Kobe Bryant vs Michael Jordan Career 2 Point FG%...

[eliteballer]

From age 21(Though Jordan turned 22 midway through his rookie year)

Kobe: 7518-15528: 48%

Jordan: 11611-22795: 51%

Kobe takes more 3's because he can make them better and it adds another dimension to confuse the D, and also because 1 on 1 isos are more difficult.

Considering how close that is when Jordan played most of his career(up to 96) in an era where high FG%'s were far more common and easier to obtain(Barkley shooting 60% for example)...well lets just say the efficiency argument goes right out the window.

[catch24]

Kobe isn't better than Jordan dude...get over it.

[ThaSwagg3r]

What are you trying to prove in this thread?

51% is still higher and better than 48% just like Michael Jordan is still ranked higher and was better than Kobe Bryant.

[RazorBaLade]

what were their 3pt %?

btw 1 shot a game is pretty huge.. imagine how many games lakers would have won if kobe just scored 2 more pts EVERY game

[RazorBaLade]

What are you trying to prove in this thread?

51% is still higher and better than 48% just like Michael Jordan is still ranked higher and was better than Kobe Bryant.

im pretty sure the 3pt% makers up for the 2

[ThaSwagg3r]

im pretty sure the 3pt% makers up for the 2
Then go compare their eFG%....

Michael Jordan eFG% - 51%
Kobe Bryant eFG% - 49%

Nope, still inferior.

[eliteballer]

Barkley shot 60% one season in that era...dont you get it:facepalm

[Soothing Layup]

Michael shot 7000+ more shots :facepalm:

[eliteballer]

Michael shot 7000+ more shots :facepalm:

That's Jordan's entire career, Kobe's career isnt over yet.

[Soothing Layup]

That's Jordan's entire career, Kobe's career isnt over yet.

Years played:
MJ 15
Kobe 15

Hmmmm...

[DuMa]

"Kobe takes more 3's because he can make them better and it adds another dimension to confuse the D, and also because 1 on 1 isos are more difficult."

how does taking 3s confuse the defense again? if anythign you're bailing out the defense by taking a low percentage shot. :facepalm:

[RazorBaLade]

Then go compare their eFG%....

Michael Jordan eFG% - 51%
Kobe Bryant eFG% - 49%

Nope, still inferior.

How is eFG% figured out?

[eliteballer]

Years played:
MJ 15
Kobe 15

Hmmmm...

Kobe was 4 years younger when he came in, different development curve...HM:facepalm

[Soothing Layup]

Kobe was 4 years younger when he came in...HM:facepalm

That is true, but he was at a "Pro level" nonetheless, or do the lakers recruit just any HS kids??

[eliteballer]

Your stupidity is astounding. Kobe came in at age 18 from High School onto a contender and Jordan came in at age 21/22 after North Carolina on a lottery team. Kobe is 33 right now, Jordan retired from the Bulls at 35 and also missed .

Kobe's FGA's will go up because, you know, he is going to keep playing...unless you have an argument for that ISHiot:rolleyes:

[andgar923]

That's Jordan's entire career, Kobe's career isnt over yet.

And his efficiency will go down even more.

[catch24]

How is eFG% figured out?

It adjusts for the fact that a 3PT is worth one more point than a 2PT (e.g., Player X goes 4/9 with two threes, while Player Y goes 5 for 10 with zero threes. Each player has 10 points and the same eFG - 50%

[eliteballer]

And his efficiency will go down even more.

Unlike Jordan, Kobe's FG% has stayed steady as he's aged:pimp:

[andgar923]

Unlike Jordan, Kobe's FG% has stayed steady as he's aged:pimp:

Yeah.... still lower than MJ's.

[eliteballer]

Yup..if only Kobe played in the league when the Bad Boys allowed more PPG than Nash/Dirk Mavericks.

[andgar923]

Yup..if only Kobe played in the league when the Bad Boys allowed more PPG than Nash/Dirk Mavericks.

He'd take more 3pt shots cause he can't penetrate and lacks the IQ to take smarter higher percentage shots?:confusedshrug:

[BEAST Griffin]

Considering how close that is when Jordan played most of his career(up to 96) in an era where high FG%'s were far more common and easier to obtain(Barkley shooting 60% for example)...well lets just say the efficiency argument goes right out the window.

FG% was higher because less threes were taken and because big men scored more.

[eliteballer]

Yeah, Kobe can't penetrate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVKSl_7aW6s

Go ahead and elaborate on your argument about how Rik Smits is better than Dwight:roll:

[RazorBaLade]

It adjusts for the fact that a 3PT is worth one more point than a 2PT (e.g., Player X goes 4/9 with two threes, while Player Y goes 5 for 10 with zero threes. Each player has 10 points and the same eFG - 50%

Ah. 51 to 49. I'll take it.

Of course IDK if that is taking into account the 2 seasons when Jordan shot from a closer 3 pt line and the early seasons of Kobe's career. So it might even be more like 51 to 50. 1% difference, but in the playoffs the gap is larger.

[andgar923]

Yeah, Kobe can't penetrate:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YVKSl_7aW6s

Go ahead and elaborate on your argument about how Rik Smits is better than Dwight:roll:

nowhere on the same level as MJ dude.

And yeah... your stats on defense are terribly misleading.

[eliteballer]

FG% was higher because less threes were taken and because big men scored more.

Then why were outside shooters like Miller and Mullin having seasons shooting over 50%? The style of play was focused on offense with less emphasis on stopping the other team at all costs, that's why. You can go back and watch. Defenders will give up on a play quicker/easier than they do now.

[andgar923]

Then why were outside shooters like Miller and Mullin having seasons shooting over 50%? The style of play was focused on offense with less emphasis on stopping the other team at all costs, that's why. You can go back and watch. Defenders will give up on a play quicker/easier than they do now.

Did you not understand what he stated?

[RazorBaLade]

He'd take more 3pt shots cause he can't penetrate and lacks the IQ to take smarter higher percentage shots?:confusedshrug:

Just an fyi, shooting 35% from three is the same as 50% from two. There's no way 18 footers are higher percentage..... The only thing is that not standing on the 3pt line allows for a chance of a real high % shot inside the paint and it makes rebounds a little easier.

IE 35/100 produces 105 points on 35% from three... Where as 50/100 from 2 produces 100 points on 50%. I think the future of the NBA will be a lot more 3 pt oriented.

[BEAST Griffin]

Then why were outside shooters like Miller and Mullin having seasons shooting over 50%? The style of play was focused on offense with less emphasis on stopping the other team at all costs, that's why. You can go back and watch. Defenders will give up on a play quicker/easier than they do now.

They were great shooterss.

But when they averaged 50% the rate of their 3pt attempts was lower.

And their effective field goal percentage in those years wasn't an anomaly.


Ray Allen or Steve Nash are just as effective....and they played in this era...


You're really not making a good argument here. I'm not sure you even got the point of my post.

[Round Mound]

From age 21(Though Jordan turned 22 midway through his rookie year)

Kobe: 7518-15528: 48%

Jordan: 11611-22795: 51%

Kobe takes more 3's because he can make them better and it adds another dimension to confuse the D, and also because 1 on 1 isos are more difficult.

Considering how close that is when Jordan played most of his career(up to 96) in an era where high FG%'s were far more common and easier to obtain(Barkley shooting 60% for example)...well lets just say the efficiency argument goes right out the window.

So now this kiddo is dissing MJ and Charles? :facepalm :facepalm

Funny Crap You Put Up Influenced by My Thread. Sorry but Jordan still had a higher 2-Point FG% than Kobe and Barkley`s 2-Point FG% was Shaq-like while doubled more than any other player not named Shaq in his prime healthy 1985-1995

[imlmf]

it must sucks to be a kobe fan, he ain't never going to be in the same league as the GOAT

[LebronairJAMES]

From age 21(Though Jordan turned 22 midway through his rookie year)

Kobe: 7518-15528: 48%

Jordan: 11611-22795: 51%

Kobe takes more 3's because he can make them better and it adds another dimension to confuse the D, and also because 1 on 1 isos are more difficult.

Considering how close that is when Jordan played most of his career(up to 96) in an era where high FG%'s were far more common and easier to obtain(Barkley shooting 60% for example)...well lets just say the efficiency argument goes right out the window.
http://therecshow.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/fat_midget_stripper.jpg

[Collie]

Remove those 2 MJ Wizard years if you're not gonna count Kobe's first 2 years as well. And oh, add the probability when Kobe is shooting below 45% in his mid to late 30's.

[DJ Leon Smith]

Your stupidity is astounding. Kobe came in at age 18 from High School onto a contender and Jordan came in at age 21/22 after North Carolina on a lottery team.

Shouldn't Kobe have a far higher percentage then? Jordan was the only good player on terrible Bulls teams for years and had to take a ton of shots, Kobe had the advantage of playing with MVPs who created space for him from day one in the league.

Don't worry, I'll wait for your next "BETWEEN THE AGES OF 24.5 AND 25.1 ON WEDNESDAYS IN GAMES THAT STARTED AFTER 8PM KOBE SHOOTS ONLY 1% WORSE THAN JORDAN WHO PLAYED IN A WEAK ERA BECAUSE ONLY ONE PERSON WON ALL THOSE FINAL MVPS SO THEREFORE KOBE IS BETTER" thread.

