If you'd take Wilt directly from the 60's and put him in a NBA game today?

[millwad]

I've seen so many comments about how great Wilt was, about how dominant he was and how skilled he was that I've lost count. Guys like JLauber on this forum thinks that Wilt would have dominated with the same skillset he had a la the 60's in todays game.

Obviously his stats can be used as a proof of how dominant he was, but as we all know, the game hadn't developed all that much by that time.

How do you think that Wilt would do if he played today, I don't mean how he would have done with todays training, I mean if you'd been able to put Wilt from the 60's in a game today vs todays player, how would he do?

http://joshqpublic.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/Wilt.jpg

[Myth]

Wilt on top, NBA on bottom.

http://www.threadbombing.com/data/media/12/pwned_2.jpg

[IGOTGAME]

First team all nba.

[Kblaze8855]

I see no reason to assume he wouldnt be great. Bigmen have not changed skillset wise in 50 years. He was past his prime outplaying guys who proved themselves vs modern players. Kareem played people who retired in like 2007..and spent years abusing modern centers wh played well into the 90s. Post injury older bigger wilt could handle him in his prime. What are the guys now gonna do that Kareem couldnt?

Only issues I can see are with him adjusting to off the ball doubles but I dont see much problem. If you can defend you can defend. Rebounders dont lose it. Modern level players have been lit up by him past his prime.

Numbers are hard to say. But he would be elite. I dont see any reason to assume Dwight does anything he couldnt. And ive seen Wilt do several things ive not seen Dwight do.

[Rnbizzle]

Poor mans Roy Hibbert.

[Sarcastic]

30 points / 18 rebounds / 4 blocks per game in his prime.

[jlip]

Let's see. In today's NBA the best rebounder is a somewhat chunky, athletically challenged player with little to no vertical leap, Kevin Love, and he was able to average over 15rpg while only playing 35 mpg. Give a 7'1" athletic freak like Wilt who is obsessed with stats, 39+ mpg in this league and I see no reason as to why he shouldn't be able to average at least 16rpg.

Also how much one scores hasn't changed. Ordinarily the more shots you take the greater the chance of scoring more points become. The best scoring center in the league this season was Howard. He attempted only 13.4 fgs and 11.4 fts per game in 37.6 minutes avg 22.9ppg. Allow Wilt to attempt only 17 fgs and 11 fts in 39+ minutes and he's going to score 24ppg easily.

Conclusion: At 24ppg 16rpg, he would be the best center in the league.

[blablabla]

d league bench warmer

[KevinNYC]

Conclusion: At 24ppg 16rpg, he would be the best center in the league.

I think you need to throw in a preseason for Wilt to make adjustments.

Also don't show him his paycheck before the game or he might just have a heart-attack.

[JMT]

Just like then, he'd get whatever he wanted.

There isn't a current big man who is any better than Nate Thurmond. Wilt would be 1st team all NBA and posting ridiculous numbers, just as he did in the day.

The center position hasn't progressed in 50 years. It's regressed to the point of almost disappearing.

[Kellogs4toniee]

I see no reason to assume he wouldnt be great. Bigmen have not changed skillset wise in 50 years. He was past his prime outplaying guys who proved themselves vs modern players. Kareem played people who retired in like 2007..and spent years abusing modern centers wh played well into the 90s. Post injury older bigger wilt could handle him in his prime. What are the guys now gonna do that Kareem couldnt?

Only issues I can see are with him adjusting to off the ball doubles but I dont see much problem. If you can defend you can defend. Rebounders dont lose it. Modern level players have been lit up by him past his prime.

Numbers are hard to say. But he would be elite. I dont see any reason to assume Dwight does anything he couldnt. And ive seen Wilt do several things ive not seen Dwight do.


This. Big men's impact and resilience to the difference of eras in the game of basketball hasn't really drastically changed through the last four-five decades in NBA history. Like mentioned, players from the previous decade or decades dominated and more than held there own against the new cream of big men who played well into the modern age. It makes absolutely no sense then to think Wilt wouldn't have dominated in today's league.

[alwaysunny]

Too much distraction from the cheerleaders. He'll be sitting on the bench.

[1Time4YourMind]

if he is the 1st option on the team he might be well on his way to averaging 26/13, but i think his best role would be the 2nd scoring option and concentrating on defense and rebounding, maybe a 21/16 with 3 blocks a game.

however just as his defense carries over so does that horrendous FT shooting. hack-a-wilt would be hilarious.

[Butters]

Let's see. In today's NBA the best rebounder is a somewhat chunky, athletically challenged player with little to no vertical leap, Kevin Love, and he was able to average over 15rpg while only playing 35 mpg. Give a 7'1" athletic freak like Wilt who is obsessed with stats, 39+ mpg in this league and I see no reason as to why he shouldn't be able to average at least 16rpg.
Also how much one scores hasn't changed. Ordinarily the more shots you take the greater the chance of scoring more points become. The best scoring center in the league this season was Howard. He attempted only 13.4 fgs and 11.4 fts per game in 37.6 minutes avg 22.9ppg. Allow Wilt to attempt only 17 fgs and 11 fts in 39+ minutes and he's going to score 24ppg easily.

Conclusion: At 24ppg 16rpg, he would be the best center in the league.

You say the best rebounder today is a unathletic player with no vert and grabs 15 a game,then say wilt is an athletic freak driven by stats and he's only going to "at least" grab 1 more board?Odd

[Psileas]

Give him a few weeks to learn the basic schemes of today's game and to come in terms with the fact that he won't be seen as a "monster who has to prove he is skilled". Convince him all he has to do is play with power and dunk as much as possible. Also, show him clips of Shaq brutalizing offensively his opponents, often by commiting offensive fouls that are not whistled, just to motivate him.

Then, give him a couple of days to stop laughing after learning about the top centers in today's game.

/league.

Next



(And no, don't anyone come up with the "no, no, what would he do if you immediately planted him right before the start of a game and told him to play and after that single game transported him back to the past?" type of question. Means nothing. In the very first time Wilt played against Russell, Russell showed him that his finesse moves won't work on him and limited him to something like 12/38 shots. In the next game, Wilt cut down the finesse and destroyed him).

[jlauber]

Let's get real here...who in the hell in the CURRENT NBA would be able to STOP him????

The man was a FULL 7-2 (he only admitted to 7-1 1/2, but the evidence is OVERWHELMING that he was at LEAST 7-2, and probably taller.) Think about that... 7-2 BARE-FOOT. So, in TODAY's NBA he would be at LEAST 7-3 (with shoes...and probably closer to 7-3 1/2.) He was already among the strongest athletes in the WORLD in the mid-to-late 60's, and was a MONSTER by the 70's. Forget his bench-press for a minute (which was probably in the 500 lb. range)...he had PURE STRENGTH. Just google "Wilt's Strength" and you will get page-after-page of all kinds of articles...and very few actually credited to Wilt, himself.

He had a MEASURED 7'-8" wingspan. Here was a player who would be at least 7-3 TODAY, with a 7-8 wingspan.

He had INCREDIBLE leaping ability. Here again, just Google "Wilt's Vertical Leap", and you find all kinds of staggering numbers...and practically none of them initiated by Chamberlain. He was a PART-TIME high-jump CHAMPION. He also particpated in the long-jump, and the triple jump at KU. Oh, and BTW, he also ran the 440, and three the shot-put.

Speed? He was a member of KU's 4x100 relay team. He was asked to try-out for the KC Chiefs by Hank Stram, and outraced the Chiefs fastest RB. By the end of the try-out Stram had given Wilt a LEGITIMATE CONTRACT OFFER to play for the Chiefs. He felt that Wilt would have been an All-Pro at not one, but THREE positions (DL, LB, and TE.) And don't forget, Stram had 6-9 Buck Buchanon on those great KC teams. In any case, those that actually witnessed Chamberlain would tell you that he was the FASTEST player in the league in the 60's.

How about SKILLS? None other than HOF Coach Red Holzman claimed that Wilt came into the NBA with a very good OUTSIDE shot. He also had a devastating 10-15 ft. turn-around JUMP SHOT; a 15 ft. BANK SHOT (that was every bit as good as Duncan's); and even a HOOK SHOT. Along with his famed finger-roll, and just plain overwhelming power (which he seldom took advantage of.)

ENDURANCE? He AVERAGED 45.2 mpg in his CAREER. He has the SEVEN highest MPG SEASONS in NBA history. Then, in his 160 career playoff games, he AVERAGED an unbelieveable 47.2 MPG. BTW, he was running MARATHONS in his 60's.

There has NEVER been a period in NBA history, whether it be the 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, or even TODAY, that a PRIME Wilt would not have been the most dominant player in the league. Even a well-past his prime was a top-3 player in the league into his LAST season, (which BTW, he LED the NBA in rebounding, was voted first-team all-defense, and set a FG% mark that will probably never be approached.)

If Love could get 15 rpg in today's NBA. If Kobe could get 28 FGAs in '06 (and Hakeem could get 30 FGAs per game in the '95 Finals). If Lebron and Iverson could play 43+ mpg in the decade of the 00's. If Howard could shoot 60% in the current NBA. Well, a PRIME Chamberlain, playing against the inept centers like Turiaf, Chuck Hayes, David Lee, Channing Frye, Glen Davis, Erick Dampier, Nazr Mohammed...et. al.

30-35 ppg, 17-20 rpg, .600+ FG% (especially against these clowns they call "centers"), 4+ apg, and 6 bpg. And all of that would be BEFORE all of the advantages of modern technology, medicine, nutrition, coaching, "supplements", and conditioning.

[Stuckey]

his only "competition" is dwight, no reason why he shouldnt be mvp candidate every year

[ShaqAttack3234]

He'd still be an elite shot blocker and rebounder and I've seen him make great passes that are impressive regardless of the era.

But as a scorer? I really don't know how well he'd fare, he'd get points off lobs, put backs and running the floor, but his post game really looks unimpressive to me. He looked slow and clumsy backing guys down in the post, I think he'd have trouble with the double teams and team defenses today and get stripped more.


I see no reason to assume he wouldnt be great. Bigmen have not changed skillset wise in 50 years. He was past his prime outplaying guys who proved themselves vs modern players. Kareem played people who retired in like 2007..and spent years abusing modern centers wh played well into the 90s. Post injury older bigger wilt could handle him in his prime. What are the guys now gonna do that Kareem couldnt?

Only issues I can see are with him adjusting to off the ball doubles but I dont see much problem. If you can defend you can defend. Rebounders dont lose it. Modern level players have been lit up by him past his prime.

Numbers are hard to say. But he would be elite. I dont see any reason to assume Dwight does anything he couldnt. And ive seen Wilt do several things ive not seen Dwight do.

I disagree, I'm not sure he could do everything that Dwight does.

[BigBalla44]

He'd still be an elite shot blocker and rebounder and I've seen him make great passes that are impressive regardless of the era.

But as a scorer? I really don't know how well he'd fare, he'd get points off lobs, put backs and running the floor, but his post game really looks unimpressive to me. He looked slow and clumsy backing guys down in the post, I think he'd have trouble with the double teams and team defenses today and get stripped more.



I disagree, I'm not sure he could do everything that Dwight does.


LOL. Your bias is obviously robbing you of all reason. Dwight cant even do a proper drop step..

[ShaqAttack3234]

LOL. Your bias is obviously robbing you of all reason. Dwight cant even do a proper drop step..

Did you watch Dwight last year? His post game looked really good. Even people who had criticized his skills were impressed by him last year.


if he is the 1st option on the team he might be well on his way to averaging 26/13, but i think his best role would be the 2nd scoring option and concentrating on defense and rebounding, maybe a 21/16 with 3 blocks a game.

however just as his defense carries over so does that horrendous FT shooting. hack-a-wilt would be hilarious.

Pretty realistic, imo as far as stat predictions.

[millwad]

I'm a little surprised that almost all of you guys think he'd be the best center in the game, one could think that the game had changed a little too much during these 50 years.

I don't think Wilt would have any problems on defense but the thing that came to my mind is that his moves in the post looked a little clumsy and that he could be en easy target of getting hacked since he was terrible from the FT-line, even worse than Shaq. He was a 51% FT-shooter during his career and his FT-attempts looked like this:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITxDdnzpnU8


But yeah, I think he'd be a sure shot in the NBA today, but I think more has happened on the center position than some of you think. Though all, a guy like Russell would never be the force he once was in his own era in he played today and he would never been a MVP or anything like that.

