Revisiting the Ray allen and Kobe Bryant beef

[Theoo's Daddy]

There are so many great story lines for the NBA Finals, but one that is about to explode is the odd little beef between Ray Allen and Kobe Bryant. In the old days this would be one of those insider deals, the details only remembered by those with long institutional memories. But we have the internet now to do our remembering for us.

Let’s start at the end.

The blog Lex Nihli Novi has video from earlier this year when Lamar Odom made a beeline toward Allen and knocked him into the stands. At the time, it seemed like Odom had temporarily lost his mind, but maybe there was something else going on.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkmzK7zXqpQ

Flash back to 2004. The Lakers have just traded Shaquille O’Neal to Miami and are going to start over with Kobe as the undisputed alpha male of the locker room. Allen, still in his prime as Seattle’s top scorer, had a history of good games against Kobe. Naturally, the Seattle press asked Ray-Ray about Kobe’s new status as King of Los Angeles, and naturally, Allen had an interesting quote.


“He’s going to be very selfish,” Allen said of Bryant, who scored 15 of his team’s first 20 points and had 35 points in Tuesday’s loss. “And he feels like he needs to show this league and the people in this country that he is better without Shaq. He can win championships without Shaq. So offensively, he’s going to jump out and say, ‘I can average 30 points. I can still carry the load on this team.’


Hmmm, tell us more Ray.


“If Kobe doesn’t see he needs two and a half good players to be a legitimate playoff contender or win a championship in about a year or two he’ll be calling out to Jerry Buss that ‘We need some help in here,’ or ‘Trade me,’ ” Allen said. “And we’ll all be saying, ‘I told you so,’ when he says that.”

Kobe's response


The next day, Kobe shrugged off Allen's comments. At the time he was fighting off the words Phil Jackson had written in his soon-to-be-released book. Kobe did say he called Allen's cell phone and left a message, but Allen said he did not get the message because he had changed cell phone numbers.




read more here

http://www.nbamate.com/2008/06/05/the-definitive-kobe-bryant-vs-ray-allen-blog/

[MeLO MvP 15]

What are you talking about? kobe beef? that's something?

sorry, I couldn't resist

[winwin]

http://i55.tinypic.com/2dcbfd2.gif

[LA_Showtime]

Haha I remember that. Gotta respect Ray, he tells the truth. Not to mention he was dead on. :oldlol:

[HylianNightmare]

sounds rad

[LA_Showtime]

I love how he says 2.5 players, which is basically Gasol, Odom, and 1/2 of Bynum. Ray is a prophet. :bowdown:

[imdaman99]

kg, pierce, and rondo = 2.5 good players?

[StacksOnDeck]

Ray was a prophet because he said Kobe needs good players to win? Wow. The level of intelligence on this forum....

[theydidntnameme]

I remember that. The Lakers played Seattle in the preseason that year. And Kobe called Ray Allen before the game and said "I'm gonna bust ur ass". It was in the news, lol.

[Theoo's Daddy]

I remember that. The Lakers played Seattle in the preseason that year. And Kobe called Ray Allen before the game and said "I'm gonna bust ur ass". It was in the news, lol.


yeah, it was a preseason game though and ray had a bad back and sat out the game. :oldlol:



But 10 days later, on the eve of the Lakers' and Sonics' second preseason game, Riverside Press Enterprise reporter Brad Turner encountered Kobe in the Lakers locker room. Turner said Kobe was completely amiable when he walked in, looking over and saying, "What's up, BT?"
Then Turner, doing his job, asked Kobe about Allen. Kobe's demeanor changed immediately.
"Don't even put me and that dude in the same breath," Kobe barked.
The next night, at the San Diego Arena, Allen sat out of the game because of a sore lower back (more on that below), taking the air out of what was the anticipated matchup.
Still, during the game, when Kobe found himself in front of the Sonics' bench during a dead ball, he walked over to Allen and sneered, "I'll see you again." Bryant then said something that was indecipherable, ending it with "talking all that (trash)."
Jerome James stood up for Allen, telling Bryant to "go (expletive) yourself," which prompted Lamar Odom to say to James, "He started it though. You know he started it."

The bolded part is why many believe Odom had beelined Ray on this video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkmzK7zXqpQ

[PowerGlove]

Jesus!!:bowdown: :bowdown:

[Unstoppabull]

Funny thing is Ray totally was spot on!

[macpierce]

now wheres the video of kobe blocking ray allen at the rim :D

[Bring-Your-Js]

Kobe doesn’t see he needs two and a half good players to be a legitimate playoff contender or win a championship……In about a year or two he’ll be calling out to Jerry Buss 'We need some help in here' or 'Trade Me'

:oldlol:

[BlueandGold]

yeah, it was a preseason game though and ray had a bad back and sat out the game. :oldlol:




The bolded part is why many believe Odom had beelined Ray on that video
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WkmzK7zXqpQ
Thanks for sharing, the link alone has probably been your best contribution to ISH so far.

On another note: Odom is a champ.

[G-Funk]

Some reasons why Ray hates on Kobe...He beat him in the dunk contest in 97!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vNsNTdp9xk&feature=related

Then he drops 12 3pointers on Rays team

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-pniMuyZps

Then destroys him!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCrvCbh26K8

I think Ray has always been jealous of Kobe

[G-Funk]

Kobe's response






read more here

http://www.nbamate.com/2008/06/05/the-definitive-kobe-bryant-vs-ray-allen-blog/

According to a Lakers team source, Bryant telephoned Allen days ago and told him, "I'm gonna bust your ass," in anticipation of their 7:30 p.m. exhibition at the San Diego Sports Arena.

