Playes w/ MVP, Championship, Finals MVP, 20k pts, & 10+ All-Star Games

[greensborohill]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Larry Bird
Kobe Bryant
Wilt Chamberlain
Tim Duncan
Michael Jordan
Moses Malone
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'Neal
Dirk Nowitzki

That's an impressive list. If you take out the 20k point requirement then Magic would also be on the list. Bob Pettit would have probably been on this list if a Finals MVP was given out when he won the title in 58. Russell was probably robbed b/c they gave out the Finals MVP for the first time in 69, and it was given to a player from the losing team, Jerry West. That was Russell's last season.

[Burgz]

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Larry Bird
Kobe Bryant
Wilt Chamberlain
Tim Duncan
Michael Jordan
Moses Malone
Hakeem Olajuwon
Shaquille O'Neal
Dirk Nowitzki

That's an impressive list. If you take out the 20k point requirement then Magic would also be on the list. Bob Pettit would have probably been on this list if a Finals MVP was given out when he won the title in 58. Russell was probably robbed b/c they gave out the Finals MVP for the first time in 69, and it was given to a player from the losing team, Jerry West. That was Russell's last season.

he has 10+ allstar appearances? played with KG and Duncan in his conference for the majority of his career, if that's right that's pretty boss

[DMAVS41]

he has 10+ allstar appearances? played with KG and Duncan in his conference for the majority of his career, if that's right that's pretty boss

This was his tenth this year. He's made it every year since 02 I believe.

[Yao Ming's Foot]

This was his tenth this year. He's made it every year since 02 I believe.

He only started 2 of them.

Playes w/ MVP, Championship, Finals MVP, 20k pts, & started 10+ All-Star Games

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Michael Jordan

[shaq's--lakers]

"The Big Boy table" = Russel - Jorden - ShaQ

Players who have won a 3-Peat and all 3 Finals MVP

[greensborohill]

He only started 2 of them.

Playes w/ MVP, Championship, Finals MVP, 20k pts, & started 10+ All-Star Games

Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
Kobe Bryant
Tim Duncan
Michael Jordan


All-star starts are a popularity contest, you should know that, just look at your screen name!

[greensborohill]

"The Big Boy table" = Russel - Jorden - ShaQ

Players who have won a 3-Peat and all 3 Finals MVP

There was no Finals MVP when Russell was winning his.

[shaq's--lakers]

There was no Finals MVP when Russell was winning his.

True.....But we know he was the Finals MVP. No need to debate that

Kobe had a chance to join the table......But he got sweept

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

All-star starts are a popularity contest, you should know that, just look at your screen name!

So why include them in your thread title?

[greensborohill]

So why include them in your thread title?

I said All-Star STARTS. A ton of those guys made it as reserves which are voted on by coaches.

[bdreason]

I'd like to see 10+ All-Star appearances replaced with 10+ All-NBA appearances.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I said All-Star STARTS

And reserves aren't voted by the fans? I'm with bdreason here; that seems a bit more logical.

[greensborohill]

I'd like to see 10+ All-Star appearances replaced with 10+ All-NBA appearances.

Same list

[greensborohill]

And reserves aren't voted by the fans? I'm with bdreason here; that seems a bit more logical.


No,they are voted in by coaches.

[DMAVS41]

I'd like to see 10+ All-Star appearances replaced with 10+ All-NBA appearances.

How about 10+ all star, 10+ all nba, a regular season mvp, a title, a finals mvp, and 10+ seasons of at least 50 wins.

Dirk makes that list. Not sure how many others do.

[greensborohill]

How about 10+ all star, 10+ all nba, a regular season mvp, a title, a finals mvp, and 10+ seasons of at least 50 wins.

Dirk makes that list. Not sure how many others do.

Dirk & Duncan

[DMAVS41]

Dirk & Duncan

Has to be more than that.

[Odinn]

How about 10+ all star, 10+ all nba, a regular season mvp, a title, a finals mvp, and 10+ seasons of at least 50 wins.

