Could Michael Jordan score 40 ppg in this era?

[BEAST Griffin]

It's easier than ever for perimeter players to penetrate. And that's something Michael Jordan excelled at. With these soft no touch rules he'd probably average 10+ ft's per game and penetrate at will.

40 ppg is realistic.

[OmniStrife]

A 40 PPG player is a terminal tumor for a team and a losing season.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Nah, I doubt it. If '87-'91 MJ played from '06-'10, I see a high season or two of 36.0-36.5 ppg/47.5-49.0% FG/56.5-58% TS and regular seasons of 32.0-33.5 pts/50-52% FG/58.5-61% TS.

[TheMan]

It's easier than ever for perimeter players to penetrate. And that's something Michael Jordan excelled at. With these soft no touch rules he'd probably average 10+ ft's per game and penetrate at will.

40 ppg is realistic.
Yes...easily

with today's soft NBA and the big man in the middle basically extinct, nothing would stop MJ from taking it to the rim all game long.

[jstern]

Jordan comes across as a very honest guy in his interviews. Very, very little bravado, just very honest. And back when he was playing he said that he could average 40 ppg, but that it would not be good for the team. So that's back then, imagine now. If he played his regular game I think he could. I think his natural instinct was always to look for the best shot for the team to score, which usually meant he taking a shot with how easily he could get one off, so since it would be so much easier for him for him now, then I think there would be seasons where he would score over 40ppg. If my assessment is correct, then you can probably even ask if he would be capable of scoring 50+ ppg, but at the expense of the team and winning.

[Droid101]

Yes...easily

with today's soft NBA and the big man in the middle basically extinct, nothing would stop MJ from taking it to the rim all game long.
Except the zone defense which would force him to pass.

You realize he played in an era of illegal defense, so it was hard to double team him. It's super easy now. Just have someone floating over toward him at all times.

His assists would probably climb (but not by much, that pressure usually makes the second pass the one that hits the most open man), but his scoring wouldn't be any higher.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Lmfao @ old geezers on this site :roll:

[amfirst]

Nope, they would force him into a zone defense, which would have one guy guarding him and one guy guarding the guy guarding back with 1 more defender on one side. Forcing him to his weaker hand and more predictable outcome. Averaging 40 point per game would be terrible for his team's winning percentage. The main reason why he won't average 40 ppg today.

[juju151111]

Except the zone defense which would force him to pass.

You realize he played in an era of illegal defense, so it was hard to double team him. It's super easy now. Just have someone floating over toward him at all times.

His assists would probably climb (but not by much, that pressure usually makes the second pass the one that hits the most open man), but his scoring wouldn't be any higher.
MJ averged 37 ppg and stop pretending teams play Zone all gm. They barley ever do. Larry brown,Pat Rileyetc... all say zone is.BS and the best defense play man with help. MJ would tear this

[OldSchoolBBall]

Nope, they would force him into a zone defense, which would have one guy guarding him and one guy guarding the guy guarding back with 1 more defender on one side. Forcing him to his weaker hand and more predictable outcome. Averaging 40 point per game would be terrible for his team's winning percentage. The main reason why he won't average 40 ppg today.

Like I said above, I don't think he'd average 40 ppg, but you make it sound like it's been difficult for perimeter players to score in the '06-'11 era when the exact opposite is true: perimeter players have scored more than ever during this period.

[andgar923]

Easily.

LOL @ Zone defense stopping MJ.

:roll:

Of course, this is assuming that he played exactly how he did back then, he'd be obliterating zone defenses.

All one has to do is move without the ball and exploit the weak spots on the defense (which there's many in zone), and that's exactly what MJ did for his entire career.

ROFL @ zone defense

[eliteballer]

The Bad Boy Pistons allowed more PPG than the Nash/Dirk Mavs.

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

The Bad Boy Pistons allowed more PPG than the Nash/Dirk Mavs.
/thread

[asdf1990]

he would average 50 ppg/12rpg/15apg/20 spg/10bpg on 100/200/900 with a TS of 500 in this era

[catch24]

He could, but on a really bad team.

[Warriors fan]

Maybe in 06 or 07 where 30 year old Iverson was able to score 33 points on 45% 3rd year Lebron was able to score 31 points and Gilbert Arenas was able to score 29 points on 45%. He's a way better scorer than all those guys and MJ in his prime was more athletic than Kobe in 06 so he would probably get at least get 37 and at most 41 but any other year no.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Of course he could if he just chucked all game long

[HylianNightmare]

yes prime jordan was god

[bingo123]

I think Jordan is GOAT. He was awesome. But posts like this really make me belive that half of those claims comes from teenagers that only saw Jordan play on youtube. You know that youtube that will only show you his amazing made shots, amazing dunks/lay-ups,... Teams today make science out of defense. Today its defense>offense. Back than it was offense>defense (with few exeptions, that still played worse defense that we watch today). Yes it is true that there is no hand checking rule today, but there was no double-team on defense in 90s. Jordan today would get double-teamed on at least 50% of possessions and he would be FORCED to give the ball away (which is the right thing to do in those situations). And also avarage SG in this era is far more athletic and better defender. I think Jordans CAREER ppg would be same as it was at best (would probably decrease for 1-2 ppg). He would probably get 2-3 apg more. So IMO its impossible for ANY player to avarage 40 ppg for whole season (maybe few weeks) in todays NBA.


He is GOAT, not GOD.

edit: he could, but that would give his team no chance to even be contender (chucking mode activated for whole year). But than again if they would chuck as hard, I can see guys like Bron, Wade, Melo, Kobe, Iverson, Durant... do it to.

[Ikill]

I think Jordan is GOAT. He was awesome. But posts like this really make me belive that half of those claims comes from teenagers that only saw Jordan play on youtube. You know that youtube that will only show you his amazing made shots, amazing dunks/lay-ups,... Teams today make science out of defense. Today its defense>offense. Back than it was offense>defense (with few exeptions, that still played worse defense that we watch today). Yes it is true that there is no hand checking rule today, but there was no double-team on defense in 90s. Jordan today would get double-teamed on at least 50% of possessions and he would be FORCED to give the ball away (which is the right thing to do in those situations). And also avarage SG in this era is far more athletic and better defender. I think Jordans CAREER ppg would be same as it was at best (would probably decrease for 1-2 ppg). He would probably get 2-3 apg more. So IMO its impossible for ANY player to avarage 40 ppg for whole season (maybe few weeks) in todays NBA.


He is GOAT, not GOD.
if the average player is more athletic wouldn't Jordan be more athletic too

[yobore]

if the average player is more athletic wouldn't Jordan be more athletic toolol?

[bingo123]

if the average player is more athletic wouldn't Jordan be more athletic too
Maybe but we will never know. We are comparing Jordan we know here, right? Then again, he was a freak of nature and he was/is one of a kind. Its hard to compare avarge players to athletic freaks. If we go by avarage athletic guys in each eras, Wilt would be 80 ppg player today, which is not true at all.

edit: what i wrote is a little weird. What i mean is that avarage players are getting a lot better with each era. We cant say that for freaks of nature.

[guy]

I think Jordan is GOAT. He was awesome. But posts like this really make me belive that half of those claims comes from teenagers that only saw Jordan play on youtube. You know that youtube that will only show you his amazing made shots, amazing dunks/lay-ups,... Teams today make science out of defense. Today its defense>offense. Back than it was offense>defense (with few exeptions, that still played worse defense that we watch today). Yes it is true that there is no hand checking rule today, but there was no double-team on defense in 90s. Jordan today would get double-teamed on at least 50% of possessions and he would be FORCED to give the ball away (which is the right thing to do in those situations). And also avarage SG in this era is far more athletic and better defender. I think Jordans CAREER ppg would be same as it was at best (would probably decrease for 1-2 ppg). He would probably get 2-3 apg more. So IMO its impossible for ANY player to avarage 40 ppg for whole season (maybe few weeks) in todays NBA.


