Is there a songwriter better than John Lennon?

[Go Getter]

(English speaking of course)

I've been on a Beatles/Lennon kick and I must say that his songwriting might just be tops in my book.

And yours?

[Nick Young]

loads and loads
Lou Reed
Neil Young
David Bowie
Frank Black
Isaac Brock
Nick Cave
Marvin Gaye
Otis Redding

ok not loads and loads but many

[dee-rose]

yes.

[Go Getter]

Yesterday=most covered song ever.

Not to many songs are close to perfect but this might be one of them.

[Nick Young]

Yesterday=most covered song ever.

Not to many songs are close to perfect but this might be one of them.
http://www.demotivationalposters.org/image/demotivational-poster/0906/godzilla-facepalm-godzilla-facepalm-face-palm-epic-fail-demotivational-poster-1245384435.jpg
Paul McCartney wrote Yesterday all by himself YOU BIG DUMMEH:facepalm

[Go Getter]

http://www.demotivationalposters.org/image/demotivational-poster/0906/godzilla-facepalm-godzilla-facepalm-face-palm-epic-fail-demotivational-poster-1245384435.jpg
Paul McCartney wrote Yesterday all by himself YOU BIG DUMMEH:facepalm

Lennon doesn't match up well against Reed, Bowie, Redding and Gaye


Hey, like I said, I just started listening the the Beatles....and I don't know much about two of those guys....I don't agree with Otis Redding though.

[Nick Young]

Hey, like I said, I just started listening the the Beatles....and I don't know much about two of those guys....I don't agree with Otis Redding though.
Brian Wilson also better than Lennon. And Van Morrison, because these guys wrote songs all by themselves, Lennon had Harrison and McCartney.

Forgot about Bruce Springsteen and Bob Dylan too!


Because with Lennon his solo work is on the whole not amazing, though he has some great songs. It is only when teaming up with McCartney when he came up with his most amazing songs, they were the perfect team, better than the sum of their parts.

[Go Getter]

Brian Wilson also better than Lennon. And Van Morrison, because these guys wrote songs all by themselves, Lennon had Harrison and McCartney.

Forgot about Bruce Springsteen and Bob Dylan too!


Because with Lennon his solo work is on the whole not amazing, though he has some great songs. It is only when teaming up with McCartney when he came up with his most amazing songs, they were the perfect team, better than the sum of their parts.
Gaye (I know for sure) and Redding both had help writing as well.

I'm not saying Lennon was the best (he's my fav of the moment) I was just trying to have a discussion on songwriters.

[TheBall]

For me Lennon is best :-) I am also big fan of him. My fav from him is Strawberry Fields Forever. But ofcourse i like McCartney and Harrison. As for this Lennon had McCartney and Harrison, yes if you look Beatles as 1 person since a lot of the songs wrote Lennon/McCartney but there also many that they wrote alone. Also i think Lennon after Beatles work is great :-)

[iamgine]

It was said that Michael Jackson wrote a lot of his songs.

[Go Getter]

It was said that Michael Jackson wrote a lot of his songs.
:oldlol:

I saw an interview with Paul McCartney and i swear he wanted to beat the paste out of Michael for buying the rights to the Beatles catalog.

[TheBall]

It was said that Michael Jackson wrote a lot of his songs.

that must be the dumbest thing i read recently. Where did u read/hear that?

[iamgine]

I meant that it was said that Michael Jackson wrote a lot of his OWN songs. NOT John Lennon's songs. :oldlol:

[Go Getter]

Actually I heard the opposite..that Paul, a rock singer who's name escapes me, and others wrote his best hits.

[iamgine]

According to Wiki, these are the songs written by MJ either by himself or collaboratively.

2000 Watts (Michael Jackson song)
2300 Jackson Street (song)
Another Part of Me
Bad (Michael Jackson song)
Beat It
Behind the Mask (song)
Billie Jean
Black or White
Blood on the Dance Floor (song)
Breaking News (song)
Can You Feel It
Centipede (song)
Cheater (song)
D.S. (song)
Dangerous (Michael Jackson song)
Dirty Diana
Do the Bartman
Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough
Don't Stop the Music (Rihanna song)
Don't Walk Away (Michael Jackson song)
Earth Song
Eat It
Eaten Alive (song)
Fat (song)
Get It (song)
The Girl Is Mine
Give In to Me
Heal the World
Heaven Can Wait (Michael Jackson song)
HIStory/Ghosts
Hollywood Tonight
I Just Can't Stop Loving You
(I Like) The Way You Love Me
In the Closet
Is It Scary
Jam (song)
Keep On, Keepin' On
Leave Me Alone
Liberian Girl
Lovely One
Mind Is The Magic: Anthem For The Las Vegas Show
Morphine (song)
Muscles (song)
Night Time Lover
A Place with No Name
Privacy (Michael Jackson song)
Remember the Time
Say Say Say
Scream/Childhood
Shake Your Body (Down to the Ground)
Smooth Criminal
Speechless (Michael Jackson song)
Speed Demon (song)
State of Shock
Stranger in Moscow
Tabloid Junkie
They Don't Care About Us
This Is It (Michael Jackson song)
This Place Hotel
This Time Around (Michael Jackson song)
Unbreakable (Michael Jackson song)
Walk Right Now
Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
The Way You Make Me Feel
We Are Here to Change the World
We Are the World
We Are the World 25 for Haiti
We Are the World 25 for Haiti (YouTube Edition)
What More Can I Give
Whatever Happens
Who Is It (Michael Jackson song)
Will You Be There
You Rock My World

[Nick Young]

Yeh Jackson wrote alot of songs by himself, thought people knew this, including Billie Jean

[Go Getter]

According to Wiki, these are the songs written by MJ either by himself or collaboratively.

2000 Watts (Michael Jackson song)
2300 Jackson Street (song)
Another Part of Me
Bad (Michael Jackson song)
Beat It
Behind the Mask (song)
Billie Jean
Black or White
Blood on the Dance Floor (song)
Breaking News (song)
Can You Feel It
Centipede (song)
Cheater (song)
D.S. (song)
Dangerous (Michael Jackson song)
Dirty Diana
Do the Bartman
Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough
Don't Stop the Music (Rihanna song)
Don't Walk Away (Michael Jackson song)
Earth Song
Eat It
Eaten Alive (song)
Fat (song)
Get It (song)
The Girl Is Mine
Give In to Me
Heal the World
Heaven Can Wait (Michael Jackson song)
HIStory/Ghosts
Hollywood Tonight
I Just Can't Stop Loving You
(I Like) The Way You Love Me
In the Closet
Is It Scary
Jam (song)
Keep On, Keepin' On
Leave Me Alone
Liberian Girl
Lovely One
Mind Is The Magic: Anthem For The Las Vegas Show
Morphine (song)
Muscles (song)
Night Time Lover
A Place with No Name
Privacy (Michael Jackson song)
Remember the Time
Say Say Say
Scream/Childhood
Shake Your Body (Down to the Ground)
Smooth Criminal
Speechless (Michael Jackson song)
Speed Demon (song)
State of Shock
Stranger in Moscow
Tabloid Junkie
They Don't Care About Us
This Is It (Michael Jackson song)
This Place Hotel
This Time Around (Michael Jackson song)
Unbreakable (Michael Jackson song)
Walk Right Now
Wanna Be Startin' Somethin'
The Way You Make Me Feel
We Are Here to Change the World
We Are the World
We Are the World 25 for Haiti
We Are the World 25 for Haiti (YouTube Edition)
What More Can I Give
Whatever Happens
Who Is It (Michael Jackson song)
Will You Be There
You Rock My World
MJ definitely did not write Eat It that was Weird Al.

