Random thoughts on the lockout / offseason:

[gigantes]

- first of all, it's been really hard to get into this topic with all the distractions going down. the debt crisis should be scary stuff for all of us considering how much the US dollar & economy is going to drastically plummet if the deal doesn't get done by tomorrow. not to mention the stock market & the global economy. there is really no segment of the population who won't suffer a huge beatdown if both houses of congress can't get this shit settled ASAP. (of course, this time tomorrow, everyone should be either breathing huge sighs of relief or reaching for their personal firearms)

- lawrence frank just got a four-year head coaching deal in detroit and i'm pleased. some have accused him of being too much of a perfectionist / drill sergeant, but i'm not sure how many of those people have considered the fact that he was an extremely young guy on his very first HC gig with the nets. really, it's almost impossible not to make mistakes under those conditions. and really, the people who put him down because he started 0-16 are living in a twilight zone. have they actually looked at the roster he was stuck with? battie, boone, dooling, CDR, harris, hassell, hayes, hump, lee, lopez, quinn, simmons, t-will, yi. individually, they all have an argument, but as a roster, they're quite hideous. as much as we all liked them individually... speaking for myself, at least.

- i still believe netsdaily is the best b-ball site that has ever existed. i mean, i go to to SI, foxsports and ESPN on a regular basis, yet they are typically reduced to vague articles about the NBA in general, while "net income" & crew provide consistent excellence about all things nets. and yea, it's much easier to do that when you're a team with the most advanced and expensive arena being built in sports history... but still, one gets the idea that NI would find interesting angles on a simple hotdog stand... even if prokhy's arena wasn't being built, after all. what i'm trying to say is- this level of reporting is amazing; maybe historic; and i'm not sure that any other team in the NBA has anything remotely like this...

more later, if i can manage it. i'm a bundle of nerves. props to the next person to post...

[D12"Magic"]

-I really think a Lockout is gonna hurt our chance at keeping Deron Williams.
Now it is starting to seem like Howard or Bust. If I was Deron I would Rather persuade Howard to the Nets then instead of playing with and aging Kobe and/or 2 ball dominant players who don''t know the word defense.

-I think soon where gonna half to image life without Deron, because there is a possibility he is gonna leave. We can build around Brooks and Lopez, but how long are we gonna wait for Lopez to break-out and what if the hype around Brooks fails? Plus we still will have Outlaw for 3 more years. Farmar as our starting guard. Now forget the Negatives, what if we build through the draft? if the lockout continues and there's no season we could end up with a top 8 pick if that's how the order is determined.

-Hump and Kim are getting married Aug. 20th, congrats to both.

[wang4three]

http://deadspin.com/5827351/the-orlando-magic-youth-basketball-camp-is-too-small-to-hold-all-of-stan-van-gundys-swag

Stan Van Gundy is a better dribbler than me.

[Nets fan 93]

Gotta agree with the Netsdaily.com mention. It is the only site I check about anything basketball besides this site of course. The writers are absolutely awesome and are not really that biased. Their info is always informative in general and always to the point.

Nice to see Lawrence Frank back in the league as a head coach. Seeing him as an assistant just didn't look right. Congrats to him.

This summer is such a change compared to last summer. You had the big time free agents in LeBron, Wade, Bosh, Amar'e, Johnson, Gay, Pierce, Dirk. This summer's Free agents hasnt even started YET! IDK about you guys but I look forward to player movement! So this summer has been a bummer in terms of my fan life haha.

Gilbert Arenas has gone crazy. He's probably always like that but if you pay attention to his twitter I guarantee you will be entertained.

Looking forward to see if Humphries is staying and how Brooks will fit in with the team we have.

[TheTank]

Hi guys!

Nets fan here. I became a fan when they drafted my boy KMart and became an even bigger fan when they brought Kidd over. On that note, I'm happy that Kidd finally has a chip.

I'm also happy to see Frank get another head coaching gig. I still remember his 12 (or was it 13) game winning streak for the Nets when he started.

[D12"Magic"]

:cheers: Welcome to the Forums

Hi guys!

