Wait, Magic Johnson actually did

[pauk]

Boy, this article by Mike Downey from 1991 sheds some light on Magic Johnson’s assertion that he wouldn’t have teamed up with Larry Bird or Michael Jordan. Apparently, it came down to a coin flip between the Lakers and Bulls, and had Chicago won the toss, Magic was going to stay in school. (Great find by SPORTSbyBROOKS.)


Magic Johnson would have returned to Michigan State rather than play for the Chicago Bulls.

“I’d have stayed in school,” he said here Tuesday, standing alone outside Gate 3 1/2 of Chicago Stadium, the house that could have been his. “A coin toss changed the course of my whole life.”

“I wouldn’t have played here,” Johnson said on the eve of Game 2 of the NBA finals between his team and the team that could have been his. “The only reason I came out was to play with Kareem and the Lakers.“

Oops. I guess Magic should have kept his big mouth shut......

This one goes out to all those that are slamming LeBron for bailing on Cleveland and heading to South Beach. Magic chose to go to the Lakers in much the same way that LeBron chose his new team, only one was in the draft and the other was in free agency.....

Egg, please meet face.....

http://www.scoresreport.com/2010/07/22/wait-magic-johnson-actually-did-team-up/


thats why... Larry > Magic... dude was just a ringchaser.... thats why he retired aswell when the Bulls won the championship.... he knew what was coming for him... Jordan & Lebron had to at least try winning a championship with scrub teams until something had to happen when they where 26-28.... they didnt get everything handed to them like Kobe & Magic.... Jordan got his Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc and so on.... and Lebron didnt (thx to Dan Gilbert), so he had to venture out and find it himself....

[L8kersfan222]

http://s2.postimage.org/1z3hndupn/long.jpg

[DJ Leon Smith]

Except for the part where Wade got injured and LeBron had a triple double and led the Heat to a championship in a deciding game 7 on the road, YES EXACTLY THE SAME.

YOU WIN THE INTERNET!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Insert *******.jpg here.

[pauk]

this is not really trolling........ its a fact...... sorry to say....

magic should have kept his mouth shut.... i understand Jordan & Bird somewhat better, even tho their criticism is somewhat stupid to (as u will see why downstairs)... but Magic should have just STFU....

Jordan went thru the same problem as Lebron, he didnt win a ring until he was 27.... he had to go thru the same scrub team trying to win a championship 1 on 5 rambo style.... until he got pippen and so on...

But Lebron never got his Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc and so on (thx to Dan Gilbert and his seriousness)... i blame everything on Dan Gilbert.... if Dan Gilbert was serious and really wanted to keep Lebron and wanted a championship he would have done something about it, showing how serious he is about it..... instead of given him 40 year old has-beens and sideshow bobs from Brazil.......... he knew after 7 years Lebron couldnt take it anymore... and Lebron never complained.... Lebron wanted to seriously contend for championships.... he became a freeagent and saw a great oppurtunity in Miami.. and went for it...

Lebron had to create that "Magic/Jordan/Bird" situation for himself....... nobody was willing to hand him anything.... but merelly give him millions and a couple of spotup shooters so he can just entertain the league with his STATS........ he didnt want any of that ever.... his only goal was always a Championship....

You Clevelanders can blame only Dan Gilbert......... Lebron is a very good guy and very loyal, but he didnt want to just go entire his career ringless..... he saw how "serious" Dan Gilbert was about his goals and those players goals and that towns goal of winning a championship........ it was never gona happen with that Dictator around..... he only wanted to make money and keep Lebron as a slave.....

His personality sure came out as you have seen after Lebron left..... and Lebron never talked crap, he never complained or whined about it.......... maybe he should? Like Kobe did? Maybe then Dan Gilbert would have done something.... and Lebron could have stayed and you could had your Championship....

[Vienceslav]

What does this have to do with Lebron?

[BIG FURB]

Magic's situation sounds less like Lebron's and more like Kobe's

[Jasi]

I missed the part where Magic spends 7 years as the franchise player of another NBA team and then decides to go elsewhere.

[JohnnySic]

Here's a little tidbit from history: The Celtics had 3 first round picks in '79, which the team's idiot owner John Y. Brown traded for Bob McAdoo, infuriating Red Auerbach (who nearly quit the team over it to become the Knicks' GM).

Assuming the Celtics kept those picks, and assuming Chicago won the coin toss, perhaps the Celts could have offered the 3 picks for the top pick? Would Magic have been amicable to joining Bird in Boston?

Probably not............Magic was too "Hollywood". But its interesting to speculate.

[pauk]

I missed the part where Magic spends 7 years as the franchise player of another NBA team and then decides to go elsewhere.

I missed the part where Magic spends 7 years in one of the most stacked and best teams ever... wins championships... and all of the sudden decides to go to a bad team?

What sense is there in what u are saying? :confusedshrug:


another fun fact:

Magic had to chose between Lakers & Bulls.... if he had got to Bulls anyways, he would have got Jordan, Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc and so on.... and would have probably won even more rings.......... Magics future was BLESSED....

[pauk]

Here's a little tidbit from history: The Celtics had 3 first round picks in '79, which the team's idiot owner John Y. Brown traded for Bob McAdoo, infuriating Red Auerbach (who nearly quit the team over it to become the Knicks' GM).

Assuming the Celtics kept those picks, and assuming Chicago won the coin toss, perhaps the Celts could have offered the 3 picks for the top pick? Would Magic have been amicable to joining Bird in Boston?

Probably not............Magic was too "Hollywood". But its interesting to speculate.

interesting... good post

[ballerz]

I missed the part where Magic spends 7 years in one of the most stacked and best teams ever... wins championships... and all of the sudden decides to go to a bad team?

What sense is there in what u are saying? :confusedshrug:
That Lebron left as a free agent, were Magic got drafted. Like it or not their two different circumstances. Magic never held a one hour tv special to announce he was making himself eligible for the draft. Don't try to seem like they were the same things when they clearly wern't

[DJ Leon Smith]

Magic had to chose

You have severe problems with past tense don't you.

[pauk]

That Lebron left as a free agent, were Magic got drafted. Like it or not their two different circumstances. Magic never held a one hour tv special to announce he was making himself eligible for the draft. Don't try to seem like they were the same things when they clearly wern't

Yes... but did Lebron refuse to play for the Cavs and stay in highschool / college until he got to um.. dunno.... Lakers and play with Kobe/Gasol... or Spurs... or wait until he could play with Rondo/Garnett/Allen/Pierce for the Celtics? HELL NO.......... but Magic did that.... thats a true ringchasing loser...... Lebron at least tried for 7 years... Magic didnt.... thats even worse..

