I had Illmatic on tape. Twice. And Midnight Marauders.

[Kblaze8855]

I can recite "Come Clean" off te top of my head and probably "Braggin Writes" too. Ive heard Canibus Poet Laureate more times than ive heard people over the Amili beat.

Point? Generally speaking I **** with lyrical rappers and people who have something to say...or a jazzy old school style. And I hate virtually everything on the radio after 1996.

I am one of those rap snobs who cant even be in the room with some Gucci on. I am exactly the kind of person who mainstream rap fans hate for hating on popular music. Im an old bitter fan who wants things the way they were.



And yet......




Im not sure Rick Ross the last 3 years or so doesnt make some of the best music in rap history.


Listen to how he comes in on Maybach Music 3 or Devil in a New dress...its like a ****ing movement.


Friend of mine told me his father asked him to burn a CD of what he was playing when they rode in the car with Teflon Don on. This is a 60 year old man now. I read that Kanye said ross is the only rapper that gets played in his home. Something like hes playing Pink floyd, al Green, some old rock band...and Ross.

I believe Ross is probably respected by people who make music.

The best of his last 3-4 years in one album would be on some all time great shit in one album.

Mafia Music
Rich off cocaine
Tears of Joy
Even deeper
Yacht club
Usual Suspects
Freemasons
Mafia Music 2(the video is just hilarious by the way)

With an intro and an interlude somewhere in there Wayne style that he isnt even on...perhaps Pusha Ts Can I live......throw on Aston Martin Music and superhigh somewhere in there(dont act like they were bad songs).

We would be talking an album that would be all time great. And im not sure why it seems so few notice....

People talk about him being fake as if...being fake isnt pretty much the job of a rapper these days.

Besides he explained it fine to me:

"Only live once and I got 2 kids. I'll shovel shit. I'll CO...so we can bow our heads and pray over the meatloaf".


The man makes outstanding music a good bit of the time...and his average song is pretty good.

I mean...Rakims last album wasnt as good as either of Ross last two. He is flat out one of the best...song makers..in rap music history.

Best rappers? No. But the man somehow...whatever he does....puts out a finished product that at its best is pretty much crime rap mixed with classic soul music. no doubt because he gets soul music samples then raps over it much of the time...but it works.

Ross might be the most underrated song maker by people like...me I guess.

And yes I know there is a ross topic somewhere on him not quite dying. Dont care.

[Go Getter]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4lB3mvuoTk

one of the best songs this year :bowdown:


sounds like a video game beat.


Nas makes me sick with the flip-flopping....you wan kick knowledge or you wan be a gangsta son? Pick a side already.

[Rnbizzle]

sounds like a video game beat.


Nas makes me sick with the flip-flopping....you wan kick knowledge or you wan be a gangsta son? Pick a side already.
Nas kicking knowledge = GOAT rapper IMO.

[Go Getter]

Nas kicking knowledge = GOAT rapper IMO.
Nas is one of my favorites I don't have an all time best but when he's on his game he is on par with anyone.

I just don't like how he switches from kicking knowledge to doing a cookie cutter brainless song with Rick Ross.

Dude need to quit the mafioso stuff, he was never a goon and everyone knows it.

[Knicks101]

I was thinking about this the other day. When did Rick Ross become so good? I was listening to his debut album, and it really wasn't that great. Move on to around 2010, and dude's a ****ing monster. I think it's arguable that he has the most presence since Biggie. The first couple tracks on Self Made. :bowdown: Mainly because of Ross and his ad-libs.

Also, I think it's hilarious when people point out that he's full of shit as if it wasn't painfully obvious before we found out he was a corrections officer. Did people really believe that Noriega owed him a hundred favors?

[Go Getter]

The most presence since Biggie? Omg man sit down somewhere.

Ross is a POS rapper that talks about nothing but utter bullshit.

[Knicks101]

The most presence since Biggie? Omg man sit down somewhere.

Ross is a POS rapper that talks about nothing but utter bullshit.

Who has more? When I hear that "uhhgh" I'm like, "Oh shit, Ross is on this track".

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m5spMjy8uhc&ob=av3e

Seriously, who has more?

[Go Getter]

Biggie.

Rick Ross makes songs for idiotic kids and young men that want to buy into a frivolous lifestyle.

Ross's hooks suck

He has no sense of self or hip-hop

His adlibs suck

His beats are getting staler and staler by the minute



"2Pac's back"

"MC Hammer"

"Ahston Martin Music"

"Maybach Music"

"Rozaaaaaaaay"

Dude is a commercial clown.

[Go Getter]

his hooks are awesome, ur just a hater. rozay is one of the best out there today.


"I think I'm big meech, larry hoover, flippin work--ha-lle-lu-jah"

"They screamin' 2Pac's back, 2Pac's back"

PURE GENIUS!

Dude has a tight voice for rapping but his whole style is commercial garbage.

He came out with a couple bangers but that's my honest opinion.

[Go Getter]

i never claimed his hooks were pure genius, thats your words.. i just said they're good and catchy which they are.

if his style is commercial garbage doesn't really matter since it seems to be working for him.

and if hes "fake" or not i dont care about, as long as his music is good. and pretty much all the mainstream rappers today are fake anyway. they don't need to sell coke and they don't have choppahs in the car (well maybe T.I) lmao
You knew I was being sarcastic man c'mon now.

You listed fake as a negative for Ross. Never...not ONCE did I call him fake.

I said his skills were not that of a top rapper and that he's selling a lifestyle to sheep-like people.

Plenty of wack rappers have been on top of the world for a few years.