Most of these songs are terrible compared to his best imo.

[Nick Young]

MJ definitely did not write Eat It that was Weird Al.

Most of these songs are terrible compared to his best imo.
Billie Jean, Beat It, Black and White, We are the World, Dirty Diana, bad, another part of me, Keep it in the closet, smooth criminal, what are you on about those are his best songs

[L.Kizzle]

Smokey Robinson, Curtis Mayfield, Bobby Womack, Stevie Wonder.

[FatComputerNerd]

Dylan
Simon and Garfunkel
Leonard Cohen
Shane MacGowan
Roger Waters
Robert Hunter


Dunno that I'd say all of the above are "better", but they certainly deserve mention.

[Nick Young]

Yeh Shane! Used to be my favorite shit from 14-18, dunno how I could have forgotten him, you ever heard the Greenland Whalefishers, the songs are like bad pogues ripoffs but the singer sounds exactly the same as prime Shane McGowan, got a decent version of fields of athenry

saw their christmas show last year at the Brixton academy, still the best live band in the world

[FatComputerNerd]

Yeh Shane! Used to be my favorite shit from 14-18, dunno how I could have forgotten him, you ever heard the Greenland Whalefishers, the songs are like bad pogues ripoffs but the singer sounds exactly the same as prime Shane McGowan, got a decent version of fields of athenry

Haven't heard them but The Greenland Whale Fisheries was also a song that The Pogues did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtdnJBQyQJU

That's one he didn't write though, actually, but most of their great songs he did.

[FatComputerNerd]

saw their christmas show last year at the Brixton academy, still the best live band in the world

Lucky! :cheers:

[Nick Young]

Haven't heard them but The Greenland Whale Fisheries was also a song that The Pogues did.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gtdnJBQyQJU

That's one he didn't write though, actually, but most of their great songs he did.
yep you got good taste man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amubd0XCJI0

listen to this, it's not the pogues but its the best can get, sound like red roses for me era pogues


"Being a rock wife is a little like being an arctic explorer, in that it's not necessarily something you do for the good of your health. It's not a sensible thing to be. I first realised the enormity of the gulf between what is considered normal in a relationship and what I had always taken for granted in mine when I was called from my bed, one night many years ago, by the landlady of my boyfriend, Shane MacGowan. She had heard strange noises coming from his flat at the top floor of her respectable town house. On attempting to gain entry, she was forced to retreat by Shane, who stood at the top of the stairs - blood gushing from his mouth, teeth akimbo - and hurled an acoustic guitar at her.

Shane is a well-known musician with a reputation for drug and alcohol-fuelled impropriety, so his landlady was, in fact, prepared for a certain amount of unsociable disturbance when she took him on as a tenant. The blood, however, alarmed her, along with the fact that in one hand he had been holding a half-eaten Beach Boys record, their Greatest Hits, Volume Three.

When I arrived, in my capacity as the girlfriend, to sort things out, Shane calmed down enough to explain to me that he had taken 15 or 20 tabs of acid earlier in the evening, and had become convinced that the third world war was taking place and that he, as the leader of the Irish republic, was holding a summit meeting in his kitchen between the heads of state of the world superpowers, Russia, China, America and Ireland. In order to demonstrate the cultural inferiority of the United States, he was eating a Beach Boys album. "
shane macgowan, the last true rock star, what a legend, you should read his autobiography too, it's just interviews his ex-wife did of him so its basically just him sitting in a bar telling stories about his life, amazing

[FatComputerNerd]

yep you got good taste man

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amubd0XCJI0

listen to this, it's not the pogues but its the best can get, sound like red roses for me era pogues


Wow, that does sound a lot like him. Are you sure it's not him singing? The resemblance is uncanny!

Did you also like Shane's solo stuff or the stuff he did with "The Popes"? He was past his prime I suppose by that point, but some of it was quite good. I think they only did 2 albums: "The Crock of Gold", and The Snake". Both are worth a listen if you're a fan.

*edit* well if you've read his BIO I suppose you must know about all his projects like The Popes.

Nice to find another b-ball fan who actually likes this stuff. Most people I meet have never even heard of him, lol. Then many of the ones who have only know Fairytale of NY, and think all they did was drinking music. He is/was one of the most talented songwriters ever IMO, and one could even go so far as to call him a poet. I rank him right up there w/ Dylan and the other great songwriters.

[Go Getter]

Billie Jean, Beat It, Black and White, We are the World, Dirty Diana, bad, another part of me, Keep it in the closet, smooth criminal, what are you on about those are his best songs


Black and White, Dirty Diana, Another Part of Me, and Bad weren't among my personal favorites.....and We are the World was just....terrible.:facepalm


But I will admit if this list IS true to some extent (c'mon now we KNOW he didn't write Eat It) I concede that I underestimated his writing skills.

[Nick Young]

Nice to find another b-ball fan who actually likes this stuff. Most people I meet have never even heard of him, lol. Then many of the ones who have only know Fairytale of NY, and think all they did was drinking music. He is/was one of the most talented songwriters ever IMO, and one could even go so far as to call him a poet. I rank him right up there w/ Dylan and the other great songwriters.
Yeh I dunno why i dig the music so much Im not even Irish and disliked Dublin when I went there but I got into it because I used to like flogging molly and dropkick murphys when I was 13 then I heard the pogues and never listened to FM or dropkicks again.

Shane MacGowan ranks up there with WB Yeats, Brendan Behan, and James Joyce, the great Irish writers, he is already considered a national treasure in Ireland and his songs have been inducted into the official ireland folk song registry (it has some wierd Irish name I cant remember) which I think never happens to songwriters who aren't dead. So much soul and timelessness and passion behind the music, what a legend, shame he isnt bigger than he is, he should be an international celebrity the same as Bob Marley

[FatComputerNerd]

Yeh I dunno why i dig the music so much Im not even Irish and disliked Dublin when I went there but I got into it because I used to like flogging molly and dropkick murphys when I was 13 then I heard the pogues and never listened to FM or dropkicks again.