Lebron jumped in joy when he knew he was going to a 15 wins in a season team.... and was patient for 7 years..... he wanted to do what Jordan did..... build a championship franchise.... but Dan Gilbert didnt..... Lebron certainly didnt get his Pippen, Rodman, Kukoc and Phil Jackson and so on......

but he was instead given some Hummers, some spotup shooters, 40 year old has-beens and sideshow bobs from Brazil to keep him happy being rich and entertaining us with his STATS................

lebron never wanted any of that.... neither did the Cleveland fans.... but Dan Gilbert didnt care.... enough was enough....

[pauk]

You have severe problems with past tense don't you.

its a fast WPM keyboard typo problem..... yes.. i know its actually "choose".... :rolleyes:

[Doctor Rivers]

You have severe problems with past tense don't you.

he has severe problems with ellipses too

[DJ Leon Smith]

its a fast WPM keyboard typo problem..... yes.. i know its actually "choose".... :rolleyes:

Does your keyboard also make you use the word "losed" instead of "lost"?

[pauk]

Does your keyboard also make you use the word "losed" instead of "lost"?

No... but my keyboard doesnt correct my english language, which is about my 5th++ fluently spoken language.......... i speak Bosnian, Croatian, Macedonian, Slovenian, Bulgarian, Serbian, German and English........ how about you m8 from Australia? Crikey! :rolleyes:

I know i can do a better job grammatically, but i am to lazy.... and im trolling... so i cant be articulate.... :D

[DJ Leon Smith]

No... but my keyboard doesnt correct my english language, which is about my 5th fluently spoken language.......... i speak Bosnian, Croatian, Macedonian, Slovenian, Bulgarian, Serbian, German and English

Then say that in the first place rather than claim you're just prone to typos.

That's what someone who doesn't suffer from some kind of degenerative brain disease would do.

[Doctor Rivers]

No... but my keyboard doesnt correct my english language, which is about my 5th++ fluently spoken language.......... i speak Bosnian, Croatian, Macedonian, Slovenian, Bulgarian, Serbian, German and English........ how about you m8 from Australia? Crikey! :rolleyes:

I know i can do a better job grammatically, but i am to lazy.... and im trolling... so i cant be articulate.... :D

I think you should just post in Macedonian from now on so we can ignore your trolling

[pauk]

Then say that in the first place rather than claim you're just prone to typos.

That's what someone who doesn't suffer from some kind of degenerative brain disease would do.

my english is very good though.... it was a typo.... and the grammatics to... i can do a better job... but i wont... just for the sake of teasing you and the other grammar-nazis... :banana:

[pauk]

I think you should just post in Macedonian from now on so we can ignore your trolling

Pa dobro onda... pusi mi kurac. :banana:

[pauk]

Now stop changing the subject because you got outdebated and stick to the topic.

[DJ Leon Smith]

This thread losed.

[pauk]

This thread losed.

no sir.... facts > your opinions..... your opinions are rather FARTS than FACTS... now go back to surfing m8

[DJ Leon Smith]

no sir.... facts > your opinions..... your opinions are rather FARTS than FACTS... now go back to surfing m8

All I said in this thread was a fact and you ignored it. Here it is again. Third post.

"Except for the part where Wade got injured and LeBron had a triple double and led the Heat to a championship in a deciding game 7 on the road, YES EXACTLY THE SAME."

[DMAVS41]

Yes, Magic did team up with Kareem. Its not quite the same because Magic was yet to play a NBA game.

However, Magic criticizing Lebron for wanting to go to a loaded team for a good chance to win the title is hypocritical. Magic even admitted that he only came out for the chance to play with the great Kareem.

So lets not act like these older players would turn down the chance to team up with other greats....especially when those other greats were also struggling to win.

Its not like Lebron jumped to a proven championship team or something. He jumped to a team that hadn't won a playoff series in like 5 years and had a coach with almost no experience.

Its hardly as big of a deal as everyone made it out to be....and the Heat team was not nearly as "stacked" as everyone claimed in an effort to downplay a potential title.

I wonder where all the people claiming that the Heat were "so good its unfair" and "its not even competitive" are now. LOL

[chains5000]

Yes, Magic did team up with Kareem. Its not quite the same because Magic was yet to play a NBA game.

However, Magic criticizing Lebron for wanting to go to a loaded team for a good chance to win the title is hypocritical. Magic even admitted that he only came out for the chance to play with the great Kareem.

So lets not act like these older players would turn down the chance to team up with other greats....especially when those other greats were also struggling to win.

Its not like Lebron jumped to a proven championship team or something. He jumped to a team that hadn't won a playoff series in like 5 years and had a coach with almost no experience.

Its hardly as big of a deal as everyone made it out to be....and the Heat team was not nearly as "stacked" as everyone claimed in an effort to downplay a potential title.

I wonder where all the people claiming that the Heat were "so good its unfair" and "its not even competitive" are now. LOL
:rolleyes:

[Apocalyptic0n3]

The way everything on here is turned and twisted and manipulated to either support or bash Lebron, Jordan, and Kobe is astounding.

[DMAVS41]

:rolleyes:

Uhh.......he didn't. What are you smoking? This notion that the Heat were so good its unfair needs to stop.

Bosh is not even close to as good as people here made him out to be. I bet most people here caught less than 5 Bosh games a year...if that. He's not a top 10 player....hell, I don't even know if he's a top 10 forward in the league now.

That team had an inexperienced coach and a sorry bench that was hurt most of the year.

Don't get me wrong, I blame Lebron hugely and the Heat should have won, but Lebron absolutely did not jump to a proven team. Absolutely not.

I'm sick of this growing movement that basketball is some form of Pokemon or Dragonball Z where each player has a specific power level or number of power points they give a team. Its not like you add them up individually and you get the strength of a team. You have to factor in so much more than that. Its why some teams with less talent are actually better than teams with more talent.

Rose and Westbrook are two very good player. Put them on the same team and its going to be awful. Things like that have to be factored in. You have to factor in that Bosh as a third option doesn't do a lot of the things you want a third option to do. His value is tremendously decreased because of that...etc.

I swear, when I read posts here its like people just want to come out and say:

But the Heat are easily the best team...their power level is 1,000,000...

[chains5000]

Uhh.......he didn't. What are you smoking? This notion that the Heat were so good its unfair needs to stop.

Bosh is not even close to as good as people here made him out to be. I bet most people here caught less than 5 Bosh games a year...if that. He's not a top 10 player....hell, I don't even know if he's a top 10 forward in the league now.

That team had an inexperienced coach and a sorry bench that was hurt most of the year.

