mother.
We receive our blood, dna and everything we are from our mom.
Jesus didn't, his body and blood was made and prepared by God in Heaven and put inside mary.

Nothing of mary and her sinful nature touched him and no its not scholars trying to make sense of it... Its a doctrine created by the devil himself to push his agenda to worship man instead of God.

Hebrews 10:5
Wherefore when he cometh into the world, he saith, Sacrifice and offering thou wouldest not, but a body hast thou prepared me:

Please read your bible and stop being a sheeple.

Styles p

06-29-2011, 04:31 PM

why do religious people always try to push their religion on non believers? you believe what you want to and i'll believe what i want to.

Bladers

06-29-2011, 04:41 PM

You seem to believe everything claimed in your religion (ie literal interpretation of the bible). The early Christian Church was organized into what is now Roman Catholic and (primarily) Greek orthodox. Whatever you believe is an off-shoot of that.

You do know that nothing of catholicism is Orthodox Christianity.
And no the early christian church was not organized into what is now roman catholic and like I said, you have been brain washed.

The early church didn't confess their sins to "fathers" for them to cleanse them from their sins.
The early church didn't worship or pray to mary.
The early church didn't worship or pray to any of the saints.
The early church weren't filled with heretical doctrines.
The early church were full of the Holy Spirit and his power.
The early church didn't pray:

“Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.”

Instead they prayed:

they lifted up their voice to God with one accord, and said, Lord, thou art God, which hast made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all that in them is... (Acts 4)

The early church didn't pray the rosary, they prayed the prayer of faith.

The early church didn't spend 24 hours and days trying to pray a devil (exorcism), they cast them out immediately.

The early church didn't sprinkle water on the sick and send them home still sick, they healed the sick.

The early church didn't condom their leaders or members having sex with other boys & girls, they threw them out of the church.

The catholic church looks nothing like the early church... please just stop while you are ahead!

rufuspaul

06-29-2011, 05:38 PM

And no the early christian church was not organized into what is now roman catholic and like I said, you have been brain washed.

[QUOTE]The early Christian Church was very loosely organized, resulting in diverse interpretations of Christian beliefs.[34] In part to ensure a greater consistency in their teachings, by the end of the 2nd century Christian communities had evolved a more structured hierarchy, with a central bishop having authority over the clergy in his city,[35] leading to the development of the Metropolitan bishop. The organization of the Church began to mimic that of the Empire; bishops in politically important cities exerted greater authority over bishops in nearby cities.[36] The churches in Antioch, Alexandria, and Rome held the highest positions.[37] Beginning in the 2nd century, bishops often congregated in regional synods to resolve doctrinal and policy issues.[31] Duffy claims that by the 3rd century, the bishop of Rome began to act as a court of appeals for problems that other bishops could not resolve.[38]
Doctrine was further refined by a series of influential theologians and teachers, known collectively as the Church Fathers.[39] From the year 100 onward, proto-orthodox teachers like Ignatius of Antioch and Irenaeus defined Catholic teaching in stark opposition to other things, such as Gnosticism.[40] In the first few centuries of its existence, the Church formed its teachings and traditions into a systematic whole under the influence of theological apologists such as Pope Clement I, Justin Martyr and Augustine of Hippo.[41]
[edit]Persecutions
Unlike most religions in the Roman Empire, Christianity required its adherents to renounce all other gods, a practice adopted from Judaism, see Idolatry. Christians' refusal to join pagan celebrations meant they were unable to participate in much of public life, which caused non-Christians

Bladers

06-29-2011, 06:01 PM

Bladers, I'm curious what your profession of faith is like. Here's the Catholic one. Please tell me how it is heretical:

Holding unto the doctrine that mary was holy and sinless: when the bible says all have SINNED, and that no man or woman on earth doeth good. ("As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.")

Worshiping and praying to mary and the saints: while the Bible says no idolater will inherent the Kingdom of God.

Confessing your sins to men and looking to be cleansed by them: When the bible says only God can forgive sin and only he alone should sin be confessed to.

Rufus, why can't you see these things?

rufuspaul

06-29-2011, 06:27 PM

Holding unto the doctrine that mary was holy and sinless: when the bible says all have SINNED, and that no man or woman on earth doeth good. ("As it is written, There is none righteous, no, not one: They are all gone out of the way, they are together become unprofitable; there is none that doeth good, no, not one.")

