NBA 2K12 cover art to feature Jordan, Bird, Magic

[Richie2k6]

#NBA2K12 covers revealed, featuring Michael Jordan, Magic Johnson, and Larry Bird. Check them out here- on.fb.me/NBA2K12 (please RT)

http://a2.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/283451_10150726117195305_221292025304_19537664_391 9830_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash4/281444_10150726117520305_221292025304_19537672_765 0905_n.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/284876_10150726117885305_221292025304_19537679_292 4713_n.jpg

http://www.facebook.com/NBA2K

[Richie2k6]

i'm only feeling Jordan's.. should've changed the background colors for Magic and Bird's

[cteach111]

i'm only feeling Jordan's.. should've changed the background colors for Magic and Bird's

it's not that, but they've already used this theme already with 2k11. I guess I was assuming they'd use today's players

[insidehoops]

Huge fan of that art. Love the covers

- Jeff

[EnoughSaid]

Is only one going to be the official cover? Or could you buy any of them? I think they should have just put Dirk or Rose on the cover.

[MeLO MvP 15]

I was expecting a cover w magic and bird together.... Odd to have 3 and use Jordan again. I don't rly care too much, I just want a good game

[Brujesino]

it's not that, but they've already used this theme already with 2k11. I guess I was assuming they'd use today's players
Ya kinda of a let down but, i would think its pretty much a fact that there will be more then just jordan challenges.

[EnoughSaid]

If all they do is just change up the graphics, add a few more retro teams and a few more challenges, then I'm not buying it at all. I want the My Player mode fixed, the online servers fixed, the dumbass glitches fixed etc.

[mentallooser]

Guess I'll be picking up the Bird package then. Was hoping for Magic vs Bird, but w/e

[Maniak]

Its nice to have more emphasis on the older players. I too would have liked Magic v Bird.

I like how they're adding some design into the covers. Cool idea. I hope this game has some nice new features.

[Batz]

Hate the idea and overused design and effects. Love the game though.

[NBA4EVER]

Why is there an asterick by the logo that says #1 selling video game?

[Kellogs4toniee]

When I read the thread title, I was hoping that it would be all three of them together. I think that would be a real nice cover for three of the NBA's most popular players during the thriving 80's and 90's decades.

That Jordan one looks sick, but I already own 2011. From a pure cover standpoint, would seem pointless to me to have two covers of Jordan...


... Who am I kidding though. 95% probability I'm going to get the game, and 99% probability I will just get that Jordan cover. haha

[Rake2204]

I'm not usually someone who cares about cover art, as it usually does not have much influence on the game itself. However, these past two years may prove to be the exceptions, which is why I'm so excited about each cover. For 2K11, the cover hinted at the return of Michael Jordan. It seems relatively clear or certain that the three legends in 2K12 hints at an even deeper dive into NBA's history and classic teams.

I am a huge fan of the current NBA, but I feel it has been shortsighted take for video games to ignore the vast history of the league for so many years. I think the classic teams revival opened a whole new window for 2K last year. I think it's possible to provide the best current-day simulation and showcase the wonderful history of the game at the same time. I think there's enough production time and room to fit it all. And I think it's awesome.

This is unconfirmed, but I saw this posted at another site:

"A pre-order bonus could be a hint at what that might entail. Preorders will receive codes for two classic teams for use in the game, the 1990-1991 Golden State Warriors of Chris Mullin, Tim Hardaway and Mitch Richmond, and the 2000-2001 Sacramento Kings of Chris Webber, Vlade Divac and Jason Williams."

Does anyone else think this is a sign of pure awesomeness to come?

[MeLO MvP 15]

I'm hoping for Shaq and AI (seperate) versions in a few years. But if they add more to the Jordan Challenge type mode, most likely making it a Historic Challenge Mode... it would just be awesome.

[PrimeJohnnyDepp]

I just hope Nintendo makes a standalone Wii Sports Resorts basketball and implements some Wii Motion dunks and that's the best basketball on the market by far.

[Dave3]

They need to bring back the all decade team just so I can use players like Shaq, Tmac, AI, and Kobe in their primes again.

Edit: oh, and definitely do something about myplayer mode. On rookie the other team shoots 32% FG. On all star or w/e the next level up is, my team also shoots 32% FG. Why are NBA teams struggling to break 35% FG? My rebounding stats are inflated like crazy.

[Kblaze8855]

01 Kings? Wouldnt it have to be Shaq involved? Wouldnt be Kobe challenges. At least I wouldnt think so. I guess people would want them though.

[$LakerGold]

Oh YEAH BABY!! Come To PAPA!! Cuz shit just got REAL!!!
Ima get the Magic Johnson one...
I wonder if each one of them has different Game Modes like.. MJ Challenges..

[Rake2204]

They need to bring back the all decade team just so I can use players like Shaq, Tmac, AI, and Kobe in their primes again.
I'm not sure what console you have, but for the 360 and PC this year, there are some stellar classic teams (including all those players in their primes that you mentioned). The 360 has entire season rosters recreated, nearly every year from 1986 to 2007.

Granted, on the 360, many players from old teams are created (Robert Horry for example) but by and large, it's a stunning bit of fun. A lot of the bald former NBA players look eerily similar to their real life counterparts (Glen Rice, Nick Van Exel).

Mitch Richmond (360 created player):

http://community.2ksports.com/community/storage/media/v/l6/l5375/m5379805.jpg

Glen Rice (360 created player)
http://community.2ksports.com/community/storage/media/v/l6/l5385/m5389994.jpg

http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y99/randogu/m5358193.jpg

Regardless, the early indication seems to be that more "real" classic teams will be included this year and for that, I am excited.

[Rose]

I'm pumped. Needs a different background color. though.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

Whats with the universe theme in 2k11 and this one? I dont get it.

[niko]

THe cover should have a big $ and a hand with it's middle finger up. That would represent better this season.

[Rake2204]

I think it's also worth noting that Michael Jordan signed a three year extension with 2K, meaning he'll be in the game for the foreseeable future. I know many of us were wondering if his video game appearance would just be a one time deal.

[Dave3]

I'm not sure what console you have, but for the 360 and PC this year, there are some stellar classic teams (including all those players in their primes that you mentioned). The 360 has entire season rosters recreated, nearly every year from 1986 to 2007.

Granted, on the 360, many players from old teams are created (Robert Horry for example) but by and large, it's a stunning bit of fun. A lot of the bald former NBA players look eerily similar to their real life counterparts (Glen Rice, Nick Van Exel).

Mitch Richmond (360 created player):


Regardless, the early indication seems to be that more "real" classic teams will be included this year and for that, I am excited.
Where do you find those rosters? All I have are those classic teams from 1986-1998.

[Kblaze8855]

Go to the main menu then features. Then 2Kshare. They do have some pretty good ones. Some are way off though and just seem to have random players on random teams. They are fun to use though.

[Soundwave]

I think it's also worth noting that Michael Jordan signed a three year extension with 2K, meaning he'll be in the game for the foreseeable future. I know many of us were wondering if his video game appearance would just be a one time deal.

NBA 2K11 is the best selling basketball sim ever I believe. It's still in the top 10 selling video games for last month which is insane, and that's largely because of Jordan so 2K Sports re-upping him was a no-brainer.

[Babalu]

magic cover for me but only if they:

add more to my player mode!

screw all the other modes/old teams/all star teams/regular stuff.

just give me more my player stuff. Thats pretty much the only thing I play. It was pretty good but I want more options in my player.

[Kblaze8855]

I'll be happy if they find a way to ban anyone who uses a hacked player in crew games. Ban for a week the first time. Month the second. Till 2k13 the third time.

[Rake2204]

Where do you find those rosters? All I have are those classic teams from 1986-1998.
If you're on 360, I'd suggest taking a look at this link:

http://www.operationsports.com/forums/nba-2k-rosters/467655-hardwood-classic-rosters-compiled-list.html

The first post shows all the "solid" rosters available on 2KShare for entire seasons. This is helpful because as KBlaze said, without some direction, it's easy to stumble upon very poorly made seasons. All the seasons in that link are pretty good.

I recommend anything by gamertag: "portlandblazer" ('86, '87, '90, '96, '97, '98, '00). He seems to do the best work in terms of details (accessories, lineups, created players, etc.). If you download one of the rosters, also be sure to check the entire league when searching for a team. For instance, the 1990 Knicks in the 1990 roster probably won't be under the normal Knicks slot. Instead, they'll probably be associated with the '95 Knicks slot (so their old court is used).

The 1987 roster was edited so every player has short shorts. They are currently working on edits to add short shorts to other rosters as well. You'll even notice that there are exported created teams with created jerseys to match old NBA teams not included (ex: the old '00 Hawks look pretty solid).

Also, I was off base. Past 1998, I see rosters for '00, '01, '04, '07, and '10. So all the years aren't covered, but a significant portion.

[MeLO MvP 15]

I'll be happy if they find a way to ban anyone who uses a hacked player in crew games. Ban for a week the first time. Month the second. Till 2k13 the third time.
Amen. They ruin the damn game. I'm an 87 PG and my friend is a legit 99 SG and we always run together... but half the time we play against these hacked guys (which is annoying considering how long it takes to find a game). Like now it's not just 7'11" PGs, but I'm consistently seeing guys control real NBA players but maxed out to a 99 and made max height and max weight. I've seen 3 7'11" Doc Rivers, 2 7'11" Patrick Ewings, 3-4 7'11" DWades and LeBrons, some giant Obamas and one Metta World Peace (off the top of my head, I've probably seen even more). The worst part is these guys are all the same. They all wait until the last second to put there guys in or don't put them in the starting line up so you don't quit when you see them. They also almost always hop step on every play and you can't even guard them. The funny thing is I've beaten a couple of these guys.

