Lamar Odom's salary would fall from $8.9 million to $2.6 in NBA owners' proposal

[Theoo's Daddy]

Memo to NBA players: It's time to wave the white flag.
Or at least put the menacing stares and looks of exasperation away for a while and insert a few (dozen) more concessions into the next proposal to force those draconian owners back to the negotiating table before things get even worse.
As the lockout approaches its two-month mark and with just one full-blown meeting having taken place since it began, the harsh reality is that the leverage players wanted so badly doesn't seem to exist.
The international job options that were limited to begin with are shrinking by the day. Euroleague officials are claiming disinterest in the idea of signing NBA players who are under contract, and the Chinese Basketball Association recently announced that it won't allow opt-out clauses in contracts, even if doing so means it can't have Kobe Bryant.
Decertification remains an option for the players, although dissolving the union would do immense damage to both sides, and it would only extend this sluggish situation considering the league filed a litany of preemptive lawsuits in early August. The NBA's message to its players: Go ahead and decertify, but run the risk of voiding all current contracts while continuing to avoid our inevitable victory.
The self-employment route is also a non-starter as a business strategy. Players are learning the hard way how vital the league's marketing machine is with sponsorship and television money. Exhibit A was there for all to see on Saturday night -- as long as you paid the $4.99 user fee charged by a startup basketball website that streamed the Drew League vs. Goodman League game.
It didn't matter how many stars played in the East vs. West battle of pro-am leagues at Trinity University in Washington, D.C., as numerous major television networks (including ESPN and Fox Sports) passed on the chance to air the game because -- as one involved person surmised -- one night of good business with the millionaire talent wasn't worth ticking off the billionaire bosses. Which says nothing of the endless problems the event had with the online streaming, paying customers getting stuck outside the venue and players griping about the not-so-small officiating snafu, in which Drew players weren't told until the final minutes that they could not foul out.

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2011/writers/sam_amick/08/22/nba.labor.talks/index.html?eref=sihp&sct=hp_wr_a2

[Sarcastic]

I hope they decertify and dare the league to void all contracts. Stern doesn't have the guts to go for the nuclear option.

[R.I.P.]

That has to be a joke. If that

[hawksdogsbraves]

I'm starting to think that some sort of league will start up as the lockout drags on. With no end in sight I could see the Drew League type stuff that is already happening developing further and getting a deal with a tv channel like versus. It would put pressure on the owners and allow the players to both play and make some money.

[All Net]

Thats a joke

No Season for a while then :facepalm

[B-Low]

oh no that will only cover about 3-4 months of Khloe's demands for bacon and dinner rolls. Lamar has to hold out for the sake of his marriage.

[GiveItToBurrito]

I'm starting to think that some sort of league will start up as the lockout drags on. With no end in sight I could see the Drew League type stuff that is already happening developing further and getting a deal with a tv channel like versus. It would put pressure on the owners and allow the players to both play and make some money.

Isn't that sort of the plan in Vegas? The owners need to stop this stuff, aside from the fact that the system isn't completely broken, this isn't the NFL or to a lesser extent MLB where there aren't any other options. The only players who are really going to get screwed by an extended lockout are the marginal guys, the Dominic McGuires and Sundiata Gaines' who have maybe a three year window to make a million dollars or so to set them up for life. Jermaine O'Neal and Bargnani and guys making big money really don't have much to lose, especially since they can all just go overseas and lessen the financial hit they're taking.

[hawkfan]

I hope they decertify and dare the league to void all contracts. Stern doesn't have the guts to go for the nuclear option.

Stern can't do that, because the league is required to negotiate in good faith, and if he does that, that is an indication that the league hasn't been.

The hard cap is a bad idea because it just hurts teams that have a guy who sucks - a fat ass like Baron Davis, a guy on decline like Rashard Lewis, a lazy bum like Eddy Curry.

The best solution is a paycut of 10 percent for new contracts, and then 4 year max length contracts for regular contracts and 3 years max length for MLEs. That would eliminate most of the awful contracts that are dragging the entire league down - probably around 100 million per season.

[Wang Zhi Zhi]

****in Stern ****ing retard

[MeLO MvP 15]

I couldn't understand if they were implying that the owners want rollbacks to lower a guy like Lamar Odom's salary like 75% or if they wanted mid-level guys like him to only make around $2.6 mil... either way the owners are insane.

[barrys2c]

The league needs to explore more revenue streams - the sports betting industry is going to loose so much money from a lockout.

[Sarcastic]

Stern can't do that, because the league is required to negotiate in good faith, and if he does that, that is an indication that the league hasn't been.

The hard cap is a bad idea because it just hurts teams that have a guy who sucks - a fat ass like Baron Davis, a guy on decline like Rashard Lewis, a lazy bum like Eddy Curry.

The best solution is a paycut of 10 percent for new contracts, and then 4 year max length contracts for regular contracts and 3 years max length for MLEs. That would eliminate most of the awful contracts that are dragging the entire league down - probably around 100 million per season.