Shane MacGowan ranks up there with WB Yeats, Brendan Behan, and James Joyce, the great Irish writers, he is already considered a national treasure in Ireland and his songs have been inducted into the official ireland folk song registry (it has some wierd Irish name I cant remember) which I think never happens to songwriters who aren't dead. So much soul and timelessness and passion behind the music, what a legend, shame he isnt bigger than he is, he should be an international celebrity the same as Bob Marley

I first heard them when I was 16 or 17 I think. A friend of mine was into them and was playing "Rum, Sodomy and the Lash". I got real into them and wore that CD out pretty quick. It wasn't for a few years that I discovered his other stuff but gradually I got more and more of their stuff (mind you this was in the early-mid 90s, well before torrents), and they're my favorite band to this day. I too have absolutely no Irish in me; just love the music.

Its hard to pick a favorite album, but I think if I had to I might actually go with Hells Ditch. I love their stuff that they incorporated Spanish and Middle Eastern sounds into. I think that is also when Shane really came into his own as a lyricist...on songs like Lorcas Novena, Wake of the Medussa, and Hells Ditch. There were also a few songs like this (such as "turkish song of the damned", from if I should fall from grace) scattered around their other albums, but Hells Ditch really put the spotlight on it.

Don't get me wrong though, I also love the trad. Irish, and punk stuff they did.

[BRabbiT]

Dylan






this.

[iamgine]

I think these are Michael Jackson's popular songs that he wrote himself/collaborate. Might be forgetting some.


Bad

Beat It

Billie Jean

Black or White

Do the Bartman

Don't Stop 'til You Get Enough

Earth Song

The Girl Is Mine

Heal the World

I Just Can't Stop Loving You

Remember the Time

Scream

Childhood

Smooth Criminal

They Don't Care About Us

The Way You Make Me Feel

We Are the World

Will You Be There

You Rock My World

[lakers_forever]

He is among the best. The Beatles is my all time favourite band. But no one is a greater songwriter than Bob Dylan.

[Nick Young]

yeh hell's ditch and rum sodomy and red roses for me are my top 3 in that order

[VishaltotheG]

Tim McIlrath and Maynard James Keenan are pretty good

[Nick Young]

Tim McIlrath and Maynard James Keenan are pretty good
http://i55.tinypic.com/29qo64p.jpg

[TheMan]

Brian Wilson also better than Lennon. And Van Morrison, because these guys wrote songs all by themselves, Lennon had Harrison and McCartney.

Forgot about Bruce Springsteen and Bob Dylan too!


Because with Lennon his solo work is on the whole not amazing, though he has some great songs. It is only when teaming up with McCartney when he came up with his most amazing songs, they were the perfect team, better than the sum of their parts.
I hate to nitpick but Lennon wrote most of the songs he did by himself, as did McCartney, early on they had an agreement that they would give each other songwriting credit even though only either Lennon or McCartney wrote the song by themselves.That's why every song was credited as Lennon/MCartney...you can tell who wrote the song by who sang it, only a few times did John or Paul write a song and felt the song was a better fit for the other one to sing but usually if Lennon wrote the song, he'd sing it, same with Paul.
Harrison was credited by himself on the songs he wrote and he'd sing it himself.

And yes, Lennon was the greatest rock song writer ever with McCartney a close second.

[Led Balls]

I hate to nitpick but Lennon wrote most of the songs he did by himself, as did McCartney, early on they had an agreement that they would.give each other songwriting credit even though only either Lennon or McCartney wrote the song by themselves.That's why every song was credited as Lennon/MCartney...you can tell who wrote thesong by who sang it, only a few times did John or Paul write a song and felt the song was a better fit for the other one to sing but uaually if Lennon wrote the song, he'd sing it, same with Paul.
Harrison was credited by himself on the songs he wrote and he'd sing it himself.

And yes, Lennon was the greatest rock song writer ever with McCartney a close second.

:wtf:
Their music was more pop than rock.

[gigantes]

this guy was pretty damn great.
http://img.izismile.com/img/img8/20150113/1000/daily_gifdump_756_29.gif

his talents ran deep, in many directions, altho that was certainly true of lennon as well.

[Real14]

I am.

[JohnFreeman]

Lennon is honestly top 3, with McCartney

[NumberSix]

The Beatles together as a group were great songwriters. Besides that, how many really great songs did any of them write as solo artists?

[L.Kizzle]

Curtis Mayfield and Bobby Womack

[Cactus-Sack]

Paul and George were better songwriters than John was. Their post-Beatles success proved it.

George released All Things Must Past, one of the greatest albums ever made. Paul had a huge success with Wings.

John had the hit song, Imagine. That was it!

Pretty myuch came here to post this. DMV got in two years early doee.

[Cactus-Sack]

The Beatles together as a group were great songwriters. Besides that, how many really great songs did any of them write as solo artists?

Harrison and McCartney wrote tons of great music afterwards. Wings has seven fantastic albums.

[NumberSix]

Harrison and McCartney wrote tons of great music afterwards. Wings has seven fantastic albums.
Nothing like what they did with the Beatles.

[Nowitness]

Yes. The dude stole material and made poor music anyway.

Beefheart/Zappa >>>> Anything Lennon/Beatles.

[masonanddixon]

Steely Dan writes better songs.

But to be honest if you were to write out the lyrics to your favorite songs on a sheet of paper and read it out loud, you'd realize that songwriters are a joke compared to real writers/novelists.

[JohnFreeman]

Steely Dan writes better songs.

But to be honest if you were to write out the lyrics to your favorite songs on a sheet of paper and read it out loud, you'd realize that songwriters are a joke compared to real writers/novelists.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[masonanddixon]

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Sorry you don't know music, son.

[masonanddixon]

Also I forgot about Joni Mitchell. She's one of the three or so best songwriters of the era

[JohnFreeman]

Also I forgot about Joni Mitchell. She's one of the three or so best songwriters of the era
:roll:

[masonanddixon]

:roll:

Are you 12 years old, son?

[gigantes]

Also I forgot about Joni Mitchell. She's one of the three or so best songwriters of the era
i like joni mitchell and her unique singing style and crazy guitar tunings.

what do you like about her, masonanddixon?

[masonanddixon]

i like joni mitchell and her unique singing style and crazy guitar tunings.

what do you like about her, masonanddixon?

What isn't there to like about her? One of the GOAT songwriters, wrote and composed her own music, is deeply caring for the environment and passionate and independent...she's what all women should strive to be like.

These guys are pretty legit record reviewers and they give her basically some of the highest marks of any musician.

http://www.warr.org/joni.html

[StephHamann]

(English speaking of course)

I've been on a Beatles/Lennon kick and I must say that his songwriting might just be tops in my book.