How the hell does 2k not catch this???? like seriously, all you have to do is run a program that checks the names of the players and that eliminates half of them (although, most would just change the names)... also make size limits to each position, specifically PG. Make 6'9" the max.

/rant

[PowerGlove]

I'm burnt out on 2k games but a prime AI in the game would make me come back for more.

[OKCThunderUP]

I'm going to play classic mode and move the Sonics to OKC.

[d.bball.guy]

That looks nice.

So they'll sell those separately? We can pick whatever we like to buy? If so, I'll get the Magic ones if the change the bg color. If not, I'll get the Jordan.

[$LakerGold]

Does anyone have anyting similar to this?
http://www.operationsports.com/forums/nba-2k-rosters/467655-hardwood-classic-rosters-compiled-list.html

I want a Ps3 Version of it.. thnks :)

[Saintsfan1992]

**** a cover.

Them bitches need to fix the game and ban those modders.

I would not give a damn if MJ wasnt in the game no more.

They should focus on only 3 things.

Association.

My player-Main focus.

and Online play

everything else Throw it out the window.

[niko]

I'm burnt out on 2k games but a prime AI in the game would make me come back for more.
i feel for you, i know you live Live and it's gone. I used to love 2K and it died (in football) and left me Madden. Hope it comes back. Competition is good. If it does not come back next year (and it might not) i doubt 2k changes much from year to year, like Madden does now.

[LJJ]

Nice covers.

I figure they'll only release the Jordan cover outside the States, but if not I'll pick up one of the other ones once the game drops in price.

[Kblaze8855]

Amen. They ruin the damn game. I'm an 87 PG and my friend is a legit 99 SG and we always run together... but half the time we play against these hacked guys (which is annoying considering how long it takes to find a game). Like now it's not just 7'11" PGs, but I'm consistently seeing guys control real NBA players but maxed out to a 99 and made max height and max weight. I've seen 3 7'11" Doc Rivers, 2 7'11" Patrick Ewings, 3-4 7'11" DWades and LeBrons, some giant Obamas and one Metta World Peace (off the top of my head, I've probably seen even more). The worst part is these guys are all the same. They all wait until the last second to put there guys in or don't put them in the starting line up so you don't quit when you see them. They also almost always hop step on every play and you can't even guard them. The funny thing is I've beaten a couple of these guys.

How the hell does 2k not catch this???? like seriously, all you have to do is run a program that checks the names of the players and that eliminates half of them (although, most would just change the names)... also make size limits to each position, specifically PG. Make 6'9" the max.

/rant

Me, Gobb, and a few other old ISHers are in a crew and we run those ****. We played a 7'10'' Iggy and a giant 86 Jordan and we won in double OT. I had like 20 points 22 assists. Gobb had probably 45-46 points. Other guy maybe 28/15. I played as my 6'11'' small forward who I bumped up to like 280 with max strength. I made him just to playu point vs giant hacked players. He has bad ratings everywhere but his post game and midrange jumper but we run crazy halfcourt offenses and play mean D. None of us have ever cheated and we go about 50/50 with hack teams these days.

Im using a guy rated in the upper 50s and I dropped like 40 on a guy with a 10 foot tall 99 and it turned out to be a kid who sent me an angry ass message about how I was cheating and "Getting all the angles! You get ALLLLLL THE ANGLES!". I laughed my ass off.

[Rake2204]

That looks nice.

So they'll sell those separately? We can pick whatever we like to buy? If so, I'll get the Magic ones if the change the bg color. If not, I'll get the Jordan.
I think what I've heard is the initial shipment of the game will be equal parts Larry, Magic and MJ. I think all shipments thereafter will be MJ alone (I think). I also may have read all copies sold outside the USA will be MJ covers.

[Knickerlem]

I'm getting Birds cover, but the only thing i REALLY want them to change is the ability to choose between 29, 50 or 82 games for My Player mode. 82 games for 1 season is just insane and very time consuming.

[$LakerGold]

I'm getting Birds cover, but the only thing i REALLY want them to change is the ability to choose between 29, 50 or 82 games for My Player mode. 82 games for 1 season is just insane and very time consuming.

It gets really boring..

[Irish]

Noooooooooooo, I have minor OCD, looks like I'll be buying three copies of the one game this year :(

Just as long as I can restrict myself to one console.....

[Rake2204]

I'm getting Birds cover, but the only thing i REALLY want them to change is the ability to choose between 29, 50 or 82 games for My Player mode. 82 games for 1 season is just insane and very time consuming.
Oh man, yes. Or at least a proper simulate feature. I grew tired of entering a game then selecting "simulate to end" then "yes" then "yes" in order to skip games.

[Fiasco]

Going to take a lot more than a rehashed cover theme and athlete to make me purchase 2K12.

I could give a **** about pre-order bonuses, there are so many terrible bugs (online and offline) from 2K11 that break the game which they NEVER addressed that makes me feel like this is just another money grab.

When you only release one ****ing patch, that tells me as much as I need to know about how much they actually care about making a great game.

[Rake2204]

Going to take a lot more than a rehashed cover theme and athlete to make me purchase 2K12.

I could give a **** about pre-order bonuses, there are so many terrible bugs (online and offline) from 2K11 that break the game which they NEVER addressed that makes me feel like this is just another money grab.

When you only release one ****ing patch, that tells me as much as I need to know about how much they actually care about making a great game.
Is that a mostly online-based complaint?

I was a strictly offline guy and while I acknowledge the game wasn't perfect, I still have to say it's about as much fun as I've ever had with a basketball video game. I was more than satisfied.

[Warriors fan]

Going to take a lot more than a rehashed cover theme and athlete to make me purchase 2K12.

I could give a **** about pre-order bonuses, there are so many terrible bugs (online and offline) from 2K11 that break the game which they NEVER addressed that makes me feel like this is just another money grab.

When you only release one ****ing patch, that tells me as much as I need to know about how much they actually care about making a great game.
this will answer all your ?s http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jKPHihGdO2g&feature=related

[Kblaze8855]

Going to take a lot more than a rehashed cover theme and athlete to make me purchase 2K12.

I could give a **** about pre-order bonuses, there are so many terrible bugs (online and offline) from 2K11 that break the game

No there arent.

The only issues that come up are server based or some guy having a saved game corrupted somehow. Anything else isnt widespread. Gameplay wise I never see a bug that isnt because some *** hacked his player and has a 10 foot guy doing something the animation is designed to apply to a 6 footer.

The issues with gameplay are only noticable because its so close to real basketball the flaws can be seen because you get to comparing it to reality when it isnt. It has little animation hiccups like your hand going through the ball but nto getting a block. Collision detection things that have never been right in sports games.

But it was easily...by a wide wide wide margin the closest a basketbal lgame ever came to perfect.

You have guys on the break pulling out eurosteps, pick and pops, a stick that controls how you come off a screen, drop step floaters, and so on at a level never approached.

It wasnt called the best sports game in a generation for nothing.

If it were not so close to perfect the imperfections wouldnt show. Its so close to real basketball that we look at it as something it isnt. It isnt real. Its just as close as you can get. Most of the exploits are humans being ***** not the game being poorly made.

[ace23]

No there arent.

The only issues that come up are server based or some guy having a saved game corrupted somehow. Anything else isnt widespread. Gameplay wise I never see a bug that isnt because some *** hacked his player and has a 10 foot guy doing something the animation is designed to apply to a 6 footer.

The issues with gameplay are only noticable because its so close to real basketball the flaws can be seen because you get to comparing it to reality when it isnt. It has little animation hiccups like your hand going through the ball but nto getting a block. Collision detection things that have never been right in sports games.

But it was easily...by a wide wide wide margin the closest a basketbal lgame ever came to perfect.

You have guys on the break pulling out eurosteps, pick and pops, a stick that controls how you come off a screen, drop step floaters, and so on at a level never approached.

It wasnt called the best sports game in a generation for nothing.

If it were not so close to perfect the imperfections wouldnt show. Its so close to real basketball that we look at it as something it isnt. It isnt real. Its just as close as you can get. Most of the exploits are humans being ***** not the game being poorly made.
+1

[Kblaze8855]

I remember a basketball game on the Atari. Thats right...the Atari. Yes...im old.

It was a ****ing stick with a square on it as the goal. Two players. The ball with a square. It had 3 sounds. Dribble, make, and miss.

And now people will complain about the smallest of errors as if the game is unplayable. 2K11 was the most realistic sports game ive ever seen....by a lot.

[Fiasco]

Is that a mostly online-based complaint?

I was a strictly offline guy and while I acknowledge the game wasn't perfect, I still have to say it's about as much fun as I've ever had with a basketball video game. I was more than satisfied.

I've played 75% offline. My online experiences haven't been any better.

Ardently supported the 2K franchise after Live 08 was a total drag. What the entire problem comes down to is the fact that there is zero middle ground in between the difficulties. Rookie, Pro, All-Star, Superstar, and Hall of Fame are really five separate names for two levels of playing: too easy or too hard. It's not as apparent in a quick game (offline or online) because you're in control of your entire team, but My Player was absolutely pathetic this year, despite the fact was supposed to culminate the idea of 2k11 which was "Be like Mike".