He is GOAT, not GOD.

edit: he could, but that would give his team no chance to even be contender (chucking mode activated for whole year). But than again if they would chuck as hard, I can see guys like Bron, Wade, Melo, Kobe, Iverson, Durant... do it to.


I agree that he wouldn't average 40 ppg, but Jordan was arguably the most double-teamed perimeter player ever. Lets not act like there was strictly nothing but one-on-one man to man defense back then.

[nbacardDOTnet]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/0bdac622.jpg


http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/VS/z%20Crazy%20Stat%20n%20Record/Michael%20Jordan/2001-1.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/VS/z%20Crazy%20Stat%20n%20Record/Michael%20Jordan/20030227WizardsVSRockets-1.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/VS/z%20Crazy%20Stat%20n%20Record/Michael%20Jordan/20030227WizardsvsRockets.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/VS/z%20Crazy%20Stat%20n%20Record/Michael%20Jordan/-20030227WizardsVSRockets-Last4games.jpg

/thread

[OldSchoolBBall]

But than again if they would chuck as hard, I can see guys like Bron, Wade, Melo, Kobe, Iverson, Durant... do it to.

So you're saying these guys are as good a scorer as Jordan? You just outed yourself. What a joke. :oldlol:

Only Kobe is even in the conversation. Jordan takes a steaming SH!T on Bron/Wade/Melo/Iverson as a scorer.

[jstern]

I think Jordan is GOAT. He was awesome. But posts like this really make me belive that half of those claims comes from teenagers that only saw Jordan play on youtube. You know that youtube that will only show you his amazing made shots, amazing dunks/lay-ups,... Teams today make science out of defense. Today its defense>offense. Back than it was offense>defense (with few exeptions, that still played worse defense that we watch today). Yes it is true that there is no hand checking rule today, but there was no double-team on defense in 90s. Jordan today would get double-teamed on at least 50% of possessions and he would be FORCED to give the ball away (which is the right thing to do in those situations). And also avarage SG in this era is far more athletic and better defender. I think Jordans CAREER ppg would be same as it was at best (would probably decrease for 1-2 ppg). He would probably get 2-3 apg more. So IMO its impossible for ANY player to avarage 40 ppg for whole season (maybe few weeks) in todays NBA.




He is GOAT, not GOD.

edit: he could, but that would give his team no chance to even be contender (chucking mode activated for whole year). But than again if they would chuck as hard, I can see guys like Bron, Wade, Melo, Kobe, Iverson, Durant... do it to.


I'm confused, because how did players like Iverson rather than declining as an older player averaged 30ppg, 4 point ppg more than the previous year, and 33ppg the following year, after the rule changes. Shouldn't the opposite be happening? And Nash suddenly shooting over 50% for the 1st time ever, and every year after. And many other superstars suddenly scoring more points per game than the previous year. Not to mention that the NBA stated that the reasons for the rule changes was to have guards scoring more. And how old are you. I usually only hear that there was no double teaming in the 90s on youtube, and when I check their profile they are always under 20 years old.

[gengiskhan]

'86-'90 MJ can ave 42-43ppg easily in this today's era.

Back then it was tough for Bulls to get to 50 wins season cuz of balanced offense vs solid defense that was required for a 50+wins team.

Today, NBA talent is weak, defense is very weak & eurotrash & high school infants are not really tested in NCAA & relaxed defensive rules are favoring this run & gun offense without real fundamentals needed to be applied.

MJ today will be averaging 42-43ppg easily with tons of free throws every game. you touch him its foul. With his lightening first step & ability to pull up, spot up, fadeaway, turnaround any where inside the half court.

Major incentive for MJ to ave 42-43ppg is getting closer to 60 wins. Today, the more efficiently you score, more wins your team has. MJ will even bust out an ave of 45ppg season just to get to 60 wins cuz he was the most efficient scorer on his team & a determination to win his first Reg Sea MVP title with 62 win season.

Its lot lot lot easy these days. One reason why NBA is really boring now.

[bingo123]

So you're saying these guys are as good a scorer as Jordan? You just outed yourself. What a joke. :oldlol:

Only Kobe is even in the conversation. Jordan takes a steaming SH!T on Bron/Wade/Melo/Iverson as a scorer.

Not at all. I am just saying that these players could do that if they took like 30 fga per game. And not, Kobe is not better scorer than any of those guys (maybe Iverson). But that is my opinion. Kobe will soon (in two years probably) break an all time record in most missed fga.

[ThaSwagg3r]

I see him averaging in the 35-40 ppg area. It's not that defenses are worse today. It's just a lot easier to get to the line in today's game than it was back then. MJ would average at least 13-15 FTA per game.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Not at all. I am just saying that these players could do that if they took like 30 fga per game. And not, Kobe is not better scorer than any of those guys (maybe Iverson). But that is my opinion. Kobe will soon (in two years probably) break an all time record in most missed fga.

Scoring ability and scoring efficiency are two different things. Kobe can score in more ways than all of those guys

[LeFraud James]

Except the zone defense which would force him to pass.

You realize he played in an era of illegal defense, so it was hard to double team him. It's super easy now. Just have someone floating over toward him at all times.

His assists would probably climb (but not by much, that pressure usually makes the second pass the one that hits the most open man), but his scoring wouldn't be any higher.

Very well composed post.

:applause:

[bingo123]

I'm confused, because how did players like Iverson rather than declining as an older player averaged 30ppg, 4 point ppg more than the previous year, and 33ppg the following year, after the rule changes. Shouldn't the opposite be happening? And Nash suddenly shooting over 50% for the 1st time ever, and every year after. And many other superstars suddenly scoring more points per game than the previous year. Not to mention that the NBA stated that the reasons for the rule changes was to have guards scoring more. And how old are you. I usually only hear that there was no double teaming in the 90s on youtube, and when I check their profile they are always under 20 years old.

Is Iverson not a great scorer? He also avereged 31 ppg in 2001. Why didnt Kobes fg% increase if thats the case? The thing is Jordan was smart enough, that he knew he has to involve his teamates in the game to win the game. Some of you are acting like he would take 30 or more fgs per game. He would still avarage 23-24 fgs per game. Its almost impossible to get 40 ppg on that, unless you are claiming he would shot at 63-65% (which is impossible for SG at this rate).
And i will be 31 in november.

[quick96]

Thanks for the Joke of the Day... HA!

The dude would barely crack the 15ppg mark in this era!

Guys like Kobe Bryant, Ron Artest, Shane Battier, Ray Allen would eat him

up.

:roll:

[Batz]

If Tony Allen can't, nor can he.

[atljonesbro]

WAT 40 PPG THT IZ JUS AVERAGE FER ANY 80s 90s PLAYER IN TODAYZ LEAGUE LOLOLOL. MJ WUD AVG 73.8 PPG LOL NUBZ.

Put him on a very bad team where he gets the large majority of touches yeah, but so could LeBron, Kobe, Durant, ect. Seriously people think MJ along with every single 80s 90s player is waaaay better than they actually are. MJ is GOAT but like someone said earlier he's not god. People on this forum LOVE putting 80s 90s players on god status like they are just so much better and on a much higher level than every player in todays game. Toni Kukoc>LeBron in your opinion. Nostalgia is a bitch aint it.

[Calabis]

Except the zone defense which would force him to pass.

You realize he played in an era of illegal defense, so it was hard to double team him. It's super easy now. Just have someone floating over toward him at all times.

His assists would probably climb (but not by much, that pressure usually makes the second pass the one that hits the most open man), but his scoring wouldn't be any higher.

LMAO....zone defense hasn't stopped any perimeter players from getting in the lanes and scoring a majority of their points within 15 feet

[LA_Showtime]

I doubt it, no. I do think the rule changes would add 2-3 assists per game, though.

[Calabis]

Except the zone defense which would force him to pass.

You realize he played in an era of illegal defense, so it was hard to double team him. It's super easy now. Just have someone floating over toward him at all times.

