No Haters Allowed, But Explain To Me How D Rose Is On Pace To Be Better Than D Wade

[detroitdogg]

I can't understand how dudes can come up with this assumption, Wade had a better rookie year, a wayyyy better 2nd year, and Roses MVP year is not compareable on any level to Wades championship year (both of their 3rd seasons). I love D Rose and I feel like he will become the best scoring pg to ever play the game, but Roses peak will mostlikely be a better and more efficient Iverson, not Wade, not Lebron, not Kobe, but a more effective AI. Wade has been the baby Jordan in the league since his 2nd year, his similarities, his stregnths, and his skills are compareable to MJ from 84-89, Rose just can't do the things Wade does on a level behind Jordan.

Where has there been any indication that Rose could be better than Wade, its not in the numbers, its not in the accomplishments, its not in the individual stregnths and weaknesses, its just not there. Rose is easily in my top 5 fav of today, but I see it as disrespect to just throw Rose up there with Wade knowing all thr things Wade has done/still is doing in his career.

No matter how you want to slice the years up, however you want to disect th skills, Rose loses badly, but somehow people feel like he is on par to be better, smh, how is this.

[2LeTTeRS]

What is this "on pace to be better than" that you speak of?

[lilgodfather1]

Just because you said no haters doesn't mean there won't be. To answer the question I have to ask one. Who the hell thinks Rose will be better than Wade? It is obsurd to think that. Have a better career maybe but he will never be a better player.

[SunsCaptain]

Ummm well Roses first 3 seasons are better than Kobe's first 3 seasons...

Roses first 2 seasons FG% is better than ANY of Kobe's seasons. Kobe cant get over what like 47%?

Roses stats last season in only his 3rd season reflect Kobe's career stats.

Roses 3pt% last season is higher than like 7 of Kobe's seasons.

Kobe is overrated and Rose is just getting started.

[97 bulls]

Just because you said no haters doesn't mean there won't be. To answer the question I have to ask one. Who the hell thinks Rose will be better than Wade? It is obsurd to think that. Have a better career maybe but he will never be a better player.
But why can't he be better than wade? You're painting a scenario that only allows rose to take the same path wade has taken. Rose is only 22 or 23. He's never played with a center the caliber of even shaq in the twilight of his career.

Wades game hasn't changed much from when he entered the league. His jumpshot has improved to suspect at best. And I feel his defense is overrated.

[28renyoy]

Rose is nowhere near 3rd year Wade's level, period. Rose is worse at every single thing.

[Rose]

Rose is nowhere near 3rd year Wade's level, period. Rose is worse at every single thing.
Not turning it over as much, passing, free throws, and 3s!
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/w/wadedw01.html

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/r/rosede01.html

[RRR3]

But why can't he be better than wade? You're painting a scenario that only allows rose to take the same path wade has taken. Rose is only 22 or 23. He's never played with a center the caliber of even shaq in the twilight of his career.

Wades game hasn't changed much from when he entered the league. His jumpshot has improved to suspect at best. And I feel his defense is overrated.

Because Wade is a one in a million talent. Rose is going to be great, but Wade could end up as the second best SG of all time, although he probably finishes third behind MJ and Kobe.

[97 bulls]

Because Wade is a one in a million talent. Rose is going to be great, but Wade could end up as the second best SG of all time, although he probably finishes third behind MJ and Kobe.
Lol so is rose. In fact, I see rose finishing ranked higher than wade. Cuz ii feel wade will win one more championship with the heat and I think rose will win 2. Factor in the roy and the mvp and rose has a better career than wade.

[RRR3]

Lol so is rose. In fact, I see rose finishing ranked higher than wade. Cuz ii feel wade will win one more championship with the heat and I think rose will win 2. Factor in the roy and the mvp and rose has a better career than wade.

:facepalm Factor in that Rose is an idiot and Wade is not, and is more talented...Wade will have a better career. Do you know how good some of Wade's years have been? Do you remember his 2006 playoff run (in his third season I might add)? What did Rose do in his third year in the playoffs? LOL

[Rowe]

Lol so is rose. In fact, I see rose finishing ranked higher than wade. Cuz ii feel wade will win one more championship with the heat and I think rose will win 2. Factor in the roy and the mvp and rose has a better career than wade.

Well, Wade has something called the Bill Russell Finals MVP Trophy.

He also earned it putting forth arguably the most dominant NBA Finals performances in NBA history.

So Rose already has a better career than Wade? Trollolol

[Rowe]

But why can't he be better than wade? You're painting a scenario that only allows rose to take the same path wade has taken. Rose is only 22 or 23. He's never played with a center the caliber of even shaq in the twilight of his career.

Wades game hasn't changed much from when he entered the league. His jumpshot has improved to suspect at best. And I feel his defense is overrated.

Ridiculous.

Im out of this thread, its about to become a troll war with you involved.

[RRR3]

Ridiculous.

Im out of this thread, its about to become a troll war with you involved.

Funny how a Rose stan is talking about another player's jumpshot. :oldlol: :roll:

[97 bulls]

:facepalm Factor in that Rose is an idiot and Wade is not, and is more talented...Wade will have a better career. Do you know how good some of Wade's years have been? Do you remember his 2006 playoff run (in his third season I might add)? What did Rose do in his third year in the playoffs? LOL
Wow what has rose done to be called an idiot?

[RRR3]

Wow what has rose done to be called an idiot?

He plays like a moron, taking retarded shots when he is at best a somewhat above average shooter (but far from elite) and doesn't involve his team nearly enough for the position he plays. He is an undersized SG IMO, and needs to increase his awareness in games.

[TheLogo]

Rose is actually on pace to be better than Jordan.

Jordan never won a MVP this early in Rose's career.

Also, imagine the beasting Rose would do if he had Pippen and Rodman on his team.

[DMAVS41]

He's not.

[97 bulls]

Funny how a Rose stan is talking about another player's jumpshot. :oldlol: :roll:
Wades been in the league for 8 years now. Neither had much of a jumper when they forst entered but rose is improving to the point to not being that far off from wade. And in less time. He's already passed him in range.

[RRR3]

Rose is actually on pace to be better than Jordan.

Jordan never won a MVP this early in Rose's career.

Also, imagine the beasting Rose would do if he had Pippen and Rodman on his team.
:facepalm

Michael Jordan averaged 37 ****ing points a game in his third year. You lose.

[lilgodfather1]

Because Wade is a one in a million talent. Rose is going to be great, but Wade could end up as the second best SG of all time, although he probably finishes third behind MJ and Kobe.
And Jerry West. Unless something close to LeBron's not 1, 2, 3... thing happens then Wade won't be above these guys. Rose however could become the second GOAT PG considering he's the youngest MVP ever (undeserved) and his team has a chance to be title contenders for years. Oscar is his competition, but I believe Rose could pass Oscar on the all time list. Be a better player probobally not, but if he gets a title or two he should pass Oscar.

[RRR3]

Wades been in the league for 8 years now. Neither had much of a jumper when they forst entered but rose is improving to the point to not being that far off from wade. And in less time. He's already passed him in range.

That's nice. Wade is 100x the defender Rose is, more consistent ballhandler, much better rebounder, and despite being a SG, not much different in terms of passing skill. Wade can also be damn near impossible to stop when he drives.

[97 bulls]

He plays like a moron, taking retarded shots when he is at best a somewhat above average shooter (but far from elite) and doesn't involve his team nearly enough for the position he plays. He is an undersized SG IMO, and needs to increase his awareness in games.
I actually agree with this. I'm banking on him adjusting as he matures and learns the game.

[RRR3]

And Jerry West. Unless something close to LeBron's not 1, 2, 3... thing happens then Wade won't be above these guys. Rose however could become the second GOAT PG considering he's the youngest MVP ever (undeserved) and his team has a chance to be title contenders for years. Oscar is his competition, but I believe Rose could pass Oscar on the all time list. Be a better player probobally not, but if he gets a title or two he should pass Oscar.

Didn't West have a 1-8 record in the finals? :oldlol:

[TheLogo]

:facepalm

Michael Jordan averaged 37 ****ing points a game in his third year. You lose.

:facepalm

MVP>>>37ppg

It's really sad to see Bulls' fans trashing their very own Derrick Rose, for a player in the past. I've seen it happen too many times on here.

Pathetic.

[Stuckey]

now im sleepy again

another nap? i already slept 8 hours

valproic acid is a ... bitch

[RRR3]

:facepalm

MVP>>>37ppg

It's really sad to see Bulls' fans trashing their very own Derrick Rose, for a player in the past.

Pathetic.

I'm not a Bulls fan, first of all. And you're telling me 37/5/5 with 3 steals 1.5 Blocks per game, on 48.2 % shooting, 29.8 PER is worse than 25/8/4 with 1 steal, .6 blocks, on 44.5% shooting and a 23.5 PER? LOL Rose didn't even deserve the MVP. GTFO.

[97 bulls]

:facepalm

Michael Jordan averaged 37 ****ing points a game in his third year. You lose.
Well sure. And id be estatic if he did even accumilate enough accomplishments to be in the argument. But players like jordan, magic, jabaar, bird, bryant, shaq, wilt, russel.... they've accomplished too much to try to project out that far.

Notice the source. Logo dislikes jordan.

[TheLogo]

I'm not a Bulls fan, first of all. And you're telling me 37/5/5 with 3 steals 1.5 Blocks per game, on 48.2 % shooting, 29.8 PER is worse than 25/8/4 with 1 steal, .6 blocks, on 44.5% shooting and a 23.5 PER? LOL Rose didn't even deserve the MVP. GTFO.

Give me Rose's season all day and twice on Sunday.

MJ was ballhogging that year and they went 40-42. Jordan had 5 double-double that year.

Rose was beasting and went on to the ECF. Rose had 23 double-doubles and a triple double.

Rose was better and at this rate and pace he will probably become the greatest Bulls player ever.

You GTFO. :)

[97 bulls]

That's nice. Wade is 100x the defender Rose is, more consistent ballhandler, much better rebounder, and despite being a SG, not much different in terms of passing skill. Wade can also be damn near impossible to stop when he drives.
Pay attention to what your doing. You're comparing a player that's an 8 year vet and 5 years older to a player that's 22 and been in the league for 3 years.

The question is "is rose ON PACE to pass wade?" You seem to be comparing the two as they are now. And if you are, I agree wade is the better player.

[inthenickoftime]

lol this thread started out all wrong should be how D.Rose has the possibility to be better than Wade, as of right now he isn't though comparing there first three seasons

[97 bulls]

lol this thread started out all wrong should be how D.Rose has the possibility to be better than Wade, as of right now he isn't though comparing there first three seasons
Exactly. Its sad and scary that we must share the road with some of these people.

[TheLogo]

lol this thread started out all wrong should be how D.Rose has the possibility to be better than Wade, as of right now he isn't though comparing there first three seasons

should be compared to Jordan.

that would be more correct because of what Rose has done so early in his career compared to Mike.

[RRR3]

Give me Rose's season all day and twice on Sunday.

MJ was ballhogging that year and they went 40-42. Jordan had 5 double-double that year.

Rose was beasting and went on to the ECF. Rose had 23 double-doubles and a triple double.