Before the patch, this game was doing fine. There were server issues (which isn't news to 2K fans), corrupted My Player files, and some AI tendencies/bugs but otherwise the core game was incredibly solid. Post patch, the entire thing turned into a shit fest and 2K did zero to address the problems, much less acknowledge them.

The problem is when you actually want a challenging basketball game that makes you think on a competitive level, instead of rehashing the Pick & Roll or the Drive & Dish theme people offline and online beat to death. When you want to play a game that actually requires you to know your team's playbook, know your players' tendencies/strengths and your opponents weaknesses to come away with a win... this is where 2K11 falls short. Drastically.

I've been harping on this since the game was released in November. Check the video game forum for the myriad of complaints. I'm not just pulling this out of my ass to be "that guy".


No there arent.

The only issues that come up are server based or some guy having a saved game corrupted somehow. Anything else isnt widespread. Gameplay wise I never see a bug that isnt because some *** hacked his player and has a 10 foot guy doing something the animation is designed to apply to a 6 footer.

What modes have you been playing? Your experiences will definitely vary based on the types of modes you play and the difficulty you play them at. Dramatically.


The issues with gameplay are only noticable because its so close to real basketball the flaws can be seen because you get to comparing it to reality when it isnt. It has little animation hiccups like your hand going through the ball but nto getting a block. Collision detection things that have never been right in sports games.

The issues in this game are astounding. I'm not worried about the aesthetic validity. Nobody is. 2K has some of the best work I've seen, especially when it comes to the NBA franchise.

If you're not comparing it to it's real-life counterpart, what is the point of evaluating it at all? 2K11 is a sports simulating game. That's the standard I hold it at. Do you feel differently?


But it was easily...by a wide wide wide margin the closest a basketbal lgame ever came to perfect.

I respectfully disagree.


You have guys on the break pulling out eurosteps, pick and pops, a stick that controls how you come off a screen, drop step floaters, and so on at a level never approached.

And while the additions were interesting, their efficiency in the game is ridiculous no matter who the player is. Shots that have special animations (primarily the spin dunk and spin layup) will fall at near 60% clip on higher difficulties. There is no parity between Chris Paul adjusting his layup midair, and Jeremy Lin: it will go in more likely than not.

Other beautiful issues with the game I've encountered (non hardware):

- Low post scoring
- Free throw shooting
- Three point shooting
- Ball security of 4's/5's
- Sluggish user controlled players
- Difficulty of stealing
- AI defensive awareness
- AI "gliding defense"
- Big men footwork
- Playcalling
- Inability to throw good pass/throwing incorrect pass in situation
- Pick & roll efficiency
- Shot stick timing
- Mutiple (read: million) My Player issues that are documented in the VG forum
- Dunking
- Being "pulled" into a block
- Jump balls (strictly My Player)

That's just off the top of my head. Of course, if you're casually gaming on simple difficulties then you won't encounter many issues, if any. Exploits haven't ruined my online playing at all. Maybe I'm just lucky.

*If you want me to flesh out a specific point, let me know.


It wasnt called the best sports game in a generation for nothing.

It was titled Best Sports game by sites that are notorious for inflating scores with regards to "big game" franchises. Most user reviews are between 'good' to 'average', which is the true litmus test for any game.


If it were not so close to perfect the imperfections wouldnt show. Its so close to real basketball that we look at it as something it isnt. It isnt real. Its just as close as you can get. Most of the exploits are humans being ***** not the game being poorly made.

I look at it as a game that failed to address the issues it introduced at its launch. I don't expect perfection, I expect what $69 should buy for me: 2K11 isn't it.

As for exploits: see the previous quote.

[Rake2204]

Man, that's a bummer. I definitely feel you on the block "suck-ins" though.

And not saying the dunks are flawless, but what was your particular issue with them?

Out of honest curiosity, which basketball game has done it better in your opinion than NBA 2K11?

[d.bball.guy]

I remember a basketball game on the Atari. Thats right...the Atari. Yes...im old.

It was a ****ing stick with a square on it as the goal. Two players. The ball with a square. It had 3 sounds. Dribble, make, and miss.

And now people will complain about the smallest of errors as if the game is unplayable. 2K11 was the most realistic sports game ive ever seen....by a lot.
http://videogamecritic.net/images/2600/basketball.png

[Kblaze8855]

If you're not comparing it to it's real-life counterpart, what is the point of evaluating it at all? 2K11 is a sports simulating game. That's the standard I hold it at. Do you feel differently?

If you are trying to get basketball out of something that has to compress 50 thousand human actions into 8 buttons and make it simple you are just looking for something to complain about.



And while the additions were interesting, their efficiency in the game is ridiculous no matter who the player is. Shots that have special animations (primarily the spin dunk and spin layup) will fall at near 60% clip on higher difficulties. There is no parity between Chris Paul adjusting his layup midair, and Jeremy Lin: it will go in more likely than not.

Of course there is. Lebron and Wade types will make contact layups at a rate nobody else will.



- Low post scoring
- Free throw shooting
- Three point shooting
- Ball security of 4's/5's
- Sluggish user controlled players
- Difficulty of stealing
- AI defensive awareness
- AI "gliding defense"
- Big men footwork
- Playcalling
- Inability to throw good pass/throwing incorrect pass in situation
- Pick & roll efficiency
- Shot stick timing
- Mutiple (read: million) My Player issues that are documented in the VG forum
- Dunking
- Being "pulled" into a block
- Jump balls (strictly My Player)

That's just off the top of my head. Of course, if you're casually gaming on simple difficulties then you won't encounter many issues, if any. Exploits haven't ruined my online playing at all. Maybe I'm just lucky.

Again....you have 8 buttons to work with and it seems you want the entirety of possible human actions availiable.

Low post scoring? Most people dont even attempt it. Im a beast in the post. The only game ive even seen approach 2k11 far as what you can do in the post is like live 04. Might have been 03. But its rare. Unless you mean it being too easy...in which case id tell you nobody seems to notice other than the hackers on mycrew games.

You have issue with FTs?

Shot stick timing?

You are the kind of guy I think developers have to flat out ignore just to do their jobs. The level of detail ad depth.....just thinking of the effort that had to be put in to make that game? And you will write out a list of things that can be summed up by saying "Its not actually playing basketball".

I read a developer of some Madden game years ago talking about that. The closer you get to real the more the flaws stand out to people looking for things to complain about. make a joke of a game like Blitz people have nothing to say. Work your ass off to make it the greatest thing ever seen and people will ask why a guys hair doesnt move when he falls down.

If you are gonna bitch about jump balls you just dont want to be happy. Someone complaining about an issue like that will be playing in 2054 on a Super High Definition 6D Tv that actually transports you into an alternate dimension where you have the skills of Lebron and complain that Lebron could jump a little higher than they are letting you and the game is broken as a result.




It was titled Best Sports game by sites that are notorious for inflating scores with regards to "big game" franchises. Most user reviews are between 'good' to 'average', which is the true litmus test for any game.

We must know very different users...

Perhaps the people I know play video games looking to enjoy themselves?




I look at it as a game that failed to address the issues it introduced at its launch. I don't expect perfection, I expect what $69 should buy for me: 2K11 isn't it.

As for exploits: see the previous quote.

We were paying 50 dollars for Live 95 to have players on ice skates....

In 2002 my stepfather saw someone playing 2k on the dreamcast and thought it was real basketball.

Now near 2012 we have a game with 500 shots, custom dribbling styles, on the ball defense at a level you can draw a charge playing one on one, out of bounds lobs to the goal for a dunk with time running out, reverse pivot fadeaways in the post, created players with 80 custom details down to how they shoot a contact leaner going left or how they react to a hesitation dribble and 10 different Michael Jordans with season specific skillsets....

And people who cant be pleased are pissed off about one of the 400 custom Ft animations or something petty like that.

If you arent happy now you never will be. Gameplay wise there is little if anything left to really improve. Just tweak here and there to reduce things being exploited. Which again...is an issue of players being unfair. Not the game being wrong to include the animation.

[Marv_Albert]

i'm only feeling Jordan's.. should've changed the background colors for Magic and Bird's

This.

[PowerGlove]

2k11 was garbage after a while.

Derek Fisher blocked amare stoudemire's...fast break dunk.

[NuggetsFan]

We were paying 50 dollars for Live 95 to have players on ice skates....

Not sure what this has to do with anything. You keep on bringing up past games, too much expectations but things evolve. You should expect more from 2k11 than '95. Just because 2k11 is great and miles ahead of past games and potentially the best basketball game of all time doesn't mean that it's perfect nor can't be critiqued while looking ahead to 2k12. That's what things do, advance.

As your for you thinking 2k11 there's not much to do, kinda funny. Hit me up in 2016 and we'll compare 'em. Just like when you gamed in '03 or '99 you'd be blown away by seeing 2k11. As for people being petty wanting more? It's human nature. If something's amazing, you want something better. If everybody was content things would never evolve. If everybody was satisfied with cell phone's 5 years ago we wouldn't have what we have now. Just because something's great doesn't mean you can't nitpick and want more.

Anyways same thing I always ask for in any basketball game is having them keep getting it closer and closer to the real thing. More realistic play. Hate playing a game and consistently hitting 60% of my shots. Deff heading down the right track tho so not many complaints.

[Rake2204]

Not sure what this has to do with anything. You keep on bringing up past games, too much expectations but things evolve. You should expect more from 2k11 than '95. Just because 2k11 is great and miles ahead of past games and potentially the best basketball game of all time doesn't mean that it's perfect nor can't be critiqued while looking ahead to 2k12. That's what things do, advance.