His assists would probably climb (but not by much, that pressure usually makes the second pass the one that hits the most open man), but his scoring wouldn't be any higher.

:facepalm

[Droid101]

LMAO....zone defense hasn't stopped any perimeter players from getting in the lanes and scoring a majority of their points within 15 feet
It's not zone defenses per se. Watch the Celtics play defense. If they are playing against a one-man-team, they always have players floating over from the weak side to clog things up.

One-man-team type players never score well against the Celtics, or really, any other team that uses this kind of denial.

Pass-drive-kick offenses work against these types of defenses, which lead to much more balanced scoring among teammates.

[gengiskhan]

21 yrs old Rookie MJ played 82 games & averaged:

6.5 Reb 6.0 Ast 28.2 Pts

Post 2005 defensive rules changes, With lot less milage on Legs & incredible energy rookie MJ possessed (he barely got tired), MJs rookie ave will easily be

8.0 Rebs 7.3 Ast 34.5-35.5 pts

as his FG% will be in the range of 55-57%. & free throws will be way up.

Remember: Rookie MJ played free style Bball. Lot more penetration, lightening quick first step, posterisations, inside game. result will be lot more free throws.

[Droid101]

:facepalm
:facepalm :facepalm

You realize back then you had to be stuck to your man, or directly double-teaming a man with the ball. There was no in between. There was no clogging the paint.

Go back and watch some games, they flow much differently back then.

[Droid101]

21 yrs old Rookie MJ played 82 games & averaged:

6.5 Reb 6.0 Ast 28.2 Pts

Post 2005 defensive rules changes, With lot less milage on Legs & incredible energy rookie MJ possessed (he barely got tired), MJs rookie ave will easily be

8.0 Rebs 7.3 Ast 34.5-35.5 pts

as his FG% will be in the range of 55-57%. & free throws will be way up.

Remember: Rookie MJ played free style Bball. Lot more penetration, lightening quick first step, posterisations, inside game. result will be lot more free throws.
You realize that the average pace back then was around 100.8 possessions per 48 minutes.

It's about 92 possessions per 48 minutes now.

Look, I love Jordan. I grew up watching him dominate. But there is no way he's scoring more on higher percentages when the pace is this much slower. Not to mention packing the paint and making him a jump shooter.

[rule1223]

LOL you must be kidding, this is the average defensive player in todays game, let me repeat AVERAGE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni7t4swtdYw

[Calabis]

:facepalm :facepalm

You realize back then you had to be stuck to your man, or directly double-teaming a man with the ball. There was no in between. There was no clogging the paint.

Go back and watch some games, they flow much differently back then.

U go watch games, bigs camped out in lanes...u r telling me harder to get to the basket today:roll:

Zone Myth...as of Dec 22, 2005

Here's a look at the NBA's top five in scoring points in the paint (through Tuesday):

1. Tony Parker, Spurs 328
2. Tim Duncan, Spurs 322
3. Dwyane Wade, Heat 316
4. LeBron James, Cavs 304
5. Allen Iverson, Sixers 298

Zone Defense Makes it harder to get into the mid to close range area for perimeter stars: From NBA.COM % of pts scored INSIDE of 15 ft or FT line 2010

In 2010

Kobe scored:

460 pts on layups/dunks
572 pts inside 10 ft
862 pts inside of 15 ft
439 pts from the FT line.

Total: 669 pts outside 15+ ft < 1,301 pts INSIDE 15 ft or the FT line.

That means 66% (2/3 of his pts) came inside of 15 ft & the FT line LOL!!

Carmelo (the alleged pure jump shooter) scored:

652 pts on dunks/layups
736 pts inside 10 ft
864 pts inside 15 ft
508 pts from the FT line
571 pts outside 15 f

Total: 1,372 of his total pts came inside 15 ft or the FT line (71% of his total pts)

D-Wade (who doesn't even have MJ's post game or jumper) scored:

762 pts on dunks/layups
894 pts inside 10 ft
996 pts inside 15 ft
534 pts from the FT line
515 pts from outside 15 ft

Total: 1,530 of his total pts came inside 15 ft or from the FT line (75% of his total pts)

Tony Parker (a 6'1 pt guard) has led the league in pts scored in the paint TWICE!!

Tyriq Evans (a rookie in 2010) scored 714 pts on layups/dunks (84% of his total pts)

Durant scored 602 pts on layups/dunks (70% of his total pts)

LBJ scored 754 pts on layups/dunks (68% of his total pts)

Brandon Roy scored 346 pts on layups/dunks (63% of his total pts)

Joe Johnson scored 324 pts on layups/dunks (42% of his total pts)

Darren Williams scored:

392 pts on layups/dunks
486 pts inside 10 ft
528 inside 15 ft
335 pts from the FT line
556 pts from outside 15 ft

Total: 863 of his total pts came INSIDE 15 ft or the FT line (61% of his total pts)

Dirk Nowitzki (not a great athlete & terrible foot speed) scored:

328 pts on layups/dunks
416 pts inside 10 ft
718 pts inside 15 ft
536 pts from the FT line
773 pts outside 15 ft

Total: 1,254 of his total pts came INSIDE 15 ft or the FT line (62% of his toal pts)


NBA.com: Shooting percentages have risen since 2004-05 regardless of location -- at-the-rim shots, short- and deep-mid range and 3-pointers. Does this surprise you, especially the higher percentages from 3-point range?

SJ: It doesn't. With the rule and interpretation changes, it has become more difficult for defenders to defend penetration, cover the entire floor on defensive rotations and recover to shooters. This has provided more time for shooters to ready themselves for quality shots. With more dribble penetration, ball handlers are getting more opportunities at the rim. Additionally, teams now realize the 3-point shot is a great competitive equalizer, so they are taking more; they have improved their skill level on threes and are making them at a higher rate.

Since 2004 Shaq shot 60+ percent 5 times, 59% 2 times, prior to this his high was .599 one time(Zone didn't stop Shaq's efficiency)

GTFOH with this BS....facts prove otherwise

[mentallooser]

Even if he could I seriously doubt he would. It would be cancerous for his team for a single player to completely dominate the scoring to that extent all game in this age of basketball.

[Calabis]

Even if he could I seriously doubt he would. It would be cancerous for his team for a single player to completely dominate the scoring to that extent all game in this age of basketball.

:applause:

I agree, unless he decided to shot 26-27 times a game, I don't see him doing it, but it may be possible due to the lack of physical play...his freakish energy level would be even better today

[sekachu]

I think Jordan is GOAT. He was awesome. But posts like this really make me belive that half of those claims comes from teenagers that only saw Jordan play on youtube. You know that youtube that will only show you his amazing made shots, amazing dunks/lay-ups,... Teams today make science out of defense. Today its defense>offense. Back than it was offense>defense (with few exeptions, that still played worse defense that we watch today). Yes it is true that there is no hand checking rule today, but there was no double-team on defense in 90s. Jordan today would get double-teamed on at least 50% of possessions and he would be FORCED to give the ball away (which is the right thing to do in those situations). And also avarage SG in this era is far more athletic and better defender. I think Jordans CAREER ppg would be same as it was at best (would probably decrease for 1-2 ppg). He would probably get 2-3 apg more. So IMO its impossible for ANY player to avarage 40 ppg for whole season (maybe few weeks) in todays NBA.


He is GOAT, not GOD.

edit: he could, but that would give his team no chance to even be contender (chucking mode activated for whole year). But than again if they would chuck as hard, I can see guys like Bron, Wade, Melo, Kobe, Iverson, Durant... do it to.


NO double team defense on MJ in 90s????? are you serious?
MJ did get a lot of double teams, but he knows how to avoid it, more than that, his teammate know how to create free space for him by going to the other side, MJ would always quick enough to make his shot before the double team running at him. He is just too quick.

[Jacks3]

lol

Dude couldn't even come close to 40 PPG in the mid-80's aka the worst era for defense ever. By far.