Worshiping and praying to mary and the saints: while the Bible says no idolater will inherent the Kingdom of God.

Confessing your sins to men and looking to be cleansed by them: When the bible says only God can forgive sin and only he alone should sin be confessed to.

Rufus, why can't you see these things?

Again you didn't answer my question as to whether anything in the Catholic profession of faith (what we believe) is heretical.

Veneration of the saints, including Mary, is not worship. Catholics worship God alone.
adapted from Catholic Update Do Catholics Worship Images?
Stories and Prayers, by Teresita Scully
o Catholics worship the saints? To worship someone is to acknowledge that the one who is worshiped is divine, is God. Sometimes we can confuse cultural gestures of reverence for gestures of worship. In doing so, we often judge not as God does, by what is in the heart, but rather by appearances (see Jn 8:15, Is 11:3).

Catholics hold saints in esteem because they are such wonderful images or mirrors of Christ. Paul several times exhorts his readers to be imitators of him: "Be imitators of me, as I am of Christ" (1 Cor 11:1, also Phil 3:17, 1 Cor 4:16).

Mary is the first saint, and holds high honor today, as she did in the early Church. Over the course of history, devotion to Mary has taken many forms, and even has been confused with worship. Church teaching has consistently placed Mary in the company of the saints, however.

Devotion to the saints comes back to the theology of image: Christ is God's image, the saints are Christ's image. We honor them because we desire to imitate them. We pray to them the same as we call upon earthly friends to do a favor for us. This too, is scriptural. In Acts we read of Peter and John going up to the Temple for prayer and encountering a beggar. Peter says to him, "I have neither silver nor gold, but what I do have I give you: in the name of Jesus Christ the Nazorean, rise and walk" (Acts 3:6). Peter makes it clear that he has the power of Christ in his possession.

To be sure, it is Jesus who heals, but Peter holds the right to extend that power. The same can be said of Paul. In Acts 19:11-12 we read, "So extraordinary were the mighty deeds God accomplished at the hands of Paul that when face cloths or aprons that touched his skin were applied to the sick, their diseases left them and the evil spirits came out of them." These texts are the basis of the Catholic practice of asking saints to help us, of honoring (not worshiping) the bodies and relics of saints.

rufuspaul

06-29-2011, 06:36 PM

Confessing your sins to men and looking to be cleansed by them

Sacraments are conferred by priests. The priest stands for Christ, the son of God. The priest is a representative of Christ. To hear the words of forgiveness from another human is encouragement.

The priest also gives advice, in the Sacrament of Penance, to help us improve our living. We all need guidance and direction. This Sacrament has a human and divine element. We do our part by admitting our faults; the priest does his part through absolving and administering a penance. We also receive healing of hurt and anger through this sacrament. This is done by the power of the Holy Spirit who commissions the priest to carry out the mission of Jesus.

The ordained priesthood guarantees that it really is Christ Who acts in the Sacraments, through the Holy Spirit, for the Church. The saving mission entrusted by the Father to Jesus was committed to the Apostles and their successors who act in His name.

The priest doesn't forgive sins, only God can do that.

Did you baptize yourself? No. A clergy member did it. Did this clergy member free you from original sin? No. Only God can do that.

You have an inaccurate view of Catholic sacraments. Quit talking out of your brainwashed ass.

Bladers

06-29-2011, 06:47 PM

Again you didn't answer my question as to whether anything in the Catholic profession of faith (what we believe) is heretical.

Dude think for yourself for a second and stop being a sheeple.

One of the most prominent Catholic prayers:

“Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.”

That's worship. Not only do they worship mary, they pray to her when the bible tells us to pray to God only.
Open your eyes gosh dammit! How long will you be deceived?

Catholics bow down to Mary everyday.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/mary_worsip_is_crazy.jpg

See what happens when people tried to do that with peter or the apostles?

Acts 7

"And as Peter was coming in, Cornelius met him, and fell down at his feet, and worshipped him. But Peter took him up, saying, Stand up; I myself also am a man."

