POLL: Should Lakers have kept Kobe or Shaq?

[JSub]

The Miami Heat winning the championship is quite the slap to the Laker organization. They took a gamble with Shaq to win it all right now and that's exactly what they did. Regardless of how much longer Shaq plays, he has his 4th ring, this one without Kobe Bryant.

In your opinion, did the Lakers make the right choice with Kobe's youth and marketability, or should they have kept Shaq and paired him with another elite guard to make one last championship run?

I will keep the poll tallies. I vote: keep SHAQ.
-------

SHAQ: 12

KOBE: 12

[XxNeXuSxX]

Keep Shaq, Kobe is a Cancer, they could have built around Shaq, because everyone wants to play with him.

[Spiderman08 24]

I think they did the right move. As someone else said, they screwed everything else.

First of all, trading Shaq was a smart decision but trading him for Odom, Grant and Butler was not.
Also, they haven't improved the team on any other way.

Keeping Kobe was smart..what they did after was not smart.

Also, they screwed everything up with the ****ing 2007 plan!!!! Idiots!!!!

If they kept Shaq, they wouldn't have a second star and Shaq alone couldn't do it.

[theinfamousmobb]

They did good keeping Kobe cuz if not the Heat would have never gotten Shaq :D

[JohnnySic]

Trade Kobe for TMac, or for a package of good players. The Lakers would have kept right on winning.

That said, as a Celtics fan I'm glad the Lakers blew this one. :D

[$ci]

If they keep Shaq, they win a few more rings.
If the keep (well kept) Kobe, they barely make the playoffs and blow a 3-1 first round lead.

[Twiens]

Kobe.

[crisoner]

Still say Kobe.

[Spiderman08 24]

Trade Kobe for TMac, or for a package of good players. The Lakers would have kept right on winning.

That said, as a Celtics fan I'm glad the Lakers blew this one. :D


Trade him how? He was a FA.

if you believe he would have agreed to a S&T, you're dead wrong.

And besides, Shaq asked for a trade...it wasn't really Shaq OR Kobe....Shaq asked for a trade after idiot Kupchak said he'd trade him.

[XxNeXuSxX]

Kobe.


I like the Rational behind that post. :hammerhead:

If they kept Shaq, it would have been easier to get a hold of stars to play next to Shaq, no one wants to be on a team with Kobe.

[Qwyjibo]

If they keep Shaq, they win a few more rings.

So Shaq alone wins titles in 2006?? If they kept Shaq then Kobe leaves (and they get nothing in return) and the Lakers still don't win anything.


They made the right move but like I said in a different thread, they screwed everything else up. They got junk for Shaq and didn't give Kobe much help in that lineup.

Keeping Kobe was the right move since it looked like it had to be one or the other.

[XxNeXuSxX]

Trade him how? He was a FA.

if you believe he would have agreed to a S&T, you're dead wrong.

And besides, Shaq asked for a trade...it wasn't really Shaq OR Kobe....Shaq asked for a trade after idiot Kupchak said he'd trade him.


No, Kobe said that.

[crisoner]

Kobe never said trade me.

Kobe hinted to exploring his options. Shaq was just fed up and wanted to get the f*ck out of there.

But really...this had to happen. Shaq was not motivated in LA what so ever. If he kept in good shape and had a better work ethic he would still be dominating the NBA right now like he was in 2000.

[JSub]

I believe Shaq was unmotivated b/c Kobe was on the team.

[Twiens]

I like the Rational behind that post.

Well, their isn't much to say. We keep Shaq, Kobe leaves in Free agency then we wouldnt even make the playoffs, AND have a bad future.

Shaq leaves, we don't make playoffs til the 2nd year, but we have a MUCH better future this way.

Who would be left?
C-Shaq
PF-Cook
SF-George
SG-?
PG-Payton

HAHA, You know Kobe wouldn't do a S&T, so they'd be screwed if they took Shaq over Kobe.

[crisoner]

I believe Shaq was unmotivated b/c Kobe was on the team.

Could be part of the reason.

[XxNeXuSxX]

Well, their isn't much to say. We keep Shaq, Kobe leaves in Free agency then we wouldnt even make the playoffs, AND have a bad future.

Shaq leaves, we don't make playoffs til the 2nd year, but we have a MUCH better future this way.

Who would be left?
C-Shaq
PF-Cook
SF-George
SG-?
PG-Payton

HAHA, You know Kobe wouldn't do a S&T, so they'd be screwed if they took Shaq over Kobe.


Suddenly if they keep Shaq, other FA's start to get interested in the Lakers...

C-Shaq
PF-Mihm
SF-Hughes
SG-Redd
PG-Payton

It's hypothetical, but I think that would have happened.

[Qwyjibo]

I believe Shaq was unmotivated b/c Kobe was on the team.

Another reason why they shouldn't have kept Shaq. This kind of childish attitude is unacceptable. I don't think much of Kobe's attitude but Shaq was acting like a baby at the time.


C-Shaq
PF-Mihm
SF-Hughes
SG-Redd
PG-Payton
With that starting lineup, the Lakers would even be able to afford bench players. They would have the team towel boys playing 10 minutes per game.

[420puffer]

I think they could have got a better deal by trading away Kobe and Keeping Shaq. They could have got T-Mac to play with Shaq and they get along well on and off the court.


BUT, then again, keeping Kobe wasnt so bad because he is younger

[XxNeXuSxX]

Another reason why they shouldn't have kept Shaq. This kind of childish attitude is unacceptable. I don't think much of Kobe's attitude but Shaq was acting like a baby at the time.


With that starting lineup, the Lakers would even be able to afford bench players. They would have the team towel boys playing 10 minutes per game.

Payton/Malone took paycuts to be with Shaq.

[Qwyjibo]

Payton/Malone took paycuts to be with Shaq.
Because they were old, already made a TON of money throughout their careers and wanted to ride the coattails to a title.

Redd and Hughes are still relatively young guys and money matters. There is no way they would take paycuts and that lineup you posted could have never happened with their current salaries.

[Joey Zaza]

Lets pretend for a moment that the Lakers were deciding to form a team without Kobe and Shaq playing together that would win them their next championship as quickly as possible.

The understand from the Heat that they can get Butler, Odom and Grant for Shaq.

What's the offer for a S&T w/ Kobe?

Without knowing that info, it impossible to evaluate the choice. Could they get Wade for Kobe? Remember, Wade was the injury-riddled 2nd best player on that Heat team. If so, then yeah, the should've kept Shaq.

If they were going to lose Kobe outright to the Clips, then keeping Shaq on a team without any supporting players would've been ugly (well, 45 wins and maybe the 2d round).

[Timmeh]

it would'nt have mattered, Lakers got rid of Horry and Fisher so getting rid of Kobe/Shaq didnt help

so i say it wouldnt matter because the Lakers wouldnt win another championship with either one staying on the team

[Twiens]

C-Shaq
PF-Mihm
SF-Hughes
SG-Redd
PG-Payton

You can't have Payton and Mihm. They were traded for eachother.

[hotsizzle]

keep kobe.

first of all, if they let kobe go to FA, who knows if shaq is gonna resign or not. he was askin for 30 mil per. lakers would be left haveing to rebuild. well guess what, now they set themselves up to rebuilt around a 26 year old who is determined to go down as the greatest ever. shaq demanded the trade, buss/kupchak tried to talk him out of it but didnt work. they also had called pat riley thinking that he could get both kobe and shaq to stay but shaq said it didnt matter, he wants out.

no one can really see how this is gonna turn out. but keeping a 26 yr old under a 6 yr deal for 135 mil is alot more reasonable than keeping a 32 yr for 30 mile per.

and kobe would not have done S&T. no way.the teams he was interested in were already paying big money. chicago and clips

so yea keep kobe is the right decision.

[Batchoy]

Lakers should have kept Shaq and traded Kobe.

In an interview last week on Best Damn Sports Show on Fox, Kobe said that he was seriously thinking about going to Chicago during the height of the Kobe/Shaq feud. He was actually looking to buy a house there. If this were true then the most logical senario would have been a sign and trade. Remember Chicago's offer was less than that of The Clippers and Kobe still had that Colorado "incident" to take care of. Trying to get the most amount of money as a free agent would have been the best choice for Kobe.
I then would have gotten Heinrich, Chandler, Jamal Crawford, Donyell Marshall and #1 pick for Kobe and Rick Fox. Afterwards, I would have traded Crawford (this was when Jamal still had some trade value) and #1 pick for Ray Allen. Just remember that Seattle was in a rut at that time and Crawford was a local kid. I've stated this senario many times before.




My Laker lineup would have been...

Starters:
Heinrich
Ray Allen
Devon George
Karl Malone (there would be no mexican girl hunting incident)
Shaq

Bench:
Payton
Rasual Butler (sign as a free agent)
Luke Walton
Donyell Marshall
Tyson Chandler (learn from Malone and Shaq)

[Thorpesaurous]

Kobe was a FA and just bitter enough to not agree to a sign and trade at the time. They basically weren't going to get anything for him, so keeping him and getting value back for Shaq was probably the right move at that time. But it never should have come to that. Things could have been done sooner that would have let them build around Shaq, but when the decision was made, it was probably the right one.

[Joey Zaza]

Lakers should have kept Shaq and traded Kobe.

