Is Sabonis overrated?

[millwad]

Lithuanian fans and some eastern european fans seem to think that he is one of the absolute greatest centers and players of all-time, that he is in the same class like Wilt, Russell Jabbar, Moses Malone, Hakeem etc..

Sabonis supporters will give you plenty of quotes and that "he killed David Robinson" which he didn't and that he abused every team in Europe but it's even debatable if he even was the best player in Europe at that time, guys like Petrovic and Galis killed their competition as well.

Then the talk about that he "killed" college-version of David Robinson, some guys saw a video of some blocks and dunks Sabonis had against Robinson and suddenly just because of that video "Robinson got killed"...

This is nothing but a big misconception, David Robinson did NOT get killed or even outplayed by Sabonis in the '86 WC or the '88 Olympics. Both games were really close and it was a very close match-up, the so called domination is nothing but a misconception.

In the '86 WC Robinson had 20 points, 7 rebounds, 4 blocks against Sabonis and Sabonis in the same game had 16 points, 13 rebounds and 4 blocks. I've seen the game as well and no, Sabonis didn't kill anyone..

In the '88 Olympics Robinson had 19 points, 12 rebounds, 2 steals and 2 blocks vs Sabonis who had 13 points, 13 rebounds, 2 assists, 1 steal and one block. And yes, I know Sabonis just came back from an injury but people claim that he killed Robinson in that game as well. In fact, Sabonis never dominated Robinson.

I know it's a small sample of games to judge Sabonis on but Sabonis gets crazy much cred for those two games than what he deserves. And it's a fact that Sabonis was much closer to his prime during those two international tournaments than what Robinson was and still he didn't outplay him.

So what do you think?

[boozehound]

nope. not overrated at all. If anything he is prob massively underrated by most while being slightly overrated by a small handful. dont bother with the stats, post some of his prime footage. dude is GOAT modern era center.

[GOBB]

Most here never saw Saboni play at all. Some who did remember him from his Portland days. Few know about his career prior to that. I never saw the guy play in his prime. Heard alot about him during that time but never saw footage. Youtube wasnt around when I was most peoples age on this site.

Never cared to research and read up on the legend of Sabonis either. I cant say if he was overrated or underrated.

[nbacardDOTnet]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189860

[millwad]

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=189860

"Arvydas Sabonis owning David Robinson":facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

I mean, seeing the "real" Sabonis is according to his biggest fans checking him out before his injury seeing his '86 performance and I have an old recording on VHS from the game everyone talks about and he didn't dominate Robinson at all, not even close.

Personally I feel that all I see from his fans are quotes rather than actual plays or accomplishments.

[Clutch]

Petrovic > Sabonis

[millwad]

nope. not overrated at all. If anything he is prob massively underrated by most while being slightly overrated by a small handful. dont bother with the stats, post some of his prime footage. dude is GOAT modern era center.

Prime footage is only misleading, it's the mixtapes of some of his games a la the one against Robinson that started a whole misconception that he dominated Robinson and I saw the game, he didn't dominate Robinson.

Any elite-player can look like a monster in highlight-videos..

[millwad]

Petrovic > Sabonis

I totally agree.

[Sakkreth]

Petrovic > Sabonis

You are from croatia.

To easy.

[millwad]

You are from croatia.

To easy.

I'm not from Croatia and I agree.

[Clutch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mh4xSDNKPCI

Croatian commentator had many "nice" things to say about Sabonis after this punch.
Let me translate it:
-Enemy of the real sport
-Best center in Europe but rude and unsportsmanlike player
-Can hardly play a game without being involved in an altercation
...

[pauk]

Petrovic > Sabonis

this

Odakle si iz Hrvatske? Crnogorac ovde. :D

[97 bulls]

Prime footage is only misleading, it's the mixtapes of some of his games a la the one against Robinson that started a whole misconception that he dominated Robinson and I saw the game, he didn't dominate Robinson.

Any elite-player can look like a monster in highlight-videos..
Great point. I can make a highlight mix of michael olowakandi and you'd think he's the next wilt. You can't put much stock in mix tapes.

