Do Cavs Fans Regret Their Draft Choice Yet?

[IGOTGAME]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-GsmvHygGw4&feature=player_embedded

Check out Jonas Valanciunas in Euro Basket. JV had 26/11.

You mad Cleveland fans?

[FatComputerNerd]

a little? :confusedshrug:

[Lebron23]

How much do the Cavaliers pay these draft scouts?

[jbryan1984]

i have not seen our rookies play yet nor have i seen how jonas will play in the nba. so no.

[AlphaWolf24]

(opened thread and expected something else)....(leaves thread)

[BankShot]

i have not seen our rookies play yet nor have i seen how jonas will play in the nba. so no.

This. Until everyone plays extended minutes in the NBA, it is all just speculation.

[JP275]

(opened thread and expected something else)....(leaves thread)

Same here bud haha

[hayden695]

(opened thread and expected something else)....(leaves thread)
:oldlol:

Being a Raps fan, I understand this so I won't rub it in, not to mention this isn't an NBA game.

[G-train]

Czech Republic

[Sheed]

Czech Republic
:applause:

This dude won't be shit in the NBA

[mattvNJ]

hes gonna be a scrub in the nba... no doubr

[qrich]

I wonder if the Raptors would accept Blake and the Wolves first for this beast.

[Lebron23]

How can you hate this kid? He's going to be one of the toughest Europeans to ever play in the NBA. He's the Anti Bargnani. Jonas is solid low post scorer, he's blocking some shots, and looks like a good rebounder.

[bagelred]

Of COURSE they regret their draft choice.

If they had to do it over again, they definitely would have taken Melo.

[InspiredLebowski]

I do think passing on Valanciunas will haunt them (and Utah, and to a lesser degree Sota), but it'd be one thing if they'd gone with say....shit, no one really. Vesely maybe but I haven't seen enough to really have an opinion. But man, Tristan Thompson? Really? I know the guy was like 75% an advanced statistics pick, so I guess we'll see, he better learn to score off something other than putbacks though.

[Sakkreth]

Lithuania plays Russia tommorow, Valanciunas will have alot harder competition , lets see what he can do against Mozgov.

[Clutch]

Lithuania plays Russia tommorow, Valanciunas will have alot harder competition , lets see what he can do against Mozgov.
MozGOD will destroy him.

http://therookiewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/mozgov.jpg

[QuebecBaller]

Of COURSE they regret their draft choice.

If they had to do it over again, they definitely would have taken Melo.

:lol :lol

[knightfall88]

The hate on Lebron is getting out of control

[/joke]

[alenleomessi]

I do think passing on Valanciunas will haunt them (and Utah, and to a lesser degree Sota), but it'd be one thing if they'd gone with say....shit, no one really. Vesely maybe but I haven't seen enough to really have an opinion. But man, Tristan Thompson? Really? I know the guy was like 75% an advanced statistics pick, so I guess we'll see, he better learn to score off something other than putbacks though.
so ur basically saying jonas will be the best player from this draft ? :lol

[alenleomessi]

MozGOD will destroy him.

http://therookiewall.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/mozgov.jpg
Literally

[IGOTGAME]

Lithuania plays Russia tommorow, Valanciunas will have alot harder competition , lets see what he can do against Mozgov.

what time is the game?

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

TORONTO RAPTORS :bowdown:

[Rekindled]

amare for valanciunas, maybe we will throw in douglas too

[Sakkreth]

what time is the game?

August 10th, 9:30 AM EST.

[Ikill]

Czech Republic
Canada>>>>>>>>>

[IGOTGAME]

August 10th, 9:30 AM EST.

:cheers:

I'll be tuning in hopefully via stream.

[JaskoX1]

Lil Kyrie and Tristan going to do wonders. We got the next Kemp and Payton on our hands.

[QuebecBaller]

Does Tristan Thompson have more potential than JJ Hickson?

[JaskoX1]

Does Tristan Thompson have more potential than JJ Hickson?
I think at this point, Luke Harangody has more potential then Hickson

[Kurosawa0]

Of COURSE they regret their draft choice.

If they had to do it over again, they definitely would have taken Melo.

Why? Would they prefer to pissed at New York instead of Miami?

[InspiredLebowski]

so ur basically saying jonas will be the best player from this draft ? :lolMight be.

[Borderlands]

Um. A lot of the points he scored were off good feeds from his teammates. He's a center so the least he can do is finish.

Kyrie Irving is a lightning-quick creator so no I dont think Cavs should go with Jonas over Irving. No knocking on JV though because the video does show that he has good hands, footwork and coordination.

[HylianNightmare]

gotta work on those post moves

[chips93]

i wish we had taken jonas but its very early.

a big man who can defend the pick and roll, defend the rim, and the low post as well as providing some offense are invaluable in the nba, and jonas has the potential to develop into an elite big man, but hes still very thin, and hasnt been truly tested yet.

[IGOTGAME]

Um. A lot of the points he scored were off good feeds from his teammates. He's a center so the least he can do is finish.

Kyrie Irving is a lightning-quick creator so no I dont think Cavs should go with Jonas over Irving. No knocking on JV though because the video does show that he has good hands, footwork and coordination.

The Cavs could have selected him at 4 but they chose Tristan Thompson.

[Godzuki]

I think at this point, Luke Harangody has more potential then Hickson


you're a retard :facepalm

[chips93]

Why? Would they prefer to pissed at New York instead of Miami?

jeez cant u take a joke

[Godzuki]

Cav's are going to look like fools. between Jonas and trading Hickson for Casspi, and maybe even taking Irving over Williams, they made a lot of very iffy moves with a very good chance of looking dumb. that Hickson trade was laughable to me.

i wish i could bet money on them looking REAL dumb :pimp:

[Godzuki]

nm

[QuebecBaller]

He read so many comparisons on Tristan that I don't know what to hope/think about him (I never saw him play in college)

From LaMarcus Aldridge, to Ed Davis, to Hakim Warrick...

[cavsfanatic]

I remember when Okc took Westbrook and everybody said why? Not judging till they play in the Nba

[v1ncelis]

JV stats against Russia and Mozgov today: 14 (5/6 FG) pts 7 reb 1 block in 18 min. Mozgov 18 (5/11 FG) 6 reb in 26 min. Bright future for this kid.

[Miller for 3]

I thought this thread was going to be about Lebron. Carry on

[JaskoX1]

you're a retard :facepalm
You've not seen Stone Hands Hickson play. :facepalm

[Droid101]

JV stats against Russia and Mozgov today: 14 (5/6 FG) pts 7 reb 1 block in 18 min. Mozgov 18 (5/11 FG) 6 reb in 26 min. Bright future for this kid.
Why? Because he had a decent game against an NBA 4th string center?

I think Blake Griffin posted 50 points on Mozgov.

[IGOTGAME]

Highlights of JV today against Russia. LOL at Tristan Thompson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stQqOhB98vw&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHdlKApBuTA&feature=player_embedded


I think Blake Griffin posted 50 points on Mozgov.

Blake Griffin is a top 20 player in the league. So what?

[Godzuki]

Highlights of JV today against Russia. LOL at Tristan Thompson

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=stQqOhB98vw&feature=player_embedded

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHdlKApBuTA&feature=player_embedded



Blake Griffin is a top 20 player in the league. So what?


he's a mix between Pau and Dirk and Olajuwon and Kareem, Cav's = :facepalm

[G-train]

Cav's are going to look like fools. between Jonas and trading Hickson for Casspi, and maybe even taking Irving over Williams, they made a lot of very iffy moves with a very good chance of looking dumb. that Hickson trade was laughable to me.

i wish i could bet money on them looking REAL dumb :pimp:

If you watched Kings and Cavs games, you would know that Casspi is a better player than Hickson. It goes beyond skills in that comparison.

