ISH All-time Top 25 Guards Project: #1 Michael Jordan vs Magic Johnson.

[Kblaze8855]

Magic won the last round but im gonna have to double check(triple really) on the final count. I dont feel like counting votes looking over 250 posts of Kobe arguing but I counted enough earlier to know Magic won. I'll update this with the exact count...whenever.

Make your arguments here for the next 48 hours on rather MJ(him j fadeaway perfect) or Magic should advance and continue to move higher on the list. Put the players name you are voting for in BOLD so I don't miss it when I tally. The loser of this poll will be ranked #2 in our project.

Only members listed on the project roster will have their votes counted. Anyone may add their opinion and or argument as long as it's constructive. Our roster is now finalized. If you like the project and think you can make it better please add your opinion. If you'd like to join in the forwards, centers or all-time top 67 project, please let GOAT know via PM. The Final Roster is listed below....

The Roster

L.Kizzle
ThaSwagg3r
Rose
WillC
G.O.A.T
1987 Lakers
neyca
Toizumi
Shaqattack3234
Magnax1
RobertdeMeijer
nycelt84
KGMN
SteveNashMVPcro

Crossover (added after initial vote)
bizil (added after initial vote)
Boston C's (added at #20)
Gotterdammerung (added at #17)
SuperPippen (added at #14)
Big164 (added at #13)
Droid101 (added at #11)
D.J. (added at #11)
Miller for 3 (added at #10)
Odinn (added at #9)
OmniStrife (added at #9)
HylianNightmare (added at #9)
Pushxx (added at #9)
MasterDurant24 (added at #9)
Clippersfan86 (added at #9)

ThaRegul8r (contributor)
NugzHeat3 (contributor)
Psileas (contributor)
alexandreben (contributor)
EricForman (contributor)




http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_guJH_JA3Tms/TB6y6mAbm6I/AAAAAAAABJI/Q8sHipmCyas/s1600/magic_johnson_3.jpg


13 seasons(well...12 plus 36 games in 96)
3 time NBA MVP
10x all-NBA
12x all-star(including 1992...when he was not in the NBA)
2x ASG MVP
5x NBA Champion
3X Finals MVP
2X steals leader
4x assist leader(top 2 10 seasons in a row)
20-12-7 averages over 10 year prime
19-11-7 career average in the playoffs



http://cdn.sportsmemorabilia.com/sports-product-image/michael-jordan-1987-slam-dunk-contest-action-8x10-photo1-1-t1196252-500.jpg



15 seasons
5 time NBA MVP
11x all-NBA
14x all-star
3x ASG MVP
6x NBA Champion
6X Finals MVP
1988 DPOY
3X steals leader
10X ppg leader leader
32-6-5.5 averages over 11 year prime(did 87-98 including 95)
33-6-6 career average in the playoffs


Lets get this over with.

[NugzHeat3]

This project went down the shitter ever since that Bob Couy vs Isiah thread. The quality of discussion just kept getting worse and worse.

Its utterly worthless now. It was decent midway with guys like Nash, Kidd, GP, Gervin and such.

[SuperPippen]

Agreed, let's hurry this the hell up so we can get to the forwards.

I vote Michael Jordan. Would explain why, but that's not really necessary.

[NJW1247]

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj-laughing.gif

[AlphaWolf24]

:facepalm @ Elitists fans

[SuperPippen]

:facepalm @ Elitists fans

"Yup...............mad










next"

[Boston C's]

:facepalm @ Elitists fans

:roll: :roll: :roll: dont cry alphawolf itll b alright

Jordan gets my vote... im with nugs we know jordan will take this lets hurry up and get to the forwards... the integrity of discussion in this list went down the shitter at like number 10

[DaPerceive]

If this thread is just for discussion and nothing more, then does anyone think that there is an argument that Magic was a better offensive player than MJ? I have seen people call Magic the greatest offensive player to ever play the game over MJ. I am not so sure I agree with that sentiment.

[kurt_rambis]

come on, leave magic alone! hasn't he suffered enough...failed talk shows, weight problems, legions of kobephiles spewing uninformed propaganda, not to mention being inflicted with an incurable disease

let's just all agree jordan is better and dedicate this thread to ice cream or something

[Deuce Bigalow]

If i was starting a team, I would take Magic over Jordan

[HylianNightmare]

Jordan lets get the forwards started

[AlphaWolf24]

:roll: :roll: :roll: dont cry alphawolf itll b alright

Jordan gets my vote... im with nugs we know jordan will take this lets hurry up and get to the forwards... the integrity of discussion in this list went down the shitter at like number 10




http://toffymenchavez.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/disappointed.gif

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/wtf/grand/wtfg_fkdk.gif

http://www.gifsoup.com/view4/1653098/chappelle-diddy-o.gif

[AlphaWolf24]

If i was starting a team, I would take Magic over Jordan


:rockon:

[SuperPippen]

http://toffymenchavez.files.wordpress.com/2011/05/disappointed.gif

http://gifsforum.com/images/gif/wtf/grand/wtfg_fkdk.gif

http://www.gifsoup.com/view4/1653098/chappelle-diddy-o.gif

lol, he's so damn mad, he resorts to posting nonsensical GIFs.