Don't get me wrong, I blame Lebron hugely and the Heat should have won, but Lebron absolutely did not jump to a proven team. Absolutely not.
The Heat with those 3 plus Haslem and Miller (coming from a good season at Washington) wasn't a proven team? Really?
How many proven teams are there in the league then? 3?

[DMAVS41]

The Heat with those 3 plus Haslem and Miller (coming from a good season at Washington) wasn't a proven team? Really?
How many proven teams are there in the league then? 3?

You should look up the definition of proven.

Talented and probably the best team on paper? Sure. Proven? Not at all.

Had they ever played together? Nope. It was a completely new team for everyone. How can that be proven?

[chains5000]

You should look up the definition of proven.

Talented and probably the best team on paper? Sure. Proven? Not at all.

Had they ever played together? Nope. It was a completely new team for everyone. How can that be proven?
Ok... I'll remove the proven tag to any that's made major changes, even when signing two All Stars

[LBJFTW]

[QUOTE=pauk]Boy, this article by Mike Downey from 1991 sheds some light on Magic Johnson

[All Net]

Lebron went to Miami even though they had just 3 players on their roster. They had to sign players to build it up

Miami were not a proven team at all

[DMAVS41]

Ok... I'll remove the proven tag to any that's made major changes, even when signing two All Stars

Sometimes teams need time. Sometimes individually talented players don't fit well.

Sometimes players are over-rated (Bosh)....

And its not like Miller and Haslem played all year. They were hurt the majority of the year. Neither played at an optimal level consistently.

No doubt the Heat were talented and should have won it all, but it was year 1 for them. And that team has some serious flaws to go along with their great talent.

So my only point is that it would be different if Lebron had joined up with the Lakers or Celtics or something. That is not what he did. He went to a team with a ton of talent, but a team that was far from a proven playoff performer.

[chains5000]

Sometimes teams need time. Sometimes individually talented players don't fit well.

Sometimes players are over-rated (Bosh)....

And its not like Miller and Haslem played all year. They were hurt the majority of the year. Neither played at an optimal level consistently.

No doubt the Heat were talented and should have won it all, but it was year 1 for them. And that team has some serious flaws to go along with their great talent.

So my only point is that it would be different if Lebron had joined up with the Lakers or Celtics or something. That is not what he did. He went to a team with a ton of talent, but a team that was far from a proven playoff performer.
Anybody had doubts the Heat would win a title in Lebron's first 3 years there?

[pauk]

Yes, Magic did team up with Kareem. Its not quite the same because Magic was yet to play a NBA game.

However, Magic criticizing Lebron for wanting to go to a loaded team for a good chance to win the title is hypocritical. Magic even admitted that he only came out for the chance to play with the great Kareem.

So lets not act like these older players would turn down the chance to team up with other greats....especially when those other greats were also struggling to win.

Its not like Lebron jumped to a proven championship team or something. He jumped to a team that hadn't won a playoff series in like 5 years and had a coach with almost no experience.

Its hardly as big of a deal as everyone made it out to be....and the Heat team was not nearly as "stacked" as everyone claimed in an effort to downplay a potential title.

I wonder where all the people claiming that the Heat were "so good its unfair" and "its not even competitive" are now. LOL

:applause:

[All Net]

I know you can play the what if game for everything but it would of been interesting how big of an effect having a heathly mike miller and haslem would of done for the heat

[DMAVS41]

Anybody had doubts the Heat would win a title in Lebron's first 3 years there?

I don't know. I didn't. I thought and still think they will win 3 titles in 6 years. I did not think they would win in year 1...for different reasons, but nonetheless I didn't have them winning in year 1.

[pauk]

Dmavs41 & All-Net.... finally great posters with logic & sense

[All Net]

:bowdown:
I don't know. I didn't. I thought and still think they will win 3 titles in 6 years. I did not think they would win in year 1...for different reasons, but nonetheless I didn't have them winning in year 1.
Most didn't on here didn't me included. Most had them losing to Boston.

That will change for next season though I think most expect them to win it all in year 2

[chains5000]

I don't know. I didn't. I thought and still think they will win 3 titles in 6 years. I did not think they would win in year 1...for different reasons, but nonetheless I didn't have them winning in year 1.
I wasn't sure either on them winning in their first year, but it was pretty clear to me they'd be winning titles soon.

[LBJFTW]

Dmavs41 & All-Net.... finally great posters with logic & sense

Maybe they will rub off on you so that you don't lump Magic in with a 4th quarter no show that has yet to prove himself as a champion. :oldlol:

[pauk]

I wasn't sure either on them winning in their first year, but it was pretty clear to me they'd be winning titles soon.

and they will!

[DMAVS41]

:bowdown:
Most didn't on here didn't me included. Most had them losing to Boston.

That will change for next season though I think most expect them to win it all in year 2

Right. I'm not going to act like the Heat team deserves to be labeled as a failure after failing to win year 1. In fact, they made it farther than I expected.

Individually, both Lebron and Bosh were failures this past year in my opinion for how they played. But the team? Nah...not yet. Miller and Haslem were pretty much non factors. They had chemistry issues. Their coach had almost no experience...and their bench/center position was downright awful.

So many things that plagued them last year should get a ton better.

[pauk]

Right. I'm not going to act like the Heat team deserves to be labeled as a failure after failing to win year 1. In fact, they made it farther than I expected.

Individually, both Lebron and Bosh were failures this past year in my opinion for how they played. But the team? Nah...not yet. Miller and Haslem were pretty much non factors. They had chemistry issues. Their coach had almost no experience...and their bench/center position was downright awful.

So many things that plagued them last year should get a ton better.

past year? entire year? cmon.......... he was basically the GOD in the season & playoffs prior to those 2 games he played so bad in Mavs series....

[chains5000]

past year? entire year? cmon.......... he was basically the GOD in the season & playoffs prior to those 2 games he played so bad in Mavs series....
But what do people remember from him this season?

[DMAVS41]

past year? entire year? cmon.......... he was basically the GOD in the season & playoffs prior to those 2 games he played so bad in Mavs series....

Depends on how you want to break it down. If you want to just remove the finals and talk about that separately....then no, Lebron played very well.

However, when you do what Lebron did in the 6 most important games of the year with a chance to win the title...etc. Then yes, that is a failed year in my opinion.

[pauk]

Depends on how you want to break it down. If you want to just remove the finals and talk about that separately....then no, Lebron played very well.

However, when you do what Lebron did in the 6 most important games of the year with a chance to win the title...etc. Then yes, that is a failed year in my opinion.

Its not like he was terrible in all of them.... its only 2-3 games he was terrible in... those games wont change 100+ games of great performance (season & playoffs before the Mavs series).... without him Wade would have not been to the finals sorry to say...

