Micheal Jordan in todays league

[juju151111]

How do you think he will do in todays league. He got to face some of the new school in 01-03 avging 21ppg 43%. Respectable for a knee server ridden 38-40 year old.

Some of his performances against new era guys.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMU8fSwu5yo Destroys Richard Jefferson,Prime Martin,prime Kidd(Same Kidd who guards Kobe,Lebrick, and Wade today). You could see he missed a lot of gimme layups this gm because of no elevation. He used just pumpfakes,jabsteps, jumpshots etc..... He also had 3 stls. He avging 1.5 stls still at that age.

MJ vs Dirk(Future nba champ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f3IQKeenIKw

MJ vs Prime Artest http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jMU8fSwu5yo

MJ vs Marion(MJ shitted on this guy the most has a wizards hitting like 3 buzzerbeaters on him. His 6'7 height and long arms didn't affect MJ. This guy guards lebrick James with success for some reason) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CKKhY4BGhNM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fp__LVQvC7M

[OldSchoolBBall]

If by "today's league, you mean the 2006-2011 NBA, then I see 32/6/6/2.5+/1+/49% FG/58% TS at a bare minimum.

A few seasons of 33+/6.5/6+/2.5+/1+/50+% FG/59%+ TS. A peak season or two of 35.0-36.0 ppg/6.5 reb/4.5-5.0 ast/2.5+ stl/1 blk/47-48% FG/56-57% TS.

A 24-29 year old Jordan would have decimated the '06-'11 NBA individually.

[juju151111]

If by "today's league, you mean the 2006-2011 NBA, then I see 32/6/6/2.5+/1+/49% FG/58% TS at a bare minimum.

A few seasons of 33+/6.5/6+/2.5+/1+/50+% FG/59%+ TS. A peak season or two of 35.0-36.0 ppg/6.5 reb/4.5-5.0 ast/2.5+ stl/1 blk/47-48% FG/56-57% TS.

A 24-29 year old Jordan would have decimated the '06-'11 NBA individually.
His TS goes up with the new rules.2006 season stats would be a videotape stats with how they called gms that year. The only thing he might regress a little in is defense, but not by much.

[Fatal9]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allento01.html

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allento01.html

:roll: /thread

[juju151111]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allento01.html
We not talking about people who won the 08 chip and help stop a HoF SG here. That guy shitted on that bum in 08.

[kaiiu]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allento01.html
this

edit: without the great D doe

[purplch0de]

22/6/6

[HylianNightmare]

90/90/90
is not out of the question

[juju151111]

90/90/90
is not out of the question
No not really:cheers:

[Jacks3]

http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/a/allento01.html
This.

[Leviathon1121]

Just what the board needed, another thread for the Kobe trolls and ghengis to go back and forth like idiots. Thank you OP, really, great thread. :rolleyes:

[Jacks3]

But seriously on a shitty team I could see something like 35-36 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/1 BPG/57-58% TS.

On a contender...31-33 PPG/6-7 RPG/5-7 APG/2-3 SPG/60%+ TS.

[juju151111]

But seriously on a shitty team I could see something like 35-36 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/1 BPG/57-58% TS.

On a contender...31-33 PPG/6-7 RPG/5-7 APG/2-3 SPG/60%+ TS.
Agreed:cheers:

[BlueandGold]

Jordan, only 40 y/o player to score 40 and only 39 y/o player to score 50.

Also I can't believe he averaged 1.5+ steals at that age as well.. I also can't think of anybody who can still average 23 ppg at that age except maybe Kareem who was a freak of a big man as well.

[Legends66NBA7]

As many observers and hall-of famers (i included one current NBA All-Star) of the game have said in the past, this is their take on the subject, in their words:

During a 2007 L.A. Lakers pre-season broadcast, Phil Jackson was asked how he thought Michael Jordan would perform today, Phil said: "Michael would average 45 with these rules."

Craig Hodges is the Lakers shooting coach, get a look at what he said:
Q: If you could take one player in their prime, would you take Michael Jordan or Kobe?

A: M.J., all day. There's no comparison. M.J. could score 100 points in this era. You can't hand-check now. Imagine that trying to guard M.J. It would be crazy.


"You can't even touch a guy now," says Charlotte coach Larry Brown, who also coached the 2004 Pistons defense... "The college game is much more physical than our game. I always tease Michael [Jordan], if he played today, he'd average 50."

Asked if he could defend Jordan under today

[Indian guy]

Assuming he's in the same team-situation as he was in his career, then pretty much the same numbers with lower efficiency(49-50%, as opposed to 52-54%).

[ImmortalD24]

If by "today's league, you mean the 2006-2011 NBA, then I see 32/6/6/2.5+/1+/49% FG/58% TS at a bare minimum.

A few seasons of 33+/6.5/6+/2.5+/1+/50+% FG/59%+ TS. A peak season or two of 35.0-36.0 ppg/6.5 reb/4.5-5.0 ast/2.5+ stl/1 blk/47-48% FG/56-57% TS.

A 24-29 year old Jordan would have decimated the '06-'11 NBA individually.
That sounds reasonable.. minus the steals.

[OldSchoolBBall]

That sounds reasonable.. minus the steals.

I actually undershot the steals. He'd easily average 2.5 steals per game, some seasons approaching 3 spg. The ability to play an area rather than a man, and him being allowed to not follow his man as closely and hang around plays, almost ensures that he'd be at 2.5 spg annually. He was averaging 2.2 spg as a 33 year old in a league with a lower average pace than the NBA the last few years. No way does a 23-30 year old MJ fail to reach 2.5 spg, especially with zone allowed.

[catch24]

If by "today's league, you mean the 2006-2011 NBA, then I see 32/6/6/2.5+/1+/49% FG/58% TS at a bare minimum.

A few seasons of 33+/6.5/6+/2.5+/1+/50+% FG/59%+ TS. A peak season or two of 35.0-36.0 ppg/6.5 reb/4.5-5.0 ast/2.5+ stl/1 blk/47-48% FG/56-57% TS.

A 24-29 year old Jordan would have decimated the '06-'11 NBA individually.

Do his shooting %'s go down because of the 'advanced defenses' today, or that pace is generally slower (e.g., less possessions)?

[OldSchoolBBall]

Do his shooting %'s go down because of the 'advanced defenses' today, or that pace is generally slower (e.g., less possessions)?

Well, in the first case (the "bare minimum"), it was just that - a bare minimum. I do see him averaging 32 ppg/50.5-51.5% FG fairly regularly in the '06-'11 NBA, with high seasons of perhaps 52% FG (I don't see him duplicating the 53-54% FG we saw from him in the late 80's, however, unless his volume dipped to the 27-29 ppg range).

In the second case, his "peak" seasons, I think that generally efficiency is inversely correlated with volume, and I used his 37 ppg season as the baseline, adjusting for the current era (so he averaged 37 ppg/48.2% FG in 1987, so I dropped it 1% to 47% FG). However, perhaps that might not be the case - we could just as easily use his 35 ppg/53.5% FG 1988 season as the baseline. Who knows? I am very confident that he could at least put up the numbers I suggested in the scenarios given.

And yes, the general FG% dip is because of the combination of better defenses and slower pace etc. Though it should be noted that the Bulls were always at or near the bottom of the league in terms of pace (91-96 pace factor, which isn't too far off from today); so perhaps Jordan's numbers wouldn't be as affected as some players back then would (e.g., players who depended on a lot of transition baskets for their points - most of MJ's transition buckets came off of his own defense out high on the floor).

[Round Mound]

Peek 40/7/6/2.5/50% FG/

Career in the 2000s 34/7/7/52% FG

[Jacks3]

:facepalm

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Peek 40/7/6/2.5/50% FG/

Career in the 2000s 34/7/7/52% FG

He's great but he's not f*cking superman

[juju151111]

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]As many observers and hall-of famers (i included one current NBA All-Star) of the game have said in the past, this is their take on the subject, in their words:

During a 2007 L.A. Lakers pre-season broadcast, Phil Jackson was asked how he thought Michael Jordan would perform today, Phil said: "Michael would average 45 with these rules."

Craig Hodges is the Lakers shooting coach, get a look at what he said:
Q: If you could take one player in their prime, would you take Michael Jordan or Kobe?

A: M.J., all day. There's no comparison. M.J. could score 100 points in this era. You can't hand-check now. Imagine that trying to guard M.J. It would be crazy.


"You can't even touch a guy now," says Charlotte coach Larry Brown, who also coached the 2004 Pistons defense... "The college game is much more physical than our game. I always tease Michael [Jordan], if he played today, he'd average 50."

Asked if he could defend Jordan under today

[juju151111]

Peek 40/7/6/2.5/50% FG/

Career in the 2000s 34/7/7/52% FG
Idk about 40, only year I can see him coming close is 06. Refs interpretation of the new rules were freaking retarded.

[andgar923]

Why are people assuming that his fg% would drop, when he'd be getting easier and more shots in the paint?

Young and prime MJ would be zooming past defenders on his way to the paint, he'd be able to get better position as well. And the lack of true big men in the paint would only make his job that much easier.

If Bron and Wade with half of MJ's IQ and skills can avg the % that they do, MJ would surpass that with ease.

[eliteballer]

Why are people assuming that his fg% would drop, when he'd be getting easier and more shots in the paint?

Young and prime MJ would be zooming past defenders on his way to the paint, he'd be able to get better position as well. And the lack of true big men in the paint would only make his job that much easier.

If Bron and Wade with half of MJ's IQ and skills can avg the % that they do, MJ would surpass that with ease.

LOL. LeBron and Wade have HALF of Jordan's skills and IQ? Thats almost as stupid as your smits is better than Howard claim.

He wouldnt get as many fast break opportunities. Theres zone defense too. He'd be facing longer more athletic defenders giving more effort on D on a more consistent basis.

Thats also why he wouldnt avg as many steals. He wouldnt be able to play off the ball D as much because he'd be facing better SG's and would have to play man D more often.

[gengiskhan]

MJ will butt rape his cheap Copy in Staples Forum every time Bulls show up in LA.

The Next day headlines in papers will read like this.

"MJ drops 75 on Kobe & Lakers"

"MJ's 60 points triple double destroys any Kobe comparisons"

"Early Christmas Fireworks in the Forum, MJ's annual visit to Laker Land results in 70 pts again"

"Now Annual Staples Center Christmas Match-up is proving one thing, There is no one quite like Mike"

[andgar923]

LOL. LeBron and Wade have HALF of Jordan's skills and IQ? Thats almost as stupid as your smits is better than Howard claim.

He wouldnt get as many fast break opportunities. Theres zone defense too. He'd be facing longer more athletic defenders giving more effort on D on a more consistent basis.

Thats also why he wouldnt avg as many steals. He wouldnt be able to play off the ball D as much because he'd be facing better SG's and would have to play man D more often.

You're a Kobe stan.... so your iq automatically = shit.

[eliteballer]

you.said.rik.smits.is.better.than.dwight.howard.

:roll:

[juju151111]

LOL. LeBron and Wade have HALF of Jordan's skills and IQ? Thats almost as stupid as your smits is better than Howard claim.

He wouldnt get as many fast break opportunities. Theres zone defense too. He'd be facing longer more athletic defenders giving more effort on D on a more consistent basis.

Thats also why he wouldnt avg as many steals. He wouldnt be able to play off the ball D as much because he'd be facing better SG's and would have to play man D more often.
Lmfao if their is zone he would be playing off the ball D. MJ would stillavg 2.5 stls his anticipation still didn't even leave at 40 with messed up knees. Lol more athletic defenders? Like who? MJ faced Clyde and Wilkins and had no problem.

[gengiskhan]

More Next Day NBA Headlines of Bulls-Lakers Prime Time showdown

"Air Jordan takes off on Shaq, Kobe & the Lakers, drops 73"

"Staples Center, a perfect runway for Air Jordan Flight on every visit"

"Jordan puts Kobe comparison's in place, shows who is the real MVP so far"

"Jordan dazzles the Hollywood with his own Visual Effects, Kobe & Shaq become mere spectators"

[andgar923]

you.said.rik.smits.is.better.than.dwight.howard.

:roll:
ROFL you think Kobe is better than Mj.:roll:

[juju151111]

More Next Day NBA Headlines of Bulls-Lakers Prime Time showdown

"Air Jordan takes off on Shaq, Kobe & the Lakers, drops 73"

"Staples Center, a perfect runway for Air Jordan Flight on every visit"

"Jordan puts Kobe comparison's in place, shows who is the real MVP so far"

"Jordan dazzles the Hollywood with his own Visual Effects, Kobe & Shaq become mere spectators"
Yep I see alot of those headlines. MJ puts Kobe in his place in the finals.

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

I see what you're saying now, I'm So Rad... :oldlol:

[juju151111]

ROFL you think Kobe is better than Mj.:roll:
Haaaaaaaaaaaaaaa:lol kometards

[gengiskhan]

More Next Day NBA Headlines from Staples Center

"For Kobe Bryant, Its Catch 23 every Christmas Day"

"Kobe Needs to raise his game & not be intimidated, says Magic"

"Kobe's poor shot selection playing into Jordan's & Pippen's trap defense, says Magic"

"Kareem wants Kobe to be patient in shot selection & be more selective"

"West blames media & critics for kobe jordan comparisons"

[Legends66NBA7]

In fact the zone defense in today's is a myth. Most teams don't use zone for long strechs, if at all.