And yours?

Pitbull

[Cactus-Sack]

Nothing like what they did with the Beatles.

No one has a better songwriting history than the Beatles from Hard Days Night-Let it Be/Abbey Road.

[JohnFreeman]

No one has a better songwriting history than the Beatles from Hard Days Night-Let it Be/Abbey Road.
This is true. Lennon had tonnes of number ones, and McCartney with Wings

[Cactus-Sack]

This is true. Lennon had tonnes of number ones, and McCartney with Wings
GOAT duo, but Lennon/ Lennon/Yoko sucked.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Paul and George were better songwriters than John was. Their post-Beatles success proved it.

George released All Things Must Past, one of the greatest albums ever made. Paul had a huge success with Wings.

John had the hit song, Imagine. That was it!

George shot his load with that album doe, and his Beatles output doesn't begin to compare to John's. Solo John wrote more memorable songs anyway--his biggest hits were "Whatever Gets You Through the Night" and "Just Like (Starting Over)". Both topped the charts. "Imagine" was only considered his 5th biggest hit when he died, though it would later become his signature song.

http://www.billboard.com/articles/list/513487/john-lennons-top-10-albums-singles

Most songwriters have a 'classic period' they are almost never able to top, so it's no surprise that the solo Beatles, despite a few moments of brilliance from John/Paul/George, were never as good after splitting up in 1970. Bowie was iffy after "Let's Dance", Stevie Wonder and Elton John were meh in the 80s, and the Stones borderline sucked after "Some Girls". Even GOAT candidates like Neil Young, Bob Dylan, and Van Morrison saw their 'classic periods' largely confined to their 20s and early 30s.

As for McCartney, yeah he wrote a ton hits with Wings. But history (and the critics) have not been kind to him. Mostly unsubstantial pop fluff.

[ThePhantomCreep]

loads and loads
Lou Reed
Neil Young
David Bowie
Frank Black
Isaac Brock
Nick Cave
Marvin Gaye
Otis Redding

ok not loads and loads but many

Neil Young and David Bowie are legit picks. I disagree that they trump John, but they're legit. The rest are not, especially the dude from Modest Mouse. Get real.

[Cactus-Sack]

Neil Young and David Bowie are legit picks. I disagree that they trump John, but they're legit. The rest are not, especially the dude from Modest Mouse. Get real.

Frank Black takes twenty shits all over Lennon. What are you smoking.

[ThePhantomCreep]

Frank Black takes twenty shits all over Lennon. What are you smoking.


The Pixies had two good albums, several average ones, and he posts this. :roll: :facepalm

[Jailblazers7]

Springsteen will always be my personal favorite.

[gigantes]

George shot his load with [All Things must Pass] doe...
i wouldn't say that. it was his best album for sure, but he made a lot of nice songs in the years afterwards. more perky in tone yes, but still good stuff. but not in the running for lennon competitor, that's true.


Bowie was iffy after "Let's Dance"
you may be right, but let's not forget he had already produced oodles of great songs at that point. i mean hey, a full greatest hits collection by him would require something like 3-5 discs!


also, let's not forget brian wilson, who was lennon / mccartney's actual song-writing rival for a while. i have a best of the beach boys collection and it's like 70 songs large. just phenomenal. you have pop like the beatles, but you also have those amazing harmonies and even plenty of experimental music. imagine if his output was doubled, you know?

[Nastradamus]

He is among the best. The Beatles is my all time favourite band. But no one is a greater songwriter than Bob Dylan.


end thread

Its not close either.

[gigantes]

end thread

Its not close either.
meh. if you care for his music, then he has a huge list of great songs. otherwise he's more of a pioneer and curiosity with a much smaller list of great songs.

the thing about the beatles, bowie and some others... like led zep, paul simon, maybe... is that they had a greater, more dynamic range of styles.

bob dylan being as absolutely experimental as he possibly could still sounded pretty much like bob dylan. those other guys... sometimes it was hard to tell that it was the same band, or the same singer(s). they hit home runs in multiple ball parks that dylan never made it to.

[Nastradamus]

meh. if you care for his music, then he has a huge list of great songs. otherwise he's more of a pioneer and curiosity with a much smaller list of great songs.

the thing about the beatles, bowie and some others... like led zep, paul simon, maybe... is that they had a greater, more dynamic range of styles.

bob dylan being as absolutely experimental as he possibly could still sounded pretty much like bob dylan. those other guys... sometimes it was hard to tell that it was the same band, or the same singer(s). they hit home runs in multiple ball parks that dylan never made it to.

He's by no mean the greatest music maker of all time, he's the greatest song writer of all time by far though.

[KevinNYC]

Steely Dan writes better songs.

But to be honest if you were to write out the lyrics to your favorite songs on a sheet of paper and read it out loud, you'd realize that songwriters are a joke compared to real writers/novelists.

Or you may realize that they are different artforms.

Ever try to take a real writers work and put chords underneath it? It ****ing sucks.

[KevinNYC]

”Townes Van Zandt is the best songwriter in the whole world and I'll stand on Bob Dylan's coffee table in my cowboy boots and say that.”
- Steve Earle

"I've met Bob Dylan and his bodyguards, and I don't think Steve could get anywhere near his coffee table."
— Townes Van Zandt.

[ILLsmak]

meh. if you care for his music, then he has a huge list of great songs. otherwise he's more of a pioneer and curiosity with a much smaller list of great songs.

the thing about the beatles, bowie and some others... like led zep, paul simon, maybe... is that they had a greater, more dynamic range of styles.

bob dylan being as absolutely experimental as he possibly could still sounded pretty much like bob dylan. those other guys... sometimes it was hard to tell that it was the same band, or the same singer(s). they hit home runs in multiple ball parks that dylan never made it to.

Dylan is a folk plagiarist.

Van Morrison is a better songwriter than Bob Dylan, both in terms of music and lyrics. Astral Weeks is better than any Dylan album.

The Beatles are good, but are they better than other bands? Better than The Who? I dunno... better than the Kinks? I don't think so.

I mean, classic rock is cool, but even outside of that there are better choices in terms of writing.

The Beatles are like the iphone of rock. They were half-pop. I think it's cool they were popular and had some good non-pop songs, but like I said... the Kinks, Van Morrison, maybe The Who were more talented than the Beatles and Bob Dylan. That's off the top, I am not in a huge thinking mood right now.

-Smak

[ROCSteady]

I don't believe in magic
I don't believe in I-ching
I don't believe in Bible
I don't believe in Tarot
I don't believe in Hitler
I don't believe in Jesus
I don't believe in Kennedy
I don't believe in Buddha
I don't believe in Mantra
I don't believe in Gita
I don't believe in Yoga
I don't believe in Kings
I don't believe in Elvis
I don't believe in Zimmerman
I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me...and that reality



:bowdown: Some of the realest shit ever recorded. More real than anything even ppl like Jay-Z, NaS or any rapper who touts themselves as 'Real' has written despite me loving aforementioned rappers and hip hop artists everywhere

[KevinNYC]

Dylan is a folk plagiarist.

