Shaq's Wilt like performance

[Clippersfan86]

Check this game out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsSINvjnkjw&feature=related

As a freaking rookie.

24 points
28 rebounds
15 blocks
3 assists
1 steals

This is following a 41 point game. Downright nasty! There will never be another player like Shaq. The physical dominance was amazing. Now I'm going to have to make a 7'1 330 pound Shaq clone for 2K12 on My Player mode after watching this lol.

[L.Kizzle]

Thought this was about the night in 1997 when he banged 21 broads after a Laker win vs the Washington Bullets. :confusedshrug:

[Clippersfan86]

Thought this was about the night in 1997 when he banged 21 broads after a Laker win vs the Washington Bullets. :confusedshrug:

:cheers: I guess you can include that now?

[millwad]

Shaq never scored 41 points in his rookie season and he did never have 15 blocks in any of his games that season either, the most blocks he had in his rookie season was 9.

Nice description..:facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[millwad]

The game is Orlando's season opener in the '93-'94 season. Sick performance even though you messed up with the year and the previous 41 point game you made up from nowhere..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199311200NJN.html

[DuMa]

wow thats gotta be the worst video from 1993 i've ever seen

[Clippersfan86]

The game is Orlando's season opener in the '93-'94 season. Sick performance even though you messed up with the year and the previous 41 point game you made up from nowhere..

http://www.basketball-reference.com/boxscores/199311200NJN.html

Ah he was a rookie in 92-93. So I was a year off. Nonetheless you're splitting hairs here because the year is kind of insignificant with this. It was his sophomore year and it did follow a 41 point game according to the commentators in the video if you watched it. Thanks for basketball reference though.... I edited his assists from 4 to 3.

[Clippersfan86]

If the commentators are wrong then my bad but it's a bit trivial and typical to get caught up on that. Let's just look at the stats of this game which are very much Wilt like.. and INCREDIBLE. Downright dominant.

[SpecialQue]

If the commentators are wrong then my bad but it's a bit trivial and typical to get caught up on that. Let's just look at the stats of this game which are very much Wilt like.. and INCREDIBLE. Downright dominant.

Shaq could have been the GOAT, I am convinced of this. Instead he decided to take up acting and rapping instead of killing himself perfecting his game like Jordan and Kobe.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Young Shaq was fun to watch his first 2 years, kind of like a bigger Dwight Howard. But I prefer Shaq from 1995-2003 much more, he became smarter and more skilled and those are more like his prime years, imo.

[Big#50]

Check this game out.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DsSINvjnkjw&feature=related

As a freaking rookie.

24 points
28 rebounds
15 blocks
3 assists
1 steals

This is following a 41 point game. Downright nasty! There will never be another player like Shaq. The physical dominance was amazing. Now I'm going to have to make a 7'1 330 pound Shaq clone for 2K12 on My Player mode after watching this lol.
I thought it was proven that he didn't even get 10 blocks. Had the Big Numbers card with the big 15 on it. Sick game eithee way.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I thought it was proven that he didn't even get 10 blocks. Had the Big Numbers card with the big 15 on it. Sick game eithee way.

I only saw 8-9 blocks in that highlight and 1 steal that maybe the official scorer gave him a block for. I'm assuming LakerDynasty included all of his blocks in that highlight. I have the complete game on my channel so if anyone wants to count them, here's the game. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4C6FCEED36663023

From what I had remembered, Shaq got away with some goal tends in that game(and you can see some in the highlight), I remembered that he blocked a lot of shots, but not sure about 15. 8-9 is more accurate, imo.

[Clippersfan86]

I only saw 8-9 blocks in that highlight and 1 steal that maybe the official scorer gave him a block for. I'm assuming LakerDynasty included all of his blocks in that highlight. I have the complete game on my channel so if anyone wants to count them, here's the game. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4C6FCEED36663023

From what I had remembered, Shaq got away with some goal tends in that game(and you can see some in the highlight), I remembered that he blocked a lot of shots, but not sure about 15. 8-9 is more accurate, imo.

Oh okay. Still 8-9 is insane and still Wilt like :bowdown: .

[Clippersfan86]

Shaq could have been the GOAT, I am convinced of this. Instead he decided to take up acting and rapping instead of killing himself perfecting his game like Jordan and Kobe.

No brainer. Shaq with a better work ethic and attitude EASILY is the GOAT. :cheers: . We can already place his prime numbers right there with anyone and can argue he's the GOAT rookie. It's just that stage right after his prime (which was a short prime) that brings him down the list a bit.

[Psileas]

I only saw 8-9 blocks in that highlight and 1 steal that maybe the official scorer gave him a block for. I'm assuming LakerDynasty included all of his blocks in that highlight. I have the complete game on my channel so if anyone wants to count them, here's the game. http://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PL4C6FCEED36663023

From what I had remembered, Shaq got away with some goal tends in that game(and you can see some in the highlight), I remembered that he blocked a lot of shots, but not sure about 15. 8-9 is more accurate, imo.

I know it's not your fault, but, is this the best quality we can find for this game? I remember having watched the highlights from LakersDynasty and a part from the game (1st Q mainly) just because I wanted to count Shaq's rebounds and blocked shots, but my eyes wanted to quit me after a while.

Both rebounds and blocked shots are a tricky matter. Rebounds even more so, because of being so many. Just to give some examples, there was a video that included all of Manute Bol's blocked shots from a certain game. He got like 7, when he was supposed to have blocked around 12. Kareem in that famous available R.S game against the Lakers in 1972 was credited with 20 rebounds and 9 or 10 blocked shots. I watched the game more than once and I counted 16 or 17 rebounds and 3 or 4 blocked shots. In the same game, Wilt was credited with 12 rebounds, but I counted 17 (his blocked shots were credited correctly at 6). In another full game (Bulls-Lakers, 1971 playoffs), Wilt was credited with 33 rebounds, while I counted 27.

[PHILA]

Kareem in that famous available R.S game against the Lakers in 1972 was credited with 20 rebounds and 9 or 10 blocked shots. I watched the game more than once and I counted 16 or 17 rebounds and 3 or 4 blocked shots. In the same game, Wilt was credited with 12 rebounds, but I counted 17 (his blocked shots were credited correctly at 6). In another full game (Bulls-Lakers, 1971 playoffs), Wilt was credited with 33 rebounds, while I counted 27.