This is really killing him inside. Kinda tragic, if you think about it.

[RRR3]

lol, he's so damn mad, he resorts to posting nonsensical GIFs.

This is really killing him inside. Kinda tragic, if you think about it.
Shecks, pardner, dat boy madder than greased buffalo knee deep in corn dip!

[Legends66NBA7]

I'll go with MJ....

[JordanTime]

http://www.midwestsportsfans.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/mj-laughing.gif
:oldlol: :oldlol:

i vote for Michael Jordan

[Miller for 3]

MJ was the better individual player, Magic the better team player. But MJ at his peak in the early 90s = the GOAT player. So my vote is for Jordan

[Smoke117]

This project went down the shitter ever since that Bob Couy vs Isiah thread. The quality of discussion just kept getting worse and worse.

Its utterly worthless now. It was decent midway with guys like Nash, Kidd, GP, Gervin and such.
No it went the down the drain when the majority of you idiots picked Cousy over Wade. (dunno if you did just generalizing) At least you knuckleheads got it right for the top 2 at least but how could you get it wrong? So you deserve nothing for that.

[Boston C's]

lol, he's so damn mad, he resorts to posting nonsensical GIFs.

This is really killing him inside. Kinda tragic, if you think about it.

lmao yea poor guy is probably crying a river right now :lol

[Sampsonsimpson]

Jordan

Elite offense and elite defense.

Magic only had elite offense.

[AlphaWolf24]

Jordan

Elite offense and elite defense.

Magic only had elite offense.


so Kobe>Magic...


:confusedshrug:




and exactly what I said was going to happen.... happened..

everyone who picked Magic over Kobe for being a better....Facilitator or whatever....is straight *crickets* in this thread...

If Magic is ranked ahead of Kobe for those reasons he should be ranked ahead of MJ too.....but all dem' is on the shhhhhhhhhhhhh...husshhh...


just Haterz Hating is all this is....




Cousy over Wade to?:roll: :roll:

[OmniStrife]

so Kobe>Magic...


:confusedshrug:




and exactly what I said was going to happen.... happened..

everyone who picked Magic over Kobe for being a better....Facilitator or whatever....is straight *crickets* in this thread...

If Magic is ranked ahead of Kobe for those reasons he should be ranked ahead of MJ too.....but all dem' is on the shhhhhhhhhhhhh...husshhh...


just Haterz Hating is all this is....




Cousy over Wade to?:roll: :roll:

Go be mad somewhere else please. :facepalm

My vote is for the GOAT. Michael.

http://i.imgur.com/EsQPi.jpg

[AlphaWolf24]

Go be mad somewhere else please. :facepalm

My vote is for the GOAT. Michael.

http://i.imgur.com/EsQPi.jpg


so Bill Russell or Kareem is GOAT???...there List>MJ's....MJ is 3rd at best ...right?:roll:

[OmniStrife]

so Bill Russell or Kareem is GOAT???...there List>MJ's....MJ is 3rd at best ...right?:roll:
We should contact the Guinness book of records ASAP!
You're probably the maddest person alive.

[AlphaWolf24]

We should contact the Guinness book of records ASAP!
You're probably the maddest person alive.


STFU AZZHOle....I'm just pointing out the Facts....y'all just Hating on Greatness..


I'm Just joking y'all.....I'm bored.....survivor is on a comercial....

peace and Love Homies

[andgar923]

Michael Jeffrey Jordan

[Toizumi]

This project started of great.. but turned to sh*t once we got to the top 10. For this reason, I didn

[SteveNashMVPcro]

Jordan

[HylianNightmare]

[QUOTE=Toizumi]This project started of great.. but turned to sh*t once we got to the top 10. For this reason, I didn

[sh0wtime]

Now i know my vote doesnt count, but i will have a saying anyways.

First of all, putting together a list of the NBA’s Top Ten players of all-time is a little like becoming Britney Spear’s therapist. It’s an unenviable task that once completed, will ultimately leave many people unsatisfied and ashamed. Hence why there is no such list and never will exist, neither will "GOAT", its all opinions.

One of my biggest problems with lists like these is that everyone and their mother puts Jordan on top of the list and shouts down everyone who has a differing opinion. MJ might be the best player ever. But in no way, shape, or form is he the hands down, undisputable number one. Which is why I submit to you, my choice: Magic Johnson.

Consider the following…Magic won his five championships during the best decade the NBA has ever seen. In addition, Magic led his team to the Finals four additional times. That’s nine Finals appearances in a 12 year career! (not including his comeback year, of course.) That’s domination from wire to wire.

