David Robinson vs. Kevin Garnett

[ThaSwagg3r]

Robinson's Resume:

2

[Odinn]

I'm not gonna say you can't go wrong either of them. Admiral.

[G-train]

David Robinson was pretty much a left handed Garnett, but taller, stronger, faster, quicker and a better leaper. He was arguably the greatest athlete to play in the NBA, plus he had all the skills Garnett had.

Garnett was an elite power forward, Robinson the centre version which made him more effective.

Further to that, Robinson was in an incredible era for centers which affected his level of accomplishments on his resume.

When I say they are similar, I mean they were both high post/driving big guys who could finish strong, both had some nice quick moves in the post and both were effective defenders. Robinson being more athletic and bigger which allowed him to play the 5 and have more effect.

[Big#50]

As a big man only Hakeem/Shaq/Duncan/KAJ are greater than DROB.
To compare him to KG is not fair to KG.

[TAC602]

Robinson.

[eliteballer]

Remind me of each other, but the thing that might push it to Garnett for me is his killer instinct, where D-Rob was notorious for being soft.

[Round Mound]

Robinson before injuries

[Smoke117]

Robinson was far far more dominant in his prime. Besides passing (which is negated by the fact that Garnett is a Forward and not a Center) Drob pretty much eclipses in him in every way possible. While KG is the pretty easily the best TRUE power forward of all time defensively David Robinson is just plain one of the 3 or 4 more most dominant defensive players EVER. As far as offense goes...KG was never especially amazing in that regard. I would never call him a dominant offensive player like Robinson was. He just plain never had the consistency as far as efficiency. The only way KG could be put over Drob is through longevity because Robinson crushes KG as far as their peaks go.

[eliteballer]

There's no such thing as a player which "crushes" peak Garnett. That's just a ridiculous statement.

[L.Kizzle]

Ralph Sampson was the first Robinson/Garnett.

[Fatal9]

KG.

[ThaSwagg3r]

KG.
Explain yourself. I want to know your thoughts on this to see if you have a reasonable point or something of that nature.

[Flamboyant]

Explain yourself. I want to know your thoughts on this to see if you have a reasonable point or something of that nature.

I'd also go with KG. Admiral was the better scorer, and because he is bigger he was more suited for center position. Garnett is the better rebounder, and a much better passer. He is also a more versatile scorer, and IMO his ring values more than two of Robinson.

[mattvNJ]

id go robinson but its close... robinson was a more effective scorer while KG was a better defender. Its very close. and i just really liked how he played.

[ThaSwagg3r]

I'd also go with KG. Admiral was the better scorer, and because he is bigger he was more suited for center position. Garnett is the better rebounder, and a much better passer. He is also a more versatile scorer, and IMO his ring values more than two of Robinson.
Actually their rebounding numbers were quite similar (both averaged 11 rpg for their career). I would probably give KG the slight edge but I certainly don't think KG was completely superior than Robinson at that aspect.

While KG was the better passer, Robinson was no slouch himself. He averaged around 3+ apg in his prime years, he even had a season where he had averaged 5 apg ('93-'94' the same season he won the scoring title).

I think what we will ultimately separate Robinson from Garnett to me was Robinson's scoring ability and Robinson's defense. Garnett did not have the same impact defensively than Robinson did. Robinson was a legit anchor defensively like a Hakeem, Russell, Zo, etc. while Garnett was more of a bigger and taller version of Scottie Pippen.

[G-train]

id go robinson but its close... robinson was a more effective scorer while KG was a better defender. Its very close. and i just really liked how he played.

Bolded just aint right. Robinson was a fantastic man to man defender, a fantastic help defender, and one of the best shot blockers ever.

[Miller for 3]

Bolded just aint right. Robinson was a fantastic man to man defender, a fantastic help defender, and one of the best shot blockers ever.