Tell me this....where is Ross's TIMELESS song? His best work? What song will he be remembered for?

[East_Stone_Ya]

I can recite "Come Clean" off te top of my head and probably "Braggin Writes" too. Ive heard Canibus Poet Laureate more times than ive heard people over the Amili beat.

Point? Generally speaking I **** with lyrical rappers and people who have something to say...or a jazzy old school style. And I hate virtually everything on the radio after 1996.

I am one of those rap snobs who cant even be in the room with some Gucci on. I am exactly the kind of person who mainstream rap fans hate for hating on popular music. Im an old bitter fan who wants things the way they were.



And yet......




Im not sure Rick Ross the last 3 years or so doesnt make some of the best music in rap history.


Listen to how he comes in on Maybach Music 3 or Devil in a New dress...its like a ****ing movement.


Friend of mine told me his father asked him to burn a CD of what he was playing when they rode in the car with Teflon Don on. This is a 60 year old man now. I read that Kanye said ross is the only rapper that gets played in his home. Something like hes playing Pink floyd, al Green, some old rock band...and Ross.

I believe Ross is probably respected by people who make music.

The best of his last 3-4 years in one album would be on some all time great shit in one album.

Mafia Music
Rich off cocaine
Tears of Joy
Even deeper
Yacht club
Usual Suspects
Freemasons
Mafia Music 2(the video is just hilarious by the way)

With an intro and an interlude somewhere in there Wayne style that he isnt even on...perhaps Pusha Ts Can I live......throw on Aston Martin Music and superhigh somewhere in there(dont act like they were bad songs).

We would be talking an album that would be all time great. And im not sure why it seems so few notice....

People talk about him being fake as if...being fake isnt pretty much the job of a rapper these days.

Besides he explained it fine to me:

"Only live once and I got 2 kids. I'll shovel shit. I'll CO...so we can bow our heads and pray over the meatloaf".


The man makes outstanding music a good bit of the time...and his average song is pretty good.

I mean...Rakims last album wasnt as good as either of Ross last two. He is flat out one of the best...song makers..in rap music history.

Best rappers? No. But the man somehow...whatever he does....puts out a finished product that at its best is pretty much crime rap mixed with classic soul music. no doubt because he gets soul music samples then raps over it much of the time...but it works.

Ross might be the most underrated song maker by people like...me I guess.

And yes I know there is a ross topic somewhere on him not quite dying. Dont care.

u drunk..right RIGHT!

[Go Getter]

didn't even say you called him fake brosef. thats just what most people call him.

honestly i think ross has a good flow and a unique voice, his lyrics may not be like nas, blu or someone like that but i enjoy them. atleast ross have one style and he doesn't switch between carachter (lol typo) like other rappers do. he may not be a top 10 all time rapper, but as of today he's one of the best.

and he has a good amount of bangers, and if i were to pick rozays timeless song as of right now, i would probably pick Aston Martin Music with Drakes verse to it. his best work i think is deeper than rap or teflon don.

but i don't think we have seen the best of ross yet, and i think he will continue to deliver great music. right now i don't see anyone with the same impact as him.


I respectfully disagree.

Every other line is a shout out to some product or drugs or baseless/shallow ideal.

None of his songs imo are timeless like the works of true great hip-hop artists.

What impact has he had? What acts has he put on? What do you mean by impact exactly?

[Meticode]

I think Nas is one of those rappers were I at least consistently like at leats a few songs off each of this album at the minimum and I like all of his albums to a certain extent.

[ROCSteady]

Ross has some of the greatest track presence around. He's not a word wizard or anything but I love when he jumps on a hard ass beat. Nobody can sound so badass when they say the name Archie Bunker lol

[Go Getter]

track presence?:confusedshrug:

[Go Getter]

i respect that you disagree, we don't have to have the same opinion.

i can agree that none of his songs is timeless. but the one closest to being so is aston martin music. his songs will never be timeless like what nas, pac, biggie, jay etc gave us in the 90s and early 2000s. he's not good enough lyrically, and also because hip-hop has evolved into this huge industry. its the club songs that makes you famous and a top rapper these days, not some political deep lyrical song. and thats what ross is the best at, making these club songs.

and his impact, is the impact of bringing rap music back to a respectful level. there is no one bigger than him right now, except maybe wayne.


That last line is a little romantic especially seeing as though Young Money is killing Ross and 'nem.

[RidonKs]

track presence?:confusedshrug:
in spades

[Go Getter]

in spades
seems like false bravado and posturing to me but it's all up to the listener I guess.

[RidonKs]

seems like false bravado and posturing to me but it's all up to the listener I guess.
eh, you could make the same case against biggie or chuck d or whoever, i think. not to say ross is on their level, but if you listen to any of these guys sceptically, you can poke holes in their presence just the same, lines here and there where you can detect some strain, whatever other small intricacies you can find in any given song. Ross has the voice and the gusto to catch a listener's ear. whether or not it's authentic isn't even a question, of course it's inauthentic. but he does a good job with presentation.

[NoName22]

Respect Ross for upping up his MCing game.

[kaiiu]

I was fvckin wit Ross ever since he said

" Push it real hard push it push it real hard"

ayyeeee. I was a yungin doe just 12 ,dick wet no pusse yet

[Go Getter]

eh, you could make the same case against biggie or chuck d or whoever, i think. not to say ross is on their level, but if you listen to any of these guys sceptically, you can poke holes in their presence just the same, lines here and there where you can detect some strain, whatever other small intricacies you can find in any given song. Ross has the voice and the gusto to catch a listener's ear. whether or not it's authentic isn't even a question, of course it's inauthentic. but he does a good job with presentation.
I'm speaking of the strain it takes for him to take loss after loss. to his credit he has retained his fans through some tough shit but he runs with Puffy who's like a cockroach anyways.

