Why Wilt Chamberlain would dominate in today's game ! Bruce Blitz

[Legends66NBA7]

"There is a common belief that Wilt was so good because he played in an era where there was no competition or size to compete with Wilt. I am going to show that Wilt would dominate in today’s game.

There is an idea out there that the reason Wilt scored so many points and grabbed so many boards is that there was no size to compete with Wilt. This theory is false. The average height that Wilt played against was about 6-10, only 3 inches shorter then he was. There were a large amount of players that were able to go up against Wilt in terms of size. There was Bill Russell (6-9 215 lbs), Zelmo Beaty (6-9 225 lbs), Nate Thurmond (6-11 225 lbs), Walt Bellamy (6-11 225 lbs), Bob Lanier (6-11 250 lbs), and Willis Reed (6-9 235 lbs). These are all hall of famers (with exception of Zelmo Beaty) and players that Wilt had to go up against when he played. As you can see most of these players had the size to go up against Wilt. Wilt was just good enough to be able to dominate most of these guys.

Wilt was a great athlete. He was ahead of his time in athletics. Wilt was a track star, he played shot put, and could bench press 500 lbs. Wilt was a freak athlete. He was able to do this without all of the advances that there is today. For instance, these days most centers are wearing pads to protect themselves from the physical nature of being a big man. Wilt did not have this advantage. When Wilt played, the game was a lot more physical then it is today. The referees let a lot of fouls go that today would be considered a hard or even a flagrant foul. Wilt was able to still dominate every night even with these disadvantages.

The question is if you take Wilt and put him in today’s game, will he dominate. The average height of today’s players is 6-10 (sound familiar). The centers, these days, are not physically as strong as it used to be. Most centers, now, are more perimeter players, so they would not be able to handle Wilt on the inside. The game is no longer as physical as it used to be, so Wilt could dominate the game even more. The only player, in the game today, that has the physical ability to guard Wilt is Dwight Howard and even he would have a lot of trouble. No one in the NBA today has the ability to consistently guard Wilt. The closest resemblance to Wilt would be Shaquille O’Neal except Wilt is stronger, faster, and more versatile. If you think about how much Shaq dominated the game in his era, imagine Wilt except a lot better.

Many people try to undermine the accomplishments of Wilt by saying that he played in a weak era. However, if you look at the facts, you will see that his era was not weak, Wilt was just that good. He deserved every accomplishment he achieved. Wilt Chamberlain was one of the greatest players ever no matter what era he played in."

Also contributed by Artur Radetskiy


I want some more input on this from jlauber, Psileas, PHILA, ThaRegul8r, etc..

[Kblaze8855]

Most centers now are perimeter players?

[Legends66NBA7]

Most centers now are perimeter players?

Don't know what he meant, really.

I think he means they play more away from the paint, but I can't fathom how they all play like Dirk.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2963000/AlphaWolf-2963314_1611_930.jpg

:roll:

JK

[Clippersfan86]

Wow load of crap. Sure they may have had a few 6'11 bigs... but were they 300 pounds? Did they have his insane wingspan? NO. He DID dominate purely because of his superior size and athleticism. Why do I say that? Because I watch his footage and I don't see a guy that's as skilled as everyone else at his position.

[cuad]

I'm not agreeing or disagreeing with OPs conclusion, but everything else he typed is junk.

[senelcoolidge]

People keep arguing this. It's obvious that Wilt would dominate in today's game. The NBA is in a low when it comes to centers. We have a lot of big and athletic guys, but their not very good basketball players. Wilt was big, strong, super athletic, and very skilled. He didn't just dunk balls. Very versatile. Maybe it just looked easy to him when you watch him play, he was not an angry guy. Actually too nice some people say when it comes to his play on the court. The NBA was always competitive.Wilt past his prime would still dominate today's NBA.

[Kblaze8855]

You really cant say its just size and athletic ability considering what he did vs guys like Nate, Bellamy, and later Kareem. Kareem was 7'3'', strong, and mobile and Wilt was fine vs him desite being past his prime.

He didnt really look much bigger than some of these guys:

http://sharing.wpri.com/sharewwlp//photo/2010/08/08/WALT_BELLAMY_20100808172138_640_480.JPG

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8918/70449886.jpg


He did fine vs everyone he played.

[Clippersfan86]

You really cant say its just size and athletic ability considering what he did vs guys like Nate, Bellamy, and later Kareem. Kareem was 7'3'', strong, and mobile and Wilt was fine vs him desite being past his prime.

He didnt really look much bigger than some of these guys:

http://sharing.wpri.com/sharewwlp//photo/2010/08/08/WALT_BELLAMY_20100808172138_640_480.JPG

http://img692.imageshack.us/img692/8918/70449886.jpg


He did fine vs everyone he played.

Great pics Blaze. I'm not trying to imply not a single player was as big as him... but more that in general NOBODY had his combination of athleticism, size, strength and wingspan. Only one who was close was Russell and obviously they had epic battles. Kareem too but he came into the league when those 2 giants were older and on the way out. I think Kareem was a rookie when Wilt was 33 if I recall correctly.

It's no different than the way Lebron or Shaq dominated over the last decade plus. Nobody else had their combination of strength, size and athleticism to stop them. Doesn't mean Wilt was bad... just means that nowadays with players more advanced training, bulkier basketball frames and larger scale athleticism... he's less likely to dominate AS MUCH as he did.

Maybe he would be equal to a prime Shaq and put up 29, 14 and 4 or w/e. He sure as hell isn't putting up 30+, 25+, 5+, 5+ again in this era though I'll say that much.

[jlip]

I did the following post at the end of either the '09 or '10 season (I can't remember.) on another forum about this very issue. I don't feel like updating the specifics, but the point should be clear.


In 1972-73 Wilt was 36 about to turn 37. No matter who you are, at age 36 you are very much beyond your prime. That season the NBA had at least 9 Hall of Fame big men that played center at some point in their career. Besides Wilt, 4 other were at least 6

[Legends66NBA7]

[QUOTE=jlip]This year, D. Howard played less than 10 games against potential Hall of Fame big men

[Math2]

Total crap if anyone thinks that he wouldn't be the best in today's game. He is stronger than any NBA player in the NBA right now, and is more athletic. He'd have at least 25-13-6 (and those are low estimates...). He play in an INFINITELY better era than today.

[Math2]

Great pics Blaze. I'm not trying to imply not a single player was as big as him... but more that in general NOBODY had his combination of athleticism, size, strength and wingspan. Only one who was close was Russell and obviously they had epic battles. Kareem too but he came into the league when those 2 giants were older and on the way out. I think Kareem was a rookie when Wilt was 33 if I recall correctly.

It's no different than the way Lebron or Shaq dominated over the last decade plus. Nobody else had their combination of strength, size and athleticism to stop them. Doesn't mean Wilt was bad... just means that nowadays with players more advanced training, bulkier basketball frames and larger scale athleticism... he's less likely to dominate AS MUCH as he did.

Maybe he would be equal to a prime Shaq and put up 29, 14 and 4 or w/e. He sure as hell isn't putting up 30+, 25+, 5+, 5+ again in this era though I'll say that much.

Not 25 boards, but 30-15-5-5 isn't that far off. Look at what Howard is doing! Wilt would crush this era, Howard wouldn't be the second best center in the 60s.

[Math2]

Wow load of crap. Sure they may have had a few 6'11 bigs... but were they 300 pounds? Did they have his insane wingspan? NO. He DID dominate purely because of his superior size and athleticism. Why do I say that? Because I watch his footage and I don't see a guy that's as skilled as everyone else at his position.

If the NBA was scoring 120 points a game in this era, and shooting 40-45%, you mean he WOULDN'T average 50-25-10-10? People don't realize he much stronger he is than today's players. Russell was a better athlete than Wilt, but not as strong, but Wilt was still a crushing regular season player. Russell could jump higher than ANY NBA player in history, as Wilt is stronger than any NBA player in history. He would dominate any era.

[ShaqAttack3234]

:oldlol: at people saying "there'd be no centers to guard him". You don't think the vastly superior defensive schemes and help defense would cause a bigger problem?

I made this post comparing footage from a '67 game with Wilt and how he was defended.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209939

Even if he would be the strongest player in the league(maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't), he wasn't backing guys down and overpowering them. Look at how he's able to dribble the ball for 3-4 seconds with no help, and not even going to a power move vs Russell who he had a good 3-4 inches and 50+ pounds on. Wilt really doesn't seem like he was a power player.

And honestly, if you even had to double him in today's game, it looks like it'd lead to a lot of turnovers considering he looks awkward with his back to the basket due to his ball handling and footwork. He also seemed to bring the ball down quite a bit which people criticize Howard for(and rightfully so). Good help defenders and hard double teams look like they could really bother him, if teams found it necessary to double him.

So I certainly don't see him dominating with his scoring, and to be honest, when Wilt scored more, it didn't seem to be the way that his teams were the most effective.

He could definitely have an elite impact as a shot blocker, post defender(later version at least when he committed to that end more) and he was a very good passer.

He seemed fast and athletic for a big man in the open court and I could see him running the floor, getting some dunks and put backs, but I haven't seen anything to suggest he'd be the most athletic player in the league.

And then there would be the questionable mentality(which people always bring up for Lebron)

[Bigsmoke]

he'll be great....

[Fatstogie]

No way. Old school players ar enot as strong. NOt as fast. Not as athletic. Not as conditioned. Any player from before... 1990 would get dominated. Because today people prepare their bodies for their entire lives to play basketball.

They did not back then. This nostalgia is denying facts that todays athletes are FAR more athletic.

Dwight howard would stuff wilt over and over and over and over and over again.

That shit wouldnt even be a fun 1 on 1 to watch.


Your crazy. Stop being nostalgic. In 20 year swhen my generation is weaker, ill accept reality. Fact is wilt is not athletic enough.

Today there are 6' dudes whod rain points on oldschool dudes. They would destroy them.

[Miller for 3]

No way. Old school players ar enot as strong. NOt as fast. Not as athletic. Not as conditioned. Any player from before... 1990 would get dominated. Because today people prepare their bodies for their entire lives to play basketball.

They did not back then. This nostalgia is denying facts that todays athletes are FAR more athletic.

Dwight howard would stuff wilt over and over and over and over and over again.

That shit wouldnt even be a fun 1 on 1 to watch.


Your crazy. Stop being nostalgic. In 20 year swhen my generation is weaker, ill accept reality. Fact is wilt is not athletic enough.

Today there are 6' dudes whod rain points on oldschool dudes. They would destroy them.

:roll: :roll:

I love posts like these

[Fatstogie]

:roll: :roll:

I love posts like these

Its not wilt.

FACT of the matter is weve been shown a highly athletic 6'6 guy can out score a 7' guy on a regular basis.

Its not "oh in todays leage the size has gone down." No its that today smaller guys are better than they were before. So the size doesnt matter. wilt would get BLOWN by today. NOt enough speed. Or vert. Not enough lateral speed. Not even close. Dude would get left hanging while getting dunked on.

Dude played old fogeys with no skill. Today the average player is better than the average player then.

SCore 100 pooints? You cant cause eveyrone on the team can score now. In wilts day? Only he could score. Today everyone can score. So no one is gonna sit and watch 1 guy take shots. Like they did back then.

Its not entertaining either.

[millwad]

:oldlol: at people saying "there'd be no centers to guard him". You don't think the vastly superior defensive schemes and help defense would cause a bigger problem?

I made this post comparing footage from a '67 game with Wilt and how he was defended.

http://www.insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=209939

Even if he would be the strongest player in the league(maybe he would, maybe he wouldn't), he wasn't backing guys down and overpowering them. Look at how he's able to dribble the ball for 3-4 seconds with no help, and not even going to a power move vs Russell who he had a good 3-4 inches and 50+ pounds on. Wilt really doesn't seem like he was a power player.

And honestly, if you even had to double him in today's game, it looks like it'd lead to a lot of turnovers considering he looks awkward with his back to the basket due to his ball handling and footwork. He also seemed to bring the ball down quite a bit which people criticize Howard for(and rightfully so). Good help defenders and hard double teams look like they could really bother him, if teams found it necessary to double him.

So I certainly don't see him dominating with his scoring, and to be honest, when Wilt scored more, it didn't seem to be the way that his teams were the most effective.

He could definitely have an elite impact as a shot blocker, post defender(later version at least when he committed to that end more) and he was a very good passer.

He seemed fast and athletic for a big man in the open court and I could see him running the floor, getting some dunks and put backs, but I haven't seen anything to suggest he'd be the most athletic player in the league.

And then there would be the questionable mentality(which people always bring up for Lebron)

Great post!
I always laugh when the old farts on this site claim that Wilt would abuse any center and that he would crush the centers of this weak era..

I've seen the '67 game you posted and it's pretty interesting to see him just hold the ball with his back to Russell in the post and without anyone coming to help Russell. Not only that, he looks so awkward when he has his back to the basket and he takes so long and he dribbles awkwardly in the post, it doesn't look skilled in any way. And haha, I saw the thread as well, you gotta laugh at Jlauber, whenever someone posts a link to a game where it's obvious that Wilt has flaws he always go "YOU POSTED THE WORST GAME WILT EVER PLAYED". Haha, so Wilt playing actual full games doesn't show his true game but highlight-videos of Wilt where the footage is carefully picked to make Wilt look better than what he was is more than ok..

Wilt always gets credit for being such an amazing scorer and that no other center comes close to him which is pure nonsense. In the playoffs we have 3 guys (Hakeem, Jabbar and Shaq) among the top 5 centers of all-time who all of them averaged more points per game on better FG% while facing superior defensive schemes and way more help defense in the playoffs. And it should also be mentioned that Wilt would never be able to average the minutes he did back then in the modern era so based on PER 36 his playoff scoring doesn't look all that dominant..

Bottom line, I don't think he'd be a dominant scorer today with his skills but it's a fact that he still would be a great defender, passer, shotblocker and rebounder.

[Fatstogie]

It does look awkward. In todays league dudes would have a feild say stealing teh ball from him.

Dwight blocking him. CP3 stealing the ball.

It would be a joke seriously.

Wilt would average... 7 PPG in todays league.

[Jon_Koncak]

you mean in the same league where Joel freakin Anthony started in the finals?Joel Anthony..one of the worst offensive centers i've seen in any level.

[Fatstogie]

you mean in the same league where Joel freakin Anthony started in the finals?Joel Anthony..one of the worst offensive centers i've seen in any level.

Yet one of the better defenders youve seen, at a smaller size too. Your just too focused on offense.

Anthony provides more defense today, than wilt could offense.

In fact id prefer my center not even need to take shots. Although i think pittman will be a nice lil addition.

