ESPN's entire panel agrees that Carmelo Anthony is NBA's most overrated

[28renyoy]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-110727/small-forwards-ratings

:roll:

Durant is also the most promising SF in the league despite already being a top 5 player with an unlimited ceiling.

[knickswin]

that's funny because I think ESPN is overrated

and Kevin Durant

your insecurities about Carmelo are so obvious

[ThaSwagg3r]

Way to blow the title out of proportion. Those guys said Carmelo Anthony is the most overrated SF in the league; not the most overrated player in the league. :rolleyes:

lol at the guys who said Pippen and LeBron were the greatest SFs of all-time though.

[28renyoy]

that's funny because I think ESPN is overrated

and Kevin Durant

your insecurities about Carmelo are so obvious

apparently ESPN has the same insecurities. I just find it hilarious that Carmelo/Knick stans run around and disrespect Durant, who is clearly better than Anthony. It would be like me saying 22 year old Durant is better then prime LeBron.

[NuggetsFan]

Durant will eventually surpass Melo quite easily down the line, kinda surprised he didn't this year to be honest. That being said there pretty much ='s right now. Melo is better at rebounding, passing. Durant probably has the edge defensively but Melo still can defend the post better. Durant's more efficient but Melo's more versatile. Apples and Oranges. Before this year I had Melo ahead because Durant was unproven in the post season but he changed that this year so I really wouldn't argue one above the other. Durant just has the higher ceiling because he's doing what Melo's doing in his prime when he's like 21-22 years old.

Melo's only overrated when you try to throw him in the top 5. Anything from like 6-12 is rated perfectly, and that's where most have him. Not sure why ESPN calls him the most overrated.

[Sarcastic]

apparently ESPN has the same insecurities. I just find it hilarious that Carmelo/Knick stans run around and disrespect Durant, who is clearly better than Anthony. It would be like me saying 22 year old Durant is better then prime LeBron.

Isn't that what you say? Wasn't he gonna win MVP this past year and do 50/40/90?

[28renyoy]

Let's see. Durant was better these last 2 seasons statistically than Anthony has ever been. Durant was better last post season than Anthony has ever been.

Durant in 2 playoffs has won as many series as Anthony has won in 8.

OK

Durant has better career numbers & playoff numbers despite the fact his rookie season, which is obviously inferior to his current numbers, is weighted much more heavily due to less years to offset it.

[NuggetsFan]

Isn't that what you say? Wasn't he gonna win MVP this past year and do 50/40/90?

Don't forget the 4 assists a game :oldlol:

[Sarcastic]

Let's see. Durant was better these last 2 seasons statistically than Anthony has ever been. Durant was better last post season than Anthony has ever been.

Durant in 2 playoffs has won as many series as Anthony has won in 8.

OK

Durant has better career numbers & playoff numbers despite the fact his rookie season, which is obviously inferior to his current numbers, is weighted much more heavily due to less years to offset it.

Maybe, but Carmelo pretty much shits on him H2H.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=anthoca01&p2=duranke01

Carmelo's awful defense somehow holds Durant to 42%. That's Iverson type chucker status right there.

[28renyoy]

Durant
Career 25.9/6.3/2.7 57.6 TS% 49.8 eFG% 21.8 PER .154 WSp48
Best season 30.1/7.6/2.8 60.7 TS% 51.4 eFG% 26.2 PER .238 WSp48
Career postseason 27.7/8.0/2.7 56.0 TS% 47.3 eFG% 22.3 PER .178 WSp48
Best postseason 28.6/8.2/2.8 58.2 TS% 50.3 eFG% 24.1 PER .217 WSp48


Anthony
Career 24.6/6.3/3.0 54.5 TS% 47.9 eFG% 20.3 PER .126 WSp48
Best season 28.9/6.0/3.8 56.3 TS% 49.3 eFG% 22.0 PER .153 WSp48
Career postseason 24.7/7.3/3.1 52.1 TS% 44.6 eFG% 19.6 PER .106 WSp48
Best postseason 27.2/5.8/4.1 56.4 TS% 49.1 eFG% 24.3 PER .201 WSp48


Durant in 4 years
2 scoring titles
2X all nba 1st team
2X top 5 MVP finish
2-2 playoff record
ROY

Melo in 4 years
0 scoring titles
0 all nba 1st team
0 top 5 MVP finishes
2-8 playoff record
0 ROY


Deron Williams shits all over Chris Paul head to head. Only an idiot would pick Williams over Paul to start a franchise both given 10 years of being completely healthy.

[FourthTenor]

Durant will eventually surpass Melo quite easily down the line, kinda surprised he didn't this year to be honest. That being said there pretty much ='s right now. Melo is better at rebounding, passing. Durant probably has the edge defensively but Melo still can defend the post better. Durant's more efficient but Melo's more versatile. Apples and Oranges. Before this year I had Melo ahead because Durant was unproven in the post season but he changed that this year so I really wouldn't argue one above the other. Durant just has the higher ceiling because he's doing what Melo's doing in his prime when he's like 21-22 years old.

Melo's only overrated when you try to throw him in the top 5. Anything from like 6-12 is rated perfectly, and that's where most have him. Not sure why ESPN calls him the most overrated.



that awkward nonsense basically amount to gobbledygook.

Carmelo IS overrated by fans and the media, because his one "skill" is happens to be making difficult - yet unimportant - shots. If Carmelo makes two out of every five difficult contested turnaround fadeaways, it's going to get more attention than if some scrub on the team makes a simple open jumper, followed by another role player getting a layup, and then a center getting a tip-in. Lesser players moving the ball around will still be more efficient than Carmelo hot-dogging. But the media and fans will love the "cool" looking baskets and make Carmelo the star. Meanwhile people still need to play defense, move well without the ball, rebound, pass well etc., none of which Anthony does, while the points are ultimately gonna be scored either way. See: Nuggets without Carmelo Anthony last year.

Need I remind you that last year the Nuggets were unable to trade Carmelo for the likes of Joakim Noah and Brook Lopez. When it comes down to W-L, teams value bigs who protect the paint more than flashy, volume-shooting wing scorers. Dumb fans and media love the dog and pony show that guys like Carmelo put on.

So in terms of perceived basketball impact by dummy fans, Carmelo is easily the league's most overrated. Altho guys like Stoudamire, Durant, Westbrook, etc. are also up there.

[NuggetsFan]

Maybe, but Carmelo pretty much shits on him H2H.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=anthoca01&p2=duranke01

Carmelo's awful defense somehow holds Durant to 42%. That's Iverson type chucker status right there.

Actually still pretty efficient tho. Takes like 19 shots to get 28 points. His ability to get to the free throw line and hit them at a high rate is pretty insane.

[28renyoy]

Apparently Melo's claim to fame is holding Durant to 27/7/3 on 57 TS% when Durant's career averages are 26/6/3 on 58 TS% :lol

[Sarcastic]

that awkward nonsense basically amount to gobbledygook.

Carmelo IS overrated by fans and the media, because his one "skill" is happens to be making difficult - yet unimportant - shots. If Carmelo makes two out of every five difficult contested turnaround fadeaways, it's going to get more attention than if some scrub on the team makes a simple open jumper, then another role player gets a layup, and then a center gets a tip-in. It doesnt make a difference basketball-wise which one happens, but the media and fans will love the "cool" looking baskets and make Carmelo the star. Meanwhile people still need to play defense, move well without the ball, rebound, pass well etc., none of which Anthony does, while the points are ultimately gonna be scored either way. See: Nuggets without Carmelo Anthony last year.

Need I remind you that last year the Nuggets were unable to trade Carmelo for the likes of Joakim Noah and Brook Lopez. When it comes down to W-L, teams value bigs who protect the paint more than flashy, volume-shooting wing scorers. Dumb fans and media love the dog and pony show that guys like Carmelo put on.

So in terms of perceived basketball impact by dummy fans, Carmelo is easily the league's most overrated. Altho guys like Stoudamire and Durant are also up there.

Da fck are you talking about? Carmelo is known for being best at hitting clutch shots with the clock winding down. Since when are those unimportant?

http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Carmelo Anthony 13 27 .481

Kevin Durant 5 14 .357 :lol

LeBron James 17 50 .340

Kobe Bryant 14 56 .250

[NuggetsFan]

that awkward nonsense basically amount to gobbledygook.