Rose was better and at this rate and pace he will probably become the greatest Bulls player ever.
http://i340.photobucket.com/albums/o346/natyabtc/mc%20gif/127fs13237101.gif

[Rowe]

Give me Rose's season all day and twice on Sunday.

MJ was ballhogging that year and they went 40-42. Jordan had 5 double-double that year.

Rose was beasting and went on to the ECF. Rose had 23 double-doubles and a triple double.

Rose was better and at this rate and pace he will probably become the greatest Bulls player ever.

You GTFO. :)

http://i53.tinypic.com/33vkxtk.gif

[97 bulls]

should be compared to Jordan.

that would be more correct because of what Rose has done so early in his career compared to Mike.
Lol why jordan? Your infatuation with jordan is damn near criminal. I'm telling you if jordan ever came up missing, I'm submitting some of your posts to the feds lol.

[RRR3]

Lol why jordan? Your infatuation with jordan is damn near criminal. I'm telling you if jordan ever came up missing, I'm submitting some of your posts to the feds lol.

He likes to discredit Jordan because he knows that MJ shits all over his hero (Kobe).

[TheLogo]

Lol why jordan? Your infatuation with jordan is damn near criminal. I'm telling you if jordan ever came up missing, I'm submitting some of your posts to the feds lol.

why not?

they play on the same franchise. Rose is a superstar coming off a MVP year in which he led his team to ECF.

I get it...you're like Laker fans where it's taboo to compare Kobe to Magic. So I can't compare Rose to Jordan because then you would have to pick and choose?

:cheers:

[RRR3]

why not?

they play on the same franchise. Rose is a superstar coming off a MVP year in which he led his team to ECF.

I get it...you're like Laker fans where it's taboo to compare Kobe to Magic. So I can't compare Rose to Jordan because then you would have to pick and choose?

:cheers:

Even an insane person would pick Jordan. :facepalm

[inthenickoftime]

Give me Rose's season all day and twice on Sunday.

MJ was ballhogging that year and they went 40-42. Jordan had 5 double-double that year.

Rose was beasting and went on to the ECF. Rose had 23 double-doubles and a triple double.

Rose was better and at this rate and pace he will probably become the greatest Bulls player ever.

You GTFO. :)

http://theuniblog.evilspacerobot.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/naughty_memes_i_bet_its_spider_man_comics_meme_bas e_6-s500x368-147493-580.jpg

[TheLogo]

I also find it so sad that Bulls' fans don't want success from Rose because somehow it makes him look better than Jordan.

That is downright pathetic. They want his legacy to be so protected that they don't want their current MVP to succeed because they can't see anyone being better than their beloved Jordan.

They are probably one of the worse fans in the nation.

[97 bulls]

why not?

they play on the same franchise. Rose is a superstar coming off a MVP year in which he led his team to ECF.

I get it...you're like Laker fans where it's taboo to compare Kobe to Magic. So I can't compare Rose to Jordan because then you would have to pick and choose?

:cheers:
I'm pulling for rose to pass jordan, trust me. Or at least as long as he's a bull. But that's really far fetched. Could he? Sure. But your talking about him accomplishing so much. Its just too much.

Kobe and magic? Well they're very similar in accomplishments. And even still, when kobe won his first championship back when he was 22 or 23 I didn't see people saying he was on his way to magic johnson status.

[97 bulls]

I also find it so sad that Bulls' fans don't want success from Rose because somehow it makes him look better than Jordan.

That is downright pathetic. They want his legacy to be so protected that they don't want their current MVP to succeed because they can't see anyone being better than their beloved Jordan.

They are probably one of the worse fans in the nation.
You must consider the source. The guys you argue with aren't bulls fans. They're jordan fans. There's a huge difference.

I as a bulls fan would love to see derrick rose lead the bulls to 7 championships and win 6 mvps and lead the leagu in assists a few times along the way.

[detroitdogg]

You must consider the source. The guys you argue with aren't bulls fans. They're jordan fans. There's a huge difference.

I as a bulls fan would love to see derrick rose lead the bulls to 7 championships and win 6 mvps and lead the leagu in assists a few times along the way.
Being a dedicted fan is good on my behalf, but let's get real here bruh, if Rose wins 5-6 rings he is still nowhere close to being better than MJ, 1st off I seriously doubt he will ever average 25ppg again as the Bulls gets better scorers (barely did it this year, he went ham the last month to go from 23-25 and raised his fg%), and he does not create enough offense to ever be a 10apg type of player, his numbers are so far off from being Jordan like that its near impossible.

Now John Wall has a better chance at a 20 and 10 career than Rose, I see Rose finishing up with bout a 23 and 7 career, which is not better than Bron, and Wade, and maybe Kobe, but he is far off from the 2 best in the league.

[nathanjizzle]

derrick rose was 19 when he entered the nba....dwyane was was wat? 22? possibly 23

[detroitdogg]

derrick rose was 19 when he entered the nba....dwyane was was wat? 22? possibly 23
Age means nothing when you are counting years in the league, once in then all playing and training fields are even

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Can you explain how exactly is Rose "on pace" to be better than Wade?

[Ikill]

derrick rose was 19 when he entered the nba....dwyane was was wat? 22? possibly 23
Rose was 20 Wade was 21/22. Wade played two years of college rose played one

[97 bulls]

Being a dedicted fan is good on my behalf, but let's get real here bruh, if Rose wins 5-6 rings he is still nowhere close to being better than MJ, 1st off I seriously doubt he will ever average 25ppg again as the Bulls gets better scorers (barely did it this year, he went ham the last month to go from 23-25 and raised his fg%), and he does not create enough offense to ever be a 10apg type of player, his numbers are so far off from being Jordan like that its near impossible.

Now John Wall has a better chance at a 20 and 10 career than Rose, I see Rose finishing up with bout a 23 and 7 career, which is not better than Bron, and Wade, and maybe Kobe, but he is far off from the 2 best in the league.
Again, did you read the whole conversation? I honestly doubt rose will come anywhere near accomplishing a quarter of what jordan accomplished. Logo wanted to lump me and other bulls fans in with guys don't want anyone to pass jprdan. I responded by saying id love to see it happen but that's far fetched.

This is the one bad thing about posting. People take snipits and react to it. Instead of the convo as a whole.

[nathanjizzle]

Rose was 20 Wade was 21/22. Wade played two years of college rose played one

wade played 3 years, rose played 1...rose was 19 when he entered the league. and to say age doesnt matter is a fucin stupid statement. anyone here that is 22 yrs + can say they are not the same man when they were 19.

[Ikill]

wade played 3 years, rose played 1...rose was 19 when he entered the league. and to say age doesnt matter is a fucin stupid statement. anyone here that is 22 yrs + can say they are not the same man when they were 19.
Wade didn't play his first year of college. Rose was 20 not 19 Wade was 21 when the season started 22 half way through the season.

[Go Getter]

Wade has never played close to a full season.

I think If Rose stays healthy and improves every year it is possible but not likely-- with Wade's finals MVP and title it's gonna take a lot of work.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Wade has never played close to a full season.

I think If Rose stays healthy and improves every year it is possible but not likely-- with Wade's finals MVP and title it's gonna take a lot of work.
:rolleyes:

04-05: 77 games played
05-06: 75 Games played
08-09: 79 games played
09-10: 77 games played
10-11: 76 games played.

[Smoke117]

He's not. This season he just had was much more inefficient than any of Wade's healthy seasons he has had, even though he's a pg his passing and play making isn't much better IF AT ALL, and defensively Wade is far superior. Only Bulls fans and Rose homers put him on pace to even be as good as Wade. Anyone who says he'll be better without Rose showing shit yet are just absurd and not worth anyone's attention. This whole argument that Drose is all alone offensively is complete horse shit too as far as the comparison to Wade. Whether or not he was in his prime or not, Wade had the BEST SEASON of his career by far in 09 when his 2nd best player was a rookie Beasley. That team was complete utter garbage and he shit all over the league. Double, triple teams didn't mean a thing he did whatever he pleased.

[poido123]

Rose may never reach Wade's level, I'm ok with that, and as a bulls fan all I care about is rings. Like people have said wade is far superior in defense, has shown he can handle double even triple teams, and has won a championship. Until Rose can get much better at defense, more effficient at his offense, and win a championship, only then should the talk reopen.

My biggest concern going forward is how are we going to win a ring with Boozer in the team? I'm really not sure a good SG is going to help enough, Boozer does not translate the Bulls philosophy on the court, poor defender, and not sure his head is on winning. Noah doesnt seem to play well with him either, I really hope we can get rid of him for a bag of chips.

[Go Getter]

:rolleyes:

04-05: 77 games played
05-06: 75 Games played
08-09: 79 games played
09-10: 77 games played
10-11: 76 games played.
you creatively dismissed the two seasons he only played around 50 games. Clever.:rolleyes:

[Go Getter]

Rose may never reach Wade's level, I'm ok with that, and as a bulls fan all I care about is rings. Like people have said wade is far superior in defense, has shown he can handle double even triple teams, and has won a championship. Until Rose can get much better at defense, more effficient at his offense, and win a championship, only then should the talk reopen.

My biggest concern going forward is how are we going to win a ring with Boozer in the team? I'm really not sure a good SG is going to help enough, Boozer does not translate the Bulls philosophy on the court, poor defender, and not sure his head is on winning. Noah doesnt seem to play well with him either, I really hope we can get rid of him for a bag of chips.


He translated into a 62 win season and a top defense.:facepalm

[Go Getter]

He's not. This season he just had was much more inefficient than any of Wade's healthy seasons he has had, even though he's a pg his passing and play making isn't much better IF AT ALL, and defensively Wade is far superior. Only Bulls fans and Rose homers put him on pace to even be as good as Wade. Anyone who says he'll be better without Rose showing shit yet are just absurd and not worth anyone's attention. This whole argument that Drose is all alone offensively is complete horse shit too as far as the comparison to Wade. Whether or not he was in his prime or not, Wade had the BEST SEASON of his career by far in 09 when his 2nd best player was a rookie Beasley. That team was complete utter garbage and he shit all over the league. Double, triple teams didn't mean a thing he did whatever he pleased.


Rose shot 49%/47% for a whole season how is that far less efficient than Wade who spent three seasons turning the ball over like mad?

[All Net]

People do act like Rose shoots 43-44% every year when he is only one year removed from shooting close go 48% from the field

[z14h]

To be honest, I don't think legitimate comparisons can be made between any players until their career is up.

[Papaya Petee]

People do act like Rose shoots 43-44% every year when he is only one year removed from shooting close go 48% from the field
Because the years he shot 48% he averaged 16 and 21 points per game :rolleyes:

The one season he got close to 25 his efficiency dropped like crazy.

Wade is always around the 49-50% mark. Shit he averaged 30 PPG on 49% for a whole season, that's almost unheard of.

[KingBeasley08]

he isnt

only dumb rose stans think so

:roll: :roll: :roll:

rose stans and kobe stans are related :oldlol:

[97 bulls]

Because the years he shot 48% he averaged 16 and 21 points per game :rolleyes:

The one season he got close to 25 his efficiency dropped like crazy.

Wade is always around the 49-50% mark. Shit he averaged 30 PPG on 49% for a whole season, that's almost unheard of.
What really hurt rose FG% is him taking all those threes. Not his attempts.