But 10 days later, on the eve of the Lakers' and Sonics' second preseason game, Riverside Press Enterprise reporter Brad Turner encountered Kobe in the Lakers locker room. Turner said Kobe was completely amiable when he walked in, looking over and saying, "What's up, BT?"
Then Turner, doing his job, asked Kobe about Allen. Kobe's demeanor changed immediately.
"Don't even put me and that dude in the same breath," Kobe barked.
The next night, at the San Diego Arena, Allen begged out of the game because of a sore lower back (more on that below), taking the air out of what was the anticipated matchup.
Still, during the game, when Kobe found himself in front of the Sonics' bench during a dead ball, he walked over to Allen and sneered, "I'll see you again." Bryant then said something that was indecipherable, ending it with "talking all that (trash)."
Jerome James stood up for Allen, telling Bryant to "go (expletive) yourself," which prompted Lamar Odom to say to James, "He started it though. You know he started it.

[L.Kizzle]

I love how he says 2.5 players, which is basically Gasol, Odom, and 1/2 of Bynum. Ray is a prophet. :bowdown:
They don't call him Jesus for nothin.

[DMAVS41]

Oh how right Ray Ray was. Hilarious.

[boozehound]

well, clearly ray was right. everything he said in those quotes came to pass. dude couldnt do it all by himself and asked for help/to be traded.

[Boston C's]

Some reasons why Ray hates on Kobe...He beat him in the dunk contest in 97!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_vNsNTdp9xk&feature=related

Then he drops 12 3pointers on Rays team

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s-pniMuyZps

Then destroys him!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCrvCbh26K8

I think Ray has always been jealous of Kobe


Ray wasnt on seattle when kobe hit 12 3's on them... on another note I found it hilarious that ray was right about that and even funnier that the same yr he took his garbage team to the playoffs while kobe sat home... they both had some pretty epic games back in the day against each other

[Doranku]

And at the end of the day, Kobe Bryant stays a legend and Ray Allen remains an afterthought. :cheers:

[PowerGlove]

And at the end of the day, Kobe Bryant stays a legend and Ray Allen remains an afterthought. :cheers:GTFO with that bs.

Ray isnt an afterthought.

[Boston C's]

And at the end of the day, Kobe Bryant stays a legend and Ray Allen remains an afterthought. :cheers:

Thats pretty ridiculous... they are both future hall of famers even though kobe has had a much superior career ray is hardly an afterthought

[Phong]

GTFO with that bs.

Ray isnt an afterthought.Maybe not right now because he just beat the 3-point record, but in 10 years he will be an afterthought. He will be mentioned for that record and nothing else.

[PowerGlove]

Maybe not right now because he just beat the 3-point record, but in 10 years he will be an afterthought. He will be mentioned for that record and nothing else.

Dude was a MAJOR contributor in one of the best draft classes ever. That's like saying that John Stockton is an afterthought and is just mentioned for his assist record.

[ProfessorMurder]

Ray wasnt on seattle when kobe hit 12 3's on them... on another note I found it hilarious that ray was right about that and even funnier that the same yr he took his garbage team to the playoffs while kobe sat home... they both had some pretty epic games back in the day against each other

Don't forget that Kobe was totally gifted the slam dunk contest that year. He clearly didn't deserve that.

[Phong]

That's like saying that John Stockton is an afterthought and is just mentioned for his assist record.You hit the nail on the head perfectly. Who talks about Stockton nowadays? Almost nobody.

Karl Malone will be mentioned 1000 times here before anybody would think about making a thread about Stockton.

[PowerGlove]

Surely you cant use the number of threads created about a certain player to gauge their popularity. All you ever see here is Shaq/Jordan/Kobe/Lebron/Wade/Melo/Durant/Bird/Magic/Wilt threads.

I cant even remember the last malone thread, is he an afterthought?

[Boston C's]

Don't forget that Kobe was totally gifted the slam dunk contest that year. He clearly didn't deserve that.

Yea not to mention that was arguably the weakest slam dunk contest ever... and Phong I cant believe that you are mentioning that Stockton is an afterthought... him and Allen are both all time greats

[Phong]

Surely you cant use the number of threads created about a certain player to gauge their popularity. All you ever see here is Shaq/Jordan/Kobe/Lebron/Wade/Melo/Durant/Bird/Magic/Wilt threads.

I cant even remember the last malone thread, is he an afterthought?Open your eyes.. there's one on the first page. :facepalm

[Boston C's]

Open your eyes.. there's one on the first page. :facepalm

So is this ray allen thread :roll:

[PowerGlove]

Open your eyes.. there's one on the first page. :facepalm
And there was a stockton thread yesterday.:oldlol:

If those even count.

[Phong]

So is this ray allen thread :roll:It would be if people were mentioning his career, achievement or else. But since it's Ray talking about Kobe then it has more to do with Kobe.

As for him being a MAJOR contributor of the 96 draft class, he pales in comparison to what Kobe, AI or Nash have done.

Lets see.. what will people mention about Ray in 10 years? Go ahead. That he was a great shooter and won a title as the 3rd best player on his team?

[Boston C's]

It would be if people were mentioning his career, achievement or else. But since it's Ray talking about Kobe then it has more to do with Kobe.

As for him being a MAJOR contributor of the 96 draft class, he pales in comparison to what Kobe, AI or Nash have done.

Lets see.. what will people mention about Ray in 10 years? Go ahead. That he was a great shooter and won a title as the 3rd best player on his team?