It's not about his music being authentic it's about the quality of work.


-Taking bars off to say *ugghh* because you have no wind.
-Feeding on a steady diet of weed, cars, and violence.
-Acting oblivious to what's REALLY going on in the streets and making records that don't really reflect his area.


Those are major no-no's in my eyes when you're talking about a top guy in the game...I knew Big Pun fat ass couldn't do half the shit he was saying...Canibus too, but at one point they were technically sound rappers. Forget the beat, the voice, the look..what are you talking about and how did you put it together? Ross' songs are predictable, he's a ****ing advertisement rapper...he sells cars, liquor, and clothes.

*Then he put Big Meech and Larry Hoover in his song.:facepalm

This is after the real FRR called him out.

Dude is something else.

[Rockets(T-mac)]

Never liked him. I usually like some witty or deep lyrics. I'm all for the crazy beats that just make your head nod, but if that's all you do I can't really get into it. I exactly like what the first part of Kblazes OP said. I love all the old school stuff where guys were just rapping, it came off natural (even if it wasn't) now a days shit is just forced.

[Kblaze8855]

Ross does have perhaps the strongest "presence" on a track right now. I discussed this not too long ago...

Hes one of rappers who comes onto a song and it changes so much vibe wise that no matter who else is on it...its his song. Really...listen to Devil in a new dress? The whole song ends...and there is a minute long guitar solo as he comes on the track. Its not him creating it...but Ross comes onto a track like he just stepped off an 8 million dollar jet in a Ric Flair robe.

And his hooks suck? Ross might...have the best hooks in rap on his better songs. Rich of cocaine is epic. Tears of joy with cee lo on the hook? Usual Suspects?

I feel like sometimes im one of the only rap fans of my kind who really listens to the guy. Hes no on some Illmatic level shit...but he can make songs with the best of them. And I think everyone in music knows it.

Hes hated on by fans but Jay, nas, Ceelo, and Badu types work with him? Ive heard Talib sing his praises. Shit I heard Kool G Rap showing nothing but respect.

For the music he puts out...Ross is worthy of respect. You cant listen to Tears of Joy and say the man isnt making great hip hop. People do it and credit Cee lo for the hook...but you can watch a video on the making of tht song on youtube. Ross knows what hes doing.

[RaininTwos]

Ross does have perhaps the strongest "presence" on a track right now. I discussed this not too long ago...

Hes one of rappers who comes onto a song and it changes so much vibe wise that no matter who else is on it...its his song. Really...listen to Devil in a new dress? The whole song ends...and there is a minute long guitar solo as he comes on the track. Its not him creating it...but Ross comes onto a track like he just stepped off an 8 million dollar jet in a Ric Flair robe.

And his hooks suck? Ross might...have the best hooks in rap on his better songs. Rich of cocaine is epic. Tears of joy with cee lo on the hook? Usual Suspects?

I feel like sometimes im one of the only rap fans of my kind who really listens to the guy. Hes no on some Illmatic level shit...but he can make songs with the best of them. And I think everyone in music knows it.

Hes hated on by fans but Jay, nas, Ceelo, and Badu types work with him? Ive heard Talib sing his praises. Shit I heard Kool G Rap showing nothing but respect.

For the music he puts out...Ross is worthy of respect. You cant listen to Tears of Joy and say the man isnt making great hip hop. People do it and credit Cee lo for the hook...but you can watch a video on the making of tht song on youtube. Ross knows what hes doing.
Bolded= really?

Anyways, Tears of Joy was one of the best tracks last year and that hook was classic.

[Kblaze8855]

Really. virtually every respected rapper ive heard reference ross seems to know he makes good music. I saw an interview with Beanie Sigel saying he cant even hate on Ross for being a CO because his mother was one...and that its just a job.

[WhiteMosɘs]

Really. virtually every respected rapper ive heard reference ross seems to know he makes good music. I saw an interview with Beanie Sigel saying he cant even hate on Ross for being a CO because his mother was one...and that its just a job.

I posted a topic about liking Ross a while ago and was completely ridiculed. :oldlol: I'm no KBlaze...but for serious I agree with absolutely everything you've said. Ross is soo dope right now. And I believe what YN said, he's on the verge of getting into that upper echelon. He has crazy buzz right now, and his music is...well it's everything you've already said.

[Go Getter]

Ross does have perhaps the strongest "presence" on a track right now. I discussed this not too long ago...

Hes one of rappers who comes onto a song and it changes so much vibe wise that no matter who else is on it...its his song. Really...listen to Devil in a new dress? The whole song ends...and there is a minute long guitar solo as he comes on the track. Its not him creating it...but Ross comes onto a track like he just stepped off an 8 million dollar jet in a Ric Flair robe.

And his hooks suck? Ross might...have the best hooks in rap on his better songs. Rich of cocaine is epic. Tears of joy with cee lo on the hook? Usual Suspects?

I feel like sometimes im one of the only rap fans of my kind who really listens to the guy. Hes no on some Illmatic level shit...but he can make songs with the best of them. And I think everyone in music knows it.

Hes hated on by fans but Jay, nas, Ceelo, and Badu types work with him? Ive heard Talib sing his praises. Shit I heard Kool G Rap showing nothing but respect.

For the music he puts out...Ross is worthy of respect. You cant listen to Tears of Joy and say the man isnt making great hip hop. People do it and credit Cee lo for the hook...but you can watch a video on the making of tht song on youtube. Ross knows what hes doing.