They've already gone to court, and stated that they can void all contracts if the union decided to decertify.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Owners-threaten-voided-contracts-if-the-union-de?urn=nba-wp6830

[Walker]

I couldn't understand if they were implying that the owners want rollbacks to lower a guy like Lamar Odom's salary like 75% or if they wanted mid-level guys like him to only make around $2.6 mil... either way the owners are insane.
This is exactly the stupid reasoning the players are going into this with.
Only 2.6 million? ONLY?
2.6 million dollars a year is insane money, anyone who can't live VERY comfortably on that sort of money is a retard.
All professional players get paid WAY too much, well in most cases (not in Australia and some other places). What are they doing that justifies such ridiculous pay....

[Sarcastic]

This is exactly the stupid reasoning the players are going into this with.
Only 2.6 million? ONLY?
2.6 million dollars a year is insane money, anyone who can't live VERY comfortably on that sort of money is a retard.
All professional players get paid WAY too much, well in most cases (not in Australia and some other places). What are they doing that justifies such ridiculous pay....

What a player can comfortably live on is beside the point. The players have a value that the market should be able to determine, and instituting a cap limits them in their earning potential. Are owners capped on their earnings? How many other professions can you think of that puts a cap on earnings? Do CEOs get capped? Do movie stars get capped? Do musicians get capped?

[Kblaze8855]

What are they doing that justifies such ridiculous pay....

Being a few hundred people generating billions of dollars.

Im often amazed at how people choose to look at these issues. act like athletes are overpaid for getting a big cut of money they work to produce. So what its a game...the people spending billions on it...the money has to go somewhere. And the people generating those billions arent trying to get paid like they could be easily replaced. These arent employees at Mcdonalds. The NBa minus the best players in the world is not generating the money it does. The stars especially make so many people so much money they should probably be paid more. Lebron james jersey sold like 2 million times in 2011....at 35-80 dollars a piece. He may well have sold 100 million dollars just in nba related shit with his name on it. 20 thousand people will pay 10-1000 bucks to go see Kobe play in the PRESEASON for 15 minutes then sit out the night. While there they buy food, pay for parking, and get all sorts of things.

In one night...24 guys generate half a million justi n ticket sales and tickets arent even where most of the money comes from. Ive paid 50 dollars for NBA tickets and spend just as much parking, buying food, and so on

You have 30 teams of guys who can make a million+ EVERY night just off ticket sales. Plus a 7.4 billion dollar TV deal which is a whole other matter....

So much money is made of these guys the idea that they are overpaid because its just a game cant be supported.

It isnt a kid playing catch i nthe backyard. Its a handful of guys used to make billions of dollars.

Being good at that game is why.

Asking what they do to deserve the money just doesnt make sense.

[L.Kizzle]

This is exactly the stupid reasoning the players are going into this with.
Only 2.6 million? ONLY?
2.6 million dollars a year is insane money, anyone who can't live VERY comfortably on that sort of money is a retard.
All professional players get paid WAY too much, well in most cases (not in Australia and some other places). What are they doing that justifies such ridiculous pay....
Yeah, and he's gettin money from other endorsements, not to mention a television show.

[Sarcastic]

Yeah, and he's gettin money from other endorsements, not to mention a television show.

So what? The owners make tons of money off their other businesses. What does that have to do with the NBA?

[Kensta]

Yeah, and he's gettin money from other endorsements, not to mention a television show.

Money is money. No one likes to lose money, no matter how much.

[the_wise_one]

That's about 2 million too much for Lamar Odom.

[WeGetRing2012]

Being a few hundred people generating billions of dollars.

Im often amazed at how people choose to look at these issues. act like athletes are overpaid for getting a big cut of money they work to produce. So what its a game...the people spending billions on it...the money has to go somewhere. And the people generating those billions arent trying to get paid like they could be easily replaced. These arent employees at Mcdonalds. The NBa minus the best players in the world is not generating the money it does. The stars especially make so many people so much money they should probably be paid more. Lebron james jersey sold like 2 million times in 2011....at 35-80 dollars a piece. He may well have sold 100 million dollars just in nba related shit with his name on it. 20 thousand people will pay 10-1000 bucks to go see Kobe play in the PRESEASON for 15 minutes then sit out the night. While there they buy food, pay for parking, and get all sorts of things.

In one night...24 guys generate half a million justi n ticket sales and tickets arent even where most of the money comes from. Ive paid 50 dollars for NBA tickets and spend just as much parking, buying food, and so on

You have 30 teams of guys who can make a million+ EVERY night just off ticket sales. Plus a 7.4 billion dollar TV deal which is a whole other matter....

So much money is made of these guys the idea that they are overpaid because its just a game cant be supported.

It isnt a kid playing catch i nthe backyard. Its a handful of guys used to make billions of dollars.

Being good at that game is why.

Asking what they do to deserve the money just doesnt make sense.

http://rbasite.org/blog1/media/1/20070603-Black%20Preacher%201.jpg

[Euroleague]

Typical forum member: "But, but, but - "the NBA pays way more than what any teams in Euroleague pay"."

:lol :roll: :oldlol: :rolleyes:

[Euroleague]

Stern can't do that, because the league is required to negotiate in good faith, and if he does that, that is an indication that the league hasn't been.

