This is the most aesthetically pleasing 50 point game of all-time

[Fatal9]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUf4sCUsDpI

oh lawd, barely any layups, just unbelievable shooting ability (lol MJ could never pull this off, just didn't have the shooting/range).

[Samurai Swoosh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUf4sCUsDpI

oh lawd, barely any layups, just unbelievable shooting ability (lol MJ could never pull this off, just didn't have the shooting ability).
What does MJ have to do with a 2006 Lakers v.s. Phoenix game?

And since when can't layups, dunks, drives, mid range jumpers be any less aesthetically pleasing than longer jumpers?

Especially Jordan's layups. Ridiculous body control.

With that said this game is teh sickness, though.

Guy was literally knocking down like 30 - 35 footers.

:oldlol:

[DRose1899]

Fatal9 = Jacks3. :facepalm

[Fatal9]

MJ phags mad as hell their boy didn't have that sort of shooting ability.


http://i462.photobucket.com/albums/qq342/REOP1234/deal-with-it.gif

[Bring-Your-Js]

Fatal9 = Jacks3. :facepalm

Really?

Fatal posts about Kareem, Bird and Olajuwon just as much. Good stuff too. Jacks is an out and out Bird hater.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Fatal9 = Jacks3. :facepalm
Yup. There is a family of them that are all the same poster, add Roundball Rock. Immortal24, too. These guys never post at the same time. There is two or three different people that work together. And I kid you not. The "bruceblitz" of this crazy contingent is KB42PAH.

The guy who self admittedly found out Kobe was attending a wedding. Snuck into said wedding. Met Kobe, asked for a pic with him. Kobe said later. Then the kid FOLLOWED KOBE TO THE BATHROOM ... like a psycho stalker. As if stalking him at a wedding wasn't bad enough. Then after Mamba finished wiggling it, asked to take a picture with him.

He posted the picture either here or on a Laker forum. And it's real disturbing.

Kobe looks visibly pissed off in the photo ... like "I can't believe this kid, just did this"

:oldlol:

P.S. None of this is made up. I used to talk to the kid on AIM. He's a certifiable nutball.

[Bring-Your-Js]

Although, the MJ bashing used to be more subtle. :oldlol:

[Samurai Swoosh]

MJ phags mad as hell their boy didn't have that sort of shooting ability.
You mad I'm the G.O.A.T.?

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lifjn3jWAz1qhjerpo1_400.gif

[DRose1899]

Really?

Fatal posts about Kareem, Bird and Olajuwon just as much. Good stuff too. Jacks is an out and out Bird hater.
Just talking bout their Kobe shipping :violin:

And I'm bigger kobe fans than MJ (Well, I'm an young fan so)

[Samurai Swoosh]

^^ lol, you actually saying I am those guys? not sure if serious, posted so many pics on this site before they were getting photoshopped (you even know my real name).
Maybe not you bro ... but Roundball Rock is on suspicion, Jacks3, Alpha Wolf, Ne1, there is a bunch of them that talk in the exact same way KB42PAH used to spit his delusional garbage.

Do you know who KB42PAH is bro?

[ThaSwagg3r]

It is pretty funny considering how the Lakers lost that game. :oldlol: It is pretty awesome though to see someone score 51 points under 19 FGM and only 2 FTM.

[andgar923]

http://youtu.be/Ye-0ghhY7uw

http://youtu.be/fp__LVQvC7M

[Fatal9]

It is pretty funny considering how the Lakers lost that game. :oldlol: It is pretty awesome though to see someone score 51 points under 19 FGM and only 2 FTM.
51 points on 68 TS% and almost all jumpers. Not sure if anyone else other than Bird has that sort of ability. lmao at how the Laker bench got outscored 35-6.

[Fatal9]

http://youtu.be/Ye-0ghhY7uw

http://youtu.be/fp__LVQvC7M
one of them is not even a 50 point game phaggggot and the other one is boring as fukk, stopped watching half way through.

[az00m]

MJ shoots higher % on midrange than kobe. I'm sorry that kobe isn't athletic enough too take it to the rim.

[az00m]

one of them is not even a 50 point game phaggggot and the other one is boring as fukk, stopped watching half way through.

Yeah at least he shoots better than kobe even at 38!

[Fatal9]

You mad I'm the G.O.A.T.?

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lifjn3jWAz1qhjerpo1_400.gif
this has nothing to do with the original topic :hammerhead:

[Fatal9]

Yeah at least he shoots better than kobe even at 38!
MJ at 38 had the second least efficient 20+ ppg shooting season in post-merger NBA history. lol @ how insecure you phags are.

[Samurai Swoosh]

this has nothing to do with the original topic
You know damn well I'm kidding with this competitive stuff right now.

:oldlol:

[Fatal9]

You know damn well I'm kidding with this competitive stuff right now.
http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj-laughing.gif

GOAT

but back to the topic on hand...

[andgar923]

one of them is not even a 50 point game phaggggot and the other one is boring as fukk, stopped watching half way through.

You obviously didn't get the point I was trying to make.

"Aesthetically pleasing" is very subjective, doesn't mean much actually. But it's actually a thread created because you and your ilk are the 'insecure' ones. So insecure that you feel the need to start re-interpreting shit.

Btw... I was trying to kill many birds with one stone with those posts.

A. That "Aesthetically pleasing" is highly subjective
B. That MJ as an old f@rt against today's defense can do it as well.
C. MJ would've torched those Suns as well, even more if he were in his prime.

We saw him embarrass Marion, and I can post vids of him killing Bell as well, should I?

[Samurai Swoosh]

and I can post vids of him killing Bell as well, should I?
For the hell of it sure ...

Kobe and MJ really are different players.

Kobe is a long range bomber. A long distant sniper.

MJ is an attacker, mid range artist, a ridiculous finisher @ the rim.

All depends on your preferance. Either way I win cause they are my two favorite players.

Speaking of this ridiculous long range barrage from Kobe, anyone got the video of Bird dropping 60 on those niggs on the Hawks?

He showed some ridic range in that one too.

:pimp:

[BEAST Griffin]

Yup. There is a family of them that are all the same poster, add Roundball Rock. Immortal24, too. These guys never post at the same time. There is two or three different people that work together. And I kid you not. The "bruceblitz" of this crazy contingent is KB42PAH.

The guy who self admittedly found out Kobe was attending a wedding. Snuck into said wedding. Met Kobe, asked for a pic with him. Kobe said later. Then the kid FOLLOWED KOBE TO THE BATHROOM ... like a psycho stalker. As if stalking him at a wedding wasn't bad enough. Then after Mamba finished wiggling it, asked to take a picture with him.

He posted the picture either here or on a Laker forum. And it's real disturbing.

Kobe looks visibly pissed off in the photo ... like "I can't believe this kid, just did this"

:oldlol:

P.S. None of this is made up. I used to talk to the kid on AIM. He's a certifiable nutball.

AlphaWolf24 = KB42PAH

[Brunch@Five]

a score of 91-100 in favor of the opponent is not aesthetically pleasing.

[Xsatyr]

one of them is not even a 50 point game phaggggot and the other one is boring as fukk, stopped watching half way through.

Why has your maturity level not changed over the years? I like to find old threads and see how much my approach changed in debates. It seems growth has not been your friend.

[Indian guy]

Not really getting the logic. A lot of long jumpers = very aesthetically pleasing? Uhh, if that's your thing. Kobe doesn't even look all that graceful in this game. I prefer his 50 point games in 06-07, to be honest. Smoother looking game.

I'll personally take MJ's no-wasted-motions style of play and unparalleled grace for someone that explosive any day. And if jumpers is your thing, I'll easily take this (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tbc7oEOJpco) over the game you posted. Kobe can't really compete with MJ's grace.

[OmniStrife]

Fatal9 has nightmares about MJ....

"aesthetically pleasing"?? lol, MJ could penetrate at will and didn't have to rely on chucking like Kobe.

For every good shooting game Kobe had 3 bad ones.

[Indian guy]

Aesthetics in itself is a very subjective thing. What may be beautiful to you may not be to somebody else.

[The-Legend-24]

PMTA GOAT?
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/kobe24clutch/TI.gif

[The-Legend-24]

It was only a matter of time before this turned into a Kobe vs MJ thread. :oldlol:

[Samurai Swoosh]

Aesthetics in itself is a very subjective thing. What may be beautiful to you may not be to somebody else.
This too.

But as I said ...

MJ is an attacker, Kobe is a bomber.

MJ's the better player because he's a weapon with more consistency, and by attacking he creates other weapons and causes more problems for the defense.

Also, I've never heard anyone say MJ's game wasn't physically appealing.

There was no flopping and falling down all the time ala Wade. There wasn't shot jacking, long range heat check and super ineffeciency ala Kobe, T-Mac and Iverson, there wasn't a severe lack of fundamentals, footwork, and offensive skill set ala LeBron ... he attacked the rim with super agility, but didn't lack the ability to hit jumpers with consistency ala Westbrook, Rose, etc.

He knocked down shots consistently. Got to the rim and FINISHED STRONG or ELEGANTLY consistently.

His body control and work at the rim or around the rim was BREATH taking.

[Indian guy]

It was only a matter of time before this turned into a Kobe vs MJ thread. :oldlol:

Umm, the OP made it an MJ vs. Kobe thread with this
(lol MJ could never pull this off, just didn't have the shooting/range).

[The-Legend-24]

Umm, the OP made it an MJ vs. Kobe thread with this
Ohh.. My bad didn't see that part. :D

[Samurai Swoosh]

Umm, the OP made it an MJ vs. Kobe thread with this
The young ones who would think Kobe is GOAT are still in school learning the basics of reading being fundamental.

:oldlol:

[The-Legend-24]

The young ones who would think Kobe is GOAT are still in school learning the basics of reading being fundamental.

:oldlol:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/kobe24clutch/situation-derp-1.gif

[Samurai Swoosh]

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/kobe24clutch/situation-derp-1.gif
http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbkwfwaxQf1qed7g6o1_500.gif

[The-Legend-24]

http://26.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lbkwfwaxQf1qed7g6o1_500.gif
:oldlol:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/kobe24clutch/jersey-shore-silly.gif

[The-Legend-24]

:oldlol:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/kobe24clutch/jersey-shore-silly.gif
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/kobe24clutch/raonnie.gif

[miller-time]

MJ at 38 had the second least efficient 20+ ppg shooting season in post-merger NBA history. lol @ how insecure you phags are.

never mind,

[Samurai Swoosh]

http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/kobe24clutch/raonnie.gif
You can't quote your own post, bruh ... and let's stop with the Jersey Shore GIFs. I loved the show till it got played out by mid season while they were in South Beach. Let us allow it to die.

:(

[The-Legend-24]

You can't quote your own post, bruh ... and let's stop with the Jersey Shore GIFs. I loved the show till it got played out by mid season while they were in South Beach. Let us allow it to die.

:(
Okay... :mad:
http://i1140.photobucket.com/albums/n579/kobe24clutch/30j3d51.gif

[bdreason]

This video highlights one of the major reasons Jordan was better than Kobe. I saw way too many jumpers against a 2006 Suns team that played little defense. Jordan would have attacked the rim all day against that team, getting to the FT line, and creating more opportunities for the entire team.

[DRose1899]

This too.

But as I said ...

MJ is an attacker, Kobe is a bomber.

MJ's the better player because he's a weapon with more consistency, and by attacking he creates other weapons and causes more problems for the defense.

Also, I've never heard anyone say MJ's game wasn't physically appealing.

TBH, I don't found MJ games is that exciting though even with all of his acrobatic shooting watching its from highlight or his highlight or old games.

I mean its feel so robotic, its just so perfect and that's ridiculous.. n his athleticism feels so different than such like kobe or rose, its just like panther that so strong and fast.

[Indian guy]

This thread is also a nice excuse for me to post some of my favorite 50+ points games by MJ.

53 vs. Pacers(1987) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n8DP6Ga9m2s)

53 vs. Suns(1989)
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lZ0ALQFoYac)

54 vs. Cavaliers(1989) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gmesUA1mGbI)

56 vs. Heat(1992) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwSpGOH8X4)


54 vs. Lakers(1992) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1a-B8y3WIU)

55 vs. Suns(1993) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0DoSWRX9re4)

55 vs. Bullets(1997) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jk_3bbX_pG8)

[andgar923]

Funny people always say that Mj didn't have "the range" that Kobe did.

Uh... Mj was stronger than Kobe, just because he didn't elect to shoot long range jumpers, it doesn't mean he couldn't be as effective if not more if he decided to chuck them up.

By those standards, I guess Arenas and Crawford are also better than MJ?

And since MJ and I believe even Bron have more half court shots, that makes their range even better no?

http://youtu.be/4A6TZ0AM_pA

Shit... MJ's half court shots look about the same as Kobe's 3pt shots.

MJ GOAT!!!!

[Samurai Swoosh]

TBH, I don't found MJ games is that exciting though even with all of his acrobatic shooting watching its from highlight or his highlight or old games.

I mean its feel so robotic, its just so perfect and that's ridiculous.. n his athleticism feels so different than such like kobe or rose, its just like panther that so strong and fast.
How old are you?

You just completely contradicted yourself in like a few sentences.

He's "robotic" ... but moved like a "panther" ...

You can't be stiff and robotic, and then compare him to an elegant and graceful animal.

Black cat aka a panther ... being one of his nick names by the way because he moved so agile, and elegant ... with free flowing natural grace ... just like an animal.

You may not find it appealing. But it captured the imagination of a generation of people from the mid 80's to the late 90's.

Included is Kobe's game, and Rose.

Rose being from Chicago, is clearly influenced by Jordan.

You know his signature reverse layup you see him pull off so often in games?

That's ALL MJ right there.

