Penny Hardaway in his peak vs. Allen Iverson in his peak

[ThaSwagg3r]

Who do you think the better player was and who would you rather have? I thought this comparison was good since in the ISH Top 25 guards of all-time project Penny's name was brought up a lot. I saw this comparison on other sites before so I thought this comparison was legit.

[NugzHeat3]

Penny and it's not that hard of a decision for me.

Iverson, for all the things he accomplished as an undersized 2 guard, is still a massive underachiever.

[pauk]

Penny Peak = Rookie/Sophomore Lebron clone

Penny > Iverson

[NugzHeat3]

Penny Peak = Rookie/Sophomore Lebron clone

Penny > Iverson
:oldlol: :oldlol:

I don't remember Penny being MIA in the 1995 finals.

[Clippersfan86]

Wow.... You guys are taking Penny in this comparison? That's like me asking you who you'd take.. Blake Griffin or Andris Biedrins. Allen Iverson, not even close.

Penny's absolute peak was 21.7 ppg, 4.5 rpg and 7 apg and that was only for one season. Allen had at LEAST 5 seasons more dominant than that and had much more longevity.

[mattvNJ]

Wow.... You guys are taking Penny in this comparison? That's like me asking you who you'd take.. Blake Griffin or Andris Biedrins. Allen Iverson, not even close.

Penny's absolute peak was 21.7 ppg, 4.5 rpg and 7 apg and that was only for one season. Allen had at LEAST 5 seasons more dominant than that and had much more longevity.

:cheers: truth. A.i > Penny

[Miller for 3]

Give AI a prime Shaq and this wouldnt be a contest at all. AI had no other offense help around him at all in his prime. Once he finally got some 3pt shooters or a legit go to option in Melo, he was easily putting up 25+ ppg on over 45% shooting PAST his prime. Iverson > Penny, who gets overrated more and more as time passes

[TheLogo]

Give me Penny all day.

Put Penny down as one of three guards to carry Shaq.

[Smoke117]

Penny Hardaway.

[TheLogo]

I am glad people are finally overrating Shaq by choosing Penny.

People finally see the value of guards that had played with Shaq.

[RRR3]

Allen Iverson easily.

[NugzHeat3]

Give AI a prime Shaq and this wouldnt be a contest at all. AI had no other offense help around him at all in his prime. Once he finally got some 3pt shooters or a legit go to option in Melo, he was easily putting up 25+ ppg on over 45% shooting PAST his prime. Iverson > Penny, who gets overrated more and more as time passes

Just for the record, Shaq had very little impact on Penny's game and if anything, Penny was held back (in the statistical sense) because the Magic ran the offense through Shaq.

The players that benefitted from Shaq's presence were guys like Dennis Scott, Nick Anderson, Brian Shaw and Horace Grant. Teams would rarely double off of Penny.

When Shaq went down in the 1995-96 season cause of a thumb injury, Penny led them to a 17-5 record and put up some great stats in the process. That 17-5 record was the second best in the league at the time, second only to the Bulls.

With Shaq out, they were able to run an uptempo offense getting a lot of opportunities and buckets in transition. And that shows Penny had the great ability to run a team in the half-court set and transition.

In the next season, Orlando had several changes in their line up but Hardaway's impact was clear. He had a lot of nagging injuries but on-court, he was still impacting games as evident by their 38-21 (64%) record with him and 7-16 (30%) w/o him.

He also nearly took the HEAT down singlehandedly and torched a good defender in Voshon Lenard. He had back to back 40 point games and did better against the same defense that held Jordan to sub-40 shooting in the ECF. I know I feared Penny more in that game 5 than I did Jordan.

[kkling]

Penny.

[jlip]

Did we really ever see Penny's peak?

[HylianNightmare]

iverson, not close

[Ikill]

Give AI a prime Shaq and this wouldnt be a contest at all. AI had no other offense help around him at all in his prime. Once he finally got some 3pt shooters or a legit go to option in Melo, he was easily putting up 25+ ppg on over 45% shooting PAST his prime. Iverson > Penny, who gets overrated more and more as time passes
this. If 30 year old Iverson could do 26 points on 45% with 7 assists playing with Carmelo Anthony imagine what type of numbers prime Allen Iverson could put up playing with Shaq.