[Godzuki]

If you watched Kings and Cavs games, you would know that Casspi is a better player than Hickson. It goes beyond skills in that comparison.


i've watched both and its not even close Hickson is better. you obviously didn't watch the Cav's this past year. and Casspi isn't even a starter on a bad team where as Hickson is/was the Cav's best player.

[IGOTGAME]

Jonas didn't play much in the first half due to foul trouble and injury against Spain. But in the final 4:30 minutes of the game Ibaka and Jonas went at it. Jonas gave him work and looked like a very promising prospect. One play, Jonas actually dunked in Ibaka's face.

I guess Jonas can only take the Czech's to school.:roll:

Valancuinas 12 pts, 4 rbs, 3 blocks in only 11 minutes. Most of it against Ibaka.

[RedBlackAttack]

I wanted Irving and Valanciunas and I made this crystal clear on here and in RL during the entire lead-up to the draft.

However, we didn't take him, Grant decided on a guy that I wasn't at all sold upon and here we are.. .

BUT, no... I don't regret the draft pick yet. When this guy begins producing on an NBA level (which I think will happen and that is the reason I wanted him), maybe then I will begin regretting the pick... Or, if TT doesn't produce.

As of now, we know nothing.

[IGOTGAME]

I wanted Irving and Valanciunas and I made this crystal clear on here and in RL during the entire lead-up to the draft.

However, we didn't take him, Grant decided on a guy that I wasn't at all sold upon and here we are.. .

BUT, no... I don't regret the draft pick yet. When this guy begins producing on an NBA level (which I think will happen and that is the reason I wanted him), maybe then I will begin regretting the pick... Or, if TT doesn't produce.

As of now, we know nothing.

Did the Cavs elaborate on their pick at all? I watched about 5 Texas games this year and I didn't see anything that warranted a #4 pick.

[JaskoX1]

I remember when Okc took Westbrook and everybody said why? Not judging till they play in the Nba
yeah and look at the crap player he has become.

[RedBlackAttack]

Did the Cavs elaborate on their pick at all? I watched about 5 Texas games this year and I didn't see anything that warranted a #4 pick.
Obviously, living in Cleveland, I hear a good bit of analysis, some of which is coming from people very close to the top of the FO.

Apparently, TT outplayed Derrick Williams in several workouts that the team held. By the end of his final workout, the Cavs' FO felt as though TT was actually a better prospect than DWill, since he was doing very well against him in every game/drill AND he is a year younger.

Also, when the Cavs turned around after the pick and almost immediately traded JJ Hickson, it became a little more apparent that this was always a part of the larger plan. One of my biggest gripes with the pick was that we already had the PF spot filled with a good player.

If they knew that they were trading JJ, it made more sense to take a player that was similar in size/frame/athleticism.

Lastly, I've heard that the FO did not want a Rubio-esque contract situation with Jonas. I do believe that, if the contract issues didn't exist, he would have definitely been the pick (Grant flew to Lithuania multiple times to watch him play in person and there was obviously great interest), but they didn't feel that the gap between him and where they viewed TT to be great enough to justify taking on these contract issues.

Like I said, I'm willing to wait and see. I wanted Valanciunas in the worst way and these clips do look intriguing, but -- first and foremost -- I haven't seen TT play a single game on the next level yet.

If the FO turns out to be right and TT becomes as good as or better than DWill, it almost wouldn't matter what Valanciunas did, because that would justify taking him at No. 4.

This is a wait-and-see thing and I'm not going to make any statement one way or the other yet.

I will say that I think we absolutely made the right pick with the No. 1 selection. And, hey... If we are in the lottery again next year and have a shot at Jones or Barnes or Davis or Gilchrist, so be it.

One thing I do feel... We are in much better shape this year than we were last year.

PG - Kyrie Irving/B-Diddy/Sessions
SG - AP?/Eyenga
SF - Casspi
PF - TT/Jamison
C - Varejao/Erden/Hollins

There is some potential, there. We are still going to be a bad team, but there are some potentially nice, young pieces in place with Irving and possibly TT, Eyenga, Casspi and even Erden that may be a part of this franchise's future.

The goal of the franchise should be to just get the roster better each year... I feel that they did that, even though I wanted Valanciunas.

In short, although I didn't initially agree with the pick, I like what Grant/Gilbert/Scott have done in the last year.

[Euroleague]

Do people here not even realize that these are nothing more than training games?

[RedBlackAttack]

Do people here not even realize that these are nothing more than training games?
Training games or regular games, it doesn't matter. Success in these international leagues and success in the NBA are wholly different.

He has good athleticism for his size and seems to move very well. Aside from that, these vids don't tell me anything.

[Scoooter]

He looks pretty small next to Mozgov.

[IGOTGAME]

He looks pretty small next to Mozgov.

He looked real big next to Ibaka.

[Scoooter]

Fascinating.

[IGOTGAME]

Damn, I really wanted Cleveland to get good again. They would have had a chance to be great with Jonas and the #4 this year.

He has been killing it all year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUPDwI72xPk

^^^^7 minutes of greatness

Guy is gonna be a top 5 Center in 3 years at most. He would have been the #2 pick in this draft easily.

I hope Toronto makes some moves and puts some pieces around Jonas and the #4.

[ZenMaster]

Damn, I really wanted Cleveland to get good again. They would have had a chance to be great with Jonas and the #4 this year.

He has been killing it all year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xUPDwI72xPk

^^^^7 minutes of greatness

Guy is gonna be a top 5 Center in 3 years at most. He would have been the #2 pick in this draft easily.

I hope Toronto makes some moves and puts some pieces around Jonas and the #4.

Him and Bargnani together is very interesting.

[GOBB]

Cleveland could have solidified their PG-C positions in that draft. Then in this draft with 4 picks added in between. Ah well.

[Meticode]

Cleveland could have solidified their PG-C positions in that draft. Then in this draft with 4 picks added in between. Ah well.
Possible, we still don't know what have he's going to turn out. Always a possibility. personally I didn't feel like and neither did the front office feel like waiting 2 years for him.

[FireDavidKahn]

Possible, we still don't know what have he's going to turn out. Always a possibility. personally I didn't feel like and neither did the front office feel like waiting 2 years for him.
Waiting 2 years can pay off immensely. :D

[Meticode]

Waiting 2 years can pay off immensely. :D
It can, but it can be a disappointment. Sometimes things work out unexpectedly. Timberwolves were in a great situation until Rubio injured himself. Tons of people thought he was going to be a bust (including me), but if he was healthy he would've challenged Irving for Rookie of the Year.

[IGOTGAME]

Possible, we still don't know what have he's going to turn out. Always a possibility. personally I didn't feel like and neither did the front office feel like waiting 2 years for him.

waiting 2 years vs. 2 years of TT? I'll wait for the potential all star center.

[chips93]

i plan on waiting to see him, you know, play an nba game, before drawing conclusions.

[hawksdogsbraves]

We'll see how he does, but I have a suspicion that they're really going to regret it. A large part of that is that Thompson looks like a role player at best though.

[IGOTGAME]

i plan on waiting to see him, you know, play an nba game, before drawing conclusions.

He is better than Tristan Thompson at playing basketball. I don't need to see Jonas do it in the NBA. He has skills that Thompson doesn't have that are extremely rare for a 7 footer.

If just bothers me when teams all complain about not being able to find quality 7 footers and then when an fundamentally sound long and coordinated big with touch comes around they pass on him.

[LBJFTW]

Bottom line is that Chris Grant decision making > Danny Ferry.

[UtahJazzFan88]

Still baffled at the TT pick, especially it was a weaker draft at the time (right now the draft looks a little better than what people thought last year), that it would be a good year to pick a guy like Valanciunas. Thompson just looked like a very good hustle player, can get rebounds.

[Owl]

I thought Valanciunas was better at the time and especially had a higher upside and gave the added bonus of not improving them immediately allowing them to get a better pick this year.