100% agreed. Him and Duncan for like those first 3 years was just an unfair frontcourt to try and score against

[BankShot]

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]
Led NBA in Blocked Shots (1991

[IGOTGAME]

Bolded just aint right. Robinson was a fantastic man to man defender, a fantastic help defender, and one of the best shot blockers ever.

I don't think the comparison is that close. I think Robinson was a better player. On defense I think Robinson just had a much bigger impact.

Look at this display of shotblocking.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-iKzLrGHU3k

[Flamboyant]

Actually their rebounding numbers were quite similar (both averaged 11 rpg for their career). I would probably give KG the slight edge but I certainly don't think KG was completely superior than Robinson at that aspect.

While KG was the better passer, Robinson was no slouch himself. He averaged around 3+ apg in his prime years, he even had a season where he had averaged 5 apg ('93-'94' the same season he won the scoring title).

I think what we will ultimately separate Robinson from Garnett to me was Robinson's scoring ability and Robinson's defense. Garnett did not have the same impact defensively than Robinson did. Robinson was a legit anchor defensively like a Hakeem, Russell, Zo, etc. while Garnett was more of a bigger and taller version of Scottie Pippen.

Them averaging same numbers for their careers doesn't change the fact that Garnett multiple years of better rpg averages than Robinsons career best. Keep in mind that up until 2003 KG was a SF, so his rebounding numbers are even more impressive, considering he spent quite some time on the premiter.

Never did I claim Admiral was a bad passer, but there is a considerable gap between him and KG in this regard. He rarely gets this claim, but to me Garnett is easily the GOAT passing bigmen, at least since the 80s.

You have a wrong approach for being a "legit defensive anchor." While I agree that being true center, and a great shot blocker is important, guys like Garnett, Duncan, and even Ben Wallace* have anchord some of the greatest defensive teams in history, even though they weren't primarly known for their shot-blocking. You saying Garnett is a bigger taller Pippen is actually a huge compliment, since it proves that Garnett was more versatile on the defensive end as well. He used to guard T-Mac quite a lot in h2h games, and even was on Kobe for stretches when playing the Lakers.

*I know Ben led the league in blocks, but once Sheed was traded he never had mind blowing block numbers, yet that version of the Pistons was scary good defensively.

[magnax1]

Them averaging same numbers for their careers doesn't change the fact that Garnett multiple years of better rpg averages than Robinsons career best. Keep in mind that up until 2003 KG was a SF, so his rebounding numbers are even more impressive, considering he spent quite some time on the premiter.
It's not exactly true that KG was a SF up until 03. He played a ton of SF up until 03, when he started to play more center, however he started PF in 98, parts of 99, and he was basically splitting the SF duties with Gugliotta in 97. So basically he was full time PF in 00, but it was more like Minnesota was playing 2 PFs in the late 90s.
Anyway, Robinson vs KG is a tough debate. I have KG ranked a bit higher, but it is definitely very close in just about every category. The only big difference I see is passing.

[Fatal9]

Explain yourself. I want to know your thoughts on this to see if you have a reasonable point or something of that nature.
I don't consider D-Rob as good offensively as his stats would suggest in his best years (offensive game got exposed in the playoffs a lot as a result). Both were flawed in that they didn't take over as much as they should have with the game on the line, but on a possession that matters I'd take KG's "shake and fade" over any offensive move D-Rob had (probably would settle for a face up jumper from 15 feet). But it mainly comes down to KG's intangibles/leadership, give him a decent team and he'll have everyone focused on the mission.

D-Rob was a better anchor and paint presence on defense, but if KG has a decent big backing him up/clogging the paint at C, his defensive versatility is more useful imo (in Minny he'd go out at chase down the guards 20+ feet out, or lock down superstar swingmen but would have no one backing him and it would be playtime in the paint for the other team). I have KG in my top 12 and D-Rob around 15-18.