[Kellogs4toniee]

Ignoring the obvious trolls,

Iverson and it's not even close IMO. In terms of longevity and career, Iverson dominated for a much longer time than Penny did. Penny had what? ... three seasons where he had over 20 PPG, never topping 22. He was a great player for sure, but he never had to shoulder the load that Iverson did for like 10 straight years.

Iverson dominated more, shouldered more, went to the finals with the second best player on his team not even coming close to half of Iversons skills.... defenses were trained to double and triple him for 10 straight seasons, and still he won multiple scoring titles and torched defenses night in and night out as a 6'0 under-sized 2 guard.

To go back to the OP's question. In terms of prime? You give me Iverson's MVP season where he had over 30 PPG / 4.6 / 3.8 / 2.5 steals... sorry but Penny does not even come close to touching that. Someone already mentioned this, but you put a prime Iverson with Shaq and it's GG for the league. I dare you to ask any player, GM, or expert who would say otherwise. Ignore the trolls.

Then you factor in other conditions, such as the way that Iverson changed the way the NBA was played, dressed, rule changes like the carry... Penny was a popular player but he never affected the way kids played ball like the way Iverson did.

So longevity ? Iverson easily.
Prime? Iverson easily.
Other conditions ? Iverson easily.

Injuries are a bi0tch Penny, you were a great player, but Iverson takes this EASILY.

[kaiiu]

AI not close bitches

[NuggetsFan]

As others have said, Iverson. Iverson was just more dominant individually.

[Tide]

Penny never had the opportunity to reach his peak to be honest.

I think it's safe to say if Penny wasn't so injury prone he'd have an mvp and a ring.

[NuggetsFan]

I think it's safe to say if Penny wasn't so injury prone he'd have an mvp and a ring.

Considering how many great players have failed to win a ring I don't think it's that safe to say .. and MVP too.

[eliteballer]

Iverson but Penny would be better on certain teams. I still remember him killing Pippen in the playoffs.

[L.Kizzle]

Hey, Prime Tim Hardaway both!!

[Bigsmoke]

Iverson.. duh

[Bigsmoke]

Hey, Prime Tim Hardaway both!!

:no:

Iverson would rip apart Run TMC

[L.Kizzle]

:no:

Iverson would rip apart Run TMC
Uh, Hardaway would put up the same number if he was the only scoring option on his team.

[G-train]

For those that werent born check out Penny in the 97 playoffs, looked like the second greatest player ever.

If 2 games are a peak I take Penny :oldlol: , if 3 years are a peak I take Iverson but its closer than most think.

[JohnnySic]

Iverson by far. AI carried bad teams on his back. Put Penny on a bad team, and he would have been just another good guy.

[L.Kizzle]

Iverson by far. AI carried bad teams on his back. Put Penny on a bad team, and he would have been just another good guy.
So Penny would basically be Ricky Davis if on a bad team?

[G-train]

Iverson by far. AI carried bad teams on his back. Put Penny on a bad team, and he would have been just another good guy.

Yeah dude thats a pretty bad post.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Iverson by far. AI carried bad teams on his back. Put Penny on a bad team, and he would have been just another good guy.
Penny's career after Shaq, slowly faded due to injuries. He was quite impressive in '96-'97 though especially in the '97 playoffs. He only played 59 games in the '96-'97 regular season due to injuries.

Magic got eliminated in the 1st round by the Heat in '97 but Penny was the only reason why the series even got close. Penny played mediocre in Game 1 but he was fantastic for the rest of the series.

Game 1: 13/4/3/4, 6/16 shooting - L
Game 2: 26 points, 10/20 shooting - L
Game 3: 42/8/2, 16/30 shooting - W
Game 4: 41/7/4/4/3, 12-23 shooting - W
Game 5: 33/10/6, 8-22 shooting - L.

