Sons of Anarchy Season 4

[ConanRulesNBC]

I figured there are enough fans on here to have a discussion about it.

Who watched tonights episode? It looks like the entire club is falling apart unless we're being tricked into believing it like last season and they all come together again at the end.

But I don't know. So now Clay talked Romeo (Danny Trejo, leader of the cartel) into taking out Tara. Unser is trying to protect Tara but I wonder if it's just for her safety or if it's to save both of them? If he can scare off Tara to get rid of the original letters and then perhaps run off with the kids then everything might be fine for now at least.

If we are being tricked again and they're really all into it and have a plan again I'll be more shocked than the season 3 finale.

[Patrick Chewing]

Unser is obviously trying to protect Tara. He knows what Clay is capable of and knows his intentions just from that brief talk they had outside the shop.

I was really worried when I saw someone typing that letter, but then when I saw it was Unser, I knew Tara would be protected.

Only way SAMCRO comes out on top again at the end of the Season is if they double cross the cartel, but that seems way too risky. Juice will eventually rat out the cartel, maybe leading to their arrest and ending the relationship SAMCRO has with them. If this happens, then maybe it forces Clay's hand to deal with Tara himself, and this will probably be how the season ends, with Jax learning of the truth about his father and the truth about what Clay was trying to do.

Seeing as the Clay/Teller thing is the big story behind the show, and how it's all soon coming to a head, I can honestly see this show going at least one more season. Maybe two.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Kurt Sutter said that by the end of season 4 it's going to feel like the end of the series. But he wants it to go to 7 seasons at the most. This is the beginning of the end though.

I wonder if/when Jax finds out about Clay what he'll do. I think breaking Clay's hands and kicking him out of the club will be it. I think that would hurt Clay more than just shooting him. Kicking him out of the only thing he's known. That's only if Clay is stopped before Tara is taken out. If Tara is taken out by the cartel and Jax finds out then Clay is done.

I just wonder how different the show is going to be in seasons 5-7. Will Jax leave the club or if he finds out everything will he stay with Clay gone and finally him and Opie will take the club back and head in the right direction.

It's weird though. When the show started, Jax was questioning Clay and acting more like John Teller but now Jax is way more like Clay than he is JT.

No creepy ATF guy tonight. I really wonder what his role in all of this is going to be.

Oh and the season 4 finale is going to be a two hour show. :rockon:

[ConanRulesNBC]

Also, what is up with Jax and the way he walks and dresses? He looks like some hip hop Eminem type biker. He wears baggy pants and white gym shoes. lol. Everyone else looks like legit bikers except for him. I could maybe understand it in the first couple of seasons since he wasn't really trying to be like the other guys. But it's just ridiculous now.

[Patrick Chewing]

And I hope I'm not alone here, but I was kinda hoping Juice would've gotten popped square in the head for what he did. I liked that guy Miles for some reason. Seemed more the biker type. Juice acts too much like a clown and had guilt written all over his face the past two episodes.

If he was a real man and real 1%'er, he would've told that sheriff to f*ck off

[ConanRulesNBC]

Yeah Juice is another guy who just doesn't look like a legit biker and what he did sucked. I don't like the way his character was written this season. How could he be so stupid to take the drugs and then fall asleep in the grass right near the warehouse? Just too stupid.

They should have at least had him in tonights episode grab the drugs and then ride off and find the sheriff. I know it was too late at that point to try and talk about the situation with the club. He should have done that first.

Like I said maybe there's a plan here though and this is part of a way to get out of their deal with the cartel.

[InspiredLebowski]

I just found out Kurt Sutter plays Otto

[Patrick Chewing]

Yeah Juice is another guy who just doesn't look like a legit biker and what he did sucked. I don't like the way his character was written this season. How could he be so stupid to take the drugs and then fall asleep in the grass right near the warehouse? Just too stupid.

LOL that was stupid as hell. He slept for like 10 hours underneath that tree :lol

As far as Jax goes, that's just his style. I'm sure every biker gang out there has a bunch of members in his same style. There's a few guys I don't think make good bikers, Juice being one of them and Bobby. LOL what season was it where that fat ass Bobby ran off the road and into a ditch?? :oldlol: Or was that Tig??

I also can't stand that fat bastard prospect. Biggest p*ssy I've ever seen, plus he looks like he's right out of high school. I liked the other prospect though. That part where he held the gun up to his head and started screaming....good shit.

[InspiredLebowski]

I also can't stand that fat bastard prospect. Biggest p*ssy I've ever seen, plus he looks like he's right out of high school. I liked the other prospect though. That part where he held the gun up to his head and started screaming....good shit.Seriously, where'd that dude come from? Have I just not been paying attention? I honestly have never noticed him previously.

[Patrick Chewing]

Seriously, where'd that dude come from? Have I just not been paying attention? I honestly have never noticed him previously.

I think Sutter screwed up though, cause that prospect was introduced last season, and apparently more than a year has passed between last season and this one, and he still hasn't been patched yet. I'm no expert on MC rules, but I think he would've been patched by now. Either way, I hope he gets killed off soon by somebody, or at least chokes on a hamburger. I mean c'mon, he's got the curly fro and wears glasses....damn.

[InspiredLebowski]

I think Sutter screwed up though, cause that prospect was introduced last season, and apparently more than a year has passed between last season and this one, and he still hasn't been patched yet. I'm no expert on MC rules, but I think he would've been patched by now. Either way, I hope he gets killed off soon by somebody, or at least chokes on a hamburger. I mean c'mon, he's got the curly fro and wears glasses....damn.No no, not the fat ****, I'm talking about the skinny little Sol Starr from Deadwood looking guy that put the gun to his head and screamed during Russian roulette.

[Applause]

:applause: :applause: :applause: :applause: :applause:

[Patrick Chewing]

No no, not the fat ****, I'm talking about the skinny little Sol Starr from Deadwood looking guy that put the gun to his head and screamed during Russian roulette.

LOL "Ratboy" is his name on the show. His real name is Niko Nikotera. Only been on 3 episodes and was introduced this season as a new prospect. So far I like his role as the borderline lunatic.

[Saintsfan1992]

Good question would Juice being half black get him kciked out of the sons??

[ConanRulesNBC]

lmao... the fat prospect is so pathetic it's kind of funny. He should not be in a MC. He looks like he should be stocking shelves at a Toys R Us or mall security.

I want to see him in action. He looks like he'll get his ass kicked. Though he did show some balls in tonights episode pulling that trigger.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Good question would Juice being half black get him kciked out of the sons??

It's hard to tell with SOA. Kurt Sutter said that he wanted to go in that direction this season because race does play a big factor in MC's. But it's hard to tell with SAMCRO.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Oh and I also read that Sutter has said that he might not be following Hamlet anymore. He said he followed that the first season especially but now that SOA has gotten so big he's taking it in a different direction. Which I like because now it's totally unpredictable.

[Saintsfan1992]

It's hard to tell with SOA. Kurt Sutter said that he wanted to go in that direction this season because race does play a big factor in MC's. But it's hard to tell with SAMCRO.

Im sure SAMCRO would not really give a damn.

at least since they have had so much history (juice n' crew)

I mean they also work with Hispanics blacks irish asian etc...

so I dont really see a big deal.

but organizations around them might.

idk how that Biker life style operates.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Sutter was saying how some MC's are open to working with other clubs of different races but that doesn't mean they're open to other races being in their own club.

[Saintsfan1992]

Sutter was saying how some MC's are open to working with other clubs of different races but that doesn't mean they're open to other races being in their own club.

seems about right.

[Kobe Jnr]

I think Chibs has suspicion that juice took the coke. I like Clay, but that guy would kill anyone just to save his ass, he doesn't care who it is.

I didn't see miles death coming, juice popped a few bullets with that glock.

[Bless Mathews]

HA's are some cool white boys.

They were the only ones that guaranteed delivery pre 9-11.

[NBAller]

Can't wait till Jax tears Clays head off. Also props to old man for popping Otto.

can't blame otto and jax for tapping that porn star......she's easily the best looking chick in this tv show .......then jax ruined it.

oh and juice turned out to be a retard. thought his character was smarter than what tonight showed.

[NBAller]

Good question would Juice being half black get him kciked out of the sons??

pretty sure it'll get him killed.

[Jailblazers7]

Smart movve by Unser with that note. I think he is the most likely candidate to get killed in this season. I hope he tells Jax about Clay soon and Jax goes on a rampage.

Great episode tho, this season has been awesome.

[Thorpesaurous]

I coulda swore there was already another thread on this, but whatever.

This season has been spectacular. I really did feel like the show got a little stagnant through season two and most of season three, but after last season's incredible season finale, the show has really hit a new gear.

