"Lebron is mentally weak, not clutch"... really?

[pauk]

im shocked to see even ONE human being on earth say Lebron has NOT SHOWN MENTAL TOUGHNESS / CLUTCHNESS..... after all Lebron has done.... yet i see a couple actully say that here on ISH! haha... alrighty then......

so yea... enough is enough... its time to remind these haters of the facts they desperately try to avoid.... lets go:

1st of all, since 2003, Lebron has accumulated the most gamewinners (http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm)...

Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Lebron-GameWinners.jpg

2nd of all, Lebron has been at the top in Clutch stats (http://82games.com/index.htm) since these Clutch stats (http://82games.com/index.htm) were first started to be recorded...

"For these stats "Clutch" is defined as:

4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points"

2010-11
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2011-clutch-stats.jpg

2009-10
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2010-clutch-stats.jpg

2008-09
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2009-clutch-stats.jpg

2007-08
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2008-clutch-stats.jpg



NOW.... LETS PROCEED TO SOME PLAYOFFS CLUTCH HIGHLIGHTS SHALL WE?

LEBRON 2011 FINALS GAME 1 VS MAVS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hofAKcqBgc

LEBRON 2011 PLAYOFF CLUTCH PLAYS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eDjYYO-rAw

LEBRON CLOSING THE CELTICS SERIES 2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Rd7vd9Dl8

LEBRON TORCHING THE BULLS IN THE ECF 2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1Wp2hkGY_8

LEBRON PLAYOFF GAMEWINNERS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTGG6-W6S2Y

LEBRON VS PISTONS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-LHeUsLLy8

Lebron James GameWinners & Buzzerbeaters highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU2N0q6iSHk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ2DXJFH_hY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM4xrVBjwjM


and so on................................................ ...................


SO... BEFORE YOU HAVE THE COJONES TO ACTUALLY QUESTION LEBRONS MENTAL TOUGHNESS / CLUTCHNESS AGAIN......... REMEMBER... BY FACTS, YOU ARE ACTUALLY QUESTIONING THE MOST OVERALL PRODUCTIVE CLUTCH PLAYER IN THE NBA........... HE DOESNT JUST SCORE, HE REBOUNDS, PASSES AND GETS KEY DEFENSIVE STOPS IN THE CLUTCH AS YOU CAN SEE ABOVE.....

LEBRON IS HUMAN.... SO HE WILL FAIL IN THE CLUTCH.... BUT AS YOU CAN SEE UPSTAIRS... HE OVERALL PREVAILS ON THAT END MORE THAN ANYBODY..... SEASON OR PLAYOFFS.....

YES HE WAS NOT ABLE TO BE OVERALL A SUPERHERO AGAINST THE MAVS IN THE PLAYOFFS IN 3 GAMES...... BUT THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACTS OF LEBRON BEING THE MOST CLUTCH PLAYER.... NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WISH FOR IT....

[Jasi]

In b4 multiple gifs of LeRonzino bricking possible game-winners

[B]

When do we discuss pizza? I like to talk about pizza. All kinds of pizza, it's like sex, when it's good it's good when it's bad it's still pretty dam good

[NewYorkNoPicks]

no clutch is defined as game winning shots, or shots with other significant value (sending a game into overtime, etc).

LeBron James 29% in the clutch

Carmelo Anthony 48% in the clutch. <---- That is the most clutch player in the league, and is the man who has converted the most game winning shots in the entire league since 2003.

[Deuce Bigalow]

now do you understand that stats dont tell the whole story?
:lol

[ConanRulesNBC]

LeBron is mentally weak. He gave up in 2010 and 2011 in the playoffs when it mattered the most.

[chips93]

LeBron is mentally weak. He gave up in 2010 and 2011 in the playoffs when it mattered the most.

i cant believe people actually believe this :banghead:

like, so, you think, that lebron just thought to himself,''you know what, im gonna quit right here, because i hate winning, and i love being hated on by the public''

or, is it possible, that the mavs just played great d, and lebron, to an extent choked?

[yeboah159]

pauk.... stfu. this post is just as useful as all ur posts combined.

[RRR3]

i cant believe people actually believe this :banghead:

like, so, you think, that lebron just thought to himself,''you know what, im gonna quit right here, because i hate winning, and i love being hated on by the public''

or, is it possible, that the mavs just played great d, and lebron, to an extent choked?

Nope! LeBron is an evil ninja determined to bring down the NBA by giving up and sparking endless debates about whether he quit or not! It's all part of his evil master plan to take over the world and create a new race of half-man/half-horse drones to conquer the universe!

[Phong]

Quit, choked or sucked.. it doesn't matter how you call it. LeBron was camping at the 3 point line and was being passive. The Mavs defense must have been amazing to make him stop trying.

[kaiiu]

sorry but I dont count gamewinning travels as clutch

[Doctor Rivers]

im shocked to see even ONE human being on earth say Lebron has NOT SHOWN MENTAL TOUGHNESS / CLUTCHNESS..... after all Lebron has done.... yet i see a couple actully say that here on ISH! haha... alrighty then......

so yea... enough is enough... its time to remind these haters of the facts they desperately try to avoid.... lets go:

1st of all, since 2003, Lebron has accumulated the most gamewinners (http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm)...

Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Lebron-GameWinners.jpg

2nd of all, Lebron has been at the top in Clutch stats (http://82games.com/index.htm) since these Clutch stats (http://82games.com/index.htm) were first started to be recorded...

"For these stats "Clutch" is defined as:

4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points"

2010-11
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2011-clutch-stats.jpg

2009-10
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2010-clutch-stats.jpg

2008-09
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2009-clutch-stats.jpg

2007-08
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2008-clutch-stats.jpg



NOW.... LETS PROCEED TO SOME PLAYOFFS CLUTCH HIGHLIGHTS SHALL WE?

LEBRON 2011 FINALS GAME 1 VS MAVS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hofAKcqBgc

LEBRON 2011 PLAYOFF CLUTCH PLAYS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eDjYYO-rAw

LEBRON CLOSING THE CELTICS SERIES 2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Rd7vd9Dl8

LEBRON TORCHING THE BULLS IN THE ECF 2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1Wp2hkGY_8

LEBRON PLAYOFF GAMEWINNERS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTGG6-W6S2Y

LEBRON VS PISTONS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-LHeUsLLy8

Lebron James GameWinners & Buzzerbeaters highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU2N0q6iSHk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ2DXJFH_hY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM4xrVBjwjM


and so on................................................ ...................


SO... BEFORE YOU HAVE THE COJONES TO ACTUALLY QUESTION LEBRONS MENTAL TOUGHNESS / CLUTCHNESS AGAIN......... REMEMBER... BY FACTS, YOU ARE ACTUALLY QUESTIONING THE MOST OVERALL PRODUCTIVE CLUTCH PLAYER IN THE NBA........... HE DOESNT JUST SCORE, HE REBOUNDS, PASSES AND GETS KEY DEFENSIVE STOPS IN THE CLUTCH AS YOU CAN SEE ABOVE.....

LEBRON IS HUMAN.... SO HE WILL FAIL IN THE CLUTCH.... BUT AS YOU CAN SEE UPSTAIRS... HE OVERALL PREVAILS ON THAT END MORE THAN ANYBODY..... SEASON OR PLAYOFFS.....

YES HE WAS NOT ABLE TO BE OVERALL A SUPERHERO AGAINST THE MAVS IN THE PLAYOFFS IN 3 GAMES...... BUT THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACTS OF LEBRON BEING THE MOST CLUTCH PLAYER.... NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WISH FOR IT....

Wade > LeBron

[DaPerceive]

LeBron is mentally weak. He gave up in 2010 and 2011 in the playoffs when it mattered the most.He probably did give up in 2010 but I doubt he gave up in 2011. If he did give up in 2011 that has to be the most selfish act that has ever happened in the history of the NBA.

[DMV2]

He probably did give up in 2010 but I doubt he gave up in 2011. If he did give up in 2011 that has to be the most selfish act that has ever happened in the history of the NBA.
He did gave up during the 2011 Finals.

[NBAller]

LeBron is mentally weak. He gave up in 2010 and 2011 in the playoffs when it mattered the most.


Ok. So when you get home from from (insert sport practice) and don't take a shower, you're for ever called a stink bum. this applies because it happend once, and now the nickname will stick with you forever.


hope that shows you how stupid calling him mentally weak is.

that example was off the top of my head, i think it was good.

[DMAVS41]

99% of the time Lebron is the best player in the game. He's been great late in games for the majority of his career.

But the problem is that 1% of the time he's awful.

-07 finals. I give him somewhat of a pass, but he was pretty bad overall. Definitely didn't play well enough to win. Some of the blame has to fall on him.

-Games 1,2, and 3 against the Celtics in 08. Just horrendous. Not only shot horribly....(11%, 25%, 31% respectively), but turned it over 19 times in those three games. Almost impossible to win a series with a star player putting up 3 stinkers like that in a series. Whats worse, is the the Cavs had game 1...if Lebron plays just bad and not horrible...they win game 1.

-The pivotal game against the Celtics in 10. Beyond belief. How can a team win if your star player does that in the pivotal game of the series? Its close to impossible. Stats don't even tell the whole story.

-NBA finals 11. Again, beyond belief how bad he was. If he just plays poorly and not historically bad...the Heat win rather easily. He was awful the first 45 minutes and then got even worse the last 3 minutes. It amounts to a historically poor performance and arguably the worst superstar performance of all time in the finals.

So think about Lebron's career so far. He didn't play well enough in the 07 finals to win the series. He didn't play well enough in the 08 Celtics series to win. He didn't play well enough in the 10 celtics series. And he didn't play well enough in the 11 finals to win.

Now, I am grading Lebron on a harsh curve. I'm comparing him to the likes of Shaq and Duncan and Hakeem. But that is who he deserves to be compared to quite honestly. And he's come up short because in some of the most important games of his career....he's been historically bad. You could find an excuse or reason for it all leading up to this year. Lebron had been saddled with average rosters at best and had consistently over-achieved with them...but there were still those WTF? moments. After the 11 Finals...its hard not to go back and question what the true issues were.