In an interview last week on Best Damn Sports Show on Fox, Kobe said that he was seriously thinking about going to Chicago during the height of the Kobe/Shaq feud. He was actually looking to buy a house there. If this were true then the most logical senario would have been a sign and trade. Remember Chicago's offer was less than that of The Clippers and Kobe still had that Colorado "incident" to take care of. Trying to get the most amount of money as a free agent would have been the best choice for Kobe.
I then would have gotten Heinrich, Chandler, Jamal Crawford, Donyell Marshall and #1 pick for Kobe and Rick Fox. Afterwards, I would have traded Crawford (this was when Jamal still had some trade value) and #1 pick for Ray Allen. Just remember that Seattle was in a rut at that time and Crawford was a local kid. I've stated this senario many times before.




My Laker lineup would have been...

Starters:
Heinrich
Ray Allen
Devon George
Karl Malone (there would be no mexican girl hunting incident)
Shaq

Bench:
Payton
Rasual Butler (sign as a free agent)
Luke Walton
Donyell Marshall
Tyson Chandler (learn from Malone and Shaq)

:applause: Man, you should be a GM. Who wouldn't go for Crawford for Ray Allen? I'm sure the Bulls would trade all their players for Kobe.

[Batchoy]

Kobe was a FA and just bitter enough to not agree to a sign and trade at the time.Kobe may have been bitter and I don't like him, but he is an intelligent person. I don't think that bitterness would make him lose about $40 million, in total $$$, if he just signed with the Bulls.

And even if Kobe did just sign, The Lakers would still have some cap space to get a couple of free agents and when Shaq realizes that The Lakers gave him respect by believing in him, I really think Shaq would have asked for less $$$ (probably $20 million a year for 4 years. Similar to Miami) so The Lakers could get top free agents for next season (2005)

[AKA AAP]

Keeping Shaq was the right move, both in the short term AND long term. Do I have to explain this again?

[Knoe Itawl]

Good post by Batchoy.

I woulda dumped Kobe for top talent when his trade value was sky high after they lost to the Spurs that season.

They would still be contenders and have top talent to build around as Shaq got older.

Only people who think that wouldn't have been better short term and long term for the Lakers are mindless groupie scum.

[Batchoy]

:applause: Man, you should be a GM. Who wouldn't go for Crawford for Ray Allen?I've had this senario (or something similar) even before Shaq was traded 2 years ago. Crawford still had some good trade value going for him and with the addition of a #1 pick, I think Seattle would have thought of it. And even if they didn't, The Lakers weren't in any big trouble with Crawford as a temporary filler in the 2 spot. The #1 pick from The Bulls would have covered that (I believe they took Gordon with that pick)




I'm sure the Bulls would trade all their players for Kobe.They would have. Bulls management would have been salivating like hungry animals to see Kobe "The next MJ" in a Bulls uniform. Also, remember, The Bulls were perennial lottery picks and probably would have given anything for Kobe.

[Twiens]

Do I have to explain this again?

Yes. Explain how they would still be good. Without mentioning a bunch of people who you think would take paycuts to play with Shaq.

[shadow]

Kobe was the right choice.
LA didn't have a choice at that point in time because Shaq was
a)fat and out of shape showing no commitment to improve in that area
b)demanding ungodly amounts of money while being in condition as noted above.
c)even if kept shaq, kobe would've bolted. I don't think he would've agreed to a S&T because of ego.
d)in the situation where we kept shaq, even assuming he gets in shape, we're cap strapped, and hoping vets on their way out will take our minimums and exceptions to play with shaq, and then retire a year or so later leaving us hoping for another cheap vet. Mind you it has to be impact players, like Karl & GP, not playerwhodaheckcaresovich or whatever.

Finally it remains to be seen what the end result will be. Did the lakers trtade one championship for more

[Batchoy]

Keeping Shaq was the right move, both in the short term AND long term. Do I have to explain this again?I've tried telling that to Kobe/Laker fans, but they were so infatuated with Kobe at that time, that they just saw Kobe's potential for greatness (the next MJ) andthey didn't care who was thrown away, just as long as they got to see Kobe do his stuff. Well, they got what they wished for.

[Batchoy]

Kobe was the right choice.
LA didn't have a choice at that point in time because Shaq was
a)fat and out of shape showing no commitment to improve in that area
b)demanding ungodly amounts of money while being in condition as noted above.
c)even if kept shaq, kobe would've bolted. I don't think he would've agreed to a S&T because of ego.
d)in the situation where we kept shaq, even assuming he gets in shape, we're cap strapped, and hoping vets on their way out will take our minimums and exceptions to play with shaq, and then retire a year or so later leaving us hoping for another cheap vet. Mind you it has to be impact players, like Karl & GP, not playerwhodaheckcaresovich or whatever.

Finally it remains to be seen what the end result will be. Did the lakers trtade one championship for more
And if you read any of my posts, I explain why keeping Shaq would have deemed most of your points moot. And Shaq winning another Championship puts all your reasoning out the window. :pimp:

[shadow]

I've tried telling that to Kobe/Laker fans, but they were so infatuated with Kobe at that time, that they just saw Kobe's potential for greatness (the next MJ) andthey didn't care who was thrown away, just as long as they got to see Kobe do his stuff. Well, they got what they wished for.
its amazing how you accuse people of being blinded by kobe yet absolutely refuse to accept the incredibly high possibility that shaq would not have gotten in shape had we kept him.
its not a fat shaq that just won this ring. Its was a guy who workd his butt of. The lakers were never goin to get this shaq, no matter what and when we made the choice between him and kobe.

[Knoe Itawl]

Kobe was the right choice.
LA didn't have a choice at that point in time because Shaq was
a)fat and out of shape showing no commitment to improve in that area
b)demanding ungodly amounts of money while being in condition as noted above.
c)even if kept shaq, kobe would've bolted. I don't think he would've agreed to a S&T because of ego.
d)in the situation where we kept shaq, even assuming he gets in shape, we're cap strapped, and hoping vets on their way out will take our minimums and exceptions to play with shaq, and then retire a year or so later leaving us hoping for another cheap vet. Mind you it has to be impact players, like Karl & GP, not playerwhodaheckcaresovich or whatever.

Finally it remains to be seen what the end result will be. Did the lakers trtade one championship for more

Idiotic. If they had dumbed Kobe after the Spurs series that year, they could have gotten top flight talent for him and still be contenders today and good for the future.

Your allegiance to Kobe goes in the face of LOGIC and REASON. I know you hate to think Kobe could have been replaced, but the fact is he could have and it would have been better for the Lakers.

Instead the Lakers are stuck in mediocrity for the forseeable future.

Hey at least you get to see Kobe score a lot, right? :rolleyes:

[Knoe Itawl]

its amazing how you accuse people of being blinded by kobe yet absolutely refuse to accept the incredibly high possibility that shaq would not have gotten in shape had we kept him.
its not a fat shaq that just won this ring. Its was a guy who workd his butt of. The lakers were never goin to get this shaq, no matter what and when we made the choice between him and kobe.

And in your love of Kobe you refuse to see that just MAYBE Shaq worked his butt off because he was inspired by not having to play with that prick anymore.

[Batchoy]

its amazing how you accuse people of being blinded by kobe yet absolutely refuse to accept the incredibly high possibility that shaq would not have gotten in shape had we kept him.
its not a fat shaq that just won this ring. Its was a guy who workd his butt of. The lakers were never goin to get this shaq, no matter what and when we made the choice between him and kobe.You are blinded by Kobe. You refuse to believe that if a team believed in Shaq, he would get back in shape. Trading the person who has been the root of his problems would make that person change. I was a Laker fan who believed in Shaq. Most of you were too busy jacking off to Kobe and his "talent". You brushed away all of Kobe's faults and wanted to see the next MJ. Now Shaq has just won his 4th Championship and Kobe is watching at home and will probably watch the Championship for the next couple of years (because The Lakers will be over the cap the next 2 seasons) and more than likely a few years after that.

While Shaq can start getting ready for another chance at a Championship. How's that for being fat, out shape, and too old?

[shadow]

Idiotic. If they had dumbed Kobe after the Spurs series that year, they could have gotten top flight talent for him and still be contenders today and good for the future.

Your allegiance to Kobe goes in the face of LOGIC and REASON. I know you hate to think Kobe could have been replaced, but the fact is he could have and it would have been better for the Lakers.

Instead the Lakers are stuck in mediocrity for the forseeable future.

Hey at least you get to see Kobe score a lot, right? :rolleyes:
OK for someone who prides himself in never calling others names first...:applause:

As for your logic, I know very well about your brand of "logic." Its your way or the high way. You sound like a republican you know. No other POV.

As I keep saying by 2002 shaq had already shown he was not interested in staying in shape. The reason Miami won was because he was in Shape. Give this heat team a fat shaq and do they still win?

The Lakers never had to make a choice till 2004. That is when the choice was made. At that point in time LA had only one choice. But then you'd know that if you read what I wrote as opposed to if you read what you want to.:banghead:

You know the thing about you is, that you pretend to hide under this facade of "logic" when all you're spewing is pure hate. Atleast with aap & batchoy, even if I disagree with them, they openly admit they hate Kobe and the Lakers. Thats more admirable in a twisted way, then your "ooooh look at me I'm logical and smart, and everyone else is wrong because I'm always correct and logical" approach.