Here is a small samplei of the 2009-2010 season of perimeter players who had a field day in the paint where they scored a majority of their points:

From Hoopdata

Tyreke Evans scored 714 points with layups and dunks
Tyreke Evans scored 804 points from inside of 10 feet
Tyreke Evans scored 836 points from inside of 15 feet
Tyreke Evans scored 348 points from the free throw line
Tyreke Evans scored 266 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,184 of Tyreke Evans's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 266 of Tyreke Evans's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 82% of Tyreke Evans's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Dwyane Wade scored 762 points with layups and dunks
Dwyane Wade scored 894 points from inside of 10 feet
Dwyane Wade scored 996 points from inside of 15 feet
Dwyane Wade scored 534 points from the free throw line
Dwyane Wade scored 515 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,530 of Dwyane Wade's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 515 of Dwyane Wade's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 75% of Dwyane Wade's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Carmelo Anthony scored 652 points with layups and dunks
Carmelo Anthony scored 736 points from inside of 10 feet
Carmelo Anthony scored 864 points from inside of 15 feet
Carmelo Anthony scored 508 points from the free throw line
Carmelo Anthony scored 571 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,372 of Carmelo Anthony's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 571 of Carmelo Anthony's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 71% of Carmelo Anthony's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Kevin Durant scored 602 points with layups and dunks
Kevin Durant scored 718 points from inside of 10 feet
Kevin Durant scored 976 points from inside of 15 feet
Kevin Durant scored 756 points from the free throw line
Kevin Durant scored 740 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,732 of Kevin Durant's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 740 of Kevin Durant's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 70% of Kevin Durant's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

LeBron James scored 754 points with layups and dunks
LeBron James scored 876 points from inside of 10 feet
LeBron James scored 934 points from inside of 15 feet
LeBron James scored 593 points from the free throw line
LeBron James scored 731 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,527 of LeBron James's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 731 of LeBron James's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 68% of LeBron James's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Derrick Rose scored 484 points with layups and dunks
Derrick Rose scored 676 points from inside of 10 feet
Derrick Rose scored 840 points from inside of 15 feet
Derrick Rose scored 259 points from the free throw line
Derrick Rose scored 520 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,099 of Derrick Rose's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 520 of Derrick Rose's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 68% of Derrick Rose's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Kobe Bryant scored 416 points with layups and dunks
Kobe Bryant scored 572 points from inside of 10 feet
Kobe Bryant scored 862 points from inside of 15 feet
Kobe Bryant scored 439 points from the free throw line
Kobe Bryant scored 669 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,301 of Kobe Bryant's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 669 of Kobe Bryant's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 66% of Kobe Bryant's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Monta Ellis scored 514 points with layups and dunks
Monta Ellis scored 702 points from inside of 10 feet
Monta Ellis scored 788 points from inside of 15 feet
Monta Ellis scored 292 points from the free throw line
Monta Ellis scored 551 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,080 of Monta Ellis's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 551 of Monta Ellis's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 66% of Monta Ellis's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Brandon Roy scored 346 points with layups and dunks
Brandon Roy scored 420 points from inside of 10 feet
Brandon Roy scored 534 points from inside of 15 feet
Brandon Roy scored 343 points from the free throw line
Brandon Roy scored 521 points from 15 feet and out
So 877 of Brandon Roy's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 521 of Brandon Roy's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 63% of Brandon Roy's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Dirk Nowitzki scored 328 points with layups and dunks
Dirk Nowitzki scored 416 points from inside of 10 feet
Dirk Nowitzki scored 718 points from inside of 15 feet
Dirk Nowitzki scored 536 points from the free throw line
Dirk Nowitzki scored 773 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,254 of Dirk Nowitzki's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 773 of Dirk Nowitzki's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 62% of Dirk Nowitzki's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Deron Williams scored 392 points with layups and dunks
Deron Williams scored 486 points from inside of 10 feet
Deron Williams scored 528 points from inside of 15 feet
Deron Williams scored 335 points from the free throw line
Deron Williams scored 556 points from 15 feet and out
So 863 of Deron Williams's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 556 of Deron Williams's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 61% of Deron Williams's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Stephen Jackson scored 478 points with layups and dunks
Stephen Jackson scored 550 points from inside of 10 feet
Stephen Jackson scored 610 points from inside of 15 feet
Stephen Jackson scored 312 points from the free throw line
Stephen Jackson scored 596 points from 15 feet and out
So 922 of Stephen Jackson's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 596 of Stephen Jackson's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 61% of Stephen Jackson's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Joe Johnson scored 324 points with layups and dunks
Joe Johnson scored 592 points from inside of 10 feet
Joe Johnson scored 718 points from inside of 15 feet
Joe Johnson scored 220 points from the free throw line
Joe Johnson scored 681 points from 15 feet and out
So 938 of Joe Johnson's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 681 of Joe Johnson's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 58% of Joe Johnson's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Danny Granger scored 326 points with layups and dunks
Danny Granger scored 406 points from inside of 10 feet
Danny Granger scored 478 points from inside of 15 feet
Danny Granger scored 363 points from the free throw line
Danny Granger scored 656 points from 15 feet and out
So 841 of Danny Granger's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 656 of Danny Granger's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 56% of Danny Granger's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.


So there you go, the zone defense is actually a sign of weakness, as it shades weaker defenders. Strong Man to Man defense and with quick help is the best way to stop penetrating perimeter players.

Michael Jordan would have no problem penertrating today's defense with no paint presence (due to 3 second rule) and no physical detaning tactic like handchecking, with his quickness and explosiveness. He would score high, but he would also have to have a lesser supporting cast to shatter some scoring records (not that he doesn't have enough) or something of that magnitude.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

I see what you're saying now, I'm So Rad... :oldlol:

:oldlol:

[andgar923]

In fact the zone defense in today's is a myth. Most teams don't use zone for long strechs, if at all.

Here is a small samplei of the 2009-2010 season of perimeter players who had a field day in the paint where they scored a majority of their points:

From Hoopdata

Tyreke Evans scored 714 points with layups and dunks
Tyreke Evans scored 804 points from inside of 10 feet
Tyreke Evans scored 836 points from inside of 15 feet
Tyreke Evans scored 348 points from the free throw line
Tyreke Evans scored 266 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,184 of Tyreke Evans's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 266 of Tyreke Evans's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 82% of Tyreke Evans's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Dwyane Wade scored 762 points with layups and dunks
Dwyane Wade scored 894 points from inside of 10 feet
Dwyane Wade scored 996 points from inside of 15 feet
Dwyane Wade scored 534 points from the free throw line
Dwyane Wade scored 515 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,530 of Dwyane Wade's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 515 of Dwyane Wade's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 75% of Dwyane Wade's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Carmelo Anthony scored 652 points with layups and dunks
Carmelo Anthony scored 736 points from inside of 10 feet
Carmelo Anthony scored 864 points from inside of 15 feet
Carmelo Anthony scored 508 points from the free throw line
Carmelo Anthony scored 571 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,372 of Carmelo Anthony's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 571 of Carmelo Anthony's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 71% of Carmelo Anthony's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Kevin Durant scored 602 points with layups and dunks
Kevin Durant scored 718 points from inside of 10 feet
Kevin Durant scored 976 points from inside of 15 feet
Kevin Durant scored 756 points from the free throw line
Kevin Durant scored 740 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,732 of Kevin Durant's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 740 of Kevin Durant's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 70% of Kevin Durant's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

LeBron James scored 754 points with layups and dunks
LeBron James scored 876 points from inside of 10 feet
LeBron James scored 934 points from inside of 15 feet
LeBron James scored 593 points from the free throw line
LeBron James scored 731 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,527 of LeBron James's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 731 of LeBron James's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 68% of LeBron James's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Derrick Rose scored 484 points with layups and dunks
Derrick Rose scored 676 points from inside of 10 feet
Derrick Rose scored 840 points from inside of 15 feet
Derrick Rose scored 259 points from the free throw line
Derrick Rose scored 520 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,099 of Derrick Rose's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 520 of Derrick Rose's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 68% of Derrick Rose's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Kobe Bryant scored 416 points with layups and dunks
Kobe Bryant scored 572 points from inside of 10 feet
Kobe Bryant scored 862 points from inside of 15 feet
Kobe Bryant scored 439 points from the free throw line
Kobe Bryant scored 669 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,301 of Kobe Bryant's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 669 of Kobe Bryant's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 66% of Kobe Bryant's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Monta Ellis scored 514 points with layups and dunks
Monta Ellis scored 702 points from inside of 10 feet
Monta Ellis scored 788 points from inside of 15 feet
Monta Ellis scored 292 points from the free throw line
Monta Ellis scored 551 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,080 of Monta Ellis's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 551 of Monta Ellis's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 66% of Monta Ellis's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Brandon Roy scored 346 points with layups and dunks
Brandon Roy scored 420 points from inside of 10 feet
Brandon Roy scored 534 points from inside of 15 feet
Brandon Roy scored 343 points from the free throw line
Brandon Roy scored 521 points from 15 feet and out
So 877 of Brandon Roy's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 521 of Brandon Roy's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 63% of Brandon Roy's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Dirk Nowitzki scored 328 points with layups and dunks
Dirk Nowitzki scored 416 points from inside of 10 feet
Dirk Nowitzki scored 718 points from inside of 15 feet
Dirk Nowitzki scored 536 points from the free throw line
Dirk Nowitzki scored points from 15 feet and out
So 1,254 of Dirk Nowitzki's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 773 of Dirk Nowitzki's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 62% of Dirk Nowitzki's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Deron Williams scored 392 points with layups and dunks
Deron Williams scored 486 points from inside of 10 feet
Deron Williams scored 528 points from inside of 15 feet
Deron Williams scored 335 points from the free throw line
Deron Williams scored 556 points from 15 feet and out
So 863 of Deron Williams's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 556 of Deron Williams's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 61% of Deron Williams's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Stephen Jackson scored 478 points with layups and dunks
Stephen Jackson scored 550 points from inside of 10 feet
Stephen Jackson scored 610 points from inside of 15 feet
Stephen Jackson scored 312 points from the free throw line
Stephen Jackson scored 596 points from 15 feet and out
So 922 of Stephen Jackson's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 596 of Stephen Jackson's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 61% of Stephen Jackson's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Joe Johnson scored 324 points with layups and dunks
Joe Johnson scored 592 points from inside of 10 feet
Joe Johnson scored 718 points from inside of 15 feet
Joe Johnson scored 220 points from the free throw line
Joe Johnson scored 681 points from 15 feet and out
So 938 of Joe Johnson's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 681 of Joe Johnson's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 58% of Joe Johnson's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Danny Granger scored 326 points with layups and dunks
Danny Granger scored 406 points from inside of 10 feet
Danny Granger scored 478 points from inside of 15 feet
Danny Granger scored 363 points from the free throw line
Danny Granger scored 656 points from 15 feet and out
So 841 of Danny Granger's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 656 of Danny Granger's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 56% of Danny Granger's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.


So there you go, the zone defense is actually a sign of weakness, as it shades weaker defenders. Strong Man to Man defense and with quick help is the best way to stop penetrating perimeter players.

Michael Jordan would have no problem penertrating today's defense with no paint presence (due to 3 second rule) and no physical detaning tactic like handchecking, with his quickness and explosiveness. He would score high, but he would also have to have a lesser supporting cast to shatter some scoring records (not that he doesn't have enough) or something of that magnatutide.

I've said this years ago. Because it isn't a TRUE 'zone' defense, and the rules that were created to aid perimeter defenders only helps them. And of course, the often overlooked wide open paint. The lanes is wide open so players can waltz in with today's rules. Whatever Wade averages in ft attempts, MJ'll beat that. Bron rarely posts up, his driving is basically running over people yet he averages around 50%? Mj would post up far more, drive far more and be better at it than him.

Hell.. I made a video of Wizards MJ waltzing his way inside the paint and getting position with ease. MJ just didn't have the legs to consistently finish and beat his man off the dribble for 4 quarters on a nightly basis. But when he had rest and his legs were relatively fresh? it was MJ circa 93 all over again... a younger and prime MJ would be embarrassing today's league, no doubt about it.

But what do experts know right?

Kobe fans know better.

ROFL @ using 'FACTS'.... Kobe fans have no use for such things.

[eliteballer]

No no no:oldlol:

Why would you include FT's in that %? FT's can happen for any variety of reasons. How many of those points are for posting up from Kobe, Dirk, Melo? Only include layups or dunks.

Second, those numbers are useless unless you have similar numbers from the 80's 90's, and even then, players now have better handles which helps slashing ability. Not to mention you dont know if that percentage from dunks and layups would RISE if they played back then.

and finally...its magnitude:roll:

[Legends66NBA7]

I've said this years ago. Because it isn't a TRUE 'zone' defense, and the rules that were created to aid perimeter defenders only helps them. And of course, the often overlooked wide open paint. The lanes is wide open so players can waltz in with today's rules. Whatever Wade averages in ft attempts, MJ'll beat that. Bron rarely posts up, his driving is basically running over people yet he averages around 50%? Mj would post up far more, drive far more and be better at it than him.

Hell.. I made a video of Wizards MJ waltzing his way inside the paint and getting position with ease. MJ just didn't have the legs to consistently finish and beat his man off the dribble for 4 quarters on a nightly basis. But when he had rest and his legs were relatively fresh? it was MJ circa 93 all over again... a younger and prime MJ would be embarrassing today's league, no doubt about it.

But what do experts know right?

Kobe fans know better.

Right on man.

I don't know how good he could be, but in a league that favors his style of play, i could definitely see a 40+ppg season at the very least in his prime.