[MaxFly]

Wilt would be good, but coming directly from the 60s, I'm not sure he's be great... at least not right away. With the large number of rules changes between then and now, it would take him some time to adjust. And let's be frank, while the NBA isn't rife with excellent centers, the overall talent in this league is light years ahead of what it was in the 60s. Teams would find it much easier to limit him now than they did in the 60s, and he would consistently be in foul trouble.

[DRose1899]

I'm more convinced with Russell's chance in todays era than Wilt.

[jbryan1984]

Without doubt, he would be the best center in the league today. Prime Shaq would had given him a nice run though. I think he would absolutely be first team All NBA and an All-Star but as far as averaging 50 PPG or whatever he did, hell no.

[colts19]

In todays NBA the Center position is a after thought. Wilt would just kill these guys including howard. I along with others keep saying it and I will always believe that Wilt was the greatest athlete to ever play the game. I remember in the 80's Robert Parrish would score a lot of his points because he could get down the floor faster that other Centers. My God what would Wilt do. Guys like Shaq couldn't guard him he was to slow after about 7 years in the league. Pick any era and wilt would have been the most unstopable player. Those of you who don't think he would score. On what do you base that. It sure as hell can't be all the scoring records he holds.

Wilt had a great bank shot, equal to or better than Duncans. You people have no idea how truly great this guy was.

[Jacks3]

30/15/4/3/DPOY-caliber player.

[millwad]

In todays NBA the Center position is a after thought. Wilt would just kill these guys including howard. I along with others keep saying it and I will always believe that Wilt was the greatest athlete to ever play the game. I remember in the 80's Robert Parrish would score a lot of his points because he could get down the floor faster that other Centers. My God what would Wilt do. Guys like Shaq couldn't guard him he was to slow after about 7 years in the league. Pick any era and wilt would have been the most unstopable player. Those of you who don't think he would score. On what do you base that. It sure as hell can't be all the scoring records he holds.

Wilt had a great bank shot, equal to or better than Duncans. You people have no idea how truly great this guy was.

Wouldn't a guy who had a "great bank shot", equal or better than Duncan's have a better shot from the FT-line than this;

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITxDdnzpnU8 ?

[IGOTGAME]

He'd still be an elite shot blocker and rebounder and I've seen him make great passes that are impressive regardless of the era.

But as a scorer? I really don't know how well he'd fare, he'd get points off lobs, put backs and running the floor, but his post game really looks unimpressive to me. He looked slow and clumsy backing guys down in the post, I think he'd have trouble with the double teams and team defenses today and get stripped more.



I disagree, I'm not sure he could do everything that Dwight does.

Please explain these things right can do that wilt can't.

Let's also remember wilt becomes the best athlete in the league from day one.

[wakencdukest]

Best center in the league today. I would rather put him in the 90's and see how he'd do.

[millwad]

Please explain these things right can do that wilt can't.

Let's also remember wilt becomes the best athlete in the league from day one.

He couldn't shoot FT's.

[IGOTGAME]

He couldn't shoot FT's.
I meant to say dwight howard there...phone did autocorrect

[ShaqAttack3234]

Please explain these things right can do that wilt can't.

Let's also remember wilt becomes the best athlete in the league from day one.

Dwight's footwork looked considerably better and in all of that footage of Wilt, it doesn't seem that he had a jump hook which is the best shot for a big man to have down, imo, Dwight has become very good with jump hooks with either hand, I haven't seen Wilt show he has a left hand equal to Dwight's either and I haven't seen him show the athleticism that Dwight has in any of those clips.

[Fatal9]

I see no reason to assume he wouldnt be great. Bigmen have not changed skillset wise in 50 years. He was past his prime outplaying guys who proved themselves vs modern players. Kareem played people who retired in like 2007..and spent years abusing modern centers wh played well into the 90s. Post injury older bigger wilt could handle him in his prime. What are the guys now gonna do that Kareem couldnt?
Some player's offensive skills translate better era-to-era than others. Kareem had maybe the best touch of any center within 10 feet of the basket, had the most unstoppable shot in history that will go in no matter who the competition, his skills are timeless, that's part of the reason he is so great. Same thing with Parish, he had that turnaround that was going to be as money as it was in the 70s as it was in the 90s. Some players can refine their skills, some can't. You can't use the most talented or skilled players who had tremendous longevity to chain everything together and say everyone from that era would manage to do well. I can use that logic to say Mikan would dominate today. Mikan retired a season before Russell entered the league who faced Wilt who faced Kareem who faced Hakeem who would be the best C in the league today. Some players would be more hurt than the other, and Wilt IMO is one of them specifically when it comes to scoring (though rebounding/defense he'd be dominant).

Nothing in any of the footage I've seen from Wilt suggests he'd be a 25+ ppg scorer (ESPECIALLY in a setting where he wouldn't be allowed to play 46-48 mpg). I know the footage isn't that much, just 4-5 games (well "halfs") I think from the 60s, but you show me random 4-5 games of KAJ or MJ or Magic, you can get an understanding of their skill-sets, their moves, their ability to post up etc etc. Wilt in the post just looks...awkward...the way he dribbles, it's for far too long to succeed against today's team defenses. I kind of wish they kept track of turnovers because I'm betting he averaged some outrageous number. His footwork is raw. His FT shooting makes me question his shooting ability and touch around the basket. His efficiency in his era wasn't even that great, especially in the playoffs and compared to guys like Oscar/West (51 TS% volume shooting center? That's terrible). I just don't respect him as a scorer. I find it suspicious that he is literally the only "great" scorer who was asked to become like 4th or 5th scoring option on his team for them to succeed, and when he did, his team's offense became much much better. If a guy is THAT great at scoring, you don't ask him to do that.

In his volume scoring years, his teams offensively weren't even doing that well. Maybe a bit of Adrian Dantley syndrome going on (without the efficiency). If he played the normal 38-40 mpg in most of those years, his scoring averages in most of those years (with wider lane) would peak out at 31-32 ppg. And that's with the outrageous pace he played at, which normally I don't think affects centers but Wilt seemed to get a lot of his offense from offensive rebounding (and 60s were prime time to do this with a) lot of missed shots due to poor shooting and b) the super high pace). He might actually be a better team player nowadays because no team would make him a volume shooter (not efficient enough), and would be basically playing the rebounding/shotblocker/finisher role.

[kaiiu]

Ryan hollins. Tyson Chandler if he improves his work ethic

[IGOTGAME]

Dwight's footwork looked considerably better and in all of that footage of Wilt, it doesn't seem that he had a jump hook which is the best shot for a big man to have down, imo, Dwight has become very good with jump hooks with either hand, I haven't seen Wilt show he has a left hand equal to Dwight's either and I haven't seen him show the athleticism that Dwight has in any of those clips.

Wilt has shown considerable woodwork. He has shown a doorstep, face up jumper, and the finger roll over each shoulder. At that time there was no need for him use the jumphook because the fingeroll was there. This the same move sabonis would use on shaq, drob etc. And have a lot of success. Unlike dwight, wilt understood his moves and why they worked instead of just arbitrarily picking a move like dwight often does.

[imdaman99]

it depends, how many chicks is he banging every night? he could bang 5-10 a night back then and get away with it because he was a physical specimen. in the 90s, since MJ shut down everyone even centers, he could have averaged 18 and 10 in that era.

[millwad]

Some player's offensive skills translate better era-to-era than others. Kareem had maybe the best touch of any center within 10 feet of the basket, had the most unstoppable shot in history that will go in no matter who the competition, his skills are timeless, that's part of the reason he is so great. Same thing with Parish, he had that turnaround that was going to be as money as it was in the 70s as it was in the 90s. Some players can refine their skills, some can't. You can't use the most talented or skilled players who had tremendous longevity to chain everything together and say everyone from that era would manage to do well. I can use that logic to say Mikan would dominate today. Mikan retired a season before Russell entered the league who faced Wilt who faced Kareem who faced Hakeem who would be the best C in the league today. Some players would be more hurt than the other, and Wilt IMO is one of them specifically when it comes to scoring (though rebounding/defense he'd be dominant).

Nothing in any of the footage I've seen from Wilt suggests he'd be a 25+ ppg scorer (ESPECIALLY in a setting where he wouldn't be allowed to play 46-48 mpg). I know the footage isn't that much, just 4-5 games (well "halfs") I think from the 60s, but you show me random 4-5 games of KAJ or MJ or Magic, you can get an understanding of their skill-sets, their moves, their ability to post up etc etc. Wilt in the post just looks...awkward...the way he dribbles, it's for far too long to succeed against today's team defenses. I kind of wish they kept track of turnovers because I'm betting he averaged some outrageous number. His footwork is raw. His FT shooting makes me question his shooting ability and touch around the basket. His efficiency in his era wasn't even that great, especially in the playoffs and compared to guys like Oscar/West (51 TS% volume shooting center? That's terrible). I just don't respect him as a scorer.

In his volume scoring years, his teams offensively weren't even doing that well. Maybe a bit of Adrian Dantley syndrome going on (without the efficiency). If he played the normal 38-40 mpg in most of those years, his scoring averages in most of those years (with wider lane) would peak out at 31-32 ppg. And that's with the outrageous pace he played at, which normally I don't think affects centers but Wilt seemed to get a lot of his offense from offensive rebounding (and 60s were prime time to do this with a) lot of missed shots due to poor shooting and b) the super high pace). He might actually be a better player nowadays because no team would make him a volume shooter (not efficient enough), and would be basically playing the rebounding/shotblocker/finisher role.

Great post!
First of all, I couldn't agree more about Kareem's offensive game, his skills are really timeless and he would be just as effective now as or even more compared to the 90's, he was that skilled as a center. In my eyes he's easily the best center ever.

And yes, I agree completely about that you just can't assume that just because someone from one era, lets say Kareem, did great during a long timespan, that everyone else from the era before that faced him during the beginning of his career would be just as good or effective just because Kareem was.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Wilt has shown considerable woodwork. He has shown a doorstep, face up jumper, and the finger roll over each shoulder. At that time there was no need for him use the jumphook because the fingeroll was there. This the same move sabonis would use on shaq, drob etc. And have a lot of success. Unlike dwight, wilt understood his moves and why they worked instead of just arbitrarily picking a move like dwight often does.

Show me examples of Wilt's footwork, it's really unimpressive and I've watched all of the footage that's out there. A jump hook is a much better shot to have than a finger roll, it's much harder to block. Haven't seen that face up jumper, I've seen the turnaround bank shot, though I'm not sure what kind of percentage he shot it at. And he really didn't seem to be able to get into his move quickly or have real counters.

[28renyoy]

Did Jlauber really just say that Wilt's bankshot was as good as Dunca's? wow

[Fatal9]

Did Jlauber really just say that Wilt's bankshot was as good as Dunca's? wow
He was making 15 foot turnaround shots efficiently and had "KG range" but at the same time happened to be one of the worst FT shooters in history. Wilt is just a unique case I guess :rolleyes:

[Psileas]

Wilt has shown considerable woodwork. He has shown a doorstep, face up jumper, and the finger roll over each shoulder. At that time there was no need for him use the jumphook because the fingeroll was there. This the same move sabonis would use on shaq, drob etc. And have a lot of success. Unlike dwight, wilt understood his moves and why they worked instead of just arbitrarily picking a move like dwight often does.

True. Honestly, the only reason I find most people diss Wilt's scoring ability is because they watch his 70's Laker self, after his major injury, who was definitely not even close to being as fast and agile as his young self. Among younger Wilt's games, watch the '62 ASG or the '64 half against the Celtics (yeah, as if more even exist...). He hits fade-aways, bank shots, hell, just his offensive rebounding and his ability to get the ball close and finish should be enough to qualify him as a scoring threat. He could very well be an alternative Shaq version, with less bulk, more vertical game, without having to pattern any move to dominate.

His dribbling looks a bit awkward, but again not that much when you watch his younger self play. Again, people are too much in a hurry to judge him based on his '70 (post-injury) or '72 or '73 games. That version is by far at its offensive worst, and it's evident even by the standards of his own era: He would have games when he'd take only like 7-8 shots vs the same guys he had no problem taking 20 or even 30 shots against some years earlier. In 1962, he was averaging 55 ppg against Bellamy. One decade later, about 1/4 of it. Yes, defenses did become better, but not THAT much better. Definitely NOT Bellamy himself.


