Healthy/Peak Bill Walton vs Peak Hakeem Olajuwon

[1987_Lakers]

Hakeem obviously was more athletic & a better scorer, Walton was the more fundamentally sound player being the better passer & rebounder. Who's the better center?

http://i30.tinypic.com/hwmzwo.jpg
http://www.gifsoup.com/webroot/animatedgifs2/1468239_o.gif

[D.J.]

Hakeem was the better overall defender. At 32, he contained 23 year old Shaq. Not many can claim that.

[ThaSwagg3r]

Hakeem was the better overall defender. At 32, he contained 23 year old Shaq. Not many can claim that.
:facepalm Dream didn't contain Shaq at all.

[D.J.]

:facepalm Dream didn't contain Shaq at all.


You didn't watch the series. I did. Shaq had 5 fouls in 3 of the 4 games and Hakeem shut him down in the clutch. Shaq may have put up the numbers, but Hakeem kept in check by drawing fouls. Shaq even said he didn't outplay Hakeem. Hakeem made clutch plays, Shaq didn't. Hakeem also had games of 31/7/6/4/2, 34/11/2/4/1, 31/14/7/2, and 35/15/6/3. Hakeem did contain Shaq and that's why Houston swept.

[1987_Lakers]

Hakeem was the better overall defender. At 32, he contained 23 year old Shaq. Not many can claim that.

Walton vs Kareem at 33...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxZzZrVtzMY&feature=channel_video_title

[ThaSwagg3r]

You didn't watch the series. I did. Shaq had 5 fouls in 3 of the 4 games and Hakeem shut him down in the clutch. Shaq may have put up the numbers, but Hakeem kept in check by drawing fouls. Shaq even said he didn't outplay Hakeem. Hakeem made clutch plays, Shaq didn't. Hakeem also had games of 31/7/6/4/2, 34/11/2/4/1, 31/14/7/2, and 35/15/6/3. Hakeem did contain Shaq and that's why Houston swept.
Shaq had nothing to do with the sweep.....


You call this contain?

Game 1 - 26 pts, 16 rbs, 9 asts, 3 blks with 10/16 shooting
Game 2 - 33 pts, 12 rbs, 7 asts, with 12/22 shooting
Game 3 - 28 pts, 10 rbs, 6 asts, 3 blks with 11/17 shooting
Game 4 - 25 pts, 12 rbs, 3 asts, 4 blks with 11/19 shooting

His averages....

28.0 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 6.3 apg, 2.5 bpg, with 59% shooting.


That isn't containing anybody. Hakeem may have outplayed him.....sure but to say he contained him is laughable and nothing more than a revisionist theory.

[D.J.]

Walton vs Kareem at 33...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jxZzZrVtzMY&feature=channel_video_title


Kareem was pushing 40 here. Hakeem went up against a mid-20s Shaq. Come on.

[D.J.]

Shaq had nothing to do with the sweep.....


You call this contain?

Game 1 - 26 pts, 16 rbs, 9 asts, 3 blks with 10/16 shooting
Game 2 - 33 pts, 12 rbs, 7 asts, with 12/22 shooting
Game 3 - 28 pts, 10 rbs, 6 asts, 3 blks with 11/17 shooting
Game 4 - 25 pts, 12 rbs, 3 asts, 4 blks with 11/19 shooting

His averages....

28.0 ppg, 12.5 rpg, 6.3 apg, 2.5 bpg, with 59% shooting.


That isn't containing anybody. He may have outplayed him.....sure but to say he contained him is laughable and nothing more than a revisionist theory.


He averaged 29.3 PPG/11.4 RPG/2.7 APG/2.4 BPG and shot 58.3%. Shaq was held at his scoring average or below in 3 of the 4 games. He was held at 12 boards or below in 3 of the 4 games. He also shot 59% or lower in 2 games and matched his average field goal attempts per game only once. So yes, he did contain him. Aside from assists, Shaq did not go above and beyond what he did in the regular season.

[1987_Lakers]

Kareem was pushing 40 here. Hakeem went up against a mid-20s Shaq. Come on.

Not comparing it to Hakeem vs Shaq, just showing how Walton destroys Kareem and even though Jabbar was 38 he still made the All-NBA First Team that year.

[D.J.]

Not comparing it to Hakeem vs Shaq, just showing how Walton destroys Kareem and even though Jabbar was 38 he still made the All-NBA First Team that year.


Not taking anything away from Walton, but 38 year old Kareem(All-NBA 1st team or not) is not nearly the same as 23 year old Shaq.

[1987_Lakers]

Not taking anything away from Walton, but 38 year old Kareem(All-NBA 1st team or not) is not nearly the same as 23 year old Shaq.

Like I said, I wasn't comparing Kareem to Shaq.

[1987_Lakers]

I hate how basketball-reference has Hakeem listed at 7-0 & Walton at 6-11. Hakeem was clearly 6-10 & Walton was ATLEAST 7-1.

[D.J.]