[97 bulls]

A lot of you guys seem to be missing the question. Or maybe I am....

I thought the question was whether or not rose is on pace to be better than wade? Not is rose better than wade now.

A lot of the pro wade replies are based on now. Can you honestly say roses defense won't improve?

Do you really feel this past season will be roses best? He's only played three years. Come on

[oolalaa]

does anyone else think derrick rose should move to shooting guard?

It's tough to win with a slashing pg who is your highest scorer and i think it would benefit him and the bulls...

[GreatGreg]

he isnt

only dumb rose stans think so

:roll: :roll: :roll:

rose stans and kobe stans are related :oldlol:
Let's put it this way, retard.
Everyone before last season saw Rose average something like 22/3/7 in his third year. Very, very few people saw him averaging what he did. He went above and beyond and improved just about everything of his game, and as a result, averaged 25/4/8. Obviously if there were a legitimate 2-guard, Rose wouldn't have averaged as much and took so many shots.
Rose is very young, and coming off of an MVP season. Lol @ you for thinking he's not going to do even better.

[GreatGreg]

A lot of you guys seem to be missing the question. Or maybe I am....

I thought the question was whether or not rose is on pace to be better than wade? Not is rose better than wade now.

A lot of the pro wade replies are based on now. Can you honestly say roses defense won't improve?

Do you really feel this past season will be roses best? He's only played three years. Come on
Thank you. Only haters think he isn't going to get better.

[KingBeasley08]

Let's put it this way, retard.
Everyone before last season saw Rose average something like 22/3/7 in his third year. Very, very few people saw him averaging what he did. He went above and beyond and improved just about everything of his game, and as a result, averaged 25/4/8. Obviously if there were a legitimate 2-guard, Rose wouldn't have averaged as much and took so many shots.
Rose is very young, and coming off of an MVP season. Lol @ you for thinking he's not going to do even better.
get better.. sure. better than wade... gtfo

is this go getter's other account? n!ggahs are acting like prime rose is gonna average 31/12/7 with elite defense in the future. after your third or fourth season, your stats don't improve as much

[LosBulls]

get better.. sure. better than wade... gtfo

is this go getter's other account? n!ggahs are acting like prime rose is gonna average 31/12/7 with elite defense in the future. after your third or fourth season, your stats don't improve as much

This is gonna be funny.

[crosso√er]

Ummm well Roses first 3 seasons are better than Kobe's first 3 seasons...

Roses first 2 seasons FG% is better than ANY of Kobe's seasons. Kobe cant get over what like 47%?

Roses stats last season in only his 3rd season reflect Kobe's career stats.

Roses 3pt% last season is higher than like 7 of Kobe's seasons.

Kobe is overrated and Rose is just getting started.

:roll: Probably the worst post I have ever read on this forum, just WOW.

[donald_trump]

Give me Rose's season all day and twice on Sunday.

MJ was ballhogging that year and they went 40-42. Jordan had 5 double-double that year.

Rose was beasting and went on to the ECF. Rose had 23 double-doubles and a triple double.

Rose was better and at this rate and pace he will probably become the greatest Bulls player ever.

You GTFO. :)

just a couple posts back you mentioned how much rose would have been beasting if he had rodman and pippen. and then you blame jordan as if he had a poor year with the team he had in his 3rd year compared to roses team in his 3rd year.

you have to be consistent with your argument because you'll just end up looking like an idiot. but thats nothing new for you is it?

[TheLogo]

just a couple posts back you mentioned how much rose would have been beasting if he had rodman and pippen. and then you blame jordan as if he had a poor year with the team he had in his 3rd year compared to roses team in his 3rd year.

you have to be consistent with your argument because you'll just end up looking like an idiot. but thats nothing new for you is it?

reading comprehension isn't your best friend, is he?

go stroke him some more and re-read, perhaps then you can put everything in context and chronologically, so you know what I was saying.

[97 bulls]

get better.. sure. better than wade... gtfo

is this go getter's other account? n!ggahs are acting like prime rose is gonna average 31/12/7 with elite defense in the future. after your third or fourth season, your stats don't improve as much
Dwayne wade has come nowhere near this kind of production. I honestly see prime rose with a few 27/6/8 season on 48% shooting.

[az00m]

Whoever said Rose is going to be better than jordan is ****ing crazy

ok bye now, i made my one post this month.

[jrong]

He isn't. Anyone who thinks he is doesn't understand the difference between Michael Jordan and Allen Iverson.

Wade is a Jordan-- an all-around, two-way player who maintains the same efficiency regardless of his offensive load. Rose is an Iverson, a player with definite areas of weakness-- significantly defense-- whose efficiency has an inverse relationship with his offensive workload.... And that doesn't ordinarily change. Players in this category don't typically experience efficiency jumps unless they reduce their shot totals (see Allen Iverson).

Moreover, players have a performance curve over their career. Here's the first the first three years of Wade's career:

Rookie: 16/4/4
Sophomomore: 24/5/7
3rd: 27/6/7

And here's Rose:

Rookie: 17/4/6
Sophomore: 21/4/8
3rd: 25/4/8

Now here's Wade's numbers over the portions of the next three years that he was healthy

4th: 29/5/8 (pre-injury, through 50 games)
6th: 30/5/7.5

What you can observe first by looking at these numbers is Rose's 3rd year, his MVP year, was no better than Wade's second year (and actually worse if we include FG% and peripheral stats) and notably behind Wade's 3rd year. To catch up to Wade's track this year, then, he needs to be posting what Wade did in year 4 before the shoulder tear. Then in Year 5, he should be where Wade was in Year 6, because Wade's 5th year was wrecked by persisting injury, and he very likely would have made the jump in Year 5 to where he landed in Year 6.

....And finally if you can't see the difference between Wade and Rose just by watching them, I seriously question your basketball literacy. It's not a terrible thing to be a descendent of Iverson, but don't ever compare Iverson's descendants to Jordan's.

[Pointguard]

If you just read the post, you would think the question is how hard do you hate Rose's future projection?

Rose is 22 now which is the age Wade came into the league. Wade had actually turned 23 a couple of months into the season. Rose had just turned 20 a month before his rookie season.

When Wade was at 23 greatness was thought to be a possibility. His game improved to 18pts and 5.6 rebounds in the playoffs. Everybody was like wow, if he gets a jump shot he's going to be great. It took two years before people said forget the jump shot, greatness anyhow... but the jump shot never came.

Make no mistake about it Rose at 22 was a whole lot better than Wade at 22/23. More swag, more confidence, more aggression, more production, understood seems and cracks better and already could lead a young team to the best record. Now three years into the league Wade is definitely better but Wade really got a late start. You are comparing prime Wade to Rose at 22. That's a mismatch.

IF people are making the comparison it is because they see a lot in Rose - plain and simple. They both go hard at the rim with lightening speed and there ain't much you can do about it even when you know they are coming. If you do things by age, you should be thinking Rose is going to be better than Wade. Rose has shown that he works on his game in the off season. When Rose first came into the league the floaters, pull-up jumper, tear drops, feathery touch, three pointers, middle game, foul shooting, lefty reverses were not in his repertoire like they are now. In 8 years Wade hasn't added as much to his game. And you wonder if he ever worked on his shot. When guys are as gifted as they are it's the work ethic that separates them.

[KingBeasley08]

Dwayne wade has come nowhere near this kind of production. I honestly see prime rose with a few 27/6/8 season on 48% shooting.
i know i was laughing at how everyone says hes gonna improve as if his stats are gonna multiply. no way rose averages 27 points a game on 48%. when he started averaging 25, it dropped down to 42%.

[Pointguard]

What you can observe first by looking at these numbers is Rose's 3rd year, his MVP year, was no better than Wade's second year (and actually worse if we include FG% and peripheral stats) and notably behind Wade's 3rd year. To catch up to Wade's track this year, then, he needs to be posting what Wade did in year 4 before the shoulder tear. Then in Year 5, he should be where Wade was in Year 6, because Wade's 5th year was wrecked by persisting injury, and he very likely would have made the jump in Year 5 to where he landed in Year 6.


Don't drink and post.

[97 bulls]

He isn't. Anyone who thinks he is doesn't understand the difference between Michael Jordan and Allen Iverson.

Wade is a Jordan-- an all-around, two-way player who maintains the same efficiency regardless of his offensive load. Rose is an Iverson, a player with definite areas of weakness-- significantly defense-- whose efficiency has an inverse relationship with his offensive workload.... And that doesn't ordinarily change. Players in this category don't typically experience efficiency jumps unless they reduce their shot totals (see Allen Iverson).

Moreover, players have a performance curve over their career. Here's the first the first three years of Wade's career:

Rookie: 16/4/4
Sophomomore: 24/5/7
3rd: 27/6/7

And here's Rose:

Rookie: 17/4/6
Sophomore: 21/4/8
3rd: 25/4/8

Now here's Wade's numbers over the portions of the next three years that he was healthy

4th: 29/5/8 (pre-injury, through 50 games)
6th: 30/5/7.5

What you can observe first by looking at these numbers is Rose's 3rd year, his MVP year, was no better than Wade's second year (and actually worse if we include FG% and peripheral stats) and notably behind Wade's 3rd year. To catch up to Wade's track this year, then, he needs to be posting what Wade did in year 4 before the shoulder tear. Then in Year 5, he should be where Wade was in Year 6, because Wade's 5th year was wrecked by persisting injury, and he very likely would have made the jump in Year 5 to where he landed in Year 6.

....And finally if you can't see the difference between Wade and Rose just by watching them, I seriously question your basketball literacy. It's not a terrible thing to be a descendent of Iverson, but don't ever compare Iverson's descendants to Jordan's.
The thing your missing is their ages. You can't honestly say that their age per season doesn't matter. Especially when the players in question are young.

You and the pro wade camp seem to think rose has peaked at 22. This assesment couldn't be further from the truth.

I can also tell your comparing wade in his prime to rose who isn't in his prime and won't be for another three years. And this is where roses strongest argument is. He's already comparable to wade and he's not close to his prime.

The same goes for defense. Rose will continue to improve in this area too.

Now let me ask you this...has rose peaked? Will his defense improve? And based on his first few seasons, what do you see his numbers looking like between 26-30?

[KingBeasley08]

Wade is plain better than Rose. Wade in his 3rd season was better than Rose in his 3rd season. If both played in the same season, Wade would have won MVP easily.


27/6/6 on 49% >>>> 25/8/4 on 42%

[97 bulls]

i know i was laughing at how everyone says hes gonna improve as if his stats are gonna multiply. no way rose averages 27 points a game on 48%. when he started averaging 25, it dropped down to 42%.
Why not? If he continues to improve his offense he should attain this number pretty easily. And he didn't shoot 42%. He shot 45%

[KingBeasley08]

If you just read the post, you would think the question is how hard do you hate Rose's future projection?

Rose is 22 now which is the age Wade came into the league. Wade had actually turned 23 a couple of months into the season. Rose had just turned 20 a month before his rookie season.

When Wade was at 23 greatness was thought to be a possibility. His game improved to 18pts and 5.6 rebounds in the playoffs. Everybody was like wow, if he gets a jump shot he's going to be great. It took two years before people said forget the jump shot, greatness anyhow... but the jump shot never came.