Its worth not improving too quickly. The Thunder stayed weak for a while (even after drafting Durant). Chicago with Jordan stayed, if not lottery then at least (in the old 23 team league) poor enough to draft reasonably high (11,9,10 from 1985 through 87, plus the acquisitions of picks (pick 5 in 87, pick 11 in 88 and picks 6 and 18 in 89). Getting young talent who mature at around the same time is the best plan for a dynasty (of course it doesn't always work, Portland were very unlucky with a similar plan). This strategy also gives you the chance (if you have a generous owner) to land big free agents before you make give the youngsters their big contracts.

If you make a team very good quickly (a la LeBron's Cleveland, David Robinson's Spurs) unless you can steal picks off dumb teams (difficult these days but LA and Boston got McHale, Worthy, Scott) whether by virtue of a player being very good straight away, prioritising immediate improvement too much or whatever it becomes very difficult to improve and teams start panicking and making dumb moves (a la Orlando and Cleveland with Howard and LeBron).

[RedBlackAttack]

I don't know... I wanted the Irving/Valanciunus combo at this time last year, too. I still think he could turn out to be a nice player, but I also think Tristan has good bit of upside and will end up being one of the better picks in that draft in retrospect.

Just watching his growth at the free throw line last year was an indicator of his work ethic. In his first full month as a player in the NBA, he was shooting an abominable 37% from the line. I thought that it would take years for him to be a halfway decent free throw shooter and that it may never happen.

However, what happened astonished me. By the end of February, he had improved almost 20 percentage points to 53%. By the end of March, he had raised it to 61%.

And, in the last 15 games or so, he was actually shooting over 70% from the line. Amazing and very important for a physical big man who is going to be spending a good amount of time on the line over the course of his career.

But, more important, a sign of the kind of worker he is.


Tristan is the kind of guy that will absolutely take great advantage of his first offseason, training camp and (real) preseason. He really needed that last year, but it wasn't available. Also, he spent most of the year in the giant shadow of what Kyrie was doing, which was a good thing looking back on it. He was able to improve his game and take the kind of time that he needed without the pressure of being the franchise guy that normally comes along with being the No. 4 pick.

He will improve by leaps and bounds in the 2013 season. I'm very confident of that.

[Stuckey]

european big men are restricted for the Raptors, it's a conspiracy

[Meticode]

I don't regret it. What's the point? The Cavs did the safe pick. Jonas isn't guaranteed, you have to wait two years, no one knows how his game is going to translate into the NBA game. Is he more skilled? Is he a better player than Tristan Thompson? More than likely yes, but the Cavs looked at Thompson and saw a good work ethic and motor. Motor cannot be taught. While Thompson typically isn't your 4th pick in a draft with his talent and probably more like a late first or early second round pick, they knew what they wanted and they saw Thompson.

Thompson had a decent year. He struggled at the line though and he struggled from the field after the first few months of the season went along. He reminds of Brandon Bass, except without a jumper right now, but a bigger motor.

[EricGordon23]

Is J.V playing next season?

[Meticode]

Is J.V playing next season?
2012-2013? No. The year after? I don't know, I believe so.

[Xiao Yao You]

Still baffled at the TT pick, especially it was a weaker draft at the time (right now the draft looks a little better than what people thought last year), that it would be a good year to pick a guy like Valanciunas. Thompson just looked like a very good hustle player, can get rebounds.

Based on the scouting reports the Jazz also blew it by not taking Jonas as much as I love Enes. They certainly could have afforded to wait for him with their front line. Evans or a vet would have gotten Kanter's limited minutes as their 4th big. But this is the team that took Almond over Splitter when they already had CJ and Brewer so it's par for the course with them. I guess after Lopez blew out his knees while they waited for him has scared them away?

[IGOTGAME]

2012-2013? No. The year after? I don't know, I believe so.

Actually J.V. is playing next season.

[JtotheIzzo]

I don't regret it. What's the point? The Cavs did the safe pick. Jonas isn't guaranteed, you have to wait two years, no one knows how his game is going to translate into the NBA game. Is he more skilled? Is he a better player than Tristan Thompson? More than likely yes, but the Cavs looked at Thompson and saw a good work ethic and motor. Motor cannot be taught. While Thompson typically isn't your 4th pick in a draft with his talent and probably more like a late first or early second round pick, they knew what they wanted and they saw Thompson.

Thompson had a decent year. He struggled at the line though and he struggled from the field after the first few months of the season went along. He reminds of Brandon Bass, except without a jumper right now, but a bigger motor.

No he was a lottery pick by any measure, and going forward he will likely be a top five player from this draft, so taking him at 4 is indicative of where he will be in the future and where is is talentwise.

[LBJMVP]

cleveland was looking to rebuild the OKC way.

the wanted team chemistry to start immediately, and not wait a full season for their pick to begin to mesh with the PG.

plus european picks have always been risky in my opinion and clevleand didnt want to take the risk and took a player that they felt would be safer and had a ton of upside.

the cavs organization had been tracking thompson ever since high school.

[DStebb716]

Tristan Thompson had 27-12 against actual basketball players. Ya know, the ones in the NBA?

[Xiao Yao You]

Tristan Thompson had 27-12 against actual basketball players. Ya know, the ones in the NBA?

Which team? Charlotte is questionably NBA talent.

[RedBlackAttack]

No he was a lottery pick by any measure, and going forward he will likely be a top five player from this draft, so taking him at 4 is indicative of where he will be in the future and where is is talentwise.
Yeah... WTF are you talking about Meticode? :oldlol:

DraftExpress is generally considered the most informed and accurate draft/mock site out there. Here is where they had Tristan Thompson going a couple of days before the 2011 Draft...

1. Cavs - Kyrie Irving
2. T-Wolves - Derrick Williams
3. Jazz - Enes Kanter
4. Cavs - Jonas Valanciunas
5. Raptors - Bismack Biyombo
6. Wiz - Jan Vesely
7. Bobcats - Brandon Knight
8. Pistons - Tristan Thompson
9. Bobcats - Kemba Walker
10. Kings - Jimmer Fredette
11. GSW - Klay Thompson

http://www.draftexpress.com/nba-mock-draft/2011/

He was considered a pretty high lottery pick going into the 2011 draft. The Cavs just successfully hid just how interested they were in Tristan.

I mean, this year, Harrison Barnes could go as high as No. 2 to Charlotte or slip to Golden State at 7.

In the larger context, a guy who was expected to go in 7-10 range jumping up into the 4-5 range isn't all that uncommon. What made it really surprising last year was that no one sniffed it out prior to the draft and, in fact, everyone thought as though the Cavs had made up their mind on a completely different prospect (Jonas).

It wasn't that large a leap, really.

[Meticode]

I think you guys took my comment wrong. Which is my fault because I didn't explain it outright. I wasn't saying he should've went late in the first round, I'm saying in a talented draft he would've went lower, for example in this draft I feel he's a middle to late first round pick if he happened to be drafted this year being a freshman. Just my opinion. He was undoubtly a top-10 pick last year in that shallow draft class.

[RedBlackAttack]

I think you guys took my comment wrong. Which is my fault because I didn't explain it outright. I wasn't saying he should've went late in the first round, I'm saying in a talented draft he would've went lower, for example in this draft I feel he's a middle to late first round pick if he happened to be drafted this year being a freshman. Just my opinion. He was undoubtly a top-10 pick last year in that shallow draft class.
Hmmm... Are you saying last year's Tristan Thompson in this year's draft? Maybe he slips to the middle of the first round. I don't see him being any lower than that, though. Remember, he was just a freshman when he came out and I believe he was Freshman of the Year in the Big 12.

If you are saying that, had Tristan stayed in school another year and come out in this draft, he would have been a late first round pick, I completely disagree. He was a 9 point/8 rebound per game player last year at Texas in just a little over 20 minutes a game and with outstanding defense/shotblocking. Another year at Texas and he would have been one of the most sought after big men in this draft. Probably would have mostly dominated the Big 12 and would have had epic showdowns with Robinson that could have raised his profile even higher.

Impossible to know, at the end of the day.