I hate how basketball-reference has Hakeem listed at 7-0 & Walton at 6-11. Hakeem was clearly 6-10 & Walton was ATLEAST 7-1.


Walton wasn't 7'1". No one is under-listed.

[kurt_rambis]

Not comparing it to Hakeem vs Shaq, just showing how Walton destroys Kareem and even though Jabbar was 38 he still made the All-NBA First Team that year.

he destroyed a 38 year old kareem for an 8 minute stretch in the middle of january. that's not really indicative of anything

i don't really buy that walton was more 'fundamentally sound' than hakeem. i guess walton was the better passer, but by every other conceivable measurement olajuwon was the better player

[ShaqAttack3234]

It is a legitimate question, peak Bill Walton was THAT good, imo. He was the perfect team player and as well rounded of a center as you'll find. But I'll go with Hakeem, he was more dominant and so much of Houston's offense relied on Hakeem getting doubled it in the post. He'd recognize the doubles and get his teammates open shots, but he could also beat the doubles when he needed to.

And ThaSwagg3r is right, Hakeem outplayed Shaq in '95, but I'm not sure I could call it containing him. Watching that series, it's pretty obvious that neither player stood a chance of stopping the other with single coverage, Shaq got in foul trouble when he tried in game 2, and Hakeem actually got in foul trouble in the first half of game 1. Considering how much both players were doubled, and the stretches where Horace Grant guarded Hakeem and Charles Jones guarded Shaq, it really didn't seem like either player could contain the other.

Hakeem outplayed him though, but he was a better player in general than Shaq was in '95.

[1987_Lakers]

Walton wasn't 7'1". No one is under-listed.

I heard the last time Walton was officially measured was as a freshman at UCLA in which he was 6-11, he obviously grew, but he never wanted to be listed as a 7 footer because he said all 7 footers are "freaks".

Look at the UCLA team photo in which he is standing by Swen Nater, Nater is listed as 6-11, but in the team photo Walton is clearly a couple of inches taller.

[1987_Lakers]

i don't really buy that walton was more 'fundamentally sound' than hakeem. i guess walton was the better passer, but by every other conceivable measurement olajuwon was the better player

Walton did the little things better like setting screens, his passing was on another level, he had a better feel for rebounding the ball, he didn't fall for pump fakes & I don't think I've ever seen a center dunk as quick as Walton did once he had the ball down low, once he got the ball down low he stuffed immediately, he wasted no time. It's little things like that that makes Walton more fundamentally sound.

[lefthook00]

For 2 seasons, Bill Walton was one of the best centers the game has seen. EVER. Same goes for Hakeem, but for longer.

As for Hakeem vs. Shaq, Shaq was contained, not shut down. Just like they say, a great player is always gonna get his. You just have to make sure that he doesn't get more than he usually gets. Check the clutch stats of that series.

[Scoooter]

Walton. A healthy Bill Walton was as good as anyone to ever play the game.

[Niquesports]

For 2 seasons, Bill Walton was one of the best centers the game has seen. EVER. Same goes for Hakeem, but for longer.

As for Hakeem vs. Shaq, Shaq was contained, not shut down. Just like they say, a great player is always gonna get his. You just have to make sure that he doesn't get more than he usually gets. Check the clutch stats of that series.


At best I would say Walton was the most complete Center of all time for 1 1/2 years he was hurt the second year again.
There have been more dominant Centers
Wilt
Shaq
Moses

There have been better Offensive Centers
Jabbar
Mcadoo
hakeem
Shaq
Wilt

There has been a greater leader
Russell

There were C that gave more physical play in the paint
Unseld
Cowens
Thurmond

Each C above has a edge on Walton in some area. Walton was the complete package. Not the best at anything but Good to great at everything.
However I still put Walton at 8 at best All Time.

Russell
Jabbar
Wilt
Shaq
Moses
Hakeem
Cowens
Walton

[MasterDurant24]

Walton wasn't 7'1". No one is under-listed.
:facepalm Walton was around the same height as Kareem, he never wanted to be listed as a 7-footer.

[OldSchoolBBall]

Hakeem was the better overall defender. At 32, he contained 23 year old Shaq. Not many can claim that.

How is 28.0 pts/12.5 reb/6.3 ast/59.4% FG being "contained"? They were better than Shaq's regular season numbers that year.

[MasterDurant24]

:facepalm
At best I would say Walton was the most complete Center of all time for 1 1/2 years he was hurt the second year again.
There have been more dominant Centers
Wilt
Shaq
Moses

There have been better Offensive Centers
Jabbar
Mcadoo
hakeem
Shaq
Wilt

There has been a greater leader
Russell

There were C that gave more physical play in the paint
Unseld
Cowens
Thurmond

Each C above has a edge on Walton in some area. Walton was the complete package. Not the best at anything but Good to great at everything.
However I still put Walton at 8 at best All Time.

Russell
Jabbar
Wilt
Shaq
Moses
Hakeem
Cowens
Walton
You have Dave Cowens over David Robinson ?