[imlmf]

so being able to attack in all possible way (being impossible to stop and the greatest scoring guard of all time) is a bad thing now? Jordan's game is the most aesthetic thing that ever embraced the game of basketball, from the penetration lay-ups/dunk to fade aways (which kobe TRIES to COPY all the time), from offense to defense, from power to skill

kobe nut-huggers bringing it to another level, but MJ = the GOAT and you fa99ot-azz nikkaz deal with it.:rockon: :rockon:

[Samurai Swoosh]

Funny people always say that Mj didn't have "the range" that Kobe did.

Uh... Mj was stronger than Kobe, just because he didn't elect to shoot long range jumpers, it doesn't mean he couldn't be as effective if not more if he decided to chuck them up.

By those standards, I guess Arenas and Crawford are also better than MJ?

And since MJ and I believe even Bron have more half court shots, that makes their range even better no?

http://youtu.be/4A6TZ0AM_pA

Shit... MJ's half court shots look about the same as Kobe's 3pt shots.

MJ GOAT!!!!
It's as simple as this ... MJ could shoot the 3 when he wanted, he proved that time and time again.

But no he doesn't have the range of Kobe.

The reverse side to that is that it made him the better player.

He could get to the rim at will against any defense, so what's the need to shoot 30+ footers?

He was the smarter basketball player.

[DRose1899]

How old are you?

You just completely contradicted yourself in like a few sentences.

He's "robotic" ... but moved like a "panther" ...

You can't be stiff and robotic, and then compare him to an elegant and graceful animal.

Black cat aka a panther ... being one of his nick names by the way because he moved so agile, and elegant ... with free flowing natural grace ... just like an animal.

You may not find it appealing. But it captured the imagination of a generation of people from the mid 80's to the late 90's.

Included is Kobe's game, and Rose.

Rose being from Chicago, is clearly influenced by Jordan.

You know his signature reverse layup you see him pull off so often in games?

That's ALL MJ right there.
Seems like it, my vocab isn't the best. :lol

I mean MJ did it like its feel so easy, so not much of "wow, that's such a crazy shot there" vibe from it.

And he move to left and right just as easy he dribbling straight, the hell you do that?

I'm only 19, still catching up for the old days.

[Samurai Swoosh]

I'm only 19, still catching up for the old days.
Oh, well take your time bro ...

Find a player you enjoy and study his game.

:pimp:

[andgar923]

It's as simple as this ... MJ could shoot the 3 when he wanted, he proved that time and time again.

But no he doesn't have the range of Kobe.

The reverse side to that is that it made him the better player.

He could get to the rim at will against any defense, so what's the need to shoot 30+ footers?

He was the smarter basketball player.

Why would people say he doesn't have the same range?

Just because he didn't shoot *cough cough chuck* as many shots? I never understood that logic. When MJ did indeed shot longer range shots, he was still effective, because as we all saw, he was stronger and had better body control (balance).

[andgar923]

Seems like it, my vocab isn't the best. :lol

I mean MJ did it like its feel so easy, so not much of "wow, that's such a crazy shot there" vibe from it.

And he move to left and right just as easy he dribbling straight, the hell you do that?

I'm only 19, still catching up for the old days.

At least you're honest, and appear to wanna learn more. :cheers:

[ShaqAttack3234]

This one comes to mind. So many ridiculously difficult jumpers. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SpWAyV-S7P0

This one as well. Looked so effortless. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_ma-03aeIE

[Samurai Swoosh]

Why would people say he doesn't have the same range?
Because he really doesn't. Kobe from 2006 - recently ... will consistently shoot from ridiculous lengths.

Jordan would shoot long range shots to beat a shot clock or a buzzer beater once in awhile.

So via that alone ... it's easy to tell Kobe has more natural range.

You act like MJ is superior at everything. That's what makes you a homer.

[andgar923]

Because he really doesn't. Kobe from 2006 - recently ... will consistently shoot from ridiculous lengths.

Jordan would shoot long range shots to beat a shot clock or a buzzer beater once in awhile.

So via that alone ... it's easy to tell Kobe has more natural range.

You act like MJ is superior at everything. That's what makes you a homer.

No, I don't believe MJ is the best at everything. I just don't accept the argument people make.

It's kinda like people just assume that Kobe is superior at having a better long range shot than MJ, when it isn't the case. More attempts doesn't necessarily make him a better long range shooter. More attempts just means more attempts, it'll be a different argument if MJ consistently showed that he couldn't make them, but that isn't the case either. It's almost a throwaway statement when people state that imo... "oh... Kobe has a better long range game" as if it aint even up for debate (that's how it comes across at least). But we've seen MJ hit long tough range jumpers repeatedly in his career, and not just as bail out shots either. He would occasionally pull up off one dribble and pop that in.

I don't mind if people state that it's arguable that Kobe has a better long range shot. It's just the dismissiveness in which people say it that I find wrong. I mean... i'd understand if there was evidence that showed without a shadow of a doubt, Kobe blows him away, but there isn't. That's how it's portrayed, and it also seems as tho some people just go "ehh... let Kobe have that for argument's sake." That's how myths and lies get born and spread, such as the 'Zone' bullshit that got orchestrated by Alphawolf (Kpah) a few years ago.

[eliteballer]

andgar has to be one of the most dilusional posters in the boards history. The "evidence" you need is thus:

Jordan is a career 29% shooter from the real 3 point line.

He has the worst showing in 3 point contest history.

I mean really...how can you even begin to contemplate saying some of the nonsense your spewing? Even LOCO aka old school bball will disagree with you and he's the biggest Jordan fanatic around.

[andgar923]

andgar has to be one of the most dilusional posters in the boards history. The "evidence" you need is thus:

Jordan is a career 29% shooter from the real 3 point line.

He has the worst showing in 3 point contest history.

And Kobe's will go down as his career winds down.

Do you wanna compare 'playoff' 3pt percentage?

and I didn't know this was solely about 3pt shots. I might be wrong, but I thought it was just long range shots in general (of course including the 3pt line).

[ballerz]

Just because kobe is a better three point shooter doesn't make him the GOAT. Is steve kerr the GOAT because he has the highest 3 point percentage? no don't be stupid

[Blue&Orange]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUf4sCUsDpI

oh lawd, barely any layups, just unbelievable shooting ability (lol MJ could never pull this off, just didn't have the shooting/range).
If it wasn't Smush Parker stealing the ball from Nash and passing it to Kobe for the open three that 50 point game wouldn't had happen, so my props to Smush.

[Mirjalovic]

Just because kobe is a better three point shooter doesn't make him the GOAT. Is steve kerr the GOAT because he has the highest 3 point percentage? no don't be stupid
& then by what ???

your logic is broken..

FG percentage ? Tyson Chandler is higher.
FT% ? Sasha Vujacic is better
& the list goes on..

[creepingdeath]

a score of 91-100 in favor of the opponent is not aesthetically pleasing.
http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj-laughing.gif

[Jacks3]

These MJ phags about to ruin another thread. :facepalm

[pete's montreux]

When I read "aesthetically pleasing" a game with mostly jumpers was the last thing that came to mind

pierce's only 50 point game (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KR2Nzkh4yvQ&feature=related), a plethora of moves you just never see anymore, some shit pierce had never done and will never do again, he was just ballin'

difficult jumpers, hard step-backs, running spin moves, dunks, three or four moves you watch and you're thinking how the fk did he even get to the rim, just awkward looking plays that only happen in a 50 or 60 point game

and it's just a good game, lebron's 43 td vs pierce's 50/7/8 in a 2OT thriller, and they guarded each other for the most part

[Dragonyeuw]

It was only a matter of time before this turned into a Kobe vs MJ thread. :oldlol:

It became that after the first post. Apparently it's become impossible to discuss one without the other's name popping up. Alot of insecurity on both sides..... I don't see why we can't just enjoy each player for what they were/are.

[Skywalker]

crawford's game when he hit like 16 shots in a row was nice

jennings obviously was sick

[Samurai Swoosh]

Alot of insecurity on both sides..... .
From Fatal9, Jacks3, and andgar ... read my posts in here.

[BlackJoker23]

From Fatal9, Jacks3, and andgar ... read my posts in here.
fatal9 definitely aint insecure. hes always owning cats leaving them dumbfounded. he's the kareem of posters.:bowdown: the other two definitely are tho.

[kaiiu]

MJ stans goin bonkers in this hoe

[KenneBell]

:oldlol: at dudes trying to argue that MJ was as good of the 3 shooter as Kobe. Damn, the dude is probably GOAT but he can't do everything best. He never showed that 25 to 30 foot range Kobe or even Vince had.

[Samurai Swoosh]

fatal9 definitely aint insecure.
That or he felt like causing this because he basically jumped the shark and threw a jab @ the obvious insecure Jordan fans from the get go.

:oldlol:

I like Fatal9, and I know how he is as a poster ... you don't need to describe to me. I've been here longer than you.

:pimp:

[pete's montreux]

fatal's jordan trolling is hilarious

[Kblaze8855]

Tmac back in 03 when he put up like 35-36 a game the second half and every 2-3 games would drop like 20 in the first quarter was disgusting. He had a game vs I think the Nuggets that was almost disturbing to watch. Not the 51 in 04. It was 2003. Cant find video though...

[BlackJoker23]

That or he felt like causing this because he basically jumped the shark and threw a jab @ the obvious insecure Jordan fans from the get go.
this.mastermind trolling :bowdown:

[KenneBell]

For every good shooting game Kobe had 3 bad ones.
This doesn't even make sense.

[Samurai Swoosh]

He had a game vs I think the Nuggets that was almost disturbing to watch. Not the 51 in 04. It was 2003. Cant find video though...
What made it disturbing?

:oldlol:

[Bring-Your-Js]

fatal's jordan trolling is hilarious

The Chamberlain version is even better IMO.

[Samurai Swoosh]

This doesn't even make sense.
Huh?

For every hot Kobe shooting game where he's hitting all kinds of ridiculous shots.

You will get a few 6 - 24 -ish type games. That's what he's getting @

[Samurai Swoosh]

The Chamberlain version is even better IMO.
Wat dat?

:oldlol:

[Bring-Your-Js]

Huh?

For every hot Kobe shooting game where he's hitting all kinds of ridiculous shots.

You will get a few 6 - 24 -ish type games. That's what he's getting @

Saw that. :oldlol:

[KenneBell]

Huh?

For every hot Kobe shooting game where he's hitting all kinds of ridiculous shots.

You will get a few 6 - 24 -ish type games. That's what he's getting @
Maybe one for one. It wouldn't average out otherwise.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Maybe one for one. It wouldn't average out otherwise.
I don't think it's 1 v 1 at all. I could show you the game logs from this year alone to prove otherwise.

[pete's montreux]

LMAO 6 for 24

6 for 24 ...these numbers are just as famous as any other number associated with ISH and the league: 23-33-34 etc etc

[KenneBell]

I don't think it's 1 v 1 at all. I could show you the game logs from this year alone to prove otherwise.
He had 32 games shooting over 50% this year and 23 under 40%. So yeah...

[Samurai Swoosh]

He had 32 games shooting over 50% this year and 23 under 40%. So yeah...
But what were those percentages under 40%?

[Bring-Your-Js]

He had 32 games shooting over 50% this year and 23 under 40%. So yeah...

Give it a rest.

Bryant has 190 games of 30+ pts shooting 50+%. He hasn't even passed Barkley yet.

[KenneBell]

But what were those percentages under 40%?
Anywhere from 39% to 27%. The 27% ones were both 3-11 games towards the end of 2010.

[KenneBell]

Give it a rest.

Bryant has 190 games of 30+ pts shooting 50+%. He hasn't even passed Barkley yet.
And? Is 50% the arbitrary number of choice for a "good" 30+ point game? No.

[rodman91]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUf4sCUsDpI

oh lawd, barely any layups, just unbelievable shooting ability (lol MJ could never pull this off, just didn't have the shooting/range).

If this is most aesthetically pleasing 50 point game you have ever seen, you haven't watch many games.

%80 jumpers and %20 lay ups. Nothing aesthetic about it.

Even this 51 point game is prettier. :lol At least there are enough Up and unders & double clutch shot,better lay ups.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye-0ghhY7uw

[Samurai Swoosh]

And? Is 50% the arbitrary number of choice for a "good" 30+ point game? No.
50% has always been the standard. Really?

:oldlol:

[AlphaWolf24]

AlphaWolf24 = KB42PAH

http://i39.tinypic.com/2zf0nm9.jpg......that guy subscribed to my youtube channel.....and I posted on his channel, then he banned me for posting Photoshops of Kobe Raping the Celtics...


Interwebz = Serious BizNAZZ!

[KenneBell]

50% has always been the standard. Really?

:oldlol:
Standard for what? Is 45-49% not good?

[Sakkreth]

Despite mad good phoenix defense Lakers still lose :roll:

[KenneBell]

It seems that I've stepped into a troll thread. Will commence exit.

[asdf1990]

Jordan would have dropped 300 points if he faced the tough, hard nosed phx defense.

[AlphaWolf24]

Despite mad good phoenix defense Lakers still lose :roll:


Kwame Brown , Smush Parker . Chris Mihm say HI......

what happened when MJ played with Kwame?......thought so.

Kobe>MJ.....Next

[DRose1899]

If this is most aesthetically pleasing 50 point game you have ever seen, you haven't watch many games.

%80 jumpers and %20 lay ups. Nothing aesthetic about it.

Even this 51 point game is prettier. :lol At least there are enough Up and unders & double clutch shot,better lay ups.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ye-0ghhY7uw
Its clear like Rodman's gay hair-color he's trolling bro.

