So I'm watching Game 5 of the 1997 NBA Finals on NBA TV "Flu game" [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

1987_Lakers

07-09-2011, 06:03 PM

Vragrant

07-09-2011, 06:13 PM

I remember that play, with Bill Walton commentating, "Foul!.....What are you doing Karl Malone you gotta foul!".

Malone was a big choker, I laugh because he was one of the dirtiest players I've ever seen.

LA_Showtime

07-09-2011, 06:14 PM

Hornacek looks like a white supremacist.

Jasper

07-09-2011, 10:02 PM

I like Karl Malone .. and I still consider him today as the proto type PF for the league.

People don't realize on the board that it was a different era.. there was some very physical play back then , and it is one of the reasons why KM bulked up the way he did to take the punishment.

As for choking in the post season and or finals you bet... and you know why ?

MJ (even the 2nd highest scoring pro choked at playing the GOAT (.)

cteach111

07-09-2011, 10:04 PM

97 bulls

07-09-2011, 10:06 PM

it's partially the team he's playing against, but it's also on Karl. I vividly remember some of the garbage he was putting up in some of those 4th quarters. It was kinda embarrassing.
At least you admonish the TEAM. Jaspers acting as if jordan was defening him. No credit to rodman or longley or williams.

ThaSwagg3r

07-09-2011, 10:09 PM

Samurai Swoosh

07-09-2011, 10:10 PM

rodman91

07-09-2011, 10:34 PM

Rodman guarded him most of the time with double teaming of Pippen & Jordan. 3 best defenders of all time..

Samurai Swoosh

07-09-2011, 10:36 PM

Rodman guarded him most of the time with double teaming of Pippen & Jordan. 3 best defenders of all time..
Imagine this defensive lineup ...

PG - Payton
SG - Jordan
SF - Pippen
PF - Rodman
C - Duncan

Sarcastic

07-09-2011, 10:37 PM

Imagine this defensive lineup ...

PG - Payton
SG - Jordan
SF - Pippen
PF - Rodman
C - Duncan

Duncan doesn't even play center. How about Chamberlain, Russell, or Olajuwon.

Samurai Swoosh

07-09-2011, 10:38 PM

Duncan doesn't even play center. How about Chamberlain, Russell, or Olajuwon.
Duncan is more center than he is power forward, lil bro

BlackJoker23

07-09-2011, 10:38 PM

Imagine this defensive lineup ...

PG - Payton
SG - Jordan
SF - Pippen
PF - Rodman
C - Duncan
would get owned by

iverson
reggie
bird
mchale
shaq

u mad?

ThaSwagg3r

07-09-2011, 10:41 PM

Agreed. Very good player, but he's not great because he didn't assert himself enough.
I am starting to think that he could have been the greatest PG ever (if not then second greatest) if he did assert himself. There is no question the Jazz would have won a few titles if he did. The titles are what hold Stockton from being ranked above PGs like Isiah or Oscar.

Oh well....just a fun hypothetical to play with.

Sarcastic

07-09-2011, 10:41 PM

Duncan is more center than he is power forward, lil bro

Soooooo is he the GOAT PF, or 6th best center?

Samurai Swoosh

07-09-2011, 10:54 PM

Soooooo is he the GOAT PF, or 6th best center?
IMO ... 6th best Center

lakers_forever

07-09-2011, 10:58 PM

rodman91

07-09-2011, 11:23 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7bsuLF0DqzU

Malone owning Duncan, Robinson and the Spurs. Jazz beat the Spurs 4 to 1 going up to the finals. Mailman is underrated here. He would destroy the league today and was better than prime Dirk.

Today's league? Karl Malone would be in jail for elbows.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6bM-Y4UoiAY&feature=related

:D

Marlo Stanfield

07-10-2011, 02:08 AM

http://www.makingpages.org/hoops/maloneelbowsrobinson.jpg

http://www.makingpages.org/hoops/malonekickhorry.jpg

KevinNYC

07-10-2011, 02:43 AM

Hornacek looks like a white supremacist.
what a ****ed up comment

Kblaze8855

07-10-2011, 02:54 AM

Malone owning Duncan, Robinson and the Spurs. Jazz beat the Spurs 4 to 1 going up to the finals. Mailman is underrated here. He would destroy the league today and was better than prime Dirk.

His jumper was working there. If hes making jumpers hes unguardable. But problem is...he had just enough nights like that to try to shoot his way out of it when he was off. He had too much faith in his jumper and lost the physical dominance he had in his youth.