[JtotheIzzo]

I think you guys took my comment wrong. Which is my fault because I didn't explain it outright. I wasn't saying he should've went late in the first round, I'm saying in a talented draft he would've went lower, for example in this draft I feel he's a middle to late first round pick if he happened to be drafted this year being a freshman. Just my opinion. He was undoubtly a top-10 pick last year in that shallow draft class.

disagree, he still goes lottery. his size and athleticism alone make him worth the risk, and being a great rebounder and shot blocker (stats which translate well at the next level) it is kind of a no brainer.

of this group:

1. Cavs - Kyrie Irving
2. T-Wolves - Derrick Williams
3. Jazz - Enes Kanter
4. Cavs - Jonas Valanciunas
5. Raptors - Bismack Biyombo
6. Wiz - Jan Vesely
7. Bobcats - Brandon Knight
8. Pistons - Tristan Thompson
9. Bobcats - Kemba Walker
10. Kings - Jimmer Fredette
11. GSW - Klay Thompson

I only see Irving having a markedly better career, and maybe Valanciunas, but then again JV could be a bust as well, Toronto's draft record is very suspect (Hoffa?).
Derrick Williams, Brandon Knight, Klay Thompson and Kemba Walker are the kind of talents that appear year after year in the draft, and very few end up being home runs (just ask the Sixers, they have a team full of guys like this). Why take one at 4 when you can get similar risk/reward any other draft.
Youth, size, athleticism, motor, defense, rebounding, shot blocking, Thompson's attributes can be built on and compliment a scoring PG nicely.

[G-train]

disagree, he still goes lottery. his size and athleticism alone make him worth the risk, and being a great rebounder and shot blocker (stats which translate well at the next level) it is kind of a no brainer.


TT's size isn't great, but his long arms help.
I do think he will be a good cavs player for 10 seasons.
I'm impressed with his touch around basket and his turn and face moves from the post.
Never looked in great shape to me all season, an entire offseason working out will definitely see an increase in mpg next season IMO.

[GOBB]

Maybe Meticode is trying to say Tristan Thompson doesnt go 4 if guys didnt pull out of the draft and stay in school. Making last years draft deeper than it was. That I agree with. No way Thompson goes 2nd round, but he'd go mid first had his peers come out. Wouldnt have sniffed 4. Now had Thompson himself stayed in college and came out this draft? He could throw himself in the top of the lottery. Plenty of players went higher than expected in 2011 draft. Nikola Vucevic the Sixers pick. Same deal, had guys not pulled out? Sixers probably are drafting Tristan Thompson and Vucevic goes late/early 2nd rd.

[B-Easy8]

disagree, he still goes lottery. his size and athleticism alone make him worth the risk, and being a great rebounder and shot blocker (stats which translate well at the next level) it is kind of a no brainer.

of this group:

1. Cavs - Kyrie Irving
2. T-Wolves - Derrick Williams
3. Jazz - Enes Kanter
4. Cavs - Jonas Valanciunas
5. Raptors - Bismack Biyombo
6. Wiz - Jan Vesely
7. Bobcats - Brandon Knight
8. Pistons - Tristan Thompson
9. Bobcats - Kemba Walker
10. Kings - Jimmer Fredette
11. GSW - Klay Thompson

I only see Irving having a markedly better career, and maybe Valanciunas, but then again JV could be a bust as well, Toronto's draft record is very suspect (Hoffa?).
Derrick Williams, Brandon Knight, Klay Thompson and Kemba Walker are the kind of talents that appear year after year in the draft, and very few end up being home runs (just ask the Sixers, they have a team full of guys like this). Why take one at 4 when you can get similar risk/reward any other draft.
Youth, size, athleticism, motor, defense, rebounding, shot blocking, Thompson's attributes can be built on and compliment a scoring PG nicely.

Kanter, Williams and Knight will all have better careers individually than Thompson. Kemba and Klay probably will also.

Out of that list Thompson is 10th in my opinion and Jimmer is the garbage 11th.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Derrick Williams is garbage

[DukeDelonte13]

Hell no. Jonas V hasn't proved anything yet. He has been inconsistent in a second tier euro league. He's risky, Cavs would have not only had to wait on the kid, they also would have to pay 2.5 million to free him from his euro contract. Cavs went with the sure thing in TT's rebounding and defense.

I'll buy into the Jonas hype when he puts up numbers in the NBA.

[R.I.P.]

Just by the law of averages I would have taken Kanter or Jonas. It

[ralph_i_el]

[QUOTE=R.I.P.]Just by the law of averages I would have taken Kanter or Jonas. It

[chips93]

if tomorrow, grant traded valanciunas straight up for tristan, id probably be happy, but not overjoyed

valanciunas looks like the better prospect right now, and looked like the much better prospect back before the draft, but tristan showed a lot this year

he does a lot of things that people arent gonna appreciate, but are very valuable. he has the foot speed to contain ball handlers in the pick and roll, which is a huge part of defense in todays nba, he blocked shots at a good level this year, and hes very young, and should improve, as he adjusts to the speed of the nba game, his touch around the basket, his offensive rebounding were both very good. he needs to continue to improve offensively, but his freethrow percentage indicates that he is very capapable of improving, and finally, his defensive rebounding needs work, but based off of his stellar offensive rebounding, id expect that to improve also.

david thorpe, a writer for espn, did a re-draft and had thompson going second, and in another article, ranking the rookies on potential, he had him second again

i wont be surprised if valanciunas ends up the better player, but its not like its gonna make the tristan pick a terrible choice, just not the perfect one.

[IGOTGAME]

i wont be surprised if valanciunas ends up the better player, but its not like its gonna make the tristan pick a terrible choice, just not the perfect one.

How many times do you get an opportunity at a prospect like Jonas? Honestly, a potential all star caliber 7 foot big man with bball iq, athletism, post moves and toughness... and you pass that up for a defender and rebounding power forward

If you wanna compete as a small market, this is the kind of pick you gotta make. And Jonas has made strides this year, his team just has not up'ed his usage much due to style of play. But, he does things that definitely translate to the NBA game. He does things that very few 7 footers in the NBA can.

[chips93]

How many times do you get an opportunity at a prospect like Jonas? Honestly, a potential all star caliber 7 foot big man with bball iq, athletism, post moves and toughness... and you pass that up for a defender and rebounding power forward

If you wanna compete as a small market, this is the kind of pick you gotta make. And Jonas has made strides this year, his team just has not up'ed his usage much due to style of play. But, he does things that definitely translate to the NBA game. He does things that very few 7 footers in the NBA can.

do you watch a lot of his games?

ive read a lot about him, but his post game, and his bball IQ were rarely things mentioned

from what ive heard hes still raw offensively

hes 7 foot, with a big wingspan, and good athleticism, but not much else right now.

do you have any scouting reports, things like that to back up all these strides you claim he has made?

[mobbdeep]

Kyrie Irving is the truth.

[IGOTGAME]

do you watch a lot of his games?


do you?

I have watched as many games as I can, double digits.

sorry but players who play the pick and roll like Jonas and execute pivot moves like that aren't "raw" in comparison to this NBA big man crop.

this reminds me when I was telling people here that Bynum wasn't raw a several years ago and had a great base for post moves combined with his touch....

[SilkkTheShocker]

do you?

I have watched as many games as I can, double digits.

sorry but players who play the pick and roll like Jonas and execute pivot moves like that aren't "raw" in comparison to this NBA big man crop.

Do you how to read? He said he has read a lot about him. Meaning he hasn't seen him play much, but hasn't read anything special about his post moves, etc.

[chips93]

do you?