[Kevin_Gamble]

Wow load of crap. Sure they may have had a few 6'11 bigs... but were they 300 pounds? Did they have his insane wingspan? NO. He DID dominate purely because of his superior size and athleticism. Why do I say that? Because I watch his footage and I don't see a guy that's as skilled as everyone else at his position.

Do you watch the NBA? Do you know of many 7' tall, 300 pound guys in the league right now?

[Dbrog]

These posts on this second page are just :facepalm
They make me lose even more faith in the youth of today

[PHILA]

[quote]The question is if you take Wilt and put him in today

[rodman91]

He even dominated Hyborian Age.
http://www.golfleagueboys.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/06/Bombaata.jpg

[Kblaze8855]

Any player from before... 1990 would get dominated.

How do you think Kareem who played in 1969 was scoring 40 on guys who retired in like 2002?

How has robert Parish(out of 1976) had games with 18/14 vs a guy who retired in 2008(Chris Webber when he was a center in GS) Parish had 26/9 and 19/17 in back to back games vs one player who played until 02 and one who retired like 2 years ago. And he was 41. And he came in at 23. He was at an NBA age in 1974. This is a guy from almost 40 years ago who...in his 40s...was having huge games vs players who were solid today.

How does Moses Malone(drafted in 1974) drop 28/11 on the guy who was the DPOY in 2001 and still a great defender in 06 and 07? And this is old Moses 11-12 years past his prime.

How do you account for these things if its as simple as modern players would destroy old guys?

You could make a case that modern guards would outplay most old guards. Skills have changed. The yare expected to do different things.

Bigmen has been the same for 40 years. They weight train now....but it didnt stop any great old school player when he played modern players on his way out. These guys were often just country strong. Burly ass dudes like Wes Unseld, Wayne Embry, Lanier, reed, and so on. They didnt need much weight training.

And its not like they didnt have muscle anyway


http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/684/724/natethurmond_display_image.jpg?1296580921


Centers have been pretty much the same since the late 50s or at least mid 60s.

They would translate better than guards do.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Centers have been pretty much the same since the late 50s or at least mid 60s.

They would translate better than guards do.

They'd definitely translate better than guards, imo, but I don't agree that they've been the same since before the 70's. Kareem and Walton were among the first with post games I've seen that still look good compared to the more recent great post players.

And it's not just about facing today's big men. 60's big men would also be affected by the progression of perimeter players and strategies. The much longer, more athletic perimeter players are often the ones helping out on the center.

Nevermind the fact that it'd also be much tougher to stay out of foul trouble with perimeter players so much more capable and willing to attack the basket now than in the 60's. How much footage have you seen of perimeter players in the 60's blowing by their man off the dribble and attacking the body of the center or trying to dunk on him? I have yet to see much due to the vastly superior ball handling skills as well as palming being enforced less and superior quickness and athleticism on the perimeter.

[Fatstogie]

How do you think Kareem who played in 1969 was scoring 40 on guys who retired in like 2002?

How has robert Parish(out of 1976) had games with 18/14 vs a guy who retired in 2008(Chris Webber when he was a center in GS) Parish had 26/9 and 19/17 in back to back games vs one player who played until 02 and one who retired like 2 years ago. And he was 41. And he came in at 23. He was at an NBA age in 1974. This is a guy from almost 40 years ago who...in his 40s...was having huge games vs players who were solid today.

How does Moses Malone(drafted in 1974) drop 28/11 on the guy who was the DPOY in 2001 and still a great defender in 06 and 07? And this is old Moses 11-12 years past his prime.A few games sure. They wouldnt be able to do it on a regular basis. Sure they are good at basketball. But they wouldnt be able to do it all the time in todays league.


How do you account for these things if its as simple as modern players would destroy old guys?Naw im saying they are more into their craft. Back then there wasnt so many guys who were playing basketball their entire life. The whole league was "hey your big, you should come play basketball." Where as now they draft a kid who has been training his entire life to be a professional athlete.

Im not saying these guys werent good. they did not devote their entire lives to the game as guys do today. They werent eating the same. Working otu the same. They didnt have the same conditioning.

yea they had skill sure. But night in and night out? They couldnt hold up.


You could make a case that modern guards would outplay most old guards. Skills have changed. The yare expected to do different things.

Bigmen has been the same for 40 years. They weight train now....but it didnt stop any great old school player when he played modern players on his way out. These guys were often just country strong. Burly ass dudes like Wes Unseld, Wayne Embry, Lanier, reed, and so on. They didnt need much weight training.Not quite. I mean basically sure. But your seeing a change. Dwight being just the prime example. These older bigmen. Yes they can score. Shooting is something someone can do or not. If htey can shoot sure they can shoot.

CAN THEY PLAY DEFENSE. no.


And its not like they didnt have muscle anyway


http://cdn.bleacherreport.net/images_root/slides/photos/000/684/724/natethurmond_display_image.jpg?1296580921


Centers have been pretty much the same since the late 50s or at least mid 60s.

They would translate better than guards do.

it aint just lifting weights. Today they have high tech workouts n shit. Nutritionists.

Yea and im saying centers would translate better. But im saying he would not score 100 pts in todays league. Not even close.

For one no one wants to see that. No player will want to be on is team. They didnt care then, cause they were garbage.

Now everyone can score.

But yea ill agree center would be the last position of change. Im more saying that these guys would not be allowed to hog the ball like they did back then.

[Kblaze8855]

How many bigmen right now have strong back to the basket games and loads of moves? That isnt an era thing. Those guys arent common in any era. And look into willis reed. Black and white footage 60s reed. He was operating in the post. Clean quick decisive moves. Up and unders. Hooks. He was nice. And of the guys less known as scorers many had more offensive talent than credited with. Nate thurmond had a wet jumper that ive seen. Ive seen lucas and dave d making outside shots. Bigmen have not really expanded skills wise since inaccurate sweeping hooks stopped being the norm.

You are very right about foul trouble and better help in the post. But for the most part i seen no real differences. Most of todays best centers arent terribly musclebound either. Thedays of zo and drob or willis types are gone. Noah? Horford? Bynum? Even bogut is that kina 60s farmer strong. Not just built.

I dont see the old guys having trouble at all.

[Fatstogie]

How many bigmen right now have strong back to the basket games and loads of moves? That isnt an era thing. Those guys arent common in any era. And look into willis reed. Black and white footage 60s reed. He was operating in the post. Clean quick decisive moves. Up and unders. Hooks. He was nice. And of the guys less known as scorers many had more offensive talent than credited with. Nate thurmond had a wet jumper that ive seen. Ive seen lucas and dave d making outside shots. Bigmen have not really expanded skills wise since inaccurate sweeping hooks stopped being the norm.

You are very right about foul trouble and better help in the post. But for the most part i seen no real differences. Most of todays best centers arent terribly musclebound either. Thedays of zo and drob or willis types are gone. Noah? Horford? Bynum? Even bogut is that kina 60s farmer strong. Not just built.

I dont see the old guys having trouble at all.

Again.

The point is the league has changed. Do you wanna watch wilt post up? Or lebron tomahawk?

The game changed on its own. Look at dwight. They do pretty good, best defense. But they have no real scorers on their own.

Dwight is the star. But then he demands the ball. And they can go to the post with him and he can shoot 60%. But at the loss of rythm of everyone else.

Everyone else passes the ball to get open shots. where as everyone else gets bored watching a guy post up over and over.

Both players and fans. So thats why the magic wont do good. Watch next time yous ee the magic. How people get frustrated knowing they have to pass to dwight in the post.

It disrupts teh flow of the other 4 players. Post isolation is boring to watch.

But the fact is only dwight gets off. Watch games where dwight goes off, they usually lose cause everyone else plays like crap. Because dwight is posting up too much.
They single cover and just let him score. Everyone else will start missing cause they are getting sad watching it. lol

Its efficient means in PPM. and FG%. But it lowers the team psychology.

Back in the day? People would watch wilt post up.

Today? No one would even play with him like that.

[eliteballer]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmLe-ZSAHsk&feature=related

Wilt in his Prime.

[Kblaze8855]

So your points are they arent conditioned, they cant play defense, and post play is boring?

You know there are nba players who live off candy and junk food right? Guys like Keon Clark who drank a bottle of gin before every game? You think Eddy Curry, Bogut, Boris Diaw, Baron Davis, and so on are on really strict diets? And conditioning?

The reasons guys then had such insane numbers is how many posessions they had each game. You think it takes less energy to play 220 posessions than 160? And guys like Wilt, Russell, Hayes, and so on might play 45+ minutes a night. Just dragging up and down the court and extra 30+ times would wear out a lot of players now. Especially the bigger ones. You had guys like Wilt who were top flight quarter mile guys and Russell who was the worlds 7th rated high jumper and guys like Reed who lived on a farm for 20 years in Louisiana used to working all day. And they did it in shoes with no padding, drinking water not G series gatorade, and not having a trainer on the road and hottubs after every game. These guys might ride a bus 6 hours then get out take a nap and play a game in an arena with the heat not working as the 4th game of a back to back to back to back.

Being tough/conditioned is the last issue they would have in a league where players wake up in 5 star hotels, to buffets 3 times a day, with a full medical staff, compression shorts, under armor padding, drinks designed to keep them going and oxygen tanks on the bench(dont think thats just NFL).


As for D? that would translate better than anything else. In the 60s with no three point line a center was there first and foremost to disrupt offenses that setup 15 feet away. Hes gotta guard his own man one on one and still prevent drives and try to catch up on dribble handoffs and offenses run through passing bigmen on either side of the lane. And stars guarded eachother.

Let Nate Thurmond hand off the other teams star to someone else so he can just roam the paint freely or play one of the 20 centers not a threat to score or get to rest as much as centers do on teams that just shoot from outside and dont look to drive.

Defensive centers of the 60s would have it easier than ever with the exception of the slashing swingmen being such freaks. But when you are guarding one of the 19-22 centers that dont require much attention its easier to be ready than if Kareem is leaning back on you or Reed is ready to pop a jumper if you take your hand off him.


As for post play being boring....

Thats just a whole other thing. Asking if id rather watch a guy post up or Lebron dunk?

You know a great post scorer can do so at will right?

Some guard flying in for a dunk isnt something we can count on.

There is a reason that every bigtime bigman to come along goes #1 in the draft. And it isnt boredom.

[bdreason]

Wilt would be just fine today. He wouldn't be posting the same numbers, but his rebounding numbers would towards the top in the NBA, and I could see him averaging anywhere from 10-20ppg depending on the team he played for.

[D-Wade316]

Most centers now are perimeter players?
Most centers today lack post-up skills.

Wilt would be a 37ppg-18rpg-4apg-4bpg-60fg% player today

[jlauber]

There were several good posts on the topic, but KBlaze and Jlip basically covered what I would have.

Here we go again...

IMHO, Kareem's greatest season, including post-season play, came in his second year (70-71.) You can argue that he had a greater regular season the very next year, but his numbers dropped dramatically in that post-season. You can also argue that he was in his physical prime in, say '77, or so, but his numbers were not as great (although it may have been his greatest post-season...BUT, there were no Wilt's or Thurmond's to battle.)

In that 70-71 season, Kareem led the NBA in scoring, at 31.7 ppg (his second highest ever.) He also shot .577, which came in a league that shot .449. What is the significance of that? It was his greatest shooting season, in relation to league average, of his career. In addition, he averaged 16 rpg (his third best season of his career. In the post-season, he averaged 26.6 ppg, 17.0 rpg, and shot .515. Here again, those were not his best post-season numbers, but given the fact that he had them against Thurmond, Unseld...and Wilt...well, it was pretty damned good. And he not only won the regular season MVP, he also won the Finals MVP.

Now, it could also be argued that that '70-71 season was the WORST of Chamberlain's career. He was 34 years old, and only a year removed from major knee surgery. His numbers were among the worst of his career, too. He only averaged 20.7 ppg, and on .545 shooting. Great numbers for 95% of the players who have ever played the game...but very sub-par numbers for Wilt. And, he averaged 18.2 rpg, too, which was the WORST of his career. Even his overall playoff numbers were very poor for him. 18.3 ppg, a career LOW 20.2 rpg, and a playoff LOW of .455 shooting.

However, THAT Kareem faced THAT Wilt in TEN H2H games in that 70-71 season (five regular season, and five post-season.) Here were the combined numbers. Kareem outscored Wilt, per game, 26-23, while Wilt outshot Kareem, combined, .490 to .454; and outrebounded Kareem, per game, 18-16.

Once again, that may not have been a PRIME Kareem, BUT, it was arguably his greatest season. And, FOR SURE, that was NOT a PRIME Chamberlain. In fact, it was Wilt at his WORST.

Now, think about this... in Kareem's 85-86 season, he was 38 years old, and a FAR cry from his PRIME (he could barely get 6 rpg.) YET, how about this... in one game against a 23 year old Patrick Ewing, he outscored Ewing, 40-9, while outshooting him, 15-22 to 3-17. And only a few games apart from that massacre, he overwhelmed a helpless 23 year old Hakeem, outscoring him 46-18, and outshooting Hakeem, 21-30 to 8-16 (and in only 37 minutes BTW.) In fact, in that 85-86 season, and in five regular season H2H's, a WAY past his PRIME Kareem averaged 33 ppg on a mind-boggling .634 shooting against Hakeem.

Here again...THAT Kareem was near the end of his career. He could no longer jump, and he was much slower than a 70's Kareem. And yet, he just MURDERED both Ewing and Hakeem. What would a PRIME Kareem have dropped on those two helpless defenders?

Furthermore, what would a PRIME Wilt have dropped on Kareem in the 70's? He certainly dominated many of the same centers that Kareem faced, FAR more than Kareem did.

And, by extension, what would a PRIME Wilt have carpet-bombed Hakeem and Ewing with. A 7-2 Wilt (and easily 7-3 in shoes), weighing between 275-300 lbs; and with enormous strength; incredible leaping ability (hell, he was blocking 4-5 of Kareem's "unblockable" sky-hooks, per game, at age 35), and sprinter's speed (there were many that claimed he was the fastest player in the league in the 60's.) And a player who could hit routinely hit 15+ ft bank shots, 15 ft. jump shots, quick turn-around jumpers in the lane, sweeping hook shots, finger rolls...coming from a 7-8 wingspan, and thunderous dunks.