I can use that logic to say Mikan would dominate today. Mikan retired a season before Russell entered the league who faced Wilt who faced Kareem who faced Hakeem who would be the best C in the league today. Some players would be more hurt than the other, and Wilt IMO is one of them specifically when it comes to scoring (though rebounding/defense he'd be dominant).

Only, Mikan in 1956, with black men still a scarcity, but with the shot clock introduced, was limited to 10 ppg. It's not as if he was that old, either, although he definitely was out of his physical prime. Mikan scared practically nobody in 1956, unlike up to 2 years before. I have a much harder time picturing Mikan dominating today than Wilt.

[Fatal9]

Only, Mikan in 1956, with black men still a scarcity, but with the shot clock introduced, was limited to 10 ppg. It's not as if he was that old, either, although he definitely was out of his physical prime. Mikan scared practically nobody in 1956, unlike up to 2 years before. I have a much harder time picturing Mikan dominating today than Wilt.
In 1962, out of all the players in the league who played 10+ mpg (90 players total), only 31 were black (that includes mixed players like Wilkens). So 66% of the league was white and that percentage is probably closer to or higher than 70% if you factor in the bench scrubs of each team. The white-black card can be played for the 60s too, especially the early part. So many of the 50s players were playing in the 60s, some succeeded, some didn't, why? Because like I said, some players adjust better and possess the necessary skills while others don't. Can't use a couple of players who had great longevity/timeless skills to act like nothing would change across eras.

[Scholar]

I'd imagine Wilt could be one of the better players in the league today, but this is another "what if" question, so :confusedshrug: . I can't really say I know what would happen. Maybe Wilt would be dropping 25 and 12.

[Jasper]

Picture a totem post in the center of the lane controling traffic , the basket , the defense , and well the offense thru him.

I saw him play , I'd say he would dial down his offense to :

30 ppg 20 boards (10+ dimes) 7+ blocks.

And if he ever took instructions from me - he would shoot 70% from the line :rolleyes:

[Psileas]

In 1962, out of all the players in the league who played 10+ mpg (90 players total), only 31 were black (that includes mixed players like Wilkens). So 66% of the league was white and that percentage is probably closer to or higher than 70% if you factor in the bench scrubs of each team. The white-black card can be played for the 60s too, especially the early part. So many of the 50s players were playing in the 60s, some succeeded, some didn't, why? Because like I said, some players adjust better and possess the necessary skills while others don't. Can't use a couple of players who had great longevity/timeless skills to act like nothing would change across eras.

Wilt produced pretty well against black men, as well. Bellamy was the guy against whom Wilt was the most productive in '62 (and maybe other seasons), and was far from white. You can't play the "white" card on all the white players, either. A guy like Lovellette or, to a lesser extent, Red Kerr, wasn't "white". He was simply good enough to qualify, anyway. He played "blacker" than a lot of blacks. As a fan of the 80's Celtics yourself, you must know very well how this "white" rule doesn't apply nearly as much as some think.
You did well to mention the scrubs. Most of them whites. Not an easy era for scrubs, though. Pretty many guys with huge minutes + smaller rosters. That's why, when it comes to mentioning color, I'd rather see the distribution of minutes played per color, instead of the number of players per color. Here's a clue: In 1962, 40% of the top-20 in mpg were blacks. In 1966 (Wilt's last scoring title), it was 65%. But, I bet you, he still did pretty well against blacks, as well, or against all-stars, whatever you want to choose.

[ShaqAttack3234]

True. Honestly, the only reason I find most people diss Wilt's scoring ability is because they watch his 70's Laker self, after his major injury, who was definitely not even close to being as fast and agile as his young self. Among younger Wilt's games, watch the '62 ASG or the '64 half against the Celtics (yeah, as if more even exist...). He hits fade-aways, bank shots, hell, just his offensive rebounding and his ability to get the ball close and finish should be enough to qualify him as a scoring threat. He could very well be an alternative Shaq version, with less bulk, more vertical game, without having to pattern any move to dominate.

His dribbling looks a bit awkward, but again not that much when you watch his younger self play. Again, people are too much in a hurry to judge him based on his '70 (post-injury) or '72 or '73 games. That version is by far at its offensive worst, and it's evident even by the standards of his own era: He would have games when he'd take only like 7-8 shots vs the same guys he had no problem taking 20 or even 30 shots against some years earlier. In 1962, he was averaging 55 ppg against Bellamy. One decade later, about 1/4 of it. Yes, defenses did become better, but not THAT much better. Definitely NOT Bellamy himself.



Only, Mikan in 1956, with black men still a scarcity, but with the shot clock introduced, was limited to 10 ppg. It's not as if he was that old, either, although he definitely was out of his physical prime. Mikan scared practically nobody in 1956, unlike up to 2 years before. I have a much harder time picturing Mikan dominating today than Wilt.

Post game and dribbling look awkward in that '67 game too which was pre-injury and when many consider Wilt to be at his peak.

[nnn123]

Maybe if we could see some REAL footage of Wilt, and not the ridiculous shiz the NBA puts out there, then we could assess his offensive ability. I swear, they only want to put out his worst games on NBATV. Dude has like 20 60 point games and we can't even see ONE?

It's ridiculous to assume he would only be a 20/10 player in today's league.

[Kblaze8855]

Some player's offensive skills translate better era-to-era than others. Kareem had maybe the best touch of any center within 10 feet of the basket, had the most unstoppable shot in history that will go in no matter who the competition, his skills are timeless, that's part of the reason he is so great. Same thing with Parish, he had that turnaround that was going to be as money as it was in the 70s as it was in the 90s. Some players can refine their skills, some can't. You can't use the most talented or skilled players who had tremendous longevity to chain everything together and say everyone from that era would manage to do well. I can use that logic to say Mikan would dominate today. Mikan retired a season before Russell entered the league who faced Wilt who faced Kareem who faced Hakeem who would be the best C in the league today. Some players would be more hurt than the other, and Wilt IMO is one of them specifically when it comes to scoring (though rebounding/defense he'd be dominant).

No you couldnt. Thats almost as much of a stretch as the people saying "Oh so Horry>Barkley?" about rings making a players career. Kareem was no doubt better in the 0s than the 80s. Yet in his late 30s he outplayed guys who would easily be the best centers today. Not every game. But he did. Wilt...a much declined as an athlete Wilt...stood toe to toe with him at times outplaying him. The superior Kareem...who in declined form...was easily able to stand with and outplay modern legends.

That is nothing like Mikan. For one...Mikan was born in 1924. He was of age to be a pro player during WW2. He is not Bill Russell. He came back to do next to nothing and he hardly dominated when he did it(even before he went out he was doing 18 on 38% shooting). Mikan was still young but he didnt really dominate Russells NBA and even if he had...to go with...Mikan played russell who played wilt who played Kareem who played Hakeem would be.....___.

Kareem is one person. His young version no doubt better than his old. Wilt held his own and at times outplayed his young version. His old version was better than a lot of modern centers.

Seems like a pretty obvious conclusion to me. If Wilt can handle Kareem in his prime no reason to assume he cant handle the filth out there now. A far different thing than saying Mikan ___ then ___ then ___ and ___ so ____.

Even ignoring the common sense issues about comparing Mikan and Wilt to begin with.

And Kareem isnt the only one. Wilt outplauyed Unseld. Unseld was a finals MVP in what...1978? Unseld was putting up 10/13/5 vs people who were in the league in 1999. Wilt outplayed elvin Hayes. Hayes was a star with Magic and Bird. He put up 23/11 in 1980 and was productive at 37 in 83. Ive heard from Bob Laniers mouth Wilt used to beast him. bob was going strong doing numbers after years of injuries in low minutes in 1984.

Wilt played guys who flat out DID do well in modern settings. Its far from a Mikan situation. Not a theory how he could do vs modern guys. he PLAYED modern guys. Im sure many here dont consider the 80s modern. But I do. Perhaps im just old though.

But I dont see how guys like Hayes, Unseld, Kareem and so on dont prove Wilt was a good player vs any era of bigman. Its as if if Wilt throws Bob Mcadoos shot in his prime it proves nothing but Hakeem does it to an old broken down Bob its impressive. People act like Hakeem so on are a whole new era. The eras blend. a lot. Mikan doesnt much blend with modern times.

Wilt? Id say he proved himself vs enough guys I dont have to ask if he could do it.

[magnax1]

Well Wilt had a pretty modern post game. Him and Kareem actually had really similar post games excluding the sky hook (though obviously that was the largest part of Kareem's post game) They both had a similar turnaround (Wilt got a lot more lift on his) and Kareem used a really similar finger roll to Wilts quite often. Though you have to remember when Wilt was scoring 50 ppg a ton of that was coming in transition, and athleticism like Wilt's translates to any era. I don't really know what the stats would be, but he'd be a top tier player in any era.

[HYJ]

He will competing with Dwight for the best center and maybe top 5 player in today's NBA.

But his all time ranking will decline because he will not be that dominant as he was in his time.

[Kevin_Gamble]

He'll probably develop as a face up stretch forward who tries to take guys off the dribble and shoot threes.

[IGOTGAME]

Show me examples of Wilt's footwork, it's really unimpressive and I've watched all of the footage that's out there. A jump hook is a much better shot to have than a finger roll, it's much harder to block. Haven't seen that face up jumper, I've seen the turnaround bank shot, though I'm not sure what kind of percentage he shot it at. And he really didn't seem to be able to get into his move quickly or have real counters.

Look no further than ISH's own Kblaze.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAaaWpt3qDc

does that look clumsy to you.

-dropstep left at 2:27
-3:28 hookshot
-dropstep baseline finish on opposite side -3:30
-fadeaway bankshot at 4:00
-fadeaway to the middle at 4:26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLrMw3vvhQw&feature=fvwrel

-up and under :08
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Z4en6i9MM&feature=related

-pass at :44(much more touch and feel than Dwight has shown as a passer)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Zlnwmtf3Q&feature=related

-pass at 2:02(quick read with ample touch)

oh, and who is gonna stop Wilt's rim runs...lol people who don't respect Wilt as a scorer are ignorant.

[catch24]

Look no further than ISH's own Kblaze.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAaaWpt3qDc

does that look clumsy to you.

-dropstep left at 2:27
-3:28 hookshot
-dropstep baseline finish on opposite side -3:30
-fadeaway bankshot at 4:00
-fadeaway to the middle at 4:26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLrMw3vvhQw&feature=fvwrel

-up and under :08
-
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T2Z4en6i9MM&feature=related

-pass at :44(much more touch and feel than Dwight has shown as a passer)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3Zlnwmtf3Q&feature=related

-pass at 2:02(quick read with ample touch)

Excellent footage and great mini-breakdowns of each move. That pass at :44 was really nice.

[Sarcastic]

Some player's offensive skills translate better era-to-era than others. Kareem had maybe the best touch of any center within 10 feet of the basket, had the most unstoppable shot in history that will go in no matter who the competition, his skills are timeless, that's part of the reason he is so great.

Past prime Wilt Chamberlain blocked that unstoppable shot repeatedly.

[Blue&Orange]

Everyone states how Jordan was rusty after just one year off, but somehow taking Wilt from the 60's directly to a modern NBA game seems fair and intelligent.

[IGOTGAME]

Excellent footage and great mini-breakdowns of each move. That pass at :44 was really nice.

thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak&feature=fvsr

just found this video. Has a ton of great Wilt footage. If someone watches this video and thinks Dwight is a better post player than Wilt then they are crazy. Wilt is also 100 times the passer Dwight is. LOL at saying that Wilt would have trouble with the double teams when Dwight is considered the best big man in the league today. If Dwight can handle them then Wilt would more than fine..

I don't really see how someone could say that prime Wilt isn't a top 5 player in this league today. You would have a much better argument for saying he would be the best player in the league.

[magnax1]

thanks.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak&feature=fvsr

just found this video. Has a ton of great Wilt footage. If someone watches this video and thinks Dwight is a better post player than Wilt then they are crazy.
Who said that? lol

[Sarcastic]

Who said that? lol

Haters with an agenda.

[DirkNowitzki41]

5.1 pts/3.2 boards/0.3 assists/1.3 blocks

[jlauber]

Too bad YouTube removed much of his early footage...but I GUARANTEE you he was hitting 15 ft. JUMP SHOTS (right at the FT line), SWEEPING HOOKS shots, and a deadly 15 ft BANK SHOT. he also had a LIGHTENING QUICK TURN-AROUND shot 10-15 ft in the lane..and in either direction. There was even footage of him LEADING a fastbreak, and finishing it with a behind-the-back pass for a layup.