At times he shot jumpers like Dirk...and he was not Dirk....

magnax1

07-10-2011, 03:02 AM

Malone for whatever reason just decided to settle for jumpers in every playoffs. He never seemed to back down and fight to get a little closer to the basket on his fadeaways, but instead just loft it over the top.
And yeah, he was a choker, but you can't ignore the 25 points he brought, his great passing, rebounding and defense. He was a great player, but he had his flaws, and in many ways relied on Sloan's system and Stockton more then any other MVP caliber player has relied on a system or another player to play the way he did.

Bless Mathews

07-10-2011, 03:05 AM

Karl Malone was the dirtiest honky that ever played in the nba

cracka

rodman91

07-10-2011, 09:52 AM

http://www.makingpages.org/hoops/maloneelbowsrobinson.jpg

http://www.makingpages.org/hoops/malonekickhorry.jpg

http://www.makingpages.org/hoops/malonekickhakeem.jpg
http://www.yayboo.com/photos/4/lg/7694.jpg
http://assets.sbnation.com/assets/329118/0523_large.jpg
:roll:

DRose1899

07-10-2011, 10:02 AM

Those pics hilarious as hell :roll:

L.A. Jazz

07-10-2011, 03:24 PM

Karl Malone was the dirtiest honky that ever played in the nba.
cracka
:oldlol:
pure comedy.

DuMa

07-10-2011, 03:26 PM

Karl was a shell of himself in the Finals both years. somehow the fittest guy in the NBA didnt appear to be fit enough or smart enough to sustain his play all the way into deep june basketball.

NugzHeat3

07-10-2011, 07:32 PM

You can tell by some of these posts that Karl Malone has become ridiculously underrated these days.

There's a false perception of him being a perennial chokeartist and someone who folded under pressure time and time again

People forget he suffered a hand injury in the WCF against Houston (he was tripped up Barkley and landed awkardly on his shooting hnad) this year which is why he shot like trash the rest of the playoffs. He was dominant against LA and did a good job guarding Shaq.

There were very few instances where Malone let the team down. I can only think of three. The game 7 against Seattle where the crowd got to him, one of the games in the Portland series the year he was MVP and the game 5 against Phoenix in 1990 where he played poorly at home and missed a bunch of FTs.

More often than not, Karl did not get enough support nor the adequate spacing to work around especially before the Hornacek days. Jeff Malone was as one-dimensional as ever and didn't really have range up to three.

I have maintained Stockton did not look for his shot enough and often gets overlooked when analyzing Utah's failures.

Nobody remembers Karl's big games or the monster performances like him destroying Buck Williams and Portland in 1992, they lost because Porter just owned Stockton.

Nobody remembers him helping the Jazz come down from 3-1 against Seattle in 1996 to force game 7.

Nobody remembers him destroying David Robinson and the Spurs or his big game 5 against Chicago in 1998 to force game 6. N

obody remembers that terrific game 6 he had, either except for the Jordan steal, of course. What happened earlier is totally ignored for some reason. Bulls got two lucky ass calls to go their way so it should have never come down to the Jordan shot but w/e.

I would have honestly like to seen a prime Karl matched up with Duncan because I think Malone would win that match up more often than not even if he doesn't play fair and square which I think we all know he won't.

EricForman

09-15-2011, 07:33 AM

All I have to say is Karl Malone is an absolute choker. During the 4th quarter in crunch time he just looked timid, he was taking 20 foot shots that were no where near to going in, with 15 sec left, Utah was down & Chicago had possession, Utah needs to foul, but Karl Malone doesn't foul when he had the chance to do so, this results in an easy dunk for Chicago. Game Over.

I was watching the flu game right now and was just about to start a thread on this too. good thing i googled and found out you and i thought of the exact same thing.

it is insane how big a f*ck up taht was on Malone's part. just standing there not fouling even though they were down 1 with 20 seconds to go... good god.

Jordan's great, but sh*t, perhaps Utah lost this one due to Malone's weak ass more than Bulls took this one.

Smoke117

09-15-2011, 07:46 AM

http://http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYJCtSpYB-w (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sYJCtSpYB-w)

guy

09-15-2011, 11:36 AM

Like I've said numerous times....If Stockton had the confidence in himself to take the clutch shots, the Jazz would have won a few titles with that dynamic duo. It is too bad he didn't have the confidence and he deferred to Karl Malone instead. The result? 0 championships.

I doubt they win championships. Just a bunch of more Finals losses to the Bulls.

I don't think he didn't have the confidence. I think he was too much of a team player, and with Malone being the leader and there best scorer, he always let him have the opportunity of closing games out. I have the feeling he didn't want to insult his teammate and friend by not letting him take the last shot because he thought he was a choker.

