Kobe

[Boston C's]

If Kobe retired right now would he be a top 10 player of all time... right now I say no and that hes in the 12-15 range but when its all said and done He'll be there for me

What do you guys think

[ThaSwagg3r]

He has been in the Top 10 players of all-time since 2009. :facepalm

Players who are definitely ahead of Kobe

MJ
Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Magic
Bird

Those who have an argument over Kobe

Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan

That is just nine players. Nobody else really has a case over Kobe other than those nine. He is literally the 10th greatest player at the worst.

[AlphaWolf24]

If Kobe retired right now would he be a top 10 player of all time... right now I say no and that hes in the 12-15 range but when its all said and done He'll be there for me

What do you guys think


fool...99% of the basketball community have him in the Top 5....

http://images.mylot.com/userImages/images/postphotos/2321471.jpg White = Hardcore elitist online fan
Brown = average fan Kobe = voted the greatest player of the 2000's....

next

[ImmortalNemesis]

What an exciting an original thread. I can't wait to read the responses. ISH # 1 :applause:

[Boston C's]

He has been in the Top 10 players of all-time since 2009. :facepalm

Players who are definitely ahead of Kobe

MJ
Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Magic
Bird

Those who have an argument over Kobe

Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan

That is just nine players. Nobody else really has a case over Kobe other than those nine. He is literally the 10th greatest player at the worst.

For now throw in jerry west in there and thats 10 for me

[Boston C's]

fool...99% of the basketball community have him in the Top 5....

next

I find it laughable that you think 99 percent of the basketball community has him in the top 5 when its actually the opposite :facepalm

I have no problem with ppl thinking hes top 10 now but the kobe homers need to fall back if some ppl think hes not quite there yet

[The-Legend-24]

For now throw in jerry west in there and thats 10 for me
Wait, Jerry West over Kobe? :roll:

The majority of this board dislkes Kobe, so yea people will probably agree with you that he's not even top 10.

:oldlol:

[Heavincent]

He'll probably be top 5 by the time he's done. But if he retired today, he would be top 10.

[AlphaWolf24]

I find it laughable that you think 99 percent of the basketball community has him in the top 5 when its actually the opposite :facepalm

I have no problem with ppl thinking hes top 10 now but the kobe homers need to fall back if some ppl think hes not quite there yet

really?.....only a smallpercentage of hardcore online fans who think their viewpoint is Boss claim Kobe is in the top 12 - 15....

the rest of the fans who "watch" the game already voted him top 5...

Voted the greatest player of the 2000's....

better then Bird?..Yup

Better then Magic?....meh...but either way..he's already Top 5 in the majority's eyes.

[AlphaWolf24]

For now throw in jerry west in there and thats 10 for me


You watched Jerry West in his Prime??:lol

[Heavincent]

Even Jerry West has said that Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time.

[Boston C's]

really?.....only a smallpercentage of hardcore online fans who think their viewpoint is Boss claim Kobe is in the top 12 - 15....

the rest of the fans who "watch" the game already voted him top 5...

Voted the greatest player of the 2000's....

better then Bird?..Yup

Better then Magic?....meh...but either way..he's already Top 5 in the majority's eyes.

You really wanna sit here and tell me that kobe has a case over Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt, and Russell right now?!?!?! :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: that is truly funny

[winwin]

gino's brothers .. they don't give up .. they just don't :facepalm

[AlphaWolf24]

You really wanna sit here and tell me that kobe has a case over Jordan, Magic, Bird, Kareem, Wilt, and Russell right now?!?!?! :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: that is truly funny


Jordan?....when did I say Kobe was #1?..I said Top 5.....

Kobe over Bird?...Yes....

Kobe over Wilt?..Yes

Kobe over Russell?...Yes

Kobe over Magic?...= IMO......but many have Kobe as >


what's Funny is you talkin bout West.....:roll:





next

[Boston C's]

gino's brothers .. they don't give up .. they just don't :facepalm

Who the hell is gino... whats wrong wiht saying kobe is the 11th best player of all time?!?!?! you ppl are insane its not like i said he'll never crack the top 10 when its all said and done all i said is right now kobe in my opinion is not top 10 greatest of all time and you ppl act like its blasphemy to say so :facepalm The highest Kobe can finish I believe when its all said and done is 6th because He isn't going to get over Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, or Russell but nope all you kobe ******gers stay dreaming that hes the GOAT when it couldnt be further from the truth... next time when someone says an opinion try not to have a bitch fit about it especially when your arguing about a guy who doesnt give a shit about any of your lives and probably would laugh at the fact that you all worship the ground he walks on :facepalm an opinion is just what it is AN OPINION take it or leave it you can have your own but dont bash ppl for it because youll only look like an idiot

[AlphaWolf24]

gino's brothers .. they don't give up .. they just don't :facepalm


:roll: :roll: :roll: ....3 Brothers sharin 1 laptop.....:facepalm

[Boston C's]

Jordan?....when did I say Kobe was #1?..I said Top 5.....

Kobe over Bird?...Yes....

Kobe over Wilt?..Yes

Kobe over Russell?...Yes

Kobe over Magic?...= IMO......but many have Kobe as >


what's Funny is you talkin bout West.....:roll:





next

Neither of these... Kobe can possibly surpass bird when its done but all of those others have better credentials then he does... russell 11 rings and beast stats/accolades, Magic 5 rings with better accolades, bird 3 rings 3 mvps, Wilt? an absolute monster who put up eye popping numbers won a couple rings and mvps but his peak yrs are so amazing that they put him above kobe and Jordan I dont need to mention

Next

[AlphaWolf24]

Who the hell is gino... whats wrong wiht saying kobe is the 11th best player of all time?!?!?! you ppl are insane its not like i said he'll never crack the top 10 when its all said and done all i said is right now kobe in my opinion is not top 10 greatest of all time and you ppl act like its blasphemy to say so :facepalm The highest Kobe can finish I believe when its all said and done is 6th because He isn't going to get over Jordan, Magic, Kareem, Wilt, or Russell but nope all you kobe ******gers stay dreaming that hes the GOAT when it couldnt be further from the truth... next time when someone says an opinion try not to have a bitch fit about it especially when your arguing about a guy who doesnt give a shit about any of your lives and probably would laugh at the fact that you all worship the ground he walks on :facepalm an opinion is just what it is AN OPINION take it or leave it you can have your own but dont bash ppl for it because youll only look like an idiot


http://images2.fanpop.com/images/user_images/AlphaWolf-572152_730_540.jpg

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2173000/AlphaWolf-2173794_433_593.jpg

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2187000/AlphaWolf-2187974_666_800.jpg


:lol

[Boston C's]

Btw Alphawolf24 in no way shape or form do I agree with these rankings at all but I find it hilarious that you say most ppl put Kobe in the top 5

http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/ratings.cgi

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

O yea the whole world believes kobe is top 5 :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Keep Dreaming

[Boston C's]

http://images2.fanpop.com/images/user_images/AlphaWolf-572152_730_540.jpg

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2173000/AlphaWolf-2173794_433_593.jpg

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2187000/AlphaWolf-2187974_666_800.jpg


:lol

What a clever response :facepalm

easiest argument I have won in my life :lol

[AlphaWolf24]

Neither of these... Kobe can possibly surpass bird when its done but all of those others have better credentials then he does... russell 11 rings and beast stats/accolades, Magic 5 rings with better accolades, bird 3 rings 3 mvps, Wilt? an absolute monster who put up eye popping numbers won a couple rings and mvps but his peak yrs are so amazing that they put him above kobe and Jordan I dont need to mention

Next

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2174000/AlphaWolf-2174025_600_600.jpg


YAY..this is Fun!

[Boston C's]

When oscar robertson is in anybody's top 10 and put him over shaq and duncan, they lose all credibility.

This list is completely garbage... I was just making a point to alphawolf that not everyone has kobe in their top 5 because he suggested that 99 percent of the basketball community has kobe in their top 5 when thats not the case

[Vertical-24]

This list is completely garbage... I was just making a point to alphawolf that not everyone has kobe in their top 5 because he suggested that 99 percent of the basketball community has kobe in their top 5 when thats not the case

Well I think he meant that a good percentage of the basketball community has Kobe in their top 5. All this top player list stuff is strictly opinion and differs amongst the person asked. I mean yeah sure you have the people who usually always make the top 10 (Jordan, Bird, Magic, Wilt, Russell, etc. etc.) albeit some difference in opinion of exact ranking, but out of any modern player, Kobe has been the only one to really crack people's top besides Shaq and Duncan.

I say Kobe ends his career easily in the top 5 (which he's already ranked in some quarters) amongst the top 3 (yeah I went there).

[AMISTILLILL]

Could someone post a summary of the Gino brother thing? I recall reading the thread where the bulk of the story was outlined but I can't find it. All I remember is he tried to claim he and his brothers all share the same username.

[AlphaWolf24]

Btw Alphawolf24 in no way shape or form do I agree with these rankings at all but I find it hilarious that you say most ppl put Kobe in the top 5

http://www.basketball-reference.com/friv/ratings.cgi

:oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol: :oldlol:

O yea the whole world believes kobe is top 5 :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Keep Dreaming


Read what I wrote....a small % of hardcore online fans....

most fans used their common sense, which is why Kobe won in a landslide.

There's only one guy on that list who started the decade as one of the best in the game. He was already an all star. He was already a champion.

And guess what??

That same guy ended the decade as arguably THE best right now. One of the greatest to ever play. He's STILL an all star. He still moves more jerseys than any other NBA'r in the world. And what do you know....He ended the decade a champion. Where's the drop off??

Whether it's back to back 40 point games in the 2001 playoffs, 9 straight 40+ points in 2003, 62 in 3 quarters in 2005, 81 points in 2006, 4 consecutive 50+ in 2007, back to back finals appearances in 2008-2009 winning in all in the latter, getting a League MVP and a Finals MVP, the wall-to-wall First ALL NBA, First Team Defenses.....

Kobe has branded this decade from the beginning to the end.

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1600/kobepotd.jpg

TNT with millions of viewers> some random online reference site with 2,000 views ranking Kobe 32nd...

Landslide.......son!

(yawns) next

[Mr. Jabbar]

Stop denying Kobe the top 10 , hes already inside that group a long time ago...


Let it go...

[Boston C's]

Read what I wrote....a small % of hardcore online fans....

most fans used their common sense, which is why Kobe won in a landslide.

There's only one guy on that list who started the decade as one of the best in the game. He was already an all star. He was already a champion.

And guess what??

That same guy ended the decade as arguably THE best right now. One of the greatest to ever play. He's STILL an all star. He still moves more jerseys than any other NBA'r in the world. And what do you know....He ended the decade a champion. Where's the drop off??

Whether it's back to back 40 point games in the 2001 playoffs, 9 straight 40+ points in 2003, 62 in 3 quarters in 2005, 81 points in 2006, 4 consecutive 50+ in 2007, back to back finals appearances in 2008-2009 winning in all in the latter, getting a League MVP and a Finals MVP, the wall-to-wall First ALL NBA, First Team Defenses.....

Kobe has branded this decade from the beginning to the end.

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1600/kobepotd.jpg

TNT with millions of viewers> some random online reference sit with 2,000 views ranking Kobe 32nd...

Landslide.......son!

(yawns) next

Player of the Decade... fantastic how does that warrant him to being a top 5 player right now?!?! Here I'm thinking you said these viewers voted kobe in the top 5 of all time range... kobe is tremendous yes but is it really wrong to have an opinion to say that I believe hes the 11th best player of all time right now and could probably finish 6th when its all said and done? Apparently to hardcore kobe fans such as yourself thats blasphemy

[Boston C's]

Stop denying Kobe the top 10 , hes already inside that group a long time ago...


Let it go...

I'm not denying him anything I have no problem with people saying hes a top ten player right now all I'm stating is my opinion... you ppl need to let it go and stop trying to convince every human being in the world that kobe is God :facepalm

[Heavincent]

I'm not denying him anything I have no problem with people saying hes a top ten player right now all I'm stating is my opinion... you ppl need to let it go and stop trying to convince every human being in the world that kobe is God :facepalm

You're right. Kobe is not God...he's God's father.

[Mr. Jabbar]

I'm not denying him anything I have no problem with people saying hes a top ten player right now all I'm stating is my opinion... you ppl need to let it go and stop trying to convince every human being in the world that kobe is God :facepalm

Kobes no god, there are no gods in the top 10. Only humans. And one of them happens to suffer from extreme swagness, work ethic and accomplishments. Yep, the black Mamba. :rockon:

[AlphaWolf24]

Player of the Decade... fantastic how does that warrant him to being a top 5 player right now?!?! Here I'm thinking you said these viewers voted kobe in the top 5 of all time range... kobe is tremendous yes but is it really wrong to have an opinion to say that I believe hes the 11th best player of all time right now and could probably finish 6th when its all said and done? Apparently to hardcore kobe fans such as yourself thats blasphemy


because you posted a link to a site that had Shaq and Duncan ahead of Kobe and in the top 9 - 10....when MY link clearly shows Majority of fans think Kobe is a way better player then those 2...so going by your site Kobe is easily top 8 if he ranks ahead of Duncan and Shaq....and going by the Landslide Victory...Kobe would easily merk Hakeem and Kareem..when many media outlets put him as the greatest Laker of alltime.