Carmelo IS overrated by fans and the media, because his one "skill" is happens to be making difficult - yet unimportant - shots. If Carmelo makes two out of every five difficult contested turnaround fadeaways, it's going to get more attention than if some scrub on the team makes a simple open jumper, then another role player gets a layup, and then a center gets a tip-in. It doesnt make a difference basketball-wise which one happens, but the media and fans will love the "cool" looking baskets and make Carmelo the star. Meanwhile people still need to play defense, move well without the ball, rebound, pass well etc., none of which Anthony does, while the points are ultimately gonna be scored either way. See: Nuggets without Carmelo Anthony last year.

Need I remind you that last year the Nuggets were unable to trade Carmelo for the likes of Joakim Noah and Brook Lopez. When it comes down to W-L, teams value bigs who protect the paint more than flashy, volume-shooting wing scorers. Dumb fans and media love the dog and pony show that guys like Carmelo put on.

So in terms of perceived basketball impact by dummy fans, Carmelo is easily the league's most overrated. Altho guys like Stoudamire and Durant are also up there.

You try waaaay to hard to be unique. Still can't fathom the idea that without players like Melo making tough shots guy's who hit those "simple" shots wouldn't convert at the same rate because defensive coverage would be 100x different. Drawing double teams matter. How teams guard you matter. The ability to hit and create the type offense Melo can is valuable. Either way Melo pulls down 7 board a game witch very good for his position. Averages like 3 assists a game, so all tho not a strong suit isn't like he's Nick Young. His lazy D hurts teams through out the season but it's not like he doesn't step it up. Just not consistent.

Nuggets were simply 2 deep at every position. Had Ty Lawson who IMO was better than Billups. Denver was just a really good team with or without Melo. Flamed out in the playoffs tho.

Either way Melo isn't the most overrated player, and your the guy who doesn't realize the difference a Luis Scola and STAT.

[28renyoy]

Da fck are you talking about? Carmelo is known for being best at hitting clutch shots with the clock winding down. Since when are those unimportant?

http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm

Carmelo Anthony 13 27 .481

Kevin Durant 5 14 .357 :lol

LeBron James 17 50 .340

Kobe Bryant 14 56 .250

You're laughing at Durant when you're favorite player, LeBron, is even lower :facepalm

[Sarcastic]

Apparently Melo's claim to fame is holding Durant to 27/7/3 on 57 TS% when Durant's career averages are 26/6/3 on 58 TS% :lol

10-1

[Sarcastic]

You're laughing at Durant when you're favorite player, LeBron, is even lower :facepalm

I hate LeBronze. Where you get that shit from? Cuz I acknowledge he is the best in the game?

[28renyoy]

10-1

And? Do you think Dirk is a better player than LeBron/Wade? Whom he just beat head to head in the Finals?

I guess you would build a team around Dirk rather than both Wade/James.

Forget the other 78 games a year, the 4 they play head to head means everything. Forget sample size & variance

[28renyoy]

Deron Williams is 12-4 vs Chris Paul. He also torches Paul numbers wise, much more so than Anthony does to Durant.

I guess you would build around Williams if both were completely healthy?

[Sarcastic]

Deron Williams is 12-4 vs Chris Paul. He also torches Paul numbers wise, much more so than Anthony does to Durant.

I guess you would build around Williams if both were completely healthy?

I don't know who I would take in that one. That's pretty 6 on 1 hand, half a dozen on the other.

[Scoooter]

Most people consider Melo to be the second or third best SF in the league right now. How is that overrating him? He's obviously not better than LeBron, but no one really says he is. Saying he's better than Durant is hardly a stretch, but at worst he's only slightly below him. Who else should be considered a better SF? The only one that makes sense is Pierce. So, if you take that approach, at worst, considering Melo to be a top 3 SF is just one spot too high.

[28renyoy]

Most people consider Melo to be the second or third best SF in the league right now. How is that overrating him? He's obviously not better than LeBron, but no one really says he is. Saying he's better than Durant is hardly a stretch, but at worst he's only slightly below him. Who else should be considered a better SF? The only one that makes sense is Pierce. So, if you take that approach, at worst, considering Melo to be a top 3 SF is just one spot too high.

It's not only at the position. It's who is the most overrated player who happens to play SF.

Anthony is put in the top 5-7 players in the league by several, and in the same echelon as Durant. He is simply not that good. He is a volume scorer on average efficiency. A great rebounder for his opposition who is average-below average at everything else.

He gets overrated, like Iverson, due to his flashy play when the output doesn't match the hype. Just like how Mike Vick got overrated in Atlanta. He was very average in terms of QB's but everyone loved him because of his flashy play.

[Sarcastic]

It's not only at the position. It's who is the most overrated player who happens to play SF.

Anthony is put in the top 5-7 players in the league by several, and in the same echelon as Durant. He is simply not that good. He is a volume scorer on average efficiency. A great rebounder for his opposition who is average-below average at everything else.

He gets overrated, like Iverson, due to his flashy play when the output doesn't match the hype. Just like how Mike Vick got overrated in Atlanta. He was very average in terms of QB's but everyone loved him because of his flashy play.

What flashy play? He plays mostly a mid range game. Is that considered flashy these days?

[FourthTenor]

Da fck are you talking about? Carmelo is known for being best at hitting clutch shots with the clock winding down. Since when are those unimportant?



Umm, since "clutch" is a mystical fairytale used to create the ever-important "hero" in sports.

Kobe Bryant statistically is not clutch. Michael Jordan missed way more "clutch" shots than he made. Robert Horry hit a ton of clutch shots. Did he have a clutch gene? No. The coin just landed on the good side more often than not. Sometimes you get heads 5 times in a row. That's not clutch coin flipping. It's random chance. Is Derek Fisher born with clutch in his veins? No. He is the beneficiary of his shot happening to fall at fortuitous moments.

Carmelo is still a 46% shooter. People are desperate to turn team sports into "star capades" where the one hero leads the pack to glory on a white horse with a fair maiden behind him. People love the fairytale stuff, it sells well in the media, and so "clutch" is born.


In football, a sport where guys get hurt ALL THE TIME, if a guy gets hurt two years in a row he's labeled more fragile and injury prone than a guy who didnt, the thought is never even given to the fact that it could just be chance that one guy flipped heads twice and the other flipped tails twice. Believe it or not, random things do happen in this world. Everything doesnt have a great mythical explaination, including inexplicable "clutchness"

[knickswin]

is joyner going for the record for posting the most Carmelo-vs-Durant threads?

[NewYorkNoPicks]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/page/5-on-5-110727/small-forwards-ratings

:roll:

Durant is also the most promising SF in the league despite already being a top 5 player with an unlimited ceiling.

Too bad every single person whose opinions were considered in the article were all from blog sites.....pathetic.

And you guys can hate all you want because the fact of the matter is that all of NY is happy to have Melo, and 9 times out of 10 hes better than your favorite teams best player

[28renyoy]

Too bad every single person whose opinions were considered in the article were all from blog sites.....pathetic.

And you guys can hate all you want because the fact of the matter is that all of NY is happy to have Melo, and 9 times out of 10 hes better than your favorite teams best player


Dwight-nope
Dirk-nope
LeBron/Wade-nope
Durant-nope
Rose-nope
Kobe-nope
CP3-nope
Deron Williams-nope


Hell he might not even be better than Amare or Nash

[ballerz]

lol at it not everyone agreeing that larry legend is the best SF ever.

[NewYorkNoPicks]

Dwight-nope
Dirk-nope
LeBron/Wade-nope
Durant-nope
Rose-nope
Kobe-nope
CP3-nope
Deron Williams-nope


Hell he might not even be better than Amare or Nash

If you think Melo isnt better than Amare then its clear you have an agenda and/or do not watch the nba that often. And yes Melo is better than Dirk a statement most would hav agreed with prior to the Mavs winning the title.

So excluding Dirk you named 6 players, 2 of which are on the same team so that leaves 25 teams out of 30 who dont have a star player as talented as Melo...which pretty much satisfies my 9 out of 10 probability regarding him.


Either way you still proved my argument

[Scoooter]

Dwight-nope
Dirk-nope
LeBron/Wade-nope
Durant-nope
Rose-nope
Kobe-nope
CP3-nope
Deron Williams-nope


Hell he might not even be better than Amare or Nash
Dwight, Dirk, LeBron, Wade, CP3, Amar'e, Nash, no, Melo isn't better at basketball than those guys. I'd put D-Will here too, but I've never been completely sold on him. Something's off.
Durant, maybe. Melo kills him H2H, but Durant I think will get better than he is now, and he's pretty good right now. Toss up.
I'd rather have Melo than Kobe, and I think he's better than Rose.

[28renyoy]

If you think Melo isnt better than Amare then its clear you have an agenda and/or do not watch the nba that often. And yes Melo is better than Dirk a statement most would hav agreed with prior to the Mavs winning the title.

