TRADE! Kings trade Omri Casspi, pick to Cavaliers for JJ Hickson

[MeLO MvP 15]

The Sacramento Kings today acquired forward-center J.J. Hickson from the Cleveland Cavaliers in exchange for forward Omri Casspi and a conditional future first-round draft pick, according to Kings’ President of Basketball Operations Geoff Petrie.

More info and quotes: http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=7916

[Godzuki]

kings HAVE to be throwing in more...

if they aren't i feel sorry for Cav's fans.

[jbryan1984]

ya cause I certainly am not down with that.

[Grinder]

kings HAVE to be throwing in more...

if they aren't i feel sorry for Cav's fans.

Why? They just drafted Tristan Thompson at 4 who's a very similar player and Casspi is an excellent player that couldn't get consistent PT this year because Westphal has retarded rotations.

[Sakkreth]

Cavs shouldn't do that.

[boozehound]

yeah, I actually think Casspi is a better player than hickson, who still hasnt really seemed to put it all together.

[hawkfan]

Amazing. One of the reasons the Cavs didn't want to trade for Amare was because they didn't want to give up Hickson.

If they had trade for Amare, LBJ and Amare would both be in Cleveland right now.

[ctown4eva]

Amazing. One of the reasons the Cavs didn't want to trade for Amare was because they didn't want to give up Hickson.

If they had trade for Amare, LBJ and Amare would both be in Cleveland right now.

No, Lebron was leaving anyways. Stop being revisionist; the holdup was on Phoenix's end, for good reason. They were getting screwed even with Hickson in the deal/

Anyway, surprised nobody posted that Kings' 1st round pick is also in the deal.

[MeLO MvP 15]

Draft night that were rumors of Douglas for Casspi. Hickson would be an absolutely great pick up for Sacramento. They have to be giving up more though... maybe Jason Thompson? Hasaan Whiteside?

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Lmfao if this deal goes down.

[Godzuki]

Why? They just drafted Tristan Thompson at 4 who's a very similar player and Casspi is an excellent player that couldn't get consistent PT this year because Westphal has retarded rotations.


JJ is a borderline star, on the cusp of it. he's WAY better than Casspi, who barely even cracked the Kings rotation. i'm not saying Casspi is terrible, since he's tall, athletic, and can knock down 3's, but JJ is a WAY better and more proven player. its not even close.

JJ came into his own last year. before last year i'd say he was overrated and maybe a bust, but last year when he was getting shots and run, he was beasting more games than not. i mean putting up damn near 20/10 type numbers...

[HylianNightmare]

they better get more from sac or that's robbery

[hawkfan]

No, Lebron was leaving anyways. Stop being revisionist; the holdup was on Phoenix's end, for good reason. They were getting screwed even with Hickson in the deal/

Anyway, surprised nobody posted that Kings' 1st round pick is also in the deal.

And losing Amare for nothing was better? They would have still had that cap space, since they would have gotten Big Z's expirer and also had Hickson.

[FireDavidKahn]

JJ is a borderline star, on the cusp of it. he's WAY better than Casspi, who barely even cracked the Kings rotation. i'm not saying Casspi is terrible, since he's tall, athletic, and can knock down 3's, but JJ is a WAY better and more proven player. its not even close.

JJ came into his own last year. before last year i'd say he was overrated and maybe a bust, but last year when he was getting shots and run, he was beasting more games than not. i mean putting up damn near 20/10 type numbers...
A borderline star?:lol Please. Hickson will never be a star nor make an all star game.

[jbryan1984]

Amazing. One of the reasons the Cavs didn't want to trade for Amare was because they didn't want to give up Hickson.

If they had trade for Amare, LBJ and Amare would both be in Cleveland right now.



The word is that they turned us down but I know if we gave Hickson up, we wanted more than just having Amar'e for a couple months. He wanted a big name city.

[Rowe]

Are you kidding me? They want to move Hickson for Casspi?

I thought they could do better than that.

[jbryan1984]

A borderline star?:lol Please. Hickson will never be a star nor make an all star game.



Ehhh. I would not say that. He is still only 22, crazier things have happened in the NBA. He has improved every year he has been in the league and has shown explosiveness at times, it just needs to be consistent. Still, I would not be happy trading JJ straight up for Casspi. Give me Casspi and Greene or Casspi and Thompson, I might be a little happier.

[LBJMVP]

Amazing. One of the reasons the Cavs didn't want to trade for Amare was because they didn't want to give up Hickson.

If they had trade for Amare, LBJ and Amare would both be in Cleveland right now.

how many times do cleveland fans have to tell you that we did throw in hickson, but phoenix backed down.

[ctown4eva]

Are you kidding me? They want to move Hickson for Casspi?

I thought they could do better than that.

1st round pick foo.

Read.

[FireDavidKahn]

Ehhh. I would not say that. He is still only 22, crazier things have happened in the NBA. He has improved every year he has been in the league and has shown explosiveness at times, it just needs to be consistent. Still, I would not be happy trading JJ straight up for Casspi. Give me Casspi and Greene or Casspi and Thompson, I might be a little happier.
I'm not trying to say Hickson sucks or anything, but I don't see him becoming anything more than a very solid starting caliber 4. Regardless, Hickson >>>> Casspi.

[KingJay718]

Amazing. One of the reasons the Cavs didn't want to trade for Amare was because they didn't want to give up Hickson.

If they had trade for Amare, LBJ and Amare would both be in Cleveland right now.


:roll: Amare wouldn't have re-upped with the Cavs.

Good trade. Seems even. The SF slot in Cleveland was a revolving door last season. OC had a sophmore slump last season, but I haven't lost faith in his talents. JJ Hickson is a good player.

[boozehound]

JJ is a borderline star, on the cusp of it. he's WAY better than Casspi, who barely even cracked the Kings rotation. i'm not saying Casspi is terrible, since he's tall, athletic, and can knock down 3's, but JJ is a WAY better and more proven player. its not even close.

JJ came into his own last year. before last year i'd say he was overrated and maybe a bust, but last year when he was getting shots and run, he was beasting more games than not. i mean putting up damn near 20/10 type numbers...
WTF. Now, sure, he was a much improved player last year (mostly from getting more run), but this shit is over the top. Dude put up 14/9 on 45% shooting. He will never be a star. 20/10 my ass

[LJJ]

I don't know why Hickson has such a good reputation in ISH. Is he really really good on NBA2k or something?

Hickson is an average rebounder and a below average everything else. I don't see him becoming much better than this either. Pretty even roleplayer trade.

[teddytwelvetoes]

JJ is a borderline star, on the cusp of it. he's WAY better than Casspi, who barely even cracked the Kings rotation. i'm not saying Casspi is terrible, since he's tall, athletic, and can knock down 3's, but JJ is a WAY better and more proven player. its not even close.

JJ came into his own last year. before last year i'd say he was overrated and maybe a bust, but last year when he was getting shots and run, he was beasting more games than not. i mean putting up damn near 20/10 type numbers...lol @ "borderline star"

[Godzuki]

A borderline star?:lol Please. Hickson will never be a star nor make an all star game.


did you watch Cle much last year? he was dominant some games. only problem is he makes dumb mistakes or fumbles the ball a lot, or is wishy washy where he doesn't show up some games, but he can dominate when he does.

i'd say at the very least he's well above average at the position, and could end up a star. like i said borderline....

and Casspi is nowhere near IMO. not saying he can't be better with higher value, if anything its probably low due to his PT in Sac, but as of now he isn't remotely close to JJ's value IMO.

[ctown4eva]

Hickson averaged 17/12 post ASB.

[FireDavidKahn]

Official and done


basketballtalk Kurt Helin
by docktora
Pick goes to Cavs RT @mr_jasonjones: Trade is done. Omri Casspi headed to Cleveland for J.J. HIckson and a conditional first round pick.
6 minutes ago Favorite Retweet Reply

[wally_world]

Hopefully its not a 2012 pick, i wanna see SacTown pick up Perry Jones, or James McAdoo.

[LBJMVP]

i read it most likely top 10 protected

[ctown4eva]

Sounds like it is lottery protected, which is a bad deal.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Official and done
:facepalm

Good news for Sac fans

[kaiiu]

wtf type stupid shit is this :facepalm

hickson>> casspi

[Godzuki]

Official and done


man i'll be surprised if Cav fans aren't railing against Dan Gilbert between the 4 pick and this trade. IMO this trade is horrible, should've at least been a lottery pick.

[Nets fan 93]

The cavs also get a 1st round pick. but it's lotto protected the 1st year... then top 10 protected... :facepalm
SAC WINS this trade

[miles berg]

Great, great trade for Cleveland. OC is alot better than you guys are giving him credit for. He will the MIP in the NBA next year.

[LBJMVP]

The cavs also get a 1st round pick. but it's lotto protected the 1st year... then top 10 protected... :facepalm
SAC WINS this trade

i thought we could get better for hickson, but obviously cleveland wants thompson to start and hickson would presumibly be angry with that so cleveland had to get a deal done before the lock out. i wish it was top 10 protected this year but it's whatever. now hickson has to play behind cousins and casspi could get solid minutes in cleveland, we did need a tall small forward and he has proven he could score.

[insidehoops]

The trade is official: http://www.insidehoops.com/blog/?p=7916

[MeLO MvP 15]

Damn. Sacramento just added a perfect compliment to there young core. If they could add a pass first PG (and move Jimmer or Thornton to 6th man) they'd have a bright future.

I get the Cavs want a SF, but I'd have to think they can do better.... but I guess not lol

[Zackmorris]

Kings did good. I think the Kings will be a solid team. Cavs could've done better.

[LBJMVP]

Damn. Sacramento just added a perfect compliment to there young core. If they could add a pass first PG (and move Jimmer or Thornton to 6th man) they'd have a bright future.

I get the Cavs want a SF, but I'd have to think they can do better.... but I guess not lol

like i said, they obviously wanted tristan to start this season and hickson would have requested a trade if that happened most likely. and since the lockout could start tonight at 12:00 it was now or never.

[AMISTILLILL]

I've loved Hickson's game for the past couple of seasons and always wished he got more playing time when LeBron was in Cleveland. It's great that I'll be able to see him play a lot around here (if the Kings don't relocate at least). He's starting to come into his own and will complement what the Kings have developing right now nicely. Only thing I'm fearful about is an overall lack of veteran presence on a team boasting young guys with strong personalities and chips on their shoulders. Salmons is a start but, depending on if he starts/his role in Westphal's rotation, who knows how motivated he'll even be to be back in Sacramento.

The Cleveland side of this trade is a little odd to me. They praised Hickson as an integral part of the rebuild and refused to throw him into prior trades, then turn around and trade him for Casspi and a first round pick. Casspi will be a great fit at the 3 in Cleveland, but I'm convinced the Cavs could have fielded more offers and potentially received more in return.

Maybe Cleveland already has their sights set on a guy in next years draft and wanted to acquire a high pick without tanking a whole season?

[thejumpa]

Cleveland lost.

[Chicago Brawls]

i'd be surprised if any of these teams wins 30 games next season.

[LBJMVP]

Cleveland lost.

if it made us worse than we won. cause all the crappy teams in the league are fighting for harrison barnes next season!


:rockon:

[OG LeeTSkeeT]

The same Hickson whom Cavs did not want to include in a deal for Amare? :facepalm :roll:

[LBJMVP]

The same Hickson whom Cavs did not want to include in a deal for Amare? :facepalm :roll:

:facepalm

[hawkfan]

The same Hickson whom Cavs did not want to include in a deal for Amare? :facepalm :roll:

Exactly. That's what I said. Makes no sense at all, except that Hickson might have been mad about the Thompson draft pick and let it be known that he wanted out.

[Dasher]

The Kings are putting together a interesting collection of big men, who have eclectic talents.

[Skywalker]

Hickson sucks good move by Cavs to increase Tristan Thompson's PT.

[LaysUpBricks]

I hate to see Casspi go because he was such a fan favorite. But he fell behind on the depth chart because of fatigue and inconsistency.
But in Sac we had 5 players who play SF with a front court that was thinning. We still have plenty of cap space to add a big name too.

[MeLO MvP 15]

I hope this makes Jason Thompson available...

"Geoff Petrie, line one... it's the Knicks... something about Toney Douglas..."

[All Net]

:wtf: Cavs were so high on Hickson yet trade him for THAT?

[LBJ4MVP23]

Insane trade for the kings, just awesome. But how much does it SUCK that they moved beno? You now have a line up of Cousins, Hickson, Salmons, Thornton, and Tyreke with Jimmer as the 6th man.

Why the hell did they move the only pure passer they had? Keep beno starting and have thornton as a possible 6th man of the year candidate in the future. Then you have a legit passer and floor general with real experience. I love the talent but its gonna be a bunch of former zach randolphs imo. Who ever touches the ball first is FIRING.

Why wouldnt you keep beno, a real pg, and draft leanord? Or if you LOVE jimmer, draft him, but keep beno to have a legit passer. I hate that trade so much.

[DMAVS41]

:wtf: Cavs were so high on Hickson yet trade him for THAT?

LOL

I wonder if Cavs fans still think "Hickson's potential" should have been enough to keep Lebron from leaving.

:lol

[bagelred]

Insert Omri Casspi jewish joke here.