[ThaSwagg3r]

You have a wrong approach for being a "legit defensive anchor." While I agree that being true center, and a great shot blocker is important, guys like Garnett, Duncan, and even Ben Wallace* have anchord some of the greatest defensive teams in history, even though they weren't primarly known for their shot-blocking. You saying Garnett is a bigger taller Pippen is actually a huge compliment, since it proves that Garnett was more versatile on the defensive end as well. He used to guard T-Mac quite a lot in h2h games, and even was on Kobe for stretches when playing the Lakers.

*I know Ben led the league in blocks, but once Sheed was traded he never had mind blowing block numbers, yet that version of the Pistons was scary good defensively.


D-Rob was a better anchor and paint presence on defense, but if KG has a decent big backing him up/clogging the paint at C, his defensive versatility is more useful imo (in Minny he'd go out at chase down the guards 20+ feet out, or lock down superstar swingmen but would have no one backing him and it would be playtime in the paint for the other team). I have KG in my top 12 and D-Rob around 15-18.
Thats not good IMO. I don't want my players especially my best defensive player being dependent on another player. Robinson was better defensively to me because he was not dependent on anyone to play behind him or in front of him. KG almost needs a certain system to dominate defensively while Robinson would flourish regardless of what team, personnel, and whatever you put him in.

Being more versatile pretty much means more potential and potential doesn't mean anything to me unless you are producing.

[catch24]

It more or less comes down to duration (longevity). D-Rob was the better peak player. Stupefying how good he was on both ends. He has good career averages, was an elite defensive player and a remarkable all-around player. KG's played longer and dominated/was more consistent for a longer period of time though (crazy he's sustained his play with all the nagging injuries).

Both have an MVP and DPOY, but Garnett had a longer prime than David Robinson did, so I have to give him the edge here.

[ZaaaaaH]

Very good thread. Very hard to pick one. :applause:

[ZaaaaaH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7pTiEkfQ6pk&feature=related

[bizil]

This is very close indeed! Both are amongst the most versatile players at their respective positions. Athletic ability wise, I would consider both in their primes freak athletes, especially considering they are seven footers. Both were great rebounders and defenders as well. But as some have stated, KG played a ton of SF early in his career. Dirk and Sheed did as well. Back in those days, those three started the 7 foot SF stage in the NBA. But all three settled into their PF positions.

But the versatility KG bought to the L was unheard of. A seven footer that could play AND defend 1 to 5 is insane. And he rebounded the way a PF should and was an all time great defender. However, there is nothing like a C that can anchor your team. That's why the most MVP's of all time are C's. In terms of peak value, I will lean to KG. D Rob was awesome, but he wasn't dominant on the block like Hakeem, Kareem, or Wilt were. Or even like PF's such as his boy Duncan or Mchale. D Rob could post up, but he wasn't a low post technician. KG was just as good of a rebounder, was more versatile, and could score just as good. But frankly, this could go either way.

[RobertdeMeijer]

In their prime, Robinson was a 18 Reb% kinda guy and Garnett a 20% kinda guy.
When Rodman became a Spur, Robinson dropped to about 15% : P Garnett dropped to about 17% when he became a Celtic.

On the other hand, for Offensive rebounds, it's 12% for the Admiral and 9% for the Kid. Hmm...


I myself would go for Robinson for these reasons:
1. The Spurs were alot better than the T'Wolves, when both players had subpar teammates.

2. Advanced statistics like Win Shares and SPM point heavily in Robinson's favor (DRob 1994 had 17.77 SPM, Garnett's highest is 10.82)

3. Robinson, for what it's worth, was always in a good mood and was a smart guy.

4. Robinson could shoot left handed hook shots. How many 7 footers can you name that can do that?

On the other hand, Stockton made him seem like a pushover. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcGk-TjlHwc
Then again, Stock was hard as nails.

[KGMN]

4. Robinson could shoot left handed hook shots. How many 7 footers can you name that can do that?

Most left-handed centers, probably. I know that Darko Milicic is very good at that.

[RobertdeMeijer]

Most left-handed centers, probably. I know that Darko Milicic is very good at that.