He has plenty of time to shed all of this and I bet/hope he does. But up to this point, its legit to question whether Lebron has the ability to play consistently well enough throughout an entire run to win.

[Miserio]

I really like Lebron, I've always liked Lebron but people like Pauk really make me sick... It's unbelievable how sad your life must be that you need to defend Lebron against anything anyone said about him. It's pathetic and you make Lebron look even worse.

[NBAller]

99% of the time Lebron is the best player in the game. He's been great late in games for the majority of his career.

But the problem is that 1% of the time he's awful.

.


and everyone that judges him based off that 1% are ****ing retards that probably weigh 300 lbs, never picked a bsketball up in their life. they're the people that decide to watch others play and talking shit instead of embarrassing themselves. getting pretty annoying.

[NBAller]

I really like Lebron, I've always liked Lebron but people like Pauk really make me sick... It's unbelievable how sad your life must be that you need to defend Lebron against anything anyone said about him. It's pathetic and you make Lebron look even worse.

actually what's pathetic is everyone who hates on lebron daily for dumb ass reasons.

[Miserio]

actually what's pathetic is everyone who hates on lebron daily for dumb ass reasons.
It's people having fun. Do you really think the lebron 'haters' don't respect Lebron as a player? We all know how good he is, they're just having fun.

[NBAller]

It's people having fun. Do you really think the lebron 'haters' don't respect Lebron as a player? We all know how good he is, they're just having fun.


at this point i think they believe so.

[RRR3]

at this point i think they believe so.
Some of the shit they say is just :facepalm :roll: :banghead: :hammerhead: :wtf: :no:
Like "Carmelo is better than LeBron"....uh.... how?

[Rooster]

If you want to know who's the best when it comes to clutch, watch the 2008 Olympic final when they were playing together and the game was close, who was the closer.

It ain't Lebron.

[chips93]

Nope! LeBron is an evil ninja determined to bring down the NBA by giving up and sparking endless debates about whether he quit or not! It's all part of his evil master plan to take over the world and create a new race of half-man/half-horse drones to conquer the universe!

:roll:

i knew that there was a reasonable explanation

[NBAller]

If you want to know who's the best when it comes to clutch, watch the 2008 Olympic final when they were playing together and the game was close, who was the closer.

It ain't Lebron.


you know...there's this word...it's called anticipation. if i was on defense during the final seconds of the game i would watch the "most clutch" or "best player on the other team" to get the final shot. if i was the offense, knowing this, i'd give the shot to somebody else too.

just saying.

[DMAVS41]

and everyone that judges him based off that 1% are ****ing retards that probably weigh 300 lbs, never picked a bsketball up in their life. they're the people that decide to watch others play and talking shit instead of embarrassing themselves. getting pretty annoying.

right. its not fair to judge him off that 1%...but its also not fair to just ignore it like his stans do and keep claiming:

"its just six games"
"its just 4 games"
"its just 3 games"
"its just 1 game"

Doesn't work like that. Legends make their name with what they do in the playoffs and when it matters most. I honestly don't care all that much what these guys do in the regular season playing one of about 15 terrible teams in the NBA on a nightly basis. I want to see what they do with their backs against the wall against great competition. So far Lebron has been way up and way down in that scenario. Way down the last two years.

Doesn't mean he's not already one of the best players ever depending on how you rank players. His level of play overall has been matched by very few players ever.

But those black marks matter. They are part of his body of work that make him the player he is. Like I said, he's the best 99% of the time...but is he truly the best player if that other 1% is so bad that it prevents you from winning? For now, I can't rank Lebron as the best player or as high as he should be all time because of the damage that 1% has done.

[Rooster]

you know...there's this word...it's called anticipation. if i was on defense during the final seconds of the game i would watch the "most clutch" or "best player on the other team" to get the final shot. if i was the offense, knowing this, i'd give the shot to somebody else too.

just saying.

Lebron was the best player on that team but he does not have the will when the pressure is high and the heart to take crucial shots on do or die situations. Kobe have both and that is why he got five and Lebrons is laying an egg. I do believe that Lebron is better than Kobe at this point bur greatness is measured on games that mattered the most.

[DMAVS41]

DMAVS41, Lebron is not the best player in hte league though, right? Or have you changed your mind?

I said I can't rank him as the best player in my post above for all the reasons I gave. He should be, but he just isn't.

[NBAller]

Lebron was the best player on that team but he does not have the will when the pressure is high and the heart to take crucial shots on do or die situations. Kobe have both and that is why he got five and Lebrons is laying an egg. I do believe that Lebron is better than Kobe at this point bur greatness is measured on games that mattered the most.

we all have our own opinions based on whatever. i'm not gonna sit here and try to explain how or why lebrons better.

[DMAVS41]

Lebron was the best player on that team but he does not have the will when the pressure is high and the heart to take crucial shots on do or die situations. Kobe have both and that is why he got five and Lebrons is laying an egg. I do believe that Lebron is better than Kobe at this point bur greatness is measured on games that mattered the most.

This doesn't need to be about Kobe, but Kobe has had more than his fair share of "let downs" in some of the most important games of his career.

The difference is that Kobe has also come through and led teams in a way that Lebron is yet to do really.

Although, Kobe is just a bad example. He's had some truly horrible performances as well and had the luxury of playing on teams that could overcome them.

[donald_trump]

being labelled clutch or unclutch is worth a lick.

chokers like rose were labelled clutch somehow, when guys like dirk over their whole career were labelled unclutch. you had durant who was labelled clutch for a while, then people came to their senses.

people today call magic johnson clutch. go back to when he was playing and he was "tragic johnson" in late game situations, and he deserved the title.
peoples perception is always skewed by the media and their own bias.

[Nick Young]

Lol Pauk flipped out and cracked, all you need to look at is game 5 of the celtics series to see how clutch and mentally tough Lebron is

[Rooster]

This doesn't need to be about Kobe, but Kobe has had more than his fair share of "let downs" in some of the most important games of his career.

The difference is that Kobe has also come through and led teams in a way that Lebron is yet to do really.

Although, Kobe is just a bad example. He's had some truly horrible performances as well and had the luxury of playing on teams that could overcome them.


Every player has failed before and has share of bad performance but at the end of the day, when you have FIVE ring in your fingers you must have done something remarkable in between to get to that point.

[DMAVS41]

Every player has failed before and has share of bad performance but at the end of the day, when you have FIVE ring in your fingers you must have done something remarkable in between to get to that point.

Exactly. So lets wait and let Lebron actually play on those teams capable of winning before you claim what you are.

Kobe had the luxury of playing on some teams throughout his career that were simply significantly better than anything Lebron had up until last year. Lets see what Lebron does playing on a true contender year in year out.

Because if Lebron wins 3 titles in the next 5 years....you'll have to backtrack on what you say. And again, lets not pretend like Lebron has been playing on loaded teams his entire career. Only last year did he have a team that could have and should have won.

[RRR3]

Every player has failed before and has share of bad performance but at the end of the day, when you have FIVE ring in your fingers you must have done something remarkable in between to get to that point.
Derek Fisher has done something remarkable? :lol

[ashlar]

Wade was destroying his sorry ass in $tat$. There was no way his ego would allow him to win the finals where he isn't MVP.

[Rooster]

Derek Fisher has done something remarkable? :lol

Actually Derek Fisher barely played in their first championship but he is an important player in those 4 title runs. Fish is not a great player but when it comes to pressure, he is one of those few players who can rise over the occasion. So to answer you, yes he's done something remarkable. He's not a remarkable player by any means but being important part of 4 title run is remarkable.

[Rooster]

Exactly. So lets wait and let Lebron actually play on those teams capable of winning before you claim what you are.

Kobe had the luxury of playing on some teams throughout his career that were simply significantly better than anything Lebron had up until last year. Lets see what Lebron does playing on a true contender year in year out.

Because if Lebron wins 3 titles in the next 5 years....you'll have to backtrack on what you say. And again, lets not pretend like Lebron has been playing on loaded teams his entire career. Only last year did he have a team that could have and should have won.

I'm still waiting. Your opinion is based on hypothetical scenario. We can't count on something that has not been done. If Lebron can prove me wrong. If he shows up on his biggest moments then that's a mark of true greatness.

[Indian guy]

You can't be mentally weak and then lead the league in late-game production for 3 straight seasons.

LeBron's general hesitancy and passive play in the clutch last season, something I talked about ALL of last season, has everything to do with diminished ability. His current style of play is not at all conducive to the creativity and top-level playmaking(not passing, but just making plays) that's required from a closer. That is why he's passive. For all his improvements as a jump shooter, he still doesn't like taking a bunch of jumpers in a close game. He prefers playing the high % game, and since he can't really do that anymore(especially against a set, late-game defense), he'd rather not have the ball.

[dynasty1978]

You can't be mentally weak and then lead the league in late-game production for 3 straight seasons.

LeBron's general hesitancy and passive play in the clutch last season, something I talked about ALL of last season, has everything to do with diminished ability. For all his improvements as a jump shooter, he still doesn't like taking a bunch of jumpers in a close game. He prefers playing the high % game, and since he can't really do that anymore(especially against a set, late-game defense), he'd rather not have the ball.

He was hesitant and passive vs. Boston in the 2010 playoffs as well, that can't be attributed to diminished ability? So what's the story there?

[Indian guy]

He was hesitant and passive vs. Boston in the 2010 playoffs as well

At the end of close games? Not really.

[LeFraud James]

You know how I know LeBron drives an automatic car?

Because he's got no clutch. :lol


On a side note, I doubt he has the mental capacity to actually know how to operate a car with a manual transmission. The idea alone of having to press the clutch while simultaneously shifting the knob would be too much for his petty brain.

[NBAller]

You know how I know LeBron drives an automatic car?

Because he's got no clutch. :lol

.