A few of the thoughts I've had from the previous thread:

I haven't seen much if any evidence that the club would be opposed to Juice being half black. If memory serves there's been some latino members in other chapters. And I was under the impression Juice was latino anyway. But it was a nice touch having Juice go to Chibs for his opinion since Chibs had the black wife. But between working with other races, marrying other races, it's like this hardlined race rule just sort of came out of nowhere as a motive to extort one of the characters. And it just doesn't make a ton of sense. He could have easily gone to the gang and said he just found out that he was half black.

Generally speaking, the acting is pretty good. But man Jax is sometimes tough to swallow. The pouty lip smacking and exagerated strutting is just out of hand.

Ron Pearlman and Katie Segal are both spectacular. And one of the issues I felt the show has had in the past is that a lot of the other characters have been pretty one dimensional. But this season has seen a lot of fleshing out. Opie already had some depth to him. But now we're getting Piney developed into a fuller character. Bobby Elvis is being fleshed out even more. And last night you got a lot more on Tig, who's been little more than a flat psychopath for most of the series.

One thing that sticks out to me all the time is that they're rebel outlaws, but they all are always certain to wear their helmets. I'm sure it's related to some legal issue with the network, but it always strikes me as odd to see them all about to rip off angry and take that extra time to strap on their helmet.

And to me, it had felt to me like it will be difficult for the show to continue much further. The Clay JT dynamic has always been the underlying story of the show, and now as it's being brought to the forefront, I'm afraid how the show will carry on once it's resolved, and it's come to far this year to not get some kind of resolution. I could concievably see another season next year where Jax, and Opie, as a result of Clay coming down on his father, sort of sucede from the crew and you get a year of civil war. Otherwise they're gonna have to come up with a complete stunner to keep stringing me along ... like Tara and Piney both somehow dieing and taking their secret to the grave, and their deaths being misdirected toward someone else, ala Opie wife.

[B]

The helmet thing is for realism I suppose. California law is anyone and everyone must wear a helmet while riding a motorcycle even bikers.

[Thorpesaurous]

[QUOTE=B

[B]

The seem okay about not following those murder, gun running, and drug smuggling laws.

It's not a big deal, it just doesn't look right to me.
Well when you're a murdering gun running drug smuggler probably not a good idea to draw unwanted attention. Ha

[ConanRulesNBC]

This episode might have been the turning point of the entire series.

There is no way Jax doesn't find out the truth next week about everything.

[Patrick Chewing]

Damn, I think that branch broke off.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Yeah, I think Juice will come clean to the club and the club won't even hurt him or even kick him out but use this to their advantage against Roosevelt and Potter.

[Patrick Chewing]

I knew Potter was dirty, I just didn't know how. Roosevelt may end up turning on him and helping out the club someway, somehow.


And lol, if I was Gemma, I wouldn't want that fat nerd prospect watching my house. :lol

[ConanRulesNBC]

I was hoping that Potter wasn't going to become another typical ATF agent like Kohn and Stahl. His character seemed much more interesting at the beginning of the season.

I think there's still more to him but he's definitely a piece of crap for what he's doing to Roosevelt and Juice.

[Patrick Chewing]

I love how the level of violence is just right in the show. Like when they broke into that Mexican's apartment, I wasn't expecting the other to come out from the back room. Then he blasts the lady on the couch and gets blasted in return.

And yeah, Clay is slowly losing his power here. He's making enemies, and they are all inside the club it seems. He's neck deep in this cartel shit and he basically hired a hitman to eliminate Tara. If he isn't dead or out of the club and far, far away by the end of the season, then I don't know what's up.

[Jailblazers7]

Another awesome episode. Next week looks like it will be insane. It took some serious balls for Bobby to challenge Clay.

[Thorpesaurous]

Clay will have to divert the blame for this stuff to someone else, just like he did with Opie's wife in blaming the 69ers.

I could see him rallying the club around the notion of this competitor cartel coming after them. Admitting some mistake in getting involved, and keeping his history hidden away for some time further. I fully expect Piney to get it soon.

I sort of like the idea of Juice dieing here. It makes the show feel more dangerous, as if fewer people are safe. But I have a feeling he'll somehow survive. Chibs and Tig may make it there just in time. Then they'll have to question where all his guilt is coming from.

Impetious move by Bobby, albeit ballsy. The only person he has to know will side with him is Piney. I can't imagine someone voting against him for the simple fact of retribution should he not be ousted.

[Jailblazers7]

If Jax were to campaign for a vote, then I would see no problem witth him winning. Bobby, Opie, Piney, and Jax would be 4 and Chibbs always sides with Jax. I doubt that happens tho, its likely that Jax will support Clay's leadership because of their deal.

[Kobe Jnr]

I can't see it happening either. I can't picture Clay as the VP. I don't think he could handle it..

So a member can ask to vote for a new leader just like that? Any time they want?

[Thorpesaurous]

Yeah, I think Juice will come clean to the club and the club won't even hurt him or even kick him out but use this to their advantage against Roosevelt and Potter.


It's almost the same exact storyline as before. Potter is Kahn. Roosevelt is becoming Unser. And Juice is in the same role Gemma was. And last time it was Jax doing the manipulating, that character hasn't been introduced yet.

They're of differing levels of their roles, like Roosevelt isn't nearly as sympathetic as Unser was, but they're still kind of falling into the same layout.

[ConanRulesNBC]

There is some discussion going on about what if John Teller is still alive?

[ConanRulesNBC]

From recent blog posted by Kurt Sutter:


As I close in on writing the last three episodes of the season, I am beginning to clearly see the final act of Sons. This awareness took me back to the Hamlet archetype that inspired the show and I'm trying to envision how much of the series will eventually come back around to that homage.

Some. I think.

There are big character shifts in season four. We knock people off the fence and we make them choose. The finale for season four will feel like a series end in a lot of ways, but the truth is, it will create a new beginning. The beginning of the end. Season five and six, if I'm lucky enough to get, will explore that new dynamic. Season seven will be all about the fall of heroes and the rise of men.

As far as potential shit I may actually steal from the Bard, it comes down to themes. I will definitely continue to play out the ghost of Hamlet's father theme, the conflicted son theme and the plotting mother theme. As well as some others. And there may even be a few narrative lifts from the Shakespearean playbook as well.
I won't spoil those. I can tell you this, the show doesn't end in a pool of blood with all players dead.

That will happen in season six... just kidding. I think.

And in light of my recent social media extraction, I thought I'd leave you with this from Act 1, scene 3:

"Give thy thoughts no tongue."

[ConanRulesNBC]

Something just doesn't add up with Clay and the letters and everything. I mean you would think that if he thought he was in any sort of real danger with Jax possibly finding out about the letters that he would run off. There's no way he can think he can just have Tara get taken out and Jax won't suspect something.

[dkmwise]

Something just doesn't add up with Clay and the letters and everything. I mean you would think that if he thought he was in any sort of real danger with Jax possibly finding out about the letters that he would run off. There's no way he can think he can just have Tara get taken out and Jax won't suspect something.

If Tara does get taken out then Clay needs to take out Unser and probably Piney as well. Unser will not keep quiet about that and Piney after already losing his daughter in law would not stand for it either. Really now that I think of it after everyone finding out about Donna, the whole club may be suspicous of Clay and if they think he purposely had Tara killed I don't think even Tig would stand by him.

Clay is not the type to ever run off though, and even if he did, he's got no where to go and nothing else to do. At least if Jax ran for somethign he could take Tara with him but Clay couldn't let all this get out and then expect Jemma to follow him, she would ultimately side with Jax over Clay.

[dkmwise]

Clay will have to divert the blame for this stuff to someone else, just like he did with Opie's wife in blaming the 69ers.

I could see him rallying the club around the notion of this competitor cartel coming after them. Admitting some mistake in getting involved, and keeping his history hidden away for some time further. I fully expect Piney to get it soon.

I sort of like the idea of Juice dieing here. It makes the show feel more dangerous, as if fewer people are safe. But I have a feeling he'll somehow survive. Chibs and Tig may make it there just in time. Then they'll have to question where all his guilt is coming from.
Impetious move by Bobby, albeit ballsy. The only person he has to know will side with him is Piney. I can't imagine someone voting against him for the simple fact of retribution should he not be ousted.

I really thought Juice had died until reading the episode description where it says 'Juice is cornered by Linc Potter's scheme and attempts to commit suicide by the end of the episode.'

Also, if you look up the actor who plays Juice, Theo Rossi, he has no other projects going on right now and usually if someone is being killed off in a show for good you can already see them working on a new show or something.

[Patrick Chewing]

New episode in 2 hours. I wouldn't be surprised if Clay hired those Mexicans to shoot up up the Mayans just to make it seem as if "another" cartel is pissed off at them, hence finding an excuse to take Tara out of the picture.

[Applause]

New episode in 2 hours. I wouldn't be surprised if Clay hired those Mexicans to shoot up up the Mayans just to make it seem as if "another" cartel is pissed off at them, hence finding an excuse to take Tara out of the picture.