2EZ

[Boston C's]

Kobes no god, there are no gods in the top 10. Only humans. And one of them happens to suffer from extreme swagness, work ethic and accomplishments. Yep, the black Mamba. :rockon:

Work ethic and accomplishments hell yea... swag sure except when he did that ridiculous photoshoot (you know what im talking about)

[D-Wade316]

:facepalm Kobe is not top 10. Get over it. He never will be.

[Led Balls]

Kobe, top 10. :bowdown: :bowdown:

[AlphaWolf24]

Work ethic and accomplishments hell yea... swag sure except when he did that ridiculous photoshoot (you know what im talking about)


http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2195000/AlphaWolf-2195680_500_800.jpg

Making people Mad since 97'....:lol

[Mr. Jabbar]

Work ethic and accomplishments hell yea... swag sure except when he did that ridiculous photoshoot (you know what im talking about)

Well, that was so damn ridiculous, it actually became swagness. Its like the Chriss Quinn pimp photo session:

http://t1.imgchili.com/276/276233_act_chris_quinn.jpg (http://imgchili.com/show/276/276233_act_chris_quinn.jpg)


I can smell that cologne...

[The-Legend-24]

:facepalm: Kobe is not top 10. Get over it. He never will be.
Just face it he's top 10, people have him in the 6th and 7th spot, by the time he retires he's gonna be in the top 5 because of His game, accomplishments, records, longevity, etc etc... Don't get butthurt that wade won't even sniff the top 10.

:oldlol:

[Boston C's]

because you posted a link to a site that had Shaq and Duncan ahead of Kobe and in the top 9 - 10....when MY link clearly shows Majority of fans think Kobe is a way better player then those 2...so going by your site Kobe is easily top 8 if he ranks ahead of Duncan and Shaq....and going by the Landslide Victory...Kobe would easily merk Hakeem and Kareem..when many media outlets put him as the greatest Laker of alltime.

2EZ

O yea real easy... you forget the list is the best player of the DECADE not all time... shaq after 04 was never himself so of course kobe at his peak is better then a past his prime shaq :facepalm and lets not forget duncan who had 3 beast yrs prior to this decade and a championship to his resume which doesnt go into his best of the decade argument... once again you fail :facepalm

Kobe merk kareem hahahaha your insane kareem has a legit case for GOAT kobe doesnt get over it :facepalm

[AlphaWolf24]

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2195000/AlphaWolf-2195685_460_618.jpg

Making random online sites Mad and ranking him 32nd since 01':roll:

[AlphaWolf24]

O yea real easy... you forget the list is the best player of the DECADE not all time... shaq after 04 was never himself so of course kobe at his peak is better then a past his prime shaq :facepalm and lets not forget duncan who had 3 beast yrs prior to this decade and a championship to his resume which doesnt go into his best of the decade argument... once again you fail :facepalm

Kobe merk kareem hahahaha your insane kareem has a legit case for GOAT kobe doesnt get over it :facepalm

Kareem gonna be shining Kobe's statue....

I watched Cap's whole career....still taking Kobe over a 1 dimensional Big Man..as would 90% of the basketball nation

[Boston C's]

Kareem gonna be shining Kobe's statue....

I watched Cap's whole career....still taking Kobe over a 1 dimensional Big Man..as would 90% of the basketball nation


This has to be one of the most dumbest posts I have ever read on this thread... you just called kareem a one dimensional big man :lol :lol :lol :lol I think after that I'm going to ignore everything you post because its obvious your not a very knowledgeable basketball fan

90 percent of the basketball nation disagrees with you btw :facepalm

[AlphaWolf24]

I'm out....I was bored so I entertained you.....your welcome.


1/10 Trole Thread..

next

Magic even said Kobe>Kareem......(bumps chest)



2EZ

[ballerz]

Yes kobe is top 10 and that is coming from a Celtics fan

[crosso√er]

He has been in the Top 10 players of all-time since 2009. :facepalm

Players who are definitely ahead of Kobe

MJ
Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Magic
Bird

Those who have an argument over Kobe

Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan

That is just nine players. Nobody else really has a case over Kobe other than those nine. He is literally the 10th greatest player at the worst.

Mosses Malone, Jerry West & Julius Erving have an argument. Although I wouldn't take any of them over Kobe (Mosses being the toughest), it isn't "set-in-stone" that Kobe is indisputably a top ten player. Just like I don't necessarily agree that Kobe shouldn't be above Duncan or Hakeem at this point, either. So As low as 13th & as high as 8th is about right; temporarily speaking. He could elevate his career further and be on the cusp of being occasionally mentioned in that legendary top five tier.

I personally see him jumping over Duncan & Hakeem by the time he retires and possibly Shaquille. By the end of his days; it could look something like this (remember he's still just 32).

1) Jordan
2) Kareem
3) Wilt
4) Russell
5) Magic
6) Bird
7) Bryant

He'd have to have a legendary finish to his career (2 championships & 2 FMVP; 3-4 All-Star, 1-2 1st team All-NBA) to actually legitimately have a shot at surpassing Magic, Bird & Russell. Slim chance of that happening but who knows.

[Boston C's]

Mosses Malone, Jerry West & Julius Erving have an argument. Although I wouldn't take any of them over Kobe (Mosses being the toughest), it isn't "set-in-stone" that Kobe is indisputably a top ten player. Just like I don't necessarily agree that Kobe shouldn't be above Duncan or Hakeem at this point, either. So As low as 13th & as high as 8th is about right; temporarily speaking. He could elevate his career further and be on the cusp of being occasionally mentioned in that legendary top five tier.

I personally see him jumping over Duncan & Hakeem by the time he retires and possibly Shaquille. By the end of his days; it could look something like this (remember he's still just 32).

1) Jordan
2) Kareem
3) Wilt
4) Russell
5) Magic
6) Bird
7) Bryant

He'd have to have a legendary finish to his career (2 championships & 2 FMVP; 3-4 All-Star, 1-2 1st team All-NBA) to actually legitimately have a shot at surpassing Magic, Bird & Russell. Slim chance of that happening but who knows.

I pretty much agree with everything here... I feel like He'll finish 8th though behind shaq when its all said and done but thats just me... when his career is over itll be easier to put it in perspective

[rmt]

Read what I wrote....a small % of hardcore online fans....

most fans used their common sense, which is why Kobe won in a landslide.

There's only one guy on that list who started the decade as one of the best in the game. He was already an all star. He was already a champion.

And guess what??

That same guy ended the decade as arguably THE best right now. One of the greatest to ever play. He's STILL an all star. He still moves more jerseys than any other NBA'r in the world. And what do you know....He ended the decade a champion. Where's the drop off??

Whether it's back to back 40 point games in the 2001 playoffs, 9 straight 40+ points in 2003, 62 in 3 quarters in 2005, 81 points in 2006, 4 consecutive 50+ in 2007, back to back finals appearances in 2008-2009 winning in all in the latter, getting a League MVP and a Finals MVP, the wall-to-wall First ALL NBA, First Team Defenses.....

Kobe has branded this decade from the beginning to the end.

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1600/kobepotd.jpg

TNT with millions of viewers> some random online reference site with 2,000 views ranking Kobe 32nd...

Landslide.......son!

(yawns) next

Apparently, millions of viewers are NOT using common sense if they voted Lebron James 2nd over Shaq and Duncan in a Player of the Decade (3 years of which he did not play and had zero championships) poll so there goes the credibility of that poll.

[Hittin_Shots]

because you posted a link to a site that had Shaq and Duncan ahead of Kobe and in the top 9 - 10....when MY link clearly shows Majority of fans think Kobe is a way better player then those 2...so going by your site Kobe is easily top 8 if he ranks ahead of Duncan and Shaq....and going by the Landslide Victory...Kobe would easily merk Hakeem and Kareem..when many media outlets put him as the greatest Laker of alltime.

2EZ

Nah Kobe and his employees just racked up a giant phone bill voting on that survey of urs.

[crosso√er]

Apparently, millions of viewers are NOT using common sense if they voted Lebron James 2nd over Shaq and Duncan in a Player of the Decade (3 years of which he did not play and had zero championships) poll so there goes the credibility of that poll.

Although I agree that James has no business being in front of Shaq & Duncan; and that the race should have been a lot closer. Kobe still received half of the votes; he ran away with it. He has won more championships then any player this decade, made more final appearances, started in more All-Star games then anyone, made more 1st All-NBA teams then anyone etc.

Longevity counts; he wasn't the best player of the last decade (peak wise) but he certainly was the best player. He was literally a top five player since the 2001 season. No other player could say that.

[crosso√er]

I pretty much agree with everything here... I feel like He'll finish 8th though behind shaq when its all said and done but thats just me... when his career is over itll be easier to put it in perspective

If he wins one more ring and one more FMVP; I don't see how he wouldn't leap frog Shaquille. He'll have two more titles (same amount of titles as Shaq being a #1 option & the same amount of FMVP) but his longevity will carry him through. Shaquille fell off the map in his 12th season; Kobe is still arguably a top five player in his 15th season in the league...longevity is why Kobe will finish above Shaquille, probably even without another ring.

[Allstar24]

If Kobe retired right now would he be a top 10 player of all time... right now I say no and that hes in the 12-15 range but when its all said and done He'll be there for me

What do you guys think
He already has 5 championships and endless individual accomplishments...if you think he's not a top 10 player yet, you are simply an idiot.

[Boston C's]

He already has 5 championships and endless individual accomplishments...if you think he's not a top 10 player yet, you are simply an idiot.

Its an opinion... I think he will be when his career is over without a doubt so get off his nuts :facepalm

[Hittin_Shots]

Although I agree that James has no business being in front of Shaq & Duncan; and that the race should have been a lot closer. Kobe still received half of the votes; he ran away with it. He has won more championships then any player this decade, made more final appearances, started in more All-Star games then anyone, made more 1st All-NBA teams then anyone etc.

Longevity counts; he wasn't the best player of the last decade (peak wise) but he certainly was the best player. He was literally a top five player since the 2001 season. No other player could say that.

Wrong

[Nick Young]

He has been in the Top 10 players of all-time since 2009. :facepalm

Players who are definitely ahead of Kobe

MJ
Kareem
Russell
Wilt
Magic
Bird

Those who have an argument over Kobe

Hakeem
Shaq
Duncan

That is just nine players. Nobody else really has a case over Kobe other than those nine. He is literally the 10th greatest player at the worst.
LOL One ring Hakeem better than Kobe? GTFO. Same with 4 ring shaq and duncan?

Kobester has more rings than Bird, same amount as Magic, and Russell played in a weak era. Same with Wilt.

Really only Magic, Jordan and Kareem have a case over Kobe.

THAT'S RIGHT KOBE IS TOP 4 OF ALL TIME, DEAL WIT IT

[Hittin_Shots]

LOL One ring Hakeem better than Kobe? GTFO. Same with 4 ring shaq and duncan?

Kobester has more rings than Bird, same amount as Magic, and Russell played in a weak era. Same with Wilt.

Really only Magic, Jordan and Kareem have a case over Kobe.

THAT'S RIGHT KOBE IS TOP 4 OF ALL TIME, DEAL WIT IT

Look at ur argument Russell must have a huge case, fkn 11 rings man, also Robert Horry 7 rings > 5

[Trentknicks]

Kobe has been named the no. 10 of all time on so many lists

[All Net]

:roll: Another topic already talked to death and yes Kobe is in the all time top 10 and has been for a while.

[GS1905]

I have him at #10 right now in my top10 list.

Players ahead of him (In no particular Order) : Jordan, KAJ, Magic, Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Hakeem, Duncan, Bird.

Yes, Kobe has 5 rings but only 2 rings as the first option. It was Shaq's team when they won 3 in a row. That's why in my book Kobe doesn't get that much credit for that 3 rings. He would be top 3 probably if he won all 5 as the first option. Then I would have no problem you guys listing him as top3 or top5 but he didn't.

If he wins 2 other rings then we would make a new list but I don't see that happening. He's not that athletic anymore. Last year he solely depended on jump shots and rarely attacked the rim. Right now he's not a top 3 player in the league.

On a side note I know he recently had a surgery so hopefully he come backs playing better than last year.

[NumberSix]

The majority of this board dislkes Kobe
Are you freaking kidding? Lol.