Make no mistake about it Rose at 22 was a whole lot better than Wade at 22/23. More swag, more confidence, more aggression, more production, understood seems and cracks better and already could lead a young team to the best record. Now three years into the league Wade is definitely better but Wade really got a late start. You are comparing prime Wade to Rose at 22. That's a mismatch.

IF people are making the comparison it is because they see a lot in Rose - plain and simple. They both go hard at the rim with lightening speed and there ain't much you can do about it even when you know they are coming. If you do things by age, you should be thinking Rose is going to be better than Wade. Rose has shown that he works on his game in the off season. When Rose first came into the league the floaters, pull-up jumper, tear drops, feathery touch, three pointers, middle game, foul shooting, lefty reverses were not in his repertoire like they are now. In 8 years Wade hasn't added as much to his game. And you wonder if he ever worked on his shot. When guys are as gifted as they are it's the work ethic that separates them.
work ethic?? for real brah? that only takes you so far. 3rd year wade is not "Prime Wade". rose didnt have better production or more swag than wade :facepalm. and im not even considering defense yet

this guy is incredibly biased. i doubt i can convince you anything

[97 bulls]

Wade is plain better than Rose. Wade in his 3rd season was better than Rose in his 3rd season. If both played in the same season, Wade would have won MVP easily.


27/6/6 on 49% >>>> 25/8/4 on 42%
I believe james put up similar stats this year, he didn't win. And even still, you must look at their age.

[KingBeasley08]

I believe james put up similar stats this year, he didn't win. And even still, you must look at their age.
why does age matter? they've both been in the nba the same amount of time

[97 bulls]

why does age matter? they've both been in the nba the same amount of time
Because wade is more mature. That plays a huge role in the production of a player.

[jrong]

Don't drink and post.

And which one of the sober truths I cited strikes you as an example of drunken posting? Rose's third year primary stat category production is about where Wade was in his second year, except Wade had better secondary stat numbers and shot over 49% instead of 44.5%. Then Wade's third year production was a significant step up from Rose's third year, and where Wade was in his fourth year before the injury was approximate to his production in his sixth year. So once again, which of my words did I slur?


The thing your missing is their ages. You can't honestly say that their age per season doesn't matter. Especially when the players in question are young.

You and the pro wade camp seem to think rose has peaked at 22. This assesment couldn't be further from the truth.

I can also tell your comparing wade in his prime to rose who isn't in his prime and won't be for another three years. And this is where roses strongest argument is. He's already comparable to wade and he's not close to his prime.

The same goes for defense. Rose will continue to improve in this area too.

Now let me ask you this...has rose peaked? Will his defense improve? And based on his first few seasons, what do you see his numbers looking like between 26-30?

No, Rose hasn't peaked. Yes, his defense will improve. And, yes, he will become a better all-around player than he is now, regardless of stats (Wade is definitely a better overall player now than he was in 2009, irrespective of the fact that that was his statistical peak).

But, based on the normal pattern of star players, the one area that I do not expect to see marked gains in is efficiency at high usage/ offensive responsibility levels. Players customarily reveal who they are in this respect early on in their career, and it doesn't fluctuate a lot unless their usage and offensive load levels drop.

Stars fall into one of two categories-- either they can maintain their efficiency regardless of their level of offensive responsibility or they can't. MJ, Wade, James-- their efficiency and shooting percentage remains relatively constant no matter how much offensive monopolization they have. Kobe, AI, Rose-- they don't maintain ultra-high efficiency at that level of offensive responsibility.

Now I had a prime Kobe as better than Wade or James during those years, but that's because Kobe had a significant enough compensating edge in his areas of strength-- mostly scoring skill. For me to consider Rose even worthy of comparison to the Wades and Jameses, he either has raise his efficiency to their level at the same level of usage (not to mention greatly improve as a defender and rebounder), or he has to have enough of an advantage in the things that he's good at to make up for it.

But, Rose is not a Kobe-like scorer, so what is the area in which he will "make up for it"? Passing/ playmaking? Well, first James and Wade are the two best non-PG passers in the league, so that's a tall order. And second, Rose hasn't shown any signs that he's a Paul or Nash-like passer.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Don't act like Rose is inefficient, he shot 47.5% and 48.9 in his previous seasons. His FG% went down because he added more 3 pointers to his arsenal.

[jrong]

Don't act like Rose is inefficient, he shot 47.5% and 48.9 in his previous seasons. His FG% went down because he added more 3 pointers to his arsenal.

No, his FG% went down because he was given 100% control of the offense, and his FGA rose to 20 (Wade shot 49% in 2009 on 22 FGA), the same level of offensive monopoly Wade had from 2007 - 2010 when he never shot below 47% (incidentally, Wade has NEVER shot below 47% in his career).

Rose is actually very normal; 99% of players follow the usage/efficiency rule. What is the usage/efficiency rule? Simple: as usage rises, efficiency falls.

There are, however, a very special class of players who are exceptions to this rule-- players who can maintain efficiency and FG% at any level of offensive responsibility. The best of them all is obviously Michael Jeffrey Jordan. Two other examples of this rare breed are among his descendants, Dwyane Wade and LeBron James..

ETA: Any Wade fan can tell you that he takes too many threes too. Doesn't stop him from shooting in the 50% vicinity.

[97 bulls]

And which one of the sober truths I cited strikes you as an example of drunken posting? Rose's third year primary stat category production is about where Wade was in his second year, except Wade had better secondary stat numbers and shot over 49% instead of 44.5%. Then Wade's third year production was a significant step up from Rose's third year, and where Wade was in his fourth year before the injury was approximate to his production in his sixth year. So once again, which of my words did I slur?



No, Rose hasn't peaked. Yes, his defense will improve. And, yes, he will become a better all-around player than he is now, regardless of stats (Wade is definitely a better overall player now than he was in 2009, irrespective of the fact that that was his statistical peak).

But, based on the normal pattern of star players, the one area that I do not expect to see marked gains in is efficiency at high usage/ offensive responsibility levels. Players customarily reveal who they are in this respect early on in their career, and it doesn't fluctuate a lot unless their usage and offensive load levels drop.

Stars fall into one of two categories-- either they can maintain their efficiency regardless of their level of offensive responsibility or they can't. MJ, Wade, James-- their efficiency and shooting percentage remains relatively constant no matter how much offensive monopolization they have. Kobe, AI, Rose-- they don't maintain ultra-high efficiency at that level of offensive responsibility.

Now I had a prime Kobe as better than Wade or James during those years, but that's because Kobe had a significant enough compensating edge in his areas of strength-- mostly scoring skill. For me to consider Rose even worthy of comparison to the Wades and Jameses, he either has raise his efficiency to their level at the same level of usage (not to mention greatly improve as a defender and rebounder), or he has to have enough of an advantage in the things that he's good at to make up for it.

But, Rose is not a Kobe-like scorer, so what is the area in which he will "make up for it"? Passing/ playmaking? Well, first James and Wade are the two best non-PG passers in the league, so that's a tall order. And second, Rose hasn't shown any signs that he's a Paul or Nash-like passer.
Your still not getting it. You saying rose isn't efficient couldn't be further from the truth. His FG% went down due to him taking more threes. I will be the first to admit that if he continues to shoot mid 40s and 33% on threes then he should cut back on the threes and it won't be an excuse. But due to thhe fact that he was at 48 and 49% the previous seasons, I don't see that as being a problem. Hell even if he shoots 46% and 38% on 3s taking 5 to 6 a games that'll be good. I also see him shooting more fts a game. He was at 6-7 last year. I see him being one of the higher ranked players in the league when it comes to FT attempts. That alone will get him an xtra 2 pts per right there.

[97 bulls]

No, his FG% went down because he was given 100% control of the offense, and his FGA rose to 20 (Wade shot 49% in 2009 on 22 FGA), the same level of offensive monopoly Wade had from 2007 - 2010 when he never shot below 47% (incidentally, Wade has NEVER shot below 47% in his career).

Rose is actually very normal; 99% of players follow the usage/efficiency rule. What is the usage/efficiency rule? Simple: as usage rises, efficiency falls.

There are, however, a very special class of players who are exceptions to this rule-- players who can maintain efficiency and FG% at any level of offensive responsibility. The best of them all is obviously Michael Jeffrey Jordan. Two other examples of this rare breed are among his descendants, Dwyane Wade and LeBron James..

ETA: Any Wade fan can tell you that he takes too many threes too. Doesn't stop him from shooting in the 50% vicinity.
Your just trying to win an argument. Rose has always had free reign to do what he wants. And even if wade takes to many 3s (I believe he takes about three per game) rose is almost double that with 5 per game.

[Jacks3]

Stars fall into one of two categories-- either they can maintain their efficiency regardless of their level of offensive responsibility or they can't. MJ, Wade, James-- their efficiency and shooting percentage remains relatively constant no matter how much offensive monopolization they have. Kobe, AI, Rose-- they don't maintain ultra-high efficiency at that level of offensive responsibility.

.
:roll:

Kobe doesn't maintain high efficiency at high monopolization?? Did you miss that 32 PPG/58% TS season? That 35.4 PPG/56% TS season? 28.3 PPG/58% TS season?

lol @ lumping Kobe with AI/Rose when he's vastly more efficient.

You realize prime Kobe had TS% numbers equal to Wade's right?

:roll:

[D-Wade316]

97 Bulls, TheLogo, nathanjizzle, Go Getter = IDIOTS, IMBECILE, STUPID, RETARD, MORON, CLOWN, DELUSIONAL

Are you people listening to me? Yeah that's right. I'm straight up mocking you in the face!

[D-Wade316]

Rose will never be better than Wade. Deal with it. As Wade ages, he'll take less shots which means his efficiency will increase(just like this year). What happened to Rose's numbers when he took more shots? Wade is every bit as good as a passer as Rose. Wade's APG dropped drastically this year because of Bron and Bosh. When Wade was leading Miami by himself he averaged 6.8/6.7/7.5/6.9/7.5/6.5 from his 2nd year to his 7th year.Lets not even talk about defense. Wade completely blows Rose in that category. Comparing their first 3 years, I can never see Rose getting any better than what Wade is now.

[97 bulls]

97 Bulls, TheLogo, nathanjizzle, Go Getter, jrong = IDIOTS, IMBECILE, STUPID, RETARD, MORON, CLOWN

Are you people listening to me? Yeah that's right. I'm straight up mocking you in the face!
Lol ouch. I guess you fixed our little red wagon. And I believe jrong is on your side.

[NugzHeat3]

My man jrong delivering the good stuff. :applause:

Second year Wade is better than Rose has been to this point.

[97 bulls]

Rose will never be better than Wade. Deal with it. As Wade ages, he'll take less shots which means his efficiency will increase(just like this year). What happened to Rose's numbers when he took more shots? Wade is every bit as good as a passer as Rose. Wade's APG dropped drastically this year because of Bron and Bosh. When Wade was leading Miami by himself he averaged 6.8/6.7/7.5/6.9/7.5/6.5 from his 2nd year to his 7th year.Lets not even talk about defense. Wade completely blows Rose in that category. Comparing their first 3 years, I can never see Rose getting any better than what Wade is now.
Hell take less shots and his production will decrease. I think we've seen the best from dwayne wade. He's a great player. But I see rose overtaking him. If he leads the bulls to a championship and gets a finals mvp, that will more than trump wades accomplishments. Which is the one championship, the finals mvp and the scoring title. Not to mention the blunders, the 04 olympics, the playoffs vs the bulls where kirk hinrich shut wade down, loosing to an injury plagued mavs. Hopefully rose won't have to endure similar embarasments.