[RedBlackAttack]

The same Hickson whom Cavs did not want to include in a deal for Amare? :facepalm :roll:
Hey retard!

Hickson was included in the deal... Phoenix turned it down. Can I make that a permanent signature in every post that I make? Seriously, this is one dense crowd. People just don't get it. :hammerhead:


The confusion continues from my side as to what the Cavs' plan is, here... This is essentially Casspi for Hickson, straight up. Hickson may be a block head and have stone hands, but he did average 20/12 in the last month+ of the 2011 season. You are going to give that up for a bench player and a pick that we will never see?

The only thing I can figure is that this is a preemptive move, because JJ has a contract situation on the horizon.

[RedBlackAttack]

LOL

I wonder if Cavs fans still think "Hickson's potential" should have been enough to keep Lebron from leaving.

:lol
:hammerhead:

Dense.

[DMAVS41]

:hammerhead:

Dense.

What? I've had that argument thrown at me a number of times by Cavs fans.

How is that dense? LOL

I just wonder if they are willing to admit they over-rated the shit out of him.

[kaiiu]

I fvcking hate chris Grant.

[RedBlackAttack]

What? I've had that argument thrown at me a number of times by Cavs fans.

How is that dense? LOL

I just wonder if they are willing to admit they over-rated the shit out of him.
I'd like you to find that post where a Cavs fan said exactly what you have re-stated again and again... Because you originally tried to attribute it to me and I know I never posted any such thing.

I think you made it up, personally.

[DMAVS41]

I'd like you to find that post where a Cavs fan said exactly what you have re-stated again and again... Because you originally tried to attribute it to me and I know I never posted any such thing.

I think you made it up, personally.

You definitely insinuated that a number of times in our talks.

I will look. Cavs fans on here definitely threw out the "hickson potential" as reasons for Lebron to stay.

LOL @ Cavs fans. At least they are loyal. You still think your front office does a great job?

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

[RedBlackAttack]

You definitely insinuated that a number of times in our talks.


Nope... Never did. I was never even that high on Hickson. The guy drove me nuts during his tenure in Cleveland.

[kaiiu]

Gino, u mad?

[Godzuki]

Insane trade for the kings, just awesome. But how much does it SUCK that they moved beno? You now have a line up of Cousins, Hickson, Salmons, Thornton, and Tyreke with Jimmer as the 6th man.

Why the hell did they move the only pure passer they had? Keep beno starting and have thornton as a possible 6th man of the year candidate in the future. Then you have a legit passer and floor general with real experience. I love the talent but its gonna be a bunch of former zach randolphs imo. Who ever touches the ball first is FIRING.

Why wouldnt you keep beno, a real pg, and draft leanord? Or if you LOVE jimmer, draft him, but keep beno to have a legit passer. I hate that trade so much.


its because Tyreke basically needs the ball in his hands to be him. i agree i LOVE Beno's game(very underrated IMO) but whenever i'd watch him play with Tyreke, its like they didn't fit, and had to take turns just so Tyreke would get his shots or drives in, and they clearly wanted Tyreke to take all or most of their shots when he was healthy.

Beno played a lot better when Tyreke was hurt and got to run the offense in more regular sets. Tyreke loves iso 1v1 and drives where everyone else is more or less watching. he's a great player, imo one of the best drivers in the league, probably the best, if he were healthy so i can't blame the Kings. it just sux they have to get rid of Beno.

Kings are looking pretty stacked at every position now. they're going to be fun to watch. i'll still be supporting my boy Beno tho, imo he's better than that chucker Jennings, at the very least plays much smarter.

[DMAVS41]

Gino, u mad?

Not at all. I could care less about the Cavs. I just think its funny....and a little sad.

3 years of hearing about Hickson's potential and now he's gone. Cavs fine front office work at it again.

Hey, at least they didn't botch the 4th pick......

Oh wait.........:facepalm

[LaysUpBricks]

Insane trade for the kings, just awesome. But how much does it SUCK that they moved beno? You now have a line up of Cousins, Hickson, Salmons, Thornton, and Tyreke with Jimmer as the 6th man.

Why the hell did they move the only pure passer they had? Keep beno starting and have thornton as a possible 6th man of the year candidate in the future. Then you have a legit passer and floor general with real experience. I love the talent but its gonna be a bunch of former zach randolphs imo. Who ever touches the ball first is FIRING.

Why wouldnt you keep beno, a real pg, and draft leanord? Or if you LOVE jimmer, draft him, but keep beno to have a legit passer. I hate that trade so much.

Yeah it was a bad trade. But the Kings have been high on Salmons because he does provide consistent perimeter defending, and he can play the SF position. The Kings didn't want to draft another raw talent who was inflated by the weak draft because they didn't want to wait while he develops.

[RedBlackAttack]

You still think your front office does a great job?

For a DWade/Mavs fan, you do a lot of thinking about Cleveland.

And, actually -- although I don't agree with the drafting of TT and trading Hickson for nothing -- I do think that the FO has done a pretty good job in the last year. We essentially bought the No. 1 pick in the draft and got rid of some dead weight.

[Force]

LOL @ the Cavs

Is Tristan supposed to be a starter off the bat? Varejao should be ready to go at Center this season. I thought Hickson at 4 with Tristan learning to play off the bench would be fine for them. Even if they wanted to move Hickson, they could have gotten more in return. The draft pick is going to be nice in a couple of years though.

The Cavs priority should be to move Jamison and Baron. those two are getting $30,000,000 next season.

As for the Kings, the trade is a no brainer since they are overflooded with guards. Sammy D is gone. I like Jason Thompson too but he's probably on his way out. They will look to package him with one of their perimeter guys and get back a solid vet who can play right away.

[boozehound]

I'd like you to find that post where a Cavs fan said exactly what you have re-stated again and again... Because you originally tried to attribute it to me and I know I never posted any such thing.

I think you made it up, personally.
nope. back in the lebron bandwagon days, when 1/3rd of the board seemed to be cavs fans, the overrating of hickson (lebrons future running mate, a beast, blah) was through the roof. Not by you, necc., but the various ig'nant fanbois

[LBJMVP]

Not at all. I could care less about the Cavs. I just think its funny....and a little sad.

3 years of hearing about Hickson's potential and now he's gone. Cavs fine front office work at it again.

Hey, at least they didn't botch the 4th pick......

Oh wait.........:facepalm

you realize some experts had thompson as the 3rd best players in the draft right?

[LBJMVP]

besides all hickson's super potential has gotten us is practically the same career averages as casspi.

[RedBlackAttack]

nope. back in the lebron bandwagon days, when 1/3rd of the board seemed to be cavs fans, the overrating of hickson (lebrons future running mate, a beast, blah) was through the roof. Not by you, necc., but the various ig'nant fanbois
So, it could have very easily been one of the hoards of people that have since changed their username or admittedly jumped ship? I won't vouch for those people.

[kaiiu]

Not at all. I could care less about the Cavs. I just think its funny....and a little sad.

3 years of hearing about Hickson's potential and now he's gone. Cavs fine front office work at it again.

Hey, at least they didn't botch the 4th pick......

Oh wait.........:facepalm
Chris Grant is a idiot. Who denied that :confusedshrug:

[DMAVS41]

nope. back in the lebron bandwagon days, when 1/3rd of the board seemed to be cavs fans, the overrating of hickson (lebrons future running mate, a beast, blah) was through the roof. Not by you, necc., but the various ig'nant fanbois

Yep.

It was rampant here.

[kaiiu]

btw yall do realize when yall say Cavs "fans", yall mean Lebron fans who hate the Cavs now.

[DMAVS41]

For a DWade/Mavs fan, you do a lot of thinking about Cleveland.

And, actually -- although I don't agree with the drafting of TT and trading Hickson for nothing -- I do think that the FO has done a pretty good job in the last year. We essentially bought the No. 1 pick in the draft and got rid of some dead weight.

I spend time thinking about basketball. Over the last year? Yea, I actually do like what the Cavs have done.

I was talking about the previous 7. I don't like their draft this year, but its a crap shoot anyway with level of talent of this years' class.

The only thing I ever had against the Cavs/fans is when people tried to act like the team did a great job building the team around Lebron. I thought they did a crap job.

Just like I think the Mavs did a pretty crap job building around Dirk for a good 7 year stretch.

[alenleomessi]

season hasnt even started and cavs are already tanking for that first pick in 2012

[RedBlackAttack]

I spend time thinking about basketball. Over the last year? Yea, I actually do like what the Cavs have done.

I was talking about the previous 7. I don't like their draft this year, but its a crap shoot anyway with level of talent of this years' class.

The only thing I ever had against the Cavs/fans is when people tried to act like the team did a great job building the team around Lebron. I thought they did a crap job.

Just like I think the Mavs did a pretty crap job building around Dirk for a good 7 year stretch.
I don't think James was ever the player that I thought he was, so I'm glad he left and I can now hope for him to fail... The more I've thought about it since his latest collapse, he wasn't ever going to win being the primary piece in Cleveland unless we simply overwhelmed the league with talent (which is what Miami is trying to do) and the Cavs were never going to be in a position to do that.

He saved us a lot of heartbreak by taking off.

We may not win a title in the coming years, but at least the expectations won't be there to do so, followed by a huge letdown.

[RedBlackAttack]

season hasnt even started and cavs are already tanking for that first pick in 2012
If that is really the mindset, I'm with it. That is how you rebuild a team, not by being painfully mediocre every year and hoping that a mid-round pick or a move in free agency pushes you over the top.

[kaiiu]

I don't think James was ever the player that I thought he was, so I'm glad he left and I can now hope for him to fail... The more I've thought about it since his latest collapse, he wasn't ever going to win being the primary piece in Cleveland unless we simply overwhelmed the league with talent (which is what Miami is trying to do) and the Cavs were never going to be in a position to do that.

He saved us a lot of heartbreak by taking off.

We may not win a title in the coming years, but at least the expectations won't be there to do so, followed by a huge letdown.
:bowdown: :lol :oldlol: :roll: :applause: ...BURN

[Godzuki]

nope. back in the lebron bandwagon days, when 1/3rd of the board seemed to be cavs fans, the overrating of hickson (lebrons future running mate, a beast, blah) was through the roof. Not by you, necc., but the various ig'nant fanbois


hickson really came into his own last year as the season wore on, and he got regular 30+ min's and shots. the Hickson you're talking about was extremely wishy washy, and played a lot more scared/less sure of himself. Imo thats a completely different JJ than last year. JJ was a beast last year, especially 2nd half of the season.

i wasn't JJ's biggest fan before last season if anything i'd say he was a bust, but i also think its real hard to play with someone like Lebron and expected to play real well with very limited opportunities.

[Clippersfan86]

For those who haven't watched both players this isn't a bad trade. Kings get a veteran player who's a good player but pretty tapped out on potential in my opinion. Cavs get a legit SF which they need very badly (Alonzo Gee....) who has a ton of upside.

Hickson is the better player now, Omri has way more upside. Omri is underrated defensively and his offensive game is pretty. Reminds me of Rudy Fernandez how he can not only bury you from outside... but can drive the lane and dunk on you. Good athlete.. not in the mold of most foreign players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6t7Qam9Rlk

Edit: Haha of course his top play of the season was against the Clippers.

[Godzuki]

you realize some experts had thompson as the 3rd best players in the draft right?


i don't think many did, i think a lot of teams had him at like #6~

who knows tho, i won't judge more than him being picked earlier than most people thought.

[RedBlackAttack]

i don't think many did, i think a lot of teams had him at like #6~

who knows tho, i won't judge more than him being picked earlier than most people thought.
Hollinger had him at 3... And maybe Bucher. There were at least two big wigs over at ESPN.com that had Thompson inside their Top 3. I know Hollinger was one... Not sure on the other.

Since the draft, I've read that the Cavs use a rating system similar to the one Hollinger uses when evaluating talent... And that it has been enormously successful for players (not just the ones that they have selected) in the past.

You look at where they got Hickson in the draft... He was arguably the best player on the board, in retrospect.... The same thing goes for Christian Eyenga, who had everyone scratching their heads. Turns out, the guy has crazy potential.

Their last several drafts, they have taken what has turned out to be arguably the best player on the board in retrospect.

[AMISTILLILL]

Insane trade for the kings, just awesome. But how much does it SUCK that they moved beno? You now have a line up of Cousins, Hickson, Salmons, Thornton, and Tyreke with Jimmer as the 6th man.

Why the hell did they move the only pure passer they had? Keep beno starting and have thornton as a possible 6th man of the year candidate in the future. Then you have a legit passer and floor general with real experience. I love the talent but its gonna be a bunch of former zach randolphs imo. Who ever touches the ball first is FIRING.

Why wouldnt you keep beno, a real pg, and draft leanord? Or if you LOVE jimmer, draft him, but keep beno to have a legit passer. I hate that trade so much.

They're obviously not done making moves.

[NuggetsFan]

I don't think James was ever the player that I thought he was, so I'm glad he left and I can now hope for him to fail... The more I've thought about it since his latest collapse, he wasn't ever going to win being the primary piece in Cleveland unless we simply overwhelmed the league with talent (which is what Miami is trying to do) and the Cavs were never going to be in a position to do that.

He saved us a lot of heartbreak by taking off.

We may not win a title in the coming years, but at least the expectations won't be there to do so, followed by a huge letdown.