I have yet to see a single thread on this forum that doesn't instantly get flooded with Kobe fanboys.

Every single topic of "Who Do You Think Is The Best At _____?" is immediately flooded with people saying "#1. Kobe" even when it's something he's obviously not great at. Seriously, if somebody made a "Best Rebounder In The NBA" thread right now, by the 3rd or 4th post, somebody would say Kobe and seriously try to make a ridiculous argument why.

I have seen so many names on here that consist of typical Kobe fanboy words mixed together.

Here:

Kobe
24
Lakers
clutch
rings
instinct
GOAT
etc...

Seriously. I have seen so many screen names that are just a mash up of 2 or 3 of these words.

If you make a post about any bunch of players, tons of people will disregard everything about the other players and attack you for whatever you said about Kobe, even if it's blatantly true. They'll even attack for a complement if it's not jock riding enough up to their standards.

To say everybody on this board hates Kobe is so beyond absurd, I don't even have words for it.

[lakers87]

I believe Kobe has a strong case for top 10. The only ones I would consider clearly above him are

Jordan - No explanation needed.
Kareem- Rings/Stats,
Russell - Greatest winner in the NBA (even with a stacked team)
Wilt - Pioneer Big man. Stats. Had to run up against probably the most stacked dynasty in NBA history.



Guys like Bird, Magic, Duncan,Hakeem,Oscar have strong cases to be above him as well, but in my opinion, when all is said, Kobe will be ranked higher than them.

Kobe has gone up against a very strong class of SG's throughout his career. They were all compared to him at one point, and he has come out on top every single time. AI, TMAC, VC, Ray Allen, Wade (his career isn't over, but he isn't a spring chicken at this point).

Bird- I feel Kobe's superior defense gives him the edge along with more rings. He also played with a very stacked team and Kobe's longevity when all said and done, should give him the nod, albeit, a very small edge.

Magic-Very similar to Bird, but same rings as Kobe, but again, Kobe's defense gives him the slight edge. Career was cut short due to circumstances, but cannot hold that against Kobe.

Hakeem- Superior defensively and most possibly the most agile big man ever, but I feel that Hakeem did not make as big of a mark on the NBA as he could have. I may be the minority, but for a guy with that much skill and athleticism, he should be considered top 5, not a borderline top 10-15.

Duncan-This one is tough. As it stands now, I think Duncan is above Kobe, but we will see how the twilight of their careers play out.

[Big#50]

Kobe is top ten. He is number ten in my list.

[purplch0de]

when all said and done top 11 player, 9-11

[ShaqAttack3234]

I think that Kobe can be argued anywhere from top 6-10. I've gone back and forth on where he is on my list, I have him at 9th currently.

[purplch0de]

I think that Kobe can be argued anywhere from top 6-10. I've gone back and forth on where he is on my list, I have him at 9th currently.

BOSS has spoken :bowdown:

[Doranku]

:facepalm Kobe is not top 10. Get over it. He never will be.
:roll: @ Heat007 being mad because Wade ain't even sniffing the top 20 as of now.

How you afford a computer to post on after losing $20k on that Miami bet, breh? :lol :lol :lol

[Big#50]

I think that Kobe can be argued anywhere from top 6-10. I've gone back and forth on where he is on my list, I have him at 9th currently.
I think you're biased. You're a Kobe ******ger.

[Heavincent]

I think you're biased. You're a Kobe ******ger.

No he's not. He's the most neutral and balanced poster on here.

[Big#50]

No he's not. He's the most neutral and balanced poster on here.
Have you read his posts? He only posts about Kobe.

[Unstoppabull]

Even today he's a top 10 though, in the eye of most fans

[ShaqAttack3234]

I think you're biased. You're a Kobe ******ger.

:oldlol: You've been doing some real trolling lately. You're among the most biased posters here with 95% of your posts being ones to prop up Duncan.

Why is it that I've been called both a Kobe ******ger and a Kobe hater countless times? I guess it depends on the agenda of the trolling calling me either.

[Unstoppabull]

I believe Kobe has a strong case for top 10. The only ones I would consider clearly above him are

Jordan - No explanation needed.
Kareem- Rings/Stats,
Russell - Greatest winner in the NBA (even with a stacked team)
Wilt - Pioneer Big man. Stats. Had to run up against probably the most stacked dynasty in NBA history.



Guys like Bird, Magic, Duncan,Hakeem,Oscar have strong cases to be above him as well, but in my opinion, when all is said, Kobe will be ranked higher than them.

Kobe has gone up against a very strong class of SG's throughout his career. They were all compared to him at one point, and he has come out on top every single time. AI, TMAC, VC, Ray Allen, Wade (his career isn't over, but he isn't a spring chicken at this point).

Bird- I feel Kobe's superior defense gives him the edge along with more rings. He also played with a very stacked team and Kobe's longevity when all said and done, should give him the nod, albeit, a very small edge.

Magic-Very similar to Bird, but same rings as Kobe, but again, Kobe's defense gives him the slight edge. Career was cut short due to circumstances, but cannot hold that against Kobe.

Hakeem- Superior defensively and most possibly the most agile big man ever, but I feel that Hakeem did not make as big of a mark on the NBA as he could have. I may be the minority, but for a guy with that much skill and athleticism, he should be considered top 5, not a borderline top 10-15.

Duncan-This one is tough. As it stands now, I think Duncan is above Kobe, but we will see how the twilight of their careers play out.
You forgot to mention Shaq?

[AlphaWolf24]

You forgot to mention Shaq?


No he didn't....Shaq is not a better player then Magic , Kobe, Bird and Dream..

[DMV2]

I still have Shaq and Duncan over Kobe and those two guys are in the #7-#8 range.

[RRR3]

Are you freaking kidding? Lol.

I have yet to see a single thread on this forum that doesn't instantly get flooded with Kobe fanboys.

Every single topic of "Who Do You Think Is The Best At _____?" is immediately flooded with people saying "#1. Kobe" even when it's something he's obviously not great at. Seriously, if somebody made a "Best Rebounder In The NBA" thread right now, by the 3rd or 4th post, somebody would say Kobe and seriously try to make a ridiculous argument why.

I have seen so many names on here that consist of typical Kobe fanboy words mixed together.

Here:

Kobe
24
Lakers
clutch
rings
instinct
GOAT
etc...

Seriously. I have seen so many screen names that are just a mash up of 2 or 3 of these words.

If you make a post about any bunch of players, tons of people will disregard everything about the other players and attack you for whatever you said about Kobe, even if it's blatantly true. They'll even attack for a complement if it's not jock riding enough up to their standards.

To say everybody on this board hates Kobe is so beyond absurd, I don't even have words for it.

:cheers:

[Sakkreth]

He's clearly 11th in my list.

[RRR3]

I have Kobe somewhere around 12th, but I don't have a problem with him being top 10. You people claiming he's top 5, though, are just :facepalm :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Heavincent]

I have Kobe somewhere around 12th, but I don't have a problem with him being top 10. You people claiming he's top 5, though, are just :facepalm :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Charles Barkley thinks he is top 5. Just saying.

[RRR3]

Charles Barkley thinks he is top 5. Just saying.
Kobe Bryant is barely better than Barkley. Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Shaq are all clearly better. Then you have Hakeem, Duncan, Big O. Then it gets more debatable with guys like Karl Malone and KG. At least 5 of the guys I listed are better than Kobe and that's not debatable. Pick any five you want. BTW LeBron most likely will have a better career (LOL all you want, it's still likely) and Wade has a shot too.

[Big#50]

:oldlol: You've been doing some real trolling lately. You're among the most biased posters here with 95% of your posts being ones to prop up Duncan.

Why is it that I've been called both a Kobe ******ger and a Kobe hater countless times? I guess it depends on the agenda of the trolling calling me either.
Relax, man. I was joking. I'd say 80%.

[TAC602]

Kobe Bryant is barely better than Barkley. Jordan, Wilt, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Shaq are all clearly better. Then you have Hakeem, Duncan, Big O. Then it gets more debatable with guys like Karl Malone and KG. At least 5 of the guys I listed are better than Kobe and that's not debatable. Pick any five you want. BTW LeBron most likely will have a better career (LOL all you want, it's still likely) and Wade has a shot too.

I don't see any reason he's better than Hakeem & Duncan.

Kobe is put ahead of a lot of players who were arguably better than him and had more impact on a game, but he is in front of them based on accomplishments and accomplishments alone. When you compare him to guys like Hakeem and Duncan, who also won titles, have accolades, then it becomes ridiculous. We're talking about arguably the two greatest defensive anchors since the post-merger... and they don't have Ben Wallace's offensive game.

[oolalaa]

holy moly, am i the only who ranks west higher than kobe?!

he is number 11 on my list:
1. jordan
2. magic
3. russell
4. kareem
5. bird
6. duncan
7. shaq
8. wilt
9. west
10. hakeem
11. kobe
12. oscar

judging by the posts in this thread, a lot of people overrate him :roll: at anyone who ranks him at number 8 or higher...

[oolalaa]

Are you freaking kidding? Lol.

I have yet to see a single thread on this forum that doesn't instantly get flooded with Kobe fanboys.

Every single topic of "Who Do You Think Is The Best At _____?" is immediately flooded with people saying "#1. Kobe" even when it's something he's obviously not great at. Seriously, if somebody made a "Best Rebounder In The NBA" thread right now, by the 3rd or 4th post, somebody would say Kobe and seriously try to make a ridiculous argument why.

I have seen so many names on here that consist of typical Kobe fanboy words mixed together.

Here:

Kobe
24
Lakers
clutch
rings
instinct
GOAT
etc...

Seriously. I have seen so many screen names that are just a mash up of 2 or 3 of these words.

If you make a post about any bunch of players, tons of people will disregard everything about the other players and attack you for whatever you said about Kobe, even if it's blatantly true. They'll even attack for a complement if it's not jock riding enough up to their standards.

To say everybody on this board hates Kobe is so beyond absurd, I don't even have words for it.

don't forget:

81
62 3/4

:roll:

[Fade-away]

I have him 10 on my all-time list but at age 33 and having played 15 season already i don't see him moving up that much anymore.

[ThaSwagg3r]

I have Kobe above Hakeem. Hakeem was clearly better in his peak and he clearly had more impact in the game. Although that is mainly because he is a big man and not a wing player. Bigs always have and always will have more of an impact on the game than any other position in basketball.

Kobe accomplished more than Hakeem did. They both have two finals MVP and two rings as the alpha of their team. A lot of people don't like to credit Kobe's three rings as the sidekick or 2nd option to Shaq, but I feel like he should get credit for it. If we were to take away Kobe's three rings as the 2nd option then we should take away the rings Kareem and Magic had when they were 2nd bananas to each other.

Kobe has five championship rings and two finals MVP. Hakeem also has two finals MVP but only two championship rings.

Both of them only had one league MVP, Kobe in 2008 and Hakeem in 1994 although many argue that they both should have more.

Kobe also has more first teams than Hakeem did (9 vs. 6) and believe it or not he even has more all-defensive selections than Hakeem did (11 vs. 9).

Hakeem did have two DPOYs in 93 and 94 but I am not sure if that is enough to overcome Kobe's other accomplishments over Hakeem.

[AlphaWolf24]

holy moly, am i the only who ranks west higher than kobe?!

he is number 11 on my list:
1. jordan
2. kareem
3. magic
4. bird
5. duncan
6. shaq
7. russell
8. wilt
9. west
10. hakeem
11. kobe
12. oscar

judging by the posts in this thread, a lot of people overrate him :roll: at anyone who ranks him at number 8 or higher...

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2184000/AlphaWolf-2184630_340_473.jpg

you do understand that most basketball fans think your list is "very funny"...??


verry funny...:lol

[oolalaa]

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2184000/AlphaWolf-2184630_340_473.jpg

you do understand that most basketball fans think your list is "very funny"...??


verry funny...:lol

:roll: did you ask what my criteria was for ranking players? do you understand that every single top 10 all time list is different (i mean every single one. i have yet to see two that are identical) because everyone weighs criteria differently.

you probably saw that ive only posted like 7 times on this forum and assumed i must be wet behind the ears :hammerhead:

the two players i have a little trouble ranking are bird and russell. russell could maybe be as high as number 4. bird could be as low as number 7. either way this stuff is incredibly subjective and :lol at you saying "most basketball fans think your list is "very funny"".

i am in a better position to judge the ranking of players than 'most' basketball fans...

[Boston C's]

Lord have mercy kobe fans just because some ppl dont think hes top ten YET doesnt mean were bashing the guy... we know kobes an all time great but everyone has an opinion and just cuz it doesnt agree with most of you ppl saying hes top 5 doesnt mean its wrong :facepalm

[Eric Cartman]

#9 on my list as we speak. If he wins another title he is locked in my #4 behind Jordan, Kareem & Magic.