[jlip]

Do you all know how hard it is to avg. 40ppg over an entire season? It has only been done twice by one person in the 60+ year history of the NBA and he had to play the basically every single second of every single game at an extremely fast pace, and with the green light to just shoot at will just to accomplish that feat. Seriously people, you can consider MJ GOAT, but let's be realistic here.

[LJJ]

Tyriq Evans

Darren Williams

:lol :D

[Boston C's]

lol

Dude couldn't even come close to 40 PPG in the mid-80's aka the worst era for defense ever. By far.

How were the mid 80's the worst defensive era ever... i see most of your posts claiming that this era is the best in defense when in fact its not even close the mid 80's to mid 90's were the best defensive era... dont be fooled by defensive statistics back in the day everything was fast paced and there was way more possessions for teams then we see in todays game... the early 2000's they changed the rules to favor offensive players literally... thats seriously the reason why they changed the rules

But back to the question I think Jordan is capable of averaging 40 ppg on a shit team but I dont see him doing it... he would have to jack up a lot of shots but if anyone could do it it would be M.J

[Micku]

No.

Jordan would have to take a bunch of shots in order to get the 40 mark, and that would destroy the team. Plus, it was easier for players in the 80s to rank up points because they shot quickly. In order for him to average that much, he would have to get the green light to shoot a lot from the coach, and it would be on a bad team.

But...you could argue that Jordan would either score more easier since perimeter players have more space to operate now, and driving to the hole is easier now. Jordan could probably still score 30+ ppg on 50+% shooting or whatever crazy numbers he did in his prime, especially considering Wade and LBJ could do it and Jordan was better offensively than both of them.

[Psileas]

Do you all know how hard it is to avg. 40ppg over an entire season? It has only been done twice by one person in the 60+ year history of the NBA and he had to play the basically every single second of every single game at an extremely fast pace, and with the green light to just shoot at will just to accomplish that feat. Seriously people, you can consider MJ GOAT, but let's be realistic here.

Well, I kinda agree, but he didn't need all these "just to accomplish that feat". He exceeded the 40 ppg barrier by 26% and 12% respectively, so he didn't need all this stuff combined.

But yes, nobody is averaging 40 ppg today, not while playing for a self-respecting team that wants to win more than 25-30 games. Guys with extreme physical gifts and talent like LeBron, Wade (in the pre-"merger" era) and Durant, who already get to the line a lot, "only" peak at around 30 ppg. Only Kobe and Iverson got significantly over this, and this only happened once for each, both cases in the same season (not a coincidence), and they still never got really close to 40 ppg. The leading 5 scorers in the league will average something like this:

30
28
27
26
26

Honestly, how realistic do you think would be such a re-arrangement:

40
30
28
27
26

This has never happened in the last almost 50 years.

[MaxFly]

Jordan comes across as a very honest guy in his interviews. Very, very little bravado, just very honest. And back when he was playing he said that he could average 40 ppg, but that it would not be good for the team. So that's back then, imagine now.

Back then, teams were giving up 110 points per game on 48% shooting on average. I know many believe that it was almost impossible to score in the 80s, but that isn't the case. If Jordan took enough shots, I'm sure he could average 40, back then and in this era, but it's not something he could do with ease today. He would have to make a concerted effort to gun for 40.

[Micku]

How were the mid 80's the worst defensive era ever... i see most of your posts claiming that this era is the best in defense when in fact its not even close the mid 80's to mid 90's were the best defensive era... dont be fooled by defensive statistics back in the day everything was fast paced and there was way more possessions for teams then we see in todays game... the early 2000's they changed the rules to favor offensive players literally... thats seriously the reason why they changed the rules


The 80s didn't really have bad defense, but the offense was different. Their perimeter defense was unusually in coparison to today. The early 80s sag off of their perimeter players normally because they didn't believe they would make or shoot the long jumper. They would make exceptions for players to stick like glue. If they played like that against any team today, they would get kill. But, the early 80s rules made it easier to guard man vs man (70s were better). So, if they tried, then they would have the ability to bother anybody.

The mid 80s and the 90s were better at guarding the long jumper because more players started to take it. Plus, they started to play better help defense because they were inspired by the Pistons, since they won titles despite their gap in talent in comparison to the Celtics and Lakers.

Anything interior defense in the 80s is better than in the 00s. The 80s didn't have great spacing like nowadays, plus the big guys could camp in the paint and block you. Plus, the 80s allowed you to be more physical all over the floor, including the paint area.

However you can say that the rules makes it a bit difficult now for post players to operate. Whatever it is zone, perimeter players hogging the ball cuz they can, or the rules makes it for the post players have to operate quicker. Or you can say that post players just suck nowadays. Either that or it could be a mixture of both.

With that said, the 80s and early 90s shot selection is better to me. They operate inside out better. And they were better on the mid-range shots.

But it was a different style of game. You shouldn't really compare. If you were to place a 00s team to face against an 80s team, then things would be extremely weird. The 80s would run constantly, and they would take the first good shot avaiable to them. The 00s team would try to slow the game down, and run down the clock to get their execute their plays. Not to mention the different rules. The 80s would be allowed to do things that are illegal today, and vice versa. Different times. I wonder who would control the pace though?

[KevinNYC]

NO double team defense on MJ in 90s????? are you serious?
MJ did get a lot of double teams, but he knows how to avoid it, more than that, his teammate know how to create free space for him by going to the other side, MJ would always quick enough to make his shot before the double team running at him. He is just too quick.

The rule was you couldn't double-team a player until he got the ball in his hands.
This video is a good example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS_UJOEpROk#t=3m12s)of this. The situation is Boston and Chicago are tied at 100 and Boston has the ball, so everyone in the building knows it's going to Larry Bird. Boston brings the ball up and then sends everyone to the other side of the paint and Bird posts up Pippen. Watch Jordan. He's waiting to double-team Bird. He knows the ball is going to Bird, but he has to be on the other side of the lane and can't double-team until Bird has the ball.

[MaxFly]

LOL you must be kidding, this is the average defensive player in todays game, let me repeat AVERAGE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni7t4swtdYw

Reggie Lewis would have been such a great player. :(

[Stuckey]

probably not, he's kinda old but on a lucky night against the knicks he could

[MaxFly]

The rule was you couldn't double-team a player until he got the ball in his hands.
This video is a good example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS_UJOEpROk#t=3m12s)of this. The situation is Boston and Chicago are tied at 100 and Boston has the ball, so everyone in the building knows it's going to Larry Bird. Boston brings the ball up and then sends everyone to the other side of the paint and Bird posts up Pippen. Watch Jordan. He's waiting to double-team Bird. He knows the ball is going to Bird, but he has to be on the other side of the lane and can't double-team until Bird has the ball.

Good post. Incidentally, the defense leading up to the double of Bird was illegal. You had to be within arms reach of your man. Your man couldn't be at the three point line while you were in the paint waiting to double.

[DuMa]

he could but realistically he could probably do it on a few teams that cant score for shit. like for example, milwaukee bucks, or hey the 2nd lowest scoring team in the NBA, his own bobcats LOL

[Droid101]

Good post. Incidentally, the defense leading up to the double of Bird was illegal. You had to be within arms reach of your man. Your man couldn't be at the three point line while you were in the paint waiting to double.
This times a million. Double teams/zone defense just didn't happen to stop penetration back then. It was illegal.

[gengiskhan]

LOL you must be kidding, this is the average defensive player in todays game, let me repeat AVERAGE

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ni7t4swtdYw

what a joke. :roll:

do they even play defense in NBA today. :roll:

average defensive play my a55. :roll:

Reggie took full advantage of extra long wingspan & height, kudos to him

when is the last time you've seen a single turnaround jumper contested so closely in NBA in last 5-6 yrs.

