Kobe ranked the 7th best player in the league right now according to ESPN ranks

[EricForman]

they haven't officially announced it but Royce Webb has given enough hints to know that Kobe is 7. it's based on a vote of 90+ NBA journalists.

I'm just starting this right now, so we can spare the Alphwolfs and Eliteballer starting 11 threads with misleading/agenda-driven titles.

[Scoooter]

Too high.

[JordanTime]

Too high.

+ 1

He should be 9th or better yet not even in the top 10.

[EricForman]

all jokes aside, I think kobe sould be anywhere from 3 to 8, i mean, the gap between, say, 4 and 7 is absolute minimal anyway. i just think it's gonna be hilarious on sports radio today with all the mexicans calling in angry.

[JordanTime]

all jokes aside, I think kobe sould be anywhere from 3 to 8, i mean, the gap between, say, 4 and 7 is absolute minimal anyway. i just think it's gonna be hilarious on sports radio today with all the mexicans calling in angry.


No way.

Dwight Howard
Dwyane Wade
Kevin Durant
Lebron James
Dirk Nowitzki
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Carmelo Anthony
Amare

were clearly better than Kobe Bryant last season. Kobe is loved by ESPN like hetic. He should be out of the top 10 and should be replaced by either Amare or Carmelo who im my opinion are too low. 13th and 12th lol

[All Net]

I think 4-7 is fair

[Jacks3]

Too low. He should be top 5.

lol @ those morons saying too high.

:facepalm

[EricForman]

No way.

Dwight Howard
Dwyane Wade
Kevin Durant
Lebron James
Dirk Nowitzki
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Carmelo Anthony
Amare

were clearly better than Kobe Bryant last season. Kobe is loved by ESPN like hetic. He should be out of the top 10 and should be replaced by either Amare or Carmelo who im my opinion are too low. 13th and 12th lol

Let's not get carried away here. I'm probably considered a Kobe hater on ISH because I l0ngcat and destroy the Kobe trolls on a daily basis, but Kobe is not an inferior basketball player than Amare and Carmelo, two absolute one dimensional player who can score and do nothing else. Amare and Carmelo shouldn't sniff the top ten, I've been saying this for years, and I'm glad ESPN and SI's list this summer backs that up.

[Jacks3]

Though it's hilarious that the OP felt the need to create this thread with all the bitching he does. :oldlol:

[EricForman]

Though it's hilarious that the OP felt the need to create this thread with all the bitching he does. :oldlol:

this thread was gonna be created by you and your goons anyway (only with a ridiculous, agenda-driven thread title) i might as well beat you to it. besides, i pride myself in being able to decipher ESPN's stupid hints. we still got people wondering if #7 will be Dirk or Lebron (LOL!) on the other thread when it's clear as day it's gonna be Kobe.

[Droid101]

No way.

Dwight Howard
Dwyane Wade
Kevin Durant
Lebron James
Dirk Nowitzki
Chris Paul
Derrick Rose
Carmelo Anthony
Amare

were clearly better than Kobe Bryant last season. Kobe is loved by ESPN like hetic. He should be out of the top 10 and should be replaced by either Amare or Carmelo who im my opinion are too low. 13th and 12th lol
You're a funny guy.

[DuMa]

Hes not top 5 and will be borderline top 10 after this year.

[JordanTime]

Let's not get carried away here. I'm probably considered a Kobe hater on ISH because I l0ngcat and destroy the Kobe trolls on a daily basis, but Kobe is not an inferior basketball player than Amare and Carmelo, two absolute one dimensional player who can score and do nothing else. Amare and Carmelo shouldn't sniff the top ten, I've been saying this for years, and I'm glad ESPN and SI's list this summer backs that up.

Carmelo Anthony is not an one dimensional player. He is a good playmaker, and excellent rebounder for his position(he led all SF in rebounding).

How does that make him one dimensional player?!

[JordanTime]

You're a funny guy.

location:Southern California

that doesn't surprise me one bit

[bagelred]

We were told it was an MVP at #7. So it's either Dirk, Lebron, or Kobe.