Location: California

:applau:(

[ConanRulesNBC]

All I have to say is... HOLY CRAP! I did not see that coming.

[sunsfan1357]

Can someone explain what happened in the first 15 minutes, in white text perhaps? I started watching when the sheriff went to the club and let them know he knew about the threat on Tara's life.

[Patrick Chewing]

I am very upset with myself. Passed out right before the show started and caught the last 5 mins.

Downloading it currently so I can re-watch, but yeah, wow.

[Thorpesaurous]

That felt inevitable to me.

So what's next. Opie knows Jax was going up there to check in on Piney. Gemma knows Clay wasn't where he said he was.

Do they play this into suspicion of Jax from Opie? Does Jax's denial make Gemma question where Clay really was that night?

[dkmwise]

That felt inevitable to me.

So what's next. Opie knows Jax was going up there to check in on Piney. Gemma knows Clay wasn't where he said he was.

Do they play this into suspicion of Jax from Opie? Does Jax's denial make Gemma question where Clay really was that night?

Good questions. I kept wondering if Clay was going to try to clean up the scene and disappear Piney or leave him there and spin it off like the Cartel got to him. Or maybe even cut Piney's head off since that seems to be the cartels style.

Clay is entering dangerous territory though. In the past when he has done stuff like kill Donna at least he could justify his actions to people, now he is just doing things solely for him, I don't even think Tig will back him up on any of this.

All around good episode though. A lot of action while keeping Charming involved as well with the fundraiser.

So Whats going to happen with Juice? You can tell all along that Chibs has known something is up with him. Chibs would probably be the most likely to forgive Juice since he almost gave up info to the Feds in season 3.

[california123]

:bowdown: :bowdown: clay is a straight goon, ***** fuked up opies life

[Patrick Chewing]

Just watched it. Best episode of the season so far. Shocked at what Clay did, but there's so much chaos now between the club, the town, and the cartel that I don't expect any less at this point. Next week should be good.

[Applause]

Just watched it. Best episode of the season so far. Shocked at what Clay did, but there's so much chaos now between the club, the town, and the cartel that I don't expect any less at this point. Next week should be good.
:applause:

[Positive]

Good questions. I kept wondering if Clay was going to try to clean up the scene and disappear Piney or leave him there and spin it off like the Cartel got to him. Or maybe even cut Piney's head off since that seems to be the cartels style.
Yeah, I think this is it. If you noticed after Clay killed him, he took Piney's blood and wrote LS on an old club photo. I'm pretty sure that LS is the same cartel they're said to be at war with.

[dkmwise]

Yeah, I think this is it. If you noticed after Clay killed him, he took Piney's blood and wrote LS on an old club photo. I'm pretty sure that LS is the same cartel they're said to be at war with.

Oh thats right I forgot about that.

Some of the club members are going to realize it wasn't the cartel. That is just not their style. To break the door in and then wrestle with Piney, grab the shotgun that Piney is always carrying around there, and then shoot him with his own gun. Those cartel guys are surgical, they would send multiple guys there and would use their own guns. Well, they probably wouldn't waste their time going after one alone old guy anyway, and defiently wouldn't just kill him and leave him, they need to put on a show with it.

[ConanRulesNBC]

I keep going back and forth on whether or not this will be Clay's last season. There's just too much crap he's gotten himself into and even if he does have Tara taken out, Gemma and Unser know what's going on. I think it comes down to Gemma. If she gets tired of Clay then you know he's gone by the end of this season.

But at the same time what is Sutter going to do with 3 more seasons if he ends the Jax/Clay feud this season? I think at the most there would be enough drama for one season (final season) without Clay and have the season be about Jax and Opie finally taking control of the club and taking it in their own direction.

I just really wonder what is going to happen the next 5 episodes this season and if/how Sutter can keep Clay around after this season.

[dkmwise]

I keep going back and forth on whether or not this will be Clay's last season. There's just too much crap he's gotten himself into and even if he does have Tara taken out, Gemma and Unser know what's going on. I think it comes down to Gemma. If she gets tired of Clay then you know he's gone by the end of this season.

But at the same time what is Sutter going to do with 3 more seasons if he ends the Jax/Clay feud this season? I think at the most there would be enough drama for one season (final season) without Clay and have the season be about Jax and Opie finally taking control of the club and taking it in their own direction.

I just really wonder what is going to happen the next 5 episodes this season and if/how Sutter can keep Clay around after this season.

I agree, if this isn't Clay's last season then it's because of a cliffhanger and he gets wrapped up next season.

They have already made it very clear that Clay can't stay in the club more than a year since he won't be able to ride due to his grip and he says he won't have surgery on his hands. So his time is clearly limited, and it's doubtful they will just have him cash out and walk away and retire peacefully.

So I think the main question is just how will he go out? Right now there are so many people who you could see taking him out. Obviously Jax over JT or Tara, Opie over Donna or Piney, possibly Gemma for a number of reasons. Bobby is mad at him now, Tig has a strange thing with Gemma that could somehow lead to a beef with Clay, you've got the Cartel thing and the Indian Reserve guys that Clay lied to.

But with Clay gone they will need someone else to step up fill in the show. They have made references that JT may actually not be dead.

[ConanRulesNBC]

These next 5 episodes are going to be very interesting.

[NBAller]

:bowdown: :bowdown: clay is a straight goon, ***** fuked up opies life

That's actually a good point. Clay did murder two people close to Opie, plus he has a hit out on Tara. He supposedly killed JT. He's being challenged for his President position. He's ruining a lot of peoples lives, including his own.

Now I understand why he wants this money from the cartel, he's thinking about disappearing IMO.

Also the Piney thing was expected but once Clay left his house, he had me thinking pretty hard. then he aggressively knocked Piney to the floor using the door.....at that point I was sure in my original thoughts. He had me guessing though, pretty smart.

Clay doesn't seem to listen to Gemma either, which would cause problems between them two and she knows a lot about what Clay did, which could only further hurt him when it comes to the club.

Anyway seeing as Clay already took 1/2 of the people he wants dead out, he's after Tara now, who is about to be on the run.

I hope Opie, Jax finds out about Clay....getting tired of seeing him in the show though he kind of does keep things interesting in a twisted way.

[NBAller]

These next 5 episodes are going to be very interesting.


Yeah. I wish they would have them twice a week instead of once a week. :cry:

[Kobe Jnr]

I don't think they'll get rid of Clay this season, I think he'll go towards the end of the show , by jax or Opie.

I like Clay, does what he wants, and doesn't care what anyone thinks. Ron's a great actor also.

You must've seen Clay killing Piney. When Piney first went up to Clay about those letters, and said "get out of the drug business, with the cartel, or I'll expose you" you knew Clay would finish him.

Love this show, favourite tv at the moment.

[Patrick Chewing]

If I'm Chief Unser....i'm getting the hell out of Dodge cause I'm next

[dkmwise]

If I'm Chief Unser....i'm getting the hell out of Dodge cause I'm next

Yeah, as soon as he burned those papers you knew he was in trouble. Then leaving the note for Tara and telling the Sherrifs about it. Sorry Wayne, but it's over.

[ConanRulesNBC]

So Clay blew it. He had Gemma talk to Tara who really did seem serious about not telling Jax about the letters. Gemma and Unser helped cover up what happened with Piney and Clay still made the phone call at the end.

But now it's going to blow back in his face because Jax went with Tara.

Also, I can't believe Juice would agree to work with the sheriff and Potter after coming clean to Chibbs. Though, I don't think Juice told Chibbs about his father.

4 more episodes left.

Will Tara survive?
Will Clay survive?
Will Jax survive?
Will Juice survive?
How will they get out of the deal with the cartel?

[Patrick Chewing]

Doesn't make sense for Clay to pick up that phone and call. It's worse for Clay. Jax will hate him even more thinking that it was his coke deal that had Tara killed.

[ConanRulesNBC]

The scene where Jax threatened Clay about talking like that about Tara reminded me of season 2 when Clay threatened Jax about mentioning Donna. The roles have been reversed. When Clay threatened Jax he was still in complete control of the club. Now the entire club would back Jax over Clay.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Also, what is up with Potter? Sutter is really keeping him still sort of a mystery. First off he looks a lot like JT. Second, until tonight he kept his identity a secret from all the club members. Now when he was talking to Juice he was saying his main concern is with the IRA and not about the club. The way he even said it made it seem like he almost wants the club to go back to being a regular MC once they get out of the gun business.

[Applause]

The scene where Jax threatened Clay about talking like that about Tara reminded me of season 2 when Clay threatened Jax about mentioning Donna. The roles have been reversed. When Clay threatened Jax he was still in complete control of the club. Now the entire club would back Jax over Clay.