And Magic achieved this greatness against far better teams than MJ faced. If you think the NBA wasn’t watered down by the expansion of the ‘90s, you’re flat out crazy. If you think any of the teams the Bulls faced in the Finals were better than the Celtics of the ‘80s, you’re flat out crazy.

In addition, Magic Johnson is often credited with the following: Resurrecting Kareem Abdul Jabbar’s career, being the best passer in NBA history, redefining the point guard position, being the only non-center who could utterly dominate a game without scoring, and lest we forget, saving the NBA (along with Larry Bird).

Without Magic there is no MJ. There may have been a basketball player named Michael Jordan, but he wouldn’t have been the household name and global icon we know MJ as today. For that to happen, Magic had to come first. Thus he is my number one.

[OldSchoolBBall]

and exactly what I said was going to happen.... happened..

everyone who picked Magic over Kobe for being a better....Facilitator or whatever....is straight *crickets* in this thread...

If Magic is ranked ahead of Kobe for those reasons he should be ranked ahead of MJ too.....but all dem' is on the shhhhhhhhhhhhh...husshhh...

Not really, no, since Jordan is far more efficient than Kobe and at higher volume, a better playmaker/passer than Kobe, a better rebounder than Kobe, better defensively than Kobe, and has better intangibles than Kobe. Not to mention his VASTLY superior resume. So no, one doesn't have to logically choose Magic over Jordan if they chose Magic over Kobe. Kobe != Jordan.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Not really, no, since Jordan is far more efficient than Kobe and at higher volume, a better playmaker/passer than Kobe, a better rebounder than Kobe, better defensively than Kobe, and has better intangibles than Kobe. Not to mention his VASTLY superior resume. So no, one doesn't have to logically choose Magic over Jordan if they chose Magic over Kobe. Kobe != Jordan.

I don't think he's saying that based on the premise that Kobe = Jordan. I think he's saying that the people who chose Magic over Kobe say it's because of his passing/playmaking. Well Magic's passing/playmaking > Jordan's as well. But when it comes to Jordan they say Jordan > Magic because of his scoring/defense. Well Kobe > Magic in scoring/defense as well so why does the criteria change?

[NugzHeat3]

No it went the down the drain when the majority of you idiots picked Cousy over Wade. (dunno if you did just generalizing) At least you knuckleheads got it right for the top 2 at least but how could you get it wrong? So you deserve nothing for that.
Yeah I was just generalizing. I couldn't actually give a less of a damn about the rankings considering the majority are just mindless idiots.

I was just here for the discussion to get to know more about the players. Clearly, not a good idea in retrospect.

[PistonsFan#21]

[QUOTE=sh0wtime]Now i know my vote doesnt count, but i will have a saying anyways.

First of all, putting together a list of the NBA

[OldSchoolBBall]

I don't think he's saying that based on the premise that Kobe = Jordan. I think he's saying that the people who chose Magic over Kobe say it's because of his passing/playmaking. Well Magic's passing/playmaking > Jordan's as well. But when it comes to Jordan they say Jordan > Magic because of his scoring/defense. Well Kobe > Magic in scoring/defense as well so why does the criteria change?

Because of the magnitude of the difference in Jordan's scoring/defensive impact as compared to Kobe's scoring/defensive impact. It's not that Kobe isn't a better scorer/defender than Magic - he is. But he's not AS MUCH of a better scorer/defender than Magic as Jordan is. It's the SIZE of Jordan's edge/impact in those areas (as well as his superior intangibles, rebounding, and passing/playmkaing) as compared to Kobe that allows him to trump Magic's advantages whereas Kobe does not. There is no contradiction there, because the SIZE of the difference between Magic/MJ as scorers/defenders is not the same as the SIZE of the difference between Magic/Kobe as scorers/defenders (and again, Jordan's intangibles, rebounding, and passing edge over Kobe also factors in).

[Gotterdammerung]

Magic Johnson had the more dominant career (9 finals in 12 years, 5 titles) while Jordan is the superior basketball player.

But the NBA is a team game, so they're a lot closer than most think. GOAT consists far more than the singular talent of the player. It's also about the intangibles, what the guy does for OTHER players.

Jordan probably could play the point guard position well, if he had a loaded team, but he couldn't replicate Magic's trigger-man style. Nobody could. Magic is far more rare in that regard.

Magic wasn't as a complete player as Jordan (not as athletic and not as consistent a scorer, and by miles not as vicious as a doberman on defense) but his impact on teams - maximized their abilities - was much greater. Magic could've scored more, but he knew that in order to win he had to sublimate his game. Jordan absolutely HAD to score on those shitty teams until Pippen and Grant came along. Then he could just fit in by scoring 8 points per quarter, and then liberally break the offensive sets in the clutch.

I'll just say this: you had to have a powerhouse team with a mentally strong coach to with with Jordan. Magic led much weaker teams to the finals than Jordan did (1989, 1991). Led the Lakers to 64 wins in 1990 - mostly on smoke and mirrors.

Jordan's better, but only by a hair.