I would question how the scorers for each team officially credited individual rebounds. How about keeping the ball alive anywhere near the offensive backboard tipping it towards a teammate? Would this below count as an offensive rebound for either Chamberlain or Jackson? Perhaps also a field goal attempt?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jIemiXiPs#t=29s



Or this below where Wilt attempts to keep possession alive before Nate snags it down. Was this recorded as a rebound and/or FGA?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFrhKI63e80#t=27m27s



Or this in the '68 playoffs vs. NY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jIemiXiPs#t=16m41s


In 1965, there was a Sports Illustrated article noting the difference in rebounds credited to Russell & Wilt by the Celtics scorer Dennis Whitmarsh and Sixers scorer Harvey Pollack. The subjectivity as to what apparently qualified as an offensive rebound may explain the sometimes large discrepancies. To me Russell is easily the best defensive rebounder in league history, while Wilt was best on the offensive backboards. The Sixers home court "advantage" also aided their rebounding, while in Boston Garden the rims were loose, therefore benefiting the Celtics outside shooters.




Christian Science Monitor - Apr 8, 1966

Philadelphia replaced its old basket and backboard setup before the season with a single post model. This post has a steel finger coming off the top which holds both backboard and basket in a very rigid position. And this is perfect for a physically powerful team like the 76ers, who score so many of their baskets in close, and who depend so heavily on Chamberlain for the turnaround dunk. But a tight hoop should work against the Celtics' outside shooters. The ball also rebounds differently on this type of backboard. It is usually a very active rebound, generally high and often deep.

[jlauber]

I also recall something about Lenny Wilkens assists in games late in the '68 season, when he chasing Chamberlain. Seems he was getting some pretty generous scoring in those games.

[PHILA]

I also recall something about Lenny Wilkens assists in games late in the '68 season, when he chasing Chamberlain. Seems he was getting some pretty generous scoring in those games. Sports Illustrated - March 11, 1968 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1080922/index.htm)

THE RECORD MAKERS

From time to time there are angry protests from NBA teams and players about the official scoring system in the league. It is decidedly bush, with home-town favoritism blatantly evident in the recording of individual statistics. The NBA Guide, for instance, lists 23 rebounding performances of 40 rebounds or more in a game. Just one of these records was made without the benefit of a home-town statistician. Similarly, only one of the top 36 assist marks was made on the road.

A classic scoring goof was made in a 76er-Bullet game two years ago when the official box score credited Gerry Ward with one field goal in no attempts (1 for 0). There was also the time that Hal Greer took six shots in a game and made seven of them, according to the stat men. And at half time in the All-Star game in January, Greer was credited with making two baskets but only taking one shot.

In a recent game in Evansville, Ind. between Chicago and St. Louis the official scorer recorded only three assists for the Hawks' Len Wilkens, who tops the league in that category. This led to immediate retribution when the Bulls visited St. Louis. At half time a Chicago official complained to Hawks General Manager Marty Blake that the Bulls' Jim Washington had been credited with only two rebounds. Blake replied, " Washington will get another rebound when Wilkens gets an assist in Evansville."

Currently Wilt Chamberlain is leading the league in complaining about statistics, and probably with good reason. Philadelphia Statistician Harvey Pollack is one of the few well-regarded scorers in the NBA. He won't favor anyone, including Wilt, but he thinks Chamberlain probably has a valid complaint. To check for himself, Pollack decided two Sundays ago to keep his own box score as he watched the telecast of a game between the 76ers and the Hawks in St. Louis. The official statistics showed Wilkens with 13 assists and Chamberlain with four. Pollack, however, credited eight to Wilkens and nine to Chamberlain. "I knew it was coming," Pollack said, "because Chamberlain was catching Wilkens in total assists."

Why doesn't the NBA just throw away its record book and start again—this time as a big-league operation?

[Psileas]

I would question how the scorers for each team officially credited individual rebounds. How about keeping the ball alive anywhere near the offensive backboard tipping it towards a teammate? Would this below count as an offensive rebound for either Chamberlain or Jackson? Perhaps also a field goal attempt?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jIemiXiPs#t=29s

A bit too obscure to tell.



Or this below where Wilt attempts to keep possession alive before Nate snags it down. Was this recorded as a rebound and/or FGA?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFrhKI63e80#t=27m27s

Normally, I'd give the rebound to Thurmond and nothing else. I wouldn't be surprised though if some counted it as a FGA for Wilt, as well. This is another reason I'd love to see some more games from that era. In that 1971 game I mentioned above, I counted, apart from Wilt's rebounds, the total rebounds of the game. The number was about 105-110, giving Wilt a (by my counting) rebounding rate of 25%. I have no idea about the number of total rebounds the boxscore indicated.



Or this in the '68 playoffs vs. NY.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y3jIemiXiPs#t=16m41s

Comives with the rebound + the assist to Bellamy.

[PHILA]

This is another reason I'd love to see some more games from that era.
:applause:

I believe there is a lot more footage from that time we have not seen. When it will actually be released is the question. For example, we know the '68 Sixers televised every (road) game locally. Surely other teams must have done so as well.

http://i.imgur.com/Nwnlm.png

[jlauber]

:applause:

I believe there is a lot more footage from that time we have not seen. When it will actually be released is the question. For example, we know the '68 Sixers televised every (road) game locally. Surely other teams must have done so as well.

http://i.imgur.com/Nwnlm.png

EVERY game of the '72 WCF's was nationally televised as well. Where are they? Wilt and Russell went H2H on MANY Sunday televised games in the 60's. Where are they? Chamberlain blocked 23 shots on a nationally televised game on Christmas day in 1968? Where is it? Wilt's Lakers pummeled Russell's Celtics, in BOSTON, 108-73, in a nationally televised game in '69. Where is it? I remember watching EVERY Warrior-Laker game in the '72 season. Where are they? Jackass Bill Simmons claims to have watched a 73 point game by Chamberlain. Where is it?

Hopefully someday we will get at least some of those games, as well as the many other s that had to have been televised.

[L.Kizzle]

:applause:

I believe there is a lot more footage from that time we have not seen. When it will actually be released is the question. For example, we know the '68 Sixers televised every (road) game locally. Surely other teams must have done so as well.

http://i.imgur.com/Nwnlm.png
So the double headers, other teams played in the Spectrum? I though this was only at Madison Square Garden??

[PHILA]

Jackass Bill Simmons claims to have watched a 73 point game by Chamberlain.

There are enough lies in his book as it is.



So the double headers, other teams played in the Spectrum? I though this was only at Madison Square Garden??

Cheaper prices as well compared to now.


http://i.imgur.com/hpIqb.jpg

[L.Kizzle]

There are enough lies in his book as it is.




Cheaper prices as well compared to now.


http://i.imgur.com/hpIqb.jpg
Were the double headers in every city? WHo was considered the home team in these double headers.