[RRR3]

Shouldn't Kobe have a far higher percentage then? Jordan was the only good player on terrible Bulls teams for years and had to take a ton of shots, Kobe had the advantage of playing with MVPs who created space for him from day one in the league.

Don't worry, I'll wait for your next "BETWEEN THE AGES OF 24.5 AND 25.1 ON WEDNESDAYS IN GAMES THAT STARTED AFTER 8PM KOBE SHOOTS ONLY 1% WORSE THAN JORDAN WHO PLAYED IN A WEAK ERA BECAUSE ONLY ONE PERSON WON ALL THOSE FINAL MVPS SO THEREFORE KOBE IS BETTER" thread.
:roll: :roll: :roll: :applause: :applause:

[GiveItToBurrito]

Kobe doesn't have three or four years of playing in his late 30s weighing him down. If you think he's going to play at his current level in five years you're completely out of your mind.

[GiveItToBurrito]

it must sucks to be a kobe fan, he ain't never going to be in the same league as the GOAT

Even worse, all of these weakly argued threads saying he's as good or better devalue him. Like, John Wall's a great young point guard, but if there were a dozen threads a day saying that he's better than Magic Johnson, he would look a lot worse than he is.

[guy]

Just an fyi, shooting 35% from three is the same as 50% from two. There's no way 18 footers are higher percentage..... The only thing is that not standing on the 3pt line allows for a chance of a real high % shot inside the paint and it makes rebounds a little easier.

IE 35/100 produces 105 points on 35% from three... Where as 50/100 from 2 produces 100 points on 50%. I think the future of the NBA will be a lot more 3 pt oriented.

Too bad that doesn't tell the whole story. It bails out defenses, results in longer rebounds which result in better transition opportunities, and the significantly more missed shots gives them significantly more transition opportunities in general. And when superstar players like Kobe and Lebron take alot of 3s its usually not from alot of ball movement, which takes the rest of the team out of rhythm and enables defenses to rest more. And also, although it wouldn't show up in these numbers, 2-point attempts are also obviously way more likely to result in free throw opportunities. Thats another reason why 2-point attempts are still way more efficient then 3-point attempts despite whatever advanced statistics say, and its another reason why Jordan was considerably more efficient then Kobe.

[gotbacon23]

Considering how close that is when Jordan played most of his career(up to 96) in an era where high FG%'s were far more common and easier to obtain(Barkley shooting 60% for example)...well lets just say the efficiency argument goes right out the window.

This is complete BS.

league average eFG% by season:

2010-11: 49.8%
2009-10: 50.1%
2008-09: 50.0%
2007-08: 49.7%
2006-07: 49.6%
2005-06: 49.0%
2004-05: 48.2%
2003-04: 47.1%
2002-03: 47.4%
2001-02: 47.7%
2000-01: 47.3%
1999-00: 47.8%
1998-99: 46.6%
1997-98: 47.8%
1996-97: 49.3%
1995-96: 49.9%
1994-95: 50.0%
1993-94: 48.5%
1992-93: 49.1%
1991-92: 48.7%
1990-91: 48.7%
1989-90: 48.9%
1988-89: 48.9%
1987-88: 48.9%
1986-87: 48.8%
1985-86: 49.3%
1984-85: 49.6%
Average 1984-2011: 48.8%

League Average eFG% during Jordan's Career: 48.9%
(average of 1984-85 season through 1992-93 season, 1994-95 season through 1997-98 season, 2001-02 season and 2002-03 season)

League Average eFG% "up until '96": 49.1%

League Average eFG% during Kobe's Career: 48.5%

MJ's eFG% (career): 50.9%
Kobe's eFG% (career): 48.8%

As you can see, on average eFG% has barely moved at all since 1984-85


The reason overall FG% has gone down is because significantly more threes are being taken. For example, in 1984-85 the TEAM leader in 3's was the Dallas Mavericks, making 152 threes on the season on 443 attempts. Only 5 TEAMS made 100+ threes that year. By comparison, Dorrel Wright made 194 threes himself this pasts eason and 59 PLAYERS made 100+ threes this past season. That's not a product of trying to "confuse" the defense, its just that most people born in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s who played in the 1980s and 1990s never played with a 3 point line their entire lives until it was introduced in the NBA in 1979-80 sans some ABA players and some years they had it in college bball and some they didn't.

So you obviously can't compare fg%s (which you did when you brought up Barkley) but eFG% is more relevant and, as you can see, that has not changed much over the years.

Barkley shot 60% cause he was a beast, not because it was "easier".

[LBJDWADE63]

stop comparing kobe to Jordan.

6 FMVP >>> 2 FMVP

****ing trolls

[97 bulls]

Kobes always been said to have a clear advantage in 3pt shooting but in actuality, kobe shoots 34% to jordans 33%.

And for those people who turn to the shortenend 3pt line, don't forget the league changed rules in order to make it easier for bryant to score.

[chips93]

Too bad that doesn't tell the whole story. It bails out defenses, results in longer rebounds which result in better transition opportunities, and the significantly more missed shots gives them significantly more transition opportunities in general. And when superstar players like Kobe and Lebron take alot of 3s its usually not from alot of ball movement, which takes the rest of the team out of rhythm and enables defenses to rest more. And also, although it wouldn't show up in these numbers, 2-point attempts are also obviously way more likely to result in free throw opportunities. Thats another reason why 2-point attempts are still way more efficient then 3-point attempts despite whatever advanced statistics say, and its another reason why Jordan was considerably more efficient then Kobe.

good post

also, 2pt fga lead to more offensive rebounding opportunities. 2pt fga are more commonly rebounded by the offense thatn 3pt fgas.


Kobes always been said to have a clear advantage in 3pt shooting but in actuality, kobe shoots 34% to jordans 33%.

kobe forces more 3pt shots. kobe is clearly the better 3pt shooter.

lebron shoots 45% on long 2pt jumpers, kobe shoots 38%, dont try to tell me kobe isnt a better mid range jumpshooter than bron.

teams knew that they could give jordan the 3pt shot, teams dont give kobe that same space on 3pt shots, so kobe's are more difficult. kobe is clearly the superior 3pt shooter.



And for those people who turn to the shortened 3pt line, don't forget the league changed rules in order to make it easier for bryant to score.

conspiracy theories :rolleyes:

mj fans shouldnt be so insecure, your favorite player is better, why make up the bs excuses?

[tontoz]

From age 21(Though Jordan turned 22 midway through his rookie year)

Kobe: 7518-15528: 48%

Jordan: 11611-22795: 51%

Kobe takes more 3's because he can make them better and it adds another dimension to confuse the D, and also because 1 on 1 isos are more difficult.

Considering how close that is when Jordan played most of his career(up to 96) in an era where high FG%'s were far more common and easier to obtain(Barkley shooting 60% for example)...well lets just say the efficiency argument goes right out the window.


Kobe takes a lot of 3s because he has bad shot selection. He is not that good from 3.

How exactly are iso's more difficult since handchecking is against the rules?

Lebron and Wade don't have any problem shooting 50% from the field in this era.

[andgar923]

Kobe takes a lot of 3s because he has bad shot selection. He is not that good from 3.

How exactly are iso's more difficult since handchecking is against the rules?

Lebron and Wade don't have any problem shooting 50% from the field in this era.

And just to add another tidbit of info....

Kobe's fg% has either increased slightly or remained the same for a few key reasons:

He's taking less 3s
He's posting up more
Gasol, Bynum, Odom

[chips93]

Kobe takes a lot of 3s because he has bad shot selection. He is not that good from 3.


kobe is technically more efficeint statistically speaking from 3, than from 2.

think about it, you only have to shoot 33% from deep, to equate to 50% on 2s.

kobe scored about 0.97 points per 3pt attempt last year, but only 0.9 points per 2pt attempt last year.

this is of course ignore all of the advantages of shooting shots at the rim that guy pointed out

[tontoz]

kobe is technically more efficeint statistically speaking from 3, than from 2.

think about it, you only have to shoot 33% from deep, to equate to 50% on 2s.

kobe scored about 0.97 points per 3pt attempt last year, but only 0.9 points per 2pt attempt last year.

this is of course ignore all of the advantages of shooting shots at the rim that guy pointed out


Kobe isn't going to get to the foul line very often jacking 3s. He isn't going to set up easy opportunities for other players standing at the 3 point line. That argument doesn't hold water.

[andgar923]

Kobe isn't going to get to the foul line very often jacking 3s. He isn't going to set up easy opportunities for other players standing at the 3 point line. That argument doesn't hold water.


But... but.... 3 points is more than 2!!!

Who cares if the miss results in a defensive rebound, loss of possession, creates less ball movement, bails out the defense, it counts for one more point!!!