It's not about respect or props it's about label alliances and money.

People respect Ross because he can make a song that's profitable.

I don't know for sure but I bet he's clowned quite a bit behind closed doors.

Remember Rakim co-signing for Juelz Santana......legends co-signing for you means little imo.

[Go Getter]

Ross does have perhaps the strongest "presence" on a track right now. I discussed this not too long ago...

Hes one of rappers who comes onto a song and it changes so much vibe wise that no matter who else is on it...its his song. Really...listen to Devil in a new dress? The whole song ends...and there is a minute long guitar solo as he comes on the track. Its not him creating it...but Ross comes onto a track like he just stepped off an 8 million dollar jet in a Ric Flair robe.

And his hooks suck? Ross might...have the best hooks in rap on his better songs. Rich of cocaine is epic. Tears of joy with cee lo on the hook? Usual Suspects?

I feel like sometimes im one of the only rap fans of my kind who really listens to the guy. Hes no on some Illmatic level shit...but he can make songs with the best of them. And I think everyone in music knows it.

Hes hated on by fans but Jay, nas, Ceelo, and Badu types work with him? Ive heard Talib sing his praises. Shit I heard Kool G Rap showing nothing but respect.

For the music he puts out...Ross is worthy of respect. You cant listen to Tears of Joy and say the man isnt making great hip hop. People do it and credit Cee lo for the hook...but you can watch a video on the making of tht song on youtube. Ross knows what hes doing.
Puffy is his manager man....Puffy (isn't he?)

I think you're giving dude way too much props. His skills are subpar and he sells a trash lifestyle to our youth.

[Kblaze8855]

Skills subpar compared to who? The greats? Arguably. But his song making isnt. Not by much at least. not like Ross couldnt be on some "I like my beats hard like 2 day old shit. Steady eating booty Mcs like cheese grits" shit.

And lifestyle? He sells the same lifestyle 90% of rappers do. Including many respected ones. Not like Biggie ever had anything positive to say. The most happy go lucky song he ever made started with him trying to justify selling crack.

What does biggie get a pass for talking about robbing pregnant women, being a "don" when he just stood on a corner for 45 minutes, and making whole songs devoted to stealing, killing, and women?

Ross subject matter is pretty standard these days. Pretty standard for the 90s too.

[Go Getter]

Skills subpar compared to who? The greats? Arguably. But his song making isnt. Not by much at least. not like Ross couldnt be on some "I like my beats hard like 2 day old shit. Steady eating booty Mcs like cheese grits" shit.

And lifestyle? He sells the same lifestyle 90% of rappers do. Including many respected ones. Not like Biggie ever had anything positive to say. The most happy go lucky song he ever made started with him trying to justify selling crack.

What does biggie get a pass for talking about robbing pregnant women, being a "don" when he just stood on a corner for 45 minutes, and making whole songs devoted to stealing, killing, and women?

Ross subject matter is pretty standard these days. Pretty standard for the 90s too.


Ross goes overboard. He's ALWAYS selling us something. MAybachs. Ciroc. Rozay. LV/Gucci. Dude is a billboard.

And Biggie did battle with dark thoughts but he had creativity, skill, and heart (so it seemed).

Juicy? Sky's the Limit? I Got a Story to Tell?

Masterful classics.

To put Ross's simplistic and commercial style in the same breath is insulting to me.

[Go Getter]

Dude is like Lil Jon with the...

"ughh...I'm still ballin' like I'm bo diddly.....ughh, I'm still ballin' like I'm Bo Diddly"


You mean to tell me that's not subpar rapping?

[Kblaze8855]

Rappers have been talking about their favorite fancy things/brands since day one. How many kids you think bought Adidas because of Run DMC? Know how many people started drinking Alize because of pac? As usual Ross is hated for things plenty of people arent even called out for.

And masterful classics? And Ross is simplistic and commercial...compared to Biggie...a guy who made Party and Bullshit? Hypnotize? i love the dough? ****ing you tonight with R Kelly?

Biggie was a goofy ass dude who could rap his ass off but he made way more songs about nothing or songs about violence or crime than he did about anything of substance.

biggies favorite rapper was Too Short. This is what Biggie had to say about the rap he liked:


"I'm into fly pimp,
straight flat shit. I don't like no ***** that I have to decipher but some
***** that I do dicipher I give a ten...Nas, I give Jeru a ten, I give
ummmmm?....

(Someone shouts out KRS-One.)

KRS-One: KRS-One?? Naahhh...I don't like KRS no more 'cause he just think
he's too dope. He let his ego take over his shit and that's what brings
him down. When he was like that (shouts "Blow it to yorself"), when he was
like that, then he was a ten but now, 'I am Hip Hop'!!! Eat a dick *****.
Eat a muthaphukkin' dick!"


Biggie wasnt some stuck up rap snob type. he was about having fun and enjoying being rich and his music reflected it.

Lets not act like the dude was doing Suicidal Thoughts every track. Extreme vast majority of Biggie songs could be Ross songs and nobody would notice a subject matter change.

[Kblaze8855]

Dude is like Lil Jon with the...

"ughh...I'm still ballin' like I'm bo diddly.....ughh, I'm still ballin' like I'm Bo Diddly"


You mean to tell me that's not subpar rapping?


"Yeah, owe me back like you owe your tax
Owe me back like forty acres to Blacks
Pay me back when you shake it like that girl"

You meant to tell me thats not subpar rapping?

A hook on a club song isnt what makes a rapper skilled or not.