Its funny cause if you watch the 97 WCF game 6 vs. the Rockets, it was one of the most clutch performances I've ever seen. Stockton scored the last 9 points for the Jazz in like 2 minutes by hitting some difficult layups and the game winning 3. It was flat out amazing. In a game with 5 HOFers and arguably 5 top 30-40 players of all-time, he was the one that dominated. What was funny about this game is this was there best opportunity to finally get to the Finals for the 1st time but he didn't defer to Malone at the end, and it was almost like he was saying "we've in this position way too many times before, I'm not letting my big p*ssy teammate f*ck this up again" and then he just flat out took control and won the game.

Da_Realist

09-15-2011, 11:51 AM

I doubt they win championships. Just a bunch of more Finals losses to the Bulls.

I don't think he didn't have the confidence. I think he was too much of a team player, and with Malone being the leader and there best scorer, he always let him have the opportunity of closing games out. I have the feeling he didn't want to insult his teammate and friend by not letting him take the last shot because he thought he was a choker.

Its funny cause if you watch the 97 WCF game 6 vs. the Rockets, it was one of the most clutch performances I've ever seen. Stockton scored the last 9 points for the Jazz in like 2 minutes by hitting some difficult layups and the game winning 3. It was flat out amazing. In a game with 5 HOFers and arguably 5 top 30-40 players of all-time, he was the one that dominated. What was funny about this game is this was there best opportunity to finally get to the Finals for the 1st time but he didn't defer to Malone at the end, and it was almost like he was saying "we've in this position way too many times before, I'm not letting my big p*ssy teammate f*ck this up again" and then he just flat out took control and won the game.

Another game just like this was Game 4 of the 97 Finals. The Bulls HAD that game but Stockton took it from them. He was always the one I would worry about deep in the 4th. He and Jeff Hornacek. If you left those guys open they were going to hit the shot. Malone was the guy that could hurt you in quarters 1 - 3 and half the 4th, mostly. I think the Bulls were content letting Malone try to close games, though.

IGOTGAME

09-15-2011, 12:10 PM

I doubt they win championships. Just a bunch of more Finals losses to the Bulls.

I don't think he didn't have the confidence. I think he was too much of a team player, and with Malone being the leader and there best scorer, he always let him have the opportunity of closing games out. I have the feeling he didn't want to insult his teammate and friend by not letting him take the last shot because he thought he was a choker.

Its funny cause if you watch the 97 WCF game 6 vs. the Rockets, it was one of the most clutch performances I've ever seen. Stockton scored the last 9 points for the Jazz in like 2 minutes by hitting some difficult layups and the game winning 3. It was flat out amazing. In a game with 5 HOFers and arguably 5 top 30-40 players of all-time, he was the one that dominated. What was funny about this game is this was there best opportunity to finally get to the Finals for the 1st time but he didn't defer to Malone at the end, and it was almost like he was saying "we've in this position way too many times before, I'm not letting my big p*ssy teammate f*ck this up again" and then he just flat out took control and won the game.

nope, just means that either he couldn't do it or made a bad decisions by not doing it.

I'm sick of the "too much of a team player" excuse. If the decision is wrong, it is wrong. Don't sugarcoat it.

guy

09-15-2011, 12:16 PM

nope, just means that either he couldn't do it or made a bad decisions by not doing it.

I'm sick of the "too much of a team player" excuse. If the decision is wrong, it is wrong. Don't sugarcoat it.

I never said the decision wasn't wrong. Maybe team player isn't the right word. Maybe I should've said he was too unselfish. But I don't think he just didn't have the confidence.

97 bulls

09-15-2011, 12:22 PM

nope, just means that either he couldn't do it or made a bad decisions by not doing it.

I'm sick of the "too much of a team player" excuse. If the decision is wrong, it is wrong. Don't sugarcoat it.
I actually agree with guy. What was stockton supposed to do? You got one of the greatest scorers in the history of the game on your team. I'm sure sloan drew up the plays to run through malone.

This is Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest. So what if stockton decides to do his thing and try to take over games but with the same result? We would be calling him an idiot for not going to the teams best scorer in the clutch.

And why are we knocking malone so much? Why don't we give rodman credit for the defense he played on malone. This is another case that shows clutch defense is just as important as clutch offense.

IGOTGAME

09-15-2011, 12:37 PM

I actually agree with guy. What was stockton supposed to do? You got one of the greatest scorers in the history of the game on your team. I'm sure sloan drew up the plays to run through malone.