[Jacks3]

And this is why Jordan gets so much hate.

40+ PPG? Really?

[andgar923]

As I mentioned....

Facts are irrelevant to Kobetards.

Expert opinions are irrelevant to Kobetards.

Logic is nothing but a vague abstract concept to them.

[SuperPippen]

Peek 40/7/6/2.5/50% FG/

Career in the 2000s 34/7/7/52% FG


That.............. is pretty damn unreasonable, and that's an understatement.


I could see him chucking his way to 40 PPG on, like, 42-43% shooting if he had some Kobe '06 level supporting casts, but come on, man.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Considering a 38-40 year old MJ held his own against some of the top dogs in the league, I'm sure a MJ in the 90s will dominate today's league.

I can see MJ putting up something like 32/7/6 on 49-52% shooting with 2-3 steals and 1-1.5 blocks, on a stacked contender. Not to mention he'll up his level of play in the playoffs. Look for him to average 40.

On a crappy team, maybe he can put up something like 37/5/5 on 47-48% shooting.

[Legends66NBA7]

As I mentioned....

Facts are irrelevant to Kobetards.

Expert opinions are irrelevant to Kobetards.

Logic is nothing but a vague abstract concept to them.

Look what Bryon Russell think Jordan could do today:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym1qPs4kbOU

Either that or "The Shot Part 2" has eternially scared him.

[juju151111]

In fact the zone defense in today's is a myth. Most teams don't use zone for long strechs, if at all.

Here is a small samplei of the 2009-2010 season of perimeter players who had a field day in the paint where they scored a majority of their points:

From Hoopdata

Tyreke Evans scored 714 points with layups and dunks
Tyreke Evans scored 804 points from inside of 10 feet
Tyreke Evans scored 836 points from inside of 15 feet
Tyreke Evans scored 348 points from the free throw line
Tyreke Evans scored 266 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,184 of Tyreke Evans's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 266 of Tyreke Evans's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 82% of Tyreke Evans's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Dwyane Wade scored 762 points with layups and dunks
Dwyane Wade scored 894 points from inside of 10 feet
Dwyane Wade scored 996 points from inside of 15 feet
Dwyane Wade scored 534 points from the free throw line
Dwyane Wade scored 515 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,530 of Dwyane Wade's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 515 of Dwyane Wade's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 75% of Dwyane Wade's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Carmelo Anthony scored 652 points with layups and dunks
Carmelo Anthony scored 736 points from inside of 10 feet
Carmelo Anthony scored 864 points from inside of 15 feet
Carmelo Anthony scored 508 points from the free throw line
Carmelo Anthony scored 571 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,372 of Carmelo Anthony's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 571 of Carmelo Anthony's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 71% of Carmelo Anthony's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Kevin Durant scored 602 points with layups and dunks
Kevin Durant scored 718 points from inside of 10 feet
Kevin Durant scored 976 points from inside of 15 feet
Kevin Durant scored 756 points from the free throw line
Kevin Durant scored 740 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,732 of Kevin Durant's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 740 of Kevin Durant's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 70% of Kevin Durant's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

LeBron James scored 754 points with layups and dunks
LeBron James scored 876 points from inside of 10 feet
LeBron James scored 934 points from inside of 15 feet
LeBron James scored 593 points from the free throw line
LeBron James scored 731 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,527 of LeBron James's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 731 of LeBron James's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 68% of LeBron James's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Derrick Rose scored 484 points with layups and dunks
Derrick Rose scored 676 points from inside of 10 feet
Derrick Rose scored 840 points from inside of 15 feet
Derrick Rose scored 259 points from the free throw line
Derrick Rose scored 520 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,099 of Derrick Rose's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 520 of Derrick Rose's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 68% of Derrick Rose's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Kobe Bryant scored 416 points with layups and dunks
Kobe Bryant scored 572 points from inside of 10 feet
Kobe Bryant scored 862 points from inside of 15 feet
Kobe Bryant scored 439 points from the free throw line
Kobe Bryant scored 669 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,301 of Kobe Bryant's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 669 of Kobe Bryant's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 66% of Kobe Bryant's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Monta Ellis scored 514 points with layups and dunks
Monta Ellis scored 702 points from inside of 10 feet
Monta Ellis scored 788 points from inside of 15 feet
Monta Ellis scored 292 points from the free throw line
Monta Ellis scored 551 points from 15 feet and out
So 1,080 of Monta Ellis's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 551 of Monta Ellis's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 66% of Monta Ellis's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Brandon Roy scored 346 points with layups and dunks
Brandon Roy scored 420 points from inside of 10 feet
Brandon Roy scored 534 points from inside of 15 feet
Brandon Roy scored 343 points from the free throw line
Brandon Roy scored 521 points from 15 feet and out
So 877 of Brandon Roy's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 521 of Brandon Roy's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 63% of Brandon Roy's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Dirk Nowitzki scored 328 points with layups and dunks
Dirk Nowitzki scored 416 points from inside of 10 feet
Dirk Nowitzki scored 718 points from inside of 15 feet
Dirk Nowitzki scored 536 points from the free throw line
Dirk Nowitzki scored points from 15 feet and out
So 1,254 of Dirk Nowitzki's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 773 of Dirk Nowitzki's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 62% of Dirk Nowitzki's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Deron Williams scored 392 points with layups and dunks
Deron Williams scored 486 points from inside of 10 feet
Deron Williams scored 528 points from inside of 15 feet
Deron Williams scored 335 points from the free throw line
Deron Williams scored 556 points from 15 feet and out
So 863 of Deron Williams's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 556 of Deron Williams's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 61% of Deron Williams's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Stephen Jackson scored 478 points with layups and dunks
Stephen Jackson scored 550 points from inside of 10 feet
Stephen Jackson scored 610 points from inside of 15 feet
Stephen Jackson scored 312 points from the free throw line
Stephen Jackson scored 596 points from 15 feet and out
So 922 of Stephen Jackson's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 596 of Stephen Jackson's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 61% of Stephen Jackson's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Joe Johnson scored 324 points with layups and dunks
Joe Johnson scored 592 points from inside of 10 feet
Joe Johnson scored 718 points from inside of 15 feet
Joe Johnson scored 220 points from the free throw line
Joe Johnson scored 681 points from 15 feet and out
So 938 of Joe Johnson's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 681 of Joe Johnson's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 58% of Joe Johnson's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.

Danny Granger scored 326 points with layups and dunks
Danny Granger scored 406 points from inside of 10 feet
Danny Granger scored 478 points from inside of 15 feet
Danny Granger scored 363 points from the free throw line
Danny Granger scored 656 points from 15 feet and out
So 841 of Danny Granger's points came inside of 15 feet or the free throw line, and only 656 of Danny Granger's points came from 15 feet and out.
So 56% of Danny Granger's points came from inside of 15 feet and the free throw line.


So there you go, the zone defense is actually a sign of weakness, as it shades weaker defenders. Strong Man to Man defense and with quick help is the best way to stop penetrating perimeter players.

Michael Jordan would have no problem penertrating today's defense with no paint presence (due to 3 second rule) an:applause: d no physical detaning tactic like handchecking, with his quickness and explosiveness. He would score high, but he would also have to have a lesser supporting cast to shatter some scoring records (not that he doesn't have enough) or something of that magnatutide.
Owned,Raped,Owned,Ether etc... Yep Monte Ellis sure is goat:lol :applause:

[gengiskhan]

And this is why Jordan gets so much hate.

40+ PPG? Really?

dumb aaaaaas

didnt you see him ave 37.1 ppg when he didnt get superstar calls & was 23 yrs old super athletic freak of nature?

assuming that you are just another dumb kobe'tard with 50 IQ, difference btw 37.1 ppg & 40 ppg is only 2.9 ppg.

MJ shot 84% FT.

If MJ is sent to the line 10 more time, He'll actually ave 42+ppg easily with his athletic skills & lightening quick first step drawing foul after foul on crap called "zone defense"

[juju151111]

No no no:oldlol:

Why would you include FT's in that %? FT's can happen for any variety of reasons. How many of those points are for posting up from Kobe, Dirk, Melo? Only include layups or dunks.

Second, those numbers are useless unless you have similar numbers from the 80's 90's, and even then, players now have better handles which helps slashing ability. Not to mention you dont know if that percentage from dunks and layups would RISE if they played back then.

and finally...its magnitude:roll:
What does 80s and 90s have to do with anything. His main point was you ain't stopping him from driving with a fake zone. You know the zone pat Riley said is thrash. The zine Larry brown doesn't like to use. The zone Tibs said isn't the best. The 3 best defensive masterminds in ur era called it a joke and not to be relied upon.

[gengiskhan]

Peek 40/7/6/2.5/50% FG/

Career in the 2000s 34/7/7/52% FG

This. totally!

Many fools here think MJ cannot score 40 ppg

Let me break it down

10 pts per Quarter = 7 pts off FG + 3 pts off FT per Quarter.

absolutely doable

most of the greats of today like LBJ, Kobe, Wade are in mid 20s (23-26 pts range) by mid to late 3rd Q.

I can clearly see MJ being in early to mid 30s (33-36 pts range) in late 3 Q.

I can see MJ going into the 4th Q with 35 pts from 3 quarters. MJ's notorious habit of turning it on & taking over the game in 4th Q is legendary.

The result will always be MJ btw 42-45 ppg in his first 9 seasons from 1986-1993.

Refs sending him to FT line regularly will only help his PPG cuz of 85%FT shooting.

I actually dont see MJ ave less than 42 ppg unless refs play bias against him.

[Legends66NBA7]

No no no:oldlol:

Why would you include FT's in that %? FT's can happen for any variety of reasons. How many of those points are for posting up from Kobe, Dirk, Melo? Only include layups or dunks.

Second, those numbers are useless unless you have similar numbers from the 80's 90's, and even then, players now have better handles which helps slashing ability. Not to mention you dont know if that percentage from dunks and layups would RISE if they played back then.

and finally...its magnitude:roll:

Well magnitude is now fixed.

[eliteballer]

Allow me to get in the way of this circle jerk but...you honestly think he'll average numbers as good, let alone BETTER when his best numbers came at a time when the BEST defensive team(bad boys) allowed more PPG than the Don Nelson Nash/Dirk Mavs?

:oldlol: :facepalm

[andgar923]

Allow me to get in the way of this circle jerk but...you honestly think he'll average numbers as good, let alone BETTER when his best numbers came at a time when the BEST defensive team(bad boys) allowed more PPG than the Don Nelson Nash/Dirk Mavs?

:oldlol: :facepalm

Oh.. kobetards.. kobetards.:facepalm

[gengiskhan]

More Next Day NBA Headlines from Staple Center

"West Furious at LA Media for giving Jordan christmas spotlight"

"Jordan's Blockbuster Run continues in Hollywood, Lakers mere spectators to Air Show"

"Kobe Vanessa need to stop christmas dinners with MJ Pippen every christmas after losses, Magic says"

"Hollywood Shuts Down to watch Air Show for Game 1 of the NBA Finals"

"Jordan Rips Apart Lakers in 4th Quarter in Crucial must win Game 2 of NBA Finals"

"Kobe, a no show against Bulls defense in Game 1 of NBA Finals"

"Shaq lashes out at Kobe for continued poor run after Game 2 debacle"

"Jordan 4th Quarter heroics too much for LA"

[Legends66NBA7]

Allow me to get in the way of this circle jerk but...you honestly think he'll average numbers as good, let alone BETTER when his best numbers came at a time when the BEST defensive team(bad boys) allowed more PPG than the Don Nelson Nash/Dirk Mavs?

:oldlol: :facepalm

Well sure they allowed more points, but what is the true reason for that ?

During the 80's and 90's, there much big men dominating the game. It was a big man's game. Hence there were more shots taken closer to the basket. The 3 point line was established in the league in 1979-80. Most players didn't have that skill to shoot 3 pointers at the time. Also most coach's would frown upon to take the 3 pointer back in that era because it a low % shot.

There also the fact that i don't believe people have mentioned here yet, like the fact that the 80's was the standard for high passing, high efficiency % offense.