Even in the Finals Wade was not any much better.... both were not so good.... with his assists + points he was accountable almost as many team points as Wade was with his assists + points in the Finals..... Wade was not any much better.........

Lebron won Game 1, he was the most productive and made some nice clutch plays to win the game if you remember?

Lebron was bad in Game 2, they losed, Wade performed better.... both sucked in clutch, they losed.

Lebron was bad in Game 3, Wade performed better... but Lebron made the gamewinning behind the back play to Bosh if you remember?

Lebron was bad in Game 4, Wade performed better... both sucked in the clutch, they losed.

Lebron was good in Game 5, Lebron performed best... had the 1st Finals triple double in some decade... but they losed, both Wade & Lebron sucked in clutch.

Lebron was good in Game 6, Lebron performed best... but they losed, both Wade & Lebron sucked in clutch.

[jlip]

How great teams are formed and how one acquires great teammates is so irrelevant to me. I don't care whether it's through the draft, trades, or free agency. Those parts of the game exist so that teams can build.

The criticism of Lebron joining the Heat was unprecedented and blinded people to historical reality. When you look at teams like the 60's Celtics, 70's Knicks, 80's Lakers and Celtics, and the second 3 peat Bulls, we're looking at teams that often had at least 3 hall of famers who were major contributors. Some of these teams had even 4-7 hall of famers at least. They came together at different times under different circumstances, but they still "teamed up" somehow. And not many of the players who were drafted or traded to quality championship squads said, "Oh No, I want to win on my own and prove myself. Please send me to a lottery team, so I can show how great I am."

You're not a better player just because your GM was able to draft or trade for talent allowing you win championships early in your career. Neither are you a worse player because you realize how incompetent your GM is at securing quality talent and you take your future into your own hands. The discussion about joining other great players and how teams are built and how they impact legacy is simply foolish talk amongst people with corrupted notions of what it means to be great.

[pauk]

How great teams are formed and how one acquires great teammates is so irrelevant to me. I don't care whether it's through the draft, trades, or free agency. Those parts of the game exist so that teams can build.

The criticism of Lebron joining the Heat was unprecedented and blinded people to historical reality. When you look at teams like the 60's Celtics, 70's Knicks, 80's Lakers and Celtics, and the second 3 peat Bulls, we're looking at teams that often had at least 3 hall of famers who were major contributors. Some of these teams had even 4-7 hall of famers at least. They came together at different times under different circumstances, but they still "teamed up" somehow. And not many of the players who were drafted or traded to quality championship squads said, "Oh No, I want to win on my own and prove myself. Please send me to a lottery team, so I can show how great I am."

You're not a better player just because your GM was able to draft or trade for talent allowing you win championships early in your career. Neither are you a worse player because you realize how incompetent your GM is at securing quality talent and you take your future into your own hands. The discussion about joining other great players and how teams are built and how they impact legacy is simply foolish talk amongst people with corrupted notions of what it means to be great.

POST OF THE YEAR :bowdown:

[DMAVS41]

Its not like he was terrible in all of them.... its only 2-3 games he was terrible in... those games wont change 100+ games of great performance (season & playoffs before the Mavs series).... without him Wade would have not been to the finals sorry to say...

Even in the Finals Wade was not any much better.... both were not so good.... with his assists + points he was accountable almost as many team points as Wade was with his assists + points in the Finals..... Wade was not any much better.........

Lebron won Game 1, he was the most productive and made some nice clutch plays to win the game if you remember?

Lebron was bad in Game 2, they losed, Wade performed better.... both sucked in clutch, they losed.

Lebron was bad in Game 3, Wade performed better... but Lebron made the gamewinning behind the back play to Bosh if you remember?

Lebron was bad in Game 4, Wade performed better... both sucked in the clutch, they losed.

Lebron was good in Game 5, Lebron performed best... had the 1st Finals triple double in some decade... but they losed, both Wade & Lebron sucked in clutch.

Lebron was good in Game 6, Lebron performed best... but they losed, both Wade & Lebron sucked in clutch.

i disagree.

Lebron's performance in the finals was historically bad. I can't think of another elite player playing worse. The only thing that comes to mind for me is Kobe in the 04 finals...and even then I think Kobe played a little better given the circumstances.

I know you are a huge Lebron fan...so you will see it differently. But in my opinion, Lebron was truly awful in the finals and his performance was so bad that its enough for me to say he failed as a player last year.

[DMAVS41]

How great teams are formed and how one acquires great teammates is so irrelevant to me. I don't care whether it's through the draft, trades, or free agency. Those parts of the game exist so that teams can build.

The criticism of Lebron joining the Heat was unprecedented and blinded people to historical reality. When you look at teams like the 60's Celtics, 70's Knicks, 80's Lakers and Celtics, and the second 3 peat Bulls, we're looking at teams that often had at least 3 hall of famers who were major contributors. Some of these teams had even 4-7 hall of famers at least. They came together at different times under different circumstances, but they still "teamed up" somehow. And not many of the players who were drafted or traded to quality championship squads said, "Oh No, I want to win on my own and prove myself. Please send me to a lottery team, so I can show how great I am."

You're not a better player just because your GM was able to draft or trade for talent allowing you win championships early in your career. Neither are you a worse player because you realize how incompetent your GM is at securing quality talent and you take your future into your own hands. The discussion about joining other great players and how teams are built and how they impact legacy is simply foolish talk amongst people with corrupted notions of what it means to be great.


Really agree with the bold.

[pauk]

:blah

different.... but same...

and the fact of him criticising Lebron after Magics actions/situation and not knowing Lebrons situation and acting like he wouldnt have done the same thing in Lebrons situation is sickening.... he didnt really criticise, he just said he wouldnt do it... but still... its stupid to me... because he would... and he did... but he did it early so he didnt had to deal with the crap lebron did....

Magic is a weird guy anyways....

"Lebron is the best player in the world...."
"Lebron reminds so much about me..."
"Lebron this and that"

and then goes backstabbing...

Im glad Isiah Thomas set this straight aswell... he said the same exact thing about Magic needing to STFU, because how he teamed up with Kareem... and that he wouldnt have done the same thing as Lebron is BS.....

i find it HARD to believe after what Magic said that he would NOT go to Miami Heat in Lebrons situation (being in a draft lottery team, poor franchise with a terrible GM and being ringless forever)...........

or maybe he would not be in that situation afterall... considering how he said he would RATHER NOT BE IN THE NBA IF IT IS NOT IN A STACKED/CHAMPIONSHIP TEAM.............. :confusedshrug:

[guy]

I think its different. Magic and Kareem weren't exactly rivals or peers the way Magic and Bird were or the way Lebron and Wade were. They were also way more complimentary to each other then Lebron and Wade were. He also didn't make it a spectacle and/or make false promises to his team before that.