I have watched as many games as I can, double digits.

sorry but players who play the pick and roll like Jonas and execute pivot moves like that aren't "raw" in comparison to this NBA big man crop.

this reminds me when I was telling people here that Bynum wasn't raw a several years ago and had a great base for post moves combined with his touch....

ive seen small bits, just from the euros last summer, but a lot of what you are saying contrasts with what professional scouts say about him, but you have a right to your opinion

tbh, i really dont care. ive seen enough of tristan to be very optimistic for the future. if jonas turns out to be a great player, so be it. when that time comes, maybe ill really regret it, but right now, it doesnt really bother me, i dont really get why you are so big on this guy, i see the potential, but right now its potential. when/if its actually realised, then maybe ill re-evaluate

:confusedshrug:

we'll have to just wait and see

[IGOTGAME]

Cavs are incompetant. #FreeKyrie

[Meticode]

No.

[LBJMVP]

Cavs are incompetant. #FreeKyrie


im starting to like the dion waiter pick...

dwayne wade potential?

i didnt want jeremy lamb and we need a shooting guard... same height as beal and averaged

12/2/2 plus 2 steals in 24 minutes a game.


shooting guard that shot 48% and 36 from the three.

as for zeller... atleast we got a true 7 footer... averaged 17/10 in the ACC... somthing good should come from that.

he like to run the floor and that moves varajoe back to his true power forward posistion though he will probly be playing center as tristan will be starting.



also i defintely do not regret taking thompson over jonas the least bit.

averaged 8/6 and was very raw and played limited minutes... he did have that 27/13 game

this guy is easily a double double guy.

[blacknapalm]

im starting to like the dion waiter pick...

dwayne wade potential?

i didnt want jeremy lamb and we need a shooting guard... same height as beal and averaged

12/2/2 plus 2 steals in 24 minutes a game.


shooting guard that shot 48% and 36 from the three.

as for zeller... atleast we got a true 7 footer... averaged 17/10 in the ACC... somthing good should come from that.

he like to run the floor and that moves varajoe back to his true power forward posistion though he will probly be playing center as tristan will be starting.



also i defintely do not regret taking thompson over jonas the least bit.

averaged 8/6 and was very raw and played limited minutes... he did have that 27/13 game

this guy is easily a double double guy.

you'll regret it when jonas becomes rookie of the year next year

[Meticode]

you'll regret it when jonas becomes rookie of the year next year
You'll regret you had an asshole when I stick my foot up it.

[chips93]

Cavs are incompetant. #FreeKyrie

you're obsessed

[blacknapalm]

You'll regret you had an asshole when I stick my foot up it.

:lol just some fun ribbing

FWIW, bilas really likes waiters and said he could contend for ROY

[Meticode]

:lol just some fun ribbing

FWIW, bilas really likes waiters and said he could contend for ROY
We'll see. It's from left field though.

[chips93]

really, we wont know if it was the right pick for a while

it just would have been nice to get a guy that you could go into the summer, and the next few years, having confidence, and peace of mind, that we got the right guy

[Meticode]

really, we wont know if it was the right pick for a while

it just would have been nice to get a guy that you could go into the summer, and the next few years, having confidence, and peace of mind, that we got the right guy
OH man, we're so f*cked :rant :cry:

[chips93]

OH man, we're so f*cked :rant :cry:

somebody has likely already mentioned this, somewhere on the forum, but this is a lot like when okc drafted westbrook

rose late on draftboards, a bit of a combo guard, can get to the rim, and was seen as a reach at the time, but turned out great

[B-Easy8]

Cavs could have Irving, Big V and T-Rob instead they have Irving, Thompson and Waiters. No wonder LeBron left that franchise.

[RedBlackAttack]

Cavs could have Irving, Big V and T-Rob instead they have Irving, Thompson and Waiters. No wonder LeBron left that franchise.
Oh, shut the f#ck up. You don't have any clue what any of Jonas, Robinson or Waiters will be in the NBA. Matter of fact, we still have no clue how good Thompson can be.

Everyone thinks they have a crystal ball. I was never high on Robinson... Rather have Tristan who is younger and has a higher upside, imo.

Lots of scouts believe that Waiters could be the best scorer in this draft. Cavs had Beal and MKG as their top two targets. They were put into a difficult spot when MJ pulled the trigger on MKG.

We'll see how it turns out. I've heard about enough of Valanciunus. Let's see how he does in the league before we anoint him the best big in that draft.


Btw, didn't you think the Cavs should go Derrick Williams/Brandon Knight prior to last year's draft and not even take Kyrie? I seem to recall that discussion.

[RedBlackAttack]

Several GMs admitted they kept their mouths shut about Dion Waiters before draft, in hopes he'd slide. More tomorrow, I promise.

https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO

He was the guy that Golden State had targeted at 7 and they would have taken him had he been there. I have less of an issue with this pick the more research I do and the more I watch his game. I have a feeling a lot of the people commenting have never seen him play.

[StateOfMind12]

https://twitter.com/SamAmicoFSO

He was the guy that Golden State had targeted at 7 and they would have taken him had he been there. I have less of an issue with this pick the more research I do and the more I watch his game. I have a feeling a lot of the people commenting have never seen him play.
I think it also has a lot do with the fact that he didn't start in College and the first college player to come to mind who didn't start in College and was a high lottery 1st round pick is Marvin Williams who is a massive bust.

I'm curious to see how Waiters does do but I think Waiters is a better pick than Barnes to be honest.

[InspiredLebowski]

If Waiters lives up to the hype and draft slot, good for him and good for Cleveland. I don't see it a damn bit. I've never been more confused by such a meteoric draft rise.

[B-Easy8]

Oh, shut the f#ck up. You don't have any clue what any of Jonas, Robinson or Waiters will be in the NBA. Matter of fact, we still have no clue how good Thompson can be.

Everyone thinks they have a crystal ball. I was never high on Robinson... Rather have Tristan who is younger and has a higher upside, imo.

Lots of scouts believe that Waiters could be the best scorer in this draft. Cavs had Beal and MKG as their top two targets. They were put into a difficult spot when MJ pulled the trigger on MKG.

We'll see how it turns out. I've heard about enough of Valanciunus. Let's see how he does in the league before we anoint him the best big in that draft.


Btw, didn't you think the Cavs should go Derrick Williams/Brandon Knight prior to last year's draft and not even take Kyrie? I seem to recall that discussion.

Yeah I did think that. I thought Williams and Kyrie would have been similar in terms of talent and I thought pairing Knight with Williams would have been better than pairing Kyrie with an average player. Williams has been the backup for arguably the best PF in the game all season, for all anyone knows he can still turn into an allstar.

Can you seriously tell me that you are happier with the 3 you have know over the 3 I listed? I never said Thompson and Waiters were scrubs but neither are worth the 4th pick.

[RedBlackAttack]

Yeah I did think that. I thought Williams and Kyrie would have been similar in terms of talent and I thought pairing Knight with Williams would have been better than pairing Kyrie with an average player. Williams has been the backup for arguably the best PF in the game all season, for all anyone knows he can still turn into an allstar.

Can you seriously tell me that you are happier with the 3 you have know over the 3 I listed? I never said Thompson and Waiters were scrubs but neither are worth the 4th pick.
I can honestly tell you that, yes. The only one that gives me pause is Jonas, because he is the guy that I wanted at No. 4 last year and I do think that he may become a nice player in the league... But, I've never been very impressed with Robinson's game and how it will translate on the next level. And, Tristan played a lot better last season than I expected and showed the capacity for massive improvement with his first offseason this year.

Furthermore, to address the first part of your post, I wouldn't trade Kyrie by himself for DWill and Knight... Both may turn into nice players, but this league is about superstars. Kyrie showed his rookie season that he is capable of being on that level.

I like how you conveniently note that we have no idea how good Williams may become, but then don't give that same benefit to Tristan... Who is younger and less experienced than Williams.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Cavs could have Irving, Big V and T-Rob instead they have Irving, Thompson and Waiters. No wonder LeBron left that franchise.


LOL at this T-wolves fans talking shit. Derrick Williams is trash

[RedBlackAttack]

Why don't we look back at some of what was written about Oklahoma City when they "reached" for Russell Westbrook at No. 4.


