G.O.A.T. Wrestler? [Archive] - Message Board Basketball Forum

GiveItToBurrito

08-01-2011, 08:29 PM

He's not my favorite but OVERALL i'd have to say this man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q23uzTeSJbE

Best mix of charisma, mic work, in-ring performance, longevity, impact and success I can think of. The rest. There were others who had all those but he was the best mix IMO

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: Took the words out of my mouth. The Rock and Austin might have been more entertaining, but they weren't as well rounded. Michaels could wrestle on the mat or doing spots, great moves, great finisher, looked credible against everyone without making it seem unreasonable that he could be beaten (a weakness guys like Taker and Kane have is that someone like Mysterio or even Benoit didn't look completely credible against them), and - and this is where he beats Austin and The Rock, two of my favorites - he could put on not just a good but possibly even a classic match with just about anyone. Even Cena, who's admittedly kind of underrated as a performer, was able to put on an incredible match with Shawn Michaels. The other thing I respect about him is that even though he's so well known for backstage politics and stuff, he only won the world title three times. A lot of his really memorable feuds and matches didn't even concern the world title.

After Michaels, I'm going with The Undertaker (only weakness was that he was limited on the mic), The Rock (crazy that he was only a regular for like four years and quit when he was about CM Punk's age; if he'd stuck with wrestling, he'd be as big a legend as Hogan), Austin (only weakness was that he wasn't that incredible as a technical wrestler, not that that stopped him from having some great matches), and Edge (basically a 6'5 HBK with a bit less charisma in the ring although he was arguably an even better promo guy). My personal favorite is still Benoit, though, who had a fascinating if disturbing life. Ring of Hell, a biography about him, is still my favorite book about wrestling.

Stone Cold

08-01-2011, 08:29 PM

I think it's fairly obvious who the GOAT is
http://oi53.tinypic.com/2qjb05d.jpg

QuebecBaller

08-01-2011, 08:54 PM

For me

http://myartsharing.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/todays-bret-hart-tomorrows.jpg

Knicks101

08-01-2011, 09:39 PM

:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: Took the words out of my mouth. The Rock and Austin might have been more entertaining, but they weren't as well rounded. Michaels could wrestle on the mat or doing spots, great moves, great finisher, looked credible against everyone without making it seem unreasonable that he could be beaten (a weakness guys like Taker and Kane have is that someone like Mysterio or even Benoit didn't look completely credible against them), and - and this is where he beats Austin and The Rock, two of my favorites - he could put on not just a good but possibly even a classic match with just about anyone. Even Cena, who's admittedly kind of underrated as a performer, was able to put on an incredible match with Shawn Michaels. The other thing I respect about him is that even though he's so well known for backstage politics and stuff, he only won the world title three times. A lot of his really memorable feuds and matches didn't even concern the world title.

After Michaels, I'm going with The Undertaker (only weakness was that he was limited on the mic), The Rock (crazy that he was only a regular for like four years and quit when he was about CM Punk's age; if he'd stuck with wrestling, he'd be as big a legend as Hogan), Austin (only weakness was that he wasn't that incredible as a technical wrestler, not that that stopped him from having some great matches), and Edge (basically a 6'5 HBK with a bit less charisma in the ring although he was arguably an even better promo guy). My personal favorite is still Benoit, though, who had a fascinating if disturbing life. Ring of Hell, a biography about him, is still my favorite book about wrestling.

HBK is very, very good but the truth is that he was never big enough to be the G.O.A.T. He was the guy during one of the worst eras in WWE history, and the WWE peaked in the span that he was out with the back injury. It's impressive that he actually got better after he took that time off and will probably be remembered more for his second run than he was his first, but he's definitely not the G.O.A.T. Not a great mic worker, can be incredibly hokey at times and an inconsistent seller. I'm a fan and he's put on some of the best matches ever, but he's not the best ever. Honestly, you could probably make an argument that he's not even Top 10.

Mamba

08-01-2011, 10:00 PM

the best

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cyEp8yz8c84/TbEsOC00TEI/AAAAAAAAAO8/PI6eDGifA08/s1600/Sting.jpg

IamSofaKing

08-01-2011, 10:06 PM

Im still hitting myself on the head for watching this crap back then.. What was i thinking? The only people who watch WWE these days are those weird white people you see shop at Wal Mart

Richie2k6

08-01-2011, 10:09 PM

best wrestler: kurt angle or bret hart
best performer: shawn michaels
best overall: austin or flair

Keith

08-01-2011, 10:14 PM

ooh yeah R.I.P Macho Man Randy Savage

I don't have a favorite but Ultimate Warrior, Jake the Snake, Ric Flair, Iron Sheik, and Andre The ******* Giant were the best! Golden era of Wrestling:rockon:

BlackJoker23

08-01-2011, 10:40 PM

HBK is very, very good but the truth is that he was never big enough to be the G.O.A.T. He was the guy during one of the worst eras in WWE history, and the WWE peaked in the span that he was out with the back injury. It's impressive that he actually got better after he took that time off and will probably be remembered more for his second run than he was his first, but he's definitely not the G.O.A.T. Not a great mic worker, can be incredibly hokey at times and an inconsistent seller. I'm a fan and he's put on some of the best matches ever, but he's not the best ever. Honestly, you could probably make an argument that he's not even Top 10.
true but you went overboard with the not even top 10.

johndeeregreen

08-01-2011, 10:42 PM

Not sure about GOAT, but Razor Ramon is by far my favorite persona of all time.

L.Kizzle

08-01-2011, 11:34 PM

Buff Bagwell? :confusedshrug:

Scholar

08-01-2011, 11:39 PM

Maybe I'll get flamed for saying this but when I used to watch wrestling (it's been several long years now), I always thought this dude was the best:

http://www2.wwe.com/content/media/images/Superstars/bio/5369448

Shelton Benjamin

He was extremely charismatic, extremely athletic, and just a fun wrestler to watch overall.
WWE never promoted him enough for fans to actually appreciate the guy, but if they did promote him instead of dudes like Eugene (the mentally challenged wrestler... :facepalm ), return again & retire again Hulk Hogan, etc., I think you guys would be mentioning him as either the GOAT or close enough to it.
His Money in the Bank performance a long while back was incredible.

L.Kizzle

08-01-2011, 11:41 PM

Gundress

08-01-2011, 11:43 PM

Hulk Hogan number 1 and when he was NWO, he was bad dude at the time...shit was bad ass N!O

Mr.Wonderful

Warrior

Sting

Stone Cold

The Rock

80's-90's>>>>shitty 2000 MFER

Goldberg

Samurai Swoosh

08-01-2011, 11:44 PM

http://i56.tinypic.com/10eknr7.jpg
That's precisely why Rock is my GOAT. He competed in intense feuds against the man I consider to be the 2nd best ever, aka the Texas Rattlesnake.

:pimp:

Skywalker

08-01-2011, 11:45 PM

omfg shelton benjamin is horrible, remove that picture from this thread immediately, remove the whole damn post ffs DELETE IT

Samurai Swoosh

08-01-2011, 11:46 PM

the best

http://1.bp.blogspot.com/-cyEp8yz8c84/TbEsOC00TEI/AAAAAAAAAO8/PI6eDGifA08/s1600/Sting.jpg
At stealing gimmicks?

1st he was a rip off of the Ultimate Warrior.

2nd he was a rip off of the Crow

Now he's a 50 year old rip off of The Dark Knight Joker?

Stole Brett Hart's finishing move?

:oldlol:

Knicks101

08-01-2011, 11:55 PM

true but you went overboard with the not even top 10.

Maybe, but I think you can make a case for...

Hogan
The Rock
Steve Austin
John Cena (yeah)
Mick Foley
Mil Mascaras
Rikidōzan
Randy Savage
Flair
Mitsuharu Misawa
Bret Hart
Jumbo Tsuruta
Bruno Sammartino
The Undertaker
Andre the Giant
Sting

Over him. Probably a couple of other guys too over him. Not saying that he wouldn't be in my Top 10 necessarily just that it's debatable. I just don't see how a guy who isn't the best, or very close to it in any one thing (ring work, charisma, mic skills, drawing power etc.) can be considered the G.O.A.T.

Samurai Swoosh

08-02-2011, 12:14 AM

IMO, my top five all-time ... and it's not just limited to wrestling skills. That's remedial. Because it's not an actual sport, so what does it matter? It's about entertainment.

1) The Rock
2) Stone Cold
3) Undertaker
4) Ric Flair
5) Hulk Hogan

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 12:25 AM

The bold ones have the case IMO.

The Rock and Sting are a border-lined ones.

Cena is a bigger draw than HBK ever was, he's also better on the mic. Savage is a victim of having his career ruined by Vince and being stuck announcing when he was still in his prime. He should have had a better career than he did. Foley just had godly mic skills. One of the best ever. Bret was a better wrestler than HBK, his career would have been a lot different if Bischoff knew what to do with him. Then a guy like Bruno was a huge draw, the biggest of his era. I've never seen him wrestle but he was supposed to be good. Then the Japanese guys were some of the biggest draws over there and put on great matches. I don't know if their success can compared to an American's though. :confusedshrug:

I think all those guys have cases, personally. The borderline ones would be guys like Steamboat, Rhodes, Thesz, The Funks, Backlund. Probably a few others.

Samurai Swoosh

08-02-2011, 12:31 AM

The Rock and Sting are a border-lined ones.
:oldlol:

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 12:32 AM

:oldlol:

No longevity.

Samurai Swoosh

08-02-2011, 12:37 AM

No longevity.
No need to stick around in a business you dominated and did all there was to do ...

The Rock would have been doing his own legacy a disservice sticking around and having feuds with talent-less chumps from 2003 -

What more could he do for his resume?

Instead, like the true great ones in their crafts (Ali, Jordan, Ruth) he transcended the business he competed in and became something more.

Don't be upset he actually had the talent to be successful elsewhere.

If anything is dominance from 1998 - 2003 is enough a lone to leave one of the biggest impacts on the business of all-time.

And he did it without having to stick around ... FOREVER

Does one have to be a sad, pathetic old man continuing to try and wrestle to be considered "the greatest"?

The Rock was the most talented person to ever step foot in that industry by a LONG shot.

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 12:41 AM

Cena is still a long way to go, he is looking very promising to be the GOAT though. If you can draw both marks and haters you are the winner.

Savage is a "What could have been" one. Also, he wasn't as big internationally as Hogan or Flair during the same era.

Was Bruno big worldwide then? Or just around WWWF territories and that was it?