[PistonsFan#21]

Magic Johnson himself said that Jordan is head and shoulders above the rest of the league

[OldSchoolBBall]

I'll just say this: you had to have a powerhouse team with a mentally strong coach to with with Jordan. Magic led much weaker teams to the finals than Jordan did (1989, 1991). Led the Lakers to 64 wins in 1990 - mostly on smoke and mirrors.

That's false. Jordan lost to the eventual champion Pistons in 1989 and 1990 with less support than what Magic had in '89 and '91. Had he played in the Western Conference like Magic (i.e., the worse conference) and Magic in the EC, Jordan's Bulls would have made the Finals in '89 and '90 with less help than Magic did. What you're saying is completely false.

On top of that, every single one of Magic's title teams had more talent than most/all of Jordan's title teams.

[RobertdeMeijer]

To me, it is Michael Jordan who defines greatness in basketball. My Dutch girlfriend knows his name, how he looks and knows of only one basketball team: the Chicago Bulls. Not until another player is so well known, will I change my definition of what constitutes basketball greatness. Sorry Bill Russell.

[Da_Realist]

Damn :facepalm I tried not to say anything in this and the other threads. I just wanted read the intelligent posts and ignore the other 85%. But I must say this...

Every player needs help. Every single one, no matter how great, has a hole or two in his game. Jordan needed Phil Jackson because he's so ultra competitive that he needed someone that would be headstrong enough to push back but not so headstrong that he extinguished that fire. Because that's what made Jordan SPECIAL. Jordan without PJ and Pippen is like drinking Jack Daniels with no chaser. Don't overdo it! With PJ and Pippen there, it's like a smooth $200 bottle of cognac.

Magic Johnson needed help, too. He played no defense and needed players there that could help in that regard. Magic Johnson didn't make Michael Cooper play all world defense. He also played on big teams that clogged the middle. It also helped that he usually had big guys (Kareem especially but also guys like Worthy, Perkins and Thompson) that could put the ball in the hoop. Magic might have given them the ball in the best possible position to score but those guys still had to score. Magic didn't help Worthy with those spin moves. Magic didn't help Kareem with his sky hooks. Put Magic on a team where Cliff Levingston and Tree Rollins were his big guys and he would have a problem getting to the Finals.

The 91 Lakers relied on size and defense to win games. Sometime during the season, they were ranked in the top 3 in DEFENSE. That wasn't all Magic Johnson.

Every player needs help. The player helps the team but the team also helps the player. Put Jordan on a team with some people to round out his rough edges and he'll take you to a title. Put Magic on a team with some size and players dedicated to defense and he'll get you a title.

This wasn't to any poster in particular but just something I wanted to say for a while and it seemed relevant to this discussion.

[AlphaWolf24]

Because of the magnitude of the difference in Jordan's scoring/defensive impact as compared to Kobe's scoring/defensive impact. It's not that Kobe isn't a better scorer/defender than Magic - he is. But he's not AS MUCH of a better scorer/defender than Magic as Jordan is. It's the SIZE of Jordan's edge/impact in those areas (as well as his superior intangibles, rebounding, and passing/playmkaing) as compared to Kobe that allows him to trump Magic's advantages whereas Kobe does not. There is no contradiction there, because the SIZE of the difference between Magic/MJ as scorers/defenders is not the same as the SIZE of the difference between Magic/Kobe as scorers/defenders (and again, Jordan's intangibles, rebounding, and passing edge over Kobe also factors in).


complete Bullsh!t....

Kobe and Jordan are similar players in similar roles with similar results...

the difference's in Both is marginal at best....and many of the slight difference's can be atributed to them slightly overlapping but for the most part playing 2 diffrent era's..

99.9% of the basketball community compares both and has watched over 30seasons of basketball betweeen the both of them.....and all have came to the same conclusion....both are very similar and the top 2 greatest SG's ever.....hans down.



now you sit here and say Jordan was just so much better then Kobe that it erases all the better attributes that Magic had over Kobe???.:roll: ..another sign of your basketball illiteracy..



apply yourself son......because you aint trying very hard.









next

[AlphaWolf24]

Damn :facepalm I tried not to say anything in this and the other threads. I just wanted read the intelligent posts and ignore the other 85%. But I must say this...

Every player needs help. Every single one, no matter how great, has a hole or two in his game. Jordan needed Phil Jackson because he's so ultra competitive that he needed someone that would be headstrong enough to push back but not so headstrong that he extinguished that fire. Because that's what made Jordan SPECIAL. Jordan without PJ and Pippen is like drinking Jack Daniels with no chaser. Don't overdo it! With PJ and Pippen there, it's like a smooth $200 bottle of cognac.

Magic Johnson needed help, too. He played no defense and needed players there that could help in that regard. Magic Johnson didn't make Michael Cooper play all world defense. He also played on big teams that clogged the middle. It also helped that he usually had big guys (Kareem especially but also guys like Worthy, Perkins and Thompson) that could put the ball in the hoop. Magic might have given them the ball in the best possible position to score but those guys still had to score. Magic didn't help Worthy with those spin moves. Magic didn't help Kareem with his sky hooks. Put Magic on a team where Cliff Levingston and Tree Rollins were his big guys and he would have a problem getting to the Finals.