This is Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest. So what if stockton decides to do his thing and try to take over games but with the same result? We would be calling him an idiot for not going to the teams best scorer in the clutch.

And why are we knocking malone so much? Why don't we give rodman credit for the defense he played on malone. This is another case that shows clutch defense is just as important as clutch offense.

then he just wasn't good enough. Stockton played with Malone enough time to recognize the pattern of not coming up big in the clutch. He should have made the winning plays if he was good enough to do so. Obviously he wasn't. Sometimes you gotta stop worrying about what people will call you and win the damn game. That is what Isiah would have done.

puppychili

09-15-2011, 05:54 PM

I actually agree with guy. What was stockton supposed to do? You got one of the greatest scorers in the history of the game on your team. I'm sure sloan drew up the plays to run through malone.

This is Monday morning quarterbacking at its finest. So what if stockton decides to do his thing and try to take over games but with the same result? We would be calling him an idiot for not going to the teams best scorer in the clutch.

And why are we knocking malone so much? Why don't we give rodman credit for the defense he played on malone. This is another case that shows clutch defense is just as important as clutch offense.

Because it seems like this thread is yet another attempt at slighting Jordan/Bulls by knocking their competition. This is one of Jordans defining games yet all that Laker fans/Jordan haters/Bulls haters wanna do is point out Malones faults.

Typical. :rolleyes:

G-train

09-15-2011, 06:21 PM

There was a lot of pressure in this game. Malone played hard but the defence was very good, yet he still took shots to try to score but they were just bad decisions.

guy

09-15-2011, 06:42 PM

And why are we knocking malone so much? Why don't we give rodman credit for the defense he played on malone. This is another case that shows clutch defense is just as important as clutch offense.

Shawn Kemp the year before went off on Rodman and Malone the next year went off on Rodman. Malone is known to be choker in big moments regardless of the defense he played against.

Big#50

09-15-2011, 07:03 PM

Malone belongs in the Kobe category. An all time great that just didn't get it done when his team needed him. Pressure gets to everyone. Except a certain bunch.

Jacks3

09-15-2011, 07:29 PM

^:oldlol:

97 bulls

09-15-2011, 07:45 PM

Shawn Kemp the year before went off on Rodman and Malone the next year went off on Rodman. Malone is known to be choker in big moments regardless of the defense he played against.
Actually, kemp didn't go off on rodman. Kemp got a lot of garbage baskets that made his stats look very good. Big misconception. And in 98, they posted a stat on malone fg% against the bulls centers and rodman. If I remember correct, rodman held malone to 38% shooting.

Big#50

09-15-2011, 07:52 PM

Actually, kemp didn't go off on rodman. Kemp got a lot of garbage baskets that made his stats look very good. Big misconception. And in 98, they posted a stat on malone fg% against the bulls centers and rodman. If I remember correct, rodman held malone to 38% shooting.
Malone used his intimidation tactics to bully around DROB and most other players. RODMAN didn't give a ****. **** Karl Malone.

Kobe 4 The Win

09-16-2011, 08:44 AM

I just watched this game the other day too. Here are some observations

Karl Malone choked big time. The dude fell apart. It was ugly.

The Bulls would have won the series eventually anyway.

Karl Malone was (usually) a smart player but he was very dirty. I've seen him pull some shit.

I love Dennis Rodman. That guy was a great player and he made the games really fun to watch.

Oh yeah, 97 Bulls. Wasn't it you who used to carry on about how the Bulls were better in 97 because of Brian Williams? Brian Williams sucked ass. No offense but he was so terrible in that game. That fat ass was getting chewed out by Phil Jackson something fierce. The dude would f**k up 5 seconds after being put in the game. Blown defensive assignments, fouls, you name it. I've never seen Phil that pissed at one guy for that long before. I'm sorry to put you on blast but that dude was a total waste.

1987_Lakers

09-16-2011, 07:52 PM

Oh yeah, 97 Bulls. Wasn't it you who used to carry on about how the Bulls were better in 97 because of Brian Williams? Brian Williams sucked ass. No offense but he was so terrible in that game. That fat ass was getting chewed out by Phil Jackson something fierce. The dude would f**k up 5 seconds after being put in the game. Blown defensive assignments, fouls, you name it. I've never seen Phil that pissed at one guy for that long before. I'm sorry to put you on blast but that dude was a total waste.

Yea, Williams never was a good fit for the Bulls. Say all you want how he put up good stats before & after he left the Bulls, but there is a reason why Luc Longley was starting over Williams & played under 18 minutes per game in the postseason despite the Bulls having little depth at the frontline.