Peter never received worship. Yet we see people today praying to him and bowing down to his images.

http://www.fatima.org/essentials/requests/promises.asp

The 15 Promises of Our Lady to Christians Who Recite the Rosary

0. Whoever shall faithfully serve Me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall receive signal graces.

1. I promise My special protection and the greatest graces to all who shall recite the Rosary.

2. The Rosary shall be a powerful armor against hell, it will destroy vice, decrease sin, and defeat heresies.

3. It will cause virtue and good works to flourish; it will obtain for souls the abundant mercy of God; it will withdraw the hearts of men from the love of the world and its vanities, and will lift them to the desire of eternal things. Oh, that souls would sanctify themselves by this means.

4. The soul which recommends itself to Me by the recitation of the Rosary, shall not perish.

5. Those who are faithful in reciting the Rosary shall have during their life and at their death the light of God and the plenitude of His graces; at the moment of death they shall participate in the merits of the saints in paradise.

6. I shall deliver from purgatory, those who have been devoted to the Rosary.

7. The faithful children of the Rosary shall merit a high degree of glory in Heaven.

8. You shall obtain all you ask of Me by the recitation of the Rosary.
All those who propagate the holy Rosary shall be aided by Me in their necessities.

9. I have obtained from My Divine Son, that all the advocates of the Rosary shall have for intercessors, the entire celestial court during their life and at the hour of death.

10. All who recite the Rosary are My sons, and brothers of My only son Jesus Christ.

I feel for you dude... you are so deep in the deception of the devil. :(

Bladers

06-29-2011, 07:02 PM

The priest doesn't forgive sins, only God can do that.

Did you baptize yourself? No. A clergy member did it. Did this clergy member free you from original sin? No. Only God can do that.

You have an inaccurate view of Catholic sacraments. Quit talking out of your brainwashed ass.

No one on earth were ever to continue the "mission" of Jesus to forgive sin.
No one on earth represents Jesus. Heck, There are no more priests, no one stands for Christ the son of God. He is our high priest. He is our advocate.

Priest cannot give penance, no man can. The saving mission wasn't appointed to any one.

Jesus said "It is finished" not "to be continued"

Jesus gave us the great commision to preach the gospel and if anyone believes he is saved. Its Jesus who saves through by his holy spirit when the person believes. Nothing to do with us.

Ephesians 1:13
In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,

By the way, baptism doesn't wash away sin.

rufuspaul

06-29-2011, 07:12 PM

I feel for you dude... you are so deep in the deception of the devil. :(
:roll: :roll: :roll:

It's not my fault you can't understand the difference between veneration and worship. Again: did you baptize yourself? Or better yet did Christ come down and baptize you? There was another human involved wasn't there?

You quoted the Acts of the apostles so therefore you know that Peter and Paul were able to heal people. Did this make them Gods or just humans standing in for Christ?

Since you won't answer any of my questions I am leaving this discussion. Have fun in heaven.

Bladers

06-29-2011, 07:15 PM

“Hail, holy Queen, Mother of Mercy! Our life, our sweetness and our hope! To thee do we cry, poor banished children of Eve. To thee do we send up our sighs, mourning and weeping, in this valley of tears. Turn, then, most gracious Advocate, thine eyes of mercy toward us; and after this our exile show unto us the blessed fruit of thy womb, Jesus. O clement, O loving, O sweet Virgin Mary.”

"For there is one God, and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus" (1 Timothy 2:5)

"My little children, these things write I unto you, that ye sin not. And if any man sin, we have an advocate with the Father, Jesus Christ the righteous:" (1 John 2:1)

Oh I see it I see it, I was wrong you were right all along OMG... I can't believe Philippians 4:6 actually says "Be careful for nothing; but in every thing by prayer and supplication with thanksgiving let your requests be made known unto MARY. (God)"

Oh wait....

:no:

Bladers

06-29-2011, 07:23 PM

:roll: :roll: :roll:

It's not my fault you can't understand the difference between veneration and worship.

First define what worship is then look at what catholics are doing to mary.
Worship means to bow down, Show reverence, adoration and honor.

Secondly where does is tell us to do that to mary or to pray to her in the bible?
Where? I'm waiting.

Again: did you baptize yourself? Or better yet did Christ come down and baptize you? There was another human involved wasn't there?

What does baptism have to do with the cleansing of sin?

You quoted the Acts of the apostles so therefore you know that Peter and Paul were able to heal people. Did this make them Gods or just humans standing in for Christ?

Mark 16
"And these signs shall follow them that believe; In my name shall they cast out devils; they shall speak with new tongues; they shall lay hands on the sick, and they shall recover."