[PHILA]

Were the double headers in every city? WHo was considered the home team in these double headers.In non-NBA cities I believe it was considered a neutral court. No different in NBA cities when two "away" teams played.

[L.Kizzle]

In non-NBA cities I believe it was considered a neutral court. No different in NBA cities when two "away" teams played.
So they played games in non-NBA cities? Like how the NBA Preseason is, or the China Games or whatever.

[PHILA]

So they played games in non-NBA cities? Like how the NBA Preseason is, or the China Games or whatever.Indeed, one example being Wilt's 100 point game was played in Hershey, PA. If look at the schedule there are some neutral games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHW/1962_games.html

[necya]

[QUOTE=Psileas]I know it's not your fault, but, is this the best quality we can find for this game? I remember having watched the highlights from LakersDynasty and a part from the game (1st Q mainly) just because I wanted to count Shaq's rebounds and blocked shots, but my eyes wanted to quit me after a while.

i have a master quality version of this game on 2 DVDs, but i have no clue how to upload screenshots here.
O'Neal didn't get more than 21 rebounds and 8 blocks. plus, some were illegal for sure.

[Pointguard]

EVERY game of the '72 WCF's was nationally televised as well. Where are they? Wilt and Russell went H2H on MANY Sunday televised games in the 60's. Where are they? Chamberlain blocked 23 shots on a nationally televised game on Christmas day in 1968? Where is it? Wilt's Lakers pummeled Russell's Celtics, in BOSTON, 108-73, in a nationally televised game in '69. Where is it? I remember watching EVERY Warrior-Laker game in the '72 season. Where are they? Jackass Bill Simmons claims to have watched a 73 point game by Chamberlain. Where is it?

Hopefully someday we will get at least some of those games, as well as the many other s that had to have been televised.

It really is a conspiracy. It's not questionable to me. The complete wipe out of Wilt's great games can only be done intentionally. I think it was to protect the journalist that voted Russell the best player - if people want a motivation.

[jlauber]

It really is a conspiracy. It's not questionable to me. The complete wipe out of Wilt's great games can only be done intentionally. I think it was to protect the journalist that voted Russell the best player - if people want a motivation.

It certainly seems suspicious to me that much of what little known footage we had of Chamberlain, by WiltatKansas, was removed from YouTube (for whatever reason)...much of it lost forever according to him.

[catch24]

It really is a conspiracy. It's not questionable to me. The complete wipe out of Wilt's great games can only be done intentionally. I think it was to protect the journalist that voted Russell the best player - if people want a motivation.

Definitely strange. I was going to upload a Wilt compilation I have been working on the last few months, but now I'm not so sure anymore. Not worth Youtube suspending and deleting all my videos.

[Legends66NBA7]

It certainly seems suspicious to me that much of what little known footage we had of Chamberlain, by WiltatKansas, was removed from YouTube (for whatever reason)...much of it lost forever according to him.

Man, i hated when that channel was taken down. It was an access point to the old vintage footage of one of the legends of this game. That footage alone was worth millions ! And the reason it was taken down ? EMI music claimed copyrights for their music ! Seriously, i can understand if the NBA took it down for whatever B.S. reason, but EMI music ? Really ?? SMH, man.

[jlauber]

Definitely strange. I was going to upload a Wilt compilation I have been working on the last few months, but now I'm not so sure anymore. Not worth Youtube suspending and deleting all my videos.

I hate to agree with you, but I don't blame you at all.

Wiltatkansas had some pretty great stuff at one point. One of my favorites was a several minute video of Wilt's great shot-blocking. He also had a compilation of Wilt's game five of the '72 Finals. Fortunately, there is still footage of almost that entire game out there (except for the last minute, or so), but the highlight video of that game was a good example of even a well-past his prime Wilt making some spectacular offensive moves and several blocked shots (including a questionable goal-tend.)

[Pointguard]

It's definitely about some control over his Wilt's/Russell legacy. They are being very extensive about the control. Somebody downloaded WiltKansas videos tho, I'm pretty sure about that.

[ShaqAttack3234]

:oldlol: at this conspiracy crap. As someone mentioned his channel was removed because he uploaded some Beatles music and music that has a copyright can always be taken down.

So what great Wilt games "mysteriously disappeared?". Wilt's game 5 during the 1972 Finals was released by the NBA as part of the Lakers dynasty series DVD set, and lakeptic uploaded the 1971 Lakers/Bulls game several months ago and it hasn't been removed.

There haven't been many games released from that era in general.

[jlauber]

It's definitely about some control over his Wilt's/Russell legacy. They are being very extensive about the control. Somebody downloaded WiltKansas videos tho, I'm pretty sure about that.

I am usually the last guy who believes in "conspiracy theories", but I always found it fascinating that the near full games that we had on Wilt, were among the worst he played. Wilt and Kareem went H2H 11 times in '72, and most all of the were televised (all SIX of the '72 WCF's were for sure), and yet, the ONLY game we get from that season was the one in which Wilt got in foul trouble, and his Lakers saw their 33 game winning streak snapped.

The '67 Sixers routed Boston in five games in the ECF's, Guess which game we get? Yep, the one game in which Wilt was somewhat neutralized by Russell, and his Sixers lost, 121-117.

Wilt had several games of 30+ points against Russell in the '64 Finals. We get the second half of the one game in which he "only" scored 27 points.

Even in the '62 All-Star game, it was suspicious. Wilt scored 42 points, on 17-23 shooting, and yet, in the limited footage of that game, we see him miss several shots (and yes, we also see him nail quite a few others...but certainly not all of them.)

And my god, Wilt had 271 40+ point games in his career...and yet, we don't have ONE?

[Legends66NBA7]

Definitely strange. I was going to upload a Wilt compilation I have been working on the last few months, but now I'm not so sure anymore. Not worth Youtube suspending and deleting all my videos.

Hey catch, if you don't mind me asking, what's your youtube name ? Do you have a lot uploads on b-bball ? I would love to check it out some time and probably sub..

[jlip]

So they played games in non-NBA cities? Like how the NBA Preseason is, or the China Games or whatever.



Indeed, one example being Wilt's 100 point game was played in Hershey, PA. If look at the schedule there are some neutral games.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/PHW/1962_games.html

To add to that, I remember Oscar Robertson saying in his autobiography that 1/3 of a teams "home" games were actually played in "other" cities.

[Pointguard]

:oldlol: at this conspiracy crap. As someone mentioned his channel was removed because he uploaded some Beatles music and music that has a copyright can always be taken down.

You addressed one person, Bozo. Or maybe you don't know what conspiracy means? We are talking about how some '61 games were up in full, but then there is a six or seven year gap. And then Wilt's later great games that were on National TV after that are also without circulation.