As your for you thinking 2k11 there's not much to do, kinda funny. Hit me up in 2016 and we'll compare 'em. Just like when you gamed in '03 or '99 you'd be blown away by seeing 2k11. As for people being petty wanting more? It's human nature. If something's amazing, you want something better. If everybody was content things would never evolve. If everybody was satisfied with cell phone's 5 years ago we wouldn't have what we have now. Just because something's great doesn't mean you can't nitpick and want more.

Anyways same thing I always ask for in any basketball game is having them keep getting it closer and closer to the real thing. More realistic play. Hate playing a game and consistently hitting 60% of my shots. Deff heading down the right track tho so not many complaints.
I agree that there is a lot that can continue to be done to improve NBA 2K (and any and all basketball video games. . .the ones that still exist anyway). I personally just like to enjoy the ride in the meantime. I acknowledge 2K11's not perfect, but I sure don't take that game for granted either. I appreciate it for what it is and it provides a ton of entertainment.

I kind of feel bad for folks who just can't find enjoyment in anything until it reaches a level of perfection that will never arrive. And I don't mean I feel bad in a jerk way, I mean it's a legitimate bummer (also not saying you're one of those people, just speaking in general).

[PowerGlove]

I agree that there is a lot that can continue to be done to improve NBA 2K (and any and all basketball video games. . .the ones that still exist anyway). I personally just like to enjoy the ride in the meantime. I acknowledge 2K11's not perfect, but I sure don't take that game for granted either. I appreciate it for what it is and it provides a ton of entertainment.

I kind of feel bad for folks who just can't find enjoyment in anything until it reaches a level of perfection that will never arrive. And I don't mean I feel bad in a jerk way, I mean it's a legitimate bummer (also not saying you're one of those people, just speaking in general).
I'm definitely one of those people.

[Kblaze8855]

If a guy is saying he expects much more for a game that costs what it does....doesnt that imply that it costs a lot? Game costs the same they did when it was 10 blobs shooting a smaller blob. If the cost rose with the quality 2k11 would be 12 thousand dollars.

And if you played a 5 minute quarter game and made 45% of your shots the scores would end up 38-33. Im sure a lot goes into decisions like how easy it is to score and how it impacts the realism of the game. That aspect will never be realistic because nobody wants to play 4 12 minute quarters with a group of friends playing in rotation. you might not play for 5 hours. It might end up with both teams shooting 44-50% and scoring 90-105...but it would suck. Its a videogame at heart. For people to enjoy. gotta balance things out.

And really...how is listing how the jump ball works not petty?

Really?

The jump ball in my player games?

Just looking for something to bitch about that doesnt matter.

Calling a game that is closer to basketball than anything ever a broken game because of petty shit like that is just being impossible to please. Its looking for everything but whats right. The developers arent gonna address petty shit like that because they probably read it and do what I do. Scoff.

Cant please everyone. Some people wont let themselves be pleased.

[Fiasco]

Man, that's a bummer. I definitely feel you on the block "suck-ins" though.

And not saying the dunks are flawless, but what was your particular issue with them?

Out of honest curiosity, which basketball game has done it better in your opinion than NBA 2K11?

2K9 was great. After that, 2K10.

Dunks attempted by the opposing AI are broken. Contact dunks and alley-oops dunks are more likely to be done by the AI than the player. The controlled player also has a tendency to try and adjust their shot into a layup in the middle of a dunk animation, even though the closest defender is five feet away.

----


If you are trying to get basketball out of something that has to compress 50 thousand human actions into 8 buttons and make it simple you are just looking for something to complain about.

I'm looking for what I paid for. That's all there really is to it. I don't expect flawless and seamless gameplay... where in the world did you infer that?


Of course there is. Lebron and Wade types will make contact layups at a rate nobody else will.

Again I'll stress the importance of the difficulty, settings, and sliders with which you play at. The game runs with the most realism at the Rookie/Pro levels with "Simulation" settings, but that's not saying much. LeBron and Wade have terrific touch around the rim on all levels of the game, but that wasn't my complaint. It's when a scrub can repeatedly run into a forward and hit consistent "And 1s" despite great defense that the game is ruined.


Again....you have 8 buttons to work with and it seems you want the entirety of possible human actions availiable.

What do I want from the game that seems unrealistic in the slightest?


Low post scoring? Most people dont even attempt it. Im a beast in the post. The only game ive even seen approach 2k11 far as what you can do in the post is like live 04. Might have been 03. But its rare. Unless you mean it being too easy...in which case id tell you nobody seems to notice other than the hackers on mycrew games.

1.) Low post scoring is completely broken in the sense that AI bigs will hit every shot within 10 feet of the rim at higher difficulties. It doesn't matter who is shooting- period. Fadeaways, bank shots, up-and-unders, whatever you want them to do, they will make it 95% of the time (offline) whether or not you play defense well enough. To compound this dilemma is the fact that the user team's AI plays at a low level.. whether its defensively or offensively. Late to contest, never cutting to the basket on fast breaks.. it's a JV league in the open court. If you're down by 10 playing on Superstar or Hall of Fame, you will never come back despite what you do. Taking the ball inside or trying to stretch the floor does not work no matter who you shoot with.

2.) I don't play LP because I'm a guard. There's no issue with what you can do with it, it's what the CPU does with it that's mind boggling.


You have issue with FTs?

1.) Only with Shaquille O'Neal hitting 13/14 FTs. Or Deandre Jordan going 6/7. Again.. these are AI issues, not user controlled ones.


Shot stick timing?

1.) More evident when shooting 3 point shots. A wide open 3 point shooter on your team will brick, as will you, on higher difficulties. CPU does not share this dilemma.



You are the kind of guy I think developers have to flat out ignore just to do their jobs. The level of detail ad depth.....just thinking of the effort that had to be put in to make that game? And you will write out a list of things that can be summed up by saying "Its not actually playing basketball".

2K Developers will ignore me just like Bioware ignored every single criticism they were given about Dragon Age 2, because their games will keep making money regardless of their issues. That's the be-all, end-all of it.


I read a developer of some Madden game years ago talking about that. The closer you get to real the more the flaws stand out to people looking for things to complain about. make a joke of a game like Blitz people have nothing to say. Work your ass off to make it the greatest thing ever seen and people will ask why a guys hair doesnt move when he falls down.

If you are gonna bitch about jump balls you just dont want to be happy. Someone complaining about an issue like that will be playing in 2054 on a Super High Definition 6D Tv that actually transports you into an alternate dimension where you have the skills of Lebron and complain that Lebron could jump a little higher than they are letting you and the game is broken as a result.

1.) A game's successful presentation of authenticity is and will always be an opinion.

2.) Jumpballs is just one of the many problems with My Player. Not the rest of the game. I said as much, and it was off the top of my head. I chose not to bore you with the dire issues of My Player because I know they don't interest you.


We must know very different users...

Perhaps the people I know play video games looking to enjoy themselves?

I like to enjoy games as well. I play with all difficulties. This game is great for casual gaming, house parties, or when you just want to smash Bryant's face in with Howard because he just dropped 50 on your favourite team in real life. But as for a game that can give me that feeling like I'm being challenged on the same level as the AI? It doesn't even scratch the surface.


We were paying 50 dollars for Live 95 to have players on ice skates....

That was nearly 16 years ago. With how far technology has come, are people who spend $50 dollars now being unreasonable to expect better things for their money spent?


In 2002 my stepfather saw someone playing 2k on the dreamcast and thought it was real basketball.

My father saw my NHL 11 game on an HD TV and thought he was watching a real game. But NHL 11 is still the same product NHL 09 was, with even more bugs. Point here?


Now near 2012 we have a game with 500 shots, custom dribbling styles, on the ball defense at a level you can draw a charge playing one on one, out of bounds lobs to the goal for a dunk with time running out, reverse pivot fadeaways in the post, created players with 80 custom details down to how they shoot a contact leaner going left or how they react to a hesitation dribble and 10 different Michael Jordans with season specific skillsets....

And people who cant be pleased are pissed off about one of the 400 custom Ft animations or something petty like that.

This is a straw-man argument. Where did I complain about any of what you listed? Unless you're not referring to me, in which case I'd tell you people who hate the FT animations are nuts.


If you arent happy now you never will be. Gameplay wise there is little if anything left to really improve. Just tweak here and there to reduce things being exploited. Which again...is an issue of players being unfair. Not the game being wrong to include the animation.

I was elated with 2K9. 2K10 was good. I'm not upset with 2K11 because I'm an asshole. And the issue is with the AI being fair- I've reiterated this point many times.

[Kblaze8855]

Elated with 2k9?

I play on HOF and like the second time I played it I dropped like 58 with Ben Gordon then went on to murder everyone I played with him. Lebron could go coast to coast on any difficulty by just holding the stick in the direction he wanted to go. The 2 times I used the cavs back then(I never use the games elite players...I find it bitchly) I probably missed 5 total shots with Lebron with him dropping 60 each game. 2K9 and 10 you literally could shoot 90% on jump hooks no matter who took it. I remember it clearly because I didnt even buy a 360 till just before 2k10 came out so 2k9 was my only game for a while. I used to drop 40 and up off jump hooks with Rip Hamilton just to piss my friends off.

There is no such thing as a realistic basketball game. The closest anyone has ever come is 2k11. 2k9 didnt have nearly as many animation basic to playing basketball and if a shooter made 3 shots in a row he might not miss again.