So excluding Dirk you named 6 players, 2 of which are on the same team so that leaves 25 teams out of 30 who dont have a star player as talented as Melo...which pretty much satisfies my 9 out of 10 probability regarding him.


Either way you still proved my argument

90%, 9 of 10, of the league would be all but 3 teams. You sure I proved your point? And LOL @ Melo being better than Dirk

[bagelred]

Wow, so much Carmelo Anthony hate. I wasn't even a huge Melo guy before he became a Knick, but even I know, and I thought it was understood, that he's the best clutch shooter in the league. 13 for 27 on game winning shots. That is truly incredible.

Melo's defense clearly needs to improve, but for those who think he's "one dimensional".....maybe you aren't just paying attention.

Out of 34 Small Forwards that qualified last year (we'll use per 48 to make comparisons fair):

Scoring Per 48 Minutes:
Melo 34.4 PPG (1st)
KD 34.1 PPG (2nd)

Rebounds per 48 Minutes:
Melo 9.8 RPG (3rd)
KD 8.4 RPG (10th)

Assists per 48 Minutes:
Melo 3.9 APG (6th)
KD 3.4 APG (15th)


So not only is Carmelo an elite scorer, he's also an elite rebounder for his position, and way above average assists for his postion, beating KD in the three most important statistical categories.

I'll concede that KD is better defensively, and maybe somewhat more efficient, but this "Melo is so overrated" and "KD is clearly better" thing is getting silly.

[The-Legend-24]

Give me Melo any day. More versatility to his offensive game, and actually averages assists unlike durant.

[Heavincent]

ESPN doesn't know what they are talking about.

This doesn't prove anything.

[JerrySteakhouse]

Melo is probably the best scorer in the league... Can't hate...

[SevereUpInHere]

Umm, since "clutch" is a mystical fairytale used to create the ever-important "hero" in sports.

Kobe Bryant statistically is not clutch. Michael Jordan missed way more "clutch" shots than he made. Robert Horry hit a ton of clutch shots. Did he have a clutch gene? No. The coin just landed on the good side more often than not. Sometimes you get heads 5 times in a row. That's not clutch coin flipping. It's random chance. Is Derek Fisher born with clutch in his veins? No. He is the beneficiary of his shot happening to fall at fortuitous moments.




This is flat out ridiculous. Being clutch means being able to physically perform tasks i.e hitting a shot, making a freethrow or whatever when there is an immense amount of pressure on. Fisher might hit 8 out of 10 3 pointers in practice with no defender running at him, no screaming crowd, no clock ticking down, and for him to be able to shoot the exact same shot by putting those things out of his mind and focusing purely on the mechanics of the shot... THAT'S what being clutch is.


To compare it to flipping a coin is stupid. You have control of how a shot leaves your hand, you have no control over how a coin will land. You must be trolling.

[LA_Showtime]

I'd agree with ESPN if Anthony got any press for being in the same tier as LeBron, Kobe, Wade, Howard, etc... but he doesn't. He's one of the most disrespected superstars in the game and to the average fan he's a nobody. Anthony's the guy who peaked in high school (popularity wise) and disappeared once he came to the big league (college).

[28renyoy]

Wow, so much Carmelo Anthony hate. I wasn't even a huge Melo guy before he became a Knick, but even I know, and I thought it was understood, that he's the best clutch shooter in the league. 13 for 27 on game winning shots. That is truly incredible.

Melo's defense clearly needs to improve, but for those who think he's "one dimensional".....maybe you aren't just paying attention.

Out of 34 Small Forwards that qualified last year (we'll use per 48 to make comparisons fair):

Scoring Per 48 Minutes:
Melo 34.4 PPG (1st)
KD 34.1 PPG (2nd)

Rebounds per 48 Minutes:
Melo 9.8 RPG (3rd)
KD 8.4 RPG (10th)

Assists per 48 Minutes:
Melo 3.9 APG (6th)
KD 3.4 APG (15th)


So not only is Carmelo an elite scorer, he's also an elite rebounder for his position, and way above average assists for his postion, beating KD in the three most important statistical categories.

I'll concede that KD is better defensively, and maybe somewhat more efficient, but this "Melo is so overrated" and "KD is clearly better" thing is getting silly.


Kobe per 36 last year
26.9/5.6/5.0

Wade per 36 last year
24.7/6.2/4.8

You really believe Kobe was better than Wade last season? Exactly

[bdreason]

I think Durant is better than Melo... but Melo isn't the most overrated player in the league. In fact, I think he actually gets underrated slightly, as ESPN analysts and others always refer to him as one-dimensional, when he's actually a pretty solid defender as well.

[bdreason]

Anthony's the guy who peaked in high school (popularity wise) and disappeared once he came to the big league (college).



Melo led Syracuse to an NCAA Championship as a freshman. :confusedshrug:

[knicksman]

And? Do you think Dirk is a better player than LeBron/Wade? Whom he just beat head to head in the Finals?

I guess you would build a team around Dirk rather than both Wade/James.

Forget the other 78 games a year, the 4 they play head to head means everything. Forget sample size & variance

then i guess you got exposed how an idiot you are with this statement.

[knicksman]

It's not only at the position. It's who is the most overrated player who happens to play SF.

Anthony is put in the top 5-7 players in the league by several, and in the same echelon as Durant. He is simply not that good. He is a volume scorer on average efficiency. A great rebounder for his opposition who is average-below average at everything else.

He gets overrated, like Iverson, due to his flashy play when the output doesn't match the hype. Just like how Mike Vick got overrated in Atlanta. He was very average in terms of QB's but everyone loved him because of his flashy play.

i guess idiots really dont have reading comprehension. LOL

[knicksman]

i rank players based on unstoppability and melo is number 1 among the perimeter players followed by kobe due to his age and durant. until durant knew how to score on iso situations which is the most difficult to score that requires alot of skills then thats the time ill rank him over melo but now. he is just like amare in a small forwards body that needs a pg to be effective. when melo had andre miller, hes shooting better FG% at that time although the FT% is low yet which explains the low TS%.

and LOL at people thinking durant will still improve when melo in his 4th yr has posted better stats and could have been much better if not for iverson joining.

[28renyoy]

i rank players based on unstoppability and melo is number 1 among the perimeter players followed by kobe due to his age and durant. until durant knew how to score on iso situations which is the most difficult to score that requires alot of skills then thats the time ill rank him over melo but now. he is just like amare in a small forwards body that needs a pg to be effective. when melo had andre miller, hes shooting better FG% at that time although the FT% is low yet which explains the low TS%.

and LOL at people thinking durant will still improve when melo in his 4th yr has posted better stats and could have been much better if not for iverson joining.

Melo is more unstoppable yet Durant puts up much better numbers vs tougher defenses & has better playoff numbers. Ya ok brah.

BTW Durant's 3rd year shits on Melo's 4th year statistically and Melo was taking more shots

[Jasi]

joyner will you please stop?

You make people hate Durant, when he really doesn't deserve it.


...Aw wait, I guess that's what trolls are for.

[Clutch]

Can we stop this shit now ?

Carmelo Anthony per 36 minutes:
25.8 PPG , 7.4 RPG , 2.9 APG .455 / .378 / .838

Kevin Durant per 36 minutes:
25.6 PPG , 6.3 RPG , 2.5 APG .462 / .350 / .880

Durant scores more but he also plays more minutes so it's fair to use "per 36" stats. (difference between minutes played isn't big so it's fair to use it,joyner don't give me another 10 mpg vs 40 mpg players example)

Melo is a more versatile scorer,pretty much efficient as Durant from the field.He is also a better rebounder despite Durant's height advantage.
Only thing where Durant is better than Melo is free-throw percentage.
We can add defense to that list but it's arguable because we shouldn't act like Durant is a good while Melo is a poor defender. It's close.
And the last one,Melo owns Durant head 2 head.
Did I mention that Melo is the clutchest player in the league ?

Durant is younger and has more room to improve than Melo but is he clearly a better player now ? NO
Some people will choose Durant,some people will choose Melo.You can't go wrong because it's very close.Right now I would choose Melo because of his versatility on offense.

[28renyoy]

^ per 36 :lol

Kobe had better numbers than Wade last season per 36. Kobe>Wade?

LOL @ FG%. Anyone referencing it just looks like an idiot.
LOL @ ignoring the fact Durant takes 5.3 3's per game which brings down his FG%

[Clutch]

^ per 36 :lol

Kobe had better numbers than Wade last season per 36. Kobe>Wade?