As Fatal9's NONSENSICAL post about Wilt's EFFICIENCY. First of all, Wilt has the TWO HIGHEST FG% SEASONS in NBA HISTORY. And screw that STUPID TS% stat. Chamberlain averaged 24.1 ppg on .683 shooting...as well as a staggering .727 mark in '73. Not only that, but he was LIGHT YEARS ahead of his peers...including Fatal's West. Chamberlain also had the THREE highest "perfect games" in NBA HISTORY (15-15, 16-16, and 18-18) all of which came in his '67 season when ShaqAttack was not impressed with his play. No other player ever DOMINATED a league like Chamberlain did that season. OFFENSIVELY, REBOUNDING, and DEFENSIVELY. And he was a galaxy ahead of ANY other CENTER in NBA HISTORY in PASSING the ball (7.8 apg.) He almost averaged a TRIPLE-DOUBLE in the post-season (22-29-9...on .579 shooting...and while holding Russell to .358 shooting, and Thurmond to .343 shooting...and CRUSHING both of them on the glass.) And he DID average a TRIPLE-DOUBLE against RUSSELL that post-season (22-32-10 on .556 shooting.) And keep in mind that Wilt was shooting, on AVERAGE, 100 points over the LEAGUE AVERAGE. The idiotic Fatal9 likes to say just how "inefficient" Wilt was. How about this...in his '66 season, he averaged 33.5 ppg on .540 shooting in a league that shot .433. Now, give one season in which Hakeem did either. And, Chamberlain's '63 season was 44.8 ppg on .528 shooting. Hakeem and David Robinson had very few seasons over that .528 (in MUCH higher shooting leagues), and they both were under 30 ppg (DRob's best scoring season was 29.2 ppg on .507 shooting.)

Fatal and Shaq's boy Bird was a better FT shooter...so what??? Chamberlain MADE 2000 MORE FTs in his career than Bird did in his. Chamberlain was also getting FAR MORE "and-one's", as well as getting his opposing center(s) and other opposing players in FOUL TROUBLE. Not only that, but Chamberlain got his teammates to line and in the bonus much earlier than anyone else who has ever played the game, either. And early in his career he was actually quite decent (.613 in 61-62.) And how about this? Chamberlain has the second highest single season mark for FT's MADE, in NBA HISTORY (and even ahead of Jordan's BEST season.)

Now, as for Kareem being a better SCORER than Wilt...again...just LAUGHABLE. This is ALL you need to know. In Chamberlain's 68-69 season, at considerably past his "scoring peak" Wilt hung games of 60 points on 6-10 Connie Dierking, and 66 on 6-11 Jim Fox (on 29-35 shooting.) This was from a Wilt who didn't even TRY to lead the league in scoring. BTW, BOTH games were league highs (and he had the league HIGH EVERY season in the decade of the 60's BTW.) Now, why were those two games important? Because Kareem came into the league the very next year...and faced both of guys for several seasons. He never came CLOSE to scoring 60 on either (and his career high was 55 points BTW.) Then, think about this...Wilt had THREE 50+ games against HOFer Willis Reed in his career, with a HIGH game of 58. And keep in mind that Reed was voted first team all-defense in his career. And as Psileas pointed out, Chamberlain had SEASONS of 55 ppg on 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy. But, it gets better...Wilt had THREE 60+ point games on Bellamy, including a HIGH game of 73. And he faced those guys in their PRIMES. Kareem faced those two guys MANY times, and NEVER approached scoring games like that. And, as well know by now...Kareem's HIGH game against Nate Thurmond was 34 points...in some 50+ H2H games. In the few games in which a PRIME "scoring" Wilt faced Thurmond, he hung SEVERAL 30+ point games on him, including a game in which he outscored Thurmond, 45-13. Why couldn't Kareem SCORE on those GREAT defensive players like a PRIME Chamberlain??? And finally, Kareem never faced Russell, nor a PRIME Russell. Given how poorly Kareem played against Thurmond in his CAREER, I suspect that Kareem would have struggled against Russell, too. Yet, a PRIME Chamberlain had 24 40+ point games against Russell, and FIVE 50+ point games on him,...including a HIGH game of 62 (on 27-45 shooting.)

Nor did Kareem ever come CLOSE to Wilt's peak "efficiency" either...even in playing in the defenseless 80's. I have always maintained that a '67 Chamberlain would have averaged about 25-30 ppg on over 70% shooting in the mid-80's. Those ENTIRE leagues were shooting nearly 50% (even 31-51 TEAMS were shooting over 50%.) How come Kareem only had ONE 60% season (and in a league that shot nearly 50%)?

And how about this interesting stat...Shaq, Hakeem, and Kareem won a TOTAL of THREE rebounding titles, in a COMBINED 57 seasons! Chamberlain won ELEVEN in his FOURTEEN seasons (and would have run away with the title in '70 had he not been injured.) Kareem played in the Wilt-era for FOUR seasons, and never came close to challenging Wilt for a rebounding title (and was brutalized by an aging Wilt on the glass, too.) My god, in Wilt's LAST season, he averaged 18.6 rpg (and Kareem was well behind at 16.1 rpg.) That 18.6 rpg was Wilt's second WORST season...and there has only been ONE season, SINCE that was better,,,and it was Rodman's 18.7 rpg. Then, think about this. In Wilt's LAST post-season, and covering 17 games...he averaged 22.5 rpg...which is the LAST time ANY player ever averaged 20+ rpg in the post-season. In fact, it was MILES ahead of the next best mark...Kareem's 17.3 rpg in the '77 post-season.

DEFENSE? Kareem shot .559 over the course of his career. In 28 H2H games against Chamberlain, he shot .464...including .434 over their last ten H2H games. Not only that, but that was a Wilt inthe TWI-LIGHT of his career, and playing on a surgically repaired knee. And, BTW, Wilt was knocking 4-5 skyhooks, per game, out of the gym. Walt Bellamy shot .541 in the '68 regular season. In the playoffs against Wilt that season... .421. Bill Russell shot a career high .467 in the '60 season. In 11 H2H games against Wilt that season... .398. In the '67 season, Russell shot .454. Against Wilt in the ECF's that season... .358. Wilt and Thurmond faced each other in THREE post-seasons. Wilt shot well over 50% against Thurmond in all three, with a high of .560...while Nate never shot better than .398, and with a low of .343. The FACT was, Wilt was arguably the second greatest defensive PLAYER in NBA HISTORY (and, at his PEAK, right there with Russell.)

PASSING? Wilt LED the NBA in assists one season, and came in third in another. His 8.3 and 7.8 apg seasons are nearly THREE apg better than ANY other center who has ever played the game.

Wilt DOMINATED many of the SAME players that Kareem faced...and Kareem was nowhere near as dominant as a PRIME Chamberlain.

SCORING, REBOUNDING, PASSING, DEFENSE, and EFFICIENCY. No other player was as DOMINANT.

[IGOTGAME]

Too bad YouTube removed much of his early footage...but I GUARANTEE you he was hitting 15 ft. JUMP SHOTS (right at the FT line), SWEEPING HOOKS shots, and a deadly 15 ft BANK SHOT. he also had a LIGHTENING QUICK TURN-AROUND shot 10-15 ft in the lane..and in either direction. There was even footage of him LEADING a fastbreak, and finishing it with a behind-the-back pass for a layup.
.

that stuff is still on there. look at the last video I posted. there used to be a whole channel devoted to wilt though.

[KingBeasley08]

Ryan hollins. Tyson Chandler if he improves his work ethic
javale mcgee would be his ceiling

[jlauber]

that stuff is still on there. look at the last video I posted. there used to be a whole channel devoted to wilt though.

Great stuff. I have seen it many times, as well as perhaps another 20 outstanding videos that WiltatKansas had posted on YouTube. There was one (it may be back now) about Wilt's shot-blocking, and in that video there are several blocks on Kareem's "unblockable" sky-hook...including two within a seconds of each. Incidently in Wilt's era, the NBA used to center-jump at the start of every quarter. I believe in Rosen's book, he mentions that Chick Hearn claimed that Wilt won about 80% of the jump-balls. And I seldom recall a young Kareem ever outjumping a much-older Wilt. (BTW, Sonny Hill claims that Wilt touched the top of the backboard...and even Kareem admitted he never came close to that feat.)

The ONLY area in which Kareem held an advantage over Chamberlain in terms of skills, was in FT shooting. BUT, Kareem averaged 335 FTs made per season in his 20 year career...while Wilt averaged 432 MADE per season in his 14 season career (and he was making as many as 835 in one of them.) Wilt was MUCH more dominant scorer, rebounding, defender, passer, and a FAR more efficient shooter (keep in mind that Kareem played half of his career in the decade of the 80's, which was at about .485 for the entire decade. Wilt played for 14 seasons in leagues that ranged from .410 to .456 (and Wilt outshot Kareem by as much as 150 points in a season their four seasons together. Kareem was NOWHERE near the player Wilt was.

[OldSchoolBBall]

In his prime today, he'd post 26.5-28.0 pts/13+ reb/3.5 blk/55+% FG. If this were before zone (1990-2004), he'd average 30+ ppg.

[DMAVS41]

In his prime today, he'd post 26.5-28.0 pts/13+ reb/3.5 blk/55+% FG. If this were before zone (1990-2004), he'd average 30+ ppg.

Sounds about right.

[jlauber]

BTW, some of the worst trash posted on this site is Wilt's supposed "decline" in the post-season. A PRIME "scoring" Chamberlain AVERAGED 34 ppg and 27 rpg on .510 FG% (in leagues that averaged about .430 .) And a Chamberlain in his first nine seasons averaged 29.3 ppg, 26.6 rpg, 4.8 apg, and shot .518 (again, in leagues around .430 on average.)

Keep in mind that a "scoring" Wilt only played 52 games out of his 160 (and his team was so pathetic in '63 that he did not play in the post-season...in a year in which he averaged 45 ppg on .530 shooting.)

Wilt had FOUR 50+ point games in the post-season, including an incredible 50-35 game against Russell in a "elimination" game five of the '60 ECF's...and a staggering 56-35 game in a game five of a best-of-five series (both WINS BTW.) He had MULTIPLE 40-30 games in the post-season, as well, including FOUR against Russell. And a 30-30 game was COMMON in those post-seasons, as well. Hell, in the '65 ECF's, Wilt took a 40-40 team to a game seven, one point loss against the HOF-laden (6-2 edge) 62-18 Celtics...including a game seven of 30 points, on 12-15 FGAs, with 32 rebounds (and the Sixers last six points too.) In fact, in that SERIES, he AVERAGED 30 ppg and 31 rpg.

He also had FOUR entire post-seasons of 33.2 to 37.0 ppg. And he had THREE playoff series of 37 ppg, 37 ppg, and 39 ppg (and was way over 20+ rpg in each.) He even had FOUR 30+ ppg post-season series against RUSSELL (and once again, even one of 30-31.)

Even when he cut back, he was still hanging HUGE games. The clinching game five of the '67 ECF's (and against Russell... 29 points, 10-16 shooting, 36 rebounds, 13 assists, and 7 blocks.) Or a 45-27 "elimination" game six of the '70 Finals (on 20-27 shooting.) Or a title clinching 24 point, 10-14 shooting, 29 rebound, 9 block game in the '72 Finals (at age 35...which led to the Finals MVP.)

He had a 28.0 ppg, 26.5 rpg, 11.0 apg, .612 series against the Royals in '67. In that same post-season, and against RUSSELL, he AVERAGED a TRIPLE-DOUBLE, at 22 ppg, 32 rpg, 10 apg, and on .556 shooting...including a 41 rebound game three, and a 24-32-13-12 QUAD-DOUBLE game one.

In the twilight of his career, he battled a PRIME Kareem to a complete statistical draw in the '71 WCF's...and then, by virtually every account, he outplayed him in the '72 WCF's, when Kareem shot .457 (and only .414 in the last four pivotal games...and with Wilt blocking 4-5 skyhooks per game), including a DOMINATING game clinching game six performance on the road.

And, he had the ONLY 20-20 .600 Finals in NBA HISTORY...and on ONE-LEG in the '70 Finals, with a 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, and .625 FG% in a seven game series.

He battled HOFer 6-11 Nate Thurmond in THREE playoff series, badly outrebounding him in all (including a whopping 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg margin in Wilt's LAST post-season)...shooting over 50% in all three (with a high of .560), and holding Nate to under .398 in all three (with a low of .343.)