:sleeping :sleeping

[DevilsAssassin]

:bowdown: :bowdown:

[LeFraud James]

:sleeping :sleeping

Yeah, you mad. :lol

[RazorBaLade]

If you play bad in the biggest games of your career you are probably mentally weak. Not sure what the regular season clutch stats or anything has to do with choking on big stages but oh well.

i guess some people just think that a turnover in the first minute of the game is as important as throwing it out when you're down by 1 and theres 10 seconds left...... no big moments right...... only way you can think lebron is not mentally weak is to think that every competition is created equal and no game means more than another.

[NBAller]

Yeah, you mad. :lol

ya you got me. i'm mad at that horrible joke. try harder next time and i won't fall asleep mmmmmmmmmmmk?

[LeFraud James]

ya you got me. i'm mad at that horrible joke. try harder next time and i won't fall asleep mmmmmmmmmmmk?

You sure it was my joke that put you to sleep, or were you watching LeBron's highlights in the 4th quarter of the Finals again?

Don't like that one, eh. Well I got plenty more.

Would you happen to have change for a dollar?

I bumped into LeBron earlier and the n*gga only had three quarters.

:roll:

Get mad.

[NBAller]

You sure it was my joke that put you to sleep, or were you watching LeBron's highlights in the 4th quarter of the Finals again?

Don't like that one, eh. Well I got plenty more.

Would you happen to have change for a dollar?

I bumped into LeBron earlier and the n*gga only had three quarters.

:roll:

Get mad.

that joke is used as much as your mother is.


get out a paper and pencil.

edit:nvm. done posting irrelevant stuff here. sry

[Indian guy]

If you play bad in the biggest games of your career you are probably mentally weak. Not sure what the regular season clutch stats or anything has to do with choking on big stages but oh well.

i guess some people just think that a turnover in the first minute of the game is as important as throwing it out when you're down by 1 and theres 10 seconds left...... no big moments right...... only way you can think lebron is not mentally weak is to think that every competition is created equal and no game means more than another.

LeBron, statistically at least, is the #1 ranked clutch player in the playoffs from 04-10 too.

[LeFraud James]

that joke is used as much as your mother is.


get out a paper and pencil.

edit:nvm. done posting irrelevant stuff here. sry

You were the one :sleeping

Glad to see I woke you up.

Now lay down. :pimp:

[RazorBaLade]

LeBron, statistically at least, is the #1 ranked clutch player in the playoffs from 04-10 too.

the point is that mental toughness is very loosely defined.

i think you can play clutch for 47 minutes and you are wonderful the last 2 minutes of a tight game but then the last 30 seconds you make a foul and a turnover which to a viewer can only be described as choking and just being scared of the moment making dumb mistakes etc.

do the stats you refer to show those as well? Do they have a numerical value for running away from the ball? etc


you said statistically at least.. but it just implies much more than that. those stats dont show half the stats that make up clutchness

[Indian guy]

but then the last 30 seconds you make a foul and a turnover

This is an issue LeBron doesn't have. And his last-shot conversion rate is no different than the league average.

He's also tied for most GW in the playoffs since '04.


Do they have a numerical value for running away from the ball? etc

Considering he's the most productive clutch player in the league(not to mention Cleveland's great close-game record over the years), I'd say he's been doing the opposite of running away from the ball his career.

^ All pre-10-11, of course.

[DMAVS41]

the point is that mental toughness is very loosely defined.

i think you can play clutch for 47 minutes and you are wonderful the last 2 minutes of a tight game but then the last 30 seconds you make a foul and a turnover which to a viewer can only be described as choking and just being scared of the moment making dumb mistakes etc.

do the stats you refer to show those as well? Do they have a numerical value for running away from the ball? etc


you said statistically at least.. but it just implies much more than that. those stats dont show half the stats that make up clutchness

It depends on whether or not you think 10-11 lebron is a sign of things to come or an anomaly.

because lebron had pretty easily been the best late game player in the league both regular season and playoffs from 04 through 10.

[RazorBaLade]

This is an issue LeBron doesn't have. And his last-shot conversion rate is no different than the league average.



Considering he's the most productive clutch player in the league(not to mention Cleveland's great close-game record), I'd say he's been doing the opposite of running away from the ball his career.

^ All pre-10-11, of course.

so what about last year against boston? game 5 or w/e not sure what it was. do the stats have anything to describe what happened here?

the problem with the stats for clutch situations, imo, is that they only show up when you do good. if you run away from the ball, play passive and so on, you dont actually put stats up on the scoreboard.. So your average doesn't lower.

Player A made 1 gamewinner then never took any, passed up every single other shot or didn't have the ball or turned it over.. He's 100% on gw's. But player B that made 10/40 gamewinners, never backing down from the moment...

Stats wise player A wins. But how is Player B's mentality not much tougher, how is not more clutch and more stronger mentally?

[RazorBaLade]

It depends on whether or not you think 10-11 lebron is a sign of things to come or an anomaly.

because lebron had pretty easily been the best late game player in the league both regular season and playoffs from 04 through 10.

my previous post explains this exactly.... bron was easily the best late game player thats fine, whatever. but thats because the really important games that he was absolutely atrocious in, like vs boston for example, or against SA, or anything, he didnt really CONTRIBUTE anything to give us the full sample.

clutch stats only give us when the player chose to shoot, but not choosing to shoot can be a total choke and mental breakdown that never shows up anywhere.

BTW, i think bron vs boston was the first time i said hes a choker. it was just unreal. this time in 10-11 i dont view it as the anomaly, this was not the first time.

[LeFraud James]

It depends on whether or not you think 10-11 lebron is a sign of things to come or an anomaly.

because lebron had pretty easily been the best late game player in the league both regular season and playoffs from 04 through 10, which is clearly evidenced by the number of rings he has.

Fixed that for you.

[LeFraud James]

BTW, i think bron vs boston was the first time i said hes a choker. it was just unreal. this time in 10-11 i dont view it as the anomaly, this was not the first time.

Likewise.

I used to be enamored with his play late in tight games, but that series showed his true colors.

[RazorBaLade]

Likewise.

I used to be enamored with his play late in tight games, but that series showed his true colors.

Having you agree with me kind of weakens my argument so I'd prefer if you just kept on trolling and didn't bring me down.

no offense.

although this one seemed to be a geniune post from you finally.

[DMAVS41]

my previous post explains this exactly.... bron was easily the best late game player thats fine, whatever. but thats because the really important games that he was absolutely atrocious in, like vs boston for example, or against SA, or anything, he didnt really CONTRIBUTE anything to give us the full sample.

clutch stats only give us when the player chose to shoot, but not choosing to shoot can be a total choke and mental breakdown that never shows up anywhere.

BTW, i think bron vs boston was the first time i said hes a choker. it was just unreal. this time in 10-11 i dont view it as the anomaly, this was not the first time.

i agree, but its also hard to ignore how clutch he was against the celtics and bulls in the playoffs this year.

there is definitely something wrong with him in some of these pressure packed situations the last 2 years in the celtics series and finals....i totally agree

its just hard to completely ignore the simple fact that he dominated in the clutch in two series before the finals this year.

[RazorBaLade]

i agree, but its also hard to ignore how clutch he was against the celtics and bulls in the playoffs this year.

there is definitely something wrong with him in some of these pressure packed situations the last 2 years in the celtics series and finals....i totally agree

its just hard to completely ignore the simple fact that he dominated in the clutch in two series before the finals this year.

yeah clutch wise i agree but mental toughness is diff its supposed to be a constant. it isnt shooting, its just mentality. if you ever have a lapse, then you are not as tough mentally. the more lapses the more weak you know? its not something where you can just miss a clutch shot and make a clutch shot and youre still clutch. imo.

[Indian guy]

so what about last year against boston?

The series where he outproduced Kobe? Then did it again in '11?


do the stats have anything to describe what happened here?

They actually do. Stats clearly show that he played a sh!t game that night.


the problem with the stats for clutch situations, imo, is that they only show up when you do good. if you run away from the ball, play passive and so on, you dont actually put stats up on the scoreboard.. So your average doesn't lower.

You're rambling.

04-10 LeBron was the league's most productive clutch player and Cleveland sported a hell of a close-game record, so we don't have to worry about him running away from the ball or being passive. It's not really relevant here.

[NBAller]

Lebron is not the best player in the league, lets get this straight.

:rolleyes:

[RazorBaLade]

The series where he outproduced Kobe? Then did it again in '11?



They actually do. Stats clearly show that he played a sh!t game that night.



You're rambling.

04-10 LeBron was the league's most productive clutch player and Cleveland sported a hell of a close-game record, so we don't have to worry about him running away from the ball or being passive. It's not really relevant here.

if youre gonna ignore what he did vs boston last year then im not gonna argue with you.. disrespectful. why bring kobe into this? so retarded.

[chairman]

http://lundberg.me/wp-content/uploads/2011/05/lebron-crying1.jpg

[Fudge]

:oldlol:

[GS1905]

Lebron is mentally weak, a choker. He quits on his team. He is scared to play on the big stage. That's why he'll never be an all time great.

[dunksby]

pauk :lol

[ThatsGame]

Reasoning with trolls is pointless

[Phong]

LeBron should ask ESPN for another 1 hour special called The Objection in which he would tell people to disregard his Finals performances and numerous disappearing acts in the playoffs. Instead they should focus on those 82games.com tables and start to associate his name with words like greatness, clutch, winner and champion.

[Jan95]

****ing stat whores.

[oolalaa]

Why are there 2 threads on the exact same topic? hmmmmm :oldlol:


OK.

Lebron is now the most underrated clutch the player the league has ever seen. You only have yourselves to blame, Lebron haters.

Lebron has consistently produced in the 4th quarters of games, in the regular season and playoffs! He just has. You are either ignorant or you are trolling if you can't acknowledge this.

People now act like his performances in the 4th quarter of last years finals are the norm. This is ridiculous. He had a god damn mental breakdown! It's a joke that people say he sucks 'in the clutch' because of 1 SERIES.

Yes, the finals were completely inexcusable. I think the pressure and the scrutiny finally got to him (granted, he brought much of it on by himself). But, have you already forgotten what he did to Boston and Chicago in the previous rounds?? HE CLOSED THEM OUT.