[Heavincent]

:roll: did you ask what my criteria was for ranking players? do you understand that every single top 10 all time list is different (i mean every single one. i have yet to see two that are identical) because everyone weighs criteria differently.

you probably saw that ive only posted like 7 times on this forum and assumed i must be wet behind the ears :hammerhead:

the two players i have a little trouble ranking are bird and russell. russell could maybe be as high as number 4. bird could be as low as number 7. either way this stuff is incredibly subjective and :lol at you saying "most basketball fans think your list is "very funny"".

i am in a better position to judge the ranking of players than 'most' basketball fans...

Jerry west himself has said that Kobe is the best Laker of all time.

[rmt]

I have Kobe above Hakeem. Hakeem was clearly better in his peak and he clearly had more impact in the game. Although that is mainly because he is a big man and not a wing player. Bigs always have and always will have more of an impact on the game than any other position in basketball.

Kobe accomplished more than Hakeem did. They both have two finals MVP and two rings as the alpha of their team. A lot of people don't like to credit Kobe's three rings as the sidekick or 2nd option to Shaq, but I feel like he should get credit for it. If we were to take away Kobe's three rings as the 2nd option then we should take away the rings Kareem and Magic had when they were 2nd bananas to each other.

Kobe has five championship rings and two finals MVP. Hakeem also has two finals MVP but only two championship rings.

Both of them only had one league MVP, Kobe in 2008 and Hakeem in 1994 although many argue that they both should have more.

Kobe also has more first teams than Hakeem did (9 vs. 6) and believe it or not he even has more all-defensive selections than Hakeem did (11 vs. 9).

Hakeem did have two DPOYs in 93 and 94 but I am not sure if that is enough to overcome Kobe's other accomplishments over Hakeem.

An unbiased, objective post until you hit the all-defensive selections that Kobe did not deserve (especially in the last few years) - I know you too can't believe Kobe's got more selections than Hakeem. I think we all know that Kobe doesn't have anywhere near the defensive impact that Hakeem (one of the greatest defensive anchors) had - especially when Kobe expends all his energy on the offensive end.

Kobe's #9 on my list only because of sheer accomplishments - no way in h@ll is he better than Hakeem or did he carry a team like Hakeem did in '94. Those 3 rings as Shaq's sidekick are just too much to overcome - too bad for Hakeem that he wasn't as lucky with his team mates (prime Shaq).

[TAC602]

An unbiased, objective post until you hit the all-defensive selections that Kobe did not deserve (especially in the last few years) - I know you too can't believe Kobe's got more selections than Hakeem. I think we all know that Kobe doesn't have anywhere near the defensive impact that Hakeem (one of the greatest defensive anchors) had - especially when Kobe expends all his energy on the offensive end.

Kobe's #9 on my list only because of sheer accomplishments - no way in h@ll is he better than Hakeem or did he carry a team like Hakeem did in '94. Those 3 rings as Shaq's sidekick are just too much to overcome - too bad for Hakeem that he wasn't as lucky with his team mates (prime Shaq).

It also doesn't hold as much weight since Olajuwon was competing with the likes of prime Patrick Ewing and David Robinson for first team, as well as a young, athletic Shaq in the mid-90s. On defensive teams, its the same group sans Shaq, however Mark Eaton, Dikemebe Mutombo enter the picture. All for one spot, not two as is with Guards and Forwards. It's also worth mentioning Olajuwon ran through most of those guys en route to his titles and accolades.

I stated Kobe is ranked ahead due to accomplishments, then was given a list of reasons why Kobe is better, based all on accomplishments. It's subjective as to what criteria is used and those are important, but I put just as much emphasis on peak/impact as well as playoffs. I'll take Olajuwon easily.

[oolalaa]

Jerry west himself has said that Kobe is the best Laker of all time.

yes he did. so?

[rmt]

Jerry west himself has said that Kobe is the best Laker of all time.

So Kobe's better than KAJ, Magic and Wilt? Okaaaay, probably why it's best not to believe everything we read or hear.

[EllEffEll]

Jerry west himself has said that Kobe is the best Laker of all time.

Jerry West's picture should be in the dictionary included in the definition of "humble".

Just sayin' :pimp:

[Heavincent]

So Kobe's better than KAJ, Magic and Wilt? Okaaaay, probably why it's best not to believe everything we read or hear.

I didn't say I think that. It's just Jerry West's opinion.

[ThaSwagg3r]

An unbiased, objective post until you hit the all-defensive selections that Kobe did not deserve (especially in the last few years) - I know you too can't believe Kobe's got more selections than Hakeem. I think we all know that Kobe doesn't have anywhere near the defensive impact that Hakeem (one of the greatest defensive anchors) had - especially when Kobe expends all his energy on the offensive end..
I was just listing a fact and it is a fact that Kobe has more all-defensive selections than Hakeem did. Whether he deserved them or not is very subjective. The reality is that he does have 11 total all-defensive selections (possibly counting) while Hakeem only had 9.

I think Hakeem was worlds ahead of Kobe defensively especially if you factor in his two DPOY awards in '94 and '95, but he doesn't have more all-defensive selections than Kobe.



Kobe's #9 on my list only because of sheer accomplishments - no way in h@ll is he better than Hakeem or did he carry a team like Hakeem did in '94. Those 3 rings as Shaq's sidekick are just too much to overcome - too bad for Hakeem that he wasn't as lucky with his team mates (prime Shaq)
I feel the same way. If we are just comparing peaks and primes here then I would take Hakeem over Kobe without thinking twice. Hakeem is probably top 5-7 as far as primes/peaks are concerned but his lack of accomplishments compared to their other all-time greats in the top drag him down. With Hakeem's talent level he should have won more championships and more MVPs but he didn't.

Kobe is probably the greatest overachiever this league has ever seen.

It's arguably that Kobe in his prime wasn't even better than Lebron in his although I would defend Kobe in that argument. Comparing all time greats to me goes beyond prime and peak....

[RRR3]

I didn't say I think that. It's just Jerry West's opinion.
Didn't Jerry West also say that LeBron was better than Kobe? :roll:

[Odinn]

Kobe is a top 10 player ever IMO. Also I think 7-12 range acceptable.

My list;
1. Kareem
1. Jordan
3. Magic
4. Russell
5. Bird
6. Wilt
6. Duncan
6. Shaq
9. Kobe
10. Hakeem
10. Moses
12. Dr. J
12. J. West

If you rank Kobe as a top 5 player ever, you're Kobe-tard.
If you do not rank Kobe as a top 12 player ever, you're just trolling.

I almost hate that guy but some facts make him top 10 ever...

[rmt]

I was just listing a fact and it is a fact that Kobe has more all-defensive selections than Hakeem did. Whether he deserved them or not is very subjective. The reality is that he does have 11 total all-defensive selections (possibly counting) while Hakeem only had 9.

I think Hakeem was worlds ahead of Kobe defensively especially if you factor in his two DPOY awards in '94 and '95, but he doesn't have more all-defensive selections than Kobe.
Yeah, I know where you're coming from.


I feel the same way. If we are just comparing peaks and primes here then I would take Hakeem over Kobe without thinking twice. Hakeem is probably top 5-7 as far as primes/peaks are concerned but his lack of accomplishments compared to their other all-time greats in the top drag him down. With Hakeem's talent level he should have won more championships and more MVPs but he didn't.

Kobe is probably the greatest overachiever this league has ever seen.

It's arguably that Kobe in his prime wasn't even better than Lebron in his although I would defend Kobe in that argument. Comparing all time greats to me goes beyond prime and peak....

I see Kobe and Lebron a little differently. To me, it's surprising that Lebron has the (regular) season stats he has when he is (relatively - compared to the greats) not skilled (relies so much on his athleticism). I suspect it's the (relative) lack of skill that is causing him to come up short in the big moments (and of course, the opponent's increased defensive intensity).

Kobe, OTOH, is very skilled but somehow it hasn't translated to the dominance that I see from the other greats in the big moments. I don't know if it's because he wants it so much/tries so hard, or because I'm comparing him to MJ, Magic and Bird or because he falls short compared to the great big men (big men advantage vs wings). The achievements are piling up but I just don't see the dominance/impact. Maybe it's because the beginning of his prime was with Shaq, the end of his prime is with Gasol/Bynum/Odom but his peak years (mid-decade) were so forgettable (didn't contend).

[Eat Like A Bosh]

As of right now, if Kobe retired today, he would most likely be in the top 10. He's at #12 at the very worst. But Kobe does have a case over Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem.

His career is not over yet though, not everything is set in stone yet. Longevity is on Kobe's side, as Shaq pretty much fell off a cliff starting his last Miami year. Duncan is in similar decline, but hasn't fell off drastically like Shaq, and has not swapped teams in order to chase rings. Kobe is still a top 5 player in the league, will be for a couple for years I believe. Kobe will be 33 by the end of the summer. Assuming he plays 5 more years, while still playing at a high level in 2-3 of them, wins 1-2 more titles and FMVP, MVP, gets a couple more selections, Kobe has a real chance to break top 5, potentially touching guys like Larry Bird or Magic Johnson. Like I said, longevity is on his side, and that's what he has over his peers. After playing a couple more years, all those stats and awards will just pile up overtime. If he wins another title and MVP, he will have a strong case over his peers.

Anyone ranks Kobe in the top 5 right now is a biased Kobe nut hugger. Likewise, anyone who ranks Kobe after 12 is just a retarded troll.

[RRR3]

As of right now, if Kobe retired today, he would most likely be in the top 10. He's at #12 at the very worst. But Kobe does have a case over Duncan, Shaq, Hakeem.

His career is not over yet though, not everything is set in stone yet. Longevity is on Kobe's side, as Shaq pretty much fell off a cliff starting his last Miami year. Duncan is in similar decline, but hasn't fell off drastically like Shaq, and has not swapped teams in order to chase rings. Kobe is still a top 5 player in the league, will be for a couple for years I believe. Kobe will be 33 by the end of the summer. Assuming he plays 5 more years, while still playing at a high level in 2-3 of them, wins 1-2 more titles and FMVP, MVP, gets a couple more selections, Kobe has a real chance to break top 5, potentially touching guys like Larry Bird or Magic Johnson. Like I said, longevity is on his side, and that's what he has over his peers. After playing a couple more years, all those stats and awards will just pile up overtime. If he wins another title and MVP, he will have a strong case over his peers.

Anyone ranks Kobe in the top 5 right now is a biased Kobe nut hugger. Likewise, anyone who ranks Kobe after 12 is just a retarded troll.
:wtf: LBJ, Dwight, Wade, CP3 (healthy), Durant, Dirk and/or Amare are better.

[chips93]

:wtf: LBJ, Dwight, Wade, CP3 (healthy), Durant, Dirk and/or Amare are better.


love cp3, but he hasnt been healthy for two years. the cp3 we saw this year wasnt the cp3 of 08 or 09. his series against the lakers has him severely overrated.

kobe sits in the second tier of nba players for me

first tier:
howard
lebron
wade
dirk

second tier:
kobe
rose
durant

id have him 5-7

[Jacks3]

People are focusing too much on accolades/accomplishments/rings.

Kobe should only be on your top 10 list if u think (at his prime) he's better at playing the game of basketball better than all but 8-9 guys...

Players indisputably ahead:
Jordan
Russ
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Hakeem
Shaq

Arguable imo:
Duncan
KG
Malone
Barkley
LeBron

So yeah, he's anywhere from 10-15.

[ShaqAttack3234]

People are focusing too much on accolades/accomplishments/rings.

Kobe should only be on your top 10 list if u think (at his prime) he's better at playing the game of basketball better than all but 8-9 guys...

Players indisputably ahead:
Jordan
Russ
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Hakeem
Shaq

Arguable imo:
Duncan
KG
Malone
Barkley
LeBron

So yeah, he's anywhere from 10-15.

I'd take Kobe over Malone without hesitating.

Malone's scoring ability is really overrated, imo. He benefited greatly from playing with Stockton in that system where he could get easier baskets, and if he could've still done that in the playoffs at a similar level, then I wouldn't complain, but everyone knows that defense and competition is better in the playoffs, and the drop in Malone's efficiency is unbelievable.

I'm not on my home computer so I don't have the stats and don't feel like calculating them now, but in '98, Malone was at something like 28 ppg with Stockton on something like 55 FG%, 61 TS% and without Stockton, was a bit below 25 ppg, I believe 24.8 on 52 FG%/58 TS%, iirc and with 3.7 TO, don't remember how many turnovers he averaged with Stockton, but his season average for all of the games was 3.0 turnovers so significantly different.