[Clutch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUf4sCUsDpI

oh lawd, barely any layups, just unbelievable shooting ability (lol MJ could never pull this off, just didn't have the shooting/range).
Which pixel is Kobe ? :oldlol:

[BlackJoker23]

Jordan would have dropped 300 points if he faced the tough, hard nosed phx defense.
no but he wouldve most def dropped more than kobe did.

[AlphaWolf24]

Jordan would have dropped 300 points if he faced the tough, hard nosed phx defense.


If PHX only had a tough 6'2" SG like Jeff Hornacek , Craig Ehlo , John Starks or Dan Marljle??......darn Raja and Marion....:lol

[Samurai Swoosh]

If PHX only had a tough 6'2" SG like Jeff Hornacek , Craig Ehlo , John Starks or Dan Marljle??......darn Raja and Marion....:lol
Thunder Dan is 6'6, Ehlo is 6'4 / 6'5 ...

Raja is like 6'4.

Marion is 6'7 ... but hey ... as a 38 year old on Marion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp__LVQvC7M

Or since "height" to Kobe stans makes a good defender. As a 38 year old against 7 foot 1 inch Kevin Garnett

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMd1m-OOWH0&feature=related

Stay salty, my friends.

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lifjn3jWAz1qhjerpo1_400.gif

[STATUTORY]

lol @ MJ stans trying to pretend like Kobe don't have a more fluid shooting stroke.

I never seen MJ make that many jumpers in a game ever, even in his HIGHLIGHTS MJ ain't gonna have that many jumpers.

This is why MJ would struggle in today's zone era.

[branslowski]

1. Sick game by Kobe.

2. Andgar...lol

3. Alpha wolf and Pah are not the same person, anyone who has been on YouTube since 07 could tell you that...Both have similar views on certain topics, but trust me they aren't the same poster. Both can be delusional at times but so are we all..

[Samurai Swoosh]

I never seen MJ make that many jumpers in a game ever, even in his HIGHLIGHTS MJ ain't gonna have that many jumpers
:facepalm

MJ's made more jumpers in a game than that ... not from that deep, but he shot way more mid range shots. Less point total per shot, but takes a lot more of them to eclipse 50+ points on mid range shots. Thus, he actually made more shots off jumpers. Simple mathmatics.

:oldlol:

[asdf1990]

Kwame Brown , Smush Parker . Chris Mihm say HI......

what happened when MJ played with Kwame?......thought so.

Kobe>MJ.....Next

what happened when kobe played with a stacked team?

-Lakers lose by 13 in elimination game of 04 finals
-Lakers lose by 39 in elimination game of 08 finals
-Lakers lose by 36 in elimination game of 11 2nd round
-Lakers lose by 28 in elimnation game of 03 2nd round

Jordan only lost one series when pippen became good and that was when he came out of retirement.

MJ>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe

next.

[BlackJoker23]

Thunder Dan is 6'6, Ehlo is 6'4 / 6'5 ...

Raja is like 6'4.

Marion is 6'7 ... but hey ... as a 38 year old on Marion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp__LVQvC7M

Or since "height" to Kobe stans makes a good defender. As a 38 year old against 7 foot 1 inch Kevin Garnett

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMd1m-OOWH0&feature=related

Stay salty, my friends.

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lifjn3jWAz1qhjerpo1_400.gif
lmfao at the sunglasses. mj never had any swag.

[Dragonyeuw]

This is why MJ would struggle in today's zone era.

D.Wade( who's my favorite current player, for the record) is an elite shooting guard against today's defenses, and his jumpshot isn't nearly as money as Jordan's was, the 2nd 3peat version in particular. Why would Jordan struggle, when he's a bigger, stronger, more athletic version of Wade with a better jumpshot?

[AlphaWolf24]

Thunder Dan is 6'6, Ehlo is 6'4 / 6'5 ...

Raja is like 6'4.

Marion is 6'7 ... but hey ... as a 38 year old on Marion

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp__LVQvC7M

Or since "height" to Kobe stans makes a good defender. As a 38 year old against 7 foot 1 inch Kevin Garnett

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GMd1m-OOWH0&feature=related

Stay salty, my friends.

http://29.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lifjn3jWAz1qhjerpo1_400.gif


not just the height......IMO Raja Bell and Marion are better defenders..

[andgar923]

:facepalm

MJ's made more jumpers in a game than that ... not from that deep, but he shot way more mid range shots. Less point total per shot, but takes a lot more of them to eclipse 50+ points on mid range shots. Thus, he actually made more shots off jumpers. Simple mathmatics.

:oldlol:

See what I mean?

People will start saying things long enough it starts to become a given.

And btw... at all the people crying about my posts, they obviously can't read. I NEVER stated that MJ was a better (I'll wait for somebody to quote me on that) 3pt shooter.

As I posted, my issue was at the dismissive tone that was being used.

But of course, people are gonna twist shit around (as usual) and only take the parts that they want to use, all while ignoring my main point.

[andgar923]

not just the height......IMO Raja Bell and Marion are better defenders..

And MJ embarrassed them as an old man.

[Samurai Swoosh]

not just the height......IMO Raja Bell and Marion are better defenders..
Agreed.

Joe Dumars, Gerald Wilkins, Ron Harper (Cavs), Scottie Pippen, John Starks, Doc Rivers, Gary Payton, are vastly superior to them ...

And they played with rules that allowed them to be even better.

[AlphaWolf24]

what happened when kobe played with a stacked team?

-Lakers lose by 13 in elimination game of 04 finals
-Lakers lose by 39 in elimination game of 08 finals
-Lakers lose by 36 in elimination game of 11 2nd round
-Lakers lose by 28 in elimnation game of 03 2nd round

Jordan only lost one series when pippen became good and that was when he came out of retirement.

MJ>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Kobe

next.

:facepalm :lol @ the watered down 90's.....worst era of basketball - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p57WjbKSoJ0&feature=channel_video_title


Kobe = 7 NBA Finals in 11 years as a starter.....talkin bout?

[kaiiu]

Monta Ellis would average 35 ppg in MJs era.

[Samurai Swoosh]

See what I mean?

People will start saying things long enough it starts to become a given.

And btw... at all the people crying about my posts, they obviously can't read. I NEVER stated that MJ was a better (I'll wait for somebody to quote me on that) 3pt shooter.

As I posted, my issue was at the dismissive tone that was being used.

But of course, people are gonna twist shit around (as usual) and only take the parts that they want to use, all while ignoring my main point.
Oh MJ wasn't a bad 3 point shooter by any stretch of the imagination.

I don't think he had Kobe's range, but he also didn't make that the focus of his game to try and impress people, ya know?

So in essence you're kind of right. But at the same time we can't play "what if". As it stands I feel Kobe has superior range.

But as I said MJ didn't need it. Superior bball IQ, could get to the bucket at will ... why waist his time standing 30 - 35 feet from the rim?

That's why he's the most dominant scorer of all-time.

And doing it as a 6'5 shooting guard.

:facepalm

[AlphaWolf24]

Agreed.

Joe Dumars, Gerald Wilkins, Ron Harper (Cavs), Scottie Pippen, John Starks, Doc Rivers, Gary Payton, are vastly superior to them ...

And they played with rules that allowed them to be even better.

IMO not better defenders to guard a 6'6" shooting guard....since all of them were 6'2" - 6'3"...

Marion is better then all of them outside of Pippen(who is MJ's teamate and Harper who was MJ's teamate in the late 90's) for guarding a 6'6" SG



and what rules allowed them to be better......if you looked at MJ wrong it was a foul...

[Calabis]

Jordan as a old man (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chJeKE2646U&feature=related)

18-30(51 pts) 5-8 from three

[asdf1990]

:facepalm :lol @ the watered down 90's.....worst era of basketball - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p57WjbKSoJ0&feature=channel_video_title


Kobe = 7 NBA Finals in 11 years as a starter.....talkin bout?

I like how you dodged everything in that post.

[AlphaWolf24]

I like how you dodged everything in that post.

what did I dodge?.....your opinion that the 04' Lakers were stacked?...:lol

[asdf1990]

what did I dodge?.....your opinion that the 04' Lakers were stacked?...:lol

Lol 04 lakers had shaq... I am looking for a reason to why the GOAT kome gets raped so often in the playoffs with a stacked team.

[Samurai Swoosh]

IMO not better defenders to guard a 6'6" shooting guard....since all of them were 6'2" - 6'3"...
Most of them at smallest were 6'4. Stop exaggerating. Starks is the only 6'2 player you have there.

But like I said ... why do Kobe stans refer to height as being the key to defense? I mean sure it is if you're a jump shooter. Why? Because they can contest your jumper with more regularity.

You do realize one of the best man to man defensive guards in the league today is a 6'3 white guy, right?

MJ was an attacker, settling for jumpers second. Plenty of athletic 6'7-ish defenders had their chance with Jordan and failed.

The reason they put people on him who were smaller was try to negate MJ's extreme quickness.

Clearly you don't understand this though, so it's no use even talking about it with you.

[catch24]

:facepalm :lol @ the watered down 90's.....worst era of basketball - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p57WjbKSoJ0&feature=channel_video_title


Kobe = 7 NBA Finals in 11 years as a starter.....talkin bout?

:facepalm

[AlphaWolf24]

Lol 04 lakers had shaq... I am looking for a reason to why the GOAT kome gets raped so often in the playoffs with a stacked team.


so Shaq played on over 6 50+ win teams capable of winning a Title without Kobe......guess how many times he got Raped in the playoff's???

Out of shape Shaq = Stacked?...ok so again...read above.




next

[STATUTORY]

Monta Ellis would average 35 ppg in MJs era.

on 50% shooting like ALL OTHER players in the 80s

:oldlol: @ that no defense decade

[Roundball_Rock]

:oldlol: at how Samuri still thinks I am someone else. I haven't even been a regular poster for well over a year.

[ImmortalD24]

Yup. There is a family of them that are all the same poster, add Roundball Rock. Immortal24, too.
Notsureifserious. :wtf:

[Pointguard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUf4sCUsDpI

oh lawd, barely any layups, just unbelievable shooting ability (lol MJ could never pull this off, just didn't have the shooting/range).

That's phenomenal shooting. The ball barely hits rim and only hits the sweet part of the rim like three times? Great stuff.

[asdf1990]

so Shaq played on over 6 50+ win teams capable of winning a Title without Kobe......guess how many times he got Raped in the playoff's???

Out of shape Shaq = Stacked?...ok so again...read above.




next

Oh man so stupid. Shaq as a second option> pippen as a second option . Jordan with good pippen as a second option=1 series loss. Kobe with shaq and gasol/bynum/odom as second option has lost by double digits 4 times. Btw shaq played better than kobe in that detroit series .

next.

[AlphaWolf24]

Most of them at smallest were 6'4. Stop exaggerating. Starks is the only 6'2 player you have there.

But like I said ... why do Kobe stans refer to height as being the key to defense? I mean sure it is if you're a jump shooter. Why? Because they can contest your jumper with more regularity.

You do realize one of the best man to man defensive guards in the league today is a 6'3 white guy, right?

MJ was an attacker, settling for jumpers second. Plenty of athletic 6'7-ish defenders had their chance with Jordan and failed.

The reason they put people on him who were smaller was try to negate MJ's extreme quickness.

Clearly you don't understand this though, so it's no use even talking about it with you.


nope.....I played against Gary Payton at Skyline High school all the time he's 6'2" maybe 6'3" on a good day....

Glen Rivers is listed at 6'4"???..

I'm not trying to knock MJ....he dominated..plain and simple.....but stans saying he would dominate todays players more so then in his era are just basketball illiterate...

[Samurai Swoosh]

Notsureifserious. :wtf:
Fatal9 is a Kobe fan from Canada, too. Maybe I was making one too many assumptions. But you know damn well we used to talk to KB42PAH, and the kid is a nut ball.

[Calabis]

If PHX only had a tough 6'2" SG like Jeff Hornacek , Craig Ehlo , John Starks or Dan Marljle??......darn Raja and Marion....:lol

This moron is still at it .....again, dumbass still doesn't understand that ron Harper 6'6 and Larry Nance 6'9 were tasked with Jordan too

Jordan's era 6 DPOY on the perimeter with two of those guys winning it twice

Kobe's era 1?

Ron Artest....Jordan at 39 lit up this same one for 19 straight points and finished with 29 points overrall

Bowen: Jordan is the toughest player he had to defend(yes supposedly Kobe's best defender who he faced from 30-37 years of age), let's not forget he and Raja Bell were undrafted, yup just like Starks, the guy Kobehomers make fun of

Eddie Jones/Kobe combo Jordan avg 30+ at age 34-35

Posey 35 points

Garnett 35 points(26 first half points)

Ruben Patterson 25 points

Jefferson/Kidd(age 40) 43 points

Marion 41 points

Pierce 32 points and 25 points

Ray Allen 44 points

Bryant/Fox 25 points in 30 minutes

Kobe Bryant fans bringing up height, yet have no explanation for Kobe and his wows against Eric Snow or the old man Jason Kidd

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7ELiVlyQaR8/TfXI66GwetI/AAAAAAAAAic/03h8EqgISts/s1600/nba_g_payton_jordan_400.jpg

wow what an advantage Jordan has over Payton

http://nikoclemmons.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/dwade-and-kobe.jpg

Kobe being defended by 6'4 guys WTF??

two great defenders Payton and Wade....only difference is one has the hardware and a nickname because his defense was that damn good...guess which one?

so let's quit acting like Kobe is guaded by all these 6'7 uber athletes

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/283183-2/Kobe+Bryant+sticks+out+his+tongue+and+drives+past+ Monta+Ellis.JPG

[ImmortalD24]

Fatal9 is a Kobe fan from Canada, too. Maybe I was making one too many assumptions. But you know damn well we used to talk to KB42PAH, and the kid is a nut ball.
Yeah I've read that Fatal9 lives in the north york area of Toronto.. but I don't know him. He's more into Bird than Kobe. I'm not much of a Larry Bird (or Pippen) fan.