Take a look at the top 50 teams passing teams of all-time:

1. 1984-85 Lakers 31.4ast 54.5%fg
2. 1978-79 Bucks 31.2ast 50.3%fg
3. 1982-83 Lakers 30.7ast 52.8%fg
4. 1978-79 Suns 30.5ast 51.2%fg
5. 1983-84 Nuggets 30.3ast 49.3%fg
6. 1983-84 Lakers 29.9ast 53.2%fg
7. 1987-88 Celtics 29.9ast 52.1%fg
8. 1985-86 Lakers 29.7ast 52.2%fg
9. 1986-87 Lakers 29.6ast 51.6%fg
10. 1989-90 Celtics 29.5ast 49.9%fg
11. 1986-87 Celtics 29.5ast 51.7%fg
12. 1979-80 Lakers 29.4ast 52.9%fg
13. 1987-88 Jazz 29.4ast 49.1%fg
14. 1991-92 Pacers 29.2ast 49.4%fg
15. 1985-86 Celtics 29.1ast 50.8%fg
16. 1980-81 Sixers 28.9ast 51.4%fg
17. 1980-81 Lakers 28.8ast 51.2%fg
18. 1983-84 Spurs 28.8ast 50.6%fg
19. 1986-87 Blazers 28.8ast 50.4%fg
20. 1981-82 Lakers 28.7ast 51.7%fg
21. 1986-87 Suns 28.7ast 49.7%fg
22. 1992-93 Cavs 28.6ast 49.7%fg
23. 1987-88 Lakers 28.6ast 50.5%fg
24. 1987-88 Spurs 28.6ast 49.0%fg
25. 1984-85 Kings 28.6ast 50.4%fg
26. 1978-79 Lakers 28.5ast 51.7%fg
27. 1977-78 Knicks 28.5ast 48.8%fg
28. 1977-78 Suns 28.5ast 47.6%fg
29. 1982-83 Nuggets 28.5ast 47.6%fg
30. 1984-85 Suns 28.5ast 49.1%fg
31. 1987-88 Suns 28.5ast 49.1%fg
32. 1979-80 Spurs 28.4ast 49.8%fg
33. 1988-89 Hornets 28.3ast 46.1%fg
34. 1972-73 Celtics 28.3ast 44.8%fg
35. 1980-81 Bucks 28.3ast 49.8%fg
36. 1985-86 Pistons 28.3ast 48.4%fg
37. 1895-86 Rockets 28.3ast 49.0%fg
38. 1986-87 Nuggets 28.3ast 47.1%fg
39. 1984-85 Spurs 28.2ast 51.3%fg
40. 1978-79 Spurs 28.2ast 50.6%fg
41. 1987-88 Blazers 28.1ast 49.1%fg
42. 1977-78 Bucks 28.1ast 48.2%fg
43. 1985-86 Kings 28.1ast 49.0%fg
44. 1984-85 Pistons 28.1ast 48.0%fg
45. 1978-79 Rockets 28.1ast 49.7%fg
46. 1972-73 Lakers 28.1ast 47.8%fg
47. 1982-83 Suns 28.0ast 49.7%fg
48. 1987-88 Nuggets 27.9ast 47.4%fg
49. 1984-85 Cletics 27.9ast 50.8%fg
50. 1991-92 Hornets 27.9ast 47.7%fg

The 1980's was the height of team basketball. On this list 36 teams from the 80's, 11 teams from the 70's, and 3 teams from the 90's.

It's much wiser to work as a 5 man unit, while getting the defense off balance, by rotating the ball around the horn because it opens up higher percentage shots. Also because the era was dominated by big men and 80's was deep with small forwards, 3 front line players that play closer to the basket > 2 wing players off today who would make a low% of their shots more often than not.

Players didn't feel it was entitled to have one player take a high volume of shots on a team and if there was exception of a player ? They better make 50% or over. Hence the big men or exceptions like Michael Jordan, George Gervin, Adrian Dantley, etc..

Also there is talk about pace factor effecting this too. It's true to some degree. Yes, the average more possessions. But was it weak defense ? No, it was not. Just look at the list above. It was because more teams could play very high level of offense. That's why most of the times the offenses would trump the defense, because they played much smarter version of offensive basketball. Which is why they could play at a faster pace, better efficiency.

Also the defense for one thing was no sloutch. They were actually allowed to play defense, such as:

- Handchecking
- Could camp in the lane, no defensive 3 second rule.
- Would pay the price as a perimeter player if you went to the basket and get fouled hard

It was like that in the 80's and 90's. It was even worse in the 70's, as fighting would happen more often than not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1y5L5mqvCk (go to 4:55 mark)

So in truth the Detroit Pistons were playing some great defense. It's was a fast paced, high passing game, high efficient game that would get the best of them from time to time.

In truth, the Don Nelson Nash/Dirk Mavericks would have allowed even more points in the 80's. Plus, Nash and Dirk have been more often very perimeter oriented, so they would probably have difficulty adjusting to physical man to man defense being played.

[SuperPippen]

Allow me to get in the way of this circle jerk but...you honestly think he'll average numbers as good, let alone BETTER when his best numbers came at a time when the BEST defensive team(bad boys) allowed more PPG than the Don Nelson Nash/Dirk Mavs?

:oldlol: :facepalm

The Mavericks are a good defensive team, and the Pistons played at a higher pace than the Mavs did.

If you're gonna say shit like that, it might be a good idea to put it into the proper context.

[andgar923]

Well sure they allowed more points, but what is the true reason for that ?

During the 80's and 90's, there much big men dominating the game. It was a big man's game. Hence there were more shots taken closer to the basket. The 3 point line was established in the league in 1979-80. Most players didn't have that skill to shoot 3 pointers at the time. Also most coach's would frown upon to take the 3 pointer back in that era because it a low % shot.

There also the fact that i don't believe people have mentioned here yet, like the fact that the 80's was the standard for high passing, high efficiency % offense.

Take a look at the top 50 teams passing teams of al-time:

1. 1984-85 Lakers 31.4ast 54.5%fg
2. 1978-79 Bucks 31.2ast 50.3%fg
3. 1982-83 Lakers 30.7ast 52.8%fg
4. 1978-79 Suns 30.5ast 51.2%fg
5. 1983-84 Nuggets 30.3ast 49.3%fg
6. 1983-84 Lakers 29.9ast 53.2%fg
7. 1987-88 Celtics 29.9ast 52.1%fg
8. 1985-86 Lakers 29.7ast 52.2%fg
9. 1986-87 Lakers 29.6ast 51.6%fg
10. 1989-90 Celtics 29.5ast 49.9%fg
11. 1986-87 Celtics 29.5ast 51.7%fg
12. 1979-80 Lakers 29.4ast 52.9%fg
13. 1987-88 Jazz 29.4ast 49.1%fg
14. 1991-92 Pacers 29.2ast 49.4%fg
15. 1985-86 Celtics 29.1ast 50.8%fg
16. 1980-81 Sixers 28.9ast 51.4%fg
17. 1980-81 Lakers 28.8ast 51.2%fg
18. 1983-84 Spurs 28.8ast 50.6%fg
19. 1986-87 Blazers 28.8ast 50.4%fg
20. 1981-82 Lakers 28.7ast 51.7%fg
21. 1986-87 Suns 28.7ast 49.7%fg
22. 1992-93 Cavs 28.6ast 49.7%fg
23. 1987-88 Lakers 28.6ast 50.5%fg
24. 1987-88 Spurs 28.6ast 49.0%fg
25. 1984-85 Kings 28.6ast 50.4%fg
26. 1978-79 Lakers 28.5ast 51.7%fg
27. 1977-78 Knicks 28.5ast 48.8%fg
28. 1977-78 Suns 28.5ast 47.6%fg
29. 1982-83 Nuggets 28.5ast 47.6%fg
30. 1984-85 Suns 28.5ast 49.1%fg
31. 1987-88 Suns 28.5ast 49.1%fg
32. 1979-80 Spurs 28.4ast 49.8%fg
33. 1988-89 Hornets 28.3ast 46.1%fg
34. 1972-73 Celtics 28.3ast 44.8%fg
35. 1980-81 Bucks 28.3ast 49.8%fg
36. 1985-86 Pistons 28.3ast 48.4%fg
37. 1895-86 Rockets 28.3ast 49.0%fg
38. 1986-87 Nuggets 28.3ast 47.1%fg
39. 1984-85 Spurs 28.2ast 51.3%fg
40. 1978-79 Spurs 28.2ast 50.6%fg
41. 1987-88 Blazers 28.1ast 49.1%fg
42. 1977-78 Bucks 28.1ast 48.2%fg
43. 1985-86 Kings 28.1ast 49.0%fg
44. 1984-85 Pistons 28.1ast 48.0%fg
45. 1978-79 Rockets 28.1ast 49.7%fg
46. 1972-73 Lakers 28.1ast 47.8%fg
47. 1982-83 Suns 28.0ast 49.7%fg
48. 1987-88 Nuggets 27.9ast 47.4%fg
49. 1984-85 Cletics 27.9ast 50.8%fg
50. 1991-92 Hornets 27.9ast 47.7%fg

The 1980's was the height of team basketball. On this list 36 teams from the 80's, 11 teams from the 70's, and 3 teams from the 90's.

It's much wiser to work as a 5 man unit, while getting the defense off balance, by rotating the ball around the horn because it opens up higher percentage shots. Also because the era was dominated by big men and 80's was deep with small forwards, 3 front line players that play closer to the basket > 2 wing players off today who would make a low% of their shots more often than not.

Players didn't feel it was entitled to have one player take a high volume of shots on a team and if there was exception of a player ? They better make 50% or over. Hence the big men or exceptions like Michael Jordan, George Gervin, Adrian Dantley, etc..

Also there is talk about pace factor effecting this too. It's true to some degree. Yes, the average more possessions. But was it weak defense ? No, it was not. Just look at the list above. It was because more teams could play very high level of offense. That's why most of the times the offenses would trump the defense, because they played much smarter version of offensive basketball. Which is why they could play at a faster pace, better efficiency.

Also the defense for one thing was no sloutch. They were actually allowed to play defense, such as:

- Handchecking
- Could camp in the lane, no defensive 3 second rule.
- Would pay the price as a perimeter player if you went to the basket and get fouled hard

It was like that in the 80's and 90's. It was even worse in the 70's, as fighting would happen more often than not:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_1y5L5mqvCk

So in truth the Detroit Pistons were playing some great defense. It's was a fast paced, high passing game, high efficient game that would get the best of them from time to time.

In truth, the Don Nelson Nash/Dirk Mavericks would have allowed even more points in the 80's. Plus, Nash and Dirk have been more often very perimeter oriented, so they would probably have difficulty adjusting to physical man to man defense being played.

I see that you're relatively new here, so let me explain it to you as best as possible.

Everything you posted will be processed through a Kobe-filter, which basically allows them to decipher everything you posted, and then they'll scramble to find any way to skew, misinterpret, lie, exaggerate whatever it is to fit their agenda.

Many of us have tried to explain everything you've posted numerous times. But as you've seen, they just twist things to fit their own warped reality. Forget facts, facts are nothing but things that dumb people use (unless of course, it fits THEIR agenda). They have one thing, one thing more powerful than facts.... their unparalleled conviction, devotion and love for Kobe and his legacy.

Kobe himself has stated that MJ is better.... but does that sway them or do they input that? no.. of course not.

If Kobe's own testament wasn't enough, they also revoke and gall at anything stated by experts, players, coaches, officials, stats, facts, video highlights, records, accomplishments, accolades etc.etc.

And yet... their only beacon of hope, their only light at the end of the tunnel, is their trump card which they'll be glad to bang on your head when all else fails:

81 points.

That's what keeps them asleep at night.

[Dave3]

This. totally!

Many fools here think MJ cannot score 40 ppg

Let me break it down

10 pts per Quarter = 7 pts off FG + 3 pts off FT per Quarter.

absolutely doable

most of the greats of today like LBJ, Kobe, Wade are in mid 20s (23-26 pts range) by mid to late 3rd Q.

I can clearly see MJ being in early to mid 30s (33-36 pts range) in late 3 Q.

I can see MJ going into the 4th Q with 35 pts from 3 quarters. MJ's notorious habit of turning it on & taking over the game in 4th Q is legendary.

The result will always be MJ btw 42-45 ppg in his first 9 seasons from 1986-1993.

Refs sending him to FT line regularly will only help his PPG cuz of 85%FT shooting.

I actually dont see MJ ave less than 42 ppg unless refs play bias against him.
:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Wow. That's all I can say. Averaging up to 45 ppg for 9 seasons?? Seriously?

[SuperPippen]

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Wow. That's all I can say. Averaging up to 45 ppg for 9 seasons?? Seriously?

Just disregard him.


He's as delusional as they come.

[Legends66NBA7]

I see that you're relatively new here, so let me explain it to you as best as possible.

Everything you posted will be processed through a Kobe-filter, which basically allows them to decipher everything you posted, and then they'll scramble to find any way to skew, misinterpret, lie, exaggerate whatever it is to fit their agenda.

Many of us have tried to explain everything you've posted numerous times. But as you've seen, they just twist things to fit their own warped reality. Forget facts, facts are nothing but things that dumb people use (unless of course, it fits THEIR agenda). They have one thing, one thing more powerful than facts.... their unparalleled conviction, devotion and love for Kobe and his legacy.

Kobe himself has stated that MJ is better.... but does that sway them or do they input that? no.. of course not.

If Kobe's own testament wasn't enough, they also revoke and gall at anything stated by experts, players, coaches, officials, stats, facts, video highlights, records, accomplishments, accolades etc.etc.

And yet... their only beacon of hope, their only light at the end of the tunnel, is their trump card which they'll be glad to bang on your head when all else fails:

81 points.

That's what keeps them asleep at night.

Well can't deny that, i can see the cool Kobe fans though and the irrational ones. Some are just inbetween. I can't hate them for repping their era, but yes i agree they can't think that the facts can be skewed like that. Oh well, to each his own.

[Legends66NBA7]

....
By the way, 81 points. Want to know a little fact that most people don't know about it ? I am sure the Kobe fans would be delighted to know this as well.

There was a guy named Rafela Aruajo on that Toronto Raptors team that year. He was picked 8th overall in 2004 by Rob Babcock, a man who was probably on the strongest of all hallucinogenic plants, because he drafted Aruajo because the Raptors needed a center. We could have has Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, J.R. Smith, Kevin Martin, etc... but nope Raptors needed a freak show.


During his sophomore season, the man they called "Hoffa" (probably another lose term for neanderthal) played about 38 games going into the night of the game that Kobe Bean Bryant dropped 81 points. Haffa never played that night. Want to know his total points up to that season in 38 games Mr. Andgar ? 80 points. 80 FREAKING POINTS. I had to laugh at how amazing that was.