What the hell does that mean?

Does that make the Beatles, Rock and Roll plagiarists? (Hell, when the opened for Little Richard, they were still doing about 4-5 songs of his in their show.)

Does that make Van Morrison and RnB plagiarist?



The Beatles are good, but are they better than other bands? Better than The Who? I dunno... better than the Kinks? I don't think so.

I mean, classic rock is cool, but even outside of that there are better choices in terms of writing.

the Kinks, Van Morrison, maybe The Who were more talented than the Beatles and Bob Dylan. That's off the top, I am not in a huge thinking mood right now.

-Smak

As songwriters, absolutely. The Beatles were better than any band you named. Top to bottom, their catalog is like no band's ever. They existed for 9 years and put out 12 studio albums and for the most part they just kept getting better and better and they didn't repeat themselves. I'm a Who fam and I prefer Baba O'Reilly to anything in the Beatles catalog, but it's real easy to go through the Who's catalog and find forgettable songs. It's lot harder to do with the Beatles. I could probably name 75 Beatles songs off the top of my head because every album had so many good songs.

[ROCSteady]

I don't believe in magic
I don't believe in I-ching
I don't believe in Bible
I don't believe in Tarot
I don't believe in Hitler
I don't believe in Jesus
I don't believe in Kennedy
I don't believe in Buddha
I don't believe in Mantra
I don't believe in Gita
I don't believe in Yoga
I don't believe in Kings
I don't believe in Elvis
I don't believe in Zimmerman
I don't believe in Beatles
I just believe in me...and that reality



:bowdown: Some of the realest shit ever recorded. More real than anything even ppl like Jay-Z, NaS or any rapper who touts themselves as 'Real' has written despite me loving aforementioned rappers and hip hop artists everywhere


:bowdown: :bowdown:

[gigantes]

He's by no mean the greatest music maker of all time, he's the greatest song writer of all time by far though.
I know this is like jamming a pencil in my eye, but go ahead and prove to me that bob Dylan is the greatest song-writer in the history of the human race.

I expect to be overwhelmed by technical music theory and wowed by a series of beautiful and convincing arguments, after which I will see the light and begin a frenzy of amazon activity.

[SuperPippen]

While I absolutely love The Beatles, and they will always remain my favorite band of all time, the band as a whole was definitely greater than the sum of their parts.

Lennon, in particular, has become extremely overrated as a songwriter. Not that he wasn't a capable musician, but if you examine his status and legend today - the man has practically been deified - in relation to his actual output of solo material, it becomes clear that Lennon doesn't really deserve the mythical reputation he has garnered. And again, I emphasize that I do recognize Lennon's abilities, but I simply think that they have been blown out of proportion.

IMO, the greatest songwriter and lyricist of all time is easily Bob Dylan, and while I hate using the term "and it's not even close"..... it really isn't all that close.

Dylan as a wordsmith and poet not only deserves to ranked above all of his contemporaries as rock's supreme lyricist, but he deserves to be placed on the same pedestal upon which timeless, legendary writers such as Shakespeare now rest in the public consciousness. And he's the only musician in history, I think, who deserves that honor.

Lennon's writing abilities don't even approach the caliber, quantity, and quality of Dylan's. Lennon himself knew this, and it is plainly obvious to anyone who has studied both musicians that Lennon was deeply envious of Dylan's gift for language.

I don't even think I'd rank Lennon above guys like Neil Young, Roger Waters, or Bruce Springsteen.

If anyone wants to debate my assertion, I'd be more than happy to provide more evidence.

[KevinNYC]

Wait

The Beatles would open for little Richard and cover little Richard? Multiple covers?

That's the Dummest shit I ever heard

They were big enough to open for little Richard while not having enough original material for a full set??
According to Little Richard it is. * He say he had to tell them to stop doing his stuff because he wanted to use it. You also have to remember before the Beatles came out with their own stuff there was like 50 good rock and roll songs. Apparently, Paul McCartney auditioned to be John Lennon's band The Quarrymen, he did his Little Richard impression. It's a good one.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Th9hv8wG53k#t=16

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6ibeqQA2_Yw

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hQiGv3G6wow

Now Listen to this Beatles original.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X7dHoEmUtIs

wow check out this story. (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rare-beatles-poster-1962-found-2180607) Workmen just found this poster (http://www.mirror.co.uk/news/uk-news/rare-beatles-poster-1962-found-2180607)
http://i3.mirror.co.uk/incoming/article2179193.ece/alternates/s615b/Beatles-and-Little-Richard-poster-found-behind-bidston-train-station.jpg

*(Actually this is probably exaggerated, now that I googled it. I do remember him saying that in an interview. They did have several Little Richard songs in their set at the time when Little Richard came to down, but they probably worked this out before they hit the stage.)

[KevinNYC]

IMO, the greatest songwriter and lyricist of all time is easily Bob Dylan,

Do you distinguish between a songwriter and a lyricist? Because I do.

And Dylan is way behind Lennon/McCartney as a songwriter to me.

Or put it this way, to ever just hum a Dylan song the way you would with say, Penny Lane?

[gigantes]

...Lennon's writing abilities don't even approach the caliber, quantity, and quality of Dylan's. Lennon himself knew this, and it is plainly obvious to anyone who has studied both musicians that Lennon was deeply envious of Dylan's gift for language.

I don't even think I'd rank Lennon above guys like Neil Young, Roger Waters, or Bruce Springsteen.

If anyone wants to debate my assertion, I'd be more than happy to provide more evidence.
more evidence? doesn't the word "more" imply that there was already something present? all i read was more opinion and innuendo.

could you pick a dylan song and examine the lyrics for me? take me through a few of the lines, explain what you're thinking.

a guy's not the shakespeare of song lyrics because he named himself after a famous poet. show me the money, pls.

[Cactus-Sack]

The Pixies had two good albums, several average ones, and he posts this. :roll: :facepalm

Lennon without McCartney has zero good albums, and zero average albums.

Black>>>>>>>>Lennon

[KevinNYC]

The fact that there were so few good rock songs makes covering a bunch even more ridiculous to me.
Well you have to remember they were The Beatles, but they were not yet THE BEATLES!. Lennon was even 20 years old yet. You have to learn how to write a great song.

But covering other people's stuff in concert was common practice in the 1950's. People would cover whatever the big hit of the moment was.

Before the Beatles, the biggest thing going on in Rock and Roll in the early 60's was record labels or producers putting bands together like the Motown groups or the Phil Spector girl groups. They would hire songwriters and then hire singers to be the group. It was very rare to have a group like the Beach Boys writing their own stuff. Sometimes it was pretty great, but it could be pretty inauthentic tool. Phil Spector once recorded a song with one group, but released as a Crystals song because they already had the name recognition.