For Japanese guys, ones who have proven to be huge internationally could be considered GOAT. Only three come up; Antonio Inoki, Giant Baba and Kenta Kobashi.

Cena won't ever be GOAT, he's not talented enough. He's a huge draw, but it's during a weak era. Taints it a bit.

Could Bruno be big worldwide though? I mean we're talking about late 60's early 70's. It's not comparable.

CJ Mustard

08-02-2011, 12:42 AM

http://www.miserableretailslave.com/Chris%20Jericho%20Undisputed%20Champ.jpg

ballerz

08-02-2011, 12:45 AM

The rock. Best mic skills ever and put on great matches

Samurai Swoosh

08-02-2011, 12:45 AM

Good point. But for me, he becomes more of the GOAT entertainer than the GOAT pro wrestler.
Wrestling is entertainment. It's not a sport, and it certainly isn't "wrestling" ... real wrestling that is ... so why all the emphasis on the "skill" of it. It's a fake sport.

Sure athleticism can be displayed (which the Rock does) ... but at the end of the day its all about entertainment. Because what value is ring skills if its a predetermined outcome?

Pro wrestling is stunts + acting ability + charisma

Thus, the Rock is clearly the GOAT

Regardless of tenure.

His dominance, impact, and influence in a 5 year span is greater than most people's careers.

Hogan tried branching off into movies and failed miserably.

The Rock actually is decent in that media outlet as well.

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 12:46 AM

No need to stick around in a business you dominated and did all there was to do ...

The Rock would have been doing his own legacy a disservice sticking around and having feuds with talent-less chumps from 2003 -

What more could he do for his resume?

Instead, like the true great ones in their crafts (Ali, Jordan, Ruth) he transcended the business he competed in and became something more.

Don't be upset he actually had the talent to be successful elsewhere.

If anything is dominance from 1998 - 2003 is enough a lone to leave one of the biggest impacts on the business of all-time.

And he did it without having to stick around ... FOREVER

Does one have to be a sad, pathetic old man continuing to try and wrestle to be considered "the greatest"?

The Rock was the most talented person to ever step foot in that industry by a LONG shot.

No he wasn't. Most charismatic maybe, but definitely not the most talented.

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 12:49 AM

Wrestling is entertainment. It's not a sport, and it certainly isn't "wrestling" ... real wrestling that is ... so why all the emphasis on the "skill" of it. It's a fake sport.

Sure athleticism can be displayed (which the Rock does) ... but at the end of the day its all about entertainment. Because what value is ring skills if its a predetermined outcome?

Pro wrestling is stunts + acting ability + charisma

Thus, the Rock is clearly the GOAT

Regardless of tenure.

His dominance, impact, and influence in a 5 year span is greater than most people's careers.

Hogan tried branching off into movies and failed miserably.

The Rock actually is decent in that media outlet as well.

Ring skills matter, it's stupid to suggest that they don't. You don't have to be Benoit or Bret Hart, but if ring skills didn't matter, Tom Magee would have been a World Champion.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4zYfaTBLk0&feature=player_embedded

Samurai Swoosh

08-02-2011, 12:51 AM

No he wasn't. Most charismatic maybe, but definitely not the most talented.
Easily the most talented and gifted.

When you combine everything that defines pro wrestling

Athleticism, Wrestling "Skill", Pedigree, Looks, Charisma, Character (original), Catch phrases, Draw, Likability Mic skills ... kid had it all.

Whether he was a face or a heel, he sold it ... everytime.

Can't teach that ... or learn that. It's innate.

And he did things so effortlessly. He always had the audience in the palm of his hands.

To this day he does ... and he doesn't have to stick around forever for NO reason, destroying his body and reputation and become a sad joke like most professional wrestlers do

See: Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Sting, etc.

In fact he retains a better legacy having dominated, then hanging it up and doing something that won't cripple his body in the long run.

He has actual talent so he can branch off into other avenues and be successful.

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 12:54 AM

Easily the most talented and gifted.

When you combine everything that defines pro wrestling

Athleticism, Wrestling "Skill", Pedigree, Looks, Charisma, Character (original), Catch phrases, Draw, Likability Mic skills ... kid had it all.

Whether he was a face or a heel, he sold it ... everytime.

Can't teach that ... or learn that. It's innate.

And he did things so effortlessly. He always had the audience in the palm of his hands.

To this day he does ... and he doesn't have to stick around forever for NO reason, destroying his body and reputation and become a sad joke like most professional wrestlers do

See: Hulk Hogan, Ric Flair, Sting, etc.

In fact he retains a better legacy having dominated, then hanging it up and doing something that won't cripple his body in the long run.

He has actual talent so he can branch off into other avenues and be successful.

Steve Austin was infinitely more talented than The Rock ever was, and I'm a bigger fan of The Rock than I ever was of Austin. You're clearly a Rocky mark though so it's not really even worth arguing.

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 12:55 AM

How the hell Baba signed this douche? :banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Bret Hart said that he carried this guy so well in a match that Vince said that Magee was his next world champ. :oldlol:

I find that hard to believe, the only guy who I've seen who's worse is Raja Lion.

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 12:55 AM

He could be forgotten, but yeah he definitely has a case.

Overrated internet creation.

Samurai Swoosh

08-02-2011, 12:57 AM

Steve Austin was infinitely more talented than The Rock ever was, and I'm a bigger fan of The Rock than I ever was of Austin. You're clearly a Rocky mark though so it's not really even worth arguing.
Stone Cold is my 2nd favorite ... and no he isn't as talented as the Rock. Closest of the bunch. But no ...

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 01:03 AM

Stone Cold is my 2nd favorite ... and no he isn't as talented as the Rock. Closest of the bunch. But no ...

Yeah, Steve Austin is the closest to a perfect wrestler we've ever seen. An amazing worker, Charisma, Look, Mic Skills, Draw. He had it all. Much better than The Rock ever was. Flair is probably second. Eddie Guerrero or Savage possibly third.

The Rock lacked something when it came to his mic work. I wouldn't go as far to say that he was just a catch phrase guy like other's do but he lacked something that guys like Foley had. He just doesn't have that human element. Just seems like he's playing a character. He could never pull off something like this.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I-lJTvgaZME

or this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mV38FRJ6Gas

Austin was very talented wrestler, until his knee broke, then his neck, then another knee. But that only made his mic works shine very brightly.

He still put on great matches after that. Some of his best.

Samurai Swoosh

08-02-2011, 01:04 AM

The dude can't even do Sharp Shooter right.
And that's the only thing that defines "talented" and "gifted"?

Because his variation of the sharp shooter was ever so slightly different?

:oldlol:

Brett Hart can do crazy wrestling moves till he's blue in the face and he's not NEAR as talented as the Rock.

Wrestling is more about charisma, acting, presence and all that jazz than it is in ring abilities.

And even then, the Rock was clearly good enough.

If it was about technical skill, boring shmoes like Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit and those wooden clows would be getting all the attention.

But they dont ... The Rock ... Stone Cold? They can sell people on the business.

No one really tunes in for "technical" fake fighting.

:oldlol:

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 01:09 AM

And that's the only thing that defines "talented" and "gifted"?

Because his variation of the sharp shooter was ever so slightly different?

:oldlol:

Brett Hart can do crazy wrestling moves till he's blue in the face and he's not NEAR as talented as the Rock.

Wrestling is more about charisma, acting, presence and all that jazz than it is in ring abilities.

And even then, the Rock was clearly good enough.

If it was about technical skill, boring shmoes like Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit and those wooden clows would be getting all the attention.

But they dont ... The Rock ... Stone Cold? They can sell people on the business.

No one really tunes in for "technical" fake fighting.

:oldlol:

:oldlol: You really have no idea what you're talking about.

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 01:13 AM

There are more than 4,004 submission moves in the world that suit Rock more and make him looks better during matches. He chooses the least convincing one.

It's good to have others, but in the end in-ring abilities are the most important. You are a "pro wrestler". Wrestle.

I'm pretty sure he adopted the Sharpshooter as a tribute to Owen Hart. I'll take The Rock's Sharpshooter over Cena's STF any day so I can't complain.

They aren't the most important, but it matters a lot. There's some guys who can't have a good match with anybody, those guys can't be World Champs unless you have no other choice.

http://www.bollywoodworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/11/the-great-khali-india.jpg
:facepalm

Skywalker

08-02-2011, 01:20 AM

lmao at that tom magee clown, wtf was that? and the asian guy was completely no selling LMFAO

Mamba

08-02-2011, 01:23 AM

Sting does have a legitimate case. Sting v.s. NWO was just as much of a reason of WCW's success as Hogan turning heel. it was insane.

http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/__cb20091009154353/prowrestling/images/a/a8/Sting_WCW_Championship_3.jpg

he was legit, even if he ripped off the crow.

the joker thing is just effing hilarious.

Jackass18

08-02-2011, 01:26 AM

omfg shelton benjamin is horrible, remove that picture from this thread immediately, remove the whole damn post ffs DELETE IT

You shouldn't talk, you like shitty Jeff Hardy.

Jackass18

08-02-2011, 01:30 AM

For Japanese guys, ones who have proven to be huge internationally could be considered GOAT. Only three come up; Antonio Inoki, Giant Baba and Kenta Kobashi.

Giant Baba sucked as a wrestler, but I don't really know how he was in the '70s, though.

BlackJoker23

08-02-2011, 01:57 AM

im one of the people who doesnt give a shit about actual wrestling skills. i care more about the entertaiment aspect. its why i never paid for ppvs even before the streaming era. dont really care about wrestling skills that much. if i wanted to measure wrestling ability, there's plenty of other stuff to watch. so the rock is the goat for me because his ability to entertain shits on everybody elses. even austins, flairs, piper, goldust, steiner and all others. guy was just oozing with charisma.

hogan is overrated trash but i understand the argument for him.

BlackJoker23

08-02-2011, 02:02 AM

And that's the only thing that defines "talented" and "gifted"?

Because his variation of the sharp shooter was ever so slightly different?

:oldlol:

Brett Hart can do crazy wrestling moves till he's blue in the face and he's not NEAR as talented as the Rock.

Wrestling is more about charisma, acting, presence and all that jazz than it is in ring abilities.

And even then, the Rock was clearly good enough.

If it was about technical skill, boring shmoes like Dean Malenko, Chris Benoit and those wooden clows would be getting all the attention.

But they dont ... The Rock ... Stone Cold? They can sell people on the business.

No one really tunes in for "technical" fake fighting.