Nets fan here. I became a fan when they drafted my boy KMart and became an even bigger fan when they brought Kidd over. On that note, I'm happy that Kidd finally has a chip.

I'm also happy to see Frank get another head coaching gig. I still remember his 12 (or was it 13) game winning streak for the Nets when he started.

[gigantes]

welcome, tank!


funny... i'm a bundle of nerves yet again & yet still posting again. this time i'm nervous because of the huge selling frenzy on the market, today. one might get the impression that i'm heavily in to the stock market, and one might be right. :S



re: d-will,
good points, above.

this is an issue i've been kind of ignorant and foolish about... specifically how much a lockout season would hurt our chances of keeping d-will. because of the fact that a lockout season would void the current season's contracts instead of extending them forward one year. so this is a killer in our situation with d-will.

and it's kind of heart-breaking considering what an awesome trade we made just months ago. one also applauded by 99% of the experts.

still, if there's one thing that i think goes in the nets favor, it's that we have heavily, heavily impressed the basketball world, the public, and the NBA with the new arena. that, and recently getting such a kick-ass, top-notch owner.

i mean, yea... under ratner and the old arena, why would deron have stayed? but with the current situation, and based upon what he seems to say / feel, d-will seems very supportive of the whole thing... and will perhaps give us extra chances to impress him that he wouldn't have given other franchises. i mean, he's not an idiot and he surely understands that the lockout has tied prokhy's hands for the moment.

at any rate, i remain positive until a gun-wielding maniac (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1y7VZ9BQxY) proves me otherwise! :P



at times it's still kind of hard to believe that the mavs really won, and that for most of us, our favorite PG in the league now has an NBA title as a starter at the advanced age of 38. furthermore, that a perennial playoff loser defeated a team with two of the top three players in the league on the roster.

AND / OR that some of the most likeable players in the league (kidd, tyson chicken, dirk, JET) beat a trio of dudes who talked legendary smack, flopped like mannequins (see the playoffs thread), and come across as incredible egomaniacs. although maybe i'm being too harsh on c-bosh, who actually seems like an honest and decent guy.

anyway, it's still quite astonishing and hard to fully believe, at least for me. the mavs finally, actually won the championship???

[D12"Magic"]

Its great to see Franchises be part of an exclusive list of Championship winners. Hopefully we will get there soon.

[Nets fan 93]

[QUOTE]Somewhere in academe there is a course in interpreting the music and lyrics of Jay-Z. If so, we can add two articles written Tuesday to the syllabus.

In his new album with Kanye West, "Watch the Throne", Jay-Z sings about how unphased he is by it all (and why not? He is married to Beyonce' and a fortune estimated at more than $300 million.) Among the lyrics:

Ball so hard, this s

[gigantes]

event: earlier this year, prokhorov heads up a friendly opposition party to vladimir putin.

my reaction: it's only to help out his buddy vladi and to get a small taste of formal politics. so... all good. good stuff and fun stuff. win-win, everyone's happy.



event: august 10th- prokhy goes after putin like he's suddenly serious about winning the prime minister's seat. (http://www.netsdaily.com/2011/8/10/2355491/prokhorov-goes-after-putin-party-accuses-it-of-dismantling-billboards)

my reaction: say whaaaaattttttt? are you fricken kidding me?? since when did this mild-mannered young rich guy think he could actually take on the dictator of russia... the butcher of moscow? if this isn't a publicity stunt then prokhy is suddenly feeling suicidal and in immediate need of speed and prozac...!

nah... can't really be true.

but i loved NI's response to another fan shitting bricks on this: "what's the matter? you don

[gigantes]

on ND, someone young and silly was saying 'brooklyn nets will be the first pro sports team in brooklyn".