I'm guessing Kobe.

[Jacks3]

OMG! A dude in his 16th year, well past his prime, playing on busted knees and fingers, with 45,000+ minutes, is only the the 7th best player!

Oh the shame!Oh the humanity!

[bagelred]

It's official. It's Kobe.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

location:Southern California

that doesn't surprise me one bit

Username: JordanTime

Oh the irony

But on the real tip, people shouldn't get too upset over ESPN rankings. They don't actually mean anything. They were saying LeBron was the undisputed best last year and the year before and he crumbled in both post seasons. They were saying Kobe was declining in '09 and '10 and that his time as best player in the league was over but he lead his team to two straight titles. Dirk wasn't even considered a Top 5 player coming into last season but he led his team to a title.

[bagelred]

well damn i'm glad you made it official...nobody coulda guessed it was Kobe at 7 until you said it. and LOL, at the other thread you were saying you think it's Dirk. boy Batman must take deducing lessons from you.

Let's see.......

1. I said "it's official" because I received the tweet saying it was Kobe.

2. I might have said Dirk BEFORE we received tweets saying "we are going to be surprised". That obviously meant it was Kobe.

3. You're a douche.

4. You erased your post. That also means you're a tool.

[DirtySanchez]

Too low. He should be top 5.

lol @ those morons saying too high.

:facepalm

It's the anti Kobe attitude...instead of saying he won titles with Shaq blah blah blah it is now Kobe is to old and lost a step. Kobe's been proving them wrong...with all this rest watch him do it again.

[Jacks3]

It's the anti Kobe attitude...instead of saying he won titles with Shaq blah blah blah it is now Kobe is to old and lost a step. Kobe's been proving them wrong...with all this rest watch him do it again.
+1

[pauk]

now its only 7 players left unranked...

lebron, durant, kobe, dwight, dirk, wade and chris paul...

1. lebron
2. dwight
3. wade
4. dirk
5. durant
6. chris paul
7. kobe

it seems like it will be like that

[DevilsAssassin]

now its only 7 players left unranked...

lebron, durant, kobe, dwight, dirk, wade and chris paul...

1. lebron
2. dwight
3. wade
4. dirk
5. durant
6. chris paul
7. kobe

it seems like it will be like that

i have a feeling ESPN is going to have Wade at 5th and Kevin Durant at 3rd.

[pauk]

i have a feeling ESPN is going to have Wade at 5th and Kevin Durant at 3rd.

u never know

[Mr Clutch Melo]

BLAKE GRIFFIN AT 10 :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Doctor Rivers]

Let's see.......

1. I said "it's official" because I received the tweet saying it was Kobe.

2. I might have said Dirk BEFORE we received tweets saying "we are going to be surprised". That obviously meant it was Kobe.

3. You're a douche.

4. You erased your post. That also means you're a tool.

hahaha EricForman OWNED

[pauk]

BLAKE GRIFFIN AT 10 :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

why not? He had easily one of the best rookie seasons in NBA history...

1. Averaged 23 ppg, 12 rpg, 4 apg, 51% FG
2. Was one of the only rookies in NBA history to be All-Star
3. Slam Dunk Champion
4. Rookie of the Year / Rookie 1st team

you could argue him being ranked even better actually....

[rigor]

Dude got swept outta the 2nd round last year... so I don't see how he can be considered a top 5 for last season. He's aging. Kobe fans need to realize he isn't going to stay a top 5 or top 10 player forever. Everyone great goes through this.

[DirtySanchez]

Dude got swept outta the 2nd round last year... so I don't see how he can be considered a top 5 for last season. He's aging. Kobe fans need to realize he isn't going to stay a top 5 or top 10 player forever. Everyone great goes through this.

True but I think the rest and surgery he had on his knee is going to help him. 33 ain't that old he is on the good side of 35. But there is no denying that the miles can get to him cause he has been playing since he was in his teens plus most seasons have been long because the Lakers go deep in the playoffs all the time. But with Kobe's work ethic etc. his body is in good shape for at least another two good seasons or more being at least in the top 10 players of b-ball.