Dont forgot top 10 GOAT S.G too... and he was second in finals mvp voting in 08 so theres somethin for you... o and theres a ray allen hall of fame thread in like the 3rd or 4th page too just thought you should know... what will ppl know nash for? Being the ultimate passer but your not discrediting him are you? Rays shooting gets mentioned because hes so elite at it... but his all around game is vastly underrated but at least most ppl here would at least consider putting him in their top 10 shooting guards of all time list but according to you he will be an afterthought and now he will be mentioned as a shooter make up your mind will he be an afterthought or not lol... as for the draft class what ray has done only pales in comparison to Kobe... A.I is out of the league while ray is still playing at a high level... not to say A.I doesnt have a better career then ray but what ray has done certainly doesnt "pale" in comparison to nash or A.I

[PowerGlove]

Stockton pales in comparison to what Hakeem/Jordan/Barkley did too and people were just talking about him yesterday.

Not an afterthought at all.

[knicksman]

you cant blame kobe for wanting to be the man. but at the same time, shaq career did not reach its full potential of being the goat because of kobe. imo if kobe wanted to be the man, he should be the one who left and prove himself if he can win on a small market team.

[Boston C's]

you cant blame kobe for wanting to be the man. but at the same time, shaq career did not reach its full potential of being the goat because of kobe. imo if kobe wanted to be the man, he should be the one who left and prove himself if he can win on a small market team.

Cant blame him at all... he was being stuck under shaqs giant shadow even though he was absolutely ballin during those yrs... minus the 04 piston finals which was an absolute horrendous showing by kobe

[G-Funk]

Ray wasnt on seattle when kobe hit 12 3's on them... on another note I found it hilarious that ray was right about that and even funnier that the same yr he took his garbage team to the playoffs while kobe sat home... they both had some pretty epic games back in the day against each other

Hilarious but nothing beats last years Finals! :oldlol: I guess Kobe got the last laugh

[305Baller]

I'm seriously starting to crave some kobe beef.

[LA_Showtime]

you cant blame kobe for wanting to be the man. but at the same time, shaq career did not reach its full potential of being the goat because of kobe. imo if kobe wanted to be the man, he should be the one who left and prove himself if he can win on a small market team.

Um, Shaq didn't reach his potential because of his work ethic, not because Bryant took away some of the glory or whatever you want to call it.

[catch24]

Um, Shaq didn't reach his potential because of his work ethic, not because Bryant took away some of the glory or whatever you want to call it.

While I agree, you dont think Kobe had any doing with Shaq's chances to get another Finals MVP and title in 2004? Kobe was historically awful that series.

[Boston C's]

Hilarious but nothing beats last years Finals! :oldlol: I guess Kobe got the last laugh

Damn you kobe fans are so sensitive :lol

[Phong]

Dont forgot top 10 GOAT S.G too... and he was second in finals mvp voting in 08 so theres somethin for you... o and theres a ray allen hall of fame thread in like the 3rd or 4th page too just thought you should know... what will ppl know nash for? Being the ultimate passer but your not discrediting him are you? Rays shooting gets mentioned because hes so elite at it... but his all around game is vastly underrated but at least most ppl here would at least consider putting him in their top 10 shooting guards of all time list but according to you he will be an afterthought and now he will be mentioned as a shooter make up your mind will he be an afterthought or not lol... as for the draft class what ray has done only pales in comparison to Kobe... A.I is out of the league while ray is still playing at a high level... not to say A.I doesnt have a better career then ray but what ray has done certainly doesnt "pale" in comparison to nash or A.IBeing top 10 in SG is a sign that he won't be an afterthought? Jerry West for all he achieved is mostly remembered now for being The Logo. Nobody mentions him in any conversation except once every February 30th or when he comments on the current Lakers success or struggle.

AI despite winning MVP, scoring titles, changing the image of the league has now become the butt of the joke for a lot of people. Nash with 2 MVPs will probably slowly fade away once he retires. So you want to think Ray Allen will be remembered and brought up in countless conversations? Please.

People will always bring out MJ, KAJ, Wilt, Magic, Bird and co because of what they achieved. You think Ray Allen won't be an afterthought? No legendary series to spend countless hours to talk about, no insane stats, no individual dominance, nothing memorable except that 3 point record.


Stockton pales in comparison to what Hakeem/Jordan/Barkley did too and people were just talking about him yesterday.

Not an afterthought at all.Went 5 pages back and seen no thread dedicated to him. Link?

And I never said nobody will ever mention Stockton. I said Malone might be mentioned 1000 times when Stockton maybe once. Don't pretend it's not the truth. Malone and Barkley pop up regularly here, Stockton not so much. Yeah, he's an afterthought.

[G-Funk]

Damn you kobe fans are so sensitive :lol
super!

[Boston C's]

super!

haha sry and yes I do concede that he did get the last laugh

[PowerGlove]

I cant find it either it was thread where people were ranking Kidd/Stockton/Payton/Nash

[LA_Showtime]

While I agree, you dont think Kobe had any doing with Shaq's chances to get another Finals MVP and title in 2004? Kobe was historically awful that series.

That basically means I'm going to assume the Lakers would have won had Kobe played a lesser role, which I'm not convinced would have happened.

I guess we can blame Nick Anderson and Penny for Shaq's titleless run in Orlando too.

[Boston C's]

Being top 10 in SG is a sign that he won't be an afterthought? Jerry West for all he achieved is mostly remembered now for being The Logo. Nobody mentions him in any conversation except once every February 30th or when he comments on the current Lakers success or struggle.