He was seldom outscored in a post-season series, was only outshot in ONE (and Kareem MISSED 107 shots to Wilt's 20 misses); and was NEVER outrebounded in 29 post-season series.

In his NINE game seven's, he was never outscored, outrebounded, or outshot in ANY of them...and he averaged 24.4 ppg, 26.3 rpg, and shot .626 from the field (which is the highest game seven FG% by ANY "great" player.)

THAT was the "declining" Wilt in the post-season.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Look no further than ISH's own Kblaze.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cAaaWpt3qDc

does that look clumsy to you.

-dropstep left at 2:27
-3:28 hookshot
-dropstep baseline finish on opposite side -3:30
-fadeaway bankshot at 4:00
-fadeaway to the middle at 4:26

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLrMw3vvhQw&feature=fvwrel

-up and under :08

Why are you posting his passes and comparing them to Dwight? I already said Wilt was a great passer.

Is that move at 2:27 really supposed to be impressive? Very basic and because of the gamble all he had to do was turn and he had an easy basket.

The hook at 3:28 is a perfect example of why the league shooting percentages were so low back then. And how many of those hooks did you see him make? I certainly haven't seen enough footage of Wilt shooting hooks to call it a regular move for him.

Up and under was pretty nice, but how do the fadeaways or that hook show impressive footwork?

Is this really supposed to impress me?


In his prime today, he'd post 26.5-28.0 pts/13+ reb/3.5 blk/55+% FG. If this were before zone (1990-2004), he'd average 30+ ppg.

Zone was legalized prior to the 2001-2002 season.

[IGOTGAME]

Why are you posting his passes and comparing them to Dwight? I already said Wilt was a great passer.

Is that move at 2:27 really supposed to be impressive? Very basic and because of the gamble all he had to do was turn and he had an easy basket.

The hook at 3:28 is a perfect example of why the league shooting percentages were so low back then. And how many of those hooks did you see him make? I certainly haven't seen enough footage of Wilt shooting hooks to call it a regular move for him.

Up and under was pretty nice, but how do the fadeaways or that hook show impressive footwork?

Is this really supposed to impress me?

did you watch the other video as well.

yes. It was impressive if you understand the nuances of the post game. If you can see little things about Wilt, how he wins the battle of the top foot which is what set up a lot of his flip shots. I bet a lot of people are like he is putting the ball right in there face why don't they just block it...truth is they couldn't. And if Kareem was blocking it than I don't think Bynum or Spencer Hawes or Kendrick Perkins is.

Wilt has shown way more feel and ability to play in the post than Dwight Howard who after countless tutorials still has a rudimentary understanding of how to play in the post.


edit: lol at people thinking footwork is just fancy moves. I feel like the old heads talking boxing. I'm not saying Wilt is the GOAT in the post or anything. I am saying he is better than Dwight Howard and would be the best post scoring center in the NBA today.

[Bring-Your-Js]

Wilt looks great

[jlip]

A '63 or '64 version of Wilt if placed into last season would possibly struggle initially with adjusting to the different rules much as Duncan did during FIBA play in '04. By Wilt's 2nd season after he's had a chance to become acclimated to the rules of today's game I'm convinced that he would easily be the best center in the league competing for both MVP and DPOY.

[ShaqAttack3234]

did you watch the other video as well.

yes. It was impressive if you understand the nuances of the post game. If you can see little things about Wilt, how he wins the battle of the top foot which is what set up a lot of his flip shots. I bet a lot of people are like he is putting the ball right in there face why don't they just block it...truth is they couldn't. And if Kareem was blocking it than I don't think Bynum or Spencer Hawes or Kendrick Perkins is.

Wilt has shown way more feel and ability to play in the post than Dwight Howard who after countless tutorials still has a rudimentary understanding of how to play in the post.


edit: lol at people thinking footwork is just fancy moves. I feel like the old heads talking boxing. I'm not saying Wilt is the GOAT in the post or anything. I am saying he is better than Dwight Howard and would be the best post scoring center in the NBA today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJjBDUhbBcs

0:44 is an example of what I'm talking about. He looks horrible in the post there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHXG3koetzA&feature=related

2:08 shows why exposing the ball is not a good idea and Nate Thurmond also said he blocked that finger roll a lot.

In general in that half, he was 0 for 5 on post moves and in the game footage I've seen has one of the bad habits that Dwight does which is bringing the ball down low.

Keep in mind that he was consistently guarded with single coverage in that half by a man 4 inches shorter than him and at least 50 pounds lighter.

[Micku]

I dunno. Hard to say how he would do exactly.

He'll mostly likely will do good on physical attributes alone. He'll still be a great blocker, and probably will lead the league in block shots. He also will be the best passing big guy.

But there are things that Wilt does that are kind'a ugly, like dribbling in the post. I don't like how he dribbles and every time I watch it, I feel like they can steal the ball away. I guess it doesn't really matter since he is a center and assuming the spacing is right.

In terms of post moves, from what I seen, he doesn't use his strength like Shaq and bully his way to the basket. But has other moves to his arsenal like the finger roll, hooks, and the fadeaway shots with the banks. He doesn't have the footwork as like Mchale or something, but his height and strength makes it difficult.

But yeah, Wilt will be the best center to me. I dunno what his numbers would be, it depends on the amount of shots he'll take. I'm guessing around 26-28 ppg with a high rebound rate. He could score more if he wanted to, but it depends on the team he is on.

[IGOTGAME]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jJjBDUhbBcs

0:44 is an example of what I'm talking about. He looks horrible in the post there.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OHXG3koetzA&feature=related

2:08 shows why exposing the ball is not a good idea and Nate Thurmond also said he blocked that finger roll a lot.

In general in that half, he was 0 for 5 on post moves and in the game footage I've seen has one of the bad habits that Dwight does which is bringing the ball down low.

Keep in mind that he was consistently guarded with single coverage in that half by a man 4 inches shorter than him and at least 50 pounds lighter.

I will watch the rest of the vids later. good look. but that move that Russel blocked was a good move but that was AMAZING defense. 99% of the NBA cannot make that play.

No matter what era Wilt plays in people are gonna be 4 inches shorter and 50 pounds lighter. The guy is 7"2 and a beast.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Zone was legalized prior to the 2001-2002 season.

It was barely used until the 2005 season, though. Even today it's comparatively rare, but it was virtually nonexistent until 2005.

[ShaqAttack3234]

It was barely used until the 2005 season, though. Even today it's comparatively rare, but it was virtually nonexistent until 2005.

Yeah, but I don't think just playing an actual zone is what would limit a center today as much because playing a legit zone as you said is fairly rare, but more the elimination of the illegal defense rules in general which came into play earlier.

[pete's montreux]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Tommy Heinsohn said last season that Denver is the only team in the league that ever runs a true zone on a semi-consistent basis. I specifically remember him saying that. He also said even only a few teams run zone at all and most of the time It's not a true zone.

[ThaRegul8r]

And no, don't anyone come up with the "no, no, what would he do if you immediately planted him right before the start of a game and told him to play and after that single game transported him back to the past?" type of question. Means nothing.

You know... what the hell does this "time machine" argument mean anyway? It's like people don't even think. You're going to put someone in a time machine to play basketball? Let's just use some thought here for a moment.

Imagine if you were sent some 40 years into the future.

First, you'd be bewildered as to where and when you are, and all the societal changes that have taken place since the present you knew.

You'd have to spend some time getting up to date with everything that's happened since last you knew, to even be an informed citizen and be up-to-date with the world as it now is, which you know nothing about. You have to learn everything all over again.

Housing. Where do you live? Your house isn't your house anymore, if it even still exists. You have to find a place to stay, even though you now have no means of income, no current skills that would make you attractive to an employee, since you literally know absolutely nothing about any advances that have been made. You now have nothing in the bank, and for all you know, any cash you may have is now simply a collector's item from a bygone era.

How do you fit into a society that isn't your own? Everyone you know will be so different that there's practically different people, or dead. You can't very well go to them, since there's no explanation for why you look exactly the same as you did 40 years ago, and you'd sound like a lunatic if you said you were from the past.

It's like people don't even think. You'd have to undergo a massive acclimation just to survive if you were plucked from the now and transported into the future, yet people talk about time machining someone for the sole purpose of immediately putting them onto a court to play a basketball game.

:facepalm

[jlauber]

PHILA and I have been harping on this for well over a year now...but where are the HUNDREDS of Chamberlain's DOMINATING games on video????

There have only been a small handful of partial games of Chamberlain's career, and even those, were among his less-than-ordinary games. Where are his 32 60+ point games (including his SIX 70+ point games)? His 55 40-30 games? Or his 103 30-30 games? Or his 15 40+ rebound games? Or any of his 88 triple-double games...many of which were actually quad-doubles (since very few had his blocked shots recorded)? His 78-43 game? Or any one of his FOUR 50-40 games? His 24-32-13-12 game one of the '67 ECF's? His 41 rebound game in game three of that series? Or his clinching game five of that series (29-36-13-7)? Maybe one of those three highest "perfect" games (15-15, 16-16, or 18-18)? Maybe his double-triple-double game (22 points, 25 rebounds, 21 assists)? Or his 16-30-19 triple-double playoff game? Or as Psileas pointed out in another thread...his 53-32-14 game (on 24-29 shooting)? Or his 66 point game on 29-35 shooting? Or his RECORDED 23 block game in 1968? Or one of his FOUR 50+ point playoff games? Or his 55 rebound game against Russell, whom he outrebounded, 55-19?

If we had even a handful of those games...I am convinced that he would be held in a MUCH higher regard than what he is now.

[millwad]

PHILA and I have been harping on this for well over a year now...but where are the HUNDREDS of Chamberlain's DOMINATING games on video????

There have only been a small handful of partial games of Chamberlain's career, and even those, were among his less-than-ordinary games. Where are his 32 60+ point games (including his SIX 70+ point games)? His 55 40-30 games? Or his 103 30-30 games? Or his 15 40+ rebound games? Or any of his 88 triple-double games...many of which were actually quad-doubles (since very few had his blocked shots recorded)? His 78-43 game? Or any one of his FOUR 50-40 games? His 24-32-13-12 game one of the '67 ECF's? His 41 rebound game in game three of that series? Or his clinching game five of that series (29-36-13-7)? Maybe one of those three highest "perfect" games (15-15, 16-16, or 18-18)? Maybe his double-triple-double game (22 points, 25 rebounds, 21 assists)? Or his 16-30-19 triple-double playoff game? Or as Psileas pointed out in another thread...his 53-32-14 game (on 24-29 shooting)? Or his 66 point game on 29-35 shooting? Or his RECORDED 23 block game in 1968? Or one of his FOUR 50+ point playoff games? Or his 55 rebound game against Russell, whom he outrebounded, 55-19?

If we had even a handful of those games...I am convinced that he would be held in a MUCH higher regard than what he is now.

That's the thing, those doesn't exist and most of us don't rank basketball playerx after things we haven't seen. The footage I've seen of Wilt is amazing for his era, but only an idiot would claim that he'd be just as dominant today..

[28renyoy]

PHILA and I

implying you're not PHILA

[1Time4YourMind]

I can use that logic to say Mikan would dominate today. Mikan retired a season before Russell entered the league who faced Wilt who faced Kareem who faced Hakeem who would be the best C in the league today. Some players would be more hurt than the other, and Wilt IMO is one of them specifically when it comes to scoring (though rebounding/defense he'd be dominant).
obviously nitpicking here cuz the rest of your post makes sense but you cant use mikan as a case. the guy played in the pre-shot clock area, the game was a lot slower, less athletic, played more like a hockey match at times than basketball.

i would only use russell as the earliest good case for "center x faced center y faced center z who plays today which means center x can play today" theory. any guy who dominated in an era where the lane was six feet wide is a guy i'm not going to take seriously.

[Papaya Petee]

30-35 ppg, 17-20 rpg, .600+ FG% (especially against these clowns they call "centers"), 4+ apg, and 6 bpg. And all of that would be BEFORE all of the advantages of modern technology, medicine, nutrition, coaching, "supplements", and conditioning.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

No, not at all. Not even close.

24\15\3 on 55%

[JohnnySic]

He would be quite good. He is bigger than any of the good centers currently, for one thing.

[Sarcastic]

That's the thing, those doesn't exist and most of us don't rank basketball playerx after things we haven't seen. The footage I've seen of Wilt is amazing for his era, but only an idiot would claim that he'd be just as dominant today..

Not too many people alive have ever seen Babe Ruth play baseball yet he is ranked as the all time greatest.