Penny was also pretty good with Phoenix when he played with Jason Kidd. Although he continued to be injury riddled and his career slowly started to fadeaway he still played great in the playoffs.

I have no problem with anyone taking AI but your reasons aren't the best.

[Bigsmoke]

Uh, Hardaway would put up the same number if he was the only scoring option on his team.

yeah ok.

If this true then maybe he would have won a ring with HOFers playing with him http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/BigSmokes/rimshot.gif

[ZaaaaaH]

These youngens who saying AI and its not even close are obviously 12.

Penny's impact might not show all in stats but he made back 2 back 1st team in his 2nd and 3rd year but fail to make any after that due to serious injury.

I take Penny all day everyday but its very close since AI was a Little Monster during his prime but I might be little bias since Penny is one of my favorite player.

[L.Kizzle]

yeah ok.

If this true then maybe he would have won a ring with HOFers playing with him http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/BigSmokes/rimshot.gif
It took Chris Mullin like 4 tries to make the Hall of Fame (no hate, but it is what it is.) It's not like he was Rick Barry when he played for the Warriors.

Sayin Tim couldn't win with Mullin is like saying Pistol Pete couldn't win with Walt Bellamy.

If Tim could put up 23 points with Mullin hittin 26 and Richmond hitting 22, what make you think he can't put up 30 with out those guys? Maybe he could, maybe he couldn't but it was in his reach.

[Bigsmoke]

These youngens who saying AI and its not even close are obviously 12.
Penny's impact might not show all in stats but he made back 2 back 1st team in his 2nd and 3rd year but fail to make any after that due to serious injury.

I take Penny all day everyday but its very close since AI was a Little Monster during his prime but I might be little bias since Penny is one of my favorite player.

Iverson was a better player... period.


Penny is a player filled "would have been's" and Iverson in his prime BEEN that shit. "MVP, All Star MVP, Scoring titles, Finals as a 1st Option, 50+ point games in the playoffs... ect.

[Bigsmoke]

It took Chris Mullin like 4 tries to make the Hall of Fame (no hate, but it is what it is.) It's not like he was Rick Barry when he played for the Warriors. Sayin Tim couldn't win with Mullin is like saying Pistol Pete couldn't win with Walt Bellamy. If Tim could put up 23 points with Mullin hittin 26 and Richmond hitting 22, what make you think he can't put up 30 with out those guys? Maybe he could, maybe he couldn't but it was in his reach.

I forgot that the NBA back then allowed like 115 points each game.

Put Iverson in a 90's Don Nelson offense :eek:

[D.J.]

Give AI a prime Shaq and this wouldnt be a contest at all. AI had no other offense help around him at all in his prime. Once he finally got some 3pt shooters or a legit go to option in Melo, he was easily putting up 25+ ppg on over 45% shooting PAST his prime. Iverson > Penny, who gets overrated more and more as time passes


The only time Iverson had any success was when he was the only scoring option. '01 was the only year he got past round 2. Penny was a more complete player, provided more mismatches, and was a better defender because of his length. He didn't gamble like Iverson did.

And for a player as individually talented like Iverson, he underachieved big time.

[Bigsmoke]

The only time Iverson had any success was when he was the only scoring option. '01 was the only year he got past round 2. Penny was a more complete player, provided more mismatches, and was a better defender because of his length. He didn't gamble like Iverson did.

And for a player as individually talented like Iverson, he underachieved big time.

lol Penny had a 29/12 center play aside him and you're hating on Iverson for not making out of the 2nd round more than once when Penny only did it twice. :confusedshrug:

The Magic were super stacked in 95 and including Shaq who was putting up scary numbers.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/ORL/1995.html

you're telling me this team would make any noise?

Shaq
Grant
Dennis Scott
Nick Anderson
Iverson

Iverson is better in the clutch than Penny too

[D.J.]

you're telling me this team would make any noise?