[KNOWLEDGE20]

Kobe was the right move he's younger and still the best player in the league he just needs a little more help! Shaq asked for a trade because he feeling got hurt when Dr. Buss offered him a reported $70-$80million dollars for 3yrs (which would have made him still the highest paid player in the NBA) because he wanted $100 million! Yeah Shaq got a ring but he still isnt worth a $100million right now he's 34 now by the time his contract end with Mia hell be 38 making 20million in that season probable sitting at the end of the bench collecting a check! Besides Mia had the money to pay shaq the lakers could pay kobe and shaq that the would have been crazy

[Knoe Itawl]

OK for someone who prides himself in never calling others names first...:applause:

As for your logic, I know very well about your brand of "logic." Its your way or the high way. You sound like a republican you know. No other POV.

As I keep saying by 2002 shaq had already shown he was not interested in staying in shape. The reason Miami won was because he was in Shape. Give this heat team a fat shaq and do they still win?

The Lakers never had to make a choice till 2004. That is when the choice was made. At that point in time LA had only one choice. But then you'd know that if you read what I wrote as opposed to if you read what you want to.:banghead:

You know the thing about you is, that you pretend to hide under this facade of "logic" when all you're spewing is pure hate. Atleast with aap & batchoy, even if I disagree with them, they openly admit they hate Kobe and the Lakers. Thats more admirable in a twisted way, then your "ooooh look at me I'm logical and smart, and everyone else is wrong because I'm always correct and logical" approach.

You're not even READING what's being said because you're just a mindless follower of Bryant

Go ahead and tell me why it wouldn't have worked to get rid of Kobe when they failed to win the championship again. They could have dumped him for another all star perimter player like AI, Pierce, etc. or a combination of players and STILL been contenders and Shaq would have been more motivated since it was playing with Kobe that was unmotivating him. And they would still be contenders as his career wound down.

Why wouldn't that have worked, Kobe Groupie?

[Qwyjibo]

Keeping Shaq was the right move, both in the short term AND long term. Do I have to explain this again?


I'd like to hear the explanation on this. Keeping Shaq and having Kobe leave for nothing while still having Shaq's gigantic contract hamstringing your ability to sign major players...

Let's hear it.

[shadow]

You're not even READING what's being said because you're just a mindless follower of Bryant

Go ahead and tell me why it wouldn't have worked to get rid of Kobe when they failed to win the championship again. They could have dumped him for another all star perimter player like AI, Pierce, etc. or a combination of players and STILL been contenders and Shaq would have been more motivated since it was playing with Kobe that was unmotivating him. And they would still be contenders as his career wound down.

Why wouldn't that have worked, Kobe Groupie?
whatever you say wade groupie.

[Knoe Itawl]

whatever you say wade groupie.

That's what I thought. You got nothing. Nothing except your unnatural mancrush on a player that's cripling your franchise for years. Enjoy it.

[shadow]

That's what I thought. You got nothing. Nothing except your unnatural mancrush on a player that's cripling your franchise for years. Enjoy it.
I dunno you took everything I said, regurgitated it back at me because you had nothing "logical" to respond with. I was just returning the favor bro.

No worries :)

[Knoe Itawl]

I dunno you took everything I said, regurgitated it back at me because you had nothing "logical" to respond with. I was just returning the favor bro.

No worries :)

Yup. Enjoy the Lakers making the "right" choice by keeping Kobe when the team gets nowhere near a title anytime soon.

You're the type of person that I don't think even CARES about a title. If you had a choice between getting rid of Kobe for a better chance at a title, or keeping him with less of a chance you'd choose keeping him.

Maybe if you admitted that, I'd have more respect for you.

[bonez26]

Shaq

[Batchoy]

The truth of the matter, for me, was I wanted Shaq and Kobe to play together as Lakers. I also believed that if both of them did play until Shaq retired, they would have won at least 5 titles and then Kobe would have gone to make his own mark in the basketball world once Shaq retired. Then Kobe's "image" would never have taken a hit and free agents, veterans, rookies would have been knocking on Jerry Buss' door to take pay cuts to play for The Lakers.

That's how it should have been. Even former Laker stars (Magic Johnson, Norm Nixon) have said that keeping Shaq happy should have been the main priority for The Lakers. They knew/and know that Shaq was/is the best chance for any team to get a Championship. He just makes the game easier to play on both ends if you are on his team.

It was just sad and frustrating to see how everything went down. Sides had to be taken and it looks like Shaq has validated himself while Kobe and The Laker management have egg all over their faces.

[Spurs3]

shaq, its just been proven that the lakers were stupid to let shaq go. look whos got 4th ring. kidding. idk if the lakers would have won/went to finals again ever if kept shaq cause u know shaq wouldnt win the title this year without dwade, no way

[Banks91]

Cmon, everybody saw how important Wade is to the Heat.

If Shaq was still on the lakers, who would be that superstar that would do what he's done? you aren't getting any thing for kobe cuz he's a free agent.

You wouldn't have a great back up like Mourning, cuz Shaq alone isn't winning a championship, so he has no reason to come to LA.

Even though it bothers me to say it, Kobe is the player i'd keep.

[shadow]

Yup. Enjoy the Lakers making the "right" choice by keeping Kobe when the team gets nowhere near a title anytime soon.

You're the type of person that I don't think even CARES about a title. If you had a choice between getting rid of Kobe for a better chance at a title, or keeping him with less of a chance you'd choose keeping him.

Maybe if you admitted that, I'd have more respect for you.
Oh dear lord I'm heartbroken. :\
believe me if your respect meant anything to me, you wouldn't be trying to goad me into a kobe discussion because you'd already know where I stand on that guy.

Hey batchoy, i ain't gonna quote your last post, but you described the ideal scenario. I just think that when push came to shove, ie 2004, Lakers made the only choice they could have given the circumstances.

The results of the trade...well so far shaq 1-lakers 0. hard to argue with that. But there are still a few years to go, hopefully they are kind to us. :\

[jan803]

That's how it should have been. Even former Laker stars (Magic Johnson, Norm Nixon) have said that keeping Shaq happy should have been the main priority for The Lakers. They knew/and know that Shaq was/is the best chance for any team to get a Championship. He just makes the game easier to play on both ends if you are on his team.

and this where magic looks like an a$$.

he's part owner of the dam team. he was there during the whole time. you know what i'm about to say is documented...NO ONE put these two together to try to work things out. so how is that kobe's fault? h@ll, it's not shaq's fault either.

did you read the dam la times today? the mark heilser article where he was talking about riley wanting to come here after they let phil go? wanting to coach both shaq and kobe? asking for both their phone numbers to talk to them? buss just needing to talk over lunch? it was DONE between those two.

and note this...upper management really f'd this up. kobe and shaq had fault in this as well. but dam the front office...

and then we have to get stupid polls like this...typical.

btw, buss went with youth. whether he was right or not remains to be seen. but it's common sense that he was going to stick w/youth. kobe was turning 25 in 2004. even after the way things turned out in these finals, you look at the state of affairs in 2004 when he decided things.

[mavsfan4zindagi]

If they keep Shaq and trade Kobe for any other allstar, they win championship after championship.


Its obvious the Lakers made a HUGE mistake by keeping the Bean.

[crisoner]

Knoe aka the Kobe Troll

[MaxFly]

Exactly how much money was Shaq asking for in 2004? I keep hearing 30 million a year, and that's pretty much half of a team's salary cap... I'm not sure of what kind of team you can build with that...

[West-Side]

I think Shaquille's play during the finals proves that LA kept the right guy...he was mediocre at best. And his FTs are worse then ever...

Definitely Kobe was the right choice...

[KiNG]

they shulda kept kobe... u cant keep shaq unless u have a ruthless player (wade, kobe) to make better

[XxNeXuSxX]

I think Shaquille's play during the finals proves that LA kept the right guy...he was mediocre at best. And his FTs are worse then ever...

Definitely Kobe was the right choice...

No offense but, who won the champoinship again? :hammerhead:

[West-Side]

Who had more talent around?
Wade, Walker, Mourning, Payton, Williams, Posey or Odom, KWAME, SMUSH... :hammerhead:

If LA had Mourning they would have beaten Phoenix.

[TheGreatNumber8]

No offense but, who won the champoinship again? :hammerhead:

I guess posey is better than bron.

[Batchoy]

and this where magic looks like an a$$.

he's part owner of the dam team. he was there during the whole time. you know what i'm about to say is documented...NO ONE put these two together to try to work things out. so how is that kobe's fault? h@ll, it's not shaq's fault either.
It doesn't make Magic look like an A$$, it makes Kobe look like an A$$, and it makes Buss' look like an A$$. In my opinion, they are ones who put themselves in this position looking like fools. And of course I can't forget all the Kobe ballgrabbers who just wanted Kobe for themselves and give everyone else the shaft. This Shaq/Kobe feud was, in essence, all about ego. Neither one wanted to back down to the other. Yes, management (Phil and Mitch) did a pi$$ A$$ poor job of trying to quell the problem. They even managed to increase it more. But, as the younger, and less experienced of the two players, I thought Kobe should have deferred to Shaq until Shaq was ready to hand over the reins to Kobe (ala Kareem and Magic). But ever since Kobe entered the league, he wanted to prove to everyone he was better player. Along with a personality only Frankenstein's monster would love, Kobe made his teammates not want to like him. It was only during this last season, Phil actually said Kobe had started to bond with his teammates by going out with them or inviting them to his house, that I realized Kobe had been an A$$ for the past 9 seasons.




did you read the dam la times today? the mark heilser article where he was talking about riley wanting to come here after they let phil go? wanting to coach both shaq and kobe? asking for both their phone numbers to talk to them? buss just needing to talk over lunch? it was DONE between those two.

and note this...upper management really f'd this up. kobe and shaq had fault in this as well. but dam the front office...
Then blame Buss. I'm giving Buss his share of the fault, but I'm not letting Kobe off the hook. It seems like the fans who love Kobe will never find fault with their "God".