Hoffa the G.O.A.T in 38 games: 80
The Bean: 81

That is all. Now i hope the Kobe fans go to bed happy reading that mastery of a tale, that Kobe Bean outscored the TRUE G.O.A.T Hoffa in 1 game. Please go to bed happy you know that now. The more you know.

I sure as hell don't having to watch and remember that team all year long and that was our lone bright moment. This sure as hell wasn't:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWxYCyijHps

[Legends66NBA7]

Just disregard him.


He's as delusional as they come.

You think gengiskhan is Bryon Russell :

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym1qPs4kbOU

[Legends66NBA7]

:banghead: :banghead: :banghead:

Wow. That's all I can say. Averaging up to 45 ppg for 9 seasons?? Seriously?

Bryon Russell might disagree with you (the Shot Part 2 has probably scared him though):

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym1qPs4kbOU

[The-Legend-24]

MJ Today = Poor mans Tony Allen.

[andgar923]

By the way, 81 points. Want to know a little fact that most people don't know about it ? I am sure the Kobe fans would be delighted to know this as well.

There was a guy named Rafela Aruajo on that Toronto Raptors team that year. He was picked 8th overall in 2004 by Rob Babcock, a man who was probably on the strongest of all hallucinogenic plants, because he drafted Aruajo because the Raptors needed a center. We could have has Andre Iguodala, Josh Smith, J.R. Smith, Kevin Martin, etc... but nope Raptors needed a freak show.


During his sophomore season, the man they called "Hoffa" (probably another lose term for neanderthal) played about 38 games going into the night of the game that Kobe Bean Bryant dropped 81 points. Haffa never played that night. Want to know his total points up to that season in 38 games Mr. Andgar ? 80 points. 80 FREAKING POINTS. I had to laugh at how amazing that was.

Hoffa the G.O.A.T in 38 games: 80
The Bean: 81

That is all. Now i hope the Kobe fans go to bed happy reading that mastery of a tale, that Kobe Bean outscored the TRUE G.O.A.T Hoffa in 1 game. Please go to bed happy you know that now. The more you know.

I sure as hell don't having to watch and remember that team all year long and that was our lone bright moment. This sure as hell wasn't:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QWxYCyijHps

hahah... that's pretty good shit.

[Legends66NBA7]

MJ Today = Poor mans Tony Allen.

Where did that come from ?

And this one too, Kobe = Poor mans Nick Young.

[Legends66NBA7]

hahah... that's pretty good shit.

Screw M.J., this is the G.O.A.T:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HH0TLeAnTBc&feature=related

(Nate got lucky. A fly went in G.O.A.T's eye)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NzI2kqSrBFk

(Got pushed in the back)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=69oKJPMzPEs&feature=related

(Hakeem, Wilt, Russell, Shaq, Kareem.... Take some pointers)

[NumberSix]

If we're talking mid-late 80's Jordan, I seriously have no doubt that's he would average 45-50 PPG on 65% shooting. Not that that he would legit shoot that high of a percentage, but with today's rules they don't count the missed shots when there's a foul. Considering that everything is a foul, he'd probably be getting a good 20-25 points from the line each game.

so yeah, something like 48PPG on what would be claimed to be 11/16 shooting.

[catch24]

:facepalm

The last few pages in this thread have been cringe worthy.

[bdreason]

Prime MJ would average 35 PPG+ on 50%+ in todays league, no doubt about it. Something like 38/7/7 on 50% seems very attainable.

[Legends66NBA7]

:facepalm

The last few pages in this thread have been cringe worthy.

Well i was just joking around with andgar about the whole "Hoffa" thing.

My previous posts were solid, they back up why Jordan could realistically make an attempt @ 40+ppg. This era favors his style of play. Most perimeter players get the majority of their points within 15 feet. Jordan was a quick strike, attack the rim player first, then a mid range shooter. Under today's rules, it would be very difficult to guard/contain Prime Jordan.

[ashlar]

30/6/6 at least, a few seasons over 50% shooting. He would be the best player in the nba for sure but people who are saying he would average 38/8/8 over a season are just being unreasonable.

[catch24]

Well i was just joking around with andgar about the whole "Hoffa" thing.

My previous posts were solid, they back up why Jordan could realistically make an attempt @ 40+ppg. This era favors his style of play. Most perimeter players get the majority of their points within 15 feet. Jordan was a quick strike, attack the rim player first, then a mid range shooter. Under today's rules, it would be very difficult to guard/contain Prime Jordan.

Nah, man.. I wasnt really singling out your posts or anything. This crap about MJ averaging 40 on 50% shooting for MULTIPLE SEASONS is ridiculous, though. There's no way MJ's putting up that type of production on a winning team. :oldlol:

[EricForman]

Jordan fans,

why would you guys start this thread? Just to invite the Kobe trolls (Mr I'm So Rad, Kaiiu, Jacks3, TheLogo, Nick Young, Fatal9, Eliteballer)???????

WHY would you purposely give those clowns room to breath?

[Dragonyeuw]

Depends on the makeup of the team. On a team of scrubs 35-37 points, 6-7 rebounds, 6-7 assists, 3 steals and a block, 50% shooting. Jordan had the driving and finishing ability of a D.Wade, with a better jumpshot in his prime. If Wade can shoot 49% year in, year out, we can extrapolate that Jordan would at least do the same, especially considering that he wasn't a high volume 3pt shooter.

[Rnbizzle]

Pretty much Wade numbers.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Jordan fans,

why would you guys start this thread? Just to invite the Kobe trolls (Mr I'm So Rad, Kaiiu, Jacks3, TheLogo, Nick Young, Fatal9, Eliteballer)???????

WHY would you purposely give those clowns room to breath?

:oldlol: Why are you always on Kobe's dick? Nobody but you even mentioned Kobe in this thread

You have dudes in here saying he would average 42-45 ppg on great efficiency yet you wanna get mad at us laughing at a joke?

Just post your l0ngcat and shut the f*ck up

[guy]

In 2009-2010, Lebron put up 28-30 ppg on 49-50% and shooting 5 3s per game. This while not having anywhere near the jumpshot that Jordan has. In 2006, 2007, and 2009, Wade up 27-30 ppg on 49-50% and shooting 1-4 3s per game. When they were together this past year, Lebron put up 27 ppg on 51% shooting 4 3s per game and Wade put up 26 ppg on 50% shooting 3 3s per game. Jordan IMO would without a doubt be the most efficient perimeter scorer in the league. He had more explosiveness and ability to the get to the rim that Wade and Lebron have, the mid-range game of Kobe, and he didn't have the desire to "go for the kill" and shoot too many 3s. And because of the fact that he was pretty much a Wade/Kobe hybrid, he would be able to create shots for himself better as well.

People don't realize how efficient Lebron is from 2 and how much those 3s that many times he settles for drags his % down. He's shot 55%, 56%, 53%, and 53% from 2 the past 4 years. I'm not sure how Jordan who can get to the rim even better, is a better jumpshooter, and takes better shots in general can't at least replicate that, and then instead of taking 5 3s a games, he takes something like 2 3s a game, and he gets to the line 9-11 times per game.

Lets say on a bad team, he takes 21 2PA per game, 2 3PA per game, 11 FTA per game, and shoots 54% from 2, 33% from 3, and 83% from the line. Thats 33.8 PPG on 52.2 FG%, to go along with 6-7 rpg/6-7 apg/1-1.5 bpg/2.5-3 spg. Lets say on a good team, where he plays with someone like Wade, lets say he takes 18 2PA per game, 2 3PA per game, 9.5 FTA per game, and shoots 56% from 2, 35% from 3, and 83% from the line. Thats 30.2 PPG on 53.9 FG% to go along with 6-7 rpg/5-7 apg/1-1.5 bpg/2.5-3 spg. I could see him doing a little worse on more attempts, slightly worse on the same attempts, or better on the same or more attempts. Basically, I don't really see much of a difference between this and what he did in his own era, and if you breakout the numbers and compare them to who his peers would be and all the similarities and advantages he has over them, its really not that far-fetched.

[catch24]

Jordan fans,

why would you guys start this thread? Just to invite the Kobe trolls (Mr I'm So Rad, Kaiiu, Jacks3, TheLogo, Nick Young, Fatal9, Eliteballer)???????

WHY would you purposely give those clowns room to breath?

Relevance? Check the last few pages out. The Jocker-Hanes gang just destroyed the thread. Posting extraneous garbage (i.e., Rad and Fatal9 being trolls :oldlol:) because you're embarrassed your bois can be equally moronic is yellow-bellied.

[DRose1899]

These 40PPG stuff is really embarrassing :facepalm

Btw my word:

on winning team
30/7/7, playing all around game
35/6/5 if he more pushing in scoring

on shitty team
he might average 37/8/7 or some shit

[Boston C's]

idk why this thread is up... but multiple seasons of jordan averaging 40 is just ridiculous... if he plays on a bad team he could possibly have a 40 ppg season but on a contender I see somethin like 32-34/7/7 maybe more or less with the assists but thats not out of the question... jordan in his absolute peak on a non contender is definitely capable of putting up 40 ppg in a season... not for multiple seasons but for one season its not out of reach like some ppl say

[madmax]

In 2009-2010, Lebron put up 28-30 ppg on 49-50% and shooting 5 3s per game. This while not having anywhere near the jumpshot that Jordan has. In 2006, 2007, and 2009, Wade up 27-30 ppg on 49-50% and shooting 1-4 3s per game. When they were together this past year, Lebron put up 27 ppg on 51% shooting 4 3s per game and Wade put up 26 ppg on 50% shooting 3 3s per game. Jordan IMO would without a doubt be the most efficient perimeter scorer in the league. He had more explosiveness and ability to the get to the rim that Wade and Lebron have, the mid-range game of Kobe, and he didn't have the desire to "go for the kill" and shoot too many 3s. And because of the fact that he was pretty much a Wade/Kobe hybrid, he would be able to create shots for himself better as well.

People don't realize how efficient Lebron is from 2 and how much those 3s that many times he settles for drags his % down. He's shot 55%, 56%, 53%, and 53% from 2 the past 4 years. I'm not sure how Jordan who can get to the rim even better, is a better jumpshooter, and takes better shots in general can't at least replicate that, and then instead of taking 5 3s a games, he takes something like 2 3s a game, and he gets to the line 9-11 times per game.

Lets say on a bad team, he takes 21 2PA per game, 2 3PA per game, 11 FTA per game, and shoots 54% from 2, 33% from 3, and 83% from the line. Thats 33.8 PPG on 52.2 FG%, to go along with 6-7 rpg/6-7 apg/1-1.5 bpg/2.5-3 spg. Lets say on a good team, where he plays with someone like Wade, lets say he takes 18 2PA per game, 2 3PA per game, 9.5 FTA per game, and shoots 56% from 2, 35% from 3, and 83% from the line. Thats 30.2 PPG on 53.9 FG% to go along with 6-7 rpg/5-7 apg/1-1.5 bpg/2.5-3 spg. I could see him doing a little worse on more attempts, slightly worse on the same attempts, or better on the same or more attempts. Basically, I don't really see much of a difference between this and what he did in his own era, and if you breakout the numbers and compare them to who his peers would be and all the similarities and advantages he has over them, its really not that far-fetched.

bullshit like that is why all these nostalgia tards are so annoying to read here...2008-2010 Lebron is the best driver and finisher at the rim of ALL TIME - he has unparalleled strenght, quickness and size to finish over any defense with the highest efficiency. Jordan was a just a scrawny guard compared to him, who relied on acrobatic layups more often than not. How can these stans be taken seriously when overrating past players has become a trend on these boards?:banghead:

[AlphaWolf24]

He could still be a 27 - 30PPG 5REB and 5AST player , but his FG% would take a hit....he would be more along the lines of 44% instead of 49% (his career averages)...zones and traps are much harder to score against then one player with a stiff arm (early 80's one on one defense)

But his skillset translates to any era....

Now as far as team acomplishments.....No way his teams have the same sucess in this era as they did in the watere down 90's...far greater perimeter players and much more wider talent pool in the modern era, would make it tough for him to win 6 Titles...


Just Imagine in 1994 his Bull's team (Without Him) won 55 games and nearly beat the ECChampions....(actually should have beaten them), with Pippen and Pete Myers(CBA ), and a rookie Euro player(while Kukoc was a great player), That would be nearly impossible in this era.



still a great player in any era.....not nearly the same champion though.

[EricForman]

:oldlol: Why are you always on Kobe's dick? Nobody but you even mentioned Kobe in this thread

You have dudes in here saying he would average 42-45 ppg on great efficiency yet you wanna get mad at us laughing at a joke?

Just post your l0ngcat and shut the f*ck up

You mad because you guys are universally regarded as worthless posters? You guys move in packs, and you guys comment on each other's crap threads as is, I dunno why the op started this just to lure you clowns in here.

[AlphaWolf24]

You mad because you guys are universally regarded as worthless posters? You guys move in packs, and you guys comment on each other's crap threads as is, I dunno why the op started this just to lure you clowns in here.



http://blacksportsonline.com/home/wp-content/uploads/2011/03/lebron-cry.jpg

Post your long cat and GTFO!

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

You mad because you guys are universally regarded as worthless posters? You guys move in packs, and you guys comment on each other's crap threads as is, I dunno why the op started this just to lure you clowns in here.

:oldlol: No I'm mad because you do nothing but bitch about "Kobe trolls" even in shit that has NOTHING to do with him.