[ShaqAttack3234]

You addressed one person, Bozo. Or maybe you don't know what conspiracy means? We are talking about how some '61 games were up in full, but then there is a six or seven year gap. And then Wilt's later great games that were on National TV after that are also without circulation.

No, games from 1961 were not up in full, moron. I've asked WiltAtKansas about what Wilt games are in circulation and there isn't much else that he knew collectors had.

As far as the National televised stuff? There are a ton of games that have never been in circulation, not just Wilt. A lot of stuff probably hasn't been kept all of these years. This subject has come up many times before.

Clowns like you really make me laugh. You're really talking out of your ass here, and it's funny to me because I know a lot more about this stuff than you do.

So continue spewing bullshit and talking about these laughable conspiracy theories against Wilt.

[catch24]

Hey catch, if you don't mind me asking, what's your youtube name ? Do you have a lot uploads on b-bball ? I would love to check it out some time and probably sub..

Haven't uploaded anything in over a month, but you may like some of the older stuff (check the playlists too); www.youtube.com/user/mayhem8z




So continue spewing bullshit and talking about these laughable conspiracy theories against Wilt.

Not saying I believe in any of that conspiracy stuff but I've had copyright warnings and even some of my Jordan edits removed because of strikes (had to delete the game vs. Denver in '91 because of a "warning" and the few strikes I already had). Hoopsencyclopedia, I think got his channel suspended for a lengthy period of time due to MSG copyrights (hence him blackening out their logo in one of his edits vs. NY).

None of these games had music, either.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Not saying I believe in any of that conspiracy stuff but I've had copyright warnings and even some of my Jordan edits removed because of strikes (had to delete the game vs. Denver in '91 because of the few strikes I already had). Hoopsencyclopedia, I think got his channel suspended for a lengthy period of time due to MSG copyrights (hence him blackening out their logo in one of his edits vs. NY).

None of these games had music, either.

Of course, the removals come down to copyrights in general, sometimes it's NBA, MSG or whatever, I know it WiltAtKansas' case, he stated that the music he uploaded was a problem.

But it sure as hell isn't the NBA trying to make Wilt look bad. They delete Jordan videos as you've said(as well as Da Realist has had happen to some of his games) and the NBA sure isn't trying to hide Jordan's great moments.

I've been lucky so far, none of my videos have been deleted as far as I know, but I guess it's only a matter of time. :oldlol:

[Legends66NBA7]

Haven't uploaded anything in over a month, but you may like some of the older stuff (check the playlists too); www.youtube.com/user/mayhem8z .

Oh wow, so your mayhem8z. Good to know. Great stuff, i check it out your videos when i get the time, but i think i have not subbed to you. That will change now, hahaha..

[catch24]

Of course, the removals come down to copyrights in general, sometimes it's NBA, MSG or whatever, I know it WiltAtKansas' case, he stated that the music he uploaded was a problem.

But it sure as hell isn't the NBA trying to make Wilt look bad. They delete Jordan videos as you've said(as well as Da Realist has had happen to some of his games) and the NBA sure isn't trying to hide Jordan's great moments.

I've been lucky so far, none of my videos have been deleted as far as I know, but I guess it's only a matter of time. :oldlol:

True.

Yeah, it freaking sucks man. That game vs. Denver I had uploaded is extremely rare...don't think it's ever been uploaded to YT either. I want to upload more of my DVD's but the coloring and sound in some of them are so terrible they're just not watchable :oldlol:

[catch24]

Oh wow, so your mayhem8z. Good to know. Great stuff, i check it out your videos when i get the time, but i think i have not subbed to you. That will change now, hahaha..

:cheers:

[Pointguard]

No, games from 1961 were not up in full, moron. I've asked WiltAtKansas about what Wilt games are in circulation and there isn't much else that he knew collectors had.

As far as the National televised stuff? There are a ton of games that have never been in circulation, not just Wilt. A lot of stuff probably hasn't been kept all of these years. This subject has come up many times before.

Clowns like you really make me laugh. You're really talking out of your ass here, and it's funny to me because I know a lot more about this stuff than you do.

So continue spewing bullshit and talking about these laughable conspiracy theories against Wilt.

LOL, get it together. Slooow down buddy.

There were full games up of Boston and and some other team even in 1960 on youtube. I wasn't talking about Wilt in 61 because most of those games were off of the hook then as well (I'm sure he had a 50/30/20 game back then). If you know so much why can't you put simple things together?

So its normal to you that there were full games of basketball up in 1960 and '61 then clean avoidance of Wilt's big games the rest of the way? You know so much spill the beans? What moving camera's went on vacation til 1968? Speak up, because you talking real big now and you in the know.

Most of the full games on Youtube the last couple of years, from that period, came from people overseas, maybe you can explain that too?

Do you really think every clip of Chamberlain that time period was about music infringement? You big time with the knowledge kick it? Wilt's 500 great game deletion was accidentally, thoroughly and consistently deleted is perfectly logical to you? And you want to act like you are some expert on the time and the most you offered is that you think you know the era. Well here's you shot.

[ShaqAttack3234]

LOL, get it together. Slooow down buddy.

There were full games up of Boston and and some other team even in 1960 on youtube. I wasn't talking about Wilt in 61 because most of those games were off of the hook then as well (I'm sure he had a 50/30/20 game back then). If you know so much why can't you put simple things together?

There was some stuff from the '62 finals with Boston and LA, and there is still some stuff on youtube up such as footage of game 7.


So its normal to you that there were full games of basketball up in 1960 and '61 then clean avoidance of Wilt's big games the rest of the way? You know so much spill the beans? What moving camera's went on vacation til 1968? Speak up, because you talking real big now and you in the know.

Not full games, and not from '60 and '61. Parts of 1962 finals games, and no, it's not strange to me. The only games I've seen from '62 are finals games, and Wilt wasn't in the finals that season. In fact, the vast majority of game footage from the 60's(and everything I've seen pre-'65) was NBA Finals footage, and not too much of it at that, so again, you're reaching.


Most of the full games on Youtube the last couple of years, from that period, came from people overseas, maybe you can explain that too?

Most of the game footage uploaded isn't that rare and available on most sites where you can download games.

Other than all-star games, this is the only 60's Wilt stuff I've even seen uploaded.

1964 Finals Game 4 second half(WiltAtKansas uploaded the game again on his new account 6 months ago)
1967 Eastern Division Finals Game 4 second half(uploaded by a few different users)
1969 Finals Game 7 4th quarter(Not rare at all, included on the Celtics dynasty series DVD set)

You'll see clips of other games, either very briefly from broadcasts, or used in documentaries, but no other game broadcasts have been uploaded, or are even in regular circulation.