[Dave3]

This is complete BS.

league average eFG% by season:

2010-11: 49.8%
2009-10: 50.1%
2008-09: 50.0%
2007-08: 49.7%
2006-07: 49.6%
2005-06: 49.0%
2004-05: 48.2%
2003-04: 47.1%
2002-03: 47.4%
2001-02: 47.7%
2000-01: 47.3%
1999-00: 47.8%
1998-99: 46.6%
1997-98: 47.8%
1996-97: 49.3%
1995-96: 49.9%
1994-95: 50.0%
1993-94: 48.5%
1992-93: 49.1%
1991-92: 48.7%
1990-91: 48.7%
1989-90: 48.9%
1988-89: 48.9%
1987-88: 48.9%
1986-87: 48.8%
1985-86: 49.3%
1984-85: 49.6%
Average 1984-2011: 48.8%

League Average eFG% during Jordan's Career: 48.9%
(average of 1984-85 season through 1992-93 season, 1994-95 season through 1997-98 season, 2001-02 season and 2002-03 season)

League Average eFG% "up until '96": 49.1%

League Average eFG% during Kobe's Career: 48.5%

MJ's eFG% (career): 50.9%
Kobe's eFG% (career): 48.8%

As you can see, on average eFG% has barely moved at all since 1984-85


The reason overall FG% has gone down is because significantly more threes are being taken. For example, in 1984-85 the TEAM leader in 3's was the Dallas Mavericks, making 152 threes on the season on 443 attempts. Only 5 TEAMS made 100+ threes that year. By comparison, Dorrel Wright made 194 threes himself this pasts eason and 59 PLAYERS made 100+ threes this past season. That's not a product of trying to "confuse" the defense, its just that most people born in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s who played in the 1980s and 1990s never played with a 3 point line their entire lives until it was introduced in the NBA in 1979-80 sans some ABA players and some years they had it in college bball and some they didn't.

So you obviously can't compare fg%s (which you did when you brought up Barkley) but eFG% is more relevant and, as you can see, that has not changed much over the years.

Barkley shot 60% cause he was a beast, not because it was "easier".
Waste of a post unfortunately. The chances a troll would respond to this are low, as he's going to have nothing to say in rebuttal. Great post though:cheers:

[andgar923]

Waste of a post unfortunately. The chances a troll would respond to this are low, as he's going to have nothing to say in rebuttal. Great post though:cheers:

81 pts>>>>>>

[tontoz]

As if further proof was needed on the fallacy of the 3 point argument Kobe's TS% for all shots was 54.8% this past season. However his EFG% from 3 was only 48.5%.

[DJ Leon Smith]

Just an fyi, shooting 35% from three is the same as 50% from two.

100% bullshit. If you shoot a three, the only way you score is from hitting that shot. If you take the ball inside you can score from hitting the shot, drawing defenders and passing to an open man, or getting fouled.

[chips93]

Kobe isn't going to get to the foul line very often jacking 3s. He isn't going to set up easy opportunities for other players standing at the 3 point line. That argument doesn't hold water.


thats why i said


technically more efficeint statistically speaking

and


this is of course ignore all of the advantages of shooting shots at the rim that guy pointed out

[gengiskhan]

A great example of why MJ is so much better than Kobe

Kobe should've been 54%
MJ should've been 49%

Reason

If MJ played with Shaq for first 8 years as a prime focus of opposition's defense, MJ would NEVER ave less than 54%FG from 2-pt range as a 2nd focus of defense.

impossible.

MJ throughout his career was opponents prime focus of extreme hand check, double triple teams & took tons of unnecessary last min shots & made them too. :bowdown:

Kobe aint even close despite being a 2nd focus after hack-a-Shaq era.

[AlphaWolf24]

A great example of why MJ is so much better than Kobe

Kobe should've been 54%
MJ should've been 49%

Reason

If MJ played with Shaq for first 8 years as a prime focus of opposition's defense, MJ would NEVER ave less than 54%FG from 2-pt range as a 2nd focus of defense.

impossible.

MJ throughout his career was opponents prime focus of extreme hand check, double triple teams & took tons of unnecessary last min shots & made them too. :bowdown:

Kobe aint even close despite being a 2nd focus after hack-a-Shaq era.


So when MJ retired in 1993 why did 7 players on the Bull's shoot a Higher FG% while taking more shots then they did in 1993 with Jordan on the TEAM??...


In Fact Pippen , Grant and BJ all shot way better , scored more points and all made the allstar team without MJ there as you say " MJ was the prime focus of extreme hand check, double triple teams "..


OH Chicago as a whole played better defense and offense without " prime focus of extreme hand check, double triple teams MJ there "

[NumberSix]

Barkley shot 60% one season in that era...dont you get it:facepalm
Yes, Barkley was a great player. I think we all understand that.

[gengiskhan]

So when MJ retired in 1993 why did 7 players on the Bull's shoot a Higher FG% while taking more shots then they did in 1993 with Jordan on the TEAM??...


In Fact Pippen , Grant and BJ all shot way better , scored more points and all made the allstar team without MJ there as you say " MJ was the prime focus of extreme hand check, double triple teams "..


OH Chicago as a whole played better defense and offense without " prime focus of extreme hand check, double triple teams MJ there "

Kobe failed to shoot over 47%FG despite shaq hogging the defensive focus. worry about that.

instead of running around the bush figuring out how 1994 bulls shot good FG%.

[NumberSix]

6 rings

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Kobe failed to shoot over 47%FG despite shaq hogging the defensive focus. worry about that.

instead of running around the bush figuring out how 1994 bulls shot good FG%.

:facepalm Dude just because you have Shaq on your team doesn't mean that you are going to shoot 50%+. Guards rarely do that in the modern era. Especially when they are relied upon to score heavily. You act like teams would just leave Kobe all of the time and not even guard him. What about when Shaq was on the bench? Or when he didn't play due to injury? Teams can key in on Kobe.

Besides, he shot 47% in 2002. He was shooting around 47% in 2000 and 2009 anyway

[oolalaa]

This is complete BS.

league average eFG% by season:

2010-11: 49.8%
2009-10: 50.1%
2008-09: 50.0%
2007-08: 49.7%
2006-07: 49.6%
2005-06: 49.0%
2004-05: 48.2%
2003-04: 47.1%
2002-03: 47.4%
2001-02: 47.7%
2000-01: 47.3%
1999-00: 47.8%
1998-99: 46.6%
1997-98: 47.8%
1996-97: 49.3%
1995-96: 49.9%
1994-95: 50.0%
1993-94: 48.5%
1992-93: 49.1%
1991-92: 48.7%
1990-91: 48.7%
1989-90: 48.9%
1988-89: 48.9%
1987-88: 48.9%
1986-87: 48.8%
1985-86: 49.3%
1984-85: 49.6%
Average 1984-2011: 48.8%

League Average eFG% during Jordan's Career: 48.9%
(average of 1984-85 season through 1992-93 season, 1994-95 season through 1997-98 season, 2001-02 season and 2002-03 season)

League Average eFG% "up until '96": 49.1%

League Average eFG% during Kobe's Career: 48.5%

MJ's eFG% (career): 50.9%
Kobe's eFG% (career): 48.8%

As you can see, on average eFG% has barely moved at all since 1984-85


The reason overall FG% has gone down is because significantly more threes are being taken. For example, in 1984-85 the TEAM leader in 3's was the Dallas Mavericks, making 152 threes on the season on 443 attempts. Only 5 TEAMS made 100+ threes that year. By comparison, Dorrel Wright made 194 threes himself this pasts eason and 59 PLAYERS made 100+ threes this past season. That's not a product of trying to "confuse" the defense, its just that most people born in the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s who played in the 1980s and 1990s never played with a 3 point line their entire lives until it was introduced in the NBA in 1979-80 sans some ABA players and some years they had it in college bball and some they didn't.

So you obviously can't compare fg%s (which you did when you brought up Barkley) but eFG% is more relevant and, as you can see, that has not changed much over the years.

Barkley shot 60% cause he was a beast, not because it was "easier".

:applause:

end of thread

[Da_Realist]

So when MJ retired in 1993 why did 7 players on the Bull's shoot a Higher FG% while taking more shots then they did in 1993 with Jordan on the TEAM??...


In Fact Pippen , Grant and BJ all shot way better , scored more points and all made the allstar team without MJ there as you say " MJ was the prime focus of extreme hand check, double triple teams "..


OH Chicago as a whole played better defense and offense without " prime focus of extreme hand check, double triple teams MJ there "

I don't know where you are getting this from but you're stupid if you think the 94 Bulls were better defensively than the other Bulls teams with Jordan on it. You're probably looking at some made up Hollinger type numbers but that's stupid. I doubt any team, if given one shot to win it all, would rather avoid the 94 Bulls over the others.

[MasterDurant24]

Then why were outside shooters like Miller and Mullin having seasons shooting over 50%? The style of play was focused on offense with less emphasis on stopping the other team at all costs, that's why. You can go back and watch. Defenders will give up on a play quicker/easier than they do now.
For one thing, Mullin didn't shoot a bunch of three pointers till later in his career, except in 1990.

[Smoke117]

Kobe failed to shoot over 47%FG despite shaq hogging the defensive focus. worry about that.

instead of running around the bush figuring out how 1994 bulls shot good FG%.


LMFAO gengiskhan you are the biggest douche Jordan fan boy on this board, period. You have nothing to say that the three player next best scorers after Jordan were actually BETTER without him being there the following season so just try to put emphasis on something about Kobe....****ing pathetic.

The only reason I bring that up though and it pains me to say this because it may happen to support you...is that Scottie Pippen was actually dealing with a severe ankle sprain for most of the 93 season...he played 81 games but he was mostly playing through that injury that obviously limited his play if the 92 season was an barometer. Scottie is my favorite player of all time, but to just be fair to the 93 Bulls with Jordan...it wasn't just complacency but the fact that Scottie was dealing with injury. Honestly I think you could even mention Grant because of a big part of Grants game was set up by Scottie in the 91 and 92 seasons so with Scottie ailing Horace hurt too. That's pretty much the main reason why Jordan probably felt he had to take so much upon himself that season...he wasn't the scorer he was in 91 or 92 but he took more shots because the team was ailing. I've lost focus of my point to begin with, but that is just a bit of info I suppose...