Shaq
Grant
Dennis Scott
Nick Anderson
Iverson


Iverson needs the ball in his hands. Even if he put up his Denver numbers, that doesn't mean he's impacting games. Shaq impacted games, even if he had an off night scoring wise. Iverson only succeeded when he was the only scoring option.



Iverson is better in the clutch than Penny too


Really? Penny had back to back 40 point games against a defensively stacked Heat team and put up 33/10/6 in the deciding game 5. Doesn't exactly scream "choker".

[Bigsmoke]

Iverson needs the ball in his hands. Even if he put up his Denver numbers, that doesn't mean he's impacting games. Shaq impacted games, even if he had an off night scoring wise.




Really? Penny had back to back 40 point games against a defensively stacked Heat team and put up 33/10/6 in the deciding game 5. Doesn't exactly scream "choker".

40 point games is like...this to Iverson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFOFUAkDI68)

[D.J.]

40 point games is like...this to Iverson (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wFOFUAkDI68)


44 points and he needed 33 field goal attempts to do it. And he barely cracked 50% shooting. Don't forget his earlier games against the Bucks, where he had games of 13/35, 5/26, 10/32, and 5/27. And speaking of game 7s, 8/27 against Toronto.

[Sampsonsimpson]

AIs rookie season is essentially Pennys best season

Pennys best statistical season: 21/7/4/2

AIs rookie season: 23/7/4/2.

Not to mention Iverson led a team to the finals, has the 3rd highest playoff PPG in NBA history, had a beastly 30/8/4/2 season and was just a better overall player.

Gimme AI anyway of the week.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Do people really think that a player can't impact the game unless it shows on the stat-sheet? :confusedshrug: Being the more productive player does not always equate to being the better player.


AIs rookie season is essentially Pennys best season

Pennys best statistical season: 21/7/4/2

AIs rookie season: 23/7/4/2.

Not to mention Iverson led a team to the finals, has the 3rd highest playoff PPG in NBA history, had a beastly 30/8/4/2 season and was just a better overall player.

Gimme AI anyway of the week.
How about this stat?

Penny Hardaway's average FG% for his career was 46%
Allen Iverson's highest FG% in a season was 46%. (no hand-check)

[JohnnySic]

These youngens who saying AI and its not even close are obviously 12.
Why do people always fall back on this excuse?

I'm 37 years old. I was 19 in 1993 when Penny got drafted. I saw his whole career. He was good, but he is way overrated. He was not Iverson good or Kobe good or LeBron good or Wade good, which is how the Space Jam generation remembers him. He was a slightly better Brandon Roy or Joe Johnson. He wasn't even as good as Grant Hill, who also isn't quite Kobe or LeBron.

[necya]

Why do people always fall back on this excuse?

I'm 37 years old. I was 19 in 1993 when Penny got drafted. I saw his whole career. He was good, but he is way overrated. He was not Iverson good or Kobe good or LeBron good or Wade good, which is how the Space Jam generation remembers him. He was a slightly better Brandon Roy or Joe Johnson. He wasn't even as good as Grant Hill, who also isn't quite Kobe or LeBron.

:facepalm

i just can't discuss bball with guys like that. you just know don't know what you are talking about

[PowerGlove]

Iverson needs the ball in his hands. Even if he put up his Denver numbers, that doesn't mean he's impacting games. Shaq impacted games, even if he had an off night scoring wise. Iverson only succeeded when he was the only scoring option.





Really? Penny had back to back 40 point games against a defensively stacked Heat team and put up 33/10/6 in the deciding game 5. Doesn't exactly scream "choker".
WTF is this Iverson needs the ball in his hands shit? Jordan and Kobe need the ball in their hands too. Nash pounds the ball into submission but no one says anything but with AI its like hes the basketball version of the cookie monster and every ball on the floor is his.:facepalm

[ZaaaaaH]

Iverson was a better player... period.


Penny is a player filled "would have been's" and Iverson in his prime BEEN that shit. "MVP, All Star MVP, Scoring titles, Finals as a 1st Option, 50+ point games in the playoffs... ect.