You are a dumb a5s.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Back then, teams were giving up 110 points per game on 48% shooting on average. I know many believe that it was almost impossible to score in the 80s, but that isn't the case. If Jordan took enough shots, I'm sure he could average 40, back then and in this era, but it's not something he could do with ease today. He would have to make a concerted effort to gun for 40.

MaxFly, what sort of numbers do you believe would 23-28 year old Jordan average in the '06-'11 era? Assume an average team.

[TheMan]

lol

Dude couldn't even come close to 40 PPG in the mid-80's aka the worst era for defense ever. By far.
In his third year in the league, MJ avgd 37.1 pts pg with a 48% fga on 27.8 shots per gm...in todays NBA where just breathing on LBJ, Wade or Kobe and it's called a foul, MJ, who avgd almost 12 fta that season, translate that to today and those could easily be 15 or 16 fta pr gm.

Prme MJ could've avgd 40 a game in today's marshmellow NBA.

[Droid101]

in todays NBA where just breathing on LBJ, Wade or Kobe and it's called a foul, MJ, who avgd almost 12 fta that season, translate that to today and those could easily be 15 or 16 fta pr gm.

No... back then you had to rotate super late or be called for illegal defense... so when you got there, you were generally out of position and prone to foul.

Now, defenses have a line set up to block access to the lane before the ball-handler even dribbles (if it's a high volume wing scorer like Wade/Kobe/etc).

[Jacks3]

How were the mid 80's the worst defensive era ever... i see most of your posts claiming that this era is the best in defense when in fact its not even close the mid 80's to mid 90's were the best defensive era... dont be fooled by defensive statistics back in the day everything was fast paced and there was way more possessions for teams then we see in todays game...

A lot more possessions/much higher-pace is one of the key reasons defenses were so much worse. It's easier to put up numbers when a player is getting a bunch of points in transition or semi-transition. Just watch any game from the 80's. The defense is clearly worse than today and most importantly it's not as emphasized as it is today. Back then teams would score and the opposing team wouldn't give a shit-they'd just quickly inbound the ball and look the push. Compare that today where the pace is much slower, defenses are much more advanced, and the scouting is much better. Guys like Battier have hundred-page reports on the tendencies/sweet-spots/strengths of guys like Bryant. You think that was the case in the 80's/mid 90's?

Hell no.

Jordan wouldn't come remotely close to 40 PPG.

[Micku]

No... back then you had to rotate super late or be called for illegal defense... so when you got there, you were generally out of position and prone to foul.

Now, defenses have a line set up to block access to the lane before the ball-handler even dribbles (if it's a high volume wing scorer like Wade/Kobe/etc).

You should check out how often the illegal D was called. But, back then the teams did have good rotation. At least the good teams. The spacing wasn't as good at it was now, and they have more ppl in the paint area. It was harder to drive back then in comparison to now.

But once a man gets beat, the teams are always prone to foul the guy.

[Jacks3]

In his third year in the league, MJ avgd 37.1 pts pg with a 48% fga on 27.8 shots per gm...in todays NBA where just breathing on LBJ, Wade or Kobe and it's called a foul, MJ, who avgd almost 12 fta that season, translate that to today and those could easily be 15 or 16 fta pr gm.

Prme MJ could've avgd 40 a game in today's marshmellow NBA.
15 or 16 FTA per game? :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Micku]

A lot more possessions/much higher-pace is one of the key reasons defenses were so much worse. It's easier to put up numbers when a player is getting a bunch of points in transition or semi-transition. Just watch any game from the 80's. The defense is clearly worse than today and most importantly it's not as emphasized as it is today. Back then teams would score and the opposing team wouldn't give a shit-they'd just quickly inbound the ball and look the push. Compare that today where the pace is much slower, defenses are much more advanced, and the scouting is much better. Guys like Battier have hundred-page reports on the tendencies/sweet-spots/strengths of guys like Bryant. You think that was the case in the 80's/mid 90's?

Hell no.

Jordan wouldn't come remotely close to 40 PPG.

No it doesn't. Look at the 70s, they had very good defense and they played at a high pace with a lot of possessions.

The 80s just took the first good shot avaiable. They ran down the court, set a screen and shot the ball at mid-range. But it's true that defense is more emphasis now than the early 80s. Around the mid 80s or so, players started to defend the long jumper more.

It depends on the rules and philosophy of the era.

[Droid101]

Relax, hipsters.

Here's a pace-adjusted list of all the top scoring seasons in NBA history, along with how much higher (or lower) the person's True Shooting percentage was compared to the league average.

Notice, Jordan's best scoring season is barely better than Kobe's, at the same relative True Shooting percentage.

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/01/28/top-scoring-rate-seasons-in-nba-history/

http://www.backpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/top-scoring-rates-regular-season.jpg

Notice also, Jordan basically kicks everyone's ass. Nobody is saying he isn't the GOAT. But he simply isn't going to score 40 PPG in today's league. Wouldn't happen.

Also, this, in case you were wondering why Wilt isn't on here! (And, subsequently, why I personally think Kobe's 81 was tougher to do than Wilt's 100.)


I normalize most of my stats to an estimated 75 possessions played, which for points produces a “scoring rate,” per se. For instance, Wilt Chamberlain averaged over 50 points per game in 1962. But he played more than 130 possessions a game using the simple method of pace estimation. That comes out to about 28.1 pts/75, not enough to make the cut here.

[Jacks3]

No it doesn't. Look at the 70s, they had very good defense and they played at a high pace with a lot of possessions.

The 80s just took the first good shot avaiable. They ran down the court, set a screen and shot the ball at mid-range. But it's true that defense is more emphasis now than the early 80s. Around the mid 80s or so, players started to defend the long jumper more.

It depends on the rules and philosophy of the era.
So you're denying that faster pace=easier scoring opportunities in transition and semi-transition?

Not sure if serious...

The 70's were weaker defensively than today too. It's just the league was weaker and more diluted thanks to expansion and the split with the ABA.

[Micku]

So you're denying that faster pace=easier scoring opportunities in transition and semi-transition?

Not sure if serious...

The 70's were weaker defensively than today too. It's just the league was weaker and more diluted thanks to expansion and the split with the ABA.

I'm denying that faster pacing=defense being weaker, which you stated in your last post.

Faster pacing will lead to easier scoring in transition, but the 80s even in the half court set still shot pretty fast on the shot clock. It was a different time, and you can't really defend when teams are running really fast and shooting the ball very quickly and making it 50% of the time.

And the 70s don't have weaker defense than today. The 70s probably haver better defense on the perimeter. Too physical.

[Psileas]

Something about this:

[QUOTE]I normalize most of my stats to an estimated 75 possessions played, which for points produces a

[Carbine]

Could he? Yeah, if it was a goal of his and the coach allowed him to fire away whenever he wanted.



Would he? No.

[andgar923]

People forget that MJ was dropping in the mid 20s by half as a Wiz when his body had rest, on multiple occasions. This gives us a small glimpse of what he could've done if he was in his prime.

If a rested 38-40 year old MJ could drop in the mid 20 pt range by halftime (numerous times), why would it be so hard to imagine a prime MJ not avg 40ppg.

Again... re-read the bolded part.

MJ is a combination of Bron, Wade and Kobe.... he could drop that many points while being efficient at doing so.

[gengiskhan]

People forget that MJ was dropping in the mid 20s by half as a Wiz when his body had rest, on multiple occasions. This gives us a small glimpse of what he could've done if he was in his prime.

If a rested 38-40 year old MJ could drop in the mid 20 pt range by halftime (numerous times), why would it be so hard to imagine a prime MJ not avg 40ppg.

Again... re-read the bolded part.

MJ is a combination of Bron, Wade and Kobe.... he could drop that many points while being efficient at doing so.

agreed.

kobe'tards & 10 yr old NBA fans are retarded!

They just dont understand the concept of MJ's lightening first step after jab step or head fake, shoulder fake, stutter step, palming the ball & getting to the rim with fewest dribbles possible.