:applause:




Also, what is up with Potter? Sutter is really keeping him still sort of a mystery. First off he looks a lot like JT.

4:00 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3eF5WPzKhQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

[Kobe Jnr]

Dammit Clay. His solution to problems is just killing people. He could've called the guy to cancel the hit, but damn, I hope it doesn't go through. I don't want clay to die, when theres 2 or 3 seasons left..

[ConanRulesNBC]

4:00 (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X3eF5WPzKhQ&feature=youtube_gdata_player)

Interesting. So it was just a coincidence that Potter and John Teller look a little like each other. Unless Sutter was just saying that. I'll be a bit disappointed if Potter just turns out to be another ATF.

I read this in a recent TVGuide interview with Ron Perlman:

On Clay's recent actions:


"I love trying to find deep in my soul where the justifications for these horrific actions are," Perlman continues. "Because only in that way will the audience know whose side to take. It's not just black and white. There's a sinew behind it and blood and sweat and DNA. ... I think that if we did our job right, the audience will say, 'Holy s--- man, I'm not sure this guy had any choice.'"


On this season feeling like it's the final season:


"I'm actually blown away by the fact that we are in Season 4 and we're doing s--- that I only imagined would be dealt with when we were winding everything up," Perlman says. "I can't believe that [Sutter] has the chutzpah to deal with this now and feels that's there plenty of room to top this. He's reshuffling the deck and changing the dynamic of everything. We have the best of all possible worlds here: We have something incredibly climatic, and then we have room for the reinvention of the saga."

[dkmwise]

So Clay blew it. He had Gemma talk to Tara who really did seem serious about not telling Jax about the letters. Gemma and Unser helped cover up what happened with Piney and Clay still made the phone call at the end.

But now it's going to blow back in his face because Jax went with Tara.

Also, I can't believe Juice would agree to work with the sheriff and Potter after coming clean to Chibbs. Though, I don't think Juice told Chibbs about his father.

4 more episodes left.

Will Tara survive?
Will Clay survive?
Will Jax survive?
Will Juice survive?
How will they get out of the deal with the cartel?

Man, when Gemma found Piney and then brought Unser in and Unser said he was going to call the Sherriff on Clay and then Gemma started agreeing with Unser on Clay being a wounded animal, I really though Gemma was about to kill Unser. I guess either way it's only a matter of time until he gets killed by someone.

When Juice was walkign in that secret room with Potter I was hoping he had a knife on him and was just going to take out Potter since he doesn't care about his life anymore anyway and he really has no way out here. Juice's only hope is if the Sherriff finds out that Potter is planning to screw him over too and they can somehow work together against Potter. I really hope Sutter finds a way to keep Juice around, I like his character as the intel/non-motorcycle riding biker.

Clay has to know that if Tara is killed now Gemma and Unser will definetly know it's him and Jax may suspect it too. Not sure if Clay was calling the guy tell him to kill Tata or to let it go, but if they do try to kill Tara now and Jax is with her when it happens he might be able to stop it and then find out from the hitman who hired him.

[dkmwise]

The scene where Jax threatened Clay about talking like that about Tara reminded me of season 2 when Clay threatened Jax about mentioning Donna. The roles have been reversed. When Clay threatened Jax he was still in complete control of the club. Now the entire club would back Jax over Clay.

I agree with that. At this point I'm not even sure that Tig is completely behind Clay.

[dkmwise]

Need some help from my fellow SOA fans. I watched this weeks episode off of itunes so I didn't get to see the previews for next week. Can someone give a quick summary of what they showed on the preview?

Thanks

[ConanRulesNBC]

In the preview for next week it shows Jax telling Gemma that he's taking Tara and they're going to have a little family vacation. Clay meets with the cartel to go over more plans about Tara and then Clay asks Gemma where Jax is and she tells him he's with Tara and I think Clay tries to stop Romeo but it's too late. At least it looks that way in the preview.

[Patrick Chewing]

I really hope Sutter finds a way to keep Juice around, I like his character as the intel/non-motorcycle riding biker.



We differ here. To me, he's the weakest link of the MC. Not even Clay's endorsement of the M.O.M. patch was able to turn him straight. He's on very thin ice right now with both sides, law and outlaw.

[NBAller]

Juiced assaulted the officer. He's either going to pay for that in jail/prison, or they'll use it against him (ie do this, and you're free). But of course based on previous events with Potter, or whoever that agent that's hidings name is will most likely screw him over on that, should Juice take that option (if he has a option).

I think Gemma's up to something as well as far as Unser goes. She basically seduced him into not reporting Clay in. But, Unser did get Gemma to leave the house so I'm not sure what he'll do in there, and obviously neither will Gemma. Glad to see that he knows Clay's doing no good, though. Probably means he'll die.

Bobby's trying to convince Jax to be the leader of the club which is great for the Club, not so much his married life with Tara considering that's not what she wants for him. So basically nothing much has changed between them since they were first together in Season 1 or 2 besides children and their will to stay together through thick and thin.

I'm also not sure what Potter is doing with the guy that's in prison for life by skewing the story of what actually happend..I mean what can he do in there? Only thing I can think of is set the club up when one of the members come in to visit him.

It's also clear who the other cartel is that has been sending bodies to the clubs front door this whole time. The second man in charge who's been a part of all the ambush attacks on the Niners gave it away when he said "I'll gun down your whole crew and send their bodies to your mothers front door". Doesn't that sound like what happend to the club, twice? One time in a place where only the club and the cartel knew where they were (the second truck took off before the ambush happend).

That's all I want to type out for now. 5 more days till next episode :sleeping

[Jailblazers7]

I agree with that. At this point I'm not even sure that Tig is completely behind Clay.

Tig has been kind of silent the last couple episodes other than his daughter coming to town. I expect him to do some violent shit here pretty soon.

[LedBalls]

@sutterink
will have some BIG NEWS about the end of the season coming out today. we are just crossing the F's and dotting the K's. more to come...



@sutterink
We will release the info about the finale on Monday. It's good news that involves a parrot and a fire hose. Talk amongst yourselves...

I think it might be a 2-hour season finale. :rockon:

[ConanRulesNBC]

I read that it's going to be 14 episodes this season instead of the regular 13. :rockon:

What an intense episode tonight! I can't believe it came down to Clay beating the crap out of Gemma. I thought the only way for Clay to make it out of this season was that he would still have Gemma behind him. But not now. That scene was hard to watch but just shows how great actors Ron Perlman and Katey Sagal are. Those two make this show.

Maggie Siff (Tara) was also incredible tonight during that scene at the hospital (WHY DIDN'T SHE TELL JAX ABOUT THE LETTERS??). I felt so bad for her hearing about how she might not be a surgeon if her hand is that messed up.

It looks like Roosevelt is going to help Juice.

Jax finally told Opie that his plan is to leave. But there's no way Jax leaves with everything going on right now.

Next week is a 90 minute special. Also, Drea de Matteo (Wendy) shows up!

[sunsfan1357]

A friend of mine says Ron Perlman signed on for next season too, but I can't find anything on it. Does anyone else know if its true?

[Jailblazers7]

The hospital scene with Tara was pretty heart wrentching. I think her hand might result in Jax staying in the club because now they wont be able to support the kids on her salary as a surgeon.

It looks like Unser is going to bring Clay down. He might be forced to tell Opie everything when he finds him at his Dads cabin and I'm sure Opie would have no trouble taking out Clay after all the shit he has done to ruin his life.

No clue how the shit with Potter will end up tho.

[Kobe Jnr]

Jax has to take him out. Clay docked up big time, sad that he will die.. Most probably. I liked him..

Cartel is ruthless, couldn't they take back the hit?

[Thorpesaurous]

Yeah, the Cartel's insistence that Tara's a threat to them because of some unknown reason to them, is weird. It's like a strange effort to try to use this as a cause for action, while at the same time keeping the source a secret from the audience.

But it was a great episode.

[Patrick Chewing]

If I'm Jax, I'm on the warpath now. It's obvious he's no longer committed to the long term goals of the club, but I guess Sutter wants us to wait till the final episode to see Clay get put down by the "Son". I would've gone straight to Clay and continued on with that vote to demote Clay for putting them all in the mess that they're in now.

[Jailblazers7]

If I'm Jax, I'm on the warpath now. It's obvious he's no longer committed to the long term goals of the club, but I guess Sutter wants us to wait till the final episode to see Clay get put down by the "Son". I would've gone straight to Clay and continued on with that vote to demote Clay for putting them all in the mess that they're in now.

Well, apparently he is on the warpath since they showed him shooting bazookahs (sp? lol) and shit next episode. :oldlol:

[NBAller]

Yeah, the Cartel's insistence that Tara's a threat to them because of some unknown reason to them, is weird. It's like a strange effort to try to use this as a cause for action, while at the same time keeping the source a secret from the audience.

But it was a great episode.