AI despite winning MVP, scoring titles, changing the image of the league has now become the butt of the joke for a lot of people. Nash with 2 MVPs will probably slowly fade away once he retires. So you want to think Ray Allen will be remembered and brought up in countless conversations? Please.

People will always bring out MJ, KAJ, Wilt, Magic, Bird and co because of what they achieved. You think Ray Allen won't be an afterthought?

Went 5 pages back and seen no thread dedicated to him. Link?

And I never said nobody will ever mention Stockton. I said Malone might be mentioned 1000 times when Stockton maybe once. Don't pretend it's not the truth. Malone and Barkley pop up regularly here, Stockton not so much. Yeah, he's an afterthought.

So what your saying is that the only players ppl will remember are basically the top 10 GOAT players... that makes absolutely no sense... its laughable that A.I, West, Nash and Ray will be afterthoughts because they wont be... they wont be as talked about as much as those players but they will most certainly not be an afterthought

[catch24]

That basically means I'm going to assume the Lakers would have won had Kobe played a lesser role, which I'm not convinced would have happened.

I guess we can blame Nick Anderson and Penny for Shaq's titleless run in Orlando too.

Any role from their previous Finals appearances. Gotta think Kobe shooting over 25+ shots (two games that series) and shooting 30% has a little bit of relevance. Forget his assist to turnover ratio all 5 games that series. Woeful stuff.

Depending on the games you're talking about, I don't see why not? Shaq definitely held his own against Hakeem.

[tpols]

So what your saying is that the only players ppl will remember are basically the top 10 GOAT players... that makes absolutely no sense... its laughable that A.I, West, Nash and Ray will be afterthoughts because they wont be... they wont be as talked about as much as those players but they will most certainly not be an afterthought
What Phong said was all in comparison to Kobe.. and compared to the attention Kobe gets and will be getting over the years, Ray will be no more than an after thought.. People around here usually bring up the legendary players in comparisons with one another and up and coming players.

You hardly even here about guys like Patrick Ewing and David Robinson on this site anymore.. who the hell is going to be talking about Ray Allen as a player in ten years? The only thing that will be brought up is the niche he filled in being the best 3 pt shooter.

[LA_Showtime]

Any role from their previous Finals appearances. Gotta think Kobe shooting over 25+ shots (two games that series) and shooting 30% has a little bit of relevance. Forget his assist to turnover ratio all 5 games that series. Woeful stuff.

Depending on the games you're talking about, I don't see why not? Shaq definitely held his own against Hakeem.

It just seems dumb to blame other players for their shortcomings. Obviously Kobe deserves more of the blame than Shaq, but to say that Kobe's the reason Shaq didn't win is just stupid.

[Phong]

So what your saying is that the only players ppl will remember are basically the top 10 GOAT players... that makes absolutely no sense... its laughable that A.I, West, Nash and Ray will be afterthoughts because they wont be... they wont be as talked about as much as those players but they will most certainly not be an afterthoughtWhen you're not being talked as much as others because there are/were many players much better/dominant/popular/etc than you, then yeah you're an afterthought. In every discussion, people will mention you, if at all, AFTER many others.

He doesn't have the accolades, the highlights, the stats, any prime year where he was close to the top of the league, nothing that makes him stand out except that 3-point record.

[Boston C's]

What Phong said was all in comparison to Kobe.. and compared to the attention Kobe gets and will be getting over the years, Ray will be no more than an after thought.. People around here usually bring up the legendary players in comparisons with one another and up and coming players.

You hardly even here about guys like Patrick Ewing and David Robinson on this site anymore.. who the hell is going to be talking about Ray Allen as a player in ten years? The only thing that will be brought up is the niche he filled in being the best 3 pt shooter.

From the perspective on this site I guess I can understand that... but in terms of the game of basketball his place in history will hardly be an afterthought... and now that you bring up both Ewing and Robinson its actually pretty sad that 2 legendary players such as those two dont really get talked about

[catch24]

It just seems dumb to blame other players for their shortcomings. Obviously Kobe deserves more of the blame than Shaq, but to say that Kobe's the reason Shaq didn't win is just stupid.

Don't see how it's dumb to place the majority of blame on Kobe (read Phil Jacksons comments in that book he wrote), who was the worst all-star caliber player that series. Was he the sole reason? Of course not, but he did hamper Shaq and the Lakers chances that year, no doubt about it.

[LA_Showtime]

How is it dumb to place the majority of blame on Kobe (read Phil Jacksons comments in that book he wrote), who was the worst all-star caliber player that series? Was he the sole reason? Of course not, but he did hamper Shaq's and the Lakers chances that year, no doubt about it.

We've sort of changed the dynamic of the conservation. I think it's stupid to blame Kobe for Shaq supposedly not living up to expectations and underachieving. I don't think it's stupid to partially blame Kobe for the Lakers collapse, though. Then again, you could also blame Payton for mentally checking out, the entire team for not closing out the Wolves and allowing Malone to get injured, and Shaq for not being more of a locker room presence.

[catch24]

We've sort of changed the dynamic of the conservation. I think it's stupid to blame Kobe for Shaq supposedly not living up to expectations and underachieving. I don't think it's stupid to partially blame Kobe for the Lakers collapse, though. Then again, you could also blame Payton for mentally checking out, the entire team for not closing out the Wolves and allowing Malone to get injured, and Shaq for not being more of a locker room presence.