Do you really think every clip of Chamberlain that time period was about music infringement? You big time with the knowledge kick it? Wilt's 500 great game deletion was accidentally, thoroughly and consistently deleted is perfectly logical to you? And you want to act like you are some expert on the time and the most you offered is that you think you know the era. Well here's you shot.

WiltAtKansas' whole account was banned or deleted so all of his videos on that account were removed, and he claimed this was because of the music infringement, he'd know better than we would why his first account was banned. So, once again, there's your simple logical explanation.

[L.Kizzle]

A lot of footage has been deleted or taped over.

To save tape, sometime they would just re-record over something already used. So unless they were recorded from home or whatever they used to record in the 50s and 60s a lot of those games will never be seen again.

[Pointguard]

There was some stuff from the '62 finals with Boston and LA, and there is still some stuff on youtube up such as footage of game 7.

Not full games, and not from '60 and '61. Parts of 1962 finals games, and no, it's not strange to me. The only games I've seen from '62 are finals games, and Wilt wasn't in the finals that season. In fact, the vast majority of game footage from the 60's(and everything I've seen pre-'65) was NBA Finals footage, and not too much of it at that, so again, you're reaching.

Most of the game footage uploaded isn't that rare and available on most sites where you can download games.

Other than all-star games, this is the only 60's Wilt stuff I've even seen uploaded.

1964 Finals Game 4 second half(WiltAtKansas uploaded the game again on his new account 6 months ago)
1967 Eastern Division Finals Game 4 second half(uploaded by a few different users)
1969 Finals Game 7 4th quarter(Not rare at all, included on the Celtics dynasty series DVD set)

You'll see clips of other games, either very briefly from broadcasts, or used in documentaries, but no other game broadcasts have been uploaded, or are even in regular circulation.

WiltAtKansas' whole account was banned or deleted so all of his videos on that account were removed, and he claimed this was because of the music infringement, he'd know better than we would why his first account was banned. So, once again, there's your simple logical explanation.

Simple question. You fully believe that there are no films of Chamberlain going off for those six or seven years? That a professional institution wouldn't want to capture it's history. I know there is film capture of a young Meadowlock Lemon but that's a much smaller institution. I know poor people that have film footage in 1962. I could believe in a storage problem, as reel to reels were large, but warehouses were cheap. Does the NBA say they don't have it? That no fanatics kept their reel to reels? Or the NBA ask that people forward footage that was lost or stolen? I don't know of Baseball and Football to be as thoroughly obsessive over their copyrights but they might be.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Simple question. You fully believe that there are no films of Chamberlain going off for those six or seven years? That a professional institution wouldn't want to capture it's history. I know there is film capture of a young Meadowlock Lemon but that's a much smaller institution. I know poor people that have film footage in 1962. I could believe in a storage problem, as reel to reels were large, but warehouses were cheap. Does the NBA say they don't have it? That no fanatics kept their reel to reels? Or the NBA ask that people forward footage that was lost or stolen? I don't know of Baseball and Football to be as thoroughly obsessive over their copyrights but they might be.

I never said that I don't think anything else remains. It's very possible that Bill Simmons is telling the truth about seeing Wilt's 73 point game.

I'm sure there's some games remaining that we haven't seen, but unfortunately, I think a lot it will never be seen again as L Kizzle said. Certainly a lot of stuff wasn't kept. I have a hard time believing that we've seen almost all that remains, especially since every now and then something new pops up(though it's usually not that much footage of a game).

[nycelt84]

Keep in mind that VCR'S were invented until about 1975. And in the old days stations regularly reused tape footage because reels were expensive and often footage was wiped out forever. Unless the league or network or someone who purchased the reels from the local stations has them it is easy to see how most pre 1975 footage is lost forever and even late 70's footage is not widely available. There is no conspiracy when you really think about it.

[jlauber]

Simple question. You fully believe that there are no films of Chamberlain going off for those six or seven years? That a professional institution wouldn't want to capture it's history. I know there is film capture of a young Meadowlock Lemon but that's a much smaller institution. I know poor people that have film footage in 1962. I could believe in a storage problem, as reel to reels were large, but warehouses were cheap. Does the NBA say they don't have it? That no fanatics kept their reel to reels? Or the NBA ask that people forward footage that was lost or stolen? I don't know of Baseball and Football to be as thoroughly obsessive over their copyrights but they might be.

I also find it difficult to believe that there would not be more footage of Chamberlain available. 1200 career games, with probably well over HALF in the 30-25 category, and we only have a couple of his games...and those are among the WORST he played in?

Makes no sense.

In any case, if the notorious liar Bill Simmons is somehow telling the truth, I sure wish the NBA (or whoever has it) would release Wilt's 73 point game to the public. Of course, Wilt's detractors would still dismiss it as being against "weak" competition (even if it was his 73 point game against 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy.)

[Pointguard]

Keep in mind that VCR'S were invented until about 1975. And in the old days stations regularly reused tape footage because reels were expensive and often footage was wiped out forever. Unless the league or network or someone who purchased the reels from the local stations has them it is easy to see how most pre 1975 footage is lost forever and even late 70's footage is not widely available. There is no conspiracy when you really think about it.
As I mentioned above the reel to reel storage required space but wasn't that expensive. I don't know the copyright situations of the early 1960's but I'm pretty sure it was the same way as it is now and similar to other media I can vouch for. The local stations give a copy to the copyright owner and keep their copy. NBC, ABC and CBS keep everything that is nationally televised. I have requested early 1960's Ali fights, 1950's Olympic introduction ceremonies, 1930's Yankee footage for other stations. In theory there are two copies out there - the counter is that one is likely lost to preservation issues, water or heat damage - particurally to the outer portions of the reel to reel which I've seen fade. But, there is also a great chance of two or three fanatics with filming, preserving and storage capability.

Filming should have increased dramatically after Wilt put a century number up in a professional sport. Lets say of Wilt's 500 monster games that should provide 200 film and keep opportunities between NBA and local stations or 100 chances for different films.

I saw a monster game by Wilt in Lincoln Center New York. Where NY Public/Research Library had, at one time, the full collection of TV in the 1960's in NY. This was before people were rescinding copywright's and such. It was my first job and I assumed it would always be there but it wasn't. I handled reel to reel a lot. So I know its out there - to me its a question of how much is.