[PHILA]

Walton of course. :applause:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ko47n6XW6jo



My Personal Best: Life Lessons from an All-American Journey - John Wooden

http://i.imgur.com/Jpzg1.png


The Miami News - Mar 24, 1972 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=g-5WAAAAIBAJ&sjid=bUINAAAAIBAJ&pg=2961,1644565)

http://i.imgur.com/CXD6e.png

[NugzHeat3]

Walton said nobody has played better than Hakeem in 1995.

[Niquesports]

:facepalm
You have Dave Cowens over David Robinson ?

In that category yes

[Bigsmoke]

Hakeem better offensively and defensively so whats the debate?:confusedshrug:

To every who picked Bill Walton...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vkU19uj8GqQ

[MasterDurant24]

In that category yes
oh what was the category

[Round Mound]

I hate how basketball-reference has Hakeem listed at 7-0 & Walton at 6-11. Hakeem was clearly 6-10 & Walton was ATLEAST 7-1.

Tis True :applause:

[bizil]

Bill was an absolute stud! In the all around sense, he's as good as any center ever. He and Kareem really redefined the C spot back in the day with their skill level. But I will narrowly take a prime Olajuwon over Bill. Hakeem was a more dominant scorer and defender. But a peak Walton at his best HAS to be rated in the top 7-8 centers ever. I think Duncan and Walton are very similar players to each other. It's a shame Walton had those injury problems. He's a player who can truly fit into any system and give a team exactly what it needs.

[Crown&Coke]

:facepalm Walton was around the same height as Kareem, he never wanted to be listed as a 7-footer.

a few opponents thought Walton was at least 7'2", and these are big guys who themselves are 6'11" and up, and Walton towered over them.

[Scoooter]

Walton wasn't that much taller than Bird. Not four whole inches taller, in any event. (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u4e7Rrgrh38#t=49m33s)

[Droid101]

Shaq even said he didn't outplay Hakeem.
Outplay does not equal "shut down."

[millwad]

I have to go with Hakeem, too dominant as a scorer and Hakeem in his prime was the DPOY, he was a better defensive player and a better scorer. Though it should be said that Walton was a better rebounder and passer.

Regarding the passing, I honestly believe Hakeem could have averaged more assists if he played with better scorers, he had to carry the load offensively, something Walton didn't have to do. Rebounding as well, obviously this one goes to Walton as well but no one should forget that like in 1995, that Hakeem averaged 15 points more per game in the playoffs compared to the year Walton won and was at his peak and having to carry the team like that on the offensive end also takes away other parts from your game.

So, bottom line, I have Hakeem's peak as a greater one but not by that much.

[IGOTGAME]

He averaged 29.3 PPG/11.4 RPG/2.7 APG/2.4 BPG and shot 58.3%. Shaq was held at his scoring average or below in 3 of the 4 games. He was held at 12 boards or below in 3 of the 4 games. He also shot 59% or lower in 2 games and matched his average field goal attempts per game only once. So yes, he did contain him. Aside from assists, Shaq did not go above and beyond what he did in the regular season.

what the hell kind of stat is show 59% or below? is that the standard for "contain" these days?

[Round Mound]

Walton was 7`1 and Kareem was 7`2 3/4 or 1/2

Real Heights

Hakeem was a Better Total Player but Walton was a Better Rebounder and Passer

[colts19]

Bill Walton was the best team player center ever. I love the dream but I just can't see him winning with Dave twardzick, Bobby Gross and Johnny Davis as three of the starters.

[millwad]

Bill Walton was the best team player center ever. I love the dream but I just can't see him winning with Dave twardzick, Bobby Gross and Johnny Davis as three of the starters.

You do realize that Hakeem won in 1994 without any all-stars at all, don't you? Hakeem won with a startling line up of Kenny Smith, Maxwell, Horry, Thorpe and himself.

To start with, Walton had Maurice Lucas the year he won, who averaged 20 points and 11 rebounds that season and he was an all-star that year. That team also had Lionel Hollins who the year after was voted on the all-star team and who averaged 17 points per game in the playoffs that season. And based on what I've read about that Portland team I've got the impression that both Twardzick and Gross were intelligent players who shot with high FG%.

In the playoffs Hakeem led a team who had Maxwell as the 2nd best scorer, the guy averaged 13.8 points per game in playoffs in 1994 on 37% shooting.

I'd say that Walton had a more stacked team than what Hakeem had.. As a comparison, that Portland team had 3 guys beside Walton who averaged more than 14 points per game in the playoffs. Maxwell was Houston's 2nd best scorer and he averaged 13.8 point per game in the playoffs in 1994 and he did with worse FG% than what Walton's 3 teammates did..

[D.J.]

How is 28.0 pts/12.5 reb/6.3 ast/59.4% FG being "contained"? They were better than Shaq's regular season numbers that year.


1994-95: 29.4 PPG/11.4 RPG/2.7 APG/58.3% FG


Aside from assists, his numbers were right on par with his regular season statline. :facepalm He didn't go above and beyond like Hakeem did.