If you look at the things you are capable of in 2k11 that simply were not possible in 2k9 I dont know how it isnt great progress. just on the basketball side.

We are really running out of things to ask of these people. 2k2 was probably 90% of what an animated person could be expected to do in a basketball simulation. We are going up percentage points and now pieces of points. We wont ever get to 100 but we will always have someone looking to stress Josh smiths release being a little off more than the fact that if you have to go that far to find an error you are probably just being a difficult and should go play basketball instead of something trying to simulate it with buttons.

[Kblaze8855]

I'm looking for what I paid for. That's all there really is to it. I don't expect flawless and seamless gameplay... where in the world did you infer that?

If you pay 55 dollars for NBA showtime 98 and get garbage....and 59 for a leap so massive it defies description in 2k11....isnt the quality greatly outpacing the cost?

Never got the "I paid ____! And I want my moneys worth!" thing in these situations.

I paid 60 dollars for sonic on the sega CD and 49 dollars for GTA 4.

Games arent really more expensive. for the quality...they are WAY less expensive. They arent nearly keeping up with inflation.

For the quality 2k11 was cheap as hell. You want what you paid for? You(perhaps your parents) paid the same thing for Live 99!

You are getting a massive deal paying the same thing for what we have now.

Im reminded of a guy I saw on the 2kforums mad he was banned for hacking. "I paid 60 dollars. I didnt pay it to get banned because I wanna win! I expect a full refund!". Different situation but both make me laugh.

You pay the same thing for 10-15 years...get the best(or very near the best) thing ever created. But complain about its cost when its 40 light years beyond shit that cost the same in a time people made less money?

Perhaps I just now got old enough to see the big picture on that....

[Fiasco]

Elated with 2k9?

I play on HOF and like the second time I played it I dropped like 58 with Ben Gordon then went on to murder everyone I played with him.

I'm not saying it's a better game. I'm saying 2K9 was great for the time it was released. Gaming has evolved so far in 3 years, and I have different expectations now than I did back then. Ben Gordon and almost any decent wing player could catch fire if you knew how to play with them. I torched my friend who was using the Celtics with a rookie Eric Gordon.... first time I'd ever played the game, and I went 8/9 from deep, had 45 points total and he was choked.


Lebron could go coast to coast on any difficulty by just holding the stick in the direction he wanted to go. The 2 times I used the cavs back then(I never use the games elite players...I find it bitchly) I probably missed 5 total shots with Lebron with him dropping 60 each game.

That was LeBron in a nutshell that year, though. Obviously it was overboard but he was that good. And man I feel you on the elite player teams.. I've only ever used the Clippers and the only time we've had a decent team was 2K5 or some shit, with Cassell and Brand.


2K9 and 10 you literally could shoot 90% on jump hooks no matter who took it. I remember it clearly because I didnt even buy a 360 till just before 2k10 came out so 2k9 was my only game for a while. I used to drop 40 and up off jump hooks with Rip Hamilton just to piss my friends off.

I don't ever remember that... but that's pretty damn hilarious.


There is no such thing as a realistic basketball game. The closest anyone has ever come is 2k11. 2k9 didnt have nearly as many animation basic to playing basketball and if a shooter made 3 shots in a row he might not miss again.

Predetermined animations is exactly what ruins the AI at higher difficulties, though. Being "hot" or "cold" in 2K11 means nothing when you're shooting on Pro. On higher levels, however, shooters have zero consistency. It's always a crap shoot whether or not you'll hit your shot, even if you have perfect release and are uncontested.


If you look at the things you are capable of in 2k11 that simply were not possible in 2k9 I dont know how it isnt great progress. just on the basketball side.

But I'm not upset at all with this! The progress is great. I'm glad you can do most of these things, but my #1 complaint has been the maladjusted AI on higher difficulties.


We are really running out of things to ask of these people. 2k2 was probably 90% of what an animated person could be expected to do in a basketball simulation. We are going up percentage points and now pieces of points. We wont ever get to 100 but we will always have someone looking to stress Josh smiths release being a little off more than the fact that if you have to go that far to find an error you are probably just being a difficult and should go play basketball instead of something trying to simulate it with buttons.

I really think you're arguing against a point I'm not making.

[Kblaze8855]

Im gonna stick with this because I think its the basis of the problem we have here:


Predetermined animations is exactly what ruins the AI at higher difficulties, though. Being "hot" or "cold" in 2K11 means nothing when you're shooting on Pro. On higher levels, however, shooters have zero consistency. It's always a crap shoot whether or not you'll hit your shot, even if you have perfect release and are uncontested.

Its a crap shoot in real life....

Ray Allen has missed HUNDREDS(if not thousands) of wide ass open 3s he got off clean with his normal perfect release. But everytime he does it on 2k...."Oh thats some bullshit!". I know its like that around here. I play with a lot of people. we complain like everyone else. Human nature. I see a guy just let someone walk into the lane im asking "What the ****? He didnt even try?" complaining about the game. And yet every game in real life I watch Carlos Boozer do the same thing. If Lebron makes 8-9 jumpers in a row people say the game is broken.....ignoring that sometimes...he just does that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyd4NPvzKQg


Kobe goes off on the game"You superstarred me....real video game shit". As if Kobe never outscored the other team?

I bet if we had vide ogames in the 60s a guy would be saying "No way does wilt go 28-30 from the line!" ignoring that he did it last week when he dropped 100.

Crazy mistakes of AI( or...realI) happen.

But let it happen in a video game and the game is "broken".

People will bitch because they are prone to complaining. We all are. But that doesnt mean Ray Allen actually makes all his open jumpers.....


You call the game broken. No game has ever been...right. 2k9 and 10 sure as hell were not. no game I can score 40 off jump hooks with pointguards is...unbroken. No game I can drop 55 with Ben Gordon easily 2 out of 5 games is...unbroken. And it just gets worse going back. so what we are left with is the fact that...

If 2k11 is broken...every basketball game in history was broken. its never been done right. Not even close. Calling a basketball game broken is tantamount to saying...it not actually basketball.

If you look hard(and if you are pointing out jump ball problems you are looking hard) every basketball game was, is, and will be broken...because its a video game.

Its a complaint that will never go away because basketball cant be played with buttons.

[Mirjalovic]

Hei good post Kblaze

that was i thought for years.

I also hate when user controlling all teams in asso. to justify unrealistic trade they've claimed...

for my standpoint, just leave it as is & let the computer doing their magic.

[Fiasco]

Its a crap shoot in real life....

Ray Allen has missed HUNDREDS(if not thousands) of wide ass open 3s he got off clean with his normal perfect release. But everytime he does it on 2k...."Oh thats some bullshit!". I know its like that around here. I play with a lot of people. we complain like everyone else. Human nature. I see a guy just let someone walk into the lane im asking "What the ****? He didnt even try?" complaining about the game. And yet every game in real life I watch Carlos Boozer do the same thing. If Lebron makes 8-9 jumpers in a row people say the game is broken.....ignoring that sometimes...he just does that:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tyd4NPvzKQg

- There is consistency in real life. There is none in this game. At the end of the day, yes, the odds of the ball going in are 50%. But how often does Ray Allen miss that open 3? Barely. He's a knockdown shooter. You expect more from him than you would from Blake Griffin. Leaving Blake Griffin open behind the arc in real life... worth the risk. Leaving Ray Allen open is plain stupid. But that doesn't translate at all in this game. Every shot behind the arc is 30/70, even for players who are known to be threats from deep.

- We all complain, there's no argument there. I do it a ton. I'll be the first to admit I have the foulest mouth when I botch a shot/play. And if it happens because I messed it up.. cool, whatever. But when you have a game that's hard coded to intentionally throw you off, no matter what your shot rating is, then that's an issue. The developers even said during the patch that they "wanted to fix three point shooting".... when the issue never even existed.

- There were definitely points about his inconsistent jumper earlier this year (James'). Before the first roster update, Wade & LeBron could not be guarded at all because there was not a shot they couldn't hit, defense present or not. But as the year progressed and ratings/tendencies started to line up, I think LeBron going 8/9 isn't as much of a surprise to people as it was earlier thanks to his recent playoff run.

- I had to laugh at your Boozer comment because it's sadly true. But try playing a game where all your teammates channel Boozer's legendary defense and you'll catch my drift (Superstar/Simulation is perfect for this).


Kobe goes off on the game"You superstarred me....real video game shit". As if Kobe never outscored the other team?

I bet if we had vide ogames in the 60s a guy would be saying "No way does wilt go 28-30 from the line!" ignoring that he did it last week when he dropped 100.

My problem isn't Kobe going off for 60, or Wilt dropping 100. That's tough luck, and it does happen. What doesn't happen is Derek Fisher dropping 30 and 10 or the other team shooting 67% from the field in the first half despite how well I play defensively.


Crazy mistakes of AI( or...realI) happen.

But let it happen in a video game and the game is "broken".

See above.


People will bitch because they are prone to complaining. We all are. But that doesnt mean Ray Allen actually makes all his open jumpers.....

But he makes the majority of them.



You call the game broken. No game has ever been...right. 2k9 and 10 sure as hell were not. no game I can score 40 off jump hooks with pointguards is...unbroken. No game I can drop 55 with Ben Gordon easily 2 out of 5 games is...unbroken. And it just gets worse going back. so what we are left with is the fact that...

If 2k11 is broken...every basketball game in history was broken. its never been done right. Not even close. Calling a basketball game broken is tantamount to saying...it not actually basketball.