[D-Wade316]

Hell take less shots and his production will decrease. I think we've seen the best from dwayne wade. He's a great player. But I see rose overtaking him. If he leads the bulls to a championship and gets a finals mvp, that will more than trump wades accomplishments. Which is the one championship, the finals mvp and the scoring title. Not to mention the blunders, the 04 olympics, the playoffs vs the bulls where kirk hinrich shut wade down, loosing to an injury plagued mavs. Hopefully rose won't have to endure similar embarasments.
We'll see. I can't predict Rose's numbers next year. I expect him to take the same amount of shots next year. Regarding his efficiency, I really don't know. But from his track record, he'll never be as good as Wade.

Rose will not overtake him. Deal with it.
Wade's 2nd year > Rose's 3rd year.
Wade's 08-09 season and 06 Playoffs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any of Rose's season or playoffs performances.

How stupid for not stating that Wade forced himself to play in the 07 playoffs coming from a crippling injury. You are indeed stupid.

Deal with it.

[97 bulls]

We'll see. I can't predict Rose's numbers next year. I expect him to take the same amount of shots next year. Regarding his efficiency, I really don't know. But from his track record, he'll never be as good as Wade.

Rose will not overtake him. Deal with it.
Wade's 2nd year > Rose's 3rd year.
Wade's 08-09 season and 06 Playoffs >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Any of Rose's season or playoffs performances.

How stupid for not stating that Wade forced himself to play in the 07 playoffs coming from a crippling injury. You are indeed stupid.

Deal with it.
But he has shot 47, 49, ans then 45%. His track record is pretty good. Why are you acting as if he's routinely shooting in the low 40s? I guarantee if wade took as many threes as rose, his FG% numbers would be even lower than rose.

And I'm positive that rose will shoot no lower than 47% this comming season...that is if we have a season. And still avg 24 to 25 ppg.

The only thing wade has done that I don't see rose doing is winning a scorin title. Other than that, I think rose will accomplish more than wade.

[Celtics4ever]

I don't even like Derrick Rose, but he will be better than Wade ever was. Wade had too many injuries in his career.

[eliteballer]

Rose is younger than Wade was in his 3rd year, more athletic than Wade was and a better shooter than he ever will be.

However Wade's size advantage, hand size, and wingspan is a bit of an equalizer. Rose can be better, but not by a really noticeable difference.

[Pointguard]

But, Rose is not a Kobe-like scorer, so what is the area in which he will "make up for it"? Passing/ playmaking? Well, first James and Wade are the two best non-PG passers in the league, so that's a tall order. And second, Rose hasn't shown any signs that he's a Paul or Nash-like passer.

Nash at Rose's age was averaging 2.1 assist per game. Stockton 5.1. Rajon Rondo right about .5 on Rose. Once these guys understood the system they were working in, they made huge leaps in their assist game. Same with Kidd and Deron Williams.

[Pointguard]

work ethic?? for real brah? that only takes you so far. 3rd year wade is not "Prime Wade". rose didnt have better production or more swag than wade :facepalm. and im not even considering defense yet

this guy is incredibly biased. i doubt i can convince you anything
If Wade had worked on his game and added longer range, a better touch around the hoop, better foul shooting, a better middle game you think we would be having this discussion? We would be comparing him to Jordan.

[97 bulls]

If Wade had worked on his game and added longer range, a better touch around the hoop, better foul shooting, a better middle game you think we would be having this discussion? We would be comparing him to Jordan.
Exactly.

[Sarcastic]

I don't even like Derrick Rose, but he will be better than Wade ever was. Wade had too many injuries in his career.

You know for a fact that Rose will never get injured? It's not like Wade ever missed a whole season.

[Pointguard]

:roll:

Kobe doesn't maintain high efficiency at high monopolization?? Did you miss that 32 PPG/58% TS season? That 35.4 PPG/56% TS season? 28.3 PPG/58% TS season?

lol @ lumping Kobe with AI/Rose when he's vastly more efficient.

:roll:

I am sure Rose had a higher TS than Kobe last year. At 22 he was light years better. Before this year, I don't even have to look, I know Kobe never reached Rose's FG% of either of Rose's first two years. Maybe you were making another reference?

[Celtics4ever]

If Wade had worked on his game and added longer range, a better touch around the hoop, better foul shooting, a better middle game you think we would be having this discussion? We would be comparing him to Jordan.

Pretty much what I think. Rose has that hard work ethic that Wade lacks. I heard he party's and has sex parties at his mansion all summer long( Not a bad thing at all) while Rose is working on his game.

[eliteballer]

I am sure Rose had a higher TS than Kobe last year. At 22 he was light years better.


LOL:roll:

[Celtics4ever]

You know for a fact that Rose will never get injured? It's not like Wade ever missed a whole season.

Wade has been injury prone his whole career.

[Sarcastic]

Wade has been injury prone his whole career.

No he hasn't. He had 3 seasons in which he was hurt, but he still played over 50 games in each. Derrick Rose can easily get injured next year. My point is, you have no idea and you can't use that as an excuse.

[Jacks3]

[QUOTE=Pointguard]I am sure Rose had a higher TS than Kobe last
year.
I'm talking about Prime Kobe, who had TS% numbers at 58%. lol @ that idiot acting like Wade is on another level in terms of efficiency. lol @ lumping Kobe with Rose/Iverson.

At 22 he was light years better.
:oldlol:
Kobe at 22 was putting up 29/6/5/2/55.2% TS. And was the top defender at SG.

Not sure if serious...

Before this year, I don't even have to look, I know Kobe never reached Rose's FG% of either of Rose's first two years. Maybe you were making another reference?
FG%? :oldlol:

Prime/peak Kobe was much more efficient. His 58% TS in 07 and 08 destroys Rose in any year. :facepalm

[Pointguard]

Exactly.

I don't know if you were around but do you remember when people were saying Rose doesn't have a jump shot. Next thing you knew Rose was bombs away. Then they said he doesn't get to the line enough. Next thing you know Rose was getting to the line. I never seen a guy answer so many criticisms of his game in one year. He wasn't getting Wade or Dirk treatment from the refs but it wasn't on the account that he wasn't getting to the rim much more than they were.

[Celtics4ever]

No he hasn't. He had 3 seasons in which he was hurt, but he still played over 50 games in each. Derrick Rose can easily get injured next year. My point is, you have no idea and you can't use that as an excuse.

My point is if Wade wasn't injured as much, he would have been better because he is taller and more lengthy, but Rose also has a better work ethic. But the way Rose is developing his game, he is on pace to have a better career, but yeah unless he has a injury filled career too.

[detroitdogg]

If Wade had worked on his game and added longer range, a better touch around the hoop, better foul shooting, a better middle game you think we would be having this discussion? We would be comparing him to Jordan.
SMH, you just simply dont know what the fukk you are talking about. Wades jumper is fine, he just does not settle for them, when he does take them its usually a forced shot due to the clock and things like that, whenever Wade actually needs to become a above average shooter than im sure that he will, but as long as he can stillget to the rack and finish better than anyone else in the league (including Rose) at the age of 29, why is it necessary. The year he was injured and had a lack of explosiveness his jumper was above average cause he needed to take those shots, Wade NEVER SETTLES FOR PULL UPS, NEVER, he will force some 3's, but he never settles once he gets a step on the defender cause its better to get all the way to the rack.

SMH at Wade needing better touch around the rim, he has by far the best touch in the league and the most finishing moves, are you fukkin retarded, he has never shot under 68% in the paint in his career, Rose has not ever shot over 56, so get the fukk outta here with that bullshyt, in Wades worse season he was still shooting 68% in the paint bruh.

[Pointguard]

[QUOTE]
Kobe at 22 was putting up 29/6/5/2/55.2% TS. And was the top defender at SG.

Not sure if serious...
Ok its practically identical to Roses, not vastly better.


FG%? :oldlol:

Prime/peak Kobe was much more efficient. His 58% TS in 07 and 08 destroys Rose in any year. :facepalm

You are taking his best year in 15 years and it barely beats Rose best in three years? When Rose starts getting calls that's totally crushed. If Rose shot like he did the previous season it would have been hardcore crushed last year. Are you serious? Rose shot 489 in only his second year. Kobe's best year in 15 chances was 20 percentage points below that.

[97 bulls]

I don't know if you were around but do you remember when people were saying Rose doesn't have a jump shot. Next thing you knew Rose was bombs away. Then they said he doesn't get to the line enough. Next thing you know Rose was getting to the line. I never seen a guy answer so many criticisms of his game in one year. He wasn't getting Wade or Dirk treatment from the refs but it wasn't on the account that he wasn't getting to the rim much more than they were.
I do remember this. He's improved a portion of his game every year. Especially the parts he most criticised for. And I agree I just havnt seen wade maximze his talents as much as he could. Like I said earlier, he went from having no J to a suspect one. Roses jumpshot is already on wades level. I think he attacks the basket in a similar way to wade, and his three point range has passed wade. Not to mwntion his FT shooting.


Wades defense is better. But I'm sure that with thibs and pippen, roses defense will improve.

[97 bulls]

My point is if Wade wasn't injured as much, he would have been better because he is taller and more lengthy, but Rose also has a better work ethic. But the way Rose is developing his game, he is on pace to have a better career, but yeah unless he has a injury filled career too.
There's no need to try to clarify your statement. Your 100% correct. His inability to stay injury free is a blemish. Rose has been more durable so far knock on wood.

[Jacks3]

Ok its practically identical to Roses, not vastly better.
Actually, it is vastly better. 4 extra PPG on better TS% is a huge difference.

29 PPG/55.2% TS>>>25 PPG/54.9% TS

Kobe also did it in a tougher league without the new rules, which is why his TS% relative to league average is quite a bit higher as well.


You are taking his best year in 15 years and it barely beats Rose best in three years?
Barely? His 58% TS crushes Rose's 54.9%. And he's doing it on MUCH higher volume.

Barely? :roll:

When Rose starts getting calls that's totally crushed. If Rose shot like he did the previous season it would have been hardcore crushed last year. Are you serious? Rose shot 489 in only his second year. Kobe's best year in 15 chances was 20 percentage points below that.
Why do you keep bringing up FG% when the discussion is about TS%?

Kobe's prime years crushes Rose in any year.

[detroitdogg]

I do remember this. He's improved a portion of his game every year. Especially the parts he most criticised for. And I agree I just havnt seen wade maximze his talents as much as he could. Like I said earlier, he went from having no J to a suspect one. Roses jumpshot is already on wades level. I think he attacks the basket in a similar way to wade, and his three point range has passed wade. Not to mwntion his FT shooting.