:oldlol:
this. nobody gives a phuck about technical skills except for hardcore purists and those clown ass smarks. dean malenko was probably goat at technical wrestling (best i've seen atleast) but a trash pro wrestler.

DirkNowitzki41

08-02-2011, 02:02 AM

the miz

crosso√er

08-02-2011, 02:18 AM

H.B.K. for me.
Most well-rounded entertainer.

Great mic skills, sacrificed his body in the ring, was a high flyer, involved in some of the most memorable feuds. I just liked his character since he was a Rocker.

He was perfect along-side Diesel, was the reason DX made a successful transition as a group; had some of the most epic matches of All-Time.

His longevity, charisma, and sacrifice (to me) is second to none.

BankShot

08-02-2011, 02:23 AM

For me ...

The Rock

Greatest era, not corny, hilarious, entertaining, athletic, had the looks the wit ... just flat out easily the best entertainer to ever grace the "sport"

Even having been almost a decade out of the game, he comes back and cuts promos on John Cena and utterly destroys the kid

:oldlol:

Your favorite?

The Rock was a bit over-the-top in his mic-work (both scripted and shoot) and his performance in the ring.... but in terms of charisma, ring-work, marketability, and non-wrestling popularity, he definitely is the greatest overall athlete/performer/personality of the most modern era of professional wrestling.

Stone Cold comes close.... as he may have been bigger within the pro-wrestling world.... but in terms of a greater spectrum of exposure, The Rock did more with what started in the WWF (I still refuse to fully call it WWE.... god damn panda-loving-mutha-f*ckaz)

Crystallas

08-02-2011, 02:31 AM

Ultimate Warrior

Jackass18

08-02-2011, 03:56 AM

:facepalm

In his prime, he was a beast, very skilled for a big man.

As I said, he looked like shit whenever I saw him, but I didn't see him in his prime in the '70s.

JohnnySic

08-02-2011, 07:08 AM

Lebron23

08-02-2011, 10:27 AM

Bret Hart

Skywalker

08-02-2011, 12:19 PM

You shouldn't talk, you like shitty Jeff Hardy.

He's a legend idiot :confusedshrug:

Samurai Swoosh

08-02-2011, 03:08 PM

this. nobody gives a phuck about technical skills except for hardcore purists and those clown ass smarks. dean malenko was probably goat at technical wrestling (best i've seen atleast) but a trash pro wrestler.
Gets it.

What clown tunes into watch "techniques" in a fake sport?

:oldlol:

D12"Magic"

08-02-2011, 06:04 PM

Rocky was not a great wrestler, he was decent but so was stone cold. Nobody was good as the Rock on the Mic nor can someone match his charisma. He could play Heel and Face very well.

D12"Magic"

08-02-2011, 07:05 PM

GOAT Match :bowdown:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yxHGhUALx-A
6 Man Hell in a Cell :bowdown:
Im surprised to see the bosses son in law take so much damage in this match. And the right person won.

craigthomasb

08-02-2011, 07:54 PM

the miz

this

j/k

honestly couldnt pick one, the rock, stone cold, loved watching them, were they the greatest wrestlers? no but they were the greatest entertainers

Samurai Swoosh

08-02-2011, 09:55 PM

It's about entertainment.

Not "technical" skills in a fake athletic competition.

:oldlol:

catch24

08-02-2011, 10:05 PM

It's about entertainment.

Not "technical" skills in a fake athletic competition.

:oldlol:

I think you gotta have it all, and Dwyane definitely had that. Not saying "technical skills" shouldn't play a factor, but too many people, as you've been saying, are putting way too much emphasis on it. The WWE is predetermined :oldlol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb1l09d6J1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRWi8sMA8_8 (Booker T trying not to break character)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2g3674m2zo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYGweTnJC4o (a heel here, loses match, and still gets a standing ovation).

As an all-around pro Wrestler, he is the best. Austin, Undertaker and Shawn Michaels are the only three guys that hold a candle to the Rock.

HHH, personally, is also one of my favorite wrestlers of all-time. talk about longevity.... lol

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 10:24 PM

I think you gotta have it all, and Dwyane definitely had that. Not saying "technical skills" shouldn't play a factor, but too many people, as you've been saying, are putting way too much emphasis on it. The WWE is predetermined :oldlol:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gb1l09d6J1o
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VRWi8sMA8_8 (Booker T trying not to break character)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i2g3674m2zo
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nYGweTnJC4o (a heel here, loses match, and still gets a standing ovation).

As an all-around pro Wrestler, he is the best. Austin, Undertaker and Shawn Michaels are the only three guys that hold a candle to the Rock.

HHH, personally, is also one of my favorite wrestlers of all-time. talk about longevity.... lol

Who's putting too much emphasis on it exactly? You don't have to be great in the ring, The Rock wasn't. You have to be adequate which The Rock was. Above it actually, he's better than a lot of guys who were in that position. Hogan, Warrior, Nash and many others. All I'm saying is he's not the best overall talent that we've seen. Austin, Flair, Savage and Guerrero and probably a few others if I cared to think enough to think about it more, were all better talents overall and it's not just because of their "technical skill".

Saying that being able to wrestle doesn't matter to be the greatest wrestler ever is stupid. It's like saying Shaq is the best at basketball because he was entertaining outside of basketball. It makes no sense.

catch24

08-02-2011, 10:38 PM

Who's putting too much emphasis on it exactly?

The people Swoosh has been quoting.

don't have to be great in the ring, The Rock wasn't.

What do you consider "good in the ring"? To me, I thought the Rock was good enough. He was one of the best athletes in the locker room during his peak and also had GREAT wrestling skills (ddt, sharpshooter, snap belly to belly suplex, diving crossbody block, diving clothesline, catapault, russian legsweep, etc).

The fact he was a GREAT in-ring wrestler, elite on the mic, insanely popular with the fans (more than Cena who is probably the most polarizing superstar in Wrestling-Entertainment history), more recognized than possibly every Wrestler that's stepped on the mat, sold out PPP's, and along with Austin, single-handedly changed the entire dynamic of the business. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point. Many believe he's the greatest. Don't really care if you agree or not; it's just my opinion. I can see an argument for him being top 3-4 with some of the other Wrestlers I mentioned earlier.

The Rock Bottom

08-02-2011, 10:46 PM

I love The Rock and he's easily my favorite wrestler but how can he be the GOAT when he was 2nd fiddle to Stone Cold every year from 98-02?

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 10:53 PM

The people Swoosh has been quoting.

What do you consider "good in the ring"? To me, I thought the Rock was good enough. He was one of the best athletes in the locker room during his peak and also had GREAT wrestling skills (ddt, sharpshooter, snap belly to belly suplex, diving crossbody block, diving clothesline, catapault, russian legsweep, etc).

The fact he was a GREAT in-ring wrestler, elite on the mic, insanely popular with the fans (more than Cena who is probably the most polarizing superstar in Wrestling-Entertainment history), more recognized than possibly every Wrestler that's stepped on the mat, sold out PPP's, and along with Austin, single-handedly changed the entire dynamic of the business. I could go on, but I'm sure you get the point. Many believe he's the greatest. Don't really care if you agree or not; it's just my opinion. I can see an argument for him being top 3-4 with some of the other Wrestlers I mentioned earlier.

Being good in the ring is understanding the difference between this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnlkt1JJktw

and this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G2hHA7LIm8

Being good in the ring has nothing to do with how many moves you do. It's having psychology. Doing stuff that makes sense. Selling moves. Telling a story in the ring. Using your facial expressions and body language to convey something. There's a reason why guys like Jack Evans never make it big. Sure you can do a 630, it's cool to look at. But they don't understand that the moves have to make sense in the context of the match. You can't just do big move after big move, it gets boring quick. Being able to work a match is one of the most important things and some people just put it on the backburner. When a person buys a ticket to go to a wrestling show, they're paying to see wrestling. Not to see who can spit out the most catch phrases.

catch24

08-02-2011, 11:02 PM

It's having psychology. Doing stuff that makes sense. Selling moves. Telling a story in the ring. Using your facial expressions and body language to convey something.

You're saying the Rock didn't have any of this? :oldlol:

C'mon son.

Being good in the ring is understanding the difference between this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bnlkt1JJktw

and this

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8G2hHA7LIm8

Meh, I think all that stuff is subjective. You believe 'being good in the ring' has nothing to do with your in-ring ability (or skills), while I believe it plays a part. Agree to disagree.

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 11:04 PM

You're saying the Rock didn't have any of this? :oldlol:

C'mon son.

Meh, I think all that stuff is subjective. You believe 'being good in the ring' has nothing to do with your in-ring ability (or skills), while I believe it plays a part. Agree to disagree.

I'm not saying that at all. Like I said before, he was above average. He's just not good enough to be considered the most talented wrestler ever. Austin is. :rolleyes:

Define "in-ring ability" and "skills".

You clearly didn't watch either match if you think the difference between the two is subjective.

catch24

08-02-2011, 11:17 PM

I'm not saying that at all. Like I said before, he was above average. He's just not good enough to be considered the most talented wrestler ever. Austin is. :rolleyes:

I'm "ok" with Austin being better than the Rock. He's def in the same tier.

Define "in-ring ability" and "skills".

In-ring ability and skills are complimentary to each other. The Rock had tons "in-ring ability"/"skills' (gutwrench-suplex, shoulderbreaker - his first finisher, reverse shoulder-breaker, Samoan backdrop to add a few more), sold them, and damn near perfected them.

You're saying he was above average yet are using that same argument against him. The Rock isn't "G.O.A.T" to people solely because of in-ring abilities, it's the fact he was the most entertaining. He had the best combination of wrestling ability, skills, mic-work, charisma, marketability and popularity.

You clearly didn't watch either match if you think the difference between the two is subjective.

The Youtube links weren't really what I was referring to. Your argument of "being good in the ring" is entirely subjective, that's all.

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 11:21 PM

I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore. The Rock is very very very very very very good. He's not the most talented wrestler ever, or even Top 5. That's it.

The-Legend-24

08-02-2011, 11:22 PM

Ric flair is GOAT

Wooooooo!!!!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xF1Kc4Rg45k&feature=related

D12"Magic"

08-02-2011, 11:22 PM

In 10 Years I will Bump this and be proud to say CODY RHODES.

catch24

08-02-2011, 11:22 PM

I don't even know what we're arguing about anymore. The Rock is very very very very very very good. He's not the most talented wrestler ever, or even Top 5. That's it.

