Chris Webber 51 points, 26 rebounds, 5 assists, 3 steals, 2 blocks vs Pacers

[eliteballer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iv_mNAqSCM4

[D.J.]

Webber- 51
Kings players not named Webber- 40


Final score- 93-91 Indy(OT)


:facepalm

[Round Mound]

One of the Most Underrated PFs Ever

Probably a Top 10 PF

[Mr Clutch Melo]

Is this the game he shot 47 times ? :confusedshrug:

[D.J.]

Is this the game he shot 47 times ? :confusedshrug:


Yes.

[AMISTILLILL]

Sure wish this guy could have kept it together long enough to win a ring. I would have loved to see him get a ring starting alongside Shaq in 2006. It would have been a cool way to conclude the Kings/Lakers battle of the '00s in a way.

[Ben-J]

C-Webb !

For sure one of the best PF of all time
Definitely deserves a spot in the HOF for what he've done in Washington and Sacramento.

[D.J.]

C-Webb !

For sure one of the best PF of all time
Definitely deserves a spot in the HOF for what he've done in Washington and Sacramento.


1 of only 7 players to average 20/6/4 over a career(Jordan, Bird, Oscar, Wilt, Baylor, West).

[Clippersfan86]

47 shots to get 51 points? Did I hear that properly? Not to toot my horn but Blake Griffin had 47 on 24 shots as a rookie. What kind of douche takes nearly 50 shots to score 50? This is why I never liked C Webb and consider him overrated as hell. He was a jumpshooting big. Sure he had a good all around skill set... but the guy was scared/allergic of the post game. Chris Bosh has a more physical post game than Webber and Webber had the body of a post player.

[Clippersfan86]

1 of only 7 players to average 20/6/4 over a career(Jordan, Bird, Oscar, Wilt, Baylor, West).

Sweet. So Blake is close to that with 22.5, 12 and 3.8 apg so far. DJ I know you like stats so would you mind helping me find this? How many players have ever averaged 27 ppg, 13 rpg, 5 apg on 52+ percent shooting from the field for a full season?

[swi7ch]

most underrated pf

should be a top10 :bowdown:

[DaPerceive]

I am really glad Webber was never the star or franchise player on my team. Talented player for sure but not someone I would want on my team for many reasons.

[Clippersfan86]

I am really glad Webber was never the star or franchise player on my team. Talented player for sure but not someone I would want on my team for many reasons.

Agree. I always hated the way he played and how much of a choke dude was. He talked a big game for the Kings but never came through when they needed it the most. Not to mention I'm a traditionalist when it comes to basketball. A big man should be playing in the post. Sure guys like Dirk are amazing exceptions but Webber's lack of inside play did cost the team I truly believe. The Mavericks had their defensive anchor and great depth at C/PF to where it didn't hurt them.

Older Vlade/Webber isn't enough to get the job done when they both want to shoot a bunch of jumpers and high post shots. A proper big likes to bang on the low block, play defense and draw defenders. Webber did none of this.

[D.J.]

DJ I know you like stats so would you mind helping me find this? How many players have ever averaged 27 ppg, 13 rpg, 5 apg on 52+ percent shooting from the field for a full season?


Wilt Chamberlain
-36.9 PPG/22.3 RPG/5.0 APG on 52.4% shooting(1963-64)
-33.5 PPG/24.6 RPG/5.2 APG on 54.0% shooting(1965-66)


Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
-30.2 PPG/16.1 RPG/5.0 APG on 55.4% shooting(1972-73)
-27.7 PPG/16.9 RPG/5.0 APG on 52.9% shooting(1975-76)

[Clippersfan86]

I think Webber and Sheed have the same issue. More skilled than 99 percent of players.... but mentally immature/weak. Webber was a very high skill player but a low IQ player and a choke.

[TennesseeFan]

47 shots? :wtf:

[Clippersfan86]

Wilt Chamberlain
-36.9 PPG/22.3 RPG/5.0 APG on 52.4% shooting(1963-64)
-33.5 PPG/24.6 RPG/5.2 APG on 54.0% shooting(1965-66)


Kareem Abdul-Jabbar
-30.2 PPG/16.1 RPG/5.0 APG on 55.4% shooting(1972-73)
-27.7 PPG/16.9 RPG/5.0 APG on 52.9% shooting(1975-76)

Only two? I'm asking because in the Blake thread most of us agreed on a potential 27 ppg, 13 rpg, 5 apg Blake at his ultimate peak. That's incredible that Wilt and Cap did that :facepalm . It's mind blowing in modern basketball terms. Wonder if we will ever have a player put up anything close to those numbers again.

Thanks for taking time to find for me :cheers:

[DaPerceive]

I think Webber and Sheed have the same issue. More skilled than 99 percent of players.... but mentally immature/weak. Webber was a very high skill player but a low IQ player and a choke.
Calling Webber a low IQ player is absolutely incorrect; C-Webb was a choker though. Sheed wasn't a choker, but he did have a temper and a mental issue.

[Clippersfan86]

Calling Webber a low IQ player is absolutely incorrect; C-Webb was a choker though. Sheed wasn't a choker, but he did have a temper and a mental issue.

Webber's passing and court vision gives the impression of a smart player but his poor shot selection, inefficiency, and low impact on games despite his skill level and natural talent make him a lower IQ player. I watched him plenty to see him consistently force bad shots and make dumb plays. Maybe LOW is a bit excessive on my part, but he's average at best intelligence wise.

Do you know even at his peak the best he ever had in win shares was 11? How sad is that for a player putting up 27, 11, 4.2 apg, 1 spg and 2 bpg??? I've actually never seen such a good player on paper be less impacting on his team. Webber was his days Kevin Love in terms of impact. Amazing all around stats, little to show for it when you look at his impact. Never a legit franchise player/1st option really, despite appearing to be one. He never carried Sacramento.

[Clippersfan86]

Forgot to mention...

ESPN Classic rated Chris Webber the 6th most overrated sports figure of all time. This poll actually included coaches as well. If it was players only I believe he would of been 4th or so.

Scottie Pippen also said Webber puts up great stats but has very little impact on wins and losses (which is what I'm saying here). Funny thing though is he said KG is the same in this sense but he said this back in 05 or 06 before KG became a Celtic.

[D.J.]

47 shots? :wtf:


At least he made half of them, unlike Kobe in Boston.

[Clippersfan86]

At least he made half of them, unlike Kobe in Boston.

Kobe is a wing player though man. Different standards. A big man shooting 50 shots is a MUCH different story than a player who was a shot jacking SG. Everybody knows Kobe was an egotistical shot jacker throughout his career. If my big man is shooting 50 shots, more than half outside the paint.. I'm immediately taking his starting job.

[rodman91]

I'd love to see Blake becoming as good as prime Webber one day.

[D.J.]

Kobe is a wing player though man. Different standards. A big man shooting 50 shots is a MUCH different story than a player who was a shot jacking SG. Everybody knows Kobe was an egotistical shot jacker throughout his career. If my big man is shooting 50 shots, more than half outside the paint.. I'm immediately taking his starting job.


Not really. Webber wasn't exactly one to stay in the paint. He was a jump shooting big man. MJ was every bit the shooter Kobe was and you would never see Jordan go 17/47. No where near 40% and they only lost by 3 in overtime. 17/47and 0/8 from downtown. I have never seen a perimter shooter jack up so many shots and be so inefficient.

[eliteballer]

What does Kobe have to do with this jacka$$. Keep your agenda out.

[D.J.]

What does Kobe have to do with this jacka$$. Keep your agenda out.


Kiss my mulatto ass. Butthurt because your n!gga attempted 47 shots, hitting just 17 of them. Attempting 8 threes, hitting NONE of them. And losing in overtime. FAIL. :roll: :facepalm

[eliteballer]

5 titles. WINNING:pimp:

[King24]

Everybody knows Kobe was an egotistical shot jacker throughout his career.
And yet he has more rings than the Clippers will ever have. :oldlol:

[D.J.]

5 titles. WINNING:pimp:


Robert Horry > Kobe Bryant

[King24]

:oldlol: @ this moron bringing up a game from 9 years ago.:roll:

[D.J.]

:oldlol: @ this moron bringing up a game from 9 years ago.:roll:


:roll: @ your name. Unfortunately for you, you know what 24 is? And I'm not referring to Kobe's jersey number.

[Clippersfan86]

And yet he has more rings than the Clippers will ever have. :oldlol:

I'm not dissing Kobe it's just a fact. A volume shooting SG who was known early in his career as an egotistical shot jacker. Many players, including legendary ones called him out for it. I was actually defending Kobe and saying a big shooting those numbers is MUCH worse considering bigmen are supposed to be more efficient scorers and NOT shooting that many jumpers. I doubt Dirk has ever had a game like that and he's a jump shooting big.

BTW You know for a fact that in the next 100 years or however long the NBA lasts.... that the Clippers can't win 5 rings? Pretty ignorant statement.

[Cali Syndicate]

Older Vlade/Webber isn't enough to get the job done when they both want to shoot a bunch of jumpers and high post shots. A proper big likes to bang on the low block, play defense and draw defenders. Webber did none of this.

Adelman mainly runs a high/low offense and since one of Webber's best assets was his passing abilities, he was always up there. Same goes for Vlade, just not to the extent Webber was used. I agree that true bigs should play deeper in the paint.

However I liked Webber's game. His skill set allowed him to play a different brand of big man ball. He played like an over sized SF...somewhat similar to Larry Johnson. I was PISSED when the Warriors traded him after he won ROY. Warriors then followed his loss by drafting Clifford Rozier, Joe Smith, Todd Fuller and Adonal Foyle with their next 4 first round draft picks....straight utter failure. Through thick and thin right?

I also wish the 2002 WCF didn't have those shady implications behind them. In which case C-Webb should and would have ended up winning a chip....

[Ben-J]

I think Webber and Sheed have the same issue. More skilled than 99 percent of players.... but mentally immature/weak. Webber was a very high skill player but a low IQ player and a choke.

ARE you really comparing Sheed to Webber :facepalm

That's like comparing Jeff Teague to Chancey Billups.
And regarding his BAsketball IQ, Watching C-Webb in his prime was like watching a 6ft9 big man trapped in a point guard's body

[ShaqAttack3234]

Webber's passing and court vision gives the impression of a smart player but his poor shot selection, inefficiency, and low impact on games despite his skill level and natural talent make him a lower IQ player. I watched him plenty to see him consistently force bad shots and make dumb plays. Maybe LOW is a bit excessive on my part, but he's average at best intelligence wise.

Do you know even at his peak the best he ever had in win shares was 11? How sad is that for a player putting up 27, 11, 4.2 apg, 1 spg and 2 bpg??? I've actually never seen such a good player on paper be less impacting on his team. Webber was his days Kevin Love in terms of impact. Amazing all around stats, little to show for it when you look at his impact. Never a legit franchise player/1st option really, despite appearing to be one. He never carried Sacramento.

:roll: :oldlol: :roll:

First of all, win shares are a VERY questionable stat.

Even worse is calling his impact equal to Kevin Love's. Webber was leading title contenders, Love's team won a pathetic 17 games, comparing him to a superstar like Webber is ridiculous.

Yes, Webber settled for too many jumpers, especially since that linedrive jumper of his wasn't that consistent, and it's also true that he was an erratic free throw shooter and not the most reliable player in big games.

But those are the negatives. The positives are that he's easily one of the best passing big men ever, one of the best ball handling big men I've seen, very quick and athletic and a solid rebounder.

He could be a go to scorer because he did have the skills in the post and when he faced up and went to the basket, there was nothing you could do. Granted, he didn't do that enough relative to how many jumpers he shot, but he did enough so that he could put up points on a consistent basis, and not empty scoring numbers either. You could go to him, unlike Love. And when Webber's jumper was falling, there was nothing you could do. Nevermind how huge his passing was to Sacramento's offense.

Webber in 3 years from 2001-2003, Webber led teams to 55, 61 and 59 wins and a conference finals as well as 2 conference semifinals. Peja was also injured in the '02 WCF and Webber himself got injured in the '03 WCSF. If not for those things, he may have led his team to 2 rings. That should tell you how far beyond Kevin Love he is. Love is a better shooter and rebounder, but Webber was a superior passer, defender, post scorer and overall scorer.

Love wasn't even a top 20 player last season, Webber was top 10 four consecutive years and borderline top 5 a couple of seasons.

Phil Jackson called Webber a top 3 player in 2000.


Chris Webber is an exceptional power forward, who on the basis of his season-long consistency, I'd rank as being one of the top three players in the league.

[Clippersfan86]

:roll: :oldlol: :roll:

First of all, win shares are a VERY questionable stat.

Even worse is calling his impact equal to Kevin Love's. Webber was leading title contenders, Love's team won a pathetic 17 games, comparing him to a superstar like Webber is ridiculous.

Yes, Webber settled for too many jumpers, especially since that linedrive jumper of his wasn't that consistent, and it's also true that he was an erratic free throw shooter and not the most reliable player in big games.

But those are the negatives. The positives are that he's easily one of the best passing big men ever, one of the best ball handling big men I've seen, very quick and athletic and a solid rebounder.

He could be a go to scorer because he did have the skills in the post and when he faced up and went to the basket, there was nothing you could do. Granted, he didn't do that enough relative to how many jumpers he shot, but he did enough so that he could put up points on a consistent basis, and not empty scoring numbers either. You could go to him, unlike Love. And when Webber's jumper was falling, there was nothing you could do. Nevermind how huge his passing was to Sacramento's offense.

Webber in 3 years from 2001-2003, Webber led teams to 55, 61 and 59 wins and a conference finals as well as 2 conference semifinals. Peja was also injured in the '02 WCF and Webber himself got injured in the '03 WCSF. If not for those things, he may have led his team to 2 rings. That should tell you how far beyond Kevin Love he is. Love is a better shooter and rebounder, but Webber was a superior passer, defender, post scorer and overall scorer.

Love wasn't even a top 20 player last season, Webber was top 10 four consecutive years and borderline top 5 a couple of seasons.

Phil Jackson called Webber a top 3 player in 2000.

I'm sorry but Win Shares is a very good stat when judging a players overall value. It's not a simple formula dude. Look up all the top players, highest impact players in NBA history and you'll see the patterns. I wasn't trying to say Love is equal to Webber. Just that both on paper look incredibly good, but have far less impact than they should.

PLEASE don't be foolish enough to diss on Love's success when the Kings roster ranks up there among the most stacked in NBA history. The Wolves have very few consistent contributors. For the 00-04 or so Kings they were absolutely loaded and any of their top 5 players could be the best players of any game. It could be Peja. It could be Webber. It could be Bibby. It could be Vlade. It could even be Doug Christie or Bobby Jackson.

Reality is CONSIDERING his excellent talent and skill set Webber had far less impact than he should have and was never the leader, closer Sacramento needed. He will always be remembered as a choke. Modern day Dirk pre championship wasn't even considered as much of a choke. Multiple players including Pippen like I wrote in my other post have called Webber an empty stat guy with little impact essentially.

[Clippersfan86]

Adelman mainly runs a high/low offense and since one of Webber's best assets was his passing abilities, he was always up there. Same goes for Vlade, just not to the extent Webber was used. I agree that true bigs should play deeper in the paint.

However I liked Webber's game. His skill set allowed him to play a different brand of big man ball. He played like an over sized SF...somewhat similar to Larry Johnson. I was PISSED when the Warriors traded him after he won ROY. Warriors then followed his loss by drafting Clifford Rozier, Joe Smith, Todd Fuller and Adonal Foyle with their next 4 first round draft picks....straight utter failure. Through thick and thin right?

I also wish the 2002 WCF didn't have those shady implications behind them. In which case C-Webb should and would have ended up winning a chip....

I liked his game too. I already admitted guy was incredibly skilled. I just think people acting like he's underrated need to really look at the all around circumstances. To be THAT good on paper and considered that good yet to never lead an extremely stacked team to a ring? That Kings team from about 00-04 was more stacked than the famous 99-00 Blazers squad.

Check these numbers out from the 01-02 Kings squad. 3rd ranked overall offense, 6th ranked overall defense. 7 players over 10 ppg. Two 20 ppg+ scorers in Webber and Peja. 7 players with a PER of over 15. 3 players that had more than 8.5 win shares. I mean when you really look at the numbers and if you've watched the early 00' Kings you'd understand Webber is actually an incredible underachiever. Blame the refs or w/e you want guys. Reality is Webber was supposed to be the man and couldn't get it done. The Kings talked a big game in interviews and got slapped the fu** up by the Lakers multiple times.

They had the best record in the league like 2 times if I recall also.

[ShaqAttack3234]

I'm sorry but Win Shares is a very good stat when judging a players overall value. It's not a simple formula dude. Look up all the top players, highest impact players in NBA history and you'll see the patterns. I wasn't trying to say Love is equal to Webber. Just that both on paper look incredibly good, but have far less impact than they should.

Actually win shares is nothing more than a subjective formula.


PLEASE don't be foolish enough to diss on Love's success when the Kings roster ranks up there among the most stacked in NBA history. The Wolves have very few consistent contributors. For the 99-03 or so Kings they were absolutely loaded and any of their top 5 players could be the best players of any game. It could be Peja. It could be Webber. It could be Bibby. It could be Vlade. It could even be Doug Christie or Bobby Jackson.

I'm well aware of how stacked Webber's team was, but I'm also well aware of how good Webber himself was.


Reality is CONSIDERING his excellent talent and skill set Webber had far less impact than he should have and was never the leader, closer Sacramento needed. He will always be remembered as a choke. Modern day Dirk pre championship wasn't even considered as much of a choke. Multiple players including Pippen like I wrote in my other post have called Webber an empty stat guy with little impact essentially.

I never said he was as good as he could've or should've been, but he was still a damn good player.

Let me ask you this, looking at 2000-2003, how many players were better each year?

2000- Shaq, Duncan, Mourning, Garnett and Malone.
2001- Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Iverson, Garnett and Carter.
2002- Shaq, Duncan, Kobe and Garnett.
2003- Duncan, Garnett, McGrady, Kobe, Shaq, Kidd, Dirk and Iverso

A pretty short list....

And that's nice about Pippen saying that, but as you pointed out, he said the same thing about KG. And if you're going by others words then it should speak volumes that a guy like Phil Jackson thought highly enough of him to call him a top 3 player.

[Clippersfan86]

Actually win shares is nothing more than a subjective formula.



I'm well aware of how stacked Webber's team was, but I'm also well aware of how good Webber himself was.



I never said he was as good as he could've or should've been, but he was still a damn good player.

Let me ask you this, looking at 2000-2003, how many players were better each year?

2000- Shaq, Duncan, Mourning, Garnett and Malone.
2001- Shaq, Duncan, Kobe, Iverson, Garnett and Carter.
2002- Shaq, Duncan, Kobe and Garnett.
2003- Duncan, Garnett, McGrady, Kobe, Shaq, Kidd, Dirk and Iverso

A pretty short list....

And that's nice about Pippen saying that, but as you pointed out, he said the same thing about KG. And if you're going by others words then it should speak volumes that a guy like Phil Jackson thought highly enough of him to call him a top 3 player.

We aren't debating how good Webber is. I'm criticizing the fact that people are implying he's underrated. I'm explaining WHY I feel he's overrated if anything. I agree with your lists. Basically he was a fringe top 5 player for a stretch of about 4 seasons, at least statistically. I just think when we factor in impact, inability to be a full blown franchise player/first option and his consistent choking and poor playoff showings in his career hurt his all time rank and even his rank in each of those seasons.

I personally felt Elton Brand had more impact at his peak as a big man and was a better all around player. Unlike Webber he was an excellent defender. 15 win shares vs 11 in each of their best seasons with the advantage going to Brand. Brand also beats him easily when you combine their offensive and defensive ratings in their peak years. Brand's PER was 26.5 in his best season vs Webber's best of 24.7. These aren't small differences. Elton Brand was a better all around bigman.

He played for the Clippers though and was less flashy so people didn't give him his dues while a bunch of people kissed Webber's ass.

[ShaqAttack3234]

We aren't debating how good Webber is. I'm criticizing the fact that people are implying he's underrated. I'm explaining WHY I feel he's overrated if anything. I agree with your lists. Basically he was a fringe top 5 player for a stretch of about 4 seasons, at least statistically. I just think when we factor in impact, inability to be a full blown franchise player/first option and his consistent choking and poor playoff showings in his career hurt his all time rank and even his rank in each of those seasons.

My rankings weren't based on stats, and those negatives were already factored in. In 2000, I can't think oif many negatives, he gave the Lakers a scare in the first round despite being the 8th seed. That may have been the best I've seen Webber play for a season. In 2001, he would've been at least ranked over Carter based on the regular season, but his poor playoff performance drops him. In 2002, he'd have won a title if he had kept making his free throws in the playoffs and stepped up a bit more, in that case, he'd have been ranked top 3-4 instead of 5th.

And you could argue 1 or 2 more players over him during those seasons such as maybe Hill and Payton in 2000, arguably T-Mac in '01 and '02, arguably Kidd in '02 and maybe Pierce or Jermaine O'Neal in 2003.

As far as career rankings? I agree, those have to be factored in, possibly even more than in season to season rankings. But I don't think many would claim Webber was as good as Duncan, Barkley, Malone, Garnett, Dirk, Pettit or McHale.


I personally felt Elton Brand had more impact at his peak as a big man and was a better all around player. Unlike Webber he was an excellent defender. 15 win shares vs 11 in each of their best seasons with the advantage going to Brand. Brand also beats him easily when you combine their offensive and defensive ratings in their peak years. Brand's PER was 26.5 in his best season vs Webber's best of 24.7. These aren't small differences. Elton Brand was a better all around bigman.

He played for the Clippers though and was less flashy so people didn't give him his dues while a bunch of people kissed Webber's ass.

I think that your statement is valid, not because of the advanced stats, but because Brand had a very good peak season which I'd agree was on par with Webber's peak. But imo, you'd have to argue Brand's 1 year peak and that's it, because comparing their best 3-4 seasons makes it more clearly in Webber's favor.

I don't know if I'd call Brand better at his peak, but he had a phenomenal season in 2006, and I was a fan. I was rooting for him to beat Phoenix and thought that he would at one point in the series. And I was kind of disappointed that he didn't play nearly as well in '07(many people saying he was tired from playing for team USA) and when he had the injury that ended his prime.

So I guess we're not as far off as I initially thought.

[DevilsAssassin]

Webber's passing and court vision gives the impression of a smart player but his poor shot selection, inefficiency, and low impact on games despite his skill level and natural talent make him a lower IQ player. I watched him plenty to see him consistently force bad shots and make dumb plays. Maybe LOW is a bit excessive on my part, but he's average at best intelligence wise.

Do you know even at his peak the best he ever had in win shares was 11? How sad is that for a player putting up 27, 11, 4.2 apg, 1 spg and 2 bpg??? I've actually never seen such a good player on paper be less impacting on his team. Webber was his days Kevin Love in terms of impact. Amazing all around stats, little to show for it when you look at his impact. Never a legit franchise player/1st option really, despite appearing to be one. He never carried Sacramento.


:facepalm

[Clippersfan86]

Fair enough Shaq. I respect your posting man.

[NugzHeat3]

That comparison with Kevin Love is pushing it but its definitely true in the sense that Webber wasn't as good as his stats suggest.

Its a big reason why Sacramento rarely struggled with Webber out and you had people hyping Peja as an MVP candidate.

Webber's game was pleasing to the eye and he's one of the most skilled bigs I've seen but he had several flaws as a player.

[D.J.]

That comparison with Kevin Love is pushing it but its definitely true in the sense that Webber wasn't as good as his stats suggest.

Its a big reason why Sacramento rarely struggled with Webber out and you had people hyping Peja as an MVP candidate.

Webber's game was pleasing to the eye and he's one of the most skilled bigs I've seen but he had several flaws as a player.



2000-01 w/Webber: 48-22
2000-01 w/o Webber: 7-5

2001-02 w/Webber: 42-12
2001-02 w/o Webber: 19-9

2002-03 w/Webber: 49-18
2002-03 w/o Webber: 10-5

2003-04 w/Webber: 11-12
2003-04 w/o Webber: 44-15

[Clippersfan86]

That comparison with Kevin Love is pushing it but its definitely true in the sense that Webber wasn't as good as his stats suggest.

Its a big reason why Sacramento rarely struggled with Webber out and you had people hyping Peja as an MVP candidate.

Webber's game was pleasing to the eye and he's one of the :oldlol: most skilled bigs I've seen but he had several flaws as a player.

Wow we finally agree on something. Did I give you money when I was drunk or something? Lol

[Clippersfan86]

2000-01 w/Webber: 48-22
2000-01 w/o Webber: 7-5

2001-02 w/Webber: 42-12
2001-02 w/o Webber: 19-9

2002-03 w/Webber: 49-18
2002-03 w/o Webber: 10-5

2003-04 w/Webber: 11-12
2003-04 w/o Webber: 44-15

Post plus and minus stats of team with and without him. I'm mobile so can't look them up. I think posting the record isn't as accurate though.

[D.J.]

Post plus and minus stats of team with and without him. I'm mobile so can't look them up. I think posting the record isn't as accurate though.


You're on mobile. Look it up, kid.

[Clippersfan86]

You're on mobile. Look it up, kid.

Give me a webpage then :confusedshrug: . One I used to use for lineup differentials no longer exists and I can't find one. Just need a webpage that tells me + and - of different lineups.

[ukplayer4]

one of my favorite players to watch, his passing was amazing. also i think its fair to say he had the best hands ever, ive never seen a player catch some of the passes he did, was especially evident when he went to philly and used to just grab all of a.i's erratic bullets in his general direction and convert them, that im sure contributed to iverson having less to's and more assists.

[magic chiongson]

one of my favorite players in the past 2 decades. if not for his injuries, he'd be an all-time top 5 power forward

[lakers1978]

I think Webber was a great players, but a little overrated in my book. He had a real nice overall game and all, but when it became crunch time, he wasn't the type of player that would put the team on his back and lead them to a win. During the lakers/kings rivalry days I was always more fearful of Bibby, than of Webber. Bibby seem to always make the clutch shots when the Kings needed it.

[Clippersfan86]

I think Webber was a great players, but a little overrated in my book. He had a real nice overall game and all, but when it became crunch time, he wasn't the type of player that would put the team on his back and lead them to a win. During the lakers/kings rivalry days I was always more fearful of Bibby, than of Webber. Bibby seem to always make the clutch shots when the Kings needed it.

Bibby, Peja and Bobby Jackson were the go to guys in the clutch for sure. Webber consistently failed in the clutch.

[jlip]

I think that the very night Webber played this game, Karl Malone scored 50pts in another game also.

[The_Yearning]

Bibby, Peja and Bobby Jackson were the go to guys in the clutch for sure. Webber consistently failed in the clutch.

Webber has never been clutch in his career... it dates back to his days at Michigan...

It's the clutch gene. You either have it, or you don't.

[Clippersfan86]

Webber has never been clutch in his career... it dates back to his days at Michigan...

It's the clutch gene. You either have it, or you don't.

Yup.

[iamgine]

In the vid he managed to be clutch...only to miss all his shots in overtime.

[imdaman99]

Bibby, Peja and Bobby Jackson were the go to guys in the clutch for sure. Webber consistently failed in the clutch.
if you thought peja was the go-to guy in the clutch, you clearly did not watch kings games :lol

the problem with the kings was that bibby was the only clutch one. peja was known to gag and he turned into a bleeding v@gina everytime he saw rick fox on the other team guarding him. remind me of pejas wide open airball in game 7. oh wait you won't remember, because all you remember is webber calling timeout when he didn't have any.

what's your agenda? remind me how many seasons webber played that his teams DIDNT make the playoffs? let me tell you, he got his team there as a rookie. remind me whether or not the chosen one blake griffin did? you wanna talk about everyone kissing someone's ass? tell me how a cheap average dunk wins the dunk contest? take off your clippers tinted glasses.

[G-train]

I think Webber and Sheed have the same issue. More skilled than 99 percent of players.... but mentally immature/weak. Webber was a very high skill player but a low IQ player and a choke.

Webber was pretty solid mentally at Sac.

[G-train]

Bibby, Peja and Bobby Jackson were the go to guys in the clutch for sure. Webber consistently failed in the clutch.

I remember a clutch hook in gm6 of 02 WCF, and a clutch J in that same series.

Plus he guarded Shaq one on one often during the 4th.

[Clippersfan86]

if you thought peja was the go-to guy in the clutch, you clearly did not watch kings games :lol

the problem with the kings was that bibby was the only clutch one. peja was known to gag and he turned into a bleeding v@gina everytime he saw rick fox on the other team guarding him. remind me of pejas wide open airball in game 7. oh wait you won't remember, because all you remember is webber calling timeout when he didn't have any.

what's your agenda? remind me how many seasons webber played that his teams DIDNT make the playoffs? let me tell you, he got his team there as a rookie. remind me whether or not the chosen one blake griffin did? you wanna talk about everyone kissing someone's ass? tell me how a cheap average dunk wins the dunk contest? take off your clippers tinted glasses.

Haha right. You're a douche just like 90 percent of ISH for pulling Blake Griffin and the Clippers into this merely because I disagree with the idea that Webber is underrated. You can't disagree without bringing up Blake? Sounds like you're a bit obsessed bro.

Peja wasn't an extremely clutch player by any means... I was just implying that I'd go to Peja before Webber in clutch moments and that he did happen to hit important shots when the team needed it. Bringing up one series or even the number of clutch shots he made etc is completely irrelevant. I was giving an example that Webber wasn't even the 2nd or 3rd best option in the clutch which is true.

I'm not bringing up Webber's failures in the clutch in general either really. What I've elaborated on most was actually that many have called him out as being a high stat/low impact guy. I watched him personally enough times to know his impact didn't compare to the amazing all around stats he put up.

[ukplayer4]

Haha right. You're a douche just like 90 percent of ISH for pulling Blake Griffin and the Clippers into this merely because I disagree with the idea that Webber is underrated. You can't disagree without bringing up Blake? Sounds like you're a bit obsessed bro.

Peja wasn't an extremely clutch player by any means... I was just implying that I'd go to Peja before Webber in clutch moments and that he did happen to hit important shots when the team needed it. Bringing up one series or even the number of clutch shots he made etc is completely irrelevant. I was giving an example that Webber wasn't even the 2nd or 3rd best option in the clutch which is true.

I'm not bringing up Webber's failures in the clutch in general either really. What I've elaborated on most was actually that many have called him out as being a high stat/low impact guy. I watched him personally enough times to know his impact didn't compare to the amazing all around stats he put up.



your wrong, i can remember alot of games for the kings when they went to webber with a few seconds left and he made big shots, as someone else mentioned- peja was a useless ******. webber was the man on that team. bibby made the clutch shots in the 02 lakers series but if you actually watched the kings back then youll know they went to chris in the clutch ALOT. its good to see some of the people that actually watched the kings recall this as well. it happens so much on ish- a player does something bad or fumbles a play on the biggest of stages from that point on every idiot uses this and only this to argue that he is mentally weak or unable to produce in the clutch.

its pure uninformed opinion and i see it happening all the time here. people that have no idea also swear the same thing about vince(happens all the time) missing the fact that hes consistently one of the best clutch performers in recent memory, yet because hes been a bit soft people just assume they have him figured and swear he doesnt have "the clutch gene" or whatever stupid shit you wanna call it....

[EricForman]

i knew there'd be kiddies who only look at PPG (and RPG and APG) and not realized he took 47 shots and his team lost.

in terms of performances, this would rank about 7 notches below Manu droppin 28 on 8 shots in the 2005 finals.

[EricForman]

BTW, I'm not saying Webber wasn't great. He was skilled and physically gifted and talented. Just that this game isn't all that.

[eliteballer]

He shot 50%, you dont have to get a ton of freebies for it to be a great game. Hell its more impressive. In order to GET those FT's someone has to take shots anyway....