I've watched Kobe (aka ONE OF THE MOST OVERRATED CLUTCH PERFORMERS IN NBA HISTORY) over the years repeatedly turn crunch time into a shot jacking, hero ball fest. He has failed in the clutch many, many, many, many times. He has single handily shot the Lakers out of many wins. NO ONE EVER SAYS ANYTHING

And what about Carmelo?? People actually think this guy is clutch Yes, he has hit a high percentage of game winners over his career (I think he has hit something like 19/40 if remember rightly), but in terms of producing in the 4th - certainly not better than Lebron. He has lost in the 1st round of the playoffs 7 times already!! How clutch could he really be?


Lebron can get a little tight down the stretch sometimes, and I wish he would be more aggressive - he doesn't really alter his play in crunch time. He still wants to distribute and set up his teammates - this can be good and bad.

But it's become insane.


And before you call me a Lebron Homer, or even a Kobe hater.....

- I am not a big Lebron fan. I think he is mentally weak. I'm not sure how competitive and driven he is. I don't think he's a great leader (great teammate sure, but not someone who will give an inspirational half time speech or someone that his teammates look up to for guidance. If i'm wrong about this, let me know). He doesn't always respond well to massive pressure.

- I love Kobe's desire. I love his psycho competitiveness. I love that he is consumed with basketball. He is at #9 on my all time list, and will probably end up higher.


Like the OP has said - Lebron' failures are blown to epic proportions. I suppose that comes with the territory of being the most scrutinised athlete the world has ever known :confusedshrug:

[no pun intended]

This is what I think.

Clutch shooting is overrated and overreacted about. Players are just shooting how they usually shoot and if they knock it down in the clutch, then most of it is due to pure luck.

[chairman]

Reasoning with trolls is pointless

http://i1206.photobucket.com/albums/bb460/ChairmanChris/Untitled.png

lebron sure does look like a troll
:applause:

[chairman]

Pauk:facepalm Lebron is mentally weak just face it

[Jasi]

This is what I think.

Clutch shooting is overrated and overreacted about. Players are just shooting how they usually shoot and if they knockek it down in the clutch, then most of it is due to pure luck.

lol

you never played basketball, did you? you know, with some referee and a shot-clock?

[Heavincent]

Since joining the Heat, Lebron has not been clutch at all. Only the most diehard Lebron stans (like pauk) would disagree.

[LA_Showtime]

Have you watched LeBron lately? I don't know what's his deal anymore. He used to be fine in big-game situations. These days he's forcing the issue or passing good looks off to guys like Juwan Howard.

[CavaliersFTW]

im shocked to see even ONE human being on earth say Lebron has NOT SHOWN MENTAL TOUGHNESS / CLUTCHNESS..... after all Lebron has done.... yet i see a couple actully say that here on ISH! haha... alrighty then......

so yea... enough is enough... its time to remind these haters of the facts they desperately try to avoid.... lets go:

1st of all, since 2003, Lebron has accumulated the most gamewinners (http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm)...

Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Lebron-GameWinners.jpg

2nd of all, Lebron has been at the top in Clutch stats (http://82games.com/index.htm) since these Clutch stats (http://82games.com/index.htm) were first started to be recorded...

"For these stats "Clutch" is defined as:

4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points"

2010-11
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2011-clutch-stats.jpg

2009-10
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2010-clutch-stats.jpg

2008-09
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2009-clutch-stats.jpg

2007-08
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2008-clutch-stats.jpg



NOW.... LETS PROCEED TO SOME PLAYOFFS CLUTCH HIGHLIGHTS SHALL WE?

LEBRON 2011 FINALS GAME 1 VS MAVS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hofAKcqBgc

LEBRON 2011 PLAYOFF CLUTCH PLAYS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eDjYYO-rAw

LEBRON CLOSING THE CELTICS SERIES 2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Rd7vd9Dl8

LEBRON TORCHING THE BULLS IN THE ECF 2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1Wp2hkGY_8

LEBRON PLAYOFF GAMEWINNERS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTGG6-W6S2Y

LEBRON VS PISTONS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-LHeUsLLy8

Lebron James GameWinners & Buzzerbeaters highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU2N0q6iSHk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ2DXJFH_hY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM4xrVBjwjM


and so on................................................ ...................


SO... BEFORE YOU HAVE THE COJONES TO ACTUALLY QUESTION LEBRONS MENTAL TOUGHNESS / CLUTCHNESS AGAIN......... REMEMBER... BY FACTS, YOU ARE ACTUALLY QUESTIONING THE MOST OVERALL PRODUCTIVE CLUTCH PLAYER IN THE NBA........... HE DOESNT JUST SCORE, HE REBOUNDS, PASSES AND GETS KEY DEFENSIVE STOPS IN THE CLUTCH AS YOU CAN SEE ABOVE.....

LEBRON IS HUMAN.... SO HE WILL FAIL IN THE CLUTCH.... BUT AS YOU CAN SEE UPSTAIRS... HE OVERALL PREVAILS ON THAT END MORE THAN ANYBODY..... SEASON OR PLAYOFFS.....

YES HE WAS NOT ABLE TO BE OVERALL A SUPERHERO AGAINST THE MAVS IN THE PLAYOFFS IN 3 GAMES...... BUT THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACTS OF LEBRON BEING THE MOST CLUTCH PLAYER.... NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WISH FOR IT....

So jacking up "clutch" shots in the regular season when your team is 66 and 16 means he's mentally strong and clutch all of the sudden? :roll:

Post his NBA ECF and NBA Finals series clinching "clutch" stats please :oldlol: Let's see how he does when the chips are actually down... Cuz how would I know if he's clutch or not w/o stats, I'm just a simple basketball fan from Cleveland who watched every single playoff game he ever played for 5 straight years :lol

I've never seen a superstar become more disconnected, unable to focus, and jittery during 4th quarter games that actually needed to be won. He's a choker. Front running in the regular season and early post-season against inferior teams is not being "clutch". Mental fortitude is needed only in the face of actual adversity. Adversity are the do or die scenarios - and in those scenarios Lebron does not deliver.

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

"Mental Toughness" and "Lebron" in the same sentence?
:biggums:

[pauk]

UPDATE (sorry Kobetards):


LeBron -
35.8 pts
40.0% fg
42.0% eFG
71.7% ft,
47.1% eFG when taking a midrange jumper with 0-15 seconds left on shotclock.
9 made out of 23 FG attempts per 48 minutes in clutch

http://www.82games.com/1112/11MIA8.HTM

Kobe -
32.2 pts
27.9% fg
29.5% eFG
71.4% ft
29.5% eFG when taking a midrange jumper with 0-15 seconds left on shotclock.
10 made out of 38 FG attempts per 48 minutes in clutch (shotjacker? no? ok..)


http://www.82games.com/1112/11LAL5.HTM#clutch

[pauk]

Something else to think about:

If Lebron is "mentally weak".... what does that make Kobe then? A MENTAL RETARD? Because Kobe has not been in any shape or form a better clutch player than Lebron.......... Season or Playoffs or ECF or Finals..................

[SwooshReturns]

LeBron has nothing in his chest, just like the cowardly lion from the Wizard of Oz.

We all know this ... you didn't need to make a thread about it.

[Oositdwn]

Something else to think about:

If Lebron is "mentally weak".... what does that make Kobe then? A MENTAL RETARD? Because Kobe has not been in any shape or form a better clutch player than Lebron.......... Season or Playoffs or ECF or Finals..................
A 5 time champion and back to back FMVP... :confusedshrug:

[pauk]

A 5 time champions and back to back FMVP... :confusedshrug:

aaaaaaaaaaaand team accomplishments and getting 3 rings handed to him on a silverplate has what to do with Clutch again? :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug:

[dunksby]

Something else to think about:

If Lebron is "mentally weak".... what does that make Kobe then? A MENTAL RETARD? Because Kobe has not been in any shape or form a better clutch player than Lebron.......... Season or Playoffs or ECF or Finals..................
:biggums: :coleman: :yaohappy: :crazysam: :milton :lebron:
http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i394/Swagengen/ec196c22.png :kobe:

Pretty much everyone disagrees with you.

[Heavincent]

Because Kobe has not been in any shape or form a better clutch player than Lebron.......... Season or Playoffs or ECF or Finals..................

http://tgchan.org/kusaba/questarch/src/125132960039.jpg

[pauk]

LEBRON & KOBE PLAYOFF GAMEWINNING/GAMETYING SHOTS:

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Lebron-GWinners-Playoffs.png
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Kobe-GWinners-Playoffs.png




:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

[pauk]

:biggums: :coleman: :yaohappy: :crazysam: :milton :lebron:
http://i1091.photobucket.com/albums/i394/Swagengen/ec196c22.png :kobe:

Pretty much everyone disagrees with you.

i dont seek your stupid disagreements................. i present to you facts..... after seeing all these facts you can choose to live on with a fantasy of where a CHOKER is CLUTCH and where a CLUTCH PLAYER is a CHOKER......... or accept the reality of your lack of braincells or need of a therapy....

[chazzy]

pauk furious. Lebron hasn't been clutch since joining the Heat bro. He was before though.

[Droid101]

Pauk, kindly post LeBron's two best finals series stats against Kobe's two best finals series stats.

Kthxbye

[Rnbizzle]

Lebron has been pretty damn clutch lately, of course, the haters will fail to recognize.

[Oositdwn]

aaaaaaaaaaaand team accomplishments and getting 3 rings handed to him on a silverplate has what to do with Clutch again? :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: :confusedshrug: You mean showing up two times more than lebron did when it mattered most (finals) :rolleyes: . I'm not disagreeing with you when you say Kobe hasn't been real clutch this season, but understand that being clutch isn't just a a statistic thing. Stats can't explain Lebron standing in the corner looking at wade take over the game in 4th qtrs and OT's. Stats can't really explain why Lebron is considered the best player in the game but can't take a shot to win the game for his team.

[Droid101]

Lebron has been pretty damn clutch lately, of course, the haters will fail to recognize.
Yeah, he hit his first game-tying or winning buzzer beater shot in over three years finally! Brava!

[Oositdwn]

Pauk, kindly post LeBron's two best finals series stats against Kobe's two best finals series stats.