but credit big mike (http://www.sbnation.com/users/M%20I%20K%20E) for doing some actual research on the matter. allow me to run with the ball:


brooklyn dodgers, 1883 - 1957. first baseball team to field a black player, jackie robinson, who was also a star player without doubt. side note: it seems my grandfather was a personal friend with the guy who hired jackie, general manager branch rickey. all that's left are some pics- wish i would have known about all this before my grandpa died.
http://www.tvworthwatching.com/werts/brooklyn%20dodgers%20hbo.jpg


brooklyn dodgers / brooklyn tigers of the NFL, 1930 - 1944. played at ebbets field. apparently WWII killed their roster and star players, and they never recovered.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/58/BrooklynTigers45.png


brooklyn kings, 1999 - 2007 in the USBL. i've barely heard about the USBL, but i guess it was some kind of pro bball league. props for surviving in the stern era for almost a decade, i guess.
http://209.63.75.91/multimedia/logos/kings.gif


(technically there are more, but i think that should do)

[wang4three]

Honestly, it's a joke that the lockout has gone as far as it has without any signs of progress.

[gigantes]

NBPA VP Maurice Evans: "Our guys are willing to miss this season and more. We're willing to do what it's going to take because accepting a deal at the numbers that they're asking for will be worse than missing the season."
i'm calling shenanigans on this remark, made earlier today.

[D12"Magic"]

Hurricane Irene is heading Jersey, Not gonna be good :(

[Nets fan 93]

Hurricane Irene is heading Jersey, Not gonna be good :(
YEAH! You on the coast or what? the coast is supposed to be hit pretty bad.

[gigantes]

i've calculated the odds, and there's a 1-in-46 trillion chance that hurricane irene will assemble the remaining materials lying around and finish barclays in the next 24 hours.

if all goes well, on monday they can start rolling in the kegs to the concession stands!

[D12"Magic"]

YEAH! You on the coast or what? the coast is supposed to be hit pretty bad.
Closer to the North of Jersey, you?

[Nets fan 93]

Closer to the North of Jersey, you?
Same. good luck ha:cheers:

[D12"Magic"]

Same. good luck ha:cheers:
You and everybody else :cheers:

[Nets fan 93]

This Hurricane is intense... damn this wind is fierce...

[gigantes]

a chris bosh interview just came out on SI:
http://nba-point-forward.si.com/2011/09/03/bosh-talks-team-chemistry-lockout-and-more/?sct=nba_t11_a0
[quote]SI.com: Would you say last season was a success?

Bosh: Well, what I tell people all the time is that it depends on what we do with that first season. If we never win, then yeah, last season was a failure. If we don

[wang4three]

Chris has always come off as an intelligent person. He disassociates himself from the type-A personalities of LeBron and Wade. This is good and bad, but when it comes to his image to the public, it's often a good thing. After I saw him cry in the Finals, he won me be back. Not that I'm a sucker for criers, but it did make me realize that Chris did fairly well in the finals. He did his part, made shots, rebounded, and even hit a game winner, while never complaining. He did play his heart out there, and despite not being able to guard Dirk on a few game winners, he did a great job.

[MTing]

Always thought Chris was the most mature out of the big three. He also get hated on wayy to much and has become underrated imo. I think he did a great job in the finals. Chris cant really play to his full potential when hes on the same team as Wade and LeBron so I dont see why everyone hates on his numbers so much.

[gigantes]

i really, REALLY don't understand this prokhorov political thing.

this morning (http://www.netsdaily.com/2011/9/15/2426993/partys-over-prokhorov-quits-right-cause-claiming-kremlin-takeover#comments) it came out that he's done with this political opposition. forced out by the kremlin, or maybe by certain other events / influences.

but net income is commenting heavily that this is very bad news for the nets. what i don't understand is, "why?" i mean, i don't see for a moment why prokhy's image in the NBA or among free agents should take any significant hit over this. most people around the league probably barely know about his political ambitions, and if so, barely care.

so unless prokhy is completely suicidal, then he tones down his political ambitions, and we more-or-less go back to the way things were before, right?

anyway, that's what i myself would think, except for the fact that NI is so upset over this. but hopefully he will explain why at some point, such as in a response to my comment in the article page...

[gigantes]

http://www.netsdaily.com/2011/9/16/2428835/prokhorovs-outburst-carries-risks

Mikhail Prokhorov's ouster from the political party he headed will surely have consequences for him and his businesses, possibly even the Nets, but right now, those consequences are hard to predict. The Nets owner and the world's 39th richest man accused Russian strongman Vladimir Putin's top political aide of organizing a Kremlin takeover. That's something no one has done before. Thus, the uncertainty.