[Teanett]

Kobe isn't better than Jordan dude...get over it.
:D

[cteach111]

i think you need to break down the 2P% a little more. I dunno.. maybe like pre-91 MJ, 91-93 MJ, 96-98 MJ, then suckage 02-03 MJ.

Kobe's a bit harder to do because it's hard to pinpoint the peaks and valleys in his career. Some posters like 02-03 Kobe as a peak instead of the late Kobe. Maybe something like '00-03 Kobe, '06 and '07 Kobe, then '08-'10 Kobe..

[ukplayer4]

Don't worry, I'll wait for your next "BETWEEN THE AGES OF 24.5 AND 25.1 ON WEDNESDAYS IN GAMES THAT STARTED AFTER 8PM KOBE SHOOTS ONLY 1% WORSE THAN JORDAN WHO PLAYED IN A WEAK ERA BECAUSE ONLY ONE PERSON WON ALL THOSE FINAL MVPS SO THEREFORE KOBE IS BETTER" thread.


:roll:

[Asukal]

Kobe is better than Jordan when Jordan sleeps. Kobe>Jordan! :banana:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Eliteballer continues to prove himself to be one of the biggest trolls on the board, and a huge and obnoxious Kobe stan. His OP glosses over some important details. Let's examine them for Kobe and Jordan from age 21-30 (the effective portion of a player's career):

MJ's 2FG%: 53.2% (+4.8% FG above Kobe; +4.2% above league average)

MJ's 2FG PPG: 32.1 ppg (+5.3 ppg above Kobe)


Kobe's 2FG%: 48.4% (+1.1% above league average)

Kobe's 2FG PPG: 26.8 ppg


As you can see, Jordan not only has a large edge in FG% on his 2-pointers (nearly 5% FG difference, which is HUGE), he also has a large edge in points scored on 2-pointers (5+ ppg). So not only was he waaaay more efficient on his 2-pointers, he was doing so on significantly higher volume as well. He also shot nearly 4x higher above league average 2FG% than Kobe did.

There's no debate or discussion here. Eliteballer is a troll of the highest order.

[Soothing Layup]

Kobe was only good when he had his afro. No afro = No swag

[Asukal]

Kobe was only good when he had his afro. No afro = No swag

Kobe has hair, Jordan doesn't. Kobe>>>>Jordan. :banana: :banana: :banana:

[Jacks3]

Pretty much no difference between them in terms of efficiency.

Kobe: 56% TS
Jordan: 57% TS

Kobe was also more efficient in his scoring peak, and of course, he played in a much tougher defensive era...while MJ played in the worst (80's and early 90's)

[amfirst]

People need to get over the hand check argument. Show me a hand check in the 90s that they still don't do in the 2000s. Plus, it's not wise hand check all the time because u can easily blow by the defender if they are close enough to put their hands on you that's why u don't see many done even in the 90s.

[EricForman]

this thread is calling for a lengthy feline

[OldSchoolBBall]

Pretty much no difference between them in terms of efficiency.

Kobe: 56% TS
Jordan: 57% TS

Kobe was also more efficient in his scoring peak, and of course, he played in a much tougher defensive era...while MJ played in the worst (80's and early 90's)

More bullshit from Kobe stans. Ages 21-30:

Jordan: 32.5 ppg on 59.2% TS

Kobe: 28.0 ppg on 55.8% TS

Again we see that Jordan has a sizable edge in volume and a large edge in efficiency.

Kobe was more efficient in his scoring peak? No.

Jordan's two peak seasons:

37.1 ppg on 48.2% FG/56.2% TS
35.0 ppg on 53.5% FG/60.3% TS

Average: 36.1 ppg on 50.9% FG/58.3% TS

Kobe's two peak seasons:

35.4 ppg on 45.0% FG/55.9% TS
31.6 ppg on 46.3% FG/58.0% TS

Average: 33.5 ppg on 45.7% FG/ 57.0% TS

Again, note Jordan's edge in volume and efficiency across the board.

[Dave3]

More bullshit from Kobe stans. Ages 21-30:

Jordan: 32.5 ppg on 59.2% TS

Kobe: 28.0 ppg on 55.8% TS

Again we see that Jordan has a sizable edge in volume and a large edge in efficiency.

Kobe was more efficient in his scoring peak? No.

Jordan's two peak seasons:

37.1 ppg on 48.2% FG/56.2% TS
35.0 ppg on 53.5% FG/60.3% TS

Average: 36.1 ppg on 50.9% FG/58.3% TS

Kobe's two peak seasons:

35.4 ppg on 45.0% FG/55.9% TS
31.6 ppg on 46.3% FG/58.0% TS

Average: 33.5 ppg on 45.7% FG/ 57.0% TS

Again, note Jordan's edge in volume and efficiency across the board.
Yeah, I didn't even bother checking the stats to not believe that one. Not to mention Jordan has a few more seasons of ~32 ppg with 60+ TS%...

[DMAVS41]

who cares about the regular season?

playoffs:

jordan 33/6/6 49/33/82 57% TS

kobe 25/5/5 45/34/82 54% TS

[andgar923]

who cares about the regular season?

playoffs:

jordan 33/6/6 49/33/82 57% TS

kobe 25/5/5 45/34/82 54% TS

Aww snap..... you went there.

[DMAVS41]

Aww snap..... you went there.

Well, for great players like Kobe and Jordan....what does it really matter what they do in the regular season. I want to know how those guys perform in the most important games.

I don't really care all that much when over half the league in the regular season is garbage anyway.

Who cares what Jordan does against the Grizzlies in the regular season..etc. Doesn't mean much at all.

I think its all about the playoffs for the elite players.

[GOBB]

Oh gee, another Kobe/MJ thread. Whats one more? :confusedshrug:

Also what is TS and why should I care about that stat or whatever it is?

[kumquat]

:roll::roll::roll:

People still trying to compare Kobe to Jordan. I'd like to find any person on the planet who would seriously take Kobe over Jordan.

but but but Kobe scored 81 on the Raptors :lol:lol:lol

**** outta here tards

[kumquat]

People need to get over the hand check argument. Show me a hand check in the 90s that they still don't do in the 2000s. Plus, it's not wise hand check all the time because u can easily blow by the defender if they are close enough to put their hands on you that's why u don't see many done even in the 90s.

Seriously WTF you try playing with someone pulling on your jersey or when you're trying to drive get someone to hold your dribble direction by leaning on you. Holy **** when will the lockout end so we can get rid of this bull shit

[GOBB]

:roll::roll::roll:

People still trying to compare Kobe to Jordan. I'd like to find any person on the planet who would seriously take Kobe over Jordan.

but but but Kobe scored 81 on the Raptors :lol:lol:lol

**** outta here tards

Same thing said about people taking MJ over Wilt.

[All Net]

:facepalm

[Jacks3]

Pretty much no difference between them in terms of efficiency.

Kobe: 56% TS
Jordan: 57% TS

Kobe was also more efficient in his scoring peak, and of course, he played in a much tougher defensive era...while MJ played in the worst (80's and early 90's)
Also, Kobe's peak scoring season> MJ's.

Kobe career high>>>MJ's

Kobe's "Hot-Hand">>>MJ's

Kobe>MJ.

[Jacks3]

More bullshit from Kobe stans. Ages 21-30:


lol @ only using years 21-30. :oldlol:

Let's look at their entire careers:

MJ--57%
Kobe--56%

Yup. Practically no difference, and of course, Kobe does it in a much better defensive era.



Kobe was more efficient in his scoring peak? No.



Yeah, he was. It's a fact.

[tontoz]

Career TS%

Kobe 55.6%
Jordan 56.9%

Obviously that includes some weak years at the end of Jordan's career.


Kobe's best TS% ever was 58.7%. Jordan beat that as a rookie. Jordan had 4 straight years over 60%.

[Da_Realist]

Also what is TS and why should I care about that stat or whatever it is?

This.

[tontoz]

Oh gee, another Kobe/MJ thread. Whats one more? :confusedshrug:

Also what is TS and why should I care about that stat or whatever it is?


TS% is a measure of overall scoring efficiency that includes foul shots and 3 pointers.


Say you have two players who shoots 45% from the field. One guy shoots a lot of 3s and gets to the foul line a lot, the other doesn't. Which guy is a more efficient scorer?

[OldSchoolBBall]

lol @ only using years 21-30. :oldlol:

Let's look at their entire careers:

MJ--57%
Kobe--56%

Yup. Practically no difference


Age 21-30 comprises the bulk of a player's effective career. It makes perfect sense to look at these years to see how players played when in their prime. I can add MJ's season at age 33 and it wouldn't make things look much better for Kobe at all. :oldlol:

lmao @ the excuses. :oldlol:


Yeah, he was. It's a fact.

I just proved otherwise. How are you ignoring the facts?


Kobe's best TS% ever was 58.7%.

No, Kobe's best TS% was 58.0%, which Jordan bettered or equaled 6 times (and had another season which is basically equal, with 57.9% vs. 58.0%),

[Jacks3]

lol @ the selective bull-shit to make your boy look better.

Loco being loco.


MJ: 84-93+96-98---58%
Kobe: 00-10---56% TS

Very little difference. The volume means nothing because we have ample evidence that KOBE has no problem maintaining or even increasing his efficiency with more usage.