Kthxbye
Game set match

[BMOGEFan]

Do we need to remind Pauk about this

http://www.sportsgrid.com/nba/lebron-turnover-all-star-game/

[Disaprine]

now do you understand that stats dont tell the whole story?
:lol
he'll never understand. :lol

[Rnbizzle]

Yeah, he hit his first game-tying or winning buzzer beater shot in over three years finally! Brava!
Yeah.. and in every other close game in the last couple of weeks, he's been making most of his shots in the final minutes. Can someone dig up some stats?

[Droid101]

Yeah.. and in every other close game in the last couple of weeks, he's been making most of his shots in the final minutes. Can someone dig up some stats?
Is that why they're 4-4 after the All star break? :oldlol:

He should leave the big-boy crunch time to Wade.

[Rnbizzle]

Is that why they're 4-4 after the All star break? :oldlol:

He should leave the big-boy crunch time to Wade.
Tough schedule means nothing? What has OKC's schedule been since?

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

Here is what Lebron is currently remembered for...
22ppg at 36%fg with 6 TOs per game
18ppg with only 3 FTs per game at 60%FT and 4 TOs

yikes.

[zizozain]

why the stats when you can WATCH the game

[HurricaneKid]

Are all the Laker fans whining about how unclutch LBJ is failing to watch Kobe unravel the past 10 days, missing all 4 of his gamewinning attempts?

Clutch isn't in stats? How can 7.9/25.5 (per 36) in clutch moments POSSIBLY be considered clutch?

[chazzy]

Yeah.. and in every other close game in the last couple of weeks, he's been making most of his shots in the final minutes. Can someone dig up some stats?
Utah and and Pacer games were good.. wasn't clutch against Atlanta, Orlando, Chicago

[bwink23]

Pauk, kindly post LeBron's two best finals series stats against Kobe's two best finals series stats.

Kthxbye


Hardly seems fair when one guy has been there 7 times and the other 2?? :confusedshrug:

How about i put up Kobe's 2000 NBA Finals vs. Lebron's in 2007...

Lebron in 2007 = 22.0ppg on 35.6%FG, 7 boards and 6.8 assists....Game highs of 25,25,24 on 37.8%FG

Kobe in 2000 = 15.6ppg on 36.7%FG, 4.6 rebs, 4.2 assists.
Game highs of 28,26 on 40.7%FG.

Edge = LEBRON.

I'll give you any of Kobe's others vs. Lebron's last year.

50/50

[chazzy]

Are all the Laker fans whining about how unclutch LBJ is failing to watch Kobe unravel the past 10 days, missing all 4 of his gamewinning attempts?

Clutch isn't in stats? How can 7.9/25.5 (per 36) in clutch moments POSSIBLY be considered clutch?
Kobe for the season has been pretty bad in the clutch. But I thought he played well in crunch time in these past 4 games despite missing game winners.

[hawke812]

YES HE WAS NOT ABLE TO BE OVERALL A SUPERHERO AGAINST THE MAVS IN THE PLAYOFFS IN 3 GAMES...... BUT THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACTS OF LEBRON BEING THE MOST CLUTCH PLAYER.... NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WISH FOR IT.... [/SIZE]

He did not perform as a good overall role player in the finals. Let's not even talk about being a Superhero:lol

The whole Lebron is not clutch thing is a recent phenomenon. Why are you posting stats since 2003? Only Lebron ******gers with an agenda would do that. Yes he was clutch, was being the keyword. Your boy has been shook son, get over it:confusedshrug:

[hawke812]

UPDATE (sorry Kobetards):


LeBron -
35.8 pts
40.0% fg
42.0% eFG
71.7% ft,
47.1% eFG when taking a midrange jumper with 0-15 seconds left on shotclock.
9 made out of 23 FG attempts per 48 minutes in clutch

http://www.82games.com/1112/11MIA8.HTM

Kobe -
32.2 pts
27.9% fg
29.5% eFG
71.4% ft
29.5% eFG when taking a midrange jumper with 0-15 seconds left on shotclock.
10 made out of 38 FG attempts per 48 minutes in clutch (shotjacker? no? ok..)


http://www.82games.com/1112/11LAL5.HTM#clutch

Watch the games pauk:rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4

[bwink23]

Lakers fans have become pretty proficient in turning a blind eye to Kobe's late game clankers, but have an elephant's memory when it comes to Lebron's final-minute bricks.

That's what STATS are for.....to give a totally unbiased point of view...it's much more difficult to argue the numbers than it is to argue off memory and biased opinions.

[SwooshReturns]

He did not perform as a good overall role player in the finals. Let's not even talk about being a Superhero
Yea, he wasn't even performing to his averages and this guy is saying "sorry he wasn't a superhero"

:oldlol:

Only superheroes I've ever seen in the NBA Finals for an entire series was Jordan and Shaq.

[SwooshReturns]

That's what STATS are for.....to give a totally unbiased point of view...it's much more difficult to argue the numbers than it is to argue off memory and biased opinions.
Stats can never come close to gauging context of what is considered a "clutch" play or basket.

:facepalm

[bwink23]

Watch the games pauk:rolleyes:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4


Take your own advice...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd8mGzGK1Uc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzMYKBtl5Xw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLMZOVsyw1g

[hawke812]

Lakers fans have become pretty proficient in turning a blind eye to Kobe's late game clankers, but have an elephant's memory when it comes to Lebron's final-minute bricks.

That's what STATS are for.....to give a totally unbiased point of view...it's much more difficult to argue the numbers than it is to argue off memory and biased opinions.

If you compare Lebron's clutch stats form his cavs days to his heat days, his clutchness has taken a turn for the worse. This is why people have recently been saying he is mentally weak. Not sure what Kobe has to do with this topic:confusedshrug:

[bwink23]

Stats can never come close to gauging context of what is considered a "clutch" play or basket.

:facepalm


Alot closer than what you can off of someone's memory....

Stats are all your gonna have...not everyone is gonna watch every single game....

Tell that to kids 10 years from now...

[bwink23]

If you compare Lebron's clutch stats form his cavs days to his heat days, his clutchness has taken a turn for the worse. This is why people have recently been saying he is mentally weak. Not sure what Kobe has to do with this topic:confusedshrug:


Yeah....judging by the fact you got a Lakers avatar in a Lebron forum...i'd say Kobe has everything to do with it.

[hawke812]

Take your own advice...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qd8mGzGK1Uc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JzMYKBtl5Xw

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HLMZOVsyw1g

How about you stay on topic? If you want to talk about Kobe, make another thread:confusedshrug:

[CavaliersFTW]

LEBRON & KOBE PLAYOFF GAMEWINNING/GAMETYING SHOTS:

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Lebron-GWinners-Playoffs.png
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Kobe-GWinners-Playoffs.png




:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Young Lebron had fire in the gut in his early years, at one time he was a confident stud with so much promise. Every Cleveland fan knows it. Then we all watched his mental fortitude slip away into oblivion. He started out playing big early in his career then all the attention, increased pressure, and some poor clutch performances started eroding his confidence. Your "clutch" chart is demonstrating this decline perfectly that everyone already knows about - are you really this blind!?

2006. He takes three and misses one. Clutch
**Confidence sky high**

2007. He takes three and misses one. Clutch
**Confidence still sky high**

2007 Finals - He takes one and misses, fails to perform well, shows first signs of giving up - not clutch.
**Lebrons youthful confidence takes a serious hit**

Think I'm wrong?

2008 He takes two misses both.
**Lebrons confidence in himself plummets even more**

2009 He takes two misses one.
**Lebrons game winner was NOT a must-win game. Cavs get beaten definitively in a series they were expected to win. Confidence Annihilated**

2010 choke-city during the Boston series especially. No clutch shots even attempted by the coward. He looked distant in the last game, you could tell he had given up and wanted to be anywhere except that game. The decision was made in-part because he did not want to handle that kind of pressure anymore.
**Confidence is absolutely definitively crushed beyond all hope of repair, he is rock bottom**

2011 He takes 1 clutch attempt all series despite making it all the way to the NBA finals, and he misses his one clutch shot attempt during a game that did not even need to be won.
**Confidence remains non-existent**








Show us some stats of how many times he started passing off in clutch situations please. Don't have any? Of course not because why would that stat exist from a cherry picked crop of "Lebron in the Clutch" The pattern you will see is that he won't pass off at all in his young confident years. After his missed "clutch" shots - suddenly he starts passing off and looking scared. He'll do it more as his confidence plummets into oblivion.


Seriously dude, are you blind? I've seen every single playoff game he ever played in. I know what the hell happened with him. He transformed from a confident young star to a dude who's become afraid of pressure in do or die situations - no other superstar is like that.

[hawke812]

Yeah....judging by the fact you got a Lakers avatar in a Lebron forum...i'd say Kobe has everything to do with it.

This is the Lebron Forum now:facepalm

[SlayerEnraged]

Alot closer than what you can off of someone's memory....

Stats are all your gonna have...not everyone is gonna watch every single game....

Tell that to kids 10 years from now...

Clutch stats are retarded as hell because they don't tell any context of the situation at all. They don't tell how much time was on the clock, if he's double teamed, who'se guarding him, if the opponents team is playing well defensively that night, etc.

[bwink23]

How about you stay on topic? If you want to talk about Kobe, make another thread:confusedshrug:


NO....Many stans hear consider Kobe to be clutch....if that's the case, then we can use Kobe as a barometer.

How do you know what clutch is, if you have nothing to gauge it by??

Kobe's the gauge.

[bwink23]

Clutch stats are retarded as hell because they don't tell any context of the situation at all. They don't tell how much time was on the clock, if he's double teamed, who'se guarding him, if the opponents team is playing well defensively that night, etc.


NO DUH....do you watch EVERY SINGLE PLAYERS' games??

No you don't.

So how you gonna gauge how clutch ANYONE is, if you can't watch it all??

That's what the STATS do....They give you a situation, and that situation is EQUAL for all players being compared.

Now you can see who's clutch by different times in the game...

5 seconds, 10 seconds, 2 minutes, whatever...