And that's an 18 game sample size, pretty significant for such a noticeable difference in numbers. Not to mention that Stockton was just a 29 mpg player at that point. The numbers are still very impressive, and I'm not saying he wouldn't have been a great player regardless, because that's ridiculous, but I've really changed my mind a lot on Malone. I had a different view of him as a kid, thought he was better than he really was, but watching the games and taking into account situations rather than focusing too much on just production and status in the league, he clearly wasn't as good as Kobe or Barkley.

I believe in Malone's last season in Utah, he was assisted on 80% of his baskets, unfortunately, I can't find numbers for anything earlier than that. Will check 82games to verify that number when I'm on my home computer Monday, for some odd reason, the stats for 2002-2003 don't show on this one. I expected that he was assisted on a high number of baskets, but 80% shocked me. Even Amare in Phoenix, wasn't getting assisted on anywhere near that many baskets.

I also don't give him as much of a boost as I used to in my rankings due to his incredible longevity. I focus more on prime as well as the most important factor in my rankings. That, and the ability to perform in the playoffs, and the 2 go hand in hand in my opinion.

[StacksOnDeck]

People are focusing too much on accolades/accomplishments/rings.

Kobe should only be on your top 10 list if u think (at his prime) he's better at playing the game of basketball better than all but 8-9 guys...

Players indisputably ahead:
Jordan
Russ
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Hakeem
Shaq

Arguable imo:
Duncan
KG
Malone
Barkley
LeBron

So yeah, he's anywhere from 10-15.

Lebron? :rolleyes:

[Jacks3]

LeBron has the better one-yr peak. Not sure if that makes him the better basketball player because Kobe is better in the playoffs imo, and his skill-set seems like it would be more beneficial to a wider variety of teams and players. He's just so much better as a off-the ball player and shooter. I also think intangibles have to be included when judging how good a player is, and Kobe is undoubtedly more much competitive and hard-working....

[Jacks3]

I'd take Kobe over Malone without hesitating.

Malone's scoring ability is really overrated, imo. He benefited greatly from playing with Stockton in that system where he could get easier baskets, and if he could've still done that in the playoffs at a similar level, then I wouldn't complain, but everyone knows that defense and competition is better in the playoffs, and the drop in Malone's efficiency is unbelievable.

I'm not on my home computer so I don't have the stats and don't feel like calculating them now, but in '98, Malone was at something like 28 ppg with Stockton on something like 55 FG%, 61 TS% and without Stockton, was a bit below 25 ppg, I believe 24.8 on 52 FG%/58 TS%, iirc and with 3.7 TO, don't remember how many turnovers he averaged with Stockton, but his season average for all of the games was 3.0 turnovers so significantly different.

And that's an 18 game sample size, pretty significant for such a noticeable difference in numbers. Not to mention that Stockton was just a 29 mpg player at that point. The numbers are still very impressive, and I'm not saying he wouldn't have been a great player regardless, because that's ridiculous, but I've really changed my mind a lot on Malone. I had a different view of him as a kid, thought he was better than he really was, but watching the games and taking into account situations rather than focusing too much on just production and status in the league, he clearly wasn't as good as Kobe or Barkley.

I believe in Malone's last season in Utah, he was assisted on 80% of his baskets, unfortunately, I can't find numbers for anything earlier than that. Will check 82games to verify that number when I'm on my home computer Monday, for some odd reason, the stats for 2002-2003 don't show on this one. I expected that he was assisted on a high number of baskets, but 80% shocked me. Even Amare in Phoenix, wasn't getting assisted on anywhere near that many baskets.

I also don't give him as much of a boost as I used to in my rankings due to his incredible longevity. I focus more on prime as well as the most important factor in my rankings. That, and the ability to perform in the playoffs, and the 2 go hand in hand in my opinion.
I agree with pretty much everything u said. From watching Malone games he seems like a very-rich man's Boozer in the sense that he can accumulate great stat-lines over the course of the game, but I never get the sense that he can just take over and win games damn near at willl ala Bryant. He seems to be more of a amazing finisher than shot-creator/play-maker and the latter are undoubtedly more valuable imo.

However, I can still see a somewhat decent argument for him based on his vastly superior rebounding, his superior defensive impact (Malone wasn't DPOY calibir, but as a big he probably had more impact than Kobe on a game-to-game basis), and his superior efficiency (in the RS anyway...)

[ShaqAttack3234]

I agree with pretty much everything u said. From watching Malone games he seems like a very-rich man's Boozer in the sense that he can accumulate great stat-lines over the course of the game, but I never get the sense that he can just take over and win games damn near at willl ala Bryant. He seems to be more of a amazing finisher than shot-creator/play-maker and the latter are undoubtedly more valuable imo.

However, I can still see a somewhat decent argument for him based on his vastly superior rebounding, his superior defensive impact (Malone wasn't DPOY calibir, but as a big he probably had more impact than Kobe on a game-to-game basis), and his superior efficiency (in the RS anyway...)

And that's very important, if that's what you see, then that should be the primary thing you base your judgement on, imo. Which isn't to disregard stats because I find them useful myself(certain ones such as basic box score numbers and a few logical advanced ones such as TS% and TRB% as well as defensive rating and offensive rating for teams and not individual players for the ratings).

For reference, here's Malone's 50 point game from the 2000 playoffs, and keep in mind, that at this point, Malone was more skilled than the younger version. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7_R4H7u4jU

Now look at all of the easy baskets and how often he's assisted.

That was Malone's game, leak out and catch the other team sleeping once or twice, run the floor, pick and roll, hit open mid-range shots. And it's good to be able to get those easy baskets, but because it obviously didn't translate as well to the playoffs, it's very important to me.

Obviously he could score in the post(have seen many players better at this, though and his arsenal was limited to pretty much running moves and a fadeaway) and hitting mid-range shots is a skill itself, but again, the numbers, particularly the efficiency, benefited greatly from the situation, and for the late 80's/early 90's numbers, the era as well.

I give him credit for his passing, though, he was very good and really improved that aspect of his game.

As far as defense? It's a consideration, but not a huge factor for me. He was a very good post defender, and this could make an impact depending on match ups. Ironically, this, unlike Malone's offensive game, could translate better to the playoffs depending on who they were facing, well, not necessarily translate better, but be more valuable than it is during an 82 game season.

I just think that Kobe's advantage as an offensive player and his proven championship credentials are too much for Malone to overcome. With the great players, at least in the past 30 years or so, the best of the best are almost always among the true elite in the league primarily because of their offensive ability, even if they impact the game in other ways.

[Jacks3]

Pretty much. Anytime you're comparing a big whose value is 85% offense to a small...you always take the small. They just seem to have a inherent advantage on that end in terms of play-making and take-over ability similar to bigs and their rebounding and defensive impact.

[AlphaWolf24]

May 2011 ESPN 10 greatest alltime NBA player Rankings as voted by fans

1.Michael Jordan
2.Wilt Chamberlain
3.Magic Johnson
4.Kareem Abdul Jabbar
5.Larry Bird
6.Bill Russell
7.Kobe Bryant
8.Oscar Robertson
9.Shaquille Oneal
10.Julius Erving

Now in my opinion Kobe Bryant has a better career and is a better basketball player then Larry Bird.....so I have no doubt about placing him in the top 5.

but at lowest he is 7th ......and I think my views reflects the majority's and is the correct answer.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Pretty much. Anytime you're comparing a big whose value is 85% offense to a small...you always take the small. They just seem to have a inherent advantage on that end in terms of play-making and take-over ability similar to bigs and their rebounding and defensive impact.

Yeah, off the top of my head, the one notable exception would be Barkley, imo. Not that I'd take him over every perimeter player, but because he's one of the 3 most double teamed players of the last 20 years or so(along with Shaq and Hakeem) and because he was so efficient, and you can see that dominance watching him, it makes his offensive impact a step above someone like Malone despite his defense. Though, I don't really group Barkley in with big men necessarily. Partially due to size, skillset and the fact that he did play a lot of small forward some seasons.

[PowerGlove]

May 2011 ESPN 10 greatest alltime NBA player Rankings as voted by fans

1.Michael Jordan
2.Wilt Chamberlain
3.Magic Johnson
4.Kareem Abdul Jabbar
5.Larry Bird
6.Bill Russell
7.Kobe Bryant
8.Oscar Robertson
9.Shaquille Oneal
10.Julius Erving

Now in my opinion Kobe Bryant has a better career and is a better basketball player then Larry Bird.....so I have no doubt about placing him in the top 5.

but at lowest he is 7th ......and I think my views reflects the majority's and is the correct answer.

Shaq at 9th?

That list isnt credible anymore.

[AlphaWolf24]

Shaq at 9th?

That list isnt credible anymore.

Irony... much?:lol

[rmt]

People are focusing too much on accolades/accomplishments/rings.

Kobe should only be on your top 10 list if u think (at his prime) he's better at playing the game of basketball better than all but 8-9 guys...

Players indisputably ahead:
Jordan
Russ
Wilt
Kareem
Magic
Bird
Hakeem
Shaq

Arguable imo:
Duncan
KG
Malone
Barkley
LeBron

So yeah, he's anywhere from 10-15.

If you're going by prime/peak, I don't see how Duncan's in that list. 2003 Duncan > any Kobe. Duncan's performance in playoffs and especially Finals > Kobe's. Duncan's impact (especially defensively) > Kobe's.

And if by accolades/accomplishments/rings (as the man), Duncan's career is every bit as good, if not better than, Kobe's. This might change if Kobe wins more rings, but the prime/peak won't as Kobe is in decline.

[Jacks3]

Meh. I think prime/peak KG/Duncan are essentially even,and I certainly don't see prime KG as being indisputably better than prime Kobe. I was never that impressed with Duncan tbh. I don't think he's indisputably better at all. I mean, Kobe has outplayed him in several different playoff series. 01/02/08....I can't imagine that happening against guys like prime Magic/Bird/Jordan/Hakeem...

And no, 03 Duncan is not indisputably better than 06 Kobe.

His playoff run is certainly better, but that doesn't make him the undisputed better player. 06-08 Kobe is pretty much equal with 03-05 Duncan as a player....

Kobe's offensive impact/clutch-play/take-over ability>>>Duncan's

Duncan's defense/rebounding>>>Kobe's

Who you take is simply a matter of preference if u ask me.

[Jacks3]

Yeah, off the top of my head, the one notable exception would be Barkley, imo. Not that I'd take him over every perimeter player, but because he's one of the 3 most double teamed players of the last 20 years or so(along with Shaq and Hakeem) and because he was so efficient, and you can see that dominance watching him, it makes his offensive impact a step above someone like Malone despite his defense. Though, I don't really group Barkley in with big men necessarily. Partially due to size, skillset and the fact that he did play a lot of small forward some seasons.
I'm not sure if Barkely's impact was quite as big as the stats suggest. Every time I watch him play he seems to hold the ball way too long and he doesn't have the greatest skill-set in terms of his mid-range and deeper shooting ability. I dunno. He doesn't seem to have the constraints of the other bigs, but I'm still not sure he's dynamic enough to take over the elite wings when his defensive impact is clearly a negative...at a very important defensive position.

[DMAVS41]

The way the rankings are done here...Kobe is without a doubt a top 10 player of all time.

I do personally feel that Shaq/Duncan/Hakeem were higher impact players than Kobe....so really nothing he does can vault him over them for me. But that is just my opinion.

I don't think its crazy to rank Kobe over a couple of guys and put him 8th...I just disagree.

I have Kobe at 10th all time and he's a lock to stay there for a long long time.....

[rmt]

LeBron has the better one-yr peak. Not sure if that makes him the better basketball player because Kobe is better in the playoffs imo, and his skill-set seems like it would be more beneficial to a wider variety of teams and players. He's just so much better as a off-the ball player and shooter. I also think intangibles have to be included when judging how good a player is, and Kobe is undoubtedly more much competitive and hard-working....


And no, 03 Duncan is not indisputably better than 06 Kobe.

His playoff run is certainly better, but that doesn't make him the undisputed better player. 06-08 Kobe is pretty much equal with 03-05 Duncan as a player....

Taking into account your criteria when comparing Kobe to Lebron, I think that TD taking a relatively weak cast to the championship makes him a better player (in 03) than Kobe bowing out in the first round while taking only 3 shots in the 2nd half of a game 7 (in '06).


Kobe's offensive impact/clutch-play/take-over ability>>>Duncan's

Duncan's defense/rebounding>>>Kobe's

Duncan's defense/rebounding - very consistent/constant - whether RS or playoffs/Finals.

Kobe's offensive impact/clutch-play/take-over ability - [not consistent and not >>> Duncan's] in NBA Finals (you know, when it matters the most).

[All Net]

Shaq at 9th?

That list isnt credible anymore.
Shaq's peak is easily top 4-5 but it depends how you value it as a career. Him falling off later in his career and his injury problems it doesn't surprise me to see people put him lower than expected.