And of course, Kobe's peak scoring season> MJ's.

And of course, Kobe's scoring skill-set>MJ's

And of course, Kobe plays in a better defensive era.

Kobe. Truly the best scorer ever.

[tontoz]

No, Kobe's best TS% was 58.0%,

I accidentally posted his playoff numbers.

[tontoz]

.

And of course, Kobe's peak scoring season> MJ's.



:oldlol:


Jodan's peak scoring season

37.1 ppg shooting a TS of 56.2%


When exactly did Kobe beat that? :rolleyes:

[guy]

lol @ the selective bull-shit to make your boy look better.

Loco being loco.


MJ: 84-93+96-98---58%
Kobe: 00-10---56% TS

Very little difference. The volume means nothing because we have ample evidence that KOBE has no problem maintaining or even increasing his efficiency with more usage.

And of course, Kobe's peak scoring season> MJ's.

And of course, Kobe's scoring skill-set>MJ's

And of course, Kobe plays in a better defensive era.

Kobe. Truly the best scorer ever.

:oldlol: @ a Kobe fan accusing someone of being selective to make someone look better. You're the ones that constantly want to ignore the first 3-4 years of his career because he came out of high school. Oh the hypocrisy.

[Boston C's]

lol @ only using years 21-30. :oldlol:

Let's look at their entire careers:

MJ--57%
Kobe--56%

Yup. Practically no difference, and of course, Kobe does it in a much better defensive era.



Yeah, he was. It's a fact.

Jacks your lookin stupid here man :facepalm he JUST showed you numbers for both of their peaks that CLEARLY show that jordan was better and more efficient then kobe and you keep callin for the facts when they are right in front of your face :facepalm and enough of the weak era bullshit from you kobe stans the modern day players of today have said themselves that the 90's were way tougher to score then the 2000's... I'll take the players word then you kobe stans

[okayabc123]

I still cannot believe that there are still people who think Kobe is better than MJ. I have the utmost respect for Kobe as a player, he is a great player, but he is not Jordan. Never been, never will be.

[DMAVS41]

Wait a minute. Volume means nothing. What?????????????????

What you Kobe stans don't understand is that Jordan won titles and set regular season records scoring at a really high rate.

Kind of like 92 when Jordan put up 35/6/6 on 50/39/86 in the playoffs. The idea that Kobe could ever do that while leading his team to a title is laughable.

[PJR]

This dude Jacks3 gargles Kobe's semen, man.

[Jacks3]

05-07 Kobe. The G.O.A.T scorer.

33.5 PPG/57% TS
20 50+ point games
46 40+ point games
81 points
62 points in three quarters
5 60+ point games
4 straight 50+ point games
4 straight 45+ point games

To accomplish all that in just two seasons. :eek:

Just imagine what he would have done if he chucked his entire career like Jordan? :eek:

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[NBASTATMAN]

05-07 Kobe. The G.O.A.T scorer.

33.5 PPG/57% TS
20 50+ point games
46 40+ point games
81 points
62 points in three quarters
5 60+ point games
4 straight 50+ point games
4 straight 45+ point games

To accomplish all that in just two seasons. :eek:

Just imagine what he would have done if he chucked his entire career like Jordan? :eek:

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:


So you are saying kobe hasn't chucked his entire career... LOL... Didn't Phil call him a gunslinger... :roll:

Remind me what kobe did in the playoffs those two seasons.. Against a defense that scuked.

I will be back when bball comes back.. Be safe everyone..

[Dave3]

05-07 Kobe. The G.O.A.T scorer.

33.5 PPG/57% TS
20 50+ point games
46 40+ point games
81 points
62 points in three quarters
5 60+ point games
4 straight 50+ point games
4 straight 45+ point games

To accomplish all that in just two seasons. :eek:

Just imagine what he would have done if he chucked his entire career like Jordan? :eek:

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Jordan over 86-88:
36.03 PPG/58.1 TS%
(12 50+ points)
(43 40+ points)
63 points...IN THE PLAYOFFS

Jordan is both higher in volume average, AND efficiency average. What does Kobe have over him?

BTW, looking over Game Logs on basketball-reference.com, Kobe only has 29 40+ point games and 16 50+ point games.

So Jordan scored 40+ 14 more times in his 2 year span, while Kobe scored 50+ 4 more times.

Speaking objectively as someone who's in no way a fan of Jordan (dude retired before I ever watched an NBA game), how do those stats favour Kobe? Jordan wins in effiency, volume, 40 point games, AND playoff scoring (which tests scoring against higher level defense). Kobe wins in a couple more 50 point games including one 80 point game. That's it...how is that even close to a compelling (let alone justifiable) argument for Kobe?

[eliteballer]

Kobe has only had a few years in his career where he's needed to score 30+PPG. First he had Shaq then he had Gasol/Bynum/Odom.

Really....comparing numbers playing on a bad team in the 80's to now is just absurd. The defense and style of play then is in no way comparable.

[RRR3]

Kobe has only had a few years in his career where he's needed to score 30+PPG. First he had Shaq then he had Gasol/Bynum/Odom.

Really....comparing numbers playing on a bad team in the 80's to now is just absurd. The defense and style of play then is in no way comparable.
Too bad he shoots so much that he is clearly trying to score 30+PPG every single year.

[Jacks3]

Jordan over 86-88:

Weaker era. Faster pace. Defenses clearly not as good. Deal with it.




BTW, looking over Game Logs on basketball-reference.com, Kobe only has 29 40+ point games and 16 50+ point games.
What? Kobe over that 2-yr span had 45 40+ point games and 18 50+ point games. What the hell.


So Jordan scored 40+ 14 more times in his 2 year span, while Kobe scored 50+ 4 more times.
Wrong.


That's it...how is that even close to a compelling (let alone justifiable) argument for Kobe?
You're numbers are wrong, and deceiving in any case, as Kobe has obviously played in a tougher defensive era and has the greater scoring skill-set, which doesn't show up in the numbers. Deal with it.

:pimp:

[Jacks3]

05-07 Kobe. The G.O.A.T scorer.

33.5 PPG/57% TS
20 50+ point games
46 40+ point games
81 points
62 points in three quarters
5 60+ point games
4 straight 50+ point games
4 straight 45+ point games

To accomplish all that in just two seasons. :eek:

Just imagine what he would have done if he chucked his entire career like Jordan? :eek:

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
Just wanted to add. Kobe wasn't just the best scorer in the league during his peak. He was significantly better than anybody else. And this is a league with LeBron/Wade/Arenas/Pierce/Carter/T-Mac/Dirk etc. Insane.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[RRR3]

Just wanted to add. Kobe wasn't just the best scorer in the league during his peak. He was significantly better than anybody else. And this is a league with LeBron/Wade/Arenas/Pierce/Carter/T-Mac/Dirk etc. Insane.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:
That's probably because LBJ and Wade don't shotjack and T-Mac was out of his prime.

[tontoz]

Kobe has only had a few years in his career where he's needed to score 30+PPG. First he had Shaq then he had Gasol/Bynum/Odom.

Really....comparing numbers playing on a bad team in the 80's to now is just absurd. The defense and style of play then is in no way comparable.

So since he hasn't had to score as much he is able to take better shots and score with more efficiency, right?

[Jacks3]

lmao @ the excuses. What's funny is that Kobe was actually more efficient than either Bron or Wade during this stretch, and prime T-Mac never came close to the scoring feats Kobe had during that time, even during his absolute peak.

:roll:

[Jacks3]

Oh, and Kobe led better offenses during his scoring peak than Jordan did.

Clearly, Kobe is better. Jordan stans--U sad?

[RRR3]

lmao @ the excuses. What's funny is that Kobe was actually more efficient than either Bron or Wade during this stretch, and prime T-Mac never came close to the scoring feats Kobe had during that time, even during his absolute peak.

:roll:
Prime T-Mac never took over 40 shots in a game. Not once. And he was a shotjacker (although he had to be on the Magic). In fact, McGrady never shot more than 37 times in a game in his career. LeBron's career high? 36. Wade's? 39. Kobe? He has shot over 40 shots in a game SEVEN times, more than any other player in NBA history, and he has shot over 36 or more 22 times! LeBron has shot 36 or more ONCE in his career. ONCE. And it was 36 even. Wade has shot 36 or more twice.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Prime T-Mac never took over 40 shots in a game. Not once. And he was a shotjacker (although he had to be on the Magic). In fact, McGrady never shot more than 37 times in a game in his career. LeBron's career high? 36. Wade's? 39. Kobe? He has shot over 40 shots in a game SEVEN times, more than any other player in NBA history, and he has shot over 36 or more 22 times! LeBron has shot 36 or more ONCE in his career. ONCE. And it was 36 even. Wade has shot 36 or more twice.

What's your point? Just hoisting shots doesn't mean you score a lot. Kobe was able to maintain his regular efficiency while upping his volume. That's not shotjacking.

Jordan has taken more shots than Kobe, as well as missed more. Does that make him a shotjacker? Of course not

[RRR3]

BTW in Kobe's career high in field goal attempts (47) he made a grand total of 17 or 36 percent. And he was 0-8 from three.

[Jacks3]

Prime T-Mac never took over 40 shots in a game
Yawn. More excuses. The fact is, Kobe at his peak destroyed T-Mac in terms of volume and he did it on better efficiency.