Your so butthurt It's not even funny anymore :lol . Glad he left? Yup I'm sure the rest of Cleveland was pumped as well. Reminds me of a guy getting dumped and being crushed but whenever it's brang up it's simply "I don't even care, she was a bitch anyways".

He wasn't ever going to win being the primary piece in Cleveland? What a load of shit. He won 60+ games two years in a row. Ran into a tough Boston team and an Orlando Magic did that had Howard who was a huge mismatch for them. That's what makes the move hilarious. He may never won a ring but a finals app, 2 60 win seasons? He was eventually going to get extremely close.

You may not win a title? No you 100% won't win a title in the next 7 years. I'll bet my life on it. You'll be near the basement next year. Hope you draft a player even close to as good as James. Most likely? You'll just be a playoff team. Who needs expectations, I'd also rather a rebuilding team than a team that's a contender. Magic should probably just dump Dwight Howard now. Save Magic fans the heartbreak because he'll probably never win a ring in Orlando, just win regular season games and maybe make another playoff run or two. Who needs that. Rebuild .. no expectations.

Cleveland fans are a complete and utter joke. Only people that make me laugh when they hate on James. It was you guy's blowing him for 7 years. The only reason he's not the player you thought he was is because he made a joke out of your franchise on live television :oldlol:

[alanLA92]

Amazing. One of the reasons the Cavs didn't want to trade for Amare was because they didn't want to give up Hickson.

If they had trade for Amare, LBJ and Amare would both be in Cleveland right now.

Nope they both would of left if they lost in the 2010 playoffs anyways.

[kaiiu]

no team is ever winning a ring with Lebron as a primary option. Ask Miami

[AMISTILLILL]

For those who haven't watched both players this isn't a bad trade. Kings get a veteran player who's a good player but pretty tapped out on potential in my opinion. Cavs get a legit SF which they need very badly (Alonzo Gee....) who has a ton of upside.

Hickson is the better player now, Omri has way more upside. Omri is underrated defensively and his offensive game is pretty. Reminds me of Rudy Fernandez how he can not only bury you from outside... but can drive the lane and dunk on you. Good athlete.. not in the mold of most foreign players.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E6t7Qam9Rlk

Edit: Haha of course his top play of the season was against the Clippers.

I wouldn't necessarily call 3 years pro a 'veteran'...

[NuggetsFan]

no team is ever winning a ring with Lebron as a primary option. Ask Miami

You mean the team that made the finals? The same place LeBron was with Cleveland? Guy has the mental stability of a 14 year old girl but there's no denying he can get you there. He did it with a stacked team in Miami and did it in Cleveland.

It's like people actually think there is parody in the NBA. Getting to the finals is a HUGE accomplishment for a team. I've never seen Denver in the finals and I doubt I will in the next 10 years. Hate LeBron for being a choker or a mental midget. Douchebag or whatever. Cleveland fans acting like ohhh what we didn't even want him and didn't do anything for us. Can't win a ring with him as your number 1 anyways. You guy's are treating him like he was Rudy Gay or something.

[TylerOO]

Your so butthurt It's not even funny anymore :lol . Glad he left? Yup I'm sure the rest of Cleveland was pumped as well. Reminds me of a guy getting dumped and being crushed but whenever it's brang up it's simply "I don't even care, she was a bitch anyways".

He wasn't ever going to win being the primary piece in Cleveland? What a load of shit. He won 60+ games two years in a row. Ran into a tough Boston team and an Orlando Magic did that had Howard who was a huge mismatch for them. That's what makes the move hilarious. He may never won a ring but a finals app, 2 60 win seasons? He was eventually going to get extremely close.

You may not win a title? No you 100% won't win a title in the next 7 years. I'll bet my life on it. You'll be near the basement next year. Hope you draft a player even close to as good as James. Most likely? You'll just be a playoff team. Who needs expectations, I'd also rather a rebuilding team than a team that's a contender. Magic should probably just dump Dwight Howard now. Save Magic fans the heartbreak because he'll probably never win a ring in Orlando, just win regular season games and maybe make another playoff run or two. Who needs that. Rebuild .. no expectations.

Cleveland fans are a complete and utter joke. Only people that make me laugh when they hate on James. It was you guy's blowing him for 7 years. The only reason he's not the player you thought he was is because he made a joke out of your franchise on live television :oldlol:


:applause: :applause: :applause: Fcuking owned that butthurt Cleveland fan lmao...


Cavs just making terrible moves this offseason. Drafting that garbage guy at pick no.4 and then trading one of their top 2 players for a freaking Anthony Parker 2.0

[wheatonbrando]

The biggest problem with this trade is that Hickson is only 22. He's basically the age of a college graduate. You just don't give up on a very talented young post player like that. You can't.

[LJJ]

The biggest problem with this trade is that Hickson is only 22. He's basically the age of a college graduate. You just don't give up on a very talented young post player like that. You can't.

Hickson is like 3 months younger than Casspi and has more NBA experience.

Power Forwards are dime a dozen in the NBA, it's the most bloated position in the league. Especially power forwards who can score 13 points on 45% shooting playing for the worst team in the league.

I think the only starters in the NBA who wouldn't be able to do that are Humphries and whoever starts for Phoenix.

[RedBlackAttack]

Your so butthurt It's not even funny anymore :lol . Glad he left? Yup I'm sure the rest of Cleveland was pumped as well. Reminds me of a guy getting dumped and being crushed but whenever it's brang up it's simply "I don't even care, she was a bitch anyways".

He wasn't ever going to win being the primary piece in Cleveland? What a load of shit. He won 60+ games two years in a row. Ran into a tough Boston team and an Orlando Magic did that had Howard who was a huge mismatch for them. That's what makes the move hilarious. He may never won a ring but a finals app, 2 60 win seasons? He was eventually going to get extremely close.

You may not win a title? No you 100% won't win a title in the next 7 years. I'll bet my life on it. You'll be near the basement next year. Hope you draft a player even close to as good as James. Most likely? You'll just be a playoff team. Who needs expectations, I'd also rather a rebuilding team than a team that's a contender. Magic should probably just dump Dwight Howard now. Save Magic fans the heartbreak because he'll probably never win a ring in Orlando, just win regular season games and maybe make another playoff run or two. Who needs that. Rebuild .. no expectations.

Cleveland fans are a complete and utter joke. Only people that make me laugh when they hate on James. It was you guy's blowing him for 7 years. The only reason he's not the player you thought he was is because he made a joke out of your franchise on live television :oldlol:
Do you honestly expect anyone to read all of that drivel? I mean, it would be one thing if it was written by a poster that was -- you know -- worth a sh!t... But, you have to know your place and post accordingly.

That is a bunch of wasted keystrokes.

[ctown4eva]

Your so butthurt It's not even funny anymore :lol . Glad he left? Yup I'm sure the rest of Cleveland was pumped as well. Reminds me of a guy getting dumped and being crushed but whenever it's brang up it's simply "I don't even care, she was a bitch anyways".

He wasn't ever going to win being the primary piece in Cleveland? What a load of shit. He won 60+ games two years in a row. Ran into a tough Boston team and an Orlando Magic did that had Howard who was a huge mismatch for them. That's what makes the move hilarious. He may never won a ring but a finals app, 2 60 win seasons? He was eventually going to get extremely close.

You may not win a title? No you 100% won't win a title in the next 7 years. I'll bet my life on it. You'll be near the basement next year. Hope you draft a player even close to as good as James. Most likely? You'll just be a playoff team. Who needs expectations, I'd also rather a rebuilding team than a team that's a contender. Magic should probably just dump Dwight Howard now. Save Magic fans the heartbreak because he'll probably never win a ring in Orlando, just win regular season games and maybe make another playoff run or two. Who needs that. Rebuild .. no expectations.

Cleveland fans are a complete and utter joke. Only people that make me laugh when they hate on James. It was you guy's blowing him for 7 years. The only reason he's not the player you thought he was is because he made a joke out of your franchise on live television :oldlol:

You're a short sighted fool. I totally agree with that guy. I wasn't happy James left, but it's a year past now and I'm over it and I am able to look at the positives. One of those positives is this: he was no Jordan. He was a Pippen. And Pippen doesn't win titles on his own. FACT. We weren't going anywhere with him.

Saying I'm glad he left is not entirely true, but **** if I'm unable to see the positives of it.

In fact I think the parting of ways was mutually beneficial for both the Cavs, who got rid of a quitter and a guy who refused to commit and thus handicapped the team, and for LeBron, who went to a team that will actually win a title.

[ctown4eva]

I spend time thinking about basketball. Over the last year? Yea, I actually do like what the Cavs have done.

I was talking about the previous 7. I don't like their draft this year, but its a crap shoot anyway with level of talent of this years' class.

The only thing I ever had against the Cavs/fans is when people tried to act like the team did a great job building the team around Lebron. I thought they did a crap job.

Just like I think the Mavs did a pretty crap job building around Dirk for a good 7 year stretch.

Hindsight is 20/20, they did a crap job in hindsight but look at what they had to work with: no good draft picks and a superstar who REFUSED to commit to the team or recruit players.

[TylerOO]

You're a short sighted fool. I totally agree with that guy. I wasn't happy James left, but it's a year past now and I'm over it and I am able to look at the positives. One of those positives is this: he was no Jordan. He was a Pippen. And Pippen doesn't win titles on his own. FACT. We weren't going anywhere with him.

Saying I'm glad he left is not entirely true, but **** if I'm unable to see the positives of it.

In fact I think the parting of ways was mutually beneficial for both the Cavs, who got rid of a quitter and a guy who refused to commit and thus handicapped the team, and for LeBron, who went to a team that will actually win a title.

Do you honestly expect anyone to read all of that drivel? I mean, it would be one thing if it was written by a poster that was -- you know -- worth a sh!t... But, you have to know your place and post accordingly.

That is a bunch of wasted keystrokes.

[kaiiu]

real talks.

Lebron cant win with Wade and Bosh. No way in hell was he winning with Hickson. He needs Magic and Bird

[ctown4eva]

Do you honestly expect anyone to read all of that drivel? I mean, it would be one thing if it was written by a poster that was -- you know -- worth a sh!t... But, you have to know your place and post accordingly.

That is a bunch of wasted keystrokes.

The equivalent of a decent sized paragraph is beyond your reading comprehension, you take the time to still reply to it anyways, AND THEN... and then!!! ... you decide to insult me for not being a regular poster.

:facepalm

Are these forums that bad?

[Bosnian Sajo]

Oh Cleveland...

[bisk]

"The first round pick acquired from Sacramento is lottery-protected in 2012 (1-14). The pick is then protected in 2013 (1-13), 2014 (1-12) and 2015-2017 (1-10). If the pick is not conveyed by 2017, then Sacramento will convey its own 2017 second round draft pick to the Cavaliers protected (56-60)."

Wow.
I don't know, Hickson was having some bad spells earlier in the season, but when Scott ****ing set him straight he was scoring double-doubles at will almost. But that protection bs is....I just vomited a lil'

[TylerOO]

The equivalent of a decent sized paragraph is beyond your reading comprehension, you take the time to still reply to it anyways, AND THEN... and then!!! ... you decide to insult me for not being a regular poster.

:facepalm

Are these forums that bad?

Apparently you didnt see a couple posts before yours. I was mocking that butthurt Clevelander. Chill out there little guy.

[ctown4eva]

Apparently you didnt see a couple posts before yours. I was mocking that butthurt Clevelander. Chill out there little guy.

I missed it- but I still agree with his original point.

That Nuggets guy is a retard.

[TylerOO]

I missed it- but I still agree with his original point.

That Nuggets guy is a retard.

Maybe in your guys opinion. But that RedBlack guy is acting like he is on a high horse cause he post here 24/7

[ProfessorMurder]

What's Sac's depth chart looking like right now?

[TylerOO]

What's Sac's depth chart looking like right now?

Evans/Fredette
Thornton/Garcia
Salmons/Donte Greene
Hickson/Thompson
Cousins

Thats my guess.

[jbryan1984]

OK I'm not here to get into the weekly LeBron bs, just wanted to comment on this now that it is official. This is probably the first deal we have made I did not like in several years. I just do not see the reasoning and Sac def got the better deal, good job by them. Hopefully Casspi can work out for us at the 3, Eyenga and Harangody can play with him with Jamison, Tristan and Samules running the 4. Nothing to kick myself over or be "butt hurt" over like Heat fans would say but don't like the deal.

[ctown4eva]

Maybe in your guys opinion. But that RedBlack guy is acting like he is on a high horse cause he post here 24/7

Ok that's fine if you think that, all I care about is his point he made and I agree with it. He's right. And really, is it that hard to see that it was mutually beneficial for Cavs and Bron to split up? He wasnt gonna win a title, and he was detrimental to the Cavs as they were detrimental to him in that manner.

[GOBB]

no team is ever winning a ring with Lebron as a primary option. Ask Miami

You mean the team that won the Eastern Conference Finals and came within 2 wins of winning a ring? Ok, I'l ask Miami. Because they are returning their core and will look to add on with what they have to be better next season.

I'll wait for Lebron to win a ring as the primary option and you'll wait for Clevland to get to the NBA Finals (just make an appearance). Guess who'll be waiting longer? And guess who'll make bogus excuses when a certain someone wins the ring by saying "He wasnt the primary option imo".