Most people have not seen Jim Brown play football yet he is usually ranked as perhaps the best football player ever.

Most people have not seen Gordie Howe play hockey yet he is ranked as an all time great behind Gretzky. Heck most people haven't watched Gretzky play yet would anyone say he is not the GOAT?

[Crown&Coke]

He aint dropping 100, but 27/13 is not far fetched for about a 10-12 year span if he can buy into the coaching today. He got coaches canned all the time. But one thing is for certain, his "never fouling out of a game" would not last in todays game, even if he stops playing defense after he gets his 4th foul.

But if they tries the whole foul the other team in a blow out to get the ball back technique, Wilt would get hacked worse than Shaq+Howard combined.

Wilt was a monster, too bad his me first mentality shed in his early 30's instead of mid 20's, he could have boasted a few more rings. Wilt was well ahead of his time, you could drop him in todays game and he would thrive.

[Pointguard]

Rebounding is determination, grit, energy, boxing out fundamentals and a good sense for the ball. Wilt had that along with leaping ability, tenacity and height. Wilt would be a top rebounder in any era. I think back then they had more bruisers who took their job dead serious than they have in today

[Pointguard]

So now we are talking scoring. Chamberlain is a natural scorer

[Crown&Coke]

^ good posts

Wilt came up in an era where big black athletes caught a bad rap for everything. So imagine him coming up today? I wonder if he would have all the tattoos and all? He would be an awesome interview today.

[Pointguard]

Wilt's foot movement shouldn't be up for debate. He was high jumper, discus thrower and a triple jump competitor. He paid moreso to proper foot movement than most because of this. You can't do any of those events without great footwork.

Wilt blocked a lot of shots and put back a lot of offense rebounds all the while contending for position. Up and undershots also require good foot movement. A lot of people can't do finger rolls and dips in a game because of foot movement and lower body coordination. Wilt also shot a fadeaway jump shot as well (foot movement in reverse). Wilt had totally advanced the science of foot movement. And I have no doubt he could have learned more if scouts were up on it.

[Pointguard]

^ good posts

Wilt came up in an era where big black athletes caught a bad rap for everything. So imagine him coming up today? I wonder if he would have all the tattoos and all? He would be an awesome interview today.

I really like some of Wilt's interviews about life in his later years. He had that AI honesty/hardcore reality check thing going on. In today's times he wouldn't have caught a lot of what he got back then. The biggest wonder is if he would have more of a ruthless abandon in his play. He was way too far a head of his time and he slowed down a bit and played a finesse game to prove he could do the game on their level. They made rules to slow him down and psychologically got to him. Its amazing when you look at his records and realize that he inhibited his biggest strength - strength itself.

[millwad]

I think Wilt would need to get himself a shooting coach so his free throws wouldn't look like this? HAHA!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITxDdnzpnU8

[Human Error]

If you put a prime Wilt in today's NBA games he'd look like a very very poor man's DeAndre Jordan. Players over the time have got physically so much better, it's like you put the '60s olympic winning sprinter in a today's 100m dash and expect to dominate the likes of Usain Bolt and Tyson Gay when at that the world record was like 10.2 seconds.

[BigBalla44]

If you put a prime Wilt in today's NBA games he'd look like a very very poor man's DeAndre Jordan. Players over the time have got physically so much better, it's like you put the '60s olympic winning sprinter in a today's 100m dash and expect to dominate the likes of Usain Bolt and Tyson Gay when at that the world record was like 10.2 seconds.

I know. So many centers in today's NBA can bench over 400+ lbs easily. I imagine Yao did it with one hand on regular basis. Its like taking Deion Sanders from the early 90's with his 4.2 sec 40-yard dash and putting him against current NFL defensive backs who run a 4.5.

[Kblaze8855]

It is nothing the least bit like sprinting. At all. In any way.

[jlauber]

I know. So many centers in today's NBA can bench over 400+ lbs easily. I imagine Yao did it with one hand on regular basis. Its like taking Deion Sanders from the early 90's with his 4.2 sec 40-yard dash and putting him against current NFL defensive backs who run a 4.5.

Or Bo Jackson in the '85 NFL combine running a 4.12. Or Darrell Green running a 4.15 in the 80's...and a 4.41 just a couple a months ago...at age 50. Or Bob Hayes running a 10.0 meters in '64 (with much worse shoes and surfaces)...which would be faster than ANY other NFL player ever...and would have BLOWN Chris Johnson's 10.32 away.

SI ran an article on Wilt in 1964, and he was already benching 425 lbs back then. Of course, he became MUCH bigger and MUCH stronger as the years went by. Those claims of 500+ are PLASTERED all over the internet...and there was an EYE-WITNESS account of Chamberlain benching 465 lbs...at age 59.

[jlauber]

I think Wilt would need to get himself a shooting coach so his free throws wouldn't look like this? HAHA!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITxDdnzpnU8

Interesting...Wilt is currently ranked 17th All-Time...in FT's MADE. Think about that...he MADE 2000 FTs MORE than Bird did in his career, and Bird played one less season. Wilt also made FAR more FTs than Hakeem (nearly 600 more)...who played four more seasons. Chamberlain also MADE 835 FTs in 1962...which is higher than any season by MJ, Bird, Barry, Oscar, ...in fact, there has only been ONE other player, in ONE season, who MADE more (Jerry West with 840 in 1965.) BTW, how many other players have made 28 FTs in a game?

Not too shabby for one of the WORST FT shooters of all-time. And for those idiots that claimed that Wilt did not have 15+ ft range...based on his poor FT shooting,...how about this...Bruce Bowen LED the NBA in 3pt% in 2003 at .441...and he shot .404 from the FT line. Wilt actually shot his FT's better from nearly 18 ft. than he did from 15 ft.

[Draz]

Poor mans Mozgov.

[knickswin]

he'd be some stiff on the bench

[jlauber]

That's the thing, those doesn't exist and most of us don't rank basketball playerx after things we haven't seen. The footage I've seen of Wilt is amazing for his era, but only an idiot would claim that he'd be just as dominant today..

BEFORE Chamberlain arrived in the 59-60 season, the NBA scoring record was 29.2 ppg. The rebounding record was 23.0 (by Russell...more on him later), and the FG% record was .490.

AFTER Wilt retired following the 72-73 season, the greatest scoring season has been 37.1 ppg. BUT, take Wilt out of the equation, and that 37.1 ppg would STILL be the scoring record. Rick Barry's 35.6 ppg in '67 was the non-Wilt record DURING Chamberlain's 14 seasons. Next highest was Kareem's 34.8 in '72, Baylor's 34.8 ppg in '61, Baylor's 34.0 in '63, and Archibald's 34.0 ppg in '73. Then it goes down to Kareem's 31.7 in '71, Bellamy's 31.6 in '62, and Oscar's 31.4 in '62. So, I get a kick out of those that claim that Wilt's era's numbers were "inflated." Where are all the 36-40 ppg seasons then?

Of course, Wilt also SHATTERED the rebounding records, and had the THREE highest rebounding seasons in NBA history. But, Russell was the second greatest rebounder of all-time, and he, like Wilt, had a TON of 20 rpg seasons (as well as staggering post-season rebounding seasons...something that Rodman SHRUNK in BTW.) Now, take BOTH Wilt and Russell out of the equation, and there have been a TOTAL of FOUR 20 rpg seasons, two by Jerry Lucas, and one each by Nate Thurmond and Bob Pettit. And, if you remove Wilt and Russell...the NBA record would be 21.3 rpg (Thurmond in '67...who was WAY behind Chamberlain's 24.2 rpg that season BTW.) As a sidenote, the 6-8 Lucas would nearly be a CLONE of the 6-9 Kevin Love. Both are/were tenacious rebounders, and as much range as Love has, Lucas was probably even deeper, and even more accurate.

Continuing on rebounding...

In Wilt's LAST season, he LED the NBA in rebounding at 18.6 rpg (in a league that averaged 51.6 rpg.) There has only been ONE season, since, that was better (Rodman's 18.7 in '92.) Then, in Wilt's LAST post-season, covering 17 games, he averaged 22.5 rpg (again, in a league that averaged 51.6 rpg)...which would be the LAST time a player ever averaged 20+ rpg in the post-season. Not only that, but the next highest post-season was Kareem's 17.3 rpg in the '77 playoffs. And that was a 36 year-old Wilt, who was playing on a surgically repaired knee, too (and it was his second WORST season of all-time.)

In any case, take Russell and Wilt out of the equation...and where are all the 22 rpg seasons? There simply aren't ANY.


Once again, BEFORE Chamberlain, the NBA record for FG% was .490. Take Wilt out of the Wilt-era, and there were maybe 15-20 50% seasons in his 14 years...COMBINED. In the decade of the 60's, if you remove Wilt...the record would have been Lucas' .551 in '69. And the record during Chamberlain's entire 14 seasons would have been Johnny Green's .587 in '72. Yet, Wilt had nearly as many 50+% seasons, 13, as the ENTIRE NBA...COMBINED... in his 14 seasons.

Of course, Wilt also had THREE 60+% seasons...and NO ONE else in the Chamberlain-era (and before) had ANY. Not only that, but he outshot ENTIRE league's by margins of .244 in '67 and .271 in '73. And it wasn't until Kareem's .604 in '80 (in a league that shot .486 BTW...and MUCH higher than ANY of Wilt's era), that anyone else would get to 60%. Wilt also won a FG% title in '67 by a record-margin of .162 (.683 to Bellamy's .521), and his .157 margin in '73 is the ONLY other time a player has won by more than a 100 points. Here again...LIGHT YEARS ahead of not only HIS peers...but his .727 and .683 seasons are STILL the TOP-2 all-time. And one can only imagine what kind of FG%'s Chamberlain would have recorded in the "defenseless" 80's, when ENTIRE LEAGUES were shooting .492 (and on average about .485), with TEAM's shooting as high as .545. Take Wilt's '73 season, and move it into '85, and it would have approached .800!

BTW, here are some other interesting facts. Wilt had THREE 60+ point games in '68 and '69 (60, 66, and 68...and the 66 point game came on 29-35 shooting, which is by far, the highest FG% in a 60 point game.) And two of those came in that '69 season, when the league averaged 112.3 ppg...which is only a couple of points more than MJ's '87, and only about 12 ppg better than 2011. BUT, Wilt also averaged 17 and 14 FGAs per game in those two seasons, too. He had SIX games of 50+ points in those two seasons, too. Here was a Wilt who had no desire to score...and STILL hanging 52-68 point games in those years.

And keep in mind that Kareem came into the league the very next season (69-70), and he faced MANY of the players that Wilt had and would continue to face. Kareem's CAREER HIGH... 55 points. And, as I have posted many times, Chamberlain plastered a PRIME Willis Reed (who was voted first team all-defense in his career), with THREE 50+ point games, including a high of 58. He POUNDED Ta PRIME hurmond in their limited H2H games in Wilt's "secoring" seasons, with several in the 30's, and one game in which he murdered him, 45-13. And then there was 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy...whom Chamberlain shredded in THREE games (and this was a PRIME Bellamy) of 60+, including a HIGH of 73. Now, Kareem faced all of those guys MANY times, and they were all past their prime...and he never came close to those games against them. In fact, his HIGH game against Thurmond, in some 50+ H2H meetings, was 34 points. Why? Why couldn't Kareem dump 60-70 point games on not just those GREAT players, but even the MANY other centers that Wilt poured in 60+ against 32 times?

Chamberlain also has 103 of the entire NBA TOTAL of 131 30-30 games (Thurmond is next with FOUR.) In fact, just in Wilt's '72 season, when he shot the ball about 9 times per game, he STILL had TWO 30-30 games (including a 31-32 game against 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier.) So what you ask? Well Kareem played in the Wilt-era for four seasons...and he never accomplished it even once. In fact, Kareem only achieved a 30-30 game ONE time in his entire 20 year career, and it came long after Chamberlain had retired. Here again...why? If Kareem were truly the more gifted, or dominant player...why couldn't he duplicate Chamberlain's OVERWHELMING dominance...and against MANY of the same players that Chamberlain just DESTROYED?