Rookie MJ will be dunking every 3rd FG. 80%FG attempts will be just inside the 14 feet. No handchecking, No physical contact means nobody stopping MJ.

'84-'90 MJ was a force of nature. A super athlete with exact basketball figure with extra large hand size & incredible stamina & strength. He showed that right from the rookie season. He just doesnt get tired or winded. With relaxed defensive rules, only God will help the opposition from MJs wrath.

watch this game.

49pts / 15rebs / 5ast / 6 stls @ 62%FG against the best toughest physical defense in the NBAin 1984-85. Imagine what this guy would do today (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lusu0lEgb7U) :bowdown:

[andgar923]

agreed.

kobe'tards & 10 yr old NBA fans are retarded!

They just dont understand the concept of MJ's lightening first step after jab step or head fake, shoulder fake, stutter step, palming the ball & getting to the rim with fewest dribbles possible.

Rookie MJ will be dunking every 3rd FG. 80%FG attempts will be just inside the 14 feet. No handchecking, No physical contact means nobody stopping MJ.

'94-'90 MJ was a force of nature. A super athlete with exact basketball figure with extra large hand size & incredible stamina & strength. He showed that right from the rookie season. He just doesnt get tired or winded. With relaxed defensive rules, only God will help the opposition from MJs wrath.

watch this game.

49pts / 15rebs / 5ast / 6 stls @ 62%FG against the best toughest physical defense in the NBAin 1984-85. Imagine what this guy would do today (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lusu0lEgb7U) :bowdown:

People think we're exaggerating, but all we gotta do is look at some of Wade and Kobe's abilities.

Imagine if Kobe had Wade's ability to penetrate at will, Wade's first step and relentless attack mentality.

And if that isn't something they can fathom....

Imagine if Wade shot a higher ft% and could shoot the mid, hit turnarounds, post up, finish at the rim better. Hell.. if Wade shoots MJ's ft % you can book him for at least an extra 2-3 ppg. But MJ was two times the player Wade will ever be (yeah... I said ever... he's on a slow decline).

Wade hitting mid range shots consistently, hitting fadeaways and shots from 'every angle' and not just the left side of the floor.

Oh... and when he was feeling good as a Wiz, he was dropping 30+ pts with 'ease', and this as a 38-40 year old. Again.... people should go back and watch the tapes. They mentioned 'zone' MJ was KILLING and exploiting the shit outta this supposed advanced modern day defense, and he was old as shit. There's plays where he blew by his defender without the handchecking, people actually believe that a prime MJ, a 6'6 player with Iverson-like speed won't be able to beat "rinky dink" zones? :roll:

[Doctor Rivers]

agreed.

kobe'tards & 10 yr old NBA fans are retarded!

They just dont understand the concept of MJ's lightening first step after jab step or head fake, shoulder fake, stutter step, palming the ball & getting to the rim with fewest dribbles possible.

Rookie MJ will be dunking every 3rd FG. 80%FG attempts will be just inside the 14 feet. No handchecking, No physical contact means nobody stopping MJ.

'84-'90 MJ was a force of nature. A super athlete with exact basketball figure with extra large hand size & incredible stamina & strength. He showed that right from the rookie season. He just doesnt get tired or winded. With relaxed defensive rules, only God will help the opposition from MJs wrath.

watch this game.

49pts / 15rebs / 5ast / 6 stls @ 62%FG against the best toughest physical defense in the NBAin 1984-85. Imagine what this guy would do today (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lusu0lEgb7U) :bowdown:

Wade is just as an explosive scorer as MJ ever was

[andgar923]

Wade is just as an explosive scorer as MJ ever was
:roll: :oldlol:

[sekachu]

The rule was you couldn't double-team a player until he got the ball in his hands.
This video is a good example (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HS_UJOEpROk#t=3m12s)of this. The situation is Boston and Chicago are tied at 100 and Boston has the ball, so everyone in the building knows it's going to Larry Bird. Boston brings the ball up and then sends everyone to the other side of the paint and Bird posts up Pippen. Watch Jordan. He's waiting to double-team Bird. He knows the ball is going to Bird, but he has to be on the other side of the lane and can't double-team until Bird has the ball.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ9dBEcI_hE&feature=channel_video_title

This video shows some parts of MJ being double teamed before he had the ball, Particularly at 1:32. I am not saying you are wrong, but it did happened back then. bascially they dont often do that, you rarely see kobe, wade, lebron or others got doubled before they had the ball.

[jlip]

agreed.

kobe'tards & 10 yr old NBA fans are retarded!

They just dont understand the concept of MJ's lightening first step after jab step or head fake, shoulder fake, stutter step, palming the ball & getting to the rim with fewest dribbles possible.

Rookie MJ will be dunking every 3rd FG. 80%FG attempts will be just inside the 14 feet. No handchecking, No physical contact means nobody stopping MJ.

'84-'90 MJ was a force of nature. A super athlete with exact basketball figure with extra large hand size & incredible stamina & strength. He showed that right from the rookie season. He just doesnt get tired or winded. With relaxed defensive rules, only God will help the opposition from MJs wrath.

watch this game.

49pts / 15rebs / 5ast / 6 stls @ 62%FG against the best toughest physical defense in the NBAin 1984-85. Imagine what this guy would do today (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lusu0lEgb7U) :bowdown:

This video and game are bad examples of MJ's ability to dominate against a good defense. There was absolutely nothing great or tough about the '85 Pistons' defense at all. They had not become the "Bad Boy's" yet. That season the average team gave up 110.8ppg on 49.1% shooting. The Pistons were much worse than that defensively. They gave up 113.5ppg on 49.6% shooting. Even if one considers advanced stats such as defensive rating, the '85 Pistons is still a bad example. Their defensive rating of 107.2 was only slightly better than the league's average of 107.9. A game against the '85 Bucks or Celtics probably would have been better.

[I.R.Beast]

MJ averged 37 ppg and stop pretending teams play Zone all gm. They barley ever do. Larry brown,Pat Rileyetc... all say zone is.BS and the best defense play man with help. MJ would tear this
teams generally dont play straight zone all game, but zone concepts are used throughout the entirety of the game where players match up with offensively inept players will be defending an area of the court as opposed to his man. Jordan would not have the streaight line drive to the lane that players had in the illegal defense era. With Zone defense being legal these days team are better equipped to force star players pass and/or deny them the ball. Jordan's era was more physical, but that didnt constitute defense being better. He would not average 40 points. Jordan abilities as a player are so exaggerated sometimes.

[andgar923]

teams generally dont play straight zone all game, but zone concepts are used throughout the entirety of the game where players match up with offensively inept players will be defending an area of the court as opposed to his man. Jordan would not have the streaight line drive to the lane that players had in the illegal defense era. With Zone defense being legal these days team are better equipped to force star players pass and/or deny them the ball. Jordan's era was more physical, but that didnt constitute defense being better. He would not average 40 points. Jordan abilities as a player are so exaggerated sometimes.
:roll: :oldlol: :lol

[Holy Random]

Well, I kinda agree, but he didn't need all these "just to accomplish that feat". He exceeded the 40 ppg barrier by 26% and 12% respectively, so he didn't need all this stuff combined.

But yes, nobody is averaging 40 ppg today, not while playing for a self-respecting team that wants to win more than 25-30 games. Guys with extreme physical gifts and talent like LeBron, Wade (in the pre-"merger" era) and Durant, who already get to the line a lot, "only" peak at around 30 ppg. Only Kobe and Iverson got significantly over this, and this only happened once for each, both cases in the same season (not a coincidence), and they still never got really close to 40 ppg. The leading 5 scorers in the league will average something like this:

30
28
27
26
26

Honestly, how realistic do you think would be such a re-arrangement:

40
30
28
27
26

This has never happened in the last almost 50 years.

86/87 was pretty close

Jordan 37
Wilkins 29
English 29
Bird 28
Kiki 27

Not saying that I disagree with you though as your point makes perfect sense but I find people like to point at pace for the 80's/90's and fail to realize that the Bulls were always among the slowest teams in the league in terms of pace so for Jordan himself it wasn't nearly the possession advantage people like to make it seem.