It'll be interesting to see where Seattle (or Oklahoma City) and Portland are at in five years. Actually, I take that back. I can already tell you that the Trail Blazers will have an NBA title and the SuperSonics will still be trying to reach the playoffs.

Why? Kevin Pritchard > Sam Presti and it's not even close.

You can't dispute how last year's first two picks played out, but how each team has handled this year's first selections will separate these two geographically close franchises for years to come.

Seattle needed either a true center or a point guard who could be a threat from outside to take some heat off of Kevin Durant. Instead, they drafted a combo guard who shot 33% from three-point range last season at UCLA. Russell Westbrook is a HUGE reach at No. 4. Do I think he's talented? Sure. First rounder? Absolutely. But 4th overall? For comparisons sake, Chris Paul was the 4th pick in 2005. That is an unreasonable comparison, but it goes to show you what you should still strive for that high in the draft.

If the Sonics couldn't move down, then Brook Lopez is great value that high. You've got a go-to guy in Durant, hopefully Jeff Green can be a nice compliment, and then Lopez could take care of the dirty work while still possessing an adequate array of offensive post moves to hold his own. Point guard was also a huge need, but since Durant still likes to play around the perimeter, it's my belief you want a guard who's a significant threat from outside as well, so that when Durant penetrates the opposing team is forced to sag off a bit. Jerryd Bayless can be that threat. He can't penetrate and run the fast break quite like Westbrook, but he can fill it up from anywhere and run the pick and roll with the best of them. The Sonics blew this high pick.

145 miles south, Trail Blazers GM Kevin Pritchard is quietly (can we say that?) building a very promising team that will have home court advantage in the 2009 NBA Playoffs. He's got a center in Greg Oden, a power forward in LaMarcus Aldrige, quickly developing wings in Travis Outlaw and Martell Webster, and of course an All-Star guard in Brandon Roy. What's left? A point guard. Since Roy is capable of handling the ball, a pure ball handler is not a mandate, but one who can become a major threat on the top of the key and who sets up Oden and Aldrige turns the Blazers into an extremely difficult team to defend.

What does Pritchard do Thursday night? Get the perfect player for his system: Jerryd Bayless. Not to mention, he picks up Joey Dorsey and Darrell Arthur to add some excellent post bench players.

A lot of factors play into whether an organization is successful, but when these two teams are separated by 20 wins each of the next couple years, look no further than the last several draft nights.

http://www.faniq.com/blog/NBA-Draft-1st-Round-Results-Russell-Westbrook-to-Seattle-Supersonics-at-No-4-the-First-Curveball-Blog-9888


...and, that wasn't some rogue report from draft night. It was the general sentiment around the Westbrook "reach."


We'll see how our reach plays out.

[IGOTGAME]

Cavs fans don't realize it yet but this will haunt them for years.

[SilkkTheShocker]

Cavs fans don't realize it yet but this will haunt them for years.

I doubt it. The guy will be stuck on the Raptors for years to come. Its not like he will be in their division getting Chicago or Indy over the hump. The guy is going to spend his prime in Toronto. Personally, I don't think Jonas is going to be nearly as good as some people think. But I don't think anyone will ever care with him in Toronto.

[IGOTGAME]

I doubt it. The guy will be stuck on the Raptors for years to come. Its not like he will be in their division getting Chicago or Indy over the hump. The guy is going to spend his prime in Toronto. Personally, I don't think Jonas is going to be nearly as good as some people think. But I don't think anyone will ever care with him in Toronto.

its a lost opportunity to get an all star center with a good attitude. Bynum is great but he is on borrowed time with his knees.

[SilkkTheShocker]

its a lost opportunity to get an all star center with a good attitude. Bynum is great but he is on borrowed time with his knees.

Maybe. But I think they would be more upset about missing out on Drummond, personally. Jonas never impressed me at all last season. Than again, his advanced stats say differently, so will see.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Far more upset about Drummond the Jonas

[jzek]

How much do the Cavaliers pay these draft scouts?

Hundreds of thousands of dollars to make the wrong choice.

[IGOTGAME]

Maybe. But I think they would be more upset about missing out on Drummond, personally. Jonas never impressed me at all last season. Than again, his advanced stats say differently, so will see.

They should be upset about that too. IT was obvious to anyone with eyes that Drummond and Jonas should have been picked earlier in the draft.

[Rubio2Gasol]

Far more upset about Drummond the Jonas

Hindsight is 20/20 but

Irving
Someone
Barnes
Bennett
Drummond

Looks absolutely fantastic. Not only on talent, but they're all perfect fits.

[Legends66NBA7]

I do like Jonas's determination to get better:

http://www.torontosun.com/2013/07/14/bulked-up-jonas-valanciunas-is-dominating-summer-league

[QUOTE]LAS VEGAS - One game into the first NBA summer league action he has ever experienced and already Jonas Valanciunas is the story of the tournament.

From Sports Illustrated to ESPN to CBS, all the major U.S. media players were left in awe of the Raptors big man who made his debut in the final game of Day 2 at the Las Vegas Summer League.

That it came in a loss to a Miami Heat squad that likely doesn

[DukeDelonte13]

Hindsight is 20/20 but

Irving
Someone
Barnes
Bennett
Drummond

Looks absolutely fantastic. Not only on talent, but they're all perfect fits.


:rolleyes:

Why does everybody overrate the sh*t out of Barnes and Jonas V?

Dion >>>> Barnes. Barnes can't create for himself. He's a complimentary player. Dion can run an offense and create opportunities for himself and his teammates.


and what has Jonas done so far that makes him so much better than TT? Last I checked TT averaged a double double with good defense in his second year coming into the league completely raw. Jonas didn't even want to come to Cleveland so its pretty much a moot point. Jonas' agent was playing games with the cavs FO and wasn't clear and when he would come overseas.

[KyrieTheFuture]

Hindsight is 20/20 but

Irving
Someone
Barnes
Bennett
Drummond

Looks absolutely fantastic. Not only on talent, but they're all perfect fits.

I'd much rather have Dion than Barnes. I may change my mind in 3 years, but right now I prefer Dion. He outplayed Barnes this year and he has a much higher ceiling.

[Rubio2Gasol]

What was Paul George a couple years ago?

Anyway it's not particularly about them being, it's about matching skillsets and forming a cohesive team.

[LBJMVP]

Why do people love hating on Cleveland ? We haven't made a bad draft choice yet? Irving is a beast, waiters could be the best shooting guard in the draft, and played an awesome Rookie year, Thompson is already a double double guy and has a lot of room to improve. Seller is gonna be one of the more mobile centers in the nba. And Bennett can't be spoken about yet. If we go back in the past to drafts u rake the same picks 10/10 times

[secund2nun]

The cavs have made some good draft choices over the past few years, but their failure to draft Drummond is a massive one. Drummond will become one of the best players in the NBA and will impact the game that even the Cavs best player Irving cannot

[DukeDelonte13]

The cavs have made some good draft choices over the past few years, but their failure to draft Drummond is a massive one. Drummond will become one of the best players in the NBA and will impact the game that even the Cavs best player Irving cannot


Drummond was drafted 9th. Eight different GMs passed on him, yet its the cavs that are the team the failed and f*cked their draft up. :rolleyes: It would be one thing if the cavs took a straight up bust over him but they didn't.

[RedBlackAttack]

Drummond was drafted 9th. Eight different GMs passed on him, yet its the cavs that are the team the failed and f*cked their draft up. :rolleyes: It would be one thing if the cavs took a straight up bust over him but they didn't.
Exactly. If the Cavs had drafted a Thomas Robinson who it is already safe to say is nearing bust territory, that would be one thing. Waiters was first team All-Rookie and had a pretty damn good first year.

I was very high on Drummond going into the draft (along with MKG and Beal), but it is really hard for me to complain about DWait at this stage. Maybe Drummond will end up becoming the best center in the league, but you can't expect a team to always take what turns out to be the best player on the board.