So, let's put an end to this complete MYTH that the stats in Chamberlain's era were significantly inflated. First of all, even in the highest scoring seasons of the early 60's, the NBA only averaged 118.8 ppg. Secondly, Wilt was hanging MULTIPLE 60 point games late in his career, and in leagues that were only scoring 112 ppg (and in seasons in which he hardly even shot the ball.) CLEARLY, Chamberlain could have easily averaged 30+ ppg in even into the 1970 season. In fact, in that 69-70 season (Kareem's rookie year BTW), Wilt started out the season averaing 32.2 ppg in his first nine games (including a game in which he just buried Kareem in every facet of the game.) However, he shredded his knee in that ninth game (after he had just scored 33 points on 13-13 shooting), and his career was never the same again. But here was a Chamberlain, at well past his peak, on the way to yet another scoring title, and in his 11th season in the league.

The fact was, Wilt absolutely crushed his peers...players like Lovellette, Embry, Reed, Lucas, Bellamy, Unseld, Cowens, McAdoo, Lanier, Hayes, Thurmond, Russell, Kareem, and even Gilmore (in the '72 ABA-NBA all-star game)...ALL in the HOF. And many of them were great well into the late 70's. And, of course, we saw an old Kareem, who could barely get 6 rpg, just annihilating BOTH Hakeem and Ewing...players who were among the best centers of the 90's.

So, you had better ask yourself again...just how dominant would a PRIME Wilt be in TODAY's NBA, and against the GARBAGE centers that permeate the rosters of the league? And, how would a PRIME Chamberlain have fared against a Dwight, given the fact that Wilt was MUCH taller, MUCH bigger, MUCH stronger, probably faster, every bit as athletic, and with MORE skills and RANGE than Howard has? A Howard who just had a 23-14 .600 season. Which makes these ridiculous claims that a PRIME Wilt would be a 25-15 .550 guy...LAUGHABLE. Playing against the inept clods that are all over the CURRENT NBA...well, you get my point...

[KingBeasley08]

^ so basically, wilt was the best player in a crappy era?

:oldlol: Shaq could probably rip Wilt into two pieces

[jlauber]

^ so basically, wilt was the best player in a crappy era?

:oldlol: Shaq could probably rip Wilt into two pieces

Google their STRENGTH...and get back to me on that. Chamberlain, by most accounts was easily benching 500+ lbs.

[eliteballer]

Look, bottomline. Wilt played great 80's centers like Kareem and Gilmore and more than held his own.

BUT

When he played the NBA was considered bush league and basketball was a
2nd rate sport. The game has come SO far since then, in talent, skill development, training, coaching schemes and philosophy, scouting, etc. especially in the 70's when more blacks came into the pro ranks(a lot due to the ABA).

He would still be good, great maybe even considered how many stiffs there still are(and have always been) at the center position but he wouldnt dominate like he did back then. The competition just doesnt hold up.

[The-Legend-24]

BEFORE Chamberlain arrived in the 59-60 season, the NBA scoring record was 29.2 ppg. The rebounding record was 23.0 (by Russell...more on him later), and the FG% record was .490.

AFTER Wilt retired following the 72-73 season, the greatest scoring season has been 37.1 ppg. BUT, take Wilt out of the equation, and that 37.1 ppg would STILL be the scoring record. Rick Barry's 35.6 ppg in '67 was the non-Wilt record DURING Chamberlain's 14 seasons. Next highest was Kareem's 34.8 in '72, Baylor's 34.8 ppg in '61, Baylor's 34.0 in '63, and Archibald's 34.0 ppg in '73. Then it goes down to Kareem's 31.7 in '71, Bellamy's 31.6 in '62, and Oscar's 31.4 in '62. So, I get a kick out of those that claim that Wilt's era's numbers were "inflated." Where are all the 36-40 ppg seasons then?

Of course, Wilt also SHATTERED the rebounding records, and had the THREE highest rebounding seasons in NBA history. But, Russell was the second greatest rebounder of all-time, and he, like Wilt, had a TON of 20 rpg seasons (as well as staggering post-season rebounding seasons...something that Rodman SHRUNK in BTW.) Now, take BOTH Wilt and Russell out of the equation, and there have been a TOTAL of FOUR 20 rpg seasons, two by Jerry Lucas, and one each by Nate Thurmond and Bob Pettit. And, if you remove Wilt and Russell...the NBA record would be 21.3 rpg (Thurmond in '67...who was WAY behind Chamberlain's 24.2 rpg that season BTW.) As a sidenote, the 6-8 Lucas would nearly be a CLONE of the 6-9 Kevin Love. Both are/were tenacious rebounders, and as much range as Love has, Lucas was probably even deeper, and even more accurate.

Continuing on rebounding...

In Wilt's LAST season, he LED the NBA in rebounding at 18.6 rpg (in a league that averaged 51.6 rpg.) There has only been ONE season, since, that was better (Rodman's 18.7 in '92.) Then, in Wilt's LAST post-season, covering 17 games, he averaged 22.5 rpg (again, in a league that averaged 51.6 rpg)...which would be the LAST time a player ever averaged 20+ rpg in the post-season. Not only that, but the next highest post-season was Kareem's 17.3 rpg in the '77 playoffs. And that was a 36 year-old Wilt, who was playing on a surgically repaired knee, too (and it was his second WORST season of all-time.)

In any case, take Russell and Wilt out of the equation...and where are all the 22 rpg seasons? There simply aren't ANY.


Once again, BEFORE Chamberlain, the NBA record for FG% was .490. Take Wilt out of the Wilt-era, and there were maybe 15-20 50% seasons in his 14 years...COMBINED. In the decade of the 60's, if you remove Wilt...the record would have been Lucas' .551 in '69. And the record during Chamberlain's entire 14 seasons would have been Johnny Green's .587 in '72. Yet, Wilt had nearly as many 50+% seasons, 13, as the ENTIRE NBA...COMBINED... in his 14 seasons.

Of course, Wilt also had THREE 60+% seasons...and NO ONE else in the Chamberlain-era (and before) had ANY. Not only that, but he outshot ENTIRE league's by margins of .244 in '67 and .271 in '73. And it wasn't until Kareem's .604 in '80 (in a league that shot .486 BTW...and MUCH higher than ANY of Wilt's era), that anyone else would get to 60%. Wilt also won a FG% title in '67 by a record-margin of .162 (.683 to Bellamy's .521), and his .157 margin in '73 is the ONLY other time a player has won by more than a 100 points. Here again...LIGHT YEARS ahead of not only HIS peers...but his .727 and .683 seasons are STILL the TOP-2 all-time. And one can only imagine what kind of FG%'s Chamberlain would have recorded in the "defenseless" 80's, when ENTIRE LEAGUES were shooting .492 (and on average about .485), with TEAM's shooting as high as .545. Take Wilt's '73 season, and move it into '85, and it would have approached .800!

BTW, here are some other interesting facts. Wilt had THREE 60+ point games in '68 and '69 (60, 66, and 68...and the 66 point game came on 29-35 shooting, which is by far, the highest FG% in a 60 point game.) And two of those came in that '69 season, when the league averaged 112.3 ppg...which is only a couple of points more than MJ's '87, and only about 12 ppg better than 2011. BUT, Wilt also averaged 17 and 14 FGAs per game in those two seasons, too. He had SIX games of 50+ points in those two seasons, too. Here was a Wilt who had no desire to score...and STILL hanging 52-68 point games in those years.

And keep in mind that Kareem came into the league the very next season (69-70), and he faced MANY of the players that Wilt had and would continue to face. Kareem's CAREER HIGH... 55 points. And, as I have posted many times, Chamberlain plastered a PRIME Willis Reed (who was voted first team all-defense in his career), with THREE 50+ point games, including a high of 58. He POUNDED Ta PRIME hurmond in their limited H2H games in Wilt's "secoring" seasons, with several in the 30's, and one game in which he murdered him, 45-13. And then there was 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy...whom Chamberlain shredded in THREE games (and this was a PRIME Bellamy) of 60+, including a HIGH of 73. Now, Kareem faced all of those guys MANY times, and they were all past their prime...and he never came close to those games against them. In fact, his HIGH game against Thurmond, in some 50+ H2H meetings, was 34 points. Why? Why couldn't Kareem dump 60-70 point games on not just those GREAT players, but even the MANY other centers that Wilt poured in 60+ against 32 times?

Chamberlain also has 103 of the entire NBA TOTAL of 131 30-30 games (Thurmond is next with FOUR.) In fact, just in Wilt's '72 season, when he shot the ball about 9 times per game, he STILL had TWO 30-30 games (including a 31-32 game against 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier.) So what you ask? Well Kareem played in the Wilt-era for four seasons...and he never accomplished it even once. In fact, Kareem only achieved a 30-30 game ONE time in his entire 20 year career, and it came long after Chamberlain had retired. Here again...why? If Kareem were truly the more gifted, or dominant player...why couldn't he duplicate Chamberlain's OVERWHELMING dominance...and against MANY of the same players that Chamberlain just DESTROYED?

So, let's put an end to this complete MYTH that the stats in Chamberlain's era were significantly inflated. First of all, even in the highest scoring seasons of the early 60's, the NBA only averaged 118.8 ppg. Secondly, Wilt was hanging MULTIPLE 60 point games late in his career, and in leagues that were only scoring 112 ppg (and in seasons in which he hardly even shot the ball.) CLEARLY, Chamberlain could have easily averaged 30+ ppg in even into the 1970 season. In fact, in that 69-70 season (Kareem's rookie year BTW), Wilt started out the season averaing 32.2 ppg in his first nine games (including a game in which he just buried Kareem in every facet of the game.) However, he shredded his knee in that ninth game (after he had just scored 33 points on 13-13 shooting), and his career was never the same again. But here was a Chamberlain, at well past his peak, on the way to yet another scoring title, and in his 11th season in the league.

The fact was, Wilt absolutely crushed his peers...players like Lovellette, Embry, Reed, Lucas, Bellamy, Unseld, Cowens, McAdoo, Lanier, Hayes, Thurmond, Russell, Kareem, and even Gilmore (in the '72 ABA-NBA all-star game)...ALL in the HOF. And many of them were great well into the late 70's. And, of course, we saw an old Kareem, who could barely get 6 rpg, just annihilating BOTH Hakeem and Ewing...players who were among the best centers of the 90's.

So, you had better ask yourself again...just how dominant would a PRIME Wilt be in TODAY's NBA, and against the GARBAGE centers that permeate the rosters of the league? And, how would a PRIME Chamberlain have fared against a Dwight, given the fact that Wilt was MUCH taller, MUCH bigger, MUCH stronger, probably faster, every bit as athletic, and with MORE skills and RANGE than Howard has? A Howard who just had a 23-14 .600 season. Which makes these ridiculous claims that a PRIME Wilt would be a 25-15 .550 guy...LAUGHABLE. Playing against the inept clods that are all over the CURRENT NBA...well, you get my point...
:roll: Holy shit did you type all that? :lol

[pgm]

I think Wilt would need to get himself a shooting coach so his free throws wouldn't look like this? HAHA!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITxDdnzpnU8

He was a 60%+ FT shooter in college, which isn't great, but not all-time bad. But every year he got worse. He seemed to get very frustrated and never stuck with a consistent shooting style. He started off shooting a fairly standard style, switched to the underhand shot (but with terrible form), tried banking in free throws from the elbow (mimicking his fadeaway) and when he was a Laker, he was shooting those 17-footers (I guessed it worked for Nick Van Exel, but it's not the recommended shot). I think he was hoping for a magic cure on FT shooting so he could find a style that would work for him.

[PHILA]

Bigmen have not changed skillset wise in 50 years.They've become much worse.

[bdreason]

He would be a 20/10 guy aka one of the best Centers in the league. Exactly how much he scored and rebounded would depend on what team he played on and how many MPG he played.

[Marlo Stanfield]

Let's get real here...who in the hell in the CURRENT NBA would be able to STOP him????

The man was a FULL 7-2 (he only admitted to 7-1 1/2, but the evidence is OVERWHELMING that he was at LEAST 7-2, and probably taller.) Think about that... 7-2 BARE-FOOT. So, in TODAY's NBA he would be at LEAST 7-3 (with shoes...and probably closer to 7-3 1/2.) He was already among the strongest athletes in the WORLD in the mid-to-late 60's, and was a MONSTER by the 70's. Forget his bench-press for a minute (which was probably in the 500 lb. range)...he had PURE STRENGTH. Just google "Wilt's Strength" and you will get page-after-page of all kinds of articles...and very few actually credited to Wilt, himself.

He had a MEASURED 7'-8" wingspan. Here was a player who would be at least 7-3 TODAY, with a 7-8 wingspan.