The 91 Lakers relied on size and defense to win games. Sometime during the season, they were ranked in the top 3 in DEFENSE. That wasn't all Magic Johnson.

Every player needs help. The player helps the team but the team also helps the player. Put Jordan on a team with some people to round out his rough edges and he'll take you to a title. Put Magic on a team with some size and players dedicated to defense and he'll get you a title.

This wasn't to any poster in particular but just something I wanted to say for a while and it seemed relevant to this discussion.



Wow every player needs help??.....hmmm...after reading about Kobe vs Magic I would of thought Kobe was supposed to win every game by himself....since he gets slighted for Winning with Shaq.....even though he was putting up 29PPG 7REB 6AST Championship runs playing BOTH sides of the floor...

who knew???.....:confusedshrug:

[AlphaWolf24]

[QUOTE=sh0wtime]Now i know my vote doesnt count, but i will have a saying anyways.

First of all, putting together a list of the NBA

[OldSchoolBBall]

complete Bullsh!t....

Kobe and Jordan are similar players in similar roles with similar results...

the difference's in Both is marginal at best...

lulz. Keep telling yourself that, kid. From age 21-30 Jordan was scoring 4.5 more ppg on +5% FG and +3.5% TS, which is a SIGNIFICANT difference. Jordan's defensive impact was also WELL beyond Kobe's, and he has edges as a passer and rebounder; he was also better in terms of leadership and intangibles. There is no comparison between Kobe and Jordan. None. Zero.

[AlphaWolf24]

lulz. Keep telling yourself that, kid. From age 21-30 Jordan was scoring 4.5 more ppg on +5% FG and +3.5% TS, which is a SIGNIFICANT difference. Jordan's defensive impact was also WELL beyond Kobe's, and he has edges as a passer and rebounder; he was also better in terms of leadership and intangibles. There is no comparison between Kobe and Jordan. None. Zero.


Wrong again son....2 completly different era's.....You using marginal stats prove's how close Kobe and Jordan are....30 seasons of following both players and the whole basketball community understands...

Kobe is the greatest player of his Generation...and it wasn't even close....the hardest worker and the best killer instinct...to go along with making so many all defensive teams you guy's have to use Math to discredit him...


recap...NO ONE agree's with what you believe outside the 10 elitists fans here...Kobe and Jordan are similar players with similar results....(and the differences you posted still don't outweigh all the reasons Magic is better)



next

[D.J.]

MJ


No explanation needed.

[Legends66NBA7]

lulz. Keep telling yourself that, kid. From age 21-30 Jordan was scoring 4.5 more ppg on +5% FG and +3.5% TS, which is a SIGNIFICANT difference. Jordan's defensive impact was also WELL beyond Kobe's, and he has edges as a passer and rebounder; he was also better in terms of leadership and intangibles. There is no comparison between Kobe and Jordan. None. Zero.


Could have just put these down too:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJJRwfGPOMA&feature=channel_video_title

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TJo5e6sxUz4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGbuEjt-KIc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVQElmVtzeU

http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/comparison_nba_stars.htm

http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/comparison_current_stars.htm

[Leviathon1121]

Wrong again son....2 completly different era's.....You using marginal stats prove's how close Kobe and Jordan are....30 seasons of following both players and the whole basketball community understands...

Kobe is the greatest player of his Generation...and it wasn't even close....the hardest worker and the best killer instinct...to go along with making so many all defensive teams you guy's have to use Math to discredit him...


recap...NO ONE agree's with what you believe outside the 10 elitists fans here...Kobe and Jordan are similar players with similar results....(and the differences you posted still don't outweigh all the reasons Magic is better)



next

You seriously believe that? :roll: :lol :roll: :lol

[ZaaaaaH]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u69SCU79_O0&feature=related

End this Nub Thread already.

[ZaaaaaH]

[QUOTE=sh0wtime]Now i know my vote doesnt count, but i will have a saying anyways.

First of all, putting together a list of the NBA

[nycelt84]

Michael Jordan

[andgar923]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=csSTjUON1xs&list=FLRVLmlXJhDAaEOLFZ4WqTHw&index=22

[eliteballer]

Magic wasnt in his prime in 92, he was retired for a year taking HIV meds and was out of shape. In his prime he was able to match Jordan blow for blow. hell Jordan said Barkley had the same impact as him.

[Legends66NBA7]

Cool upload by Da Realist:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=s6r2v_lRIeU&feature=channel_video_title

[bizil]

Gotta be MJ the Jordan version lol! But in my book Magic is the most unique player of all time. He's a better rebounder and passer than MJ. And can play four positions (many say five and U guess he did, but defensively I don't want him checking a big center) great. But MJ is MJ and he has absolutely NO WEAKNESS! MJ can do everything very good to great and was a freakish athlete on top of it. However Magic is Magic and in his own way is a one of a kind player. If he close to Jordan's athletic and defensive skills, I would take Magic.