Clay's the source. Told them Tara as info on them and needs to be taken out.

[ConanRulesNBC]

A friend of mine says Ron Perlman signed on for next season too, but I can't find anything on it. Does anyone else know if its true?

That would be awesome. But I have no clue how they could keep Clay around after this season. But the show won't be the same without Perlman.

[dkmwise]

That would be awesome. But I have no clue how they could keep Clay around after this season. But the show won't be the same without Perlman.

Theres no way Clay stays around at SAMCRO considering everything with Jax and Gemma. Jax has almost everyone on his side anyway, and when Tig sees what happened to Gemma Clay has no one left backing him. At the same time I can't really see Sutter getting rid of Ron Perlman, he is a great actor and a huge part of the show. Is it possible he goes to another charter, maybe SAMBEL? Or maybe season 5 is the club chasing down Clay all season?

[dkmwise]

Well, apparently he is on the warpath since they showed him shooting bazookahs (sp? lol) and shit next episode. :oldlol:

Damn, I missed the preview for next week. Anyone want to fill me in on what else they showed?

[dkmwise]

The hospital scene with Tara was pretty heart wrentching. I think her hand might result in Jax staying in the club because now they wont be able to support the kids on her salary as a surgeon.
It looks like Unser is going to bring Clay down. He might be forced to tell Opie everything when he finds him at his Dads cabin and I'm sure Opie would have no trouble taking out Clay after all the shit he has done to ruin his life.

No clue how the shit with Potter will end up tho.

that is the first thing I thought of when Tara messed her hand up. Now Jax won't even have the option to leave since Tara can't support the family.

[dkmwise]

Where have Happy and Kozik been for the last 3-4 episodes?

[Patrick Chewing]

Where have Happy and Kozik been for the last 3-4 episodes?


Happy's still around. He was in the episode before last I believe. Don't know Kozik's reason for not being around other than his character really doesn't fit into the story right now, but he's in next week's preview so there ya go.

[dkmwise]

Happy's still around. He was in the episode before last I believe. Don't know Kozik's reason for not being around other than his character really doesn't fit into the story right now, but he's in next week's preview so there ya go.

Oh thats right, Happy was with them when they confronted the Niners. I guess it must have just been this week he wasn't around. I know before they said Kozig had to go up north for something but I don't know why he'd be gone for so long and they seemed to really force him into the SAMCRO charter last year out of nowhere and now he's just gone again.

[Jailblazers7]

Damn, I missed the preview for next week. Anyone want to fill me in on what else they showed?

Opie catches Unser at Pineys cabin and Unser confronts Clay.

[ConanRulesNBC]

New prediction: Clay shoots himself in Tara's hospital room.

Or... Clay confronts Tara about the letters and confesses everything and tells her he put the hit out on her but will be there himself to protect her as long as she doesn't tell Jax about the letters.

I'm not sure how Gemma expects Unser to talk Opie out of going after Clay though.

Crazy good show tonight. I see what Sutter means now when he says the end of this season will feel like it's the last. The entire club is being broken up.

[Fawker]

This shit looking faker and faker as ****. Man soap opera shit. This is the last season. It has been overblown and too much carried away.

[Jailblazers7]

I think that episode crossed the line as far as realism goes for the show. Just way too over the top with that cartel fight.

The in-club drama is good but I'm ready for the cartels to be phased out.

[sunsfan1357]

I think that episode crossed the line as far as realism goes for the show. Just way too over the top with that cartel fight.

The in-club drama is good but I'm ready for the cartels to be phased out.
Those are my thoughts as well. One minute you have some serious drama with Tara and Jax's ex lady coming through to the hospital, then all of a sudden there's land mines blowing people up and RPGs being shot out of nowhere. Kind of lame.

[Patrick Chewing]

I think that episode crossed the line as far as realism goes for the show. Just way too over the top with that cartel fight.

The in-club drama is good but I'm ready for the cartels to be phased out.

The same could've been said about a show like 24, yet people ate that shit up and it was a pretty awesome show too.

[Tarik One]

I think that episode crossed the line as far as realism goes for the show. Just way too over the top with that cartel fight.

The in-club drama is good but I'm ready for the cartels to be phased out.


Not even MacGyver or Steven Seagal could have avoided so many near death situations. :(

[ConanRulesNBC]

How was it over the top? The Cartel are ex-Military with so many top of the line weapons. There was nothing over the top about it at all. The Sons had to bring out the big guns for that fight.

It's not the last season either. They're going to 7 seasons.

[Patrick Chewing]

How was it over the top? The Cartel are ex-Military with so many top of the line weapons. There was nothing over the top about it at all. The Sons had to bring out the big guns for that fight.

It's not the last season either. They're going to 7 seasons.

LOL some people need to read up on some of the shit real biker gangs have been involved in. A couple RPG blasts in some abandoned cartel-controlled woods isn't out of the ordinary.

Besides, the Sons lost Kozik who was on the up and up with the club.

If Clay isn't dead by next episode, then I don't know how the hell they can extend that story.

[Applause]

How was it over the top? The Cartel are ex-Military with so many top of the line weapons. There was nothing over the top about it at all. The Sons had to bring out the big guns for that fight.

It's not the last season either. They're going to 7 seasons.


:applause: :applause: :applause:

[Jailblazers7]

It just didn't fit well with the history of the show imo. It just seemed like explosions for the sake of explosions. But hey that's just me.

[ConanRulesNBC]

That's because they were dealing with the Cartel. Before they've only dealt with other MC's, ATF, the Irish, the Niners, the Russians, the Mayans, the Nords. So it didn't fit with any of those. But the Cartel is some serious sh*t.

[Jailblazers7]

I understand the Cartels are an escalation of everything the gang has dealt with in the past but it still didn't feel authentic in the context of the show for me. That's just for me tho I'm sure it didn't bother most people.

[InspiredLebowski]

Opie is Berteir from Remember The Titans. That blows my mind.

[Thorpesaurous]

Opie being Bertier gets me every time too. I think about it all the time for some reason. And I for some reason constantly want to tell people that. Only to find out that almost no one really knows her Bertier is well enough to give a shit. I mean that transformation from that movie is at least as big a jump as Hayden Pentieri going from the smart mouth little girl to a smoking hot diva. And the only other thing I can think of the guy in is some WWII era movie and I don't even remember which one.

I can at least see the point that that last battle was a little out of place. And to me it wasn't even out of place in terms of context for what happened. It just didn't look right. The distance didn't look right. The explosions looked too TVish, if anyone gets my meaning. Even stuff as little as the posture of the guys holding the weapons just felt out of place. It was more a directing issue to me, but it felt like a directing issue because the scene was sort of shoehorned in.

I will say, for the shows I watch, and I don't watch Mad Men or Breaking Bad, but I do watch a lot of highly regarded shows, since last years season finale, this has been the best show I've watched. I feel like it's better than Boardwalk over that time span, which is no knock on Boardwalk. It's had some flaws that I've mentioned in previous threads on it, like the supporting characters have seemed a little one note in the past, but it's addressed to some degree almost everything. Even the stuff that I feel is a little hokey, is at least true to world they've assembled.

[Big_Dogg]

Opie is Berteir from Remember The Titans. That blows my mind.

:wtf: That just blew my mind, I had no idea.

[Jailblazers7]

Thorpe pretty much explained exactly what I felt about the Cartel fight. If it was directed and shot better I probably wouldn't have felt like it was so out of place. It just didn't feel right.

And holy shit I never made the connection that Opie is Bertier until now.

You should def watch Mad Men tho Thorpe. It lives up to the hype.

[glidedrxlr22]

The cartel fight, while cool, didn't seem as realistic as it could've been because I never felt like Clay, Jax, Chibs or any of the main Sons was ever truly in danger. C'mon I mean Kozick is gone for a few episodes and then they wipe him out?! Who's next? Happy?!.....again...not one of the truly main guys.

Oh and the stupidity of Tara is beyond me. Why did she jack up her hand more?! While she has raised Abel, she must realize what feelings Abel's mom has for wanting to see him. I mean it's not like Abel is 20 and his mom wants back into his life. His mom doesn't want to take the kid away.

[NBAller]

The cartel fight, while cool, didn't seem as realistic as it could've been because I never felt like Clay, Jax, Chibs or any of the main Sons was ever truly in danger. C'mon I mean Kozick is gone for a few episodes and then they wipe him out?! Who's next? Happy?!.....again...not one of the truly main guys.

Oh and the stupidity of Tara is beyond me. Why did she jack up her hand more?! While she has raised Abel, she must realize what feelings Abel's mom has for wanting to see him. I mean it's not like Abel is 20 and his mom wants back into his life. His mom doesn't want to take the kid away.

I think it's because the more jacked up her hands are the more she's able to be a stay at home mom. Now that Abels mom is back, there's 'competition'. So she purposely damaged her hand more allowing her to stay in the kids lives. Even if that's wrong, keep in mind it's all drama anyway.