[Batchoy]

I think Shaquille's play during the finals proves that LA kept the right guy...he was mediocre at best. And his FTs are worse then ever...Of course Shaq won't be his dominant self. He's 34 years old with 14 years in the league. But what Shaq gives you is a chance for a championship. And that's all you need.

[XxNeXuSxX]

Who had more talent around?
Wade, Walker, Mourning, Payton, Williams, Posey or Odom, KWAME, SMUSH... :hammerhead:

If LA had Mourning they would have beaten Phoenix.

Your Right, they probably would have.

But Wade seemed to single handedly carry his team in the finals, no one else stepped up other than Udonis Haslem, not even Shaq

Argh I'm turning this into a Wade debate somehow.

[West-Side]

Shaquille is a great player, but put Shaq with the current Lakers minus Kobe...you honestly think LA will do better then 45 wins?

I seriously doubt...he's old, he wanted alot of money and he wasn't in shape back in 2004...back then Mitch did the right thing, and right now it's clear he did the right thing.

He just needed to make a better deal for Shaquille....Nash, Howard and 5th overall pick would have been much better for LA.

[Batchoy]

Hey batchoy, i ain't gonna quote your last post, but you described the ideal scenario. I just think that when push came to shove, ie 2004, Lakers made the only choice they could have given the circumstances.
It wasn't "the only choice" for The Lakers. It was the choice they made. And now they have to live with it.







The results of the trade...well so far shaq 1-lakers 0. hard to argue with that. But there are still a few years to go, hopefully they are kind to us. :\Even if Kobe wins another Championship, there is those few years where, if Shaq weren't traded or if Kobe just deferred to Shaq, how many more Championships would have been won? That will be the question hanging over Kobe.

[West-Side]

But what Shaq gives you is a chance for a championship. And that's all you need.

Yeah, when you put talent around him...something Kobe doesn't have.
So we can't fairly compare how each has done on their own, since Shaquille had more talent around him then Kobe.

[Batchoy]

Yeah, when you put talent around him...something Kobe doesn't have.
So we can't fairly compare how each has done on their own, since Shaquille had more talent around him then Kobe.You can find all the excuses for Kobe if you want. Shaq said he would give Miami a Championship and he did.:bowdown:

If you want to put blame on someone, try looking at the Laker management if you don't want to scruff up Kobe's image.

[ALlArOuNDPIaya]

Shaquille is a great player, but put Shaq with the current Lakers minus Kobe...you honestly think LA will do better then 45 wins?

I seriously doubt...he's old, he wanted alot of money and he wasn't in shape back in 2004...back then Mitch did the right thing, and right now it's clear he did the right thing.

He just needed to make a better deal for Shaquille....Nash, Howard and 5th overall pick would have been much better for LA.

Right, The Lakers would probably be worse. They definitely needed a better deal for Shaq than that.

[West-Side]

Wow, he claimed HE was going to bring a championship to Miami?
It's not that hard to do when you have players like Wade on your team, I would like for him to express such confidence when he has Smush Parker and Kwame Brown as starters...or better yet, actually LEAD Miami to a championship...he had a mediocre finals where he couldn't hit a damn FT.

Thing about Shaquille and Kobe comparison, is one player gets all the glory for winning while having alot of talent, while the other is bashed for winning while having a great talent along side him.

Hence people praising Shaquille for winning another championship, while Wade basically carried the team...while if Kobe was in Shaquille's position, and another star carried the team...people would be bashing Kobe for choking.

Double Standard when it comes to Kobe.

[Batchoy]

Shaquille is a great player, but put Shaq with the current Lakers minus Kobe...you honestly think LA will do better then 45 wins?Yes, because you, like most Kobe fans, think that no other free agent would want to play with Shaq like they do with Kobe. Sorry, but it's because of Shaq that players wanted to play for The Lakers. Heck, even now, most players would want to play alongside Shaq and for a paycut. They know how he makes it easier to play the game.






He just needed to make a better deal for Shaquille....Nash, Howard and 5th overall pick would have been much better for LANope. It would have been Nash, Howard, the #5 pick, and either Antoine Walker or Antawn Jameson. The $$$ wouldn't have matched. This trade would have been 10x better than the Miami trade, but Buss wanted Nowitski in the mix and Cuban didn't want to part with him. If only the Lakers relented their lineup would have been

Nash
Kobe
Howard
Jameson
Mihm (from the Payton/Fox trade to Boston for Mihm, Jumaine Jones, and Chuckie Atkins)


Dallas' lineup:
Terry
Finley
Walker
Nowitski
Shaq


Not bad for both teams, but the last thing The Lakers wanted was Shaq in the same conference. Just blame the Laker management for this.

[Batchoy]

Wow, he claimed HE was going to bring a championship to Miami?
It's not that hard to do when you have players like Wade on your team, I would like for him to express such confidence when he has Smush Parker and Kwame Brown as starters...or better yet, actually LEAD Miami to a championship...he had a mediocre finals where he couldn't hit a damn FT.You really can't understand how much Shaq means to a team. I know his talent has diminished because of age and weight, but Dallas still double teamed him and he still scored and rebounded in double figures. Wade was the MVP, but without Shaq Miami would not have been a contender. And by the way, Shaq has lead a team to a Championship. 3 in fact. And the 3 Finals MVP's also proved Shaq was the leader of the team.

If you still can't see what Shaq brings to a team then I feel sorry for you. Then you can go about saying how great Kobe is while trying to get past the first round.

[Batchoy]

Double Standard when it comes to Kobe.I won't say a bad word about Kobe once he "leads" a team to the title. Shaq has done it 3 times and has helped immensely with this current one. I'd say Shaq is up over Kobe a bit.:rockon:

[Spurs3]

Wow, he claimed HE was going to bring a championship to Miami?
It's not that hard to do when you have players like Wade on your team, I would like for him to express such confidence when he has Smush Parker and Kwame Brown as starters...or better yet, actually LEAD Miami to a championship...he had a mediocre finals where he couldn't hit a damn FT.

well obviously shaq had calculated it that he could win one with wade. or he wouldnt said it. dont u think so? hmm never thought of it actually shaq is quite smart he has depth :rolleyes:


Thing about Shaquille and Kobe comparison, is one player gets all the glory for winning while having alot of talent, while the other is bashed for winning while having a great talent along side him.

Hence people praising Shaquille for winning another championship, while Wade basically carried the team...while if Kobe was in Shaquille's position, and another star carried the team...people would be bashing Kobe for choking.

shaq accepted 2nd role. pat and the heat wanted wade to be the man to carry the team, esp. in clutch time, and shaq had no problem with it.

it makes the whole situation worse for kobe cuase he jus said a while back that shaq didnt win no title alone and shaq jus showed that he didnt need kobe to win another ring although it is undeniable that without wade the heat wouldnt surpass the nets

[hotsizzle]

But ever since Kobe entered the league, he wanted to prove to everyone he was better player

you're wrong batchboy. it was never about shaq. ever since kobe entered the league, he wanted to prove that he was the best player. this of course had its positives and negatives.

[Qwyjibo]

Heck, even now, most players would want to play alongside Shaq and for a paycut. They know how he makes it easier to play the game.

I think you're being a bit delusional there. Maybe guys like Gary Payton would accept paycuts but him Shaq and the other Lakers scrubs isn't going to get much done.

Do you think the Lakers could have lured in a Michael Redd or hell even Bobby Simmons on a paycut just so they can play with Shaq?? Not a chance. The players who are taking paycuts are ones on their last legs in the NBA trying to attach themselves to already contenders, they are not big difference makers.

[sydneyking]

Knoe Itawl = Anne Coulter.

Let's see what they have in common:

1. Ad hominem attacks
2. Lies
3. Irrelevant arguments
4. Failure to address points
5. More of 1-4

Your arguments are bullsh1t.


I woulda dumped Kobe for top talent when his trade value was sky high after they lost to the Spurs that season.
Why?? This makes no fukn sense. Who breaks up a team one year after a three-peat. It took years for the Bulls to recover.

I also like how you neglect the fact that Shaq was the one who demanded a trade. I find it hilarious that if Kareem Rush hadn't hit those six treys, the Lakers would have gone home and Shaq would not have wanted out.

Do you really think this team is going anywhere?:

Shaq
Medvedenko
Walton
Fisher
Payton

You really think that team has a future? Look up Shaq's averages in the postseason and tell me that you'd rather have his 80 million dollar contract for the next four years.

I'm pretty sure that you are an intelligent person. But your arguments are pathetic and when you realise the truth you resort to personal cheapshots.

As for this idiot:


C-Shaq
PF-Mihm
SF-Hughes
SG-Redd
PG-Payton

It's hypothetical, but I think that would have happened.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[sydneyking]

Heck, even now, most players would want to play alongside Shaq and for a paycut. They know how he makes it easier to play the game.
Players in the history of the game who have done this:

1. Over the hill Karl Malone
2. Over the hill Payton

Tell me why Redd, Hughes, Joe Johnson etc. didn't sign with the Heat. After all they would have wanted to play with Shaq, right :confusedshrug:

[West-Side]

Kobe is MORE VALUABLE to a team then Shaquille can you get that through your skull?