[jlauber]

As I mentioned above the reel to reel storage required space but wasn't that expensive. I don't know the copyright situations of the early 1960's but I'm pretty sure it was the same way as it is now and similar to other media I can vouch for. The local stations give a copy to the copyright owner and keep their copy. NBC, ABC and CBS keep everything that is nationally televised. I have requested early 1960's Ali fights, 1950's Olympic introduction ceremonies, 1930's Yankee footage for other stations. In theory there are two copies out there - the counter is that one is likely lost to preservation issues, water or heat damage - particurally to the outer portions of the reel to reel which I've seen fade. But, there is also a great chance of two or three fanatics with filming, preserving and storage capability.

Filming should have increased dramatically after Wilt put a century number up in a professional sport. Lets say of Wilt's 500 monster games that should provide 200 film and keep opportunities between NBA and local stations or 100 chances for different films.

I saw a monster game by Wilt in Lincoln Center New York. Where NY Public/Research Library had, at one time, the full collection of TV in the 1960's in NY. This was before people were rescinding copywright's and such. It was my first job and I assumed it would always be there but it wasn't. I handled reel to reel a lot. So I know its out there - to me its a question of how much is.

I wish I could remember where I read it, but I recall on another forum a few years back, that a sportwriter who occasionally posted there, actually viewed a full Wilt-Russell game from the mid-60's (I think he said it was either at a HOF somewhere, or a museum.) (BTW, he too came away believing that Wilt easily outplayed Russell in that game.) I personally saw quite a few on the Sundays that they used to be televised.

Once again, though, we KNOW that MANY of those great H2H's WERE nationally televised (and as PHILA pointed out, MANY other's were locally broadcast.)

It just simply boggles that mind that we don't have ONE of Wilt's 271 40+ point games (24 of which were against Russell.)

[Pointguard]

I never said that I don't think anything else remains. It's very possible that Bill Simmons is telling the truth about seeing Wilt's 73 point game.


If you believe its out there, then you have to believe that its being controlled or made inaccessible. Tell me the reason why that would be the case?

You don't think the NBA is very controlling?

[nycelt84]

As I mentioned above the reel to reel storage required space but wasn't that expensive. I don't know the copyright situations of the early 1960's but I'm pretty sure it was the same way as it is now and similar to other media I can vouch for. The local stations give a copy to the copyright owner and keep their copy. NBC, ABC and CBS keep everything that is nationally televised. I have requested early 1960's Ali fights, 1950's Olympic introduction ceremonies, 1930's Yankee footage for other stations. In theory there are two copies out there - the counter is that one is likely lost to preservation issues, water or heat damage - particurally to the outer portions of the reel to reel which I've seen fade. But, there is also a great chance of two or three fanatics with filming, preserving and storage capability.

Filming should have increased dramatically after Wilt put a century number up in a professional sport. Lets say of Wilt's 500 monster games that should provide 200 film and keep opportunities between NBA and local stations or 100 chances for different films.

I saw a monster game by Wilt in Lincoln Center New York. Where NY Public/Research Library had, at one time, the full collection of TV in the 1960's in NY. This was before people were rescinding copywright's and such. It was my first job and I assumed it would always be there but it wasn't. I handled reel to reel a lot. So I know its out there - to me its a question of how much is.

It was not the same way then. And who are these fanatics and how were they going to get a hold of expensive reel footage of the 60's and 70's? I have dealed with this very issue among other people with regards to pro wrestling footage from the 60's and 70's with people who have met with actual station heads and the answer is always the same. Reel footage before the advent of the VCR was quite expensive and it was common policy that rather than use new reel to reuse the old ones. This stuff just isn't out there especially with an NBA who didn't use to care about stuff like this before David Stern. I once read where Stern said when he came to work for the league they had a very small number of employees working for the entire league, this simply was not a priority at the time. I strongly disagree that this is out there anywhere and if anything survives it is mostly by luck.

[jlauber]

I saw a monster game by Wilt in Lincoln Center New York. Where NY Public/Research Library had, at one time, the full collection of TV in the 1960's in NY. This was before people were rescinding copywright's and such. It was my first job and I assumed it would always be there but it wasn't. I handled reel to reel a lot. So I know its out there - to me its a question of how much is.




That is what really bothers me in all of this. You are either the second, or third person (if we can believe the notorious blatant liar Simmons) that has claimed to have watched a monster Wilt performance at a public site that I KNOW of.

[Fatal9]

maybe they don't release the 73 point game because people will stop taking wilt's numbers seriously (even more so)

http://i53.tinypic.com/35aj6sl.jpg

http://www.evga.com/evgachat/CuteSoft_Client/CuteChat/images/emotions/trollface.jpg

[Pointguard]

I wish I could remember where I read it, but I recall on another forum a few years back, that a sportwriter who occasionally posted there, actually viewed a full Wilt-Russell game from the mid-60's (I think he said it was either at a HOF somewhere, or a museum.) (BTW, he too came away believing that Wilt easily outplayed Russell in that game.) I personally saw quite a few on the Sundays that they used to be televised.

Once again, though, we KNOW that MANY of those great H2H's WERE nationally televised (and as PHILA pointed out, MANY other's were locally broadcast.)

It just simply boggles that mind that we don't have ONE of Wilt's 271 40+ point games (24 of which were against Russell.)

Boston, LA, Philly and NY were the most likely to televise games. So the odds were that these places have a copy, in some cases in both places - a possibility of four copies of those games were in existence.

[Pointguard]

That is what really bothers me in all of this. You are either the second, or third person (if we can believe the notorious blatant liar Simmons) that has claimed to have watched a monster Wilt performance at a public site that I KNOW of.

I believe Simmons on this account. I don't know if its still on premises but the public can't get to it, that much I know.

[Pointguard]

It was not the same way then. And who are these fanatics and how were they going to get a hold of expensive reel footage of the 60's and 70's? I have dealed with this very issue among other people with regards to pro wrestling footage from the 60's and 70's with people who have met with actual station heads and the answer is always the same. Reel footage before the advent of the VCR was quite expensive and it was common policy that rather than use new reel to reuse the old ones. This stuff just isn't out there especially with an NBA who didn't use to care about stuff like this before David Stern. I once read where Stern said when he came to work for the league they had a very small number of employees working for the entire league, this simply was not a priority at the time. I strongly disagree that this is out there anywhere and if anything survives it is mostly by luck.

So you don't believe your fellow Bostonian - Simmon's? My uncles who were never in the money have 60's footage of themselves goofing in a park. I can understand wrestling being problematic as they shifted hands and owners frequently, faced lawsuits, were actually hiding stuff from themselves and lacked institutional consistency. Basketball was more like Football in that day - a good distance behind Baseball but nevermind us knowing about OJ and Jim Brown, there is even footage of Jim Thorpe in the 1920's. Once an organiztion establishes a Hall of Fame its a full fledge institution making its stand on history and claiming it. I think it began the HOF began in 1959 but didn't get its building until nine years later? But at that time you would already have your screening committies and storage for films.