Good enough for a 46% field goal percentage, hmm...
Honestly, I hardly see Darko play. Does he really have a good hook? Anybody else?

[pauk]

DAVID ROBINSON > KEVIN GARNETT

MORE talanted-skilled-productive...... and somewhat better career i think to....

[Big#50]

In their prime, Robinson was a 18 Reb% kinda guy and Garnett a 20% kinda guy.
When Rodman became a Spur, Robinson dropped to about 15% : P Garnett dropped to about 17% when he became a Celtic.

On the other hand, for Offensive rebounds, it's 12% for the Admiral and 9% for the Kid. Hmm...


I myself would go for Robinson for these reasons:
1. The Spurs were alot better than the T'Wolves, when both players had subpar teammates.

2. Advanced statistics like Win Shares and SPM point heavily in Robinson's favor (DRob 1994 had 17.77 SPM, Garnett's highest is 10.82)

3. Robinson, for what it's worth, was always in a good mood and was a smart guy.

4. Robinson could shoot left handed hook shots. How many 7 footers can you name that can do that?

On the other hand, Stockton made him seem like a pushover. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcGk-TjlHwc
Then again, Stock was hard as nails.
DROB, his pastor, and his lord would not approve of him hurting another person.

[KGMN]

Good enough for a 46% field goal percentage, hmm...
Honestly, I hardly see Darko play. Does he really have a good hook? Anybody else?

It's his other post moves that lower his shooting percentage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmhPe3R2FOs&feature=player_embedded

His left handed hooks are good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0nvmfka3mE&feature=player_embedded#at=11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfKp_bzGFqY

From last season, a game against Miami that I went to (look how dominant Darko was, his left handed hook shot was awesome!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j9V2RvdaTQ&feature=related

That was in less than 2 quarters. ^

EDIT: Some more...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_1li47IEHQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IEx1CSnPJA

[D.J.]

KG I would say was a tad bit more versatile, but he never dominated like Admiral did. Admiral was the better scorer, rebounding was about the same, Kg gets the edge in ball handling, but Admiral was a better defender, especially in blocked shots.

[Bernie Nips]

The Admiral was obviously a far better shot blocker, but don't forget if you're comparing block numbers between the two players, it's unfair.

How would you rank Dwight Howard as a shotblocker against David Robinson? Howard is by far the best shotblocker in the league, yet his numbers are nowhere near. Rule changes and more perimeter-based play in this era leads to decreased shotblocking numbers.

[IGOTGAME]

The Admiral was obviously a far better shot blocker, but don't forget if you're comparing block numbers between the two players, it's unfair.

How would you rank Dwight Howard as a shotblocker against David Robinson? Howard is by far the best shotblocker in the league, yet his numbers are nowhere near. Rule changes and more perimeter-based play in this era leads to decreased shotblocking numbers.

no, Howard just isn't as good a shot blocker as D-Rob. It has little to do with the rules that give Howard an extra 3 seconds in the paint to roam off his man etc.

Robinson was just a better shotblocker.

[RobertdeMeijer]

It's his other post moves that lower his shooting percentage:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WmhPe3R2FOs&feature=player_embedded

His left handed hooks are good:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D0nvmfka3mE&feature=player_embedded#at=11
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zfKp_bzGFqY

From last season, a game against Miami that I went to (look how dominant Darko was, his left handed hook shot was awesome!):
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9j9V2RvdaTQ&feature=related

That was in less than 2 quarters. ^

EDIT: Some more...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_1li47IEHQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3IEx1CSnPJA


Awesome! I love seeing a good hookshot in modern times. Was this "fundamental skill" a part of the reason he was drafted 2nd?