Wades defense is better. But I'm sure that with thibs and pippen, roses defense will improve.
You now that Wade has 5 seasons shytting on Roses 3rd year, you know that Miami intentionally wasted 3 years of Wades career to get Lebron and Bosh, do you have any fukkin idea what you are talking about. How the fukk did he not maximize his talents, because he does not have a Kobe like jumper, even at 29 when athletically he has not slowed down one bit. Rose will not be nowhere near as quick, fast and athletic at 29 as Wade is at 29, not even MJ was getting to the paint as much as Wade at 29, by then Mike was a master at the pull up. OK, yeah, it would be great for Wade to master his jumper, but why the fukk settle for a jumper when you can get to the rack literally whenever you want.

[LakersFan626]

I'm not a Bulls fan, first of all. And you're telling me 37/5/5 with 3 steals 1.5 Blocks per game, on 48.2 % shooting, 29.8 PER is worse than 25/8/4 with 1 steal, .6 blocks, on 44.5% shooting and a 23.5 PER? LOL Rose didn't even deserve the MVP. GTFO.

62-20 record (best in the NBA) with Boozer and Deng taking turns as the second option. If that's not deserving of the MVP I don't know what is. Field goal percentage and efficiency can be VERY overrated sometimes.

[97 bulls]

You now that Wade has 5 seasons shytting on Roses 3rd year, you know that Miami intentionally wasted 3 years of Wades career to get Lebron and Bosh, do you have any fukkin idea what you are talking about. How the fukk did he not maximize his talents, because he does not have a Kobe like jumper, even at 29 when athletically he has not slowed down one bit. Rose will not be nowhere near as quick, fast and athletic at 29 as Wade is at 29, not even MJ was getting to the paint as much as Wade at 29, by then Mike was a master at the pull up. OK, yeah, it would be great for Wade to master his jumper, but why the fukk settle for a jumper when you can get to the rack literally whenever you want.
First of all wade at 29 did not attack the basket as well as jordan. Get that out your head. I have a feeling yuor too young to remember jordan at 29.

For the third time. It seems like your misunderstanding the question. Is rose on pace to pass wade. Not has he passed wade. And what sad is that this is your thread

You comparing wades 5 best seasons to roses 3 year career is crazy. Miami intentionally wasting wades career is even more stupid..... and then to land james and bosh? Come on. What's in the air in detroit?

[NugzHeat3]

First of all wade at 29 did not attack the basket as well as jordan. Get that out your head. I have a feeling yuor too young to remember jordan at 29.

For the third time. It seems like your misunderstanding the question. Is rose on pace to pass wade. Not has he passed wade. And what sad is that this is your thread

You comparing wades 5 best seasons to roses 3 year career is crazy. Miami intentionally wasting wades career is even more stupid..... and then to land james and bosh? Come on. What's in the air in detroit?
:oldlol: :oldlol:

I don't know if this guy is delusional or just flatout clueless.

[detroitdogg]

First of all wade at 29 did not attack the basket as well as jordan. Get that out your head. I have a feeling yuor too young to remember jordan at 29.

For the third time. It seems like your misunderstanding the question. Is rose on pace to pass wade. Not has he passed wade. And what sad is that this is your thread

You comparing wades 5 best seasons to roses 3 year career is crazy. Miami intentionally wasting wades career is even more stupid..... and then to land james and bosh? Come on. What's in the air in detroit?
Dude, nothing, and I mean absolutley nothing but age shows any indication that he is on pace to be better, NOTHING. I said before and ill say it again, years in the league means more than age, a lot more to be honest. If Wade was 19 in 03 his production would have still been the same, if Rose was 21 his rookie year his production would still have been the same. Age aint nothing but a number, but experience is something you can base things off of. I could see if Rose came straight out of HS, then age and experience plays a different role, but if a nygga like Rudy Gay came out at 21 it woulda made no difference, 21 woulda made no difference for OJ Mayo, its not as big of a deal as yall are making it out to be.

[detroitdogg]

First of all wade at 29 did not attack the basket as well as jordan. Get that out your head. I have a feeling yuor too young to remember jordan at 29.

For the third time. It seems like your misunderstanding the question. Is rose on pace to pass wade. Not has he passed wade. And what sad is that this is your thread

You comparing wades 5 best seasons to roses 3 year career is crazy. Miami intentionally wasting wades career is even more stupid..... and then to land james and bosh? Come on. What's in the air in detroit?
And no, I did not compare Wades 5 best seasons to Roses 3, I compared 5 of D Wades seasons to Roses best season, and Rose loses on all. So how in the fukk is he on pace, please tell me without the biased bullshyt.

[Pointguard]

SMH, you just simply dont know what the fukk you are talking about. Wades jumper is fine, he just does not settle for them, when he does take them its usually a forced shot due to the clock and things like that, whenever Wade actually needs to become a above average shooter than im sure that he will, but as long as he can stillget to the rack and finish better than anyone else in the league (including Rose) at the age of 29, why is it necessary. The year he was injured and had a lack of explosiveness his jumper was above average cause he needed to take those shots, Wade NEVER SETTLES FOR PULL UPS, NEVER, he will force some 3's, but he never settles once he gets a step on the defender cause its better to get all the way to the rack.

SMH at Wade needing better touch around the rim, he has by far the best touch in the league and the most finishing moves, are you fukkin retarded, he has never shot under 68% in the paint in his career, Rose has not ever shot over 56, so get the fukk outta here with that bullshyt, in Wades worse season he was still shooting 68% in the paint bruh.

Slow down and gather yourself homes.

Wade is a great slasher, but he isn't on the level of a young MJ. Why do you think MJ developed a shot? You don't think its necessary? Wade can't take hits like Iverson and you are kidding yourself if you believe that. You think Kobe, who was much healthier than Wade, was still going at the rim three years ago the way he was seven years ago. You don't think a jump shot gives Wade more room to operate? If Wade's game was tighter from 7 feet out, he definitely makes top ten GOAT.

So Right now it is definitely the difference between greatness and being very good. Its going to be hard for him to be getting MVP's now. If his game was more economical, he wouldn't be getting winded. Rose totally exasperated him. Wade wasn't down for forays to the hoop at the end of those games. Wade's oponents know where he needs to go to be comfortable now. He doesn't throw different looks. You get by on speed and strength in your prime, and skill never hurts. You use a real cheap measuring stick for Wade because I think he could have been the best in this generation.

No offense but Kobe, Lebron and Rose stole MVP's from him because they worked harder on their games. Rose didn't have a jump shot before the season and Kobe worked hard on his. Wade was never definitively the best in the game (I have him as the best player this year too). There was always somebody with a jumpshot stealing his thunder but you like it when your boy underachieves and ends up on the short end of the stick aparently. He's got two years max on that first step and may have never complimented it with a jump shot. Great years down the drain.

[97 bulls]

Dude, nothing, and I mean absolutley nothing but age shows any indication that he is on pace to be better, NOTHING. I said before and ill say it again, years in the league means more than age, a lot more to be honest. If Wade was 19 in 03 his production would have still been the same, if Rose was 21 his rookie year his production would still have been the same. Age aint nothing but a number, but experience is something you can base things off of. I could see if Rose came straight out of HS, then age and experience plays a different role, but if a nygga like Rudy Gay came out at 21 it woulda made no difference, 21 woulda made no difference for OJ Mayo, its not as big of a deal as yall are making it out to be.
No..... you don't want rose to be better than wade. That's the problem. And there's nothing really anyone can say that's gonna change your mind. Rose is just gonna have to prove you wrong.

Just like he did with the people that said he didn't have a jumpshot

Or when people said he couldn't shoot the three

Or when people say he couldn't win mvp.

He's already accomplished more than wade on a personal level. Just too bad he didn't have shaq and 3 refs this past year. Or he'd probably have a championship and finals mvp too

[97 bulls]

Slow down and gather yourself homes.

Wade is a great slasher, but he isn't on the level of a young MJ. Why do you think MJ developed a shot? You don't think its necessary? Wade can't take hits like Iverson and you are kidding yourself if you believe that. You think Kobe, who was much healthier than Wade, was still going at the rim three years ago the way he was seven years ago. You don't think a jump shot gives Wade more room to operate? If Wade's game was tighter from 7 feet out, he definitely makes top ten GOAT.

So Right now it is definitely the difference between greatness and being very good. Its going to be hard for him to be getting MVP's now. If his game was more economical, he wouldn't be getting winded. Rose totally exasperated him. Wade wasn't down for forays to the hoop at the end of those games. Wade's oponents know where he needs to go to be comfortable now. He doesn't throw different looks. You get by on speed and strength in your prime, and skill never hurts. You use a real cheap measuring stick for Wade because I think he could have been the best in this generation.

No offense but Kobe, Lebron and Rose stole MVP's from him because they worked harder on their games. Rose didn't have a jump shot before the season and Kobe worked hard on his. Wade was never definitively the best in the game (I have him as the best player this year too). There was always somebody with a jumpshot stealing his thunder but you like it when your boy underachieves and ends up on the short end of the stick aparently. He's got two years max on that first step and may have never complimented it with a jump shot. Great years down the drain.
Again, exactly.

[detroitdogg]

Slow down and gather yourself homes.

Wade is a great slasher, but he isn't on the level of a young MJ. Why do you think MJ developed a shot? You don't think its necessary? Wade can't take hits like Iverson and you are kidding yourself if you believe that. You think Kobe, who was much healthier than Wade, was still going at the rim three years ago the way he was seven years ago. You don't think a jump shot gives Wade more room to operate? If Wade's game was tighter from 7 feet out, he definitely makes top ten GOAT.

So Right now it is definitely the difference between greatness and being very good. Its going to be hard for him to be getting MVP's now. If his game was more economical, he wouldn't be getting winded. Rose totally exasperated him. Wade wasn't down for forays to the hoop at the end of those games. Wade's oponents know where he needs to go to be comfortable now. He doesn't throw different looks. You get by on speed and strength in your prime, and skill never hurts. You use a real cheap measuring stick for Wade because I think he could have been the best in this generation.

No offense but Kobe, Lebron and Rose stole MVP's from him because they worked harder on their games. Rose didn't have a jump shot before the season and Kobe worked hard on his. Wade was never definitively the best in the game (I have him as the best player this year too). There was always somebody with a jumpshot stealing his thunder but you like it when your boy underachieves and ends up on the short end of the stick aparently. He's got two years max on that first step and may have never complimented it with a jump shot. Great years down the drain.You know he is also the best guard in the league in the post right, oh, I guess you didnt due to your recent post, do you want to go and look at numbers, its not Wades fault that coach Spo rarely uses him down there, especially when he scores at something like a 58% rate, its not Wades fault that coach Spo would rather give Bron the ball in the post cause of his size not even caring that Bron cant do anything scoring wise from the post.

Watch the offs, Wade dominated in the post early every game, but no, lets give it to Lebron down there for whatever fukkin reason. Me personally, if im coaching Wade then im posting him up 3-4 times a quarter, but what would you know, he does not even get the rock down there 3 times per game SMH. If you actually WATCH basketball, you would know that Wade has been a great post player his whole career, he even shoots his jumper better when it comes from a back to basket position. I completely expect Wade to become a dominant post player whenever his athleticism starts to decline, but by the looks of things, thats not happening no time soon, maybe it will take some type of decline for coach Spo dumbass to realize that he should be down there consistantly.