I don't either. I think he's G.O.A.T, you think he's possibly Top 5

As I said, agree to disagree :cheers:

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 11:24 PM

I don't either. I think he's G.O.A.T, you think he's possibly Top 5

As I said, agree to disagree :cheers:

He's a Top 5 wrestler ever. He's not Top 5 most talented.

catch24

08-02-2011, 11:25 PM

He's a Top 5 wrestler ever. He's not Top 5 most talented.

Alright.

Styles p

08-02-2011, 11:25 PM

bret heart /thread

D12"Magic"

08-02-2011, 11:26 PM

He's a Top 5 wrestler ever. He's not Top 5 most talented.
His Wrestling ability is not even top 10. But besides that he is untouchable.

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 11:27 PM

Totally agreed with this. As far as I love watching him performing, I just can't put him in the GOAT list just yet.

Imagine how big Guerrero would have been if he was like, 6 inches taller? I didn't appreciate his talent enough while he was alive but damn was that guy good.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GfbVU86QnZw

One of my favorite matches ever. :roll:

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 11:28 PM

His Wrestling ability is not even top 10. But besides that he is untouchable.

He has a great case for most charismatic ever. I'd probably rank him something like this.

In-Ring Skills 6
Charisma 10
Mic Skills 9
Drawing Ability 10

D12"Magic"

08-02-2011, 11:28 PM

I don't this he will ever pass an upper mid-carder level. IMO, he just doesn't have "it".
I was exaggerating when I said he will be GOAT but he is gonna be something, he has the Gimmick, Mic Skills and is a Decent Wrestler.

catch24

08-02-2011, 11:32 PM

His Wrestling ability is not even top 10. But besides that he is untouchable.

He was immensely skilled, but I do agree that he wasn't even close as far as who had the most talent goes.

The Rock
Stone Cold
Undertaker
HBK
HHH

The 5 all-around greatest WWE Wrestlers ever, imo. Incidentally, 4/5 were apart of the Attitude Era (technically 5, but HBK's peak was before).

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 11:35 PM

Some dudes just can't either keep it together (Jake "The Snake" Roberts, Scott Hall, Dynamite Kid, etc) or live long enough (Owen Hart, Chris Benoit, Jumbo Tsuruta etc.) to be the GOAT.

I need to look into Jake "The Snake" Roberts more. I've never really checked his stuff out. Not a fan of Owen. He definitely has gotten overrated in death. Talented, but I've heard stuff about what a great mic worker he was and how he was better than Bret was in the ring. He wasn't.

BlackJoker23

08-02-2011, 11:36 PM

too many strudel lovers in this thread.

I love The Rock and he's easily my favorite wrestler but how can he be the GOAT when he was 2nd fiddle to Stone Cold every year from 98-02?
lmfao. the rock was the top dog in 99 ever since they turned him face the night after backlash i think. thats despite the fact that austin was featured in the main event cause of his feud with vince. he sold more merchandise that year and even in the promos (remember the triple threat with austin, rock, hhh) the rock was getting cheered while austin got booed a bit. even when they wrestled the new age outlawz in 99, rocky was getting all the chants. same thing in the raw after unforgiven when hhh hit rock with the chair and started taunting austin. in 00, austin wasnt even there so the rock was definitely top dog. in 01, its a bit arguable, they were a draw the way i saw it. the only reason austin was getting cheered at wm 17 was cause it was in texas. then austin was heel for most of the year. in 02, it was clearly rocky again, he was getting recognized as a legit movie star at that time. he got booed at ss against lesnar cause long island knew he was leaving.

these links are all from 99 and the rock has the top selling items but he wasnt as big of a draw:facepalm
http://web.archive.org/web/19990824211840/wwfshopzone.com/hot.asp
http://web.archive.org/web/1999100815190/www.wwfshopzone.com/hot.asp
http://web.archive.org/web/19991012110756/wwfshopzone.com/hot.asp

wrestling observer newsletter top draws from 98-02
1998 - 1. Steve Austin (set all-time record for most big gates in one year); 2. Undertaker; 3. Kane; 4. Mick Foley; 5. The Rock; 6. Bill Goldberg; 7. Hulk Hogan; 8. HHH; 9. Sting; 10. Randy Savage

1999 - 1. The Rock (set all-time record for most big gates in one year); 2. Steve Austin; 3. HHH; 4. Big Show; 5. Kane; 6. Undertaker; 7. Keiji Muto; 8. Bill Goldberg; 9. Ric Flair; 10. Kevin Nash

2000 - 1. The Rock (set all-time record for most big gates in one year); 2. HHH; 3. Kurt Angle; 4. Kane and Chris Benoit; 6. X-Pac; 7. Undertaker; 8. Road Dogg; 9. Naoya Ogawa; 10. Kensuke Sasaki and Chris Jericho

2001 - 1. Steve Austin; 2. The Rock; 3. Kurt Angle; 4. HHH; 5. Undertaker; 6. Chris Jericho; 7. Kane; 8. Kensuke Sasaki, Chris Benoit and Keiji Muto

2002 -1. The Rock; 2. Bob Sapp; 3. HHH; 4. Hulk Hogan; 5. Chris Jericho; 6. Steve Austin; 7. Kazushi Sakuraba; 8. Brock Lesnar; 9. Yuji Nagata and Mirko Cro Cop
link:http://wfigs.proboards.com/index.cgi?board=prowrestling&action=print&thread=198109

the rock laying the smackdown>austin's bald candy ass

D12"Magic"

08-02-2011, 11:37 PM

He was immensely skilled, but I do agree that he wasn't even close as far as who had the most talent goes.

The Rock
Stone Cold
Undertaker
HBK
HHH

The 5 all-around greatest WWE Wrestlers ever, imo. Incidentally, 4/5 were apart of the Attitude Era (technically 5, but HBK's peak was before).
Stone Cold was more of a Brawler.
Rocky was Just Athletic.
Kurt belongs in that list along with Eddie.
Also I dont want to say his name but you probably know who I mean.
Also Jericho > Than Rock, Austin, HHH in Pure Wrestling ability

BlackJoker23

08-02-2011, 11:39 PM

Stone Cold was more of a Brawler.
Rocky was Just Athletic.
Kurt belongs in that list along with Eddie.
Also I dont want to say his name but you probably know who I mean.
Also Jericho > Than Rock, Austin, HHH in Pure Wrestling ability
scsa was a great wrestler capable of wrestling various styles before he had the neck injury and was forced to make the transition to a full time brawler.

catch24

08-02-2011, 11:41 PM

Stone Cold was more of a Brawler.
Rocky was Just Athletic.
Kurt belongs in that list along with Eddie.
Also I dont want to say his name but you probably know who I mean.
Also Jericho > Than Rock, Austin, HHH in Pure Wrestling ability

Yeah I know who you mean. Benoit was a GREAT technical wrestler. Lets call it like it is.

As all-around Wrestlers, I include mic-work, charisma, popularity with fans, etc., all that good stuff. Eddie isn't in my Top 5, and neither is Jericho. Same goes for Kurt. They were all great, but top 5 imo is pushing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hhnVPTrruU

Shit still cracks me up :oldlol:

D12"Magic"

08-02-2011, 11:45 PM

Yeah I know who you mean. Benoit was a GREAT technical wrestler. Lets call it like it is.

As all-around Wrestlers, I include mic-work, charisma, popularity with fans, etc., all that good stuff. Eddie isn't in my Top 5, and neither is Jericho. Same goes for Kurt. They were all great, but top 5 imo is pushing it.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hhnVPTrruU

Shit still cracks me up :oldlol:
You are saying Wrestlers? Or Superstars? Cause Rocky, Austin even HHH aren't the best wrestlers.
Jericho is the only one that matches your criteria, Great Wrestler, 2nd Best on the Mic only To Rock, and has tons of Charisma and a large fan-base, not as big as Austin's or Rock but still a good fanbase. Surprised to not see him in your list.

catch24

08-02-2011, 11:45 PM

the rock laying the smackdown>austin's bald candy ass

Nah, you laid los-smack-a-down on this thread, man :oldlol:

Good stuff; thanks for posting those links.

D12"Magic"

08-02-2011, 11:46 PM

To support the statement:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-YmLjzZXa_w

And remember when Austin, with a bad neck and knees, took 10 plus German suplexes from Chris Benoit?
The Stunner and the Peoples Elbow are the most overated Moves/Finishers I have ever seen :facepalm :oldlol:

The-Legend-24

08-02-2011, 11:47 PM

Quick question anybody know who's more popular,and known to more fans? The Rock or John cena?

catch24

08-02-2011, 11:48 PM

You are saying Wrestlers? Or Superstars? Cause Rocky, Austin even HHH aren't the best wrestlers.
Jericho is the only one that matches your criteria, Great Wrestler, 2nd Best on the Mic only To Rock, and has tons of Charisma and a large fan-base, not as big as Austin's or Rock but still a good fanbase. Surprised to not see him in your list.

My criteria for greatest WWE wrestlers are what I've explained, which include technical in-ring skillsets, ability, personality, charisma, mic-work, acting, marketability and popularity.

The guys I mentioned, IMO, have had the best WWE careers as all-around Wrestlers.

Jackass18

08-02-2011, 11:50 PM

He's a legend idiot :confusedshrug:

Only to little kids like you.

D12"Magic"

08-02-2011, 11:50 PM

My criteria for greatest WWE wrestlers are what I've explained, which include technical in-ring skillsets, ability, personality, charisma, mic-work, acting, marketability and popularity.

The guys I mentioned, IMO, have had the best WWE careers as all-around Wrestlers.
What does, Acting, Mic Skills and Popularity have to do with WRESTLING :wtf:
If you mean the Greatest Superstars than yea.. You are putting it down as if they can wrestle.

Jackass18

08-02-2011, 11:52 PM

He was immensely skilled, but I do agree that he wasn't even close as far as who had the most talent goes.

The Rock
Stone Cold
Undertaker
HBK
HHH

The 5 all-around greatest WWE Wrestlers ever, imo. Incidentally, 4/5 were apart of the Attitude Era (technically 5, but HBK's peak was before).

Umm, yeah, no. They're all overrated, but HHH is probably the most overrated of that bunch.

Knicks101

08-02-2011, 11:53 PM

Quick question anybody know who's more popular,and known to more fans? The Rock or John cena?

http://i734.photobucket.com/albums/ww345/efad1/gxWZS.gif

catch24

08-02-2011, 11:53 PM

What does, Acting, Mic Skills and Popularity have to do with WRESTLING :wtf:
If you mean the Greatest Superstars than yea.. You are putting it down as if they can wrestle.