Yeah, Shaq not being in shape or havng a better work ethic has NOTHING to do with Kobe. I blame Kobe, and vice versa, several games those years LA didn't go all the way or win when they got there (finals). That's about it.

[LA_Showtime]

Yeah, Shaq not being in shape or havng a better work ethic has NOTHING to do with Kobe. I blame Kobe, and vice versa, several games those years LA didn't go all the way or win when they got there (finals). That's about it.

What bothers me most about the whole Shaq/Kobe drama is that neither player learned anything from it. They're both still egotistical and immature and it just pisses me off that they haven't learned to just put their egos aside and play basketball.

[Lucifer]

Kobe-5
Ray - 1
Lebron- 0

[purplch0de]

If you have beef with someone you deal with him/her, you don't go flapping your mouth on twitter/facebook or any media outlet. Ray Allen is a bitch, always has been one. But he's a def. a good player and a hall of famer.

[knicksman]

Um, Shaq didn't reach his potential because of his work ethic, not because Bryant took away some of the glory or whatever you want to call it.

even with his work ethic, he still won 4 rings. if only kobe was willing to be a 2nd option, they would have won few more rings.

[brandonislegend]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vCrvCbh26K8

kobe bryant is ray allens big brother

[eldanielfire]

Haha I remember that. Gotta respect Ray, he tells the truth. Not to mention he was dead on. :oldlol:

It's bloody scary how dead on he was about it all. It's like he saw the future.

[okayabc123]

At the end of the day, Ray's career pales in comparison against Kobe. So whatever Ray has to say, whether it was the truth or whether it was hate, it doesn't even matter to Kobe.

I don't even think Kobe should be concern with Ray Allen, a great player, no doubt, but Ray isn't even on the same level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc9SNViVXL0 Poor Ray Allen :)

[Unstoppabull]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc9SNViVXL0 Poor Ray Allen :)

That was the icing on the cake!

[Doranku]

Stockton pales in comparison to what Hakeem/Jordan/Barkley did too and people were just talking about him yesterday.

Not an afterthought at all.

Oh come on, who's going to be talking about Ray Allen 15 years down the line? He's a solid player who holds the 3 point record.

Reggie Miller was a solid player who formerly held the 3-point record before Ray. He didn't even retire 15 years ago, yet how many people were frequently talking about him before Ray broke his record?

Afterthought.

[boozehound]

At the end of the day, Ray's career pales in comparison against Kobe. So whatever Ray has to say, whether it was the truth or whether it was hate, it doesn't even matter to Kobe.

I don't even think Kobe should be concern with Ray Allen, a great player, no doubt, but Ray isn't even on the same level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc9SNViVXL0 Poor Ray Allen :)
well, you can say that, but he clearly got his feelings caught by it. So....

[Theoo's Daddy]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wXAKv8FA4kM&feature=fvsr

was that kobe supposed to be guarding him. i don't think people can forget this though..

:confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[Crown&Coke]

RayRay shot off at the mouth on a topic someone probably asked him 200x about that off season. He finally spit some truth after time and time again saying the status quo and being PC.

He should have kept his mouth shut, but its not like he said anything that a lot of NBA players believed at the time. And like many pointed out, pretty scary how spot on he was. Ray is a smart dude, he had a moment of speaking the truth that caused a slight beef.

Before the 2010 finals, I think they made up. Kobe gave him props for breaking the 3 pt record.

[PowerGlove]

Oh come on, who's going to be talking about Ray Allen 15 years down the line? He's a solid player who holds the 3 point record.

Reggie Miller was a solid player who formerly held the 3-point record before Ray. He didn't even retire 15 years ago, yet how many people were frequently talking about him before Ray broke his record?

Afterthought.

Ray Allen shouldnt be compared to Reggie Miller at all. Its a disservice to Ray.

[gasolina]

Lol at Kobe fans getting their panties wet over "being talked about it 10 years"

[Theoo's Daddy]

Lol at Kobe fans getting their panties wet over "being talked about it 10 years"

regardless, i don't think will ever forget this performance


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrzsRRlwaUQ


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Phong]

regardless, i don't think will ever forget this performance


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qrzsRRlwaUQ


:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:And this one too: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4PCl4eRsi7M :bowdown:

[creepingdeath]

Damn, spot on, Ray. :applause:

[Boston C's]

Damn kobe stans are really sensitive

[Soothing Layup]

Damn kobe stans are really sensitive

This.

Ray allen will never be an afterthought to me, favorite player ever. He actually grew up and became a man, didn't rape a girl. Unlike kobe.... There is more to basketball then just what you do on the court....

[Phong]

Damn kobe stans are really sensitiveSays the guy who got his panties in a bunch because he couldn't accept Ray's place in basketball history. :rolleyes:

[Boston C's]

Says the guy who got his panties in a bunch because he couldn't accept Ray's place in basketball history. :rolleyes:

I do accept his place as the 3 point king and arguably greatest shooter all time... top 10 SG in history but apparently to you ray along with david robinson, allen iverson, steve nash, etc will all be "afterthoughts" which couldnt be further from the truth

[boozehound]

Says the guy who got his panties in a bunch because he couldn't accept Ray's place in basketball history. :rolleyes:
not a ray fan by any stretch, but you are way off on that. an afterthought? just like stockton is an afterthought, huh.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Who got the last laugh now?

In the end, Kobe's just better than Ray.

[Phong]

Another day and the argument goes full circle back to its beginning. :facepalm

I guess we must have a different definition of what an afterthought is.

[DMAVS41]

Who got the last laugh now?

In the end, Kobe's just better than Ray.