T-Mac Career 50+ point games in 14 seasons--4
Kobe in 2007 alone---10

:oldlol:

[Doranku]

Prime T-Mac never took over 40 shots in a game. Not once. And he was a shotjacker (although he had to be on the Magic). In fact, McGrady never shot more than 37 times in a game in his career. LeBron's career high? 36. Wade's? 39. Kobe? He has shot over 40 shots in a game SEVEN times, more than any other player in NBA history, and he has shot over 36 or more 22 times! LeBron has shot 36 or more ONCE in his career. ONCE. And it was 36 even. Wade has shot 36 or more twice.

Well considering he only plays for 3 quarters, I'm not sure why this comes as a surprise to you.

[Jacks3]

BTW, Kobe once took 46 shots, hit 28, and scored 81 points.

The G.O.A.T performance.

[RRR3]

What's your point? Just hoisting shots doesn't mean you score a lot. Kobe was able to maintain his regular efficiency while upping his volume. That's not shotjacking.

Jordan has taken more shots than Kobe, as well as missed more. Does that make him a shotjacker? Of course not
Jordan shotjacked at times, but he was efficient in general. Sorry, but Kobe's had too many 17-47, 17-41, 19-44, 6-24, etc. stinkers for me to not call him a shotjacker

[RRR3]

Yawn. More excuses. The fact is, Kobe at his peak destroyed T-Mac in terms of volume and he did it on better efficiency.

T-Mac Career 50+ point games in 14 seasons--4
Kobe in 2007 alone---10

:oldlol:
That's nice. Prime T-Mac outscored Kobe 3 straight years (2001-02 to 2003-04).

[RRR3]

BTW, Kobe once took 46 shots, hit 28, and scored 81 points.

The G.O.A.T performance.
Yeah against the Toronto Raptors! :roll: ANd Wilt scored 100. Beat that.

[RRR3]

Well considering he only plays for 3 quarters, I'm not sure why this comes as a surprise to you.
:rolleyes: Because a few bad games in this years finals erases him being the league leading scorer in the 4th quarter for the last few years.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Jordan shotjacked at times, but he was efficient in general. Sorry, but Kobe's had too many 17-47, 17-41, 19-44, 6-24, etc. stinkers for me to not call him a shotjacker

So because of some games he's had he's a shotjacker? :oldlol: Yup let's ignore his career efficiency and just point out bad games

You know how many horrible shooting games other star players had?

[RRR3]

So because of some games he's had he's a shotjacker? :oldlol: Yup let's ignore his career efficiency and just point out bad games

You know how many horrible shooting games other star players had?
Well, I thought a few games proved everything. After all, we all know LeBron is the worst player ever because of a few games. And we all know Kobe>>>>Jordan because his highest scoring game was better than MJ's.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Yeah against the Toronto Raptors! :roll: ANd Wilt scored 100. Beat that.

LeBron had his career high against the same team :roll:

[Jacks3]

And yet far better and more efficient than T-Wack.

Kobe 2 yr peak: 33.5 PPG/57% TS/46 40+ point games/18 50+ point games
T-Wack: 30.2 PPG/55% TS/19 40+ point games/4 50+ point games

Damn. Not even remotely close. :oldlol:

[RRR3]

LeBron had his career high against the same team :roll:
Which proves how bad they are. Everyone kills them. And I didn't realize I ever said LeBron was a better scorer than Kobe?

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Well, I thought a few games proved everything. After all, we all know LeBron is the worst player ever because of a few games. And we all know Kobe>>>>Jordan because his highest scoring game was better than MJ's.

Yup because that's totally what I was inferring :rolleyes:

[Jacks3]

That's nice. .

And yet far better and more efficient than T-Wack.

Kobe 2 yr peak: 33.5 PPG/57% TS/46 40+ point games/18 50+ point games
T-Wack: 30.2 PPG/55% TS/19 40+ point games/4 50+ point games

Damn. Not even remotely close. :oldlol:

[Droid101]

Adjusted for pace (points per 75 possessions), Kobe's insane scoring season is mere percentage points below Jordan's, at the exact same relative True Shooting percentage to the rest of the league.

http://www.backpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/top-scoring-rates-regular-season.jpg

But go ahead and keep thinking Jordan was vastly superior to Kobe at scoring the ball.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Which proves how bad they are. Everyone kills them. And I didn't realize I ever said LeBron was a better scorer than Kobe?

No it's funny because people want to say "Omgz it was the Craptorz!"

If it were that easy why didn't anyone else do it? Scoring 81 points in a game by yourself is a monumental feat whether you like it or not

[Big#50]

Jordan played againt weaker competition. Kobe played in a perimeter player friendly era.
It is safe to say they are very close. But MJ did more. So MJ>Kobe

[RRR3]

No it's funny because people want to say "Omgz it was the Craptorz!"

If it were that easy why didn't anyone else do it? Scoring 81 points in a game by yourself is a monumental feat whether you like it or not
I never said it wasn't one of the greatest games ever. I just don't like when people use it to justify Kobe being better than he is.

[Dave3]

Weaker era. Faster pace. Defenses clearly not as good. Deal with it.

What? Kobe over that 2-yr span had 45 40+ point games and 18 50+ point games. What the hell.

Wrong.

You're numbers are wrong, and deceiving in any case, as Kobe has obviously played in a tougher defensive era and has the greater scoring skill-set, which doesn't show up in the numbers. Deal with it.

:pimp:
1. I never said anything about era. You said Kobe was more efficient, the numbers disagree. You're now changing what you said initially, which is that Jordan's stats don't beat Kobe's but they do. That's all I was showing.

2. Show me the website bro...here's from basketball-reference.com:
for 2007: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/gamelog/2007/ Clearly it says 8 40+ point games here.
and 2006: http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/b/bryanko01/gamelog/2006 And it clearly says 21 here.
So you're the one who's wrong, unless you can show me a website that says differently.

3. No, I just showed you, you were wrong lol.

4. My numbers are from a reliable NBA box score website. Yours are from your own head. I'm going to go ahead and believe my numbers over your fabricated ones unless you can show me a source.

You're wrong all over the place...

[Dave3]

Adjusted for pace (points per 75 possessions), Kobe's insane scoring season is mere percentage points below Jordan's, at the exact same relative True Shooting percentage to the rest of the league.

http://www.backpicks.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/top-scoring-rates-regular-season.jpg

But go ahead and keep thinking Jordan was vastly superior to Kobe at scoring the ball.
Kobe is close to Jordan ONE season, and then Jordan owns the freaking 5 consecutive spots after it, and Kobe doesn't show up until spot number 22, in which players such as Dominique, Malone, Wade, Kidd, LeBron (twice), Tmac and Shaq show up. Oh, and 98 Jordan is also ahead of 2007 Kobe according to that list. If you wanted to make an argument, that is definitely not the chart you wanted to be showing lol...

[Jacks3]

1. I never said anything about era.

Nope.Better go back and read again.


So you're the one who's wrong, unless you can show me a website that says differently.
:oldlol:

8 40+ point games in 2007? He had 10 50+ point games that year alone. You're just way off. :roll:




4. My numbers are from a reliable NBA box score website. Yours are from your own head. I'm going to go ahead and believe my numbers over your fabricated ones unless you can show me a source.
Wow. This is crazy. :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

lol @ Dave3 thinking 40+ implies only 40-49 pts. :roll:

[Dave3]

Nope.Better go back and read again.


:oldlol:

8 40+ point games in 2007? He had 10 50+ point games that year alone. You're just way off. :roll:




Wow. This is crazy. :oldlol:
I know what I said. I never mentioned era. What do you mean read it again? How about you try reading it again. I never argued era or defense or pace.

Yeah, they separate the 50 point games from 40. Otherwise then Jordan would have 55 40+ point games (adding up the 43 that website gives him with the 12 50 point games he had), in which case, he STILL wins that category (and under the new stat, Kobe would have 45, so actually one more than you thought). Still Jordan wins though 55-45. Point still stands, Jordan wins in everything except for 4 more 50 point games and one 81 point outburst (included in the 4 extra 50+ games).

Still waiting on this website you apparently got "20 50+ point games"...
laughing isn't going to make the numbers anymore reliable lol...

[Dave3]

lol @ Dave3 thinking 40+ implies only 40-49 pts. :roll:
Hey you know what, I can admit I was wrong. When I typed 40+, I meant 40-49. Unfortunately that didn't change anything, because I was using the same measurement for Jordan (40-49, not 40+) so he still wins that category.

Now can you admit you were wrong about
1. Kobe being more efficient, as Jordan's TS% is higher.
2. I never argued about era.
3. The number of 50+ point games Kobe had.

I admitted I was wrong. Let's see if you can do the same or if you prefer denial.

[GreatGreg]

Eliteballer continues to look like more and more of a retard every time he ****ing posts.

[Jacks3]

Still waiting on this website you apparently got "20 50+ point games"...
laughing isn't going to make the numbers anymore reliable lol...
No, you read again, and it was obvious that I meant when I said 40+ point games. Just admit you were wrong. I don't need a website. He had 10+ 50 point games in 2007 and 7 in 206 for a total of 17 (though it was 20, my bad)

[Dave3]

No, you read again, and it was obvious that I meant when I said 40+ point games. Just admit you were wrong. I don't need a website. He had 10+ 50 point games in 2007 and 7 in 206 for a total of 17 (though it was 20, my bad)
He actually had 6 in 2006, for 16, not 17 overall 50+ point games. And I already admitted I was wrong. Let's see if you can do the same.