[Go Getter]

Rappers have been talking about their favorite fancy things/brands since day one. How many kids you think bought Adidas because of Run DMC? Know how many people started drinking Alize because of pac? As usual Ross is hated for things plenty of people arent even called out for.

And masterful classics? And Ross is simplistic and commercial...compared to Biggie...a guy who made Party and Bullshit? Hypnotize? i love the dough? ****ing you tonight with R Kelly?

Biggie was a goofy ass dude who could rap his ass off but he made way more songs about nothing or songs about violence or crime than he did about anything of substance.

biggies favorite rapper was Too Short. This is what Biggie had to say about the rap he liked:


"I'm into fly pimp,
straight flat shit. I don't like no ***** that I have to decipher but some
***** that I do dicipher I give a ten...Nas, I give Jeru a ten, I give
ummmmm?....

(Someone shouts out KRS-One.)

KRS-One: KRS-One?? Naahhh...I don't like KRS no more 'cause he just think
he's too dope. He let his ego take over his shit and that's what brings
him down. When he was like that (shouts "Blow it to yorself"), when he was
like that, then he was a ten but now, 'I am Hip Hop'!!! Eat a dick *****.
Eat a muthaphukkin' dick!"


Biggie wasnt some stuck up rap snob type. he was about having fun and enjoying being rich and his music reflected it.

Lets not act like the dude was doing Suicidal Thoughts every track. Extreme vast majority of Biggie songs could be Ross songs and nobody would notice a subject matter change.


Sky's the Limit and Juicy told us about his life and struggle...it's semi-believable. Ross's stuff is straight outta a Scarface/Shower Posse flick. And I know there was a mafioso craze back in the day but people act like what he's doing is new and fresh when it's not. He's just got a Haitian version of said craze.


Also:

-There is a difference between making ONE song about adidas and naming your group after a Mercedes and yourself after an alcoholic beverage.

[Go Getter]

"Yeah, owe me back like you owe your tax
Owe me back like forty acres to Blacks
Pay me back when you shake it like that girl"

You meant to tell me thats not subpar rapping?

A hook on a club song isnt what makes a rapper skilled or not.
That hook is Shakespeare copmpared to:

Ugh, I park the caddy in the living room
ugh, I park the caddy in the living room

[Kblaze8855]

Ross has a lot of songs about perfectly reasonable things. Growing up poor. Loves/women. Prayer. You not caring to listen to them doesnt mean they dont exist.

And groups have been named after cars and drinks way before rap even existed. Cadillac records? The group Rolls royce? The Teptations were first named after a brand of watch...

Its not new.

And is :


He really really really ****ed my coochie
He really really really turned me out
He really really really got to gut me
He really really made me scream and shout

He really taught me how to work my body
He really taught me how to do it with my mouth
He really really tried to hurt me hurt me
I really love his thug and gangsta style


"Shakesspeare" too?

Point blank...the worst a person has to offer just isnt what a reasonable person judges them by.

[Go Getter]

Ross has a lot of songs about perfectly reasonable things. Growing up poor. Loves/women. Prayer. You not caring to listen to them doesnt mean they dont exist.

And groups have been named after cars and drinks way before rap even existed. Cadillac records? The group Rolls royce? The Teptations were first named after a brand of watch...

Its not new.

And is :


He really really really ****ed my coochie
He really really really turned me out
He really really really got to gut me
He really really made me scream and shout

He really taught me how to work my body
He really taught me how to do it with my mouth
He really really tried to hurt me hurt me
I really love his thug and gangsta style


"Shakesspeare" too?

Point blank...the worst a person has to offer just isnt what a reasonable person judges them by.

True.

My main point is he's making a mockery of our lifestyle and he's extremely commercial....

"I made a ___ million dollars last year serving weight?"

"All the posturing and BOSS talk?"

"licking his jewelry?"

It turns me off. And calling yourself Rick Ross after one of the biggest gangsters in America and then saying you've never heard of him yet you stay in the same city turns me off too. The CO thing was funny but not really a big deal to me.

At any rate he has a good voice for rap and can make a banger or two but his albums since the one with Yacht Club on it have sub par at best imo.

[L.Kizzle]

Whoever makes his beats is the star of the show. While he's not a not a NaS or J-Zee, he's not a Soulja Boy or Gucci Mane either.

[Go Getter]

Whoever makes his beats is the star of the show. While he's not a not a NaS or J-Zee, he's not a Soulja Boy or Gucci Mane either.
This. I liken him to Young Jeezy. I loved Thug Motivation 101, but for the beats not for Jeezy's bs dope sptories.

[Kblaze8855]

True.

My main point is he's making a mockery of our lifestyle and he's extremely commercial....

Who is he making a mockery of? Are you a drug dealer or what?


"I made a ___ million dollars last year serving weight?"

"All the posturing and BOSS talk?"

"licking his jewelry?"

It turns me off.

Rae and Ghost, nas, Jay Z, Big L, Mobb deep, and on and onand on and on and on all do the same basic "I make money and im a boss" shit. Some of these dudes seen on album covers dressed as Scarface...

Its how those kinds of rappers carry themselves. Its a character. Its not meant to be taken that serious....



And calling yourself Rick Ross after one of the biggest gangsters in America and then saying you've never heard of him yet you stay in the same city turns me off too. The CO thing was funny but not really a big deal to me.

At any rate he has a good voice for rap and can make a banger or two but his albums since the one with Yacht Club on it have sub par at best imo.

Subpar...at best? The one album hes done since the one you mentioned? Tears of Joy and Free mason?

Eh. When you say things like that(subpar at best) it just seems you are making it personal and not about music. Which I feel is likely the reason so many people like me dont give him a chance.