Your determination of luck applies to where you believe the NBA was at this time and that is up for debate but local stations and networks are thorough about what they put out there. Networks are keepers for sure. That's their policy and nothing is lucky about policy.

[jlauber]

maybe they don't release the 73 point game because people will stop taking wilt's numbers seriously (even more so)

http://i53.tinypic.com/35aj6sl.jpg

http://www.evga.com/evgachat/CuteSoft_Client/CuteChat/images/emotions/trollface.jpg

Oh, of course. Just like Wilt hanging TWO 60+ point games in his 68-69 season (in a league that averaged 112.3 ppg BTW), and in a year in which he averaged 14 FGAs per game. Or LEADING the league the VERY NEXT season at 32.2 ppg when he went down with his knee injury...in a league that Kareem played in and scored 28.8 ppg. Or the fact that Kareem faced many of the same centers that a PRIME Chamberlain did, and never approached Wilt's numbers against them

Or Wilt having two of his 103 30-30 games just in the '72 season alone...and something that Kareem could only achieve one time in his entire 20 year career.

The FACT was, Wilt was scoring 60+ points in games in the ENTIRE decade of the 60's.

[Pointguard]

Or Wilt having two of his 103 30-30 games just in the '72 season alone...and something that Kareem could only achieve one time in his entire 20 year career.

The FACT was, Wilt was scoring 60+ points in games in the ENTIRE decade of the 60's.

Or the 20/20/20 game. Pretty sure there's a 20/20/15/15 game or a 25/20/15/10 game in there too.

My bad on that Jlauder. I said his 500 monster games as tho they only existed between '60 and 67. But the monster games of great balance make it more like 700 thru out his career.

[jlauber]

Or the 20/20/20 game. Pretty sure there's a 20/20/15/15 game or a 25/20/15/10 game in there too.

My bad on that Jlauder. I said his 500 monster games as tho they only existed between '60 and 67. But the monster games of great balance make it more like 700 thru out his career.

I agree. Wilt DOMINATED his ENTIRE career. My god, in his LAST season (72-73) at the age of 36, he was voted first-team all-defense (over the likes of Hayes, Lanier, Reed, Thurmond, Cowens, and Kareem); he LED the NBA in rebounding (and by nearly two per game) at 18.6 rpg; and he shot .727 from the floor, which is a record that will probably never be approached, much less broken.) Furthermore, he faced a PRIME Kareem in six regular season battles, and not only held Kareem to .450 shooting, he outshot Kareem by a staggering .737 to .450 margin, which included one game in which he OUTSCORED Kareem, 24-21 (and outshot him in that game, 10-14 to 10-27.) Then, in the post-season, all he did was play 47.1 mpg, and average 22.5 rpg (in a league that averaged 50.6 BTW), which is not only that last time a player ever averaged 20+ rpg in the post-season...it was miles ahead of the next best post-season (Kareem's 17.3 rpg in the '77 playoffs.)

I have said it before, but Chamberlain had a TON of just mind-boggling games. How about a 78-43 game? Or how about FOUR 50+-40+ games? Or how about 55 40-30 games (and the rest of the NBA had a combined SIX)? How about a triple-double game of 53-32-14, and on 24-29 shooting? You mentioned his double-triple-double (22 points, 25 rebounds, and 21 assists.) How about one of his three highest "perfect games" (15-15, 16-16, and 18-18)? How about his 66 point game (on 29-35 shooting, which is by far the most efficient 60+ point game in NBA history)? Or just one of his 32 60+ point games, which is two more than all of the rest of the NBA...COMBINED? How about one of his 15 40+ rebound games? How about his 25+ block game that Pollack recorded, or his nationally televised game in which he recorded a known 23 blocks? Where are his FOUR 50+ point playoff games (including a 56-35 and a 50-35 games)? Where are one of his 24 40+ point games against Russell...including perhaps his 44-43 game against him? Or one of his FIVE 50+ games against Russell?

Look, I know that his numbers were slightly inflated due to pace early in his career. And really, that is not the point. What I would like to see, though, were his SKILL-SETS in those games. We KNOW that HOF Coach Red Holzman credited Wilt with a very good OUTSIDE shot early in his career. And we have limited footage of Chamberlain making foul-line jumpers, and 15+ foot bank shots, as well as quick 10+ ft turn-around jump shots.

We KNOW he was a sprinter and high-jumper in college. We KNOW that he was regarded as one of the strongest ATHLETES in the world at the time. And we KNOW that he was between 7-1 and 7-2 (if not taller), and with a 7-8 wingspan. And we KNOW that he weighed anywhere between 260-300+ in his NBA career.

Now, all we need is just SOME of those games to educate the "doubters" out there.

[HylianNightmare]

i can't even watch that yellow ass video

[Pointguard]

Look, I know that his numbers were slightly inflated due to pace early in his career. And really, that is not the point. What I would like to see, though, were his SKILL-SETS in those games. We KNOW that HOF Coach Red Holzman credited Wilt with a very good OUTSIDE shot early in his career. And we have limited footage of Chamberlain making foul-line jumpers, and 15+ foot bank shots, as well as quick 10+ ft turn-around jump shots.

WiltKansas, and several other youtube contributors provided the jump shooting aspect of his game. What I find disturbing is that outside of the Holtzman quote, people seemed to be mighty unwilling to talk about his skilled game. A game so skilled that he could dominate while rarely resorting to a powergame. A great middle game? Or the disparity in calls that Mikan talked about. Or in Fatal9 posting one of his games where Wilt was obviously constrained on taking the usual extra half step and was called for walk when he did - this is something I accidently stumbled on - so you know there were other hinderances imposed on him. Even I didn't know that in the crazy scoring years he was getting 15 blocks in a game, and it seems to accidently or incidently come up.

The lens has some untold stories in it.

[Pointguard]

maybe they don't release the 73 point game because people will stop taking wilt's numbers seriously (even more so)

http://i53.tinypic.com/35aj6sl.jpg

http://www.evga.com/evgachat/CuteSoft_Client/CuteChat/images/emotions/trollface.jpg
Wow, so you take the MDE and the one of the best shooting guards ever and combine them and they are right there with Wilt and its supposed to be a diss on Wilt? Insult him some more!