[ProfessorMurder]

Evans/Fredette
Thornton/Garcia
Salmons/Donte Greene
Hickson/Thompson
Cousins

Thats my guess.

Hmm that's not too bad. They should pick up a big though since I'm not sure how well Cousins would play at C for the whole year.

I liked the team last year and kept tabs because of Cousins, but now they have Salmons too... Plus all of these young guys, so it'll be interesting.

[GOBB]

Evans/Fredette
Thornton/Garcia
Salmons/Donte Greene
Hickson/Thompson
Cousins

Thats my guess.

Thornton resigned or is that your guess?

[TylerOO]

Thornton resigned or is that your guess?

I didnt even know he was a free agent lol. If he doesnt resign, I wouldnt be surprised if they moved Tyreke to the 2. Or maybe they will just start Garcia.

[Rekindled]

they already said they will move tyreke to the 2 or 3. jimmer will start at PG.

Jimmer
Salmons
Tyreke
Hickson
Cousins

[NuggetsFan]

Do you honestly expect anyone to read all of that drivel? I mean, it would be one thing if it was written by a poster that was -- you know -- worth a sh!t... But, you have to know your place and post accordingly.

That is a bunch of wasted keystrokes.

Gotta love the rebuttal. What determines a poster being "worth a shit"? Just curious. Is it because I think it's hilarious how Cleveland fans act towards LeBron? How does one know his place on a messageboard?.

Either struck a nerve witch is very possible because well it's about LeBron or you take ISH and your opinion pretty serious :lol

[LaysUpBricks]

Thornton resigned or is that your guess?

He's likely to be resigned, because everybody loves him here and we have enough cap space to sign him to a nice contract.

And the Kings still plan on adding another big man through free agency.

[NuggetsFan]

We weren't going anywhere with him.


That makes no sense. You had two 60 win seasons, playoff success, finals app. Some people act like Cleveland didn't have talent around him .. witch I think is bullshit. They had a good team around him, nothing spectacular tho. Nothing surrounded him that locked him into the success that the Cavs had.

I'm not saying don't look at the positives and be optimistic. Not saying don't rag on him for being the douche that he is. Saying ridiculous things like we weren't going anywhere with him? We weren't going to win a championship with him as our primary option so I don't care that he's gone? When the fact of the matter is Cleveland as a whole had a breakdown when he left and if he had stayed you guy's would be right there contending having a better shot at a ring than 90% of the teams in the league. If that's nothing, and that doesn't matter than what does? And If LeBron can't win a ring as a primary option than who can? Very few people.

Scratch that.

You are a worthless poster. You should really know your place on ISH

Am I doing it right RBA? I don't agree with his stance so probably better off to say something like that, than actually come up with a response .. that after all is just senseless drivel :bowdown:

[GOBB]

Bron took Cleveland to the Finals twice and one time with a roster I quite frankly know how the hell he even did it. To say Cavs werent going nowhere with Bron when they were a successful team with him is funny.

[AMISTILLILL]

Bron took Cleveland to the Finals twice and one time with a roster I quite frankly know how the hell he even did it. To say Cavs werent going nowhere with Bron when they were a successful team with him is funny.

Once, dawg. Did you mean twice, one with Miami and once with Cleveland?

[TylerOO]

That makes no sense. You had two 60 win seasons, playoff success, finals app. Some people act like Cleveland didn't have talent around him .. witch I think is bullshit. They had a good team around him, nothing spectacular tho. Nothing surrounded him that locked him into the success that the Cavs had.

I'm not saying don't look at the positives and be optimistic. Not saying don't rag on him for being the douche that he is. Saying ridiculous things like we weren't going anywhere with him? We weren't going to win a championship with him as our primary option so I don't care that he's gone? When the fact of the matter is Cleveland as a whole had a breakdown when he left and if he had stayed you guy's would be right there contending having a better shot at a ring than 90% of the teams in the league. If that's nothing, and that doesn't matter than what does? And If LeBron can't win a ring as a primary option than who can? Very few people.

Scratch that.

You are a worthless poster. You should really know your place on ISH

Am I doing it right RBA? I don't agree with his stance so probably better off to say something like that, than actually come up with a response .. that after all is just senseless drivel :bowdown:

You are right. These Cleveland clowns are retarded and in denial.

[da dream]

The first round pick acquired from Sacramento is lottery-protected in 2012 (1-14). The pick is then protected in 2013 (1-13), 2014 (1-12) and 2015-2017 (1-10). If the pick is not conveyed by 2017, then Sacramento will convey its own 2017 second round draft pick to the Cavaliers protected (56-60).


Here is the draft compensation.

LOL I hope sacremento is awful for the next 6 years and then in year 7 wins the championship. Cleveland would never see the pick. :roll:

[DMAVS41]

Hindsight is 20/20, they did a crap job in hindsight but look at what they had to work with: no good draft picks and a superstar who REFUSED to commit to the team or recruit players.

Its not about hindsight. During the process, I and many others were laughing at the job the Cavs front office did.

It would have been hard to worse. It really would have. You let Boozer go and then fail in the draft and free agency to surround a talent like Lebron with at least 1 all nba teammate in 7 freaking years. That is horrible.

They tried, but they failed.

Just like the Mavs did post 2004 until this year with Dirk. Mavs fans have been screaming at Cuban since 2003 to get Dirk a decent center to defend and rebound. It took them until this year to do something they should have done 8 freaking years ago. It was obvious. Instead, they paid a shit ton of money to the wrong players.

Again, it was obvious. Just like it was obvious that Larry Hughes was not the answer. Or that trading Wally at the deadline was a no brainer. Or that Lebron needed a proven coach.....etc.

I wish the Cavs all the best going forward. I was a fan of the Mavs from the get go and I would never wish on any fanbase what Mavs fan had to go through from 89 to 00. 1 playoff appearance in 12 years. I want to say we got swept by Portland. LOL....I can't remember. Anyway, 0 playoff wins in 12 years.

It was awful. Luckily the Cavs won't have to go through that. Hopefully that are awful next year and get another top 3 pick. If some of these guys pan out they could turn this around very quickly. Its going to take a couple more years of being terrible though. That is their best strategy.

[lilojmayo]

Hollinger had him at 3... And maybe Bucher. There were at least two big wigs over at ESPN.com that had Thompson inside their Top 3. I know Hollinger was one... Not sure on the other.

Since the draft, I've read that the Cavs use a rating system similar to the one Hollinger uses when evaluating talent... And that it has been enormously successful for players (not just the ones that they have selected) in the past.

You look at where they got Hickson in the draft... He was arguably the best player on the board, in retrospect.... The same thing goes for Christian Eyenga, who had everyone scratching their heads. Turns out, the guy has crazy potential.

Their last several drafts, they have taken what has turned out to be arguably the best player on the board in retrospect.

I wouldn't go that far with Christian. He is young, and has potential, but nothing crazy about him. He is a freakish athlete, that has more athletic skills, then basketball skills.

He is an elite defensive stopper wanting to happen i'll give you that. But in terms of a two way player, don't see it. He is a more athletic Shane Battier type of player.

Don't understand what Cavs front office is doing, Hickson can get you more than Casspi.

They don't need draft picks, unless they get a real legit ready now prospect, enough of potential talks no more Tristan Thompsons of the world. . I'm talking big names prospects Michael Gilchris, Jared Sullinger, Marquis Teagues, Juice Wroten, Austin Rivers, Andre Drummond, Bradley Beal, these guys have a much higher success rate in the NBA

then guys, that don't have much skill now, but have potential. You get Tyrus Thomas's of the wrold doing tat.

they need veterans. They have Kyrie Irving he is an ultimate floor general, give him veterans that can shoot the ball and play defense and your going to be a playoff team sooner rather than later.

[GOBB]

Once, dawg. Did you mean twice, one with Miami and once with Cleveland?

Correct, thinking of two points at the same time screwed up my post.

[kaiiu]

You mean the team that won the Eastern Conference Finals and came within 2 wins of winning a ring? Ok, I'l ask Miami. Because they are returning their core and will look to add on with what they have to be better next season.

I'll wait for Lebron to win a ring as the primary option and you'll wait for Clevland to get to the NBA Finals (just make an appearance). Guess who'll be waiting longer? And guess who'll make bogus excuses when a certain someone wins the ring by saying "He wasnt the primary option imo".
lmao at this old ass ni99a. Aint u pushin 50 bruh :oldlol:

[1~Gibson~1]

while we didnt get significantly better, we DID get one step closer to getting back into contention.

Kyrie / Gibson
Davis / Gee?
Omri / Eyenga
Tristan / Jamison
Varejao / Samuel?

(Sessions is as good as gone imo)

we still have holes to fill, but we still have time. that's why we're stockpiling draft picks and acquiring young players. not overly happy or sad about the deal though. Sac-town got better NOW while the Cavs positioned themselves to get better in the future.

[Jasper]

thompson , hickson , cousins how many PF's does a team need :confusedshrug:

I liked Casp , but thought he never got enough burn.

Something tells me Kings already know that some Haiti center is gone , and they are going to develop a very uptempo style of play adding Hick and Jimmer into the rotation.

Does Sac know they need a legit center on their team to go against guys like howard , Bynum etc ..

Cav's I don't even think about - they are in no-mans land and won't be relavent for another 5 + seasons.

[1~Gibson~1]

also, Marc Stein repoter (albeit via twitter) that the Cavs are open to making another move b4 midnight by using hte TPE. wouldnt be suprised to see Sessions gone by tomorrow.

[DMAVS41]

I don't think James was ever the player that I thought he was, so I'm glad he left and I can now hope for him to fail... The more I've thought about it since his latest collapse, he wasn't ever going to win being the primary piece in Cleveland unless we simply overwhelmed the league with talent (which is what Miami is trying to do) and the Cavs were never going to be in a position to do that.

He saved us a lot of heartbreak by taking off.

We may not win a title in the coming years, but at least the expectations won't be there to do so, followed by a huge letdown.

And this is exactly where the term:

"BUTTHURT"

Comes from that you hate so much. :lol

[LaysUpBricks]

thompson , hickson , cousins how many PF's does a team need :confusedshrug:

I liked Casp , but thought he never got enough burn.

Something tells me Kings already know that some Haiti center is gone , and they are going to develop a very uptempo style of play adding Hick and Jimmer into the rotation.

Does Sac know they need a legit center on their team to go against guys like howard , Bynum etc ..

Cav's I don't even think about - they are in no-mans land and won't be relavent for another 5 + seasons.

Cousins can play C. He's 270-280 and 6'11" and did play a lot of C last year when Dalembert was on the bench. Thompson also came off the bench to play some C last season also.

Kings know that it is time to win now because they can't be stuck in lower mediocrity for the next season because the position the franchise is in.

[Godzuki]

thompson , hickson , cousins how many PF's does a team need :confusedshrug:

I liked Casp , but thought he never got enough burn.

Something tells me Kings already know that some Haiti center is gone , and they are going to develop a very uptempo style of play adding Hick and Jimmer into the rotation.

Does Sac know they need a legit center on their team to go against guys like howard , Bynum etc ..

Cav's I don't even think about - they are in no-mans land and won't be relavent for another 5 + seasons.


Cousin's will be fine at Center. if anything he's the main reason why Dalembert is leaving after getting benched for Cousin's when he was playing well.

I'm just shocked at how ridiculously lopsided this trade is. JJ was easily the Cav's best player, their workhorse last year, their best commodity hands down, and i didn't even know he was only 22 yrs old. Damn this could go down as one of the biggest retard trades or up there with the worst. Casspi is alright with nice size for a perimeter player but he's soft and hit or miss perimeter, at best he's a Hedo and i highly doubt that.

Just thinking he was a bench player on arguably the worst team in the league vs the best player on arguably the worst team in the league makes no sense. the conditional 1st round protected to 2017 is weak. i hope Cav's management is praying JJ sux next year, Tristan is a beast, and Casspi plays real well in a full time role...

[RedBlackAttack]

I wouldn't go that far with Christian. He is young, and has potential, but nothing crazy about him. He is a freakish athlete, that has more athletic skills, then basketball skills.

He is an elite defensive stopper wanting to happen i'll give you that. But in terms of a two way player, don't see it. He is a more athletic Shane Battier type of player.

Don't understand what Cavs front office is doing, Hickson can get you more than Casspi.

They don't need draft picks, unless they get a real legit ready now prospect, enough of potential talks no more Tristan Thompsons of the world. . I'm talking big names prospects Michael Gilchris, Jared Sullinger, Marquis Teagues, Juice Wroten, Austin Rivers, Andre Drummond, Bradley Beal, these guys have a much higher success rate in the NBA

then guys, that don't have much skill now, but have potential. You get Tyrus Thomas's of the wrold doing tat.

they need veterans. They have Kyrie Irving he is an ultimate floor general, give him veterans that can shoot the ball and play defense and your going to be a playoff team sooner rather than later.

A. No organization is ever in a position wherein they "don't need" draft picks... Let alone an organization that is in such a rebuilding mode and with some potentially stacked classes coming through. Unfortunately, we may never see this draft pick. I'm hearing that it is Top 10 protected through -- like -- 2017. :facepalm

You know better than to say that an organization in the situation that Cleveland has found itself in "doesn't need" draft picks, though... That is EXACTLY what we need.