And, as Jlip alluded too...here was a Wilt, at nearly 37 years of age, LEADING the league in rebounding (and by bearly two per game); being voted first-team all-defense (and ahead of the likes of Cowens, Lanier, Hayes, Thurmond, and Kareem); and setting a FG% record of .727, that will never be broken. THEN, in the playoffs and covering 17 post-season games, he played 47.1 mpg, and averaged 22.5 rpg (in a league that averaged 50.6 rpg.) Just how impressive was that? That 22.5 rpg post-season average was the LAST time ANY NBA player ever averaged 20+ rpg in the post-season. In fact, the next greatest season, since, was Kareem's 17.3 rpg in the '77 playoffs. My god...in Wilt's very LAST game, all he did was score 23 points, on 9-16 shooting, with 21 rebounds, in game five of the Finals.

There is no way of ever knowing what numbers a PRIME Wilt would be capable of putting up in TODAY's NBA, but I am convinced he would do quite well. How many other 7-2 (7-3 in shoes), 300 lb, 7-8 wingspan, college high-jump champion, with sprinter's speed, and massive strength that no player could match in TODAY's NBA...are currently playing in the NBA?

[bwink23]

i remember reading an article of Isiah Thomas talking about when he first met Wilt.....he basically said he's seen and played against a lot of 7-footers, but Wilt just looked enormous compared to them.

[Round Mound]

Wilt would destroy todays league

The 2000s is the Worst Era Ever for Centers. The 90s which where inferior to the 80s also had better Center Competition

[Cangri]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hmLe-ZSAHsk&feature=related

Wilt in his Prime.
:roll: :roll: :roll: I just laught @ his "great post moves" :hammerhead:

[knightfall88]

215lb for a center lol. Thats what a SG should weigh

[Pointguard]

Naw im saying they are more into their craft. Back then there wasnt so many guys who were playing basketball their entire life. The whole league was "hey your big, you should come play basketball." Where as now they draft a kid who has been training his entire life to be a professional athlete.

Im not saying these guys werent good. they did not devote their entire lives to the game as guys do today. They werent eating the same. Working otu the same. They didnt have the same conditioning.
The conditioning Wilt had was crazy. They played super fast ball back then and Wilt went after rebounds like crazy 24rpg, block shots like crazy while scoring 40ppg over 7 years. While playing as much as 4 back to backs with at least one coast to coast trip in there with at least a couple of 5 hour airport waits and staying in hotels with six foot beds?

Or as Kblaze said:
"The reasons guys then had such insane numbers is how many posessions they had each game. You think it takes less energy to play 220 posessions than 160? And guys like Wilt, Russell, Hayes, and so on might play 45+ minutes a night. Just dragging up and down the court and extra 30+ times would wear out a lot of players now. Especially the bigger ones. You had guys like Wilt who were top flight quarter mile guys and Russell who was the worlds 7th rated high jumper and guys like Reed who lived on a farm for 20 years in Louisiana used to working all day. And they did it in shoes with no padding, drinking water not G series gatorade, and not having a trainer on the road and hottubs after every game. These guys might ride a bus 6 hours then get out take a nap and play a game in an arena with the heat not working as the 4th game of a back to back to back to back."

I don't get you putting Wilt in this era and not granting him the conditioning, diet, pampering and training of this era, as well as playing when he was young? Wilt would have the advantage of hiring Akeem to work on his moves as well. They called the game hard on Wilt so you would also have to include him being able to double pivot, hop, drop step, shuffle, employ a power game, have practice time, unlimited access to gyms, standard and uniform balls, gyms with level floors, shooting coaches, video coaches, bigman camp, left hand and dribble development camp, nutritionist, and superstar calls. Wilt today would look a lot better than he did awhile then."



yea they had skill sure. But night in and night out? They couldnt hold up.

.Not quite. I mean basically sure. But your seeing a change. Dwight being just the prime example. These older bigmen. Yes they can score. Shooting is something someone can do or not. If htey can shoot sure they can shoot.

CAN THEY PLAY DEFENSE. no.

Wilt had incredible timing and endurance. Wilt would go after 20 blocks in a game. He could do that and still have crazy rebounding numbers. With today's training Wilt's jump would be even more combustible. You bring up Dwight but size and strength (Bynum and Yao) bothers him. Size, strength and athletism nevermind good timing, smarts and more energy.

[Math2]

No way. Old school players ar enot as strong Wilt is stronger than any NBA player...when he was in his 50s. NOt as fast. Russell and Chamberlain were track stars....they are definitely faster than Howard... Not as athletic. :roll: :roll: :roll: Russell could jump higher than anyone in the NBA today.Not as conditioned. That could be considered true...but present players wouldn't be as conditioned then either.Any player from before... 1990 would get dominated I'd say any center from any era to play in the 60s, wouldn't be in consideration for the best center in the league. No one would be better than Russell or chamberlain.. Because today people prepare their bodies for their entire lives to play basketball.

They did not back then. This nostalgia is denying facts that todays athletes are FAR more athletic.

Dwight howard would stuff wilt over and over and over and over and over again. :lol Howard has no strength compared to Wilt.

That shit wouldnt even be a fun 1 on 1 to watch. I know, Howard would be crushed.


Your crazy. Stop being nostalgic. In 20 year swhen my generation is weaker, ill accept reality. Fact is wilt is not athletic enough.

Today there are 6' dudes whod rain points on oldschool dudes. They would destroy them.

:lol :lol :lol at your whhole post.

[Legends66NBA7]

:lol :lol :lol at your whhole post.

Yeah, no need to respond to him. He clearly is a prisoner of the moment fan and ignorance is bliss as well.

[La Frescobaldi]

Are you serious? You're joking with these posts right?

Here's a Chamberlain tomahawk in 1960.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EHAJjP6e6pg

Here's a clip of the guy getting higher than anybody else I ever saw in a game, and I've been watching the NBA since the mid-60s. Thats vertical leap, not a running leap.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EpVZS26BUs

Here's a clip of Wilt jamming on a guy just about LeBron's size named Gus Johnson. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QDEVzU6Qpu0

Here's a clip of Wilt blocking Kareem's skyhook twice in 5 seconds.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYq4CWeWaKg

Here's a clip of Chamberlain highlights in a college game. Check his speed by counting steps on the fast break at 1:10
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB43A-ODuLc

Tell me when you see a center in today's league that can play defense like this. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zaXHYlPECcc

Do guys on this board honestly believe crap like this?
**************************************
Originally Posted by Fatstogie
No way. Old school players ar enot as strong. NOt as fast. Not as athletic. Not as conditioned. Any player from before... 1990 would get dominated. Because today people prepare their bodies for their entire lives to play basketball.

They did not back then. This nostalgia is denying facts that todays athletes are FAR more athletic.
**************************

That is just hilariously naive.

Chamberlain was bigger then, he'd be bigger now.

Competition?
Dwight Howard is same size as Willis Reed. NO WAY is Howard more skilled than Willis: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qqeJp7OoPys

Kareem always said Nate Thurmond was the best defender he ever played against: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FyPYVp9f4Ag

Oh wait I forgot - Kareem Abdul-Jabbar retired before 1990, so he couldn't even make it to todays league.............................. wow

[senelcoolidge]

Most centers now are perimeter players?

Maybe more like most centers are not fundamentally sound and are projects in today's NBA. Great athletes, but not very good basketball players.

[32Dayz]

Eh.. I think when you account for
Possesions/level of competition/weaker defensive schemes
and the fact that Wilt probably had a much bigger size advantage over his "average" opponent then someone like Oneal had in the 90's and early 00's then it makes sense why he was so Dominant.

Put him in todays games where he probably wouldnt be on a team where their entire 0ffensive strategy was simply to dump him the ball on every possesion and where he would be getting consistently bodyed up by 2-3 defenders especially if he forced the issue on 0ffense and the fact that those 2-3 defender would be much bigger and stronger then the kind of average players you had back then and I doubt he would be the same player.

I see Wilt being like a slightly superior Version of Duncan on 0ffense. Maybe 25-32ppg at his Peak on around 50% shooting.

He wasn't very efficient back then on 0ffense despite him usually having an enormous athletic/size advantage if he had to face better athletes today and be doubled and triple "far" more often then he was back then it would be difficult for him to sustain such volume and efficiency even in comparison to what he did back then.

I think his game would be less scoring but more defense/rebounding much like Duncan.

[La Frescobaldi]

Like he was the second half of his career?

[jlauber]

I continue to read this here...


He wasn't very efficient back then on 0ffense despite him usually having an enormous athletic/size advantage if he had to face better athletes today and be doubled and triple "far" more often then he was back then it would be difficult for him to sustain such volume and efficiency even in comparison to what he did back then

And yet we have this...

http://biography.jrank.org/pages/2336/Chamberlain-Wilt.html


Several of the rules of college basketball had to be changed as a result of Chamberlain's talents, which simply dwarfed those of previous players. Opposing players double-and triple-teamed him and played a slowed-down game rather than attempt to confront Chamberlain's offensive skills head-on. These techniques helped the University of North Carolina defeat Kansas 54-53 in triple overtime in the 1957 championship game.

Such tactics also frustrated the rapidly developing Chamberlain, who startled the basketball world by turning professional rather than returning to Kansas for his senior year. NBA rules forbade him from joining the league until the year in which he would have graduated from college, so Chamberlain played for the razzle-dazzle touring professional team the Harlem Globetrotters during the 1958-59 season. He joined the Philadelphia Warriors in 1959, having already collected a large bonus for signing.

Individual Triumphs in NBA
Chamberlain was an NBA star from the beginning, leading the league in scoring and rebounding, and taking home honors not only for Rookie of the Year but also for Most Valuable Player. Frustrated by defensive tactics similar to those he had faced in college, and by what he considered biased officiating, he threatened to leave the league and return to the Globetrotters in 1960. But he did not follow through on his threat, and soon learned to outmaneuver his tormentors through sheer size, speed, and skill.




and this...


In Chamberlain's first year, and for several years afterward, opposing teams simply didn't know how to handle him. Tom Heinsohn, the great Celtics forward who later became a coach and broadcaster, said Boston was one of the first clubs to apply a team-defense concept to stop Chamberlain. "We went for his weakness," Heinsohn told the Philadelphia Daily News in 1991, "tried to send him to the foul line, and in doing that he took the most brutal pounding of any player ever. I hear people today talk about hard fouls. Half the fouls against him were hard fouls."


and this...

http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,940232,00.html


He stood there, just to the right of the basket, a placid. 7-ft. 1 1/16-in, giant watching impassively as his teammates maneuvered the ball in backcourt. The New York Knickerbockers tried to box him in; they clutched at his jersey, leaned against his chest, stepped on his toes. Then Wilt Chamberlain came alive. With the aplomb of a cop palming an apple, he reached out one massive hand and plucked the basketball out of the air. Spinning violently, he ripped clear of the elbowing surge, took a step toward the basket and jumped. For an instant, he seemed suspended in midair, his head on a level with the 10-ft.-high basket. Slowly, gently, the ball dribbled off his fingertips, through the net, and the San Francisco Warriors went on to a 142-134 victory. New York Coach Ed Donovan sadly shook his head. "He's phenomenal." he sighed. "How does anyone stop Wilt Chamberlain?"



http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,940232,00.html

[QUOTE]Most basketball stars have one great talent: Russell's is defense, Elgin Baylor's is shooting, Bob Cousy's is setting up plays and passing. Chamberlain does almost everything, better than anyone else. He is the pros' fiercest rebounder, and his shooting repertory includes such inimitable specialties as the "Dipper Dunk" (in which he simply stretches up and lays the ball in the basket), the "Stuff Shot" (in which he jumps up and rams the ball through the net from above), [B]and the "Fadeaway Jump"

[jlauber]

and this one...

http://samcelt.forumotion.net/t2803-wilt-meets-bill-and-tommy-4000-words

[QUOTE]At 7

[32Dayz]

I am not saying Wilt didn't ever get doubled or tripled but from the majority of available footage I have seen from him I'd say 75+% he was guarded on M2M coverage.

Perhaps if the league would release all the available footage I would see that was simply just an anomaly and most cases he was not defended as such.

It's a shame Wilt didn't play in the media age so we could really see what he was made out of but instead we are forced to rely on often contradicting story's of him from the past from several writers that would be all but unknown by today's generation.

I dont deny Wilt's greatness only that I dont think he would easily be the best or even 2nd best player if you just magically dropped him into the 80's, 90's or 00's.

He'd "probably" be a Top 1-5 Player every year though in his Young and Prime dayz.

[305Baller]

I am not saying Wilt didn't ever get doubled or tripled but from the majority of available footage I have seen from him I'd say 75+% he was guarded on M2M coverage.

Perhaps if the league would release all the available footage I would see that was simply just an anomaly and most cases he was not defended as such.

It's a shame Wilt didn't play in the media age so we could really see what he was made out of but instead we are forced to rely on often contradicting story's of him from the past from several writers that would be all but unknown by today's generation.

I dont deny Wilt's greatness only that I dont think he would easily be the best or even 2nd best player if you just magically dropped him into the 80's, 90's or 00's.

He'd "probably" be a Top 1-5 Player every year though in his Young and Prime dayz.

I think it is possible he would be the best player, but he is not going to average 50ppg. That I is impossible today. But hey, he did do the "seemingly impossible" back in the day.

[jlauber]

I am not saying Wilt didn't ever get doubled or tripled but from the majority of available footage I have seen from him I'd say 75+% he was guarded on M2M coverage.Perhaps if the league would release all the available footage I would see that was simply just an anomaly and most cases he was not defended as such.

It's a shame Wilt didn't play in the media age so we could really see what he was made out of but instead we are forced to rely on often contradicting story's of him from the past from several writers that would be all but unknown by today's generation.

I dont deny Wilt's greatness only that I dont think he would easily be the best or even 2nd best player if you just magically dropped him into the 80's, 90's or 00's.

He'd "probably" be a Top 1-5 Player every year though in his Young and Prime dayz.

Another poster here made that claim, using YouTube footage of the second half of game four of the '64 Finals, which was broken into four parts. Of course, he only used the first part.

I then provided the link to the second part, and in it, Wilt was doubled, tripled, or swarmed on nearly every possession.

And the fact was/is...we only have a portions of a HANDFUL of Wilt's 1200 games. And, unfortunately, while those games show a remarkable athlete, they are among the WORST games of Chamberlain's career.

The best response that I can give anyone that attempts to use that extremely limited footage as some kind of example is this...

When we ever get footage of just a few of Wilt's 271 40+ point games, then maybe we can get a better idea of just how really good this guy was.

[32Dayz]

I am onboard with you man I dont attempt to judge Chamberlain in an "absolute" sort of sense as I dont have the footage or enough information about him to do so.

I can only judge him based on various story's from different people many who say very different things about him and from the limited footage that is available of him.

Still I think of him highly, rank him highly on my GOAT List and think he would easily be a Top 5 Player in this generation.

[Sarcastic]

I think it is possible he would be the best player, but he is not going to average 50ppg. That I is impossible today. But hey, he did do the "seemingly impossible" back in the day.

Scoring 50 ppg is "impossible" in every era, since no one else has ever done it in any other era as well.

[La Frescobaldi]

I think it is possible he would be the best player, but he is not going to average 50ppg. That I is impossible today. But hey, he did do the "seemingly impossible" back in the day.


Nobody ever did this either:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079733/index.htm

Wilt had a quadruple double in the playoffs against the Celtics.

"Wilt Chamberlain had 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists and blocked 12 shots."

[PHILA]

Wilt had a quadruple double in the playoffs against the Celtics.

"Wilt Chamberlain had 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists and blocked 12 shots." :applause:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFrhKI63e80#t=6m30s

In the first game Hal Greer tossed in 39 points, while Wilt Chamberlain had 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists and blocked 12 shots.

[jlauber]

:applause:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFrhKI63e80#t=6m30s

In the first game Hal Greer tossed in 39 points, while Wilt Chamberlain had 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists and blocked 12 shots.

BUT, Chamberlain only shot 6-10 from the line in that game (9-13 from the field.) Had he made all of ten of his FT's, his team would have won that game 131-113 instead of only 127-113.

That game probably cost Wilt 3-4 more rings.

[Pointguard]

Scoring 50 ppg is "impossible" in every era, since no one else has ever done it in any other era as well.
So true, when you think about it, 40ppg is impossible.

[Pointguard]

Nobody ever did this either:

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1079733/index.htm

Wilt had a quadruple double in the playoffs against the Celtics.

"Wilt Chamberlain had 24 points, 32 rebounds, 13 assists and blocked 12 shots."

Against the greatest defender ever and a great defensive team.

[jlauber]

Scoring 50 ppg is "impossible" in every era, since no one else has ever done it in any other era as well.

When Wilt came into the league the scoring record was 29.2 ppg; the rebounding record was 23.0 rpg, and the FG% record was .490.

I wonder how many true fans of the game, in 1959, imagined a player averaging 50 ppg over an entire season, or scoring 100 points in a game, or ripping down 27 rpg in a season, or grabbing 55 rebounds in a game, or shooting .683 and even .727 in a season, or blocking 23 or 25 shots in a game, or having multiple quad-doubles.


Then, after Chamberlain "retired", following his 14 years in the league, no one has approached ANY of those marks since.

[Fatstogie]

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]"There is a common belief that Wilt was so good because he played in an era where there was no competition or size to compete with Wilt. I am going to show that Wilt would dominate in today

[Fatstogie]

When Wilt came into the league the scoring record was 29.2 ppg; the rebounding record was 23.0 rpg, and the FG% record was .490.

I wonder how many true fans of the game, in 1959, imagined a player averaging 50 ppg over an entire season, or scoring 100 points in a game, or ripping down 27 rpg in a season, or grabbing 55 rebounds in a game, or shooting .683 and even .727 in a season, or blocking 23 or 25 shots in a game, or having multiple quad-doubles.


Then, after Chamberlain "retired", following his 14 years in the league, no one has approached ANY of those marks since.

And no one ever will. CAuse the league was a joke back then and wilt was a freak.

Today? Everyone is a freak. So youll never see those numbers again becaues the league is much more difficult with much more talent. Even if he could score that many, no honky ass white teammates would stand around and watch.

People would not wanna play with him. CAuse theres more skill. Everyone can score now. His stats should almost get a *. If he played today hed be good.

BUT YOU ARE INA DREAM WORLD IF YOU THINK HES GETTING 100 POITNS. Would likely, RARELY, get 30.

[jlauber]

And here are some other feats that are seldom brought up (except by myself and perhaps a few others)...

There have been 131 30-30 games in NBA history, and Chamberlain has 103 of them. Other than Wilt, there have been SIX 40-30 games in NBA history, ...while Chamberlain had 55 (and 17 of them came against Russell.) There have been eight 40-40 games in NBA history, and Wilt has ALL of them (including one against Russell.) There have been 27 50-30 games in the history of the NBA, and Chamberlain has 25 of them. There have been nine 60-30 games NBA history, and Wilt has SEVEN of them, including a 68-34 game, and a remarkable 73-36 game against 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy. There have been FOUR 50-40 games in NBA history, and Wilt has them ALL, including a 78-43 game.

Chamberlain also has the THREE highest "perfect games" in NBA history, with games of 15-15, 16-16, and 18-18. He also made 35 straight FGAs. He as THREE of the four highest FG%'s in a 60+ point game, and the highest mark of .829 in a game in which he scored 66 points on 29-35 shooting. He outshot the league by margins of .244 and .271 in '67 and '73. The highest "non-Wilt" mark is Artis Gilmore's .184 margin in the 80-81 season.

Chamberlain had 271 40+ point games in his career (including the only known 40 point game against 6-11 HOFer Nate Thurmond.) MJ is next with 173. Wilt had 118 50+ point games (including THREE against HOFer Willis Reed, and FIVE against Russell.) MJ is next with 31. Chamberlain had 32 60+ point games (including a 62 point game against Russell.) The rest of the entire NBA, in it's entire history... 30. MJ and Kobe are next with five each. There have been TEN 70+ point games in NBA history, and Chamberlain has SIX of them (including a 73 point game against HOFer Bellamy.)

There have been 28 40+ rebound games in NBA history, and Chamberlain has 15 of them, including the all-time record of 55, in a game in which he outrebounded Russell by a 55-19 margin.

There has only been one 20-20-20 game in NBA history, and, guess who has it? A 22 point, 25 rebound, 21 assist game BTW. And while there have been many triple-double games, how about a 53 point, 32 rebound, 14 assist game (and on 24-29 shooting from the field)?

Chamberlain had TWO separate streaks of 14 games in a row in which he scored 40+ points, and he averaged 53 and 54 ppg in those two streaks. He also had a streak of 126 straight 25+ point games, and another streak of 65 straight 30+ point games. Then there was his streak of 7 straight 50+ point games (and he holds the next three longest streaks of 6, 5, and 5.) And how about this streak...he scored 351 points in a span of five games, or 70 ppg!

The fact is, Wilt STILL holds some 130+ NBA records. And in many cases he holds the next best mark(s) as well. And many of them will never be approached, either (like playing 48.5 mpg in a season, or grabbing 55 rebounds in a game, or scoring 100 points in game, or averaging 50 ppg in a season, etc, etc.)

[Jameerthefear]

Wilt would average 9 TOs per game in todays league.

[jlauber]

When wilt was playing? There werent guys on earth who were 5'6 and dunking. Now their are. So you no longer need the "stilt" to get to the rim. Hes too slow.

And players like Dwight would D his ass up.

Fact is more people are more athletic now. Its hwy the league has gotten smaller. Because a large guy taller than everyone just doesnt work anymore. And thats what wilt was.

If you look at the D hew as up against? Its a joke.

How about the 5-9 Calvin Murphy, who played college ball in the late 60's, and would be in the NBA for a number of seasons?

http://apse.dallasnews.com/contest1999/writing/100-250.hartford2.html


His first dunk came in the 10th grade.

He was 5-8.

"My hands were too small, so I couldn't palm the ball with one hand," he says. "One day I threw it off the backboard, went up, grabbed it with two hands and dunked it. It surprised me I was up that high. But yeah, it was something, a rush."




Or 6-6 Gus Johnson, who was shattering backboards in the 60's?

http://www.jockbio.com/Classic/Gus_Johnson/Gus_Johnson_bio.html


As for Gus’s legacy at Idaho, that can be summed up in two words: The Nail. In 1963, he was hanging out with fellow students at the Corner Club. The conversation turned to his jumping ability. Just how high can you jump?, Gus was asked. He didn’t have an answer. He had never thought to measure his vertical leap. Gus was game right there and then. Flatfooted, in his street clothes, he exploded into the air and slapped a ceiling beam at a spot subsequently measured at 11’ 6”. Owner Herm Goetz hammered a nail into the beam at the spot and made it known that anyone who could repeat Gus’s feat would drink for free.

Over the years, countless Vandals, as well as visiting players, tried and failed to reach that nail. Among those who came up short was seven-footer Bill Walton. Finally, in 1986, Joey Johnson (younger brother of Dennis Johnson) reached the nail. Johnson was a legendary leaper who could touch his chin to a regulation rim. Corner Club denizens were quick to point out that the nail was merely a “starting point.” Gus once plucked a coin off the top of an NBA backboard, some 13 feet off the floor.



David Thompson?

http://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2124


But by the time he was a 5-7 eighth-grader, Thompson could dunk.



http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Manigault


Manigault was particularly famous for his leaping abilities on the basketball court, including his signature move - the double dunk. He would dunk the ball, catch it with his left hand, switch the ball to his right hand, bring it back around to the top of the basket and jam it through again, all done while still in the air on a single jump, and without hanging on the rim.[2] Like other street basketballers of the day such as Jackie Jackson, Earl was reportedly able to touch the top of the backboard to retrieve quarters and dollar bills, part of "elaborate innovations and tricks" elite street players of the era performed before games to help build their reputations.[3] He was only 6'1", but wore ankle weights constantly during practice as a child which helped him to build up tremendous jumping ability. He once dunked two-handed during a game from near the foul line over two players much taller than himself (Sahil Muliyil 5'8", David Urenda 5'9").[3] He once reverse dunked 36 times in a row to win a $60 bet.[4]

But to prove dunking was not his only skill, he would practice hundreds of shots each day, making him a deadly long-range shooter as well. Manigault played with some of the best players of his day, such as Earl Monroe, Connie Hawkins, and Kareem Abdul-Jabbar, the latter of whom went as far as calling Manigault the greatest player he had ever seen. When Abdul-Jabbar finished his career with the Los Angeles Lakers and had his number retired at the Los Angeles Forum, he was asked who was the greatest player he had played with or against. After a long silence, he answered, "That would have to be 'The Goat'".[5]




How about a 6-4 WHITE guy back in the 40's?

http://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1821


Jim Pollard has been called pro basketball's first power forward. He stood 6-5, a human pogo stick gifted with a 42-inch vertical leap. It's been said he could swipe quarters off the top of the backboard and slam-dunk from the free-throw line. Back then, dunking was considered poor sportsmanship, so Pollard reduced his throwdowns to a novelty act.



I could go on, but CLEARLY, there were GREAT leapers long before Jordan came along.

[millwad]

How about the 5-9 Calvin Murphy, who played college ball in the late 60's, and would be in the NBA for a number of seasons?

http://apse.dallasnews.com/contest1999/writing/100-250.hartford2.html

Calvin joined the league like 11 years after Chamberlain arrived and the average guard in Wilt's statistical prime didn't have jumping ability of Murphy. And being 5-9 and able to dunk is not anything impressive really, I was 13 and 6-1 first time I dunked and I would look like a joke next to the beasts of the modern era..



Or 6-6 Gus Johnson, who was shattering backboards in the 60's?

http://www.jockbio.com/Classic/Gus_Johnson/Gus_Johnson_bio.html

Being a 6'6 dunker is not impressive. And we all know how shitty those backboards really were..
And haha, are we supposed to believe that Dennis Johnson's brother could put his chin above the ring..:facepalm



David Thompson?

http://www.apbr.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2124

Thompson joined the league 17 years after Chamberlain..




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earl_Manigault

And again you trust everything you read, sure, Manigault could dunk the ball twice before landing..:facepalm



I could go on, but CLEARLY, there were GREAT leapers long before Jordan came along.

Yes, but it's a fact that Chamberlain played in a way less athletic league...

[jlauber]

Calvin joined the league like 11 years after Chamberlain arrived and the average guard in Wilt's statistical prime didn't have jumping ability of Murphy. And being 5-9 and able to dunk is not anything impressive really, I was 13 and 6-1 first time I dunked and I would look like a joke next to the beasts of the modern era..

..

Murphy was in ninth grade and was 5-8, and he dunked with TWO hands.



Being a 6'6 dunker is not impressive. And we all know how shitty those backboards really were..
And haha, are we supposed to believe that Dennis Johnson's brother could put his chin above the ring

Disprove it.



Thompson joined the league 17 years after Chamberlain..


Thompson was in the ABA in '75. Wilt retired from the NBA in '73. And BTW, a 37 year old Wilt was the HIGHEST leaper on the '74 Conquistadors. Incidently, when Thompson was a 5-7 8th grader in 1966, he was dunking the ball.


And again you trust everything you read, sure, Manigault could dunk the ball twice before landing

So does that mean you think he would just be an average leaper in today's game? You are pathetic.




Yes, but it's a fact that Chamberlain played in a way less athletic league...

That's why James White is a completely worthless NBA player, and players like 6-9 Kevin Love RUNS AWAY with the rebounding title, a 37 year old 6-2 Steve Nash wins the assist title, and a 7-0 white guy wins the blocked shot title.


And before someone come's back and claims that Wilt was not dominating the league in the 70's like he did in the 60's...

Chamberlain LED the NBA in rebounding in nearly EVERY season, including by solid margins in his last two seasons, and then he averaged a whopping 22.5 rpg in his LAST post-season, and covering 17 games. The next best mark since? Kareem's 17.3 rpg in '77.

Wilt also shot .649 and an eye-popping .727 from the floor in his last two seasons, the latter being a record that will be broken.

As late as 1969, Chamberlain hung TWO 60+ point games (in a league that averaged 112 ppg.) He also pounded Russell with a 35 point game, and in another game against him that season, he outrebounded him, 42-18. He was LEADING the NBA in scoring at the start of the 69-70 season, at 32.2 ppg and on 60% shooting, when he went down with his devastating knee injury. Included in those nine games, were games of 37 on 7-0 Tom Boerwinkle, a 38 point game on reigning MVP Wes Unseld, a 43 point game on Bob Rule (look him up, he was an outstanding player.)Even then, and at nowhere near 100%, he averaged 23.2 ppg, 24.1 rpg, and shot .625 in a seven game Finals, which included a 45 point, 20-27 shooting, 27 rebound "must-win" game six.

In his 70-71 season, at 34 years of age, and only a year removed from major knee surgery, he battled Kareem in TEN H2H games, and over the course of those games, Kareem averaged 26 ppg to Wilt's 23, but Wilt outrebounded him 17.6 pg to 15.6 rpg, and outshot him, .490 to .454.

In his 71-72 season, he hung TWO 30-30 games, including a 31-32 game against 6-11 HOFer Bob Lanier. In fact, he averaged 29 ppg against Lanier that season in FIVE H2H games.

In Wilt's LAST season, he faced a PRIME Kareem in six H2H games, and outshot Abdul Jabbar over that span by an incredible .737 to .450 margin, including one game in which he outscored Kareem, 24-21, while outshooting him, 10-14 to 10-27. In the playoffs, he outrebounded Thurmond, 23.6 rpg to 17.2 rpg, while outshooting Nate, .550 to .398. In his LAST GAME, he hung a 23 point, on 9-16 shooting, 21 rebound game on HOFer Willis Reed.

[La Frescobaldi]

And no one ever will. CAuse the league was a joke back then and wilt was a freak.

Today? Everyone is a freak. So youll never see those numbers again becaues the league is much more difficult with much more talent. Even if he could score that many, no honky ass white teammates would stand around and watch.

People would not wanna play with him. CAuse theres more skill. Everyone can score now. His stats should almost get a *. If he played today hed be good.

BUT YOU ARE INA DREAM WORLD IF YOU THINK HES GETTING 100 POITNS. Would likely, RARELY, get 30.

************************************
Kobe Bryant scored 81 points and sat out 6 minutes. the league was a joke back then and Kobe was a freak.
************************************

Today? Everyone is a freak. So youll never see those numbers again becaues the league is much more difficult with much more talent. Even if he could score that many, no (hmmm how about lumbering Euro-League honkyass guys?) teammates would stand around and watch.

People would not wanna play with him. CAuse theres more skill. Everyone can score now. His stats should almost get a *. If he played today hed be good.

BUT YOU ARE INA DREAM WORLD IF YOU THINK HES GETTING 81 POITNS. Would likely, RARELY, get 30.

***
Even Jordan couldn't get 70. so in today's league nobody can get 81, the league is too good .

[jlauber]

************************************
Kobe Bryant scored 81 points and sat out 6 minutes. the league was a joke back then and Kobe was a freak.
************************************

Today? Everyone is a freak. So youll never see those numbers again becaues the league is much more difficult with much more talent. Even if he could score that many, no (hmmm how about lumbering Euro-League honkyass guys?) teammates would stand around and watch.

People would not wanna play with him. CAuse theres more skill. Everyone can score now. His stats should almost get a *. If he played today hed be good.

BUT YOU ARE INA DREAM WORLD IF YOU THINK HES GETTING 81 POITNS. Would likely, RARELY, get 30.

***
Even Jordan couldn't get 70. so in today's league nobody can get 81, the league is too good .


I will rep you when I can...

And once again, you would never see a 6-9 WHITE guy leading the NBA in rebounding in TODAY's NBA. Nor a 6-3 37 year old WHITE guy leading TODAY's NBA in assists. Nor a 7-0 WHITE guy leading TODAY's NBA in blocked shots. Nor a WHITE guy winning the FMVP.

Nor would you see a 6-6 CENTER in TODAY's NBA (like say a Chuck Hayes for instance.) Nor would you have seen a 6-7 CENTER leading the league in rebounding, TWICE, and winning DPOY's as recently as a few year's ago.

All of that would be an IMPOSSIBILITY in TODAY's NBA.

[abuC]

He'd be the best center in the league today, however he wouldn't post better numbers than a prime Shaq.

[millwad]

I will rep you when I can...

And once again, you would never see a 6-9 WHITE guy leading the NBA in rebounding in TODAY's NBA. Nor a 6-3 37 year old WHITE guy leading TODAY's NBA in assists. Nor a 7-0 WHITE guy leading TODAY's NBA in blocked shots. Nor a WHITE guy winning the FMVP.

You keep trolling about Love and his rebounding and that he's 6'9 and white. You easily tend to forget that a freaking 6'5 SF in Baylor had 3 seasons where he averaged more rebounds than what Love who lead the league this year in rebounding averaged..

And it's funny, Nash should be judged based on his skillset, not is physical abilities. And Ibaka lead the NBA in blocked shots(http://www.basketball-reference.com/leaders/blk_progress.html), not Bogut although Bogut had a higher average but he also missed games.

And your beloved white guy who won the finals MVP happens to be one of the most skilled PF's of all-time and his skillset is nothing but amazing. It's not about colour you idiot, it's about skillset.

The reason why people mock your beloved white players from the 50's and 60's is because most of them lacked both in skillset and athletisism. Are you gonna claim that Nash isn't skilled? That Love isn't skilled and that Nowitzki ain't skilled?:facepalm




Nor would you see a 6-6 CENTER in TODAY's NBA (like say a Chuck Hayes for instance.) Nor would you have seen a 6-7 CENTER leading the league in rebounding, TWICE, and winning DPOY's as recently as a few year's ago.

All of that would be an IMPOSSIBILITY in TODAY's NBA.

Yeah, because we have so many 6-6 centers in today's NBA..:facepalm
And your beloved Chuck Hayes is the worst starting center in the league and he's only getting the playing time he recieves because of Yao being injured..:facepalm

[32Dayz]

Did Wilt ever shatter or pull down a backboard?

With his power and those weak back boards they used to have you'd think he would have pulled down a whole bunch.

[millwad]

Did Wilt ever shatter or pull down a backboard?

With his power and those weak back boards they used to have you'd think he would have pulled down a whole bunch.

I've thought about this as well..
We've heard stories about how strong he was and that he was so strong that he carried two men on each arm to slam the ball home with 2 hands and that he broke one players toe by slamming a basketball on it but still, no shattered backboards?

MY GOD, even 6-6 Gus Johnson shattered backboards...

But it's okey, after all, Wilt could dunk from the FT-line without a running start according to Jlauber so he had something else to be proud of..

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

But it's okey, after all, Wilt could dunk from the FT-line without a running start according to Jlauber

:oldlol: :roll:

[La Frescobaldi]

People weren't interested in that back then. Who would want to ruin a game like that

[Asukal]

You know what? My grandpa once told me he saw Wilt jump down from the top of the statue of liberty. True story! :rolleyes:

Can't believe some people believe everything they read just because Wilt is their favorite player.... :facepalm :facepalm :facepalm

[La Frescobaldi]

I don't know the myths on ish about Wilt dunking free throws.... but here is some fact.

Interview with of Tex Winter, Kansas State basketball coach back in the 50s, talking about being chair of the Coaches Rules committee, and going to see Chamberlain as a freshman at KU.

You may or may not know, but K State - KU is a terrific rivalry.......... so for Tex to come up with some rules that would stop the arch-rival is, well, typical college operations.

The whole interview is awesome, the Chamberlain talk starts about 3:15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyz-FhP2ONk

Kind of like a Bill of Attainder lol "legislating" against Chamberlain.

Of course, no video footage, so it never happened right

[jlauber]

I don't know the myths on ish about Wilt dunking free throws.... but here is some fact.

Interview with of Tex Winter, Kansas State basketball coach back in the 50s, talking about being chair of the Coaches Rules committee, and going to see Chamberlain as a freshman at KU.

You may or may not know, but K State - KU is a terrific rivalry.......... so for Tex to come up with some rules that would stop the arch-rival is, well, typical college operations.

The whole interview is awesome, the Chamberlain talk starts about 3:15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyz-FhP2ONk

Kind of like a Bill of Attainder lol "legislating" against Chamberlain.

Of course, no video footage, so it never happened right

Wilt, himself claimed that he accomplished that feat quite often. BUT, because there was no video footage of, the handful of "anti-Wilt" posters here naturally dismissed it. NOW, we have TEX WINTER confirming that fact.

SONNY HILL claimed that he witnessed Wilt touching the top of the backboard. The "Wilt-haters" dismissed it. It was impossible. No one else has done it. Not even James White. YET, we now have video footage of Chamberlain, while at KU, with his hand very near the top of the backboard...in a jump in which he goes straight up, and without benefit of a running start. We also have FOOTAGE of a 34 year old Wilt, at 300+ lbs., and only a year removed from major knee surgery, ...again, going straight up, with no running start, and his hand reaches above the square, or nearly 12 ft.

Of course, the "Wilt-bashers" will say...see, he couldn't do it.

Which gets me to my point on the 6-6 Gus Johnson, who some have claimed could touch the top of the backboard. We obviously don't have the VIDEO FOOTAGE, but here is what we do KNOW. He made a straight up leap, and touched a nail at the 11' 6" mark. On the surface, that doesn't seem so incredible. After all, we have had NBA players touch the 12' 6" mark.

HOWEVER, it took all that the 6-4 Joey Johnson could do, to equal that mark. So what you ask...or as Millwad chimed in with this:


Being a 6'6 dunker is not impressive. And we all know how shitty those backboards really were..
And haha, are we supposed to believe that Dennis Johnson's brother could put his chin above the ring

I bet Millwad never saw Joey Johnson play, even though he was dunking on 11'-7" baskets back in the 90's. Or that he had a measured vertical of 52".

http://tucsoncitizen.com/wildaboutazcats/2010/07/25/johnsons-potential-literally-through-the-roof/


Joey Johnson, a former ASU player, was once measured with a 52-inch vertical leap. That measures to 4 feet, 4 inches. The elder Johnson was listed at 6 feet, 3 inches, during his playing days. Add that up: Just by him leaping, the top of his head could go to 10 feet, 7 inches. The standard height of basketball rim is 10 feet.


He dunked a basketball in 1993 on a rim hoisted 11 feet, 7 inches, which was a world record until Harlem Globetrotters Michael “Wild Thing” Wilson and Sean “Elevator” Williams dunked a ball on an 11-8 rim in 1996.



Think about that. Joey Johnson with his head easily above the rim, had a difficult time, in 1988, touching the same nail that Gus Johnson touched in 1963.

And, that again brings us back to Wilt. We KNOW that with a standing leap, Wilt could nearly touch 13 ft. If Johnson's standing leap could only go slightly above 11' 6", just how high would a Wilt, with a running start, have topped out at?

At least we can finally put an end to the idiotic "anti-Wilt" clan continually denying what so MANY have claimed in the last 50+ years.

Incidently, as a sidenote about long-jumping...Bob Beamon jumped 29' 2" in 1968. That record stood until 1991, when Mike Powell jumped 29' 4"...which is STILL the record. So, in the last 40+ years, we have seen the long jump "jump" by a measely TWO INCHES. Kind of puts a different perspective on the athletes of the 60's and those of even today (who have all the advantages of modern technology.)


Which brings me to this guy...


Can't believe some people believe everything they read just because Wilt is their favorite player

Most rational Chamberlain posters, and I am certainly in that category, have claimed that Wilt was capable of around a 42" vertical leap, and a 500+ bench press. (The "non-rational" Wilt fans will point out that the internet is loaded with accounts of Wilt with a 50+ vertical, or 550-600 lb. bench press.) We will probably never see any kind of footage confirming Wilt's bench, but we have first hand accounts of him doing it. We also have articles as early as 1964 claiming he was benching 425 lbs, and an eye-witness account of him benching 465 at age 59. And the net is plastered with a TON of accounts of his incredible strength.

As for the vertical, we now HAVE the footage's which show his phenomenal leaping ability. Of course, he was a HIGH JUMP champion, and with horrible form, and doing it PART TIME. He was also a 7-2 man, with a measured 7-8 wingspan, that was a LONG JUMPER, and a TRIPLE JUMPER at KU (as well as a SPRINTER.) In Wilt's first book, there is also a photo of him, playing volleyball sometime in the late 60's or early 70's, in which his waist is above the top of the net. Sportswriter George Kiseda measured a Wilt vertical leap at 42." We have SONNY HILL and TEX WINTER backing up his own claims.

AND, as I have LONG maintained here...where are all of those that actually saw Chamberlain play, who would DISPUTE these staggering claims? Wilt played with HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of different players in his career, and even after his NBA days. He was coached by SEVERAL coaches, and there were DOZENS of coaches who coached against him. He was followed by MANY members of the media. And his game was watched by perhaps MILLIONS of fans in his career. Where are those that would CHALLENGE the MANY astonishing physical feats that were attributed to Wilt? I have never read one LEGITIMATE eye-witness account that claimed that Wilt could not touch the top of the backboard, or bench 500 lbs.


There are the few that have scoffed at the idea that Wilt had a good outside shot. After all, he was a poor FT shooter (of course, Bruce Bowen won the 3pt title in a season in which he shot .404 from the line, too.) BUT, we had a HOF coach, and not one of Wilt's, who witnessed it.

And then, in the last few months, new VIDEO footage, as well as deleted old footage, has surfaced which CLEARLY shows Chamberlain hitting MANY shots from 12-15+ feet.

Hopefully one day, we will get some full games from perhaps a few of his 271 40+ point games, too.

In any case, one thing is becoming quite clear...it is getting worse-and-worse everyday, to be a "Wilt-basher."

[32Dayz]

I definitely dont think it would be illogical to think a Young/Skinny Wilt could touch the top of the back board.

With his length + hops it should be possible.

I dont think we can say for certain if he could or couldn't without more video of Young Wilt but believing he could is not stupid.

It's obvious though "based on what we know and have seen so far" that for someone of his size he had some of the greatest hops ever.

Even Young Kareem I believe mentioned how even older Wilt had tremendous hops which helped him when he attempted to defend his Sky-Hook.

[jlauber]

I definitely dont think it would be illogical to think a Young/Skinny Wilt could touch the top of the back board.

With his length + hops it should be possible.

I dont think we can say for certain if he could or couldn't without more video of Young Wilt but believing he could is not stupid.

It's obvious though "based on what we know and have seen so far" that for someone of his size he had some of the greatest hops ever.

Even Young Kareem I believe mentioned how even older Wilt had tremendous hops which helped him when he attempted to defend his Sky-Hook.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EpVZS26BUs

And yes, an OLD Wilt was outjumping a YOUNG Kareem.

And how about a 34 year old Wilt, at 300+ lbs, and on a surgically repaired knee...with a straight-up jump (no running start at all)...reaching the top of the square with his fingertips. Take a look at just past the 30:00 mark, and then they do a slow motion replay several times, including a couple just past the 31:00 mark.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipl5DeHnMVI

[305Baller]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB43A-ODuLc

Ok, so after seeing the above video and seeing Wilt's insane athletic ability, not only am I proclaiming Wilt as a giant sized Kevin Durant, I am going to go ahead and validate his 50ppg season as an extraordinary achievement of athletic proportions.

Titles really do not begin to become relevant until after bringing up 50ppg in 61-62.

My new top 6:
Wilt - Superhero-type separation.
Kareem - Total package, most consistent.
Shaq - Most dominant of the modern age.
Russell - Greatest team center ever?
Hakeem- Only one more skilled is Kareem
Robinson - His 70 point game puts him over Malone, Walton

[jlauber]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB43A-ODuLc

Ok, so after seeing the above video and seeing Wilt's insane athletic ability, not only am I proclaiming Wilt as a giant sized Kevin Durant, I am going to go ahead and validate his 50ppg season as an extraordinary achievement of athletic proportions.

Titles really do not begin to become relevant until after bringing up 50ppg in 61-62.

My new top 6:
Wilt - Superhero-type separation.
Kareem - Total package, most consistent.
Shaq - Most dominant of the modern age.
Russell - Greatest team center ever?
Hakeem- Only one more skilled is Hakeem
Robinson - His 70 point game puts him over Malone, Walton

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rCWrGWuU2Ak

Hopefully more and more Wilt footage becomes available. I still hold out some kind of hope that we will get one of his 271 40+ point games, or even perhaps one of his 118 50+ point games. And how incredible would it be to see one of his 32 60+ point games (maybe his 62 point game against Russell, or his 73-36 game against 6-11 HOFer Walt Bellamy, or his 78-43 game against the Lakers in '61-62, or his last 60+ game, in 1969, in which he scored 66 points on 29-35 shooting.)

[D-Wade316]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kB43A-ODuLc

Ok, so after seeing the above video and seeing Wilt's insane athletic ability, not only am I proclaiming Wilt as a giant sized Kevin Durant, I am going to go ahead and validate his 50ppg season as an extraordinary achievement of athletic proportions.

Titles really do not begin to become relevant until after bringing up 50ppg in 61-62.

My new top 6:
Wilt - Superhero-type separation.
Kareem - Total package, most consistent.
Shaq - Most dominant of the modern age.
Russell - Greatest team center ever?
Hakeem- Only one more skilled is Kareem
Robinson - His 70 point game puts him over Malone, Walton
Your top-6 center of all-time?

[305Baller]

Your top-6 center of all-time?

yes

[Fatstogie]

LOL im so sick of this dude. Suit is old ass up and get him on the hardwood....

After hes done benching 500lbs....

[Pointguard]

I don't know the myths on ish about Wilt dunking free throws.... but here is some fact.

Interview with of Tex Winter, Kansas State basketball coach back in the 50s, talking about being chair of the Coaches Rules committee, and going to see Chamberlain as a freshman at KU.

You may or may not know, but K State - KU is a terrific rivalry.......... so for Tex to come up with some rules that would stop the arch-rival is, well, typical college operations.

The whole interview is awesome, the Chamberlain talk starts about 3:15

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fyz-FhP2ONk

Kind of like a Bill of Attainder lol "legislating" against Chamberlain.

Of course, no video footage, so it never happened right
Repped. This is a great find. The guys legislating against Wilt are stepping forward. This and top of the backboard are things that nobody since Wilt can claim. This is major slap in the face to those who say since guys today can't do it... so it can't be done.

I'm sure the 550 bench press can be gotten from the Terminator as well. A Mr Universe that was actively on steroids never admits that another guy is the strongest in the world, especially when the guy comes from a sport not known for strength building.

[senelcoolidge]

Wilt was the F'ing man. We need to find more footage. The guy was so ahead of his time it was scary. This guy would dominate in any era. Love that no look bump pass when he drew two defenders.

[305Baller]

Wilt, himself claimed that he accomplished that feat quite often. BUT, because there was no video footage of, the handful of "anti-Wilt" posters here naturally dismissed it. NOW, we have TEX WINTER confirming that fact.

SONNY HILL claimed that he witnessed Wilt touching the top of the backboard. The "Wilt-haters" dismissed it. It was impossible. No one else has done it. Not even James White. YET, we now have video footage of Chamberlain, while at KU, with his hand very near the top of the backboard...in a jump in which he goes straight up, and without benefit of a running start. We also have FOOTAGE of a 34 year old Wilt, at 300+ lbs., and only a year removed from major knee surgery, ...again, going straight up, with no running start, and his hand reaches above the square, or nearly 12 ft.

Of course, the "Wilt-bashers" will say...see, he couldn't do it.

Which gets me to my point on the 6-6 Gus Johnson, who some have claimed could touch the top of the backboard. We obviously don't have the VIDEO FOOTAGE, but here is what we do KNOW. He made a straight up leap, and touched a nail at the 11' 6" mark. On the surface, that doesn't seem so incredible. After all, we have had NBA players touch the 12' 6" mark.

HOWEVER, it took all that the 6-4 Joey Johnson could do, to equal that mark. So what you ask...or as Millwad chimed in with this:



I bet Millwad never saw Joey Johnson play, even though he was dunking on 11'-7" baskets back in the 90's. Or that he had a measured vertical of 52".

http://tucsoncitizen.com/wildaboutazcats/2010/07/25/johnsons-potential-literally-through-the-roof/



Think about that. Joey Johnson with his head easily above the rim, had a difficult time, in 1988, touching the same nail that Gus Johnson touched in 1963.

And, that again brings us back to Wilt. We KNOW that with a standing leap, Wilt could nearly touch 13 ft. If Johnson's standing leap could only go slightly above 11' 6", just how high would a Wilt, with a running start, have topped out at?

At least we can finally put an end to the idiotic "anti-Wilt" clan continually denying what so MANY have claimed in the last 50+ years.

Incidently, as a sidenote about long-jumping...Bob Beamon jumped 29' 2" in 1968. That record stood until 1991, when Mike Powell jumped 29' 4"...which is STILL the record. So, in the last 40+ years, we have seen the long jump "jump" by a measely TWO INCHES. Kind of puts a different perspective on the athletes of the 60's and those of even today (who have all the advantages of modern technology.)


Which brings me to this guy...



Most rational Chamberlain posters, and I am certainly in that category, have claimed that Wilt was capable of around a 42" vertical leap, and a 500+ bench press. (The "non-rational" Wilt fans will point out that the internet is loaded with accounts of Wilt with a 50+ vertical, or 550-600 lb. bench press.) We will probably never see any kind of footage confirming Wilt's bench, but we have first hand accounts of him doing it. We also have articles as early as 1964 claiming he was benching 425 lbs, and an eye-witness account of him benching 465 at age 59. And the net is plastered with a TON of accounts of his incredible strength.

As for the vertical, we now HAVE the footage's which show his phenomenal leaping ability. Of course, he was a HIGH JUMP champion, and with horrible form, and doing it PART TIME. He was also a 7-2 man, with a measured 7-8 wingspan, that was a LONG JUMPER, and a TRIPLE JUMPER at KU (as well as a SPRINTER.) In Wilt's first book, there is also a photo of him, playing volleyball sometime in the late 60's or early 70's, in which his waist is above the top of the net. Sportswriter George Kiseda measured a Wilt vertical leap at 42." We have SONNY HILL and TEX WINTER backing up his own claims.

AND, as I have LONG maintained here...where are all of those that actually saw Chamberlain play, who would DISPUTE these staggering claims? Wilt played with HUNDREDS, if not THOUSANDS of different players in his career, and even after his NBA days. He was coached by SEVERAL coaches, and there were DOZENS of coaches who coached against him. He was followed by MANY members of the media. And his game was watched by perhaps MILLIONS of fans in his career. Where are those that would CHALLENGE the MANY astonishing physical feats that were attributed to Wilt? I have never read one LEGITIMATE eye-witness account that claimed that Wilt could not touch the top of the backboard, or bench 500 lbs.


There are the few that have scoffed at the idea that Wilt had a good outside shot. After all, he was a poor FT shooter (of course, Bruce Bowen won the 3pt title in a season in which he shot .404 from the line, too.) BUT, we had a HOF coach, and not one of Wilt's, who witnessed it.

And then, in the last few months, new VIDEO footage, as well as deleted old footage, has surfaced which CLEARLY shows Chamberlain hitting MANY shots from 12-15+ feet.

Hopefully one day, we will get some full games from perhaps a few of his 271 40+ point games, too.

In any case, one thing is becoming quite clear...it is getting worse-and-worse everyday, to be a "Wilt-basher."

I'm a believer!!

[kumquat]

His athleticism reminds me of David Robinson, he's no more athletic than him. People like to put Wilt up on a pedestal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIkTMOwJsto&feature=fvst

[305Baller]

His athleticism reminds me of David Robinson, he's no more athletic than him. People like to put Wilt up on a pedestal.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oIkTMOwJsto&feature=fvst

Wilt had a longer wingspan.
Anyways, did DROB have the skills to avg 50 against scrubs?

DROB did get 70 points once but maybe yes this is the closest comparison, but could DROB do behind-the-back passes in transition?

I don't think so.

[Pointguard]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0EpVZS26BUs

And yes, an OLD Wilt was outjumping a YOUNG Kareem.

And how about a 34 year old Wilt, at 300+ lbs, and on a surgically repaired knee...with a straight-up jump (no running start at all)...reaching the top of the square with his fingertips. Take a look at just past the 30:00 mark, and then they do a slow motion replay several times, including a couple just past the 31:00 mark.



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ipl5DeHnMVI

I don't get Wilt's incredible explosion. He routinely gets a similar height with this quick broad jump. And they weren't into stretching back then which adds about six inches to your quick jump and more explosion. Wilt rarely leaves his feet before the offender so his explosion is incredibly quick. His timing is also kind of eerie as he usually gets the ball just before the peak.

[305Baller]

I don't get Wilt's incredible explosion. He routinely gets a similar height with this quick broad jump. And they weren't into stretching back then which adds about six inches to your quick jump and more explosion. Wilt rarely leaves his feet before the defender so his explosion is incredibly quick. His timing is also kind of eerie as he usually gets the ball just before the peak.

could it be a fake? nahhh

[jlauber]

I don't get Wilt's incredible explosion. He routinely gets a similar height with this quick broad jump. And they weren't into stretching back then which adds about six inches to your quick jump and more explosion. Wilt rarely leaves his feet before the defender so his explosion is incredibly quick. His timing is also kind of eerie as he usually gets the ball just before the peak.

And it is all so effortless, too. Even the mulitple blocks on Kareem when he was 35, over 300 lbs, and jumping on a surgically repaired knee.

I used to get a kick out those "non-believers" that would find a YouTube block by Chamberlain, and in it, they would claim that, "see, Wilt's head is not even at the rim." Of course, what was so laughable, was that here was Chamberlain easily flicking the ball out of the air, with virtually no effort. I guess they wanted Wilt to block the shot with his head, or perhaps his chest (or maybe even some other body part.)

[Raph12]

[QUOTE=Legends66NBA7]"There is a common belief that Wilt was so good because he played in an era where there was no competition or size to compete with Wilt. I am going to show that Wilt would dominate in today

[Legends66NBA7]

Of all the guys you just listed, only Lanier is close to Wilt's weight (275-300lbs), the next closest in weight was atleast 40lbs lighter.

This wasn't me who wrote all that.

[abuC]

And it is all so effortless, too. Even the mulitple blocks on Kareem when he was 35, over 300 lbs, and jumping on a surgically repaired knee.

I used to get a kick out those "non-believers" that would find a YouTube block by Chamberlain, and in it, they would claim that, "see, Wilt's head is not even at the rim." Of course, what was so laughable, was that here was Chamberlain easily flicking the ball out of the air, with virtually no effort. I guess they wanted Wilt to block the shot with his head, or perhaps his chest (or maybe even some other body part.)

Since when was Wilt "over 300lbs" in his playing career?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1321/806074491_b7a703dfd4.jpg

According to that, 327lbs was the heaviest he had ever been, he was noticeably bigger and that was long after he was retired and weight lifting for a movie.

When he was on the Lakers he didn't look heavier than Bynum, who isn't even 300lbs.

[Pointguard]

And it is all so effortless, too. Even the mulitple blocks on Kareem when he was 35, over 300 lbs, and jumping on a surgically repaired knee.


And what's really wild about those blocks is that Kareem's skyhook then, in the early 70's was less deliberate, more fluid off of his moves, and quicker on the release than the 80's skyhook. The later skyhook would have been timed a lot easier.

[PHILA]

Meriden Journal - Sep 6, 1963 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=CqxIAAAAIBAJ&sjid=xwANAAAAIBAJ&pg=3715,469887&dq)

http://i.imgur.com/9hHKU.png





http://i.imgur.com/F8ayu.png
http://i.imgur.com/7Nkzu.png
http://i.imgur.com/YRmNb.png




Below he slams over 6'9, 240 lb Zelmo Beaty.

http://i.imgur.com/eiEJD.jpg


Toldeo Blade - Nov 28, 1956 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=340UAAAAIBAJ&sjid=wAAEAAAAIBAJ&pg=7302,4611332&dq)

'It seems Wilt has an unorthodox method of shooting free throws. The big guy takes aim at the basket from several feet behind the line. Then he takes about three giant steps, leaves his feet before reaching the line, and stuffs the ball through the hoop.

Under the old rule, it was perfectly legal as Wilt never touched the floor before letting go of the ball. In addition his percentage was fantastic.

"Why, he would have had a free throw percentage of 100," said [Tex] Winter. "He never missed."

Incidentally the rules committee did not mention Chamberlain by name as a reason for the change. The rule change was made, according to the committee, "to prevent freak activity."'



The Miami News - Nov 7, 1962 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=1XYyAAAAIBAJ&sjid=2OkFAAAAIBAJ&pg=2229,2425147&dq)

'He can clean and jerk a 375-lb. weight, run the quarter mile in 47s, and high-jump over 6-11.'


Sports Illustrated - March 2, 1964 (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/vault/article/magazine/MAG1075691/2/index.htm)

'The St. Louis Hawks' 6-foot-9, 240-pound Zelmo Beaty, for example, found out recently that he can no longer take Chamberlain's great strength for granted. Unable to slow Wilt down with conventional maltreatment, Beaty tried to yank his shorts off. Chamberlain, who can press 400 pounds without breathing hard, makes it a point to control his temper, primarily because he is genuinely afraid he might kill somebody. Beaty's unethical yank, however, was too much. Wilt flicked an arm, and Beaty flew across the floor like a man shot out of a cannon. Referee Mendy Rudolph rushed over to him and said: "For God's sake, stay down, man. Don't even twitch a muscle." Beaty didn't twitch, and he is still active in the NBA.'





The Evening Independent - Sep 15, 1966 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=_dkLAAAAIBAJ&sjid=QlcDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7163,2399606&dq)

'Chamberlain, like Brown, is a great athlete and seriously considered becoming a fighter a year and a half ago. Wilt and Jimmy have competed against each other in foot races and tests of strength.

"I'd rather fight Clay than Wilt," Brown said. "Chamberlain's too big and he's too strong, but I'm no fighter. I'm saving whatever fighting I've got to do for the Dirty Dozen."'