Dirk makes that list. Not sure how many others do.
Jordan;
50-59 wins - 3 times
60+ wins - 5 times

Bird;
50-59 wins - 6 times
60+ wins - 6 times

Shaq;
50-59 wins - 10 times (1998-99 Lakers' pace was 51 wins)
60+ wins - 3 times

Kobe;
50-59 wins - 7 times (1998-99 Lakers' pace was 51 wins)
60+ wins - 2 times

Duncan;
50-59 wins - 10 times
60+ wins - 4 times (1998-99 Spurs' pace was 61 wins)
Never less than 50 wins.

Nowitzki;
50-59 wins - 8 times
60+ wins - 3 times
All of these, consecutive.

Addition;

Magic;
50-59 wins - 6 times
60+ wins - 6 times (4 of them consecutive)

Kareem;
50-59 wins - 8 times
60+ wins - 8 times

[greensborohill]

Has to be more than that.

my bad, I was thinking 10 50's in a row.

[Duncan21formvp]

Good list

[Yao Ming's Foot]

All-star starts are a popularity contest, you should know that, just look at your screen name!

Prime Duncan and Garnett were simply better. Better players are more popular. :confusedshrug:

[greensborohill]

NBA Finals MVP's are great things to have!!

Plus 10 or more 50+ win seasons. It shows you are a top 20 all-time player.

[Ronaldinho]

How about 10+ all star, 10+ all nba, a regular season mvp, a title, a finals mvp, and 10+ seasons of at least 50 wins.

Dirk makes that list. Not sure how many others do.
And only two finals?

And how about a player who made the finals 7 of 9 times that he had a season being a starter and a star on the team with at least 50 wins?

[sbw19]

How about the rare combo of slamdunk contest winner + DPOY? (easy answer, though soomewhat odd company)

Or 3pt contest winner + FMVP winner (also has an odd man out) ?

[G-Funk]

This thread is like raid for roaches to Lebron/Wade homers! I likes

[lilgodfather1]

How about the rare combo of slamdunk contest winner + DPOY? (easy answer, though soomewhat odd company)

Or 3pt contest winner + FMVP winner (also has an odd man out) ?

I know MJ and Dwight for DPOY + SDC and Pierce for the 3pt contest + FMVP?

[lilgodfather1]

This thread is like raid for roaches to Lebron/Wade homers! I likes
This thread is a bunch of arbitrary things. It's like me saying players with a 27/7/7 career average list: LeBron James. Does it really mean any thing? Not at all.

[Burgz]

How about 10+ all star, 10+ all nba, a regular season mvp, a title, a finals mvp, and 10+ seasons of at least 50 wins.

Dirk makes that list. Not sure how many others do.

tim duncan
shaq
kobe

[DMAVS41]

And only two finals?

And how about a player who made the finals 7 of 9 times that he had a season being a starter and a star on the team with at least 50 wins?

It was a joke to show how arbitrary some of this can be.

I do think the leading a team to 11 consecutive 50 win seasons is worth mentioning.....the all stars don't do anything for me. the all nba stuff is good. i also think top 10 mvp voting is worth something....even though its straight opinion on the order...usually the elite players make the top 10.

And if you are a Kobe guy....I'll exclude him from my list by adding a criteria of having a regular season PER of 23.7 or better and a playoff PER of 22.3 or better. Dirk hits those....Kobe doesn't.....ROFL

[vinsane01]

This thread is a bunch of arbitrary things. It's like me saying players with a 27/7/7 career average list: LeBron James. Does it really mean any thing? Not at all.

Not really that arbitrary since its a trend which the top and most accomplished nba players in history had in common.

[lilgodfather1]

Not really that arbitrary since its a trend which the top and most accomplished nba players in history had in common.
It is arbitray. You make the list 12 all star games and it cuts the list down, say 15 all star games and it cuts the list down, etc. And a list with Dirk on it as best and most accomplished player in NBA history should tell you what you need to know about it. Dirk is great, but if you did a ranking today LeBron would still be above him without a ring or a FMVP. Dirk is an all time great, but he is not even a top 3 at his position (one that isn't really that stacked).