That's perfectly legal in the USA. That is exactly how the USA operates now under the law. Or have you been living in a cave?

[Dbrog]

This is exactly the stupid reasoning the players are going into this with.
Only 2.6 million? ONLY?
2.6 million dollars a year is insane money, anyone who can't live VERY comfortably on that sort of money is a retard.
All professional players get paid WAY too much, well in most cases (not in Australia and some other places). What are they doing that justifies such ridiculous pay....

Let me ask you this. Who the hell in their right mind would EVER agree to get 1/4 of their previous salary? That is not just a massive cut, it's an absurd one. Say you were making $40k a yr. With the same cut, you would be well below the poverty line if you were trying to support a family. There really isn't anything else to say.

[Da KO King]

They've already gone to court, and stated that they can void all contracts if the union decided to decertify.

http://sports.yahoo.com/nba/blog/ball_dont_lie/post/Owners-threaten-voided-contracts-if-the-union-de?urn=nba-wp6830
It's not about whether they can but whether they WOULD. They just wouldn't risk it. Too much too lose.

If you're the Lakers do you seriously void Kobe Bryant's contract? If you're the Orlando Magic do you risk that Dwight Howard will return to your team?

[SCdac]

Being a few hundred people generating billions of dollars.

Im often amazed at how people choose to look at these issues. act like athletes are overpaid for getting a big cut of money they work to produce. So what its a game...the people spending billions on it...the money has to go somewhere. And the people generating those billions arent trying to get paid like they could be easily replaced. These arent employees at Mcdonalds. The NBa minus the best players in the world is not generating the money it does. The stars especially make so many people so much money they should probably be paid more. Lebron james jersey sold like 2 million times in 2011....at 35-80 dollars a piece. He may well have sold 100 million dollars just in nba related shit with his name on it. 20 thousand people will pay 10-1000 bucks to go see Kobe play in the PRESEASON for 15 minutes then sit out the night. While there they buy food, pay for parking, and get all sorts of things.

In one night...24 guys generate half a million justi n ticket sales and tickets arent even where most of the money comes from. Ive paid 50 dollars for NBA tickets and spend just as much parking, buying food, and so on

You have 30 teams of guys who can make a million+ EVERY night just off ticket sales. Plus a 7.4 billion dollar TV deal which is a whole other matter....

So much money is made of these guys the idea that they are overpaid because its just a game cant be supported.

It isnt a kid playing catch i nthe backyard. Its a handful of guys used to make billions of dollars.

Being good at that game is why.

Asking what they do to deserve the money just doesnt make sense.

From what I can tell you don't think players (today) are overpaid...

Just out of curiosity, at what point would the average NBA player become overpaid?

and do you feel, with current contract trends, that it's headed in that direction?

[Da KO King]

From what I can tell you don't think players (today) are overpaid...

Just out of curiosity, at what point would the average NBA player become overpaid?

and do you feel, with current contract trends, that it's headed in that direction?
No one can be overpaid unless the person who has to pay it signed the contract with a gun to his head.

[lilgodfather1]

It's not about whether they can but whether they WOULD. They just wouldn't risk it. Too much too lose.

If you're the Lakers do you seriously void Kobe Bryant's contract? If you're the Orlando Magic do you risk that Dwight Howard will return to your team?
The Lakers should void Kobe's contract. It would be the best decision in franchise history.

[Sarcastic]

From what I can tell you don't think players (today) are overpaid...

Just out of curiosity, at what point would the average NBA player become overpaid?

and do you feel, with current contract trends, that it's headed in that direction?

Some players are overpaid (Rashard Lewis, Eddy Curry, etc) and some players are grossly underpaid (pretty much every superstar) so it all evens out. The players generate billions of dollars in revenue and according to the CBA which was negotiated between the union and the league they are supposed to receive whatever % was agreed upon. If the owners weren't happy with that % at that time, they never should have signed the CBA.

[Kblaze8855]

From what I can tell you don't think players (today) are overpaid...

Just out of curiosity, at what point would the average NBA player become overpaid?

and do you feel, with current contract trends, that it's headed in that direction?

I cant call it without looking at the books and what comes in in total. As I said...if they sell 2 million lebron or Kobe jerseys a year for 10 years...they just made a billion dollars off him alone(minus the production and all but...you know what I mean). So a lot of the guys making the most...the stars...MIGHT...be underpaid. But who can say what a random guy generates?

Id say that the idea that players are over paid just because they make millions off a game is just crazy though. When they dont produce billions they shouldnt get millions.

Really...how much money must parking alone generate in the NBA? 20 thousand people so like...7-8 thousand cars...its 20-35 dollars to park at a Bulls game. Imagine 20 bucks...8000 times a night...41 games a season plus playoffs? Its 197 million dollars a year for all 32 teams to get 41 home games before playoffs..just for parking if its 8000 cars a game(of course..some take trains...cabs...bus...whatever...just an estimate).