[SuperPippen]

Wrong again son....2 completly different era's.....You using marginal stats prove's how close Kobe and Jordan are....30 seasons of following both players and the whole basketball community understands...

Kobe is the greatest player of his Generation...and it wasn't even close....the hardest worker and the best killer instinct...to go along with making so many all defensive teams you guy's have to use Math to discredit him...


recap...NO ONE agree's with what you believe outside the 10 elitists fans here...Kobe and Jordan are similar players with similar results....(and the differences you posted still don't outweigh all the reasons Magic is better)



next

Dude, quit being so mad. It's not good for ya.

MJ is the consensus GOAT, and the vast majority of people think Magic was better than Kobe.

Your opinions aren't changing anything, the things you write aren't changing anything, and even if you really were correct, you're never going to convince anybody of anything. You're a troll. You may not think you are, but everyone else does.

I don't really understand what you're trying to accomplish. Nobody outside of crazed Kobe stans like yourself are EVER going to agree with what you say, and you are never going to actually sway anybody's opinion.

Maybe you should dedicate your life to something else.

[AlphaWolf24]

You seriously believe that? :roll: :lol :roll: :lol


James Worthy Magic former teamate...says Kobe is the Best Laker ever..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRDhovyprZo&feature=related

Jerry west says Kobe is the best Laker ever..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgjD3YtTA-M&feature=related

Barkley says Kobe is top 5 alltime....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyhX2YMgNvs&feature=related


Kobe was voted as best Player of the decade.....


Yet 10 people online with an agenda slight him and use a fine tooth comb to negate his Greatness.....:roll:

and i get called out for agreeing with the Majority:confusedshrug:






apply yourself

[SuperPippen]

James Worthy Magic former teamate...says Kobe is the Best Laker ever..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wRDhovyprZo&feature=related

Jerry west says Kobe is the best Laker ever..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jgjD3YtTA-M&feature=related

Barkley says Kobe is top 5 alltime....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AyhX2YMgNvs&feature=related


Kobe was voted as best Player of the decade.....


Yet 10 people online with an agenda slight him and use a fine tooth comb to negate his Greatness.....:roll:

and i get called out for agreeing with the Majority:confusedshrug:






apply yourself

Now, you're not even arguing.... you're just straight up spewing LIES.

Worthy himself said he wouldn't go so far as to call Kobe the best Laker ever in the link you posted.

West says nothing about Kobe being the best Laker of all time in that vid. All he says is that Kobe is the best late game shooter in the NBA.

And although you're not lying about Barkley, he himself says that it's just his opinion, and he ranks OSCAR ROBERTSON as the second best of all time - which really puts a stain on his credibility - and everyone knows that Barkley loves to say outlandish shit (this is the guy who chose Allen Iverson over every other player in NBA history to start a team with). Even the other guys said that Barkley "says A LOT of things"

Kobe was voted as Player of the Decade (in a silly opinion poll that was obviously based purely on popularity, no less), and I concede that it's a tight race between him and Tim Duncan for that title. But being the best player of the 2000's does not automatically make you a top 5 GOAT. The vast majority of the lists I've seen have Kobe ranked right around number 10, which is right where I have him.



And, even if you were being truthful about those videos........ 3 people is the majority now?

[RRR3]

LOL @ Alphawolf

http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/225dae39d3bfce93ed069a6992aabcb0.jpg

[AlphaWolf24]

Now you're not even arguing.... you're just straight up spewing LIES.

Worthy himself said he wouldn't go so far as to call Kobe the best Laker ever in the link you posted.

West says nothing about Kobe being the best Laker of all time in that vid. All he says is that Kobe is the best late game shooter in the NBA.

And although you're not lying about Barkley, he himself says that it's just his opinion, and he ranks OSCAR ROBERTSON as the second best of all time - which really puts a stain on his credibility - and everyone knows that Barkley loves to say outlandish shit (this is guy who chose Allen Iverson over every other player in NBA history to start a team with). Even the other guys said that Barkley "says A LOT of things"



And, even if you were being truthful about those videos........ 3 people is the majority now?


comprehend much?

"if Kobe can win one more championship (video was from 2009) he is right up there with Magic and maybe ahead.....if he wins 6 Titles...then he is right there as the GOAT"


Jerry West has said Kobe is the best laker ever..i thought it was that video..

but here..West says Kobe is the greatest laker player ever >>http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a4KUntexwuM

(opens pocket)....get in son!

Pat Riley says Kobe is near Jordan - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0565oawy9Ak&feature=related

3 HOFers are not the majority....but I guarantee their views are alot closer then 10 bias Hater elitists fans...

ask those same 10 fans if Kobe should be player of the decade?...I guarantee that they won't even put him in the top 2.....when in REALITY he DESTROYED and ran away with bieng voted as the greatest player of his generation by the real fans.



next

[catch24]

comprehend much?