[DMAVS41]

It is arbitray. You make the list 12 all star games and it cuts the list down, say 15 all star games and it cuts the list down, etc. And a list with Dirk on it as best and most accomplished player in NBA history should tell you what you need to know about it. Dirk is great, but if you did a ranking today LeBron would still be above him without a ring or a FMVP. Dirk is an all time great, but he is not even a top 3 at his position (one that isn't really that stacked).

PF is absolutely stacked. What are you talking about?

Duncan/Barkley/Malone/KG/Pettit/Dirk....that is 6 guys in the top 20 all time usually.

And Lebron absolutely does not deserve to be ahead of Dirk all time yet.

[lilgodfather1]

PF is absolutely stacked. What are you talking about?

Duncan/Barkley/Malone/KG/Pettit/Dirk....that is 6 guys in the top 20 all time usually.

And Lebron absolutely does not deserve to be ahead of Dirk all time yet.
Why does Dirk deserve to be ahead of LeBron? A ring doesn't change things that much. Duncan and Malone are the only really great players on that list, The others are obviously great, but not like the other positions. If you look at PG there is 1 player in the top 10, SG there is 2-3 (depending on if you include West or not), SF and PF only have 1, and C has 4 (Shaq,Wilt, Kareem, Russell).

The second PF all time is at best number 18 on the all time list. And the next two that you listed don't even have rings.

[Burgz]

PF is absolutely stacked. What are you talking about?

Duncan/Barkley/Malone/KG/Pettit/Dirk....that is 6 guys in the top 20 all time usually.

And Lebron absolutely does not deserve to be ahead of Dirk all time yet.

LeBron willbe ahead of Dirk one day but not today

as of Dirk being top 20? that's highly debatable. He wasn't nearly as devastating all around as duncan, KG, Barkley, Malone etc were

he's a great rebounder for his skillset, but not for his position and he isn't known to lock someone down, but he can shoot better than them all. I don't think you put someone in the top 20 because he does one thing really well and others they are mediocre, top 20 should be players that played both sides of the ball

[97 bulls]

LeBron willbe ahead of Dirk one day but not today

as of Dirk being top 20? that's highly debatable. He wasn't nearly as devastating all around as duncan, KG, Barkley, Malone etc were

he's a great rebounder for his skillset, but not for his position and he isn't known to lock someone down, but he can shoot better than them all. I don't think you put someone in the top 20 because he does one thing really well and others they are mediocre, top 20 should be players that played both sides of the ball
If your talking about both sides of the ball then the ranking becomes totally different. Barkley is a terrible defender, so is magic, bird is questionable, dirk is out too. This is what a lot of people don't undeerstand. The all-time ranking are based on accomplishments. Not talent. And what a player accomplishes is mainly based on having the most talented team. Its a flawed way of thinking.

[DMAVS41]

LeBron willbe ahead of Dirk one day but not today

as of Dirk being top 20? that's highly debatable. He wasn't nearly as devastating all around as duncan, KG, Barkley, Malone etc were

he's a great rebounder for his skillset, but not for his position and he isn't known to lock someone down, but he can shoot better than them all. I don't think you put someone in the top 20 because he does one thing really well and others they are mediocre, top 20 should be players that played both sides of the ball

If you have a different criteria than the norm, I respect that. I'm going off the accepted criteria that is used here, in the media, and most GOAT lists. I will say that you are seriously under-rating that "one thing" when evaluating Dirk.

And if defense is a huge factor for you, Barkley should be nowhere near any top 20 list either.

And that is why your GOAT list would be flawed imo....Barkley was just simply one of the 20 best players of all time. Even though he didn't play defense and didn't care about it at all....as he's admitted.

Duncan is the clear cut best pf I've ever seen. I didn't see Pettit, but really no other pf has much of a case over Duncan based on the accepted criteria. After that I have KG/Barkley/Malone/Dirk/Pettit pretty much neck and neck. I rank KG slightly over all of them....then Dirk...the rest could go in any order although I do feel like people under-rate Malone a bit.