[Jacks3]

Taking into account your criteria when comparing Kobe to Lebron, I think that TD taking a relatively weak cast to the championship makes him a better player (in 03) than Kobe bowing out in the first round while taking only 3 shots in the 2nd half of a game 7 (in '06).

I'm not interested in team accomplishments. So yeah, he was most certainly not indisputably better individually. Oh, and Bron has a better 1-yr peak than both of them.


Duncan's defense/rebounding - very consistent/constant - whether RS or playoffs/Finals.
Yeah, his D was sure consistent when Amare was dropping 37 PPG on his ass.
:lol

Kobe's offensive impact/clutch-play/take-over ability - [not consistent and not >>> Duncan's] in NBA Finals (you know, when it matters the most).
Kobe's offensive impact/clutch-play is consistent and is considerably better than Duncan's. It's not even close. And, you know, there's far more to comparing players than their performances in the NBA Finals. Try again.

[oolalaa]

Kobe's offensive impact/clutch-play is consistent and is considerably better than Duncan's. It's not even close. And, you know, there's far more to comparing players than their performances in the NBA Finals. Try again.

kobe is overrated 'in the clutch'. he essentially turns the last 5 mins of a close game into a shot jacking, hero ball fest which sometimes works but a lot of the time doesn't. and dont get me started on the amount of game winning/tying shots he has missed (yet the media still loves to claim he's on jordans level in the clutch :facepalm )

i certainly wouldn't call duncan great 'in the clutch' but to say that it's not even close is just wrong.

and you said "Kobe has outplayed him in several different playoff series". how do you outplay someone who plays a completely different position to you anyway?

[Odinn]

and you said "Kobe has outplayed him in several different playoff series". how do you outplay someone who plays a completely different position to you anyway?
That Kobe-tard always claims Kobe outperformed Duncan in the playoffs and sees this;


Kobe has been better in pretty much every series they've played. 01,02,04,08....
1999;
Duncan - 29/11/3/2
Kobe - 21/6/4/2
Duncan. Check.

2001;
Duncan - 23/12/4/4
Kobe - 33/7/7/1.5
Kobe. Check.

2002;
Duncan - 29/17/5/3
Kobe - 26/5/5/1
Duncan. Check.

2003;
Duncan - 28/12/5/1
Kobe - 32/5/4/1
Duncan. Check.

2004;
Duncan - 21/14/3/2
Kobe - 26/6/6/1
Kobe. Really close but the team which won the series was Lakers.

2008;
Duncan - 22/17/5/2
Kobe - 29/6/4/2
Kobe. Check.

Duncan outperformed Kobe 3 times and Kobe outperformed Duncan 3 times.
3-3.

They played 30 games against each other in playoffs and;

Duncan
25.2 points
12.9 rebounds
4.2 asissts
0.9 steals
2.3 blocks
3.7 turnovers
0.473 fg%
0.707 ft%
28.8 eff

Kobe
28.2 points
5.9 rebounds
4.7 asissts
1.4 steals
0.3 blocks
3.3 turnovers
0.473 fg%
0.733 ft%
23.1 eff

So, the bolded part is not true.
Then shuts up.

[oolalaa]

That Kobe-tard always claims Kobe outperformed Duncan in the playoffs and sees this;

Then shuts up.

:roll: and i'm sure he never mentions that duncan had shaq to deal with the majority of their series. he had to defend the greatest low post scorer of all time at one end and try and score on his 320 pound ass on the other...for 40+ minutes a game!

kobetards are funny :oldlol:

[ShaqAttack3234]

I'm not sure if Barkely's impact was quite as big as the stats suggest. Every time I watch him play he seems to hold the ball way too long and he doesn't have the greatest skill-set in terms of his mid-range and deeper shooting ability. I dunno. He doesn't seem to have the constraints of the other bigs, but I'm still not sure he's dynamic enough to take over the elite wings when his defensive impact is clearly a negative...at a very important defensive position.

He did hold the ball too long, and sometimes when he was doubled, he could get into trouble because he couldn't always see over the defense and would leave his feet for cross court passes. These passes could work out, but could also lead to turnovers. But for the most part, he was a very good passer and a really dominant offensive player from 15 feet and in, capable around the 18-20 foot range and dangerous in the open court. Obviously he was a great rebounder as well. But he did have his flaws as we've mentioned, and he had a habit of shooting more 3s than he should've given his limitations from tht range. It took him a while to shoot the 3, and it could be a pretty ugly shot.

I rank him pretty high, though. The only true prime year he had where he had a cast capable of winning a title was '93, and even then, Barkley leading them to 62 wins and giving a better Bulls team a run for their money impressed me because KJ was not at his usual level that season and missed so much time.

By '94, injuries started making him a less effective player and KJ was often injured when he was there as well, so I view his prime as being wasted in terms of championship opportunities, kind of like KG, who didn't really a chance before he got to Boston.


That Kobe-tard always claims Kobe outperformed Duncan in the playoffs and sees this;

Then shuts up.

Kobe was without a doubt the best player in the 2001, 2002 and 2008 Laker/Spurs series.

[Odinn]

Kobe was without a doubt the best player in the 2001, 2002 and 2008 Laker/Spurs series.
2001 and 2008. Yes.
2002, nope.

2002;
Duncan - 29ppg/17rpg/5apg/3bpg/42.5%fg/34.6eff
Kobe - 26ppg/5rpg/5apg/1spg/45.4fg/19.8eff
Duncan. Check.

Duncan's matchup was Shaq in that series coz of Admiral's injury.

Without a doubt, Duncan was the better one in the 2002 Lakers-Series series.

[rmt]

I'm not interested in team accomplishments. So yeah, he was most certainly not indisputably better individually. Oh, and Bron has a better 1-yr peak than both of them.

See how that works. Use certain criteria (vs Lebron) when it suits Kobe but don't use the same criteria to judge Kobe vs Duncan. Be consistent. There's a lot left in Lebron's career yet to play out. And we both know that regular season stats mean jack s**t if he doesn't perform in the playoffs/Finals.


Yeah, his D was sure consistent when Amare was dropping 37 PPG on his ass.
:lol

In case you weren't paying attention, Spurs' plan has always been to let Amare score, make Nash a shooter and shut down the 3pt line (control the shooters). Duncan's job was to anchor the defense (which he has done consistently for over a decade) and do his fair share of the scoring. That plan worked for the majority of the time (except 1 year) and isn't that what counts - to do what it takes to win (even it means being dunked on, watching Amare do his pushups, sacrifice for the team) and not taking it personally by not shooting (game 7) or playing hero-ball.


Kobe's offensive impact/clutch-play is consistent and is considerably better than Duncan's. It's not even close. And, you know, there's far more to comparing players than their performances in the NBA Finals. Try again.

The words "not even close" are so over-used and such an exaggeration. I'd like to know what is more important in judging players (especially at the highest level) than performances in NBA Finals - regular season, rest of the playoffs or performing on the biggest stage when it counts/matters most.

[ShaqAttack3234]

2001 and 2008. Yes.
2002, nope.

2002;
Duncan - 29ppg/17rpg/5apg/3bpg/42.5%fg/34.6eff
Kobe - 26ppg/5rpg/5apg/1spg/45.4fg/19.8eff
Duncan. Check.

Duncan's matchup was Shaq in that series coz of Admiral's injury.

Nobody came away from that series thinking that Tim played better than Kobe. Tim didn't have a great series, but Kobe did.

The 42.5% shooting reflects that somewhat in those stats you posted, but also the 4.6 turnovers.

Kobe dominated the 4th quarters, while Duncan was criticized for poor 4th quarter player. There's no doubt that Kobe was the best player in that series.

I don't blame Duncan for the loss. That was the worst cast of his career and of course, Robinson was injured. But he did not outplay Kobe, that's ridiculous.

And I think that Duncan was better than Kobe that season, but not in that series.

[Odinn]

Nobody came away from that series thinking that Tim played better than Kobe. Tim didn't have a great series, but Kobe did.

The 42.5% shooting reflects that somewhat in those stats you posted, but also the 4.6 turnovers.

Kobe dominated the 4th quarters, while Duncan was criticized for poor 4th quarter player. There's no doubt that Kobe was the best player in that series.

I don't blame Duncan for the loss. That was the worst cast of his career and of course, Robinson was injured. But he did not outplay Kobe, that's ridiculous.

And I think that Duncan was better than Kobe that season, but not in that series.
The 42.5% shooting really bad. Yes. But no. Kobe wasn't the best player in that series. 42.5% not good but 45.4% not good also. More points, more asissts, much more rebounds, more d and his matchup was Shaq.
34.6 eff vs. 19.6 eff... Almost doubled. If you say 19.6 >> 34.6 coz of only 4th quarters...:facepalm

Your argument for great series, 26/5/5/45.4% ??:facepalm

[ShaqAttack3234]

The 42.5% shooting really bad. Yes. But no. Kobe wasn't the best player in that series. 42.5% not good but 45.4% not good also. More points, more asissts, much more rebounds, more d and his matchup was Shaq.
34.6 eff vs. 19.6 eff... Almost doubled. If you say 19.6 >> 34.6 coz of only 4th quarters...:facepalm

Your argument for great series, 26/5/5/45.4% ??:facepalm

Did you even watch the series? And I don't give a **** about "eff".

[Odinn]

Did you even watch the series? And I don't give a **** about "eff".
I watched. Duncan was like LeBron in 2009 Cavs-Magic series.

If you don't care about eff, go and calculate PER. I don't know a player who named as a best player in a playoff series, and almost got doubled in eff or per.:applause:

Actually, I wouldn't be in this discussion with you. It seems to me, you always try to discredit Duncan in Kobe-Shaq threads.

Edit: Another advanced stat;
Duncan's GmSc average for that series 23.3.
Kobe's GmSc average for that series 16.4.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I watched. Duncan was like LeBron in 2009 Cavs-Magic series.

If you don't care about eff, go and calculate PER. I don't know a player who named as a best player in a playoff series, and almost got doubled in eff or per.:applause:

Actually, I wouldn't be in this discussion with you. It seems to me, you always try to discredit Duncan in Kobe-Shaq threads.

I don't rate players by Eff or PER. :roll: at Duncan being like Lebron in the '09 ECF in that series.

I have nothing against Duncan, I like him a lot actually. Some of the games that I post most often on youtube are some of Duncan's best games from his prime.

What does bother me is ignorance. And clearly, what you are not qualified to discuss this series since you know very little about it.

[Odinn]

I don't rate players by Eff or PER. :roll: at Duncan being like Lebron in the '09 ECF in that series.

I have nothing against Duncan, I like him a lot actually. Some of the games that I post most often on youtube are some of Duncan's best games from his prime.

What does bother me is ignorance. And clearly, what you are not qualified to discuss this series since you know very little about it.
What's wrong with that? He was the only serious weapon SAS got.

The ignorance; if Kobe had a similar series against Duncan, much worse supporting cast and better numbers, you'd say Kobe was the better one...

[ShaqAttack3234]

What's wrong with that? He was the only serious weapon SAS got.

The ignorance; if Kobe had a similar series against Duncan, much worse supporting cast and better numbers, you'd say Kobe was the better one...

Duncan didn't play anywhere near as well in that series as Lebron did in the 2009 ECF.

And why would I rank Duncan ahead of Kobe every season from 2000-2005 if I have some agenda to make Kobe look better and Duncan look worse?

[BEAST Griffin]

I love how people talk about these rankings as though they're fact and get butt hurt about it.

:oldlol:

I rank players based on impact and I don't think Kobe has top 10 impact.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

May 2011 ESPN 10 greatest alltime NBA player Rankings as voted by fans

1.Michael Jordan
2.Wilt Chamberlain
3.Magic Johnson
4.Kareem Abdul Jabbar
5.Larry Bird
6.Bill Russell
7.Kobe Bryant
8.Oscar Robertson
9.Shaquille Oneal
10.Julius Erving

Now in my opinion Kobe Bryant has a better career and is a better basketball player then Larry Bird.....so I have no doubt about placing him in the top 5.

but at lowest he is 7th ......and I think my views reflects the majority's and is the correct answer.
Oscar and Dr J?

Now you know no one will take you seriously.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

I watched. Duncan was like LeBron in 2009 Cavs-Magic series.

If you don't care about eff, go and calculate PER. I don't know a player who named as a best player in a playoff series, and almost got doubled in eff or per.:applause:

Actually, I wouldn't be in this discussion with you. It seems to me, you always try to discredit Duncan in Kobe-Shaq threads.

Edit: Another advanced stat;
Duncan's GmSc average for that series 23.3.
Kobe's GmSc average for that series 16.4.
Dude, shut up. ShaqAttack is one of the most unbiased posters here.

[Big#50]

I'm not interested in team accomplishments. So yeah, he was most certainly not indisputably better individually. Oh, and Bron has a better 1-yr peak than both of them.