In a radio interview Thursday night, Prokhorov said he was aware of the risks and accepts them. "I'm used to it. Risk - it's part of my life, I love to take risks, but the risk is reasonable," he told Moscow Echo. "So I'm not afraid, and I have kept the Russian laws." Still, Moscow's biggest financial newspaper listed all of Prokhorov's assets that could be at risk and included his interests in the Nets and the Barclays Center.

One of the country's leading liberals and a friend of Prokhorov's called his position "precarious", particularly his investments. Said Boris Nemtsov: "if he would continue political activities, he risks losing business and possibly searches and criminal cases will begin. As his friend, I would advise him to keep his freedom and return to the business." Not likely now...he's talking about running for president in March.
well, i guess that's the explanation of why the situation is so troubling. we have an owner unlike any other in pro sports, and this business is like the 'other shoe hitting the floor' considering how magical the prokhorov ride has been so far.

but i guess we can just remain cautiously optimistic for the future. unless putin decides to destroy him, prokhy is still prokhy, and still one of the best owners to have.

and if things --don't-- work out, and the team is sold, we still have brooklyn, we still have the new arena, and we still have a team better positioned than it's been in many years to build a strong roster.

that's my attempt to be generally optimistic, anyway. :confusedshrug:

[gigantes]

http://top.rbc.ru/politics/11/10/2011/619738.shtml

Russian press reports that Prokhorov may join a new political party opposed to Prime Minister Vladimir Putin are wrong, we are told definitively.

The information, carried in Izvestia and elsewhere, is not accurate. Prokhorov did tell a Moscow University audience Tuesday that he could ultimately return to Russian politics, but that for now, he will focus on "the development of projects for Russia". He told students he will return to politics only when "conditions are ripe for change."
phew...

concentrate on the nets, prokhy, not politics. you can get in to politics in 15 years if you really want to, and hopefully putin won't be around then, either...

[wang4three]

This lockout is dumb as balls.

[gigantes]

since rep has been turned back on, i figure i should start repping my nets brothers--

so far the system has let me rep wang, blu, BuffaloNetsFan and dasher. when i try try to rep D12, MT, NF93 and idizzle i keep getting the message "you must spread more rep around first."

[Nets fan 93]

since rep has been turned back on, i figure i should start repping my nets brothers--

so far the system has let me rep wang, blu, BuffaloNetsFan and dasher. when i try try to rep D12, MT, NF93 and idizzle i keep getting the message "you must spread more rep around first."
Yeah, I'll definitely be looking out for some good nets posts!:cheers:

[D12"Magic"]

Must Spread some Rep before I give it to some of you guys.

[gigantes]

got all excited early in the day when it looked like a deal was likely to be worked out... made possible by huge progress on several issues if i understand right. fast forward to the end of the evening, when the deal fell through because players are still unwilling to go 50-50 with the owners. again, if i understand the situation right.

and yes, i understand that this is exactly where stern and co. were trying to lead this BRI issue. i understand that this was totally precalculated and premeditated. IMO david stern is a shark at what he does and a troglodyte in terms of character. but he does know the law, the principles of asset management, and what the climate of the times is. pretty important things for any responsible adult to know, actually.

but i have news for you, players: yes, the talent is what makes for the entertainment, but without the deep-pocket funding to establish the league / arenas / infrastructure and run everything else, there is no NBA and no basketball league where the average player salary is $5 million.

the reality is that we're still in a recession that is likely to be permanent, and the american dream is basically over for most folks, sad to say. meanwhile the average fan still has to pay fairly ridiculous money simply to take his friends / family out to a game and pay the parking and the snack fees. compare that to his father's / grandfather's time, when the averaqe athlete 'only' got paid like a doctor / lawyer, and going to a game didn't mean a significant financial sacrifice for the average family.

when you insist on making more than what a doctor or lawyer makes, that kind of raises a flag with me. i'd personally like to know why. what makes you so special when you can't point to sheer earning potential?

so if the players want to find work elsewhere then i say: go for it. go to europe and china if that's what works for you. or if you want to pool your money and make a new league, then go for that, also. more power to you. but don't give me this rubbish about how you're worth more than 50% of the income of a high-paying business. for one thing, you simply aren't any more. the economics changed, and that wasn't some ninja-stealth operation. it's reality.