[GreatGreg]

I have the entire Kobetard brigade on ignore, and you should too.

eliteballer, Jacks3, Fatal9, The-Legend-24, and Alpha-Wolf-24.

[Jacks3]

And I already admitted I was wrong. Let's see if you can do the same.
I pretty much did. :confusedshrug:

Why so mad?

[Dave3]

I have the entire Kobetard brigade on ignore, and you should too.

eliteballer, Jacks3, Fatal9, The-Legend-24, and Alpha-Wolf-24.
Eh...accounts keep getting banned and remade. Alphawolf24 before was alphawolf, and before that was alphawolf(something else) and the-legend-24 is another account (join date like July 2011?) that's a continuation of previous probably 5 or 6 accounts that all got banned. I mean the list of banned Kobe accounts for this website would probably reach 30 in at least the period I've been here (early 2009). For alphawolf or legend24 I ignore without actually having them on ignore. Jacks3 used to have some decent posts but he's gotten way worse for some reason. Fatal9 I'm convinced is bipolar or just trolls for fun. He makes 180 degree turns in his opinions every 6 months or so lol.

[Dave3]

I pretty much did. :confusedshrug:

Alright. Guess I'm done here then:cheers:

[kaiiu]

I see Jack got these ni99as mad doe like. Keep it up boiiiiiiiiii

[OldSchoolBBall]

05-07 Kobe. The G.O.A.T scorer.

33.5 PPG/57% TS
20 50+ point games
46 40+ point games
81 points
62 points in three quarters
5 60+ point games
4 straight 50+ point games
4 straight 45+ point games

To accomplish all that in just two seasons. :eek:

Just imagine what he would have done if he chucked his entire career like Jordan? :eek:

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Where are you getting 20 games of 50+ points in those two seasons from? He scored 50+ in 16 games in 2006 and 2007 combined, not 20 games. A more minor point, he scored 40+ points in 45 games, not 46 games.

The dirty little secret of Kobe's scoring spree those years? The average record of teams he scored 40+ against was 39-42. The average record of teams he scored 50+ against was 37-45. Kobe Bryant: best scorer against garbage teams during the regular season in history. :oldlol:

And your last little jab at Jordan is also bogus, because Jordan also did most of his damage in two seasons: he had 55 games of 40+ points in '87/'88 and 12 games of 50+ points in those two seasons (plus two games of 50+ in the '88 playoffs - he had more games of 50+ points in the opening two games of the playoffs than Kobe has had in his entire playoff career! LULZ :oldlol:).

[Jacks3]

. Jacks3 used to have some decent posts but he's gotten way worse for some reason.
All of my posts are 100% correct son.

[Dave3]

All of my posts are 100% correct son.
Lol, you just said you admitted you were wrong just literally 4 posts ago :oldlol:

Make up your mind lol...

[Jacks3]

Where are you getting 20 games of 50+ points in those two seasons from? He scored 50+ in 16 games in 2006 and 2007 combined, not 20 games. A more minor point, he scored 40+ points in 45 games, not 46 games.
Already corrected son.


The dirty little secret of Kobe's scoring spree those years? :
:oldlol:

Why do you insist on spewing the same garbage over and over and over again? :roll:


And your last little jab at Jordan is also bogus, because Jordan also did most of his damage in two seasons:
As did Kobe. Their numbers are very similar, and as peak means more than anything, it's clear that Kobe is every bit the scorer Jordan is. Deal with it.

:pimp:

[Jacks3]

Lol, you just said you admitted you were wrong just literally 4 posts ago :oldlol:

Make up your mind lol...
In terms of basketball opinion? 100% correct son.

[Dave3]

In terms of basketball opinion? 100% correct son.
So your facts (which can be disproven) have been shown to be wrong on pretty much all accounts (except for Kobe having 4 more 50+ point games, which I never disputed, though originally you had him at 8 more than Jordan).

Yet you maintain that your opinion (and an opinion can never actually be proven to be right) is 100% correct.

I just want to make sure I'm getting things straight...

[Jacks3]

I just want to make sure I'm getting things straight...
Nope. You're confused son.

[Dave3]

Nope. You're confused son.
So please enlighten me. I would absolutely love to be shown where I'm wrong.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You're just spewing garbage out the mouth now, pushing your little Kobe agenda....the only person your trying to convince here of anything is yourself. Jordan was a flat out better player, move on.

[GreatGreg]

So please enlighten me. I would absolutely love to be shown where I'm wrong.
Why do you bother? You're giving those morons entertainment. Just stop giving them attention.

[Jacks3]

U don't see the difference between simply posting the wrong numbers/stats (and the difference was very minuscule anyway), and asserting confidence in my general opinions based on my vast basketball knowledge?

Me=#1

:pimp:

[OldSchoolBBall]

Oh, and Kobe led better offenses during his scoring peak than Jordan did.

Clearly, Kobe is better. Jordan stans--U sad?

1987 Bulls: 104.8 ppg/47.3% FG/108.6 ORtg
1988 Bulls: 105.0 ppg/49.0% FG/109.0 ORtg

2006 Lakers: 99.4 ppg/45.3% FG/108.4 ORtg
2007 Lakers: 103.3 ppg/46.6% FG/108.6 ORtg

Jacks3 owned by the facts for, like, the 37th time in this thread. U mad? :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

Jordan was a flat out better player, move on.
You keep telling yourself that. :lol

[Dave3]

Why do you bother? You're giving those morons entertainment. Just stop giving them attention.
LOL. Trust me, he's giving me the entertainment. This is the first time I've had a back and forth with a troll in almost 2 years. I'm using this as study break. Trust me, "hemopoesis" is as boring as it sounds lol.

You'll never find a post of me even addressing anything Kobe vs Jordan or Kobe vs LeBron etc..but can I do? Mans are bored lol.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You keep telling yourself that. :lol

Kobe couldn't even crack the Lakers starting five in the 90's. So yes, as a matter of fact, I will keep telling myself that :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

:oldlol:
lol @ this moron. The Lakers ranked higher. It's a fact.

****ing idiot.

[Jacks3]

Kobe couldn't even crack the Lakers starting five in the 90's. :oldlol:
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Dave3]

U don't see the difference between simply posting the wrong numbers/stats (and the difference was very minuscule anyway), and asserting confidence in my general opinions based on my vast basketball knowledge?

Me=#1

:pimp:
But see, anyone can assert confidence in any opinion even if the opinion is wrong...it's the facts used to back it up that make the opinion justifiable or not. If all your facts are shown to be wrong, then should it not make sense to modify the opinion?

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

Yeah, hilarious but equally pathetic. It took an NBA lockout for him to crack the Lakers starting 5, HAH!

[Jacks3]

LOL. Trust me, he's giving me the entertainment.
:roll: :roll: :roll:

About as entertaining as your dumbass assuming 40+ meant 40 to 49 pts.

:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Jacks3]

Yeah, hilarious but equally pathetic. It took an NBA lockout for him to crack the Lakers starting 5, HAH!
Ok buddy. :lol

[Dave3]

:roll: :roll: :roll:

About as entertaining as your dumbass assuming 40+ meant 40 to 49 pts.

:roll: :roll: :roll:
Ok come on, keep things interesting now. We've been over that point 3 times already. If you don't come up with something new I'm going to have to study.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

You post the same tired garbage over and over and over.....you get shot down over and over and over. Are you an idiot for real?? How many years have you been held back in school?? I can't believe your a real person walking our streets and breathing our air. Choke yourself, clown.

[Dave3]

You post the same tired garbage over and over and over.....you get shot down over and over and over. Are you an idiot for real?? How many years have you been held back in school?? I can't believe your a real person walking our streets and breathing our air. Choke yourself, clown.
Bro, calm down lol. This is an argument over the internet about a game. Hardly anything be upset about. If you don't find stupidity entertaining, then you should really put him on ignore.

[Jacks3]

You post the same tired garbage over and over and over.....
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[RRR3]

You post the same tired garbage over and over and over.....you get shot down over and over and over. Are you an idiot for real?? How many years have you been held back in school?? I can't believe your a real person walking our streets and breathing our air. Choke yourself, clown.
Hey now, no need for that. :no:

[Jacks3]

Ok come on, keep things interesting now. .
Why bother to keep to "keep things interesting" with an idiot like yourself? You think I take your dumbass seriously? You're just idle entertainment. :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

http://img402.imageshack.us/img402/5351/iaintevenmadm.jpg

[Jacks3]

kuniva is real :mad: right now. Calm down son.

[Jacks3]

05-07 Kobe. The G.O.A.T scorer.

33.5 PPG/57% TS
16 50+ point games
45 40+ point games
81 points
62 points in three quarters
5 60+ point games
4 straight 50+ point games
4 straight 45+ point games

To accomplish all that in just two seasons.

Just imagine what he would have done if he chucked his entire career like Jordan?

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Dave3]

Why bother to keep to "keep things interesting" with an idiot like yourself? You think I take your dumbass seriously? You're just idle entertainment. :oldlol:
If I'm entertainment, wouldn't you want to keep things interesting so you can be entertained? :oldlol: :oldlol:

[Jacks3]

Some other feats:

9 straight 40+ point games
13 straight 35+ point games
6 different games where he had 50+ points through 3 quarters
30+ pts in a quarter three different times

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[tontoz]

Originally Posted by Jacks3
.

And of course, Kobe's peak scoring season> MJ's.