[Phong]

Show us some stats of how many times he started passing off in clutch situations please. Don't have any? Of course not because why would that stat exist from a cherry picked crop of "Lebron in the Clutch" The pattern you will see is that he won't pass off at all in his young confident years. After his missed "clutch" shots - suddenly he starts passing off and looking scared. He'll do it more as his confidence plummets into oblivion.


Seriously dude, are you blind? I've seen every single playoff game he ever played in. I know what the hell happened with him. He transformed from a confident young star to a dude who's become afraid of pressure in do or die situations - no other superstar is like that.:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Droid101]

Young Lebron had fire in the gut in his early years, at one time he was a confident stud with so much promise. Every Cleveland fan knows it. Then we all watched his mental fortitude slip away into oblivion. He started out playing big early in his career then all the attention, increased pressure, and some poor clutch performances started eroding his confidence. Your "clutch" chart is demonstrating this decline perfectly that everyone already knows about - are you really this blind!?

2006. He takes three and misses one. Clutch
**Confidence sky high**

2007. He takes three and misses one. Clutch
**Confidence still sky high**

2007 Finals - He takes none and misses, fails to perform well, shows first signs of giving up - not clutch.
**Lebrons youthful confidence takes a serious hit**

Think I'm wrong?

2008 He takes two misses both.
**Lebrons confidence in himself plummets even more**

2009 He takes two misses one.
**Lebrons game winner was NOT a must-win game. Cavs get beaten definitively in a series they were expected to win. Confidence Annihilated**

2010 choke-city during the Boston series especially. No clutch shots even attempted by the coward.
**Confidence is absolutely definitively crushed beyond all hope of repair, he is rock bottom**

2011 He takes 1 clutch attempt0 all series despite making it all the way to the NBA finals, and he misses his one shot he had the balls to take during a game that did not need to be won.
**Confidence remains non-existent**








Show us some stats of how many times he started passing off in clutch situations please. Don't have any? Of course not because why would that stat exist from a cherry picked crop of "Lebron in the Clutch" The pattern you will see is that he won't pass off at all in his young confident years. After his missed "clutch" shots - suddenly he starts passing off and looking scared. He'll do it more as his confidence plummets into oblivion.


Seriously dude, are you blind? I've seen every single playoff game he ever played in. I know what the hell happened with him. He transformed from a confident young star to a dude who's become afraid of pressure in do or die situations - no other superstar is like that.
http://markreads.net/reviews/wp-content/uploads/2012/01/clapping.gif


Required reading for the blind LeBron homers.

[talkingconch]

im shocked to see even ONE human being on earth say Lebron has NOT SHOWN MENTAL TOUGHNESS / CLUTCHNESS..... after all Lebron has done.... yet i see a couple actully say that here on ISH! haha... alrighty then......

so yea... enough is enough... its time to remind these haters of the facts they desperately try to avoid.... lets go:

1st of all, since 2003, Lebron has accumulated the most gamewinners (http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm)...

Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Lebron-GameWinners.jpg

2nd of all, Lebron has been at the top in Clutch stats (http://82games.com/index.htm) since these Clutch stats (http://82games.com/index.htm) were first started to be recorded...

"For these stats "Clutch" is defined as:

4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points"

2010-11
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2011-clutch-stats.jpg

2009-10
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2010-clutch-stats.jpg

2008-09
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2009-clutch-stats.jpg

2007-08
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2008-clutch-stats.jpg



NOW.... LETS PROCEED TO SOME PLAYOFFS CLUTCH HIGHLIGHTS SHALL WE?

LEBRON 2011 FINALS GAME 1 VS MAVS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hofAKcqBgc

LEBRON 2011 PLAYOFF CLUTCH PLAYS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eDjYYO-rAw

LEBRON CLOSING THE CELTICS SERIES 2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Rd7vd9Dl8

LEBRON TORCHING THE BULLS IN THE ECF 2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1Wp2hkGY_8

LEBRON PLAYOFF GAMEWINNERS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTGG6-W6S2Y

LEBRON VS PISTONS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-LHeUsLLy8

Lebron James GameWinners & Buzzerbeaters highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU2N0q6iSHk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ2DXJFH_hY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM4xrVBjwjM


and so on................................................ ...................


SO... BEFORE YOU HAVE THE COJONES TO ACTUALLY QUESTION LEBRONS MENTAL TOUGHNESS / CLUTCHNESS AGAIN......... REMEMBER... BY FACTS, YOU ARE ACTUALLY QUESTIONING THE MOST OVERALL PRODUCTIVE CLUTCH PLAYER IN THE NBA........... HE DOESNT JUST SCORE, HE REBOUNDS, PASSES AND GETS KEY DEFENSIVE STOPS IN THE CLUTCH AS YOU CAN SEE ABOVE.....

LEBRON IS HUMAN.... SO HE WILL FAIL IN THE CLUTCH.... BUT AS YOU CAN SEE UPSTAIRS... HE OVERALL PREVAILS ON THAT END MORE THAN ANYBODY..... SEASON OR PLAYOFFS.....

YES HE WAS NOT ABLE TO BE OVERALL A SUPERHERO AGAINST THE MAVS IN THE PLAYOFFS IN 3 GAMES...... BUT THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACTS OF LEBRON BEING THE MOST CLUTCH PLAYER.... NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WISH FOR IT....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k3kKxtSQa-4

[zizozain]

This is the Lebron Forum now:facepalm
:roll:

[bwink23]

What this really boils down to is this:

1. Do you think he is gonna right his ship??

2. Do you WANT him to right his ship??


I believe he will right his ship. If you hate Lebron, your gonna want him to NEVER right his ship.

There is constructive criticism, and then just plain hate. We all know Lebron of the last 2 years has seemed wishy-washy in the closing seconds. Those that are criticizing....your not telling anybody anything..

Answer this.....Do you HOPE he can do better, or do you NOT WANT him to do better?


No matter how some of you want to disguise it, this is still about whether you just don't like Lebron, or not.

[hawke812]

Young Lebron had fire in the gut in his early years, at one time he was a confident stud with so much promise. Every Cleveland fan knows it. Then we all watched his mental fortitude slip away into oblivion. He started out playing big early in his career then all the attention, increased pressure, and some poor clutch performances started eroding his confidence. Your "clutch" chart is demonstrating this decline perfectly that everyone already knows about - are you really this blind!?

2006. He takes three and misses one. Clutch
**Confidence sky high**

2007. He takes three and misses one. Clutch
**Confidence still sky high**

2007 Finals - He takes none and misses, fails to perform well, shows first signs of giving up - not clutch.
**Lebrons youthful confidence takes a serious hit**

Think I'm wrong?

2008 He takes two misses both.
**Lebrons confidence in himself plummets even more**

2009 He takes two misses one.
**Lebrons game winner was NOT a must-win game. Cavs get beaten definitively in a series they were expected to win. Confidence Annihilated**

2010 choke-city during the Boston series especially. No clutch shots even attempted by the coward. He looked distant in the last game, you could tell he had given up and wanted to be anywhere except that game. The decision was made in-part because he did not want to handle that kind of pressure anymore.
**Confidence is absolutely definitively crushed beyond all hope of repair, he is rock bottom**

2011 He takes 1 clutch attempt all series despite making it all the way to the NBA finals, and he misses his one clutch shot attempt during a game that did not even need to be won.
**Confidence remains non-existent**








Show us some stats of how many times he started passing off in clutch situations please. Don't have any? Of course not because why would that stat exist from a cherry picked crop of "Lebron in the Clutch" The pattern you will see is that he won't pass off at all in his young confident years. After his missed "clutch" shots - suddenly he starts passing off and looking scared. He'll do it more as his confidence plummets into oblivion.


Seriously dude, are you blind? I've seen every single playoff game he ever played in. I know what the hell happened with him. He transformed from a confident young star to a dude who's become afraid of pressure in do or die situations - no other superstar is like that.

OH MY GOD YES:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[Droid101]

What this really boils down to is this:

1. Do you think he is gonna right his ship??

2. Do you WANT him to right his ship??


1. Maybe.

2. No.

He's turned into a spoiled, stat-padding brat. Nobody wants to see someone like that succeed.

[bwink23]

1. Maybe.

2. No.

He's turned into a spoiled, stat-padding brat. Nobody wants to see someone like that succeed.


Kobe has been a spoiled, stat-padding brat from DAY ONE he entered the league. :no:

[Droid101]

Kobe has been a spoiled, stat-padding brat from DAY ONE he entered the league. :no:
Kobe does not stat pad. Kobe tries to win every game.

But, that's irrelevant. This is a thread about LeBron James.

[SlayerEnraged]

NO DUH....do you watch EVERY SINGLE PLAYERS' games??

No you don't.

So how you gonna gauge how clutch ANYONE is, if you can't watch it all??

That's what the STATS do....They give you a situation, and that situation is EQUAL for all players being compared.

Now you can see who's clutch by different times in the game...

5 seconds, 10 seconds, 2 minutes, whatever...

How about u ask all Experts and NBA coaches who is the most clutch player in the nba? Even in 09 when the Lebron bandwagoners like Charles tryed making false accusations that lebron was better, they still agnowledged kobe was the best closer. Kobe's been put in tougher spots than most players (some his fault some not) and that's it there is to it. When Kobe misses it's usually shots that most players aren't going to make. All I gotta say is I love Kobe being on my Lakers team. Wins us ball games and championships all the time. Lechoke can shoot 75% in the rest of the 4th quarters he plays in for his career and he's still a failure in my books unless these shooting percentages deliver winning and championship results.

[hawke812]

Kobe does not stat pad. Kobe tries to win every game.

But, that's irrelevant. This is a thread about LeBron James.

Not according to him:lol

[bwink23]

Kobe does not stat pad. Kobe tries to win every game.

But, that's irrelevant. This is a thread about LeBron James.


:roll: .....Yeah right....Kobe's out to get his no matter what. As long as he gets his point totals, he's happy. :D

And Lebron doesn't try to win the games?? Didn't he lead Cleveland to the NBA's best record twice, and the Finals once in his young career??

Haters gonna hate...:pimp:

[Droid101]

And Lebron doesn't try to win the games?? Didn't he lead Cleveland to the NBA's best record twice, and the Finals once in his young career??

Thanks for getting back on topic.

Did you even read that nice Cavalier fan's post above? Early in his career he was about winning.

Now, he just wants to watch his shooting percentage and not take any pressure-filled shots.

If you can't see that, you're being blind plain and simple.

[bwink23]

How about u ask all Experts and NBA coaches who is the most clutch player in the nba? Even in 09 when the Lebron bandwagoners like Charles tryed making false accusations that lebron was better, they still agnowledged kobe was the best closer. Kobe's been put in tougher spots than most players (some his fault some not) and that's it there is to it. When Kobe misses it's usually shots that most players aren't going to make. All I gotta say is I love Kobe being on my Lakers team. Wins us ball games and championships all the time. Lechoke can shoot 75% in the rest of the 4th quarters he plays in for his career and he's still a failure in my books unless these shooting percentages deliver winning and championship results.



Don't you mean shots most smart ballers won't take??

[bwink23]

Thanks for getting back on topic.

Did you even read that nice Cavalier fan's post above? Early in his career he was about winning.

Now, he just wants to watch his shooting percentage and not take any pressure-filled shots.

If you can't see that, you're being blind plain and simple.


EXACTLY....you talking like Lebron has never been there. Like he never put it on the line. it's only been really in the last couple years that he's been bagging it in the final moments.

Like i said....you either BELIEVE he will get it together, or he won't....to say he won't, your just plain hating, period.

[Droid101]

EXACTLY....you talking like Lebron has never been there. Like he never put it on the line. it's only been really in the last couple years that he's been bagging it in the final moments.

Like i said....you either BELIEVE he will get it together, or he won't....to say he won't, your just plain hating, period.
What has he done to prove he'll ever get it back? His confidence in those moments is long gone.

[SlayerEnraged]

:rolleyes:
Don't you mean shots most smart ballers won't take??

First of all, u don't hear other laker players, fans, coaches, etc bitching about it and secondly, thats a CHARACTER FLAW, not a skill deficiency or anything like that. Given a reasonable look, Kobes as good or better than any nba player today. Think otherwise? Go call every coach who said he is and tell them they're wrong. :rolleyes:

Don't know who I hate more...Lebron,Ginoboli MJ, Wade, Duncan and probably a couple others I can't think of right off the top of my head. All are the most babied and overated players in NBA history.

[CLE[216]]

OP = :lebroncry:

[bwink23]

What has he done to prove he'll ever get it back? His confidence in those moments is long gone.


Like i said....you have faith, or wish him failure....I already know where you are in this so you can move along.

[bwink23]

:rolleyes:

First of all, u don't hear other laker players, fans, coaches, etc bitching about it and secondly, thats a CHARACTER FLAW, not a skill deficiency or anything like that. Given a reasonable look, Kobes as good or better than any nba player today. Think otherwise? Go call every coach who said he is and tell them they're wrong. :rolleyes:

Don't know who I hate more...Lebron,Ginoboli MJ, Wade, Duncan and probably a couple others I can't think of right off the top of my head. All are the most babied and overated players in NBA history.



Spoken like a true Kobe scrotum tickler.....congratulations, nothing new here.....:applause:

[SlayerEnraged]

Spoken like a true Kobe scrotum tickler.....congratulations, nothing new here.....:applause:
Hows MJ's chode fa99it

[bleedinpurpleTwo]

unlike many on here, I believe Lebron WILL find his Finals groove. He WILL perform better in the Finals (can't perform any worse). And he will get at least a few opportunities to do so...prolly beginning this year.
He is simply TOO GOOD of a player to suck that bad every time.

[Oositdwn]

It's okay Lebron stans when the playoffs are said and done you'll be scratching your head saying ''Well...........MJ was (insert age) when he won his first championship'' like you always do.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://seatgeek.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/NBA-Finals-2011.png

[Lebron23]

Old Story Bro.

[Eat Like A Bosh]

Apparently you don't watch 4th quarters. LeBron is mentally weak. He gets really tense during 4th quarters at the biggest stage of his life. As the best player of the Heat, he should take the initiative and be more aggressive. It's his responsibility. But every time when he gets the ball in the 4th, he just becomes so passive. He doesn't want to attack at all, and passes up easy shots. He's shaking inside, he's afraid. Afraid of missing a big shot, afraid of failure on the biggest stage. Fear is conquering him. LeBron can definitely close out games, but it's like sometimes he doesn't trust himself at end of the games. He doesn't have that confidence that some other players have.

Until LeBron can conquer his fears, he does not even belong in the same sentence as kobe. (And when he does, he'll be one hell of a player)

[I.R.Beast]

james has always been a choker when facing a formidable opponent.... so what he beat some below .500 teams in the playoffs in his Cleveland days.

[EllEffEll]

being labelled clutch or unclutch is worth a lick.

chokers like rose were labelled clutch somehow, when guys like dirk over their whole career were labelled unclutch. you had durant who was labelled clutch for a while, then people came to their senses.

people today call magic johnson clutch. go back to when he was playing and he was "tragic johnson" in late game situations, and he deserved the title.
peoples perception is always skewed by the media and their own bias.

:facepalm

The AIDS situation was tragic, but that's not where the nickname came from. Magic had already won 2 Championships when he got the "tragic" moniker from Kevin McHale for the 1984 Finals. That series turned on a handful of plays, and yes Magic was a big past of those.

I am SMFH at how you can call the floor general of a team that won 5 Championships in 9 years "tragic". Maybe it's relative. Like that the Lakers didn't win every year. They actually didn't win a Championship even 50% of the time he was in the league. So, yeah. . . . very tragic.

Like in 1980, when he was a 20 year old rookie and Kareem went down with an ankle injury in Game 5 of the Finals. So, Magic essentially played at the C, and scored 42 point in Game 6 to win the title. . . . in Philadelphia.

Or, maybe you recall the 1987 Finals against Boston when the 'junior, junior skyhook' to take the Lakers up to a 3-1 series lead and the title in 6 games.

The Lakers made it to the Finals 9 out of his 12 season. By the time Magic turned 27 (LeBron's current age), Magic had already won three Championships and had 2 Finals MVP awards. >99% of the players in league history wish for a career that was so "tragic" (including the guy that hung the label on him).

[Simple Jack]

Everyone has a PhD in Psychology nowadays, huh?

[Mr. Jabbar]

http://seatgeek.com/blog/wp-content/uploads/2011/01/NBA-Finals-2011.png

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8775/wadek.png

[pauk]

LeClutch did work yet again tonight.... :applause:

[Heavincent]

LeClutch did work yet again tonight.... :applause:

5 points on 1/4 shooting. So clutch :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

The standards for Lebron are so ****ing low these days.

[Mr. Jabbar]

LeClutch did work yet again tonight.... :applause:


:coleman:

[bwink23]

5 points on 1/4 shooting. So clutch :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

The standards for Lebron are so ****ing low these days.


Was clutch needed ?? :confusedshrug:

[pauk]

5 points on 1/4 shooting. So clutch :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

The standards for Lebron are so ****ing low these days.

Eh? Thats for the 6 mins he played in the 4th quarter... He hit a crucial jumpshot and freethrows to close the game out.... hitting it when it counts, thats the whole point... nice try...

get lost... or at least go back to watching kobrick cryant shotjack with 40% fg again and choke in the 4th and lose or get bailed out by Bynum/Gasol

[Heavincent]

Eh? Thats for the 6 mins he played in the 4th quarter... He hit a crucial jumpshot and freethrows to close the game out.... hitting it when it counts, thats the whole point... nice try...

get lost...

3/4 on FT...meh, don't see the big deal
1/4 FG...pretty bad

Not to mention an 8 second violation that should have been called.

Lebron's fourth quarter tonight was not noteworthy at all. The fact that you're gushing about it shows how low the standards are for Lebron these days.

[hawke812]

EXACTLY....you talking like Lebron has never been there. Like he never put it on the line. it's only been really in the last couple years that he's been bagging it in the final moments.

Like i said....you either BELIEVE he will get it together, or he won't....to say he won't, your just plain hating, period.

It does not matter if we think he will get it together or not. That is all on Lebron. It's not like he got injured or is declining. Dude does not even try at times. Many of us are saddened by this.

You think going from GODMODE during his cavs days to throwing in the towel and not even trying at times, people are not going to talk about it? You expect people to ignore this lesser Lebron and reminisce about cavs Lebron? Get over it man.

[Heavincent]

get lost... or at least go back to watching kobrick cryant shotjack with 40% fg again and choke in the 4th and lose or get bailed out by Bynum/Gasol

Kobe in the fourth quarter tonight: 6 points on 2/3 shooting

Lebron in the fourth quarter tonight: 5 points on 1/4 shooting

:confusedshrug:

[CavaliersFTW]

LeClutch did work yet again tonight.... :applause:

...Calm down there little buddy. This is the regular season - and this "clutch" performance is not a clutch performance. There is no must-win situation - if he misses that bucket oh well. If he makes it great - but it won't mean anything at the end of the season.

The only evidence that he's clutch is going to come the day that he sinks a clutch bucket in a "must-win" do or die playoff game in the final seconds, despite having open options to dish to open teammates so as to bail himself out. Lebron being clutch would be Lebron finally believing in himself as the only person that should ever be taking the last shot no matter how high the stakes are, and he should be doing it w/o any hesitation. Watch the "must-win" games of the 2010 ECF. and last years Finals. That's why he's called LeChoke.

Everyone here except you it seems, is waiting to see how the kid does in the playoffs this year. He earned his nickname LeChoke for a reason. He's gonna have to do a lot more than hit meaningless buckets during the regular season to redeem himself - because regular season buckets have never had anything to do with why he is considered a choker.

[d21221hk]

Kobe in the fourth quarter tonight: 6 points on 2/3 shooting

Lebron in the fourth quarter tonight: 5 points on 1/4 shooting

:confusedshrug:
why do i always see you in lebron threads? :confusedshrug: insecure much?

for the record, both of these clowns aren't that clutch facht.