Or concession fees? I knew a guy who worked on a crew at Ericsson stadium in charlotte(bank of america stadium now....Panthers). The concessions guys were making THOUSANDs a day selling just drinks. sodas. The soda station alone was counting out stacks every night. And the team got paid absurd fees for the rights to sell shit in the stadium. Thats NFL but...same deal you know?

Selling 10 million jerseys at 30 to 80 bucks a piece? And I read Lebron alone sold 1.6 in just a part of last season. How many you think sell league wide?

How much per player is it when they sign a 7 billion dollar Tv deal?

Or the overseas tv deals? The exclusive rights to broadcast Yao games in mainland china perhaps?

I know players get a lot...rooms...food...all that. but they generate an obscene sum of money. They deserve millions.



Edit for fact checking;

An espn article says the Cavs made 72 million in a single year off Lebron jerseys and that he sold 1.6 through part of last season...but a Forbes article on top selling sports jerseys says tony romo sold 3 million in a year and the top 5 NBA jerseys were all under a million. So....take up the disparity with them.

[guy]

I cant call it without looking at the books and what comes in in total. As I said...if they sell 2 million lebron or Kobe jerseys a year for 10 years...they just made a billion dollars off him alone(minus the production and all but...you know what I mean). So a lot of the guys making the most...the stars...MIGHT...be underpaid. But who can say what a random guy generates?

Id say that the idea that players are over paid just because they make millions off a game is just crazy though. When they dont produce billions they shouldnt get millions.

Really...how much money must parking alone generate in the NBA? 20 thousand people so like...7-8 thousand cars...its 20-35 dollars to park at a Bulls game. Imagine 20 bucks...8000 times a night...41 games a season plus playoffs? Its 197 million dollars a year for all 32 teams to get 41 home games before playoffs..just for parking if its 8000 cars a game(of course..some take trains...cabs...bus...whatever...just an estimate).


Or concession fees? I knew a guy who worked on a crew at Ericsson stadium in charlotte(bank of america stadium now....Panthers). The concessions guys were making THOUSANDs a day selling just drinks. sodas. The soda station alone was counting out stacks every night. And the team got paid absurd fees for the rights to sell shit in the stadium. Thats NFL but...same deal you know?

Selling 10 million jerseys at 30 to 80 bucks a piece? And I read Lebron alone sold 1.6 in just a part of last season. How many you think sell league wide?

How much per player is it when they sign a 7 billion dollar Tv deal?

Or the overseas tv deals? The exclusive rights to broadcast Yao games in mainland china perhaps?

I know players get a lot...rooms...food...all that. but they generate an obscene sum of money. They deserve millions.



Edit for fact checking;

An espn article says the Cavs made 72 million in a single year off Lebron jerseys and that he sold 1.6 through part of last season...but a Forbes article on top selling sports jerseys says tony romo sold 3 million in a year and the top 5 NBA jerseys were all under a million. So....take up the disparity with them.

Great post. People that think NBA players are overpaid don't know basic economics. Simple as that.

Not to mention the number of jobs that wouldn't be around if leagues like the NBA, NHL, NFL, and MLB weren't around.

There are certain players that overpaid and some that are underpaid, but no way in hell are they overpaid as a whole. If anything, I have a feel they are underpaid as a whole. If they are generating the same amount of revenue as the MLB, which I'm assuming they are, they must be underpaid since they get paid so much less with the salary cap system.

[OhNoTimNoSho]

How will he feed his family?????

[ProfessorMurder]

How will he feed his family?????

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q225/kennerguy66/sprewell.png

[Rowe]

Great post. People that think NBA players are overpaid don't know basic economics. Simple as that.

Not to mention the number of jobs that wouldn't be around if leagues like the NBA, NHL, NFL, and MLB weren't around.

There are certain players that overpaid and some that are underpaid, but no way in hell are they overpaid as a whole. If anything, I have a feel they are underpaid as a whole. If they are generating the same amount of revenue as the MLB, which I'm assuming they are, they must be underpaid since they get paid so much less with the salary cap system.

Agreed. x10.

I cant help but lol at anybody who agrees Odom should take a paycut of 8.9 million to 2.6 million.

I guess this is what happens when you have children still receiving allowance from their parents trying to justify how much a NBA player should be paid.

Any professional forced to take basically a 65% paycut would announce his resignation to find a new job opportunity. However, considering this is America, the Unions wouldnt allow it and a strike would ensue. In the case of the NBA, both sides dont have any other options.

[Rowe]

I hope they decertify and dare the league to void all contracts. Stern doesn't have the guts to go for the nuclear option.

That would be the best thing to happen to the NBA from a fans viewpoint.

However, the value of franchise's would all drop dramatically including losing sponsors knowing they dont have any players under contract to determine the earning potential of each team.

[guy]

Agreed. x10.

I cant help but lol at anybody who agrees Odom should take a paycut of 8.9 million to 2.6 million.

I guess this is what happens when you have children still receiving allowance from their parents trying to justify how much a NBA player should be paid.

Any professional forced to take basically a 65% paycut would announce his resignation to find a new job opportunity. However, considering this is America, the Unions wouldnt allow it and a strike would ensue. In the case of the NBA, both sides dont have any other options.