I honestly don't think he should be in the hall of fame. But now that he is, pandoras boox has been opened. And I wonder.... while I'm not well versed on european basketball, why is kukoc not as highly regarded as petrovic and galis? He's accomplished more than they did overseas, as well as in the nba.

[Nero Tulip]

He is underrated by a majority of NBA fans, and massively overrated by a minority of American fans who have never seen him play when he wasn't injured but heard that he was basically God.

[Clutch]

this

Odakle si iz Hrvatske? Crnogorac ovde. :D
Dalmatia.

[All Net]

Prime sabs was a beast so no

[Nick Young]

nope. not overrated at all. If anything he is prob massively underrated by most while being slightly overrated by a small handful. dont bother with the stats, post some of his prime footage. dude is GOAT modern era center.

:rolleyes:
over Shaq?:facepalm

[madmax]

Prime Sabonis was taller, more skilled and tougher version of Pau Gasol...you can draw your own conclusions, but he would be the best center in NBA if he played today

[Nick Young]

Prime Sabonis was taller, more skilled and tougher version of Pau Gasol...you can draw your own conclusions, but he would be the best center in NBA if he played today
he whined too much and was too mentally weak and from what I saw in his Portland days he was not clutch and prone to giving up when things got hard.

[madmax]

he whined too much and was too mentally weak and from what I saw in his Portland days he was not clutch and prone to giving up when things got hard.

I'm not saying he was perfect and yes, he indeed wasn't mentally the toughest guy out there - he cost his Euro team Euroleague title in the 80's and he could be easily rattled by other players. But game wise he was the most skilled all-arround center of all time and dominated Euroleague at the age of 40 with no knees or any athletic ability. So yeah, he was very good

[Kblaze8855]

I think the player he was his first few years in Portland is very underrated. There is a lot of discussion of how good he could have been and not enough about how good he actually was.

[boozehound]

:rolleyes:
over Shaq?:facepalm
the last sentence was intentionally over the top.

I will say that, from what I saw (obv very little) of his prime, he has a skillset unlike any other 7 footer. Check the block on d. rob about 30 secs in in this vid http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwuNWNSgeQ unbelievable recovery and quickness to stay with it

dude was incredible and played with a much higher motor than d rob in those games.

I do agree with kblaze that his late nba career is overlooked. he was a top (5?) center in the league as a 30+ yr old with no knees. During a period with some great centers still in their prime.

[alwaysunny]

Prime Sabonis was taller, more skilled and tougher version of Pau Gasol...you can draw your own conclusions, but he would be the best center in NBA if he played today

Would you pick him over Dwight?

[boozehound]

Great point. I can make a highlight mix of michael olowakandi and you'd think he's the next wilt. You can't put much stock in mix tapes.

I honestly don't think he should be in the hall of fame. But now that he is, pandoras boox has been opened. And I wonder.... while I'm not well versed on european basketball, why is kukoc not as highly regarded as petrovic and galis? He's accomplished more than they did overseas, as well as in the nba.
the difference is that you have an entire well documented nba career of something like 500 games to make that mix. the mixes of sabas are almost all of individual games.

[boozehound]

Would you pick him over Dwight?
yes, without a doubt (assuming some hypothetical prime). would you take d rob over dwight? I would.

[twintowers]

Dalmatia.

How can you compare Drazen with Sabonis two totally different positions that cannot be more not the same, Sabonis with his size had a killer shot in his prime he shot 3's with ease, passed the ball like a playmaker, my dad brought me footages of him on VHS cassetes from the 80's and saw both Drazen and him play (which you certainly didn't, your age tops 18) and said Sabonis was probably best center ever in europe, yet you say Drazen who without the doubt was the best in europe at his position but comparing those two guys is not possible...Nob

[alenleomessi]

we had a basketball talk in history today and the teacher said sabonis is the best center he ever saw
he rofled when i told him jonas valanciunas is supposed to be the next sabonis
everyone in class was wtf are these guys talking
cant wait for history tomorrow

back on topic i obviously didnt watched him, but from the footage ive seen, info, stats and people that actually watched him, seems like 90% of them think he is the goat european, of course the 10% who dont are greeks and croatians