Btw, it's funny how the script has changed. Going into the draft, it was Robinson that everyone was saying the Cavs blew the pick by not taking. They were saying, "you shouldn't have taken Tristan Thompson in 2011 and then you could have taken the best player available -- TRob -- in 2012."

That was the most popular narrative last year. What happened to all those people?

Now, all the people who were killing Grant for not taking Robinson have switched it to Drummond.

No one bats 1.000. Waiters has proven himself worthy of a Top 4 pick so far in his career.

[secund2nun]

Drummond was drafted 9th. Eight different GMs passed on him, yet its the cavs that are the team the failed and f*cked their draft up. :rolleyes: It would be one thing if the cavs took a straight up bust over him but they didn't.

All the teams that passed up on him failed.

[KG215]

I'd much rather have Dion than Barnes. I may change my mind in 3 years, but right now I prefer Dion. He outplayed Barnes this year and he has a much higher ceiling.
Wouldn't go that far.

[IGOTGAME]

Exactly. If the Cavs had drafted a Thomas Robinson who it is already safe to say is nearing bust territory, that would be one thing. Waiters was first team All-Rookie and had a pretty damn good first year.

I was very high on Drummond going into the draft (along with MKG and Beal), but it is really hard for me to complain about DWait at this stage. Maybe Drummond will end up becoming the best center in the league, but you can't expect a team to always take what turns out to be the best player on the board.

Btw, it's funny how the script has changed. Going into the draft, it was Robinson that everyone was saying the Cavs blew the pick by not taking. They were saying, "you shouldn't have taken Tristan Thompson in 2011 and then you could have taken the best player available -- TRob -- in 2012."

That was the most popular narrative last year. What happened to all those people?

Now, all the people who were killing Grant for not taking Robinson have switched it to Drummond.

No one bats 1.000. Waiters has proven himself worthy of a Top 4 pick so far in his career.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269322

[KG215]

Why don't we look back at some of what was written about Oklahoma City when they "reached" for Russell Westbrook at No. 4.



http://www.faniq.com/blog/NBA-Draft-1st-Round-Results-Russell-Westbrook-to-Seattle-Supersonics-at-No-4-the-First-Curveball-Blog-9888


...and, that wasn't some rogue report from draft night. It was the general sentiment around the Westbrook "reach."


We'll see how our reach plays out.
Yet there's still some people that believe Westbrook was a "no-brainer" or "easy" pick at #4. I'll admit, I was down on the pick at the time, too, but that's because the few times I watched UCLA play that year, Russ didn't really standout or make an impression. Then the media started in on the pick, calling it a reach and whatnot, and it just drove home my original thought of it being a bad pick. Here we are, 5 years later, and he's a borderline top 5 player in the league.

Forgot to add...OKC, since Presti has taken over, has heavily relied on advanced metrics when making their draft picks; and, apparently, those numbers put Westbrook in a very favorable light when he was coming out of college. I know Chris Grant and the Cleveland FO applies the same strategy when making their draft picks.

[RedBlackAttack]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=269322
I know you were on the Drummond train. I wasn't referring to you when I said most were petitioning Thomas Robinson as the guy for the Cavs to take...

But that was the most popular rant at the time.


If you'll recall, I was also very high on Drummond.

June 16, 2012:


I'd be fired up with Drummond if he was our pick. I'm just not getting the idea that the Cavs are all that interested. It seems like they have their mind set on one of MKG, Beal or Barnes.

Drummond isn't getting much play here. Then again, the Tristan Thompson pick caught everyone by surprise last year, so you never know.

Point is, I think the Cavs are in a great spot. We are going to end up with a good player.

Reload this Page Cavs, Who should they take at 4? (http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=267665&page=3)

Waiters wasn't anywhere on my radar. That took me completely by surprise.

[RedBlackAttack]

Yet there's still some people that believe Westbrook was a "no-brainer" or "easy" pick at #4. I'll admit, I was down on the pick at the time, too, but that's because the few times I watched UCLA play that year, Russ didn't really standout or make an impression. Then the media started in on the pick, calling it a reach and whatnot, and it just drove home my original thought of it being a bad pick. Here we are, 5 years later, and he's a borderline top 5 player in the league.

Forgot to add...OKC, since Presti has taken over, has heavily relied on advanced metrics when making their draft picks; and, apparently, those numbers put Westbrook in a very favorable light when he was coming out of college. I know Chris Grant and the Cleveland FO applies the same strategy when making their draft picks.

Yeah, you were hardly alone. We went back and revived the old 2008 draft thread just to laugh at the ISH "experts" killing OKC for their "reach."

Here's a small sampling...


Russell Westbrook :roll:


Seattle selects... WESTBROOK?!

You have to be kidding me!


Westbrook to Seattle.

whhatttt.


:roll:

OMG. what a pick. hahaha someone is gonna get fired in Seattle soon. Westbrook over Bayless?:roll:


Westbrook? Shocker. I don't get this pick. Westbrook has a lot of upside, but 4 is wayyyyyyyyyyyy too high. :confusedshrug:


russell westbrook?!


I think Westbrook is gonig to be a disappointment. Not a total bust but a letdown in the way that Antonio Daniels is (good productive player but not as good as his draft placement suggested)


:roll::roll::roll:

No ****ing way that dude from the Mock Draft Thread could predict that insanity.

Where's RBP?

:roll:

I need to hear a Sonics' fans shock & anger.


whaaaaaaaaaat?

Lopez or bayless...

WESBROOK??


Horrible pick. Westbrook will be nothing more than a average to below average starter. Bayless should have gone here


nba draft has never been funnier. i bet all the gm's are freaking out right now

"What? they took westbrook? oh ****, idiots!"


holy sh*t...westbrook at 4?...he just entered major bust potential going that high...how does this help durant when westbrook can't shoot or handle the ball?...dude got drafted for defense and a couple highlight dunks...HUGE reach this high...


WESTBROOK??? Thats a dumb pick. A more athletic Earl Watson. Should have drafted Bayless


I think so too, he doesn't do anything to really impress me other than defense, Can anyone tell me what he really brings to table for Seattle.


If Seattle thinks Westbrook can be a PG, they are kidding themselves. Trying to turn a 2 guard into a PG almost never works.


city of seattle just called Clay Bennett and told him they are dropping the suit, he's free to leave town anytime


WTF Westbrook.:oldlol:


Seattle selecting Westbrook, on a scale of 1-10, is a 12 on the stupid scale.

They have no size- they have a ton of small guys.

BIG WOULD HAVE BEEN BETTER!


Durants demeanor right now is worrying me...is he just happy he they didnt draft any1 that will steal his shots?


I have a thread in the NBA Draft Forum,he's the 1st player from the Lottery to be out of the NBA.

He's an undersized slashing 2 with the inability to take over a game and doesn't have the court vision or instincts to become a PG.

He's going to be embarassed by the strong PG's he has to guard.

Anybody who saw him in college knows that he isn't physical enough to alter anyone's shots on defense Tajuan Porter completely outmuscled him to the basket earlier this season.


I cant believe they took Westbrook. How can you pass on Bayless for Westbrook? Bayless, Love, Gordon all better picks than Westbrook. Damn

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93142&page=106


It sort of puts into perspective how little we know (myself included) and how, at times, it's best to defer to the experts.

I'm in the same boat as you. On draft night, I was p!ssed about the Waiters pick. I was also p!ssed about the Thompson pick, but less so, because I was just relieved they took Kyrie No. 1.

After watching a little tape on Dion, I was very happy with the selection. It literally took me a few hours to come around on the pick. It was just such a surprise, I hadn't researched him prior to the draft. Same with Tristan.

By the time Anthony Bennett was the pick this year, I had prepared myself to be surprised and to not really question the pick before I had time to really take a hard look at it. Nothing Grant does surprises me now and, with his track record in Cleveland, I just assume his picks are going to pan out.

I really enjoy breaking down the draft beforehand and giving my two cents on prospects. It's fun. But, I also realize I don't know a quarter as much as the REAL experts, which is why they get paid to make the picks.