Each game has had it's issues. I've never seen a PG drop 40 off of jumphooks (you'll have to make a video for me, I'd actually love to see it). But we're not talking about 2K9, or 2K10. Looking back now, problems are easy to identify because of what gaming technology is capable of. I harp a lot on 2K11, but it is a decent game. The problem is that it is capable of being a much better game than it currently is, and the technology to fix its issues is available now, not 4 years into the future.


If you look hard(and if you are pointing out jump ball problems you are looking hard) every basketball game was, is, and will be broken...because its a video game.

I noticed the jump ball issue because Dwight Howard was getting beat at every jump ball on Superstar/Simulation difficulty. I didn't go out of my way to scrutinize the sheer ridiculousness of it.


Its a complaint that will never go away because basketball cant be played with buttons.

Not sure I can say anything other than 2K doesn't agree with you.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

I play 2k11 all the time and... strangely I've never experienced any of these problems. What I did notice though is the same people tend to always have the same problems, which I think might be because those people are doing things that they aren't aware of and its affecting the game, and they think its the game doing it.

[Rake2204]

I'm thinking it's just going to be a situation of a couple of folks with forever dissenting opinions here. I happen to be on KBlaze's side of things but I definitely see Fiasco's side regarding a couple of issues (though not all issues).

I still think it's just going to be an outlook thing. I look at NBA 2K11 and see all the crazy adjustments, additions, graphical upgrades, etc. and I say "My god, this the best basketball game I've ever played. There's no way I'd even be able to go back to NBA 2K10 now because this so far surpasses it." I acknowledge the imperfections (the silly physics-altering blocked shots at the rim, the ball "disappearing" into the stands when it's blocked out of play) and I know it's important to make note of those things and suggest improvements, but I just don't know if there's any way I can be upset with 2K video game producers with the progress being made year-to-year.

As a lifelong basketball video gamer (beginning with Magic Johnson's Fast Break), I have a hard time seeing 2K11 as something that could possibly be some kind of horrible production. Of course it's not perfect, but I just could never justify any sort of "if 2K doesn't get their stuff together, they're not getting my money next year" stance. I love basketball videogaming, and I don't think anyone else has ever done it better at this point. There's no way I could pass this up.

[Toizumi]

I'm thinking it's just going to be a situation of a couple of folks with forever dissenting opinions here. I happen to be on KBlaze's side of things but I definitely see Fiasco's side regarding a couple of issues (though not all issues).

I still think it's just going to be an outlook thing. I look at NBA 2K11 and see all the crazy adjustments, additions, graphical upgrades, etc. and I say "My god, this the best basketball game I've ever played. There's no way I'd even be able to go back to NBA 2K10 now because this so far surpasses it." I acknowledge the imperfections (the silly physics-altering blocked shots at the rim, the ball "disappearing" into the stands when it's blocked out of play) and I know it's important to make note of those things and suggest improvements, but I just don't know if there's any way I can be upset with 2K video game producers with the progress being made year-to-year.

As a lifelong basketball video gamer (beginning with Magic Johnson's Fast Break), I have a hard time seeing 2K11 as something that could possibly be some kind of horrible production. Of course it's not perfect, but I just could never justify any sort of "if 2K doesn't get their stuff together, they're not getting my money next year" stance. I love basketball videogaming, and I don't think anyone else has ever done it better at this point. There's no way I could pass this up.

:cheers:

Imma get the Bird cover :rockon:

Fiasco, Kblaze.

2k is the best game out there (only videogame I still play) and I don't wanna sound like a b*tch complaining about a game.. but I kinda feel what Fiasco is saying somewhat.

Multiplayer (offline) is great fun, but I like to play association/franchise vs CPU, been doing that for more than 10 years in videogames now (no life, lol).
two major issues with 2k11 (for me) were:
1. No good balance between roleplayers/scrubs/stars for CPU/player
2. Shot stick timing

1.
I can't stand the fact that, even with (what's supposed to be) realistic sliders and good defense on my behalf (if I may say so), I had Jermaine O'Neal killing me with midrange fadeaways of post-ups. He torched me for 30 and 16 a few days ago (on a fantasy team). Ridiculous shots all around, just unstoppable :lol I won though.

These things happen to often IMO when you play on superstar/HOF.
More so than with previous 2k games or even Live games (waayy back though). Role players go for 30 too often. Also, I like the fact that they have tendencies for players, but some guys shoot too much now. Kevin Durant for instance shoots like 30/40 shots a game every time you play him, which scks somehwat.. but ok I can live with it. However, when JO does it :facepalm

The other way around though, this doesnt work. User controlled roleplayers have great games sometimes, but most are just worthless when playing on higher levels, forcing you to rely on your starters too much. That might just be me though.


2.
Shot stick timing is somewhat of an issue sometimes. There have been complaints on different forums/websites that some players have shots that are to difficult to master.
Nowitzki for instance has a difficult release. If you don't feel it for a game, you'll miss a lot (a lot) of open jumpers. Some people boss with him though. I think they'll fix that a bit though (they read 2k forums/complaints too I presume).


Also, I feel that a player like Larry Bird loses his value because his intangibles, court vision, handling, shooting are nullified by his weaknesses - he's slow, bad elevation, shot that is tough to master. He was a monster on 2k5 (bit oldschool, but let me make my point..). He was not the fastest in those games, but he could finish from everywhere, strong around the hoop, didn't dribble into defenders as much to come to an awkward halt.. Easier to use than now.
Bird can catch fire and be great to play with, but he's not as easy to use as JR Smith, or players like him.. Guys that are fast, can finish up close and can bomb from long range (Shannon Brown, JR Smith, Jason Richardson), are too good in these games (Both on CPU, or when you play with them) They need to balance that out a bit.. somehow. I felt like they had that right in older versions but kinda let it slip at some point.


Overall, games have gotten more realistic and Kblaze had a point..The above issues mightve been there in the old days, but just didnt stand out because games were less realistic.
Still, NBA Live 2000 and NBA 2K3 produced the best, most realistic box scores of any games I've played. I can be somewhat of a statgeek sometimes, so I liked that :D

Still, 2k11 was better than 2k10/2k9 and I cant wait for 2k12 :bowdown:

[Bone Machine]

They need to bring back the all decade team just so I can use players like Shaq, Tmac, AI, and Kobe in their primes again.

Edit: oh, and definitely do something about myplayer mode. On rookie the other team shoots 32% FG. On all star or w/e the next level up is, my team also shoots 32% FG. Why are NBA teams struggling to break 35% FG? My rebounding stats are inflated like crazy.
That's why they need to let us use sliders in My Player. My Player feels so different from the other modes, and many of it's problems can be fixed with the right sliders.

[Dasher]

I used to drop 60 regularly with Samuel Dalembert on 2K9 on HOF difficulty.

A lot of people's passing gripes comes from them throwing horrible passes.

[creepingdeath]

Those are all fake. This is the real one:

http://s3.amazonaws.com/imgly_production/1545014/large.jpg

[Maniak]

I used to drop 60 regularly with Samuel Dalembert on 2K9 on HOF difficulty.

A lot of people's passing gripes comes from them throwing horrible passes.
I agree. If you don't use the pass feature where you pick using one of the buttons(Y, X, B, or A on the xbox), you're going to turn the ball over like its your job. The regular passing feature is horrid. It never goes to the right guy.

I find lots of people don't fake a pass before doing a pass either, I know I dont :oldlol: Thats something that has to be done in basketball a lot, especially if you're playing a more on-edge defender.

People that complain about the same things are either stuck up on them, or making the same mistakes.

Or its something like My Player that just isn't DONE yet. Or its something like realism that isn't quite there yet.

There are some flaws in 2k11. I can't play My Player. You cannot justify someone starting out as a 45 and making it onto an NBA team. I'd rather start at atleast 55 with less skill points.

Association trading is horrible. Its getting better. But if you do the thing where you put players on the block and get offers from all the teams, 28 of the 30 are trying to rip you off or get the better end of it. Not to mention, the CPU constantly denies trades. Some players say they're "going to test the free agency market" when their team is 10-0 on the season so far.

I mean these are things that will be fixed, and things that won't stop me from buying 2k12, 2k13, 2k14, 2k15, 2k16, so on and so forth. Well, unless some new basketball giant comes along and surpasses them. Which could happen.

[ace23]

- There is consistency in real life. There is none in this game. At the end of the day, yes, the odds of the ball going in are 50%. But how often does Ray Allen miss that open 3? Barely. He's a knockdown shooter. You expect more from him than you would from Blake Griffin. Leaving Blake Griffin open behind the arc in real life... worth the risk. Leaving Ray Allen open is plain stupid. But that doesn't translate at all in this game. Every shot behind the arc is 30/70, even for players who are known to be threats from deep.

- We all complain, there's no argument there. I do it a ton. I'll be the first to admit I have the foulest mouth when I botch a shot/play. And if it happens because I messed it up.. cool, whatever. But when you have a game that's hard coded to intentionally throw you off, no matter what your shot rating is, then that's an issue. The developers even said during the patch that they "wanted to fix three point shooting".... when the issue never even existed.

- There were definitely points about his inconsistent jumper earlier this year (James'). Before the first roster update, Wade & LeBron could not be guarded at all because there was not a shot they couldn't hit, defense present or not. But as the year progressed and ratings/tendencies started to line up, I think LeBron going 8/9 isn't as much of a surprise to people as it was earlier thanks to his recent playoff run.