[nbacardDOTnet]

we had a basketball talk in history today and the teacher said sabonis is the best center he ever saw
he rofled when i told him jonas valanciunas is supposed to be the next saboniseveryone in class was wtf are these guys talking
cant wait for history tomorrow

back on topic i obviously didnt watched him, but from the footage ive seen, info, stats and people that actually watched him, seems like 90% of them think he is the goat european, of course the 10% who dont are greeks and croatians

:oldlol:

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showpost.php?p=4682622&postcount=53

[Psileas]

Sabonis supporters will give you plenty of quotes and that "he killed David Robinson" which he didn't and that he abused every team in Europe but it's even debatable if he even was the best player in Europe at that time, guys like Petrovic and Galis killed their competition as well.

This is what I've been saying, as well. A center who would rank up there with the Wilts, Kareems, Hakeems, etc, would have blown his other European competitors out of the water. Yet, the "Sabonis vs Petrovic" debate is among the hottest European classics, and I don't see anyone rank Petrovic up there with Jordan and Magic.

[chains5000]

He was great, too bad he got to the NBA too late and with a broken body. His game was really complete and he had a huge body too, you can't ask more from a center.

[D.J.]

How can he be overrated? About half the posters here never saw him live and probably 75%+ don't remember him arriving in the NBA at 31. I remember him being in Europe, I remember him debuting in '95, and remember him playing his last game in '03. Not many here were around for all that. A prime Sabonis was basically Tim Duncan with a three point shot.

[chains5000]

How can he be overrated? About half the posters here never saw him live and probably 75%+ don't remember him arriving in the NBA at 31. I remember him being in Europe, I remember him debuting in '95, and remember him playing his last game in '03. Not many here were around for all that. A prime Sabonis was basically Tim Duncan with a three point shot and a good free throw percentage.
Added some more.

[alenleomessi]

isnt he a better passer than duncan too?

[madmax]

isnt he a better passer than duncan too?

a better passer, shooter and and of course 5 inches taller on top of all things:lol

[millwad]

Prime sabs was a beast so no

Between what years do you consider that Sabas was in his prime?

Actually, all of you guys, what years do you think Sabas was in his absolute prime?

[D.J.]

Between what years do you consider that Sabas was in his prime?

Actually, all of you guys, what years do you think Sabas was in his absolute prime?


His prime was the late 80s-early 90s, when he was still in Europe. Figure around '88-'91.


Against Admiral in '86- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwuNWNSgeQ

A clip from '84- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIFFTjjFw-g

'95- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajy1Qv3KZV4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frSDdPotmnw

[ZenMaster]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIFFTjjFw-g&list=FLkfVrQ1gEkhP7Den7asDZuw&index=10

[millwad]

His prime was the late 80s-early 90s, when he was still in Europe. Figure around '88-'91.

Interesting, in '88 he played college-version of Drob again and I consider Drob winning that match-up even though his team lost.

And other than winning the olympics his career highlights and awards doesn't show him making any great noise those years. Other than the Olympics I didn't see him play between those years since my father didn't record any.

But an interesting fact is that he didn't get any Mr. Europa award those years for being the player of the year, Marčiulionis, Divac and Kukoc got it those years.

And he got the Euroscar award only once during those year you mentioned and the rest of the years you considered to be Sabas in his prime he got beat by Petrovic and Kukoc. That makes me question Sabas true greatness..



Against Admiral in '86- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0mwuNWNSgeQ

I've seen the the full game, that video doesn't do any justice to David Robinson because college-version of Robinson even outscored Sabas in that game and he was just as good.

A clip from '84- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jIFFTjjFw-g

'95- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ajy1Qv3KZV4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=frSDdPotmnw


Thanks for the rest of the clips, but it wasn't the videos I was out after since I've seen the guy play since my dad had him as his favourite player and he recorded many of his games.

[Euroleague]

Best European league players of the 80s..........