Every christian can heal the sick and every christian can cast out devils, every christian can work miracles.

That doesn't consists of them standing in for Christ. Its christ working with them and confirming the words with the miracles following.

Mark 16
And they went forth, and preached every where, the Lord working with them, and confirming the word with signs following. Amen.

Since you won't answer any of my questions I am leaving this discussion. Have fun in heaven.

I have answered all your Q, why you mad brah?

Quizno

06-29-2011, 07:26 PM

Dude think for yourself for a second and stop being a sheeple.

dude's trawlin

CLE[216]

06-29-2011, 07:26 PM

"The God of the Old Testament is arguably the most unpleasant character in all fiction: jealous and proud of it; a petty, unjust, unforgiving control-freak; a vindictive, bloodthirsty ethnic cleanser; a misogynistic, homophobic, racist, infanticidal, genocidal, filicidal, pestilential, megalomaniacal, sadomasochistic, capriciously malevolent bully."

-Richard Dawkins

:banana:

Is He Ill

06-29-2011, 07:34 PM

I feel for you dude... you are so deep in the deception of the devil. :(

:oldlol: Wow, I find it hard to take people like yourself seriously.

Bladers

06-29-2011, 07:38 PM

:oldlol: Wow, I find it hard to take people like yourself seriously.

Why no?

Is He Ill

06-29-2011, 07:57 PM

Why no?

Well, because you are so extremely adamant in your belief about your invisible/imaginary friends and villains that it is comical. It's just tough to be taken seriously. I can't see how you live in the world you that you place yourself in. Have fun continuing with that though. I would never let a book written thousands of years ago, by humans, dictate the way I live my life, especially to the extent you are showing. But, if that's the kind of thing you're into and it helps you get by, so be it. Just don't expect people that don't believe in what you are saying to take it seriously.

You have to understand that in the eyes of an atheist, what you are posting is laughable and irrelevant to their life. If you are trying to converse with people that do not believe in your God and you bring God into the equation, it won't get you anywhere with them.

Stuckey

06-29-2011, 08:03 PM

i'm totally down with treating others like you want to be treated, helping the poor, and not letting your instinctual vices control you

but the savior thing is what stirs confusion, if jesus takes all your sins, does that mean he suffers for every sin that will ever be committed? so 3 days of hell = infinity of sin? or is he in hell at the this moment? enlighten me Bladers

have aliens even heard of this guy or do they have their own version of jesus christ?

if your sins didn't affect anyone else, why should you be punished for eternity?

i dont think anything you can do within a lifetime deserves an eternity of hell, even if you rape and murder every last person on earth, i'm sure that's a quantifiable amount of punishment, 10 billion years or whatever? i believe that your negative effects on others put you in a state or irreversible remorse and then you punish yourself

or may be reincarnation is the eternal hell? it's hell in comparison to heaven right?

Big_Dogg

06-29-2011, 08:36 PM

Bladers doesn't seem to even know where and when the book he places so much stock in even comes from and who even put it together in the first place.

Christianity was deemed a cult in ancient times, and were it not for a few pieces of good timing and luck would have been wiped from existence, but I'm sure Bladers will just call that dvivine intervention and go on living in his little fantasy dreamworld of almighty father figures who occasionally dish out a spanking when you've been bad.

Bladers

06-29-2011, 08:37 PM

but the savior thing is what stirs confusion, if jesus takes all your sins, does that mean he suffers for every sin that will ever be committed? so 3 days of hell = infinity of sin?

Yes his sacrifice at the cross is sufficient for sins. Those who accept what he did for them, their sins are covered.

or is he in hell at the this moment? enlighten me Bladers

He is in heaven right now.

have aliens even heard of this guy or do they have their own version of jesus christ?

There no aliens.

if your sins didn't affect anyone else, why should you be punished for eternity?

Like stealing? Yes your sins affect others.

i dont think anything you can do within a lifetime deserves an eternity of hell, even if you rape and murder every last person on earth, i'm sure that's a quantifiable amount of punishment, 10 billion years or whatever? i believe that your negative effects on others put you in a state or irreversible remorse and then you punish yourself

or may be reincarnation is the eternal hell? it's hell in comparison to heaven right?