Him saying he won't enter the draft isn't that big of a deal cause its not like players at the time were really leaving college that early. Him entering the draft at the time he did was not the norm. So I don't think its that big of a deal that it took certain circumstances for him to leave.

[pauk]

i disagree.

Lebron's performance in the finals was historically bad. I can't think of another elite player playing worse. The only thing that comes to mind for me is Kobe in the 04 finals...and even then I think Kobe played a little better given the circumstances.

I know you are a huge Lebron fan...so you will see it differently. But in my opinion, Lebron was truly awful in the finals and his performance was so bad that its enough for me to say he failed as a player last year.

Overall YES.... but he was not terrible in all of them........

its only 6 games he played..... you can score 30 points every single game and have only 1 point in the other and that will take your PPG down dramatically......

Game 1 he was amazing... he won that game...

Game 2-3-4 he was horrible... even tho he had a gamewinning play with Bosh in Game 3...

Game 5-6 he was pretty good... he was the most productive player in the Heat...

where i think the game was losed was mostly in the 4th quarter........ Wade nor Lebron were able to do enough to close out the games....

[DMAVS41]

Overall YES.... but he was not terrible in all of them........

its only 6 games he played..... you can score 30 points every single game and have only 1 point in the other and that will take your PPG down dramatically......

It doesn't matter to me about his stats or anything. I just watched the series...and have rewatched it 2 more times. He was awful overall....the Heat lost because of him. That is a strong statement to make, but its true. It wasn't just a poor series....it was a historically bad series.

That is just how I feel though. Lebron's play this year prevented the Heat from winning the title. Because I feel that way, I can't say Lebron's year was a success.

[EricForman]

this thread is dying for some lengthy feline

[pauk]

It doesn't matter to me about his stats or anything. I just watched the series...and have rewatched it 2 more times. He was awful overall....the Heat lost because of him. That is a strong statement to make, but its true. It wasn't just a poor series....it was a historically bad series.

That is just how I feel though. Lebron's play this year prevented the Heat from winning the title. Because I feel that way, I can't say Lebron's year was a success.

ofcourse i agree.... am not that biased lmao... he was terrible by his standards..... only by his standards....

but bad by the normal standards? i dont know..... since when is putting up 18-7-7 and playing 1st team all-nba defense bad? this is only bad by lebrons standards......... any other player else would be an All-Star with those numbers.... there are not many (or any in the NBA?) that could be 2-3 apg/rpg close to a triple double and be playing 4 positions while at it efficiently even if you pointed a pistol against them... he is supposed to get a 30 point triple double every game at least... lol...

its only horrible by his standards.... the SCORING i mean.... because thats the only thing he was not able to do up to his standards.... especially in the 4th quarter... where he usually is the leader in most 4th quarter points.... he was pathetic scoring wise in the 4th in Finals... any game imo... that was so NOT lebron..... especially if you compared that to all other series in the Playoffs prior to the Finals... he was closing teams out left and right........ amazing clutch display.... to the point where even Pippen said that Lebron is the GOAT... it was THAT safe to say such a statement... and nobody criticised Pippen so much... until the Mavs series...

[catch24]

I think its different. Magic and Kareem weren't exactly rivals or peers the way Magic and Bird were or the way Lebron and Wade were. They were also way more complimentary to each other then Lebron and Wade were. He also didn't make it a spectacle and/or make false promises to his team before that.

Him saying he won't enter the draft isn't that big of a deal cause its not like players at the time were really leaving college that early. Him entering the draft at the time he did was not the norm. So I don't think its that big of a deal that it took certain circumstances for him to leave.

This. It's always been different for me, but so behind me now that I really don't give two shits about it either way.

[LBJFTW]

How great teams are formed and how one acquires great teammates is so irrelevant to me. I don't care whether it's through the draft, trades, or free agency. Those parts of the game exist so that teams can build.

The criticism of Lebron joining the Heat was unprecedented and blinded people to historical reality. When you look at teams like the 60's Celtics, 70's Knicks, 80's Lakers and Celtics, and the second 3 peat Bulls, we're looking at teams that often had at least 3 hall of famers who were major contributors. Some of these teams had even 4-7 hall of famers at least. They came together at different times under different circumstances, but they still "teamed up" somehow. And not many of the players who were drafted or traded to quality championship squads said, "Oh No, I want to win on my own and prove myself. Please send me to a lottery team, so I can show how great I am."

You're not a better player just because your GM was able to draft or trade for talent allowing you win championships early in your career. Neither are you a worse player because you realize how incompetent your GM is at securing quality talent and you take your future into your own hands. The discussion about joining other great players and how teams are built and how they impact legacy is simply foolish talk amongst people with corrupted notions of what it means to be great.

Lebron going to the Knicks or similar team and winning it all after his tenure with the Cavs would be considered a greater achievement then playing with the 2nd best player in the NBA. If EVER there was a chance in the HISTORY of the game for someone to attain such a great accomplishment, it was LeBron James. He had his chance to do exactly that in Cleveland. That ship has long set sail, so we will never know the true extent of what greatness could have been. To me and millions of other fans, any rings won by James down the road at this point with the 2nd greatest player won't have nearly as much luster.

[pauk]

Lebron going to the Knicks or similar team and winning it all after his tenure with the Cavs would be considered a greater achievement then playing with the 2nd best player in the NBA. If EVER there was a chance in the HISTORY of the game for someone to attain such a great accomplishment, it was LeBron James. He had his chance to do exactly that in Cleveland. That ship has long set sail, so we will never know the true extent of what greatness could have been. To me and millions of other fans, any rings won by James down the road at this point with the 2nd greatest player won't have nearly as much luster.

Wade(His best friend, his "brother")+Bosh+Great Weather > Amare+Cold Weather... :D

[purplch0de]

You guys are idiots... magic johnson was a unproven college player who wanted to play with a competitive team. Nothing wrong with that... however two proven superstards in the NBA teaming up is different...

[LBJFTW]

Wade(His best friend, his "brother")+Bosh+Great Weather > Amare+Cold Weather... :D

Too easy to win dull rings.....unless of course you're playing against a GOD like Dirk who has an unstoppable one legged fade-away.....

[pauk]

You guys are idiots... magic johnson was a unproven college player who wanted to play with a competitive team. Nothing wrong with that... however two proven superstards in the NBA teaming up is different...

unproven college player? the dude just came of an NCAA championship.....