1. Nick Galis

2. Oscar Schmidt

3. Drazen Petrovic

4. Sarunas Marciolonis

5. Arvydas Sabonis

6. Dino Meneghin

Sabonis/Marciolonis is debatable. You could go either way with them in the rating. But Sabonis was never the best player in Europe during the 80s as NBA fans all claim he was.

It was not until the 90s that he was possibly the best player in Europe, along with Kukoc.

So, much of the stories that NBA fans talk about are exaggerated, as all NBA fans claim he was "the best player in Europe during the 80s."

[Euroleague]

Great point. I can make a highlight mix of michael olowakandi and you'd think he's the next wilt. You can't put much stock in mix tapes.

I honestly don't think he should be in the hall of fame. But now that he is, pandoras boox has been opened. And I wonder.... while I'm not well versed on european basketball, why is kukoc not as highly regarded as petrovic and galis? He's accomplished more than they did overseas, as well as in the nba.

Kukoc was not as good as Petrovic and Galis. Perhaps that has something to do with it.

[Euroleague]

Prime Sabonis was taller, more skilled and tougher version of Pau Gasol...you can draw your own conclusions, but he would be the best center in NBA if he played today

I don't think Pau Gasol is a good comparison. A better comparison would be someone like Divac, except definitely better.

[Euroleague]

Would you pick him over Dwight?

What the hell? Prime Sabonis was much better all around as a player than Howard is.

[Euroleague]

we had a basketball talk in history today and the teacher said sabonis is the best center he ever saw
he rofled when i told him jonas valanciunas is supposed to be the next sabonis
everyone in class was wtf are these guys talking
cant wait for history tomorrow

back on topic i obviously didnt watched him, but from the footage ive seen, info, stats and people that actually watched him, seems like 90% of them think he is the goat european, of course the 10% who dont are greeks and croatians

Galis and Petrovic are considered the best European players of all time by the majority of people in Europe.

[BlackJoker23]

Galis and Petrovic are considered the best European players of all time by the majority of people in Europe.
you dont live in europe *******. off yourself asap

[Euroleague]

This is what I've been saying, as well. A center who would rank up there with the Wilts, Kareems, Hakeems, etc, would have blown his other European competitors out of the water. Yet, the "Sabonis vs Petrovic" debate is among the hottest European classics, and I don't see anyone rank Petrovic up there with Jordan and Magic.

Charles Barkley and Kenny Smith said that Petrovic was better than even Olajuwon was. Personally I disagree with them.

But they both argued and said Drazen was the best international player they saw in the NBA - better than Hakeem.

NBA fans have no clue how good Drazen and Galis really were.

[Euroleague]

How can he be overrated? About half the posters here never saw him live and probably 75%+ don't remember him arriving in the NBA at 31. I remember him being in Europe, I remember him debuting in '95, and remember him playing his last game in '03. Not many here were around for all that. A prime Sabonis was basically Tim Duncan with a three point shot.

I think Sabonis was a much better passer and shooter than Duncan.

[Euroleague]

Interesting, in '88 he played college-version of Drob again and I consider Drob winning that match-up even though his team lost.

And other than winning the olympics his career highlights and awards doesn't show him making any great noise those years. Other than the Olympics I didn't see him play between those years since my father didn't record any.

But an interesting fact is that he didn't get any Mr. Europa award those years for being the player of the year, Marčiulionis, Divac and Kukoc got it those years.

And he got the Euroscar award only once during those year you mentioned and the rest of the years you considered to be Sabas in his prime he got beat by Petrovic and Kukoc. That makes me question Sabas true greatness..




Thanks for the rest of the clips, but it wasn't the videos I was out after since I've seen the guy play since my dad had him as his favourite player and he recorded many of his games.

AGAIN with this bull shit?

Those awards are from magazines. How many times does this have to be explained? Those are not real awards idiot.

I think I need to send a complaint to Wikipedia about this.

[madmax]

I don't think Pau Gasol is a good comparison. A better comparison would be someone like Divac, except definitely better.

no, Pau is a perfect comparison since they both are very versatile big men with nice array of offensive moves ( either in the low post or facing the basket). And young Sabonis definitely played much more like Pau than Divac, who is much slower and more traditional center

[Droid101]

AGAIN with this bull shit?