[jlauber]

WiltKansas, and several other youtube contributors provided the jump shooting aspect of his game. What I find disturbing is that outside of the Holtzman quote, people seemed to be mighty unwilling to talk about his skilled game. A game so skilled that he could dominate while rarely resorting to a powergame. A great middle game? Or the disparity in calls that Mikan talked about. Or in Fatal9 posting one of his games where Wilt was obviously constrained on taking the usual extra half step and was called for walk when he did - this is something I accidently stumbled on - so you know there were other hinderances imposed on him. Even I didn't know that in the crazy scoring years he was getting 15 blocks in a game, and it seems to accidently or incidently come up.

The lens has some untold stories in it.

Great post. And that is exactly why we need some video proof of Chamberlain's amazing skill-sets. And one can only wonder how long the NBA would have allowed Wilt to physically overpower the league, had he chosen to do so (which he seldom did.) I am convinced that the NBA would have enacted even more "anti-Wilt" rules in an effort to curtail his domination. The reality was, had Wilt played like Shaq, and been allowed to do so, he would have made a complete mockery of the game. He would have scored at will, and 100+ point games would have been common-place.

[nycelt84]

So you don't believe your fellow Bostonian - Simmon's? My uncles who were never in the money have 60's footage of themselves goofing in a park. I can understand wrestling being problematic as they shifted hands and owners frequently, faced lawsuits, were actually hiding stuff from themselves and lacked institutional consistency. Basketball was more like Football in that day - a good distance behind Baseball but nevermind us knowing about OJ and Jim Brown, there is even footage of Jim Thorpe in the 1920's. Once an organiztion establishes a Hall of Fame its a full fledge institution making its stand on history and claiming it. I think it began the HOF began in 1959 but didn't get its building until nine years later? But at that time you would already have your screening committies and storage for films.

Your determination of luck applies to where you believe the NBA was at this time and that is up for debate but local stations and networks are thorough about what they put out there. Networks are keepers for sure. That's their policy and nothing is lucky about policy.

No I don't really believe Simmons. And your analogy about home movies is different because the kind of recording used to record home movies in that era is different from the kind of recording that television was doing and nobody had the means to record television programs until the invention of the VCR. Furthermore from 1962-1965 the NBA didn't even have a true network home.

And you're wrong about the networks saving everything by the way. Several episodes of the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson are lost forever and even the complete broadcast of Super Bowl II is lost forever and Super Bowl I was thought to be the same until it was discovered. Networks didn't start saving until the mid-late 70's I have now found out. So I am even more convinced that these games most likely just don't exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lost_television_broadcasts

[necya]

No I don't really believe Simmons. And your analogy about home movies is different because the kind of recording used to record home movies in that era is different from the kind of recording that television was doing and nobody had the means to record television programs until the invention of the VCR. Furthermore from 1962-1965 the NBA didn't even have a true network home.

And you're wrong about the networks saving everything by the way. Several episodes of the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson are lost forever and even the complete broadcast of Super Bowl II is lost forever and Super Bowl I was thought to be the same until it was discovered. Networks didn't start saving until the mid-late 70's I have now found out. So I am even more convinced that these games most likely just don't exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lost_television_broadcasts


this is right.
you won't find home records from before 76. plus, the first VCR only allowed to record 40min of movie.
you will only find greatest games, nba tv and espn classic versions. and they don't have a lot.
concerning Wity13's account, he has been removed by the NBA, like some other random accounts.
they are very protected with their business.
you can contact some college who will help you to get old games. but the nba...i have tried to write/email them, the broadcasters, to get help from NBA players, nothing.
you need good friends in the tv network.
i only know someone who get the chance to trade with Mike Dunleavy for a rare playoff game from 1983.

[Pointguard]

No I don't really believe Simmons. And your analogy about home movies is different because the kind of recording used to record home movies in that era is different from the kind of recording that television was doing and nobody had the means to record television programs until the invention of the VCR. Furthermore from 1962-1965 the NBA didn't even have a true network home.

And you're wrong about the networks saving everything by the way. Several episodes of the Tonight Show with Johnny Carson are lost forever and even the complete broadcast of Super Bowl II is lost forever and Super Bowl I was thought to be the same until it was discovered. Networks didn't start saving until the mid-late 70's I have now found out. So I am even more convinced that these games most likely just don't exist.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_lost_television_broadcasts
You do realize you are citing the exception and not the rule in the Superbowl game and Johnny Carson (what about 9000 episodes?) loosing .001 should not be compared to retaining only .01 percent. You are saying the NBA lost a whole warehouse and miraculously retained the three or four Shaqattack mentions above? Which by luck happen to pick and choose a select group of games?

Different localities have different storage policies and capabilities. If the NBA looses 8/10ths of their footage of a decade onsite, that should have been a major news story. An even bigger story with the Networks who would have amazingly synchronized their loses. Why are you so convinced this happened without a paper trail anywhere?

The home recording on youtube is a reel to reel on the screen of the TV, at least that is what I can tell of the foreign films - the main problem is getting rid of glare. There is one guy overseas that I believe he somehow got an actual. We know its not a VCR. I understand that. But fanatics are resourceful people.

[nycelt84]

You do realize you are citing the exception and not the rule in the Superbowl game and Johnny Carson (what about 9000 episodes?) loosing .001 should not be compared to retaining only .01 percent. You are saying the NBA lost a whole warehouse and miraculously retained the three or four Shaqattack mentions above? Which by luck happen to pick and choose a select group of games?

Different localities have different storage policies and capabilities. If the NBA 8/10ths of their footage of a decade onsite, that should have been a major news story. An even bigger story with the Networks who would have amazingly synchronized their loses. Why are you so convinced this happened without a paper trail anywhere?

The home recording on youtube is a reel to reel on the screen of the TV, at least that is what I can tell of the foreign films - the main problem is getting rid of glare. There is one guy overseas that I believe he somehow got an actual. We know its not a VCR. I understand that. But fanatics are resourceful people.

For some reason you're not getting that networks didn't save stuff and the Johnny Carson is not an exception but just the most notable. I see you obviously neglected to read the wikipedia link I posted about how stuff just wasn't saved in those days. And I don't why it would be a major story about the NBA not having games saved in the 60's when for one there were a distant 3rd league fighting for popularity and 2nd that was something that virtually nobody did anyway and 3rd most games weren't taped to begin with.

Where you have the information that the NBA had some kind of warehouse I would like to find out and before David Stern saving old footage was not a priority. And once again I don't know why you keep mentioning the networks when for one games were rarely televised on national television in the 60's and 2nd local television in the 60's through the 70's saved absolutely nothing.

[Psileas]

On deleted televised archives, I'm not an American, so I have to ask: When exactly did the first editions of video recorders become popular in the US? Before or after the early 70's? If before, it wouldn't be impossible for a few "tech junkies" of the era to have kept a few archives that don't "officially" exist now.