I was much more interested in the draft pick than I was Casspi, truth be told. Yeah, he is a young, defensive-minded shooter in a position that we desperately need to fill, but he also rode the pine for the f#cking Kings. That isn't exactly a comforting notion.

B. I was discussing Eyenga in terms of what I initially thought when he was drafted. I honestly believed -- since it came on the heels of us taking on Shaq's enormous contract -- that it was just an attempt to take a guy that may never come to the NBA so that we wouldn't have to put money into the pick. It turned out, it was a pretty savvy selection.

I didn't mean it to sound like he has Michael Jordan-esque potential, but he does have high upside. The guy is very athletic (even in NBA terms), has a jumpshot that got more and more consistent as the year went on after it looked atrocious initially and, as you said, has all of the tools to be a versatile defensive stopper on the wing.

He could end up being a starting player on a good team in the NBA, which is far more than I ever expected.

C. This team has plenty of veterans... Jamison and B-Diddy, at this stage in the rebuild, can provide plenty of veteran leadership. It isn't as if we are one or two pieces away.

[RedBlackAttack]

And this is exactly where the term:

"BUTTHURT"

Comes from that you hate so much. :lol
Really? Because, that is a pretty lame reason.

I once thought that James was capable of being the clear-cut leader on a team that was totally built around him with maybe a Bosh like addition.

His head-scratching collapses in the last two playoffs have made me reassess that idea. Is that crazy?

[bisk]

Soooo....Jamaican, Congo, Turkey, Brazil and now Israel.:lol

[Reverend Hoops]

Steal for SacTown. A frontline of Hickson-Cousins is deadly offensively.

[bagelred]

Maloof "Omri, you've been traded!"

Omri "YES!!! FINALLY!! Get out of this awful city.....so where am I headed?"

Maloof "Cleveland."

Omri "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.......... ................."

[TKstyle]

This makes the Kings better straight away, but it also works for the Cavs. They get a starting SF, which Casspi did very well in his rookie season until falling out of Westpaul's plans and riding the pine for most of this season just gone. The future pick may end up being another decent role player aswell. They've gotta make use of B-Diddy and AJ next season, considering they're on $30mil between them.

Kings still have moves to make. Need a back up PG to Tyreke, Jimmer IS NOT the answer. He and Thornton coming off the bench will add scoring punch while Salmons and Garcia, the vets, the solid perimeter defenders, start with Reke running the show. They also need a back up vet for Cousins, because it's all too common that the young studs have crappy sophmore years. Sammy D is definately gone, so I'm not sure who they could get for 10-15 solid mins a night.

Cousins / ?
Hickson / Thompson
Salmons / Greene / Honeycutt
Garcia / Thornton / Fredette
Tyreke / ?

Suggestions for the gaps? JJ Barea? Sessions for the PG back up. Centres, I got nothin'

[LaysUpBricks]

This makes the Kings better straight away, but it also works for the Cavs. They get a starting SF, which Casspi did very well in his rookie season until falling out of Westpaul's plans and riding the pine for most of this season just gone. The future pick may end up being another decent role player aswell. They've gotta make use of B-Diddy and AJ next season, considering they're on $30mil between them.

Kings still have moves to make. Need a back up PG to Tyreke, Jimmer IS NOT the answer. He and Thornton coming off the bench will add scoring punch while Salmons and Garcia, the vets, the solid perimeter defenders, start with Reke running the show. They also need a back up vet for Cousins, because it's all too common that the young studs have crappy sophmore years. Sammy D is definately gone, so I'm not sure who they could get for 10-15 solid mins a night.

Cousins / ?
Hickson / Thompson
Salmons / Greene / Honeycutt
Garcia / Thornton / Fredette
Tyreke / ?

Suggestions for the gaps? JJ Barea? Sessions for the PG back up. Centres, I got nothin'

They seem pretty satisfied with Jimmer as the backup PG. But I wouldn't be surprised if they maybe sign a cheap free agent. And they plan on adding another center once the lockout is over. They have plenty of money to pursue a big name center, or maybe a backup center for cheap.

[TKstyle]

They seem pretty satisfied with Jimmer as the backup PG. But I wouldn't be surprised if they maybe sign a cheap free agent. And they plan on adding another center once the lockout is over. They have plenty of money to pursue a big name center, or maybe a backup center for cheap.

Oh ok, I'm from Australia, so I didn't/haven't seen alot of Jimmer, wasn't sure if he was a capable ball handler, but if so, then I could live with that.

They will definately have the cap space with Dalembert's 10+ million now off the books. They could offer big $$ for Nene? Would make them pretty stacked at the 5/4 positions. Role playing centre would definately suit better. Who that is, not so sure

[LaysUpBricks]

Oh ok, I'm from Australia, so I didn't/haven't seen alot of Jimmer, wasn't sure if he was a capable ball handler, but if so, then I could live with that.

They will definately have the cap space with Dalembert's 10+ million now off the books. They could offer big $$ for Nene? Would make them pretty stacked at the 5/4 positions. Role playing centre would definately suit better. Who that is, not so sure

Yeah if they want to go for a big name I wouldn't be surprised if they go after Nene or Gasol. They have the cap space to do it. But then in a couple of years they have to pay Evans and Cousins. That's the only reason I can think of not going for one of the two.

[Clippersfan86]

Maloof "Omri, you've been traded!"

Omri "YES!!! FINALLY!! Get out of this awful city.....so where am I headed?"

Maloof "Cleveland."

Omri "NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO.......... ................."

:lol :lol

[TKstyle]

Yeah if they want to go for a big name I wouldn't be surprised if they go after Nene or Gasol. They have the cap space to do it. But then in a couple of years they have to pay Evans and Cousins. That's the only reason I can think of not going for one of the two.

They still need to resign Thornton, can't see him taking up too much space in the cap though, he's a MUST though.

I think someone like Jason Collins, Kwame Brown are more logical choices for back up centres. Just a big body to come off the bench, get rebounds, pick up fouls.

Maybe they go for Yao? :oldlol: jks

[33teeth]

Ehhh. I would not say that. He is still only 22, crazier things have happened in the NBA. He has improved every year he has been in the league and has shown explosiveness at times, it just needs to be consistent. Still, I would not be happy trading JJ straight up for Casspi. Give me Casspi and Greene or Casspi and Thompson, I might be a little happier.

Heh. Jason Thompson is arguably close to as good as Hickson. Casspi is not bad either. There's no way you'd get both of them for Hickson.

[LaysUpBricks]

They still need to resign Thornton, can't see him taking up too much space in the cap though, he's a MUST though.

I think someone like Jason Collins, Kwame Brown are more logical choices for back up centres. Just a big body to come off the bench, get rebounds, pick up fouls.

Maybe they go for Yao? :oldlol: jks

Yeah of course he's a must, the Kings staff have made every indication that they will resign him. He's also made every intention that he'll resign. But I can't see him signing for more than 7-9 million a year. That still leaves over 20 million in cap space (with the current cap).

[blacknapalm]

not sure this makes either team much better really. hickson's D is below average and awful at times. casspi is okay...he can get hot but can also just check it a lot. anyway, what a difference a little over a year makes. remember when cleveland didn't want to trade for amar'e with hickson in the package. now, he's being traded to casspi straight up. ya, i know there's a first round pick involved but it's lottery protected so everything is speculation there. oops.

[Scoooter]

not sure this makes either team much better really. hickson's D is below average and awful at times. casspi is okay...he can get hot but can also just check it a lot. anyway, what a difference a little over a year makes. remember when cleveland didn't want to trade for amar'e with hickson in the package. now, he's being traded to casspi straight up. ya, i know there's a first round pick involved but it's lottery protected so everything is speculation there. oops.
That didn't happen.

[blacknapalm]

That didn't happen.

not at the time. i still don't believe it wasn't on the table no matter who pulled away. i'm not talking about bleacher report articles. everything since then has been damage control.

[RedBlackAttack]

not at the time. i still don't believe it wasn't on the table no matter who pulled away. i'm not talking about bleacher report articles. everything since then has been damage control.
Every report that came out at the time from every reputable source was that Hickson was on the table and the ball was in the Suns' court. They walked away.

Anyone that thinks otherwise just wants to believe that Hickson wasn't included... And I'm not sure why, other than to make a case that Cleveland's FO is dumb... There are plenty of examples of that without having to make stuff up.

[bluechox2]

wtf cavs doing, taking one step backwards instead of trying to move forward after 2 top 5 picks.

[RedBlackAttack]

wtf cavs doing, taking one step backwards instead of trying to move forward after 2 top 5 picks.
This is what I can figure...

1. They thought that JJ -- who will be a FA after this season -- was going to be a sticky contract situation and we may have ended up losing him for nothing in the long run.

2. There have been reports since this trade that he clashed often with Byron Scott. If I had to guess, Scott was pushing for the drafting of Tristan Thompson and the trading of JJ.

3. The organization wants a completely fresh start, cutting all ties with the 'James era.' Bobbie Gibson and Anderson Varejao are now all that remain.

[Frank Nit]

This makes the Kings better straight away, but it also works for the Cavs. They get a starting SF, which Casspi did very well in his rookie season until falling out of Westpaul's plans and riding the pine for most of this season just gone. The future pick may end up being another decent role player aswell. They've gotta make use of B-Diddy and AJ next season, considering they're on $30mil between them.

Kings still have moves to make. Need a back up PG to Tyreke, Jimmer IS NOT the answer. He and Thornton coming off the bench will add scoring punch while Salmons and Garcia, the vets, the solid perimeter defenders, start with Reke running the show. They also need a back up vet for Cousins, because it's all too common that the young studs have crappy sophmore years. Sammy D is definately gone, so I'm not sure who they could get for 10-15 solid mins a night.

Cousins / ?
Hickson / Thompson
Salmons / Greene / Honeycutt
Garcia / Thornton / Fredette
Tyreke / ?

Suggestions for the gaps? JJ Barea? Sessions for the PG back up. Centres, I got nothin'

They drafted Isaiah Thomas. He will compete for and eventually win the backup PG spot. He is ready to contribute right now.

[JohnnySic]

Nice trade for the Kings. Hickson is a throwback bullish pf, of the Buck Williams/Otis Thorpe type.

[Godzuki]

not sure this makes either team much better really. hickson's D is below average and awful at times. casspi is okay...he can get hot but can also just check it a lot. anyway, what a difference a little over a year makes. remember when cleveland didn't want to trade for amar'e with hickson in the package. now, he's being traded to casspi straight up. ya, i know there's a first round pick involved but it's lottery protected so everything is speculation there. oops.


the sad thing is that was when Hickson was way more of a question mark. last season he really came into his own, and FINALLY showed signs of consistently playing well and he can be a beast on the boards, plays real big for a PF, actually was playing Center most of last season putting up great numbers against other teams starters. its mind boggling they trade him for peanuts when he is finally growing up. i don't even get 3/4's of Cav's fans reactions thinking it was a decent trade :wtf:

[Meticode]

I personally ike the trade as a Cavaliers fan. I felt they needed to move one of their big men, and with drafting Thompson while having Hickson it made a lot of people go, "What the hell?". Hopefully Thompson can fill in Hickson's role and have a decent rookie season (if there is a season).

I like Casspi. He's not a star or anything like that, but he's a solid SF. In his limited minutes the past two seasons he's pretty much averaged 10/5 in 25 minutes of play. And that's a huge upgrade from Alonzo freakin' Gee. He's also a solid shooter from three. Maybe we'll get lucky and get a top 5 pick next year? You never know.

[Meticode]

not sure this makes either team much better really. hickson's D is below average and awful at times. casspi is okay...he can get hot but can also just check it a lot. anyway, what a difference a little over a year makes. remember when cleveland didn't want to trade for amar'e with hickson in the package. now, he's being traded to casspi straight up. ya, i know there's a first round pick involved but it's lottery protected so everything is speculation there. oops.
You're talking about two totally different situations though. All I need it to say is pre-LeBron era and post-LeBron era.

[Meticode]

the sad thing is that was when Hickson was way more of a question mark. last season he really came into his own, and FINALLY showed signs of consistently playing well and he can be a beast on the boards, plays real big for a PF, actually was playing Center most of last season putting up great numbers against other teams starters. its mind boggling they trade him for peanuts when he is finally growing up. i don't even get 3/4's of Cav's fans reactions thinking it was a decent trade :wtf:
The reason we think it's a decent trade is because we felt there was a log-jam at PF with two undersized PFs. When we Thompson got traded we figured, "Well, if it's him we gotta move someone at PF." Plus, I'm all for cutting ties to the LeBron-era anyway.

[Godzuki]

I personally ike the trade as a Cavaliers fan. I felt they needed to move one of their big men, and with drafting Thompson while having Hickson it made a lot of people go, "What the hell?". Hopefully Thompson can fill in Hickson's role and have a decent rookie season (if there is a season).