Its really stupid. Lets take it a step further. The reality is all of us can live just fine with $40K/year, maybe $80K/year per family. So, why don't we just become a communist country then and distribute the wealth equally amongst everyone.

[RRR3]

http://i137.photobucket.com/albums/q225/kennerguy66/sprewell.png
:roll: :roll: :roll: :applause: :applause:

[JDKMagic]

They may not be overpaid when considering what the league brings in, but they're still overpaid in general.

Yes, they are paid millions to play a game, and yes, that in itself is ridiculous. We are over paying for entertainment, which leads to the players being overpaid.

They serve absolutely no purpose to better society or future societies in any way whatsoever. Mankind will be no better with LeBron James', Michael Jordan's, Kobe Bryant's, etc... existence. They absolutely do not deserve to make that kind of money. But make no mistake... it's our own fault, as consumers, for paying what we pay.

All they are here to do is help us pass time in a less painful manner before we die. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Overpaid based on their contribution to society? Yes, in a very large way. Based on what the NBA makes? No.

[guy]

They may not be overpaid when considering what the league brings in, but they're still overpaid in general.

Yes, they are paid millions to play a game, and yes, that in itself is ridiculous. We are over paying for entertainment, which leads to the players being overpaid.

They serve absolutely no purpose to better society or future societies in any way whatsoever. Mankind will be no better with LeBron James', Michael Jordan's, Kobe Bryant's, etc... existence. They absolutely do not deserve to make that kind of money. But make no mistake... it's our own fault, as consumers, for paying what we pay.

All they are here to do is help us pass time in a less painful manner before we die. That's it. Nothing more, nothing less.

Overpaid based on their contribution to society? Yes, in a very large way. Based on what the NBA makes? No.

You can say that about many people in the world. Not just NBA players. There are plenty of people working in jobs that aren't contributing much if anything to society.

In fact you can argue that many are making money contributing to the downfall of society. For example, what exactly is a restaurant owner thats so great for society? They serve us food thats ultimately unhealthy. What about some of these expensive retail stores? What are they doing? What about alcohol and tobacco products?

[AirTupac]

When you're amongst the best players in the world and can attract / help bring in millions of viewers to watch you play and buy your things, then maybe we can talk about paying you million of dollars to play a "game".

[Kiddlovesnets]

Well thats good for the Lakers, they have more room to sign role players.

[0000000]

Call me a socialist, whatever (in fact, I'm a Scandinavian type socialist)) but to me the fact that so many people today are starving, are homeless, the fact that scientists who change the world make around $70, 000 while athletes make over $10 mil. a year is just sickening. And people still find ways to justify it using economics. We do see how well that's working right now, don't we.
It's just wrong. It might make sense economics wise but it doesn't make sense common sense wise. Athletes need to be paid less, period. 2,6 mil. is a lot of money.

[Kblaze8855]

Call me a socialist, whatever (in fact, I'm a Scandinavian type socialist)) but to me the fact that so many people today are starving, are homeless, the fact that scientists who change the world make around $70, 000 while athletes make over $10 mil. a year is just sickening. And people still find ways to justify it using economics. We do see how well that's working right now, don't we.
It's just wrong. It might make sense economics wise but it doesn't make sense common sense wise. Athletes need to be paid less, period. 2,6 mil. is a lot of money.


They need to be paid less...regardless of what they generate...so..the owners who for the most part are just rich old men sitting on piles and piles of money get more of it?

Or should the hundreds of millions off jerseys, billions off tv deals, and so on just float off into the air?

Would you like to forward it directly to the orphans?

I would too. But I live in the real world. And in the real world...billions dont just get handed over to people who didnt earn it by the private sector unless its a truly massive company handing it over for publicity reasons. The NBA isnt full of Warren Buffets giving away 30 billion because he doesnt need it.

Its full of billionaires giving a little here and there. And you keep the money from players its just gonna buy them extra 80 million dollar boats, 3 million dollar paintings, and other shit they can do without.

This isnt neverland. There is no fairy dust to perform magic. In the real world...a guy generates 300 million a year like a star athlete can(Tony Romo alone sold 3 million jerseys in a year at a cost of 60-130 dollars each)....

You arent giving him enough to get by. You give him enough of it so the money machine doesnt break down by him not letting you create any more.

You can want the money athletes generate to go to the poor and middle class all you want...fact is...its the poor and middle class giving it to the athletes to begin with. Middle class people buying jerseys, league pass, watching the playoffs, and seeing ads on ESPN.

The people willingly give the sports world the money....cant blame them for keeping it. Blame the people who spend 130 bucks on a jersey when 20 dollars a month can save a childs life. Dont blame the people who happily accept the money being dropped into their laps.

[TheLogo]

Yes, the owners are making money but it's the initial investments that the owners have to recoup.

So a team generates a revenue of say...25 million a year? I don't know what the exact numbers are.....

Initial investment of a NBA team can be 400-500 million and that's just to say you own it. Not factoring the operating cost of running these teams. You have to be competitive to drive ticket sales and revenue and these small market teams can't do that.

If the owners forked out that amount of money then they should be able to make it back. Without them, there would be less teams and less chance for players to make the money that they do.