That's part of the business. I'm not ranking them as technical wrestlers, but for their WWE-wrestling careers. To clear up any confusion, as "Superstars" works too.

D12"Magic"

08-02-2011, 11:53 PM

Stunner looks good so I give it a pass.

I would rather enjoy Great Muta's or Chris Benoit's flash elbows than the People's Elbow.
At-Least the Rock did Have the Rock Bottom aside from TPE.

D12"Magic"

08-02-2011, 11:55 PM

That's part of the business. I'm not ranking them as technical wrestlers, but for their WWE-wrestling careers. To clear up any confusion, as "Superstars" works too.
Yea but if that is the Case you mine-as-well throw in Cena.

D12"Magic"

08-02-2011, 11:58 PM

Oh and for all the Rocky fans, I recommend his DVD, They show his greatest matches plus his greatest Promos. Its a great DVD. Its on Netflix btw.

catch24

08-03-2011, 12:00 AM

Umm, yeah, no. They're all overrated, but HHH is probably the most overrated of that bunch.

To each his own. HHH competed for the Championship (or heavyweight) belt at least 6x years, longer than both the Rock and Stone Cold.

His longevity is damn impressive.

catch24

08-03-2011, 12:00 AM

Yea but if that is the Case you mine-as-well throw in Cena.

lmao :oldlol:

B-Low

08-03-2011, 12:01 AM

^^yeah his DVD is good. I bought it for $10 at Wal Mart.

It was the first WWE DVD i bought since like 2004 because i HATE that they have to blur the old logo out on everything. Its so distracting that i can't even enjoy the shit. The titantron, the turnbuckles, the cameramen's shirts, the crowd signs, the microphones, bleeping out WWF every time someone says it...it's bullshit. That's why i started buying old WWF dvds from 2001 and earlier on amazon. So i can see the original footage

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:02 AM

HHH had a better run in 2000-2001 than most guys have had careers. He's very good. He's not the guy who's going to get a great match out of scrubs like Benoit or HBK did but he's a great big match guy.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:05 AM

lmao :oldlol:
Lets see He is a bad wrestler like Austin and Rocky, Has good Mic Skills whether you want to admit it or not. Has a Large Fan base and is just as popular. Matches your criteria.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:07 AM

Lets see He is a bad wrestler like Austin and Rocky, Has good Mic Skills whether you want to admit it or not. Has a Large Fan base and is just as popular. Matches your criteria.

How is Austin a bad wrestler?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46rk8Cxf9Ts

Watch that.

catch24

08-03-2011, 12:08 AM

Lets see He is a bad wrestler like Austin and Rocky, Has good Mic Skills whether you want to admit it or not. Has a Large Fan base and is just as popular. Matches your criteria.

What Austin and "Rocky" didn't have in the ring (they were good Wrestlers anyway, not sure what you're talking about) they made up for it with their mic skills, PPV draws and popularity. You could probably say the same for Cena, but to the degree those two did it in? Not even close.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:12 AM

catch24

08-03-2011, 12:14 AM

Sadly Cena is just as Popular, selling merchandise with ease and has a huge fan base. I can show you a video of Cena having a good match does that mean he is a good wrestler?
Austin and Rock are great performers. But as wrestlers they are decent at best, if you take there wrestling ability away, then they are GOAT.

Look at the stats BlackJoker provided. Cena hasn't come close to PPV draws like that. He isn't as popular as those guys; not even close really (without his "hood" gimmick, he's almost unwatchable). How long have you been watching wrestling, for real? Cena gets boo'd as a face :oldlol:

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:15 AM

How is Austin a bad wrestler?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46rk8Cxf9Ts

Watch that.
Angle put so much work into that match and does not get enough credit, all Austin did was lay some punches and throw him around, such an amazing wrestler. :rolleyes:
Without Angle it would not have been a great match.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:18 AM

Look at the stats BlackJoker provided. Cena hasn't come close to PPV draws like that. He really isn't as popular as those guys; not even close really (without his "hood" gimmick, he's almost unwatchable). How long have you been watching wrestling, for real? Cena gets boo'd as a face :oldlol:
Put the Rock and Austin in the PG era without there ability to do the shit they could in the attitude era, and the writing they book now the ratings wont be much of a difference. Im not a fan of Cena. But if your gonna say Austin and Rock are good wrestlers then I guess Cena is to. Cena does get booed but you still cant take away from the fact that so many people like Cena, mostly Women and kids but they are still a fanbase.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:20 AM

Angle put so much work into that match and does not get enough credit, all Austin did was lay some punches and throw him around, such an amazing wrestler. :rolleyes:
Without Angle it would not have been a great match.

Well obviously, Austin would have been wrestling himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9OaJd_67zg

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:21 AM

catch24

08-03-2011, 12:22 AM

Put the Rock and Austin in the PG era without there ability to do the shit they could in the attitude era, and the writing they book now the ratings wont be much of a difference. Im not a fan of Cena. But if your gonna say Austin and Rock are good wrestlers then I guess Cena is to. Cena does get booed but you still cant take away from the fact that so many people like Cena, mostly Women and kids but they are still a fanbase.

Wow, what a compelling argument!

Put Cena in the attitude era and he'd be more stale than he already is.

Those two were immensely better wrestlers than Cena. Watch a few YT clips; the comparison between the two as pure wrestlers is a joke. Cena doesn't sell nor did he transcend the business like those two did.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:22 AM

Well obviously, Austin would have been wrestling himself.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P9OaJd_67zg
Basically Angle carried him, does that not make sense?
I do believe Austin was a great performer, but not a great wrestler.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:23 AM

Wow, what a compelling argument!

Put Cena in the attitude era and he'd be more stale than he already is.

Those two were immensely better wrestlers than Cena. Watch a few YT clips; the comparison between the two as pure wrestlers is a joke. Cena doesn't sell nor did he transcend the business like those two did.
Cena is just as bad as a wrestler as Austin and Rock.
If Cena was booked like Rocky and Austin was back then, then he would be ten times better than he is now.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:25 AM

Cena is a good wrestler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi7t0b9zRnY
This is a Joke Right? :facepalm :roll: Good one.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:27 AM

This is a Joke Right? :facepalm :roll: Good one.

How does a bad wrestler, have a great wrestling match? Cena has had quite a few. Just because a guy isn't Benoit doesn't mean that he isn't a good wrestler.

Then again, you think that Kurt Angle is Top 5 so it doesn't really matter what you think. :lol

catch24

08-03-2011, 12:27 AM

Cena is just as bad as a wrestler as Austin and Rock.
If Cena was booked like Rocky and Austin was back then, then he would be ten times better than he is now.

No, he's even worse. List his skills, and I'll do the same for Austin and the Rock.

If Cena was placed in the attitude ERA, he'd be carrying both the Rock and Austin's bags.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:29 AM

How does a bad wrestler, have a great wrestling match? Cena has had quite a few. Just because a guy isn't Benoit doesn't mean that he isn't a good wrestler.

Then again, you think that Kurt Angle is Top 5 so it doesn't really matter what you think. :lol
Angle as a wrestler > Rocky, Austin and Cena its not even close to funny.
Aside from wrestling Rock and Austin are better but Pure Wrestling ability Angle is Greater, do you know the word WRESTLING?

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:30 AM

No, he's even worse. List his skills, and I'll do the same for Austin and the Rock.

If Cena was placed in the attitude ERA, he'd be carrying both the Rock and Austin's bags.

Cena would fit in during the Attitude era. He wouldn't be as big as he is in this era, but he'd be decent. You can't be THAT over and have no talent. Unless your name is Jeff Hardy.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:31 AM

No, he's even worse. List his skills, and I'll do the same for Austin and the Rock.

If Cena was placed in the attitude ERA, he'd be carrying both the Rock and Austin's bags.
What skills? The only thing that Cenas Has is Mic Skills and and Popularity( The Ability to sell Mercahndise) .

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:31 AM

Angle as a wrestler > Rocky, Austin and Cena its not even close to funny.
Aside from wrestling Rock and Austin are better but Pure Wrestling ability Angle is Greater, do you know the word WRESTLING?

Angle is a glorified spot monkey. His WWE stuff was pretty good, but without superior workers (Austin, HHH, Benoit, Taker) to keep him in line he's ****ing terrible. His TNA work makes my eyes bleed. The only tolerable stuff he did was with Desmond Wolfe. You know, a guy who's much better than him.

catch24

08-03-2011, 12:32 AM

Cena would fit in during the Attitude era. He wouldn't be as big as he is in this era, but he'd be decent. You can't be THAT over and have no talent. Unless your name is Jeff Hardy.

That's all I'm saying. Obviously he'd compete, but to say he'd be 10x better than he already is or that he'd be just as popular as Austin? :lol

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:33 AM

Angle is a glorified spot monkey. His WWE stuff was pretty good, but without superior workers (Austin, HHH, Benoit, Taker) to keep him in line he's ****ing terrible. His TNA work makes my eyes bleed. The only tolerable stuff he did was with Desmond Wolfe. You know, a guy who's much better than him.
How old is the Guy? Do you expect him to put on 5 * Matches at his age and Injuries? And what are you talking about him being garbage without good workers? In most of his matches he caries his opponents.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:35 AM

That's all I'm saying. Obviously he'd compete, but to say he'd be 10x better than he already is or that he'd be just as popular as Austin? :lol
He is already Popular in a PG type ERA. Book him the way Rocky and Austin had their own Charisma and style he could be even better than he is now.

catch24

08-03-2011, 12:35 AM

What skills? The only thing that Cenas Has is Mic Skills and and Popularity( The Ability to sell Mercahndise) .

You said he is just as bad as both the Rock and Austin. Prove it. What doesn't Austin do as a technical wrestler to be considered better than Cena?

Cena doesn't have the Mic skills or Popularity those two have. Read up on the statistics posted.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:36 AM

How old is the Guy? Do you expect him to put on 5 * Matches at his age and Injuries? And what are you talking about him being garbage without good workers? In most of his matches he caries his opponents.

No he doesn't. He just wrestles a guy a little, then goes on a 10 minute stretch of counters and reversals, ankle locks and Angle Slams. He has no psychology and over a decade into his career still can't work a match. I like Angle, but he's not a great worker. He sucks. He's closer to The Rock than he is to Benoit.