I like Casspi. He's not a star or anything like that, but he's a solid SF. In his limited minutes the past two seasons he's pretty much averaged 10/5 in 25 minutes of play. And that's a huge upgrade from Alonzo freakin' Gee. He's also a solid shooter from three. Maybe we'll get lucky and get a top 5 pick next year? You never know.


they could've gotten WAY more value than what they got. i don't think people are giviing JJ enough credit here for how well he played last year, and the huge jump forward he took. a lot seem to be judging him on prior years where he was still considered arguably a bust. he was on another level of play last year and what really is puzzling is they were waiting for a long time for him to get it, he finally does, and then they trade him for peanuts.

they didn't even HAVE to draft Tristan there but granted they did which again is on them if he doesn't end up the player JJ becomes, or better.

imo they should've just held on to him next year then try to trade him for better value. its not like they're in a rush more than rebuilding. i'd be shocked if the Cav's don't look stupid in hindsight from this trade.

[bisk]

I personally ike the trade as a Cavaliers fan. I felt they needed to move one of their big men, and with drafting Thompson while having Hickson it made a lot of people go, "What the hell?". Hopefully Thompson can fill in Hickson's role and have a decent rookie season (if there is a season).

I like Casspi. He's not a star or anything like that, but he's a solid SF. In his limited minutes the past two seasons he's pretty much averaged 10/5 in 25 minutes of play. And that's a huge upgrade from Alonzo freakin' Gee. He's also a solid shooter from three. Maybe we'll get lucky and get a top 5 pick next year? You never know.

And if we get reaaaaally lucky, Kings get to the first round playoffs next season.

[Meticode]

they could've gotten WAY more value than what they got. i don't think people are giviing JJ enough credit here for how well he played last year, and the huge jump forward he took. a lot seem to be judging him on prior years where he was still considered arguably a bust. he was on another level of play last year and what really is puzzling is they were waiting for a long time for him to get it, he finally does, and then they trade him for peanuts.

they didn't even HAVE to draft Tristan there but granted they did which again is on them if he doesn't end up the player JJ becomes, or better.

imo they should've just held on to him next year then try to trade him for better value. its not like they're in a rush more than rebuilding. i'd be shocked if the Cav's don't look stupid in hindsight from this trade.
If you look stupid, then you look stupid. It really can't get much worse than last season for the Cavaliers.

[Godzuki]

The reason we think it's a decent trade is because we felt there was a log-jam at PF with two undersized PFs. When we Thompson got traded we figured, "Well, if it's him we gotta move someone at PF." Plus, I'm all for cutting ties to the LeBron-era anyway.


yeah but thats the logjam they created. in essence they chose Tristan over JJ, when they could've very easily drafted someone at any other position with the #4 pick. its not like Tristan was a no brainer forced pick there. they created that dilemma...but i guess they think Tristan will end up better than JJ and i guess they'll face the backlash if things don't pan out with these bold moves(especially the Kings trade).

i'm not hating on the Tristan pick nearly as much as the Sac trade. i had JJ on my fantasy team last year and i watched the Cav's a lot, in fact i sort of became fans of them since they were such underdogs every game, and JJ is WAY better than a lot of people are giving him credit for. he was a beast on the boards, was really good when his J was on, and seriously beasted.

whats done is done. i guess it just amounts to seeing what happens...

oh and yeah i definitely don't blame you for wanting to clean house from the Lebron era. i'll never forgive Mo and a lot of the previous lebron teammates still on the Cav's for how sorry they played when they played Miami that first game. its way worse that they're always giving Lebron crazy respect too, even after he's walking all over them. its just a sad sight to see, and i can't even imagine how pissed i'd be if i were a true Cav's homer.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

So Cleveland doesn't want Hickson afterall?

[boozehound]

they could've gotten WAY more value than what they got.
see, you (a casual fan) can say that, but its not like they didnt do their due diligence before this trade. Im sure they called most of the other teams in the league during the last couple weeks. Maybe JJ has more value to you, but you dont have anyone to trade for him. He obviously doesnt have more value across the league. Frankly, I wouldnt be surprised if Casspi is considered the better player by most GMs.

[Godzuki]

see, you (a casual fan) can say that, but its not like they didnt do their due diligence before this trade. Im sure they called most of the other teams in the league during the last couple weeks. Maybe JJ has more value to you, but you dont have anyone to trade for him. He obviously doesnt have more value across the league. Frankly, I wouldnt be surprised if Casspi is considered the better player by most GMs.

just curious but did you watch Hickson last year?

any GM that thinks that is a horrible GM, but i wouldn't be surprised since they're just as bad as fans or even worse sometimes given some of their decisions. either way to just assume they know what they're doing is pretty stupid imo given past history of decisions from GM's in general.

honestly if you've actually watched both players, and more importantly Hickson from last year, i don't know how you could even say that, let alone a GM. its like comparing one of the better PF's in the league carrying a team to a bench player thats barely getting any time for a reason. actually it is...:facepalm

its just not reality unless you haven't watched those players of recent. its actually hard for me to believe there aren't more Cleveland fans sticking up for JJ from last year unless they stopped watching because they sucked so bad.

[boozehound]

just curious but did you watch Hickson last year?

any GM that thinks that is a horrible GM, but i wouldn't be surprised since they're just as bad as fans or even worse sometimes given some of their decisions. either way to just assume they know what they're doing is pretty stupid imo given past history of decisions from GM's in general.

honestly if you've actually watched both players, and more importantly Hickson from last year, i don't know how you could even say that, let alone a GM. its like comparing one of the better PF's in the league carrying a team to a bench player thats barely getting any time for a reason. actually it is...:facepalm

its just not reality unless you haven't watched those players of recent. its actually hard for me to believe there aren't more Cleveland fans sticking up for JJ from last year unless they stopped watching because they sucked so bad.
I saw enough of him to see that he was coming into his own. I also recognize that he is still not all that great, despite his improvement. This idea that he is near star level is insane. Dude isnt even one of the top 15 (or maybe even 25) pf's in the league.


My point is, regardless of his improvement last year, its not like the cavs didnt bother to assess his value with the rest of the league before making this trade.

[Godzuki]

I saw enough of him to see that he was coming into his own. I also recognize that he is still not all that great, despite his improvement. This idea that he is near star level is insane. Dude isnt even one of the top 15 (or maybe even 25) pf's in the league.


My point is, regardless of his improvement last year, its not like the cavs didnt bother to assess his value with the rest of the league before making this trade.


he's borderline star, and on the road he's on, he'll be one. i stand by that. mark my words. a lot of you i swear either didn't watch him much last year or were watching something completely different than i was. I'd say he's in the top 15 PF's in the league EASY.

and if he were in this draft class, based on last years performance, he'd be the #1 overall pick.

And its absolutely absurd for anyone to say Casspi is the better player, let alone a GM. thats crazy talk.

[bokes15]

This is hilarious man. The Cavs when Bron was around were unwilling to trade Hickson for the likes of Amar'e Stoudemire, and now they are willing to let go of him for Casspi and a draft pick.

[boozehound]

This is hilarious man. The Cavs when Bron was around were unwilling to trade Hickson for the likes of Amar'e Stoudemire, and now they are willing to let go of him for Casspi and a draft pick.
not true. Yet another example of how the 24/7 rumormill (err, media) consistently mis-report this shit. This statement has been disproven time and time again. Hickson was not the deal breaker.

[boozehound]

he's borderline star, and on the road he's on, he'll be one. i stand by that. mark my words. a lot of you i swear either didn't watch him much last year or were watching something completely different than i was. I'd say he's in the top 15 PF's in the league EASY.

and if he were in this draft class, based on last years performance, he'd be the #1 overall pick.

And its absolutely absurd for anyone to say Casspi is the better player, let alone a GM. thats crazy talk.
So, lets see.
Amar'e
KG
Monroe
Boozer
Bosh
J Smoove
Brand
Blatche

all better than him and thats just the east.

I also think its arguable that ty thomas and amir johnson are better than him. Dude is a hella athlete and has become a solid player, but its insane to think this guy will continue those averages to end the season. Typical case of a dude putting up big numbers on a crap team simply because someone has to IMO.

[Godzuki]

So, lets see.
Amar'e
KG
Monroe
Boozer
Bosh
J Smoove
Brand
Blatche

all better than him and thats just the east.

I also think its arguable that ty thomas and amir johnson are better than him. Dude is a hella athlete and has become a solid player, but its insane to think this guy will continue those averages to end the season. Typical case of a dude putting up big numbers on a crap team simply because someone has to IMO.


that is laughable. you clearly didn't watch him last year, i'd bet on it. no way you can pretend Monroe is better, let alone Tyrus Thomas or Amir Johnson, you're fukkin nuts. he's better than Brand, arguably boozer.

i guess kevin love sux too. you guys can't keep pretending people are so overrated for playing on bad teams when they're doing it against 1st team competition or defenders. sure his numbers will likely drop next year with a stacked Kiings team, but that doesn't take away from what he can do as a main focus 1st option with touches. No, most players, even half of what you named couldn't have put up what he did last year.

either way i wish we could bet RL money since i'd bet the bank on him being way better than you're acting...

[LJJ]

So, lets see.
Amar'e
KG
Monroe
Boozer
Bosh
J Smoove
Brand
Blatche

all better than him and thats just the east.

I also think its arguable that ty thomas and amir johnson are better than him. Dude is a hella athlete and has become a solid player, but its insane to think this guy will continue those averages to end the season. Typical case of a dude putting up big numbers on a crap team simply because someone has to IMO.

In addition to those players, these players wouldn't have done any worse than Hickson on last season's Cavs either:

-Ed Davis
-Rashard Lewis
-Boris Diaw
-Brandon Bass
-Taj Gibson

perhaps even Yi.


You have to consider the situation of the Cavs. There are no real legitimate first options on the team. No one plays them hard defensively.

Hickson simply got to take a lot of easy shots, didn't even hit that many of them; it's nothing to get excited about. The Cavs were horrible.

[Godzuki]

In addition to those players, these players wouldn't have done any worse than Hickson on last season's Cavs either:

-Ed Davis
-Rashard Lewis
-Boris Diaw
-Brandon Bass
-Taj Gibson

perhaps even Yi.


You have to consider the situation of the Cavs. There are no real legitimate first options on the team. No one plays them hard defensively.

Hickson simply got to take a lot of easy shots, didn't even hit that many of them; it's nothing to get excited about. The Cavs were horrible.


lol you have no clue. and i guarantee you didn't watch him much. fyi the shots he got were a lot harder because they sucked so bad. he just played well, played like a workhorse, and i think its hilarious how a lot of you are talking outa your ass about a player i'm GUARANTEEING most you didn't watch much of last year to even know.

lmao easy shots. more like being a defensive focal point because he was their biggest threat. you don't really get easy buckets on bad teams. maybe you're talking about the gimme's he got when Lebron was there...

[bokes15]

not true. Yet another example of how the 24/7 rumormill (err, media) consistently mis-report this shit. This statement has been disproven time and time again. Hickson was not the deal breaker.
What was the deal breaker then? And please post the info with links so I can be informed, thanks.

[kaiiu]

hickson is a top 10 PF in the NBA

[LJJ]

He gets easy shots because no one plays defense on the Cavs, because they got blown out every other night.

You think teams are playing hard defense when they are up 20 points? Hell no. Those teams are coasting.

[Godzuki]

He gets easy shots because no one plays defense on the Cavs, because they got blown out every other night.

You think teams are playing hard defense when they are up 20 points? Hell no. Those teams are coasting.


Cav's were in a lot of games, especially during the 2nd half of the year which made watching them exciting as a underdog upset team nobody wanted to lose to.

either way he got much easier buckets when Lebron was there than last season. if anything he worked for most of his shots last year playing out of position at center, but like i said you don't know what you're talking about.

[Godzuki]

hickson is a top 10 PF in the NBA


yeah i'd say the same, but was just safe with saying top 15~

i have a feeling he'll end up really good considering he's only 22, and he is a very good big man that plays big, not soft. just hope he doesn't sit back and become complacent after proving himself last year.

[RedBlackAttack]

He gets easy shots because no one plays defense on the Cavs, because they got blown out every other night.

You think teams are playing hard defense when they are up 20 points? Hell no. Those teams are coasting.
What a dumb argument. Hickson had the best run of his career the last month and a half of last season and the Cavs were actually playing pretty well... Went from having by far the worst record in the NBA to clawing their way out of the cellar.

Hickson averaged 20/12 during that span.

How many times did you watch the Cavs play last year?

[RedBlackAttack]

This is hilarious man. The Cavs when Bron was around were unwilling to trade Hickson for the likes of Amar'e Stoudemire, and now they are willing to let go of him for Casspi and a draft pick.
:facepalm

Kill yourself.

[Godzuki]

What a dumb argument. Hickson had the best run of his career the last month and a half of last season and the Cavs were actually playing pretty well... Went from having by far the worst record in the NBA to clawing their way out of the cellar.

Hickson averaged 20/12 during that span.

How many times did you watch the Cavs play last year?


yea i don't think most people watched him play last year and are judging JJ from prior years despite pretending they did...

he got very erratic PT the year before, and 1st half of last year, but it did him a lot of good since it lit a fire under him and made him value his opportunities.

[RedBlackAttack]

yea i don't think most people watched him play last year and are judging JJ from prior years despite pretending they did...

he got very erratic PT the year before, and 1st half of last year, but it did him a lot of good since it lit a fire under him and made him value his opportunities.
Oh, don't get me wrong... He is still a complete block head who will fall asleep for long spans of games and he has maybe the worst set of hands I have ever seen in the NBA. I'm not sure if you are a Kings fan, but prepared for the JJ rollercoaster if you are.