He had INCREDIBLE leaping ability. Here again, just Google "Wilt's Vertical Leap", and you find all kinds of staggering numbers...and practically none of them initiated by Chamberlain. He was a PART-TIME high-jump CHAMPION. He also particpated in the long-jump, and the triple jump at KU. Oh, and BTW, he also ran the 440, and three the shot-put.

Speed? He was a member of KU's 4x100 relay team. He was asked to try-out for the KC Chiefs by Hank Stram, and outraced the Chiefs fastest RB. By the end of the try-out Stram had given Wilt a LEGITIMATE CONTRACT OFFER to play for the Chiefs. He felt that Wilt would have been an All-Pro at not one, but THREE positions (DL, LB, and TE.) And don't forget, Stram had 6-9 Buck Buchanon on those great KC teams. In any case, those that actually witnessed Chamberlain would tell you that he was the FASTEST player in the league in the 60's.

How about SKILLS? None other than HOF Coach Red Holzman claimed that Wilt came into the NBA with a very good OUTSIDE shot. He also had a devastating 10-15 ft. turn-around JUMP SHOT; a 15 ft. BANK SHOT (that was every bit as good as Duncan's); and even a HOOK SHOT. Along with his famed finger-roll, and just plain overwhelming power (which he seldom took advantage of.)

ENDURANCE? He AVERAGED 45.2 mpg in his CAREER. He has the SEVEN highest MPG SEASONS in NBA history. Then, in his 160 career playoff games, he AVERAGED an unbelieveable 47.2 MPG. BTW, he was running MARATHONS in his 60's.

There has NEVER been a period in NBA history, whether it be the 70's, 80's, 90's, 00's, or even TODAY, that a PRIME Wilt would not have been the most dominant player in the league. Even a well-past his prime was a top-3 player in the league into his LAST season, (which BTW, he LED the NBA in rebounding, was voted first-team all-defense, and set a FG% mark that will probably never be approached.)

If Love could get 15 rpg in today's NBA. If Kobe could get 28 FGAs in '06 (and Hakeem could get 30 FGAs per game in the '95 Finals). If Lebron and Iverson could play 43+ mpg in the decade of the 00's. If Howard could shoot 60% in the current NBA. Well, a PRIME Chamberlain, playing against the inept centers like Turiaf, Chuck Hayes, David Lee, Channing Frye, Glen Davis, Erick Dampier, Nazr Mohammed...et. al.

30-35 ppg, 17-20 rpg, .600+ FG% (especially against these clowns they call "centers"), 4+ apg, and 6 bpg. And all of that would be BEFORE all of the advantages of modern technology, medicine, nutrition, coaching, "supplements", and conditioning.


:roll: :roll: :roll: :oldlol: :oldlol:

Thanks, I appreciated that laugh.

[DJ Leon Smith]

He'd be beyond horrible because he came from a weak era. How the hell would he compete against the two athletic beasts who led the league in rebounds and blocked shots last season?

[millwad]

Google their STRENGTH...and get back to me on that. Chamberlain, by most accounts was easily benching 500+ lbs.

Haha, first of all, there's no way Wilt benced 500+ lbs, are you kidding me?
Oh yeah, Chamberlain according to himself slept with 20 000 women..

Just because he says so doesn't mean he tells the truth, dude was a liar..

[millwad]

Interesting...Wilt is currently ranked 17th All-Time...in FT's MADE. Think about that...he MADE 2000 FTs MORE than Bird did in his career, and Bird played one less season. Wilt also made FAR more FTs than Hakeem (nearly 600 more)...who played four more seasons. Chamberlain also MADE 835 FTs in 1962...which is higher than any season by MJ, Bird, Barry, Oscar, ...in fact, there has only been ONE other player, in ONE season, who MADE more (Jerry West with 840 in 1965.) BTW, how many other players have made 28 FTs in a game?

Not too shabby for one of the WORST FT shooters of all-time. And for those idiots that claimed that Wilt did not have 15+ ft range...based on his poor FT shooting,...how about this...Bruce Bowen LED the NBA in 3pt% in 2003 at .441...and he shot .404 from the FT line. Wilt actually shot his FT's better from nearly 18 ft. than he did from 15 ft.

Interesting... Wilt is currently ranked 1 All-Time... in FT's MISSED. Idiot, it's not about how many FT's he made, just because he made more FT's than Hakeem and Bird doesn't mean he was a better FT-shooter than them. Bird and Hakeem where much better from the FT-line than your beloved Wilt.

Instead of talking about all the FT's he made with his pathetic %, lets talk about how many he missed.

Wilt shot 11862 FT's during his career and made 6057 of them which makes him a pathetic 51% shooter from the FT-line. No other superstar shot that badly from the FT-line, NONE!

And your argument about Bruce Bowen is a bad one, Bruce Bowen averaged 1 FT a game in the season you mention. He was a role player who barely shot any FT's and in all he had a better FT % careerwise than Wilt. And he had a much better shooting form than Wilt ever had so you can't compare his 3 point shooting with Wilt's bank shot.

Haha, as you could see in the video he stood behind the FT-line, about 18 feet and he looked like trash, haha, guess how bad he'd look if he'd actually shot it from the FT-line now that you tell us that he actually was better from where he shot it in the video..

[jlauber]

Interesting... Wilt is currently ranked 1 All-Time... in FT's MISSED. Idiot, it's not about how many FT's he made, just because he made more FT's than Hakeem and Bird doesn't mean he was a better FT-shooter than them. Bird and Hakeem where much better from the FT-line than your beloved Wilt.

Instead of talking about all the FT's he made with his pathetic %, lets talk about how many he missed.

Wilt shot 11862 FT's during his career and made 6057 of them which makes him a pathetic 51% shooter from the FT-line. No other superstar shot that badly from the FT-line, NONE!

And your argument about Bruce Bowen is a bad one, Bruce Bowen averaged 1 FT a game in the season you mention. He was a role player who barely shot any FT's and in all he had a better FT % careerwise than Wilt. And he had a much better shooting form than Wilt ever had so you can't compare his 3 point shooting with Wilt's bank shot.

Haha, as you could see in the video he stood behind the FT-line, about 18 feet and he looked like trash, haha, guess how bad he'd look if he'd actually shot it from the FT-line now that you tell us that he actually was better from where he shot it in the video..

Yep...players like Wilt and Shaq were just no good. Even a Dwight Howard, with his career .598 FT% could not make an NBA team today.

[bingo123]

Yep...players like Wilt and Shaq were just no good. Even a Dwight Howard, with his career .598 FT% could not make an NBA team today.

But Wilt is supposed to be at Duncans level when it comes to shooting right? Shaq and Dwight surely arent.

[Helix]

Jeff.......why do you bother? You're dealing with a generation of dumbed down fans that think the product put forth by the NBA today is the best it's ever been. They don't know any better and you're not gonna change their minds. The two threads on this forum about Wilt proves it.

[jlauber]

Jeff.......why do you bother? You're dealing with a generation of dumbed down fans that think the product put forth by the NBA today is the best it's ever been. They don't know any better and you're not gonna change their minds. The two threads on this forum about Wilt proves it.

You are so right. These idiots honestly believe that today's NBA players are greater than any other era...which of course means that even a Shaq of 2000 would be reduced to a bench-warmer; a Hakeem of '95 would not make a college team today; an MJ of '91 would be cut from his high school team today; Magic and Bird in '85 would not make a WNBA team today; Kareem in '72 would be a laughing stock on his middle-school team today; and Russell, Oscar, and Chamberlain in '67 would be mopped up by the averaged 6th grade girls' team today.

[Nick Young]

Drew Bynum would school this guy all day and all night

[jlauber]

And while we are on the subject...does anyone here honestly believe that Jim Brown, Bo Jackson, Deion Sanders, Darrell Green, OJ, Cliff Branch, or Bob Hayes...in their primes, could make an NFL team today? All were way too slow.

[jlauber]

But Wilt is supposed to be at Duncans level when it comes to shooting right? Shaq and Dwight surely arent.


Take a look at this VERY limited video...and get back to me...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

[jlip]

I've seen so many comments about how great Wilt was, about how dominant he was and how skilled he was that I've lost count. Guys like JLauber on this forum thinks that Wilt would have dominated with the same skillset he had a la the 60's in todays game.

Obviously his stats can be used as a proof of how dominant he was, but as we all know, the game hadn't developed all that much by that time.

How do you think that Wilt would do if he played today, I don't mean how he would have done with todays training, I mean if you'd been able to put Wilt from the 60's in a game today vs todays player, how would he do?


The bolded part from the OP is what automatically causes one to question the validity of this thread. A player's skillset is often the result of the training and practice opportunities that are available in his era. While I know what he's asking, you frankly can't separate a player's training from his era. It's somewhat like asking...How would a Civil War soldier fare if you took him straight from the 1860's and placed him into the war in Iraq and told him to use the same muskets, rifles, and pistols that he had available in his era. Heck...The technology of war from just the Civil War to WWI changed so much that the same analogy would work there.

[Sakkreth]

Hard to tell, but imo solid 17/12 center.

[millwad]

The bolded part from the OP is what automatically causes one to question the validity of this thread. A player's skillset is often the result of the training and practice opportunities that are available in his era. While I know what he's asking, you frankly can't separate a player's training from his era. It's somewhat like asking...How would a Civil War soldier fare if you took him straight from the 1860's and placed him into the war in Iraq and told him to use the same muskets, rifles, and pistols that he had available in his era. Heck...The technology of war from just the Civil War to WWI changed so much that the same analogy would work there.

Exactly, I'm the OP (and I am not a ***, just wanted to make that clear) and the reason why I started this thread is because of poster like JLauber who claim that Wilt would destroy everyone in today's game which is just retarded..

[PHILA]

a 15 ft. BANK SHOT (that was every bit as good as Duncan's)

Nov 12, 1965

In a candid interview in the current issue of a national magazine San Francisco Warrior star Nate Thurmond rates other stars around the league:

Jerry West -- "The best shooter I ever saw."

Elgin Baylor and Chet Walker -- "The toughest forwards to defend, you never know what Baylor is going to do and he can shoot well from incredible positions; Walker moves real quick and has quite a variety of shots."

Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell -- "Chamberlain and Russell are the top centers. Wilt is the best offensively. When he shoots that fadeaway jumper, he's impossible to defend. Bill is the best defensively. He and Wilt are the cleanest players in the league, but they get away with more because they're who they are."



The bolded part from the OP is what automatically causes one to question the validity of this thread. A player's skillset is often the result of the training and practice opportunities that are available in his era. While I know what he's asking, you frankly can't separate a player's training from his era. It's somewhat like asking...How would a Civil War soldier fare if you took him straight from the 1860's and placed him into the war in Iraq and told him to use the same muskets, rifles, and pistols that he had available in his era. Heck...The technology of war from just the Civil War to WWI changed so much that the same analogy would work there.
http://i.imgur.com/MY2ic.png

[PHILA]

The bolded part from the OP is what automatically causes one to question the validity of this thread. A player's skillset is often the result of the training and practice opportunities that are available in his era. While I know what he's asking, you frankly can't separate a player's training from his era. It's somewhat like asking...How would a Civil War soldier fare if you took him straight from the 1860's and placed him into the war in Iraq and told him to use the same muskets, rifles, and pistols that he had available in his era. Heck...The technology of war from just the Civil War to WWI changed so much that the same analogy would work there.
:applause: Goes both ways too.

http://www.nba.com/allstar2008/57allstar_moments/1960s.html

[I]1968 NBA ASG

Talk about All-Stars! These two teams set the record for greatness. Seventeen future Hall of Famers played in this game. The sellout crowd of 18,422 (a new All-Star Game record) received the outcome they expected

[millwad]

Nov 12, 1965

In a candid interview in the current issue of a national magazine San Francisco Warrior star Nate Thurmond rates other stars around the league:

Jerry West -- "The best shooter I ever saw."

Elgin Baylor and Chet Walker -- "The toughest forwards to defend, you never know what Baylor is going to do and he can shoot well from incredible positions; Walker moves real quick and has quite a variety of shots."

Wilt Chamberlain and Bill Russell -- "Chamberlain and Russell are the top centers. Wilt is the best offensively. When he shoots that fadeaway jumper, he's impossible to defend. Bill is the best defensively. He and Wilt are the cleanest players in the league, but they get away with more because they're who they are."



http://i.imgur.com/MY2ic.png

So a bit of text proves that Wilt was as good from just outside the 3 second mark as Garnett? Haha..

Then I guess Brandon Roy is better than Kobe, Artest said so..