Why don't you just escape Kurt? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY3L3cuNROY)

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:37 AM

No he doesn't. He just wrestles a guy a little, then goes on a 10 minute stretch of counters and reversals, ankle locks and Angle Slams. He has no psychology and over a decade into his career still can't work a match. I like Angle, but he's not a great worker. He sucks. He's closer to The Rock than he is to Benoit.

Why don't you just escape Kurt? (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sY3L3cuNROY)
You will get roasted if you post this on a wrestling forum.

catch24

08-03-2011, 12:37 AM

He is already Popular in a PG type ERA. Book him the way Rocky and Austin had their own Charisma and style he could be even better than he is now.

His stale personality and gimmick, or lack there of, already has him being booed as a FACE, in the PG ERA. He'd get trash thrown at him competing with the Rock and Austin during the Attitude years.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:38 AM

You said he is just as bad as both the Rock and Austin. Prove it. What doesn't Austin do as a technical wrestler to be considered better than Cena?

Cena doesn't have the Mic skills or Popularity those two have. Read up on the statistics posted.
Never said that. Im talking based on PURE WRESTLING ABILITY.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:39 AM

You will get roasted if you post this on a wrestling forum.

:oldlol: No I wouldn't, most people realized that he isn't very good once he jumped ship. Don't be upset that you're behind.

You're such a typical fan. Batista sucks too, right?

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:40 AM

His stale personality and gimmick, or lack there of, already has him being booed as a FACE, in the PG ERA. He'd get trash thrown at him competing with the Rock and Austin during the Attitude years.
In this PG ERA he is forced to do some Corny stuff.
In the A Era the doors would be open to say and do certain things you cant in the PG Era. Im not saying Cena is as good as Austin or Rock but without the charisma and/or Mic Skills The Rock and Stone Cold would be nothing.

BoogieWoogieMan

08-03-2011, 12:40 AM

Cena is a good wrestler.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi7t0b9zRnY

Just finished watching that and I can't admit to say that Cena actually had a good match. :oldlol:

catch24

08-03-2011, 12:41 AM

Never said that. Im talking based on PURE WRESTLING ABILITY.

Again, post some examples of Cena's "wrestling abilities" being on par with the Rock and Austin's. I'll wait.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:42 AM

:oldlol: No I wouldn't, most people realized that he isn't very good once he jumped ship. Don't be upset that you're behind.

You're such a typical fan. Batista sucks too, right?
Hes decent at best.
How bout you sign up at wrestlingforums.com and Post that angle has to be carried in a match and cannot wrestle. He won gold olympic Medals with a broken Neck.

catch24

08-03-2011, 12:42 AM

In this PG ERA he is forced to do some Corny stuff.

What other gimmick would he be using during that ERA, while being successful?

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:42 AM

Just finished watching that and I can't admit to say that Cena actually had a good match. :oldlol:

He's had quite a few. People get stuck on the fact that he doesn't do a lot of moves. He knows how to wrestle though. His selling does suck though, I'll give his haters that.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:43 AM

Again, post some examples of Cena's "wrestling abilities" being on par with the Rock and Austin's. I'll wait.
Fine i jumped the gun there I'll admit that but Austin and Rock moveset is just as small as Cena's and they are not to far from Cena in Pure Wrestling Ability.

BoogieWoogieMan

08-03-2011, 12:44 AM

Hes decent at best.
How bout you sign up at wrestlingforums.com and Post that angle has to be carried in a match and cannot wrestle. He won gold olympic Medals with a broken Neck.

Austin wrestled with a broken neck from 97 and onwards, practically the entire Attitude era and helped WWF defeat WCW in the Monday Night Wars.

that's pretty damn impressive and one of the reason why his wrestling skills went down the hill.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:44 AM

Hes decent at best.
How bout you sign up at wrestlingforums.com and Post that angle has to be carried in a match and cannot wrestle. He won gold olympic Medals with a broken Neck.

And that relates to Pro wrestling how exactly? I'm not saying he needs to be carried or is the worst wrestler in the world but he needs a guy who's better than him to make up for what he lacks. Show me a great match that he's had with a below average worker.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:45 AM

He's had quite a few. People get stuck on the fact that he doesn't do a lot of moves. He knows how to wrestle though. His selling does suck though, I'll give his haters that.
Yes and Hornswoggle can wrestle to :roll:

catch24

08-03-2011, 12:46 AM

Fine i jumped the gun there I'll admit that but Austin and Rock moveset is just as small as Cena's and they are not to far from Cena in Pure Wrestling Ability.

I totally disagree with their "movesets" being equally as small, but I will agree that they aren't too far off in "Wrestling ability". More so The Rock and Cena than Austin.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:46 AM

Fine i jumped the gun there I'll admit that but Austin and Rock moveset is just as small as Cena's and they are not to far from Cena in Pure Wrestling Ability.

Austin > Cena > The Rock when it comes to wrestling ability. Move sets are such a stupid way to judge guys and it's a sign that you don't know what you're talking about. Ricky Steamboat did like 4 moves and he'd wipe the floor with 99% of guys.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:48 AM

Yes and Hornswoggle can wrestle to :roll:

Explain to me how a guy who can't wrestle has had many great wrestling matches? Does not compute.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:48 AM

Yea Austin Broke his Neck and was never the same, Angle broke his and was still good. Come on Guys Austin is Better than Angle But PURE WRESTLING WISE No :lol

catch24

08-03-2011, 12:49 AM

Austin > Cena > The Rock when it comes to wrestling ability. Move sets are such a stupid way to judge guys and it's a sign that you don't know what you're talking about. Ricky Steamboat did like 4 moves and he'd wipe the floor with 99% of guys.

I certainly don't think they are the end-all-be-all, but they do play a part if you're debating versatility.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:51 AM

I certainly don't think they are the end-all-be-all, but they do play a part if you're debating versatility.

No it's doesn't. Davey Richards does a million moves every match and he sucks. Ricky Steamboat does four and he's awesome. It means nothing.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:52 AM

Austin > Cena > The Rock when it comes to wrestling ability. Move sets are such a stupid way to judge guys and it's a sign that you don't know what you're talking about. Ricky Steamboat did like 4 moves and he'd wipe the floor with 99% of guys.
Cant take you serious when you Say Cena is a good wrestler and Angle is not :facepalm .
And that last man Standing Match was more of a Brawl. You have no clue what Pure Wrestling is. Guys like Jericho, Angle, Beniot would dust Austin, Rock and Cena off easily.

catch24

08-03-2011, 12:53 AM

No it's doesn't. Davey Richards does a million moves every match and he sucks. Ricky Steamboat does four and he's awesome. It means nothing.

Bullshit

It may mean nothing in the WWE where the outcome is pretermined, but gauging a wrestlers technical skillset is no different than doing it with NBA players. Saying skillsets don't matter is fundamentally stupid.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:55 AM

Cant take you serious when you Say Cena is a good wrestler and Angle is not :facepalm .
And that last man Standing Match was more of a Brawl. You have no clue what Pure Wrestling is. Guys like Jericho, Angle, Beniot would dust Austin, Rock and Cena off easily.

There's different styles in wrestling. Just because a guy brawls, doesn't mean he can't wrestle. HBK isn't a "pure wrestler" as you call it, does he suck too?

http://sportingeye.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/bruiserbrody.jpg
You brawl, you suck man!

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0307/3432/rey-mysterio-rey-mysterio-29937_crop_340x234.jpg
You fly, you suck too!

Do more submissions and reversals you guys! You can't wrestle! /Stupidity.

Dean Malenko is better than The Undertaker because he's pure you guys.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:55 AM

Bullshit

It may mean nothing in the WWE where the outcome is pretermined, but gauging a wrestlers technical skillset is no different than doing it with NBA players. Saying skillsets don't matter is fundamentally stupid.
Cena started off Technical so Did Austin. And I think Knicks101 or whatever his name is knows nothing about Pure Wrestling.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 12:56 AM

There's different styles in wrestling. Just because a guy brawls, doesn't mean he can't wrestle. HBK isn't a "pure wrestler" as you call it, does he suck too?

http://sportingeye.files.wordpress.com/2010/01/bruiserbrody.jpg
You brawl, you suck man!

http://cdn.bleacherreport.com/images_root/image_pictures/0307/3432/rey-mysterio-rey-mysterio-29937_crop_340x234.jpg
You fly, you suck too!

Do more submissions and reversals you guys! You can't wrestle! /Stupidity.

Dean Malenko is better than The Undertaker because he's pure you guys.
As in Brawler I Mean when all you do is throw Punches and Kicks, does that count as wrestling?

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:57 AM

Bullshit

It may mean nothing in the WWE where the outcome is pretermined, but gauging a wrestlers technical skillset is no different than doing it with NBA players. Saying skillsets don't matter is fundamentally stupid.

A move is not a skill. The guys with the nicest moves are the best wrestlers? Damn, Petey Williams is the G.O.A.T. /thread

Skywalker

08-03-2011, 12:57 AM

Kurt Angle was pretty fckin funny back in the day, and no doubt he was legit in the ring

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pTkK7gL8lTo

example of a segment where kurt is hilarious without trying to do any lame jokes

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:58 AM

Cena started off Technical so Did Austin. And I think Knicks101 or whatever his name is knows nothing about Pure Wrestling.

Explain it to me, what's "Pure Wrestling". I was under the impression that the accepted term was "Technical Wrestling" but please enlighten me.

Patrick Chewing

08-03-2011, 12:59 AM

I mean it's quite simple:

http://www.wrestlescoop.com/wallpaper/wwe_legends/images/hogan_wallpaper_02.jpg

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 12:59 AM

As in Brawler I Mean when all you do is throw Punches and Kicks, does that count as wrestling?

Yeah. In MMA is a guy whose style is more submission based better than a guy whose style is more striking based? No, there's different styles. Wrestling is no different.

catch24

08-03-2011, 01:01 AM

A move is not a skill. The guys with the nicest moves are the best wrestlers? Damn, Petey Williams is the G.O.A.T. /thread

So skills don't matter or just moves? Because you definitely have to have some sort of skill(s) to compete and/or make the business.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 01:02 AM

Yeah. In MMA is a guy whose style is more submission based better than a guy whose style is more striking based? No, there's different styles. Wrestling is no different.
You want to learn what wrestling is? Look up Angle, im done.

catch24

08-03-2011, 01:02 AM

Cena started off Technical so Did Austin. And I think Knicks101 or whatever his name is knows nothing about Pure Wrestling.

Which is why they're both good wrestlers. Both more technical than the Rock.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 01:02 AM

So skills don't matter or just moves? Because you definitely have to have some sort of skill(s) to compete and/or make the business.