LOL @ FG%. Anyone referencing it just looks like an idiot.
LOL @ ignoring the fact Durant takes 5.3 3's per game which brings down his FG%
lol @ you ignoring everything except TS%

someone: "Player A is better than Player B in almost everything"
joyner: "Who gives a **** ? Player B has a better TS% so he must be a better player"

Even if you count their stats without "per 36" Melo has more rebounds and assists despite playing more than 3 minutes less per game.

[28renyoy]

lol @ you ignoring everything except TS%

someone: "Player A is better than Player B in almost everything"
joyner: "Who gives a **** ? Player B has a better TS% so he must be a better player"

I use both TS% and eFG%. eFG% accounts for shots on the floor & TS% brings FT's into account.

I don't only care about TS%. But it determines who wins games 99% of the time if rebounding/turnovers are equal.

[Sroek]

Melo is actually underrated because so many people think he's overrated.

Melo can guard 2's, 3's and 4s' and can rebound exceptionally well.

[Clutch]

Melo is actually underrated because so many people think he's overrated.

Melo can guard 2's, 3's and 4s' and can rebound exceptionally well.
This. And Durant is actually overrated because he is even more one-dimensional than Melo but no one talks about it but when it comes to Melo everyone talks about it.

Melo is a more versatile scorer and a better rebounder.
Durant basically plays like a 6'10 Ray Allen but no one ever mentioned it.

[28renyoy]

more versatile yet he scores less ppg on much lower efficiency :roll:

I guess 95 points>105 points if you score in more ways

jesus melo stans are so dumb.

[v1ncelis]

C'mon. He's torching and bashing here on ISH or whatever else more than he deserves.
He isn't overrated.

[Clutch]

more versatile yet he scores less ppg on much lower efficiency :roll:

I guess 95 points>105 points if you score in more ways

jesus melo stans are so dumb.
He scores basically the same as Durant.
Durant scores more but he plays more minutes.

per 36 scoring Melo > Durant

Why is he scoring on much lower efficiency ? Because he shoots 0.7% from the field :lol

What's even worse for you is that Melo's efficiency in NY is same as Durant's.
Melo: .461 FG% , .424 3-pt % , .872 FT% .510 eFG% , .575 TS% (and he scores 0.6 more PPG per 36 minutes)
Durant: .462 FG% , .350 3-pt% , .880 FT% , .509 eFG% , .589 TS%

CONGRATULATIONS.
Durant scores less per minute on same efficiency as Melo and he is worse rebounder out of those 2.Melo is also more versatile which makes him the best game-winning shots maker since he came in the league.

I'm done arguing with you.Go find some Durant picture and jerk off on it.

[alenleomessi]

:facepalm at those 'experts' not choosing larry bird as goat sf

[Sarcastic]

:facepalm at those 'experts' not choosing larry bird as goat sf

Tells you something about the quality of these morons opinions.

[kurple]

Melo has been a bit overrated after the trade, but that will happen when you join a big market team like the Knicks

[bagelred]

Dwight, Dirk, LeBron, Wade, CP3, Amar'e, Nash, no, Melo isn't better at basketball than those guys.
I'd rather have Melo than Kobe, and I think he's better than Rose.

Dirk, Nash, and Kobe are getting old. I definitely wouldn't take any of those three right now over Melo. I think now Dirk is getting a little overrated because of The Finals performance. But clearly I take Melo over those guys because of age difference.

But I'm surprised you'd take Melo over Rose. Rose is a beast and an insane competitor. I'd probably take Rose

I'd take Rose, Lebron, Griffin, and Dwight over Melo. Not sure about Kevin Durant. CP3 and Amare both have injury histories.....so I'm not sure. Kobe, Dirk, and of course, Nash are past their physical primes, even if they are all still productive.

[lakers_forever]

Forget that. 2 of them don't think Bird is the greatest SF ever. And one that did, said Lebron will catch him (not may, will), while other wanted to vote so bad for Baylor ahead of Bird.

Mr. Patrick Hayes think the best SF ever might be Lebron already, if not then Dr. J. Therefore, Bird is not even the second greatest SF ever. :oldlol:

The "basketball blog" guy thinks Pippen was the best SF ever and that he was "easily the second best player in the league for years alongside Michael Jordan". :oldlol:

Respect the greatest SF ever (being a lakers fan don't make me blind):

http://www.4sportboston.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/03/larry_bird_2.jpg

Don't expect me to post a Celtics jersey though. :D

[Maniak]

How can you take them seriously when their answer for best small forward isn't Larry Bird?

[Maniak]

How can you take them seriously when their answer for best small forward isn't Larry Bird?

[MeLO MvP 15]

This is one of the biggest reason I don't take anything ESPN seriously (except from a few of their writers)...

I feel like most of them don't even watch games and just comment on things by speculation, reputation and from whatever little they've seen. Like honestly, Melo isn't a bad defender anymore. When he wants to he's an amazing defender, and even when he doesn't (which is my biggest gripe about Melo, sometimes his defensive effort isn't the best, but he's still not bad at it) he's at least average. Three to four years ago, his defense was atrocious, but now its actually good and I hate espn guys just think they can go by and say stupid things that aren't true.

It may sound like I'm just a homer just like "o noes ppls are criticizing my fav playa, he's tha best with zero flaws and i need to prove it," but honestly I think most will agree Melo is far from over-rated. He's actually very underrated by many (as seen by that article).

[nbacardDOTnet]

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/0%20Players/Lebron%20James/0%20cant%20stop/8cbb5817.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/0%20Players/Lebron%20James/0%20cant%20stop/rudy-made-queen-lbj-total-joke101120.gif

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/0%20Players/Lebron%20James/0%20cant%20stop/20101120.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Funny%20NBA%20Record/Lebron%20James/aka%20big%20choker/lebron-james-2011-nba-final-4q.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/Others%20Masterpiece/0%20queen%20lebron%20james/-espn.jpg

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn200/nbacardDOTnet/zz%20NBA%20Photo%20Gallery/z%20Funny%20NBA%20Photos/0%20Players/Lebron%20James/0%20cant%20stop/spo-20101120.jpg

[LA_Showtime]

Melo led Syracuse to an NCAA Championship as a freshman. :confusedshrug:

What? Maybe I didn't make myself clear (or you're just dumb...). Anthony's college career is the high school jock who got fat and became just another guy in college.

[Joey Zaza]

When everyone thinks you are overrated, that's the momnet you become underrated.

Nice job Melo...plus Melo underatedness will help amare win an MVP (just like Deng supposed underratedness got Rose his).

[bdreason]

What? Maybe I didn't make myself clear (or you're just dumb...). Anthony's college career is the high school jock who got fat and became just another guy in college.


He won a title his only year in College, was a strong candidate for ROTY, then led the NBA in scoring and is now widely regarded as a top 10 NBA player and top 3 SF.


I don't really know what you're trying to say.

[Joey Zaza]

and amare jsut got votes for most overrated power forward. YES NY -- apparently everyone everywhere thinks we're great..even though ESPN knows differently.

I like this bit of reasoning:

"Defense and rebounding and not turning the ball over matter, too. Even though he's a very good scorer and an eminently useful power forward, Amare Stoudemire shouldn't be in the conversation for best power forward in the age of Nowitzki, Kevin Garnett, Pau Gasol and Griffin."

This past season Amare outrebounded Dirk and KG and he wasn't far behind Pau. but whatever...he is also overrated.

[LA_Showtime]

He won a title his only year in College, was a strong candidate for ROTY, then led the NBA in scoring and is now widely regarded as a top 10 NBA player and top 3 SF.


I don't really know what you're trying to say.

He's the most overlooked and disrespected superstar in the league. He gets absolutely no love from the media or refs.

[bdreason]

He's the most overlooked and disrespected superstar in the league. He gets absolutely no love from the media or refs.


oh ok, I kind of agree. Your analogy was terrible though.

[LA_Showtime]

oh ok, I kind of agree. Your analogy was terrible though.

How? The most popular high school kid becomes just another student in college. How does that analogy NOT work?

[bdreason]

Sorry I missed that you were talking about popularity, and thought you were talking about skill/success.

[Smoke117]

This was not a new concept. Everybody has known Carmelo has been the most overrated sf in the league for years now.

[bdreason]

And I would say his popularity peaked right before AI arrived in Denver. Melo was popular his first couple years in the league, and then a few things happened (fight/DUI/etc.) and the media kind of turned on him, and branded him a cocky juvenile who just wants score.

[knickswin]

This is one of the biggest reason I don't take anything ESPN seriously (except from a few of their writers)...