I know his talent has diminished because of age and weight, but Dallas still double teamed him and he still scored and rebounded in double figures

EXACTLY, can you not understand that I'd rather have Kobe because he's a better player now, because he's younger...why the hell are you bringing what Shaquille did in the PAST, I'm talking about the future. And I'm a Laker fan buddy, not a Kobe fan...quit downplaying what I said by trying to make me look like some biased Kobe fan.

As far as you claiming that people want to play with Shaquille, I ain't arguing, they do want to play with Shaquille...but he also asked for 30 million a year, so that prevents LA from signing any big time player...MLE is the only option, and mostly veterans like Payton or Mourning would agree to that.

Shaq accepted the 2nd role because he can't carry a team like he has in the past, hence why I'd rather have Kobe then Shaquille.


he didnt need kobe to win another ring although it is undeniable that without wade the heat wouldnt surpass the nets

:roll: Yeah but he needed ANOTHER prolific SG, right? What a retarded staement man, use your head please.


Shaq has done it 3 times and has helped immensely with this current one. I'd say Shaq is up over Kobe a bit.

All 3 times he had a terrific 2nd option, something Kobe does not have...Shaquille has done more then Kobe obviously, but I'm talking about the future and the current state...in both cases Kobe is more valuable to a team.


If you still can't see what Shaq brings to a team then I feel sorry for you.

Sigh, I ain't downplaying what Shaquille has DONE or what he BROUGHT...I'm saying that Kobe brings more to a team and does more for a team then the CURRENT Shaquille O'neal.

You claiming that Shaquille is more important by bringing up that he won another championship while Kobe is out 1st round is flawed, and my reasons were stated in my previous posts.

All you did was bring back what Shaquille has done rather then what he did this past season, he did not do more for his team then Kobe for LA....he simply had a sh*t load more talent around him then Kobe, thus he won the title.

[Batchoy]

you're wrong batchboy. it was never about shaq. ever since kobe entered the league, he wanted to prove that he was the best player. this of course had its positives and negatives.To try to be the best is fine, that's what you try to acheive when you're an athlete, but the way Kobe handled himself the past 10 seasons, it was almost all negative to his teammates and the general fanbase. It was about Shaq, because Shaq was the best player on the Lakers and Kobe felt he could do things better than Shaq, trying to prove it any chance he could. This is the main reason for the feud and the main reason why I hate Kobe.

[Spurs3]

Yeah but he needed ANOTHER prolific SG, right? What a retarded staement man, use your head please.

sure he needed wade to win. but wade wouldnt be the super star he is today without shaq. this shaq needed kobe wade needed shaq jordan needed pip is pointless to argue about.

east side a guy like u wont make kobe look better. peace

[chopchop20]

Shaq scored 9 points last night in the biggest game of his team's season-- they actually play better with him on the bench,

Can u imagine Kobe scoring 9 pts for LA and them still winning? LA kept the right player.

But what we got in return is boggling to this day.

[crisoner]

Shaq scored 9 points last night in the biggest game of his team's season-- they actually play better with him on the bench,

Can u imagine Kobe scoring 9 pts for LA and them still winning? LA kept the right player.

But what we got in return is boggling to this day.

Rack him!!!

[roth15syr]

I'd say they did the right thing. I hate Kobe and I love Shaq, and those feelings were strengthened after reading Phil's book, but Kobe is younger, a better jersey seller (due to this being around longer), and either way they would have somebody with a max contract and therefore would have to be very careful with their other roster moves. They would hafta only pick up good players for fair prices and draft well, and then no matter who they kept they would be in contention. Either way they hafta surround their star with good players. Therefore, I think it's a tie with Kobe's age and marketability giving him the edge.

[Bosh4life]

Vote me in for shaq.

[305Baller]

Im not tryin to play it safe when Im sayin that it was a good move for both sides. Odom should get a little better yet.

[West-Side]

but wade wouldnt be the super star he is today without shaq.

Just like Kobe, right?
He had his best season in his career, and guess what Shaquille was no where to be found. I find it amusing that you guys praise Shaquille when an old Mourning did better then him in game 6. I mean to think that Smush Parker outplays Kobe in a game 6, while winning the championships...the man would get crucified as a complete joke on here.

I'm here to put some damn sense to some of you.

[Semiprocappa]

Keeping shaq would have handed the next 5 championships to the Clippers. A team with brand, Maggette and Kobe would have ripped up the league. And Kobe wouldn't have even asked for a sign and trade. He would have just walked.

[Spurs3]

Just like Kobe, right?
He had his best season in his career, and guess what Shaquille was no where to be found. I find it amusing that you guys praise Shaquille when an old Mourning did better then him in game 6. I mean to think that Smush Parker outplays Kobe in a game 6, while winning the championships...the man would get crucified as a complete joke on here.

I'm here to put some damn sense to some of you.

how old is shaq now? if he was kobe' age wade wouldnt have been the main man for the heat. dont u understand the heat and pat wanted wade to be the man in the finals in order to beat the mavs. shaq willingly stepped down and let wade take over the game whenever he felt like it. i would feel the same like u if young shaq is outplayed by his even younger teammate a new rising star but shaq is 34 and he hasnt been very active since the last year in LA. this is totally different stuff. and r we talking about the finals right? right? the finals. for the heat wade is the man and shaq is 2nd option. shaq did what needed to be done to win, stepping down. but hey shaq had kept his promise to miami fans. he brought home nba championship trophy. and noone can say that shaq isnt the big part of the heat' success this year. noone.

[Human Error]

Should Lakers have kept Kobe or Shaq?
They should've kept Shaq and traded Kobe for McGrady, Marion or Ray Allen and they still would be winning the championship now.

This question should've died 2 years ago when Kobe led his team to 34 wins while Shaq had another MVP type season.

[Human Error]

Shaquille was no where to be found. I find it amusing that you guys praise Shaquille when an old Mourning did better then him in game 6.
No Shaq = No championship in Miami

Anyone who says Shaq wasn't a huge part of Miami's championship run deserves a smack in the mouth. Man I thought Kobe's male groupies would eventually calm down and come to their senses when Shaq wins another title without Kobe, but now they're more alive and kicking than ever, and even more annoying and idiotic.

[crisoner]

They should've kept Shaq and traded Kobe for McGrady, Marion or Ray Allen and they still would be winning the championship now.

This question should've died 2 years ago when Kobe led his team to 34 wins while Shaq had another MVP type season.

To each his own...but no way. I understand people not liking Kobe etc. but don't under estimate the mans talent. With that list you spit out Allen maybe Marion no and T-Mac is always hurt.

[West-Side]

Human Error, you live up to your username...complete moron, from head to toe. Did you read any of the posts I made you douche? Why can't you get it through your skull that Shaquille simply has more talent around him and if LA kept him...they would not be able to sign any big time free agent, at that stage Shaquille was fat and basically made Mitch pick either him or Kobe...for the future, LA made the right choice...they just didn't get enough for him, or should I say the wrong position players. They should have gotten a prolific big man such as Elton Brand and a good PG...that's would have been smarter then picking two young SF's.

[West-Side]

LA choose Kobe, because if they kept Shaquille they would have jeopardized their franchise for the future...due to Shaquille's weight issue, his toe, his gigantic contract and his health (due to being overweight)...if they traded Kobe for someone like Ray Allen, they MIGHT have won a championship next year with Shaquille, but they weren't willing to trade a superstar that they could built around for the next 10 years over a prolific center who is on the decline, and would only make them a contender for the next 2-3 years...then call it quits or just not be as effective...and I totally support what they did, just not what they got in return.

They just looked at the BIG picture, they would have gotten more out of Kobe then Shaquille...longevity wise, skill wise and salary wise.

As far as Shaquille winning another title goes, well that's because LA traded him to a team that already had an upcoming young star on the rise...remember how LA wanted Wade in that package?

Imagine if LA traded Shaquille for Garnett...LA would be winning titles right now, and Shaquille would be fishing...because Kobe would have more talent around him. Right now, Kobe is the better player...they kept the right person, you claiming that Shaquille won a championship somehow makes LA look bad, or that he got the best of Kobe...well you just showing your arrogance with that statement, and if you still don't know why...gain some comprehension skills.

[Spurs3]

LA choose Kobe, because if they kept Shaquille they would have jeopardized their franchise for the future...due to Shaquille's weight issue, his toe, his gigantic contract and his health (due to being overweight)...if they traded Kobe for someone like Ray Allen, they MIGHT have won a championship next year with Shaquille, but they weren't willing to trade a superstar that they could built around for the next 10 years over a prolific center who is on the decline, and would only make them a contender for the next 2-3 years...then call it quits or just not be as effective...and I totally support what they did, just not what they got in return.