I laughed at an obvious joke. I didn't mention Kobe anywhere in my original post. Move in packs? LOL. I comment on any thread I want to. It has nothing to with specific players.

You do nothing but stalk anyone who says anything about Kobe just to bitch about them and derail threads about him. That makes you a good poster? Skip me

[guy]

bullshit like that is why all these nostalgia tards are so annoying to read here...2008-2010 Lebron is the best driver and finisher at the rim of ALL TIME - he has unparalleled strenght, quickness and size to finish over any defense with the highest efficiency. Jordan was a just a scrawny guard compared to him, who relied on acrobatic layups more often than not. How can these stans be taken seriously when overrating past players has become a trend on these boards?:banghead:

And this is a clear trend of living in the moment. Jordan is clearly not as strong as Lebron, but he's still one of the strongest wing players ever. On top of that Jordan in his prime was quicker then both Lebron and Wade, and his footwork ability to change direction sh*ts all over Lebron and was better then Wade's as well. And do you know exactly why Jordan was able to take and make those acrobatic layups? Cause he has easily the most ridiculous body control of any player ever. He was able to change his shot in mid-air in a way that Lebron could only dream of. Wade and Rose are the best at this today, and Jordan still shits all over them.

[Inactive]

bullshit like that is why all these nostalgia tards are so annoying to read here...2008-2010 Lebron is the best driver and finisher at the rim of ALL TIME - he has unparalleled strenght, quickness and size to finish over any defense with the highest efficiency. Jordan was a just a scrawny guard compared to him, who relied on acrobatic layups more often than not. How can these stans be taken seriously when overrating past players has become a trend on these boards?:banghead:Jordan DID have more explosiveness, and ability to get to the rim, than Lebron. Lebron is probably a little more efficient, scoring at the basket, but Jordan had a much easier time getting there. I would guess he had 65-70 FG% at the rim, compared to Lebron's 70-73%.

[kaiiu]

lol at Eric****man gettin either'd in this bitch. Post yo Long Cat *******. The pic do you justice since you and the cat both *******

[madmax]

Jordan DID have more explosiveness, and ability to get to the rim, than Lebron. Lebron is probably a little more efficient, scoring at the basket, but Jordan had a much easier time getting there. I would guess he had 65-70 FG% at the rim, compared to Lebron's 70-73%.

Lebron finishes at the rim easier than any other perimeter player in history - fact. Who cares how he gets there if he still converts at the highest rate? Jordan still couldn't finish as well as him because he lacked strenght and size compared to Lebron. End of

[guy]

Lebron finishes at the rim easier than any other perimeter player in history - fact. Who cares how he gets there if he still converts at the highest rate? Jordan still couldn't finish as well as him because he lacked strenght and size compared to Lebron. End of

It matters cause it means he could get there more often, which is true. And I'm not even sure if Lebron converts at a higher rate, but even if he did, its not by that much more. So what do you think is better? Lets say Jordan can get to the rim 11 times per game and convert at 60%, while Lebron can get to the rim 8 times per game and convert at 70%, whats better? And those times they can't get to the rim, and have to settle for a jump shot instead, Jordan clearly converts at a higher rate.

[EricForman]

:oldlol: No I'm mad because you do nothing but bitch about "Kobe trolls" even in shit that has NOTHING to do with him.

I laughed at an obvious joke. I didn't mention Kobe anywhere in my original post. Move in packs? LOL. I comment on any thread I want to. It has nothing to with specific players.

You do nothing but stalk anyone who says anything about Kobe just to bitch about them and derail threads about him. That makes you a good poster? Skip me


You have been skipped. No one ever mentions you but in threads collecting trolls.

You guys do move in packs. Check out the pattern:

AlphaWolf posts a long piece, with some words in bold.

Jacks3 posts a :oldlol: only.

TheLogo posts jibberish two liners.

Then you come in and post something generic and forgettable.

Check every Jordan or Pippen or Kobe thread, you four clowns always posts back to back to back. It's like there's some Kobe alert in ghetto ass El Monte or east LA or something.

And look at you guys respond the same way to me too.

"post your l ong cat ph*ggot" All four of you guys said slight variations of the same thing.

:oldlol: you guys are mad. Damn I've been here for 6 years and I've never seen you trolls that frustrated by a photo. whoever created l0ngcat might have saved ISH.

[madmax]

It matters cause it means he could get there more often, which is true. And I'm not even sure if Lebron converts at a higher rate, but even if he did, its not by that much more. So what do you think is better? Lets say Jordan can get to the rim 11 times per game and convert at 60%, while Lebron can get to the rim 8 times per game and convert at 70%, whats better? And those times they can't get to the rim, and have to settle for a jump shot instead, Jordan clearly converts at a higher rate.

You mean to tell me that 08-10 Lebron lacked ability to get to the rim?:lol What games were you watching pal? He was literally wrecking all defenses with his drives, forcing other teams to tripple team him in hopes of Cavs role players' missing wide open jumpers. I guess I'm not really following you here buddy...

[juju151111]

He could still be a 27 - 30PPG 5REB and 5AST player , but his FG% would take a hit....he would be more along the lines of 44% instead of 49% (his career averages)...zones and traps are much harder to score against then one player with a stiff arm (early 80's one on one defense)

But his skillset translates to any era....

Now as far as team acomplishments.....No way his teams have the same sucess in this era as they did in the watere down 90's...far greater perimeter players and much more wider talent pool in the modern era, would make it tough for him to win 6 Titles...


Just Imagine in 1994 his Bull's team (Without Him) won 55 games and nearly beat the ECChampions....(actually should have beaten them), with Pippen and Pete Myers(CBA ), and a rookie Euro player(while Kukoc was a great player), That would be nearly impossible in this era.



still a great player in any era.....not nearly the same champion though.
:facepalm

[clipps]

Honestly, when someone states that Jordan in his prime could average 45 PPG in a single season or 40 ppg in multiple seasons, it's understandable why people get riled up whether they are Kobe/Bron stans or not. With that said, Jordan's combination of basketball IQ, skills, determination, motivation, killer-instinct, etc. is unmatched. As stated at the beginning of the thread, MJ at 38-40 abused the same players that can put up a good defensive fight at 8-10 years later against prime Wade, prime LeBron, and somewhat past prime-Kobe. That alone goes to show how great MJ was and Kobe, Wade, and Lebron don't come close. They are great with Kobe being the best of the 3 imo, but neither one will touch Jordan in terms of greatness.

40 PPG in one season MAYBE 2 seasons in today's league for a prime 22-26 year old Jordan would be obtainable if he wanted to. I can see him averaging at least 35 ppg for multiple seasons. Then again, I'm just a Clipper fan. My opinion is invalid.

[guy]

You mean to tell me that 08-10 Lebron lacked ability to get to the rim?:lol What games were you watching pal? He was literally wrecking all defenses with his drives, forcing other teams to tripple team him in hopes of Cavs role players' missing wide open jumpers. I guess I'm not really following you here buddy...

Huh? Where did I say he didn't? I said Jordan was better at it. Not that Lebron couldn't. They're both clearly 2 of the greatest at it, if not the greatest.

[EricForman]

Honestly, when someone states that Jordan in his prime could average 45 PPG in a single season or 40 ppg in multiple seasons, it's understandable why people get riled up whether they are Kobe/Bron stans or not.


But, aside from Genghis, no one really claimed that. The "Jordan stans" like juju and oldschoolbball put realistic estimates.

Embellishing things and straight out twisting facts is what these Kobe trolls do.

[BlackJoker23]

lol at Eric****man gettin either'd in this bitch. Post yo Long Cat *******. The pic do you justice since you and the cat both *******
this. top 5 ******* on this board

[Legends66NBA7]

Okay i know this isn't stone cold facts, but why do these guys all believe Jordan would at least drop a season over 40+ today or have major high scoring games ?:

-Phil Jackson: 45ppg today with thse rules
-Scottie Pippen: He would average 40-50ppg and could score 100
-Larry Brown: If Jordan played today he would average 50ppg
-Tim Grover: If he were playing now, with the way the refs call everything, and with all the padding these guys wear, he'd average 40 or 50 a night if he wanted.
-Craig Hodges: M.J. could score 100 points in this era. You can't hand-check now. Imagine that trying to guard M.J. It would be crazy.
-Bryon Russell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym1qPs4kbOU

Again, why do they all strongly believe he could drop that many and average that for at least a season, if the desire was there ?

[DRose1899]

But, aside from Genghis, no one really claimed that. The "Jordan stans" like juju and oldschoolbball put realistic estimates.

Embellishing things and straight out twisting facts is what these Kobe trolls do.
I'm seeing 2-3 other poster posting same shiet :facepalm

And yeah, I do seeing you from out of nowhere calling these so called kobe "troll" :rolleyes:

And if they're troll, what are you, justice police? butthurt?

[Lebron23]

34 ppg on a very good team

38 ppg on an average team

40 ppg on a very bad team

[BlackJoker23]

Okay i know this isn't stone cold facts, but why do these guys all believe Jordan would at least drop a season over 40+ today or have major high scoring games ?:

-Phil Jackson: 45ppg today with thse rules
-Scottie Pippen: He would average 40-50ppg and could score 100
-Larry Brown: If Jordan played today he would average 50ppg
-Tim Grover: If he were playing now, with the way the refs call everything, and with all the padding these guys wear, he'd average 40 or 50 a night if he wanted.
-Craig Hodges: M.J. could score 100 points in this era. You can't hand-check now. Imagine that trying to guard M.J. It would be crazy.
-Bryon Russell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym1qPs4kbOU

Again, why do they all strongly believe he could drop that many and average that for at least a season, if the desire was there ?
whose gimmick is this guy?seems like a delusional jordan jocker:facepalm

[Boston C's]

Okay i know this isn't stone cold facts, but why do these guys all believe Jordan would at least drop a season over 40+ today or have major high scoring games ?:

-Phil Jackson: 45ppg today with thse rules
-Scottie Pippen: He would average 40-50ppg and could score 100
-Larry Brown: If Jordan played today he would average 50ppg
-Tim Grover: If he were playing now, with the way the refs call everything, and with all the padding these guys wear, he'd average 40 or 50 a night if he wanted.
-Craig Hodges: M.J. could score 100 points in this era. You can't hand-check now. Imagine that trying to guard M.J. It would be crazy.
-Bryon Russell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym1qPs4kbOU

Again, why do they all strongly believe he could drop that many and average that for at least a season, if the desire was there ?

don't bother kobe stans dont care... kobe has said that jordan is the greatest player in the game and they find a way around that... they dont care what ppl who know what they are talking about say

[DRose1899]

Okay i know this isn't stone cold facts, but why do these guys all believe Jordan would at least drop a season over 40+ today or have major high scoring games ?:

-Phil Jackson: 45ppg today with thse rules
-Scottie Pippen: He would average 40-50ppg and could score 100
-Larry Brown: If Jordan played today he would average 50ppg
-Tim Grover: If he were playing now, with the way the refs call everything, and with all the padding these guys wear, he'd average 40 or 50 a night if he wanted.
-Craig Hodges: M.J. could score 100 points in this era. You can't hand-check now. Imagine that trying to guard M.J. It would be crazy.
-Bryon Russell: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ym1qPs4kbOU

Again, why do they all strongly believe he could drop that many and average that for at least a season, if the desire was there ?
The simple thing is

From where this 35-45 possession per game that Jordan need to average 40-50 PPG come?

We're in era that getting fewer and fewer possession in game, do his teammate are gonna just pass him n nothing else if Jordan playing in this era?

No one gonna average 40PPG or something in modern bball game, unless he shooting 60-65% n that's almost impossible.

[kaiiu]

Jordan couldnt even average 40 PPG in a era where the " most physical and best defensive team" gave up more points than one of the worst defensive and soft team this decade in the Nash/Dirk era Mavs. Not to mention the high pace of the 80s. Tony Allen on his best day imo

[Boston C's]

Jordan couldnt even average 40 PPG in a era where the " most physical and best defensive team" gave up more points than one of the worst defensive and soft team this decade in the Nash/Dirk era Mavs. Not to mention the high pace of the 80s. Tony Allen on his best day imo

congrats i think you just cracked the top 10 GOAT trolls list with that post :rockon:

[Legends66NBA7]

The simple thing is

From where this 35-45 possession per game that Jordan need to average 40-50 PPG come?

We're in era that getting fewer and fewer possession in game, do his teammate are gonna just pass him n nothing else if Jordan playing in this era?

Like i said, it would have to be on a bad team if he's getting the numbers.

Possessions ? Let's take a look at some examples @ "slower pace":

-Kobe Bryant averaged about 35 on 27 shots.
-Allen Iverson averaged about 33 on 25 shots, 31 on 27 shots.
- LeBron James averaged about 31 on 23 shots.
-Dwyane Wade averaged about 30 on 22 shots.

Now in "faster pace"/more possessions:

-Michael Jordan averaged about 37 on 28 shots, 35 on 24 shots, 33 on 24 shots, 32 on 25 shots.

Why do they all shoot around the similar amount of shots, even though Jordan played with more possessions ?

Again, it's efficiency in the scoring that matters most. And Jordan's efficiency trumps the 4 players i mentioned above. That's why he would thrive even more today. The game favors his style even more than the past era's did. It's not unreasonable to think that he would hit 40+... but on a bad team.

[Legends66NBA7]

don't bother kobe stans dont care... kobe has said that jordan is the greatest player in the game and they find a way around that... they dont care what ppl who know what they are talking about say

I suppose. I mean, i thought that what the people who coached with him/against him, played with him/against him and his former trainer would be enough reasoning.