"if Kobe can win one more championship (video was from 2009) he is right up there with Magic and maybe ahead.....if he wins 6 Titles...then he is right there as the GOAT"

That vid is from 2010...right after the Suns series.

[AlphaWolf24]

That vid is from 2010...right after the Suns series.


ok...my fault....but it was still before the lakers beat the Celtics...

cot dayum....come on son....

and did you watch The Logo say plain as day Kobe is the GOAL??.....yeah...now hush...(opens pocket)



next

[-Original-]

i'll take Kobe over both.

[raptorfan_dr07]

So basically this project was single handedly ruined by Alphafag throwing a tantrum because the majority of fans believe Magic is better than Kobe. Way to go, moron. Is there a reason Jeff hasn't banned him yet?

Your man crush on Kobe isn't changing anything. Seek professional help because it's really kinda disturbing to be this infatuated with a man you've never met. This board will be much better off without you.

[AlphaWolf24]

So basically this project was single handedly ruined by Alphafag throwing a tantrum because the majority of fans believe Magic is better than Kobe. Way to go, moron. Is there a reason Jeff hasn't banned him yet?

Your man crush on Kobe isn't changing anything. Seek professional help because it's really kinda disturbing to be this infatuated with a man you've never met. This board will be much better off without you.


so you just logged on to say that?:roll: Go away Sock Puppet..you are the real troll.

I bring life and originality...and i point out the soul of basketball that captures our hearts and imagination....


you give nothing except tired insults and false fronts.....


I AM THE BRINGER OF RAIN.....recognize game when it's in yo face...



next

[catch24]

ok...my fault....but it was still before the lakers beat the Celtics...

cot dayum....come on son....

and did you watch The Logo say plain as day Kobe is the GOAL??.....yeah...now hush...(opens pocket)



next

Quit with that "opens pocket" crap. You're not owning anyone, let alone putting them in your "pocket". Save your venom for those who cannot write in coherent English. Jerry West said he's never seen Kobe play better (again, referencing the Suns series) and called him the GREATEST Laker, which can be argued. I personally think Magic and Kareem are/were better, but if Kobe can add another title and Finals MVP to his already brilliant resume, then he'd definitely have a strong case as the greatest Laker and a top 5-7 player all-time (depending how he plays obviously).

As far as Magic vs Kobe goes...it's close. Kobe gives you the scoring and D, magic gives you the play-making and leadership.

[AlphaWolf24]

Quit with that "opens pocket" crap. You're not owning anyone, let alone putting them in your "pocket". Save your venom for those who cannot write in coherent English. Jerry West said he's never seen Kobe play better (again, referencing the Suns series) and called him the GREATEST Laker, which can be argued. I personally think Magic and Kareem are/were better, but if Kobe can add another title and Finals MVP to his already brilliant resume, then he'd definitely have a strong case as the greatest Laker and a top 5-7 player all-time (depending how he plays obviously).

As far as Magic vs Kobe goes...it's close. Kobe gives you the scoring and D, magic gives you the play-making and leadership.


so it was your sock??...


:roll: I knew it...you def in my pocket


next

[catch24]

so it was your sock??...

What?

[AlphaWolf24]

What?


nevermind...



anyways....you are wrong on Both counts..

Worthy said "If Kobe wins his 5th...he is right there with Magic as the greatest Laker ever"

West said "Kobe is the best Laker of alltime...and then went into further detail"

not sure what it is that keeps some from recognizing greatness....but for the majority of basketball fans we have no problem at all....

some people need to apply themselves i guess...


next

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Because of the magnitude of the difference in Jordan's scoring/defensive impact as compared to Kobe's scoring/defensive impact. It's not that Kobe isn't a better scorer/defender than Magic - he is. But he's not AS MUCH of a better scorer/defender than Magic as Jordan is. It's the SIZE of Jordan's edge/impact in those areas (as well as his superior intangibles, rebounding, and passing/playmkaing) as compared to Kobe that allows him to trump Magic's advantages whereas Kobe does not. There is no contradiction there, because the SIZE of the difference between Magic/MJ as scorers/defenders is not the same as the SIZE of the difference between Magic/Kobe as scorers/defenders (and again, Jordan's intangibles, rebounding, and passing edge over Kobe also factors in).

I see your point, but I disagree about Kobe's scoring/defense not greatly outclassing Magic's. The gap between Magic's passing/playmaking and Kobe's is as big as the gap between Kobe's scoring/defense and Magic's imo

[catch24]

nevermind...



anyways....you are wrong on Both counts..

Worthy said "If Kobe wins his 5th...he is right there with Magic as the greatest Laker ever"

Where did I say you misquoted Worthy? I'm confused :confusedshrug:


West said "Kobe is the best Laker of alltime...and then went into further detail"

Again, relevance?


not sure what it is that keeps some from recognizing greatness....but for the majority of basketball fans we have no problem at all....