- I had to laugh at your Boozer comment because it's sadly true. But try playing a game where all your teammates channel Boozer's legendary defense and you'll catch my drift (Superstar/Simulation is perfect for this).



My problem isn't Kobe going off for 60, or Wilt dropping 100. That's tough luck, and it does happen. What doesn't happen is Derek Fisher dropping 30 and 10 or the other team shooting 67% from the field in the first half despite how well I play defensively.



See above.



But he makes the majority of them.




Each game has had it's issues. I've never seen a PG drop 40 off of jumphooks (you'll have to make a video for me, I'd actually love to see it). But we're not talking about 2K9, or 2K10. Looking back now, problems are easy to identify because of what gaming technology is capable of. I harp a lot on 2K11, but it is a decent game. The problem is that it is capable of being a much better game than it currently is, and the technology to fix its issues is available now, not 4 years into the future.



I noticed the jump ball issue because Dwight Howard was getting beat at every jump ball on Superstar/Simulation difficulty. I didn't go out of my way to scrutinize the sheer ridiculousness of it.



Not sure I can say anything other than 2K doesn't agree with you.
You need a good set of sliders.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Nice job Psing it.

But Magic and Bird's should've used a different background color.

[Kblaze8855]

Shot stick timing is somewhat of an issue sometimes. There have been complaints on different forums/websites that some players have shots that are to difficult to master.
Nowitzki for instance has a difficult release. If you don't feel it for a game, you'll miss a lot (a lot) of open jumpers. Some people boss with him though. I think they'll fix that a bit though (they read 2k forums/complaints too I presume).

Dirks shot has never really been right in a game. I remember in 2k7 or so he would seem to go back into the floor when you held the shot too long. Like he would go up...then back to the floor...and bounce into the air and then release it.

But im one of those who can dominate with him. I just cant make open 3s. But ive had 50+ with him more than once once I learned to just play how he does. dont even try to get open. just opst up at the elbow back down till you have a foot in the lane and shoot a fadeaway. Its so reliable from the right side im not even allowed to use the Mavs in games with friends. Dont get too close or shoot from 3 and Dirk is a monster. He will miss post shots all day and wont make open 3s. But from the top of the key to a step inside the line his fadeaway cant miss. I shoot his fadeaway when open because the timing is easier. Best stepback jumper in the game.



Also, I feel that a player like Larry Bird loses his value because his intangibles, court vision, handling, shooting are nullified by his weaknesses - he's slow, bad elevation, shot that is tough to master. He was a monster on 2k5 (bit oldschool, but let me make my point..). He was not the fastest in those games, but he could finish from everywhere, strong around the hoop, didn't dribble into defenders as much to come to an awkward halt.. Easier to use than now.
Bird can catch fire and be great to play with, but he's not as easy to use as JR Smith, or players like him.. Guys that are fast, can finish up close and can bomb from long range (Shannon Brown, JR Smith, Jason Richardson), are too good in these games (Both on CPU, or when you play with them) They need to balance that out a bit.. somehow. I felt like they had that right in older versions but kinda let it slip at some point.

Week or so ago I had the 86 Celtics and my friend had the Heat. Bosh pretty much murdered Bird in the first moments of the game with no foul called. I said Bird would score the rest of the points. I think he finished with about 64. And we play HOF. I just didnt shoot any outside shots till eh was hiot. Fadeaways, post game, and transition pullups. The only other person who scored was Dennis Johnson because I hit his point with a crossover and he fell in a heap. I was required by man law to shoot the 3 over the corpse right?

[All Net]

Larry cover looks terrible

[Rake2204]

Dirks shot has never really been right in a game. I remember in 2k7 or so he would seem to go back into the floor when you held the shot too long. Like he would go up...then back to the floor...and bounce into the air and then release it.

But im one of those who can dominate with him. I just cant make open 3s. But ive had 50+ with him more than once once I learned to just play how he does. dont even try to get open. just opst up at the elbow back down till you have a foot in the lane and shoot a fadeaway. Its so reliable from the right side im not even allowed to use the Mavs in games with friends. Dont get too close or shoot from 3 and Dirk is a monster. He will miss post shots all day and wont make open 3s. But from the top of the key to a step inside the line his fadeaway cant miss. I shoot his fadeaway when open because the timing is easier. Best stepback jumper in the game.




Week or so ago I had the 86 Celtics and my friend had the Heat. Bosh pretty much murdered Bird in the first moments of the game with no foul called. I said Bird would score the rest of the points. I think he finished with about 64. And we play HOF. I just didnt shoot any outside shots till eh was hiot. Fadeaways, post game, and transition pullups. The only other person who scored was Dennis Johnson because I hit his point with a crossover and he fell in a heap. I was required by man law to shoot the 3 over the corpse right?
Yeah Larry is a triple double waiting to happen for me in 2K11. It definitely helps to play toward specific strengths (like high post in Dirk's case) as opposed to just general strengths like "shooting".

[ace23]

Dirks shot has never really been right in a game. I remember in 2k7 or so he would seem to go back into the floor when you held the shot too long. Like he would go up...then back to the floor...and bounce into the air and then release it.

But im one of those who can dominate with him. I just cant make open 3s. But ive had 50+ with him more than once once I learned to just play how he does. dont even try to get open. just opst up at the elbow back down till you have a foot in the lane and shoot a fadeaway. Its so reliable from the right side im not even allowed to use the Mavs in games with friends. Dont get too close or shoot from 3 and Dirk is a monster. He will miss post shots all day and wont make open 3s. But from the top of the key to a step inside the line his fadeaway cant miss. I shoot his fadeaway when open because the timing is easier. Best stepback jumper in the game.




Week or so ago I had the 86 Celtics and my friend had the Heat. Bosh pretty much murdered Bird in the first moments of the game with no foul called. I said Bird would score the rest of the points. I think he finished with about 64. And we play HOF. I just didnt shoot any outside shots till eh was hiot. Fadeaways, post game, and transition pullups. The only other person who scored was Dennis Johnson because I hit his point with a crossover and he fell in a heap. I was required by man law to shoot the 3 over the corpse right?
Haha, I remember those days.

[Samurai Swoosh]

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/284876_10150726117885305_221292025304_19537679_292 4713_n.jpg
:pimp: -ness

That's better than LAST year's MJ cover by a country mile.

Hard to imagine MJ has gotten 2x sports game covers and he's been retired for almost 10 years, and LeBron hasn't got one yet.

[Kblaze8855]

Yeah Larry is a triple double waiting to happen for me in 2K11. It definitely helps to play toward specific strengths (like high post in Dirk's case) as opposed to just general strengths like "shooting".

Yea. People will use Ray Allen and take 3s off the dribble as if thats his usual shot these days. Run a quick screen and get a good release he makes the shot like 80% of the time. Dirk doesnt shoot many 3s now. But people keep shooting contested 3s with him. Post up from the elbow. Hes unstoppable. People try to make players fit their style. You gotta use the players as they were designed.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Yea. People will use Ray Allen and take 3s off the dribble as if thats his usual shot these days. Run a quick screen and get a good release he makes the shot like 80% of the time. Dirk doesnt shoot many 3s now. But people keep shooting contested 3s with him. Post up from the elbow. Hes unstoppable. People try to make players fit their style. You gotta use the players as they were designed.

Yeah Dirk's release has been off the past few games. They gave him the same release as KG and neither of theirs are correct. They need to fix Kobe's, Steph Curry's Durant's, Ray Allen's, Brandon Roy's, Wesley Matthews', and Deng's. Those are just a few I can think of.

But you are right about how people play. I love having a realistic game. I hate the way people play online, just turbo-ing up the floor and trying to dunk with LeBron or Wade or Rose.

When I play with Kobe, I post up ALOT, shoot jumpers and just like he does in real life, whenever he gets a defensive rebound I bring the ball up with him and shoot. I try to keep things as real as possible.

[brownmamba00]

Larry's and Magic's cover is horrible imo.

[clayton]

They need to keep retro players out of my games, and especially cover arts.

[PowerGlove]

Yeah Dirk's release has been off the past few games. They gave him the same release as KG and neither of theirs are correct. They need to fix Kobe's, Steph Curry's Durant's, Ray Allen's, Brandon Roy's, Wesley Matthews', and Deng's. Those are just a few I can think of.

But you are right about how people play. I love having a realistic game. I hate the way people play online, just turbo-ing up the floor and trying to dunk with LeBron or Wade or Rose.

When I play with Kobe, I post up ALOT, shoot jumpers and just like he does in real life, whenever he gets a defensive rebound I bring the ball up with him and shoot. I try to keep things as real as possible.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I have a friend who's a real big NBA fan, from the Chi, only uses the Bulls in this game. Dude rapes the pro hop with D-Rose. I have another friend, who's from Atlanta born and raised(rare lol) and he is a Wade stan. Dude euro steps and step back with Wade all the time. They abuse the moves in the game. I still win most of the time, but its annoying how they wont play the game like its supposed to be played. I dont mind people pushing the tempo and trying to break the rim everytime down with Wade and Bron, that's not that unrealistic at all, you can always push and then bring back and slow it down. I hate when they disregard the fact that its like a two on four and I'm packing the paint and somehow they find fault with the game and start to complain.:rolleyes:

If 2k12 has better defense I'll be on board. It's just incredibly hard to be a great defensive player in 2k games. Now I'm NOT saying that I am not one, because I was in the top 50 in points allowed per game on PS3, but I had to use every trick possible to stop people.I just find it way harder than offense if that makes any sense.