[0000000]

They need to be paid less...regardless of what they generate...so..the owners who for the most part are just rich old men sitting on piles and piles of money get more of it?

Or should the hundreds of millions off jerseys, billions off tv deals, and so on just float off into the air?

Would you like to forward it directly to the orphans?

I would too. But I live in the real world. And in the real world...billions dont just get handed over to people who didnt earn it by the private sector unless its a truly massive company handing it over for publicity reasons. The NBA isnt full of Warren Buffets giving away 30 billion because he doesnt need it.

Its full of billionaires giving a little here and there. And you keep the money from players its just gonna buy them extra 80 million dollar boats, 3 million dollar paintings, and other shit they can do without.

This isnt neverland. There is no fairy dust to perform magic. In the real world...a guy generates 300 million a year like a star athlete can(Tony Romo alone sold 3 million jerseys in a year at a cost of 60-130 dollars each)....

You arent giving him enough to get by. You give him enough of it so the money machine doesnt break down by him not letting you create any more.

You can want the money athletes generate to go to the poor and middle class all you want...fact is...its the poor and middle class giving it to the athletes to begin with. Middle class people buying jerseys, league pass, watching the playoffs, and seeing ads on ESPN.

The people willingly give the sports world the money....cant blame them for keeping it. Blame the people who spend 130 bucks on a jersey when 20 dollars a month can save a childs life. Dont blame the people who happily accept the money being dropped into their laps.

Yes, I do understand all of that perfectly well. And I still know it's wrong. I have no idea what the better alternative would be, zeitgest maybe, who the hell knows. This however is clearly wrong. Common sense wise.
We all do live in the real world. And it's exactly BS like this that's tearing it apart. But obviously this is only the tip of the iceberg. Wall street schemers are the worst.

All I'm saying is, if we were to build a more responsible, healthier and better society, this type of stuff would need to get changed somehow. And yes, unfortunately that is the fantasy world. We"ll just see for how much longer the real world as you call it will be able to hold up based on it's current principles and values.

[Kblaze8855]

Yes, the owners are making money but it's the initial investments that the owners have to recoup.

So a team generates a revenue of say...25 million a year? I don't know what the exact numbers are.....

Initial investment of a NBA team can be 400-500 million and that's just to say you own it. Not factoring the operating cost of running these teams. You have to be competitive to drive ticket sales and revenue and these small market teams can't do that.

If the owners forked out that amount of money then they should be able to make it back. Without them, there would be less teams and less chance for players to make the money that they do.

They dont generally have to hand over 400 million in cash you know? Its complicated. The buying of a team is tied up in banks, loans, and small owners chilling in and so on. Isnt just a guy pulling up with a pickup truck full of hundreds and leaving it at the front gate.

Besides the values of the teams raise so much over time they dont really need the revenue to get what they paid back and then some if they want it.

[FourthTenor]

What a player can comfortably live on is beside the point. The players have a value that the market should be able to determine, and instituting a cap limits them in their earning potential. Are owners capped on their earnings? How many other professions can you think of that puts a cap on earnings? Do CEOs get capped? Do movie stars get capped? Do musicians get capped?


Being a CEO means youre your own boss. Being a movie star is an independent contract.

Being a basketball player means you're an employee of the league who provides all those stadiums, jerseys, hotels, team charters, referees, dinners, shoes, etc. and you have virtually no responsibility. Most of these guys would be fired from jobs that pay 50k if they came to work reflecting the image they do, or having the legal issues they do. These guys don't have any stress that comes with businesses making money or losing money, handling employees, dealing with business partners or anything like that. They get a guaranteed contract to PLAY BASKETBALL.

And a lot of businesses DO cap the salary of various positions in the company. U wanna earn more, you have to get promoted to a new position. As a basketball player, if you wanna earn more, play your best and get a max contract then market yourself outside the league, invest in businesses etc.

You are rite, the market sets the players value. And the owners can determine what that value is in THEIR market. Players can test other markets and see what their value is in other leagues. Nobody stops them.

The owners and the players have the right to pursue these negotiatios in their own interest. Neither is wrong for doing so.

The fact u predictably blame the owners and think u have some moral authority over them is yet another example of how much of an utter loser and retard u are. Sarcastic, YOU'RE A F@GGOT

[TheLogo]

They dont generally have to hand over 400 million in cash you know? Its complicated. The buying of a team is tied up in banks, loans, and small owners chilling in and so on. Isnt just a guy pulling up with a pickup truck full of hundreds and leaving it at the front gate.

Besides the values of the teams raise so much over time they dont really need the revenue to get what they paid back and then some if they want it.

I was generalizing the situation.

If I wanted to go in depth about it, like you did, there are usually groups that buys these teams or money being lent from the banks. Which then has to be paid back in interest.

One ownership group can generate X amount of dollars but that money has to be funneled down to everyone.

Who would want to own a 10 percent share in a team by the time the money gets funneled down to you, 5 to 10 years has passed, and this is not knowing the economic conditions or how your team will be playing. It's a big gamble and everyone wants their money.

All, while the players are getting 6 years of guarantee money that is anywhere from 50 million to max. They are getting what the owners should be payed back without an initial investment.

[Sarcastic]

I'm a douchebag

What you are failing to realize is that owning an NBA franchise is not exactly like owning any other business. They are granted anti-trust exemption from the government to run their league, so the rules they must adhere to are much different than any other business. They would not be able to operate as a league without a CBA, so you can't just throw around cliches like "They're the boss, so it's their rules".

An actor negotiating his independent contract with the studio is akin to the players union negotiating with the NBA for their contract. If they can't agree to the contract, the NBA can just bypass them and make up their own rules. They would sued to high hell.

[Kblaze8855]

They are getting what the owners should be payed back without an initial investment.

Key problem...what the owners get back isnt their problem because they arent co investors. They arent partners. In fact they arent even allowed to own part of the teams. Thats why Jordan had to sell his stake in the wizards to return. And why Magic sold his share of the Lakers to play in 96. Players arent on the investor side. They are the product to be invested in. They are why its feasible to spend 400 million on a team to begin with.

They are sentient cocaine. Or better yet...high priced hookers in a legal brothel. Ever hear of the bunny ranch in Nevada?

Its a legal whore house where guys from all over the world fly in to ****. The girls charge exorbitant rates. some might get 2000 dollars for an hours work. One might say...they just have to lay down and get ****ed and they get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to do it....

Meanwhile the guy who owns the place....he just gets a cut. He had to buy the complex, put millions into fixing it up, he keeps it in public eye, he pays to advertise, he got them a deal with HBO for more publicity. Hes gotta cover crazy health benefits and pay bills and keep these hoes in AC and smelling nice. He provides all sorts of shit.

But they get the major money. And you know why?

Hes SELLING them. You cant make million selling something self aware without it getting paid...heavily. It doesnt matter how much he spent to give them the great conditions they work in. He spent it...because he wanted them to come work in it. He needs them to bring in customers. They make HIM the money.

They could always walk. ***** sells on the street or in the Bunny Ranch. But they dont walk because it doesnt sell for thousands....and a pimp doesnt answer to the law or theh ealth department. Same for the NBA. They arent gonna walk away from millions and being treated like gods just because basketball talent on their level sells anywhere. NBA players can make a good living...anywhere. I went to school with Shammond williams. Know some of his people. He was driving a new all black everything Benz off money he got in europe to not even be a star. And this was years after he was out of the NBA.

The players could walk...the hookers can walk...but neither gets what the current bosses offer. And they dont offer it out of the goodness of their hearts. They offer it because after many high prices accountants and lawyers looked into it...they saw that they could make money. If not yearly...they could make it when they sell the team. No more sure flip in the world than a major sports team. Coke might bring back money....

The Yankees went from 8 million to like 2 billion. And that is a lot more than inflation.

Either they do it for the sure money of selling it off....or the love of the game and wanting to see the team win. In which case the money doesnt matter.

They arent locking out players because a bunch of billionaires need the money. They are doing it because they can. Because the players/hookers wont all walk fast enough to ruin them. The players wont have the marketing machine working for them if they do. Wont be able to make the same lives elsewhere. They know it.

They can lose a season in full and not miss a thing. NBA players for the most part arent rich enough to come up 4-15 million short and not feel it.

This lockout is because a few more money hungry owners...know they can win. Its not because they need the money or their rent wont get paid. THey just...feel like getting more.

But they dont really need to get their investment money back. These guys for the most part BID to get these teams. They were bidding for the right to pay these guys millions.

It didnt get sprung on them at the last minute.

I dont buy that a single owner needs a dime from the NBA to do anything. Its just the principle....and having the power to get their way.

[FourthTenor]

LoLwut? U just outlined all the responsibilities and financial gambles that come with owning a team, but u think the owners are locking out just for the amusement that comes with being able to??

A lot of teams ARENT doing well financially. Owners are allowed to try to change that. What happes if YOU feel underpaid? U either ask for a raise, apply for a promotion, work somewhere else etc. You take action on your own behalf. If owners think the work and money that goes into owning a team isnt paying off well enough, they can make moves. If the labor doesnt like the moves, they can maketheir own moves. Thats the market, thats business.

People like Sarcastic ALWAYS automativally blame the person at te top, even if he has no idea whats going on. Its just his pea-brained go-to move. Always blame whoever is at the top. If hes wrong, blame him. If the other guys wrong, blame him anyway. If theyre both wrong, or NEITHER is wrong, blame the guy at the top anywy.

He just has a chronic pansy mentality.

[TheLogo]

Key problem...what the owners get back isnt their problem because they arent co investors. They arent partners. In fact they arent even allowed to own part of the teams. Thats why Jordan had to sell his stake in the wizards to return. And why Magic sold his share of the Lakers to play in 96. Players arent on the investor side. They are the product to be invested in. They are why its feasible to spend 400 million on a team to begin with.

They are sentient cocaine. Or better yet...high priced hookers in a legal brothel. Ever hear of the bunny ranch in Nevada?

Its a legal whore house where guys from all over the world fly in to ****. The girls charge exorbitant rates. some might get 2000 dollars for an hours work. One might say...they just have to lay down and get ****ed and they get paid hundreds of thousands of dollars to do it....

Meanwhile the guy who owns the place....he just gets a cut. He had to buy the complex, put millions into fixing it up, he keeps it in public eye, he pays to advertise, he got them a deal with HBO for more publicity. Hes gotta cover crazy health benefits and pay bills and keep these hoes in AC and smelling nice. He provides all sorts of shit.

But they get the major money. And you know why?

Hes SELLING them. You cant make million selling something self aware without it getting paid...heavily. It doesnt matter how much he spent to give them the great conditions they work in. He spent it...because he wanted them to come work in it. He needs them to bring in customers. They make HIM the money.

They could always walk. ***** sells on the street or in the Bunny Ranch. But they dont walk because it doesnt sell for thousands....and a pimp doesnt answer to the law or theh ealth department. Same for the NBA. They arent gonna walk away from millions and being treated like gods just because basketball talent on their level sells anywhere. NBA players can make a good living...anywhere. I went to school with Shammond williams. Know some of his people. He was driving a new all black everything Benz off money he got in europe to not even be a star. And this was years after he was out of the NBA.

The players could walk...the hookers can walk...but neither gets what the current bosses offer. And they dont offer it out of the goodness of their hearts. They offer it because after many high prices accountants and lawyers looked into it...they saw that they could make money. If not yearly...they could make it when they sell the team. No more sure flip in the world than a major sports team. Coke might bring back money....

The Yankees went from 8 million to like 2 billion. And that is a lot more than inflation.

Either they do it for the sure money of selling it off....or the love of the game and wanting to see the team win. In which case the money doesnt matter.

They arent locking out players because a bunch of billionaires need the money. They are doing it because they can. Because the players/hookers wont all walk fast enough to ruin them. The players wont have the marketing machine working for them if they do. Wont be able to make the same lives elsewhere. They know it.

They can lose a season in full and not miss a thing. NBA players for the most part arent rich enough to come up 4-15 million short and not feel it.

This lockout is because a few more money hungry owners...know they can win. Its not because they need the money or their rent wont get paid. THey just...feel like getting more.

But they dont really need to get their investment money back. These guys for the most part BID to get these teams. They were bidding for the right to pay these guys millions.

It didnt get sprung on them at the last minute.

I dont buy that a single owner needs a dime from the NBA to do anything. Its just the principle....and having the power to get their way.

I stopped reading when you brought up hookers and brothels as examples.

It really shows your lack of business sense and expertise when you could have brought a similar comparison but you chose hookers and brothels.

:facepalm

[swi7ch]

athletes shouldn't be earning this much

[Kblaze8855]

I stopped reading when you brought up hookers and brothels as examples.

It really shows your lack of business sense and expertise when you could have brought a similar comparison but you chose hookers and brothels.

:facepalm

Lack of "business sense and expertise"? Please. If you dont see any similarities its because you choose no to.

And just so you know...just saying "your lack of business sense and expertise" makes you sound like someone who knows nothing but wants to sound like he does. Im not pretending I know the ins and outs. But we are talking the broadstrokes and general principles involved. This isnt a discussion of advanced economic theory. Lets not try to make it something it isnt.

[Meticode]

Damn, of they cut his salary he goes from being a multimillionaire to being a...

...multimillionaire?

[Kblaze8855]

LoLwut? U just outlined all the responsibilities and financial gambles that come with owning a team, but u think the owners are locking out just for the amusement that comes with being able to??

A lot of teams ARENT doing well financially. Owners are allowed to try to change that. What happes if YOU feel underpaid? U either ask for a raise, apply for a promotion, work somewhere else etc. You take action on your own behalf. If owners think the work and money that goes into owning a team isnt paying off well enough, they can make moves. If the labor doesnt like the moves, they can maketheir own moves. Thats the market, thats business.

There is no real financial gamble with owning a team. The league wont approve anyone without the money and resources to keep up payroll and if they did...they would just take over the team like they did the Hornets and give the owner his hundreds of millions to leave. There is no gamble like a small business owner going all in. You dont run it into the ground then go live with your parents.

But for the record...I didnt say its wrong for billionaires to want more. I just said thats whats happening. I respect the hustle of a self made billionaire. Ive always lived by the Mr.Burns motto. "I have all the money in the world...and id give it all up for a little more".

I have people who depend on me and id love to be able to provide for them and future generations. Greed isnt just.....evil to me.

So im not calling it wrong for a guy with 18 billion to lock out a guy for making too much money when the billionaire can gain or lose 10 times the guys salary in 5 minutes.

But im not gonna call it a struggle for the survival of his business either. ITs not happening because it must. Its happening because they feel like it.

[Sarcastic]

Blah blah blah. I'm a douchebag.

Of course the owners are allowed to change the business if the business is doing bad. No one is arguing against that. The players have even agreed to some concessions. What's up for debate is how much it will be changed, and that will be determined through negotiation in the CBA.

What the owners are not allowed to do is just make up all their own rules according to their wishes.