[EricForman]

Let's see.......

1. I said "it's official" because I received the tweet saying it was Kobe.

2. I might have said Dirk BEFORE we received tweets saying "we are going to be surprised". That obviously meant it was Kobe.

3. You're a douche.

4. You erased your post. That also means you're a tool.


I erased my post because I realized that, TECHNICALLY, you had a point (in waiting until the official word). Although it was 99.99999999999% clear that it was Kobe going by clues leading in, and yet you were either too square to take the hints and up until minutes before the "official tweet" you were still pulling the "hmmmm i think it could be Kobe" post, which was ridiculous given how i already started this thread and others already all concluded it was Kobe. It was like you didn't care for or didn't read any of that and pretended like your post was the first post on guessing the identity of the 7th player. WTF?

I mean, it's okay, you like to play it safe, don't like to take chances. Even if the clues paint the picture that it's Kobe and me and other posters have figured it out, you gotta pretend like you're the "official word". okay.

[bdreason]

7 sounds about right.

[ihatetimthomas]

As a Lakers fan, I dont have a problem with this. The guys ahead of him are elite players and had better seasons. the gap between 4-7 is not huge. Being ranked 7 is not a bad thing, especially after he played through the season very banged up.

[rigor]

True but I think the rest and surgery he had on his knee is going to help him. 33 ain't that old he is on the good side of 35. But there is no denying that the miles can get to him cause he has been playing since he was in his teens plus most seasons have been long because the Lakers go deep in the playoffs all the time. But with Kobe's work ethic etc. his body is in good shape for at least another two good seasons or more being at least in the top 10 players of b-ball.

Athletes that are very high on their conditioning are playing at higher levels at higher ages than ever before. Will certainly be interesting to see how Kobe can sustain in the next few seasons. Obviously the extended time off is going to help all these older stars & players coming off serious injuries. Kobe, KG, Paul Pierce, Udonis Haslem, Mike Miller, etc.

[pegasus]

He will be top-3 next season, book it.

[ukplayer4]

that seems a bit low to me 4, 5 or 6 seems about right. taking everything into consideration. its still kobe bryant.

[Dragonyeuw]

How much longer do you guys see Kobe hanging around? If there's a dramatic decline in say, 3 years, do you think he'll hang around or retire while he's still a relevant player? Of course it probably comes down to how much longer he can fight his nagging injuries.

[Myth]

why not? He had easily one of the best rookie seasons in NBA history...

1. Averaged 23 ppg, 12 rpg, 4 apg, 51% FG
2. Was one of the only rookies in NBA history to be All-Star
3. Slam Dunk Champion
4. Rookie of the Year / Rookie 1st team

you could argue him being ranked even better actually....

Those 3 don't matter at all when ranking him with the current players.

[IGOTGAME]

As a Lakers fan, I dont have a problem with this. The guys ahead of him are elite players and had better seasons. the gap between 4-7 is not huge. Being ranked 7 is not a bad thing, especially after he played through the season very banged up.
this...i fully expect a better season next year tbh

[Deuce Bigalow]

now its only 7 players left unranked...

lebron, durant, kobe, dwight, dirk, wade and chris paul...

1. lebron
2. dwight
3. wade
4. dirk
5. durant
6. chris paul
7. kobe

it seems like it will be like that

2011 Finals

:roll:

[Cangri]

Well he's behind Dirk, Howard, Lebron, Wade and Durant imo. 6 or 7 sounds good.

[rodman91]

7th is very generous for last season's general performance.I wonder how good he will be this season. If there will be a season.

[G-Funk]

Sounds fair according to last year i suppose. But hopefully these rankings will add fuel to his drive and coming back healthy will move him back to the top 3. Like Forman said 3-7 is too close, A heathy Kobe can easily get back in the convo

[Heavincent]

He'll be top 3 next season. Who cares what ESPN thinks anyway? This isn't factual list.