I don't think that was ever in dispute. And Ray certainly wasn't saying that with his quotes.

He was just sick of hearing about Kobe and made a statement basically saying that Kobe has been so spoiled with great teams and coaches around him these last 8 years that he really doesn't understand how hard it is to win.

And Ray was right. 2.5 years later and Kobe was throwing teammates and the organization under the bus and asking for a trade.

Everything Ray said happened. I think Ray would get the last laugh in this deal.

[catch24]

Kobe went on National TV (or radio) and demanded to be traded. I'd say Ray was close :oldlol:

[thejumpa]

I don't think that was ever in dispute. And Ray certainly wasn't saying that with his quotes.

He was just sick of hearing about Kobe and made a statement basically saying that Kobe has been so spoiled with great teams and coaches around him these last 8 years that he really doesn't understand how hard it is to win.

And Ray was right. 2.5 years later and Kobe was throwing teammates and the organization under the bus and asking for a trade.

Everything Ray said happened. I think Ray would get the last laugh in this deal.

This.

If you watched basketball and followed this little "beef", then you should know that Ray won. What he predicted happened. Simple as that. It has nothing to do with who is the better player. Both of them are HOF'ers. It's more about personality and character. That made it great to watch because they would really go at it on the court.

[DJ Leon Smith]

I guess we must have a different definition of what an afterthought is.

You have the wrong definition of afterthought. You even said before "the only time Ray will be brought up is when discussing the three-point record" which is by definition not an afterthought. An afterthought in that scenario is a forgettable role player who is 10th/11th/12th on the all-time three-point list and isn't in the discussion of greatest shooters in NBA history.

BTW it's hilarious to see Laker/Kobe fans get so defensive of a quote that's almost a decade old and proved to be 100 percent accurate. I don't understand why they can't at least say "damn Ray nailed Kobe on that one, at least he finally put it all together a few years later". Nope, blind loyalty.

[LA_Showtime]

You have the wrong definition of afterthought. You even said before "the only time Ray will be brought up is when discussing the three-point record" which is by definition not an afterthought. An afterthought in that scenario is a forgettable role player who is 10th/11th/12th on the all-time three-point list and isn't in the discussion of greatest shooters in NBA history.

BTW it's hilarious to see Laker/Kobe fans get so defensive of a quote that's almost a decade old and proved to be 100 percent accurate. I don't understand why they can't at least say "damn Ray nailed Kobe on that one, at least he finally put it all together a few years later". Nope, blind loyalty.

I pretty much said that shit verbatim.

[DJ Leon Smith]

I pretty much said that shit verbatim.

True, I should have said "most".

[Boston C's]

You have the wrong definition of afterthought. You even said before "the only time Ray will be brought up is when discussing the three-point record" which is by definition not an afterthought. An afterthought in that scenario is a forgettable role player who is 10th/11th/12th on the all-time three-point list and isn't in the discussion of greatest shooters in NBA history.

BTW it's hilarious to see Laker/Kobe fans get so defensive of a quote that's almost a decade old and proved to be 100 percent accurate. I don't understand why they can't at least say "damn Ray nailed Kobe on that one, at least he finally put it all together a few years later". Nope, blind loyalty.

this :lol ... theres no question that kobe is better then ray peak career etc... its just that ray got the better of him here it has nothin to do with basketball... ray said something that came to be true thats all

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Ray was a prophet because he said Kobe needs good players to win? Wow. The level of intelligence on this forum....

:oldlol:

[Jacks3]

Ray predicated that Kobe would be frustrated if he had shitty teammates?

WOW. AMAZING! :eek: :eek: :eek:

LOL

Kobe>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>Ray


:pimp:

[Jacks3]

At the end of the day, Ray's career pales in comparison against Kobe. So whatever Ray has to say, whether it was the truth or whether it was hate, it doesn't even matter to Kobe.

I don't even think Kobe should be concern with Ray Allen, a great player, no doubt, but Ray isn't even on the same level.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tc9SNViVXL0 Poor Ray Allen :)
This.

[Bring-Your-Js]

You have the wrong definition of afterthought. You even said before "the only time Ray will be brought up is when discussing the three-point record" which is by definition not an afterthought. An afterthought in that scenario is a forgettable role player who is 10th/11th/12th on the all-time three-point list and isn't in the discussion of greatest shooters in NBA history.

BTW it's hilarious to see Laker/Kobe fans get so defensive of a quote that's almost a decade old and proved to be 100 percent accurate. I don't understand why they can't at least say "damn Ray nailed Kobe on that one, at least he finally put it all together a few years later". Nope, blind loyalty.

:oldlol:

Half these dudes didn't even think O'Neal's number should be retired. Talk about Dick Riding.

[Killbot]

Who got the last laugh now?

In the end, Kobe's just better than Ray.

Because his career bolstered with Shaq and other great players.

[Jacks3]

Originally Posted by StacksOnDeck
Ray was a prophet because he said Kobe needs good players to win? Wow. The level of intelligence on this forum....

:oldlol:

[gasolina]

Wow if Ray Allen would be an afterthought 10 years from now, then 95% of current NBA players are all Luke Walton-ish scrubs.

*Maybe Ray's an afterthought only to kobe ******gers, but to the regular knowledgeable fan, I don't think so.

10 years from now, who knows what team I'd be rooting for. Not the case for kobe ******gers, they'd probably keep hating on whoever new Laker star they get.

Newfound respect on them ******gers from me. They won't jump ship, not if Kobe gets imprisoned, or traded to a bad team, not even if Kobe retires. Kobe ******gerism stands the test of time.