They just looked at the BIG picture, they would have gotten more out of Kobe then Shaquille...longevity wise, skill wise and salary wise.

if LA knew that shaq would bring home another chip they would have kept shaq for sure. "for sure". but they did not b/c they doubted shaq. keeping kobe seemed to be a better option for them as he was younger and "could" probably be transformed into something like jordan pip for the lakers if they could find a great supporter like pip for him. but they forgot that kobe is no mj. he is surely the best player in the L right now in terms skills and all but he is no mj. and i doubt it that he will ever win another championship, on his own




As far as Shaquille winning another title goes, well that's because LA traded him to a team that already had an upcoming young star on the rise...remember how LA wanted Wade in that package?

you can say this right now but moths ago noone expected the heat to win it all. remember how LA wanted wade in the package? that just shows how much wade was worth before shaq went to miami. wade was just a rising star at that time. and when with shaq from a star wade had become a super star now u tell me it wasnt shaq and made wade' game easier.


Imagine if LA traded Shaquille for Garnett...LA would be winning titles right now, and Shaquille would be fishing...because Kobe would have more talent around him. Right now, Kobe is the better player...they kept the right person, you claiming that Shaquille won a championship somehow makes LA look bad, or that he got the best of Kobe...well you just showing your arrogance with that statement, and if you still don't know why...gain some comprehension skills.

stfu. its just proven that shaq could do it again. kobe + kg = chips? in ur ass. top contender, probably. but chips def'ly? u r insane.

[BOOHYAH310]

It was a lose-lose situation for the Lakers....either way they were taking themselves out of contention for a title. By breaking up a championship nucleus they had no way to go but down.

The amount of money that Shaq was asking for and the shape he was in at the time really put him out as a good option for Los Angeles. Remember Kobe at this point hasn't even hit his prime while Shaq was just about to end his prime. The climate out here in LA was that of dissapointment over just losing the championship, D Fish was gonna get an offer he couldn't refuse, Horry looked like he was on his last legs, Fox was definitely not ready to keep playing.The Malone and Payton experiment didn't work. Injuries kept Malone (who was the heart of the team) from playing. Payton was getting exposed by younger PG's (Parker,Billups). Kobe's case was like an albatross over the season....

I agree that Kobe was the correct decision

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

If Kobe decided to leave, it was going to be via S&T with the Chicago Bulls.

[glidedrxlr22]

They should've kept Shaq. Fukk Kobe.

[LakerRaider]

The Miami Heat winning the championship is quite the slap to the Laker organization. They took a gamble with Shaq to win it all right now and that's exactly what they did. Regardless of how much longer Shaq plays, he has his 4th ring, this one without Kobe Bryant.

In your opinion, did the Lakers make the right choice with Kobe's youth and marketability, or should they have kept Shaq and paired him with another elite guard to make one last championship run?

I will keep the poll tallies. I vote: keep SHAQ.
-------

SHAQ: 12

KOBE: 12


I haven't read the responses, but, WHO CARES??? Kobe Bryant and Shaquille O'Neal have moved on, why can't you??? This topic is two years too late. Drop the subject and move on.

[Human Error]

LA choose Kobe, because if they kept Shaquille they would have jeopardized their franchise for the future
Damn why is it so hard to understand for you?

The Lakers chose Kobe thinking that he would do well without Shaq because they thought Kobe was head and shoulders above any other swingmen in the league. But man how they were wrong, Kobe led the Lakers to a 34 win season with Odom and Butler as his sidekicks - the ones who took the Heat to the 2nd round with rookie Wade.

The Lakers may have thought "Wade-Odom-Butler was good enough to finish the season with a 22-5 surge and they were 6-1 against the West during that span. Kobe is inargurably better than Wade so Kobe would get the exact same squad deeper into the playoffs". But the reality was, Kobe wasn't that really special. Don't get me wrong, he's one of elite players in the league, but if you mean "Jordanesque speciality", I'm sorry.

The Laker fans seem to still think that Kobe is just flat-out better than any other player in the NBA. For years you have been saying "Kobe is no T-Mac, he'd never allow his team blow a 3-1 lead in the playoffs", "Kobe is no Iverson, no way a Kobe-led team can ever miss the playoffs"... Now all have been proved wrong, but you are still living in your fantasy.

The problem is, that Shaq deal wasn't really for future. The Lakers thought Kobe-Odom-Butler would work right away, but it didn't work. As I said earlier, I don't know why it's so hard for some of you to realize that the Lakers took the wrong road by overrating Kobe so much.

[Kobe#1fan]

Well, their isn't much to say. We keep Shaq, Kobe leaves in Free agency then we wouldnt even make the playoffs, AND have a bad future.

Shaq leaves, we don't make playoffs til the 2nd year, but we have a MUCH better future this way.

Who would be left?
C-Shaq
PF-Cook
SF-George
SG-?
PG-Payton

HAHA, You know Kobe wouldn't do a S&T, so they'd be screwed if they took Shaq over Kobe.


agreed 100%

1. age= kobe=27 shaq=34
2. last year= kobe led a team with kwame brown as the starting center to a seven game series with a top 5 team in the league. shaq average like 15 points in the finals.
3. kobe is regarded to alot as the best player in the league. shaq is not even the best center on his team
4. In conclusion ya'll who said shaq are full of sh*t.

[jjayfive]

considering the situation with weight issues and huge contract extention, i would say they made the right decision...if shaq was in great shape, it would have been a no brainer to keep him...

[jan803]

[
Damn why is it so hard to understand for you?

The Lakers chose Kobe thinking that he would do well without Shaq because they thought Kobe was head and shoulders above any other swingmen in the league. But man how they were wrong, Kobe led the Lakers to a 34 win season with Odom and Butler as his sidekicks - the ones who took the Heat to the 2nd round with rookie Wade.[\QUOTE]

this is only your opinion. if you really believe this you really have never followed the lakers or understood what lead to the trade.

the lakers choice a 25 year old who was entering his prime. upper management really f'd up in what they got in return...

what you don't realize that management knew that they were in rebuild mode. they need in 2005 that they weren't championship caliber at all. they probably expected to at least make the playoffs and then see what happened.

and naturally you're one of the types that continuing quote the 34 game season like that was ALL KOBE'S FAULT. he shoulders most of the blame only because he's the franchise player and that's part of the responsibility. but if you and others like you refuse to acknowledge a horrible offense that rudy t tried, rudy t quitting, changing the offense to the triangle, kobe w/plasir fascitis all season, crap defense, key injuries...no one could overcome all of that.

[QUOTE]The Lakers may have thought "Wade-Odom-Butler was good enough to finish the season with a 22-5 surge and they were 6-1 against the West during that span. Kobe is inargurably better than Wade so Kobe would get the exact same squad deeper into the playoffs". But the reality was, Kobe wasn't that really special. Don't get me wrong, he's one of elite players in the league, but if you mean "Jordanesque speciality", I'm sorry.

i commented above.



The Laker fans seem to still think that Kobe is just flat-out better than any other player in the NBA. For years you have been saying "Kobe is no T-Mac, he'd never allow his team blow a 3-1 lead in the playoffs", "Kobe is no Iverson, no way a Kobe-led team can ever miss the playoffs"... Now all have been proved wrong, but you are still living in your fantasy.

i've called out someone so now i'll do the same for you.

don't just talk about game 7 and not talk about the rest of the playoffs. unless you're willing to, you're just another poster who can only look at kobe's failures and not his successes and you aren't giving the full picture.


The problem is, that Shaq deal wasn't really for future. The Lakers thought Kobe-Odom-Butler would work right away, but it didn't work. As I said earlier, I don't know why it's so hard for some of you to realize that the Lakers took the wrong road by overrating Kobe so much.

uh, you already said this earlier.

we get it, you think the lakers picked the wrong guy.

fine, but your reasoning is off. kobe was a long term choice.

[Big_D_62]

They should've kept Shaq. Fukk Kobe.


my thoughts exactly

[jbot]

i don't like him, but the lakers did right by keeping kobe--he's still young and is playing the best ball of his career. shaq is getting older and won't be the same in a couple more years(unless he retires b4 then).

[Human Error]

kobe was a long term choice.
A long term choice for mediocricity.

Enjoy.

[JSub]

Human Error, good post.

[chopchop20]

Even if Kobe wins another Championship, there is those few years where, if Shaq weren't traded or if Kobe just deferred to Shaq, how many more Championships would have been won? That will be the question hanging over Kobe.

Did Wade defer to Shaq this year-- if he had, would Miami have won the the title? It think the writing was on the wall, it was Shaq's time to defer.

But suppose LA had kept Shaq. There's another factor that a lot of u are negelecting-- Shaq's $30 million a year contract. Why would you invest that kind of money in the Shaq that we saw in the Finals? Furthermore, when you talk about all these great players who would line up single file to play with Shaq, how would you be able to pay them and him?

[gunjack]

i don't know if they could do any better,
I mean the Ideal solution would be keep them both
but shaq demanded the trade because he felt that Jerry Buss was taking kobe's side
I think they could of getting better deal for shaq , if not , let him walk and save your mony from the crap you get out of Shaq

[LakersDynasty]

I will keep the poll tallies. I vote: keep SHAQ.
-------

SHAQ: 12

KOBE: 12
This is pretty funny.

[LakersRuleTheNBA]

Has Shaq even play a game this year? Miami is not even in the playoff picture in the weak east. If Shaq was still on the LA squad, we're ***! Lottery bound! Shaq is my boy though, but the man is always injured.

[jan803]

Only people who think that wouldn't have been better short term and long term for the Lakers are mindless groupie scum.

yup, that jerry buss is sure mindless groupie scum.