AFAIK other athletes don't get that kind of 50-50 breakdown, except maybe in baseball. tennis players and most other pro sports don't even come within sniffing distance of a 50-50.

i'm not sure if the NBA players union understands this basic fact- that in business, those who dare to invest open themselves to the greatest risk of loss and the greatest potential to earn. by agreeing to work for the investors, you exchange a quantity of earning potential for job security. that's just investment and employment reality... the rules of the game that millions upon millions of people have staked their families and fortunes on, going back thousands of years.

the real issue i see is that NBA players as a whole are hooked on living the gravy train lifestyle and are statistically some of the worst (maybe even the absolute worst?) pro athletes in the world at saving their money for the future and spending wisely. by their own actions and intentions the union has shown that it doesn't give a crap about player pensions and doesn't give a crap about protecting young players from immature monetary decisions.

at any point along the line, with a little effort the NBAPA could have created a system whereby making it to the NBA would have basically meant being financially secure for life and ensuring the well-being of one's family for generations. but it would also have meant giving up some of the bling and the unsustainable lifestyle excesses.

as if it's better to have a yacht, mansion and a couple of caddies during your few athletic years, even if it meant losing 99% of that on average by age 40, with the entire future of your post-NBA career being completely up in the air... for most, without a college degree or even a body of work in which they could say they were useful experts in. (other than BB, of course)

no, what i see the body of players wanting instead of stability is a cash grab, plain and simple. they want to live the high life during their young adult years, come what may. and folks who aim for that are rarely willing to give up any of that lifestyle unless a gun is pointed at their heads. they will never admit to any of that, but that's the real reason IMO why the players don't want to go 50-50. that, and sheer pride.

[Nets fan 93]

got all excited early in the day when it looked like a deal was likely to be worked out... made possible by huge progress on several issues if i understand right. fast forward to the end of the evening, when the deal fell through because players are still unwilling to go 50-50 with the owners. again, if i understand the situation right.

and yes, i understand that this is exactly where stern and co. were trying to lead this BRI issue. i understand that this was totally precalculated and premeditated. IMO david stern is a shark at what he does and a troglodyte in terms of character. but he does know the law, the principles of asset management, and what the climate of the times is. pretty important things for any responsible adult to know, actually.

but i have news for you, players: yes, the talent is what makes for the entertainment, but without the deep-pocket funding to establish the league / arenas / infrastructure and run everything else, there is no NBA and no basketball league where the average player salary is $5 million.

the reality is that we're still in a recession that is likely to be permanent, and the american dream is basically over for most folks, sad to say. meanwhile the average fan still has to pay fairly ridiculous money simply to take his friends / family out to a game and pay the parking and the snack fees. compare that to his father's / grandfather's time, when the averaqe athlete 'only' got paid like a doctor / lawyer, and going to a game didn't mean a significant financial sacrifice for the average family.

when you insist on making more than what a doctor or lawyer makes, that kind of raises a flag with me. i'd personally like to know why. what makes you so special when you can't point to sheer earning potential?

so if the players want to find work elsewhere then i say: go for it. go to europe and china if that's what works for you. or if you want to pool your money and make a new league, then go for that, also. more power to you. but don't give me this rubbish about how you're worth more than 50% of the income of a high-paying business. for one thing, you simply aren't any more. the economics changed, and that wasn't some ninja-stealth operation. it's reality.