I feel like most of them don't even watch games and just comment on things by speculation, reputation and from whatever little they've seen. Like honestly, Melo isn't a bad defender anymore. When he wants to he's an amazing defender, and even when he doesn't (which is my biggest gripe about Melo, sometimes his defensive effort isn't the best, but he's still not bad at it) he's at least average. Three to four years ago, his defense was atrocious, but now its actually good and I hate espn guys just think they can go by and say stupid things that aren't true.

It may sound like I'm just a homer just like "o noes ppls are criticizing my fav playa, he's tha best with zero flaws and i need to prove it," but honestly I think most will agree Melo is far from over-rated. He's actually very underrated by many (as seen by that article).

This. Amar'e is a genuinely bad defender whose horribleness hurts us because it seems like every power forward in the league has a career game against us (off the top of my head: Blake, Love, Hansbrough. Carmelo is an adequate defender who can play really good defense in crunch time.

[Joey Zaza]

Honestly, what makes 'Melo overrated. Is there anyone who disagrees he is an elite socrer in the league? Is there anyone who disagrees that his scoring is really his strongest quality-by alot? Is there anyone who thinks of him as a great passer, rebounder, or defender? He's a good rebounder for his position, but he's certainly not renown for that.

So, where is the overrating? Where are the people who so bady misjudge his talent? (OMG THE KNICKS GAVE UP SO MUCH!!!) No they didn't...they gave two other guys who are primarily scorers and very little else (Gallo/Chand), one massive project, and downgraded Felton to Billups.

And the amare overrating is also crazy...wo thinks he is more than he is...and how great was he last year. Was there anything else he could've delivered (OMG! DEFENSE!! OMG Dirk didnt defend anyone either) that he didnt?

[LJJ]

He scores basically the same as Durant.
Durant scores more but he plays more minutes.

per 36 scoring Melo > Durant

Why is he scoring on much lower efficiency ? Because he shoots 0.7% from the field :lol

What's even worse for you is that Melo's efficiency in NY is same as Durant's.
Melo: .461 FG% , .424 3-pt % , .872 FT% .510 eFG% , .575 TS% (and he scores 0.6 more PPG per 36 minutes)
Durant: .462 FG% , .350 3-pt% , .880 FT% , .509 eFG% , .589 TS%

CONGRATULATIONS.
Durant scores less per minute on same efficiency as Melo and he is worse rebounder out of those 2.Melo is also more versatile which makes him the best game-winning shots maker since he came in the league.

I'm done arguing with you.Go find some Durant picture and jerk off on it.

Once again you are posting stuff that clearly indicates you don't really watch a lot of basketball.



A dominant 25+ppg scorer having the off-the-ball skill Durant has is kind of unheard of in the NBA. It creates a very different dynamic on offense to have a star player like that, because he is still very involved in and important to the offense when he is not getting the FGA. Very different from a guy like Anthony, who can score in bunches when he has the ball but doesn't really contribute without the ball.

The thing is, off the ball movement, creating space and etc -generally being involved in the offense without making assists or shooting the ball- don't show up on the statsheet. Thus leading to moronic statements like "Melo is more versatile than Durant (lol) and has the same efficiency." by people who haven't really seen both players play. (or simply don't really understand what they are watching)

[Rowe]

I think I lost it when seeing that idiot claim Melo is more suited to be in the 20-25 range of best players in the NBA.
:wtf:

[The Ownage]

How can you call someone overrated when all I'm seeing is people disrespecting Melo's game and not rating it at all? lol

[Joey Zaza]

Its all part of the fun storyline for the Knicks. if they win and play well its "Well, they got amare and melo, of course they played well" if they play fair or poorly its "I told you those guys were overrated"

All we can do is hope for the season and root for them to win.

[Rowe]

How can you call someone overrated when all I'm seeing is people disrespecting Melo's game and not rating it at all? lol
Its been going on for years.

Im still trying to figure out how someone can claim Melo is overrated when for a majority of his career hes been viewed as an "Elite SF". Melo isnt better than LeBron, & at some point there will be 100% agreement on Durant surpassing him as 2nd best SF. So where does that put him? 3rd best Elite SF in the NBA? OK.

You do a ranking of Top 10 players in the NBA and Melo at the highest would be at #9. I dont think there is anyone here proclaiming him to be a Top 5 player overall. You see the arguments about Durant vs Melo with such a small statistical difference in terms of numbers & value to a team and people forget that Melo's numbers are still Elite. Hes been considered overrated by his naysayers for so long that hes practically being underrated as a player.

[28renyoy]

Its been going on for years.

Im still trying to figure out how someone can claim Melo is overrated when for a majority of his career hes been viewed as an "Elite SF". Melo isnt better than LeBron, & at some point there will be 100% agreement on Durant surpassing him as 2nd best SF. So where does that put him? 3rd best Elite SF in the NBA? OK.

You do a ranking of Top 10 players in the NBA and Melo at the highest would be at #9. I dont think there is anyone here proclaiming him to be a Top 5 player overall. You see the arguments about Durant vs Melo with such a small statistical difference in terms of numbers & value to a team and people forget that Melo's numbers are still Elite. Hes been considered overrated by his naysayers for so long that hes practically being underrated as a player.

He's considered the 3rd best SF in the league which is exactly what he is. He isn't overrated among SF rankings, he's overrated among everyone in the NBA rankings.

He's a borderline top 10 player(really more or less 12-15 range), yet he creeps into several peoples top 6-8 which is not what he is.

[ThaSwagg3r]

He's considered the 3rd best SF in the league which is exactly what he is. He isn't overrated among SF rankings, he's overrated among everyone in the NBA rankings.

He's a borderline top 10 player(really more or less 12-15 range), yet he creeps into several peoples top 6-8 which is not what he is.
Give me 8 players that are better than Melo. And he is top 10, in the 8-10 range.

Here are the only guys I can think of that are definitely better...

Wade
Dirk
Dwight
LeBron
CP3
Durant

Nobody else is definitely better than him. Melo is in the Kobe-Rose-Nash tier, which is the 6-10 range.

[knickswin]

Once again you are posting stuff that clearly indicates you don't really watch a lot of basketball.

A dominant 25+ppg scorer having the off-the-ball skill Durant has is kind of unheard of in the NBA. It creates a very different dynamic on offense to have a star player like that, because he is still very involved in and important to the offense when he is not getting the FGA. Very different from a guy like Anthony, who can score in bunches when he has the ball but doesn't really contribute without the ball.

The thing is, off the ball movement, creating space and etc -generally being involved in the offense without making assists or shooting the ball- don't show up on the statsheet. Thus leading to moronic statements like "Melo is more versatile than Durant (lol) and has the same efficiency." by people who haven't really seen both players play. (or simply don't really understand what they are watching)

There are both advantages and disadvantages to being an off-the-ball scorer, one isn't necessarily better than the other. Besides, Carmelo isn't really the type of player who will hinder your offense even though he has a reputation as a ball-stopper. He can play off the ball pretty well himself because he's a good cutter and shooter. Also, Mike D'Antoni is all about quick movements and decision-making and I think it's really helping Carmelo's game.


Also, I know that having a player like Durant can be a huge asset to an offense, but the Thunder's offense is really ugly. There's a lot of standing around watching on the perimeter, a lot of Russell Westbrook and James Harden looking to draw fouls, a lot of overly simplistic plays, a lot failed plays, and pretty much no post scoring. That's Scott Brooks fault mostly. In theory you could use Durant's elite catch-and-shoot ability to run a lot of pretty stuff, but usually they're just running him around screens at the perimeter.

[Rowe]

He's considered the 3rd best SF in the league which is exactly what he is. He isn't overrated among SF rankings, he's overrated among everyone in the NBA rankings.

He's a borderline top 10 player(really more or less 12-15 range), yet he creeps into several peoples top 6-8 which is not what he is.

That is still Elite.

I can see him creeping into the top 6-8 range because he goes for stretches during games where he takes over and can put a team on his back.


LeBron
Wade
CP3
Dwight
Kobe
Rose
Durant
Dirk

Look, I've put together a group of 8 "Elite" players I consider better than Melo as of right now.

However you are going to have people who put him above either of those 3 guys in Bold/Italics. That puts him that 6-8 range you claim people shouldnt put him in.

There is no way hes lower than #11. Thats only if you feel Deron & Amare are better. That is the cut-off point IMO for the "Elite #1 option" players in the NBA.