[pauk]

Too easy to win dull rings.....unless of course you're playing against a GOD like Dirk who has an unstoppable one legged fade-away.....

To easy? Haha..... 11 experienced players with build up chemistry and overall talent > 2 players and a half....

u saw what happened in the Finals (and to Kobes Lakers)....

THE BEST TEAM WILL WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP.... NOT THE BEST PLAYER...

and wtf is up with your name anyways.... LBJFTW? dont u hate lebron?

[LBJFTW]

To easy? Haha..... 11 experienced players with build up chemistry and overall talent > 2 players and a half....

u saw what happened in the Finals....

THE BEST TEAM WILL WIN THE CHAMPIONSHIP.... NOT THE BEST PLAYER...

2 players and a half with one not choking in the 4th is > 11 experienced players with build up chemistry and overall talent

[purplch0de]

unproven college player? the dude just came of an NCAA championship.....

How is college magic johnson anywhere near the level of lebron? Kwame brown was drafted first and look at him... players excel at different levels. He could of been the biggest flop EVER. Some just don't do well in the national spotlight.

[pauk]

Lebron going to the Knicks or similar team and winning it all after his tenure with the Cavs would be considered a greater achievement then playing with the 2nd best player in the NBA. If EVER there was a chance in the HISTORY of the game for someone to attain such a great accomplishment, it was LeBron James. He had his chance to do exactly that in Cleveland. That ship has long set sail, so we will never know the true extent of what greatness could have been. To me and millions of other fans, any rings won by James down the road at this point with the 2nd greatest player won't have nearly as much luster.

No....

No player in NBA history has won it as alone as Lebron was.... all had at least 3 hall of famers... some up to 4-7 hall of famers.....

Lebron would have been successful in NY with Amare.... but that team was overall much more horrible than Miami Heat.... which means... Lebron would proably still be ringless for a couple of more years before Knicks do another great move...... but Miami? They almost won it... and next year.... they probably will and a couple of more and more and more after that....

[pauk]

2 players and a half with one not choking in the 4th is > 11 experienced players with build up chemistry and overall talent

with one not choking in the 4th? oh really? if wade didnt "choke" in the 4th then why didnt they win??? and where was that "non choker" during the Bulls series? :confusedshrug:

fact is neither of them did enough to close the games out overall against the Mavs...... except for Game 1 where Lebron was able to do that........ and Game 3 Wade was able to do that (even tho Bosh got the gamewinner thx to Lebrons pass)... all other games both Lebron & Wade sucked Dirks balls in the 4th....

[Asukal]

Stop these bullshit agendas please. If you really believe Lebron belongs to the GOAT discussion, then wait till he proves himself by leading his team to several championships. ZERO rings don't cut it. :hammerhead:

[L8kersfan222]

How is college magic johnson anywhere near the level of lebron? Kwame brown was drafted first and look at him... players excel at different levels. He could of been the biggest flop EVER. Some just don't do well in the national spotlight.


damn you're stupid bro

[RRR3]

Pauk stop trolling. LeBron had, at most, 2 good games in the finals. He failed. It's not the end of the world. Just accept that he's not a flawless player.

[pauk]

damn you're stupid bro

careful... he is a laker fan just like u... shouldnt u stick together with ur crazy comments? :oldlol:

[pauk]

Pauk stop trolling. LeBron had, at most, 2 good games in the finals. He failed. It's not the end of the world. Just accept that he's not a flawless player.

as u can see the topic of the thread and so on... has nothing to do with lebrons finals performance.... even tho i had to reply those of-topic kobetards ALWAYS ranting about lebrons finals performance.... its them who need to get over it.... but they wont... because thats the only thing they can use to try and troll/tease other ppl here...

[RRR3]

as u can see the topic of the thread and so on... has nothing to do with lebrons finals performance.... even tho i had to reply those of-topic kobetards ALWAYS ranting about lebrons finals performance.... its them who need to get over it.... but they wont... because thats the only thing they can use to try and troll/tease other ppl here...
If u stop reacting to them by making these threads, they will be less annoying. They'll still troll, but less. You trolling them back doesn't help anything.

[pauk]

If u stop reacting to them by making these threads, they will be less annoying. They'll still troll, but less. You trolling them back doesn't help anything.

roger that...

but what do u mean with these threads? its all facts... and its very interesting topic...

[L8kersfan222]

:mad:

:mad:

:mad:

damn

[RRR3]

roger that...

but what do u mean with these threads? its all facts... and its very interesting topic...
First of all, a lot of your threads are more opinions than facts, and the you often cherrypick the data you do use. Secondly, these topics have been beaten to death many times over on ISH.

[RRR3]

:cry: :cry:
damn.

[pauk]

First of all, a lot of your threads are more opinions than facts, and the you often cherrypick the data you do use. Secondly, these topics have been beaten to death many times over on ISH.

yes but opinions that make sense based on what we see & facts....

this thread is ALL facts.... i mean at least the 1st post lol... considering the actual link to the actual quote of Magic... it is what it is...

dunno if this has been beaten to death...

but yea... fawk it... lets just not talk about ANYTHING in a basketball forum in a NBA lockout.... lets just rot until a season happens...

[Asukal]

1st of all when Magic said those words, he was still a rookie out to prove himself. He wasn't Magic the all time great. Lebron went to Miami after 7 years in the league and has proven himself to be a top 3 current player. So there is a big difference in their scenarios. :no:

[jlip]

Lebron going to the Knicks or similar team and winning it all after his tenure with the Cavs would be considered a greater achievement then playing with the 2nd best player in the NBA. If EVER there was a chance in the HISTORY of the game for someone to attain such a great accomplishment, it was LeBron James. He had his chance to do exactly that in Cleveland. That ship has long set sail, so we will never know the true extent of what greatness could have been. To me and millions of other fans, any rings won by James down the road at this point with the 2nd greatest player won't have nearly as much luster.

Given I don't judge players necessarily by just championships and "who was on their team" when they won I have to say that my opinion is much different from what is expressed here.

[pauk]

1st of all when Magic said those words, he was still a rookie out to prove himself. He wasn't Magic the all time great. Lebron went to Miami after 7 years in the league and has proven himself to be a top 3 current player. So there is a big difference in their scenarios. :no:

[I]Magic Johnson would have returned to Michigan State rather than play for the Chicago Bulls.

[Doctor Rivers]

[QUOTE=pauk][I]Magic Johnson would have returned to Michigan State rather than play for the Chicago Bulls.

[RazorBaLade]

What needs to be said so your moronic skull gets penetrated by the fact that we're not talking about unproven ROOKIES coming in trying to get the best team they can. We're talking about an MVP caliber player , established player, leaving his team to go play with someone who is also an MVP caliber player. Thats never happened.

thats all. no ****ing shit a rookie is gonna want to play with someone great in a great city.... its weird when you are great and go to try to play with someone thats also great.