Yeah, his D was sure consistent when Amare was dropping 37 PPG on his ass.
:lol

Kobe's offensive impact/clutch-play is consistent and is considerably better than Duncan's. It's not even close. And, you know, there's far more to comparing players than their performances in the NBA Finals. Try again.
Because Tim was the only that guarded Amare, right. Btw the Spurs only played D in the closing minutes in every suns series. They decided to beat the Suns at their own game, which was offense. But of course you didn't watch. Nash was the one causing all the chaos. Amare was just the recipient of all his great passes. Amare had 38 points in game six of the 2007 series and still lost. Duncan had like 24/13/9 one block away from a trip dub. You're a ****ing bum.

[Big#50]

Nobody came away from that series thinking that Tim played better than Kobe. Tim didn't have a great series, but Kobe did.

The 42.5% shooting reflects that somewhat in those stats you posted, but also the 4.6 turnovers.

Kobe dominated the 4th quarters, while Duncan was criticized for poor 4th quarter player. There's no doubt that Kobe was the best player in that series.

I don't blame Duncan for the loss. That was the worst cast of his career and of course, Robinson was injured. But he did not outplay Kobe, that's ridiculous.

And I think that Duncan was better than Kobe that season, but not in that series.
It is hard to perform in the fourth when for three quarters you're a one man team. Shaq was fresh come fourth quarter time, Tim was fatigued as shit. Even a Shaq homer like yourself knows this. Lakers played great team d on Tim that year. 34/25 and still wasn't really competitive in game five. That should tell you something.

[ShaqAttack3234]

It is hard to perform in the fourth when for three quarters you're a one man team. Shaq was fresh come fourth quarter time, Tim was fatigued as shit. Even a Shaq homer like yourself knows this. Lakers played great team d on Tim that year. 34/25 and still wasn't really competitive in game five. That should tell you something.

First of all, where did I compare Duncan to Shaq?

Outside of game 1, Shaq played like crap in the 4th quarters too offensively, though both played good defense on each other. Shaq wasn't fresh in the series either, he had multiple injuries, and his explosiveness was clearly limited until several games into the Sacramento series, iirc.

And game 5 was competitive, the Lakers won by 6 and it was a 1 point game entering the 4th, but Kobe had another big 4th quarter.

Game 4 was also competitive, the Lakers won by 2 on a Kobe gamewinner, and the Spurs actually led by 8 entering the 4th quarter.

Game 3 was a 3 point game entering the 4th quarter, but Kobe went 5/5 in the quarter.

Game 2 was a 3 point Spurs win

Game 1 was a 6 point LA win and the Spurs led by 4 entering the 4th quarter.

Kobe was better than both Shaq and Tim in the 2001 and 2002 Lakers/Spurs series, I thought both Shaq and Tim were better players at the time, but they did not have better series.

[gengiskhan]

Oscar and Dr J?

Now you know no one will take you seriously.

Kobe has not business being Top 10 GOATs

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Russell
7. Hakeem
8. Shaq
9. Oscar
10.Duncan
11.Charles
12. West or Kobe

Kobe's best spot is 12th.

[Jacks3]

kobe is overrated 'in the clutch'. he essentially turns the last 5 mins of a close game into a shot jacking, hero ball fest which sometimes works but a lot of the time doesn't. and dont get me started on the amount of game winning/tying shots he has missed (yet the media still loves to claim he's on jordans level in the clutch :facepalm )
And yet his his clutch-time numbers in the PS and RS are still far better than Duncan's. :oldlol:

i certainly wouldn't call duncan great 'in the clutch' but to say that it's not even close is just wrong.
Yeah, he isn't close at all. Not remotely.


and you said "Kobe has outplayed him in several different playoff series". how do you outplay someone who plays a completely different position to you anyway?
Who cares if he plays a different postion? Kobe was still the best individual player in 3 series against prime Duncan.

[Jacks3]

That Kobe-tard always claims Kobe outperformed Duncan in the playoffs and sees this

Then shuts up.
Angry because Bryant has outplayed your boy in 3 different series in his prime?

Retard. :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

See how that works. Use certain criteria (vs Lebron) when it suits Kobe but don't use the same criteria to judge Kobe vs Duncan. Be consistent. There's a lot left in Lebron's career yet to play out. And we both know that regular season stats mean jack s**t if he doesn't perform in the playoffs/Finals.
I'm being perfectly consistent. Read again.



In case you weren't paying attention, Spurs' plan has always been to let Amare score, make Nash a shooter and shut down the 3pt line (control the shooters)..
Yeah, I'm sure they wanted Amare dropping 37 PPG. :oldlol:

lol @ that lame ass excuse. Watch the series again. Duncan was helpless.







The words "not even close" are so over-used and such an exaggeration. I'd like to know what is more important in judging players (especially at the highest level) than performances in NBA Finals - regular season, rest of the playoffs or performing on the biggest stage when it counts/matters most.
NBA Finals performances are just one of many things used to judge players.

Sorry.

And in this case, in terms of offensive ability and take-over ability, Duncan and Kobe are indeed not close. No exaggeration at all.

[Jacks3]

You're a ****ing bum.
:oldlol:

37 PPG on that overrated ass. Timmy was shitted on. :oldlol:

[Odinn]

Angry because Bryant has outplayed your boy in 3 different series in his prime?

Retard. :oldlol:
3-3...

I don't ignore that but you do. Who's the retard?..:applause:

[G-Funk]

Kobe has not business being Top 10 GOATs

1. MJ
2. Kareem
3. Wilt
4. Magic
5. Bird
6. Russell
7. Hakeem
8. Shaq
9. Oscar
10.Duncan
11.Charles
12. West or Kobe

Kobe's best spot is 12th.

West,Oscar and specially Charles(11th) ahead of Kobe?...(Pause).....:oldlol: :roll: :roll:

[Doranku]

3-3...

I don't ignore that but you do. Who's the retard?..:applause:

It's arguable at best that Duncan outplayed Kobe in the '03-'04 series. Duncan was turning the ball over left and right in that series and played like dog shit after taking a 2-0 series lead.

And are you considering '99 even close to Kobe's prime? Come on, now. Prime vs. prime, Duncan has only been clear-cut better against Kobe in the '02-'03 series. That's it.

[Odinn]

It's arguable at best that Duncan outplayed Kobe in the '03-'04 series. Duncan was turning the ball over left and right in that series and played like dog shit after taking a 2-0 series lead.

And are you considering '99 even close to Kobe's prime? Come on, now. Prime vs. prime, Duncan has only been clear-cut better against Kobe in the '02-'03 series. That's it.
2001 and 2008, OK.
2003, Duncan.
2004, both of them didn't play great. I said Kobe coz of Lakers victory. (and Duncan the responsible one from defeat, yes)
Duncan's mathcup was Shaq in 2002 and 2004. Let's do not forget.
In 2002, Kobe was a monster in 4th quarters, that's right. But in general, Duncan was the better one in that series.

Clear-cut results, 2-1 Kobe but Kobe wasn't the superior/better one in total. They seems equal. That's what I say.
If we exclude the 1999 playoffs, 26 Games against each other in the playoffs;

Duncan
24.6 points
13.2 rebounds
4.3 asissts
0.9 steals
2.3 blocks
3.6 turnovers
0.467 fg%
0.689 ft%
28.6 eff

Kobe
29.3 points
5.8 rebounds
4.9 asissts
1.3 steals
0.2 blocks
3.1 turnovers
0.475 fg%
0.739 ft%
24.1 eff

[The Iron Fist]

2001 and 2008, OK.
2003, Duncan.
2004, both of them didn't play great. I said Kobe coz of Lakers victory. (and Duncan the responsible one from defeat, yes)
Duncan's mathcup was Shaq in 2002 and 2004. Let's do not forget.
In 2002, Kobe was a monster in 4th quarters, that's right. But in general, Duncan was the better one in that series.

Clear-cut results, 2-1 Kobe but Kobe wasn't the superior/better one in total. They seems equal. That's what I say.
If we exclude the 1999 playoffs, 26 Games against each other in the playoffs;

Duncan
24.6 points
13.2 rebounds
4.3 asissts
0.9 steals
2.3 blocks
3.6 turnovers
0.467 fg%
0.689 ft%
28.6 eff

Kobe
29.3 points
5.8 rebounds
4.9 asissts
1.3 steals
0.2 blocks
3.1 turnovers
0.475 fg%
0.739 ft%
24.1 eff

Thats awful for a PF/C. AWFUL.

[G-Funk]

Thats awful for a PF/C. AWFUL.


Agree, that's horrible for a big! What's the average for PF's and Centers

[Odinn]

Thats awful for a PF/C. AWFUL.
I can agree.

But also;
-2001 Lakers-Spurs series Duncan's fg% was 0.478.
-2003 Lakers-Spurs series Duncan's fg% was 0.529.

-2008 Lakers-Spurs series Duncan's fg% was 0.426.
His mathcups were Gasol, Odom or Bynum. I can't say Duncan's mathcups exact fg% because I don't know exact minutes of -three of them- guarded by Duncan.

-2002 Lakers-Spurs series Duncan's fg% was 0.425.
-2004 Lakers-Spurs series Duncan's fg% was 0.473.
Combined 0.446
His main matchup was Shaq for these 2 series and Shaq's fg% was 0.536 combined. A player who can lowered Shaq's fg% by 6%. That's impressive.
Their fg% dropped 6% both of them from their normal fg%.

Duncan's matchups were more tougher, more competitive.

For example, 2001 series were the best series Kobe ever had against SAS and Derek Anderson(starting 5 sg and only Spur who averaged 15ppg+ along side Duncan) was injured, didn't play in that series.

[BlackJoker23]

:oldlol:

37 PPG on that overrated ass. Timmy was shitted on. :oldlol:
this. duncan was destroyed. big#50 is just an idiotic duncan stan. amare was literally scoring on duncan at will. im sure you just "let" someone average 37 ppg on you. amare didnt even need nash that series. he was scoring on isos. spurs fans are pathetic with their excuses.

[AlphaWolf24]

Shaq's peak is easily top 4-5 but it depends how you value it as a career. Him falling off later in his career and his injury problems it doesn't surprise me to see people put him lower than expected.


:applause:

Without Kobe his career is a "Big Disappointment"....many , many , many great teams he played on and won 1 title watching Wade get 27 FT attempts...

[RRR3]

:applause:

Without Kobe his career is a "Big Disappointment"....many , many , many great teams he played on and won 1 title watching Wade get 27 FT attempts...
How many rings does Kobe have without Shaq? 2? And those are thanks in large part to Gasol.

[G-Funk]

How many rings does Kobe have without Shaq? 2? And those are thanks in large part to Gasol.
How many rings rings does T-mac have? Zero

[Doranku]

How many rings does Kobe have without Shaq? 2? And those are thanks in large part to Gasol.


You act like that's a bad thing. :roll: Look at how many great players have went their entire career without winning a single ring. Now you're trying to bash Kobe for winning two IN ADDITION to winning three more as a second option?

Unreal. :oldlol:

[RRR3]

You act like that's a bad thing. :roll: Look at how many great players have went their entire career without winning a single ring. Now you're trying to bash Kobe for winning two IN ADDITION to winning three more as a second option?

Unreal. :oldlol:

I'm not bashing him at all you idiot, I was just laughing at the fact that Alphawolf was bashing Shaq for winning three rings with Kobe, when it goes the same way for Kobe (no Shaq=Kobe 2 rings, No Kobe=Shaq 1 ring).

[Big#50]

this. duncan was destroyed. big#50 is just an idiotic duncan stan. amare was literally scoring on duncan at will. im sure you just "let" someone average 37 ppg on you. amare didnt even need nash that series. he was scoring on isos. spurs fans are pathetic with their excuses.
Spurs won that series 4-1. I think their game plan worked to perfection. Beat the Suns at their own game. Good for Amare for going off. I know how the series played out. While Amare was busy taking 26 shots a game the Suns shooters were left standing around. No excuses. What excuses did I make?

[The-Legend-24]

:applause:

Without Kobe his career is a "Big Disappointment"....many , many , many great teams he played on and won 1 title watching Wade get 27 FT attempts...
This. Shaq played on quality teams that were championship contenders, but fell short, it took for Kobe to reach superstar status for him to be able to win. Once without kobe he wins only 1 watching wade get 30 fts a game. :oldlol:
While Kobe without shaq reaches 3 straight finals, wins back-to-back with a soft euro as his second option. :applause:






How many rings does Kobe have without Shaq? 2? And those are thanks in large part to Gasol.
Kobe needed a good second option like every player does. Where was gasol without kobe? He couldn't even win a PO game. GTFO T-Mac couldn't even get out the first round with YAO. :facepalm

[Big#50]

This. Shaq played on quality teams that were championship contenders, but fell short, it took for Kobe to reach superstar status for him to be able to win. Once without kobe he wins only 1 watching wade get 30 fts a game. :oldlol:
While Kobe without shaq reaches 3 straight finals, wins back-to-back with a soft euro as his second option. :applause:






Kobe needed a good second option like every player does. Where was gasol without kobe? He couldn't even win a PO game. GTFO T-Mac couldn't even get out the first round with YAO. :facepalm
That soft Euro was the reason the Lakers won game 7 in the 2010 finals. Remember Kobe choked in that game.