Then tell me this, why are people sent to life in prison by the judge and the courts as punishment for breaking the law of man? So they can do it but God can't punish his creation for breaking his law?

Finally, Answer me this. Why is it that people expect God not to have laws? and yet people acknowledge and obey the laws of man? If men have laws why are they mystified that people say God has laws?

catch24

06-29-2011, 08:42 PM

Damn, Jeff do you live on the forum?

rufuspaul

06-29-2011, 11:12 PM

What does baptism have to do with the cleansing of sin?

Are you really that stupid? Baptism has everything to do with the cleansing of sin. You don't even understand your own religion.

It has everything to do with the fact that you claim priests cannot hear confession. Who is supposed to administer the sacraments????? If you cannot baptize yourself, which you cannot, who is supposed to do it???

You won't answer these fundamental questions because you don't have any answers.

Rufus out.

Hittin_Shots

06-29-2011, 11:18 PM

Are you really that stupid? Baptism has everything to do with the cleansing of sin. You don't even understand your own religion.

It has everything to do with the fact that you claim priests cannot hear confession. Who is supposed to administer the sacraments????? If you cannot baptize yourself, which you cannot, who is supposed to do it???

You won't answer these fundamental questions because you don't have any answers.

Rufus out.

Don't worry you all crazy, it s'all good...

rufuspaul

06-29-2011, 11:20 PM

Every christian can heal the sick and every christian can cast out devils, every christian can work miracles.

That completely contradicts everything you've said about priests up to this point. Are you saying that priests aren't Christian?

You are saying that humans that are Christian can work through the Holy Spirit to produce miracles. That is the same as saying humans are acting in place of Jesus. You just justified the Catholic faith. Thank you.

rufuspaul

06-29-2011, 11:24 PM

Don't worry you all crazy, it s'all good...
:oldlol:

It's enough to turn you off to everything, I'm sure.

I say if you're young, religion probably won't be your thing. Wait till you have settled down, have a family and start thinking about the big picture. Then start reading philosophy/religion and go with what feels right.

heyhey

06-29-2011, 11:27 PM

:oldlol:

It's enough to turn you off to everything, I'm sure.

I say if you're young, religion probably won't be your thing. Wait till you have settled down, have a family and start thinking about the big picture. Then start reading philosophy/religion and go with what feels right.

I would think young people with less responsiblity would have more insight into the big picture than older people who are tied down with bills and weight of everyday life.

but I don't see how religion provides greater insight once you are older. care to explain a little more? i'm honestly curious

rufuspaul

06-29-2011, 11:32 PM

I would think young people with less responsiblity would have more insight into the big picture than older people who are tied down with bills and weight of everyday life.

but I don't see how religion provides greater insight once you are older. care to explain a little more? i'm honestly curious

Well for me it came with having a child. The question arose: How are we going to raise our daughter? How should we behave as a family that reinforces our moral beliefs.?
Of course there wasn't a clear answer. Catholicism was a compromise. While we belive in the basic tenets of Christianity, we temper it with our own beliefs, ie not all gay people are going to hell, etc.

Hittin_Shots

06-29-2011, 11:34 PM

I would think young people with less responsiblity would have more insight into the big picture than older people who are tied down with bills and weight of everyday life.

but I don't see how religion provides greater insight once you are older. care to explain a little more? i'm honestly curious

Because ya gettin closer to death and ya don't wanna think ur jst gonna get eaten by worms or burnt in a fire after that. So of course you wanna find somethin that makes you believe your gonna live in the clouds till the end of time...

Bladers

06-30-2011, 02:03 PM

Well, because you are so extremely adamant in your belief about your invisible/imaginary friends and villains that it is comical. It's just tough to be taken seriously. I can't see how you live in the world you that you place yourself in. Have fun continuing with that though. I would never let a book written thousands of years ago, by humans, dictate the way I live my life, especially to the extent you are showing. But, if that's the kind of thing you're into and it helps you get by, so be it. Just don't expect people that don't believe in what you are saying to take it seriously.

You have to understand that in the eyes of an atheist, what you are posting is laughable and irrelevant to their life. If you are trying to converse with people that do not believe in your God and you bring God into the equation, it won't get you anywhere with them.

I will have a talk with you later on. I promise... maybe a month from now or so.

Bladers

06-30-2011, 02:21 PM

Are you really that stupid? Baptism has everything to do with the cleansing of sin. You don't even understand your own religion.