You are right Penny was fillled with Potential he didnt meet BUT those First 3 year of his so called prime was just as good as AI in his prime. Penny was a PG he didnt need scoring titles or score 50 points even tho he can. As for MVP Penny had a good chance of winning at 95,97,99 IF he wasnt Hurt so much.

By the way Penny balled during the playoffs which shows me you are 12 who never watched Penny play.

[PowerGlove]

You are right Penny was fillled with Potential he didnt meet BUT those First 3 year of his so called prime was just as good as AI in his prime. Penny was a PG he didnt need scoring titles or score 50 points even tho he can. As for MVP Penny had a good chance of winning at 95,97,99 IF he wasnt Hurt so much.

By the way Penny balled during the playoffs which shows me you are 12 who never watched Penny play.
:facepalm

[ZaaaaaH]

Why do people always fall back on this excuse?

I'm 37 years old. I was 19 in 1993 when Penny got drafted. I saw his whole career. He was good, but he is way overrated. He was not Iverson good or Kobe good or LeBron good or Wade good, which is how the Space Jam generation remembers him. He was a slightly better Brandon Roy or Joe Johnson. He wasn't even as good as Grant Hill, who also isn't quite Kobe or LeBron.


Thats cool if you are not 12 and feel that way.

No disrespect to AI but Kobe and LeBron is on different Tier then him. AI's level would be around Wade and if you are Comparing Penny to Roy and JJ You are Underrating him without question. Grant Hill at his Prime would be around AI and Wade with Penny.

[ZaaaaaH]

:facepalm

:cry:

[MiseryCityTexas]

As others have said, Iverson. Iverson was just more dominant individually.

passing and maybe rebounding are like the only things penny can do better than iverson at. you give penny that same 2001 76ers team and they would barely make the playoffs if at all.

[MiseryCityTexas]

Why do people always fall back on this excuse?

I'm 37 years old. I was 19 in 1993 when Penny got drafted. I saw his whole career. He was good, but he is way overrated. He was not Iverson good or Kobe good or LeBron good or Wade good, which is how the Space Jam generation remembers him. He was a slightly better Brandon Roy or Joe Johnson. He wasn't even as good as Grant Hill, who also isn't quite Kobe or LeBron.

Hill woulda been up there with Kobe and Lebron in the early 2000s if he woulda stayed healthy. He was beasting in 97, and 98. Dude woulda been closest to averaging a triple double barring injury.

[Ikill]

WTF is this Iverson needs the ball in his hands shit? Jordan and Kobe need the ball in their hands too. Nash pounds the ball into submission but no one says anything but with AI its like hes the basketball version of the cookie monster and every ball on the floor is his.:facepalm
I don't get it either AI was not that ball dominant he played much more off the ball than guys like Lebron Kobe and Wade do.

[NumberSix]

Penny, obviously.

[Kellogs4toniee]

You are right Penny was fillled with Potential he didnt meet BUT those First 3 year of his so called prime was just as good as AI in his prime. Penny was a PG he didnt need scoring titles or score 50 points even tho he can. As for MVP Penny had a good chance of winning at 95,97,99 IF he wasnt Hurt so much.

By the way Penny balled during the playoffs which shows me you are 12 who never watched Penny play.


I disagree, those "3" years of his prime are not as good as AI's prime. I understand your a Penny fan and I respect your passion to defend him, but 3 years of prime (with numbers that really aren't that eye popping) does not justify the 5-6 years of straight dominating numbers that Iverson put up.

Yes I understand Penny was a better team player, could fit into the style of more teams then Iverson, but that's part of the reason why it works against him : For his prime he had to shoulder the responsibility of a sidekick. Sadly this works against him when you know on the other side of the spectrum Iverson has had to shoulder the responsibility of a number one option for over 10 straight years and managed to be one of the games top players for each of those years.

Someone brought up that great series he had.... that point is mute when you consider all the great series numbers Iverson have put up, including his performance in the 2001 play-offs which is arguably one of the greatest.