But its not crazy to rank Dirk over every pf other than Duncan all time. He's simply accomplished so much and objectively he comes off very well. Its not some random happening that Dirk is probably a top 20 player of all time just off stats alone. Then factor in what he's accomplished now and I think its pretty much cemented at this point. Certainly will be if Dirk plays a few more quality years.

[PowerGlove]

But its not crazy to rank Dirk over every pf other than Duncan all time. He's simply accomplished so much and objectively he comes off very well. Its not some random happening that Dirk is probably a top 20 player of all time just off stats alone. Then factor in what he's accomplished now and I think its pretty much cemented at this point. Certainly will be if Dirk plays a few more quality years.
:oldlol:

Seriously?

[DMAVS41]

:oldlol:

Seriously?

http://nbalegacy.blogspot.com/2011/06/nba-legacy-all-time-25-june-2011.html

http://basketballjournalist.blogspot.com/2011/07/ranking-top-100-players-in-nba-history.html

Yep, they must be total morons and huge Dirk homers.

:lol

[greensborohill]

lol, I knew this was coming. Seriously, you fvckers CANT STAND the fact that Dirk won a title this year. It eats at your FVCKING SOUL that he's put himself on that list. You probably beat your dog over it. Seriously, you can't even have a thread listing all-time greats w/o having your obdulaoblongata gettting all twitchy and having to getting into an arguement. What the fvck is up with you people?

[DMAVS41]

lol, I knew this was coming. Seriously, you fvckers CANT STAND the fact that Dirk won a title this year. It eats at your FVCKING SOUL that he's put himself on that list. You probably beat your dog over it. Seriously, you can't even have a thread listing all-time greats w/o having your obdulaoblongata gettting all twitchy and having to getting into an arguement. What the fvck is up with you people?

Yea, its funny because I still have KG higher all time...and I'm totally cool with Pettit as well and even some others.

I just love how people act like you have to be the biggest Dirk homer of all time to rank him in the top 20 or as the 2nd best pf ever.

Then I show two links that have him right in that range....one with him as the 2nd best pf ever.....

LOL....so whoever created those lists are just huge Dirk fans? :roll:

[Burgz]

If you have a different criteria than the norm, I respect that. I'm going off the accepted criteria that is used here, in the media, and most GOAT lists. I will say that you are seriously under-rating that "one thing" when evaluating Dirk.

And if defense is a huge factor for you, Barkley should be nowhere near any top 20 list either.

And that is why your GOAT list would be flawed imo....Barkley was just simply one of the 20 best players of all time. Even though he didn't play defense and didn't care about it at all....as he's admitted.

Duncan is the clear cut best pf I've ever seen. I didn't see Pettit, but really no other pf has much of a case over Duncan based on the accepted criteria. After that I have KG/Barkley/Malone/Dirk/Pettit pretty much neck and neck. I rank KG slightly over all of them....then Dirk...the rest could go in any order although I do feel like people under-rate Malone a bit.

But its not crazy to rank Dirk over every pf other than Duncan all time. He's simply accomplished so much and objectively he comes off very well. Its not some random happening that Dirk is probably a top 20 player of all time just off stats alone. Then factor in what he's accomplished now and I think its pretty much cemented at this point. Certainly will be if Dirk plays a few more quality years.

Barkley could score and if my memory serves me right was one of the greatest rebounders the game has everseen :rolleyes:

if you're going off the accepted criteria in a forum full of people that never even watched basketball prior to 2000 then it is more likely your precedent and arguments are flawed

the defensive aspect i introduced to the argument was intended to all the pfs i mentioned but you singled out barkley to prove a point which you failed in doing because you neglected the fact that KG, Malone, Duncan were all better defenders than dirk. Even though Barkley was less than motivated on D I'd STILL take him over Dirk as a defender.

Dirk is one of the greatest shooters to play the game and has one of the most unique skill sets the game has ever seen, but he is not a better rebounder or defender than any of those PFs above, and out of the 4 that were mentioned is arguably the 3rd best scorer (behind Duncan and Malone). IMO that doesn't warrant you an automatic top 20 berth

[DMAVS41]

Barkley could score and if my memory serves me right was one of the greatest rebounders the game has everseen :rolleyes:

if you're going off the accepted criteria in a forum full of people that never even watched basketball prior to 2000 then it is more likely your precedent and arguments are flawed

the defensive aspect i introduced to the argument was intended to all the pfs i mentioned but you singled out barkley to prove a point which you failed in doing because you neglected the fact that KG, Malone, Duncan were all better defenders than dirk. Even though Barkley was less than motivated on D I'd STILL take him over Dirk as a defender.