[thejumpa]

If you say Melo is the #9 player in the league, you are already overrating him. I don't know about #25, but I've been saying what ESPN has for years. The guy is an elite scorer and that's it. Sure, he's better than Durant, but that isn't saying much. Durant is the same player minus an effective post game. They are two players that can impact the game in only one way: scoring the ball. Also, if we really want to get into it, what about his work ethic or attention to detail? All I've seen over the years is a more polished offensive game. No ballhandling skills, no team leadership, no defense, no passing skills. Sure, he's shown flashes...but he's just not consistent. He's the Amar'e of SF's. I can't even say that with a straight face because Amar'e has actually evolved over the years and added things to his game that Melo hasn't. I absolutely LOVE his offensive game but hate how he turns human if his shot isn't falling. He's the definition of overrated.

[Clutch]

Once again you are posting stuff that clearly indicates you don't really watch a lot of basketball.

I stopped reading here.

Watching 150+ NBA games per season isn't a lot of basketball ?
If you count the fact that I'm from Europe and most games are very late at night (1,2,3 am) I'm pretty sure that you aren't as dedicated basketball fan as me.I also watch some European basketball so it's basically around 200 games a year.

And Durant has shown his off-ball abilities,he was bullied by Tony Allen,6'4 shooting guard. :lol

Common guys,continue to underrate/hate Melo and Amare.
Our success will taste even better.

[LJJ]

]There are both advantages and disadvantages to being an off-the-ball scorer, one isn't necessarily better than the other.[/B] Besides, Carmelo isn't really the type of player who will hinder your offense even though he has a reputation as a ball-stopper. He can play off the ball pretty well himself because he's a good cutter and shooter. Also, Mike D'Antoni is all about quick movements and decision-making and I think it's really helping Carmelo's game.


Also, I know that having a player like Durant can be a huge asset to an offense, but the Thunder's offense is really ugly. There's a lot of standing around watching on the perimeter, a lot of Russell Westbrook and James Harden looking to draw fouls, a lot of overly simplistic plays, a lot failed plays, and pretty much no post scoring. That's Scott Brooks fault mostly. In theory you could use Durant's elite catch-and-shoot ability to run a lot of pretty stuff, but usually they're just running him around screens at the perimeter.

That's true in theory, but false in practice. Considering in the NBA you need to have multiple great players on the team to win (usually....) and almost all of those are as ball dominant as they are, a player like Durant is a tremendous asset to have. He's probably the player easiest to build around currently other than Howard.


Agreed on all the things you said about the Thunder's offense though.

[LJJ]

The five stages of grief.


I stopped reading here.

Watching 150+ NBA games per season isn't a lot of basketball ?
If you count the fact that I'm from Europe and most games are very late at night (1,2,3 am) I'm pretty sure that you aren't as dedicated basketball fan as me.I also watch some European basketball so it's basically around 200 games a year.

And Durant has shown his off-ball abilities,he was bullied by Tony Allen,6'4 shooting guard. :lol

Common guys,continue to underrate/hate Melo and Amare.
Our success will taste even better.

Stage one: Denial



Lot more stages to come until you reach acceptance bro. Probably by the end of the 2013 season.

[28renyoy]

Carmelo has no argument for being better than

LeBron
Dwight
Wade
Paul
Dirk
Durant

NONE. He puts up far inferior numbers in both the playoffs and regular season.

One could argue he is better than Rose, Kobe, & D. Williams but it would be one hell of a weak argument because those teams get worse if you add him to them and replace the player mentioned.

He is in the Nash/Amare/Z-Bo tier. Honestly I have him below Nash as well.

[knickswin]

That's true in theory, but false in practice. Considering in the NBA you need to have multiple great players on the team to win (usually....) and almost all of those are as ball dominant as they are, a player like Durant is a tremendous asset to have. He's probably the player easiest to build around currently other than Howard.


Agreed on all the things you said about the Thunder's offense though.

I think the problem with relying on an off-the-ball scorer as your main scorer kind of manifested itself for the Thunder against the Grizzlies and Mavericks. He was not very useful in end-of-game scenarios and several fourth quarters when he got kicked off his spots and was unable to create space for himself or get closer looks at the basket when given the ball. I know Westbrook got criticized for being the one taking all the shots in the fourth quarter, but his skillset probably lends itself more to that than Durant's does.

[28renyoy]

I think the problem with relying on an off-the-ball scorer as your main scorer kind of manifested itself for the Thunder against the Grizzlies and Mavericks. He was not very useful in end-of-game scenarios and several fourth quarters when he got kicked off his spots and was unable to create space for himself or get closer looks at the basket when given the ball. I know Westbrook got criticized for being the one taking all the shots in the fourth quarter, but his skillset probably lends itself more to that than Durant's does.

Durant was the 2nd best "crunch time" scorer in the playoffs behind Dirk:facepalm

[RazorBaLade]

Durant was the 2nd best "crunch time" scorer in the playoffs behind Dirk:facepalm

all of his GW attempts were from 30ft out were they not? compare that to how many game winners dirk hit... no one else had gw opportunities that much but ts not just 1 and 2, durant was awful in clutch

[Sarcastic]

^ per 36 :lol



:roll: U mad he didn't use per 40?


Kobe had better numbers than Wade last season per 36. Kobe>Wade?

Wade's numbers got dragged down by Lebron.


LOL @ FG%. Anyone referencing it just looks like an idiot.

Right because when we watch games on TV, the announcers are always referencing total shooting, rather than shooting percentage.


LOL @ ignoring the fact Durant takes 5.3 3's per game which brings down his FG%

Get off your knees, stand up to Durant, and tell him that he is shooting too many 3's, and it's dragging down his eFG% & TS%.

[Blue&Orange]

Where was all the Melo discussion threads when he was in Denver? It seems that he only became a professional basketball player last year.

Yeah Melo is horrible, he is a Knicks player, just like Zach Randolph was horrible and now is awesome despite the fact that he isn't doing nothing he didn't do with the Knicks.


Knicks fans just have to :confusedshrug: and :lol at this threads and at the experts opinions, the same experts that bash the Knicks whenever possible, just look at their draft opinions this year after Fields and the Knicks made them look like retards last year.

[NuggetsFan]

Where was all the Melo discussion threads when he was in Denver? It seems that he only became a professional basketball player last year.

Yeah Melo is horrible, he is a Knicks player, just like Zach Randolph was horrible and now is awesome despite the fact that he isn't doing nothing he didn't do with the Knicks.


Knicks fans just have to :confusedshrug: and :lol at this threads and at the experts opinions, the same experts that bash the Knicks whenever possible, just look at their draft opinions this year after Fields and the Knicks made them look like retards last year.

Uhhh .. the majority of the people in the thread agreed Melo wasn't overrated. FourthTenor and Joyner have been saying these things about Melo for a pretty long time now.

Melo's always been called just a scorer and hated on sans his rookie year. Weather it was for the sucker punch, failing to get out of the first round, stop snitching thing, not playing defense up until like '07, '08 ish etc.

Was a nice try tho :oldlol:

[MeLO MvP 15]

I really think he comes after Wade, Dwight, Dirk, LeBron, and Paul (thats in no order) and is debatable right now with Durant, Kobe and Rose. That puts him around top 7-9.

[Scoooter]

Dirk, Nash, and Kobe are getting old. I definitely wouldn't take any of those three right now over Melo. I think now Dirk is getting a little overrated because of The Finals performance. But clearly I take Melo over those guys because of age difference.
Dirk's been great for a long time, and the Championship is finally getting him that recognition. Age is a factor, but I still think those listed are or where better basketball players. But obviously I'd rather have Melo over a few of them due to that age factor.


But I'm surprised you'd take Melo over Rose. Rose is a beast and an insane competitor. I'd probably take Rose
I don't like Rose. Super overrated. Undeserved MVP. I like my point guards to be playmakers first and foremost.


I'd take Rose, Lebron, Griffin, and Dwight over Melo. Not sure about Kevin Durant. CP3 and Amare both have injury histories.....so I'm not sure. Kobe, Dirk, and of course, Nash are past their physical primes, even if they are all still productive.
All true.

[The Ownage]

Carmelo has no argument for being better than

LeBron
Dwight
Wade
Paul
Dirk
Durant

NONE. He puts up far inferior numbers in both the playoffs and regular season.

One could argue he is better than Rose, Kobe, & D. Williams but it would be one hell of a weak argument because those teams get worse if you add him to them and replace the player mentioned.

He is in the Nash/Amare/Z-Bo tier. Honestly I have him below Nash as well.
This 'Melo debate makes you a dumbass but it's your opinion so I can respect that. However, you saying that Kobe is not within the elite tier and putting Z-Bo in the same class as Nash and Amare makes you retarded.