St. Petersburg Times - Feb 25, 1969 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=gPoNAAAAIBAJ&sjid=w3sDAAAAIBAJ&pg=7049,3815406&dq)

'Wilt Chamberlain is probably the first giant in history to be able to break 50 seconds in the 440, win a Big Eight high-jump title and be able to set a pick. In fact, he may not be a true giant. Medicine has taken the mystery out of gigantism. Most giants of the past were physical weaklings. Some were 90 percent legs. Wilt Chamberlain, by common consent, is the world's strongest man.'


He was even stronger during his later years in life.

http://i43.tinypic.com/11icsox.gif

http://i48.tinypic.com/mk9pts.jpg

http://i53.tinypic.com/25pqslt.jpg

http://i45.tinypic.com/2dqttet.jpg

The Evening Independent - Jan 6, 1967 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=TSMoAAAAIBAJ&sjid=S1cDAAAAIBAJ&pg=2229,911381&dq)

"I'd bet you $1,000 I could lift 1,000 pounds," the 76ers singular 7-1 center said, "I have. I've also hand-wrestled two men at the same time and beat them. And there's nothing I'd like to do better than play pro football."



Ocala Star-Banner - Sep 17, 1975 (http://news.google.com/newspapers?id=_R8TAAAAIBAJ&sjid=lAUEAAAAIBAJ&pg=6593,3084647&dq)

'As inconspicuously as possible for a 7-foot 1-inch impresario, Wilt Chamberlain stopped by the New York Knicks' office for a quick social hello and now he was waiting for an elevator that would take him upstairs to the Madison Square Garden arena floor. When the elevator doors opened, Wilt stepped back as two husky workmen struggled to wheel a heavily loaded dolly into the corridor. On the dolly there were 10 big cartons of envelopes. For perhaps a minute the workmen pushed and pulled, trying to get the wheels of the dolly across the uneven gap between the elevator and the floor, huffing and puffing, they finally dropped their hands in frustration. "You look," Wilt said, "like you need a little help," His massive arms unencumbered by a chocolate sleeveless shirt, he reached down, grabbed the rope attached to the dolly and lifted the load into the corridor as if it had been a baby in a stroller. The workmen stared and thanked him. Wilt smiled, entered the elevator and the doors closed.

"I never saw anything like that," one of the workmen said. "These carton each weight about 80 pounds. This is an 800 pound load."

That's the approximate weight of four Knick teammates. And if Wilt were to join the Knicks for the approaching National Basketball Association season, he believes he could lift the team into contention with the Boston Celtics for the Atlantic Division title.'

[PHILA]

There was a tale from John Havlicek on a physical confrontation Chamberlain had with NFL player and part time professional wrestler Big Daddy Lipscomb in the early 60's. It ended with Lipscomb on the floor and Chamberlain muttering, "Nobody messes with Wilt". :applause:


http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2005/09/01/lipscomb.jpg

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Wrestling/2005/09/01/lipscomb365x445.jpg

[Deuce Bigalow]

^
Are you getting wet?

[305Baller]

^
Are you getting wet?


:facepalm

[Legends66NBA7]

^
Are you getting wet?

Take that crap to another thread.

[Deuce Bigalow]

Take that crap to another thread.

a 50+ man spreading his man juice about how "strong" Wilt is, is a little odd

[305Baller]

a 50+ man spreading his man juice about how "strong" Wilt is, is a little odd

He is spreading the legend.
You have sex thoughts. hahaa

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000983729/simpsons_haha_xlarge.jpeg

[305Baller]

Since when was Wilt "over 300lbs" in his playing career?

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1321/806074491_b7a703dfd4.jpg

According to that, 327lbs was the heaviest he had ever been, he was noticeably bigger and that was long after he was retired and weight lifting for a movie.

When he was on the Lakers he didn't look heavier than Bynum, who isn't even 300lbs.

this is a trip

[Legends66NBA7]

a 50+ man spreading his man juice about how "strong" Wilt is, is a little odd

I'm sure that's not what he's implying, so enough of the smart ass comments and close this thread if you feel uncomfortable about whatever it is you are viewing and assuming.

[jlauber]

this is a trip

Amazingly, Wilt was NOT 327 lbs during the filming of that movie, but was at only 255 lbs.

I won't take the time to look up that source, but I am reasonably certain that it was around 255.

[Legends66NBA7]

He is spreading the legend.
You have sex thoughts. hahaa

http://images.sodahead.com/polls/000983729/simpsons_haha_xlarge.jpeg

I think people just assume that we are all born at the same time and go through the same saying and definitions. Well it's not to be.

We are seeing the difference of a 50+ year old and another solid poster who, say they are homers or obsessed I don't care, trying to show something about legends I believe 99% of this board did not even see or were even born.

Then another poster, who must not even be an adult yet, who's posting some childish non-sense that is not only idiotic, brings up nothing to discussion about this thread. Weak, predictable, and very lame attempt at trolling.

Let's stick to the thread and if you don't want to contribute, please do us a favor and leave.

[305Baller]

I think people just assume that we are all born at the same time and go through the same saying and definitions. Well it's not to be.

We are seeing the difference of a 50+ year old and another solid poster who, say they are homers or obsessed I don't care, trying to show something about legends I believe 99% of this board did not even see or were even born.

Then another poster, who must not even be an adult yet, who's posting some childish non-sense that is not only idiotic, brings up nothing to discussion about this thread. Weak, predictable, and very lame attempt at trolling.

Let's stick to the thread and if you don't want to contribute, please do us a favor and leave.

well yeah, thats why he got the HAHAA

[Legends66NBA7]

well yeah, thats why he got the HAHAA

I concur:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rX7wtNOkuHo

[D-Wade316]

^
Are you getting wet?
Where's the rebuttal?

[jlauber]

I think people just assume that we are all born at the same time and go through the same saying and definitions. Well it's not to be.

We are seeing the difference of a 50+ year old and another solid poster who, say they are homers or obsessed I don't care, trying to show something about legends I believe 99% of this board did not even see or were even born.

Then another poster, who must not even be an adult yet, who's posting some childish non-sense that is not only idiotic, brings up nothing to discussion about this thread. Weak, predictable, and very lame attempt at trolling.

Let's stick to the thread and if you don't want to contribute, please do us a favor and leave.

And when he attempts to contribute something related to basketball, it is something along the lines that when Chamberlain went 1-11 in game seven of the '70 Finals (which was over at halftime BTW, when NY led 69-42), that it cost him 3-4 rings.

Not sure what they are teaching in 3rd grade math anymore, but if he is any indication, the next generation is in even more trouble.

[RobertdeMeijer]

I think he'd be like David Robinson, a bit stronger, a bit less dexterious.

ShaqAttack makes a good point about defensive systems not being as refined as now. I wonder if Chamberlain could learn to adapt and use more of his strength then.

[Pointguard]

Amazingly, Wilt was NOT 327 lbs during the filming of that movie, but was at only 255 lbs.

I won't take the time to look up that source, but I am reasonably certain that it was around 255.

He was doing those 50 mile marathons at the time... but 255 might be bit low. Isn't that less than his college days?

[jlauber]

I think he'd be like David Robinson, a bit stronger, a bit less dexterious.

ShaqAttack makes a good point about defensive systems not being as refined as now. I wonder if Chamberlain could learn to adapt and use more of his strength then.

I won't take the time to repost my reply to these assertions, except to say that Wilt was not only SWARMED in his career, he was BRUTALIZED for much of it.

Only the uneducated would tell you otherwise.

[jlauber]

He was doing those 50 mile marathons at the time... but 255 might be bit low. Isn't that less than his college days?

I can't recall where I pulled that info from. Maybe from one of Wilt's own books? In any case, he bulked up again. I won't take the time to pull up his and Russell's interview with Costas in the late 80's I believe, but in it, he was a MASSIVE man, and made Russell look extremely frail in comparison. I suspect that even in his 50's he was around 300 lbs. Once again, there is an eyewitness interview in which he was seen benching 465 lbs., and at age 59.

[32Dayz]

http://farm2.static.flickr.com/1321/806074491_b7a703dfd4.jpg


Imagine having to fight all 3 of those guys at once.

:eek:

[Pointguard]

I think he'd be like David Robinson, a bit stronger, a bit less dexterious.

ShaqAttack makes a good point about defensive systems not being as refined as now. I wonder if Chamberlain could learn to adapt and use more of his strength then.
Wilt was a natural scorer, he would have adapted. I use the Adrian Dantley/Charles Barkley comparison. Dantley was a natural scorer. In his prime he would have outscored Barkley eight times out of ten despite being smaller, slower, less athletic, less handle, less range, less explosion, less power, less quickness. He was just natural at scoring. Wilt was the same way.

And you have to factor in they didn't have the same practice facilities and rarely had practice time. Wilt also would have benefited from a lot of modern technology as well. We would have been a quicker and higher leaper as well. He would also have more moves.

He had a touch like Duncan and power like few others. The refs worked against him then, it would be different now. He would be allowed to hop, skip, plow over players, take extra steps with his long legs?

[Pointguard]

Imagine having to fight all 3 of those guys at once.

:eek:
I would change my imagination!

[PHILA]

I think he'd be like David Robinson, a bit strongerIndeed I can't imagine Stockton taking Wilt down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcGk-TjlHwc#t=37s


Below we can see little Johnny Egan's flinch in reaction to Wilt's frustration with the foul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE-eFAnHP6Y#t=4m (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE-eFAnHP6Y#t=4m)

[PTB Fan]

Indeed I can't imagine Stockton taking Wilt down.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mcGk-TjlHwc#t=37s


Below we can see little Johnny Egan's flinch in reaction to Wilt's frustration with the foul.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE-eFAnHP6Y#t=4m (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GE-eFAnHP6Y#t=4m)

David Robinson was way too nice for his own good. Even nicer than Wilt and he rarely was aggressive.

Still, Wilt would be like David Robinson but with more finesse, stronger, less athletic, more aggressive and better overall.

And yes, Wilt would be a dominant force these days. His game would translate well in any era.

[Psileas]

Amazingly, Wilt was NOT 327 lbs during the filming of that movie, but was at only 255 lbs.

I won't take the time to look up that source, but I am reasonably certain that it was around 255.

I definitely don't believe he was only 255 during the movie - and that he had ever been that low after his rookie season. I've watched him act there and he appears about as big as he was with the Lakers. If Arnold was 235, there's no way Wilt was only 20 lbs heavier.

BTW, I find the "Wilt has never appeared as heavy as he is" phrase to be a bit unclear. It may mean that he was seemingly at an all-time high or that his weight was misleading, although the tense used leads more to the first explanation.

[La Frescobaldi]

is there a way to block a user? I'm real new on this board but i already don't care for anything from deuce bigelow

[Legends66NBA7]

is there a way to block a user? I'm real new on this board but i already don't care for anything from deuce bigelow

Go to your the Top your screen, then press "User CP".

You will be in your "Control Panel". Go down to "Miscellaneous". They will be a "Buddy/Ignore" List. Then, you can type which ever user you wish on the "Ignore" List and you won't their posts anymore.

Or to make it more simple. Click on the user name. Then there will be an option to "Add _____ to your ignore list" option. There will be a confirmation to ask to "Add _____ to your ignore list" and you click the button submit.

[abuC]

Amazingly, Wilt was NOT 327 lbs during the filming of that movie, but was at only 255 lbs.

I won't take the time to look up that source, but I am reasonably certain that it was around 255.


:roll: :roll:


No, he was 327lbs for the movie, there's a source claiming to have measured and weighed him right there in print. Yet, you're saying he was only 255lbs even though it's obvious to the naked eye that he was bigger for that movie than he was during his playing days.

You exaggerate and spread so much misinformation about Wilt it's crazy, at no point was he "over 300lbs" during his playing career. You have no source, to even back up the ridiculous claim that he was 255lbs for the movie either.

[millwad]

:roll: :roll:


No, he was 327lbs for the movie, there's a source claiming to have measured and weighed him right there in print. Yet, you're saying he was only 255lbs even though it's obvious to the naked eye that he was bigger for that movie than he was during his playing days.

You exaggerate and spread so much misinformation about Wilt it's crazy, at no point was he "over 300lbs" during his playing career. You have no source, to even back up the ridiculous claim that he was 255lbs for the movie either.

This is what Jlauber has been up to, spreading misinformation like crazy and whenever he can't prove his nonsense he goes, "MY GOD, why can't you prove me wrong then?"....:facepalm

[Disaprine]

its pretty obvious wilt would dominate this era.

:roll:

JK
:roll: did alpha really draw that? :roll:

[Deuce Bigalow]

its pretty obvious wilt would dominate this era.

:roll: did alpha really draw that? :roll:

yeah :oldlol:

[jlauber]

:roll: :roll:


No, he was 327lbs for the movie, there's a source claiming to have measured and weighed him right there in print. Yet, you're saying he was only 255lbs even though it's obvious to the naked eye that he was bigger for that movie than he was during his playing days.

You exaggerate and spread so much misinformation about Wilt it's crazy, at no point was he "over 300lbs" during his playing career. You have no source, to even back up the ridiculous claim that he was 255lbs for the movie either.

First of all, I could not care less what Wilt weighed in that movie, which took place long after he retired.

I only brought that relatively insignificant point because I remember reading somewhere, that Chamberlain was down to 255 for that film. And you are right, I can't find that source...at least right now. Nor will I waste my time finding it either. If that article claims that Wilt weighted 327 lbs, ... great. In any case, it has absolutely no bearing on anything that Chamberlain accomplished in his career.

NOW, as for "no source" claiming that Wilt was over 300 lbs in his playing days...

PHILA posted this...

and bear in mind that this was in the mid-60's, long before Chamberlain bulked up to OVER 300 lbs later in his career...

http://insidehoops.com/forum/showthread.php?t=229933&page=3


Hannum is here, preparing his Warriors, including Wilt, for the 63-64 campaign, following last year's disastous start in San Francisco. He has Chamberlain working like a rookie. Wilt, driving a black-long Bentley ($20,000), in keeping with his $62,000 per year salary, reported into camp weighing 315 lbs.

Then there was this...


http://www.tumblr.com/tagged/50_greatest_players_in_nba_history


The 7 foot 1 inch Chamberlain weighed 250 pounds as a rookie before bulking up to 275 pounds and eventually over 300 pounds and eventually over 300 pounds with the Lakers


http://books.google.com/books?id=I0ryRhVdRzgC&pg=PA81&lpg=PA81&dq=wilt+chamberlain+weight+at+300+lbs&source=bl&ots=wjDfuyOgRr&sig=x5bn20_onP05hunPsS93A-y3IKI&hl=en&ei=hbvdTuzsHsWdiALtjPGpCA&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=5&sqi=2&ved=0CDcQ6AEwBA#v=onepage&q&f=false


In fact, nobody was "larger" than Wilt in so many ways. He stood 7-1 tall, and at times in his career, his weight exceeded 300 lbs.