[Phong]

You have the wrong definition of afterthought. You even said before "the only time Ray will be brought up is when discussing the three-point record" which is by definition not an afterthought. An afterthought in that scenario is a forgettable role player who is 10th/11th/12th on the all-time three-point list and isn't in the discussion of greatest shooters in NBA history.I stand with what I said. Three point shooting is just a niche category that will be discussed once in a while, if ever. To me the 3 point record is in itself an afterthought in the grand scheme of the game. Most people would rather discuss who were the greatest overall players than some guy who will be remembered, fairly or not, as a great one-dimensional shooter who ran all day behind screens, had a sweet looking jumper and carried the name of Jesus in a movie.

Look at Reggie Miller, who previously owned that record. Despite retiring only 6 years ago, having a gig on TV and having an ESPN documentary entirely dedicated to him and his uber clutchness, most people barely ever discuss his career and achievements. Same goes for many players who were much better than Ray Allen as well.

I'm not discussing Ray as a player, but like an other guy said first here, in 10 years most people won't care about Ray Allen. Most people will talk about the new generation of players versus the legends and superstars of the past.



Wow if Ray Allen would be an afterthought 10 years from now, then 95% of current NBA players are all Luke Walton-ish scrubs.Exactly.

[DJ Leon Smith]

Look at Reggie Miller, who previously owned that record. Despite retiring only 6 years ago, having a gig on TV and having an ESPN documentary entirely dedicated to him and his uber clutchness, most people barely ever discuss his career and achievements. Same goes for many players who were much better than Ray Allen as well.

The fact that you believe people don't discuss players like Reggie Miller and Jerry West anymore reflects more on the people you talk to rather than the careers and achievements of said players.

[Phong]

The fact that you believe people don't discuss players like Reggie Miller and Jerry West anymore reflects more on the people you talk to rather than the careers and achievements of said players.If you want to mention basketball historians and hardcore basketball fans, sure they will remember players and talk about them in their small circle; but they are in the minority.

Most people, casual fans and non-fans, only remember or learn about players who have achieved a great deal whether it's championships, personal accolades, crazy highlights, insane stats, legendary games; players who have a polarizing personality or those who were part of some scandals. Ray falls short in every of those aspects. He hasn't really achieved anything too great or too infamous to make people talk for decades to come.

[AMISTILLILL]

If you have beef with someone you deal with him/her, you don't go flapping your mouth on twitter/facebook or any media outlet. Ray Allen is a bitch, always has been one. But he's a def. a good player and a hall of famer.

Ray Allen is a bitch and always has been? Did you just start watching NBA basketball last year or something?

[DJ Leon Smith]

If you want to mention basketball historians and hardcore basketball fans, sure they will remember players and talk about them in their small circle; but they are in the minority.

Most people, casual fans and non-fans, only remember or learn about players who have achieved a great deal whether it's championships, personal accolades, crazy highlights, insane stats, legendary games; players who have a polarizing personality or those who were part of some scandals. Ray falls short in every of those aspects. He hasn't really achieved anything too great or too infamous to make people talk for decades to come.

Ray Allen has championships, personal accolades and insane stats, these are facts. You could argue he has crazy highlights and legendary games. And are you calling yourself a casual basketball fan? That's not a diss BTW, it's just you'd think taking the time to discuss basketball on a basketball forum would make you more than a casual fan. But if you are, it makes your stance on Ray Allen's place in history easier to understand though.

[Phong]

Ray Allen has championships, personal accolades and insane stats, these are facts. You could argue he has crazy highlights and legendary games. And are you calling yourself a casual basketball fan? That's not a diss BTW, it's just you'd think taking the time to discuss basketball on a basketball forum would make you more than a casual fan. But if you are, it makes your stance on Ray Allen's place in history easier to understand though.I'm not a casual fan. I'm just a realist. Maybe you're looking at Ray's career through the eyes of a fan. The beginning of your post would suggest that.

I'll just say this: look at all the players who are ahead of Ray in any "Top Players of All-Time" list, look at their achievements and tell me if a lot of people are still frequently discussing all those players years after their retirement. Probably not for 80% of them.

Like you said, we're on a basketball forum and you would expect people to have a great appreciation of basketball history but all you see here is Kobe, LeBron, Wade and MJ. Then you have discussion about current players and the likes of Duncan, Shaq, Magic, Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Malone and Barkley. That's maybe 20-30 players who are constantly being talked about out of 55 years of NBA history. Ray Allen won't make the cut. I find it highly optimistic of you to believe otherwise; even more in 10 years.

[Theoo's Daddy]

I'm not a casual fan. I'm just a realist. Maybe you're looking at Ray's career through the eyes of a fan. The beginning of your post would suggest that.

I'll just say this: look at all the players who are ahead of Ray in any "Top Players of All-Time" list, look at their achievements and tell me if a lot of people are still frequently discussing all those players years after their retirement. Probably not for 80% of them.

Like you said, we're on a basketball forum and you would expect people to have a great appreciation of basketball history but all you see here is Kobe, LeBron, Wade and MJ. Then you have discussion about current players and the likes of Duncan, Shaq, Magic, Bird, Russell, Wilt, Kareem, Hakeem, Malone and Barkley. That's maybe 20-30 players who are constantly being talked about out of 55 years of NBA history. Ray Allen won't make the cut. I find it highly optimistic of you to believe otherwise; even more in 10 years.

dude, ray allen rules the 3 point line, whenever they start talking about the best 3 point shooters.. his name has to pop up because he rules that land. He will never be forgotten. get over it.