Whenever in doubt, defer to the experts. Otherwise, you risk looking totally foolish like all of the above quotes regarding the Westbrook pick.

[alenleomessi]

valanciunas has been meh so far as expected

[DukeDelonte13]

Wouldn't go that far.


If you really think Barnes has a higher ceiling than Dion you just simply are a terrible evaluator of basketball talent or you haven't really seen either guy play. I like Barnes, he's got good length, athleticism, and shooting ability but he can't handle the ball worth sh*t. His ceiling is high level role player. He will always be dependent on others creating opportunities for him.

[LBJMVP]

Exactly. If the Cavs had drafted a Thomas Robinson who it is already safe to say is nearing bust territory, that would be one thing. Waiters was first team All-Rookie and had a pretty damn good first year.

I was very high on Drummond going into the draft (along with MKG and Beal), but it is really hard for me to complain about DWait at this stage. Maybe Drummond will end up becoming the best center in the league, but you can't expect a team to always take what turns out to be the best player on the board.

Btw, it's funny how the script has changed. Going into the draft, it was Robinson that everyone was saying the Cavs blew the pick by not taking. They were saying, "you shouldn't have taken Tristan Thompson in 2011 and then you could have taken the best player available -- TRob -- in 2012."

That was the most popular narrative last year. What happened to all those people?

Now, all the people who were killing Grant for not taking Robinson have switched it to Drummond.

No one bats 1.000. Waiters has proven himself worthy of a Top 4 pick so far in his career.
This. I like how everyone is bashing us when we have had the most success with our top picks. Though no other team has had four top 4 picks in three years haha.

[KG215]

If you really think Barnes has a higher ceiling than Dion you just simply are a terrible evaluator of basketball talent or you haven't really seen either guy play. I like Barnes, he's got good length, athleticism, and shooting ability but he can't handle the ball worth sh*t. His ceiling is high level role player. He will always be dependent on others creating opportunities for him.
K.

The part I had a problem with is that he said Dion has a "much" higher ceiling, which simply isn't true...in my opinion.

And his handle is a lot better now, than it was in college. It may never be great, but if he keeps improving that aspect of his game, his ceiling certainly goes up because he can score from all 3 levels. And he's got the tools and has already shown brief signs of being able to be a very good defender.

I didn't say I think he has a higher ceiling than Waiters, I just think the notion that Waiters has a "much" higher ceiling is misguided and wrong.

[Jailblazers7]

If you really think Barnes has a higher ceiling than Dion you just simply are a terrible evaluator of basketball talent or you haven't really seen either guy play. I like Barnes, he's got good length, athleticism, and shooting ability but he can't handle the ball worth sh*t. His ceiling is high level role player. He will always be dependent on others creating opportunities for him.

Wow, someone is really sipping the Waiters kool-aid.

[KG215]

Yeah, you were hardly alone. We went back and revived the old 2008 draft thread just to laugh at the ISH "experts" killing OKC for their "reach."

Here's a small sampling...

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=93142&page=106


It sort of puts into perspective how little we know (myself included) and how, at times, it's best to defer to the experts.

I'm in the same boat as you. On draft night, I was p!ssed about the Waiters pick. I was also p!ssed about the Thompson pick, but less so, because I was just relieved they took Kyrie No. 1.

After watching a little tape on Dion, I was very happy with the selection. It literally took me a few hours to come around on the pick. It was just such a surprise, I hadn't researched him prior to the draft. Same with Tristan.

By the time Anthony Bennett was the pick this year, I had prepared myself to be surprised and to not really question the pick before I had time to really take a hard look at it. Nothing Grant does surprises me now and, with his track record in Cleveland, I just assume his picks are going to pan out.

I really enjoy breaking down the draft beforehand and giving my two cents on prospects. It's fun. But, I also realize I don't know a quarter as much as the REAL experts, which is why they get paid to make the picks.

Whenever in doubt, defer to the experts. Otherwise, you risk looking totally foolish like all of the above quotes regarding the Westbrook pick.
That was a fun read. You could go back and make just every poster on here look clueless/dumb (to some extent) if you go back and read the old draft threads. The amount of overreaction and knee-jerking is hilarious. I'm very guilty of doing the same thing during draft threads the last few years.

But yeah...I wasn't posting here at that time but I remember the Westbrook pick being very unpopular in general. Plenty of GMs (past and present) have a really bad draft history, but there's also a pretty good number that do know a lot more than us, and there's a reason they're getting paid to do things like evaluate and draft players.

[Nastradamus]

The cavs have made some good draft choices over the past few years, but their failure to draft Drummond is a massive one. Drummond will become one of the best players in the NBA and will impact the game that even the Cavs best player Irving cannot

Passing for Waiters of all people is an epic mistake.

[chips93]

and what has Jonas done so far that makes him so much better than TT? Last I checked TT averaged a double double with good defense in his second year coming into the league completely raw. Jonas didn't even want to come to Cleveland so its pretty much a moot point. Jonas' agent was playing games with the cavs FO and wasn't clear and when he would come overseas.

THIS

(for the 100th time)

[Doranku]

Yeah, you were hardly alone. We went back and revived the old 2008 draft thread just to laugh at the ISH "experts" killing OKC for their "reach."

Here's a small sampling...


:roll: :roll: :roll: My favorite is the one that talks about Durant being happy that they didn't draft someone who would take his shots.

If only they knew...

[LBJMVP]

Passing for Waiters of all people is an epic mistake.

waiters is legit. only an idiot would think otherwise.

[IGOTGAME]

Cavs front office has had so many chances over the years but they keep making critical mistakes.

Now you got this Kevin Love trade as well. Seems like a lot to deference to the guy that ditched you a few years ago

[MP.Trey]

I'm feeling pretty good about the TT choice right now.

[alenleomessi]

tristan had more impact in that hawks series than jonas had in his entire nba career so far.. pretty safe to say he has been a pretty big disapointment so far if not a bust.. kanter resurrected his career with that move to okc.. perhaps jonas should move too

[Legends66NBA7]

tristan had more impact in that hawks series than jonas had in his entire nba career so far.. pretty safe to say he has been a pretty big disapointment so far if not a bust.. kanter resurrected his career with that move to okc.. perhaps jonas should move too

Yeah, because they are playing with elite level players now in James and Westbrook now and Jonas never has. Off course he'll have similar impact if he played with talent like that.

[Legends66NBA7]

Jonas is not even better than prime Bargnani.. lol

Jonas the last 2 years is better than any Bargnani.

[RedBlackAttack]

Tristan is speaking for himself. Right now, I'm saying the 2011 draft was a home f#cking run for the Cavs. The only sad thing is that it's come out recently that the Cavs were trying like hell to jump back into the Top 10 for a third pick... which would have been Klay Thompson.


Cavaliers Tried To Draft Klay Thompson By Dealing For Third Top-10 Pick In 2011



The Cleveland Cavaliers attempted to acquire a third top-10 pick in the 2011 NBA Draft with Klay Thompson as the target, according to a source.

The Cavaliers selected Kyrie Irving first overall, followed by Tristan Thompson at No. 4.

The Cavaliers discussed a deal involving J.J. Hickson for the No. 7 pick, but the Sacramento Kings did a different deal with the Milwaukee Bucks.

Another option was a deal with the Utah Jazz for No. 12, but the Golden State Warriors selected Thompson at No. 11.



I've heard it was pretty close to happening. As you'll recall, JJ ended up in Sacramento anyways, so it is obvious they had an interest in him. They ended up trading the 7th pick to the Bobcats who took Bismack Biyombo. :hammerhead:


But, not too shabby ...

http://cavsnation.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/03/Kyrie-Thompson-draft.jpg

[Cocaine80s]

Cavs front office has had so many chances over the years but they keep making critical mistakes.

Now you got this Kevin Love trade as well. Seems like a lot to deference to the guy that ditched you a few years ago
:roll: :roll: :roll: