Kareem is Overrated

[GS1905]

1971 Championship : Kareem shouldn't get too much credit. That 70s era was the weakest era in nba history. Also stop with the BS saying Oscar was useless that year. He averaged 18/5/9 that year in playoffs.

Then he goes to Lakers in 1975 and he doesn't start winning until Magic comes along in 1980.

Then he starts winning 'ships again while playing with the best PG of all time. Where was this "GOAT" Kareem before Magic? How come he wasn't able to lead his team?

I give Kareem credit for his longevity but that's pretty much all. Let Wilt, Shaq, or Hakeem play with Magic and they would do much better than Kareem.

[Warriors fan]

they overrate him when dudes be thinking Kareem and MJ are actually close :roll:

[catch24]

:sleeping

[get these NETS]

six mvps though

[GS1905]

six mvps though

Pretty much all of them are in the 70's. 70s era = WEAK

Plus he wouldn't win his last MVP in 1979-80 if it wasn't for Magic.

Lakers finished 5th in the Western Conference with 45-37 in 1977-78 and 5th again in 78-79 with 47-35. Then Magic comes along and Lakers win 60 games. Yup, that's how Kareem won his last MVP.

[D-Wade316]

1971 Championship : Kareem shouldn't get too much credit. That 70s era was the weakest era in nba history. Also stop with the BS saying Oscar was useless that year. He averaged 18/5/9 that year in playoffs.

Then he goes to Lakers in 1975 and he doesn't start winning until Magic comes along in 1980.

Then he starts winning 'ships again while playing with the best PG of all time. Where was this "GOAT" Hakeem before Magic? How come he wasn't able to lead his team?

I give Kareem credit for his longevity but that's pretty much all. Let Wilt, Shaq, or Hakeem play with Magic and they would do much better than Kareem.
I looked as you as a clown when you made a thread that AI is the 2nd best sg of all-time, but I actually completely agree with you in this. Kareem is way too overrated. In the '71 Playoffs, an over the hill Wilt fought prime Kareem to a standstill. In the '72 Playoffs, a different story because Wilt was playing with an injury. We must not also forget the sweep against Walton.

[Soothing Layup]

1971 Championship : Kareem shouldn't get too much credit. That 70s era was the weakest era in nba history. Also stop with the BS saying Oscar was useless that year. He averaged 18/5/9 that year in playoffs.

Then he goes to Lakers in 1975 and he doesn't start winning until Magic comes along in 1980.

Then he starts winning 'ships again while playing with the best PG of all time. Where was this "GOAT" Hakeem before Magic? How come he wasn't able to lead his team?

I give Kareem credit for his longevity but that's pretty much all. Let Wilt, Shaq, or Hakeem play with Magic and they would do much better than Kareem.

Doh!

[GS1905]

Doh!

Edited.

[get these NETS]

Pretty much all of them are in the 70's. 70s era = WEAK

Plus he wouldn't win his last MVP in 1979-80 if it wasn't for Magic.

Lakers finished 5th in the Western Conference with 45-37 in 1977-78 and 5th again in 78-79 with 47-35. Then Magic comes along and Lakers win 60 games. Yup, that's how Kareem won his last MVP.

I'm the guy that brought up the Kareem not winning rings without GOAT pgs argument in the "Hakeem" isn't top 10 thread.

I did it not to discredit Kareem, but to blow a hole in the criteria dude was using to downgrade Dream.

KAJ was a great player, but the game is still 5 on 5...


I disagree with 70s being a weak era and in the context of this discussion,here is the bulletproof case....look at all the centers in the HOF and top 50...and I'm sure their careers overlapped
wes unseld, willis reed, wilt, , lanier, thurmond,moses, walton,elvin hayes,cowens,gilmore

these are the guys kareem played against night in and night out in the 1970s..and earned his mvp awards against....

[Joey Zaza]

In alot of ways Kareem overrated is sort of an easy argument because he is soo highly rated. He has an excellent argument as the best ever (MVP's, all-time scoring, all-time rebounding, titles, finals MVP's, record at UCLA) ad when someone can be argued as the best ever at anything, overrating is bound to happen...

but, why discount his title pre-Magic -as a rookie and the best player on the team - just to argue he needed Magic for the other titles...and why did he need Magic. One was the MVP and best player in the league for about a decade, the other was a rookie. Also, how many did Magic win without Kareem?

[LBJFTW]

I looked as you as a clown when you made a thread that AI is the 2nd best sg of all-time

lb for lb, he is. A 6'1, 165 lb SG won MVP and made everyone that was bigger and stronger his little bitch boy that season. :oldlol:

[rodman91]

Besides all records and awards...He was 7'2 who had one of the most unguardable offensive weapons. Other than that he was good to great almost everything about basketball.

I doubt he is overrated.Actually he is underrated in some of the lists.

[GS1905]

I'm the guy that brought up the Kareem not winning rings without GOAT pgs argument in the "Hakeem" isn't top 10 thread.

I did it not to discredit Kareem, but to blow a hole in the criteria dude was using to downgrade Dream.

KAJ was a great player, but the game is still 5 on 5...


I disagree with 70s being a weak era and in the context of this discussion,here is the bulletproof case....look at all the centers in the HOF and top 50...and I'm sure their careers overlapped
wes unseld, willis reed, wilt, , lanier, thurmond,moses, walton,elvin hayes,cowens,gilmore

these are the guys kareem played against night in and night out in the 1970s..and earned his mvp awards against....

You're the one who brought it up in that thread but I was already thinking the same thing and posted that on a different thread before. So it has nothing to do with you.

[GS1905]

In alot of ways Kareem overrated is sort of an easy argument because he is soo highly rated. He has an excellent argument as the best ever (MVP's, all-time scoring, all-time rebounding, titles, finals MVP's, record at UCLA) ad when someone can be argued as the best ever at anything, overrating is bound to happen...

but, why discount his title pre-Magic -as a rookie and the best player on the team - just to argue he needed Magic for the other titles...and why did he need Magic. One was the MVP and best player in the league for about a decade, the other was a rookie. Also, how many did Magic win without Kareem?

Then why didn't Kareem win with the Lakers before Magic arrived? Magic was a rookie but he had one of the best rookie seasons ever. He was ready for Nba so it doesn't matter that he was a rookie. He scored close to 1500 points in his rookie season as a PG for gods sake.

FYI Magic only played 2 seasons after Kareem retired because of HIV and he took that garbage Lakers team to the finals in '91.

[GS1905]

lb for lb, he is. A 6'1, 165 lb SG won MVP and made everyone that was bigger and stronger his little bitch boy that season. :oldlol:

:cheers:

Plus most peple got me wrong in that thread. I wasn't talking about their team accomplishments in that thread. I was talking about individual accomplishments and individual performance.

[97 bulls]

Then why didn't Kareem win with the Lakers before Magic arrived? Magic was a rookie but he had one of the best rookie seasons ever. He was ready for Nba so it doesn't matter that he was a rookie. He scored close to 1500 points in his rookie season as a PG for gods sake.

FYI Magic only played 2 seasons after Kareem retired because of HIV and he took that garbage Lakers team to the finals in '91.
I actually agree that jabaar is a little overrated when his career is put into context. He'd wouldn't have a lot of his mvps in julius erving and a few other players hadn't joined the aba. And his inability to win more than once in thhe 70s is also a huge blemish.

But based on what he did and accomplished he's not overrated. He's arguably more decorated than jordan.

Its just real hypocritical way of thinking. Certain players careers a totally diminished by some people cuz they don't want to look at each players individual situation. But other players career sucha as kareems are nearly as scrutinized.

[get these NETS]

You're the one who brought it up in that thread but I was already thinking the same thing and posted that on a different thread before. So it has nothing to do with you.


ok, you addressed the minor point point and avoided the major point

THAT kareem's era was STACKED with great centers....and he still was THE dominant center and player in the NBA in the 1970s...

how can it be a weak era when the position was loaded with all time great centers...?

[Joey Zaza]

Then why didn't Kareem win with the Lakers before Magic arrived? Magic was a rookie but he had one of the best rookie seasons ever. He was ready for Nba so it doesn't matter that he was a rookie. He scored close to 1500 points in his rookie season as a PG for gods sake.

FYI Magic only played 2 seasons after Kareem retired because of HIV and he took that garbage Lakers team to the finals in '91.

Lets be real clear, KAJ was the best player in the league for a decade...I don't care how "weak" the era was, out of all the people being paid to play basketball and dedicating their entire lives to the sport for a period of 10 years - he was the best one. That's 10 years, easily ...maybe more, where he destroyed the league at every stop. He scored the most points. Had the most rebounds. Just the best one.

Is the whole argument is that he only won 1 title before he won another 4 on a better built team with better teammates?

News flash EVERY SINGLE PLAYER IN HISTORY has won titles with teammates. The overwhelming majority of them won titles with All-Star, HoF quality teammates. So if KAJ is overrated because he only won 1 title without Magic, then MJ is overrated because he won 0 without Pippen, Bird is overrated because he won 0 without McHael/Parrish, Magic is overrated because he won 0 without Kareem.

By your argument, who isn't overrated? Who is this magical player that with his own awesomeness took a bunch of guys, taught them to dribble, followed all their misses with dunks and through sheer force of will got a title.

[Friday]

Kareem has a case for being the greatest NBA player ever, yet nobody thinks he is the greatest ever. So how is he underrated?

[ThaRegul8r]

Kareem has a case for being the greatest NBA player ever, yet nobody thinks he is the greatest ever. So how is he underrated?

I only recall two players ever saying Kareem was GOAT.

Walt Frazier

[quote]He encompassed everything, no matter what standard you want to measure greatness by. Winning? He won championships in grade school, high school, college, and the pros. Scoring? He scored more points than anyone in league history. Longevity? He played 20 seasons in the NBA. He was also respected as a team player. He could have scored many more points if he had been a selfish player.

It

[Odinn]

I only recall two players ever saying Kareem was GOAT.

Walt Frazier

and Isiah Thomas.
Also Dr. J;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8bIDEtpOMs

[GS1905]

Anyone who has Kareem in their top 5 is stupid. Kareem is #6 at best.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Anyone who has Kareem in their top 5 is stupid. Kareem is #6 at best.
:oldlol:

Find 5 players that have a better resume than this....

6

[DMV2]

OP does make some really good points here.

[Odinn]

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]:oldlol:

Find 5 players that have a better resume than this....

6

[ThaRegul8r]

I only recall two players ever saying Kareem was GOAT.

Walt Frazier

and Isiah Thomas.

Also Dr. J;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G8bIDEtpOMs

You're right, sir. I'd forgotten about J. I stand corrected.

[GS1905]

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]:oldlol:

Find 5 players that have a better resume than this....

6

[DMV2]

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]:oldlol:

Find 5 players that have a better resume than this....

6

[ThaSwagg3r]

Hush. He's a teenager from Turkey who didn't even watch a entire game from a peak-Kareem.:oldlol: :oldlol:
You don't even have need to watch a game from Kareem to know how great he was. :oldlol: His resume and accomplishments already speak for itself.

[gengiskhan]

[QUOTE=ThaSwagg3r]:oldlol:

Find 5 players that have a better resume than this....

6

[GS1905]

Hush. He's a teenager from Turkey who didn't even watch a entire game from a peak-Kareem.:oldlol: :oldlol:

Yea, idiot? I bet I know more about Hakeem than you do. Go suck Duncan's dick.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Won all of his MVPs in weak 70s era. Won his first ring in that weak ass era as well. Then needed to play with the best PG of all time to win rings. If it wasn't for Magic his career would end with 1 ring.

Top 5
1.Jordan
2.Russell
3.Wilt
4.Magic
5.Bird

Kareem is overrated.
Actually you have it the other way around if It weren't for Kareem, Magic would have been the one that was ringless. I remember someone posted a quote saying how Kareem was actually the most important (catalyst) player on those 80s Lakers team and not Magic.

[NugzHeat3]

I only recall two players ever saying Kareem was GOAT.

Walt Frazier



and Isiah Thomas.



Pat Riley, who coached Kareem, said Kareem was the GOAT while coaching him, but that's because he was his player. After he coached him, however, he expressed in 2000 that he doesn't believe Kareem is GOAT.
Jerry West has also called Kareem the GOAT around the time of his HOF induction. But I'm not sure if that means much considering how many times he's contradicted himself.

A lot of times, this stuff is said as a compliment to the player in discussion and the heat of the moment.

It's the same thing with Isiah. He's called MJ the greatest ever on several occasions.

[RRR3]

Yea, idiot? I bet I know more about Hakeem than you do. Go suck Duncan's dick.
Obviously you don't know much about KAREEM Abdul-Jabbar, since you can't even remember his name. :facepalm :roll: :roll:

[GS1905]

yes

Yes

but

who cares!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kobe "da gawd" bryant scored 81 pts in a single game. :bowdown: so kobe is clearly better than Kareem :bowdown:

kobe >>>>>>> Kareem

Kobe is the best laker ever :applause:

kareem overrated
hakeem overrated
wilt overrated
magic overrated
MJ overrated
Big O overrated

Kobe is severely underrated :roll:

Kobe is #9.

[GS1905]

Actually you have it the other way around if It weren't for Kareem, Magic would have been the one that was ringless. I remember someone posted a quote saying how Kareem was actually the most important (catalyst) player on those 80s Lakers team and not Magic.

Kareem didn't do shit.

Worthy > Kareem

[GS1905]

Obviously you don't know much about KAREEM Abdul-Jabbar, since you can't even remember his name. :facepalm :roll: :roll:

I'm also writing in a different Hakeem thread, therefore, it gets confusing sometimes. Anyways, go dickride Lebron.

[DMV2]

Top 5
1.Jordan
.
.
.
.
.
.
2.Russell
3.Wilt
4.Magic
5.Bird

Kareem is overrated.
When you think about it the list should look like that. Russell's numbers looks somewhat pedestrian compared to MJ. Wilt won only 2 titles. Kareem had longevity.

Jordan was just on another level in terms of greatest. The greatest of the greats. The Ali/Ruth of basketball. :bowdown:

[RRR3]

Kareem didn't do shit.

Worthy > Kareem
http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_li91qatxyu1qafrh6.gif

[ThaSwagg3r]

Kareem didn't do shit.

Worthy > Kareem
You're right, tell me, how many championships did Magic and Worthy win without Kareem?? I know you're just being a troll but at least come up with something creative. You aren't amusing me anymore.

[Odinn]

Obviously you don't know much about KAREEM Abdul-Jabbar, since you can't even remember his name. :facepalm :roll: :roll:

Let's check out his threads;

Kareem is Overrated
Peak Tmac would Kill Peak Jordan
Iverson is the 2nd Best SG of All Time Behind Jordan
Pau Gasol Should've Been the Finals MVP in 2009-10
Hakeem is not a top10 Player
Can Stephen Curry become the best PG in the league?
Can Enes Kanter Become the Best European PF/C? (he also stated Enes has Dirk's Jumper)
DeAndre Jordan will be the Best Center in the League
Clippers Will Dominate Next Year (claims 60+ wins)
Kevin Durant has GOAT potential
Barkley & Malone > Duncan

Just leave this troll alone.:facepalm

[GS1905]

When you think about the list should look like that. Russell's numbers looks somewhat pedestrian compared to MJ. Wilt won only 2 titles. Kareem had longevity.

Jordan was just on another level in terms of greatest. The greatest of the great. The Ali/Ruth of basketball. :bowdown:

Yes. Jordan shits on Kareem's career. Compared to Jordan Kareem's career is a joke.

[The-Legend-24]

yes

Yes

but

who cares!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Kobe "da gawd" bryant scored 81 pts in a single game. :bowdown: so kobe is clearly better than Kareem :bowdown:

kobe >>>>>>> Kareem

Kobe is the best laker ever :applause:

kareem overrated
hakeem overrated
wilt overrated
magic overrated
MJ overrated
Big O overrated

Kobe is severely underrated :roll:
The f*ck does Kobe have to do with kareem being overrated? :oldlol:

This guy is more of a Kobe homer than the actual homers lol. Why is Kobe's name in every single one of your post?

[RRR3]

Let's check out his threads;

Kareem is Overrated
Peak Tmac would Kill Peak Jordan
Iverson is the 2nd Best SG of All Time Behind Jordan
Pau Gasol Should've Been the Finals MVP in 2009-10
Hakeem is not a top10 Player
Can Stephen Curry become the best PG in the league?
Can Enes Kanter Become the Best European PF/C? (he also stated Enes has Dirk's Jumper)
DeAndre Jordan will be the Best Center in the League
Clippers Will Dominate Next Year (claims 60+ wins)
Kevin Durant has GOAT potential
Barkley & Malone > Duncan

Just leave this troll alone.:facepalm
But he's funny to talk to cuz he's so dumb lol.

[RRR3]

The f*ck does Kobe have to do with kareem being overrated? :oldlol:

This guy is more of a Kobe homer than the actual homers lol. Why is Kobe's name in every single one of your post?
I wouldn't talk, Mr. "I pop up whenever Kobe's name is mentioned".

[GS1905]

Let's check out his threads;



Can Enes Kanter Become the Best European PF/C? (he also stated Enes has Dirk's Jumper)


Just leave this troll alone.:facepalm

You have problems understanding English, homeboy? I didn't say such thing. It's Kanter who said that shit or at least that's what Nba.com said. Idiot.:facepalm

[RRR3]

You have problems understanding English, homeboy? I didn't say such thing. It's Kanter who said that shit or at least that's what Nba.com said. Idiot.:facepalm
You have still said a lot of dumb things besides that, dude. LOL @ Worthy>Kareem. That shit is gold, man. You should go into comedy.

[GS1905]

You have still said a lot of dumb things besides that, dude. LOL @ Worthy>Kareem. That shit is gold, man. You should go into comedy.

Worthy would destroy that 70s weak ass era unlike Kareem. He would win 9 rings and 9 finals MVP in a row.

Yes, Worthy >Kareem.

[Odinn]

But he's funny to talk to cuz he's so dumb lol.
Also, I write to this forum from Turkey and this idiot making me ashamed.:facepalm

I always thought Kobe-tards are the worst posters but... I can not believe that for writing this; he's worse than Kobe-tards.:facepalm

[Odinn]

Worthy would destroy that 70s weak ass era unless Kareem. He would win 9 rings and 9 finals MVP in a row.

Yes, Worthy >Kareem.
He has no limits!:roll: :roll:

[ThaRegul8r]

Kobe "da gawd" bryant scored 81 pts in a single game. :bowdown: so kobe is clearly better than Kareem :bowdown:

kobe >>>>>>> Kareem

Kobe is the best laker ever :applause:

kareem overrated
hakeem overrated
wilt overrated
magic overrated
MJ overrated
Big O overrated

Kobe is severely underrated :roll:

Not that I care, but I notice when people talk about that, they never also mention this:

[quote]New Jersey Nets executive Rod Thorn, a longtime expert on NBA rules, acknowledges that last season the league adopted a dramatic shift in how it interpreted the rules of the game.

No longer would a defensive player on the perimeter be allowed to use his hand, a barred arm or any sort of physical contact to impede or block the movement of either a cutter or a ball handler.

In a recent interview, Thorn said that the NBA had changed the rule to give an advantage to the offensive player.

[RRR3]

Also, I write to this forum from Turkey and this idiot making me ashamed.:facepalm

I always thought Kobe-tards are the worst posters but... I can not believe that for writing this; he's worse than Kobe-tards.:facepalm
That's probably because he's just a tard in general. :roll:

[RRR3]

Worthy would destroy that 70s weak ass era unlike Kareem. He would win 9 rings and 9 finals MVP in a row.

Yes, Worthy >Kareem.
Except Kareem was still better than Worthy when they played together, so...

[GS1905]

That's probably because he's just a tard in general. :roll:

How sweet.. Lebron dickrider and Duncan dicksucker are on that phaggy time.

[RRR3]

How sweet.. Lebron dickrider and Duncan dicksucker are on that phaggy time.
Iverson dickrider is butthurt.

[GS1905]

Except Kareem was still better than Worthy when they played together, so...

Clearly, you're lacking some history. Worthy has dat dere BBC. Riley was jealous because his wife said she wants dat dere BBC.

Riley hated that and didn't give much offensive control to Worthy. He was limited by Riley directly. Otherwise, he would win at least 5 regular season MVPs and 3 finals MVP.

Worthy > Magic > Kareem and it's not even close.

[Odinn]

How sweet.. Lebron dickrider and Duncan dicksucker are on that phaggy time.
You showed you know so much about b-ball with Worthy>Kareem post. Keep it coming man. You're becoming really funny.:lol

[RRR3]

Clearly, you're lacking some history. Worthy has dat dere BBC. Riley was jealous because his wife said she wants dat dere BBC.

Riley hated that and didn't give much offensive control to Worthy. He was limited by Riley directly. Otherwise, he would win at least 5 regular season MVPs and 3 finals MVP.

Worthy > Magic > Kareem and it's not even close.
Okay, now you're just trolling. Or you're just really gay for Worthy, or you ARE James Worthy himself, bitter at his much better and more famous teammates, and have decided to troll about it.

[Odinn]

Clearly, you're lacking some history. Worthy has dat dere BBC. Riley was jealous because his wife said she wants dat dere BBC.

Riley hated that and didn't give much offensive control to Worthy. He was limited by Riley directly. Otherwise, he would win at least 5 regular season MVPs and 3 finals MVP.

Worthy > Magic > Kareem and it's not even close.
Wohaaaa!!!:applause: :applause:

Now, he's on another level in trolling.:cheers:

Worthy is the g.o.a.t., right?:cheers: :roll: :applause:

[RRR3]

You showed you know so much about b-ball with Worthy>Kareem post. Keep it coming man. You're becoming really funny.:lol
Next he'll be saying:
Luke Walton>Kobe
Scalabrine>Jordan
Erick Dampier>LeBron
Brian Cardinal>Dirk
Smush Parker>Wilt
Sasha Vujacic>Bird

[gengiskhan]

Not that I care, but I notice when people talk about that, they never also mention this:



In the season Kobe scored 81, Bryant averaged 35.4 points per game, Allen Iverson averaged a career-high 33.0 points on a career-best 54.3 percent true shooting, averaging a career-high 9.6 FTAs per game, 7.4 assists; LeBron James averaged a career-high 31.4 points (his first 30 ppg season), averaging a career-high 10.30 FTAs per game; Gilbert Arenas averaged a career-high 29.3 points on a career-high 58.1 percent true shooting, averaging 10.0 FTAs per game; Paul Pierce averaged a career-high 26.8 points on a career-high 10.3 FTAs per game.

Coincidence that so many wing players happened to have career-best years scoring-wise?

But, of course, that's the part people won't mention.

inflated stats no doubt.

You adjust back to '90s era, all of them loose 6 ppgs easily.

Kobe's 35.4 ppg will become 29.4 ppg. FT helped kobe, Iverson a lot. Lebron benefitted too.

Perimeter player becomes unguardable if no hand checking, no physical contact is allowed. They can score at will.

Dont wanna imagine what MJ would've done under such sissy rules. Maybe average 42+PPG easily with 12-15 FT every game.

[GS1905]

Okay, now you're just trolling. Or you're just really gay for Worthy, or you ARE James Worthy himself, bitter at his much better and more famous teammates, and have decided to troll about it.

I'm just telling the truth. I'm not a troll. You idiots are brainwashed by the media and believe whatever they tell you. Worthy is top15 at worst. He's ranked at #12 for me.

I'm not gay for Worthy, either. But you and that Duncan dicksucker might wanna hit him up since you two are on that phaggy time.

[Odinn]

Gotta love that BBC, right?:roll:
I guess he had some wet-dreams about Worthy.:roll:

[GS1905]

These are coming from the biggest Duncan dicksucker and biggest Lebron dickrider.:lol :lol :lol

[Odinn]

I'm just telling the truth. I'm not a troll. You idiots are brainwashed by the media and believe whatever they tell you. Worthy is top15 at worst. He's ranked at #12 for me.

I'm not gay for Worthy, either. But you and that Duncan dicksucker might wanna hit him up since you two are on that phaggy time.
Yeah, yeah.

Making fun of you >>> Teaching you about b-ball history.

Keep it coming and we'll keep making fun of you.:cheers:

[Odinn]

Wow. Who is your 1-11? Based on your posts I'm going to guess:
1. Allen Iverson
2. Pau Gasol
3. Blake Griffin
4. Tracy McGrady
5. Deandre Jordan
6. Enes Kanter
7. Chris Kaman
8. Monta Ellis
9. Ryan Gomes
10. Eric Gordon
11. Jamario Moon
He said he have Kobe at #9. Please be careful. Don't make him angry.:roll:

[GS1905]

No, idiot. I already gave you my top 5.

1.Jordan
2.Russell
3.Wilt
4.Magic
5.Bird
6.Kareem
7.Shaq
8.Iverson
9.Kobe
10.Dr. J
11.Hakeem
12.KING WORTHY

[Odinn]

Clearly, you're lacking some history. Worthy has dat dere BBC. Riley was jealous because his wife said she wants dat dere BBC.

Riley hated that and didn't give much offensive control to Worthy. He was limited by Riley directly. Otherwise, he would win at least 5 regular season MVPs and 3 finals MVP.

Worthy > Magic > Kareem and it's not even close.


No, idiot. I already gave you my top 5.

1.Jordan
2.Russell
3.Wilt
4.Magic
5.Bird
6.Kareem
7.Shaq
8.Iverson
9.Kobe
10.Dr. J
11.Hakeem
12.KING WORTHY

A failure there is.:roll:

[GS1905]

A failure there is.:roll:


:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Worthy > Magic > Kareem individual performance wise. Worthy was a much better player than both of them.

That list is about career achievements.:facepalm

[Odinn]

:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

Worthy > Magic > Kareem individual performance wise. Worthy was a much better player than both of them.

That list is about career achievements.:facepalm
So, Russell should be over Jordan then.

Also Kobe&Erving > Iverson. Are you ready to face that?:roll:

[GS1905]

My analysis of your "list":
1. Agree
2. No. Rings aren't everything
3. Close enough I have him 2nd
4. Agree
5. Agree more or less
6. Disagree should be 3rd
7. Agree more or less
8. LOL
9. No. I have him 10-12 but I can see him 9th
10. Nope. Top 15-20 for sure, though.
11. No. Top 10
12. ROFLMFAO!

2. Not just because of rings. He was the best defensive big men of all time. Plus he stopped Wilt pretty much every single game.
6. No way. Kareem is not a top 5 player. Read this thread all over again and you'll realize this.
8. Iverson would be #2 if he had 1 ring and 1 finals MVP. He was that good.
11. See my other thread and you'll realize that he doesn't belong in the top10.
12.You have no argument against this so you can only laugh.

[Odinn]

2. Not just because of rings. He was the best defensive big men of all time. Plus he stopped Wilt pretty much every single game.
6. No way. Kareem is not a top 5 player. Read this thread all over again and you'll realize this.
8. Iverson would be #2 if he had 1 ring and 1 finals MVP. He was that good.
11. See my other thread and you'll realize that he doesn't belong in the top10.
12.You have no argument against this so you can only laugh.
jlauber alert.:applause:

[GS1905]

jlauber alert.:applause:

**** jlabuer. He is a little crying girl with pink skirts. His basketball knowledge can't even compare with mine. I would destroy him.

Wilt was a beast and hell of an athlete but Russell > Wilt. He played smart and he wasn't a stat padder like Wilt.

[jlauber]

Kareem is over-rated if he is anyone's top-4, and under-rated if he is less than fifth.

Without Magic, he likely would have had ONE ring...and that came in a season in which his 66-16 Bucks had the easiest run to a title in NBA history. They beat a 41-41 team in the first round. Then, they beat a 48-34 Laker team in the second round...a team that was without BOTH West and Baylor (and in that series, a 34 year-old Chamberlain, a year removed from major knee surgery, and playing in arguably his WORST season...essentially matched a PRIME Kareem, point-for-point, shot-for-shot, and rebound-for-rebound.) Then the Bucks swept a 42-40 Bullets team in the Finals.

It was no wonder that when the Lakers were healthy the very next season (and replaced Baylor with McMillian) that they pounded the 63-19 Bucks in eight of their eleven H2H meetings. And in the '72 WCF's, Chamberlain was UNIVERSALLY acclaimed as having outplayed Kareem. Even the MILWAUKEE press (and the Bucks COACH and PLAYERS) conceded that WILT was the difference in that series. In fact, Time Magazine hailed Chamberlain as DECISIVELY outplaying Kareem. Kareem averaged 35 ppg on 25 FGAs during the NBA regular season, but against Chamberlain in that series, he averaged 33 ppg on 35 FGAs, shooting .457 in that series (in a season in which he shot .574.) AND, in the last four games of that series, Kareem shot a HORRIBLE .414 from the floor (three of them Laker wins.) On top of all of that, Chamberlain had a KNOWN 15 blocks on Kareem's "unblockable" sky-hook, and very likely had 20+ for the entire series. BTW, in the previous round, Nate Thurmond held Kareem to a 22.8 ppg, .405 series.

The very next season, Kareem and Wilt went at it in six regular season games. This would be Wilt's LAST season. In those six games, Kareem outscored Wilt, per game, 29.5 to 11.0 ppg, BUT, Chamberlain outshot Kareem by a staggering .737 to .450 margin. Not only that, but Wilt even had one game in which he outscored Kareem that season, 24-21, and in that game, Chamberlain shot 10-14 to Kareem's 10-27. In that post-season, Kareem once again flopped miserably, as Thurmond held him to .428 shooting, and the 47-35 Warriors stunned the 60-22 Bucks, 4-2 in the first round. In the very next round, Chamberlain just BURIED Thurmond, outrebounding him, per game, 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg, and outshooting him, .550 to .392, as the Lakers romped to a 4-1 series win. I was actually at game three in Oakland, when Wilt's Lakers annihilated that Warrior team, 126-70.

The rest of the decade just got worse for Kareem. In the 73-74 season, Jabbar's 59-23 Bucks were blown out in game seven of the Finals, in a game in which 6-9 Dave Cowens outplayed Kareem in every facet of the game...and especially in the 4th quarter..all on Milwaukee's home floor.

Oscar retired after that season, and Kareem broke his hand, and missed 16 games. The Bucks collapsed to 38-44. (BTW, Chamberlain had one badly sprained wrist, and the other FRACTURED going in game five of the '72 Finals. Not only did Wilt PLAY, he DOMINATED that game...scoring 24 points, on 10-14 shooting, with 29 rebounds, and 9 blocks.) And yet, Kareem would miss CHUNKS of TWO separate seasons with ONE broken wrist. Oh, and BTW, Rick Barry, with one quality teammate, rookie Jamaal (Keith) Wilkes, led his 48-34 Warriors to the title in that 74-75 season. This would mark a string of seasons in which the NBA crowned some of it's WORST champions. As for Wilkes...more on him later.

The Bucks realized that Kareem couldn't carry them, and shipped him off to the Lakers before the start of the 75-76 season. Even without Kareem, the Bucks STILL finished at 38-44 that season, while Kareem's Lakers, with a decent roster, could only go 40-42. This was an interesting season for Kareem, too. Why? I have mentioned it many times, but in Jabbar's 71-72 season, he averaged a career high 44.2 mpg, and a career high 34.8 ppg, with 16.6 rpg, and on .574 shooting. That was on a team that went 63-19, and had a scoring differential of +11.1 ppg. Here was Kareem at his "stats-padding" best. HOWEVER, when he went to an average Laker team in 75-76, did he ELEVATE his game to carry them? Hell no, while he did barely win the rebound title (over 6-9 Cowens...and 6-7 Unseld and 6-7 Silas were not far behind), he only scored 27.7 ppg, and shot .529. AND, he could only play 41.2 mpg. Why couldn't he score 35 ppg with that average roster?

Kareem's 76-77 Lakers went 53-29, which was the BEST record in the league that season. Kareem had a very good regular season, and while he played brilliantly in the playoffs, his team was SWEPT by Walton's 49-33 Blazers. And that Blazer team would go on to win the title.

In the 77-78 season, Kareem was BLESSED with Norm Nixon, Lou Hudson, Adrian Dantley (who was averaging 26.5 ppg when the Lakers acquired him), AND, a more prime Wilkes. Even with that STACKED roster, Kareem's Lakers only went 45-37, and were bounced in the FIRST ROUND by the 47-35 Sonics, and their ONE borderline HOF player, Dennis Johnson. And, once again, the NBA crowned a very weak champion, the 44-38 Bullets.

Kareem had that SAME roster the very next season...and all they could do was go 47-35. And, once again, this time in the second round, they were routed by the 52-30 Sonics, and their ONE borderline HOFer, 4-1.

That was Kareem BEFORE Magic. In the weakest decade in NBA history, Kareem only went to two Finals, winning one (and once again, no other team has ever had an easier road to the title.) Two of his team's didn't even make the playoffs, and the rest were usually early round cannon fodder.

Continued...

[jlauber]

Continuing...

MAGIC's arrival IMMEDIATELY made the Lakers the most dominant team in the decade of the 80's. In the WCF's, and with rookie MAGIC, the Lakers bombed their nemesis, the Sonics, 4-1. In the Finals, Kareem played well in the first five games of the the series, BUT, he sprained his ankle in game five, and would miss game six. (BTW, Chamberlain PLAYED the last FOUR games of the '68 ECF's with THREE different foot and leg injuries...and was noticeable LIMPING in all of them.) So, withOUT Kareem, MAGIC put the Lakers on his back, and in one of the greatest Finals games in NBA history, Magic scored 42 points, with a game high 15 rebounds (WAY ahead of the next best rebounder in that game, who had ten), with seven assists, and on 14-23 shooting from the floor, and 14-14 from the line...in a clinching ROAD win.

Magic was injured in the very next season, and was nowhere near 100% in the playoffs. Which, of course, killed any hope of a repeat. With Moses outplaying Kareem, the 40-42 Rockets knocked out the Lakers in the first round.

Magic came back with a vengeance in the 81-82 season. He nearly averaged a triple double, and then he nearly averaged in a triple-double in the playoffs. He was easily the Lakers best player, and won the Finals MVP. BTW, that 81-82 season would mark the first of EIGHT straight seasons in which Magic would finish ahead of Kareem in the MVP balloting. And, BTW, Magic would also be the Lakers leading REBOUNDER in that season, and in fact, he would outrebound Kareem in several seasons, and in FIVE Finals.

In the 82-83 Finals, the Lakers were without an injured Worthy. In the Finals, Magic played relatively poorly, and Kareem was absolutely abused by Moses...in a sweeping four game loss.

Many observers mistakingly blame MAGIC for the Lakers blown Finals against the Celtics in 83-84. True, he missed TWO FTs in the waning seconds of game four (as did Worthy), and he missed a key shot in game two (but here again, Worthy BLEW that game with an ill-advised pass late in the game.) However, Magic was STILL the Lakers best player in that series. He averaged 18.1 ppg, a team leading 7.3 rpg, a whopping 13.0 apg, and shot an outstanding .560 from the field. Meanwhile, Kareem had a horrible game five of 7-25 shooting, and only shot .481 in the series. In any case, instead of sweeping Boston (and even Bird acknowledged that they should have), the Lakers collectively blew that series.

Kareem did finally have a great Finals in the 84-85 season, BUT, it was MAGIC's all-around play that elevated that entire Laker team in the post-season. LA averaged 126 ppg in the playoffs, primarily because of Magic's ignition of the break. Kareem deservedly won the Finals MVP, but Magic was their real post-season leader.

In the 85-86 season, the Lakers romped to a 62-20 record. During the regular season, a 38 year-old Kareem blew out Hakeem, scoring 40+ on two occasions, including one game of 46 points, on 21-30 shooting, and in only 37 minutes. Over the course of that regular season, he averaged 33.0 ppg on an eye-popping .634 FG% against Hakeem and his Rockets. And, Kareem also dumped a 40 point game on Ewing, and in that game, he held Patrick to 3-17 shooting, and nine points. However, in the post-season, he once again crumbled (albeit, he still hung games of 33 and 31 on the Rockets, but was outplayed by the much younger Hakeem.) The result...a shocking 4-1 loss to that 51-31 Houston team.

Magic then completely took over after that season. He had a season for the ages in 86-87, in leading LA to a dominant title, which included a 4-2 romp over the Celtics. Kareem was only the THIRD best player on that team, and IMHO, the Lakers were so good, that Thompson and Green could have absorbed more minutes, and the Lakers would STILL have won the title. BTW, MAGIC had one of the greatest Finals in NBA HISTORY. He averaged 26 ppg, 8.0 rpg, 13.0 apg, shot .541 from the field, .960 from the line, and even shot .500 from the arc.

The Lakers repeated again in 87-88, DESPITE the AWFUL play of Kareem. With Kareem playing poorly in the entire post-season, and just horribly in the Finals (13 ppg, 4 rpg, and shooting .414), Magic averaged 22 ppg on .550 shooting against the Pistons and Rodman...the same Piston team that held Bird, in his finest regular season of his career, to .351 shooting in the playoffs. Kareem gets credit for a ring, but he was no better than the Lakers FIFTH best player, and in fact, he probably HURT the Lakers in the post-season. Oh, and while Worthy won the Finals MVP, Magic was CLEARLY the Lakers best player in that series, and SHOULD have won his FOURTH Finals MVP.

Magic took the 88-89 Lakers into the Finals, riding an 11-0 playoff mark. However, Byron Scott and his 20 ppg were sorely missed in that series, when he was injured just before the Finals. Magic was injured in mid-way thru game two, and as a result, the Lakers were SWEPT.

Kareem retired following that season...and Magic then took that declining Laker team to a 63-19 record, which was the BEST record in the league, and was the Lakers second best mark of the decade. In fact, LA actually IMPROVED AFTER Kareem retired, going from 57-25 to that 63-19 record.

Then, his LAST season, in 90-91, Magic took the injury-riddled Lakers to a 58-24 record, and a yet another trip to the Finals.

Magic retired after that season...and the Lakers IMMEDIATELY crumbled to a 43-39 mark...which was about what they were BEFORE he arrived. And, then they followed that up with an even worse, 39-43 in 92-93.

CLEARLY, it was MAGIC who took those Laker teams to titles.

[Big164]

Kareem has no excuse for losing to Walton.

He dropped from 6 to 7th on my list when I learned about that series.

[jlauber]

Kareem has no excuse for losing to Walton.

He dropped from 6 to 7th on my list when I learned about that series.

Actually, that may have been Kareem's finest post-season series. However, it was part of a pattern. He either played poorly, in losses, ...or he played well in blow-out series losses. Once again, PRE-MAGIC, his career was considered a big disappointment, despite being the best player in the league in the 70's. He was widely regarded as having under-achieved in that span.

[GS1905]

OK Jlauber. I actually like you right now. Thanks for making my points stronger.

Worthy > Kareem.

[jlauber]

OK Jlauber. I actually like you right now. Thanks for making my points stronger.

Worthy > Kareem.


Well, let's not get carried away here. I loved Worthy as much as anyone, but his career PALES in comparison to Kareem's. Once again, Kareem is a lock for top-5. I don't see him any higher than that, but there is no way he is any lower.

[Smoke117]

Why you guys even bother to TRY and debate with someone who is obviously ignorant and an idiot is beyond me.

[GS1905]

Why you guys even bother to TRY debate with someone who is obviously ignorant and an idiot is beyond me.

Jlauber is not an idiot. All of his points about Kareem are true.

[jlauber]

Why you guys even bother to TRY and debate with someone who is obviously ignorant and an idiot is beyond me.

There is really no right or wrong, but all I ask is for common sense, and consistency here.

There are educated posters, and then there are the moronic posters. It's just too bad that most fall into the latter category.

[jlauber]

Jlauber is not an idiot. All of his points about Kareem are true.


LOL! I guess I can take that as a compliment...

[GS1905]

LOL! I guess I can take that as a compliment...

Don't worry J. I got your back.

[Smoke117]

There is really no right or wrong, but all I ask is for common sense, and consistency here.

There are educated posters, and then there are the moronic posters. It's just too bad that most fall into the latter category.

And this GS1905 is one in that latter category. He actually said Worthy was > Kareem. How can you take anything seriously he said after he uttered such nonsense?

[jlauber]

And this GS1905 is one in that latter category. He actually said Worthy was > Kareem. How can you take anything seriously he said after he uttered such nonsense?

And I didn't agree with it. BUT, I do agree with much of the OP (not all of it...I have Kareem firmly planted in MY top-5.)

[Smoke117]

And I didn't agree with it. BUT, I do agree with much of the OP (not all of it...I have Kareem firmly planted in MY top-5.)

Hard to see how you can ever be overrated if you are top 5. That puts you firmly in the most elite company there is. I wonder why none of these arguments are used against Jordan? A lot of these arguments can be just as valid with him as they are with Kareem, but for some reason Jordan has been deified to the point where he is beyond criticism.

[GS1905]

Hard to see how you can ever be overrated if you are top 5. That puts you firmly in the most elite company there is.

He is overrated because some people say he's the GOAT or he's top3.

[jlauber]

Hard to see how you can ever be overrated if you are top 5. That puts you firmly in the most elite company there is.

Actually, you are right. Like I said earlier... if Kareem is ranked in the top-4, he is probably over-rated, and if he is ranked lower than fifth, he is probably under-rated. I just don't see him having the career that Russell, MJ, Magic, and Chamberlain had. He is #5 on my list...then there is a slight drop-off to Shaq at #6 and Duncan a close #7.

From there you can play musical chairs with Bird, Kobe, Hakeem, Moses, Oscar, West, Pettit, and perhaps even Dr. J. However, I realize that Bird was at one time, considered by some, as a G.O.A.T player, so I just can't see him any lower than tenth. And, even the Kobe-haters have to respect his remarkable career.

[GS1905]

Actually, you are right. Like I said earlier... if Kareem is ranked in the top-4, he is probably over-rated, and if he is ranked lower than fifth, he is probably under-rated. I just don't see him having the career that Russell, MJ, Magic, and Chamberlain had. He is #5 on my list...then there is a slight drop-off to Shaq at #6 and Duncan a close #7.

From there you can play musical chairs with Bird, Kobe, Hakeem, Moses, Oscar, West, Pettit, and perhaps even Dr. J. However, I realize that Bird was at one time, considered by some, as a G.O.A.T player, so I just can't see him any lower than tenth. And, even the Kobe-haters have to respect his remarkable career.

I have Bird at #5 and Kareem at #6 because unlike Kareem Bird was the best player on theCeltics for all 3 championships. I know his team was pretty stacked but he was still the best. Can't say the same for Kareem. He was the best player in the Bucks but again 70s= WEAK. For the rings he won with the Lakers ; Magic > Kareem

[jlauber]

Hard to see how you can ever be overrated if you are top 5. That puts you firmly in the most elite company there is. I wonder why none of these arguments are used against Jordan? A lot of these arguments can be just as valid with him as they are with Kareem, but for some reason Jordan has been deified to the point where he is beyond criticism.

Believe it nor not...I am in your corner here. MJ has a CASE for G.O.A.T., but IMHO, he is not a lock. And I have argued that here many times. Again, I can go with Russell, MJ, Magic, or Wilt in any order. They all have their resumes. Even Kareem has an impressive career resume. Six MVPs, FIVE rings, and TWO Finals MVPs. I just didn't see him as dominant as the others ahead of him. Statistically, his career pales in comparison to Chamberlain. He wasn't the post-season player that MJ was. He wasn't the "winner" that Magic was (and as I pointed out, it was MAGIC who was leading those "Show-Time" teams to titles year-after-year.) And, no one can top Russell's 11 rings (and in only 13 seasons.)

[jlauber]

I have Bird at #5 and Kareem at #6 because unlike Kareem Bird was the best player on theCeltics for all 3 championships. I know his team was pretty stacked but he was still the best. Can't say the same for Kareem. He was the best player in the Bucks but again 70s= WEAK. For the rings he won with the Lakers ; Magic > Kareem

While I don't hold Bird in as high esteem as you do, many other's do. I just don't see it, though. In any case, both were among the greatest ever.

[winwin]

R.I.P KAJ=GOAT he was a great poster


*sheds tear of joy as people are starting to realize the greatness that was KAJ*

First things first,

as has been said before, "greatest of ALL TIMES". Not just one period.
as has been said before, he dominated at every single level.

I know this fact is just killing some Jordan stans out there, you can tell to, by comments like these,
"who cares about college and high school".


Well, looking at March Madness,

I'd say LOTS of people care about the college game.

Looking at the McDonalds All Star game and how many players are praised coming out of high school,

I'd say LOTS of people care about the high school game.


The only reason Jordan stans try to downplay earlier achievements, is because Jordan didn't get enough of them to support their claims.

Heres another angle,

"strength of schedule" so to speak.

KAJ played against 37 of the NBAs 50 greatest players and still amassed tons of awards and stats. Think about that, he played against over half of the NBAs greatest players.

In comparison, Jordan played against, a whopping 14. Thats less than 25%.

Where do people come up with, "Kareem played in a weaker era"?

Because they didn't see it unfold? Thats a joke.

People want to analyze Caps entire career,

but look at only 6 seasons for Jordan.
"oh, well, but, because, um, well, yea, "


Kareem has been a proven winner right off the bat.
Jordan was scrambling to make the damn team.


What looks better, the Lakers winning against the Magic for the championship, or winning against the Hawks?


Whats funny is over half the people arguing Jordans case,

never even seen him play. They're going off of what they've heard, or seen in highlights.


If one is trying to argue against
3 straight NYC titles
3 straight NCAA titles, most likely would have been four had he been allowed to lead his team as a freshman as is today,
6 NBA titles,

they need to have their head examined.

That is complete dominance at every single level. He didn't have to be taught how to be a winner or teammate.

He just was.

I know some stans are hurt by the facts and refuse to acknowledge what the truth is,

but Michael Jordan,

played for more than 6 years. In those 6 years he was an absolute beastly monster.

However, it doesn't add up to a lifetime of achievements on the basketball court.

A lifetime of achievements, not just one era.

"oh, but nobody cares about anything but the pros".

Really? Why is this guy on the team?

http://www.nba.com/media/bulls/jordan6_090824.jpg


"oh, but nobody cares about the college game"

Really?

http://www.nbaloud.com/images/michael-jordan-unc-sports-illustrated-cover-with-s1.jpg



I guess SI is just some third rate blog right?


Facts kids, learn to deal with them.

[jlauber]

No doubt it...Kareem (Lew Alcindor) was the greatest college player ever. Think about this...his teams went 88-2 in his three years (and averaged about a +25.0 ppg differential BTW.) Those two losses? By scores of 71-69 and 46-44. Incidently, he was playing partially blind in that 71-69 loss to Elvin Hayes' Houston Cougars. And, the two teams met again later that season in the NCAA Semis. UCLA routed the Cougars, 101-69, in a game that was not even that close (the Bruins led by 44 points in the second half.) FOUR points away from going 90-0. Not only that, but in his freshman season, when freshmen were not allowed to play, his freshmen squad beat the then #1 ranked varsity in a scrimmage, 75-60, in which Alcindor scored 31 points with 21 rebounds. He might very well have won FOUR NCAA titles in a row had freshmen been allowed to play.

[JellyBean]

:banghead:

[millwad]

OP, first you think Hakeem is overrated for being considered a top 10 player and now Kareem is overrated too?

Don't tell me that you're a Wilt buttyboy a la JBieber..

[Big164]

I rank Bird higher than kaj because he didn't need the no 1 and no 2 greatest pg of all time to win his rings.

Kareem is ridiculously over rated considering the guys he played with.

[Unstoppabull]

What's with all the overrated threads? Someone ban this clown... :facepalm