[ihatetimthomas]

In comparison to Kobe, you have to be blind if you think he wouldn't be an afterthought. True fans of bball will remember Ray to be one of the best if not the best shooters to ever play. But he is no where near the level of achievement and overall skill to Kobe Bryant. He will not be remembered like Kobe will be. Ray is def a t couple tiers below Kobe.

He is not going to be forgotten, but Kobe will def. be remembered for much longer.

[Boston C's]

In comparison to Kobe, you have to be blind if you think he wouldn't be an afterthought. True fans of bball will remember Ray to be one of the best if not the best shooters to ever play. But he is no where near the level of achievement and overall skill to Kobe Bryant. He will not be remembered like Kobe will be. Ray is def a t couple tiers below Kobe.

He is not going to be forgotten, but Kobe will def. be remembered for much longer.

There is no denyin that... its just that some ppl if you look back have been saying that not only ray but players like stockton, robinson, nash, A.I will be afterthoughts too which I dont think so at all

[DJ Leon Smith]

I'm not a casual fan. I'm just a realist. Maybe you're looking at Ray's career through the eyes of a fan. The beginning of your post would suggest that.

I'm looking through the eyes of a basketball fan. If you think most basketball fans won't remember Ray Allen in 10 years, I don't know what else to say to you.


He is not going to be forgotten

That's all I'm saying. To say guys like Reggie Miller, Jerry West and Ray Allen are all "afterthoughts" is ridiculous.

[G-train]

Ray will never be forgotten for 2 reasons:

1. All time 3 point leader
2. I foresee a long career in media

Kobe will be remembered longer, for good and bad reasons. He wont be revered like Magic, Bird, Jordan due to his personality and off court troubles. Kobe lovers will be angry about that statement but its true.

[ihatetimthomas]

There is no denyin that... its just that some ppl if you look back have been saying that not only ray but players like stockton, robinson, nash, A.I will be afterthoughts too which I dont think so at all

They will be afterthoughts compared to the elites of their eras who had major individual and team success like Kobe, Shaq, MJ, etc. Being an afterthought does not mean being forgotten. It means that they will be thought of after the elite. Kind of like guys like Dominique Wilkins. We all remember him and who he was, but he is not remembered like MJ is.

[G-train]

There is no denyin that... its just that some ppl if you look back have been saying that not only ray but players like stockton, robinson, nash, A.I will be afterthoughts too which I dont think so at all

Robinson as in David Robinson?

I'd say he will be remembered longer than Kobe. He was a better player.

If you are starting a franchise and are choosing between the 2 its a no-brainer.

[ihatetimthomas]

Robinson as in David Robinson?

I'd say he will be remembered longer than Kobe. He was a better player.

You are kidding right? Kobe will be remembered long after DRob for his titles and on individual success. DRob is not even the best center of his era. You could say Kobe is the best shooting guard of his era.

[Phong]

Being an afterthought does not mean being forgotten. It means that they will be thought of after the elite.Thank god. :applause:

[G-train]

You are kidding right? Kobe will be remembered long after DRob for his titles and on individual success. DRob is not even the best center of his era. You could say Kobe is the best shooting guard of his era.

You are a joke.

Really you are a pretender.

What a pathetic post.

Oh no, D-Rob isnt the greatest center of his era, with only Shaq better than him and Hakeem arguably better. 2 of the greatest players ever.

Kobe, yeah greatest SG of his era...... better than, um, um, Ray Allen and Vince Carter.

[ihatetimthomas]

You are a joke.

Really you are a pretender.

What a pathetic post.

Oh no, D-Rob isnt the greatest center of his era, with only Shaq better than him and Hakeem arguably better. 2 of the greatest players ever.

Kobe, yeah greatest SG of his era...... better than, um, um, Ray Allen and Vince Carter.

Kobe has had better team success and better individual success.

Tell me, what exactly makes Robinson better than Kobe?

Just about every analyst and NBA player will rank Kobe ahead of Robinson. So I guess the thoughts of a pathetic poster like you trumps theirs?

[AlphaWolf24]

You are a joke.

Really you are a pretender.

What a pathetic post.

Oh no, D-Rob isnt the greatest center of his era, with only Shaq better than him and Hakeem arguably better. 2 of the greatest players ever.

Kobe, yeah greatest SG of his era...... better than, um, um, Ray Allen and Vince Carter.



Ray, Carter , Wade>Ritchmond , Drexler , Hornacek

[BlackJoker23]

Ray, Carter , Wade>Ritchmond , Drexler , Hornacek
next

[okayabc123]

Uh Kobe won't be remembered more than David Robinson? Excuse me dumba$$, when is the last time the Admiral got a mention in this forum besides this current post. Kobe's brand, effect on the game, the NBA, the global recognition, dude is going to be remembered hell of a long time. To say he won't be in the same breath as Bird and Magic, well that's subjective. I would say globally he will be remembered way more than Bird and Magic. Kobe's highlights are all plastered over youtube, his game is recognized by players of older generation, and this generation. Like it or not, as a name/brand, Kobe could be up to par with Jordan when it is all say and done.

You can hate him because he is cocky, over confidence SOB, but you can't hate his game, his global presence. There is a reason why, every summer he is always the FIRST and the MOST sought after player to take a tour in Asia. If Lebron is the King, Kobe is the freaking emperor outside of US.

Take your head out of your a$$, and GTFO with sh!t like DRob will be remembered more than Kobe.

[Smoke117]

They had some great duels when Ray was on the Sonics.