Skills matter. Being able to do a move isn't a skill. Anybody can do a move. You could probably powerbomb me if I felt like cooperating. It doesn't take talent. If we're talking about having every move look perfect that's a different story.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 01:03 AM

BTW I think Rock is GOAT But wrestling wise he is not that good.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 01:04 AM

You want to learn what wrestling is? Look up Angle, im done.

In other words, you were talking out of your ass and have nothing to say to back up your argument. Typical.

catch24

08-03-2011, 01:06 AM

Skills matter. Being able to do a move isn't a skill. Anybody can do a move. You could probably powerbomb me if I felt like cooperating. It doesn't take talent. If we're talking about having every move look perfect that's a different story.

Agreed. I thought D12 was referring to skill-sets when he said "moves sets". Dunno.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 01:07 AM

Damn Kurt, thought you were hurt so badly. It's amazing that you managed to get up and run full speed like nothing had ever happened (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JcoWvxbYTMs)

And that's why Kurt Angle sucks.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 01:07 AM

In other words, you were talking out of your ass and have nothing to say to back up your argument. Typical.
Pure Wrestling is having Grappling type Moves, Take-downs, Holds, various Pin Types ETC.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 01:08 AM

Change my mind, Kurt Angle Rules!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKVZDIkpRKs&feature=related)

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 01:08 AM

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 01:08 AM

Pure Wrestling is having Grappling type Moves, Take-downs, Holds, various Pin Types ETC.

Yeah, Cena doesn't do any of that. Neither did Austin. :rolleyes:

Seriously, why do people talk out of their asses like this? I clearly know more about this than you, why even bother?

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 01:09 AM

Change my mind, Kurt Angle Rules!!! (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bKVZDIkpRKs&feature=related)
I LOL'd and now you have to be able to hit a 450 to be Great, I guess Justin gabriel is better than The Rock and Austin.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 01:09 AM

Wrestling is Fake Kid? :roll: Is this serious?

The idea is to make it look real. :hammerhead:

I'd much prefer if everybody wrestled like Tom Magee (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P4zYfaTBLk0)

It's fake anyway. :bowdown:

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 01:11 AM

I LOL'd and now you have to be able to hit a 450 to be Great, I guess Justin gabriel is better than The Rock and Austin.

You don't, but why try it if you can't do it? He just decided mid match it would be a good idea? Could you see Benoit doing something like that? No, you couldn't because he's good and Angle is not.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 01:11 AM

Yeah, Cena doesn't do any of that. Neither did Austin. :rolleyes:

Seriously, why do people talk out of their asses like this? I clearly know more about this than you, why even bother?
You may want to look at austins moveset again, and a you cant see me arent pure wrestling Moves something you need to learn..

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 01:12 AM

You don't, but why try it if you can't do it? He just decided mid match it would be a good idea? Could you see Benoit doing something like that? No, you couldn't because he's good and Angle is not.
Im done, Angle is not a good wrestler but Austin and the Rock and Cena are? :facepalm
And how are you gonna be considered GOAT when you dont take career ending Risks like Angle does.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 01:13 AM

You may want to look at austins moveset again, and a you cant see me arent pure wrestling Moves something you need to learn..

Just give it a rest. You have no idea what you're talking about. For the sake of the argument.

As "Stone Cold" Steve Austin
Back body drop[61]
Boston crab[61]
Catapult[61]
Clothesline[61]
Leapfrog body guillotine to an opponent draped over the second rope[61]
Mudhole Stomp (Multiple stomps to the chest of a seated opponent in a corner, followed by the middle finger gesture to the opponent and finished with a final stomp)[61]
Pointed elbow drop,[61] sometimes from the second or top rope[61]
Sleeper hold[61]
Spinebuster[61]
Stomp to the opponent's groin[61]
STF[61]
Suplex
Superplex
Texas piledriver[61]
Thesz press[61] followed by multiple punches

None of those are "pure wrestling moves". Go to sleep, it's getting late.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 01:15 AM

Im done, Angle is not a good wrestler but Austin and the Rock and Cena are? :facepalm
And how are you gonna be considered GOAT when you dont take career ending Risks like Angle does.

Angle is slightly above average like The Rock and Cena are. He does way dumber shit than they do though so he's a lower than them.

:oldlol: Seriously, go to sleep. You're getting fussy.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 01:16 AM

Just give it a rest. You have no idea what you're talking about. For the sake of the argument.

As "Stone Cold" Steve Austin
Back body drop[61]
Boston crab[61]
Catapult[61]
Clothesline[61]
Leapfrog body guillotine to an opponent draped over the second rope[61]
Mudhole Stomp (Multiple stomps to the chest of a seated opponent in a corner, followed by the middle finger gesture to the opponent and finished with a final stomp)[61]
Pointed elbow drop,[61] sometimes from the second or top rope[61]
Sleeper hold[61]
Spinebuster[61]
Stomp to the opponent's groin[61]
STF[61]
Suplex
Superplex
Texas piledriver[61]
Thesz press[61] followed by multiple punches

None of those are "pure wrestling moves". Go to sleep, it's getting late.
And yet he only used like 7 of those, I could name 100 moves Jericho does.
Im got to rest I got a tourney tomorrow.

catch24

08-03-2011, 01:17 AM

Just give it a rest. You have no idea what you're talking about. For the sake of the argument.

As "Stone Cold" Steve Austin
Back body drop[61]
Boston crab[61]
Catapult[61]
Clothesline[61]
Leapfrog body guillotine to an opponent draped over the second rope[61]
Mudhole Stomp (Multiple stomps to the chest of a seated opponent in a corner, followed by the middle finger gesture to the opponent and finished with a final stomp)[61]
Pointed elbow drop,[61] sometimes from the second or top rope[61]
Sleeper hold[61]
Spinebuster[61]
Stomp to the opponent's groin[61]
STF[61]
Suplex
Superplex
Texas piledriver[61]
Thesz press[61] followed by multiple punches

None of those are "pure wrestling moves". Go to sleep, it's getting late.

To be fair, a suplex (or suplay) would be considered a "pure wrestling move"

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suplex

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 01:18 AM

And yet he only used like 7 of those, I could name 100 moves Jericho does.
Im got to rest I got a tourney tomorrow.

Name them. You can do it tomorrow. I don't mind.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 01:26 AM

Name them. You can do it tomorrow. I don't mind.
My last post, I would not want to embarrass you bro. Nor do i want to take up the whole page but if you insist tomorrow ill be back for round 2 :)

Samurai Swoosh

08-03-2011, 03:00 AM

LMAO @ these wrestle dorks or "purists" ...

Like they don't even understand the concept of PRO wrestling.

It's about characters, charisma, flamboyance aka ENTERTAINMENT.

These clowns mentioning people who could "carry" mid-carders in "technical wrestling"

Honestly, no one outside of a minority care about that crap.

It's a predetermined sport. No one makes a match more or less convincing. Everyone knows, or should know its fake as hell.

It's about the entertainment outside the ring, that sells people on the product. The build up. The shennanigans. Honestly, once the match starts ... even those being claimed as the best "technical" wrestlers ... it clearly follows a very STRICT eb and flow script.

I watched wrestling so much from 1998 - 2003, I can watch one match and based off the scripted BEATS of the performance I can tell who is going to win and who is going to lose. Before the "outcome" is even decided.

:oldlol:

The Rock is the greatest. Easily. Entertainment people ... entertainment.

Jackass18

08-03-2011, 03:06 AM

How is Austin a bad wrestler?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=46rk8Cxf9Ts

Watch that.

His moveset consisted of punch, kick, suplex, and stunner. It's not a good thing when 95% of your moves are either punches, kicks, or throwing your opponent into the ring post.

Move sets are such a stupid way to judge guys and it's a sign that you don't know what you're talking about. Ricky Steamboat did like 4 moves and he'd wipe the floor with 99% of guys.

Now you're just making shit up.

Dean Malenko is better than The Undertaker because he's pure you guys.

Malenko was better a wrestler than The Undertaker, but The Undertaker was far more entertaining.

Jackass18

08-03-2011, 03:11 AM

bdreason

08-03-2011, 03:47 AM

You guys are arguing both extremes while it's really a balance.

Certain pro wrestlers are more skilled and physically talented than others, making their matches more entertaining and spectacular to certain fans. Other wrestlers have a great image, or great mic skills, or lots of charisma, making the more entertaining to other fans.

The great pro wrestlers have a combination of both.

If we're trying to rank pro wrestlers, I think we need to look beyond personal preference, and look at who really had the most effect on both society and the 'sport' itself.

For me, that means that the pioneers of the sport, who really took the pro wrestling to the mainstream have to receive the most credit. Guys like Hulk Hogan and Macho Man (and more) put pro wrestling on the map, and made it multi-million dollar industry. That's no disrespect to guys like The Rock and Stone Cold, because it could be argued those guys saved the 'sport' as well during their reign.

Also, the people claiming pro wrestling isn't real, must have no idea the kind of pain these guys go through on tour performing their 'fake' moves. Obviously the outcomes are staged, and the moves are choreographed, but some of the shit these guys do is impressive as ****, and they take a beating doing shows from week to week, town to town. I haven't been a fan of pro wrestling in years, but I can still respect the physical skills of the 'sport'.

kentatm

08-03-2011, 04:16 AM

http://joemontanasrightarm.files.wordpress.com/2011/02/mega-powers.jpg

The formation of the Mega Powers (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5pqgJTLw06g)

vs The MegaBucks - Andre the Giant and Ted DiBiase (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I32KPBgdniw)

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 08:35 AM

His moveset consisted of punch, kick, suplex, and stunner. It's not a good thing when 95% of your moves are either punches, kicks, or throwing your opponent into the ring post.

Now you're just making shit up.

Malenko was better a wrestler than The Undertaker, but The Undertaker was far more entertaining.

Have you ever watched Steamboat? Let me know what all these moves he did were. Everything I've seen has been chops, arm drags and the diving cross body. Of course he did a few other things, but those are his "signature moves".

Dick Murdoch didn't do shit either, and he's considered to be one of the best workers ever.

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 08:48 AM

People are entertained by different things. It's really rather dumb to say that "purists" don't understand the concept of pro wrestling. Some people prefer different things than just charisma, personality and mic skills. If a guy can't tell a story in the ring with his wrestling, then why should anyone care about the match? It's not about which wrestlers give you boners as you seem to indicate.