[the_wise_one]

[QUOTE=pauk]Boy, this article by Mike Downey from 1991 sheds some light on Magic Johnson

[bdreason]

He has a point. Kobe did the same thing essentially, forcing a trade to the Lakers.



I'm fine with his choice to go Miami... even though it's not what I wanted as a fan. The only major mistake LeBron made was "the decision". After that, people just started picking him apart. He's the same guy everyone apparently loved all those years in Cleveland.

[bdreason]

What needs to be said so your moronic skull gets penetrated by the fact that we're not talking about unproven ROOKIES coming in trying to get the best team they can. We're talking about an MVP caliber player , established player, leaving his team to go play with someone who is also an MVP caliber player. Thats never happened.

thats all. no ****ing shit a rookie is gonna want to play with someone great in a great city.... its weird when you are great and go to try to play with someone thats also great.



Magic was already a great player in College. His rookie year he averaged something like 18/7/7 on 50%+.

[NumberSix]

RING RING!!!....... RING RING!!!

Hello?

Yes, Is this pauk's mouth?

Yes, it is.

Hello, I'm LeBron James' shorts...... I'll be needing his balls back.

[Jasi]

You guys still don't consider the fact that Magic and Kobe were rookies when they made these "decisions".
They were not a Superstar with 7 years as the franchise player.

Can we please all agree that there is a HUGE difference between choosing your FIRST team in the league, and abandoning your franchise after 7 years?

I'm not saying here that one is good and the other is bad, just that they are DIFFERENT situations. Therefore, the comparison is moot and this whole thread misses the point.
Either you recognise that, or you're trolling.

[bdreason]

You guys still don't consider the fact that Magic and Kobe were rookies when they made these "decisions".
They were not a Superstar with 7 years as the franchise player.

Can we please all agree that there is a HUGE difference between choosing your FIRST team in the league, and abandoning your franchise after 7 years?

I'm not saying here that one is good and the other is bad, just that they are DIFFERENT situations. Therefore, the comparison is moot and this whole thread misses the point.
Either you recognise that, or you're trolling.


Different situations. Same inherent goal. To get on a team you think can win with.


Magic and Kobe forced their way on to a great Franchise. LeBron, as a Free Agent, chose to try and build a great Franchise in Miami.

[RazorBaLade]

Different situations. Same inherent goal. To get on a team you think can win with.


Magic and Kobe forced their way on to a great Franchise. LeBron, as a Free Agent, chose to try and build a great Franchise in Miami.

kill a terrible pedophile rapist and murderer, or kill someone for looking at you wrong

different situations, same goal right? so they are the same?

[All Net]

kill a terrible pedophile rapist and murderer, or kill someone for looking at you wrong

different situations, same goal right? so they are the same?
:wtf:

[Doranku]

:oldlol: The hypocrisy of DMavs is astounding. This is the dude who has repeatedly slammed Kobe for his play in the 2008 finals, saying he "underachieved" with the team he had. Yet here he's saying it's not a big deal that the Heat didn't win the title because it was their first year together.

Uhh.. Kobe and Gasol didn't even play together for half of a year. Why don't you ever bring that up? They also lost to a team in the finals who won 9 more games in the regular season and had HCA. Remind me who had HCA between Miami/Dallas? Not to mention that Celtics team was MUCH better than the Mavericks who people (including yourself) thought had a very good chance of losing to Portland in the first round.

Going more in depth, you want to talk about injuries and blah blah blah. So soon to forget that LA was without their starting Center AND small forward in the finals? :facepalm At least Miller and Haslem played for the majority of the playoffs...

Sure, Kobe played bad in the finals. If he would have performed like he had against the Western Conference, they definitely could have won the series. But let's not act like LA was a superior team to Boston like Miami was to Dallas. It's not even close. Boston's defense in '08 was worlds better than the '11 Mavericks' defense, yet LeBron was the one posting 8 point games.

You can't even play the, "oh, well Kobe blew a 24 point halftime lead!!!" card. LeBron blew a f*cking 15 point lead with 7 minutes left in the game. That's even worse!

So please, stop with your double standards. If Kobe and the Lakers "underachieved" in '08, then the entire Heat roster should be pegged as gigantic failures for this past season.

[pegasus]

:oldlol: The hypocrisy of DMavs is astounding. This is the dude who has repeatedly slammed Kobe for his play in the 2008 finals, saying he "underachieved" with the team he had. Yet here he's saying it's not a big deal that the Heat didn't win the title because it was their first year together.

Uhh.. Kobe and Gasol didn't even play together for half of a year. Why don't you ever bring that up? They also lost to a team in the finals who won 9 more games in the regular season and had HCA. Remind me who had HCA between Miami/Dallas? Not to mention that Celtics team was MUCH better than the Mavericks who people (including yourself) thought had a very good chance of losing to Portland in the first round.

Going more in depth, you want to talk about injuries and blah blah blah. So soon to forget that LA was without their starting Center AND small forward in the finals? :facepalm At least Miller and Haslem played for the majority of the playoffs...

Sure, Kobe played bad in the finals. If he would have performed like he had against the Western Conference, they definitely could have won the series. But let's not act like LA was a superior team to Boston like Miami was to Dallas. It's not even close. Boston's defense in '08 was worlds better than the '11 Mavericks' defense, yet LeBron was the one posting 8 point games.

You can't even play the, "oh, well Kobe blew a 24 point halftime lead!!!" card. LeBron blew a f*cking 15 point lead with 7 minutes left in the game. That's even worse!

So please, stop with your double standards. If Kobe and the Lakers "underachieved" in '08, then the entire Heat roster should be pegged as gigantic failures for this past season.

DMAVS (aka ginobili) gets exposed yet again. :applause:

[LBJ 23]

:oldlol:

You can't even play the, "oh, well Kobe blew a 24 point halftime lead!!!" card. LeBron blew a f*cking 15 point lead with 7 minutes left in the game. That's even worse!

So please, stop with your double standards.



Aren't you one of those who are saying that Wade is better than Lebron and that Wade is Miami's best player/first option? So, shouldn't you be saying that Wade blew a f*ucking 15 point lead with 7 minutes left in the game. Ussually it's team's best player accountable for this, in Lakers case it was Kobe(not Gasol) and in Miami case it should be Wade. But you are attacking Lebron, the second fiddle, why?

Because you also like to use double standards.