[NBAller]

"Nothing more dangerous than a guy that already knows he's dead".

Seems like even Clay knows he's going to be taken out.

[Patrick Chewing]

"Nothing more dangerous than a guy that already knows he's dead".

Seems like even Clay knows he's going to be taken out.

LOL nooo man he was referring to Chief Unser's cancer

[ConanRulesNBC]

He was talking to and about Unser but also about himself at the same time. Clay doesn't have any allies left besides the Cartel who couldn't care less about him if he wasn't the Pres of SAMCRO.

Does anyone else feel that the way Ron Perlman has played Clay that he's almost the Darth Vader of TV? I can only picture Perlman pulling this off. I hated Stahl, the Nords, Zoebelle. I hate Clay too but it's like Darth Vader where you love to hate him. I know he has to go... eventually. I just don't want it to be this season.

[NBAller]

LOL nooo man he was referring to Chief Unser's cancer

Dude, he killed Opies wife and his dad. He knows if Opie finds out that he'll have problems. He killed Jaxs dad, and had a hit out on Tara, when Jax finds out he'll have another problem. He also knows that Tig left the club because of his fight with Gemma and other reasons. His character isn't stupid, he knows his time is coming soon. Hell, even Gemma most likely wants to kill Clay. He's the cause of a lot of problems and he knows it.


Of course he was also talking about Unser.

[NBAller]

damnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn

[Applause]

:applause: :applause: :bowdown: :bowdown:




-------------------------------------------------------------
P.S.
http://sutterink.blogspot.com/2011/11/thanks-giving.html?m=1

[dunksby]

The episode was really bad but was rescued by the ending part. I seriously hope Clay goes out of the picture, although he is a major character I just dont see how can he stay in power and alive after all the shit he has pulled. Another issue I have with how the things are going is that the AUSA guy is going to take down a major Cartel and High level IRA management along with Sons and prolly Mayans only by playing a race card on Juice? Otto's confessions are not even relevant to the main case, he just pulled it off as a last nail on the Sons' coffin.

[Applause]

Another issue I have with how the things are going is that the AUSA guy is going to take down a major Cartel and High level IRA management along with Sons and prolly Mayans only by playing a race card on Juice? Otto's confessions are not even relevant to the main case

RICO (http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racketeer_Influenced_and_Corrupt_Organizations_Act )

[ConanRulesNBC]

Damn! I had to get my carpet cleaned last night and was without the internet last night and today so far. I just got it back.

What does everyone think? I think Clay survives. There's just no way this show can go 3 more seasons without Ron Perlman unless Sutter brings in some other badass actors to replace the ones they're going to lose this season. I think Clay survives but obviously can't lead the club so this forces Jax to stay in Charming and lead SAMCRO while Clay recovers.

Edit: I love Potter. He's my favorite character on the show this season. I just love how weird he is and really hope it's revealed there's a bigger mystery to him. I know Sutter said it was just a coincidence that Potter looks sorta like JT but I think/hope that Potter really does have a connection with the club some how. He seemed almost concerned when he saw everyone ratting on each other. Oh and now it seems like he's interested in looking at Hale/Charming Heights and seems like he wants to stop it.

[sunsfan1357]

It looked like Clay was pretty dead on the previews for next week.

[ConanRulesNBC]

The episode was really bad but was rescued by the ending part.

:wtf:

That entire episode had me sitting on the edge of my seat. I loved it.

[Thorpesaurous]

I thought it was great. It reminded me of the old Sopranoes pace where they'd do a major kill the second to last week. Chris Moltasante, Joe Pantaleone. They had a habit of it almost as a design to catch you off guard.

I would agree that it seems impossible for the show to continue with any sort of success without not just Pearlman as an actor, but without Clay as a character. He's been far too responsible for stirring the pot. But because of how it went down, a rift between Opie and Jax could replace the one between Clay and Jax. It would be a struggle for Jax to find the balance between whatever good was in his relationship with Clay, and resolving that with knowing what he did to Opie. All while still digging at the truth between Clay and his actual father JT. There's a lot to cover still in their main story. But they will need to figure out something to help along the episode to episode stories without Clay as a central figure.

[LBJFTW]

I predict that once Otto learns from Bobby that Bobby killed Luann's murderer, that Otto will off himself. They need Otto's actual testimony in court. The signed documents are not enough. Piney, Half-Sack, Kozi and Miles dead. Juice and Bobby locked up. Clay at the very least seriously wounded. By the end of the last season I predict everyone involved in the club will be dead except for Gemma and Jax's 2 boys.

[ConanRulesNBC]

I think Clay survives but this takes him out of the club at least for a while. Jax, Opie, Tig, Juice and Chibbs will probably all survive. There are 3 more seasons.

It will be very interesting to see who Sutter brings in next season to replace the Sons that have been taken out this season. I hope he brings in some good actors especially if Clay didn't survive.

I think this season ends with a HUGE shoot out between the Cartel, the feds, SAMCRO and the IRA. Sutter may even have it end where we don't know if any of SAMCRO that are there did survive.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Plus, I really want to see Danny Trejo f*ck sh*t up.

[Patrick Chewing]

Didn't like this episode. Not enough build up to Clay's demise and Opie's grief and anger seemed a bit forced. Perhaps it's because we haven't seen this since he lost Donna in Season 1.

Judging by the previews and Jax's yelling out to call the police, I think Clay survives. It would be stupid for Sutter to eliminate one of his lead characters in such a cheap anti-climactic way.

[ConanRulesNBC]

That's why I think Clay survives. I think he'll recover from this and come back stronger and then Jax and Opie together will have to come up with a plan to take him out. Clay will probably rebuild trust with other members of SAMCRO especially Tig or bring in new members that will watch his back.

[dkmwise]

That's why I think Clay survives. I think he'll recover from this and come back stronger and then Jax and Opie together will have to come up with a plan to take him out. Clay will probably rebuild trust with other members of SAMCRO especially Tig or bring in new members that will watch his back.

I agree, Clay survives this attack. Gemma warned Clay that Opie was looking for him and knew about Piney and Opie shot Clay in the chest not the head which makes you think that Clay most likely had a bulletproof vest on and will be injured but survive this.

Whatever happens to Clay I don't see him resuming his role as SAMCRO Pres. I think they will at least drag his character into next season. It's possbile Clay goes to jail so the club has to wait to kill him or he goes on the run and Jax and opie chase him down, or it's possible he jumps chapters and maybe goes to Tacoma or Tucson or Indian Hills. Tucson just lost their Pres and if Clay went to that chapter he could even still keep up dealing with the cartel.

[NBAller]

Does Jax shoot Opie?

[dkmwise]

Does Jax shoot Opie?

I didn't see Jax shoot Opie, he seemed to just freeze and stare at opie and then run to Clay.

[Jailblazers7]

I wonder if anything will happen involving Jax and his parole considering he pulled a hit and run and GTA in the middle of town with like a dozen witnesses lol.

Crazy ending. I think Clay probably survives but who knows. Opie is a great character tho I'm glad the conflict came to a head around him and not Jax.

[NBAller]

I didn't see Jax shoot Opie, he seemed to just freeze and stare at opie and then run to Clay.

Right. He didn't pull the trigger in that episode, so I was looking for peoples opinions on whether he does it or not. After all, he did ask Opie not to shoot Clay so he's not forced to shoot him, then Opie shot Clay.

[dkmwise]

Right. He didn't pull the trigger in that episode, so I was looking for peoples opinions on whether he does it or not. After all, he did ask Opie not to shoot Clay so he's not forced to shoot him, then Opie shot Clay.

I don't think he shoots him. I'm actually surprised he attempted to protect Clay in the first place.

[Patrick Chewing]

I wonder if anything will happen involving Jax and his parole considering he pulled a hit and run and GTA in the middle of town with like a dozen witnesses lol.



Nah that kinda shit goes unnoticed in the eyes of the law. LOL if I lived in Charming or the surrounding area, I'd be moving the hell out. Sons, Mayans, Niners, Mexican Cartels...:oldlol:

[Lakerlove420]

I think Clay survives but this takes him out of the club at least for a while. Jax, Opie, Tig, Juice and Chibbs will probably all survive. There are 3 more seasons.

It will be very interesting to see who Sutter brings in next season to replace the Sons that have been taken out this season. I hope he brings in some good actors especially if Clay didn't survive.

I think this season ends with a HUGE shoot out between the Cartel, the feds, SAMCRO and the IRA. Sutter may even have it end where we don't know if any of SAMCRO that are there did survive.

this is a fact?

[ConanRulesNBC]

this is a fact?

It's already been announced that it was picked up for a 5th season and Kurt Sutter said he has 7 seasons planned out.