Im not calling him Rakim(though hes made 2 albums as good as or better than Rakims last one). But subpar at best? Just ignores how many bad albums are out there.

People line up to hate and can rarely judge him fairly it seems.

And you say he has a banger or two...what are they? Just wondering.

[Kblaze8855]

This. I liken him to Young Jeezy. I loved Thug Motivation 101, but for the beats not for Jeezy's bs dope sptories.

Its not that simple though. Rass Kass and Canibus can rap. but they can rarely make good songs. What...they cant find good producers much of the time?

Its the kind of song you set out to make and the feel you want.

Ross makes better songs than many people who can make more complex verses. I could do what my girl does and...read lyrics(shes a poet...likes doing that). Or I can listen to a song. I like to listen to songs.

Lot of "better" rappers seem to be worse makers of music with no worse access to producers.

[Go Getter]

Who is he making a mockery of? Are you a drug dealer or what?



Rae and Ghost, nas, Jay Z, Big L, Mobb deep, and on and onand on and on and on all do the same basic "I make money and im a boss" shit. Some of these dudes seen on album covers dressed as Scarface...

Its how those kinds of rappers carry themselves. Its a character. Its not meant to be taken that serious....




Subpar...at best? The one album hes done since the one you mentioned? Tears of Joy and Free mason?

Eh. When you say things like that(subpar at best) it just seems you are making it personal and not about music. Which I feel is likely the reason so many people like me dont give him a chance.

Im not calling him Rakim(though hes made 2 albums as good as or better than Rakims last one). But subpar at best? Just ignores how many bad albums are out there.

People line up to hate and can rarely judge him fairly it seems.

And you say he has a banger or two...what are they? Just wondering.

I'm a hip-hop head. I come from a black community. Ross is the poster child for drug dealer turned rapper yet he ignores almost every street rule in his raps.

I'm not saying others don't do this, I downgrade Jay-Z and Nas for doing it, I'm saying it's silly and people eat it up because apparently style>substance.

Me saying Ross makes sub par music has nothing to do with the rest of the music biz....I think the biz is in the dumps.

And not all rappers subscribe to these theories.

De La, Lupe, Com, Mos Def, Talib, Immortal Technique, etc, etc.

That's just MY opinion, I'm not hating, I just don't like cats that talk that dumb negro stuff ALL THE TIME.

*Bumps Itsoweezee:rockon: *

[Go Getter]

Its not that simple though. Rass Kass and Canibus can rap. but they can rarely make good songs. What...they cant find good producers much of the time?

Its the kind of song you set out to make and the feel you want.

Ross makes better songs than many people who can make more complex verses. I could do what my girl does and...read lyrics(shes a poet...likes doing that). Or I can listen to a song. I like to listen to songs.

Lot of "better" rappers seem to be worse makers of music with no worse access to producers.

That's not true. Most cats can't afford 80k to get a Pharell or Timbaland beat that would make most any rapper sound dope.

Ross has a good production team that knows what the listeners want. Half the time his lyrics don't measure up to the track.

[L.Kizzle]

This. I liken him to Young Jeezy. I loved Thug Motivation 101, but for the beats not for Jeezy's bs dope sptories.
He's made songs called MC Hamer and 2Pac's Back. His next track should be called "I'm Master P" cause that's who he is. Hot beats and mediocore raps with the occasional tight verse or two.

[Kblaze8855]

Most rappers dont have major label deals. But most that do still dont make music nearly as good as Ross including most who rap "better". And plenty og underground rappers manage to make betterm usic with better beats that guys with major label deals and star producers.

It isnt money....

Some people just write great paper verses they dont know how to make a song out of.

[Kblaze8855]

He's made songs called MC Hamer and 2Pac's Back. His next track should be called "I'm Master P" cause that's who he is. Hot beats and mediocore raps with the occasional tight verse or two.

He did make "300 soldiers" which pretty much is him being Master P. However...

Master P never had a tight verse.

I say that having played half of Ghetto D earlier today just by chance.

[L.Kizzle]

He did make "300 soldiers" which pretty much is him being Master P. However...

Master P never had a tight verse.

I say that having played half of Ghetto D earlier today just by chance.
P has had some dope verses bruh.

[Kblaze8855]

The only verse worth remembering on a P album was Cmurder on Ghetto D.

*makes his way to the kitchen where the stove be*

[Fawker]

i like rozay. he has great sense of lyrics. he understands it, definitely has a different pattern than the southern influence. at least not someone quick to be dismissed. you can tell he puts in time, crafts it from the start. his verses are tailored for the song. magnificent is just beautiful. that is song crafting. when it comes to mainstream coming from that region, he and t.i. are the only ones that really understand and get it.

[Go Getter]

Most rappers dont have major label deals. But most that do still dont make music nearly as good as Ross including most who rap "better". And plenty og underground rappers manage to make betterm usic with better beats that guys with major label deals and star producers.

It isnt money....

Some people just write great paper verses they dont know how to make a song out of.


What classic songs does Ross have?

There are many lesser acts with more hits.

Dude makes music for a small crowd.

[Go Getter]

i like rozay. he has great sense of lyrics. he understands it, definitely has a different pattern than the southern influence. at least not someone quick to be dismissed. you can tell he puts in time, crafts it from the start. his verses are tailored for the song. magnificent is just beautiful. that is song crafting. when it comes to mainstream coming from that region, he and t.i. are the only ones that really understand and get it.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8oVHTAmG1ZI

Trick Daddy>Rick Ross

[L.Kizzle]

The only verse worth remembering on a P album was Cmurder on Ghetto D.