I'm not in a religion brother, True christianity is not a religion. Its fellowship with Jesus Christ the son of the living God.

And no, baptism has nothing to do with cleansing of sin. If you can find that in the bible then please tell me...

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Baptism is just a commandment given to us by Jesus to do, just like the Holy Communion.
*Now waits for him to visit his Catholics sites to look for a rebuttal*

Dude, do you even read your bible? How many times a week do you read it and how long? You seem to lack any biblical knowledge what so ever!

It has everything to do with the fact that you claim priests cannot hear confession. Who is supposed to administer the sacraments????? If you cannot baptize yourself, which you cannot, who is supposed to do it???

You won't answer these fundamental questions because you don't have any answers.

You can be baptized by anyone. You do not need a priest. Secondly baptism doesn't cleanse sin, nor does it save you. So lets get back to the real issue:

You say I claim "priests can't hear confessions." Show me where in the bible does it say I need to confess my sins to priests or that I should or can?
Show me please.

*I know you can't cause I doubt you have ever opened your bible... go back to that catholic site and post their rebuttals please.*

RainierBeachPoet

06-30-2011, 02:24 PM

:( :facepalm :cry: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :wtf: :confusedshrug: :rolleyes:

Rojogaqu11

06-30-2011, 02:35 PM

Bladers

06-30-2011, 02:43 PM

Bladers:

What you're saying is good and everything, but try to show some humility when trying to share the truths of the gospel, because in the way you're treating some other users of this forum, telling they're idiots, brainwashed, etc. only hurts your pseudo-evangelizing.

Are they really idiots? or brainwashed?

Look at your FIRST quote from the bible and what it says after that in Corinthians:

"20 Where is the wise person? Where is the teacher of the law? Where is the philosopher of this age? Has not God made foolish the wisdom of the world? 21 For since in the wisdom of God the world through its wisdom did not know him, God was pleased through the foolishness of what was preached to save those who believe. 22 Jews demand signs and Greeks look for wisdom, 23 but we preach Christ crucified: a stumbling block to Jews and foolishness to Gentiles, 24but to those whom God has called, both Jews and Greeks, Christ the power of God and the wisdom of God. 25 For the foolishness of God is wiser than human wisdom, and the weakness of God is stronger than human strength. "

What are you really accomplishing through 15+ pages of DISScussion? Did you discover the truth by your own wisdom? No. All of us are not idiots, and if you're trying to debate with idiots then you're wasting your time or just showing lack of humility, because what you say God is saying specifically to atheists: "Professing themselves to be wise, they became fools!", God is also saying it to you and all of us.

Because remember what the scripture says right after in the same chapter:

28 God chose the lowly things of this world and the despised things—and the things that are not—to nullify the things that are, 29 so that no one may boast before him. 30 It is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus, who has become for us wisdom from God—that is, our righteousness, holiness and redemption. 31 Therefore, as it is written: “Let the one who boasts boast in the Lord.”

In everything, don't appear prideful or boastful and don't set yourself above of others who may be as you were, because "it is because of him that you are in Christ Jesus".

I'm not being prideful and boostful... This is my ISH way of posting because of running so many troll accounts... the gimmick has rubbed off on me. :D

I don't talk like this anywhere else.

You must have missed my ether on "bdreason"
http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228092&page=2

and no I don't actually think anyone on this forum is an idiot, or brainwashed...
There might be some exceptions though :D

rufuspaul

06-30-2011, 02:47 PM

True christianity is not a religion.

It's just a state of mind then?

And no, baptism has nothing to do with cleansing of sin.
:wtf:

Baptism is just a commandment given to us by Jesus to do, just like the Holy Communion.
*Now waits for him to visit his Catholics sites to look for a rebuttal*

No. They are sacraments. And those Catholic sites you disparage are heavily annotated and tied to scripture.

You can be baptized by anyone. You do not need a priest.

True, but you can't baptize yourself. The person doing the baptizing is acting as an agent of Christ. Just like a priest.

Rojogaqu11

06-30-2011, 02:49 PM

So if you say so, then why are you trolling with a bible in hand? :confusedshrug:

RainierBeachPoet

06-30-2011, 02:53 PM

I'm not in a religion brother, True christianity is not a religion. Its fellowship with Jesus Christ the son of the living God.