[jan803]

on my previous post...

i didn't realize that this thread was so old...i get tired of these kinds of responses to describe laker fans, but i were paying attention to how long ago this was posted, i would have just blown it off.

anyway, for the 1,000,000 time, unless there's someone who's an nba insider who has proof that jerry buss had some intention other that what he has publically said over and over and over about making this trade, this discussion is tired.

it was business decision, plain and simple. most people who have been posting about this back then said that this trade would take about 3 years from the time of the trade to see how it would pan out.

on the short term it looked like buss was wrong since shaq won his championship. but longterm he looks like he made the right deal since now miami has their 100mil deal w/him and he's not playing.

now we all do need to wait to see how his knee will be after all the rehab. but as of today, i'm glad that dr. buss didn't agree to pay shaq the 90mil that shaq wanted at the time.

meanwhile the lakers have moved on, added some very nice youth w/some veteran guys like kobe and lamar and we are watching a team blossom. as a fan of this team, i'm happy how things are going.

now this team has a good nucleus, more experience w/the offense and all they'll do is get better and are doing this w/o odom which for me is the biggest surprise.

maybe not this year, but next year will be very serious title contenders. if phil agrees to a contract extension then the chances are that much greater. based on the players he has now, he should agree to something.

so the future looks bright for the lakers.

i vote that dr. buss made the right decision in keeping the younger player!

[rawimpact]

bump

[TheMarkMadsen]

Looking back on it, who would have thought the Lakers ended up with the better end of that deal?

Lamar ended up being a nice piece on 2 championship teams.

Caron Butler was also nice,and it would have been amazing to keep him, but they got kwame in return from washington, which they used to package with a young marc gasol & eventually attained pau.

And that right there is why the Lakers will never be out of contention, they trade away a polorizing franchise center in shaq, get ripped off in the trade (which many thought they did) at the time, and turn it into 2 pieces that helped you win 2 championship.

Its not luck.

[Odinn]

Peak and prime wise I'd have Shaq. But Kobe was younger and he was entering his prime while Shaq getting past his. Kobe.

[Freedom Kid7]

Interesting thread in hindsight.
I've asked myself this question as well. In the short term, it was a poor decision. Kobe choked everything away in '06. He got all those 'ball hog' tags, and the Lakers were the Atlanta Hawks of the west. They couldn't do damage in the playoffs. Granted, the team he played with was terrible, but I think a part of that may involve that no one wanted to play with him. Meanwhile, Shaq enjoyed his fourth ring. Short term: Shaq should have stayed.

Skip a couple of years. Kobe matures. He gets MVP. He leads them to the finals. Doesn't win, but he comes back stronger and wins two championships back to back. He crushes the Suns and the ghosts of the past. He becomes more of a team player than previously. Still a little selfish, but he became better. Long term: Kobe stayed and it was beneficial.

Overall, the seasons between Shaq leaving and Kobe's MVP sucked and it looked to be the wrong decision, but Kobe matured and ended up winning two more rings. So the decision ended up being a good one in the long run.

[B]

Looking back on it, who would have thought the Lakers ended up with the better end of that deal?

Lamar ended up being a nice piece on 2 championship teams.

Caron Butler was also nice,and it would have been amazing to keep him, but they got kwame in return from washington, which they used to package with a young marc gasol & eventually attained pau.

And that right there is why the Lakers will never be out of contention, they trade away a polorizing franchise center in shaq, get ripped off in the trade (which many thought they did) at the time, and turn it into 2 pieces that helped you win 2 championship.

Its not luck.Anybody who followed the Lakers with a clear head knew letting Shaq go and keeping Kobe was the only decision to be made.

It was a good move for Shaq too, relit a fire that had burned out a couple years earlier. Shaq had become too satisfied with himself in LA.

[1987_Lakers]

Trade Kobe for TMac, or for a package of good players. The Lakers would have kept right on winning.

That said, as a Celtics fan I'm glad the Lakers blew this one. :D

lol

[Heavincent]

Trade Kobe for TMac, or for a package of good players. The Lakers would have kept right on winning.

That said, as a Celtics fan I'm glad the Lakers blew this one. :D

:roll:

Oh how things have changed.

[kennethgriffin]

in a way losing to detroit was the best thing that could have happend to the lakers

if they win. they give 350 pound overweight out of shaq that 30 mill extension he was asking for... that would have totally changed everything

then no odom
no gasol
no bynum

just kobe and shaq till shaq retired or kobe ditched them for chicago or the clippers

[nashwade]

shaq lost his championship value the year after he won in 2006

definitely kep Kobe

[Deuce Bigalow]

Trade Kobe for TMac, or for a package of good players. The Lakers would have kept right on winning.

That said, as a Celtics fan I'm glad the Lakers blew this one. :D
http://legacy-cdn.smosh.com/smosh-pit/012011/situation-omg.gif

[Freedom Kid7]

rade Kobe for TMac, or for a package of good players. The Lakers would have kept right on winning.

That said, as a Celtics fan I'm glad the Lakers blew this one. :D
http://i.imgur.com/n8xP0.gif
:lol . The things time changes.

[amfirst]

Now how the hell would they keep winning with Shaq without paring him with a elite wing player. As I remember the Lakers got some crappy players after Shaq left. Not until Gasol arrived, but Shaq would be way over the hill by then.

Best move was to keep the young player and win 2 more rings and perhaps more.

[AlonzoGOAT]

Originally Posted by JohnnySic
Trade Kobe for TMac, or for a package of good players. The Lakers would have kept right on winning.

That said, as a Celtics fan I'm glad the Lakers blew this one.


http://gifs.gifbin.com/1232550297_Dramatic%20chipmunk.gif

[1987_Lakers]

Trade Kobe for TMac, or for a package of good players. The Lakers would have kept right on winning.

That said, as a Celtics fan I'm glad the Lakers blew this one. :D

Holy shit can you imagine if the Lakers traded Kobe for T-Mac? Lakers would stop compeating for titles by 2007 and would probably be a lottery team by 2009.

Instead we keep Kobe and beat the Celtics in the Finals in 2010.:oldlol:

[swag2011]

Now how the hell would they keep winning with Shaq without paring him with a elite wing player. As I remember the Lakers got some crappy players after Shaq left. Not until Gasol arrived, but Shaq would be way over the hill by then.

Best move was to keep the young player and win 2 more rings and perhaps more.

It's funny, haters always say Kobe needed a big man, or the best big man in the L to win (Shaq or Gasol), but they never mention that Shaq needed an elite wing (Kobe, Wade) to win as well.

But of course that doesn't fit the Kobe hater logic, so the double standards must continue against Kobe.

Lakers made the best decision. Shaq left because he requested to, and b/c of his outrageous contract demands. He was 34 when he asked for that amount, and i can tell you right now, Kobe turns 34 next month, i really can't see Jim buss offering Kobe the amount Shaq wanted, considering how he performed last season. And i say this as the biggest Kobe stan in here.

best to keep the younger star and try to win more. I think Shaq's contract demands just made it easier for the Lakers to choose Kobe.

[Freedom Kid7]

It's funny, haters always say Kobe needed a big man, or the best big man in the L to win (Shaq or Gasol), but they never mention that Shaq needed an elite wing (Kobe, Wade) to win as well.

To be fair, I feel like you could use the same argument for Magic and Kareem. Kareem always needed a solid Point Guard to win (Oscar in 71, Magic in the 80s). However, when Kareem left, Magic couldn't win because he didn't have a center as good as Kareem. Maybe in another couple of years, Kobe and Shaq will be looked upon like that. Who knows? :confusedshrug:

[Deuce Bigalow]

It's funny, haters always say Kobe needed a big man, or the best big man in the L to win (Shaq or Gasol), but they never mention that Shaq needed an elite wing (Kobe, Wade) to win as well.

But of course that doesn't fit the Kobe hater logic, so the double standards must continue against Kobe.

Lakers made the best decision. Shaq left because he requested to, and b/c of his outrageous contract demands. He was 34 when he asked for that amount, and i can tell you right now, Kobe turns 34 next month, i really can't see Jim buss offering Kobe the amount Shaq wanted, considering how he performed last season. And i say this as the biggest Kobe stan in here.

best to keep the younger star and try to win more. I think Shaq's contract demands just made it easier for the Lakers to choose Kobe.
Kobe will get paid 31.5 million in 2013-14

[swag2011]

Kobe will get paid 31.5 million in 2013-14

I mean if he were going into contract negotiations now, like today. He signed an extension to his current contract back in 2010

[KyrieTheFuture]

I say Kobe shouldn't have been a baby and they would have won like 8

[JM720]

I say Kobe shouldn't have been a baby and they would have won like 8

Shaq problems with Penny
Shaq problems with Kobe
Shaq problems with Wade
Shaq problems with Nash

[LakersReign]

It's funny, haters always say Kobe needed a big man, or the best big man in the L to win (Shaq or Gasol), but they never mention that Shaq needed an elite wing (Kobe, Wade) to win as well.

But of course that doesn't fit the Kobe hater logic, so the double standards must continue against Kobe.

Lakers made the best decision. Shaq left because he requested to, and b/c of his outrageous contract demands. He was 34 when he asked for that amount, and i can tell you right now, Kobe turns 34 next month, i really can't see Jim buss offering Kobe the amount Shaq wanted, considering how he performed last season. And i say this as the biggest Kobe stan in here.

best to keep the younger star and try to win more. I think Shaq's contract demands just made it easier for the Lakers to choose Kobe.