[ganja0710]

bwink23 pauk = mad.

agree broz?

and nah lebron23 aint mad, ***** is just retarded as ****.

[Deuce Bigalow]

http://img6.imageshack.us/img6/8775/wadek.png
:roll: :roll: :roll:

[Oositdwn]

It's not hard to see the mental damage the finals last year had on him.

[RazorBaLade]

i dont get why you go and post how clutch bron is after a game like tonight but you'll say clutch doesnt matter and its fine and doesnt matter when he fails horribly.

I assume he didnt run from the ball or play hot potato tonight and it seems to have worked out great. if youre gonna praise him for this, rightfully, then just criticize when he plays like a queen.

PS: didnt watch, have no idea what he did. but you posted LeClutch tonight so I assume this was teh case

[Rocker09]

Lebron needs to ignore his FG% in close game situations. He can't be afraid to miss the big shots becaus his team is expecting for him to take those shots...A great closer is someone who's not afraid to fail. A great closer may miss 10 shots in a row but when the game is on the line or when his team is trailing, he's still gonna be the one who's going to take the important shots...

[Oositdwn]

Kobe in the fourth quarter tonight: 6 points on 2/3 shooting

Lebron in the fourth quarter tonight: 5 points on 1/4 shooting

:confusedshrug:
You're missing the point, Lebron and Kobe have different standards. With Kobe he doesn't shy away from the moment hence why he can have numbers like that and people aren't bothered cos you know he has that winners mentality all the time. Lebron on the other hand has been scared since finals so it's quite surprising when he finally hits a significant shot.

[PJR]

Why is that it's always the Kobrick fa99ot brigade raiding LeBron threads? Same names in every thread.

Let LeGod cook. His championship ring is coming. Ya'll know it..:bowdown:

[Indian guy]

We are asking a player who's game was 75% built on dominant slashing even as recently as 2010 to play a completely skill-oriented game with the pressure at its peak. Is it any surprise he has confidence issues?

Can't people see LeBron has nothing to offer against a set defense beyond mid-range jumpers? It's sort of amazing he's still somehow managed to be as productive as he's been the last 2 seasons.

[madmax]

We are asking a player who's game was 75% built on dominant slashing even as recently as 2010 to play a completely skill-oriented game with the pressure at its peak. Is it any surprise he has confidence issues?

Can't people see LeBron has nothing to offer against a set defense beyond mid-range jumpers? It's sort of amazing he's still somehow managed to be as productive as he's been the last 2 seasons.

:facepalm

[talkingconch]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKjU_XLEIS0&feature=plcp&context=C4fcdc9fVDvjVQa1PpcFOz5T1oCCdCL9U5MnWCrtsW FbDfexM-20k=

[scotty00007]

We are asking a player who's game was 75% built on dominant slashing even as recently as 2010 to play a completely skill-oriented game with the pressure at its peak. Is it any surprise he has confidence issues?

Can't people see LeBron has nothing to offer against a set defense beyond mid-range jumpers? It's sort of amazing he's still somehow managed to be as productive as he's been the last 2 seasons.

Dude you are probably the most infuriating poster on this board, i would rather hear 10000 kobe stans opinions before yours, I swear you are bi-polar and you just need to stfu.

Bron had 12 or 14 point in the paint tonight and is shooting 40 percent from long range for the season... as well as shooting great from mid range.

Im at a loss at what you want from him? Statistically and defensively one of his finest seasons including top notch PER, so what if he doesnt slash as much and dunk over everybody anymore a la blake griffin, it is what it is and hes still the best player in the nba.

The reason why he has struggled in the last two seasons except for the playoffs last year in the clutch is because he knows its not just him now, his confidence is killed by the fact that wade and bosh are right next to him and everybody is gonna be mad if he throws up a rubbish shot with dwade and bosh on the team.... it has absolutely nothing to do with athleticism or skill level.

A few years ago everybody said he needs to be in the post he needs to shoot jumpers, now that he does that, ignorant fools like you are saying hes lost his athleticism bla bla bla. He wants longevity = layup 2 points, gigantic dunk 2 points.

Either like him or hate him dont be a bi-polar freak about it.

[Lebron23]

Dude you are probably the most infuriating poster on this board, i would rather hear 10000 kobe stans opinions before yours, I swear you are bi-polar and you just need to stfu.

Bron had 12 or 14 point in the paint tonight and is shooting 40 percent from long range for the season... as well as shooting great from mid range.

Im at a loss at what you want from him? Statistically and defensively one of his finest seasons including top notch PER, so what if he doesnt slash as much and dunk over everybody anymore a la blake griffin, it is what it is and hes still the best player in the nba.

The reason why he has struggled in the last two seasons except for the playoffs last year in the clutch is because he knows its not just him now, his confidence is killed by the fact that wade and bosh are right next to him and everybody is gonna be mad if he throws up a rubbish shot with dwade and bosh on the team.... it has absolutely nothing to do with athleticism or skill level.

A few years ago everybody said he needs to be in the post he needs to shoot jumpers, now that he does that, ignorant fools like you are saying hes lost his athleticism bla bla bla. He wants longevity = layup 2 points, gigantic dunk 2 points.

Either like him or hate him dont be a bi-polar freak about it.


/End Thread

[Indian guy]

Bron had 12 or 14 point in the paint tonight

None of those were self-created baskets. They either came off off-ball cuts or offensive rebounds. Nobody's allowing that at the end of games.

Little confused wit the "bi-polar" accusations lately. I've been saying the same ****ing thing for 2 seasons now.

[ganja0710]

http://nbasportsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/LeBron-Ringless.jpeg

[scotty00007]

None of those were self-created baskets. They either came off off-ball cuts or offensive rebounds. Nobody's allowing that at the end of games.

Little confused wit the "bi-polar" accusations lately. I've been saying the same ****ing thing for 2 seasons now.

You said previously that he had nothing to offer in the half court other than a mid range game then I say he got scores in the paint. You refute by saying they were off cuts and such. So that means he's slashing and playing well off the ball yeah?
Which is the exact thing you were complaining that he couldn't do before. and I'm fairly sure you don't have to play ISO ball to win at the end of games.

Then you sit back and wonder why people are asking what is up with your idiotic self..

[Sharmer]

im shocked to see even ONE human being on earth say Lebron has NOT SHOWN MENTAL TOUGHNESS / CLUTCHNESS..... after all Lebron has done.... yet i see a couple actully say that here on ISH! haha... alrighty then......

so yea... enough is enough... its time to remind these haters of the facts they desperately try to avoid.... lets go:

1st of all, since 2003, Lebron has accumulated the most gamewinners (http://82games.com/gamewinningshots.htm)...

Game Winning Shot Opportunity = 24 seconds or less left in the game, team with the ball is either tied or down by 1 to 2 points.

http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/Lebron-GameWinners.jpg

2nd of all, Lebron has been at the top in Clutch stats (http://82games.com/index.htm) since these Clutch stats (http://82games.com/index.htm) were first started to be recorded...

"For these stats "Clutch" is defined as:

4th quarter or overtime, less than 5 minutes left, neither team ahead by more than 5 points"

2010-11
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2011-clutch-stats.jpg

2009-10
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2010-clutch-stats.jpg

2008-09
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2009-clutch-stats.jpg

2007-08
http://i1214.photobucket.com/albums/cc500/pauk666/2008-clutch-stats.jpg



NOW.... LETS PROCEED TO SOME PLAYOFFS CLUTCH HIGHLIGHTS SHALL WE?

LEBRON 2011 FINALS GAME 1 VS MAVS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hofAKcqBgc

LEBRON 2011 PLAYOFF CLUTCH PLAYS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eDjYYO-rAw

LEBRON CLOSING THE CELTICS SERIES 2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5Rd7vd9Dl8

LEBRON TORCHING THE BULLS IN THE ECF 2011:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J1Wp2hkGY_8

LEBRON PLAYOFF GAMEWINNERS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dTGG6-W6S2Y

LEBRON VS PISTONS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_-LHeUsLLy8

Lebron James GameWinners & Buzzerbeaters highlights:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BU2N0q6iSHk

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uZ2DXJFH_hY

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZM4xrVBjwjM


and so on................................................ ...................


SO... BEFORE YOU HAVE THE COJONES TO ACTUALLY QUESTION LEBRONS MENTAL TOUGHNESS / CLUTCHNESS AGAIN......... REMEMBER... BY FACTS, YOU ARE ACTUALLY QUESTIONING THE MOST OVERALL PRODUCTIVE CLUTCH PLAYER IN THE NBA........... HE DOESNT JUST SCORE, HE REBOUNDS, PASSES AND GETS KEY DEFENSIVE STOPS IN THE CLUTCH AS YOU CAN SEE ABOVE.....

LEBRON IS HUMAN.... SO HE WILL FAIL IN THE CLUTCH.... BUT AS YOU CAN SEE UPSTAIRS... HE OVERALL PREVAILS ON THAT END MORE THAN ANYBODY..... SEASON OR PLAYOFFS.....

YES HE WAS NOT ABLE TO BE OVERALL A SUPERHERO AGAINST THE MAVS IN THE PLAYOFFS IN 3 GAMES...... BUT THAT DOES NOT CHANGE THE FACTS OF LEBRON BEING THE MOST CLUTCH PLAYER.... NO MATTER HOW MUCH YOU WISH FOR IT....

:lol

[GoranDragon]

I see pauk has been ethering haters since 2011.:bowdown: :rockon:

[tpols]

LEBRON 2011 FINALS GAME 1 VS MAVS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3hofAKcqBgc

LEBRON 2011 PLAYOFF CLUTCH PLAYS:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0eDjYYO-rAw

http://static.gamespot.com/uploads/original/1532/15320372/2420772-4041132961-mj-la.gif

[Sharmer]

http://nbasportsnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/12/LeBron-Ringless.jpeg

FAIL :lol

[Leftimage]

What has he done to prove he'll ever get it back? His confidence in those moments is long gone.

:lol

http://static6.businessinsider.com/image/51c3d72569bedd5b5300000d-800-/lebron-james-trophies-nba-finals-2013.jpg

[Sharmer]

Reality check mate!