The Rolling Stones first studio album came out in April 1964. They wrote one song on it. Jagger and Richards were not yet Jagger and Richards. By the time this album came out, the Beatles were already on a World Tour and debuted on Ed Sullivan and they had the top five selling singles in America at the same time. with 4 originals and a cover.

The Billboard Hot 100, April 4, 1964
Position, Title
No. 1, "Can't Buy Me Love"
No. 2, "Twist and Shout"
No. 3, "She Loves You"
No. 4, "I Want to Hold Your Hand"
No. 5, "Please Please Me"

When the Beatles broke through the Stones were covering blues songs mostly. The Who was an RnB band. The Kinks put their first single in 1964. It was a cover of Little Richard's Long Tall Sally.

[KevinNYC]

Let's be real

ID rather listen to the pixies than the Beatles

And that's all that really matters

Francis knows what's up. (http://www.magnetmagazine.com/2001/04/15/frank-black-odd-ball/)

[QUOTE]Frank Black learned how to scream before he learned how to sing. Not the kind of screaming babies do when they come into this world or the kind of screaming gym teachers do when they find somebody

[masonanddixon]

While I absolutely love The Beatles, and they will always remain my favorite band of all time, the band as a whole was definitely greater than the sum of their parts.

Lennon, in particular, has become extremely overrated as a songwriter. Not that he wasn't a capable musician, but if you examine his status and legend today - the man has practically been deified - in relation to his actual output of solo material, it becomes clear that Lennon doesn't really deserve the mythical reputation he has garnered. And again, I emphasize that I do recognize Lennon's abilities, but I simply think that they have been blown out of proportion.

IMO, the greatest songwriter and lyricist of all time is easily Bob Dylan, and while I hate using the term "and it's not even close"..... it really isn't all that close.

Dylan as a wordsmith and poet not only deserves to ranked above all of his contemporaries as rock's supreme lyricist, but he deserves to be placed on the same pedestal upon which timeless, legendary writers such as Shakespeare now rest in the public consciousness. And he's the only musician in history, I think, who deserves that honor.

Lennon's writing abilities don't even approach the caliber, quantity, and quality of Dylan's. Lennon himself knew this, and it is plainly obvious to anyone who has studied both musicians that Lennon was deeply envious of Dylan's gift for language.

I don't even think I'd rank Lennon above guys like Neil Young, Roger Waters, or Bruce Springsteen.

If anyone wants to debate my assertion, I'd be more than happy to provide more evidence.


Come on now. I know you love Dylan but he can't hold F Scott Fitzgerald's jock, let alone guys like Faulkner, Pynchon, and Gaddis. You can't put musicians in the same ballpark as real writers.

[masonanddixon]

Or you may realize that they are different artforms.

Ever try to take a real writers work and put chords underneath it? It ****ing sucks.

That wasn't the discussion. But you easily could. Easily.

Here's a typical line from Faulkner, The Town:

'...yet it was as though light were not being subtracted from earth, drained from earth backward and upward into that cooling green, but rather had gathered, pooling for an unmoving moment yet, among the low places of the ground so that ground, earth itself is luminous and only the dense clumps of trees are dark, standing darkly and immobile out of it.'

Here is Dylan being 'profound'-from 'Just like a Woman'

'Nobody feels any pain
Tonight as I stand inside the rain
Ev'rybody knows
That Baby's got new clothes
But lately I see her ribbons and her bows
Have fallen from her curls
She takes just like a woman, yes she does
She makes love just like a woman, yes she does
And she aches just like a woman
But she breaks just like a little girl.


Like I said, if you were to write out your favorite musician's lyrics on a scrap of paper, you'd laugh at how mundane and menial it is compared to a real writer.

[lakers_forever]

That wasn't the discussion. But you easily could. Easily.

Here's a typical line from Faulkner, The Town:

'...yet it was as though light were not being subtracted from earth, drained from earth backward and upward into that cooling green, but rather had gathered, pooling for an unmoving moment yet, among the low places of the ground so that ground, earth itself is luminous and only the dense clumps of trees are dark, standing darkly and immobile out of it.'

Here is Dylan being 'profound'-from 'Just like a Woman'

'Nobody feels any pain
Tonight as I stand inside the rain
Ev'rybody knows
That Baby's got new clothes
But lately I see her ribbons and her bows
Have fallen from her curls
She takes just like a woman, yes she does
She makes love just like a woman, yes she does
And she aches just like a woman
But she breaks just like a little girl.


Like I said, if you were to write out your favorite musician's lyrics on a scrap of paper, you'd laugh at how mundane and menial it is compared to a real writer.

While I agree that you just can't compare the quality of the great writers to even the best songrwriter (Bob Dylan is the best of all ime IMO), I must say you picked one of the most "pop" and less intelligent Dylan's songs.


Darkness at the break of noon
Shadows even the silver spoon
The handmade blade, the child's balloon
Eclipses both the sun and moon
To understand you know too soon
There is no sense in trying.

Pointed threats, they bluff with scorn
Suicide remarks are torn
From the fool's gold mouthpiece
The hollow horn plays wasted words
Proves to warn
That he not busy being born
Is busy dying


That's rich. Take the imagery of the thunder and bells representing the call for freedom of "Chimes of freedom":


Far between sundown's finish an' midnight's broken toll
We ducked inside the doorway, thunder crashing
As majestic bells of bolts struck shadows in the sounds
Seeming to be the chimes of freedom flashing
Flashing for the warriors whose strength is not to fight
Flashing for the refugees on the unarmed road of flight
An' for each an' ev'ry underdog soldier in the night
An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing.

Through the city's melted furnace, unexpectedly we watched
With faces hidden while the walls were tightening
As the echo of the wedding bells before the blowin' rain
Dissolved into the bells of the lightning
Tolling for the rebel, tolling for the rake
Tolling for the luckless, the abandoned an' forsaked
Tolling for the outcast, burnin' constantly at stake
An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing.

Through the mad mystic hammering of the wild ripping hail
The sky cracked its poems in naked wonder
That the clinging of the church bells blew far into the breeze
Leaving only bells of lightning and its thunder
Striking for the gentle, striking for the kind
Striking for the guardians and protectors of the mind
An' the unpawned painter behind his rightful time
An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing.

In the wild cathedral evening the rain unraveled tales
For the disrobed faceless forms of no position
Tolling for the tongues with no place to bring their thoughts
All down in taken-for-granted situations
Tolling for the deaf an' blind, tolling for the mute
For the mistreated, mateless mother, the mistitled prostitute
For the misdemeanor outlaw, chased an' cheated by pursuit
An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing.