That's why it's a complete waste of time even trying to engage them in a basketball conversation. The minute you say something remotely complementary towards the guy, you're AUTOMATICALLY a kobetard or some hilarious variation thereof. Then they claim to be REAL basketball fans, which it's clear is an OBVIOUS lie.

[lakersfan2046]

Kobe of course. Shaq was old and fat and totally unmotivated

[chazzy]

Knoe Itawl
God damn, dude has been angry for years

[talkingconch]

Yup. Enjoy the Lakers making the "right" choice by keeping Kobe when the team gets nowhere near a title anytime soon.

You're the type of person that I don't think even CARES about a title. If you had a choice between getting rid of Kobe for a better chance at a title, or keeping him with less of a chance you'd choose keeping him.

Maybe if you admitted that, I'd have more respect for you.
https://dl.dropbox.com/u/30988509/lol-eccbc87e4b5ce2fe28308fd9f2a7baf3-350.gif

[BlackVVaves]

If they keep Shaq and trade Kobe for any other allstar, they win championship after championship.


Its obvious the Lakers made a HUGE mistake by keeping the Bean.

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lybu1n0V4t1qdlh1io1_400.gif

[bdreason]

They won two championships by keeping Kobe, so you can't really argue with results. Would they have won more than 2 more titles before Shaq was done? I don't think so.




Now, what they got in return for Shaq is questionable. And signing Kobe to a deal that pays him 30 million a year when he's past 30 was a mistake. Personally, I think they should have resigned both guys, and told them stop being little bytches, and go win 3 more titles.

[Overdrive]

That's why it's a complete waste of time even trying to engage them in a basketball conversation. The minute you say something remotely complementary towards the guy, you're AUTOMATICALLY a kobetard or some hilarious variation thereof. Then they claim to be REAL basketball fans, which it's clear is an OBVIOUS lie.

Some, people don't appreciate what Shaq has done for the Lakers. Yes, he bolted away in a bad fashion, but he brought the franchise 3 titles. Kobe was huge in 2 of them but they wouldn't have won with Mourning instead of Shaq.

Then you, who claims to be big Lakersfans, since the "post Magic-before Kobe/Shaq"-days disregards Shaq. Be grateful if you're a true Lakersfan.

I'm a huge Shaqfan and don't really like Kobe, but it would've been stupid to keep Shaq or both.
I would've loved for Shaq to stay a Laker and win Chips with Kobe, because they were a great duo, but their salarydemands would have killed any chances doing so. The roster got worth each year they played together and had to be fixed in 2004 by acquiring has beens to fill the needs for one season. Sometimes this recipe works, like this year's Heat getting huge contributions by Battier in the finals, but most of the time it won't.

Trading Kobe would've brought in the same playertype for the same amount of time, but in hindsight minus the longevity(T-Mac, VC), so it would've been Chip or Bust. Unlike Kobe they never have been on the biggest stage, so why should've trade a guy who put up FMVP numbers in 2 Finals for guys who most of the time can't get past the first round?

So they kept the young guy and added a Championshippiece in Odom through the ST which isn't that bad actually since most STs get you nothing back aside from some picks.

[LakersReign]

Some, people don't appreciate what Shaq has done for the Lakers. Yes, he bolted away in a bad fashion, but he brought the franchise 3 titles. Kobe was huge in 2 of them but they wouldn't have won with Mourning instead of Shaq.

Then you, who claims to be big Lakersfans, since the "post Magic-before Kobe/Shaq"-days disregards Shaq. Be grateful if you're a true Lakersfan.

I'm a huge Shaqfan and don't really like Kobe, but it would've been stupid to keep Shaq or both.
I would've loved for Shaq to stay a Laker and win Chips with Kobe, because they were a great duo, but their salarydemands would have killed any chances doing so. The roster got worth each year they played together and had to be fixed in 2004 by acquiring has beens to fill the needs for one season. Sometimes this recipe works, like this year's Heat getting huge contributions by Battier in the finals, but most of the time it won't.

Trading Kobe would've brought in the same playertype for the same amount of time, but in hindsight minus the longevity(T-Mac, VC), so it would've been Chip or Bust. Unlike Kobe they never have been on the biggest stage, so why should've trade a guy who put up FMVP numbers in 2 Finals for guys who most of the time can't get past the first round?

So they kept the young guy and added a Championshippiece in Odom through the ST which isn't that bad actually since most STs get you nothing back aside from some picks.

My only issue is how Kobe haters want to ONLY try and give Shaq all the credit for those 3 titles, when it was BOTH Shaq and Kobe who won. Niether can take full credit. I am grateful for him being a part of that, I just hate the b***hassness he got on with when he asked to be traded. Shaq did himself a disservice by not taking better care of himself. He ended up being injury prone and lazy. IMO, had he put more effort into being "The Dominator" rather than being a Hollywood star, his career may have turned out way differently.

[swag2011]

My only issue is how Kobe haters want to ONLY try and give Shaq all the credit for those 3 titles, when it was BOTH Shaq and Kobe who won. Niether can take full credit. I am grateful for him being a part of that, I just hate the b***hassness he got on with when he asked to be traded. Shaq did himself a disservice by not taking better care of himself. He ended up being injury prone and lazy. IMO, had he put more effort into being "The Dominator" rather than being a Hollywood star, his career may have turned out way differently.

Agree. that's my problem as well. And then when you show them the stats he put up during that 3 peat, they disregard them because he didn't win FMVP. Yet i hear no one trying to downplay all 6 of Kareem's titles, when he only won FMVP twice. No one does that with Magic's 5 titles, when he won FMVP 3 times. No one does it with Bird's 3 titles, when he won FMVP twice. I could go on and on with Shaq and Duncan as well. But it's a WHOLE NOTHER story when it comes to Kobe. Apparently, he's carried, yet the others weren't.

[LakersReign]

Agree. that's my problem as well. And then when you show them the stats he put up during that 3 peat, they disregard them because he didn't win FMVP. Yet i hear no one trying to downplay all 6 of Kareem's titles, when he only won FMVP twice. No one does that with Magic's 5 titles, when he won FMVP 3 times. No one does it with Bird's 3 titles, when he won FMVP twice. I could go on and on with Shaq and Duncan as well. But it's a WHOLE NOTHER story when it comes to Kobe. Apparently, he's carried, yet the others weren't.

Yeah, it's a hilariously bogus double standard that exists in their hater minds, which they try to get other people to buy into. They're well quick to jump to Lebron's defense the minute people say something PERCEIVED as negative towards Lebron. But seems to forget that when it comes to Kobe, it's ALWAYS....ONLY negative things about Kobe. Yeah Kobe was carried but Lebron won all by himself. Then they expect people to take them seriously as far as basketball knowledge.

[Punpun]

That's because Worthy carried them tho.

[francesco totti]

keep kobe, he was younger and had more left in him.
Shaq won immediately one, but in long run kobe got two ..one more then shaq.

if they were same age, would have kept shaq.

[I LUV KOBE]

GAWDBe

[Punpun]

One finals trip with Shaq vs 3 with Kobe.

Though choice.

:yaohappy:

[dabulls23]

kobe, better longevity and versatile enough to help the team in an elite level..
and i mean he won with gasol and as a leader twice.. i don't think the lakers would've won with the injury prone t mac

[Horatio33]

As much as I dislike Kobe I would pick KOBE. He was younger, entering his prime, the most popular player on the team. Jerry Buss said fan mail was in 4-1 in favour of Kobe over Shaq. Shaq's production was going down, and he was becoming less of the dominant force he was.

[White Mamba]

:biggums: kobe

[longtime lurker]

Its funny to see the same Kobe haters that said 6 years ago that the Lakers with Kobe would be mediocre refuse to give him any credit now despite 3 straight finals, 2 championships and the fact that he still has his team in title contention to this day.

[ImmortalD24]

Its funny to see the same Kobe haters that said 6 years ago that the Lakers with Kobe would be mediocre refuse to give him any credit now despite 3 straight finals, 2 championships and the fact that he still has his team in title contention to this day.
Some people are just too stubborn and will delude themselves to stick with their initial position despite all logic. They invested so much emotion, that they're well past the point of no return.. This is unfortunately one of man’s worst traits.

[DirtySanchez]

Still say Kobe.
Best poster ever

[LamarOdom]

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lybu1n0V4t1qdlh1io1_400.gif

Hahaha fack u sitting in the subway just saw this and i laugh my ass of every1 was looking at me lik wtf

[BlackVVaves]

Hahaha fack u sitting in the subway just saw this and i laugh my ass of every1 was looking at me lik wtf
:lol

:cheers:

[DKLaker]

Its funny to see the same Kobe haters that said 6 years ago that the Lakers with Kobe would be mediocre refuse to give him any credit now despite 3 straight finals, 2 championships and the fact that he still has his team in title contention to this day.

Haters gonna hate but now they're choking on their haterade :cheers:

[LakersReign]

[QUOTE=ImmortalD24]Some people are just too stubborn and will delude themselves to stick with their initial position despite all logic. They invested so much emotion, that they're well past the point of no return.. This is unfortunately one of man

[PickernRoller]

Haters gonna hate but now they're choking on their haterade :cheers:

It's called haterardness, being a hater and a retard at the same time.

[Bigsmoke]

lol @ keeping Shaq over Kobe :lol

you rather build a team around someone who's 32 years old that was getting paid 24 million and weighed like 360 over Kobe who was 25 :oldlol: