Who will Blake Griffin be the next version of?

[SpecialQue]

The new Vince Carter?
The new Lebron?
The new Tim Duncan?
WHO?

Will he stay with the Clippers and lead them to victory, or head elsewhere and become the most hated man in LA (unless he becomes a Laker :D )?

Speculate.

[Miserio]

He's gonna be the new Blake Griffin. He looks like an improved and more physically gifted version of Shawn Kemp.

[Miller for 3]

Steve Francis. Out of the league within 3 years. Bank on it

[AI3Anthony]

Stop the comparisons. Let him be himself and create his own legacy.

[Clippersfan86]

The new Vince Carter?
The new Lebron?
The new Tim Duncan?
WHO?

Will he stay with the Clippers and lead them to victory, or head elsewhere and become the most hated man in LA (unless he becomes a Laker :D )?

Speculate.

Clipper his entire career. I think the closest comparison is a bigger, more athletic Barkley for sure. So he's the new Barkley I guess but due to his athleticism I think he's a completely unique player. Better than skill set than both Kemp and Amare. Scariest thing like Barkley said is that he doesn't even know how to play yet really. He's getting by mostly on instincts and athleticism.

Blake's a natural born leader and winner though. I expect him to win at least 1-2 rings and not leave the game ring less like Malone or Barkley. Especially if Eric Gordon turns into the superstar he looks like he's going to. The team has a lot of potential to dominate over the next 10+ years.

I think a peak stat line of about...

28-30 ppg
13-14 rpg
5 apg
1 bpg
1.5 spg

on efficient numbers isn't out of the question at all for him. That combination of stats puts him at near identical peak Barkley numbers. He's got more defensive potential than Barkley though IMO.

[ThaRegul8r]

Why can't Blake Griffin just be the first Blake Griffin?

:confusedshrug:

[G-train]

He's gonna be the new Blake Griffin. He looks like an improved and more physically gifted version of Shawn Kemp.

Pretty arguable that he is more physically gifted than Kemp.

[AI3Anthony]

Clipper his entire career. I think the closest comparison is a bigger, more athletic Barkley for sure. So he's the new Barkley I guess but due to his athleticism I think he's a completely unique player. Better than skill set than both Kemp and Amare. Scariest thing like Barkley said is that he doesn't even know how to play yet really. He's getting by mostly on instincts and athleticism.

Blake's a natural born leader and winner though. I expect him to win at least 1-2 rings and not leave the game ring less like Malone or Barkley. Especially if Eric Gordon turns into the superstar he looks like he's going to. The team has a lot of potential to dominate over the next 10+ years.

I think a peak stat line of about...

28-30 ppg
13-14 rpg
5 apg
1 bpg
1.5 spg

on efficient numbers isn't out of the question at all for him. That combination of stats puts him at near identical peak Barkley numbers. He's got more defensive potential than Barkley though IMO.

A little bit of homerism in this post. I too believe Blake will be an incredible player. But, saying the Clips have potential to dominate for 10+ years is a little far-fetched to me.

[AI3Anthony]

Why can't Blake Griffin just be the first Blake Griffin?

:confusedshrug:

Exactly.

[G-train]

Clipper his entire career. I think the closest comparison is a bigger, more athletic Barkley for sure. So he's the new Barkley I guess but due to his athleticism I think he's a completely unique player.

He leaps higher than Barkley, but Barkley leaped quicker.
I dont really see the comparison, Barkley was 6'5 and played like a guard with low post skills, but was strong enough and could leap high enough to play the 4. Barkely was a much better shooter, even at the same age.

Griffin plays like a stereotypical 4, who is extremely athletic and occasionally handles the ball.
He is pretty similar to Kemp.

[Clippersfan86]

A little bit of homerism in this post. I too believe Blake will be an incredible player. But, saying the Clips have potential to dominate for 10+ years is a little far-fetched to me.

I didn't say they will dominate.. I said they have the POTENTIAL to. Give me 1 good logical reason as to why the Clippers can't be a dominant force going forward besides "Because they are the Clippers" :rolleyes:.

Comon dude. Tell me. Which team has a better core of young, talented players besides maybe the Thunder? The Clippers aren't going to be like the Heat or Knicks. Where they have 3 really good players and a bunch of scrubs/role players. They aren't a 1 man team like the Bulls (Boozer sucks). They literally are stacked at 4 out of 5 positions. If they get a great rookie in 2012 draft or use it to trade for a star SF like they are trying to do... WHY can't they dominate?

[DuMa]

Barkley + Amare combo

[Ikill]

next Barkley

[G-train]

A little bit of homerism in this post. I too believe Blake will be an incredible player. But, saying the Clips have potential to dominate for 10+ years is a little far-fetched to me.

Fez has a good heart but his love of the Clippers does blur his judgement. Clipps will need to significantly upgrade defensively and their role players to sniff the playoffs.

[G-train]

I didn't say they will dominate.. I said they have the POTENTIAL to. Give me 1 good logical reason as to why the Clippers can't be a dominant force going forward besides "Because they are the Clippers" :rolleyes:.



Donald Sterling.

[G-train]

They literally are stacked at 4 out of 5 positions.

They arent stacked at any position. They have 2 great young players and Kaman & Mo.

[Clippersfan86]

He leaps higher than Barkley, but Barkley leaped quicker.
I dont really see the comparison, Barkley was 6'5 and played like a guard with low post skills, but was strong enough and could leap high enough to play the 4. Barkely was a much better shooter, even at the same age.

Griffin plays like a stereotypical 4, who is extremely athletic and occasionally handles the ball.
He is pretty similar to Kemp.

Besides the body type if you just watch their games it becomes clear. Both average or sub par defenders. Both love to bang in the post on offense. Both are amazing ballhandlers and superb passers as PF's. Both of them are lightning quick for the position and have a court vision that no other PF's besides KG and Chris Webber have possessed. How many rookie bigs average 4 assists a game?

I was leaning towards Malone earlier in season but when I watch Blake.. I see a lot of a young Barkley. He's not as skilled right out of the gate nor is his shot as good but he's an all around better raw athlete.

[G-train]

Barkley + Amare combo

People saying this and next Barkley need to realise they are making the call that he will be the greatest power forward ever.

[Ikill]

He leaps higher than Barkley, but Barkley leaped quicker.
I dont really see the comparison, Barkley was 6'5 and played like a guard with low post skills, but was strong enough and could leap high enough to play the 4. Barkely was a much better shooter, even at the same age.

Griffin plays like a stereotypical 4, who is extremely athletic and occasionally handles the ball.
He is pretty similar to Kemp.
it seems like Barkley had really long arms

[G-train]

Besides the body type if you just watch their games it becomes clear. Both average or sub par defenders. Both love to bang in the post on offense. Both are amazing ballhandlers and superb passers as PF's. Both of them are lightning quick for the position and have a court vision that no other PF's besides KG and Chris Webber have possessed. How many rookie bigs average 4 assists a game?

I was leaning towards Malone earlier in season but when I watch Blake.. I see a lot of a young Barkley. He's not as skilled right out of the gate nor is his shot as good but he's an all around better raw athlete.

I think many of those statements are slightly exaggerated.

[DaPerceive]

He resembles Charley Barkley's style of play, but that doesn't mean he is going to be the next Charles Barkley. Barkley and Griffin both played in unique styles, coincidentally, they resemble each other's style.

[G-train]

He resembles Charley Barkley's style of play, but that doesn't mean he is going to be the next Charles Barkley. Barkley and Griffin both played in unique styles, coincidentally, they resemble each other's style.

I see very little resemblance.

[Clippersfan86]

Fez has a good heart but his love of the Clippers does blur his judgement. Clipps will need to significantly upgrade defensively and their role players to sniff the playoffs.

The Clippers were the 2nd ranked overall defense after Miami from mid December to mid January. They have great defenders and great defensive potential. They need to stay healthy and build more chemistry and you'll see. Here is our depth chart...

Mo Williams/Eric Bledsoe
Eric Gordon/Randy Foye
Ryan Gomes/Al Farouq Aminu (weak link on team)
Blake Griffin/Craig Smith
Chris Kaman/DeAndre Jordan

Name all the better depth charts you can think of? Randy Foye put up 17 ppg as a starter for 20+ games last season and was a starter for years before coming to the Clippers. Craig Smith has had a top 3 PER for bench players almost every season of his career. Kaman and DeAndre were voted the best center tandem in the league. Mo Williams/Bledsoe is obviously a top 10 PG rotation. The only weakness in our lineup is SF.

[Clippersfan86]

People saying this and next Barkley need to realise they are making the call that he will be the greatest power forward ever.

He's a lock to be a top 5 PF ever in most people's opinions I've talked to assuming he stays healthy. Hell 3 NBA players this year said he has a real chance to be the GOAT PF. Keyon Dooling, Craig Smith and Marcus Camby have all been around the league for a long time. I doubt they would throw that around lightly.

[SuperPippen]

Clipper his entire career. I think the closest comparison is a bigger, more athletic Barkley for sure. So he's the new Barkley I guess but due to his athleticism I think he's a completely unique player. Better than skill set than both Kemp and Amare. Scariest thing like Barkley said is that he doesn't even know how to play yet really. He's getting by mostly on instincts and athleticism.

Blake's a natural born leader and winner though. I expect him to win at least 1-2 rings and not leave the game ring less like Malone or Barkley. Especially if Eric Gordon turns into the superstar he looks like he's going to. The team has a lot of potential to dominate over the next 10+ years.

I think a peak stat line of about...

28-30 ppg
13-14 rpg
5 apg
1 bpg
1.5 spg

on efficient numbers isn't out of the question at all for him. That combination of stats puts him at near identical peak Barkley numbers. He's got more defensive potential than Barkley though IMO.

Your homerism really shines through in this post.

I'm a Blake fan, and I understand that finally having a potentially transcendent, superstar-caliber player on your team after decades of mediocrity is exciting but you just can't expect him to drop ballsy numbers like that. Seriously, 5 assists? Blake's a good passer, and his supporting cast should only get better, but 5 assists per game is, IMO, pretty far-fetched.

I also think his rebounding numbers are never going to increase drastically from what they were this season. His scoring is definitely going to improve, but I really don't see 30 PPG.

I personally see a peak Blake season of:

around 27 PPG on 53% shooting
13 RPG
4 APG
1.5 BPG
1 SPG

While doubling as the most exciting and terrifying player in the league.

To quote Charles Barkley, "I may be wrong, but I doubt it."

[G-train]

Mo Williams/Eric Bledsoe
Eric Gordon/Randy Foye
Ryan Gomes/Al Farouq Aminu (weak link on team)
Blake Griffin/Craig Smith
Chris Kaman/DeAndre Jordan


Bolded are either overrated or simply not very good.

[G-train]

He's a lock to be a top 5 PF ever in most people's opinions I've talked to assuming he stays healthy. Hell 3 NBA players this year said he has a real chance to be the GOAT PF. Keyon Dooling, Craig Smith and Marcus Camby have all been around the league for a long time. I doubt they would throw that around lightly.

He is far from a lock. He has played one season at 22/12.
To consider him a lock over Duncan, Malone, Barkley, Dirk, Garnett, Mchale, Pettit, Hayes is pretty insulting to those players.
He is no more a lock at top 5 power forward than Melo was a lock at top 5 small forward after his rookie season.

[kaiiu]

Bolded are either overrated or simply not very good.
:oldlol:

[Clippersfan86]

Your homerism really shines through in this post.

I'm a Blake fan, and I understand that finally having a potentially transcendent, superstar-caliber player on your team after decades of mediocrity is exciting but you just can't expect him to drop ballsy numbers like that. Seriously, 5 assists? Blake's a good passer, and his supporting cast should only get better, but 5 assists per game is, IMO, pretty far-fetched.

I also think his rebounding numbers are never going to increase drastically from what they were this season. His scoring is definitely going to improve, but I really don't see 30 PPG.

I personally see a peak Blake season of:

around 27 PPG on 53% shooting
13 RPG
4 APG
1.5 BPG
1 SPG

While doubling as the most exciting and terrifying player in the league.

To quote Charles Barkley, "I may be wrong, but I doubt it."

:facepalm . So you think it's unrealistic that a rookie who put up 4 apg as a rookie can push it out to 5 at his peak/prime when he improves at reading defenses???

[Clippersfan86]

He is far from a lock. He has played one season at 22/12.
To consider him a lock over Duncan, Malone, Barkley, Dirk, Garnett, Mchale, Pettit, Hayes is pretty insulting to those players.
He is no more a lock at top 5 power forward than Melo was a lock at top 5 small forward after his rookie season.

Blake had a much better all around individual rookie season and is in a MUCH smaller rookie numbers company than Melo was. Even if he stays at 22 ppg, 12 rpg and 4 apg over the the next 8-10 years and makes the Clippers a contender... how isn't that top 5 worthy? The only guys he's unlikely to pass at this point are Duncan, Malone and Barkley. Dirk, Garnett, Mchale, Pettit and Hayes are very much within his sights if he stays healthy and keeps improving.

[L.Kizzle]

Actually, if you go back in history, he's like a carbon copy of guys like Gus Johnson and George McGinnis and later on Larry Johnson.

[Clippersfan86]

Actually, if you go back in history, he's like a carbon copy of guys like Gus Johnson and George McGinnis and later on Larry Johnson.

I never got to watch those guys. Were they really good?

[SuperPippen]

:facepalm . So you think it's unrealistic that a rookie who put up 4 apg as a rookie can push it out to 5 at his peak/prime when he improves at reading defenses???

To put it bluntly, yes. Yes I do.

[L.Kizzle]

I never got to watch those guys. Were they really good?
Yes, similar body structures and styles. LJ was the most recent, Johnson was a 60s star and McGinnis a 70s star.

[G-train]

I never got to watch those guys. Were they really good?

You talk about Barkley yet you never saw LJ?

[NuggetsFan]

Blake's a natural born leader and winner though

Based on what? Some promo's the Clippers have put out? Because he had a great rookie year? Because a few teammates complimented him?.

He won at the HS level. He dominated individually at the college level but never won a national championship. He won 32 games in his rookie season. Just saying. A player who's a 2nd year guy shouldn't be getting those types of statements about them till they prove it. You want to call Derrick Rose a winner? I can live with that because he's proven it on the NBA level.

I think he has potential to be a better version of Amare PRE injury witch is saying something. I think he'll be able to match Amare's offensive output while being better at things like rebounding\passing the ball to teammates. Both players thus far have the same weaknesses, defense. I can see Blake shoring it up as time passe but at the end of the day being nothing far too special at that end. Both dynamic offense PF's, Blake just being more rounded in every category.

[Gotterdammerung]

I never got to watch those guys. Were they really good?

Despite a near-mythic combination of talent and skill in a 6' 8" 235 pounds package, George McGinnis was an overrated superstar. Imagine a LeBron James with less self-discipline unleashed on the ABA.

Despite gaudy numbers like 30 ppg, 9.2 rebounds, 6 dimes in 1975 (ABA) he threw away the ball 5 times a game. 422 times that year. :eek:

After he joined the NBA? 312 in 78, 346 in 79. :facepalm

He was a ball-stopping, horribly moody teammate, shitty defender with little fundamentals. :facepalm

[L.Kizzle]

Despite a near-mythic combination of talent and skill in a 6' 8" 235 pounds package, George McGinnis was an overrated superstar. Imagine a LeBron James with less self-discipline unleashed on the ABA.

Despite gaudy numbers like 30 ppg, 9.2 rebounds, 6 dimes in 1975 (ABA) he threw away the ball 5 times a game. 422 times that year. :eek:

After he joined the NBA? 312 in 78, 346 in 79. :facepalm

He was a ball-stopping, horribly moody teammate, shitty defender with little fundamentals. :facepalm
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z8tkDEUijz4

[Clippersfan86]

You talk about Barkley yet you never saw LJ?

I saw Larry Johnson of course. I watched the Hornets with him and Zo. I meant the other 2.

[Clippersfan86]

Based on what? Some promo's the Clippers have put out? Because he had a great rookie year? Because a few teammates complimented him?.

He won at the HS level. He dominated individually at the college level but never won a national championship. He won 32 games in his rookie season. Just saying. A player who's a 2nd year guy shouldn't be getting those types of statements about them till they prove it. You want to call Derrick Rose a winner? I can live with that because he's proven it on the NBA level.

I think he has potential to be a better version of Amare PRE injury witch is saying something. I think he'll be able to match Amare's offensive output while being better at things like rebounding\passing the ball to teammates. Both players thus far have the same weaknesses, defense. I can see Blake shoring it up as time passe but at the end of the day being nothing far too special at that end. Both dynamic offense PF's, Blake just being more rounded in every category.

I agree the "winner" thing is debatable to this point. The leader thing isn't though. Did anyone have to tell you Brandon Roy was a great, young rookie leader? Or did you just see it? Blake's got that rare "It" factor. The last player I saw that in to this level was young Lebron. Blake's not just playing the hardest and best. He's the player on our team telling teammates where to go and getting on them when he needs to.

He's the vocal leader on this team as well as our on the court leader. Both very rare traits in a player with his experience level. His fire is his most underrated and least observed attribute. He led the team in technical fouls and probably had the most altercations of any player in the league this year. That tenacity, competitiveness and confidence is HUGE. He's got intangibles in spades.

[el gringos]

Should be an nba 3- its just too easy to play hiim at pf

[Clippersfan86]

Should be an nba 3- its just too easy to play hiim at pf

:D

[Clippersfan86]

Train another reason Blake is similar to Barkley is they both have AMAZING motors and hustle like garbage men fighting for playing time. Outside of Barkley, Rodman and maybe Ben Wallace I've never seen a player with that nonstop motor Blake has.

[Miserio]

Train another reason Blake is similar to Barkley is they both have AMAZING motors and hustle like garbage men fighting for playing time. Outside of Barkley, Rodman and maybe Ben Wallace I've never seen a player with that nonstop motor Blake has.
HOMER FACKING B1TCH.

[dee-rose]

While the current team is pretty exciting, I think it's a lot more exciting that the Clips may have 2 lotto picks in a loaded draft this year. Get some Barnes, get some Teague, get some Ws.

[Cali Syndicate]

Blake had a much better all around individual rookie season and is in a MUCH smaller rookie numbers company than Melo was. Even if he stays at 22 ppg, 12 rpg and 4 apg over the the next 8-10 years and makes the Clippers a contender... how isn't that top 5 worthy? The only guys he's unlikely to pass at this point are Duncan, Malone and Barkley. Dirk, Garnett, Mchale, Pettit and Hayes are very much within his sights if he stays healthy and keeps improving.

22/12/4 for a rookie is a great start but doing that every season for 8-10 seasons is a long ways away. If he does pull out a career of that magnitude with a few deep playoff runs as a contender, top 5 isn't out of the question.

At this point tho he's a stronger and more athletic Shawn Kemp.

[NugzFan]

Clipper his entire career.

no chance.

[NugzFan]

HOMER FACKING B1TCH.

its cute how upset he got when i called him the biggest homer on this site. its so true. i cant even see how he denies it - in fact i think he goes out of his way to prove how big of a homer he is. :oldlol:

[senelcoolidge]

He does play like a bigger Barkley, but he's also like a classic PF. Like someone mentioned an Elvin Hayes or Gus Johnson. Guys that banged inside..classic Power forwards. They do all the dirty work and excel on the boards and post. Griffin is better than Kemp already. Kemp = underachiever. I also agree about the motor, I don't know what other player in the game today has a motor like his. Lazy ass Lamar Odom wanted to fight Griffin just because Griff played too hard. He has that "It" factor. He's quiet on the floor and let's his game do the talking. Special player indeed. He's the next version of himself.

[Dave3]

People saying this and next Barkley need to realise they are making the call that he will be the greatest power forward ever.
This. Blake is freaking amazing for a rookie but Barkley was insane. Based on the opinions of the more respectable members on this forum who watched the NBA in the 80's/90's Barkley was second to one player - the freaking GOAT. That puts him peak up there with players like Duncan/LeBron/Kobe/Hakeem etc. His stats seem to confirm this pretty well, and I'm sure if he won 2 or 3 rings he'd easily be top 10 all time.

Griffin can be that good, but it's definitely not as likely as "he's a future Barkley" He's going to work hard as hell and improve dramatically to reach that level of dominance. Let's remember, Barkley had a perimeter dimension to his game that Griffin is nowhere near, so his post game/defensive game will have to become that much better to make up for that.

[alenleomessi]

he will be better than sir charles

[sh0wtime]

Shawn Kemp pops up to my mind every time i watch Blake.

[clipps]

Blake Griffin is a phenomenal player and no one can deny that. Theres no question about it that he'll get better. The question is; how much better will he be. Griffin is similar to Chuck and with the athleticism of Amare. What separates BG from other rookies is his basketball IQ. Although, as good as he already is, he still has a lot to improve. For a rookie, he's already taken the role as a leader and with some trial and error, he'll become a better leader as he learns the game some more.

Some major things he needs to work on is improving his midrange shot and freethrow shooting. He's shown that he can shoot, and even made a couple of 3's (including a huge game saving 30 footer during crunch time) with confidence. I'm sure his shot will improve enough for defenders to respect it. He also needs to work on his interior D. He may have short arms, but I won't use that as an excuse because he's still 6'10" with the athleticism of an athletic guard and should develope into a good defender down low. The last main thing he needs to work on is not rushing himself/getting exciting. Despite have a great level of basketball IQ, he still has made some rookie mistakes, but at the same time, many great players in the past have made mistakes their rookie seasons... In fact, one of the best players in the league in the league and future HOFer shot 3 air balls against the Utah Jazz during his rookie career. There are some other minor things that don't stand out as much that Griffin needs to work on but that'll come through time once he's more polished. Considering the skill, basketball IQ and hard work/dedication he has for the game, I'm confident he'll improve on most of his weaknesses. He'll be a great player.

People like to believe that Griffin will bolt once his rookie contract is up, but don't forget. He'll be a restricted FA which means the Clippers have all the leverage in the world. The last time the Clippers had a player that was either an All-star level player or close to it(he definitely got snubbed a couple of years) was Elton Brand and Sterling re-signed him. Blake Griffin has more talent in one of his ass hairs than Elton Brand ever dreamed of having and is a cash cow and Sterling loves money so you can bet on Griffin staying in Clipperland.

[rodman91]

If he works hard, he might be next Shawn Kemp.. Maybe Barkley in future but it's not that easy.

Saying next Barkley is assuming he will be GOAT PF or at least second best PF.

[bizil]

I think numbers wise, Blake will be like a prime Barkley. But in terms of style of play he combines the freakish athletic ability of Amare, Kemp, or prime Mcdyess with the strength and work ethic of Karl Malone. Which is a SCARY combination. Imagine Malone with the athletic ability of a Kemp all rolled into one! That's what u will get with Griff!

[RRR3]

I'm not sure some people realize how ****ing great Barkley was.

[Darius]

More athletic/fluid C-Webb... hopefully with more mental toughness.

[Clippersfan86]

I think you guys are misunderstanding the OP as well as myself. Next version of to me means style of play, similar game etc. I never claimed Blake is going to be equal to Barkley or surpass him. I just said he's got a similar game. You guys nerd raging and calling me homer and all that trash need to work on the comprehension skills.

There are a lot of similarities in their game and Blake's had a better start to his career statistically. That doesn't mean I think Blake will or won't be better. It's WAY too soon for anyone to talk about that. I personally think he's a lock for being around top 5-7 PF ever IF he stays healthy and brings success to the Clippers... as well as maintains or improves his current numbers over 8-10 more seasons. Lots of if's. You guys kissing Charles ass ironically are the ones being homers. He's ranked 3rd by most on all time PF list.. yet you guys are calling him the GOAT PF and best player of the 90's after Jordan? Both which are false. You wouldn't take prime Hakeem or D Rob...or Shaq over Barkley? :rolleyes:

Barkley unfortunately had a poor work ethic and conditioning issues like Shaq. Always fat and poorly conditioned in the second half of his career. That's obviously something Blake won't have to worry about. Sure Charles managed to still have a dominant career but imagine if he worked harder? Imagine if he took fitness more seriously? He could of been that much greater. I honestly think Blake's massive edge in this department alone... should have people believing that he CAN be a top 5 PF ever.

Scottie Pippin: "Charles doesn't know what hard work is".


He also implied that Charles lack of work ethic and conditioning cost him a ring. You guys call me a homer but you're REALLY choosing to see Charles in the best light possible here and overrating the guy. He's not better than Duncan and he's not better than Malone.

You guys are totally twisting what I said around though and trying to act like I'm making ridiculous claims.

[Clippersfan86]

no chance.

We'll see in a few years won't we? He's at least going to stay his entire peak. CBA should make it harder for people to Lebron teams. Not to mention he's restricted. What's a better situation for him to play in talent wise that can afford to max him like we can?

[RRR3]

How the **** is he a lock for top 5-7 at pf? He's played one ****ing season.

[Crown&Coke]

I think he's going to be a rebounding STAT. Pre-microfracture Amare was a beast. His quickness and explosiveness is very comparable to Griffin, but Griffin is much stronger than STAT.

Once he unveils that jumper he's been working on. Neither are good shot blockers (although STAT has improved in that) both can take a charge. Neither are known as defenders, both try to dunk on anything that moves, or anything around the basket. I think there is a poster with a ball-boy and a ref getting dunked on

STAT has a bigger ego, but I think Griffin realizes he is an all-world talent himself, he just doesn't go around pounding his chest and telling everyone he awesome he is.

[Clippersfan86]

How the **** is he a lock for top 5-7 at pf? He's played one ****ing season.

Let me ask you a question.

If he continues to average 22, 12 and 4 over the next let's say 9 seasons. Improving those numbers maybe by a little in that time. He leads the Clippers into/past the 2nd and 3rd round of the playoffs a handful of times. Where would you rank him? IF means assuming he meets the criteria... he will be where I said obviously. Let's say guy is injury prone rest of his career... or he can't lead the Clippers anywhere. Obviously he won't be in the discussion. You can't see Griffin being a top PF when it's all said and done? A few NBA players have said they can see him being a GOAT PF.

You guys are so short sighted that it makes me sad. When it comes to sports if you're into them enough and have watched enough you can identify that "It" factor. That greatness factor. You see the character and work ethic in a player that tells you... no matter what comes his way he's going to rise above. He already rose above a knee injury that cost him a season in a resounding way.

Over the next couple seasons when you guys see what I see... and start to see Griffin develop into the monster I'm saying he will.... you'll stop viewing me as a homer and start viewing me as a visionary. An optimist. A faithful fan.

[Clippersfan86]

I think he's going to be a rebounding STAT. Pre-microfracture Amare was a beast. His quickness and explosiveness is very comparable to Griffin, but Griffin is much stronger than STAT.

Once he unveils that jumper he's been working on. Neither are good shot blockers (although STAT has improved in that) both can take a charge. Neither are known as defenders, both try to dunk on anything that moves, or anything around the basket. I think there is a poster with a ball-boy and a ref getting dunked on

STAT has a bigger ego, but I think Griffin realizes he is an all-world talent himself, he just doesn't go around pounding his chest and telling everyone he awesome he is.

I think a better rebounding, stronger, harder working STAT with a better attitude would be the 2nd comparison on my list. That Knicks game where Griffin and Amare went at it was crazy exciting and they definitely both played similar when Amare was younger. Thing is now Amare spends half his time shooting the midrange shot. I hope Blake develops it.. but never relies on it as much as Amare.

[Crown&Coke]

I think a better rebounding, stronger, harder working STAT with a better attitude would be the 2nd comparison on my list. That Knicks game where Griffin and Amare went at it was crazy exciting and they definitely both played similar when Amare was younger. Thing is now Amare spends half his time shooting the midrange shot. I hope Blake develops it.. but never relies on it as much as Amare.

I feel ya.

But STAT is a pretty hard worker himself the past 2-3 years. And coming back from a microfracture takes a lot of heart, guts and hard work. He just coasted on his talent his first 4-5 years because he was so good. But I agree that Griff is a terror at working out. He was ready to play his first rookie year but the Clips wanted him to chill (and that will pay dividends later for them if the NBA continues to pay guys based on years of experience, because his first rookie year don't count since he didn't play a single reg. season game.)

But Amare does shoot a lot of jumpers, but thats partially because his low post game is below average imo. Griff already moves people out of the way with 3 power dribbles down low, he just goes too fast when time to finish a layup. Once he gets a little more experience and slows down, his low post game will really take off.

[Clippersfan86]

I feel ya.

But STAT is a pretty hard worker himself the past 2-3 years. And coming back from a microfracture takes a lot of heart, guts and hard work. He just coasted on his talent his first 4-5 years because he was so good. But I agree that Griff is a terror at working out. He was ready to play his first rookie year but the Clips wanted him to chill (and that will pay dividends later for them if the NBA continues to pay guys based on years of experience, because his first rookie year don't count since he didn't play a single reg. season game.)

But Amare does shoot a lot of jumpers, but thats partially because his low post game is below average imo. Griff already moves people out of the way with 3 power dribbles down low, he just goes too fast when time to finish a layup. Once he gets a little more experience and slows down, his low post game will really take off.

Yea Amare was never a back to the basket player like Griffin. More of a face up and attack type.

[NugzFan]

Blake Griffin is a phenomenal player and no one can deny that. Theres no question about it that he'll get better. The question is; how much better will he be. Griffin is similar to Chuck and with the athleticism of Amare. What separates BG from other rookies is his basketball IQ. Although, as good as he already is, he still has a lot to improve. For a rookie, he's already taken the role as a leader and with some trial and error, he'll become a better leader as he learns the game some more.

Some major things he needs to work on is improving his midrange shot and freethrow shooting. He's shown that he can shoot, and even made a couple of 3's (including a huge game saving 30 footer during crunch time) with confidence. I'm sure his shot will improve enough for defenders to respect it. He also needs to work on his interior D. He may have short arms, but I won't use that as an excuse because he's still 6'10" with the athleticism of an athletic guard and should develope into a good defender down low. The last main thing he needs to work on is not rushing himself/getting exciting. Despite have a great level of basketball IQ, he still has made some rookie mistakes, but at the same time, many great players in the past have made mistakes their rookie seasons... In fact, one of the best players in the league in the league and future HOFer shot 3 air balls against the Utah Jazz during his rookie career. There are some other minor things that don't stand out as much that Griffin needs to work on but that'll come through time once he's more polished. Considering the skill, basketball IQ and hard work/dedication he has for the game, I'm confident he'll improve on most of his weaknesses. He'll be a great player.

People like to believe that Griffin will bolt once his rookie contract is up, but don't forget. He'll be a restricted FA which means the Clippers have all the leverage in the world. The last time the Clippers had a player that was either an All-star level player or close to it(he definitely got snubbed a couple of years) was Elton Brand and Sterling re-signed him. Blake Griffin has more talent in one of his ass hairs than Elton Brand ever dreamed of having and is a cash cow and Sterling loves money so you can bet on Griffin staying in Clipperland.

if players want to leave, they find a way.

trust me, i know. :oldlol: doesnt matter if hes "restricted" or not or sterling wants to pay or not. no team can ever force a player to stay no matter what.

[NugzFan]

I'm not sure some people realize how ****ing great Barkley was.

how many people on this board are over 14 years old?

[NugzFan]

We'll see in a few years won't we? He's at least going to stay his entire peak. CBA should make it harder for people to Lebron teams. Not to mention he's restricted. What's a better situation for him to play in talent wise that can afford to max him like we can?

first you have no idea what other situations there will be in a year let alone 3. you also have no idea what the new CBA rules will be or whether sterling will pay whatever blake wants. you also have no idea if blake wants to stay no matter what. he might, he might not. you are making all the assumptions in the world to justify what you want to happen. and im not surprised.

so ill go with the odds which state that almost NO players stay with the same team their entire career (you name one that did, ill name ten that didnt). add to it its the clippers, and its pretty much a sure thing.

[RRR3]

how many people on this board are over 14 years old?

You don't have to be old to know Barkley was great. Just read up on NBA history, stats, watch film of him, and listen to what people from that era say about him. That's not necessarily a good way to know where he ranks on a GOAT list, but it's a good way to know he was a great player.

[NugzFan]

You guys are so short sighted that it makes me sad. When it comes to sports if you're into them enough and have watched enough you can identify that "It" factor. That greatness factor. You see the character and work ethic in a player that tells you... no matter what comes his way he's going to rise above. He already rose above a knee injury that cost him a season in a resounding way.

Over the next couple seasons when you guys see what I see... and start to see Griffin develop into the monster I'm saying he will.... you'll stop viewing me as a homer and start viewing me as a visionary. An optimist. A faithful fan.

:oldlol: get lost - you are the biggest homer ever and you are saying others are "short sighted" and that blake has the "it" factor to become "greatness"? the day you want to have an unbiased conversation about blake or the clips, let the board know. its not happening.

[mr beast]

http://fastcache.gawkerassets.com/assets/images/11/2011/07/medium_shawn-kemp-tee.jpg

[NugzFan]

You don't have to be old to know Barkley was great. Just read up on NBA history, stats, watch film of him, and listen to what people from that era say about him. That's not necessarily a good way to know where he ranks on a GOAT list, but it's a good way to know he was a great player.

dude i was agreeing with you. he was great and 90% of this board wouldnt know it since they think the nba started when lebron was drafted.

[RRR3]

dude i was agreeing with you. he was great and 90% of this board wouldnt know it since they think the nba started when lebron was drafted.

I thought the NBA ended when LBJ was drafted? :lol jk

[L8kersfan222]

I thought the NBA ended when LBJ was drafted? :lol jk



LOL THAT SHIT WASN'T FUNNY AT ALL.

[NugzFan]

I thought the NBA ended when LBJ was drafted? :lol jk

touche.

[Smoke117]

Any comparisons to Shawn Kemp are pointless because Kemp actually made his presence felt on the inside for his teams defensively.

[Dave3]

Let me ask you a question.

If he continues to average 22, 12 and 4 over the next let's say 9 seasons. Improving those numbers maybe by a little in that time.
Right there you answered your own question. Being a lock and the word "if" don't go together. You know there are few bigger fans of Griffin than myself as you've read a lot of my posts on him, but there's no such thing as a lock. Too much unpredictable things can happen.