Simply put theres too many should haves, could haves, possibilities for Penny. And the very short prime that he did show us simply was not as dominating as Iverson's, a person who HAS been there and done that and dominated as one of the games best players for way more years.

[necya]

passing and maybe rebounding are like the only things penny can do better than iverson at. you give penny that same 2001 76ers team and they would barely make the playoffs if at all.

:facepalm just look at what he did with Darrell, Strong, Schayes and useless (because of injuries) 3D and Nick who combined 8,6pts per game on 18/59 FG over 5 games series.

vs Heat in 97
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8rpFE1CUiQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1vefSacsik&feature=related

vs Bulls in 96
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHdvNXek3nY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsEwfI2-QlM&feature=related

vs Bullets in 96
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD46LFwgTq8&feature=related

one question : who has this kind of offensive arsenal like this guy since 96 ? and he didn't scorched the 3 worst teams in the league...defended by MJ, Pip, Majerle, Lenard, Askins and Cheaney.

even after 2 knee surgeries, he schooled kobe in the 2000 WCSF.
during that year, Kidd led the Suns to 50% record during Penny's absence while Penny led the Suns to 60% of victory during Kidd and Gugliotta absence.

[Sampsonsimpson]

btw Iversons career Assists per game and his single season peak of 8 assists per game are both higher than Penny Hardaways

[MiseryCityTexas]

:facepalm just look at what he did with Darrell, Strong, Schayes and useless (because of injuries) 3D and Nick who combined 8,6pts per game on 18/59 FG over 5 games series.

vs Heat in 97
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z8rpFE1CUiQ&feature=related
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M1vefSacsik&feature=related

vs Bulls in 96
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QHdvNXek3nY
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gsEwfI2-QlM&feature=related

vs Bullets in 96
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zD46LFwgTq8&feature=related

one question : who has this kind of offensive arsenal like this guy since 96 ? and he didn't scorched the 3 worst teams in the league...defended by MJ, Pip, Majerle, Lenard, Askins and Cheaney.

even after 2 knee surgeries, he schooled kobe in the 2000 WCSF.
during that year, Kidd led the Suns to 50% record during Penny's absence while Penny led the Suns to 60% of victory during Kidd and Gugliotta absence.

penny still didn't go anywhere with them teams. iverson single handedly took mutumbo and a bunch of scrubs to the finals. therefore iverson is better :rockon:

[MiseryCityTexas]

you postins video footage of penny beasting in two years with out shaq is all fine and dandy, but iverson still had a better overall career in comparison. im not posting video footage or stats to prove this either. It just the god honest truth.

[zORi]

you postins video footage of penny beasting in two years with out shaq is all fine and dandy, but iverson still had a better overall career in comparison. im not posting video footage or stats to prove this either. It just the god honest truth.

No one is asking who had the better career, that was obvious, Penny's was cut short.

The question is Peak Hardaway vs Peak Iverson.

[Bigsmoke]

You are right Penny was fillled with Potential he didnt meet BUT those First 3 year of his so called prime was just as good as AI in his prime. Penny was a PG he didnt need scoring titles or score 50 points even tho he can. As for MVP Penny had a good chance of winning at 95,97,99 IF he wasnt Hurt so much.

By the way Penny balled during the playoffs which shows me you are 12 who never watched Penny play.

Penny had NO chance of winning MVP over D-Rob/Malone healthy or not.

dude was a Brandon Roy before Brandon Roy and thats it.

[zORi]

yeah ok.

If this true then maybe he would have won a ring with HOFers playing with him http://i38.photobucket.com/albums/e129/BigSmokes/rimshot.gif

Also, people forget, it's not like Penny and Shaq were in there primes during all this.

In '95, Orlando had to take down:
Boston
Chicago Bulls (45-Jordan)
Indiana Pacers
before being swept by the Rockets.

This was Penny's second year in the league.
In '96 they were swept by one of the greatest teams in NBA history, and then Shaq left and Penny never played with a player even close to his calibur again.

So people saying "how did he not win with Shaq?" can drop it when he only had him for his first three years in the league and made it to the Finals and ECF in 2 of those years.