Either admit that Lebron is the best player and the most important player on the Heat and then critize him as much as you want and rightfully so, I'm not defending him. He did f*ck up in the Finals and he did cost Miami a championship. But, please, you and all others who say the same shit please stop, all year you were saying how Wade is better than Lebron and how Wade is 1. option and Lebron is 2. or even third option(a lot of your Kobefan friends said this) on the Heat and now after the Finals you attack and critize him as if he would be distant best player and first option on the Heat.

So either:

-admit that Lebron is the best player on the team-------------->critize him as much as the best player deserves

-Claim that se is 2. or even 3. option on the team----------->critize him as much as 2. or 3. option deserves.


But you certainly can't say that he is 2. or 3. option on the team and at the same time critize him as much as team's best and most important player deserves. And that's excatly what you and a lot of your Kobe friends are doing.

[kaiiu]

:oldlol: The hypocrisy of DMavs is astounding. This is the dude who has repeatedly slammed Kobe for his play in the 2008 finals, saying he "underachieved" with the team he had. Yet here he's saying it's not a big deal that the Heat didn't win the title because it was their first year together.

Uhh.. Kobe and Gasol didn't even play together for half of a year. Why don't you ever bring that up? They also lost to a team in the finals who won 9 more games in the regular season and had HCA. Remind me who had HCA between Miami/Dallas? Not to mention that Celtics team was MUCH better than the Mavericks who people (including yourself) thought had a very good chance of losing to Portland in the first round.

Going more in depth, you want to talk about injuries and blah blah blah. So soon to forget that LA was without their starting Center AND small forward in the finals? :facepalm At least Miller and Haslem played for the majority of the playoffs...

Sure, Kobe played bad in the finals. If he would have performed like he had against the Western Conference, they definitely could have won the series. But let's not act like LA was a superior team to Boston like Miami was to Dallas. It's not even close. Boston's defense in '08 was worlds better than the '11 Mavericks' defense, yet LeBron was the one posting 8 point games.

You can't even play the, "oh, well Kobe blew a 24 point halftime lead!!!" card. LeBron blew a f*cking 15 point lead with 7 minutes left in the game. That's even worse!

So please, stop with your double standards. If Kobe and the Lakers "underachieved" in '08, then the entire Heat roster should be pegged as gigantic failures for this past season.
preach this shit boiiiiiii :applause:

[Doranku]

Aren't you one of those who are saying that Wade is better than Lebron and that Wade is Miami's best player/first option? So, shouldn't you be saying that Wade blew a f*ucking 15 point lead with 7 minutes left in the game. Ussually it's team's best player accountable for this, in Lakers case it was Kobe(not Gasol) and in Miami case it should be Wade. But you are attacking Lebron, the second fiddle, why?

Because you also like to use double standards.


Either admit that Lebron is the best player and the most important player on the Heat and then critize him as much as you want and rightfully so, I'm not defending him. He did f*ck up in the Finals and he did cost Miami a championship. But, please, you and all others who say the same shit please stop, all year you were saying how Wade is better than Lebron and how Wade is 1. option and Lebron is 2. or even third option(a lot of your Kobefan friends said this) on the Heat and now after the Finals you attack and critize him as if he would be distant best player and first option on the Heat.

So either:

-admit that Lebron is the best player on the team-------------->critize him as much as the best player deserves

-Claim that se is 2. or even 3. option on the team----------->critize him as much as 2. or 3. option deserves.


But you certainly can't say that he is 2. or 3. option on the team and at the same time critize him as much as team's best and most important player deserves. And that's excatly what you and a lot of your Kobe friends are doing.

Wade, imo, is the best player on the Heat. However, it's more of a 1A/1B type situation. In '02-03 and '03-04, Kobe gets plenty of blame for the Lakers' losses to the Spurs and Pistons (especially the Pistons). Yet, you Kobe haters all claim that Shaq was clearly the first banana on the Shaq/Kobe Lakers.

I don't see a contradiction or double standard here. LeBron, like Kobe during those years, was a huge piece to the Miami Heat. Moreso than the average second best player. Not everything is black and white like you're making it out to be. Kobe rightfully gets a lot of the blame placed on his shoulders for what transpired against the Pistons in '04 just as LeBron is catching plenty of flak for the 2011 Finals.

You want to know why people aren't blaming Wade for Miami's collapse? Because he was phenomenal. Do you ever see Shaq being chastised for his performance against the Pistons? No, because he also played great.

[LBJ 23]

Wade, imo, is the best player on the Heat. However, it's more of a 1A/1B type situation. In '02-03 and '03-04, Kobe gets plenty of blame for the Lakers' losses to the Spurs and Pistons (especially the Pistons). Yet, they Kobe haters all claim that Shaq was clearly the first banana on the Shaq/Kobe Lakers.

I don't see a contradiction or double standard here. LeBron, like Kobe during those years, was a huge piece to the Miami Heat. Moreso than the average second best player. Not everything is black and white like you're making it out to be. Kobe rightfully gets a lot of the blame placed on his shoulders for what transpired against the Pistons in '04 just as LeBron is catching plenty of flak for the 2011 Finals.

You want to know why people aren't blaming Wade for Miami's collapse? Because he was phenomenal. Do you ever see Shaq being chastised for his performance against the Pistons? No, because he also played great.


Ok. Fair enough, just one correction.

[Kellogs4toniee]

Why is this man not perm-banned yet is beyond me.

[pauk]

Ok. Fair enough, just one correction.

lol thats not fair enough....

wade is not better than lebron... and he never was... as a talent or as a career... majority of fans (unbiased fans), sports writers, announcers, players, coaches, legends and so on will tell you so....

the gap is not MAJOR, but there is a edge... and that edge leans towards Lebrons side.... its easy to see if you research and compare all the Lebron/Wade facts carefully.....

Its so annoying how fans cant LIVE with their favorite player not being the best.... just because he is your favorite player doesnt mean he must be best.... try be a bit unbiased for gods sake... Wade is not better than Lebron.... one thing i loved about Lebron & Wade teaming up is that Lebron would now be forcing biased Wade fans to see why Lebron is better every single day.... and he has showed them who was better the entire year.... lets not forget that.... 2-3 bad scoring games against the Mavs wont change that.... sorry...

and you know what.. Lebron is younger, much more consistant and much more durable aswell just heading into his prime and only getting better.... compared to Wade who is about to get out of his prime and is inconsistant and injury proned..... dont get your hopes up for the future to much about Wade getting any better...

by the way... excellent post above LBJ23....

[juju151111]

:wtf:
:lol

[Simple Jack]

So giving your all to a franchise for 7 years before deciding a change needs to be made is worse than making demands, as a rookie who has yet to be drafted, as if you're entitled to deciding where you're going to play?