[sundizz]

Careers probably KG, because he has consistently kept it up a bit better. Let's discuss peaks:

Admiral
-29.8 ppg, 10.7 rpg, 4.8 apg, 1.7 spg, 3.3 bpg
-27.6 ppg, 10.8 rpg, 2.9 apg, 1.7 spg, 3.2 bpg
-25 ppg, 12.2 rpg, 3.0 apg, 1.4 spg, 3.3 bpg
-25.6 ppg, 13.0 rpg, 2.5 apg, 1.5 spg, 3.9 bpg
-23.2 ppg, 12.2 rpg, 2.7 spg, 2.3 spg, 4.5 bpg

Big Ticket/Kid
-23 ppg, 13.4 rpg, 6 apg, 1.4 spg, 1.6 bpg
-24.2 ppg, 13.9 rpg, 5 apg, 1.5 spg, 2.2 bpg
-22.2 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 5.7 apg, 1.5 spg, 1.4 bpg

*KG seems to have significantly better rebounding numbers. However, if you look at the statistics Drob actually was the better offensive rebounder. Those peak years he put up 3 to 4.1 a game offensive boards. KG put up 3.0 all of those three peak years. However, I think steals/blocks in DRob's era were easier to come by with the pace and style of play. Just things to think about.


Honestly, D-Rob is the best athlete than this league has ever seen. His combination of strength, unbelievable quickness, agility, and flat out speed are unmatched. Players like Hakeem had better footwork, anticipation, and others had pure power (Shaq), but no one was a better pure athlete in the history of the sport than D-Rob.

They are both extremely dominant, but I think the 'peak' skill and statistical dominant years of D-Rob crush out KG a little bit. D-rob wasn't an unskilled passer, he just never really needed to pass the ball. He was unstoppable when he wanted to be. He could go through you, around you, over you, etc.

[KGMN]

Awesome! I love seeing a good hookshot in modern times. Was this "fundamental skill" a part of the reason he was drafted 2nd?

I'm not sure, but it was probably a factor.


"Darko is very skilled for a big guy," [assistant GM] Fredman said. "He can play both inside and outside. He has the ability to put the ball on the floor, to block shots, to pass the ball, has 3-point range and also can hit hook shots with either hand, and he's only 18."

If you want to read an article from back then, this is an interesting one:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=51ZWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=l-sDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6634,5461881&dq=darko+milicic&hl=en

I have to say, Detroit did not treat Darko very well in his rookie season. If they let him play, he might have become a star player. His game is pretty unique for today's centers. Great passing ability, very good hook shot, a very solid defender, etc. If only he decided to dunk more rather than those random layups right next to the basket...

[Bigsmoke]

KG because David was cheesy

[RobertdeMeijer]

I'm not sure, but it was probably a factor.



If you want to read an article from back then, this is an interesting one:
http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=51ZWAAAAIBAJ&sjid=l-sDAAAAIBAJ&pg=6634,5461881&dq=darko+milicic&hl=en

I have to say, Detroit did not treat Darko very well in his rookie season. If they let him play, he might have become a star player. His game is pretty unique for today's centers. Great passing ability, very good hook shot, a very solid defender, etc. If only he decided to dunk more rather than those random layups right next to the basket...


Wow, this is a completely different story than what statistics tell us (last year, Darko had -1.5 offensive win shares. yes, that's a minus!)
Now I need videos of those random layups he's making : P

I really want to like Darko because I like 7 foot guys with fundamentals. Tim Duncan was the hype before he went to the NBA because of this, and it was great. Darko on the other hand...

[KGMN]

Wow, this is a completely different story than what statistics tell us (last year, Darko had -1.5 offensive win shares. yes, that's a minus!)
Now I need videos of those random layups he's missing : P

I really want to like Darko because I like 7 foot guys with fundamentals. Tim Duncan was the hype before he went to the NBA because of this, and it was great. Darko on the other hand...

Changed!

[rmt]

I'd also go with KG. Admiral was the better scorer, and because he is bigger he was more suited for center position. Garnett is the better rebounder, and a much better passer. He is also a more versatile scorer, and IMO his ring values more than two of Robinson.