[Pointguard]

Actually, it is vastly better. 4 extra PPG on better TS% is a huge difference.

29 PPG/55.2% TS>>>25 PPG/54.9% TS

Kobe also did it in a tougher league without the new rules, which is why his TS% relative to league average is quite a bit higher as well.

LOL, if Rose was getting superstar calls and playing with the MDE who was the guy they doubled, it wasn't Kobe, you have to factor that in as well. Don't you. How the hell does Kobe shoot 20 percentage points less than FG% wise than a guy that was the team focus???


Barely? His 58% TS crushes Rose's 54.9%. And he's doing it on MUCH higher volume.
This is absolutely why TS is a crap stat. This was Rose's best year in TS and he was far less efficient than the previous year. The only thing that increased was his volume. Higher volume seemingly made it easier on TS and it has little to do with being efficient.


Why do you keep bringing up FG% when the discussion is about TS%?
Kobe's prime years crushes Rose in any year.
LOL, you think in your head that 15 years, and like seven with Shaq, is a fair comparison to 3 years at the beginning of a career?

[eliteballer]

Shaq was saying Kobe was the best player in the league and Barkley was saying he was better than Jordan in those 01 playoffs. It's really not close.

[Pointguard]

Watch the offs, Wade dominated in the post early every game, but no, lets give it to Lebron down there for whatever fukkin reason. Me personally, if im coaching Wade then im posting him up 3-4 times a quarter, but what would you know, he does not even get the rock down there 3 times per game SMH. If you actually WATCH basketball, you would know that Wade has been a great post player his whole career, he even shoots his jumper better when it comes from a back to basket position. I completely expect Wade to become a dominant post player whenever his athleticism starts to decline, but by the looks of things, thats not happening no time soon, maybe it will take some type of decline for coach Spo dumbass to realize that he should be down there consistantly.

I watch, I played, I coach.
A jumpshot won't hurt his game. I know he can post exceptionally well. But like I said. Wade should have separation from everybody in the league except Lebron. I think he naturally progressed his game but I don't think he improved his skills the way others have.

I too don't like Spo on offense at all like you do. I have Wade as the best player this year but it wasn't definitive.

[amfirst]

Rose is already better than Wade. Wade is just lucky to have LeBron and Bosh. Imagine Rose vs. Wade on a equal team. Rose wins hands down, we already seen Rose burn Wade like nothing when LeBron is not playing.

[Pointguard]

Shaq was saying Kobe was the best player in the league and Barkley was saying he was better than Jordan in those 01 playoffs. It's really not close.
Kobe is great no doubt - a top ten GOAT. I just never saw him as very efficient.

[eliteballer]

I watch, I played, I coach.
A jumpshot won't hurt his game. I know he can post exceptionally well. But like I said. Wade should have separation from everybody in the league except Lebron. I think he naturally progressed his game but I don't think he improved his skills the way others have.

I too don't like Spo on offense at all like you do. I have Wade as the best player this year but it wasn't definitive.

Theres no way your old enough to have coached to be saying stuff like "22 year old Rose is light years better than 22 year old Kobe"

[detroitdogg]

Rose is already better than Wade. Wade is just lucky to have LeBron and Bosh. Imagine Rose vs. Wade on a equal team. Rose wins hands down, we already seen Rose burn Wade like nothing when LeBron is not playing.
Wade scored 55, got a steal, and hit a game winning halfcourt buzzer beater against Rose with equal teams. Nice try though lol

[8BeastlyXOIAD]

Wade scored 55, got a steal, and hit a game winning halfcourt buzzer beater against Rose with equal teams. Nice try though lol

Rose was just a rookie

[detroitdogg]

I watch, I played, I coach.
A jumpshot won't hurt his game. I know he can post exceptionally well. But like I said. Wade should have separation from everybody in the league except Lebron. I think he naturally progressed his game but I don't think he improved his skills the way others have.

I too don't like Spo on offense at all like you do. I have Wade as the best player this year but it wasn't definitive.
Oh yeah, fasho, a "consistant" jumper would not hurt at all, but its so much more entertaining watching him get to the basket and finish so beautifully continuously. He has bout 7 different finishing moves at the basket alone, and these moves are before the shot, add the floater, the contact layups, the up and unders, ect, and you see why its easy to love dudes game dispite the minor jumpshot flaw. And even then, who knows, Wades biggest jumpshooting problem is the fact that he does not even try to take pull ups, not that he misses a lot, I would not expect a high percentage if most of them are bailouts, and he is still in the 40% range, so its not bad at all.

[detroitdogg]

Rose was just a rookie
Wade outplayed him in the season without Lebron also, so your argument is bullshyt

[Pointguard]

Oh yeah, fasho, a "consistant" jumper would not hurt at all, but its so much more entertaining watching him get to the basket and finish so beautifully continuously. He has bout 7 different finishing moves at the basket alone, and these moves are before the shot, add the floater, the contact layups, the up and unders, ect, and you see why its easy to love dudes game dispite the minor jumpshot flaw. And even then, who knows, Wades biggest jumpshooting problem is the fact that he does not even try to take pull ups, not that he misses a lot, I would not expect a high percentage if most of them are bailouts, and he is still in the 40% range, so its not bad at all.
Actually he might be too strong to make good on pull ups. He will usually just go hard at the rim and get the foul anyway. The guy is brutal and super exciting. I hope he prolongs his career tho. Avoid the contact here and there.

[Jacks3]

LOL, if Rose was getting superstar calls and playing with the MDE who was the guy they doubled, it wasn't Kobe, you have to factor that in as well. Don't you. How the hell does Kobe shoot 20 percentage points less than FG% wise than a guy that was the team focus???
Kobe's TS% isn't affected by Shaq in any way,shape,or form. I can't believe idiots still use the Shaq excuse when his efficiency has actually increased without Shaq .

So yeah, 29 PPG/55.2% TS>>>25 PPG/54.9% TS. Stop with the lame-ass excuses.

This is absolutely why TS is a crap stat. This was Rose's best year in TS and he was far less efficient than the previous year. The only thing that increased was his volume. Higher volume seemingly made it easier on TS and it has little to do with being efficient.

Wrong. TS% is a great stat. Far better than FG%. The reason his TS% was much higher is because he became much better at shooting FT's AND much better at shooting threes. And he did both at considerably higher volume than his previous years. It makes perfect sense.

LOL, you think in your head that 15 years, and like seven with Shaq, is a fair comparison to 3 years at the beginning of a career?
Why do you keep brining up Shaq when his most efficient years have come without him? :oldlol:

The fact is Prime Kobe was vastly more efficient than current Rose, which is why jrong's post was such a joke. Lumping Kobe in with Rose/Iverson is is just silly considering he was just as efficient as Wade in his prime....

Certainly much more efficient than Iverson/Rose.

[Jacks3]

Oh,and 01 Kobe>>>2011 Rose.

[Ikill]

SMH, you just simply dont know what the fukk you are talking about. Wades jumper is fine, he just does not settle for them, when he does take them its usually a forced shot due to the clock and things like that, whenever Wade actually needs to become a above average shooter than im sure that he will, but as long as he can stillget to the rack and finish better than anyone else in the league (including Rose) at the age of 29, why is it necessary. The year he was injured and had a lack of explosiveness his jumper was above average cause he needed to take those shots, Wade NEVER SETTLES FOR PULL UPS, NEVER, he will force some 3's, but he never settles once he gets a step on the defender cause its better to get all the way to the rack.

SMH at Wade needing better touch around the rim, he has by far the best touch in the league and the most finishing moves, are you fukkin retarded, he has never shot under 68% in the paint in his career, Rose has not ever shot over 56, so get the fukk outta here with that bullshyt, in Wades worse season he was still shooting 68% in the paint bruh.
Wade has a great jumpshot but like you said he only shoots it when he needs to he always hits it during the playoffs and thats whats important.

[Ikill]

Rose is younger than Wade was in his 3rd year, more athletic than Wade was and a better shooter than he ever will be.

However Wade's size advantage, hand size, and wingspan is a bit of an equalizer. Rose can be better, but not by a really noticeable difference.
I'm not sure Rose is more athletic young Wade was a freak every point he scored was a highlight play there close. In terms of shooting yeah Rose worked harder on his shot than young Wade but when he actually started to shoot the ball he was a much better shooter than Rose.

[oolalaa]

:roll:

Kobe doesn't maintain high efficiency at high monopolization?? Did you miss that 32 PPG/58% TS season? That 35.4 PPG/56% TS season? 28.3 PPG/58% TS season?

lol @ lumping Kobe with AI/Rose when he's vastly more efficient.

You realize prime Kobe had TS% numbers equal to Wade's right?

:roll:

:lol at using TS% with regards to 'high monopolization'.

you should be using efg% to work out how efficient someone is from the floor.

kobe at 22 years old and 5 seasons in the league = 25.1 ppg/19.5 fga (per 36 min) on .484 efg%.

rose at 22 years old and 3 seasons in the league = 24.1 ppg/19 fga (per 36 min) on .485 efg%.

kobe in the seasons you used (his prime) = .502 .503 .502 efg%.

rose in his prime = ?

:facepalm at you thinking kobe is vastly more efficient.

[Vragrant]

He's already accomplished more than wade on a personal level. Just too bad he didn't have shaq and 3 refs this past year. Or he'd probably have a championship and finals mvp too

Huh? Rose was very underwhelming during the playoffs. Inefficient shooting, borderline chucking and ballhogging. Please don't compare his mediocre (and thats being nice) playoff run with Wades' legendary championship run. Wades' never shot 35% for a playoff series, even when he came back from an injured shoulder.

Come to think of it, Wades' never played as bad in playoffs (with the exception of 07 when he came back from a rehabbed torn shoulder), as Rose did this year.

[Jacks3]

:lol at using TS% with regards to 'high monopolization'.

you should be using efg% to work out how efficient someone is from the floor.


Why would I use eFG% when TS% is the better stat by far?

LOL @ prime/peak Kobe not being vastly more efficient.

58% TS>>55% TS. :roll:

[Ikill]

Why would I use eFG% when TS% is the better stat by far?

LOL @ prime/peak Kobe not being vastly more efficient.

58% TS>>55% TS. :roll:
Why are you talking about Kobe :facepalm

[Vragrant]

Why are you talking about Kobe :facepalm

He can't help it:oldlol:

[Jacks3]

Maybe you should read the previous pages, moron. :oldlol:

[Pointguard]

Kobe's TS% isn't affected by Shaq in any way,shape,or form. I can't believe idiots still use the Shaq excuse when his efficiency has actually increased without Shaq .

If you were smart that would be your clue as to how weak the stat is. Its a dumb stat. Don't you get it. If Kobe takes bad shots, shows bad judgement, takes too many threes, he can hide it all behind his free throw shooting. Kobe would have to be just plain dumb and backward if he couldn't be more efficient with the biggest offesnive distraction in the game ever. What was it? Was he so stupid he didn't know how to capitalize on Shaq presence? Or is that the stat is backward??? Since I like Kobe I'll say its the latter.