Michael Jordan, Wilt, Magic and Bird all destroyed Kobe in a recent 'GOAT' poll. Your take?

http://www.interbasket.net/news/6831/2010/06/jordan-magic-bird-in-top-5-nba-players-all-time-kobe-bryant-8/

[Boston C's]

Where did I say you misquoted Worthy? I'm confused :confusedshrug:



Again, relevance?



Michael Jordan, Wilt, Magic and Bird all destroyed Kobe in a recent 'GOAT' poll. Your take?

http://www.interbasket.net/news/6831/2010/06/jordan-magic-bird-in-top-5-nba-players-all-time-kobe-bryant-8/


Owned

[Legends66NBA7]

Owned

This was ignored by Alpha as well:

http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/comparison_nba_stars.htm

http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/comparison_current_stars.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u69SCU79_O0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJJRwfGPOMA&feature=channel_video_title

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Epu-7ITO4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGbuEjt-KIc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVQElmVtzeU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tODAB-DfwK4

[AlphaWolf24]

Where did I say you misquoted Worthy? I'm confused :confusedshrug:



Again, relevance?



Michael Jordan, Wilt, Magic and Bird all destroyed Kobe in a recent 'GOAT' poll. Your take?

http://www.interbasket.net/news/6831/2010/06/jordan-magic-bird-in-top-5-nba-players-all-time-kobe-bryant-8/

from your link..


Before the 2010 NBA finals began, Interbasket asked 54 sportswriters, analysts, and basketball experts from around the country to name the top 5 NBA players of all-time. Not a completely surprising list, but there are some interesting results.


1. Michael Jordan 50 of 54 (92.6%)
2. Magic Johnson 44 of 54 (81.5%)
3. Wilt Chamberlain 37 of 54 (68.5%)
4. Larry Bird 35 of 54 (64.8%)
5. Bill Russell 30 of 54 (55.6%)
6. Oscar Robertson 24 of 54 (44.4%)
7. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 22 of 54 (40.7%)
8. Kobe Bryant 10 of 54 (40.7%)

so before Kobe won his 5th ring i would agree....maybe not the greatest laker ever...or even ahead of Magic....but since the article was before Kobe won his 5th...then it's fair to say he surpassed the 8th spot in those reporters views...right?...and it's also fair to say that he surpassed Magic in many people's eyes....right?...

again....those reporters ranked him 8th alltime before the 2010 Finals...he clearly is going to move up...and he clearly is recognized by many as the GOAL's


now on to the Jerry West.....Clear as day..not the just greatest laker....

The Greatest laker of alltime ..

West - "[Kobe's] playing the best basketball I have ever seen him play to be honest with you. [...] There's no better player that I've ever seen than him... He's the greatest Laker player that we have ever seen."

[AlphaWolf24]

This was ignored by Alpha as well:

http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/comparison_nba_stars.htm

http://www.michaeljordansworld.com/comparison_current_stars.htm

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N6og_pOVi2w

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u69SCU79_O0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AJJRwfGPOMA&feature=channel_video_title

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q4Epu-7ITO4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xGbuEjt-KIc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SVQElmVtzeU

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tODAB-DfwK4

(Clicks on website...last updated in 2008....uses flawed stats.....Kobe barely playing 10 minutes a game when he was 18 knocking his career averages...)....(laughs)...(facepalms).....

[RRR3]

OmegaMutt getting owned :roll:
http://fotos.fotoflexer.com/225dae39d3bfce93ed069a6992aabcb0.jpg

[catch24]

Before the 2010 NBA finals began, Interbasket asked 54 sportswriters, analysts, and basketball experts from around the country to name the top 5 NBA players of all-time. Not a completely surprising list, but there are some interesting results.


1. Michael Jordan 50 of 54 (92.6%)
2. Magic Johnson 44 of 54 (81.5%)
3. Wilt Chamberlain 37 of 54 (68.5%)
4. Larry Bird 35 of 54 (64.8%)
5. Bill Russell 30 of 54 (55.6%)
6. Oscar Robertson 24 of 54 (44.4%)
7. Kareem Abdul-Jabbar 22 of 54 (40.7%)
8. Kobe Bryant 10 of 54 (40.7%)

so before Kobe won his 5th ring i would agree....maybe not the greatest laker ever...or even ahead of Magic....but since the article was before Kobe won his 5th...then it's fair to say he surpassed the 8th spot in those reporters views...right?...and it's also fair to say that he surpassed Magic in many people's eyes....right?...

Well, I think those are interesting questions, but if you don't mind, let me interject and ask why you feel that 5th ring leaped-frogged Kobe into the top 2 (right with Jordan...or in 'GOAT status')?

I understand what Jerry West said. Like I've stated, Kobe. vs Magic is pretty damn close, a lot closer than Jordan vs. Kobe at least.

[SourPatchKids]

Ray with 2642 3's now.