Don't agree that KG was a better rebounder. KG - 2.5 (off) + 8.3 (def) = 10.7
DRob - 3.1 (off) + 7.5 (def) = 10.6 Not that many rebounds to be had playing beside TD who averaged 12.3 rebounds playing next to DRob - in contrast, KG played beside Rasho, Perkins.

[Anaximandro1]

David Robinson of course! :cheers:

[magnax1]

The Admiral was obviously a far better shot blocker, but don't forget if you're comparing block numbers between the two players, it's unfair.

How would you rank Dwight Howard as a shotblocker against David Robinson? Howard is by far the best shotblocker in the league, yet his numbers are nowhere near. Rule changes and more perimeter-based play in this era leads to decreased shotblocking numbers.
I do think that Robinson and Dwight are comparable shot blockers. Hakeem and Robinson always went out of their way to stat stuff their shot blocking #s, which is something I rarely see Dwight do. Also the fact that the NBA has become much more perimeter oriented and added the 3 second rule has lowered shot blocking quite a bit. I'm not saying Dwight is better, but he's in the same range.

[Sarcastic]

Robinson

[ThaSwagg3r]

Remind me of each other, but the thing that might push it to Garnett for me is his killer instinct, where D-Rob was notorious for being soft.
If there was any intangible that Kevin Garnett was missing it was killer instinct. There was a reason why KG wasn't even able to get past the 1st round before Cassell and Sprewell arrived in '03-'04. He did not have the capability of closing out games because he was virtually the same player in the 1st quarter as he was in the 4th quarter. If Garnett had a killer instinct he would have put his team on his back and win games, but he was never able to do that and do it consistently.

Sure Garnett had games where he had shown signs of brilliance in the clutch and capability of closing out games (Game 7 in the 2nd round vs. the Kings in 2004) but he was never really able to do it consistently like Dirk, Kobe, MJ, etc. could.

[IGOTGAME]

I do think that Robinson and Dwight are comparable shot blockers. Hakeem and Robinson always went out of their way to stat stuff their shot blocking #s, which is something I rarely see Dwight do. Also the fact that the NBA has become much more perimeter oriented and added the 3 second rule has lowered shot blocking quite a bit. I'm not saying Dwight is better, but he's in the same range.
pls explain how someone stat pads blocked shots?

[sick_brah07]

There's no such thing as a player which "crushes" peak Garnett. That's just a ridiculous statement.

i dislike garnett but this is true ... i feel robinson has a tiny edge on garnett offensively but id still rather have garnett on my team, more intensity and it seems to rub off on the other team mates

[ShaqAttack3234]

Their impact is pretty similar. I'd take Robinson defensively(though KG is an all-time great defender) and as a scorer(though the gap isn't as big as the stats suggest, KG has the edge as a passer(though Robinson was a very good passer as well).

But I think that Robinson's scoring is often overrated. His back to the basket game always seemed awkward and unimpressive to me. Don't get me wrong, he had other gifts that made him capable of putting up points such as a face up jumper and the ability to take pretty much any center off the dribble or outrun any center for an easy basket and he was a great target for lobs, but less easy baskets like that are available in the playoffs and he seemed to play softer than he did in the regular season.

His '94 season probably causes people to overrate him as a scorer the most. It was impressive, but there was a lot of stat-padding going on that year(not just that 71 point game on the last day of the season to win the scoring title, but John Lucas was pretty much David's cheerleader and encouraged him to statpad all season). Of course in the first round loss to Utah, he dropped to 20 ppg on 41% shooting.

And out of his 22 career 40+ games, very few came against anything other than poor defensive teams, and most of those teams that weren't poor defensively, were average. And actually, even if you include his one 40 point playoff game, it was also against one of the worst defensive teams in the league(1996 1st round vs Phoenix).

In Robinson's first 7 seasons before his injury, he was a good, but not dominant 24 ppg/49 FG%/56 TS% player in the playoffs. But those are also boosted by some of those early 90's series vs run and gun teams which were Robinson's most impressive statistically.