And I found this article particularly interesting, involving a Chamberlain, at age 61, and shortly before he died...

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2010/writers/joe_posnanski/03/02/wilt.chamberlain/index.html


And the striking thing to me was a small thing. It happened when Chamberlain shook hands with the Kansas players. One of those players was senior center Eric Chenowith. Now, Chenowith was listed at 7-foot-1, the same height as Chamberlain in his playing days. Chenowith probably weighed about 270 pounds, about the same weight as Chamberlain in his playing days. Chenowith was wearing his uniform, his basketball shoes and he was young. Chamberlain wore that red and gold jacket, black pants, a baseball cap and he was 61.

And, as they shook hands it was clear: Chamberlain was a much, much, much larger man.



I could go on and on...there was no question that Chamberlain played at over 300 lbs at times in his career.

So, please, don't preach to me about what YOU know about Chamberlain. Perhaps you have more knowledge regarding Wilt than myself, but if you do, you certainly haven't shown it on this forum.



This is what Jlauber has been up to, spreading misinformation like crazy and whenever he can't prove his nonsense he goes, "MY GOD, why can't you prove me wrong then?"....

I find this quote truly laughable. I continually shred virtually every argument you bring into these Wilt "discussions" to shreds. Hell, in this topic alone I caught you in yet another lie regarding Joey Johnson.

And you consider yourself some kind of "expert" on Hakeem's career, and yet you claimed that he did NOT guard an OLD Kareem in the '85 and '86 seasons, when Kareem was routinely carpet-bombing him with 40+ point games. But, after I caught you in yet another lie, we now know that you NEVER watched any of those games.

But, you can take a small victory in my posting that Wilt weighed 255 lbs in that movie if you like. Again, I am not going to waste my time finding my source, because I simply don't care if he weighed 327 or 255 lbs. We do know that the man was MASSIVE in his NBA career, and long afterwards. And many sources claim he was the strongest man to have ever played the game. And even Howard Cosell claimed that he may have been among the strongest athletes in the WORLD in his pre-fight interview with him and Ali in the late 60's.

And you are among the tiny handful of posters here who goes out of his way in a feeble attempt to disparage Wilt's career. And, as I have pointed out,...as more-and-more video footage comes out, the worse it will be for the "Wilt-bashers" like yourself.

You were among those that claimed that Wilt did not block 15 of Kareem's sky hooks in the '72 WCF's. I provided links that proved he blocked 15 of Kareem's shots in just THREE of the six games (and another link which added another six more blocks in another game earlier in their career H2H's.) Then, I provided a YouTube link in which he swatted TWO of them in a matter of SECONDS. Yet, you couldn't provide anything to the contrary.

You challenged my take that Wilt had a good outside game early in his career. I not only provided a link in which a HOF coach confirmed it, I also provided YouTube VIDEO footage in which he was hitting SEVERAL shots, in ONE game alone, from 12-15+ feet (and a JUMP SHOT from about 16 ft.)

You were among those that claimed that Wilt's vertical was over-rated. Then, in the last few weeks, we now have TWO VIDEOS, one in which a 34 year old Wilt, at 300+ lbs (yes abuC), and on a surgically repaired knee, goes straight up, and his fingertips are above the square. And, in the second video, Wilt again, goes straight up, and his fingertips are near the top of the BACKBOARD. Again, without benefit of a running start. Hell, Joey Johnson, with a DOCUMENTED 52" vertical, (and KNOWN to have his CHIN above the rim..,.which YOU challenged and as always, failed), could barely reach 11' 6" with a straight up vertical.

You were among those idiotic posters who challenged the WELL-KNOWN fact that Wilt could dunk the ball with a leap starting just inside the top of the FT circle. Well, we now have the FIRST-HAND account from none other than Tex Winter, who claims that Wilt DID accomplish that feat (which led to the BANNING of dunking FTs.)

You challenged my take that Wilt faced TALL players in his career. I posted a list with MANY 6-11+ players, most all of whom would be 7-0+ with TODAY's measurements.

The list goes on-and-on. BTW, I never personally claimed that Wilt was a "world-class" volleyball player, BUT, I did provide SOURCES which claimed he was. Here again, whether he was, or not, he IS in the Volleyall HOF. And even if he wasn't a "world-class" volleyballer, why would you really care?

YOU also challenged the post in which Wilt broke Johnny Kerr's toe with a dunk. Did it really happen? I don't know...you will have to take it up with Kerr, who made that claim HIMSELF (and it NEVER came from Wilt BTW.)

You made the RIDICULOUS comment that Wilt did not face the double-teams that Shaq and Hakeem (BTW, Hakeem???) did. I provided MULTIPLE sources, including TWO Boston players alone, which claimed that they USED a TEAM concept in an attempt to curtail Wilt's domination. There is even an interview with BOTH Wilt and Russell, in which Chamberlain made the comment that it was seldom just Russell guarding him, but that Russell had help. And Russell was sitting right next to him when he made that comment...and yet, he didn't challenge it. And MULTIPLE sources which claimed that Chamberlain was not only SWARMED, but BRUTALIZED in his career. And yes, even in the LIMITED footage that we have, I have SHOWN that Wilt was indeed doubled, tripled, and even swarmed repeatedly. Once again, MULTIPLE FIRST-HAND accounts that Wilt was constantly doubled throughout his career.

And you have even claimed that Wilt would be no better than Andrew Bynum, forcryingoutloud. MY GOD...Bynum as good as Wilt??? Chamberlain was taller, bigger, longer, stronger, faster, way more athletic, and FAR more skilled. A 40+ year old Wilt would have dominated that clod.

But, here again, why would you even bother? We have MANY EYE-WITNESS accounts of Wilt's staggering physical feats, and yet, we have virtually NO LEGITIMATE sources which have DISPUTED them. How come? Do you honestly believe you know more than those that actually SAW them?

[Asukal]

Gawd damn why do I always get caught in jlauber's first few sentences then as I scroll down I realize I'm reading a gawd damn book. I won't fall for that again jlauber you sneaky basterd! :no:

[millwad]

And you consider yourself some kind of "expert" on Hakeem's career, and yet you claimed that he did NOT guard an OLD Kareem in the '85 and '86 seasons, when Kareem was routinely carpet-bombing him with 40+ point games. But, after I caught you in yet another lie, we now know that you NEVER watched any of those games.

I'm not an expert when it comes to Hakeem's career, I have a life unlike you and your lonely ass. And I couldn't care less about rookie Akeem and we all know Olajuwon took a dump on Kareem and the Lakers in the playoffs of '86..





You were among those that claimed that Wilt did not block 15 of Kareem's sky hooks in the '72 WCF's. I provided links that proved he blocked 15 of Kareem's shots in just THREE of the six games (and another link which added another six more blocks in another game earlier in their career H2H's.) Then, I provided a YouTube link in which he swatted TWO of them in a matter of SECONDS. Yet, you couldn't provide anything to the contrary.

He didn't, you didn't prove shit. Not even your own source could confirm your nonsense so you got owned by your own source, you clown. Your assumptions ain't equal to the truth, you old fart.




You challenged my take that Wilt had a good outside game early in his career. I not only provided a link in which a HOF coach confirmed it, I also provided YouTube VIDEO footage in which he was hitting SEVERAL shots, in ONE game alone, from 12-15+ feet (and a JUMP SHOT from about 16 ft.)

He didn't, and quotes doesn't mean shit which we've seen thousand times on this forum. And the footage of Wilt shooting are in highlights, Chris Mihm looks even better than Wilt in highlight videos when it comes to shooting, doesn't mean he was a good shooter, you clown.





You were among those that claimed that Wilt's vertical was over-rated. Then, in the last few weeks, we now have TWO VIDEOS, one in which a 34 year old Wilt, at 300+ lbs (yes abuC), and on a surgically repaired knee, goes straight up, and his fingertips are above the square. And, in the second video, Wilt again, goes straight up, and his fingertips are near the top of the BACKBOARD. Again, without benefit of a running start. Hell, Joey Johnson, with a DOCUMENTED 52" vertical, (and KNOWN to have his CHIN above the rim..,.which YOU challenged and as always, failed), could barely reach 11' 6" with a straight up vertical.

Still overrated, Wilt himself claimed he had a 50 inch vertical, haha.. And that video is horrible, the angle is pure fail if you want to make a point regarding how high he could jump. And I couldn't care less about Joey Johnson, and I don't trust quotes by bar owners anyway.





You were among those idiotic posters who challenged the WELL-KNOWN fact that Wilt could dunk the ball with a leap starting just inside the top of the FT circle. Well, we now have the FIRST-HAND account from none other than Tex Winter, who claims that Wilt DID accomplish that feat (which led to the BANNING of dunking FTs.)

He couldn't, I couldn't care less about quotes, that's not physically possible. Just because someone claims he did it doesn't mean it's the truth, you idiot. Just like Wilt claiming that he would score 70 ppg in the 90's or that he slept with 20 000 women or that the he had a 50 inch vertical..:facepalm




You challenged my take that Wilt faced TALL players in his career. I posted a list with MANY 6-11+ players, most all of whom would be 7-0+ with TODAY's measurements.

You were so lame, you even posted a bunch of guys he never even faced a la ABA players and players who never even were in the league at the same time as Wilt. Who does that really? So retarded..:facepalm




The list goes on-and-on. BTW, I never personally claimed that Wilt was a "world-class" volleyball player, BUT, I did provide SOURCES which claimed he was. Here again, whether he was, or not, he IS in the Volleyall HOF. And even if he wasn't a "world-class" volleyballer, why would you really care?

If I recall correctly he is in the volleyball HOF as a contributor, not a player. And it's not the worldwide HOF, it's the weak american. And even if he would be in the HOF as a player it still would be a joke since the guy only played on a mixed women and male team for one year..:facepalm




YOU also challenged the post in which Wilt broke Johnny Kerr's toe with a dunk. Did it really happen? I don't know...you will have to take it up with Kerr, who made that claim HIMSELF (and it NEVER came from Wilt BTW.)

Yeah, I still do. It's the biggest load of crap I've ever read. If you'd know physics you'd also know that bones don't get crushed by a basketball landing on it, you clown. And Wilt couldn't even tear a rim down like Gus Johnson did..




You made the RIDICULOUS comment that Wilt did not face the double-teams that Shaq and Hakeem (BTW, Hakeem???) did. I provided MULTIPLE sources, including TWO Boston players alone, which claimed that they USED a TEAM concept in an attempt to curtail Wilt's domination. There is even an interview with BOTH Wilt and Russell, in which Chamberlain made the comment that it was seldom just Russell guarding him, but that Russell had help. And Russell was sitting right next to him when he made that comment...and yet, he didn't challenge it. And MULTIPLE sources which claimed that Chamberlain was not only SWARMED, but BRUTALIZED in his career. And yes, even in the LIMITED footage that we have, I have SHOWN that Wilt was indeed doubled, tripled, and even swarmed repeatedly. Once again, MULTIPLE FIRST-HAND accounts that Wilt was constantly doubled throughout his career.

He faced way less double-teams than Shaq and Hakeem, you clown. And defensive schemes were a joke back then.




But, here again, why would you even bother? We have MANY EYE-WITNESS accounts of Wilt's staggering physical feats, and yet, we have virtually NO LEGITIMATE sources which have DISPUTED them. How come? Do you honestly believe you know more than those that actually SAW them?

Because many of them are a load of crap..:facepalm
And it doesn't help that you exaggerate and misnform people constantly a la the list you tried to put up of bigs Wilt faced, you even mentioned players who never played in the NBA and players who wasn't in the league at the same time as Wilt and players who only played in the ABA.

How can a self-proclaimed Wilt historian do something as lame as that?

[Deuce Bigalow]

50" vertical
beat up a mountain lion
20,000 women
can lift 1,000 pounds
dunked from the freethrow line when awarded freethrows

[D-Wade316]

50" vertical
beat up a mountain lion
20,000 women
can lift 1,000 pounds
dunked from the freethrow line when awarded freethrows

^
Are you getting wet?
:facepalm

[Asukal]

50" vertical
beat up a mountain lion
20,000 women
can lift 1,000 pounds
dunked from the freethrow line when awarded freethrows

:roll: :roll: :roll:

They say love is blind, jlauber.

[madmax]

jlauber's and millwad's intimate conversations are always welcome when you need something to lighten up your day:lol :D :cheers:

[Deuce Bigalow]

:facepalm

:oldlol:
:facepalm

[rodman91]

50" vertical
beat up a mountain lion
20,000 women
can lift 1,000 pounds
dunked from the freethrow line when awarded freethrows

Also he would have 75 ppg in modern basketball.

...and take down Muhammad Ali in boxing ring.

[ThaRegul8r]

jlauber's and millwad's intimate conversations are always welcome when you need something to lighten up your day:lol :D :cheers:

My day isn't generally lightened up by ceaseless, pointless stupidity.

[La Frescobaldi]

February 2, 1969; Detroit at Philadelphia
Detroit Pistons . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 28 25 33 35 - 121
Philadelphia 76ers . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . . 30 36 36 29 - 131
DETROIT Min. FGM FGA FTM FTA Reb. Asst. PF Pts.
Dave DeBusschere 34 5 10 0 2 10 2 5 10
Terry Dischinger 13 3 6 0 0 4 1 0 6
Joe Strawder 42 3 10 2 2 10 3 5 8
Dave Bing 44 14 30 2 2 8 11 1 30
Eddie Miles 32 13 20 8 8 5 2 2 34
Len Chappell 21 4 8 1 1 8 0 3 9
Sonny Dove 1 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0
Jim Fox 6 0 0 0 0 0 0 1 0
Happy Hairston 27 5 12 5 9 7 1 2 15
Jimmy Walker 20 4 8 1 2 1 6 3 9
Totals 240 51 104 19 26 57 26 22 121

PHILADELPHIA Min. FGM FGA FTM FTA Reb. Asst. PF Pts.
Luke Jackson 28 4 10 0 0 8 1 4 8
Chet Walker 29 8 17 3 5 4 1 3 19
Wilt Chamberlain 48 9 13 4 12 25 21 0 22
Hal Greer 41 11 19 1 3 9 4 3 23
Wally Jones 24 4 11 2 2 2 2 1 10
Billy Cunningham 27 8 14 4 6 2 6 4 20
Johnny Green 12 4 6 0 1 3 2 0 8
Matt Guokas 17 4 4 2 2 2 2 2 10
Bill Melchionni 14 5 9 1 1 2 1 3 11
Totals 240 57 103 17 32 64 40 20 131

[jongib369]

http://www.itusozluk.com/image/wilt-chamberlain_100669.jpg