However, if you say "he will be a lock if he continues in this ____ and improves this ____ and does this _____" then it fits way more. But to say he's a lock period, then you're just coming off as a major homer.

[Sampsonsimpson]

He's gonna be the next guy bangin your girlfriend

[Clippersfan86]

Right there you answered your own question. Being a lock and the word "if" don't go together. You know there are few bigger fans of Griffin than myself as you've read a lot of my posts on him, but there's no such thing as a lock. Too much unpredictable things can happen.

However, if you say "he will be a lock if he continues in this ____ and improves this ____ and does this _____" then it fits way more. But to say he's a lock period, then you're just coming off as a major homer.

Read what I said. I mentioned him being a lock under those stipulations. I specified that multiple times and admitted there are IF's about it.

[Clippersfan86]

Any comparisons to Shawn Kemp are pointless because Kemp actually made his presence felt on the inside for his teams defensively.

Kemp also had drug problems, poor work ethic and Griffin as a rookie was better than or equal to a PRIME Kemp. You mad? Griffin is on the same tier defensively as Dirk, Aldridge and Zach Randolph. All of them defensive ratings between 105 and 107 yet... the rookie gets criticized the most? People will find any reason to hate on great players.

It's sad we can't just appreciate these once in a decade or lifetime players. Instead non fans rip up their flaws. I do it too sometimes but try to remind myself they will be gone soon.

[JordanTime]

Kemp also had drug problems, poor work ethic and Griffin as a rookie was better than or equal to a PRIME Kemp. You mad?


you can't be serious.

Not only was Shawn Kemp a force to be reckon with on the offensive end...... He was also an excellent defender. And one of the league's best defensive players in the 90's during his prime.

I'd take Prime Shawn Kemp over Blake Griffin without thinking twice. And i'm pretty sure everyone on this forum with basketball knowledge would do the same.

[Clippersfan86]

you can't be serious.

Not only was Shawn Kemp a force to be reckon with on the offensive end...... He was also an excellent defender. And one of the league's best defensive players in the 90's during his prime.

I'd take Prime Shawn Kemp over Blake Griffin without thinking twice. And i'm pretty sure everyone on this forum with basketball knowledge would do the same.

Impact wise I agree. Skills and statistics show they are on the same tier. Kemp a better defender, Blake a better rebounder and passer. You're a fool if you think there was a huge gap. The fact that we can even argue Blake vs Kemp already proves my point.

[Clippersfan86]

Kemp is notoriously overrated here. I'm sorry but he put up 20.5 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 2.5 apg and 1 ppg in his best year which isn't all time status or even top 10 PF. You also didn't mention how the loser was out of the league and unwanted by 33 yeard old.

[JordanTime]

Impact wise I agree. Skills and statistics show they are on the same tier. Kemp a better defender, Blake a better rebounder and passer. You're a fool if you think there was a huge gap. The fact that we can even argue Blake vs Kemp already proves my point.

stats don't really mean a thing....if your team is under 500% like the Clippers.

I like and enjoy watching Blake Griffin play. I think one day he can become one of the greatest bigmen to ever play the game. But as of right now....he just another player that put up 20/10 on a losing team.

And no we are not debating who is better between Kemp and Griffin. You were the one who brought him up.

There is no debate until Blake Griffin makes the playoffs.

We can debate who is better between Blake Griffin, Shareef Abdur-Rahim, and Kevin Love though.

[bdreason]

People will hammer me, but his game reminds me of Charles Barkley. Great offensive power forward who uses freakish athletic ability to punish defenders in both the halfcourt and open court. Average defender.

[JordanTime]

Kemp is notoriously overrated here. I'm sorry but he put up 20.5 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 2.5 apg and 1 ppg in his best year which isn't all time status or even top 10 PF. You also didn't mention how the loser was out of the league and unwanted by 33 yeard old.

like i said before STATS ARE NOT EVERYTHING (DAMNIT WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE YOUNG KIDS!!)

And no....that 98-99 season was no his best season. Stop looking up for the stats, and watch some damn games.

Shawn Kemp best season (peak) was either 94(Sonics finished with the best record....lost in first round) or 96 (Lost in the finals that year).

His prime was from 93-94 all the way to 96-97. Yes i know it didn't last long.

[Dave3]

Read what I said. I mentioned him being a lock under those stipulations. I specified that multiple times and admitted there are IF's about it.
Yeah, but before you said "lock" period which made you look kind of bad.

[eliteballer]

Reminds me of Webber without the passing ability.

[NuggetsFan]

Kemp is notoriously overrated here. I'm sorry but he put up 20.5 ppg, 9.2 rpg, 2.5 apg and 1 ppg in his best year which isn't all time status or even top 10 PF. You also didn't mention how the loser was out of the league and unwanted by 33 yeard old.

Kemp was doing this beside GP atleast making the playoffs.

When will people realize statistics are apart of your situation. Having the offense run through you while winning 32 games is MUCH different then being on a complete team winning games. There's a reason why Kobe averaged 35 while making the playoffs and 26-27 when winning rings.

Throw Blake on a team winning games and those numbers don't turn out the same. Kevin Love on a playoff team isn't scoring 16+ points.

It's ridiculous.

[Clippersfan86]

Kemp was doing this beside GP atleast making the playoffs.

When will people realize statistics are apart of your situation. Having the offense run through you while winning 32 games is MUCH different then being on a complete team winning games. There's a reason why Kobe averaged 35 while making the playoffs and 26-27 when winning rings.

Throw Blake on a team winning games and those numbers don't turn out the same. Kevin Love on a playoff team isn't scoring 16+ points.

It's ridiculous.

I watched Kemp plenty. I actually started getting into basketball around 95 and the team I watched most was the Sonics. Payton was my favorite player in the NBA and I loved Detlef. You can't compare veterans in their prime declining with improved teammates to a rookie with insane upside. Blake is going to improve regardless of his teammates. This good player on bad teams crap needs to end.

[Clippersfan86]

like i said before STATS ARE NOT EVERYTHING (DAMNIT WHAT IS WRONG WITH THESE YOUNG KIDS!!)

And no....that 98-99 season was no his best season. Stop looking up for the stats, and watch some damn games.

Shawn Kemp best season (peak) was either 94(Sonics finished with the best record....lost in first round) or 96 (Lost in the finals that year).

His prime was from 93-94 all the way to 96-97. Yes i know it didn't last long.

Exactly... because his fat as* was out of the league at 33. Kemp isn't going to be worthy of holding Blake's nuts this season when Blake drops 25 ppg, 13 rpg and 4.5 apg and leads the Clippers into the playoffs. You are picking the wrong bone here by trying to slam Griffin by throwing Kemp into this. In order for Blake to surpass Kemp on the all time list he wouldn't need more than 2-3 great seasons and playoff runs by the Clippers.

He has the most pathetic longevity of any "star" player I've ever seen. I watched the Sonics a lot growing up. Starting in about 95 I started watching them a ton.... then became a diehard Clippers fan in 98 ish. The Glove was probably my favorite player growing up. Kemp was never a legit first option. Take Payton off that team and the Sonics don't do sh**. He was the best defender in the game and the best scorer and all around player on the Sonics. I still think Payton was a better defender than Jordan with his 9 NBA first team defense selections. He's still the only PG ever to win DPOY.

It's funny because this forum is quick to kiss the as*es of guys like Penny, T Mac and Kemp who had elite potential and fell short... but scoff at me seeing the greatness of my rookie. It doesn't take a genius to see Blake is going to be a HOF player and elite player for a long time.

[Clippersfan86]

Reminds me of Webber without the passing ability.

Chris Webber career apg... 4.2. Blake Griffin career apg 3.8 :confusedshrug: .

[senelcoolidge]

Kemp was a major underachiever. He was a good player, but was not what he could have been. Now the people that say Kemp was better than Griffin..either never saw Kemp play..just his dunks on youtube or didn't watch Griffin play this past season. Griffin is already better than Kemp..it's over. Kemp was better defensively..that's all. Sure the Sonics made the playoffs..they had very good teams..Payton, McKey, Cage, Mcmillian, Shrempf..etc and Karl as their coach. Kemp's best season doesn't even surpass Griffin's rookie year.

[Clippersfan86]

Kemp was a major underachiever. He was a good player, but was not what he could have been. Now the people that say Kemp was better than Griffin..either never saw Kemp play..just his dunks on youtube or didn't watch Griffin play this past season. Griffin is already better than Kemp..it's over. Kemp was better defensively..that's all. Sure the Sonics made the playoffs..they had very good teams..Payton, McKey, Cage, Mcmillian, Shrempf..etc and Karl as their coach. Kemp's best season doesn't even surpass Griffin's rookie year.

Yea some people aren't ready for his greatness.

[RRR3]

Yea some people aren't ready for his greatness.
No, some people are just tired of the media acting like he's already a top 10 player in the NBA or something.

[Clippersfan86]

No, some people are just tired of the media acting like he's already a top 10 player in the NBA or something.

He's not far. In fact he was in the top 10 MVP ranking for a stretch last year. I don't even have to defend him. His game does the talking. If you think he'd overrated, over hyped or only dunks... Watch him 10 plus times this coming season and you'll find out for yourself.

[RRR3]

He's not far. In fact he was in the top 10 MVP ranking for a stretch last year. I don't even have to defend him. His game does the talking. If you think he'd overrated, over hyped or only dunks... Watch him 10 plus times this coming season and you'll find out for yourself.

1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Chris Paul
6. Kevin Durant
7. Amar'e Stoudemire
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Deron Williams
10. Derrick Rose
11. Carmelo Anthony
12. Pau Gasol

That's 12 better for sure.

[Clippersfan86]

1. LeBron James
2. Dwight Howard
3. Dwyane Wade
4. Dirk Nowitzki
5. Chris Paul
6. Kevin Durant
7. Amar'e Stoudemire
8. Kobe Bryant
9. Deron Williams
10. Derrick Rose
11. Carmelo Anthony
12. Pau Gasol

That's 12 better for sure.

Melo, Gasol? You'd take them over Blake for your team? I said he's close anyways not lock for top 10. Statistically he's top 10. If you're holding team success against him then like I said wait till this season. Blake and the Clippers are going to put the NBA on alert quickly.

[Clippersfan86]

Did you watch the Heat vs Clippers at Staples this year? You should know first hand how good Blake is. As well as how good a healthy Clipper squad is. Blow out the Lakers by 20 then get owned by Clippers.

[RRR3]

Melo, Gasol? You'd take them over Blake for your team? I said he's close anyways not lock for top 10. Statistically he's top 10. If you're holding team success against him then like I said wait till this season. Blake and the Clippers are going to put the NBA on alert quickly.
No I wouldn't take them over him if I was a GM because they're older. But they're better right now. I could also throw in Bosh, Z-Bo, Lamarcus Aldridge, and Russell Westbrook.

[RRR3]

Did you watch the Heat vs Clippers at Staples this year? You should know first hand how good Blake is. As well as how good a healthy Clipper squad is. Blow out the Lakers by 20 then get owned by Clippers.
Because one regular season game means everything. :rolleyes:

[Ikill]

I don't think you can really rank Griffin yet he's too unproven but yeah statistically he is top 10 i would even say top 5.

[Clippersfan86]

Because one regular season game means everything. :rolleyes:

Not at all. Just saying you would of gotten a good look at the team if you skipped all other Clippers games. People are sleeping on the team and our players. It will be funny to see the team turn the corner and how ISH will respond. I understand doubting the team but don't doubt once a generation talents like Blake. The way Rose and Durant turned their teams around, so will he. I thought with his story of recovery and exceeding all expectations people wouldn't underrate him.

I expected 15 and 9 and got 22.5, 12 and 4. People are already turning on him just because of the praise and press he gets. He deserves it.

[Ikill]

To put it bluntly, yes. Yes I do.
why?

[Clippersfan86]

I don't think you can really rank Griffin yet he's too unproven but yeah statistically he is top 10 i would even say top 5.

Agree. I didn't even put him in top 10 just saying he's closer than people admit. You know you're reaching when you say guys like Pau Gasol are better. Guy was incredible first half of season then he folded.

[Clippersfan86]

No I wouldn't take them over him if I was a GM because they're older. But they're better right now. I could also throw in Bosh, Z-Bo, Lamarcus Aldridge, and Russell Westbrook.

We've been through this. Coaches selected Blake over Zbo and Aldridge. Statistically he beats both. One a 9th year vet, the other a 5th. Both got snubbed because Griffin beasted. Bosh isn't even in the discussion right now. Westbrook is at the same tier of borderline elite player Blake is so he's absolutely in the discussion.

[RRR3]

I don't think you can really rank Griffin yet he's too unproven but yeah statistically he is top 10 i would even say top 5.
http://www.gifsoup.com/view2/1156151/shocked-spit-out-drink-o.gif

[Math2]

Clipper his entire career. I think the closest comparison is a bigger, more athletic Barkley for sure. So he's the new Barkley I guess but due to his athleticism I think he's a completely unique player. Better than skill set than both Kemp and Amare. Scariest thing like Barkley said is that he doesn't even know how to play yet really. He's getting by mostly on instincts and athleticism.

Blake's a natural born leader and winner though. I expect him to win at least 1-2 rings and not leave the game ring less like Malone or Barkley. Especially if Eric Gordon turns into the superstar he looks like he's going to. The team has a lot of potential to dominate over the next 10+ years.

I think a peak stat line of about...

28-30 ppg
13-14 rpg
5 apg
1 bpg
1.5 spg

on efficient numbers isn't out of the question at all for him. That combination of stats puts him at near identical peak Barkley numbers. He's got more defensive potential than Barkley though IMO.

Stats at peak:

25-26 PPG
12-13 RPG
4 AST
1 BLK
1 STL

[InspiredLebowski]

clearly, the next Terminator

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8351/terminatorgriffin.jpg

[Clippersfan86]

clearly, the next Terminator

http://img84.imageshack.us/img84/8351/terminatorgriffin.jpg
:oldlol:

[Ikill]

Stats at peak:

25-26 PPG
12-13 RPG
4 AST
1 BLK
1 STL
So he is only going to improve his points by 3 and nothing else. I don't get it people say he has so many flaws in his game and then turn around say he's not going to improve much :wtf:

[Math2]

So he is only going to improve his points by 3 and nothing else.

Yes.

[Figlo]

Mix of Karl MAlone and Shawn Kemp

[DevilsAssassin]

Blake Griffin will be out of this league in 3 years.

Nothing special about his game. All dunks, no skills.

[HylianNightmare]

kemp

[CAstill]

:roll:
and at the same time :facepalm

I've watched a lot of Clipper games since I live down here in the IE but
I've watched every Kemp game and there is NO WAY griffin is even close to Prime Kemp. While i don't think you're dumb in saying Griffin has the chance to be a HOF and one of the best he isn't now nor is he close. Oh and by the way
:facepalm @ you thinking GP was better than Kemp. GP would tell you himself Kemp was the Town Bizness, it didn't take a genius to know Kemp was the best in the league in 96, ask Jordan or Walton they would tell you :pimp:

[Clippersfan86]

:roll:
and at the same time :facepalm

I've watched a lot of Clipper games since I live down here in the IE but
I've watched every Kemp game and there is NO WAY griffin is even close to Prime Kemp. While i don't think you're dumb in saying Griffin has the chance to be a HOF and one of the best he isn't now nor is he close. Oh and by the way
:facepalm @ you thinking GP was better than Kemp. GP would tell you himself Kemp was the Town Bizness, it didn't take a genius to know Kemp was the best in the league in 96, ask Jordan or Walton they would tell you :pimp:

:roll: :roll:

Kemp was better Payton's first couple seasons because he had an extra year in the league but that's about it. Peak vs Peak and Sonics peak as a team Payton is CLEARLY the better player, not even close. Kemp may have had slightly better stats up until 95 ish... but Payton was the best man defender in the league and had better impact on games. Which is why people will debate Payton vs the top 5 PG's in NBA history but how often do you hear Kemp vs Duncan etc? Payton>Kemp period.

[Clippersfan86]

Yes.

:oldlol: . Man some people be hating on Blake Griffin. Only improve his ppg 3 and nothing else. I guess his potential isn't that good.

[Dave3]

Blake Griffin will be out of this league in 3 years.

Nothing special about his game. All dunks, no skills.
Clippersfan, do NOT reply to this. Either some massive ignorance or some hard bait, but don't fall into it.

[Clippersfan86]

Clippersfan, do NOT reply to this. Either some massive ignorance or some hard bait, but don't fall into it.

I'm not that easy :cheers: .

[DevilsAssassin]

Clippersfan, do NOT reply to this. Either some massive ignorance or some hard bait, but don't fall into it.
It was a fvcking joke.

:oldlol:

[Da Heroic One]

It was a fvcking joke.

:oldlol:
Terrible joke, 8BeastlyXOIAD.

[Clippersfan86]

Terrible joke, 8BeastlyXOIAD.

:oldlol:

[Ikill]

:oldlol: . Man some people be hating on Blake Griffin. Only improve his ppg 3 and nothing else. I guess his potential isn't that good.
these haters are not even giving reasons there just hating

[Clippersfan86]

these haters are not even giving reasons there just hating

Because they know in the back of their minds that the realistic 26+ ppg, 13+ rpg and 5+ apg is just too damn good and dominant. For them to admit those stats are realistic they would have to admit Griffin has a chance to be the GOAT PF assuming he wins with the Clippers as well.

[DaPerceive]

I have very high doubts that Blake could ever be the greatest power forward ever. Top 5? Possibly, but the greatest ever is stretching it. Blake has a long way to go. Lets start with the improvement of defense first.

[Clippersfan86]

I have very high doubts that Blake could ever be the greatest power forward ever. Top 5? Possibly, but the greatest ever is stretching it. Blake has a long way to go. Lets start with the improvement of defense first.

I don't think he will be the best PF ever. Passing up Duncan, Malone and Barkley would take an INCREDIBLE career. All I ever said was he could easily be top 5 if he keeps improving and the Clippers become a contending team. Then people started throwing in laughable comparisons like Blake Griffin never being as good as peak Kemp in the future etc. Can he be the GOAT PF ever? Sure. Is it likely? Of course not.

I just don't want to doubt a player as good as he is with that much upside and room to grow. How many players have you ever seen this raw put up these numbers? Guys who have like Hakeem, Elgin Baylor, KG, Chris Webber, Barkley, Malone etc.. all these guys had a much more refined game as young players. When you're this raw and this good.. it's a scary combination.

Charles Barkley: "This kid's reach is unlimited."

This was regarding Blake's potential.

[CAstill]

:facepalm
No, take it from the guy who watched all the games. How do you give payton the edge in 96? Because he won DPOY? He couldn't carry the team. He didn't even want the final shot and this is coming from a ball hog lol. I love GP, It's Town Love anytime he brought up but he wasn't seeing Kemp.
Kemp was a better team player. Played better help D. Ten times better Man D.
He was the quickest on the Sonics Half Traps. He was the reason they didn't need a great Center even though they were going through Hakeem and D-Rob and a league with great Bigs in general. He was a better offensive player on less possesions. He had a better post game. His Mid Range game was better. He was a better passer and completed more difficult passes. Like WHAT THE HELL DID YOU WATCH? Seriously? GP was the man for his position and he would lock down people but he din't scare nobody. With Kemp you didn't even want to shoot lol.

It's a shame people only tune into Kemps Dunks but his fadeaway game from 96-98 was a thing of beauty. His baseline turn around jumper, His fake dream shake lead off jumper was ill. The man learned how to shoot that 95 summer and never looked back. Forget his dunks his post game is what made me a fan. He wanted to be the best in the world 96 and he was. Jordan would tell you that, he just got beat by a better team.

[Clippersfan86]

:facepalm
No, take it from the guy who watched all the games. How do you give payton the edge in 96? Because he won DPOY? He couldn't carry the team. He didn't even want the final shot and this is coming from a ball hog lol. I love GP, It's Town Love anytime he brought up but he wasn't seeing Kemp.
Kemp was a better team player. Played better help D. Ten times better Man D.
He was the quickest on the Sonics Half Traps. He was the reason they didn't need a great Center even though they were going through Hakeem and D-Rob and a league with great Bigs in general. He was a better offensive player on less possesions. He had a better post game. His Mid Range game was better. He was a better passer and completed more difficult passes. Like WHAT THE HELL DID YOU WATCH? Seriously? GP was the man for his position and he would lock down people but he din't scare nobody. With Kemp you didn't even want to shoot lol.

It's a shame people only tune into Kemps Dunks but his fadeaway game from 96-98 was a thing of beauty. His baseline turn around jumper, His fake dream shake lead off jumper was ill. The man learned how to shoot that 95 summer and never looked back. Forget his dunks his post game is what made me a fan. He wanted to be the best in the world 96 and he was. Jordan would tell you that, he just got beat by a better team.

Nobody claimed Kemp sucked or didn't have sick game. I have a problem with you claiming Kemp was a better player than The Glove. As well as making it seem like Kemp is some GOAT level PF.

[JTatStarranch]

Nobody claimed Kemp sucked or didn't have sick game. I have a problem with you claiming Kemp was a better player than The Glove. As well as making it seem like Kemp is some GOAT level PF.

Kemp had a better prime than the glove. 19, 11, 2stls, 2 blcks, 55%. However, Payton had the longer career.

[CAstill]

And what I'm saying is you claim the Glove was better from 95 on when in 96
Kemp was the best player in the League Bar none. That is GOAT level PF ish right there. What do you want from Kemp? From a player really?
Look at the year...He carried a team through the playoff all the way to the finals just to fall short to the GOAT on his most emotional mission for a championship yet. C'mon he went through the reigning Champs in Hakeem and was relied to hit on the game winner and hit game winning free throws. That's GOAT ish right there. He beat the mailman and the Jazz sent them home packing when they we're trying to reach the finals for the first time. He Outplayed Jordan in the Finals and had many saying he was going to win Finals MVP over JORDAN! On a loosing team no less OVER JORDAN! C'mon GP never had a season like that. Period! That was a Kemp Led team that made the finals and posted an all time great Reg. Season record that has to count for something.

[SuperPippen]

:oldlol: . Man some people be hating on Blake Griffin. Only improve his ppg 3 and nothing else. I guess his potential isn't that good.

An increase in PPG and efficiency is obviously going to happen as Blake gets more skilled and increases the range of his offensive skillset, but I still don't see him getting to 30 PPG in his career unless he does some serious chucking, and Blake's not a chucker. Again,I see him peaking at around 27 PPG on around 52% shooting, which is still great.

I also don't see any drastic improvements in rebounding from Blake through his career. He played a ton of minutes this year, he isn't getting any more athletic than he was this year (although his athleticism isn't going to start declining for a long while), and his short arms are, IMO, going to prevent him from ever putting up numbers at or above 14 PPG. There have been plenty of great big men whose rebounding numbers peaked or already neared their peak during their rookie years. His peak will be, I think, 13 RPG.

And the 5 APG is just unreasonable for a power forward like him, who never really ventures out onto the perimeter. And "improving his ablity to read defenses" isn't going to bring Blake's assist numbers to five per game.

Again, that's just IMO.

[JordanTime]

Nobody claimed Kemp sucked or didn't have sick game. I have a problem with you claiming Kemp was a better player than The Glove. As well as making it seem like Kemp is some GOAT level PF.

Clippersfan86, you were the one who was saying Blake Griffin was already better than PRIME Shawn Kemp ....................... which is false.

Stop overrating Blake Griffin and get with the program.

Blake Griffin is talented and will soon be one of best in the league. But as of right now he isn't top 20, nor is he the best on his own team.

[Clippersfan86]

Clippersfan86, you were the one who was saying Blake Griffin was already better than PRIME Shawn Kemp ....................... which is false.

Stop overrating Blake Griffin and get with the program.

Blake Griffin is talented and will soon be one of best in the league. But as of right now he isn't top 20, nor is he the best on his own team.

Go read again, that was someone else. I said skill wise they are on the same tier but that Kemp had more of an impact. Griffin has the better stats. Nothing I've said regarding this comparison isn't a fact. Kemp was a better defender, Griffin is a way better rebounder and passer.

[Clippersfan86]

An increase in PPG and efficiency is obviously going to happen as Blake gets more skilled and increases the range of his offensive skillset, but I still don't see him getting to 30 PPG in his career unless he does some serious chucking, and Blake's not a chucker. Again,I see him peaking at around 27 PPG on around 52% shooting, which is still great.

I also don't see any drastic improvements in rebounding from Blake through his career. He played a ton of minutes this year, he isn't getting any more athletic than he was this year (although his athleticism isn't going to start declining for a long while), and his short arms are, IMO, going to prevent him from ever putting up numbers at or above 14 PPG. There have been plenty of great big men whose rebounding numbers peaked or already neared their peak during their rookie years. His peak will be, I think, 13 RPG.

And the 5 APG is just unreasonable for a power forward like him, who never really ventures out onto the perimeter. And "improving his ablity to read defenses" isn't going to bring Blake's assist numbers to five per game.

Again, that's just IMO.

Watch him play more before you make comments Pippen. Do you know how many assists per game Blake averaged the second half of the season??? 5.1. He's very capable of averaging 5 apg just like Webber and KG did in recent years before him. You don't think him becoming a smarter, more mature player will improve his passing even more?

I think 13 rpg is reasonable and my peak numbers have him around there. Somewhere in the 13-14 rpg range tops. I'm not predicting a massive leap but you guys saying he will improve his scoring 3 ppg, and improve nothing else is crazy.

[Clippersfan86]

Clippersfan86, you were the one who was saying Blake Griffin was already better than PRIME Shawn Kemp ....................... which is false.

Stop overrating Blake Griffin and get with the program.

Blake Griffin is talented and will soon be one of best in the league. But as of right now he isn't top 20, nor is he the best on his own team.

Not top 20?? :lol :lol . Check yourself fool. First time since David Robinson someone won unanimous rookie of the year. First rookie since Kareem to average his combination of numbers. Only player in the NBA to average 22+, 12+ and 3+. Cracked into the MVP race in January. Led the Clippers on a massive turn around that had analysts picking the Clippers as a surprise 8th seed in January.

Can't blame the team being hit by massive injuries to Gordon, Kaman and etc... on Blake Griffin. The dude is a beast and if he isn't quite top 10... he's easily top 13. To say he isn't top 20 is laughable. All I gotta say is I REALLY can't wait till the season starts so I can remind you guys that it's the Clippers turn.

[Dave3]

Not top 20?? :lol :lol . Check yourself fool. First time since David Robinson someone won unanimous rookie of the year. First rookie since Kareem to average his combination of numbers. Only player in the NBA to average 22+, 12+ and 3+. Cracked into the MVP race in January. Led the Clippers on a massive turn around that had analysts picking the Clippers as a surprise 8th seed in January.

Can't blame the team being hit by massive injuries to Gordon, Kaman and etc... on Blake Griffin. The dude is a beast and if he isn't quite top 10... he's easily top 13. To say he isn't top 20 is laughable. All I gotta say is I REALLY can't wait till the season starts so I can remind you guys that it's the Clippers turn.
I have him about top 11-15 in the league as of last season.

[MiseryCityTexas]

shawn kemp

[SuperPippen]

Watch him play more before you make comments Pippen. Do you know how many assists per game Blake averaged the second half of the season??? 5.1. He's very capable of averaging 5 apg just like Webber and KG did in recent years before him. You don't think him becoming a smarter, more mature player will improve his passing even more?

I think 13 rpg is reasonable and my peak numbers have him around there. Somewhere in the 13-14 rpg range tops. I'm not predicting a massive leap but you guys saying he will improve his scoring 3 ppg, and improve nothing else is crazy.

Well, those guys you mentioned (KG especially) were significantly more perimeter oriented than Blake currently is, and a lot of their offensive game relied on mid-range jumpers face-ups around the high post. Because of that, they were more often in a position to get more assists. Unless Blake expands his offensive game to the point where he can play like they could, I don't think he will reach 5 APG (for a whole season).

[Ikill]

An increase in PPG and efficiency is obviously going to happen as Blake gets more skilled and increases the range of his offensive skillset, but I still don't see him getting to 30 PPG in his career unless he does some serious chucking, and Blake's not a chucker. Again,I see him peaking at around 27 PPG on around 52% shooting, which is still great.

I also don't see any drastic improvements in rebounding from Blake through his career. He played a ton of minutes this year, he isn't getting any more athletic than he was this year (although his athleticism isn't going to start declining for a long while), and his short arms are, IMO, going to prevent him from ever putting up numbers at or above 14 PPG. There have been plenty of great big men whose rebounding numbers peaked or already neared their peak during their rookie years. His peak will be, I think, 13 RPG.

And the 5 APG is just unreasonable for a power forward like him, who never really ventures out onto the perimeter. And "improving his ablity to read defenses" isn't going to bring Blake's assist numbers to five per game.

Again, that's just IMO.
I don't think Blake would need any more than 20 shots to get 30 at most 22 shots thats not serious chucking. If he gets around 25-27 in his prime it will probably be on crazy efficiency. I agree about the rebounding most players peak early in their career but short arms are not going to prevent him from grabbing over 14. Dwight Howard and Kevin Love grabbed over 14 because they played with no good rebounders Blake played with two guys in Kaman and Deandre Jordan that can grab over 10. If Blake was able to get 4 assists playing his style i don't see why he can't get 5. His numbers will really depend on the team he plays with if he has a shitty supporting cast like the one Dwight had this year i don't think 30 and 14 is out of the queston.

[Clippersfan86]

I have him about top 11-15 in the league as of last season.
I have him at 11. Still people saying not top 15 or not top 20 are trolling.

[JordanTime]

Not top 20?? :lol :lol . Check yourself fool. First time since David Robinson someone won unanimous rookie of the year. First rookie since Kareem to average his combination of numbers. Only player in the NBA to average 22+, 12+ and 3+. Cracked into the MVP race in January. Led the Clippers on a massive turn around that had analysts picking the Clippers as a surprise 8th seed in January.

Can't blame the team being hit by massive injuries to Gordon, Kaman and etc... on Blake Griffin. The dude is a beast and if he isn't quite top 10... he's easily top 13. To say he isn't top 20 is laughable. All I gotta say is I REALLY can't wait till the season starts so I can remind you guys that it's the Clippers turn.

Ok, i was trolling you. You Caught me.......... but these are players i have listed that i think are better than Blake Griffin.

Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Amare stoudemire
Dwight Howard
Dirk nowitzki
Kobe Bryant
Pau Gasol
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Kevin Durant
Lamarcus Aldridge

while guys like Monta Ellis, Zach Randolph, Kevin Love, Danny Granger, Josh Smith, Joe Johnson are debateable.

[RRR3]

And what I'm saying is you claim the Glove was better from 95 on when in 96
Kemp was the best player in the League Bar none. That is GOAT level PF ish right there. What do you want from Kemp? From a player really?
Look at the year...He carried a team through the playoff all the way to the finals just to fall short to the GOAT on his most emotional mission for a championship yet. C'mon he went through the reigning Champs in Hakeem and was relied to hit on the game winner and hit game winning free throws. That's GOAT ish right there. He beat the mailman and the Jazz sent them home packing when they we're trying to reach the finals for the first time. He Outplayed Jordan in the Finals and had many saying he was going to win Finals MVP over JORDAN! On a loosing team no less OVER JORDAN! C'mon GP never had a season like that. Period! That was a Kemp Led team that made the finals and posted an all time great Reg. Season record that has to count for something.
:roll: :roll: :roll: Michael Jordan wasn't playing, eh?

[CAstill]

:roll: :roll: :roll: Michael Jordan wasn't playing, eh?
Yeah Mike was playing. He was getting sh!ted On in the finals. Too bad he had the better team or this wouldn't be overlooked.

[Burgz]

this guy

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y1A5J01-keI

[2LeTTeRS]

Any comparisons to Shawn Kemp are pointless because Kemp actually made his presence felt on the inside for his teams defensively.

Wait why are people calling Kemp a premier defender? He was solid because of his athleticism, but I remember a guy who routinely jumped on everything and stayed in foul trouble because of it. He played in the 90s when most stars played 40 mins or more a game, and he never got over 34 in his prime because of this.

Yes he made an impact defensively because of his athleticism, but can anybody name a star who bit on more pump fakes?

[alenleomessi]

Ok, i was trolling you. You Caught me.......... but these are players i have listed that i think are better than Blake Griffin.

Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Amare stoudemire
Dwight Howard
Dirk nowitzki
Kobe Bryant
Pau Gasol
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Kevin Durant
Lamarcus Aldridge

while guys like Monta Ellis, Zach Randolph, Kevin Love, Danny Granger, Josh Smith, Joe Johnson are debateable.
:no:

[Clippersfan86]

Ok, i was trolling you. You Caught me.......... but these are players i have listed that i think are better than Blake Griffin.

Lebron James
Dwyane Wade
Amare stoudemire
Dwight Howard
Dirk nowitzki
Kobe Bryant
Pau Gasol
Derrick Rose
Russell Westbrook
Chris Paul
Deron Williams
Carmelo Anthony
Chris Bosh
Kevin Durant
Lamarcus Aldridge

while guys like Monta Ellis, Zach Randolph, Kevin Love, Danny Granger, Josh Smith, Joe Johnson are debateable.


How are Chris Bosh, LaMarcus Aldridge, Pau Gasol better than Griffin? I think Westbrook is arguable but not a clear selection over Griffin. The rest of your list afterwards is a tier below Griffin. I'm a fan of Kevin Love but he didn't play next to other all star caliber players like Blake, nor was he double teamed all year. If you swap them... Blake has insane stats (superior to Love) and Love's numbers all drop a good amount playing with Eric Gordon, Chris Kaman, DeAndre Jordan, Baron Davis and Mo Williams.

[RRR3]

:no:
:facepalm at you implying Blake is better than STAT and Dwill.

[Clippersfan86]

:facepalm at you implying Blake is better than STAT and Dwill.

Yea that's a bit too much. Deron>Blake and Amare is better than Blake right now by a little bit. I think by this season IF he improves like I think he will... he can break into the top 7 and surpass those two.