[ace23]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I have a friend who's a real big NBA fan, from the Chi, only uses the Bulls in this game. Dude rapes the pro hop with D-Rose. I have another friend, who's from Atlanta born and raised(rare lol) and he is a Wade stan. Dude euro steps and step back with Wade all the time.
If 2K would just tune the sliders to be realistic, these clowns would be exposed instantly.

[Gundress]

Jordan got the best cover.

I agree with T/S, they should have changed the background color for Bird and Magic....it would be much better.

[cteach111]

I don't like Bird's cover. They shoulda went with his younger years when he had shaggy hair look. That's being kinda picky i guess, but w/e.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

I have a friend who's a real big NBA fan, from the Chi, only uses the Bulls in this game. Dude rapes the pro hop with D-Rose. I have another friend, who's from Atlanta born and raised(rare lol) and he is a Wade stan. Dude euro steps and step back with Wade all the time. They abuse the moves in the game. I still win most of the time, but its annoying how they wont play the game like its supposed to be played. I dont mind people pushing the tempo and trying to break the rim everytime down with Wade and Bron, that's not that unrealistic at all, you can always push and then bring back and slow it down. I hate when they disregard the fact that its like a two on four and I'm packing the paint and somehow they find fault with the game and start to complain.:rolleyes:

If 2k12 has better defense I'll be on board. It's just incredibly hard to be a great defensive player in 2k games. Now I'm NOT saying that I am not one, because I was in the top 50 in points allowed per game on PS3, but I had to use every trick possible to stop people.I just find it way harder than offense if that makes any sense.

Yeah defense is tricky sometimes because about 95% of the people I've played online play the EXACT same way. Just try to dunk all day with LeBron or Wade. I like to play to my team's strengths and my My Player's strengths.

They need to tone down the effectiveness of turn around jump shots in 2k12. I played against this guy in crew and he literally didn't miss a shot when he did the turn around jumper. He could even shoot out of double teams and still make the shot all of the time. And when the cpu does it, they hardly ever miss either. It doesn't matter who it is. I've even had guys like Kendrick Perkins and Darko Milicic dropping 15+ points on me just from fadeaways alone, no lie. They also shoot out of double teams. I hate when the cpu does that. Shoot out of double teams. Especially in My Player because my teammates almost always miss it when they shoot out of a double team and it's their first instinct to shoot when being doubled for some reason.

[Nevaeh]

I don't like Bird's cover. They shoulda went with his younger years when he had shaggy hair look. That's being kinda picky i guess, but w/e.

I agree. Same with Magic, they should have went with his 80s "Goatee" look as well (his beard combined with his "Magic" nickname just go together). However to be fair, they did use a "Past His Prime" 35 year old MJ, so I guess 2k is staying consistent.

Can't wait till we have the ability to change beards and hairstyles on every player, not just the created ones. (96 MJ even rocked a goatee for a few months If I remember correctly).

Edit: Not to mention the ability to change up Rodman's hair color and art design from game to game as well.
Oh, and "Goatee" Scottie Pippen is the Illest (no homo). Need that option in there too.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

I agree. Same with Magic, they should have went with his 80s "Goatee" look as well (his beard combined with his "Magic" nick-name just go together). However to be fair, they did use a "Past His Prime" 35 year old MJ as well, so I guess 2k is staying consistent.

Can't wait till we have the ability to change beards and hairstyles on every player, not just the created ones. (96 MJ even rocked a goatee for a few months If I remember correctly).

Maaan I would kill to be able to put an afro on Kobe again :oldlol:

[Rake2204]

Maaan I would kill to be able to put an afro on Kobe again :oldlol:
I'm kind of curious about that one. There's reports the '02 Kings will be one of two teams (the other being the '91 Warriors) available to be unlocked by preordering 2K12. If the '02 Kings are available, I'd have to imagine there might be a classic Lakers team in there somewhere too. Unfortunately, Bryant chopped the hair a little bit by '02, didn't he? Regardless, it'd be awfully cool to re-live that Lakers/Kings matchup.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

I'm kind of curious about that one. There's reports the '02 Kings will be one of two teams (the other being the '91 Warriors) available to be unlocked by preordering 2K12. If the '02 Kings are available, I'd have to imagine there might be a classic Lakers team in there somewhere too. Unfortunately, Bryant chopped the hair a little bit by '02, didn't he? Regardless, it'd be awfully cool to re-live that Lakers/Kings matchup.

Yeah he got it cut a little bit after the '02 season started. I'm just tired of him looking like a black alien skinhead in the game :oldlol:

[PleezeBehave]

Nice job Psing it.

But Magic and Bird's should've used a different background color.

http://www.simnet.is/arnarfb/MagicCover.jpg

http://www.simnet.is/arnarfb/BirdCover.jpg

[brownmamba00]

http://www.simnet.is/arnarfb/MagicCover.jpg


:bowdown:

[Nevaeh]

:bowdown:

Agreed. that's beautiful work Pleeze Behave. Dare I say your Art work is better than PleezeBelieve's rhyming abilities.......... I Kid, well kinda :oldlol:

[PleezeBehave]

Thanks, I didn't do much though. Just changed the color because I felt it didn't look right to have red backdrops behind Magic and Bird.

[d.bball.guy]

http://www.simnet.is/arnarfb/MagicCover.jpg

http://www.simnet.is/arnarfb/BirdCover.jpg
Those are dope PleezeBehave.

Wait...:roll: @ your username!

[Nevaeh]

http://www.simnet.is/arnarfb/MagicCover.jpg

http://www.simnet.is/arnarfb/BirdCover.jpg

http://a6.sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc6/284876_10150726117885305_221292025304_19537679_292 4713_n.jpg



Just wanted to see what they all look like together.

[PleezeBehave]

Those are dope PleezeBehave.

Wait...:roll: @ your username!

:D

Yellow backdrop

http://www.simnet.is/arnarfb/MagicCover2a.jpg

[Toizumi]

:applause: Wow, nice work man. You should send those in to 2k, drop 'm in their ideabox (if they have one), or post them on their forums. Much better than the original ones.

[Rake2204]

:applause: Wow, nice work man. You should send those in to 2k, drop 'm in their ideabox (if they have one), or post them on their forums. Much better than the original ones.
I agree, but I think 2K went all red for a reason (kind of). It matches their 2K logo color and the idea was not to confuse consumers too much by offering three different colored versions of the same game (so as not to insinuate there were three different playing versions).

I don't think it'd be that confusing though. I'd much prefer those color schemes above.

[MiseryCityTexas]

I'm hoping for Shaq and AI (seperate) versions in a few years. But if they add more to the Jordan Challenge type mode, most likely making it a Historic Challenge Mode... it would just be awesome.

im thinkin if bird gets a challenge mode, then we might see the old school 80s rockets in this game. i hope barkley's suns make it in the game also. i havent seen charles barkley in a 2k game since nba 2k6.

[ace23]

First insight:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/nba-2k/nba-2k12-developer-insight-1-marketingcommunity-efforts/10150261500937267?_fb_noscript=1

[Rake2204]

First insight:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/nba-2k/nba-2k12-developer-insight-1-marketingcommunity-efforts/10150261500937267?_fb_noscript=1
Appreciated.

Mostly just an introduction. However, for those interested, the rest of the "Greatest" 15 will be revealed next Friday, alongside a rundown of the mode itself. That will be the first true insight.

[JaskoX1]

First insight:

https://www.facebook.com/notes/nba-2k/nba-2k12-developer-insight-1-marketingcommunity-efforts/10150261500937267?_fb_noscript=1
No Clyde Drexler? :facepalm

[EnoughSaid]

Prime Shaq in 2K would own.

I'm so happy we'll get to use Hakeem as well. They better add a lot more to the post for both offense and defense.

[Rake2204]

No Clyde Drexler? :facepalm
Clyde is back in. After appearing with the '92 Trail Blazers in 2K11, it looks as if he may be a part of an earlier Blazers squad this year (judging from the jerseys being used at the 28 sec mark of this video):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DnanXZt2IDY

Also worth a note, with the appearance of Randy Wittman in the trailer above, it seems the Hawks team featured will also come from a different year than the squad used in 2K11. The best bet is that the '88 Hawks will be used (for the Bird Duel) instead of the '90 team.

[ace23]

Legends revealed:

http://espn.go.com/espn/thelife/videogames/blog/_/name/thegamer/id/6874034/the-15-legends-nba-2k12?readmore=fullstory

[d.bball.guy]

Legends revealed:

http://espn.go.com/espn/thelife/videogames/blog/_/name/thegamer/id/6874034/the-15-legends-nba-2k12?readmore=fullstory
Bill Russell and West:bowdown:

I think it should have been the Warriors/76ers Wilt though.

[guy]

Sounds awesome.

Questions though. At first, I was kind of disappointed to see that there was no Barkley, and that they are using Kareem, Wilt, and Dr. J at the very end of their career. But if the 1971 Bucks are there, doesn't that mean we get Kareem starting from his second year? And if the 1985 Sixers are there, don't we get a rookie Barkley? I was assuming Barkley may have not let them use the rights to this game but they said one change they made to the classic rosters is that they have 10-12 of the players from each roster. Plus if they weren't including Barkley in the game, it wouldn't make much sense to use a mid-30s Dr. J when they could've shown him in his prime. Although it is odd that they don't have a challenge for Barkley.

The reason the age thing bothers me is cause one thing I did in 2K11 is import all the legends into my association mode and this means they wouldn't be as great and they would retire relatively early.

[97 bulls]

Anybody want to speculate what the ratings will be?