So how much longer do i have to wait to hear about the year Kobe scored more than 37 ppg? :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

In 2005-2006, 11 of the top 20 scorers in the league posted career-high point averages. LOL! 35.4 ppg during a zero tolerance handchecking institution, with EVERYONE benefiting from it. OBVIOUSLY, Kobe's mark seems a little tainted don't you think?

[Jacks3]

If I'm entertainment, wouldn't you want to keep things interesting so you can be entertained? :oldlol: :oldlol:
No. You do all the work for me. I just sit back as your dumbass continues to amuse me. :oldlol:

****ing *******. :oldlol:

[RRR3]

This thread! :roll:
http://i35.tinypic.com/ogxjwk.jpg
http://dc399.4shared.com/img/4OSkO-oG/s7/eating_popcorn.gif

[Dave3]

No. You do all the work for me. I just sit back as your dumbass continues to amuse me. :oldlol:

****ing *******. :oldlol:
It's amusing to you to be proven wrong? That's kind of weird...

[Dave3]

This thread! :roll:
http://i35.tinypic.com/ogxjwk.jpg
http://dc399.4shared.com/img/4OSkO-oG/s7/eating_popcorn.gif
I know! But now I need to study lol :(

Was fun while it lasted though, proved Jacks3 wrong pretty quickly.

BTW, in that other thread, you were saying you'd take Tmac over prime Kobe. I can't agree there. We can have that debate some other time, but I think you tend to underrate Kobe.

[Jacks3]

Kobe 2006:

35.4 PPG/56% TS
27 40+ point games
6 50+ point games
2,800+ points
81 points
62 points in three quarters
4 straight 45+ point games
Averaged 40+ PPG in a month...twice.

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Jacks3]

Was fun while it lasted though, proved Jacks3 wrong pretty quickly.


Holy crap. This kid is freaking delusional. :oldlol:

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Michael Jordan at North Carolina:

101 games, 3,107 total minutes played.

Kobe in his first 2 years in the NBA:

150 games, 3,159 minutes played.......per minute, I'd say wear-and-tear wise, that's about a wash. They both were also young and could recover quickly. Jordan played his first NBA game at 20 years old.....so I'd say their "wear-and-tear" is pretty identical at that stage. Kobe fanbois?

[Dave3]

Just stop this nonsense everybody knows, Kobe > Jordan.
:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Lower ppg >> higher ppg
lower TS% >> higher TS%
lower rebounds/game >> higher rebounds/game
lower assists/game >> higher rebounds/game
1 MVP >>>>> 5 MVP's
2 finals MVP >>> 6 FMVPs
5 rings >> 6 rings

Anyone who disagrees with you is a complete moron!

[eliteballer]

Michael Jordan at North Carolina:

101 games, 3,107 total minutes played.

Kobe in his first 2 years in the NBA:

150 games, 3,159 minutes played.......per minute, I'd say wear-and-tear wise, that's about a wash. They both were also young and could recover quickly. Jordan played his first NBA game at 20 years old.....so I'd say their "wear-and-tear" is pretty identical at that stage. Kobe fanbois?

Uhhhhhh Jordan played 3 years at North Carolina and he played his first NBA game at 21 and turned 22 midway through his rookie year. Not to mention missed almost 3 years worth of games from 86, and 94-95. Educate yourself before you talk like an ISHiot.

[az00m]

kobe sucks and got carried by shaq. He isn't a better scorer and shoots 42% in the finals.

kobe sux

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

Uhhhhhh Jordan played 3 years at North Carolina and he played his first NBA game at 21 and turned 22 midway through his rookie year. Not to mention missed almost 3 years worth of games from 86, and 94-95. Educate yourself before you talk like an ISHiot.

I meant 21. The minutes per game are still relevant however. Kobe missed a bulk of the 99 season, and has had AT LEAST four years where he's missed 15+ games.

Educate your stupid ass before trying to correct me, fanboi.

[eliteballer]

You forget, ISHiot. Kobe has played far deeper into the playoffs from an early age than Jordan did, adding minutes and cutting short offseason recovery time.

[andgar923]

You forget, ISHiot. Kobe has played far deeper into the playoffs from an early age than Jordan did, adding minutes and cutting short offseason recovery time.

you forget that Mj had to carry a team and play much physically tough defense, in an era where medicine and training weren't as advanced, while Kobe was carried by Shaq for about 80% of his career, saw less physically demanding defense, had the privilege of playing with better medicine/conditioning which only lengthened his career and helped him condition better and faster.

[eliteballer]

Jordan played tougher D?:lol Not only do players put more effort on D with greater scouting and more sophisticated schemes, but they carry much more muscle mass.

[SuperPippen]

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Lower ppg >> higher ppg
lower TS% >> higher TS%
lower rebounds/game >> higher rebounds/game
lower assists/game >> higher rebounds/game
1 MVP >>>>> 5 MVP's
2 finals MVP >>> 6 FMVPs
5 rings >> 6 rings

Anyone who disagrees with you is a complete moron!

:bowdown:

If Rene says it, it must be true.

[Dave3]

:bowdown:

If Rene says it, it must be true.
Who's Rene?

[tontoz]

Jordan played tougher D?:lol Not only do players put more effort on D with greater scouting and more sophisticated schemes, but they carry much more muscle mass.

Here's 3 guys from the Knicks, the Bulls main rival in the East after they put the Pistons away.


http://thatsenuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Charles-Oakley-Knicks.jpg

http://3.bp.blogspot.com/__vhFOC88muo/SX5Ef2ObzII/AAAAAAAAAFs/ckdsZA-kEZA/s1600/xavier+mcdaniel+pic.jpg

http://www.theknicksblog.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/amason_300_080412.jpg

[eliteballer]

Why dont you post his numbers against the Knicks in the 92 and 93 playoffs:D

[Leviathon1121]

Jordan played tougher D?:lol Not only do players put more effort on D with greater scouting and more sophisticated schemes, but they carry much more muscle mass.

And had no answer for an ancient Jason Kidd, a midget SG in Terry, a midget backup point guard in JJ, and a German. Amazing defense this era is boasting buddy!

[tontoz]

Why dont you post his numbers against the Knicks in the 92 and 93 playoffs:D


I'll do that as soon as you find 3 rotation players on any current team that are as muscular as those 3.

You were the one who said players are much more muscular today so it shouldn't be hard to do.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Why dont you post his numbers against the Knicks in the 92 and 93 playoffs:D

'92 series: 31 pts/6 reb/4 ast/48% FG/54% TS

'93 series: 32 pts/6 reb/7 ast/40% FG/52% TS

Poor shooting from the field for MJ in the '93 series, but he did have a badly sprained wrist for at least a portion of that series; it's also important to note that Kobe has had four entire postseasons with a lower TS% than Jordan had in this one series. :oldlol: He also dominated this series with his all-around game and especially defensively, doing whatever was needed to win when his shot wasn't falling. Kobe stans are also kidding themselves if they think Kobe has ever faced a defense as good and physical as the '93 Knicks when he was out from under Shaq's umbrella and could actually be double-teamed and game-planned for.

[Jacks3]

Kobe got plenty of doubles from 01-04. Do you Jordan stans even watch the games? And the 08 Celtics are easily better defensively than any defense Jordan faced.

[Jacks3]

vs 1993 NYK 52.2 TS%
vs 1997 Heat 47.5 TS%
vs 1996 Sonics 53.8 TS%
vs 1997 Hawks 50.6 TS%
vs 1996 NYK 53.4 TS%
vs 1992 NYK 53.9 TS%

Jordan vs top defenses. Luckily for him, however, he didn't face great defenses as often as Kobe did. In fact, no superstar in history has played elite defenses as often as Bryant.

http://www.backpicks.com/2011/06/29/who-played-the-hardest-defenses-adjusting-playoff-stats-by-competition-part-i/

[kaiiu]

Kobe the GOAT perimeter scorer. I give MJ his props doe. He is the 2nd best....distant 2nd

[Nevaeh]

Kobe the GOAT perimeter scorer. I give MJ his props doe. He is the 2nd best....distant 2nd

Dammmmnnn, Kobe Stans be gunning for MJ to be fallin out that top spot this summah foreal doe. Where Yao Ming Foot be at wit some more of them formulas to show MGAY be weak as hell? Yall Stans be needin real leadership for dis lockout and sh!t. :roll: :roll: :roll:

[LebronairJAMES]

And had no answer for an ancient Jason Kidd, a midget SG in Terry, a midget backup point guard in JJ, and a German. Amazing defense this era is boasting buddy!
http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/childplease.png

[LebronairJAMES]

Dammmmnnn, Kobe Stans be gunning for MJ to be fallin out that top spot this summah foreal doe. Where Yao Ming Foot be at wit some more of them formulas to show MGAY be weak as hell? Yall Stans be needin real leadership for dis lockout and sh!t. :roll: :roll: :roll:
http://forums.projectcovo.com/images/smilies/bron.gif

[DuMa]

http://thatsenuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Charles-Oakley-Knicks.jpg

just wanna say... damn yo. this a ballin haircut. we need more of this shti

[EricForman]

http://thatsenuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Charles-Oakley-Knicks.jpg

just wanna say... damn yo. this a ballin haircut. we need more of this shti


http://thatsenuff.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/Charles-Oakley-Knicks.jpg

[OmniStrife]

http://i.imgur.com/HzVH0.jpg