*makes his way to the kitchen where the stove be*
I'm guessing you never heard his Ice Cream Man album. Ice Cream >> Ghetto D.

[Go Getter]

I'm guessing you never heard his Ice Cream Man album. Ice Cream >> Ghetto D.
P was terrible to me (I know, I'm a harsh critic) but GD was not better than ICM...both were better than Game face though.

[L.Kizzle]

P was terrible to me (I know, I'm a harsh critic) but GD was not better than ICM...both were better than Game face though.
Exactly, I'm saying Ice Cream Man >> Ghetto D. But The Ghetto's Tryin to Kill Me >> both, but that album is before he was well known.

[Kblaze8855]

I lived in the south from about 92-02. I did not miss ice cream man.

[L.Kizzle]

I lived in the south from about 92-02. I did not miss ice cream man.
You're tellin me Ice Cream Man P is not similar to current Rick Ross and Ross is that much better of a rhymer than P?

[Kblaze8855]

Nothing even close. Master P rapping wise was damn near Gucci man bad. In fact a friend of mine told me he listens to Gucci partly because it reminds him of P back in the day. Different styles but the same basic level. P never could rap. At all. he was better than Silk though. Got damn Silk was awful....

But P? Just simple shit like this:


Kilograms were the key to my success
I apologize being so discreet with my connects
Lamborghini's were figments of my imagination
Whoever figured the figures this figure would be making?
Plenty cream my women pose like figurines
Whips weaving through traffic the triple black centipedes

P couldnt fit that many syllables into 6 lines on his best day and its just the first couple seconds from the last ross song I heard.

P had no flow and almost never did. He just talked. Didnt really ride the beat well. He wasnt one of the 5 best rappers on No Limit(Fiend, Mystical, Cmurder, Mia X, and of course snoop in his brief run).

Couldnt put P on a track with Jay Z, Nas, Jada, or Wale and not have him sound like a "WTF?" interruption to an otherwise good song. Ross fits in with anyone. Really...you picture Master P saying anything like:


"We the lost symbols speakin cryptic codes
Ancient wisdom valuable like gifts of Gold
I embark on life my path is all math
I understand the codes these hackers can't crack
I understand the folks expect me to fold
Community control to violate parole
I wont fail but a lot of men will
I'm iconic in the field like Solomon's Seal
Uh, it's just in an intro
Allow my flow time to sink into the temple
Freemason, freelancer
Free agents, we faster
Big contracts, big contractors
Built pyramids, period, we masters
No Caterpillers, it was just a lot of ******
A lot of great thinkers and a lot of great inventors



The same basic subject matter doesnt make them close as rappers.

[L.Kizzle]

Nothing even close. Master P rapping wise was damn near Gucci man bad. In fact a friend of mine told me he listens to Gucci partly because it reminds him of P back in the day. Different styles but the same basic level. P never could rap. At all. he was better than Silk though. Got damn Silk was awful....

But P? Just simple shit like this:


Kilograms were the key to my success
I apologize being so discreet with my connects
Lamborghini's were figments of my imagination
Whoever figured the figures this figure would be making?
Plenty cream my women pose like figurines
Whips weaving through traffic the triple black centipedes

P couldnt fit that many syllables into 6 lines on his best day and its just the first couple seconds from the last ross song I heard.

P had no flow and almost never did. He just talked. Didnt really ride the beat well. He wasnt one of the 5 best rappers on No Limit(Fiend, Mystical, Cmurder, Mia X, and of course snoop in his brief run).

Couldnt put P on a track with Jay Z, Nas, Jada, or Wale and not have him sound like a "WTF?" interruption to an otherwise good song. Ross fits in with anyone. Really...you picture Master P saying anything like:


"We the lost symbols speakin cryptic codes
Ancient wisdom valuable like gifts of Gold
I embark on life my path is all math
I understand the codes these hackers can't crack
I understand the folks expect me to fold
Community control to violate parole
I wont fail but a lot of men will
I'm iconic in the field like Solomon's Seal
Uh, it's just in an intro
Allow my flow time to sink into the temple
Freemason, freelancer
Free agents, we faster
Big contracts, big contractors
Built pyramids, period, we masters
No Caterpillers, it was just a lot of ******
A lot of great thinkers and a lot of great inventors



The same basic subject matter doesnt make them close as rappers.
Gucci Mane, I'm not saying Percy was the deepest rapper on earth, but he rapped about more real things than Gucci. Ironic thing, Master P is gettin back into rap and is making a new film with Gucci Mane.

But come on man, admit it, Rick Ross is Master P. Tell me this isn't Rick Ross? Same melodic tracks and everything. He even has a signature sound effect like Master P. :lol


The Ghetto Won't Change (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8g91krE0vM4)
Sellin' Ice Cream (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPtfd47xgwM)
I Got The Hook-Up (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=afzk7nMBWvc&feature=channel_video_title)

[Kblaze8855]

Master P was the 90s Birdman in virtually every way. New Orleans label owners who cant rap, sign up kids, blew up with electronic sounding dumb beats while trying to inject some soul at times while pumping out young groups 3 a months looking for one to blow up. Even had the same wacky idiotic album covers.

P was nothing...the least bit...at all..in any way...ever...similar to what Ross is now. They just both rapped about drugs and money. which pretty much makes them both...rappers from the south....

[L.Kizzle]

Master P was the 90s Birdman in virtually every way. New Orleans label owners who cant rap, sign up kids, blew up with electronic sounding dumb beats while trying to inject some soul at times while pumping out young groups 3 a months looking for one to blow up. Even had the same wacky idiotic album covers.