[juju151111]

teams generally dont play straight zone all game, but zone concepts are used throughout the entirety of the game where players match up with offensively inept players will be defending an area of the court as opposed to his man. Jordan would not have the streaight line drive to the lane that players had in the illegal defense era. With Zone defense being legal these days team are better equipped to force star players pass and/or deny them the ball. Jordan's era was more physical, but that didnt constitute defense being better. He would not average 40 points. Jordan abilities as a player are so exaggerated sometimes.
LJ and Dwayne wade avged 30+ ppg in this era and they barley had a consistent jumper or post game. The Perimeter players stats went up after 05. How could they guard MJ and cant touch him? He too quick and crafty. They could barley stop MJ when he was 39 with surgery ridden knees.

[MaxFly]

MaxFly, what sort of numbers do you believe would 23-28 year old Jordan average in the '06-'11 era? Assume an average team.

I think it's tough to say. There are a number of variables to take into account that would affect his numbers. I can say that I believe his average numbers would suffer a slight decline in this present era.

[juju151111]

I think it's tough to say. There are a number of variables to take into account that would affect his numbers. I can say that I believe his average numbers would suffer a slight decline in this present era.
Decline? Gilbert freaking arenas was scoring 30 in 06 after rule changes.

[I.R.Beast]

LJ and Dwayne wade avged 30+ ppg in this era and they barley had a consistent jumper or post game. The Perimeter players stats went up after 05. How could they guard MJ and cant touch him? He too quick and crafty. They could barley stop MJ when he was 39 with surgery ridden knees.
They averaged 30 by dominating the ball. Jordans first 8 seasons came in the weakest defensive era of basketball...Wheere teams were averaging up to 120 ppg, he never made it 2 to 40 ppg then what makes you think he'd do it now. Less possessions, slower pace, more congestion in the lane. Jordan averaged 22 shots for his career, so i say he'd max out at 34.

I just dont believe that MJ would be so much better than guys like wade, James, and Kobe had he played today in his prime. I see his era as deprived of competition at his position, THe average SG now is Jordan height...Hawkins, Eloh, Hornacek, Starks, Dumars, etc. Were 6-3 180 lbs shooting guards trying to guard a 6 ft 6 205-215 lb jordan with freakish athleticism. The league has caught up since then. Jordan most likely still ends up being the best had he played today with his competative drive and work ethic alone, but there would still be a debate as to who is the best player.

[andgar923]

86/87 was pretty close

Jordan 37
Wilkins 29
English 29
Bird 28
Kiki 27

Not saying that I disagree with you though as your point makes perfect sense but I find people like to point at pace for the 80's/90's and fail to realize that the Bulls were always among the slowest teams in the league in terms of pace so for Jordan himself it wasn't nearly the possession advantage people like to make it seem.

this is what I don't get when people use that argument.

MJ's shot attempts per game were only slightly more than what current players attempt, and that's because he also played more minutes.

They'd have a legit argument if MJ took a distinguishable amount of shots, but this wasn't the case. Fast paced didn't mean more shots 'for an individual' player, it was a more balanced attack. It meant more shots for more players, not just one individual player.

Another thing worth noting is the ft attempts per game.

Wade has more ft attempts per game, than MJ did.
If we take away Kobe's first couple of season (as Kobe fans love to do when it's convenient for them), there isn't much difference than MJ's career fta pg, and Kobe isn't the aggressive slasher that MJ or Wade are.

A quick look at Bron's ftapg also show that there isn't much of a difference, even tho MJ played more minutes than all of them (per game) and attacked more than both Kobe and Bron.

[andgar923]

They averaged 30 by dominating the ball. Jordans first 8 seasons came in the weakest defensive era of basketball...Wheere teams were averaging up to 120 ppg, he never made it 2 to 40 ppg then what makes you think he'd do it now. Less possessions, slower pace, more congestion in the lane. Jordan averaged 22 shots for his career, so i say he'd max out at 34.

I just dont believe that MJ would be so much better than guys like wade, James, and Kobe had he played today in his prime. I see his era as deprived of competition at his position, THe average SG now is Jordan height...Hawkins, Eloh, Hornacek, Starks, Dumars, etc. Were 6-3 180 lbs shooting guards trying to guard a 6 ft 6 205-215 lb jordan with freakish athleticism. The league has caught up since then. Jordan most likely still ends up being the best had he played today with his competative drive and work ethic alone, but there would still be a debate as to who is the best player.

:roll: :oldlol: :lol

[I.R.Beast]

LJ and Dwayne wade avged 30+ ppg in this era and they barley had a consistent jumper or post game. The Perimeter players stats went up after 05. How could they guard MJ and cant touch him? He too quick and crafty. They could barley stop MJ when he was 39 with surgery ridden knees.
Please spare me with your gross exaggeration of Wizards jordan..

[MaxFly]

Decline? Gilbert freaking arenas was scoring 30 in 06 after rule changes.

Arenas got to 29.3 points while playing 42.3 minutes, taking 21 shots and close to 7 threes a game on 37% shooting from the three point line.

[juju151111]

They averaged 30 by dominating the ball. Jordans first 8 seasons came in the weakest defensive era of basketball...Wheere teams were averaging up to 120 ppg, he never made it 2 to 40 ppg then what makes you think he'd do it now. Less possessions, slower pace, more congestion in the lane. Jordan averaged 22 shots for his career, so i say he'd max out at 34.

I just dont believe that MJ would be so much better than guys like wade, James, and Kobe had he played today in his prime. I see his era as deprived of competition at his position, THe average SG now is Jordan height...Hawkins, Eloh, Hornacek, Starks, Dumars, etc. Were 6-3 180 lbs shooting guards trying to guard a 6 ft 6 205-215 lb jordan with freakish athleticism. The league has caught up since then. Jordan most likely still ends up being the best had he played today with his competative drive and work ethic alone, but there would still be a debate as to who is the best player.
Debate H!aaaaaaaaaaaaa If MJ is playing today, he is automatically the best player. Anyways back on topic. You have to look at fga. Who cares what teams were avging, look at MJ FG and decide. Lol you just named short players who Nj went against. I can name that for Kome too. Jason kidd,Lee(09 finals), Eric Gordon etc.... MJ was guarded by 6'6 Wilkins,6'7clyde,6'7 Cooper,6'6 reggae Lewis etc.... Stay off the pipe.

[andgar923]

Debate H!aaaaaaaaaaaaa If MJ is playing today, he is automatically the best player. Anyways back on topic. You have to look at fga. Who cares what teams were avging, look at MJ FG and decide. Lol you just named short players who Nj went against. I can name that for Kome too. Jason kidd,Lee(09 finals), Eric Gordon etc.... MJ was guarded by 6'6 Wilkins,6'7clyde,6'7 Cooper,6'6 reggae Lewis etc.... Stay off the pipe.

Forgot Kobe stopper JJ Reddick.

[macpierce]

it anyone could do it..........it'd probably be michael but carrying that type of offensive load for the season is such a huge burden........defenses know to key in on you.........defenses shading over to you in a type of zone........ugh

[juju151111]

Arenas got to 29.3 points while playing 42.3 minutes, taking 21 shots and close to 7 threes a game on 37% shooting from the three point line.
What's your point? He was still able to do it. Iverson/Kobe etc.... all went up in 06 because of Bitch made rules. The refs has since allowed more contact, but 06 was the worse. Wade was getting FTs by tripping on him self. MJ would avging 40 in 06.

[OldSchoolBBall]

I think it's tough to say. There are a number of variables to take into account that would affect his numbers. I can say that I believe his average numbers would suffer a slight decline in this present era.

As compared to what? Give hypothetical numbers.