Those awards are from magazines. How many times does this have to be explained? Those are not real awards idiot.

I think I need to send a complaint to Wikipedia about this.
What were the official awards called?

If there weren't any, then these would be de-facto official.

So you can quit your bitching.

[Euroleague]

no, Pau is a perfect comparison since they both are very versatile big men with nice array of offensive moves ( either in the low post or facing the basket). And young Sabonis definitely played much more like Pau than Divac, who is much slower and more traditional center

I think Divac is much closer comparison. Much better shooter than Pau. 3 point range. Much better passer than Pau.

Being able to play the Soviet formation point center offense, which is how they were developed.

Flex offense, triangle offense, etc. designed point centers, versus Pau who plays as a power forward in such a system.

Sabonis was better than Divac because he was bigger, better at defense, better at rebounding than Divac. But that is a much better comparison than Pau.

Pau Gasol is much more of a face up high post player and he is not that good at defense or passing.

[Euroleague]

What were the official awards called?

If there weren't any, then these would be de-facto official.

So you can quit your bitching.

You are an idiot.

Magazines from Italy with 2,000 circulation is not a "de-facto" award.

My god some people are so retarded.

[Smoke117]

You are overrated if David Robinson out plays you? He put 16/10 up at 33 on two shitty knees with about a quarter of the athleticism he possessed in his prime...I'm pretty sure he would have been a perennial all star if he had managed to come to the NBA in his prime. I watched him play a lot on the Blazers late 90s/early 00s and there was a great player in that aged broken body.

[millwad]

Charles Barkley and Kenny Smith said that Petrovic was better than even Olajuwon was. Personally I disagree with them.

But they both argued and said Drazen was the best international player they saw in the NBA - better than Hakeem.

NBA fans have no clue how good Drazen and Galis really were.

Galis was an american basketball product, thank the US.

And I've asked you before to give us some kind of source to the quote you are referring to..

[millwad]

You are overrated if David Robinson out plays you? He put 16/10 up at 33 on two shitty knees with about a quarter of the athleticism he possessed in his prime...I'm pretty sure he would have been a perennial all star if he had managed to come to the NBA in his prime. I watched him play a lot on the Blazers late 90s/early 00s and there was a great player in that aged broken body.

You obviously didn't get my point. There's a huge misconception going on about college-version of David Robinson getting absolutely crushed by Sabonis in the the '86 WC and the '88 Olympics. The so called domination by Sabonis never took part against DROB and to this day Sabonis still gets alot of credit for doing something he never did..

[Teanett]

The so called domination by Sabonis never took part against DROB and to this day Sabonis still gets alot of credit for doing something he never did..

so who was the guy playing center for the usa in '88?
alton lister???

[Droid101]

Galis was an american basketball product, thank the US.

And I've asked you before to give us some kind of source to the quote you are referring to..
Yet another case for an American going overseas and dominating. He's like a pre-Anthony Parker!

[millwad]

AGAIN with this bull shit?

Those awards are from magazines. How many times does this have to be explained? Those are not real awards idiot.

I think I need to send a complaint to Wikipedia about this.

Are they fake-awards? You are just butthurt because Galis barely won them..

[Smoke117]

You obviously didn't get my point. There's a huge misconception going on about college-version of David Robinson getting absolutely crushed by Sabonis in the the '86 WC and the '88 Olympics. The so called domination by Sabonis never took part against DROB and to this day Sabonis still gets alot of credit for doing something he never did..

Who cares? How many people even discuss or even think about this. Your point is moot because frankly nobody gives a crap. You are bringing something up that has you all hot and bothered and maybe 2% of basketball fans along with you. Besides that, Robinson was the best rookie since Kareem Adbul Jabbar since and up to this point...so he was no cupcake in college.

[millwad]

Who cares? How many people even discuss or even think about this. Your point is moot because frankly nobody gives a crap. You are bringing something up that has you all hot and bothered and maybe 2% of basketball fans along with you. Besides that, Robinson was the best rookie since Kareem Adbul Jabbar since and up to this point...so he was no cupcake in college.