[Lakerlove420]

It's already been announced that it was picked up for a 5th season and Kurt Sutter said he has 7 seasons planned out.

:cheers: I did not know that..
repped

[dkmwise]

The preview for this week's episode looks awsome.

In the words of Bart Scott, 'Can't wait.'

[LedBalls]

Tara is one crazy b****.

[Kobe Jnr]

Damn.. I don't want Clay gone. It'll be weird being without clay for two seasons..

Tig will cost a few lives no doubt. Hopefully tig stays also..

[Patrick Chewing]

Don't know what to make of these last two episodes. I never thought Jax would find out the truth in a more anti-climactic way. Only thing I can think of is that Sutter is throwing us a curve ball, and the season finale has Clay telling Jax that it was Gemma all along that had John killed. Gemma seemed cold and heartless in this last episode, so maybe she's trying to manipulate the men in her life again.

Remember, she removed the letters that incriminated herself and Unser. So she's still keeping something from Jax.

[dunksby]

Don't know what to make of these last two episodes. I never thought Jax would find out the truth in a more anti-climactic way. Only thing I can think of is that Sutter is throwing us a curve ball, and the season finale has Clay telling Jax that it was Gemma all along that had John killed. Gemma seemed cold and heartless in this last episode, so maybe she's trying to manipulate the men in her life again.

Remember, she removed the letters that incriminated herself and Unser. So she's still keeping something from Jax.
I think it was during the first season when the same argument is raised up and Clay hints at Gemma being an accomplice in the assassination? Gemma says something along the lines of "John was a coward, he had to go" or something like that.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Patrick, I think it wasn't supposed to be that big of a scene because Jax is only learning some of the truth. Gemma took out a couple of pages and I think there's even more truth to be told than what's in those letters. I think Gemma had a lot more to do with what happened to J.T. than has been revealed so far. I don't think she just stood by and let Clay do everything. I think Sutter is setting up Gemma to be the ultimate villain in this show. I wouldn't be surprised if next week Gemma takes out or tries to take out Tara and make it look like it was the Cartel.

I still think Clay makes it out of this season. He survived the gun shots, I think something happens and Jax changes his mind or maybe Tig walks in and stops it from happening and they run off and join another charter of the Sons. Ron Perlman is just too good of an actor and he'll be missed a lot with 3 more seasons.

It's obvious now that one of the big wars that will take place after this season is going to be SAMCRO and the Niners. Tig just started a war with what he did.

There's only one more episode left and there's still so much they need to tie up. It's going to be really hard to do that in an hour. I know Sutter won't wrap up everything this season but I want to see some things get wrapped up. Sutter could have easily done an 18 episode season.

Oh and that the fat prospect is becoming one of my new favorites. I loved the scene with the cereal where Jax found him eating that huge bowl of cereal and goes "Need a bigger bowl?" "I like cereal". He seems so out of place that it's just hilarious now.

[Patrick Chewing]

Oh and that the fat prospect is becoming one of my new favorites. I loved the scene with the cereal where Jax found him eating that huge bowl of cereal and goes "Need a bigger bowl?" "I like cereal". He seems so out of place that it's just hilarious now.

Goddamnit LOL you have no idea how badly I want that guy to get nailed in the line of fire in one of these episodes. He is beyond out of place, and I know Sutter is getting a good laugh out of this knowing how a majority of viewers dislike him. Bastard. LOL.

Has he even picked up a gun this season? Besides the one he picked up to blow his brains out?

[ConanRulesNBC]

I think he shot one of the Cartel guys who shot up Teller-Morrow earlier this season.

[dkmwise]

I wouldn't be surprised if next week Gemma takes out or tries to take out Tara and make it look like it was the Cartel.

I was really wondering last night if Tata gets killed before the end of the season just becuase I can't see where her character and story line with Jax goes. I don't see anything changing Tata or Jax's mind on getting out of town with their family. It's possible Jax decides to stay but Tara will not embrace staying and I can;t see her leaving and Jax staying and then getting into some bitter custody dispute story line, that would not interest anyone. So only thing I can see if Tara being killed and then next season Jax goes for revenge. Also they could then add Wendy back in if she and Jax get back together.


I still think Clay makes it out of this season. He survived the gun shots, I think something happens and Jax changes his mind or maybe Tig walks in and stops it from happening and they run off and join another charter of the Sons. Ron Perlman is just too good of an actor and he'll be missed a lot with 3 more seasons.

I could definetly see Clay joining another charter and still being involved in the show. I was actually surprised to see Tig forgive Clay so quickly.


Oh and that the fat prospect is becoming one of my new favorites. I loved the scene with the cereal where Jax found him eating that huge bowl of cereal and goes "Need a bigger bowl?" "I like cereal". He seems so out of place that it's just hilarious now.

I hate all the prospects they've had except for half-sac. None of them have even a little bit of bad-ass to them, they are all too meek to become bikers.

[dkmwise]

I think he shot one of the Cartel guys who shot up Teller-Morrow earlier this season.

Thats true, when they drove in there he actually did shoot one of them

[statman32]

Gemma is not going to take out Tara. While she is tough and manipulative, she is also overly protective of her family and isn't gonna take out her Jax's wife just because she is manipulating Jax. Tara will live to see another season. It just wouldn't make sense to kill her off after all they have gone through in the past few seasons. Jax going back to ****ing random broads isn't a productive story line.

Clay on the other hand, has repeatedly committed reckless, stupid acts and as of recently, tried to kill his sons wife. There is no conceivable story-line where him and Jax can co-exist.

We all know that the beef with the Niners is going to be a big part of the plot next season. Next step is finding out how Clay dies, Lincoln Potters intentions and identity, and how the Cartel/IRA deal goes down. I guess you could also include the Otto/Bobby/Juice situation, and the land deal in things that we might see expanded upon but in reality, they dont have enough time to go too deep into all of these issues.

[dkmwise]

Next step is finding out how Clay dies, Lincoln Potters intentions and identity, and how the Cartel/IRA deal goes down. I guess you could also include the Otto/Bobby/Juice situation, and the land deal in things that we might see expanded upon but in reality, they dont have enough time to go too deep into all of these issues.

All good questions.

One other thing I left that episode wondering is what is Romeo planning? He went through his contacts in Stockton and told Jax that Otto didn't make any deal. It was pretty obvious that Romeo was lying, but why? Did he just not want the meet to be stopped and he's not worried about law enforcement or is he trying to set up the club or set up the Irish?

[Thorpesaurous]

All good questions.

One other thing I left that episode wondering is what is Romeo planning? He went through his contacts in Stockton and told Jax that Otto didn't make any deal. It was pretty obvious that Romeo was lying, but why? Did he just not want the meet to be stopped and he's not worried about law enforcement or is he trying to set up the club or set up the Irish?



I think that's the main point. Romeo will come to eliminate the club now that he knows they've been the inline to a federal case being run against him. Jax will somehow fight his way out of the ambush next week. And then they'll use that us against the world mentality to try build conflict between keeping the Sons together and Jax and or Opie taking off. With Jax, Opie, Tig, Clay, and Bobbie all not really getting along one war or another, they'll all have to come together for the good of the club to keep them all out of prison from whatever Potter has on them now, and that will be the heart of the drama next year.

[ConanRulesNBC]

I just read that Sutter is using a cover song of "House of the Rising Sun" in the finale. So you know sh*t is going to get crazy.

[dkmwise]

I just read that Sutter is using a cover song of "House of the Rising Sun" in the finale. So you know sh*t is going to get crazy.

Sutter is a genius when it comes to the soundtrack for this show

[ConanRulesNBC]

If Sutter is using it like Scorsese does it only means one thing: bloodbath.

[NBAller]

bump .:rockon:

[dkmwise]

I finally realize where I recognized Potter from.

He's the reverend in Deadwood.

That had been driving me crazy.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Season finale just minutes away!! :rockon:

[Jailblazers7]

Really interesting twist. Didn't see that coming at all.

[LedBalls]

Really interesting twist. Didn't see that coming at all.

Yup. Seems so obvious now.
This will probably fix everything.

[sunsfan1357]

Feel free to spoil it for me via PM anyone who has seen it already. I'll watch it later, but don't feel like waiting to hear what happened.

[LedBalls]

Feel free to spoil it for me via PM anyone who has seen it already. I'll watch it later, but don't feel like waiting to hear what happened.

I was watching, but the stream got taken down. :(
I can tell you everything, but the last 15 minutes.

[ConanRulesNBC]

After all that they end the season with this?? WTF Sutter?!?

So now where does the show go from here? Clay recovers and most likely will now run off with the Irish in season 5 unless Opie was going to take out Clay and that's why Opie wasn't at church. The only great thing about this episode was Potter. He's by far my favorite character on the show now and there's still a mystery behind him because he was clearly looking out for Charming and SAMCRO.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Feel free to spoil it for me via PM anyone who has seen it already. I'll watch it later, but don't feel like waiting to hear what happened.