[Legends66NBA7]

whose gimmick is this guy?seems like a delusional jordan jocker:facepalm

This is my only account here.

Any comment on the quotes ? Some of those are from Phil Jackson, Scottie Pippen, and Larry Brown. All who saw Jordan play. Go facepalm at them if you feel that way.

[EricForman]

I'm seeing 2-3 other poster posting same shiet :facepalm

And yeah, I do seeing you from out of nowhere calling these so called kobe "troll" :rolleyes:

And if they're troll, what are you, justice police? butthurt?

I'm a legit poster who likes real basketball discussions, so I despise trolls and have found a way to get them riled up now with one simple pic.

In other threads, I actually talk basketball, but against those clowns? Naw, man, no need.

Two to three? At the time of my posting only Genghis claimed "over 40 points for multiple seasons". A second guy has since joined in on that claim. That's still two.

And for reals, claiming Jordan could do 40 is still significantly more realistic than "just another Tony Allen" that the troll pack posted first. What, you missed that?

Look around the board and you'll soon see that many on ISH share my view of the pack.

Regardless, you're wrong on the "2-3 guys have posted that bit".

[Boston C's]

I suppose. I mean, i thought that what the people who coached with him/against him, played with him/against him and his former trainer would be enough reasoning.

I agree... but somehow for them if its talking about kobe in a negative light then their opinions dont matter and they just dont know what they are talking about

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

You have been skipped. No one ever mentions you but in threads collecting trolls.

You guys do move in packs. Check out the pattern:

AlphaWolf posts a long piece, with some words in bold.

Jacks3 posts a :oldlol: only.

TheLogo posts jibberish two liners.

Then you come in and post something generic and forgettable.

Check every Jordan or Pippen or Kobe thread, you four clowns always posts back to back to back. It's like there's some Kobe alert in ghetto ass El Monte or east LA or something.

And look at you guys respond the same way to me too.

"post your l ong cat ph*ggot" All four of you guys said slight variations of the same thing.

:oldlol: you guys are mad. Damn I've been here for 6 years and I've never seen you trolls that frustrated by a photo. whoever created l0ngcat might have saved ISH.


My point is this whole thing started because you got so butthurt at Fatal9 posting an obvious joke and I laughed at it. LOL dude it's the internet and it's a joke. Quit being so weak

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

I agree... but somehow for them if its talking about kobe in a negative light then their opinions dont matter and they just dont know what they are talking about

It isn't talking about Kobe in a negative light. What Jordan would do today in his prime has nothing to do with Kobe.

I just said him averaging 40+ ppg on 50%+ shooting is absurd. He wouldn't get that many good looks. Yes I understand that some of his peers think very highly of him and believe he would do it, but I don't. Hell Charles Barkley didn't even play with prime Kobe and thinks he is Top 5 all time :oldlol: Yes it's Barkley but still...just because someone who played with him says it doesn't necessarily validate it imo.

Jordan was very very great but he's still human. He could shotjack and get 40 but that's not his style

[EricForman]

My point is this whole thing started because you got so butthurt at Fatal9 posting an obvious joke and I laughed at it. LOL dude it's the internet and it's a joke. Quit being so weak

No this whole thing started because I was actually calling out the OP for starting a pointless, somewhat dumb thread.

Then you guys started hurling 4th grade insults at me because you guys are mad about l ongcat. Like I said, you guys are frustrated there's a way to counter blatantly wrong pro-Kobe or anti-Jordan threads :oldlol:.

Even the mods let me do it because they know I only do it to stupid threads started by the five clown posters.

[Boston C's]

It isn't talking about Kobe in a negative light. What Jordan would do today in his prime has nothing to do with Kobe.

I just said him averaging 40+ ppg on 50%+ shooting is absurd. He wouldn't get that many good looks. Yes I understand that some of his peers think very highly of him and believe he would do it, but I don't. Hell Charles Barkley didn't even play with prime Kobe and thinks he is Top 5 all time :oldlol: Yes it's Barkley but still...just because someone who played with him says it doesn't necessarily validate it imo.

Jordan was very very great but he's still human. He could shotjack and get 40 but that's not his style

with the kobe trolls it is though... if you say anything negative about kobe they attack you... i dont think your a troll i know your a fan of kobe and theres a huge difference between troll and fan... but for the kobe troll if you say anything negative at all about kobe then they just say your a hater which is crazy (unless actually warranted but sometimes it isnt) as for what I bolded I think that jordan in his peak could get 40 a game in a season NOT multiple but on a bad team to which he would be allowed to shot jack like in the 86-87 season... on a contender it wont happen though

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

No this whole thing started because I was actually calling out the OP for starting a pointless, somewhat dumb thread.
Then you guys started hurling 4th grade insults at me because you guys are mad about l ongcat. Like I said, you guys are all mad there's a way to counter stupid Kobe threads :oldlol:.

Even the mods let me do it because they know I only do it to sh*t threads started by the five clown posters.

Look at your first post in this thread. You start talking about Kobe trolls this, Kobe trolls that.

And :oldlol: @ 4th grade insults
It's like there's some Kobe alert in ghetto ass El Monte or east L.A. or something

And you say there's a way to counter stupid Kobe threads, but nowhere in the OP was Kobe mentioned :oldlol: Nowhere. The thread was about what Jordan would do in today's game

[kaiiu]

Radric, ignore her

[DMAVS41]

The simple thing is

From where this 35-45 possession per game that Jordan need to average 40-50 PPG come?

We're in era that getting fewer and fewer possession in game, do his teammate are gonna just pass him n nothing else if Jordan playing in this era?

No one gonna average 40PPG or something in modern bball game, unless he shooting 60-65% n that's almost impossible.


This is simply not true. So its reasonable that an older Allen Iverson could score 33 a game on 25 shots but you are laughing off the notion of prime MJ averaging 40?

Is it likely? Of course not, but its definitely possible. If MJ took 29 shots a game its absolutely possible. Hell, Kobe scored 35.4 on 27 shots and shot 45% from the field.

Put prime MJ in the 06 season with those joke rules and he destroys the league in terms of scoring if he wants to.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Radric, ignore her

I'm done bra. I've exceeded my daily amount of argument posts

[EricForman]

Look at your first post in this thread. You start talking about Kobe trolls this, Kobe trolls that.

And :oldlol: @ 4th grade insults

And you say there's a way to counter stupid Kobe threads, but nowhere in the OP was Kobe mentioned :oldlol: Nowhere. The thread was about what Jordan would do in today's game

But you guys are known Kobe trolls, and your agendas are well known. I mean, what, I'm the only one on ISH who dislikes the Jacks3 and Eliteballers and the kaiuus? There's a thread about trolling and their names are all over the place.

Stop playing dumb, you know what their agenda was. The guy who claimed Jordan would top 40 didn't even come in till page 3. Juju and Oldschool were posting reasonable numbers, you guys mad anyway. :confusedshrug:

And again, only one guy claimed 40, but you guys twisted it to "claiming jordan could do 45 points for multiple seasons" huh? You guys find an excuse and blow someone's Jordan's admiration out of proportion to give off the impression they're "Jordan stans".

Don't get mad at me beacuse you guys got dumbass reputations and I shut down the clown threads. No one else is complaining but you guys.

That mad over a pic of a cat. Calling me a "*******" :oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

It isn't talking about Kobe in a negative light. What Jordan would do today in his prime has nothing to do with Kobe.

I just said him averaging 40+ ppg on 50%+ shooting is absurd. He wouldn't get that many good looks. Yes I understand that some of his peers think very highly of him and believe he would do it, but I don't. Hell Charles Barkley didn't even play with prime Kobe and thinks he is Top 5 all time :oldlol: Yes it's Barkley but still...just because someone who played with him says it doesn't necessarily validate it imo.

Jordan was very very great but he's still human. He could shotjack and get 40 but that's not his style

Yes you are right in that sense. He would want to win more than anything.

However if he's on a team with a terrible supporting cast, it's not absurd to think that he wouldn't do it for one season.

The game today favors perimeter players. No big man camps in the lane. It's less resistence on the perimeter. Jordan loves to attack the basket first and then hit mid range shots. And to top it all of his high efficiency in his prime.

Pace factor is invalid because he could still get those same number shots of in a fast or slow pace.

And i haven't even brought up this point. It's Michael Jordan. Wouldn't the refs today give him more beneficeray calls ? How many touch fouls does he get today with his style of play and his marquee name value ? It would be a lot easier to score.

However, i do agree that on a bad team he would be trying to go for the points. But his efficiency would be the reason that he would capatilize on more of those possessions.

[Legends66NBA7]

[/B]

This is simply not true. So its reasonable that an older Allen Iverson could score 33 a game on 25 shots but you are laughing off the notion of prime MJ averaging 40?

Is it likely? Of course not, but its definitely possible. If MJ took 29 shots a game its absolutely possible. Hell, Kobe scored 35.4 on 27 shots and shot 45% from the field.

Put prime MJ in the 06 season with those joke rules and he destroys the league in terms of scoring if he wants to.

Yes exactly, thank you. Refer to my post, i pretty much said what you said, DMAVS41.

[DRose1899]

Like i said, it would have to be on a bad team if he's getting the numbers.

Possessions ? Let's take a look at some examples @ "slower pace":

-Kobe Bryant averaged about 35 on 27 shots.
-Allen Iverson averaged about 33 on 25 shots, 31 on 27 shots.
- LeBron James averaged about 31 on 23 shots.
-Dwyane Wade averaged about 30 on 22 shots.

Now in "faster pace"/more possessions:

-Michael Jordan averaged about 37 on 28 shots, 35 on 24 shots, 33 on 24 shots, 32 on 25 shots.

See?
28 friggin shot!

Will Jordan got anymore than that now or in any era beside 60's?

And Jordan actually not liking forcing bad shot too much.. so its unlikely he goes batshit n goes more than that.

Btw let just say Jordan shoot 30 FGAPG and shooting 50% (and he rarely shooting 3s, the better range shooter version of jordan is less dominating, so its kinda pointless too to consider that version) and have FTA as much as Dwight (lol) 11FTA and shooting 85%, that still not cracking 40PPG!

[senelcoolidge]

Some of these questions are silly. In today's league he would dominate even more. Not much more to say. He would make the stars of today look small, sort of like what he did when he played.

[Legends66NBA7]

See?
28 friggin shot!

Will Jordan got anymore than that now or in any era beside 60's?

And Jordan actually not liking forcing bad shot too much.. so its unlikely he goes batshit n goes more than that.

Btw let just say Jordan shoot 30 FGAPG and shooting 50% (and he rarely shooting 3s, the better range shooter version of jordan is less dominating, so its kinda pointless too to consider that version) and have FTA as much as Dwight (lol) 11FTA and shooting 85%, that still not cracking 40PPG!


Yes and Iverson and Kobe took only 1 shot less, in a "slower pace/less possession" era. Jordan still scored more than them.

Jordan wouldn't force a bad shot because he would be attacking the basket as much as possible, if not, he would go the mid range game. And nobody is going to put up the physical resistence for that. He wouldn't have to break a sweat most times because he would also get more calls due to his style of play. And his efficiency would warrant more touches.

Again, on a bad team, who's to say he wouldn't get that many shots ? And free throws ? He's averaged 12 of them once, don't know why you are laughing about that. And again, in today's game, everything favors perimeter players and refs call a lot of touch fouls. There is no presence in the paint because of the 3 second defensive rule.

Jordan scoring 40+ppg is not as absurd as people think. He would dominate today's game that clearly cater's towards perimeter players.

[guy]

In 2009-2010, Lebron put up 28-30 ppg on 49-50% and shooting 5 3s per game. This while not having anywhere near the jumpshot that Jordan has. In 2006, 2007, and 2009, Wade up 27-30 ppg on 49-50% and shooting 1-4 3s per game. When they were together this past year, Lebron put up 27 ppg on 51% shooting 4 3s per game and Wade put up 26 ppg on 50% shooting 3 3s per game. Jordan IMO would without a doubt be the most efficient perimeter scorer in the league. He had more explosiveness and ability to the get to the rim that Wade and Lebron have, the mid-range game of Kobe, and he didn't have the desire to "go for the kill" and shoot too many 3s. And because of the fact that he was pretty much a Wade/Kobe hybrid, he would be able to create shots for himself better as well.

People don't realize how efficient Lebron is from 2 and how much those 3s that many times he settles for drags his % down. He's shot 55%, 56%, 53%, and 53% from 2 the past 4 years. I'm not sure how Jordan who can get to the rim even better, is a better jumpshooter, and takes better shots in general can't at least replicate that, and then instead of taking 5 3s a games, he takes something like 2 3s a game, and he gets to the line 9-11 times per game.

Lets say on a bad team, he takes 21 2PA per game, 2 3PA per game, 11 FTA per game, and shoots 54% from 2, 33% from 3, and 83% from the line. Thats 33.8 PPG on 52.2 FG%, to go along with 6-7 rpg/6-7 apg/1-1.5 bpg/2.5-3 spg. Lets say on a good team, where he plays with someone like Wade, lets say he takes 18 2PA per game, 2 3PA per game, 9.5 FTA per game, and shoots 56% from 2, 35% from 3, and 83% from the line. Thats 30.2 PPG on 53.9 FG% to go along with 6-7 rpg/5-7 apg/1-1.5 bpg/2.5-3 spg. I could see him doing a little worse on more attempts, slightly worse on the same attempts, or better on the same or more attempts. Basically, I don't really see much of a difference between this and what he did in his own era, and if you breakout the numbers and compare them to who his peers would be and all the similarities and advantages he has over them, its really not that far-fetched.