He will have you thinking that he is an All-Star one game and a scrub in the next... Sometimes, his inconsistencies even crop up quarter to quarter or minute to minute.

The only really consistent thing about JJ are his awful hands, which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. But, when he has it going, he is very good. The key is trying to tap into that for more than a few stretches per game.

[Nastradamus]

Wow, had no idea people were swallowing up Hickson like this. Pretty hilarious. Casspi isn't amazing, so its a relatively even deal, but Hickson is not some top 10-15 PF. He is Andray Blatche. No D, kind of lazy and inconsistent overall. Useful player, but I want him as my scoring big off the bench. He can't make his rotations and he gets worked on P and R.

There is a reason he was so readily available the second the season ended. Sell high while you can. The sad thing is, selling high on Hickson nets you Casspi and a maybe 1st rounder. If Hickson was that good, they'd have passed on Thompson for Vessely or LEonard or Thompson/Burks even.

This SActown team is going to be truly horrendous. Everyone on the team is a ballhog to the point of pouting if they don't get shots. None of them play D. Are they going to use 2 balls? Oddly enough this is exactly reminiscent of Milwaukee last year, adding Salmons and Maggette and dropping Ridnour. They lost their most team oriented player for 2 ball hogs and lost their identity on both ends, as Mbah Moute and Delfino were pushed out of the rotation at first and JEnnings was pushed totally out of his comfort zone, now trying to feed all these score first guys instead of playing like he did as a rookie. Their D was never the same. With Udrih,Jackson and Harris in place of Salmons,MAggette and Dooling, they'll be back.

Fredette-Evans-Salmons-Hickson-Cousins, I mean, just wow. The closest thing to even a mediocre defender is Salmons, but his effort wanes a lot and he needs strong team D around him. No help from his bigs will make things tough and he has to guard bigger 3s instead of 2s now. Evans and Fredette may work offensively, but defensively its putrid. Plus like I said, everyone needs shots, including MArcus Thronton off the bench. GS version 2!


This team would be a lot better with Udrih(extremely efficient last year), Casspi and having drafted someone like Leonard or Brandon Knight at 7. Keep Thompson around and put your energy into re-upping Dalembert, the one guy who plays D. Drafting Honeycutt was the one good move.

[LJJ]

What a dumb argument. Hickson had the best run of his career the last month and a half of last season and the Cavs were actually playing pretty well... Went from having by far the worst record in the NBA to clawing their way out of the cellar.

Hickson averaged 20/12 during that span.

How many times did you watch the Cavs play last year?

Walter Herrmann (Who?) averaged 20 points per game on 60% shooting in april one time. That tends to happen on awful teams in the last month of the season, because a lot of their opponents don't play for anything and the intensity drops.

Let's look at Clevelands opponents in the last month:

Wizards (twice)
Raptors
Bobcats
Pistons
Bucks
Bulls
Knicks

No wonder he did well. Easy wins for the Bulls and the Knicks, all of those other teams were tanking. The ONLY meaningful game in that stretch was against the Bucks. The Bucks were fighting for that last playoff spot.

Not much to my surprise that was by far the worst Hickson game during that stretch.

[Nastradamus]

:facepalm

Kill yourself.

Well,its true.

[Godzuki]

Oh, don't get me wrong... He is still a complete block head who will fall asleep for long spans of games and he has maybe the worst set of hands I have ever seen in the NBA. I'm not sure if you are a Kings fan, but prepared for the JJ rollercoaster if you are.

He will have you thinking that he is an All-Star one game and a scrub in the next... Sometimes, his inconsistencies even crop up quarter to quarter or minute to minute.

The only really consistent thing about JJ are his awful hands, which isn't exactly a ringing endorsement. But, when he has it going, he is very good. The key is trying to tap into that for more than a few stretches per game.


i actually said the same exxact thing regarding his weaknesses earlier in this thread i believe. i know i mentioned his butterfingers and inconsistent play, but he was a beast towards the end of last year where those inconsistencies were much fewer and far between.

all in all tho he's a borderline star, which some people are laughing at. altho i stand by it.

i'm a NBA fan, that follows my fantasy team more than homer'ing players...and i generally pull for underdogs. once they get good i tend to stop watching them, like OKC and Chicago...

[bokes15]

Well,its true.
He's a Cavs fan, obviously still angry about it. But at least he has Casspi as a consolation prize. :D

[RedBlackAttack]

Well,its true.
No, it's not.

[RedBlackAttack]

Broussard:


The Cleveland Cavaliers and Phoenix Suns are closing in on a deal that would send All-Star forward Amare Stoudemire to Cleveland, according to sources with knowledge of the negotiations.

The Cavaliers would send Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson to Phoenix in exchange for Stoudemire, one of the league's most dominant big men.

While Cleveland remains in talks with several other teams, the club, from management down to the players, has settled on Stoudemire as its first choice.

The ball is in Phoenix's court. The Suns are mulling whether the financial relief provided by Ilgauskas' $12 million contract and the young and talented Hickson are enough for them to part with Stoudemire.

Cleveland believes the addition of Stoudemire would all but seal LeBron James' re-signing with the team when he becomes a free agent this summer. The Cavaliers are also prepared to sign Stoudemire, who has one year and $17 million remaining on his contract, to a long-term contract extension once the season ends.

The Suns would likely waive Ilgauskas, a move that would allow him to be re-signed by Cleveland after 30 days.

Cleveland is also talking with Washington about acquiring Antawn Jamison, as well as Indiana about Troy Murphy. Meanwhile, Golden State is trying to entice the Cavs into taking Corey Maggette for Ilgauskas.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nba/news/story?id=4913305


Windhorst:


Hey, Brian: Is it fair to say the Cavs would still be in the playoffs if they had pulled off the trade for Amar'e Stoudemire? He's been playing superb basketball for the entire second half and into the playoffs. At the time, I was glad to have picked up Antawn Jamison while keeping J.J. Hickson, but Jamison was never a factor in the playoffs and J.J. disappeared from Mike Brown's rotations. If J.J. wasn't going to play in the postseason, what was the point in holding on to him? -- Eric Cross, Sanford, Fla.

Hey, Eric: It is important to note that it wasn't a choice. The Suns elected not to trade Stoudemire for the package the Cavs offered, not the Cavs picking Jamison. In hindsight, it seems fans lose sight of that and believe the Cavs picked Jamison. The difference would have been the Cavs would have had a 27 year-old All-Star post player and not a 33-year-old stretch forward that is still good but past his prime. It would have been better in the short term and likely the long term. However, I disagree Jamison that was never a factor in the playoffs. He played well against the Bulls but was in a bad matchup with Kevin Garnett against the Celtics.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/05/hey_brian_brian_windhorst_answ_54.html


CLEVELAND, Ohio -- The Cavaliers have made their calls, now they're waiting for their phone to ring.

As the team headed into the eve of the NBA's trading deadline, sources indicated they had finalized and ranked their list of trade options. It includes input from the coaching staff, ownership and the team's veteran players, especially LeBron James.

Their first choice is believed to be to trade for the Phoenix Suns' Amare Stoudemire, a deal they have been working on in earnest since last week. Their offer is centered around Zydrunas Ilgauskas and J.J. Hickson, but would likely include at least one more player and a draft pick.

Despite being prodded by the Cavs, however, the Suns seem willing to wait. League executives report that the extra time is for the Miami Heat to put together a more competitive package. The Heat, who have been courting Stoudemire for as long as the Cavs, are believed to be looking for a third team to help them pull it off.

The Cavs' deal, in conjunction with a potential money-saving buyout of Ilgauskas' contract, could put the Suns under the luxury tax. That is a move that could save Phoenix is excess of $10 million this season.

Miami's offers likely would not get the Suns under the tax but could include more draft picks -- the Heat own two first-rounders this year. There are signs that Miami is trying to find a way to also trade for Suns' guard Jason Richardson, who will make $14.4 million next season, as part of the deal.

If the Heat can do that, and therefore give the Suns the sort of cash savings the Cavs currently are offering, there's a good chance Phoenix may select Miami's offer.

http://www.cleveland.com/cavs/index.ssf/2010/02/wait_and_see_stoudemire_remain.html

[RedBlackAttack]

Walter Herrmann (Who?) averaged 20 points per game on 60% shooting in april one time. That tends to happen on awful teams in the last month of the season, because a lot of their opponents don't play for anything and the intensity drops.

Let's look at Clevelands opponents in the last month:

Wizards (twice)
Raptors
Bobcats
Pistons
Bucks
Bulls
Knicks

No wonder he did well. Easy wins for the Bulls and the Knicks, all of those other teams were tanking. The ONLY meaningful game in that stretch was against the Bucks. The Bucks were fighting for that last playoff spot.

Not much to my surprise that was by far the worst Hickson game during that stretch.

You said that Hickson put up numbers against teams who weren't trying because they were blowing out the Cavs. That is just flat-out untrue. Now, you have molded your argument into something different... That teams didn't care because it was the end of the season.

Just so we know, for future reference... Which games 'count' and which don't? Are the only games that counted for JJ last year the ones early in the season before the trade when the team was in total disarray? That seems more than a little unfair for a 22-year-old player and I was never the biggest proponent of JJ Hickson.

Just picking out a different random month during the course of the season, here are some numbers that he put up...

PHI (loss 95-91) - 22 points (9-15), 16 rebounds
NYK (win 115-109) - 24 points (9-17), 15 rebounds
LAC (win 126-119) - 27 points (12-19), 14 rebounds
DET (loss 103-94) - 18 points (8-12), 15 rebounds
DAL (win 99-96) - 26 points (12-18), 12 rebounds
MEM (loss 112-105) - 31 points (11-21), 15 rebounds
WAS (loss 115-110) - 16 points (7-18), 13 rebounds
LAL (win 104-99) - 13 points (6-18), 15 rebounds


Those eight games make up the majority of his play for the month of February. There are some good teams mixed in there, they weren't all total blowouts and they weren't at the end of the season when, by your logic, no one cares.

How can these be explained?

[LaysUpBricks]

Fredette-Evans-Salmons-Hickson-Cousins, I mean, just wow. The closest thing to even a mediocre defender is Salmons, but his effort wanes a lot and he needs strong team D around him. No help from his bigs will make things tough and he has to guard bigger 3s instead of 2s now. Evans and Fredette may work offensively, but defensively its putrid. Plus like I said, everyone needs shots, including MArcus Thronton off the bench. GS version 2!


This team would be a lot better with Udrih(extremely efficient last year), Casspi and having drafted someone like Leonard or Brandon Knight at 7. Keep Thompson around and put your energy into re-upping Dalembert, the one guy who plays D. Drafting Honeycutt was the one good move.

The Kings traded Udrih away because even though he is a great facilitator, albeit the best on the Kings, he couldn't defend anybody. Hence why they traded for John Salmons who can consistently defend on the wing and hit open jump shots. He knows he's being brought in for that, and he knows he doesn't have to create on offense.

Jimmer isn't going to be the starting PG, it's going to be Evans. And Evans is a good defender when he has been healthy. He wasn't healthy at all last season. Thornton would be starting at SG and he's underrated at the defensive end.

As for the draft, the Kings said so themselves that even if they were still picking at 7, they wouldn't have picked Knight. He has great potential but they don't want to wait around for him to develop because they are attempting to win now. Knight has a huge problem just driving to his left and that didn't go over well with the team officials.

As for the move of Hickson, it's not like they added him to be a creator on offense. They added him to create some havoc on the offensive rim. The Kings are still looking to add another center, and if it's a big name, there's no guarantee Hickson even sees over 20 minutes a night.

[boozehound]

i actually said the same exxact thing regarding his weaknesses earlier in this thread i believe. i know i mentioned his butterfingers and inconsistent play, but he was a beast towards the end of last year where those inconsistencies were much fewer and far between.

all in all tho he's a borderline star, which some people are laughing at. altho i stand by it.

i'm a NBA fan, that follows my fantasy team more than homer'ing players...and i generally pull for underdogs. once they get good i tend to stop watching them, like OKC and Chicago...
so, a blockhead who shows little effort for long stretches and has hands as bad as Kwame Brown is a top 15 PF in the league? You guys are funny

[HylianNightmare]

great for sac town

[RedBlackAttack]

Basically, my position is that he is not as good as those touting him seem to want to think and he isn't as bad as his detractors are indicating.

He is somewhere in the middle.

[1~Gibson~1]

on the entire Hickson thing: when he was a Cav and he was pretty much balling last year, im sure he got absolutely ZERO bids as a top 10-15 player from someone NOT pro-Cavs. Hickson is a good NBA player, no question. but he's inconsistent as hell. everyone has their defects and Hickson's, is that he doesnt play much D, bad work ethic and inconsistency. there were even reports that he and Coach Scott had "disagree" and blah blah blah.

so you guys can say what you want, but lets not act like Cleveland just gave away Al Jefferson or something. we gave up a young big man with potential, and its up to his team/coaches/etc to light a fire under him to bring out a better work ethic.

in return, we got a young wing that can start right away at a position of need, AND a 1st round draft pick. albeit, it'll probably be a low one, but next years draft class is loaded. so the picks that are in the 20s would probably be top 12 picks of this years class.

[Godzuki]

Walter Herrmann (Who?) averaged 20 points per game on 60% shooting in april one time. That tends to happen on awful teams in the last month of the season, because a lot of their opponents don't play for anything and the intensity drops.