Sent you a PM.

[Jailblazers7]

We still don't know the full truth about JT's murder. I think it will still be a big topic next season. The Opie/Jax drama will obviously be central and I think and old guard/new guard beef will be a big storyline in the club. I feel like its only a matter of tim before the skeletons in Gemma's closet come back to haunt her tho. The Niners will be improtant too obviously

I kinda found the lyric change in House of the Rising Sun to be cheesy lol. Just sing the original song.

[ConanRulesNBC]

Yeah, I think this splits up the club next season. Clay will have Tig back on his side now and the Irish. More secrets will come out about JT and Jax will find out that Gemma had way more to do with it.

The only good thing about this finale is that it means Danny Trejo and Ron Perlman will be back next season.

[Jailblazers7]

I almost lol'd at Happy's face when he saw Jax at the gavel.

[statman32]

Not a exciting season finale but kept me on the edge of my seat. Fitting conclusion to the best season so far. Cant wait till next season. Still so many storylines that were kept open to make things exciting.

[Thorpesaurous]

I'm really torn on this season finale.

On the pro side, the set up for next year is really good. Clay has leverage because of the Irish that he doesn't even know about. He doesn't know, in fact no one knows, except for Jax and Tara, why Jax is so desperate to consumate the Gallindo/Irish deal. Chibbs has been moved up, mainly to help Jax in his facilitating the Irish, but he's gonna be torn between Jax and Clay, and with Jax unable to tell him his true motives, it will put Chibbs in an interesting spot.
Bobby as well, will be getting unknown assistance from Jax, for reason's Jax can't divulge.
Tig is seething.
Opie is a loose canon that doesn't trust either Jax or Clay, and with Jax unable to tell Opie his motives for staying, and continuing to say things like "I need you to trust me Bro!", it leaves the door open for Clay to manipulate Op back to his side to some degree.
Lincoln Potter and Sheriff Eli remain intriguing, perhaps more intriguing than they were before due to how each ended the episode.


The Con, one big one really. The reveal of Gallindo was just cheesey. It was a sorry mechanism to write themselves out of the situation, almost akin to the Bobby Ewing dream sequence in which all of a sudden it was as if they just erased the entire season, hold on ... this didn't count. I really didn't like it. And the way it was done wasn't even well executed. They walk onto Potter's set up with a hertofore unmentioned CIA dude with a sheet of paper and shut everything down all before they even play the theme song. Then they bring Jax into a seperate room after this huge Irish deal falls through, flash him a couple badges, which makes no sense, I don't think they'd be getting badged just because the CIA is using one Cartel against another, and everything for whatever reason is perfectly clear to Jax. And all this before the first act.

Also, as much as I like Potter as a character, he'd better turn into something big next season. Because otherwise him setting up this big sting only to be stripped down like this and then disappear would just be confusing.

[Jailblazers7]

I was confused by the badges too. For a second I couldn't figure out if they were CIA undercover or legit cartel working for the CIA because I couldn't understand why members of a cartel would be given badges even if they are cooperating with the CIA.

It did seem pretty lazy and rushed the way they revealed it. That should have been something that was built up to and revealed in the last 15 minutes of the episode, not something that's over and done with in the first 3-4 minutes. I guess Sutter rushed it because he wanted to focus on Jax's dilemma but it could have been handled a lot better.

It will be interesting to see next season tho because things have been set up so well for it.

[Harrison_Barnes]

I almost lol'd at Happy's face when he saw Jax at the gavel.

Hahah me too. :cheers:

All in all though, it was a good episode. I wish they would have shown if Opie was going to join Jax or not.. I hate waiting for new seasons to start. :lol

[Gunnin4HoLeS]

Yes, just finished SOA season 4.. i liked the season.. the season finale fell a little..and i mean a little short.. I wish i coulve seen more of a cliffhanger than that. Is it just me or that last pic of Jax taking the throne fits better for a series finale no?but oh well.. overall one of the best seasons of SOA

[sunsfan1357]

Sent you a PM.
:cheers:

Just from reading the rundown it all seems kind of lame, which is disappointing. This season had the potential to have a very huge finale, but I guess they need to find a way to extend it a couple more seasons.

[dunksby]

WTF was that? Nothing was concluded in this season ffs! They started the season with the Sons trying to act as an intermediary between the Irish and the Cartel which did not happen. Season started with Potter putting up a RICO operation to take down the Sons/IRA/Cartel which again did not go anywhere. The season started with Jax promising Tara to leave Charming which again went to shit. What did happen during this season besides lame fight scenes and dragging a dead plot which truly needs a reconsideration. JT letters are still a problem since Season One :facepalm
**** this, this show aint going nowhere...

[B]

So many thoughts on this show.

Last season we were blind sided at the end of the episode, this year we got it at the very start.

Last year we truly were left hanging, this year we got a glimpse of next season due to the early blind side.

Potter. His walking in on city council meeting and dumping all that crud on the floor shows he is much much more wired into the town than just a RICO case. He's dug in. He'll be back.

Clay. I don't know, Jax and crowd seem set to roll but I'm not sure how Clay will work into this next season. The club needs him for the Irish does he need the club? He doesn't know why the Jax needs him, on the surface it's just to deal with the Irish and that could easily be tweeked with Clay telling the Irish Jax is good to deal with and Clay could step back.

Interesting ending that leaves next season wide open. I see the club getting back to it's roots. When Jax told the Cartel the club was over it's head that left the door open for a return to normal everyday club law breaking activities and with CIA protection the Cartel Irish aspect could become a secondary storyline. There's no danger in it any longer

Can't wait. Still hooked

[B]

Interview with Sutter

http://insidetv.ew.com/2011/12/07/sons-of-anarchy-season-4-finale-kurt-sutter/

[dkmwise]

The only great thing about this episode was Potter. He's by far my favorite character on the show now and there's still a mystery behind him because he was clearly looking out for Charming and SAMCRO.


Potter really was great in this episode. That was hilarious when he brought that little boy doll to the town meeting.

[dkmwise]

I kinda found the lyric change in House of the Rising Sun to be cheesy lol. Just sing the original song.

Completely agree, I like how they always do their own versions of the song, but usually they keep the words the same, I thought adding Charming was completely cheesy and unecesary too

[dkmwise]

As much as I love this show it really seems to be getting away from a show about an OMC and just a generic drama about Jax Teller.

I could do without the crazy over the top story lines every season and just get back to the basics of an OMC. The basic day to day stuff is what I liked so much about the first season. This season we barely saw the club do stuff as a whole and a lot of the main cast like Tig, Bobby, Chips, just seemd to be background characters.

This same thing happenes to a lot of shows after the first few seasons. Most notably for me was Rescue Me. Since I was on a fire department when this show came out I loved it. But then after the first couple seasons it was no longer a firefighter show, it was just the Tommy Gavin Drama series.

[Jailblazers7]

Just rewatched Season 3 now that its up on Netflix. The finale has to be one of the dopest season finales ever.

[ZeN]

Just rewatched Season 3 now that its up on Netflix. The finale has to be one of the dopest season finales ever.
QFT

Opie was a badass.

[Jailblazers7]

QFT

Opie was a badass.

The part where Stahl says "you had mercy before" and The looks on Opie's face as he says "and now I don't" is probably my favorite part of the episode.

Jax was my favorite character throughout season 1 but Opie is prob my favorite character in the show. Idk tho because Clay is such a great character and his history and background has been developed to such an enormous extent that its tough to eclipse him.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

Just rewatched Season 3 now that its up on Netflix. The finale has to be one of the dopest season finales ever.
Gotta agree with you on that. I was anxiously waiting for Stahl to get killed. I've got a few more episodes left in Season 4. I was so pissed the Cartel didn't kill Tara tho. Can't wait to see the fallout from Oppie shooting Clay. I wonder if the writers will consider a prequel $eries after the series runs its course.

[NoGunzJustSkillz]

As much as I love this show it really seems to be getting away from a show about an OMC and just a generic drama about Jax Teller.

I could do without the crazy over the top story lines every season and just get back to the basics of an OMC. The basic day to day stuff is what I liked so much about the first season. This season we barely saw the club do stuff as a whole and a lot of the main cast like Tig, Bobby, Chips, just seemd to be background characters.

This same thing happenes to a lot of shows after the first few seasons. Most notably for me was Rescue Me. Since I was on a fire department when this show came out I loved it. But then after the first couple seasons it was no longer a firefighter show, it was just the Tommy Gavin Drama series.
The club is falling apart, that is the point dude. I do agree on the JAx/generic drama.

Anyways, who would you guys rather bang?

http://25.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m6d9alwcvE1rpat8ho1_500.jpg

http://cartermatt.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/09/sons-of-anarchy-Tara.jpg