:facepalm

[bluechox2]

Where was all the Melo discussion threads when he was in Denver? It seems that he only became a professional basketball player last year.

Yeah Melo is horrible, he is a Knicks player, just like Zach Randolph was horrible and now is awesome despite the fact that he isn't doing nothing he didn't do with the Knicks.


Knicks fans just have to :confusedshrug: and :lol at this threads and at the experts opinions, the same experts that bash the Knicks whenever possible, just look at their draft opinions this year after Fields and the Knicks made them look like retards last year.
this
zach was bashed when with the knicks but post and pre knicks era was hailed stud.
now melo is going through the same and just about every knicks player

everyones got it out for the knicks

[G-train]

I wouldn't know how to rate Melo at this point of career, other than to say he is an very effective scorer. His next 2-3 seasons will be telling.

[NuggetsFan]

this
zach was bashed when with the knicks but post and pre knicks era was hailed stud.
now melo is going through the same and just about every knicks player

everyones got it out for the knicks

Can't stand this type of mentality, such a cop out.Melo's had the same knock on him for the past 4-5 years. Literally. The same thing's that he was questioned\hated on Denver, is the same things people question him on with NY.

[G-train]

this
zach was bashed when with the knicks but post and pre knicks era was hailed stud.
now melo is going through the same and just about every knicks player

everyones got it out for the knicks

Just false in regards to Z-bo. He played great at Portland, but he was so much trouble off the court they got rid of him. He was traded to NY for Francis(?) and played out of shape, no defence, looked distracted and got injured. He was no where near as effective as he was in Portland. Thus he was traded to CLips afer 80 games where he continued to fulfil his NY legacy. memphis trade was his wakeup call, plus he needed more dollars as well. Will be interesting to see how he returns post lockout with his fat contract.

[Unstoppabull]

How are those ESPN dudes still working there? How do they get hired?

I bet a lot of people on this board are easily more intelligent than those morons.

[Rowe]

If you say Melo is the #9 player in the league, you are already overrating him. I don't know about #25, but I've been saying what ESPN has for years. The guy is an elite scorer and that's it. Sure, he's better than Durant, but that isn't saying much. Durant is the same player minus an effective post game. They are two players that can impact the game in only one way: scoring the ball. Also, if we really want to get into it, what about his work ethic or attention to detail? All I've seen over the years is a more polished offensive game. No ballhandling skills, no team leadership, no defense, no passing skills. Sure, he's shown flashes...but he's just not consistent. He's the Amar'e of SF's. I can't even say that with a straight face because Amar'e has actually evolved over the years and added things to his game that Melo hasn't. I absolutely LOVE his offensive game but hate how he turns human if his shot isn't falling. He's the definition of overrated.

Really? Are you telling me Carmelo doesn't have ballhandling skills? I think a lot of people have been spoiled by the evolution of the 3 becoming a perimeter oriented position. Carmelo can handle the ball, but he isnt a guy who can set up plays like a Point Forward or create shots for others. That isnt necessarily what a SF is supposed to do, so I dont know how that is a knock on him. Hes still technically a Forward, and Forwards technically arent expected to create shots for others. Its always been a "scorers" position.

You're bashing him for being a passer when hes still Top 5 at his position in terms of Assists. Yes, hes a scorer. But he is a very good one at that.

His defense isnt as horrible as you make it out to be, & the argument of "leadership" can be questioned considering a guy named Dirk just carried a team to a NBA Championship and hes never been viewed as a "Leader". A "Leader" from the standpoint of being Team Captain and calling out his teammates on the floor. Carmelo is neither, but that doesnt mean much considering hes the guy his team trusts at the end of the game.

[Rowe]

This 'Melo debate makes you a dumbass but it's your opinion so I can respect that. However, you saying that Kobe is not within the elite tier and putting Z-Bo in the same class as Nash and Amare makes you retarded.


:facepalm

This.

Joyner's argument to support Durant has caused him to devote his time to bashing Carmelo to the point its just laughable. This is the same stuff that divided this site when it came to the Kobe vs LeBron debates.

[Rowe]

Just false in regards to Z-bo. He played great at Portland, but he was so much trouble off the court they got rid of him. He was traded to NY for Francis(?) and played out of shape, no defence, looked distracted and got injured. He was no where near as effective as he was in Portland. Thus he was traded to CLips afer 80 games where he continued to fulfil his NY legacy. memphis trade was his wakeup call, plus he needed more dollars as well. Will be interesting to see how he returns post lockout with his fat contract.

Just before the season he was implicated as an associate for a drug ring in Indianapolis. There was no wakeup call. The Zach Randolph you saw last season has been the same talented but maligned Zach Randolph we've seen since he came into the league. Hes a great talent, but you dont know what you're gonna get with him because he sours on his coaches, teammates, & management at some point.

[Rowe]

I wouldn't know how to rate Melo at this point of career, other than to say he is an very effective scorer. His next 2-3 seasons will be telling.
You cant say hes a winner? Been to the Playoffs every season. Has a killer instinct in the 4th quarter.

These next 5 seasons will represent if he can get himself to a NBA Finals at least once.

[Faberg]

Get with the program. The moment you put on a Knick uniform, your overrated. /joke

I guess they say Melo is overrated because of his lack of playoff success?
8 years in the league and only 1 time did he get out of the first round.

I wonder if they would've called KG overrated for all those first round playoff exits before 2004 when he got to the WCF and won MVP.

[bagelred]

http://blog.mysanantonio.com/spursnation/files/2011/07/Carmelo-Anthony-China-306x409.jpg

"Pandas!!!!!..........That's how I roll......."

[NuggetsFan]

You cant say hes a winner? Been to the Playoffs every season. Has a killer instinct in the 4th quarter.

These next 5 seasons will represent if he can get himself to a NBA Finals at least once.

Never understood why people say Melo's not a winner. Yeah he's came up short in the playoffs individually(had some ugly performances) but it's not like he was ever suppose to overcome the teams he's faced(SA, LA). Some act like he's Jamal Crawford.

Dude's been a winner his whole life. Went to Syracuse for a year and won a national title as a freshman, went to the NBA and has seen the playoffs every single year. Got over that first round hump in '08.

Melo's alot of things, not a winner isn't one of them tho.

[G-train]

You cant say hes a winner? Been to the Playoffs every season. Has a killer instinct in the 4th quarter.

These next 5 seasons will represent if he can get himself to a NBA Finals at least once.

I wouldn't label his NBA career as a winning one just yet.
I'd say he is a star player, but not a superstar. He is very marketable, so I'd say that makes some younger fans overrate him.

I dont think is he better than say Alex English, but some more effective team play and an ECF/Finals in a few years would help his legacy.

[G-train]

Have we seen prime Melo?

Is it better than prime Mashburn or prime Carter?

[knickswin]

Have we seen prime Melo?

Is it better than prime Mashburn or prime Carter?

I do not believe we have seen Carmelo at his best.

I think playing under D'Antoni in a real offensive system will help him become a better player. Mike is trying to break him of his sticky fingers habits and have him become a more willing passer and make quicker decisions taking his shots. I definitely saw a different side of Carmelo emerge with the Knicks, although he went back to his old habits a lot because he was comfortable with them and he didn't have much time to adjust.

I actually think Lebron James would also improve under a coach like D'Antoni. He would teach him not to pound the ball so much and make his moves using the first dribble.

[knicksman]

Melo is more unstoppable yet Durant puts up much better numbers vs tougher defenses & has better playoff numbers. Ya ok brah.

BTW Durant's 3rd year shits on Melo's 4th year statistically and Melo was taking more shots

let durant create his own shot and he will be exposed as less efficient than melo genius. but anyways you dont understand what im talking about coz youre just a kid. im sure youre also one of those who believe lebron is better than kobe

[knicksman]

Get with the program. The moment you put on a Knick uniform, your overrated. /joke

I guess they say Melo is overrated because of his lack of playoff success?
8 years in the league and only 1 time did he get out of the first round.

I wonder if they would've called KG overrated for all those first round playoff exits before 2004 when he got to the WCF and won MVP.

how about lebron if he was on the west? i think lebron is the definition of overrated

[knicksman]

Once again you are posting stuff that clearly indicates you don't really watch a lot of basketball.



A dominant 25+ppg scorer having the off-the-ball skill Durant has is kind of unheard of in the NBA. It creates a very different dynamic on offense to have a star player like that, because he is still very involved in and important to the offense when he is not getting the FGA. Very different from a guy like Anthony, who can score in bunches when he has the ball but doesn't really contribute without the ball.