Dirk is one of the greatest shooters to play the game and has one of the most unique skill sets the game has ever seen, but he is not a better rebounder or defender than any of those PFs above, and out of the 4 that were mentioned is arguably the 3rd best scorer (behind Duncan and Malone). IMO that doesn't warrant you an automatic top 20 berth

The accepted criteria here is what really the entire basketball world uses....LOL at acting like its just a bunch of teenagers. I guess Mark Jackson, Van Gundy, Simmons, Pippen...etc....and countless other basketball historians and blogs just started watching 10 years.

Sorry....nope.

If you don't like that criteria and want to use another one. I'm totally cool with it. However, I still think Dirk belongs in the top 20 all time just on objective measures alone. Like him or not, you don't put up his numbers without being a true all time great.

[SCdac]

That's an impressive list. If you take out the 20k point requirement then Magic would also be on the list. Bob Pettit would have probably been on this list if a Finals MVP was given out when he won the title in 58. Russell was probably robbed b/c they gave out the Finals MVP for the first time in 69, and it was given to a player from the losing team, Jerry West. That was Russell's last season.

Yeah, Bob Pettit was the first player ever to hit 20,000 points. Definitely deserves mention.

Wish I could have watched him in his prime. He's basically what a power forward should be. Strong, back to the basket, scorer.

[Unstoppabull]

Interesting list, thank you

How about a list which players have at least one MVP, at least one FMVP, at least one ASG MVP, at least one title, and at least 10 ALL NBA first selections?

[RRR3]

The accepted criteria here is what really the entire basketball world uses....LOL at acting like its just a bunch of teenagers. I guess Mark Jackson, Van Gundy, Simmons, Pippen...etc....and countless other basketball historians and blogs just started watching 10 years.

Sorry....nope.

If you don't like that criteria and want to use another one. I'm totally cool with it. However, I still think Dirk belongs in the top 20 all time just on objective measures alone. Like him or not, you don't put up his numbers without being a true all time great.
LOL Mark Jackson said Kobe was better than MJ.

[Vienceslav]

Interesting list, thank you

How about a list which players have at least one MVP, at least one FMVP, at least one ASG MVP, at least one title, and at least 10 ALL NBA first selections?
Jordan.

[Odinn]

Interesting list, thank you

How about a list which players have at least one MVP, at least one FMVP, at least one ASG MVP, at least one title, and at least 10 ALL NBA first selections?
Only Jordan.

But ASG MVP irrelevant IMO. Kobe has 4, Shaq has 2, Duncan has 1, Bird has 1. An award for only 1 game...

Which players have at least one MVP, at least one FMVP, at least one title, and at least 10 ALL NBA first selections?
Jordan & Kareem.

PS: Bob Pettit only 1 FMVP away to be mentioned. We know in his time there was no FMVP. Exact same thing can be said for Bob Cousy.

[PowerGlove]

http://nbalegacy.blogspot.com/2011/06/nba-legacy-all-time-25-june-2011.html

http://basketballjournalist.blogspot.com/2011/07/ranking-top-100-players-in-nba-history.html

Yep, they must be total morons and huge Dirk homers.

:lol

Two blogs???? Is this evidence now?

[Soothing Layup]

I'd rank dirk the 3rd best PF ever behind Duncan and Pettit. If Dirk has another solid year he is definitely going to move up to 2nd place.

[DMAVS41]

Two blogs???? Is this evidence now?

And where is your evidence?'

I wasn't using them as evidence that its a fact or something....I was just showing you that other people (other than huge Dirk fans like myself).....rank Dirk exactly where I do....often times higher than I do.

So again....you still feel that the people behind those are blind homers? Oh, and by the way, the 2nd one is a compilation of over 9 all time ranking lists.....