Obviously you do care since you're here..
And no, he wasn't the best rookie since Jabbar..

[nbacardDOTnet]

Would you pick him over Dwight?



What the hell? Prime Sabonis was much better all around as a player than Howard is.

yap, can't be compared with and not even close.

[Euroleague]

Galis was an american basketball product, thank the US.

And I've asked you before to give us some kind of source to the quote you are referring to..

Galis was an American product that scored 50 on Jordan and refused to ever accept all the contracts the Celtics offered to him over the years because he did not want to play in the lower level NBA.

[Euroleague]

Yet another case for an American going overseas and dominating. He's like a pre-Anthony Parker!

Kind of like Dirk, a blond-haired white Euro going to NBA and dominating all the Afro African "American" NBA players.

[Euroleague]

Are they fake-awards? You are just butthurt because Galis barely won them..

Yes, they are fake awards idiot. That is exactly what they are.

[millwad]

Yes, they are fake awards idiot. That is exactly what they are.


I don't like do this but this is the only crap you're worth.. And by the way, how is Arkansas?

http://image.wetpaint.com/image/1/3ytzdCRgLolhz8ObuYzaLw581260/GW270H15930

[magnax1]

First off, this isn't a thread worth *******ing (they blocked the word *******????) This is the only time I thought it was worth saying that.
Secondly, he's not really over rated since by most he just isn't "rated" at all. Shaqattack posted a link to some of his games in Europe and the olympics a while ago (I lost the link) and people saying he dominated Robinson, just aren't really telling the whole story. To say he outplayed him is probably fair, but Robinson played alright for portions of the game too, but you have to remember he wasn't pro yet anyway. From the games I watched, I would say he's on par offensively with the best centers ever. Somewhere in between Robinson and Hakeem, though he doesn't need the ball all the time and is as good of a passer as any big so that makes him much more valuable to me. However, defensively I wouldn't say he looked like he was as good as those guys. The European style of play, with all the zone and the bigger lane makes it hard to have a fair comparison though.

[boozehound]

You obviously didn't get my point. There's a huge misconception going on about college-version of David Robinson getting absolutely crushed by Sabonis in the the '86 WC and the '88 Olympics. The so called domination by Sabonis never took part against DROB and to this day Sabonis still gets alot of credit for doing something he never did..
you make is sound like sabas was some 27 yr old savvy vet. He is something like 8 months older than D rob (they wouldve been the same grade in the US). Besides, a prime sabas, much like a prime walton, was never seen due to injury. Euroleague makes some good points about the soviet style in the 80s/90s.

[boozehound]

that is super weak that you loungecatted your own thread. Euroleague is an obstinate and foolish ****wad, but you are better than that. Dont let him troll you. Besides, this is the first thread in which one out of three EL posts are actually contributing to discussion.

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Look who prime Sabonis was playing against. Hell yes that muthaf**ka is overrated. People act like he is Hakeem or something. Give me a break. He was a really good player. Good skills but far from the top level guys even at his best.

[millwad]

First off, this isn't a thread worth *******ing (they blocked the word *******????) This is the only time I thought it was worth saying that.
Secondly, he's not really over rated since by most he just isn't "rated" at all. Shaqattack posted a link to some of his games in Europe and the olympics a while ago (I lost the link) and people saying he dominated Robinson, just aren't really telling the whole story. To say he outplayed him is probably fair, but Robinson played alright for portions of the game too, but you have to remember he wasn't pro yet anyway. From the games I watched, I would say he's on par offensively with the best centers ever. Somewhere in between Robinson and Hakeem, though he doesn't need the ball all the time and is as good of a passer as any big so that makes him much more valuable to me. However, defensively I wouldn't say he looked like he was as good as those guys. The European style of play, with all the zone and the bigger lane makes it hard to have a fair comparison though.

No, he didn't outplay Robinson at all, I have seen the games and I think it's a huge misconception and I'm not even a statguy but even the stats will tell you that Sabonis didn't outplay Robinson..

Regarding his skills, I don't consider him to be as gifted as Hakeem offensively but he was a good scorer and he was a great passer. He had a problem with his whining though, he always let people get in his head and was always in altercations on court.