So yeah, 29 PPG/55.2% TS>>>25 PPG/54.9% TS. Stop with the lame-ass excuses.
In your world you don't do balanced equations. Or is it that you just can't handle it. If you are not comparing guys with similiar type experience it's not fair. Most good players get incemently better in TS. So next year Derek Rose who improved at least 15 points each year - DESPITE obviously being less efficient last year, he's almost guaranteed to pass Kobe's best mark pretty easily when he starts getting calls, and a better running offense. The funniest thing is that Rose got better 15 points each year and you act like 3 points is huge difference. And your lame math should know that 4 years compared to 14 is a great disparity to begin with.

Lebron averaged like 60 TS over the last two years. Is he Kobe's God. Heck he has like 6 years better than Kobe's best and he's only played 8 years. Its such a crummy stat you would believe Lebron is a better shooter than Kobe.



Wrong. TS% is a great stat. Far better than FG%. The reason his TS% was much higher is because he became much better at shooting FT's AND much better at shooting threes. And he did both at considerably higher volume than his previous years. It makes perfect sense.

Sorry, whenever a stat hides a weakness - its a bad stat - it means the stat has a weakness. FG% is a raw stat - more precise, accurate and pure. It's simple mathematics. Combination stats can only help interpret raw stats in SOME cases. And sometimes can lead to conclusion about other dynamics. Its not meant to be a conclusive stat, precise stat or the best stat. I hope you know that.


Why do you keep brining up Shaq when his most efficient years have come without him? :oldlol: Because it's a great example of how backward the stat is and you are.


The fact is Prime Kobe was vastly more efficient than current Rose, which is why jrong's post was such a joke. Lumping Kobe in with Rose/Iverson is is just silly considering he was just as efficient as Wade in his prime....

Certainly much more efficient than Iverson/Rose.
You keep saying vastly (Yet Rose improves 5 times that same amount each year).

[oolalaa]

Why would I use eFG% when TS% is the better stat by far?

LOL @ prime/peak Kobe not being vastly more efficient.

58% TS>>55% TS.58% TS>>55% TS. :roll:

you stated that -"Kobe doesn't maintain high efficiency at high monopolization??"

obviously, the more shots you take the less will go in as a general rule.

you're basically saying that kobe remains efficient when he shoots the ball a lot. what does his free throw% have to do with this? the answer is nothing so you shouldn't be using TS% with regard to efficiency per volume.

oh and 58% TS (kobe in his absolute prime!) is vastly more efficient than 55% TS? :rolleyes:

kobe at 22 years of age and in his 5th season = TS% .552

rose at 22 years old and in his 3rd season = TS% .550

:roll: :hammerhead:

kobe has never been an efficient scorer or are you too far up his ass to see this?

[oolalaa]

If you were smart that would be your clue as to how weak the stat is. Its a dumb stat. Don't you get it. If Kobe takes bad shots, shows bad judgement, takes too many threes, he can hide it all behind his free throw shooting. Kobe would have to be just plain dumb and backward if he couldn't be more efficient with the biggest offesnive distraction in the game ever. What was it? Was he so stupid he didn't know how to capitalize on Shaq presence? Or is that the stat is backward??? Since I like Kobe I'll say its the latter.

In your world you don't do balanced equations. Or is it that you just can't handle it. If you are not comparing guys with similiar type experience it's not fair. Most good players get incemently better in TS. So next year Derek Rose who improved at least 15 points each year - DESPITE obviously being less efficient last year, he's almost guaranteed to pass Kobe's best mark pretty easily when he starts getting calls, and a better running offense. The funniest thing is that Rose got better 15 points each year and you act like 3 points is huge difference. And your lame math should know that 4 years compared to 14 is a great disparity to begin with.

Lebron averaged like 60 TS over the last two years. Is he Kobe's God. Heck he has like 6 years better than Kobe's best and he's only played 8 years. Its such a crummy stat you would believe Lebron is a better shooter than Kobe.


Sorry, whenever a stat hides a weakness - its a bad stat - it means the stat has a weakness. FG% is a raw stat - more precise, accurate and pure. It's simple mathematics. Combination stats can only help interpret raw stats in SOME cases. And sometimes can lead to conclusion about other dynamics. Its not meant to be a conclusive stat, precise stat or the best stat. I hope you know that.
Because it's a great example of how backward the stat is and you are.

You keep saying vastly (Yet Rose improves 5 times that same amount each year).

:applause:

[Celtics4ever]

Wade outplayed him in the season without Lebron also, so your argument is bullshyt

Lol, did you even watch Wade against Rose last season without LeBron? Wade was murdered by Rose. This comment just shows you make up half of your comments just to prove yourself right.

[Jacks3]

you stated that -"Kobe doesn't maintain high efficiency at high monopolization??"

obviously, the more shots you take the less will go in as a general rule.

you're basically saying that kobe remains efficient when he shoots the ball a lot. what does his free throw% have to do with this? the answer is nothing so you shouldn't be using TS% with regard to efficiency per volume.

Ignoring the fact that he can continue to get to the FT line and hit them at a high rate would be stupid. :roll:

The entire idea is that his TS% has been super-elite even at high volume at 32 PPG. Why would I ignore his FT's?:roll:


oh and 58% TS (kobe in his absolute prime!) is vastly more efficient than 55% TS? :rolleyes:
Yeah, a 3 percent difference is considerable.

[QUOTE]kobe at 22 years of age and in his 5th season = TS% .552

rose at 22 years old and in his 3rd season = TS% .550

:roll: :hammerhead:
1. Kobe did it in a tougher league defensively without the rule changes.
2. Kobe did it at a much higher volume. 29 PPG>>>25 PPG.


kobe has never been an efficient scorer or are you too far up his ass to see this?
You're an idiot. 56% TS for his career over 15 seasons. 57% TS in his prime.

58% TS at his peak.


Not efficient? :roll:

[Jacks3]

If you were smart that would be your clue as to how weak the stat is. Its a dumb sat? Or is that the stat is backward??? Since I like Kobe I'll say its the latter.
:oldlol:
No, he "can't" hide behind his FT shooting because TS% includes everything.

If he's doing all the bad things you say, it would be reflected in his TS%.


In your world you don't do balanced equations. Or is it that you just can't handle it. If you are not comparing guys with similiar type experience it's not fair. Most good players get incemently better in TS. So next year Derek Rose who improved at least 15 points each year - DESPITE obviously being less efficient last year, he's almost guaranteed to pass Kobe's best mark pretty easily when he starts getting calls, and a better running offense. The funniest thing is that Rose got better 15 points each year and you act like 3 points is huge difference. And your lame math should know that 4 years compared to 14 is a great disparity to begin with.

Whether you see Rose improving is irreverent and has nothing to do with the original position. The fact remains. Prime/peak Kobe was much more efficient than Rose has ever been. And no, it's nowhere near guaranteed he passes 58% TS, and sure as hell not on 32 PPG.

I already explained how Rose in 10-11 was easily more efficient than previous years. Why do you keep sprouting the same bull-shit?

Lebron averaged like 60 TS over the last two years. Is he Kobe's God. Heck he has like 6 years better than Kobe's best and he's only played 8 years. Its such a crummy stat you would believe Lebron is a better shooter than Kobe.
:oldlol:

If you knew anything about the stat, you'd know that it attempts to measure scoring efficiency, not pure shooting. And yeah, LBJ is easily more efficient than prime/peak Bryant.



Sorry, whenever a stat hides a weakness - its a bad stat - it means the stat has a weakness. FG% is a raw stat - more precise, accurate and pure. It's simple mathematics. Combination stats can only help interpret raw stats in SOME cases. And sometimes can lead to conclusion about other dynamics. Its not meant to be a conclusive stat, precise stat or the best stat. I hope you know that.
:oldlol:

FG% "hides" weaknesses more than any other stat. You realize this right?

Doesn't measure FT%/FTA. Doesn't measure the extra value of threes/volume.

Basically, it's worthless if you want to measure actual scoring efficiency.

:roll:



Because it's a great example of how backward the stat is and you are.
The only backward one here is you. :oldlol:

[chazzy]

Kobe would have to be just plain dumb and backward if he couldn't be more efficient with the biggest offesnive distraction in the game ever. What was it? Was he so stupid he didn't know how to capitalize on Shaq presence? Or is that the stat is backward??? Since I like Kobe I'll say its the latter.
Two things

1 - His scoring peak came after Shaq
2 - Rule changes after Shaq sent perimeter players to the line at an increased rate, thus increasing their overall efficiency.


So next year Derek Rose who improved at least 15 points each year - DESPITE obviously being less efficient last year
He wasn't though. He was more efficient from the field from a raw FG% standpoint but he got to the line/converted at a better rate, and made a lot more 3s.

Lebron averaged like 60 TS over the last two years. Is he Kobe's God. Heck he has like 6 years better than Kobe's best and he's only played 8 years. Its such a crummy stat you would believe Lebron is a better shooter than Kobe.
Lebron is a more efficient scorer than Kobe - doesn't make him a better shooter

[Ikill]

Lol, did you even watch Wade against Rose last season without LeBron? Wade was murdered by Rose. This comment just shows you make up half of your comments just to prove yourself right.
Wade 33/6/4 50% Rose 34/8/4 44% murdered?

[D-Wade316]

Fukk all the Bulls' stans. I guess they didn't learn their lesson very well, that Miami >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Bulls

[JrueHoliday11]

Rose is great, but he won't be better than Wade

[oolalaa]

Ignoring the fact that he can continue to get to the FT line and hit them at a high rate would be stupid. :roll:

The entire idea is that his TS% has been super-elite even at high volume at 32 PPG. Why would I ignore his FT's?:roll:


Yeah, a 3 percent difference is considerable.
[QUOTE]
1. Kobe did it in a tougher league defensively without the rule changes.
2. Kobe did it at a much higher volume. 29 PPG>>>25 PPG.


You're an idiot. 56% TS for his career over 15 seasons. 57% TS in his prime.

58% TS at his peak.


Not efficient? :roll:

:facepalm I don't mind you using the TS% stat (i prefer to look at efg% and ft% separately) but not when talking about about efficiency per volume from the floor.

all i'm saying is that for the general rule of 'as the number of shots you take goes up the rate at which you make them goes down' free throws are irrelevant. im not saying you shouldn't use the ts% stat, just not for that argument (in its simplest form). is this clear now?

since when did ppg = volume? like i stated earlier...

kobe at 22 years old and 5 seasons in the league = 25.1 ppg/19.5 fga (per 36 min) on .484 efg% and .552 ts%

rose at 22 years old and 3 seasons in the league = 24.1 ppg/19 fga (per 36 min) on .485 efg% and .550 ts%

perimeter players who have higher ts%(career) on similar volume...

durant
gervin
jordan
wade
lebron
thompson
bird
king
erving

perimeter players who have lower ts%(career) on similar volume...

iverson
nique
mcgrady

(I of course havn't included anyone who didn't play with a 3 point line)

kobe is a little funny when it comes to efficiency and volume. there is very little change in his efficiency when he takes more shots but this obviously works both ways. i wouldn't be surprised if he took only 10 shots a game and shot still shot around his usual .490 efg%/.560 ts%

I will concede that kobe is an efficient scorer (when taking into account free throws) compared to most perimeter players but compared to other high volume scorers he is not 'super elite'.