[97 bulls]

I'd rank dirk the 3rd best PF ever behind Duncan and Pettit. If Dirk has another solid year he is definitely going to move up to 2nd place.
Dirk is not the 3rd best pf ever. Both malone and barkley are better scorers, and rebounders, and malone is the better defender.

The overrating of dirk is reaching epic proportions.

[PowerGlove]

And where is your evidence?'

I wasn't using them as evidence that its a fact or something....I was just showing you that other people (other than huge Dirk fans like myself).....rank Dirk exactly where I do....often times higher than I do.

So again....you still feel that the people behind those are blind homers? Oh, and by the way, the 2nd one is a compilation of over 9 all time ranking lists.....
My evidence is common sense.

[Dizzle-2k7]

:bowdown:

throw some ALL NBA DEFENSIVE TEAMS... maybe minimum requirement of 5..

DUNCAN :bowdown: :bowdown:
JORDAN :bowdown: :bowdown:

[creepingdeath]

My evidence is common sense.
Dude... but you didn't even watch those other guys.

Anyhow, I don't think Dirk gives a rat's a$$ about his legacy. And who knows? Maybe he will three-peat, maybe he will never again have a great season as the previous one and in a decade no one mentions him again. :confusedshrug:

So everyone just please enjoy being a prisoner of the moment. :banana:

[bluechox2]

all star starts are overrated , its a popularity contest which doesn't signify anything

[DMAVS41]

My evidence is common sense.

So anyone that ranks Dirk where many do lacks common sense?

[PowerGlove]

Dude... but you didn't even watch those other guys.

Anyhow, I don't think Dirk gives a rat's a$$ about his legacy. And who knows? Maybe he will three-peat, maybe he will never again have a great season as the previous one and in a decade no one mentions him again. :confusedshrug:

So everyone just please enjoy being a prisoner of the moment. :banana:
I didnt watch Barkley/Malone/Duncan???

:oldlol:

I guess you cant watch old games on the internet and TV anymore.:rolleyes:

[PowerGlove]

So anyone that ranks Dirk where many do lacks common sense?

Many people rank Dirk right behind Duncan in the goat pf discussion?:facepalm

[creepingdeath]

I didnt watch Barkley/Malone/Duncan???

:oldlol:

I guess you cant watch old games on the internet and TV anymore.:rolleyes:
Z

[DMAVS41]

Many people rank Dirk right behind Duncan in the goat pf discussion?:facepalm

What? Have I ever had Dirk over Duncan?

Moron....

[PowerGlove]

What? Have I ever had Dirk over Duncan?

Moron....
Can you read???

How in the hell do you get that out of what I said?

[PowerGlove]

[QUOTE=creepingdeath]Z

[creepingdeath]

Wait what???

Do I have to watch each player in person to accurately guage how good they are? Are you telling me that watching seasons of their games isnt enough?:eek:
That depends on the amount of games you've watched. I can't tell how well you are informed about those guys, so I'll just give you the benefit of doubt. But it's the reason why I have problems ranking guys from the early 80s or earlier... sure, there's footage, there are statistics.. but there's no way I'll ever be able to grasp the whole picture.

I digress... so: Dirk > Lebron. Let's call that my trolling post of the day (actually, I have to admit it's my second). :lol

[DMAVS41]

Can you read???

How in the hell do you get that out of what I said?

Because I never said I have Dirk close to Duncan or over him....I've repeatedly said I have Duncan and KG over Dirk...and I've repeatedly said I don't think Dirk is all that close to Duncan.

And yes, some people (that aren't Dirk fans) do rank him as the 2nd best pf ever now.

Deal with it.

[WillC]

Best PFs of all-time:

1 - Tim Duncan (8th)
2 - Bob Pettit (16th)
3 - Dirk Nowitzki (18th)
4 - Karl Malone (19th)
5 - Charles Barkley (20th)
6 - Kevin Garnett (24th)

Hopefully some food for thought can be found in this article: http://basketballjournalist.blogspot.com/2011/08/nowitzki-vs-barkley-garnett-malone.html