Let's look at Clevelands opponents in the last month:

Wizards (twice)
Raptors
Bobcats
Pistons
Bucks
Bulls
Knicks

No wonder he did well. Easy wins for the Bulls and the Knicks, all of those other teams were tanking. The ONLY meaningful game in that stretch was against the Bucks. The Bucks were fighting for that last playoff spot.

Not much to my surprise that was by far the worst Hickson game during that stretch.


i guess the Bucks being one of the best defensive teams in the NBA doesn't count for anything :confusedshrug:

so you're saying he's a scrub?> we'll see next season because you'll be eating a lot of crow

[Godzuki]

so, a blockhead who shows little effort for long stretches and has hands as bad as Kwame Brown is a top 15 PF in the league? You guys are funny


actually he showed unbelievable effort and heart last season, you're still judging him by prior to last season. if anything he was motivated, and played his ass off on a team going nowhere, but it was more a team motivated thing than just JJ, altho i'd say he was a leader in that regard or inspiration to work hard to get wins.

if anything i thought he played decent D last year, and at the very least with a lot of effort playing the Center spot, altho he was overmatched against very tall freak centers, but thats most big men who aren't freaks it seems.

[Godzuki]

Basically, my position is that he is not as good as those touting him seem to want to think and he isn't as bad as his detractors are indicating.

He is somewhere in the middle.


the way they're trying to portray him i don't know how you can pretend to meet a middle point. i don't think most of us are exaggerating how good he is, nobody has said he's a all star or star even, but i think someone could easily make that argument. when the critics are saying Casspi could be considered better, how JJ only put up numbers because of a team going nowhere in blowout losses, comparing him to Walter Hermann, and you're going to meet them in the middle? :facepalm

whatever. a lot of people here are clueless when they don't watch, or if they do just have poor observational skills. i wish this thread could stay stickied to the end of the next season....

[chips93]

actually he showed unbelievable effort and heart last season, you're still judging him by prior to last season. if anything he was motivated, and played his ass off on a team going nowhere, but it was more a team motivated thing than just JJ, altho i'd say he was a leader in that regard or inspiration to work hard to get wins.

if anything i thought he played decent D last year, and at the very least with a lot of effort playing the Center spot, altho he was overmatched against very tall freak centers, but thats most big men who aren't freaks it seems.


him and scott clashed fairly frequently due to his lack of commitment and effort

http://www.hoopsnotes.com/teams/cleveland/byron-scott-slams-j-j-hickson-after-game/

[mrhoopfan]

Ehhh. I would not say that. He is still only 22, crazier things have happened in the NBA. He has improved every year he has been in the league and has shown explosiveness at times, it just needs to be consistent. Still, I would not be happy trading JJ straight up for Casspi. Give me Casspi and Greene or Casspi and Thompson, I might be a little happier.

Don't be ashamed to say he could be a star......it's true. not a superstar but possibly an all star. Hickson played 7 minutes/game less than Al Horford and had similar stats last season. He is a guy that can face up and actually play with his back t the basket. if they can get a nice veteran pg who can run the offense and stick the open jumper, Sacramento will be tough!

[Godzuki]

The Kings traded Udrih away because even though he is a great facilitator, albeit the best on the Kings, he couldn't defend anybody. Hence why they traded for John Salmons who can consistently defend on the wing and hit open jump shots. He knows he's being brought in for that, and he knows he doesn't have to create on offense.

Jimmer isn't going to be the starting PG, it's going to be Evans. And Evans is a good defender when he has been healthy. He wasn't healthy at all last season. Thornton would be starting at SG and he's underrated at the defensive end.

As for the draft, the Kings said so themselves that even if they were still picking at 7, they wouldn't have picked Knight. He has great potential but they don't want to wait around for him to develop because they are attempting to win now. Knight has a huge problem just driving to his left and that didn't go over well with the team officials.

As for the move of Hickson, it's not like they added him to be a creator on offense. They added him to create some havoc on the offensive rim. The Kings are still looking to add another center, and if it's a big name, there's no guarantee Hickson even sees over 20 minutes a night.


:wtf:

:facepalm

[Scoooter]

I really like both these guys. If you're looking to build a team with young talent you could do a lot worse. Casspi especially I like. Tall, athletic, smart, can shoot. Hickson's got some talent; it would have been interesting to see him with Nash.

[Nastradamus]

Don't be ashamed to say he could be a star......it's true. not a superstar but possibly an all star. Hickson played 7 minutes/game less than Al Horford and had similar stats last season. He is a guy that can face up and actually play with his back t the basket. if they can get a nice veteran pg who can run the offense and stick the open jumper, Sacramento will be tough!

lol, Horford with no D is NOT a good player.

and for those saying it, Fredette was brought in to be the PG so Evans doesn't have to play it. Not that it really matters, but that's the plan I'm pretty sure.

[Nastradamus]

The Kings traded Udrih away because even though he is a great facilitator, albeit the best on the Kings, he couldn't defend anybody. Hence why they traded for John Salmons who can consistently defend on the wing and hit open jump shots. He knows he's being brought in for that, and he knows he doesn't have to create on offense.

Jimmer isn't going to be the starting PG, it's going to be Evans. And Evans is a good defender when he has been healthy. He wasn't healthy at all last season. Thornton would be starting at SG and he's underrated at the defensive end.

As for the draft, the Kings said so themselves that even if they were still picking at 7, they wouldn't have picked Knight. He has great potential but they don't want to wait around for him to develop because they are attempting to win now. Knight has a huge problem just driving to his left and that didn't go over well with the team officials.

As for the move of Hickson, it's not like they added him to be a creator on offense. They added him to create some havoc on the offensive rim. The Kings are still looking to add another center, and if it's a big name, there's no guarantee Hickson even sees over 20 minutes a night.

Udrih actually isn't a great facilitator, but he's extremely efficient and more PG skills than Fredette or Evans. I'm pretty sure Fredette was brought in to be the PG so Evans doesn't have to play it. Salmons can not consistently defend anyone and he won't settle for a role shooting spot up jumpers. He's not good at it and he'll pout and won't try on D if he doesn't get shots. Thompson is the only top 7 player who can defend, maybe Tyreke if he keeps working at it, but its hard for your to scorer to also have to defend the other teams best G. That means Fredette or Thornton gets that role most of the time, yeesh. They will really miss Dalembert if they lose him. His defensive metrics are usually amonsgst the best in the league and he and Casspi were their 2 best defenders. Like I said too though, Honeycutt will help. This kid was 11th on the Hollinger draft rater and that thing is rarely that off for a guy like Honeycutt.

[RedBlackAttack]

the way they're trying to portray him i don't know how you can pretend to meet a middle point. i don't think most of us are exaggerating how good he is, nobody has said he's a all star or star even, but i think someone could easily make that argument. when the critics are saying Casspi could be considered better, how JJ only put up numbers because of a team going nowhere in blowout losses, comparing him to Walter Hermann, and you're going to meet them in the middle? :facepalm

whatever. a lot of people here are clueless when they don't watch, or if they do just have poor observational skills. i wish this thread could stay stickied to the end of the next season....

Yeah, I agree with you here. Those acting as though Hickson is some bench-warming scrub who is unworthy of even being discussed as a new addition to any team are completely off-base. I would say that he was a middle-of-the-road starting 4 in this league last season, which is actually pretty good for a 22-year-old.

Now, it also helped him statistically that he was basically the focal point for the team (however bad it may have been), but he is no slouch.

If you are saying that he is maybe the 15th best 4 in the NBA, I might be on board with that. Maybe that is a little high, but it isn't blasphemy. He had a matchup advantage against the opposing team about half of the time last year, I would estimate.

His defense also isn't as horrendous as some are saying. Well, let me clarify... It is often horrendous, but it isn't due to a lack of skill or slow feet or anything that can never be corrected... It is just his penchant for falling asleep often on both ends of the floor.

If he can ever get around his inconsistencies and his mental lapses, he could vault into the Top 15. That is a big 'if,' though.

[LJJ]

You said that Hickson put up numbers against teams who weren't trying because they were blowing out the Cavs. That is just flat-out untrue. Now, you have molded your argument into something different... That teams didn't care because it was the end of the season.

Just so we know, for future reference... Which games 'count' and which don't? Are the only games that counted for JJ last year the ones early in the season before the trade when the team was in total disarray? That seems more than a little unfair for a 22-year-old player and I was never the biggest proponent of JJ Hickson.

Just picking out a different random month during the course of the season, here are some numbers that he put up...

PHI (loss 95-91) - 22 points (9-15), 16 rebounds
NYK (win 115-109) - 24 points (9-17), 15 rebounds
LAC (win 126-119) - 27 points (12-19), 14 rebounds
DET (loss 103-94) - 18 points (8-12), 15 rebounds
DAL (win 99-96) - 26 points (12-18), 12 rebounds
MEM (loss 112-105) - 31 points (11-21), 15 rebounds
WAS (loss 115-110) - 16 points (7-18), 13 rebounds
LAL (win 104-99) - 13 points (6-18), 15 rebounds


Those eight games make up the majority of his play for the month of February. There are some good teams mixed in there, they weren't all total blowouts and they weren't at the end of the season when, by your logic, no one cares.

How can these be explained?

You are the one pointing out his play in april buddy. I'm not molding my argument into something different. My criticism of his april performance is very valid, a lot of teams are simply out of the running at that point.

Just concede, don't shift the argument around like a little punk.

I'm not the one bringing up stretches of his play, I'm completely fine with simply going with every game as a measuring stick. Which means his numbers were 14ppg, 9rpg on 45% shooting as a low post player, on a very very bad team with very limited other options.

You can cherry pick his greatest games or stretches of the season all you want, but the bottom line is that Hickson is not the greatest anything in this league. At best he is slightly above the very worst starting PFs in the league, in the 20-25 range of starting PFs. At best.

[RedBlackAttack]

Hickson is not the greatest anything in this league.
Now, if you would kindly point me to the section of my post (any of my posts) where I offered up the idea that JJ was 'the best' anything. I've made my position pretty clear. I said that he is a middle-of-the-road starting PF in this league. You say he is around the 20-25th 'best' starting 4 in the NBA...

Of course, your argument was null and void when you made the Walter Hermann comparison. You are all over the place. Is he a mediocre starting 4 or is he Walter Hermann, who was never a starting caliber player at any point in his career? Hell, Hermann's career lasted only, what? Three years? Hickson is already ahead of him, there.

It was a silly comparison. The sooner you admit that the better. In the 20-25 range for starting PFs is not unreasonable and I wouldn't even disagree (that is pretty much what I've been saying all along).

[Calabis]

Wasn't Hickson dropping about 18 and 10 the last month or so of the season, dumb move by Cavs imo

[RedBlackAttack]

Wasn't Hickson dropping about 18 and 10 the last month or so of the season
That doesn't count. Please follow the conversation closely... And, it was actually 20/12 in the last month.

[LJJ]

I used Walter Herrmann to point out that great production in april, on a horrible team, is completely meaningless. That doesn't say anything about a player.

So yes, Herrmann is terrible. That was exactly my point genius.

[RedBlackAttack]

I used Walter Herrmann to point out that great production in april, on a horrible team, is completely meaningless. That doesn't say anything about a player.

So yes, Herrmann is terrible. That was exactly my point genius.
It was a really dumb point... Which is why I followed it up by pointing out another really great month that Hickson had earlier in the season.

When a player has multiple great months in a single season, doesn't the Hermann/April comparison go out the window?

Look, if you are saying that Hickson is on a level of terrible comparable with Walter Hermann in any way, shape or form, you are off-base. Period. Not much more to say.

I'm quite certain that the rest of the board would agree with me.

[LJJ]

It was a really dumb point... Which is why I followed it up by pointing out another really great month that Hickson had earlier in the season.

When a player has multiple great months in a single season, doesn't the Hermann/April comparison go out the window?

Look, if you are saying that Hickson is on a level of terrible comparable with Walter Hermann in any way, shape or form, you are off-base. Period. Not much more to say.

I'm quite certain that the rest of the board would agree with me.

I didn't compare him to Hermann. I only referenced his april production, period. Stop drawing up straw men. It's logical that production in april against teams that are tanking is a meaningless anomaly at best, that you don't understand this very simple logic is completely on you. It's the exact same reasoning that applies to pre-season games being meaningless.

The point is this: If Hickson was exceptionally good for long stretches? Those games all factor in his total season averages as well. So why do you have to cherry pick his numbers? His averages are a good benchmark for his performance this season. Which was less that stellar. 14 points on 45% from the low post? Really? That's something to get excited about? On the worst team in the league? Get out of here.

[Scoooter]

JJ Hickson is the best PF named JJ in the league.

[LJJ]

Look, if you are saying that Hickson is on a level of terrible comparable with Walter Hermann in any way, shape or form, you are off-base. Period. Not much more to say.

I'm quite certain that the rest of the board would agree with me.

You still sure about that buddy?

:roll:



Bump because, much gold in this thread. Godzuki the idiot.

[33teeth]

LOL.

Poor JJ. I hope he's able to resurrect himself, but I have no problems with him being off the Kings. Terrible year for him.

Maybe in a well structured offense with attention drawn to others and lots of passing he'll have a chance.