And no, baptism has nothing to do with cleansing of sin. If you can find that in the bible then please tell me...

1 John 1:7
But if we walk in the light, as he is in the light, we have fellowship one with another, and the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin.

Baptism is just a commandment given to us by Jesus to do, just like the Holy Communion.
*Now waits for him to visit his Catholics sites to look for a rebuttal*

Dude, do you even read your bible? How many times a week do you read it and how long? You seem to lack any biblical knowledge what so ever!

You can be baptized by anyone. You do not need a priest. Secondly baptism doesn't cleanse sin, nor does it save you. So lets get back to the real issue:

You say I claim "priests can't hear confessions." Show me where in the bible does it say I need to confess my sins to priests or that I should or can?
Show me please.

*I know you can't cause I doubt you have ever opened your bible... go back to that catholic site and post their rebuttals please.*

there are so many misconceptions here, i do not know where to begin

and right now, i do not have the time to respond adequately

enough to say: please do your homework well as to what we catholics really believe and why before you misrepresent various aspects of our religion

Bladers

06-30-2011, 03:01 PM

It's just a state of mind then?

There are religion within Christianity, rules, regulations, do's and dont's, just going through the motions.

Then there is the true christianity:

John 17:3
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent."

:wtf:

Well then show me otherwise.
Using your bible (*cough...quote what the catholic site says...cough*)

And I will show you what the Bible says: "the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin." (1 John 1:7)

No. They are sacraments. And those Catholic sites you disparage are heavily annotated and tied to scripture.

And yet they are your only resort because you lack any biblical knowledge or foundation. So you have to turn to others beliefs when you get questioned about your beliefs.

2 Timothy 2:15
"Study to shew thyself approved unto God, a workman that needeth not to be ashamed, rightly dividing the word of truth."

Plus these sites butcher the scripture and use it out of context. There is no place in the bible are we to worship or bow down to mary, neither are we to pray to mary or any saint for that matter.

http://www.jesus-is-savior.com/False%20Religions/Roman%20Catholicism/idolatry-mary_worship.jpg

Deuteronomy 5:8-9
"Thou shalt not make thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the waters beneath the earth: Thou shalt not bow down thyself unto them."

Exodus 32:8
They have turned aside quickly out of the way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it

True, but you can't baptize yourself. The person doing the baptizing is acting as an agent of Christ. Just like a priest.

Actually I can baptize myself. :cheers:

Lastly what happened to showing me where in the bible we are to confess to priests?

Bladers

06-30-2011, 03:03 PM

So if you say so, then why are you trolling with a bible in hand? :confusedshrug:

I'm not trolling, I just respond towards idiotic posts that I read with "idiot, brainwashed or sheeple"

Just a bit of trolling sentiments that have stuck with me.

Bladers

06-30-2011, 03:14 PM

Well for me it came with having a child. The question arose: How are we going to raise our daughter? How should we behave as a family that reinforces our moral beliefs.?
Of course there wasn't a clear answer. Catholicism was a compromise. While we belive in the basic tenets of Christianity, we temper it with our own beliefs, ie not all gay people are going to hell, etc.

You see I have no problem with Catholics or priests. They can worship and pray to Mary all they want. I'm against it and will surely expose the heretical demonic doctrine.

But the main reason I have a problem with you, is mainly because of the bolded above. You turned the truth of God's word into a metaphoric book.

But that doesn't change what the bible says:

"So God abandoned them to do whatever shameful things their hearts desired. As a result, they did vile and degrading things with each other’s bodies.That is why God abandoned them to their shameful desires. Even the women turned against the natural way to have sex and instead indulged in sex with each other.

And the men, instead of having normal sexual relations with women, burned with lust for each other. Men did shameful things with other men, and as a result of this sin, they suffered within themselves the penalty they deserved. They know God’s justice requires that those who do these things deserve to die, yet they do them anyway. Worse yet, they encourage others to do them, too."

Romans 1.

Well spake the scripture about your kind rufus. "But if ye have bitter envying and strife in your hearts, glory not, and lie not against the truth. This wisdom descendeth not from above, but is earthly, sensual, devilish."

People like you get taken by their emotions, so because of that, they change the truth of God's word into a lie, then they claim the new wisdom as truth. But God says, that wisdom is not from heaven, its earthly, sensual and DEVILISH!