[Jacks3]

Just like Duncan choked in Game 7 in 05.

10-26 from a big is awful.

Funny how nobody ever talks about it.

[Maniak]

fool...99% of the basketball community have him in the Top 5....


:roll:

[ShaqAttack3234]

This. Shaq played on quality teams that were championship contenders, but fell short, it took for Kobe to reach superstar status for him to be able to win. Once without kobe he wins only 1 watching wade get 30 fts a game. :oldlol:
While Kobe without shaq reaches 3 straight finals, wins back-to-back with a soft euro as his second option. :applause:

:oldlol: at this kid. How good do you think Kobe was in 2000? He was a borderline top 10 player at the time, just like Gasol in 2009 and 2010. Except, the Lakers outside of Shaq and Kobe were worse than the Lakers outside of Kobe/Gasol.

Kobe became a top 3-5 player in 2001 and 2002, maybe top 2 in 2001 considering how great his playoff run was, but he was not at that level in 2000.

[Bring-Your-Js]

:oldlol: at this kid. How good do you think Kobe was in 2000? He was a borderline top 10 player at the time, just like Gasol in 2009 and 2010. Except, the Lakers outside of Shaq and Kobe were worse than the Lakers outside of Kobe/Gasol.

Kobe became a top 3-5 player in 2001 and 2002, maybe top 2 in 2001 considering how great his playoff run was, but he was not at that level in 2000.

Shaq should be getting a lot more credit for that 2000 title than he is.

Most people don't buy the dramatic change Kobe made from 2000 to 2001. Jesus, you didn't even have to watching games then (and most of these kids werent) to figure that out.

[rmt]

Just like Duncan choked in Game 7 in 05.

10-26 from a big is awful.

Funny how nobody ever talks about it.

Maybe you should watch the game instead of looking at stats. The players and coaches disagree with you:


With his unique multidimensional talent, Duncan depleted and dissected the Pistons, collecting 25 points and 11 rebounds. He was the fulcrum of virtually every key play down the stretch.

"His complete game is so sound, so fundamnetal, so unnoticed at times, because if he didn't score, people think, 'Well, he didn't do anything,'" Spurs coach Gregg Popovich said. "But he was incredible and he was the force that got it done for us."

"You follow your leader," Spurs guard Tony Parker said. "Timmy is the leader of the team, and he just carried us tonight."

"He put his team on his shoulders and carried them to a championship," Pistons center Ben Wallace said. "That's what the great players do."

"You could tell when he caught the ball, how much more physical he was, getting in position and bumping and grinding and getting shots and making sure he got toward the rim, so that when people came at him he was in good position to open up a teammate," Popovich said.

"A lot of the shots they made, open shots, came as a result of us having a hard time guarding him," Brown said. "That's why he's such a great player."

Brown said. "If you don't have your big people with the ability to play aggressively on Duncan, you've got no shot."

[Jacks3]

I don't care about those quotes.

Duncan was garbage in that game. 10-26 from a post-up player? 26 shots to score 25 pts? LOL

GTFO out of here with your excuses.

[rmt]

I don't care about those quotes.

Duncan was garbage in that game. 10-26 from a post-up player? 26 shots to score 25 pts? LOL

GTFO out of here with your excuses.

Guess you'd rather look at stats from a box score than watch the game or listen to the players and coaches of both teams.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Guess you'd rather look at stats from a box score than watch the game or listen to the players and coaches of both teams.
Why are you taking that guy seriously? And you are pretty much right. He said that Lebron was better in the finals than Wade was in the ECF, guess why? Boxscores/Stats.

Now I don't know what your view is on the Lebron-Wade stance but that Jacks3 guy is an idiot and that is all I am trying to say.

[Odinn]

I don't care about those quotes.

Duncan was garbage in that game. 10-26 from a post-up player? 26 shots to score 25 pts? LOL

GTFO out of here with your excuses.


Duncan carried his team for some serious minutes and thanks to that minutes, Spurs won the title. And in 2010 Finals Game 7, Kobe was carried by his teammates for almost entire game.

2005 Finals Game 7 - Duncan's performance > 2010 Finals Game 7 - Kobe's performance.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5Tv1mlM8fA
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tfaxusuEIcI

:facepalm :facepalm

[Anaximandro1]

Just like Duncan choked in Game 7 in 05.

10-26 from a big is awful.

Funny how nobody ever talks about it.

2005 NBA Finals Game 7 Highlights and Analysis
(http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o5Tv1mlM8fA)


With the Spurs trailing the Pistons by 9 points (48-39) with 7 1/2 minutes left in the third,Duncan took over the game.He scored 17 points,grabbed 6 rebounds and blocked 2 shots in the final 19 minutes of G7.

In the fourth,Pistons double teamed Duncan leaving Horry,Bowen and Manu open to seal the deal.Duncan's 2nd half performance in G7 was one of the best ever.


Now look at this (Duncan = Wallace + Wallace)


2005 NBA Finals

Duncan 20.6 pts (42%),14.1 rb,2.1 as,2.1 blk

Sheed 10.9 pts (43%),5.6 rb,1.9 as,2.4 blk

Big Ben 10.7 pts,10.3 rb,1.0 as,3 blk


Tell me.What happened in 2004? :oldlol:

[Big#50]

Guess you'd rather look at stats from a box score than watch the game or listen to the players and coaches of both teams.
Put him ignore. Stop quoting the bum. I'm tired of seeing his stupid happy face after every post. I think he believes he is Kobe.

[Jacks3]

Guess you'd rather look at stats from a box score than watch the game or listen to the players and coaches of both teams.
Yeah, I watched the game multiple games multiple times (you think I'm going to miss Game 7 of the Finals? :oldlol: ) and Tim was garbage.

10-26 from a big is putrid no matter how many you wanna spin it. :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

:facepalm :facepalm
No, not really. Both were pretty much garbage. Deal with it.

[Jacks3]

[







Tell me.What happened in 2004? :oldlol:
Tell me. What happened in 2001, 2002, 2004, and 2008? :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

Why are you taking that guy seriously? And you are pretty much right. He said that Lebron was better in the finals than Wade was in the ECF, guess why? Boxscores/Stats.

Now I don't know what your view is on the Lebron-Wade stance but that Jacks3 guy is an idiot and that is all I am trying to say.
Your obsession with the Wade-LeBron debate is ridiculous. Just face it: Wade will never be better than LeBron. Your boy is a side-kick. Moron.

:oldlol:

[Jacks3]

Put him ignore. Stop quoting the bum. I'm tired of seeing his stupid happy face after every post. I think he believes he is Kobe.
:oldlol:

[Odinn]

No, not really. Both were pretty much garbage. Deal with it.
Kobe was garbage for entire game and his teammates made the Lakers 2010 NBA Champions.
Duncan wasn't garbage for entire game and mostly Duncan (despite awful fg%) made the Spurs 2005 NBA Champions.

Go and watch games. Then deal with it.

[NumberSix]

Koe's definitely GOAT .. no one else even close.
Well, I've never thought of it like that. You have opened my eyes.

[Heat1011]

Kobe is most likely outta the top 30 at this point, after another epic choke job! Lawl!

Kobe doesn't sniff the top 20 at all, due to this man! This may surprise many of you during this post season, but Wade has been the anchor to Miami's defense over the past couple of years, and is versatile playing many positions. Amazing that with the lack of good defensive players around Wade, the Heat were still a Top 5 defense over the past 2 years with Wade as the Anchor.

And here's an article showing just how versatile Wade is , covering everyone and anyone on the bulls in that series

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/7804/dwyane-wades-unheralded-game-2-defense

Wade and LeBron is the best defending Wing duo in NBA history. Their versatility as being premium defenders is unmatched. IMO they are better than Jordan-Pippen were ( remember that Jordan-Pippen had MANY years playing together in their primes, if Wade and LeBron played together since let's say 2005, then many here would be in agreement with me).

Wade's a beast player, and will be a top 10 player once his career ends. I'm surprised how so many people put Kobe in the top 10 :facepalm The MOST OVERRATED player of all time!


http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/44448888/0000000000000000000000000000000000000.jpg

[Maniak]

Kobe is most likely outta the top 30 at this point, after another epic choke job! Lawl!

Kobe doesn't sniff the top 20 at all, due to this man! This may surprise many of you during this post season, but Wade has been the anchor to Miami's defense over the past couple of years, and is versatile playing many positions. Amazing that with the lack of good defensive players around Wade, the Heat were still a Top 5 defense over the past 2 years with Wade as the Anchor.

And here's an article showing just how versatile Wade is , covering everyone and anyone on the bulls in that series

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/7804/dwyane-wades-unheralded-game-2-defense

Wade and LeBron is the best defending Wing duo in NBA history. Their versatility as being premium defenders is unmatched. IMO they are better than Jordan-Pippen were ( remember that Jordan-Pippen had MANY years playing together in their primes, if Wade and LeBron played together since let's say 2005, then many here would be in agreement with me).

Wade's a beast player, and will be a top 10 player once his career ends. I'm surprised how so many people put Kobe in the top 10 :facepalm The MOST OVERRATED player of all time!


http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/44448888/0000000000000000000000000000000000000.jpg
This.

[ballerz]

Kobe is most likely outta the top 30 at this point, after another epic choke job! Lawl!

Kobe doesn't sniff the top 20 at all, due to this man! This may surprise many of you during this post season, but Wade has been the anchor to Miami's defense over the past couple of years, and is versatile playing many positions. Amazing that with the lack of good defensive players around Wade, the Heat were still a Top 5 defense over the past 2 years with Wade as the Anchor.

And here's an article showing just how versatile Wade is , covering everyone and anyone on the bulls in that series

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/7804/dwyane-wades-unheralded-game-2-defense

Wade and LeBron is the best defending Wing duo in NBA history. Their versatility as being premium defenders is unmatched. IMO they are better than Jordan-Pippen were ( remember that Jordan-Pippen had MANY years playing together in their primes, if Wade and LeBron played together since let's say 2005, then many here would be in agreement with me).

Wade's a beast player, and will be a top 10 player once his career ends. I'm surprised how so many people put Kobe in the top 10 :facepalm The MOST OVERRATED player of all time!


http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/44448888/0000000000000000000000000000000000000.jpg
Who are you going to rank wade over in the top ten?

[Jacks3]

Kobe was garbage for entire game and his teammates made the Lakers 2010 NBA Champions.
.
Duncan was garbage. 10-26 from a big-man? LOL

[Odinn]

Duncan was garbage. 10-26 from a big-man? LOL
You are just getting pathetic.:applause:

[L8k3r5]

Kobe is most likely outta the top 30 at this point, after another epic choke job! Lawl!

Kobe doesn't sniff the top 20 at all, due to this man! This may surprise many of you during this post season, but Wade has been the anchor to Miami's defense over the past couple of years, and is versatile playing many positions. Amazing that with the lack of good defensive players around Wade, the Heat were still a Top 5 defense over the past 2 years with Wade as the Anchor.

And here's an article showing just how versatile Wade is , covering everyone and anyone on the bulls in that series

http://espn.go.com/blog/truehoop/miamiheat/post/_/id/7804/dwyane-wades-unheralded-game-2-defense

Wade and LeBron is the best defending Wing duo in NBA history. Their versatility as being premium defenders is unmatched. IMO they are better than Jordan-Pippen were ( remember that Jordan-Pippen had MANY years playing together in their primes, if Wade and LeBron played together since let's say 2005, then many here would be in agreement with me).

Wade's a beast player, and will be a top 10 player once his career ends. I'm surprised how so many people put Kobe in the top 10 :facepalm The MOST OVERRATED player of all time!


http://i1084.photobucket.com/albums/j414/44448888/0000000000000000000000000000000000000.jpg

http://img.izismile.com/img/img4/20110322/640/troll_face_in_640_10.jpg

[L8k3r5]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm at Heat1011

[BEAST Griffin]

He's definitely top 20 on my list. But I can think of more than 10 players I would take over him on a team.

[Friday]

You'll have a hard time arguing more than 10 players being better or accomplishing more than Kobe ever did.

[D-Wade316]

You'll have a hard time arguing more than 10 players being better or accomplishing more than Kobe ever did.
Cousy
Sam Jones
Havlicek
Horry:facepalm :roll: :lol :oldlol: :cheers: :bowdown:
many more...

[Nick Young]

more like top 1 of all time