KB42PAH aka ko8e is a good friend of mine.. I talk to him on aim. Never met him IRL though.

[AlphaWolf24]

Oh man so stupid. Shaq as a second option> pippen as a second option . Jordan with good pippen as a second option=1 series loss. Kobe with shaq and gasol/bynum/odom as second option has lost by double digits 4 times. Btw shaq played better than kobe in that detroit series .

next.


what?...

"good Pippen"...is that the same as a "motivated Shaq"..or "young Jordan" with "not so good Pippen".....is on another level.....much like "old Jordan"...with "good stackhouse"

......so "Good Pippen" and "Motivated Shaq"...broken down using advanced math = Kobe with greater winning %..

good Pippen/ good Rodman/ good Harper/ good kukoc>Odumb/hurt Bynum/gasoft...


hope I broke it down barneystyle for y'a

[sekachu]

lol @ MJ stans trying to pretend like Kobe don't have a more fluid shooting stroke.

I never seen MJ make that many jumpers in a game ever, even in his HIGHLIGHTS MJ ain't gonna have that many jumpers.

This is why MJ would struggle in today's zone era.


lol at so called zone defense that can stop MJ, the zone could only be effective against player weren't fast enough like kobe or team that dont rotate much like 08 laker against boston. Look at what happen to wade against zone, he always blows by it before the zone could trap him. Can kobe do that? no, he isn't as fast or explosive like wade does. Saying that MJ would struggle against zone is absurd.

He really loves doing it in the regular season against weak defensive team with so much confident but you can't see it from playoff(except against the sun in 2010, not a good defensive team from my standard though:oldlol: )

2006 and 2007 are the year that allow perimeter to do whatever they want. The softest defensive era. Pathetic:banghead:

[Samurai Swoosh]

nope.....I played against Gary Payton at Skyline High school all the time he's 6'2" maybe 6'3" on a good day....
You do realize Jordan's height was exaggerated too, right? He's like 6'4 and change. That's what 2 inches taller?

All the players I mentioned were as good defensively as anyone today.

And even then I gave you video of a 38 year old MJ toying with an athletic PRIME Shawn Marion, and DOMINATING an athletic / defensive 7'1 freak in Kevin Garnett.

No excuse, Kobe stan? No rebuttal?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Alot of cases the defenders I mentioned were better because they were smarter players.

This current league from the early 2000's on was watered down with straight out of HS kids who while have natural abilities, are some of the dumbest players I've ever seen in my life.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8g7_jlXN4g

What makes Gerald Green a better defender than Joe Dumars?

Simply because he's 6'7? Yet has no defensive fundamentals, intelligence and grit?

Defense is about mental tenacity, intelligence angles, and heart.

Has little to do with height, length, and athleticism. Granted that stuff helps, but it isn't what makes a great defender.

Gerald Green isn't even in the league anymore, but we're supposed to be more impressed and believe you and the Kobe stans when they say today's league has superior players?

Basketball isn't just about athleticism. And even then, LMAO @ people acting like there is a world of difference of athleticism from now, from the mid 80's to late 90's.

:oldlol:

By the way, the league average height has actually gotten smaller over the course of time.

Just an FYI for you height nuts, who think thats what makes a defender.

I'm not even going into the physicality of the league, because then today's game looks even softer and worse off in comparison. Flops here, flops there.

It's embarassing as a basketball fan.

P.S. taste of your own medicine ... does JKobe being guarded by Speedy Claxton aka 5'11 PG make this any less impressive?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlHocT3PTYA

Kobe stans are certifiably retarded.

[Bring-Your-Js]

so Shaq played on over 6 50+ win teams capable of winning a Title without Kobe......guess how many times he got Raped in the playoff's???

Out of shape Shaq = Stacked?..ok so again...read above.




next

Shaq put up 27/11 on 63% in that Finals. :oldlol:

Bryant = 22 ppg on 38%.

[AlphaWolf24]

This moron is still at it .....again, dumbass still doesn't understand that ron Harper 6'6 and Larry Nance 6'9 were tasked with Jordan too

Jordan's era 6 DPOY on the perimeter with two of those guys winning it twice

Kobe's era 1?

Ron Artest....Jordan at 39 lit up this same one for 19 straight points and finished with 29 points overrall

Bowen: Jordan is the toughest player he had to defend(yes supposedly Kobe's best defender who he faced from 30-37 years of age), let's not forget he and Raja Bell were undrafted, yup just like Starks, the guy Kobehomers make fun of

Eddie Jones/Kobe combo Jordan avg 30+ at age 34-35

Posey 35 points

Garnett 35 points(26 first half points)

Ruben Patterson 25 points

Jefferson/Kidd(age 40) 43 points

Marion 41 points

Pierce 32 points and 25 points

Ray Allen 44 points

Bryant/Fox 25 points in 30 minutes

Kobe Bryant fans bringing up height, yet have no explanation for Kobe and his wows against Eric Snow or the old man Jason Kidd

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/-7ELiVlyQaR8/TfXI66GwetI/AAAAAAAAAic/03h8EqgISts/s1600/nba_g_payton_jordan_400.jpg

wow what an advantage Jordan has over Payton

http://nikoclemmons.files.wordpress.com/2010/10/dwade-and-kobe.jpg

Kobe being defended by 6'4 guys WTF??

two great defenders Payton and Wade....only difference is one has the hardware and a nickname because his defense was that damn good...guess which one?

so let's quit acting like Kobe is guaded by all these 6'7 uber athletes

http://lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/283183-2/Kobe+Bryant+sticks+out+his+tongue+and+drives+past+ Monta+Ellis.JPG


http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2007/0219/pg2_w_gp_wade_275.jpg
stan..U mad?

[ImmortalD24]

Wade is a bad example. Not only is Wade taller than Payton (by an inch), but when you factor in wingspan.. it isn't even close.

[andgar923]

Shaq put up 27/11 on 63% in that Finals. :oldlol:

Bryant = 22 ppg on 38%.

That's what a superior more aesthetically pleasing long range jump shot is tho. But then again, it was all Shaq's fault.

Oh no, wait.... it was all Payton's fault.

Oh no, it was because Malone wasn't playing.

Or one of the other excuses that they always use.

[andgar923]

Wade is a bad example. Not only is Wade taller than Payton (by an inch), but when you factor in wingspan.. it isn't even close.

But yet, Payton is the superior defender no?

Either way, it isn't a good look for Kobe fans.

And again.... how come nobody addresses the FACT that MJ torched all of the top defenders of this era, and they've gone on record as saying MJ was the hardest to guard, even tho he was years past his prime?

Naw.... go ahead and ignore that.

[BEAST Griffin]

Shaq put up 27/11 on 63% in that Finals. :oldlol:

Bryant = 22 ppg on 38%.

:roll:

[Scholar]

Idk how this shit got to 10 pages already, but I must say that game was fun to watch, except when it turned out the Lakers lost anyway.
:banghead:
I miss the younger Kobe's game. He was incredible to watch.

[Samurai Swoosh]

You do realize Jordan's height was exaggerated too, right? He's like 6'4 and change. That's what 2 inches taller?

All the players I mentioned were as good defensively as anyone today.

And even then I gave you video of a 38 year old MJ toying with an athletic PRIME Shawn Marion, and DOMINATING an athletic / defensive 7'1 freak in Kevin Garnett.

No excuse, Kobe stan? No rebuttal?

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Alot of cases the defenders I mentioned were better because they were smarter players.

This current league from the early 2000's on was watered down with straight out of HS kids who while have natural abilities, are some of the dumbest players I've ever seen in my life. It comes from no college experience, learning the nuances of the game (offensively, and defensively) ...

Limited fundamentals. That's why they softened the rules. The early 2000's people couldn't even hit open jump shots. Team USA was getting bronze or 6th place medals in international competition against teams who had more fundamentals.

LMAO @ players today being better "basketball players"

:facepalm

Sure some of them on average might be more athletic (MJ inspired a generation of players to play like himself) ...

But as players with skills? Sorely lacking. Just look at LeBron for example.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o8g7_jlXN4g

What makes Gerald Green a better defender than Joe Dumars?

Simply because he's 6'7? Yet has no defensive fundamentals, intelligence and grit?

Defense is about mental tenacity, intelligence, angles, and heart.

Has little to do with height, length, and athleticism. Granted that stuff helps, but it isn't what makes a great defender.

Gerald Green isn't even in the league anymore, but we're supposed to be more impressed and believe you and the Kobe stans when they say today's league has superior players?

Basketball isn't just about athleticism. And even then, LMAO @ people acting like there is a world of difference of athleticism from now, from the mid 80's to late 90's.

:oldlol:

By the way, the league average height has actually gotten smaller over the course of time.

Just an FYI for you height nuts, who think thats what makes a defender.

I'm not even going into the physicality of the league, because then today's game looks even softer and worse off in comparison. Flops here, flops there.

It's embarassing as a basketball fan.

P.S. taste of your own medicine ... does Kobe being guarded by Speedy Claxton aka 5'11 PG make this any less impressive?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YlHocT3PTYA

Kobe stans are certifiably retarded.
I'm going to let this post marinate for a little while longer.

See if there is any kind of intelligent response.

[AlphaWolf24]

That's what a superior more aesthetically pleasing long range jump shot is tho. But then again, it was all Shaq's fault.

Oh no, wait.... it was all Payton's fault.

Oh no, it was because Malone wasn't playing.

Or one of the other excuses that they always use.

meh..he was replaced with soft Euro who never won 1 playoff game and the Lakers still almost got another 3 peat...

so Kobe can keep nearly the same pace with Gasoft as he did with Shaq....

Jordan on the other hand never even had a .500 season nor made the alldefensive team without Pippen next to him..

1 - 10 in the playoff's without Pippen to go along with leading his team to 5 Losing seasons....

let the excuses flow like water from the mission peak...

next

[Calabis]

lol @ MJ stans trying to pretend like Kobe don't have a more fluid shooting stroke.

I never seen MJ make that many jumpers in a game ever, even in his HIGHLIGHTS MJ ain't gonna have that many jumpers.

This is why MJ would struggle in today's zone era.

LMAO....I killed this shit in a old thread, so again

Stu Jackson: It doesn't. With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. This has provided more time for shooters to ready themselves for quality shots. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim. Additionally, teams now realize the 3-point shot is a great competitive equalizer, so they are taking more; they have improved their skill level on threes and are making them at a higher rate.

You also remember when NBA rules expert Rod Thorn said this after the handchecking rule was changed and the defensive 3 second rule:"It's more difficult now to guard the quick wing player who can handle the ball," Thorn said of the change. "I think it helps skilled players over someone who just has strength or toughness. What the NBA is trying to do is promote unimpeded movement for dribblers or cutters."



Article from 2001: In addition, the typical player nowadays generally dedicates more time to weight training, perhaps to the detriment of additional shooting drills. And never since the NBA added its 3-point line back in 1979-'80 have treys been hoisted more frequently by more pedestrian shooters, driving down shooting accuracy league-wide. Perhaps the best evidence of this is that Boston's Antoine Walker -- a post-up forward to be sure -- has attempted more three-pointers this season (196) than all but two players in the entire league.

Also factoring into the decline in offensive output is the increase in college underclassmen -- many of whom arrive at the "Next Level" ill-prepared with solid basketball foundations. In the five NBA Drafts between 1986 and 1990, 58 underclassmen declared themselves eligible. In the NBA Drafts from 1996 to 2000, the number rose to 153. Perhaps not coincidentally, three of the four-worst league-wide shooting seasons in history occurred in this span.

From a Laker Blog: The NBA will never admit to it publically, but zone defense was primarily legalized to contain Shaquille O'neal. Shaquille simply could not be guarded by one man, it was just not possible. It's a lopsided mismatch regardless of whoever is guarding him. Add Kobe Bryant to that team and it is plain to see that the league would be dominated for a long time to come. Therefor, in order to even out the playing field, the league legalized zone defense.

Yet since 2004 Shaq shot 60+ percent 5 times, 59 2 times, prior to this his high was .599 one time(Zone didn't stop Shaq's efficiency)


Zone Myth...as of Dec 22, 2005

Here's a look at the NBA's top five in scoring points in the paint (through Tuesday):

1. Tony Parker, Spurs 328
2. Tim Duncan, Spurs 322
3. Dwyane Wade, Heat 316
4. LeBron James, Cavs 304
5. Allen Iverson, Sixers 298

Source: Elias Sports Bureau

Zone Defense Makes it harder to get into the mid to close range area for perimeter stars:


In 2010

Kobe scored:

460 pts on layups/dunks
572 pts inside 10 ft
862 pts inside of 15 ft
439 pts from the FT line.

Total: 669 pts outside 15+ ft < 1,301 pts INSIDE 15 ft or the FT line.

That means 66% (2/3 of his pts) came inside of 15 ft & the FT line LOL!!

Carmelo (the alleged pure jump shooter) scored:

652 pts on dunks/layups
736 pts inside 10 ft
864 pts inside 15 ft
508 pts from the FT line
571 pts outside 15 f

Total: 1,372 of his total pts came inside 15 ft or the FT line (71% of his total pts)

D-Wade (who doesn't even have MJ's post game or jumper) scored:

762 pts on dunks/layups
894 pts inside 10 ft
996 pts inside 15 ft
534 pts from the FT line
515 pts from outside 15 ft

Total: 1,530 of his total pts came inside 15 ft or from the FT line (75% of his total pts)


Tyriq Evans (a rookie in 2010) scored 714 pts on layups/dunks (84% of his total pts)

Durant scored 602 pts on layups/dunks (70% of his total pts)

LBJ scored 754 pts on layups/dunks (68% of his total pts)

Brandon Roy scored 346 pts on layups/dunks (63% of his total pts)

Joe Johnson scored 324 pts on layups/dunks (42% of his total pts)

The list of wing players scoring big time pts INSIDE 10-15 ft in tody's game is endless...

Darren Williams scored:

392 pts on layups/dunks
486 pts inside 10 ft
528 inside 15 ft
335 pts from the FT line
556 pts from outside 15 ft

Total: 863 of his total pts came INSIDE 15 ft or the FT line (61% of his total pts)

Dirk Nowitzki (not a great athlete & terrible foot speed) scored:

328 pts on layups/dunks
416 pts inside 10 ft
718 pts inside 15 ft
536 pts from the FT line
773 pts outside 15 ft

Total: 1,254 of his total pts came INSIDE 15 ft or the FT line (62% of his toal pts)

Yet Jordan better at attacking the rim then any of these guys and the zone would cause him to struggle???...These guys have no problems getting into the lane

[andgar923]

meh..he was replaced with soft Euro who never won 1 playoff game and the Lakers still almost got another 3 peat...

so Kobe can keep nearly the same pace with Gasoft as he did with Shaq....

Jordan on the other hand never even had a .500 season nor made the alldefensive team without Pippen next to him..

1 - 10 in the playoff's without Pippen to go along with leading his team to 5 Losing seasons....

next

Keep ducking.

[Calabis]

http://a.espncdn.com/photo/2007/0219/pg2_w_gp_wade_275.jpg
stan..U mad?

Uhh no, because Jordan is about 6'4 in the real world....looks about the same difference there as in the pic I posted...u mad??? Because u ignored the other facts as usual

[Calabis]

I'm going to let this post marinate for a little while longer.

See if there is any kind of intelligent response.

Pointless, just because Joe D, Moncrief and Payton were not 6'7 they could not play defense.....guys like Ray Allen, Courtney Lee are much better defenders because they are 6'5

[ImmortalD24]

But yet, Payton is the superior defender no?hmm.. lets see.. Wade is a better post defender, thats for sure.


Wade is the better help defender.. given his shot blocking ability.


I'll give Payton the passing lanes defense.. but Wade isn't too shabby in that department.


Now if we factor in the no handchecking disadvantage you guys keep rambling about.. (which is bullcrap) I'm going to wrongfully assume that Payton will have trouble adjusting with these "softer" perimeter rules on defense (like you guys do vise versa).. and would foul out every game with that aggressive defensive style.

All in all.. Wade > or = Payton. And with that height and length, I'd take him to guard elite SG's over Payton.

[asdf1990]

alphawolf getting raped

[AlphaWolf24]

I'm going to let this post marinate for a little while longer.

See if there is any kind of intelligent response.

you blame Team USA losing because Fundamentals???....:lol

and we are supposed to take that serious?

Basketball popularity exploded in the 80's....worldwide.

by the time the 2000's rolled around we had a whole generation of international players who grew up playing competitive basketball....

the talent pool is much larger now then it's ever been....





but in the late 80's and early 90's the NBA expanded 6 + teams Right?....but the talent pool was not as great as it is now....


So Bob Pettit , Wilt Chamberlain , Bob Cousy , Sam Jones and Russell would destroy the 2006 Argentina team because of Fundamentals right?


Baseball is America's pastime.....did we lose to Japan because of Fundamental's?...or the fact that the talent pool is so great worldwide and all countries play baseball and produce great players.


Players today are Bigger , stronger and faster...the talent pool is far bigger.....would MJ dominate like he did in the 80's and 90's?....I think so.

would he be even better against bigger , faster and greater players from all over the world?.....No.....Jordan Jockers are basketball illiterates.....make that sports illiterates.

[Calabis]

Wade is a bad example. Not only is Wade taller than Payton (by an inch), but when you factor in wingspan.. it isn't even close.

Wait why add factors....Kobe is taller right...that's all that matters right? Hell why try to add positioning, smarts, teammates and other factors like arm length....that doesn't matter Wade is shorter than a 6'6 guy guarding Kobe, therefore Kobe has a easier time with Wade

[AlphaWolf24]

LMAO....I killed this shit in a old thread, so again

Stu Jackson: It doesn't. With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. This has provided more time for shooters to ready themselves for quality shots. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim. Additionally, teams now realize the 3-point shot is a great competitive equalizer, so they are taking more; they have improved their skill level on threes and are making them at a higher rate.

You also remember when NBA rules expert Rod Thorn said this after the handchecking rule was changed and the defensive 3 second rule:"It's more difficult now to guard the quick wing player who can handle the ball," Thorn said of the change. "I think it helps skilled players over someone who just has strength or toughness. What the NBA is trying to do is promote unimpeded movement for dribblers or cutters."



Article from 2001: In addition, the typical player nowadays generally dedicates more time to weight training, perhaps to the detriment of additional shooting drills. And never since the NBA added its 3-point line back in 1979-'80 have treys been hoisted more frequently by more pedestrian shooters, driving down shooting accuracy league-wide. Perhaps the best evidence of this is that Boston's Antoine Walker -- a post-up forward to be sure -- has attempted more three-pointers this season (196) than all but two players in the entire league.

Also factoring into the decline in offensive output is the increase in college underclassmen -- many of whom arrive at the "Next Level" ill-prepared with solid basketball foundations. In the five NBA Drafts between 1986 and 1990, 58 underclassmen declared themselves eligible. In the NBA Drafts from 1996 to 2000, the number rose to 153. Perhaps not coincidentally, three of the four-worst league-wide shooting seasons in history occurred in this span.

From a Laker Blog: The NBA will never admit to it publically, but zone defense was primarily legalized to contain Shaquille O'neal. Shaquille simply could not be guarded by one man, it was just not possible. It's a lopsided mismatch regardless of whoever is guarding him. Add Kobe Bryant to that team and it is plain to see that the league would be dominated for a long time to come. Therefor, in order to even out the playing field, the league legalized zone defense.

Yet since 2004 Shaq shot 60+ percent 5 times, 59 2 times, prior to this his high was .599 one time(Zone didn't stop Shaq's efficiency)


Zone Myth...as of Dec 22, 2005

Here's a look at the NBA's top five in scoring points in the paint (through Tuesday):

1. Tony Parker, Spurs 328
2. Tim Duncan, Spurs 322
3. Dwyane Wade, Heat 316
4. LeBron James, Cavs 304
5. Allen Iverson, Sixers 298

Source: Elias Sports Bureau

Zone Defense Makes it harder to get into the mid to close range area for perimeter stars:


In 2010

Kobe scored:

460 pts on layups/dunks
572 pts inside 10 ft
862 pts inside of 15 ft
439 pts from the FT line.

Total: 669 pts outside 15+ ft < 1,301 pts INSIDE 15 ft or the FT line.

That means 66% (2/3 of his pts) came inside of 15 ft & the FT line LOL!!

Carmelo (the alleged pure jump shooter) scored:

652 pts on dunks/layups
736 pts inside 10 ft
864 pts inside 15 ft
508 pts from the FT line
571 pts outside 15 f

Total: 1,372 of his total pts came inside 15 ft or the FT line (71% of his total pts)

D-Wade (who doesn't even have MJ's post game or jumper) scored:

762 pts on dunks/layups
894 pts inside 10 ft
996 pts inside 15 ft
534 pts from the FT line
515 pts from outside 15 ft

Total: 1,530 of his total pts came inside 15 ft or from the FT line (75% of his total pts)


Tyriq Evans (a rookie in 2010) scored 714 pts on layups/dunks (84% of his total pts)

Durant scored 602 pts on layups/dunks (70% of his total pts)

LBJ scored 754 pts on layups/dunks (68% of his total pts)

Brandon Roy scored 346 pts on layups/dunks (63% of his total pts)

Joe Johnson scored 324 pts on layups/dunks (42% of his total pts)

The list of wing players scoring big time pts INSIDE 10-15 ft in tody's game is endless...

Darren Williams scored:

392 pts on layups/dunks
486 pts inside 10 ft
528 inside 15 ft
335 pts from the FT line
556 pts from outside 15 ft

Total: 863 of his total pts came INSIDE 15 ft or the FT line (61% of his total pts)

Dirk Nowitzki (not a great athlete & terrible foot speed) scored:

328 pts on layups/dunks
416 pts inside 10 ft
718 pts inside 15 ft
536 pts from the FT line
773 pts outside 15 ft

Total: 1,254 of his total pts came INSIDE 15 ft or the FT line (62% of his toal pts)

Yet Jordan better at attacking the rim then any of these guys and the zone would cause him to struggle???...These guys have no problems getting into the lane


ok...


Shooting a lower FG% doesn't mean you're an inferior scorer. Guys like Lebron & Wade play close to the basket. Why do you think Tony Parker is one of only 5 players in the last 11 years to score 20+ PPG and shoot 50%? It's because he's in the paint alot.

The main issue for MJ in today's era, is that he would likely take more 3PA. It's actually the fact that he IS a much more diverse scorer, that would likely lower his FG%. His TS% would still be very efficient, but I don't think he would duplicate shooting 50% 6-times in today's era, because the game is played somewhat differently.

What current data shows that it's easier for periemter players to score in the modern era?

FG% was significantly higher in MJ's era. Drtg(points per possession), was 2.1+ in MJ's era.


Like I showed you earlier....20- 25PPG on 50% or higher

This feat was accomplished 56 times in MJ's era, vs 5 times in the modern era. That's pretty striking. I'm fairly certain that today's stars could duplicate the feats of those players if they played in that time.


___________________________________________

LOL @ the 80's

George Gervin

1979-80: 33.1 PTS (.528 FG%)
1981-82: 32.3 PTS (.500 FG%)

Adrian Dantley

1980-81: 30.7 PTS (.559 FG%)
1981-82: 30.3 PTS (.570 FG%)
1982-83: 30.7 PTS (.580 FG%)
1983-84: 30.6 PTS (.558 FG%)

Mark Aguire

1983-84: 29.5 PTS (.524 FG%)

Kiki Vandeseghe

1983-84: 29.4 PTS (.558 FG%)

Mark Aguire

1983-84: 29.5 PTS (.524 FG%)

Bernard King

1984-85: 32.9 PTS (.530 FG%)

Alex English

1985-86: 29.8 PTS (.504 FG%)
1986-87: 28.6 PTS (.503 FG%)

Larry Bird

1987-88: 29.9 PTS (.527 FG%)

Wade or Parker would be at 70% FG in the 80's style ..lol

This is the list of guards/small forwards who shot over 50% and had 20+ PPG during MJ's era(1985-1998).

Michael Jordan - 6 times
Chris Mullen - 6 times
Adrian Dantley - 4 times
Kiki Vandewedge - 4 times
Reggie Miller - 3 times
James Worthy - 3 times
Alex English - 3 times
Dale Ellis - 3 times
Magic Johnson - 2 times
Penny Hardaway - 2 times
Kevin Johnson - 2 times
Clyde Drexler - 2 times
Cedric Ceballos - 2 times
Mark Aguirre - 2 times
Gary Payton - once
Byron Scott - once
Rolando Blackman - once
Walter Davis - once
Jeff Hornacek - once
Otis Birdsong - once
Jeff Malone - once
George Gervin - once
Drazen Petrovic - once
Reggie Lewis - once
Derek Smith - once
Scottie Pippen - once



And here is the list of guards/small forwards who shot over 50% and had 20+ PPG during the post-Lockout era(2000-2010).

Lebron James - once
Chris Paul - once
Tony Parker - once
Monta Ellis - once
Shawn Marion - once


So in MJ's era it was done 56 times by 26 different players.

In the last 11 years, it has been done only 5 times by 5 different players.





we gonna go off topic and do the whole Kobe vs MJ thing then just rehash the Kobe vs MJ thread.....

copy and paste FTW:facepalm

[Calabis]

ok...


Shooting a lower FG% doesn't mean you're an inferior scorer. Guys like Lebron & Wade play close to the basket. Why do you think Tony Parker is one of only 5 players in the last 11 years to score 20+ PPG and shoot 50%? It's because he's in the paint alot.

The main issue for MJ in today's era, is that he would likely take more 3PA. It's actually the fact that he IS a much more diverse scorer, that would likely lower his FG%. His TS% would still be very efficient, but I don't think he would duplicate shooting 50% 6-times in today's era, because the game is played somewhat differently.

What current data shows that it's easier for periemter players to score in the modern era?

FG% was significantly higher in MJ's era. Drtg(points per possession), was 2.1+ in MJ's era.


Like I showed you earlier....20- 25PPG on 50% or higher

This feat was accomplished 56 times in MJ's era, vs 5 times in the modern era. That's pretty striking. I'm fairly certain that today's stars could duplicate the feats of those players if they played in that time.


___________________________________________

LOL @ the 80's

George Gervin

1979-80: 33.1 PTS (.528 FG%)
1981-82: 32.3 PTS (.500 FG%)

Adrian Dantley

1980-81: 30.7 PTS (.559 FG%)
1981-82: 30.3 PTS (.570 FG%)
1982-83: 30.7 PTS (.580 FG%)
1983-84: 30.6 PTS (.558 FG%)

Mark Aguire

1983-84: 29.5 PTS (.524 FG%)

Kiki Vandeseghe

1983-84: 29.4 PTS (.558 FG%)

Mark Aguire

1983-84: 29.5 PTS (.524 FG%)

Bernard King

1984-85: 32.9 PTS (.530 FG%)

Alex English

1985-86: 29.8 PTS (.504 FG%)
1986-87: 28.6 PTS (.503 FG%)

Larry Bird

1987-88: 29.9 PTS (.527 FG%)

Wade or Parker would be at 70% FG in the 80's style ..lol





we gonna go off topic and do the whole Kobe vs MJ thing then just rehash the Kobe vs MJ thread.....

copy and paste FTW:facepalm

Off topic??? LMAO!!! maybe look who I quoted.....had to crush the zone myth.....:facepalm

Here are the reasons for the drop, not all this mythical garbage about great defenses from 98-04 and these so called great zones of today

Despite the dip in 3-point percentage, overall scoring is up this season. The league is scoring more than 200 points per game (200.01 to be precise) for the first time since the 1994-95 season. But that's more about pace than offensive efficiency. At 95.2 possessions per team per 48 minutes, this is the fastest pace the league has played at in the last 10 years. Efficiency is actually down from last season as the league is scoring 104.2 points per 100 possessions, down from 105.4 in 2008-09.

Along with the dip in 3-point percentage, the mid-range game continues to fade. The percentage of mid-range points (points not scored at the line, in the paint or beyond the arc) is down to just 20.6 percent. Points in the paint are higher than they've been since the league started tracking them in the 2000-01 season. Those baskets account for 41.7 percent of all points this season, up from 40.1 percent a year ago.(So much for this zone myth of keeping perimeter guys out of the lanes)

Scoring from the mid-range area isn't a trend that good offensive teams have. Chicago scores 26.9 percent of its points from mid-range and ranks 27th offensively. Detroit scores 26.6 percent of its points from mid-range and ranks 26th offensively. Dallas (25.2 percent, 10th) and Portland (24.9 percent, seventh) go against the grain, thanks to the shooting of Dirk Nowitzki and LaMarcus Aldridge.



http://www.82games.com/scorers.htm

Article from 2004: We'll begin with playing slower, which teams have become a little too good at during the David Stern era. In '84-85, the average NBA team used 104.8 possessions in a 48-minute game. By last year, the league had come to a screeching halt, using just 92.0 possessions per game. NBA teams have nearly 13 chances a game fewer than they did two decades ago. In other words, the biggest reason for the 17-point decrease in scoring isn't due to bad shooting, bad passing, changes in officiating or even the oft-cited increase in high-school aged kids entering the league. The main reason that offense has declined so much is because teams have stopped running. The change in pace alone accounts for 76.2 percent of the decline in scoring since '84-85. If the league reverted to the same pace it played at two decades ago, teams would average about 106.7 points a game.

While a slower pace is the main culprit in lower scores, that doesn't let offenses off the hook. Regardless of the speed with which the game is played, teams have become less efficient on the offensive end. In fact, even after we adjust for the fewer number of possessions teams use, there's still a 4.1 points-per-game difference that results from teams getting less out of each trip down the floor. This is noteworthy since the increased use of the 3-pointer should have produced the opposite effect.

1984-85 2003-04 Change
Points per game 110.8 93.4 -17.4
Possessions/game 104.8 92.0 -12.8
Points/possession 1.05 1.01 -.04
Field-goal pct. 49.1 43.9 -5.2
Free-throw pct. 76.4 75.2 -1.2
3-point pct. 28.1 34.7 +6.6
Off. Rebound pct. 32.9 28.7 -4.2
FTA/FGA .330 .303 -.207
Turnovers/possession .169 .154 -.015


Offenses are actually quite a bit better than those of the past when it comes to holding onto the ball. Teams turned the ball over on 16.9 percent of their possessions two decades ago, but did so just 15.4 percent of the time in '03-04. Since teams score about 1.2 points on each possession without a turnover, the difference adds about 1.9 points per game to offenses. The cause of the turnover decline is no mystery -- with teams running less, they have fewer chances for open-court miscues.

But those gains are exactly offset by a decline in offensive rebounding. In '84-85, offenses grabbed the board on 32.9 percent of missed shots, but by '03-04 that had declined to 28.7 percent. That difference has cost offenses 2.0 points per game, and it probably results from 3-point shooters being spaced too far away from the basket to have a prayer of getting an offensive board.

However, that still leaves the lion's share of the responsibility in decreased offensive efficiency at the doorstep of a common complaint: Declining shooting. Since '84-85, field-goal percentages have sunk roughly in proportion to Billy Squier's albums sales, from 49.1 percent to 43.9 percent last season. Sharp minds in the audience will quickly note that the 3-pointer is a much more prevalent part of modern offenses (teams try more than five times as many as they did two decades ago), so we should expect field-goal percentages to be lower in return for the greater payoff. Yet even allowing for the rise of the 3-pointer, shooting is still in the dumpster. Teams averaged 0.99 points for each field-goal attempt in 1984-85, but just 0.94 last season. That five-hundreths of a percentage point difference is enough to subtract 2.9 points a game from offenses.

That goes to underscore that the 3-pointer has, on balance, not had much of an effect. On the one hand, players shoot the long bomb much more accurately than twenty years ago -- improving from 28.1 percent to 34.7 percent -- which has added 1.9 points per game to scoring.

But there's a hidden cost to all of those 3s. Because they're bombing away instead of going to the rim, teams are getting to the line much less often. Teams took 0.33 free-throws per field-goal attempt back then, but only 0.30 last season, a change that cost teams about 1.7 points a game -- giving back nearly all of the difference from the increase in 3-point accuracy.

Our study tells us two things about the state of scoring. First, pace is a much bigger factor than the decline in offensive efficiency. Second, the main cause of the dip in efficiency is the sharp drop in 2-point field-goal percentage.

[AlphaWolf24]

Off topic??? LMAO!!! maybe look who I quoted.....had to crush the zone myth.....:facepalm

Here are the reasons for the drop, not all this mythical garbage about great defenses from 98-04 and these so called great zones of today

Despite the dip in 3-point percentage, overall scoring is up this season. The league is scoring more than 200 points per game (200.01 to be precise) for the first time since the 1994-95 season. But that's more about pace than offensive efficiency. At 95.2 possessions per team per 48 minutes, this is the fastest pace the league has played at in the last 10 years. Efficiency is actually down from last season as the league is scoring 104.2 points per 100 possessions, down from 105.4 in 2008-09.

Along with the dip in 3-point percentage, the mid-range game continues to fade. The percentage of mid-range points (points not scored at the line, in the paint or beyond the arc) is down to just 20.6 percent. Points in the paint are higher than they've been since the league started tracking them in the 2000-01 season. Those baskets account for 41.7 percent of all points this season, up from 40.1 percent a year ago.(So much for this zone myth of keeping perimeter guys out of the lanes)

Scoring from the mid-range area isn't a trend that good offensive teams have. Chicago scores 26.9 percent of its points from mid-range and ranks 27th offensively. Detroit scores 26.6 percent of its points from mid-range and ranks 26th offensively. Dallas (25.2 percent, 10th) and Portland (24.9 percent, seventh) go against the grain, thanks to the shooting of Dirk Nowitzki and LaMarcus Aldridge.



http://www.82games.com/scorers.htm

Article from 2004: We'll begin with playing slower, which teams have become a little too good at during the David Stern era. In '84-85, the average NBA team used 104.8 possessions in a 48-minute game. By last year, the league had come to a screeching halt, using just 92.0 possessions per game. NBA teams have nearly 13 chances a game fewer than they did two decades ago. In other words, the biggest reason for the 17-point decrease in scoring isn't due to bad shooting, bad passing, changes in officiating or even the oft-cited increase in high-school aged kids entering the league. The main reason that offense has declined so much is because teams have stopped running. The change in pace alone accounts for 76.2 percent of the decline in scoring since '84-85. If the league reverted to the same pace it played at two decades ago, teams would average about 106.7 points a game.

While a slower pace is the main culprit in lower scores, that doesn't let offenses off the hook. Regardless of the speed with which the game is played, teams have become less efficient on the offensive end. In fact, even after we adjust for the fewer number of possessions teams use, there's still a 4.1 points-per-game difference that results from teams getting less out of each trip down the floor. This is noteworthy since the increased use of the 3-pointer should have produced the opposite effect.

1984-85 2003-04 Change
Points per game 110.8 93.4 -17.4
Possessions/game 104.8 92.0 -12.8
Points/possession 1.05 1.01 -.04
Field-goal pct. 49.1 43.9 -5.2
Free-throw pct. 76.4 75.2 -1.2
3-point pct. 28.1 34.7 +6.6
Off. Rebound pct. 32.9 28.7 -4.2
FTA/FGA .330 .303 -.207
Turnovers/possession .169 .154 -.015


Offenses are actually quite a bit better than those of the past when it comes to holding onto the ball. Teams turned the ball over on 16.9 percent of their possessions two decades ago, but did so just 15.4 percent of the time in '03-04. Since teams score about 1.2 points on each possession without a turnover, the difference adds about 1.9 points per game to offenses. The cause of the turnover decline is no mystery -- with teams running less, they have fewer chances for open-court miscues.

But those gains are exactly offset by a decline in offensive rebounding. In '84-85, offenses grabbed the board on 32.9 percent of missed shots, but by '03-04 that had declined to 28.7 percent. That difference has cost offenses 2.0 points per game, and it probably results from 3-point shooters being spaced too far away from the basket to have a prayer of getting an offensive board.

However, that still leaves the lion's share of the responsibility in decreased offensive efficiency at the doorstep of a common complaint: Declining shooting. Since '84-85, field-goal percentages have sunk roughly in proportion to Billy Squier's albums sales, from 49.1 percent to 43.9 percent last season. Sharp minds in the audience will quickly note that the 3-pointer is a much more prevalent part of modern offenses (teams try more than five times as many as they did two decades ago), so we should expect field-goal percentages to be lower in return for the greater payoff. Yet even allowing for the rise of the 3-pointer, shooting is still in the dumpster. Teams averaged 0.99 points for each field-goal attempt in 1984-85, but just 0.94 last season. That five-hundreths of a percentage point difference is enough to subtract 2.9 points a game from offenses.

That goes to underscore that the 3-pointer has, on balance, not had much of an effect. On the one hand, players shoot the long bomb much more accurately than twenty years ago -- improving from 28.1 percent to 34.7 percent -- which has added 1.9 points per game to scoring.

But there's a hidden cost to all of those 3s. Because they're bombing away instead of going to the rim, teams are getting to the line much less often. Teams took 0.33 free-throws per field-goal attempt back then, but only 0.30 last season, a change that cost teams about 1.7 points a game -- giving back nearly all of the difference from the increase in 3-point accuracy.

Our study tells us two things about the state of scoring. First, pace is a much bigger factor than the decline in offensive efficiency. Second, the main cause of the dip in efficiency is the sharp drop in 2-point field-goal percentage.

1) The 60's had a very high pace, yet a low FG%. There is no correlation to pace and FG%.

2) +2.1 Drtg is extremely significant when we're discussing FG% ranges from 45-50%. And the stats from both eras bear this out. The difference between 45% and 50% is 9-20 FG vs 10-20 FG.

3) The 2nd paragraph is referring to the number of times a player avergaed 20+ PPG for a season while shooting 50% or better.

This feat was accomplished 56 times in MJ's era, vs 5 times in the modern era. That's pretty striking. I'm fairly certain that today's stars could duplicate the feats of those players if they played in that time.

[Leviathon1121]

you blame Team USA losing because Fundamentals???....:lol

and we are supposed to take that serious?

Basketball popularity exploded in the 80's....worldwide.

by the time the 2000's rolled around we had a whole generation of international players who grew up playing competitive basketball....

the talent pool is much larger now then it's ever been....





but in the late 80's and early 90's the NBA expanded 6 + teams Right?....but the talent pool was not as great as it is now....


So Bob Pettit , Wilt Chamberlain , Bob Cousy , Sam Jones and Russell would destroy the 2006 Argentina team because of Fundamentals right?


Baseball is America's pastime.....did we lose to Japan because of Fundamental's?...or the fact that the talent pool is so great worldwide and all countries play baseball and produce great players.


Players today are Bigger , stronger and faster...the talent pool is far bigger.....would MJ dominate like he did in the 80's and 90's?....I think so.

would he be even better against bigger , faster and greater players from all over the world?.....No.....Jordan Jockers are basketball illiterates.....make that sports illiterates.

And yet, Kobe got locked down by a 38 year old white point guard.

And then that same 38 year old white point guard, along with a 6 foot white point guard, a German, and a 6-2 shooting guard who can barley dunk just tore through this league. They took out the leagues best front court who have the GOAT Kobe Bryant, then took out the leagues arguably most athletic team in the Heat.

How is this possible? According to you a team like the Mavs, who are probably less athletic the half the teams from the 70's, should not even be in this league, let alone winning titles.

How could this leagues bigger, stronger, and faster players not have stopped these Mavs players?

[Samurai Swoosh]

How could this leagues bigger, stronger, and faster players not have stopped these Mavs players?
Because that is a myth, baked into a lie, wrapped in an enigma, ontop of a riddle, which sits above a conundrum.

:facepalm

[az00m]

Michael jordan shoots mostly jumpers in this game.

Makes the magic look like beetches

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6mjwyLp6OiM

[az00m]

Wade is a bad example. Not only is Wade taller than Payton (by an inch), but when you factor in wingspan.. it isn't even close.
http://www.soundoffcolumn.com/images/_Sports_Payton_Kobe.jpg

he isnt taller than payton...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_26pKBZEHe4Y/TFjQ2DrpQGI/AAAAAAAAAUE/oh1YdaOZa-I/s1600/nba_g_wade_kobe_576.jpg

[Samurai Swoosh]

ImmortalD24 going full retard in this thread.

Sigh ... had so much hope for this young buck.

[ImmortalD24]

http://www.soundoffcolumn.com/images/_Sports_Payton_Kobe.jpg

he isnt taller than payton...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_26pKBZEHe4Y/TFjQ2DrpQGI/AAAAAAAAAUE/oh1YdaOZa-I/s1600/nba_g_wade_kobe_576.jpg
http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/kelly_dwyer/05/01/champs.chumps/t1_payton.wade.jpg

[Samurai Swoosh]

http://i.a.cnn.net/si/2006/writers/kelly_dwyer/05/01/champs.chumps/t1_payton.wade.jpg
Tell me how wingspan is related to good defense?

GP is a vastly superior on ball defender than Wade.

Which takes more discipline, skill, and is more important than help defense, etc.

And really LMAO @ acting like Wade is a very physical player who would excel in the 90's defensive league rules.

GP was mean and tenacious. Wade is a competitor, but he isn't physical by any stretch.

[ThaSwagg3r]

I find it hilarious how some people think they can use random pics to determine one's height. :oldlol:

[ImmortalD24]

I find it hilarious how some people think they can use random pics to determine one's height. :oldlol:
That Wade/ Kobe pic made no sense.. Kobe is 4 inches taller than Wade now? :oldlol:
Tell me how wingspan is related to good defense?

GP is a vastly superior on ball defender than Wade.

Which takes more discipline, skill, and is more important than help defense, etc.

And really LMAO @ acting like Wade is a very physical player who would excel in the 90's defensive league rules.

GP was mean and tenacious. Wade is a competitor, but he isn't physical by any stretch.
You don't know how Wade's defense would transition to the 90's defense style.. Wade is a solid defender in an era where Jordan fans claim you can't touch anyone. In an era where you laugh at a ref.. you get thrown out of games. If you're going to assume Wade isn't going to adjust.. I'm going to assume the same with Payton.


And height/ length isn't a factor when it comes to defense now? You've got to be kidding me.

[rodman91]

Kobe might be considered better than Jordan..only in LA...not sure about Kobe vs Magic though.

[Dragonyeuw]

Starks is the only 6'2 player you have there.




Starks is listed as 6'5....

[Samurai Swoosh]

Starks is listed as 6'5....
But he's not. He's 6'2, he admitted it himself. Jordan himself is really 6'4 and change. He's slightly taller than Wade.

[Samurai Swoosh]

And height/ length isn't a factor when it comes to defense now? You've got to be kidding me.
Only if you know how to use it ...

Thats why Durant is the league's best defender right?

I mean he's a SF who is basically 7 feet tall, with SG skill, quickness, and foot work.

:oldlol:

P.S. Do I need to break out the youtube video of 47 year old Jordan locking up Raymond Felton? Ripping J-Rich? Dropping Gerald Wallace (widely regarded as one of the league's best defenders) off to school. Oh yea, G. Wallace is like 6'7 or 6'8.

[ImmortalD24]

6'1 1/2 seems more like it.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2nbrdpx.jpg

[ThaSwagg3r]

6'1 1/2 seems more like it.

http://i51.tinypic.com/2nbrdpx.jpg
You're an idiot, stop acting like these random ass pictures of people are going to show and prove their real height.


Only if you know how to use it ...

Thats why Durant is the league's best defender right?

I mean he's a SF who is basically 7 feet tall, with SG skill, quickness, and foot work.

:oldlol:

P.S. Do I need to break out the youtube video of 47 year old Jordan locking up Raymond Felton? Ripping J-Rich? Dropping Gerald Wallace (widely regarded as one of the league's best defenders) off to school. Oh yea, G. Wallace is like 6'7 or 6'8.
:applause: Spread the truth brah! :rockon:

[Dragonyeuw]

But he's not. He's 6'2, he admitted it himself. Jordan himself is really 6'4 and change. He's slightly taller than Wade.

Why do they list the players at heights so far off from their actual height? 6'2 is a pretty far cry from 6'5.

How tall is Kobe then....legitimately?

[ImmortalD24]

Dropping Gerald Wallace (widely regarded as one of the league's best defenders) off to school. Oh yea, G. Wallace is like 6'7 or 6'8.
Gerald Wallace.. the best defender? LMAO. The guy is a foul maniac. I've never been impressed with his 1on1 defense.

And 6'8? What a boost!

Him beside 6'4 kobe bryant:

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2488/3996962532_062f925247.jpg

http://farm3.static.flickr.com/2452/3996962530_9d82a7d393.jpg

[ThaSwagg3r]

But he's not. He's 6'2, he admitted it himself. Jordan himself is really 6'4 and change. He's slightly taller than Wade.
Since we love using ****ing random pictures to determine height.

http://stk.dimemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/nike_jordans_111109_017-large-480x320.jpg

Looks like a clean 2 inches to me. Although Wade is actually barely taller than 6'2 from what I've been told by people who have been around the guy. Even LeBron James said he was 6'2. So maybe you are right that Jordan is slightly over 6'4.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Gerald Wallace.. the best defender? LMAO. The guy is a foul maniac. I've never been impressed with his 1on1 defense.
I said one of the league's best defenders.

I said 6'7 / 6'8 in there ...

Kobe is a legit 6'6.

To start his career he was listed as 6'7.

He's slightly longer than MJ.

I used Wallace as an example of your asinine statement that length alone makes a good defender.

What an idiot.

:oldlol:

[Samurai Swoosh]

Looks like a clean 2 inches to me. Although Wade is actually barely taller than 6'2 from what I've been told by people who have been around the guy. Even LeBron James said he was 6'2. So maybe you are right that Jordan is slightly over 6'4.
He's right around 6'2 / 6'3.

He's exactly as tall as Kirk Hinrich.

Rose is listed as 6'3 ... but he's like 6' or 6'1.

The reason why teams usually elected to put smaller defenders on Jordan was because his penetration was unstoppable.

Putting a smaller quicker guy on him, hopefully would negate that strength. Obviously it didn't. Jordan used his other advantages. Height, length, post game. He was playing chess.

With Kobe, you stick a long defender on him and tell him contest the jumper. Do your best to stay in front of him.

[brownmamba00]

Is it really that important that a guy is 1 inch taller or smaller?:rolleyes:

[TylerOO]

Monta Ellis would average 35 ppg in MJs era.

Easily.

[The-Legend-24]

Kobe vs Jordan thread hmm... Inb4 50 pages.
Besides Jordan was guarded by a bunch of midgets, if any stars form today played in the 90's, they would put up 25+ on 50%+

[pete's montreux]

Is it really that important that a guy is 1 inch taller or smaller?:rolleyes:

Some people care so much about that shit. Arguments go on for pages and pages and pages, people citing draft combine results and posting comparative pictures, with shoes and without. Who cares.

[LA_Showtime]

I really wish we could've seen prime Kobe as a number one option with good players.

[Killer_Instinct]

Funny people always say that Mj didn't have "the range" that Kobe did.

Uh... Mj was stronger than Kobe, just because he didn't elect to shoot long range jumpers, it doesn't mean he couldn't be as effective if not more if he decided to chuck them up.

By those standards, I guess Arenas and Crawford are also better than MJ?

And since MJ and I believe even Bron have more half court shots, that makes their range even better no?

http://youtu.be/4A6TZ0AM_pA

Shit... MJ's half court shots look about the same as Kobe's 3pt shots.

MJ GOAT!!!!


You're reaching.

[keepinitreal]

Fatal9 must be really bored. :oldlol:

[Calabis]

I really wish we could've seen prime Kobe as a number one option with good players.

What his prime was only 2 seasons long??? :facepalm Kobefans and their thought process amazes me

[Calabis]

Can someone tell me how someone 6'7 can lead the league in rebounding...because its comical the way these Kobe fans act like two inches in height is some super duper advantage

[Calabis]

But he's not. He's 6'2, he admitted it himself. Jordan himself is really 6'4 and change. He's slightly taller than Wade.

Pat Riley on Jordan's height (http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/post/_/id/6785/john-feinstein-on-pat-riley-and-michael-jordan)

[LA_Showtime]

What his prime was only 2 seasons long??? :facepalm Kobefans and their thought process amazes me

No? I just think it would've been interesting to see Kobe have his own team from the get to. Obviously winning those 3 championships have catapulted Kobe's career into the 8-12 range, but it would've been interesting to say the least to see him lead a team during his prime years.

[Ikill]

Since we love using ****ing random pictures to determine height.

http://stk.dimemag.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/nike_jordans_111109_017-large-480x320.jpg

Looks like a clean 2 inches to me. Although Wade is actually barely taller than 6'2 from what I've been told by people who have been around the guy. Even LeBron James said he was 6'2. So maybe you are right that Jordan is slightly over 6'4.
Wade is 6'4 without shoes and 6'5 with shoes

[ThaSwagg3r]

Wade is 6'4 without shoes and 6'5 with shoes
http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_X9OsjNutwUk/SqgF21_k0mI/AAAAAAAAACc/Js46OMZ6Hcs/s320/CoolStoryBro.jpg

Only problem is that the story is false.

[Heilige]

No? I just think it would've been interesting to see Kobe have his own team from the get to. Obviously winning those 3 championships have catapulted Kobe's career into the 8-12 range, but it would've been interesting to say the least to see him lead a team during his prime years.

What years do you consider to be Kobe's prime years?

[LA_Showtime]

What years do you consider to be Kobe's prime years?

01 to 08 was his peak.

[gengiskhan]

01 to 08 was his peak.

maybe 05-08 was kobe's peak. Its definitely not '01-'08. Kobe was shaq's sidekick back than.

[gengiskhan]

MJ: 6'4" 7/8 bare feet. literally 6'5" measured for the draft at UNC. thats the tallest MJ has ever been.

Kobe: 6'4" 3/4 bare feet. so round up to 6'5". rookie kobe measured 6'7" thanks to almost 1.5 inch afro with shoes on.

wade: no clue. probably 6'2" 1/2 bare feet.

[LA_Showtime]

maybe 05-08 was kobe's peak. Its definitely not '01-'08. Kobe was shaq's sidekick back than.

For the first championship, yes. The last two were more of a 1a/1b depending on the night type of thing, although it was clearly Shaq's team, yes.

01-08 was definitely Kobe's peak. Give Kobe the roster he has now and he's contending for a championship every year. 06-08 Kobe probably would've three-peated rather than lose to Boston.

[Samurai Swoosh]

MJ: 6'4" 7/8 bare feet. literally 6'5" measured for the draft at UNC. thats the tallest MJ has ever been.

Kobe: 6'4" 3/4 bare feet. so round up to 6'5". rookie kobe measured 6'7" thanks to almost 1.5 inch afro with shoes on.

wade: no clue. probably 6'2" 1/2 bare feet.
Kobe is slightly taller than MJ.

Not that it matters, just saying.

[necya]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUf4sCUsDpI

MJ could never pull this off, just didn't have the shooting/range

you are wrong buddy. believe me :pimp:

[AlphaWolf24]

MJ: 6'4" 7/8 bare feet. literally 6'5" measured for the draft at UNC. thats the tallest MJ has ever been.

Kobe: 6'4" 3/4 bare feet. so round up to 6'5". rookie kobe measured 6'7" thanks to almost 1.5 inch afro with shoes on.

wade: no clue. probably 6'2" 1/2 bare feet.

Kobe was bald his rookie year...so :confusedshrug:

[AlphaWolf24]

maybe 05-08 was kobe's peak. Its definitely not '01-'08. Kobe was shaq's sidekick back than.


Kobe has been the NBA's best allaround player since 01'.....:confusedshrug:

this is much bigger then Shaq......

[magnax1]

lol

[Da Heroic One]

Kobe has been the NBA's best allaround player since 01'.....:confusedshrug:

this is much bigger then Shaq......
http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z270/IK2121/TI.gif

[theaussieguy]

Kobe was bald his rookie year...so :confusedshrug:
get outta here? u trollin son?

[AlphaWolf24]

get outta here? u trollin son?

http://images.checkoutmycards.com/zoom/262400eb-2a6b-429a-9fe6-87955b7cac2d.jpg

[AlphaWolf24]

http://i192.photobucket.com/albums/z270/IK2121/TI.gif


http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2173000/AlphaWolf-2173769_596_800.jpg

[Calabis]

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2173000/AlphaWolf-2173769_596_800.jpg

Nice pic, Kobe strapped on Shaq's back

[Samurai Swoosh]

Nice pic, Kobe strapped on Shaq's back
have you seen this nut ball's youtube channel? OMG ...

:oldlol:

[brownmamba00]

Nice pic, Kobe strapped on Shaq's back in '00 and '02 but he did led his team to finals in '01

fixed

and yeah i'm insecure you mad?:banana:

[rodman91]

Kobe has been the NBA's best allaround player since 01'.....:confusedshrug:

this is much bigger then Shaq......

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3937/2001lol.jpg

:roll:

[Samurai Swoosh]

Ivo was such a beast.

[Jacks3]

Kobe in the Lakers 15 post-season wins in 2001:

30.4/7/7/2/1/57% TS

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[dude77]

stupid thread .. showing one game of kobe's to claim how he's better than jordan .. when kobe leads the league in scoring 7 straight years, 10 years in total .. and basically would've been 12 straight titles come back and make a thread .. kobe has 2 scoring titles .. kobe is a poor man's jordan

[AlphaWolf24]

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3937/2001lol.jpg

:roll:


http://www.xtimeline.com/__UserPic_Large/41367/evt091015142100276.jpg


http://philadunkia.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/kobe1-300x3002.jpg


http://assets.espn.go.com/photo/2008/0915/nba_g_iverson_kobe_580.jpg

http://img.discountpostersale.com/posters/PFSAAML22501/1/Kobe-Bryant---2010-NBA-Finals-Game-7---Championship-Trophy-5-Fingers-in-Studio27.jpg

http://goodsportbadsport.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/11/allen-iverson-turkey.jpg

[Jacks3]

. kobe is a poor man's jordan
Jordan is a poor man's Joe Johnson.

:oldlol:

[OldSchoolBBall]

51 points on 68 TS% and almost all jumpers. Not sure if anyone else other than Bird has that sort of ability. lmao at how the Laker bench got outscored 35-6.

You're a dumb fu*k. Jordan's 54 point game vs. NY was all jumpers, as was his 55 point game vs, Washington in the '97 playoffs off the top of my head.

THIS is the most aesthetically pleasing 50 point game of all time (i.e., the most fun to watch):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVcwa99dBB4

Jordan's 56 points vs. Miami, 1992 playoffs.

PS - Kobe shot like sub-30% in the 4th quarters of games that series vs. Phoenix.

[Jacks3]

lol @ loco.

[AlphaWolf24]

Nice pic, Kobe strapped on Shaq's back


who's back????........oh...forgot about him.



replaced by a Euro and still on pace



next

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

http://img89.imageshack.us/img89/3937/2001lol.jpg

:roll:
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :applause:

[Samurai Swoosh]

kobe is a poor man's jordan
Naw, he's a rich man's Allen Iverson.

Wade is a poor man's Jordan.

LeBron is a rich man's Pippen.

[lefthook00]

You're a dumb fu*k. Jordan's 54 point game vs. NY was all jumpers, as was his 55 point game vs, Washington in the '97 playoffs off the top of my head.

THIS is the most aesthetically pleasing 50 point game of all time (i.e., the most fun to watch):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVcwa99dBB4

Jordan's 56 points vs. Miami, 1992 playoffs.

PS - Kobe shot like sub-30% in the 4th quarters of games that series vs. Phoenix.

Kobe's 60 against Memphis is wayyyyy cooler to watch. Better than the game that the OP mentioned too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfcx-0W4abw

[kNIOKAS]

Naw, he's a rich man's Allen Iverson.

Wade is a poor man's Jordan.

LeBron is a rich man's Pippen.
co-sign

[blablabla]

Naw, he's a rich man's Allen Iverson.

Wade is a poor man's Jordan.

LeBron is a rich man's Pippen.
:facepalm

[Samurai Swoosh]

:facepalm
Besides a few slight differences, these comparisons are dead on the money.

Kobe, deeper range than Iverson, slightly more effecient scorer, better on ball defender. Both can play the passing lanes.

Wade, less of a shooter, overall offensive skill set / defender, but his overall game and impact is Jordan lite.

LeBron, is a rich man's Pippen in every category offensively. From shooting, scoring, ball handling, and vastly superior in terms of court vision. He has the same "not going to take over the game at the expense of others" prototypical beta male mentality and skill set. Jack of all trades, master of nothing. Only slightly worse defensively.

[che guevara]

You're a dumb fu*k. Jordan's 54 point game vs. NY was all jumpers, as was his 55 point game vs, Washington in the '97 playoffs off the top of my head.

THIS is the most aesthetically pleasing 50 point game of all time (i.e., the most fun to watch):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JVcwa99dBB4

Jordan's 56 points vs. Miami, 1992 playoffs.

PS - Kobe shot like sub-30% in the 4th quarters of games that series vs. Phoenix.
In the 54 point game, Jordan made one shot inside of 10 feet. Pretty crazy.

[Fatal9]

55 point game vs, Washington in the '97 playoffs off the top of my head.
One three made (with shortened line), while Kobe is burying 30 footers in the game posted in OP (probably 8-9 threes made by Kobe if we're talking shortened line here). Phuck outta here. And MJ's game 1 against Miami was more fun to watch. Still waiting for you to post an MJ game showing that sort of a combination of range/shot making (and this isn't even Kobe's best probably).

[Indian guy]

Kobe's 60 against Memphis is wayyyyy cooler to watch. Better than the game that the OP mentioned too.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfcx-0W4abw

Now this is a game that I would call aesthetically pleasing. 06-07 is the year where Kobe's game looked its smoothest.

MJ on the other hand was probably at his most graceful(at least on the perimeter) in 96-97. Check out this famous 'Con Game' against JVG where he dropped 51 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chJeKE2646U). It's beautiful.

[asdf1990]

Jordan is a poor man's Joe Johnson.

:oldlol:


so

jordan= poor mans joe johnson

kobe= poor mans jordan

kobe= homeless mans joe johnson?

[Samurai Swoosh]

Still waiting for you to post an MJ game showing that sort of a combination of range/shot making (and this isn't even Kobe's best probably).
No one is going to find it because it doesn't exist.

This mix shows clear as day, Kobe and Jordan really aren't alike as players at all.

Sure Kobe jacked MJ's swag, and tried to replicate aspects of his game. But at the end of the day they are very different.

As I said Wade is more like MJ lite. And Kobe is a different type of player all together.

[Fatal9]

MJ on the other hand was probably at his most graceful(at least on the perimeter) in 96-97. Check out this famous 'Con Game' against JVG where he dropped 51 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=chJeKE2646U). It's beautiful.

Me before watching highlights:

http://deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/brothercanyousparetwodimes3.png















Me after watching highlights:

http://deadhomersociety.files.wordpress.com/2009/11/brothercanyousparetwodimes3.png

[Samurai Swoosh]

Now this is a game that I would call aesthetically pleasing. 06-07 is the year where Kobe's game looked its smoothest.
He was just as smooth in 2006. Maybe a bit smoother because he was quicker in 2006 as well, getting to the basket with a lot more regularity. Half the 2007 was spent working himself back in to shape. Cause he was a lard ass for the first two - three months of the season.

Still looking for the video from the start of the season where they played the Bulls at home, and Kobe did the "dancing" dribbling through the legs on Sefalosha the way MJ did Bird in '86 playoffs.

There was even a Jermey Pivens NBA commercial that used it.

[blablabla]

Besides a few slight differences, these comparisons are dead on the money.

Kobe, deeper range than Iverson, slightly more effecient scorer, better on ball defender. Both can play the passing lanes.

Wade, less of a shooter, overall offensive skill set / defender, but his overall game and impact is Jordan lite.

LeBron, is a rich man's Pippen in every category offensively. From shooting, scoring, ball handling, and vastly superior in terms of court vision. He has the same "not going to take over the game at the expense of others" prototypical beta male mentality and skill set. Jack of all trades, master of nothing. Only slightly worse defensively.
kobe and iverson are totally different players

wade shows some similarities to young jordan but wade doesn't have the skillset of jordan, he isn't clutch as jordan, he can't score as much as jordan
for me wade is a classic combo guard especially 09 10 wade

pippen is a better shooter, james is alot better at driving and james looks for the assist not for the pass
that's why cleveland was almost a perfect team for him

but these players are way too unique to be compared to someone else

[ThaSwagg3r]

Naw, he's a rich man's Allen Iverson.

Wade is a poor man's Jordan.

LeBron is a rich man's Pippen.
I agree with Wade and LeBron, but I disagree with Kobe, although I do see many similarities between the two. Kobe is too jump shot happy to be considered a rich man's Iverson, Iverson was a beast and relentless at attacking the rim. Maybe a rich man's Glen Rice? :confusedshrug:

[Jacks3]

so

jordan= poor mans joe johnson

kobe= poor mans jordan

kobe= homeless mans joe johnson?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9bT4IX_1hI&feature=related

lol @ the clumsy-ass ball-handling by MJ at 2:45-50.

Dude's skill-set clearly pales in comparison to Kobe. Deal with it. :facepalm

[nnn123]

This is what happens when Kobe loses....the Kobe fans get angry and start going wild

Crazily enough, they were far less obnoxious when Kobe was winning

[Jacks3]

Maybe a rich man's Glen Rice? :confusedshrug:
:facepalm

[Banksh]

Maybe a rich man's Glen Rice? :confusedshrug:
A rich man's Michael Jordan

[rodman91]

[QUOTE=Banksh

[DRoseOwnsACamry]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lUf4sCUsDpI

oh lawd, barely any layups, just unbelievable shooting ability (lol MJ could never pull this off, just didn't have the shooting/range).
Shut the **** up.

[Samurai Swoosh]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h9bT4IX_1hI&feature=related

lol @ the clumsy-ass ball-handling by MJ at 2:45-50.

Dude's skill-set clearly pales in comparison to Kobe. Deal with it. :facepalm
Getting ripped by ... GASP ... a rookie WHITE BOY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH-amQVfD7Q

:oldlol:

I can find more clips of Kobe getting ripped before or sloppily losing the ball. Doesn't mean he doesn't have handle.

EPIC FAIL on your part.

:facepalm

[Tide]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4Vy0kI4SMvo

Just as impressive.

[Jacks3]

Getting ripped by ... GASP ... a rookie WHITE BOY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eH-amQVfD7Q

:oldlol:

I can find more clips of Kobe getting ripped before or sloppily losing the ball. Doesn't mean he doesn't have handle.

EPIC FAIL on your part.

:facepalm
Thing is...even in that Kobe clip his handle looks FAR smoother and in-control than Jordan's. :oldlol:

And MJ wasn't ripped. He just lost control of his handle. Please find me a prime Kobe play where he looks as clumsy and uncoordinated with the handle as MJ does there. You can't.

Fail.

[Samurai Swoosh]

And MJ wasn't ripped. He just lost control of his handle. Please find me a prime Kobe play where he looks as clumsy and uncoordinated with the handle as MJ does there. You can't.

Fail.
Being ripped, losing the ball. Either way it's a turnover. You're arguing semantics. You keep talking like a straight idiot. And yes I've seen Kobe lose his handle before. He made this HUGE 3 pointer against the Mavs in 2006 falling away after he loses his handle. I can find more, or try to remember some more. Point is it makes no difference. He's lost the ball before. It happens to everyone. Kobe is no different.

Jacks3 is effecient at his fail.

:oldlol:

[catch24]

Being ripped, losing the ball. Either way it's a turnover. You're arguing semantics. You keep talking like a straight idiot. And yes I've seen Kobe lose his handle before. He made this HUGE 3 pointer against the Mavs in 2006 falling away after he loses his handle. I can find more, or try to remember some more. Point is it makes no difference. He's lost the ball before. It happens to everyone. Kobe is no different.

Jacks3 is effecient at his fail.

:oldlol:

Yup... Kobe never loses his handle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwWQTGJPzzY#t=3m23s)

[Jacks3]

Being ripped, losing the ball. Either way it's a turnover. You're arguing semantics.

:oldlol:
Actually, there's a big difference between your defender just making a great play to steal the ball and simply losing the handle while looking clumsy and uncoordinated (like on the MJ play). And it's not just one play. You watch any prime MJ game and he doesn't look as smooth with the handle as Bryant, especially when he's handling for a extensive period of time.

That's a fact. C'mon son. :pimp:

[nnn123]

I know this is all opinion, but personally I don't find Kobe's game too "aesthetically pleasing"....it's too predictable. You know he's gonna do the same shake and bake, pull up 3 every time. Or at least that's what it feels like.

I think Jordan's game was far more fun to watch...he mixed it up. You have no idea what's coming next. Taking it to the hoop, pulling up mid-range, throwing up long balls every once in a while. Not to mention the sweet breakaway dunks. "Aesthetically pleasing" is Jordan ala 1990, like this clip:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eqxHIgW2SQA


I love watching him grab the ball in the post, make a lightning quick move and make the oncoming triple team look like it doesn't even exist

[Samurai Swoosh]

Yup... Kobe never loses his handle (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CwWQTGJPzzY#t=3m23s)
And this by no means Kobe doesn't have a sick handle (he does) ... so does MJ. Everyone makes errors with the ball from time to time. I hate having to look down on either of my two favorite players, but the retarded Kobe fans make it almost impossible to be objective sometimes. Jacks3 is certifiable. Talks straight "gaga" with some of the idiotic things he says.

[catch24]

And this by no means Kobe doesn't have a sick handle (he does) ... so does MJ. Everyone makes errors with the ball from time to time. I hate having to look down on either of my two favorite players, but the retarded Kobe fans make it almost impossible to be objective sometimes. Jacks3 is certifiable. Talks straight "gaga" with some of the idiotic things he says.

bbbb..bbbbu....but, Kobe never loses his handle! He's just perfect.

:oldlol: at Jackie.

[Jacks3]

Saying Kobe has a better handle is idiotic?

You Jordan fans. :facepalm

[Samurai Swoosh]

bbbb..bbbbu....but, Kobe never loses his handle! He's just perfect.

:oldlol: at Jackie.
When accomplishments don't stack up to MJ, resort to arguments for skill based abilities that are ultimately subjective. MJ didn't have Marjele's range, Chuck Person's range, Reggie's range etc.

Does that make those players better or more impressive?

:oldlol:

The logic is so remedial. And it seems to even be destroying good posters like Fatal9 lately. He's sounding more and more similar to the stans.

[Samurai Swoosh]

Saying Kobe has a better handle is idiotic?
That's not what we were saying. But anyway ... what is even the relevance of that statement to the conversation at hand?

:oldlol:

[Jacks3]

That's not what we were saying.
:oldlol:
Good. As long as we agree that Bryant's handle> Jordan's.

Nobody said it makes him a better player. I'm just pointing it out.

It's fun to discuss these things. :pimp:

[catch24]

That's not what we were saying. But anyway ... what is even the relevance of that statement to the conversation at hand?

:oldlol:

Jackie just private messaged me (not even kidding) asking for my digits. Unfortunately, I don't mess around with groupies...

/ignored

[Jacks3]

:lol

[branslowski]

Jackie just private messaged me (not even kidding) asking for my digits. Unfortunately, I don't mess around with groupies...

/ignored

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Samurai Swoosh]

Good. As long as we agree that Bryant's handle> Jordan's.
I agree with it. Doesn't mean MJ didn't have handle though, either. MJ also doesn't have Kobe's range. Not many people do. Gilbert Arenas is a combo guard with sick range, but Wade is a combo guard that doesn't have his range, yet is the better scorer.


Nobody said it makes him a better player. I'm just pointing it out.
I know it doesn't, because Kobe's not better.