[zORi]

Penny had NO chance of winning MVP over D-Rob/Malone healthy or not.

dude was a Brandon Roy before Brandon Roy and thats it.

LOL, and when Iverson won his in '01 D-Rob and Malone were both out of their primes and were not going to win it.

Hell, Mutumbo was viewed in a higher regard than Robinson at the time.

[Kellogs4toniee]

No one is asking who had the better career, that was obvious, Penny's was cut short.

The question is Peak Hardaway vs Peak Iverson.


And peak Iverson beats Peak Hardaway. Go back to my previous posts, the peak of Hardaway is too much could have, might have, ambiguous, maybe's. Where-as we all know what Peak Iverson was and it was an absolute monster given the circumstances and what he had to shoulder.

Aside from a few Penny fans on these boards, there effort to defend them are commendable, but there is no argument here honestly. I wouldn't say there peaks are miles apart, but there is a noticeable difference between Iverson's peak and Penny's peak.

[MiseryCityTexas]

No one is asking who had the better career, that was obvious, Penny's was cut short.

The question is Peak Hardaway vs Peak Iverson.

I admit, penny put up some solid numbers the few times he was healthy on the suns. he used to get near triple double numbers playing next to kidd at that time.

[lefthook00]

WTF is wrong with you people? Peak AI is one of the best to EVER do it. He beasted on the WHOLE LEAGUE.

[zORi]

And peak Iverson beats Peak Hardaway. Go back to my previous posts, the peak of Hardaway is too much could have, might have, ambiguous, maybe's. Where-as we all know what Peak Iverson was and it was an absolute monster given the circumstances and what he had to shoulder.

Aside from a few Penny fans on these boards, there effort to defend them are commendable, but there is no argument here honestly. I wouldn't say there peaks are miles apart, but there is a noticeable difference between Iverson's peak and Penny's peak.

I didn't say he wasn't. Go back to my previous posts.

I just don't like some of the ridiculous reasoning people are using to justify picking Iverson, I have no problem with anyone picking any one over the other.

[L.Kizzle]

Dint these guys go head to head in like 99 or 2000 playoffs?

[ThaSwagg3r]

Dint these guys go head to head in like 99 or 2000 playoffs?
Yeah in the '99 playoffs. 76ers won that series in 4.

Penny:

Game 1 - 19/6/5/3 with 4/13 shooting - L
Game 2 - 22/7/4/2 with 7/15 shooting - W
Game 3 - 18/5/3/2 with 6/12 shooting - L
Game 4 - 17/7/6 with 3/17 shooting - L

Iverson:

Game 1 - 30/7/5/2 with 12/29 shooting - W
Game 2 - 13/3/2/2 with 4/15 shooting - L
Game 3 - 33/10/5/5 with 14/28 shooting - W (that's 10 steals btw)
Game 4 - 37/9/3/2 with 14/27 shooting - W


Not sure how much it means since I have high doubts they guarded each other in that series. I didn't watch this series....

[necya]

Yeah in the '99 playoffs. 76ers won that series in 4.

Penny:

Game 1 - 19/6/5/3 with 4/13 shooting - L
Game 2 - 22/7/4/2 with 7/15 shooting - W
Game 3 - 18/5/3/2 with 6/12 shooting - L
Game 4 - 17/7/6 with 3/17 shooting - L

Iverson:

Game 1 - 30/7/5/2 with 12/29 shooting - W
Game 2 - 13/3/2/2 with 4/15 shooting - L
Game 3 - 33/10/5/5 with 14/28 shooting - W (that's 10 steals btw)
Game 4 - 37/9/3/2 with 14/27 shooting - W


Not sure how much it means since I have high doubts they guarded each other in that series. I didn't watch this series....

i have the entire series, it's simple.
Iverson guarded Penny for like 5 times. result 5/5 FG
Penny defended him a bit more, with better result. Armstrong and Harpring have been simply destroyed.