For example.

1990 vs Denver- 27.7 ppg, 13.7 rpg, 59.3 FG%, 63 TS% (pace in the series was 108.8)
1991 vs Warriors- 25.8 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 68.6 FG%, 76 TS% (Warriors were the 5th worst defensive team in the league and Robinson's 55 win Spurs lost to the 44 win Warriors)

For those prime years, Robinson just had too few dominant series and too many series like the ones I'm about to list to call him a truly great scorer(which some do).

1993 1st round vs Portland- 19.3 ppg, 42.6 FG%, 48.7 TS%
1994 1st round vs Utah- 20 ppg, 41.1 FG%, 47.1 TS%
1995 1st round vs Denver- 19 ppg, 42.9 FG%, 49.3 TS%
1996 semifinals vs Utah- 19.3 ppg, 47.5 FG%, 52.6 TS%

Actually, I think KG and Robinson are similar in that regard. I wouldn't want to rely on either to carry my team with scoring(25+ ppg) in the playoffs, but both impacted the game in the other areas at an elite level.

KG actually had the skills to be a better scorer, imo, but shot too many jumpers and sometimes played too much like a perimeter player to maximize his potential at that end. That's why the 2008 Celtics were an ideal situation for him. If Robinson had won a title as the best player, then I'd see a situation like that being ideal.

[Hondo]

Robinson

[necya]

:oldlol: Robinson, there is no debate here, well except on ish :facepalm

[rodman91]

David Robinson.

[bizil]

Their impact is pretty similar. I'd take Robinson defensively(though KG is an all-time great defender) and as a scorer(though the gap isn't as big as the stats suggest, KG has the edge as a passer(though Robinson was a very good passer as well).

But I think that Robinson's scoring is often overrated. His back to the basket game always seemed awkward and unimpressive to me. Don't get me wrong, he had other gifts that made him capable of putting up points such as a face up jumper and the ability to take pretty much any center off the dribble or outrun any center for an easy basket and he was a great target for lobs, but less easy baskets like that are available in the playoffs and he seemed to play softer than he did in the regular season.

His '94 season probably causes people to overrate him as a scorer the most. It was impressive, but there was a lot of stat-padding going on that year(not just that 71 point game on the last day of the season to win the scoring title, but John Lucas was pretty much David's cheerleader and encouraged him to statpad all season). Of course in the first round loss to Utah, he dropped to 20 ppg on 41% shooting.

And out of his 22 career 40+ games, very few came against anything other than poor defensive teams, and most of those teams that weren't poor defensively, were average. And actually, even if you include his one 40 point playoff game, it was also against one of the worst defensive teams in the league(1996 1st round vs Phoenix).

In Robinson's first 7 seasons before his injury, he was a good, but not dominant 24 ppg/49 FG%/56 TS% player in the playoffs. But those are also boosted by some of those early 90's series vs run and gun teams which were Robinson's most impressive statistically.

For example.

1990 vs Denver- 27.7 ppg, 13.7 rpg, 59.3 FG%, 63 TS% (pace in the series was 108.8)
1991 vs Warriors- 25.8 ppg, 13.5 rpg, 68.6 FG%, 76 TS% (Warriors were the 5th worst defensive team in the league and Robinson's 55 win Spurs lost to the 44 win Warriors)

For those prime years, Robinson just had too few dominant series and too many series like the ones I'm about to list to call him a truly great scorer(which some do).

1993 1st round vs Portland- 19.3 ppg, 42.6 FG%, 48.7 TS%
1994 1st round vs Utah- 20 ppg, 41.1 FG%, 47.1 TS%
1995 1st round vs Denver- 19 ppg, 42.9 FG%, 49.3 TS%
1996 semifinals vs Utah- 19.3 ppg, 47.5 FG%, 52.6 TS%

Actually, I think KG and Robinson are similar in that regard. I wouldn't want to rely on either to carry my team with scoring(25+ ppg) in the playoffs, but both impacted the game in the other areas at an elite level.