Just wanted to repost this. Like I said, compare him to his peers and breakdown the numbers and how it would be made up. Its not really not far-fetched at all for him to put up the around the same numbers he did before.

[jlip]

I'm not really concerned about scoring. Scoring is basically the result of how many shots one takes, but I am somewhat baffled by people who are saying that MJ's asts and rebs would increase in this era. To me that makes no sense at all. He only had one season in his 13 year career with the Bulls that he crossed 7 rbs and/ or asts, and that was the '89. Those were some very unique and exclusive circumstances. He was asked to play pg for over a 1/3 of the season and also had a string of triple doubles that was a total aberration from anything else he had ever done at any other point in his career. He actually had more than half of his career triple doubles in that one season alone.

In a slower league today that avg. significantly fewer assists and slightly fewer rebounds I fail to see how those two stats would increase at all. Without playing in a system that told him to literally run pg, I don't see him peaking with anymore than 6.5 apg (probably be around 5.1-5.6 for most of his career) and no more than 6.9 rpg (probably be around 5.8-6.3 for most of his career.

[andgar923]

Yes and Iverson and Kobe took only 1 shot less, in a "slower pace/less possession" era. Jordan still scored more than them.

Jordan wouldn't force a bad shot because he would be attacking the basket as much as possible, if not, he would go the mid range game. And nobody is going to put up the physical resistence for that. He wouldn't have to break a sweat most times because he would also get more calls due to his style of play. And his efficiency would warrant more touches.

Again, on a bad team, who's to say he wouldn't get that many shots ? And free throws ? He's averaged 12 of them once, don't know why you are laughing about that. And again, in today's game, everything favors perimeter players and refs call a lot of touch fouls. There is no presence in the paint because of the 3 second defensive rule.

Jordan scoring 40+ppg is not as absurd as people think. He would dominate today's game that clearly cater's towards perimeter players.

Exactly.

People always try to say "oh. he wouldn't do that because..... " but there's many factors in today's game that back up our posts.

And again..... it isn't just us saying this. It's also players, experts, coaches, officials, etc.etc. people that have played the game in both eras, people that have been involved in the game in both eras. Some of today's fans simply can't fathom or understand that YES he was that good.

And again.... people forget that when Wizards MJ was well rested, he was able to dominate on high efficiency. Not only was he in his late 30s he was playing HURT something that people seem to forget. And while no player truly feels 100%, playing at 75% (at best) at the age of 39 is not the same as playing 75% at the age of 29 years old. People seem to overlook these factors, and don't understand its significance.

In today's era, MJ would play almost every minute, drive relentlessly, get boatloads of ft attempts, and finish better than any of the top perimeter players in the league. Whatever MJ averaged in his highest statistical seasons just add more to that. Mj averaging 40 pts per game for a few seasons here and there is not a joke. Specially when he was feeling relatively well as a Wizard and I believe averaged around 30 pts for the month (I know he did that for the week a few times).

[andgar923]

I'm not really concerned about scoring. Scoring is basically the result of how many shots one takes, but I am somewhat baffled by people who are saying that MJ's asts and rebs would increase in this era. To me that makes no sense at all. He only had one season in his 13 year career with the Bulls that he crossed 7 rbs and/ or asts, and that was the '89. Those were some very unique and exclusive circumstances. He was asked to play pg for over a 1/3 of the season and also had a string of triple doubles that was a total aberration from anything else he had ever done at any other point in his career. He actually had more than half of his career triple doubles in that one season alone.

In a slower league today that avg. significantly fewer assists and slightly fewer rebounds I fail to see how those two stats would increase at all. Without playing in a system that told him to literally run pg, I don't see him peaking with anymore than 6.5 apg (probably be around 5.1-5.6 for most of his career) and no more than 6.9 rpg (probably be around 5.8-6.3 for most of his career.

this is fair and reasonable.

I'm assuming most people are using Bron as an example. But Bron is in a unique position. If MJ were to avg that many points, his assists would go down. Having said that, the interpretation of what's considered an assist has changed since MJ's time. What is considered an assist today, wouldn't be considered an assist back then, so today's interpretation favors passers. Rebounds may also be easier to get since the league isn't as physical. And with more long range shots attempted, it only creates more rebound opportunities for perimeter players than in the past. So considering these factors, it is a chance that MJ can average 7 assists and rebounds, which isn't too far off the predictions... at least for a season or two.

[guy]

I'm not really concerned about scoring. Scoring is basically the result of how many shots one takes,

Its also the result of how many shots a player has the ability to take.

[jlip]

Its also the result of how many shots a player has the ability to take.

Of course, but let's be real, it's more closely related to the number he's willing to take. There is a reason MJ scored 37ppg in '87 but only 30ppg in '92. He was willing to take more shots in '87. There is a reason Kobe scored 35ppg in '06 but only 31ppg the next season. He took more shots in '06. Yes there will be a few exceptions here and there, but the general rule is the more shots a scorer takes, the more points he scores.

[guy]

Of course, but let's be real, it's more closely related to the number he's willing to take. There is a reason MJ scored 37ppg in '87 but only 30ppg in '92. He was willing to take more shots in '87. There is a reason Kobe scored 35ppg in '06 but only 31ppg the next season. He took more shots in '06. Yes there will be a few exceptions here and there, but the general rule is the more shots a scorer takes, the more points he scores.

Of course, but not everyone is able to take 20-30 shots per game and score at an efficient rate. The number that a player is willing to take is more closely related to how many good shots a player can actually take. For example, Thaddeus Young shot 54% taking 10 shots per game last year. If he was going to take 20 shots per game instead, he probably doesnt get even close to that.

[OldSchoolBBall]

I'm not really concerned about scoring. Scoring is basically the result of how many shots one takes, but I am somewhat baffled by people who are saying that MJ's asts and rebs would increase in this era. To me that makes no sense at all. He only had one season in his 13 year career with the Bulls that he crossed 7 rbs and/ or asts, and that was the '89. Those were some very unique and exclusive circumstances. He was asked to play pg for over a 1/3 of the season and also had a string of triple doubles that was a total aberration from anything else he had ever done at any other point in his career. He actually had more than half of his career triple doubles in that one season alone.

In a slower league today that avg. significantly fewer assists and slightly fewer rebounds I fail to see how those two stats would increase at all. Without playing in a system that told him to literally run pg, I don't see him peaking with anymore than 6.5 apg (probably be around 5.1-5.6 for most of his career) and no more than 6.9 rpg (probably be around 5.8-6.3 for most of his career.

We're not assuming that he's playing in the triangle, where his apg numbers were depressed, or playing alongside another 6+ apg player (Pippen) like he did. Also, the reality of today's defenses and star-centric offenses is that many times the defense forces you to create for others. Lastly, regarding rebounding, there are far fewer elite rebounders today than there were in MJ's day, and less size/skill inside the lane at the PF and especially the C positions. Jordan also played with far more rebounding talent than Lebron did, and still regularly put up ~6.5 rpg. I should also note that, despite my post here, I only originally claimed 6.5 reb/6+ ast for MJ, not 7+/7+ (however, see below for a caveat).

I'm also assuming that he plays the same style he did back then (i.e., is no more ball dominant than he was). If he played a Lebron/Wade style ball dominant role, his numbers would be astronomical (32 pts/7 reb/9 ast minimum).

[BlackJoker23]

We're not assuming that he's playing in the triangle, where his apg numbers were depressed, or playing alongside another 6+ apg player (Pippen) like he did. Also, the reality of today's defenses and star-centric offenses is that many times the defense forces you to create for others. Lastly, regarding rebounding, there are far fewer elite rebounders today than there were in MJ's day, and less size/skill inside the lane at the PF and especially the C positions. Jordan also played with far more rebounding talent than Lebron did, and still regularly put up ~6.5 rpg. I should also note that, despite my post here, I only originally claimed 6.5 reb/6+ ast for MJ, not 7+/7+ (however, see below for a caveat).

I'm also assuming that he plays the same style he did back then (i.e., is no more ball dominant than he was). If he played a Lebron/Wade style ball dominant role, his numbers would be astronomical (32 pts/7 reb/9 ast minimum).
his rebounds would increase with a more ball dominant role?:facepalm
what the phuck are you smoking?

[rodman91]

+5 ppg min.

[OldSchoolBBall]

his rebounds would increase with a more ball dominant role?:facepalm
what the phuck are you smoking?

No, as I said:


Lastly, regarding rebounding, there are far fewer elite rebounders today than there were in MJ's day, and less size/skill inside the lane at the PF and especially the C positions. Jordan also played with far more rebounding talent than Lebron did, and still regularly put up ~6.5 rpg

Learn to read.

[Clippersfan86]

I watched like 50+ regular season games a season of the Wizards when Jordan was on that team. It was so amazing watching a 37-40 year old Jordan school people like that. I love how he carried a scrub team to the playoffs and made everyone around him even better. I loved his squad with Popeye, Laettner, Rip Hamilton, Brendan Haywood, Etan Thomas, Tyrone Lue and Stack. Very memorable group. Plus those 40 and 50 point games at that age were :eek: . It was also awesome because players would try to take it easy on him out of respect of his legend.. and he would talk trash and go hard at them anyways and drop 30. There will never be another Jordan.

[Clippersfan86]

The thing that REALLY separates Jordan from every other player in NBA history if you look closely is WHEN he dominated. All of Jordan's best games were against rivals, in important games (playoffs for example) or in statement games. They were never out of the blue against bad teams like Kobe's 81 against the Raptors. I mean even look at Jordan's return to Cleveland when he played for the Wizards. He burns that team up and then hits the game winner?? How vintage is that?

Michael was special because his best moments were the most important ones. The most dramatic ones. This is why when people try to say Wilt>Jordan etc... I shake my head. Jordan not only had sustained dominance but he always came through when it mattered most. On intangibles he's got every player in league history beat by a good margin.

[Clippersfan86]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pjo06p5zchg&feature=related

Look at how pissed Marbury is after Michael hits the last game winner of his career :oldlol: :oldlol: .

[Dave3]

I watched like 50+ regular season games a season of the Wizards when Jordan was on that team. It was so amazing watching a 37-40 year old Jordan school people like that. I love how he carried a scrub team to the playoffs and made everyone around him even better. I loved his squad with Popeye, Laettner, Rip Hamilton, Brendan Haywood, Etan Thomas, Tyrone Lue and Stack. Very memorable group. Plus those 40 and 50 point games at that age were :eek: . It was also awesome because players would try to take it easy on him out of respect of his legend.. and he would talk trash and go hard at them anyways and drop 30. There will never be another Jordan.
He didn't make the playoffs with that team. I agree wholeheartedly though, he was playing like he was as good as most of these stars are when they reach 33 or 34 years old. I suppose a huge advantage of it though was taking seasons off.

[Clippersfan86]

He didn't make the playoffs with that team. I agree wholeheartedly though, he was playing like he was as good as most of these stars are when they reach 33 or 34 years old. I suppose a huge advantage of it though was taking seasons off.

Ah damnit. I could of sworn they made it once, but you are right. Either way the rest of what I said stands true. The awesome thing was him getting a standing ovation at the end of every last visit to an opposing teams arena in his final season. Doubt another player will ever again effect opposing fans/teams like that. I mean his game winner in Cleveland "The shot 3" the entire Cleveland crowd burst into cheers as if it was their own player. Funny thing is a few opposing players got mad like Allen Iverson because of how much attention Jordan got in their arena. Did you know in his first season back he was one of 2 players averaging 25, 5 and 5 in the NBA before the all star game? I find that really amazing for a 38 year old!

[rodman91]

Ah damnit. I could of sworn they made it once, but you are right. Either way the rest of what I said stands true. The awesome thing was him getting a standing ovation at the end of every last visit to an opposing teams arena in his final season. Doubt another player will ever again effect opposing fans/teams like that. I mean his game winner in Cleveland "The shot 3" the entire Cleveland crowd burst into cheers as if it was their own player. Funny thing is a few opposing players got mad like Allen Iverson because of how much attention Jordan got in their arena. Did you know in his first season back he was one of 2 players averaging 25, 5 and 5 in the NBA before the all star game? I find that really amazing for a 38 year old!

38-39 years old version schooled prime Garnett, so its scary what would happen if a prime Jordan in today's league.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmngcHYnfN0

[Clippersfan86]

38-39 years old version schooled prime Garnett, so its scary what would happen if a prime Jordan in today's league.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmngcHYnfN0

:bowdown:

[Kobe 4 The Win]

Jordan would be shitting on the league the same as he did back then. Maybe worse.

[D-Wade316]

36.8 ppg
6.7 rpg
5.8 apg
2.3 spg
1.2 bpg
3.1 tov
2.8 pf
51.8 fg%
85.1 ft%
31.1 3pt%
59.2 TS%
53.5 eFG%
39.5 mpg

[Soundwave]

Jordan (circa 1996) on the current Bulls would be interesting.

C- Noah
PF- Boozer
SF- Deng
SG- Jordan
PG- Rose

That's a championship team. Might even be slightly better offensively than the actual '96 Bulls (not defensively though Noah > Longley, and while Deng is no Pippen, he's no slouch either, Boozer is the weak link).

I don't think he'd aim for 36 ppg or anything crazy like that though.

Keep it steady at 31-32 ppg, Rose would probably have to distribute more though.