AFAIK other athletes don't get that kind of 50-50 breakdown, except maybe in baseball. tennis players and most other pro sports don't even come within sniffing distance of a 50-50.

i'm not sure if the NBA players union understands this basic fact- that in business, those who dare to invest open themselves to the greatest risk of loss and the greatest potential to earn. by agreeing to work for the investors, you exchange a quantity of earning potential for job security. that's just investment and employment reality... the rules of the game that millions upon millions of people have staked their families and fortunes on, going back thousands of years.

the real issue i see is that NBA players as a whole are hooked on living the gravy train lifestyle and are statistically some of the worst (maybe even the absolute worst?) pro athletes in the world at saving their money for the future and spending wisely. by their own actions and intentions the union has shown that it doesn't give a crap about player pensions and doesn't give a crap about protecting young players from immature monetary decisions.

at any point along the line, with a little effort the NBAPA could have created a system whereby making it to the NBA would have basically meant being financially secure for life and ensuring the well-being of one's family for generations. but it would also have meant giving up some of the bling and the unsustainable lifestyle excesses.

as if it's better to have a yacht, mansion and a couple of caddies during your few athletic years, even if it meant losing 99% of that on average by age 40, with the entire future of your post-NBA career being completely up in the air... for most, without a college degree or even a body of work in which they could say they were useful experts in. (other than BB, of course)

no, what i see the body of players wanting instead of stability is a cash grab, plain and simple. they want to live the high life during their young adult years, come what may. and folks who aim for that are rarely willing to give up any of that lifestyle unless a gun is pointed at their heads. they will never admit to any of that, but that's the real reason IMO why the players don't want to go 50-50. that, and sheer pride.
Nice post, gigantes. Very good points. It's a shame... but lets hope for the best.

[gigantes]

thanks, NF93. and actually... things have loosened up a lot the last couple of days. looks like billy hunter is going down in flames and the players are rapidly shifting towards the 50-50 offer on the table. example article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_lockout_billy_hunter_110111

if i'm not mistaken, most or all of december's games will be saved and we're looking at the end of the lockout very soon. :cheers:

(knock on wood, of course)

[Nets fan 93]

thanks, NF93. and actually... things have loosened up a lot the last couple of days. looks like billy hunter is going down in flames and the players are rapidly shifting towards the 50-50 offer on the table. example article:
http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/news?slug=aw-wojnarowski_nba_lockout_billy_hunter_110111

if i'm not mistaken, most or all of december's games will be saved and we're looking at the end of the lockout very soon. :cheers:

(knock on wood, of course)
No problem! :cheers:
Awesome news btw. Definitely knock on wood!

[gigantes]

IMO there's not a chance in hell this new decertification threat passes with the rank-and-file players. rather, it's the union's last gasp effort to fight back... mainly formulated by the 50 richest players or so.

and i'm not saying that decertification isn't the right strategic move for the union in a perfect world. but most players simply can't afford it in reality. for many of them, their lives would come to a screeching halt around the time that the checks stop coming, which is very soon.

[gigantes]

i guess i won't be making any more predictions about the lockout ending. i really thought all signs and factors pointed to a resolution yesterday.

if fisher & hunter don't reverse themselves and agree to a deal by wednesday, they are pretty-much entering a lottery as i see it. the lottery is- either they somehow get decertification to work out, giving them a big burst of bargaining power, OR the union loses it's position, its best offer, and a lot of mid-range players get downright angry at the union.

common sense is not winning, here. for some reason i thought it would. :facepalm

i guess i'm glad i have MMA. if basketball was still my main sport, i would be throwing this laptop out the window... watching it smash to bits on the street seven stories below. it's still pretty frustrating, though.

[D12"Magic"]

ITS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:

[Nets fan 93]

ITS OVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
:cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers: :cheers:
:rockon: :cheers: :banana: 12/25!!

[D12"Magic"]

:rockon: :cheers: :banana: 12/25!!
28 more days plus FA starts Dec. 9. :rockon:

[Nets fan 93]

28 more days plus FA starts Dec. 9. :rockon:
Yes! I am equally excited about free agency. Not even from just for the Nets! Player movement is awesome!

[D12"Magic"]

Yes! I am equally excited about free agency. Not even from just for the Nets! Player movement is awesome!
Yep, should there be a FA Thread by the way?

[Nets fan 93]

Yep, should there be a FA Thread by the way?
Sure! Feel free to make one!