Honestly, you had Kobe at 35+ ppg/45% FG, Iverson (and an older Iverson) at 33 pts/8 ast/46% FG, Lebron at 31 ppg/49% FG along with Wade/Arenas/Melo having huge years in 2006, but somehow I'm not supposed to believe that Jordan could average 36 ppg/47-49% FG for a season or two? Doubtful. None of these guys except Kobe are even in Jordan's league as scorers.

[andgar923]

it anyone could do it..........it'd probably be michael but carrying that type of offensive load for the season is such a huge burden........defenses know to key in on you.........defenses shading over to you in a type of zone........ugh

How so?

Wade, Kobe and Bron have shot the type of shots needed to avg 40pts per game, or at least come very close to doing so.

MJ would make up for the lack of 3pt shots with free throw attempts. Driving to the hole would put more pressure on the defense, as he'd be attacking more creating more fta and at least 1-2 and1 per game.

[eliteballer]

Jordan's inferior handle and 3 shot would get exposed, and he would have to expend more energy guarding all the slashers at the wing positions....

[andgar923]

Jordan's inferior handle and 3 shot would get exposed, and he would have to expend more energy guarding all the slashers at the wing positions....

C/s

Just how it was exposed as a Wizard.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Jordan's inferior handle and 3 shot would get exposed, and he would have to expend more energy guarding all the slashers at the wing positions....

Hysterical that this troll actually believes that. :oldlol:

[bingo123]

this is what I don't get when people use that argument.

MJ's shot attempts per game were only slightly more than what current players attempt, and that's because he also played more minutes.

They'd have a legit argument if MJ took a distinguishable amount of shots, but this wasn't the case. Fast paced didn't mean more shots 'for an individual' player, it was a more balanced attack. It meant more shots for more players, not just one individual player.

Another thing worth noting is the ft attempts per game.

Wade has more ft attempts per game, than MJ did.
If we take away Kobe's first couple of season (as Kobe fans love to do when it's convenient for them), there isn't much difference than MJ's career fta pg, and Kobe isn't the aggressive slasher that MJ or Wade are.

A quick look at Bron's ftapg also show that there isn't much of a difference, even tho MJ played more minutes than all of them (per game) and attacked more than both Kobe and Bron.

I dont exactly know what your point is but i will reply to your post (to many facts are wrong).In that 37 ppg MJ had 27.8fga. MJ career avarage was 23.3 fga (not including Wizards days) , James is at 20.6 fga and Wade is at 18.4 fga. Margin of 2.7 and 4.9 is not that small. At their fg% that gives Lebron around 3 ppg and Wade around 5 ppg more for their avarages. People are making big story out of fta. Jorand avg 8.7 (not including Wizards), Lebron is 8.9 and Wade is 9.1. Are you guys serious when you say things like "Jordan would avarage 15 fta!"? We are not comparing Jordan to some slow, unathletic,... guys. These are all world class athletes and they are players that their game is petty much based on slashing (Bryant being exeption here). In todays game i think Jordan would avg 10-11 fga. You are wrong with minutes played as well Lebron 40.1 mpg, Jordan 38.6, Wade 37.6 (again i dont know why you brought that up). And i cant agree that MJ attacked the paint more than Lebron. Cavs Lebron was all about getting to the rim. One more time, Jordan was/is smart enough not to avarage more than 22-23fga (like it or not, pace is slower today).

Again MJ is GOAT, not GOD. He would be the best player if he played today, but not as clear as some people claim. People really need to take their nostalgic glasses off.

[N0Skillz]

with 80 shots a game ofcourse.

[DJ Leon Smith]

Jordan's inferior handle and 3 shot would get exposed, and he would have to expend more energy guarding all the slashers at the wing positions....

Why would he have to expend more energy on D if we're in this magical zone era that would shut Jordan down because everyone is double teamed every time they touch the ball. Surely he'd waste less energy on D then.

[Rnbizzle]

:lol @ Old guys defending their era..

Todays defenses are so much better, get over it.

[Doranku]

:roll: @ thinking prime Jordan couldn't average 36-37 ppg on 47-49% shooting around the '06 season. Give him that same Bulls team where he had to do it all by himself and I guarantee he's averaging close to 40 a game. Hell, he averaged 37+ a game back in the late 80's; I'm sure he could replicate that if he played in the '06 season.

[Inactive]

:lol @ Old guys defending their era..

Todays defenses are so much better, get over it.:lol @ young guys thinking they have a more accurate perspective, when comparing eras, than people who actually lived through them.

[Rnbizzle]

:lol @ young guys thinking they have a more accurate perspective, when comparing eras, than people who actually lived through them.
how does it go again..

men lie.. women lie.. numbers dont.

[DJ Leon Smith]

how does it go again..

men lie.. women lie.. numbers dont.

John Hollinger is that you?

[guy]

I dont exactly know what your point is but i will reply to your post (to many facts are wrong).In that 37 ppg MJ had 27.8fga. MJ career avarage was 23.3 fga (not including Wizards days) , James is at 20.6 fga and Wade is at 18.4 fga. Margin of 2.7 and 4.9 is not that small. At their fg% that gives Lebron around 3 ppg and Wade around 5 ppg more for their avarages. People are making big story out of fta. Jorand avg 8.7 (not including Wizards), Lebron is 8.9 and Wade is 9.1. Are you guys serious when you say things like "Jordan would avarage 15 fta!"? We are not comparing Jordan to some slow, unathletic,... guys. These are all world class athletes and they are players that their game is petty much based on slashing (Bryant being exeption here). In todays game i think Jordan would avg 10-11 fga. You are wrong with minutes played as well Lebron 40.1 mpg, Jordan 38.6, Wade 37.6 (again i dont know why you brought that up). And i cant agree that MJ attacked the paint more than Lebron. Cavs Lebron was all about getting to the rim. One more time, Jordan was/is smart enough not to avarage more than 22-23fga (like it or not, pace is slower today).

Again MJ is GOAT, not GOD. He would be the best player if he played today, but not as clear as some people claim. People really need to take their nostalgic glasses off.

That Jordan FGA average is also including the championship years where he had much better teams. When people are saying he could average 35+, they are assuming its on a team where he'd have to take a larger like the 80s Bulls or the 06-07 Lakers. If Kobe can manage to take 27 FGA per game, I don't see why Jordan couldn't do the same.

And by the way, Dwyane Wade in 06, 07, and 09 (his 3 best years where he took on a larger load), he averaged 9.8-10.7 FTA per game. Lebron from 06-10 was taking 9-10.3 FTA per game. Allen Iverson took 11.5 FTA per game in 2006. Kobe, primarily a jumpshooter, was taking 10-10.2 FTA from 05-07. Gilbert Arenas, primarily a jumpshooter, was taking 10 FTA per game in 06-07. You using career averages is stupid cause thats taking years where they weren't in there prime or in better team situations. Kobe and Gil were mostly jumpshooters, and although Wade and Lebron were great slashers as well, they were much more passive then Jordan was. I'd say Jordan is at least getting AI's FTA per game, which means a lower end of 11.5 and I'd say it could go as high as 12.5 per game. So lets say he shoots 80% on 12 FTA per game, 50% on 27 FGA per game, and makes 1.5 threes per game, then something like 38 ppg isn't out of the question.

[Lucifer]

It's easier than ever for perimeter players to penetrate. And that's something Michael Jordan excelled at. With these soft no touch rules he'd probably average 10+ ft's per game and penetrate at will.

40 ppg is realistic.

Yeah it's easy as hell to penetrate against a zone defense.

MJ averaging 40 ppg is realistic :roll: The myth of MJ lives on! I bet he can average 25/5/5 with just his left hand too right?

[TheMan]

Wade is just as an explosive scorer as MJ ever was
This is exactly the kind of quote you would expect from someone who never watched prime MJ, utterly ignorant.

[DixieNourmous]

40? if his outside shot is good possibly. but blowing past people for dunks is in the past. MJ evidently has worse problems than driving to the hole.....

http://www.LimpButtMonkeysMJordan.com