Personally I think he was very gifted but I think he gets too much credit.

[millwad]

you make is sound like sabas was some 27 yr old savvy vet. He is something like 8 months older than D rob (they wouldve been the same grade in the US). Besides, a prime sabas, much like a prime walton, was never seen due to injury. Euroleague makes some good points about the soviet style in the 80s/90s.

That is what I'm saying, since we didn't see prime Sabas we can't give him credit for it..

And I think he was a great center but I wouldn't but him on pair with the greatest of them like Shaq, Hakeem and Jabbar..

Sabas wasn't even clearly the best player in Europe.

[rodman91]

If you look at basketball not just as NBA, he was one of the best ever

If you look at early years vs USA, he was quite dominating (stats doesn't mean everything) There is couple of dunks,blocks over NBA all time great Robinson.

If you look at just NBA, hell no, he wasn't one of the best but he was good player.

If you look at just NBA,and think what if he could use his legs like regular player, then he could be all time great center in NBA.

7'3 and almost 300 pounds.Great fundamentals,courtvision,shooting,passing skills.Potentially one of the best centers.But potentially.

If he could play in NBA young & healty, he could be somewhere between at least Ewing to Jabbar.

[Niquesports]

How can he be overrated? About half the posters here never saw him live and probably 75%+ don't remember him arriving in the NBA at 31. I remember him being in Europe, I remember him debuting in '95, and remember him playing his last game in '03. Not many here were around for all that. A prime Sabonis was basically Tim Duncan with a three point shot.


This is why MOST feel he is overrated. He became a Legend in a Euro league that was no where near it is today. Tim Duncan became a legend playing against tother legends. Most would say the Euro league in the mid 80's wasnt better than the NCAA.

The look at a mid 80's team
C Pat Ewing
Ralph Sampson
Hakeem
G Jordan
Clyde
Chris Mullin
Pearl Washington
F
Lenny Bias
Worthy
Sam Perkins

This team would kill any Euro team in the 80's

[Niquesports]

If you look at basketball not just as NBA, he was one of the best ever

If you look at early years vs USA, he was quite dominating (stats doesn't mean everything) There is couple of dunks,blocks over NBA all time great Robinson.

If you look at just NBA, hell no, he wasn't one of the best but he was good player.

If you look at just NBA,and think what if he could use his legs like regular player, then he could be all time great center in NBA.

7'3 and almost 300 pounds.Great fundamentals,courtvision,shooting,passing skills.Potentially one of the best centers.But potentially.

If he could play in NBA young & healty, he could be somewhere between at least Ewing to Jabbar.


One thing about Sabonis fans that they miss. I dont care how bad your needs are it doesnt effect your toughness. Unseld,Reed,Walton all had major injuries but when on the floor they were Pit Bulls. Sabonis was like that little dog that is always barking but never leaves the porch.

[Niquesports]

you make is sound like sabas was some 27 yr old savvy vet. He is something like 8 months older than D rob (they wouldve been the same grade in the US). Besides, a prime sabas, much like a prime walton, was never seen due to injury. Euroleague makes some good points about the soviet style in the 80s/90s.
We saw a prime Walton play at an All Time great level in THE NBA !!!!!!!! Never saw Sabonis do this.

[Niquesports]

I think Sabonis was a much better passer and shooter than Duncan.


When ever you say a 7'3 300 lb player you have lost. I want my big man on the block banging like "ALL" the others did. Not being a 7'3 300lb Shooting Guard. Shows lack of HEART

[Niquesports]

Who cares? How many people even discuss or even think about this. Your point is moot because frankly nobody gives a crap. You are bringing something up that has you all hot and bothered and maybe 2% of basketball fans along with you. Besides that, Robinson was the best rookie since Kareem Adbul Jabbar since and up to this point...so he was no cupcake in college.
As a rookie he wasn't better than Ralph Sampson Pat Ewing hakeem. IF you take into account he was in the Navy for 2 years he wasnt better than Bill Walton in his 3rd year out of college.Just to name a few.