The thing is, off the ball movement, creating space and etc -generally being involved in the offense without making assists or shooting the ball- don't show up on the statsheet. Thus leading to moronic statements like "Melo is more versatile than Durant (lol) and has the same efficiency." by people who haven't really seen both players play. (or simply don't really understand what they are watching)

wtf genius. off the ball scoring is easier than iso situations. and LOL at no one can do it. most big man do it, ray allen, reggie miller too.

melo is more of a kobe, jordan scorer level who can both iso and off the ball. george karl system is iso thats why hes doing alot of isos while hes playing off the ball in dantonis system right now.

[28renyoy]

wtf genius. off the ball scoring is easier than iso situations. and LOL at no one can do it. most big man do it, ray allen, reggie miller too.

melo is more of a kobe, jordan scorer level who can both iso and off the ball. george karl system is iso thats why hes doing alot of isos while hes playing off the ball in dantonis system right now.

hate to tell you, but durant is just as effective in iso situations as melo statistically.

[knicksman]

i guess lebron homers are just afraid of melo. well what can you do with an 11-4 record. and if youre good at analysis, melo has more impact to his team because his team were better during their entire career. its just that he was on the tough western conference. if anything, imo lebron is the overrated one. He's like AI who got overrated for playing in weak eastern conference, if lebron was in the west, he would not be even making the playoffs at some of those seasons.

[knicksman]

hate to tell you, but durant is just as effective in iso situations as melo statistically.

LOL like what? like those contested 3s he throws during the last seconds in the mavs/thunder series. LOL gtfo here idiot

[knightfall88]

I dont think he's overrated. He is just a major underachiever and just isn't motivated at times.

[DurandAlexander]

Maybe, but Carmelo pretty much shits on him H2H.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=anthoca01&p2=duranke01

Carmelo's awful defense somehow holds Durant to 42%. That's Iverson type chucker status right there.

'Melo does the same winning against LeBron H2H and Wade, including a game-winner right in LeBron's face (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_MY0qUt5CM).

Forget the goofball stats like usage rate and efficiency.

All he does is win.:facepalm

[Grinder]

Durant is better than Melo, don't really see where the argument otherwise comes from.

[Kevin_Gamble]

'Melo does the same winning against LeBron H2H and Wade, including a game-winner right in LeBron's face (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n_MY0qUt5CM).

Forget the goofball stats like usage rate and efficiency.

All he does is win.:facepalm

Paul Pierce holds Carmelo to 43.6% shooting while shooting 51% on him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=anthoca01&p2=piercpa01

Shawn Marion is 13-9 against Melo, shooting 52% to Melo's 48%.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=anthoca01&p2=mariosh01

All Melo does is lose.

[Shank]

If melo wants to play defense, he could..

Melo is the best scorer in the NBA, hes an underrated rebounder and passer. If he played defense consistently and was in better playing shape, I say he might be up there with LeBron

[DurandAlexander]

Paul Pierce holds Carmelo to 43.6% shooting while shooting 51% on him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=anthoca01&p2=piercpa01

Shawn Marion is 13-9 against Melo, shooting 52% to Melo's 48%.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=anthoca01&p2=mariosh01

All Melo does is lose.

I didn't know PP and Marion were in the discussion.

But the numbers don't lie.

That's what their H2H records are against Melo, so you have to give them their props and call it what it is.

And Pierce is 7-7 agiants Melo.

[DurandAlexander]

Maybe, but Carmelo pretty much shits on him H2H.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=anthoca01&p2=duranke01

Carmelo's awful defense somehow holds Durant to 42%. That's Iverson type chucker status right there.

This bball ref tool is new to me. So I was slow to pick up on it.

But that shows Melo is 10-1 in his career against the media's Golden Boy Kevin Durant.

Complete and utter domination.

And how is Melo overrated?

Because some goofball stats don't like him? Because his true shooting percentage is too low?

Ridiculous!

Here is the only stat that matters ... 10-1 :facepalm

[Kevin_Gamble]

This bball ref tool is new to me. So I was slow to pick up on it.

But that shows Melo is 10-1 in his career against the media's Golden Boy Kevin Durant.

Complete and utter domination.

And how is Melo overrated?

Because some goofball stats don't like him? Because his true shooting percentage is too low?

Ridiculous!

Here is the only stat that matters ... 10-1 :facepalm

Richard Jefferson H2H against Melo is 9-5.
RJ shot 53% against Melo while holding Melo to 42%.

RJ >>>>> Melo.

[DurandAlexander]

Richard Jefferson H2H against Melo is 9-5.
RJ shot 53% against Melo while holding Melo to 42%.

RJ >>>>> Melo.

I see your point.

But no one in their right mind would argue RJ is close to being a top SF.

It's like saying Horry has seven rings ... Horry >>>> Jordan.

But when top SFs, players on or close to the same level, compete H2H records come into play.

And Melo H2H dominates LBJ and KD.

[knickswin]

in the same article some moron said Scottie Pippen is the best SF of all time and was clearly the second best player of his generation just so you all know what type of minds we're dealing with here . . .

[RRR3]

If melo wants to play defense, he could..

Melo is the best scorer in the NBA, hes an underrated rebounder and passer. If he played defense consistently and was in better playing shape, I say he might be up there with LeBron


Durant, LBJ, Wade, Kobe are all at least as good as him at scoring IMO.

[Kevin_Gamble]

I see your point.

But no one in their right mind would argue RJ is close to being a top SF.

It's like saying Horry has seven rings ... Horry >>>> Jordan.

But when top SFs, players on or close to the same level, compete H2H records come into play.

And Melo H2H dominates LBJ and KD.

Horry and Jordan are not comparable since they didn't compete against each other. All of Horry's rings came when Jordan was either out of the league or basically retired. Plus Horry and Jordan never guarded each other.

RJ is going H2H against Melo. And when they do, RJ performs much more efficiently.

And PP is definitely on the same level as Melo. And he shits on Melo when they play each other.

Not that it matters, since H2H is a cherry-picked stat that people will bring out when it helps them, and sweep under the rug when it doesn't. The fact is, Melo has so far not shown that he's anything special. Basically a notch above Joe Johnson, if that.

Now that he's in the spotlight, and in a team that's trying to contend, Melo will get a chance to prove his doubters wrong. But as it is he is definitely not at the Durant/ Kobe/ Dirk/ LBJ level as a scorer.

[RRR3]

Horry and Jordan are not comparable since they didn't compete against each other. All of Horry's rings came when Jordan was either out of the league or basically retired. Plus Horry and Jordan never guarded each other.

RJ is going H2H against Melo. And when they do, RJ performs much more efficiently.

And PP is definitely on the same level as Melo. And he shits on Melo when they play each other.

Not that it matters, since H2H is a cherry-picked stat that people will bring out when it helps them, and sweep under the rug when it doesn't. The fact is, Melo has so far not shown that he's anything special. Basically a notch above Joe Johnson, if that.

Now that he's in the spotlight, and in a team that's trying to contend, Melo will get a chance to prove his doubters wrong. But as it is he is definitely not at the Durant/ Kobe/ Dirk/ LBJ level as a scorer.
:no:

[knicksman]

Paul Pierce holds Carmelo to 43.6% shooting while shooting 51% on him.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=anthoca01&p2=piercpa01

Shawn Marion is 13-9 against Melo, shooting 52% to Melo's 48%.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=anthoca01&p2=mariosh01

All Melo does is lose.

so now youre comparing marion whos not the 1st option on his team. damn idiots never change. always idiots

[knicksman]

Horry and Jordan are not comparable since they didn't compete against each other. All of Horry's rings came when Jordan was either out of the league or basically retired. Plus Horry and Jordan never guarded each other.

RJ is going H2H against Melo. And when they do, RJ performs much more efficiently.

And PP is definitely on the same level as Melo. And he shits on Melo when they play each other.

Not that it matters, since H2H is a cherry-picked stat that people will bring out when it helps them, and sweep under the rug when it doesn't. The fact is, Melo has so far not shown that he's anything special. Basically a notch above Joe Johnson, if that.

Now that he's in the spotlight, and in a team that's trying to contend, Melo will get a chance to prove his doubters wrong. But as it is he is definitely not at the Durant/ Kobe/ Dirk/ LBJ level as a scorer.

oh lebron dick riders are now saying winning doesnt matter. LOL if melo is a statpadder, he would be in the discussion of top 5 but at the same time he would be like tmac being a first round exit coz its hard for his teammates to improve playing alongside a statpadder.

[Akrazotile]

Lol

[BlakFrankWhite]

Lool @those fools who thought Melo was better than KD.


I believe now its a consensus...KD would stomp Melo