Even though a cloud's white curtain in a far-off corner flashed
An' the hypnotic splattered mist was slowly lifting
Electric light still struck like arrows, fired but for the ones
Condemned to drift or else be kept from drifting
Tolling for the searching ones, on their speechless, seeking trail
For the lonesome-hearted lovers with too personal a tale
An' for each unharmful, gentle soul misplaced inside a jail
An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing.

Starry-eyed an' laughing as I recall when we were caught
Trapped by no track of hours for they hanged suspended
As we listened one last time an' we watched with one last look
Spellbound an' swallowed 'til the tolling ended
Tolling for the aching ones whose wounds cannot be nursed
For the countless confused, accused, misused, strung-out ones an' worse
An' for every hung-up person in the whole wide universe
An' we gazed upon the chimes of freedom flashing


That's the work of a very talented man. No Tolstoy, but the best you can get in popular music. :applause:

[FatComputerNerd]

Surprised nobody else named Cohen among their list of greats.

He truly is right up there w/ Dylan.

Just a couple examples of his amazing lyrics, and not even his best songs:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bntot9LAY08
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vnaxvBsyigM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u1bdXUhGJZI

Hell, he was actually a somewhat successful poet and writer (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Leonard_Cohen#Poetry_and_novels) before he started his musical career!

[KevinNYC]

'...yet it was as though light were not being subtracted from earth, drained from earth backward and upward into that cooling green, but rather had gathered, pooling for an unmoving moment yet, among the low places of the ground so that ground, earth itself is luminous and only the dense clumps of trees are dark, standing darkly and immobile out of it.'

Holy **** that is unmusical.

I'm think Faulkner would agree.

[T_L_P]

In the wild cathedral evening the rain unraveled tales
For the disrobed faceless forms of no position

Some of my favourite lines in all of music.

[FatComputerNerd]

BTW...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YZGayaTPQ4I

Hello darkness, my old friend
I've come to talk with you again
Because a vision softly creeping
Left its seeds while I was sleeping
And the vision that was planted
In my brain still remains
Within the sound of silence

In restless dreams, I walked alone
Narrow streets of cobblestone
'Neath the halo of a street lamp
I turned my collar to the cold and damp
When my eyes were stabbed by the flash
Of a neon light that split the night
And touched the sound of silence

And in the naked light I saw
Ten thousand people, maybe more
People talking without speaking
People hearing without listening
People writing songs that voices
Never shared and no one dared
Disturb the sound of silence

"Fools", said I, "You do not know
Silence like a cancer grows
Hear my words that I might teach you
Take my arms that I might reach you"
But my words, like silent raindrops fell
And echoed in the wells of silence

And the people bowed and prayed
To the neon god they made
And the sign flashed out its warning
In the words that it was forming
And the sign said, The words of the prophets are written
On the subway walls and tenement halls
And whispered in the sounds of silence"

[FatComputerNerd]

Moar Paul Simon: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MYPJOCxSUFc

Poetry...

[WallBe]

Paul McCartney and George Harrison

[andgar923]

Not that I agree or disagree with the OP, but Lennon does have a legit case when considering the following:

People mistake that being a songwriter is about just lyrical wordplay, but forget that there's other aspects such as melody, catchiness and impact.

One must also consider how timeless music is.

But most of all, how prolific the artist is. Any artist can write some good lyrics, any decent artist can write decent lyrics with good melody, Any good artist can write a number of good lyrics with good melodies. But that's where the greats separate from the rest.

Great artists don't just make a few 'good' lyrics with good melodies, they make great songs, the best of the best create timeless classics that live forever and the elite handful have a catalog of dozens of songs that changed the course of music.

Most will cite Dylan as the best songwriter, imo he was a great lyricist but wasn't as great as Lennon when it came to overall songwriting.

Lennon's greatness lies in being both complex and simple.

He was more powerful creating simple words than Dylan creating some deep lyrics.

Lennon can be considered the GOAT due to his large discography or timeless songs.

[T_L_P]

'I never asked for your crutch, now don't ask for mine.'

tbh

[andgar923]

Lyrics are simple.
The melody and pattern isn't complex.

Yet this song will have more of an impact than most of what Dylan ever wrote.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4C7nzceL8Q&ab_channel=thebeatleslovesong

The perfect song of all time 'imo' is very basic in content, but it does the job.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ltRwmgYEUr8&ab_channel=rjtorre

'I got sunshine on a cloudy day'

Corny and sappy as f*ck.

But god damn if it doesn't illustrate what being in love is like.

You may find better wordplay, deeper metaphors, but from top to bottom that is songwriting 101.

[Nowitness]

Beefheart produced better lyrics in literally any song (even instrumentals) from Trout Mask than Lennon produced in his entire discography (Beatles included).

[SuperPippen]

No, songs aren't all about lyrics. Just like songs aren't all about melody or harmony. Songs are a composite of all of those aspects.

Was Dylan as great a craftsman of melody as, say, McCartney? No. (But then again, neither was Lennon). The strength of Dylan's work rests, first and foremost, in the quality of his lyrics, and damn if his words don't pierce your brain in a way that most music just can't. I'm more likely to randomly recall a memorable turn of phrase by Dylan then I am to have a melody stuck in my head.

His songs just strike a deeper chord with me than those of any other songwriter.

Not that I don't also love "In My Life" or "My Girl," or dispute the talent of Lennon and McCartney, or Smokey Robinson. But Dylan, as an overall songwriter, deserves to be ranked a tier above any other.

[Nastradamus]

Not that I agree or disagree with the OP, but Lennon does have a legit case when considering the following:

People mistake that being a songwriter is about just lyrical wordplay, but forget that there's other aspects such as melody, catchiness and impact.

One must also consider how timeless music is.

But most of all, how prolific the artist is. Any artist can write some good lyrics, any decent artist can write decent lyrics with good melody, Any good artist can write a number of good lyrics with good melodies. But that's where the greats separate from the rest.

Great artists don't just make a few 'good' lyrics with good melodies, they make great songs, the best of the best create timeless classics that live forever and the elite handful have a catalog of dozens of songs that changed the course of music.

Most will cite Dylan as the best songwriter, imo he was a great lyricist but wasn't as great as Lennon when it came to overall songwriting.

Lennon's greatness lies in being both complex and simple.

He was more powerful creating simple words than Dylan creating some deep lyrics.

Lennon can be considered the GOAT due to his large discography or timeless songs.

I think Lennon's solo work shows this not to be true. Him and Mccartney made for a great combination because of the elements you mention, but he lacked the simple as a solo artist. Did he ever really have a pop hit on his own? Not that he really wanted to, but it still wasn't a strength.