P was nothing...the least bit...at all..in any way...ever...similar to what Ross is now. They just both rapped about drugs and money. which pretty much makes them both...rappers from the south....
Baby << Master P = Rick Ross.

[Kblaze8855]

I know 14 yeaolds who freestyle better than P recorded on official albums.

[L.Kizzle]

I know 14 yeaolds who freestyle better than P recorded on official albums.
Same could be said for Rozzay.

[Kblaze8855]

This is no different from people acting like wayne is the same as gucci. Some people just get hated on.

[L.Kizzle]

can we stop with this ignorance? gucci isn't even mainstream. and is he a lyricist you might think he sucks dick at it. but he's still trying to rap, quite the opposite of ross who's obviously much more focused on grunts and hooks.



yes because you've listened to gucci. i really believe that.
Burr

[Kblaze8855]

If anyone is more grunt and hook driven than ross its gucci. Guy names mixtapes after his adlibs....

[NastaMaverick]

don't see the appeal of rick ross at all...and i don't agree that w/e song he features on, becomes his song. just listen to this for example-- http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x4lB3mvuoTk would be soooo much better w/o officer ricky...

[Kblaze8855]

Always funny to me when someone asks if ive listened to Gucci. As if he has songs like Tears of Joy or Tie my hands like Wayne and Ross fans have to point out that people who only hear them on the radio dont know about.

And yes. Ive heard virtually everything the guy ever did. I live a quick ride down 85 from Atlanta. My friends play him. I hear him in clubs and so on. And ive heard his albums when they come out because usually I burn them when they drop for my people who want the albums.

Friend of mine who lived with me for a while had some gucci song that went:

"You big cat...you big *****...you big piece of shit...you tried to trick the Gucci!"

as his alarm.

Ive heard it all.

Guy just is not good at rapping or making rap music. I cant believe you posted Photoshoot as evidence otherwise.

Gucci has not even learned to enunciate.

Hes generally just rambling nonsense. Especially on mixtapes. On official albums hes more clear since im sure there is more work done in the studio to clean it up. But hes never just...good. Or even decent really. And this I really cant believe:


and is he a lyricist you might think he sucks dick at it. but he's still trying to rap, quite the opposite of ross who's obviously much more focused on grunts and hooks.

Really? gucci isnt as focused on grunts and hooks? Thats unbelievable. Talking about a guy who sounds like hes eternally trying to clear a head cold, growling, or yelling "Burr!" so much he names his mixtapes The Burrprint? And the Burrprint 2?

Its like we are talking about two different people....

[emsteez forreal]

agreed. rich off cocaine is my shit.

[Kblaze8855]

What it has to do with anything?

You mentioned Gucci...the most "burr!" "rah!" spit gathering, grunting rapper of all time...as a guy who isnt doing a lot of grunting.

Just doesnt add up.

And if Gucci is really focused on his lyrics and the best he comesu p with is his garbage...hes worst than I thought. I always assumed he just didnt care.

[Kblaze8855]

Fabolous can rap. Fabolous can speak clearly while rapping. Gucci is nothing like him or any other punchline rapper.

[Kblaze8855]

You consider it creative to have poor enunciation?

[Gundress]

Rick Ross is totally f*cking garbage along with Young Jeezy and Lil' Wayne, etc.

He sounds the same sh!t on the all beats and his flow sounds the same shit on the all beats and people said he got the best beat selection but he couldn't murder the beats. This dude is not that great lyrical.

Rick Ross is f*cking boring to me.

[Skywalker]

al thornton would get banned if i was a mod for actually liking that horsesh!t he listens to omfg

gucci mane
lil b
v nasty

ROFLMAO r u jooooking

[Gundress]

yes, in gucci's case. it's completely deliberate...

Al Thornton

Stop playing.....I know you don't like whack ass music.

He's trolling with you guys.

[PowerGlove]

there are clear similarities as i pointed out. gucci's incoherence is both a creative choice and the southern drawl.

but i know i know in rap, creativity is bad. : )
:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

u gotta be trolling

[PowerGlove]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k1O0dgE8Bzs

you're saying that's not intentional? i know he gets fvcked up a lot but cmon.

off topic but, kaiiu can you translate that first verse?

its intentional but its not creative, its just stupid.

[Go Getter]

Master P was the 90s Birdman in virtually every way. New Orleans label owners who cant rap, sign up kids, blew up with electronic sounding dumb beats while trying to inject some soul at times while pumping out young groups 3 a months looking for one to blow up. Even had the same wacky idiotic album covers.

P was nothing...the least bit...at all..in any way...ever...similar to what Ross is now. They just both rapped about drugs and money. which pretty much makes them both...rappers from the south....


Birdman has never and will never glean even half the personal success as a rap artist that P did.


P>>>>>>>>>>>>Birdman.

Without P Birdman might not even exist.

Universal gave the Hot Boys/Cash Money that huge advance because of what P accomplished.

[Dizzle-2k7]

ross has mad presence , but lyrically he is boring as ***. how anyone can compare him to biggie and nas is beyond me. :wtf:

[L.Kizzle]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VNFpaj095C4

Remember this video Blaze? Damn, homie sounded like Cam'Ron (and looked like a fat version of him too.) Dudes style totally changed up since then, lol.

I remember when this video came I out, I always wondered who the fat kid in the throwback Wilt Chamberlain baby jersey was. :roll:

[Just2McFly]

Just heard tears of joy and I want to cry my damn self. That song is so beautiful man, I'm gonna buy this album on vinyl to add to my collection. Cee-lo crooning with Ross' voice and flow is just too much for me.