KG actually had the skills to be a better scorer, imo, but shot too many jumpers and sometimes played too much like a perimeter player to maximize his potential at that end. That's why the 2008 Celtics were an ideal situation for him. If Robinson had won a title as the best player, then I'd see a situation like that being ideal.

Great post! I think the thing about D Rob is that he had the strength to really battle those big guys inside. He could control the paint better than KG. But as you stated, KG is still and all time great defender. And KG can defend multiple positions, damn near any position on the floor. People gotta remember KG came in the L at 7'0 and 225 pounds. That's very light in the ass for a 7 footer. But KG had the skillset of SF\ point forward. D Rob was always a man amongst boys type in terms of his strength and awesome athletic ability.

KG could have been a better scorer if he would have posted up some more. I think that's the SF in him shooting those perimeter jumpers. But KG showed very good skill on the block over time. I think KG showed enough offensive brilliance to be considerd a Batman. But I wouldn't put him on the level of Dirk, Barkley, or Malone in terms of Batman scoring for PF's.

[SCdac]

I got David to sign my mac tonight! wow what a nice guy. I told him last time there was a lockout it went well for the Spurs and he agreed. dude is tall as ****

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y147/adrumaddict/IMG_3769.jpg

*I had to tell SOMEBODY into basketball, didn't feel like making a new thread. Robinson > KG if you ask me, but it's more even than not

[Friday]

KG because David was cheesy
What the hell kind of reason is that?

[wang4three]

David Robinson. Better player and had more class.

[1987_Lakers]

People tend to underrated current legends that are still playing, but KG will be considered the 2nd best PF in league history once he retires, mark my words. And KG > Robinson.

[ThaSwagg3r]

KG could have been a better scorer if he would have posted up some more. I think that's the SF in him shooting those perimeter jumpers. But KG showed very good skill on the block over time. I think KG showed enough offensive brilliance to be considerd a Batman. But I wouldn't put him on the level of Dirk, Barkley, or Malone in terms of Batman scoring for PF's.
Good post, I agree with this part especially. Garnett won a championship with the '07-'08 Celtics as the Batman. The '07-'08 Celtics team was perfect for him because Pierce and Allen were reliable go-to scorers and shooters in the clutch. Garnett never got past the 1st round until the 2004 playoffs and it was because he never had a player that could close out a game. In that '03-'04 Wolves team he finally got what he needed with Sam Cassell and Latrell Sprewell, two capable closers and scorers. That was always KG's weakness, his ability to close out games. Garnett was virtually the same player in the 1st quarter as he was in the 4th quarter. He doesn't put the team on his back like Dirk, MJ, Kobe, etc. do. That is not to say he couldn't win as the Batman scorer of his team though. He has actually put the team on his back a few times in his career, the most memorable being Game 7 vs. the Kings in the 2004 playoffs but not on a consistent basis like those other three I listed did.

This is why I always thought combinations like Iverson-KG, Kobe-KG, Tmac-KG could work out well. KG brings everything but the take over scoring while the other guys would bring the scoring.

[bizil]

People tend to underrated current legends that are still playing, but KG will be considered the 2nd best PF in league history once he retires, mark my words. And KG > Robinson.

I agree with u! I have KG over DRob too. KG has an argument already for the 2nd best PF on a GOAT list. He has the ring that Barkley and Malone don't have. I think KG along with Barkley are unique amongst PF's cause they rebound and play big like a PF should but are insanely versatile on top of it. KG is one of the elite defensive players of all time on top it and can defend damn near any position on the court. But KG and Barkley also had SF and even point forward type ability as well. Both played the SF in their careers and thrived playing the SF. That's why in my book, KG and Barkley are on another level when it comes to PF's. They can play big like the other great PF's. But they have skillsets like SF's. I think if u redefine a position the way KG has, it gives u an advantage on a GOAT list.