Penny got a second knee surgery during 97-98 season, he lost alot of his athleticism. He also, injured his shooting wrist during a game at Indiana just before the playoffs.

if there was a G5 in these series, i think Philadelphia would have won for 2 reasons : it would have been the 2nd game of a back to back (G4 was a saturday and G5 would have been the Sunday) and the Sixers were more athletic due to their age and more fresh.

[Sampsonsimpson]

Allen Iverson:
Career Averages: 26/6/3.5/2 on 42/31/78

Peak Season: 30/8/4/2 on 42/31/83

Awards/Achievements: 4 time scoring champion, 3 time steals per game leader, NBA MVP, 11 time All star, Rookie of the Year, 3 time NBA 1st Team, 3 time NBA 2nd Team, 1 time NBA 3rd Team, 2 Time All star Game MVP.

In 04-05 he was 1st overall in points scored and 3rd overall in assists.

Penny Hardaway:
Career Averages: 15/5/4.5/1.5 on 45/31/77

Peak Season: 22/7/4/2 on 51/31/76

Awards/Achievements: 4 time NBA all star, 2 time NBA 1st Team, 1 time NBA 3rd Team.

In 95-96 was 9th in overall points scored, 7th in assists, and 5th in steals.

[Hondo]

I want my star to play defense, so I take Penny.

He's much easier to build around as well, and is versatile. Just a shame he never reached his full potential.

[Hondo]

Have a look at the first 5 games (10 lines of stats) in this link:
http://www.basketball-reference.com/play-index/h2h_finder.cgi?request=1&p1=hardaan01&p2=iversal01

I remember when Iverson was a rookie, and 2nd year player, and he was repeatedly shown up by Hardaway, and that was interesting to me, because Iverson was tearing up the league. The only other player to beat down Iverson so badly at the start of his career was Gary Payton, and he was the best perimeter defender in the league not named Scottie Pippen.

[ZaaaaaH]

I disagree, those "3" years of his prime are not as good as AI's prime. I understand your a Penny fan and I respect your passion to defend him, but 3 years of prime (with numbers that really aren't that eye popping) does not justify the 5-6 years of straight dominating numbers that Iverson put up.

Yes I understand Penny was a better team player, could fit into the style of more teams then Iverson, but that's part of the reason why it works against him : For his prime he had to shoulder the responsibility of a sidekick. Sadly this works against him when you know on the other side of the spectrum Iverson has had to shoulder the responsibility of a number one option for over 10 straight years and managed to be one of the games top players for each of those years.

Someone brought up that great series he had.... that point is mute when you consider all the great series numbers Iverson have put up, including his performance in the 2001 play-offs which is arguably one of the greatest.

Simply put theres too many should haves, could haves, possibilities for Penny. And the very short prime that he did show us simply was not as dominating as Iverson's, a person who HAS been there and done that and dominated as one of the games best players for way more years.


I do agree with most of ur point but we are talking about Peak. Without a doubt AI has dominated the league longer with a better resume but when we are talking about Peak Penny is right there. Dont get me wrong I do not have a problem with people who pick AI because I do know how great he was during his Peak career but I was defending Penny due to people saying its not even close. Penny also is a lot easier to build around do to his skill set and size. He also gets his team involved a lot more since AI is more of a Iso player. Yea like I said I might be biased on this one since I like Penny a lot :D

[ZaaaaaH]

Penny had NO chance of winning MVP over D-Rob/Malone healthy or not.

dude was a Brandon Roy before Brandon Roy and thats it.


Let me know when u are not mad anymore or when Brandon Roy and JJ makes the 1st team.

[magnax1]

Honestly, this isn't close. Penny was a more efficient scorer, and that's the singular thing he did better. The only logical conclusion I can come to about people taking Hardaway is that they either just hate AI, or did not watch him at his best, or probably at all.

[ZaaaaaH]

Honestly, this isn't close. Penny was a more efficient scorer, and that's the singular thing he did better. The only logical conclusion I can come to about people taking Hardaway is that they either just hate AI, or did not watch him at his best, or probably at all.


LOL :applause:

[Orlando Magic]

Allen Iverson.