The funny thing is Swoosh seems to think he's the majority and he's in the minority. Most wrestling fans like to watch good wrestling and not just see who can cut the best promos and is the funniest. Swoosh is just an Attitude Era fan who has never watched anything outside of that and thinks that everybody else is the same as him. If realism didn't matter, everybody would wrestle like Davey Richards or Jack Evans and just do a bunch of flips or cool looking moves for no reason and everybody would be bored.

JohnnySic

08-03-2011, 09:09 AM

It's about entertainment.

Not "technical" skills in a fake athletic competition.
I'm more entertained by a well executed wrestling match featuring technical skill more so than gimmicks, promos, and clever catch fraises.

Samurai Swoosh

08-03-2011, 09:12 AM

Swoosh is just an Attitude Era fan who has never watched anything outside of that and thinks that everybody else is the same as him.
Guilty as charged.

:(

JohnnySic

08-03-2011, 09:15 AM

Swoosh is just an Attitude Era fan who has never watched anything outside of that and thinks that everybody else is the same as him.
Yup.

Imo the Attitude Era is way overrated and wistfully remembered through rose-colored glasses. Really, it boils down to the breakthrough mainstream popularity of Stone Cold and The Rock. Take those 2 away, and how much is left? Most of the storylines and characters sucked. There's a reason why ratings started to nosedive after the midpoint of '01 (once the shine wore off), and why the WWE started to rely more and more on actual wrestlers like Benoit, Guerrero, Angle, and so on, and phased out the "characters".

Knicks101

08-03-2011, 09:20 AM

Yup.

Imo the Attitude Era is way overrated and wistfully remembered through rose-colored glasses. Really, it boils down to the breakthrough mainstream popularity of Stone Cold and The Rock. Take those 2 away, and how much is left? Most of the storylines and characters sucked. There's a reason why ratings started to nosedive after the midpoint of '01 (once the shine wore off), and why the WWE started to rely more and more on actual wrestlers like Benoit, Guerrero, Angle, and so on, and phased out the "characters".

Nah, the actual wrestling wasn't very good, but it was a pretty good era. You had a great mid-card, a tag team division. It really was a great period storyline wise. Unlike today, almost everybody had something to do. You're a WCW guy though, so I can see why you don't care for it.

Lebron23

08-03-2011, 09:27 AM

I think Kurt Angle is the perfect wrestler. Great on the microphone, and great on the ring.

Samurai Swoosh

08-03-2011, 09:31 AM

Imo the Attitude Era is way overrated
It's pretty much the most profitable, and most popular time period ever in wrestling.

:oldlol:

Really, it boils down to the breakthrough mainstream popularity of Stone Cold and The Rock.
2 arguable GOATs ...

Take those 2 away, and how much is left?
DX
Triple H
Mankind
Undertaker
Kane
Kurt Angle
Brock Lesnar
Eddie Guerrero

And countless others.

Most of the storylines and characters sucked.
:oldlol:

This from the WCW, guy ...

There's a reason why ratings started to nosedive after the midpoint of '01
Yea it's called major injuries to Stone Cold (his career was almost over by this point)

The Rock left to start what would become a new career.

Triple H tore a muscle and was out for close to a whole calander year.

You have got to be kidding me ...

1997 - 2001?

That's 4 years.

It started to slow down with the botched Invasion angle.

Lakerlove420

08-03-2011, 09:41 AM

http://down-for-the-count.webs.com/photos/History-of-the-WWE-Championship/ultimate.png

http://www.wrestlingvalley.org/wp-content/uploads/6260/6260.jpg

http://www.prosportsinvestments.com/images/products/warriorhogan1180463266.jpg

my favorite was always Hulk Hogan ..
but the most exciting wrestler in the WWF at the time
(other than Hulk Hogan) was The Ultimate Warrior.

Hulk is and will always be the best.. He is the G.O.A.T.
He is the MJ of the whole WWF .. .

(bushwackers were cool too . .:lol
just for a little funny. .
http://www.lat34.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/09/bushwackers.jpg
http://www.oklafan.com/image/bank/bushwackers.jpg
http://cdn2-b.examiner.com/sites/default/files/styles/large/hash/80/ff/bushwackers.jpg

yeah man.. I remember those days.. I guess it was the 90's:confusedshrug:
I didn't really read this thread and I haven't watched wrestling
for many years so I don't know who is who now days ..
but Hulk and these guys ruled the game back then.. I even went once ..
it was awesome I got to see my favorite wrestler (was the current champ)
Hulk Hogan go against Mr. Perfect in the main event..
Clever how Mr. Perfect got to keep his perfect record and at the same time
Hulk didn't lose his Championship Belt because he ended up
losing by a count-out (got knocked out outside of the ring) or something and not a pin.
So Perfect won by default but didn't become champion ..
But man.. I saw a bunch of great ones that night...

Jake "The Snake" Roberts
Brutus "The Barber" Beefcake
Jimmy "Superfly" Snuka
The Bushwackers
So many others I kinda forget .. It was larger than life to me at the time ..

JohnnySic

08-03-2011, 09:52 AM

Yea it's called major injuries to Stone Cold (his career was almost over by this point)

The Rock left to start what would become a new career.

Triple H tore a muscle and was out for close to a whole calander year.

You have got to be kidding me ...

1997 - 2001?

That's 4 years.

It started to slow down with the botched Invasion angle.

WWE lost money in '97 and made only a modest profit in '98. They had their hot run in '99-'01 after WCW went to hell in a handbasket.

The reason the Attitude Era started to slow down was that all the casual fans (not the real wrestling fans) that flocked to it during its hot run got their fill and moved on to other things. It was a "show" and once the show ran its shelf life, it wound down.

One can argue that, in the long run, the AE did more harm than good. Although very popular for a time, its raunchy nature also drove many people away from wrestling for good. There's a reason that the WWE today is basically falling over itself to be PG, even to the point of calling itself an "action soap opera", and why cummulative ratings for WWE and TNA are lower today than WWE/WCW in '95 (when wrestling was at its prior low point). Collateral damage.

Vince McMahon himself never liked the AE, he saw it as a passing phase, a necessary evil to beat WCW. McMahon hates wrestling marks (who are hard to please) and would rather market to kids, who will root for whatever faces he creats (Cena) and boo whatever heels, and have their parents buy lots of murchandise.

D12"Magic"

08-03-2011, 09:18 PM

To long to post so heres the link to 1004 moves of Jericho
http://olympia.fortunecity.com/undertaker/1001/1004moves.html

rodman91

08-03-2011, 10:07 PM

GOAT is Hogan.

But my favorite was/is Kevin Nash aka Diesel.
http://www.fashionshowz.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/02/diesel-wwe-legend-sports-fashion-6.jpg

B-Low

08-03-2011, 11:26 PM

To long to post so heres the link to 1004 moves of Jericho
http://olympia.fortunecity.com/undertaker/1001/1004moves.html

:roll:

Funniest wrestling promo of all time

I love how he basically makes a list, then doubles it by adding "Jericho" in front of the move.

"Dropkick"
"Jericho Dropkick"
"Right Arm Bar"
"Jericho Right Arm Bar"
"Left Arm Bar"
"Jericho Left Arm Bar"
"Leg Drop"
"Jericho Leg Drop"

D12"Magic"

08-04-2011, 01:36 AM

:roll:

Funniest wrestling promo of all time

I love how he basically makes a list, then doubles it by adding "Jericho" in front of the move.

"Dropkick"
"Jericho Dropkick"
"Right Arm Bar"
"Jericho Right Arm Bar"
"Left Arm Bar"
"Jericho Left Arm Bar"
"Leg Drop"
"Jericho Leg Drop"
:roll:
Still a great wrestler

paperstreet

08-04-2011, 02:26 AM

this has been a lot of fun to read through....

there are 4 answers to me.
Hogan, Flair, Austin, Rock

Austin and rock don't have a lot of longevity. I give austin the edge as the driving force of the attitude era.
hogan is hard to call the goat because of politics and being shoved down our throats.
leaves me with flair. great long career. he's my choice even if i have never been a huge fan

Jackass18

08-04-2011, 04:17 AM

Have you ever watched Steamboat? Let me know what all these moves he did were. Everything I've seen has been chops, arm drags and the diving cross body. Of course he did a few other things, but those are his "signature moves".

Dick Murdoch didn't do shit either, and he's considered to be one of the best workers ever.

I think it comes down to people having differing opinions on things. Some wrestlers can do well with a brawler style while others seem to come off as lazy, half-assed and/or repetitive. And, of course I've seen Steamboat wrestle. He was one of my favs when I was a little kid.

All things considered, I'd go with Ric Flair as the GOAT.

Knicks101

08-04-2011, 09:12 AM

I think it comes down to people having differing opinions on things. Some wrestlers can do well with a brawler style while others seem to come off as lazy, half-assed and/or repetitive. And, of course I've seen Steamboat wrestle. He was one of my favs when I was a little kid.

All things considered, I'd go with Ric Flair as the GOAT.

Ric Flair's a good choice. Only problem with him was I don't think he was a draw in the way Austin, The Rock and Hogan were. He's arguably more talented than all of them though.

Lebron23

08-04-2011, 10:25 AM

Razor Ramon could have been in the same level as the Rock and Steve Austin if he had stayed in the WWE during the Attitude Era. He's one of the most memorable characters in WWE History.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2WZso8ny-Ps

pauk

08-04-2011, 10:32 AM

Are We Talking About ACTORS.......... Or Real Wrestlers?

pauk

08-04-2011, 10:39 AM

Actors. Problems? :confusedshrug:

big problems....

i was thinking more about the real sport of wrestling.... not that acting.... its entertaining to some ppl but.. cmon...

pauk

08-04-2011, 10:48 AM

Whatever you say, sir. :blah

:banana:

Mamba

08-04-2011, 12:42 PM

i know your all saying attitude era, but watch this. this created attitude era the NWO was greatness.

everyone remembers hogan joining

but who remembers this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=koOJBTLXY-w&feature=related

B-Low

08-04-2011, 05:39 PM

big problems....

i was thinking more about the real sport of wrestling.... not that acting.... its entertaining to some ppl but.. cmon...

Yes because everyone knows a long list of actual wrestlers, or gives even the slightest damn about actual wrestling. That's why it gets primetime slots, because America loves real wrestling. And that's why it gets any coverage at all during the olympics, because people care. And that's why real wrestling sells out arenas that seat 60,000+, and doesn't struggle to fill up high school gyms, because it's such an entertaining spectacle. I'm sure that's really what you thought this thread was about. You weren't just trying to be a prick at all. And this post isn't sarcastic at all.