[KevinNYC]

I think Lennon's solo work shows this not to be true. Him and Mccartney made for a great combination because of the elements you mention, but he lacked the simple as a solo artist. Did he ever really have a pop hit on his own? Not that he really wanted to, but it still wasn't a strength.
He had eight top 11 hits with Two number 1's.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HNNxeovdN5U

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1HLVXrAErlU

[KevinNYC]

Furthermore, three of his albums went to number 1 (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Lennon_discography) in the US, (2 of them were number 1's around the world.)

[KevinNYC]

Name recognition

Not saying they are bad, never listened, but he could release anything and it would sell

Surely. But the point is he did have success on his own. And for Lennon fans, I would be there are a handful of his solo songs that they would have over his Beatles work. And only his good albums went to number 1. It wasn't like just any album hit number one.

Kinda forgot how much I like this one
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EqP3wT5lpa4

Also is the the first instance of someone wearing headphones during a performance?

[KevinNYC]

My favorite of his solo stuff is his Rock and Roll album, covers of some great stuff.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vgl0va5Pda8&list=PLAF722E7778B6BBDC&index=3

I love his version of Bring it on Home To Me. I wonder if I heard his first.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9niJBgTAO3s&list=PLAF722E7778B6BBDC&index=10

[Nastradamus]

I mean, fair point and I"m a big fan of Lennon overall, but his solo work is nowhere near the caliber of the Beatles when Paul was with him. You can't be #1 in the areas you're speaking of with 2 #1 hits

[KevinNYC]

I mean, fair point and I"m a big fan of Lennon overall, but his solo work is nowhere near the caliber of the Beatles when Paul was with him. You can't be #1 in the areas you're speaking of with 2 #1 hits
Well the same could be same for Paul too right. I mean The Beatles were just ridiculous and a unique phenomenon. They said that John would bring a song to Paul and Paul would sweeten it a bit. Paul would bring a song to John and he would gritty it up a bit. How often is the best music being made by the most popular artist? It doesn't happen often. Their run of albums will never be repeated.

Just found this cool clip of quick little red carpet interviews of folks talking about the Beatles
http://www.billboard.com/articles/news/5900931/the-beatles-us-invasion-28-stars-discuss-the-fab-fours-50th-anniversary-video

[KevinNYC]

And they'd bring a song to Ringo and...
He said, "Sounds marvy, am I still in the band?"





















I actually like Ringo Starr as a drummer. No drummer has ever inspired more drummers.

[ace23]

Not enough rappers in here tbh

[ILLsmak]

What the hell does that mean?

Does that make the Beatles, Rock and Roll plagiarists? (Hell, when the opened for Little Richard, they were still doing about 4-5 songs of his in their show.)

Does that make Van Morrison and RnB plagiarist?





No, Led would be something like that. Doing someone's song is not the same as lifting it without giving influence props. Dylan lifted a lot of lyrics. The place he came out of (greenwich) also could have been a huge "influence" for his work.

I'm cool with people being influenced. I'm cool with drawing inspiration, but let's not call people geniuses if they are simply mixing shit they've experienced... not of the world but of other people's art. I like "Like a Rolling Stone" tho that song goes hard. I like "If you belonged to me." Dylan can write some shit, but he's not godlvl.

I dunno if I'd take the band that had 50 pretty good songs over the band that had 5 unforgettable songs. That's why I'm not that into the beatles. They have some good songs, but their good songs pale in comparison to other people's good songs.

Look at TS Eliot, the idea of lifting shit is not new and a lot of the "most renown artists" do it. They are more able to archive or discern what is working for the world at that time... which is a talent, sure. But it's not art in the truest form, to me.

It's also extremely rare that the most popular choice (the beatles in 'greatest band', and dylan as 'greatest lyricist') is correct. It's just like the LCD opinion. Something people hear and say YEAH. Popular appeal means shit to me. Why would it? This isn't bball where you 'win.' You succeed by creating something that I love.

I can give props to a good song... but the deeper you go the more you will find out that, you know TUPAC isn't the best rapper. Dylan isn't the best lyricist, Beatles aren't the best band...

-Smak

[gigantes]

No, songs aren't all about lyrics. Just like songs aren't all about melody or harmony. Songs are a composite of all of those aspects.

Was Dylan as great a craftsman of melody as, say, McCartney? No. (But then again, neither was Lennon). The strength of Dylan's work rests, first and foremost, in the quality of his lyrics, and damn if his words don't pierce your brain in a way that most music just can't. I'm more likely to randomly recall a memorable turn of phrase by Dylan then I am to have a melody stuck in my head.

His songs just strike a deeper chord with me than those of any other songwriter.

Not that I don't also love "In My Life" or "My Girl," or dispute the talent of Lennon and McCartney, or Smokey Robinson. But Dylan, as an overall songwriter, deserves to be ranked a tier above any other.
internet's spotty ATM but I would still be interested in you or that other dude taking me through a Dylan song and pointing out the sights. I do like Dylan and get that you *love* Dylan, so... trying to leave the door ajar.

BTW I would not underestimate Lennon as a Wordsmith. Dylan had a kind of gleeful expressive cynicism, but Lennon had a bludgeoning cynicism of his own, not to mention a sort of mystical aspect packed in to his efficient rock form. He was a stealth-bomber where Dylan was more of a standard bearer. something like that, anyway.

[DeuceWallaces]

Lennon, and probably even Harrison, has a better collection of solo hits than McCartney.

Double Fantasy > All Things Must Pass > Band on the Run.

Dylan sucks.

But ultimately who cares, it's entirely subjective. Just like who you like.

[gigantes]

Lennon, and probably even Harrison, has a better collection of solo hits than McCartney.

Double Fantasy > All Things Must Pass > Band on the Run.

Dylan sucks.

But ultimately who cares, it's entirely subjective. Just like who you like.
I'm not a maccaphobe, but even Starkey has a strong collection of solo songs. his retro album with "16" and stuff is just great. took him a bit lonher than Harrison to hit his stride, but boy did he hit it.

[BigBoss]

Me.

"Up the stairs
Next to heaven
OP's a fakkit...
Call the reverend"

[SexSymbol]

Paolo Nutini
Michael Jackson
Eminem
Pac
Mos Def
Nas

[ThePhantomCreep]

Lennon without McCartney has zero good albums, and zero average albums.

Black>>>>>>>>Lennon
Black without the Pixies = wants to know if you'd like fries with your McRib.

It's ridiculous how people underrate Lennon. 'A Hard Days Night' which you mentioned was mostly written by him.

[Axe]

Happy 40th death anniversary, John Lennon. A true legend.

https://encrypted-tbn0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTw4eFxVUgH3IJmeDcO3DABsFFdRgrDg Q3Nnw&usqp=CAU

[Bimbo Coles]

Everyone's a better songwriter than Lennon, except the six or seven listed above (Bowie's borderline). And I dig the dude on the previous page who's venerating Beefheart.