It's kind of pathetic that Wade wasn't that much better than Kobe this past season. Kobe is old and was fighting injuries for the majority of the year, yet Wade was only a tad bit better :oldlol:

[824]

Same shit new season, ranking is so arbitrary, why do you guys get so caught up in it. Kobe is invaluable, as are a couple of others. He'll do his thing like every year, people will talk about his decline like every year.

[DirtySanchez]

Athletes that are very high on their conditioning are playing at higher levels at higher ages than ever before. Will certainly be interesting to see how Kobe can sustain in the next few seasons. Obviously the extended time off is going to help all these older stars & players coming off serious injuries. Kobe, KG, Paul Pierce, Udonis Haslem, Mike Miller, etc.

That's what I'm saying I will not be surprise if those certain players will start playing like they found the fountain of youth etc. when ever the next season may start...especially if it is just half the season.

[scm5]

don't see a problem with it at all.

his season and postseason were not spectacular at all. he was injured and played like it. until he proves otherwise, he should be ranked as low.

it's also fuel for kobe... which is awesome. i think he's gonna come back and have a great season to prove the doubters wrong.

BTW... he played like he's in the top 10... not any lower.

anyone that says he was lower than top 10 is just hating.

[Miller for 3]

location:Southern California

that doesn't surprise me one bit

Guys this is BruceBlitz on another account. Ignore him and move on

[HiphopRelated]

He'll be top 3 next season. Who cares what ESPN thinks anyway? This isn't factual list.

It's kind of pathetic that Wade wasn't that much better than Kobe this past season. Kobe is old and was fighting injuries for the majority of the year, yet Wade was only a tad bit better :oldlol:
lol, you can believe Wade "wasn't that much better " if you want...eyesight said something different

[ballup]

I'm surprised the NBA forum hasn't already been engulfed with flames.

It's understandable that ESPN ranks Kobe at 7. Idk if he should be under CP3 and Durant though.

[AlphaWolf24]

they haven't officially announced it but Royce Webb has given enough hints to know that Kobe is 7. it's based on a vote of 90+ NBA journalists.

I'm just starting this right now, so we can spare the Alphwolfs and Eliteballer starting 11 threads with misleading/agenda-driven titles.


YAY!!!....ESPN!!...and since we talkin bout ESPN!!...let's see where they ranked Kobe in 2001??...

http://images4.fanpop.com/image/user_images/2162000/AlphaWolf-2162827_2480_3229.jpg

yep...clear as day....Kobe the league's best player at 22

































next

[pegasus]

He was the best player in the world between 2001 and 2009. :applause:

[rodman91]

:lol @ Kobe being best since 2001.

Shaq & Duncan were arguably best players until mid 00's.

[AlphaWolf24]

:lol @ Kobe being best since 2001.

Shaq & Duncan were arguably best players until mid 00's.
not according to ESPN...and others.(even Shaq said he was the best player in the world by 01')

























































next

[Odinn]

Top 7 players;

Kobe;
RS; 25/5/5
PO; 23/3/3

Durant;
RS; 28/7/3
PO; 29/8/3 (2nd round, like Kobe)

CP3;
RS; 16/4/10
PO; 22/7/11.5 (we all know the Lakers-Hornets series)

Nowitzki;
RS; 23/7/3
PO; 28/8/2.5 (an all-time great title-run)

Wade;
RS; 26/6/5
PO; 25/7/4 (NBA Finals)

LeBron;
RS; 27/7.5/7
PO; 24/8/6 (NBA Finals)

Howard;
RS; 23/14/1
PO; 27/15.5/0.5 (one of 2 players who lost in first round, along side CP3)

---

Arguably, Kobe was the worst playoff performer last year in top 7. And his regular season numbers only superior to Nowitzki (and arguably to CP3's numbers).

I think 7th place is accurate for Kobe.

[28renyoy]

LeBron, Durant, Wade, Howard, and Dirk are all CLEARLY better than Kobe. CP3 & Rose are arguably better as well.

Also Kobe was never the best player in the league from 01-04

[DirtySanchez]

OG Afro Kobe number 8 was siiiick!

[eliteballer]

Who cares what a bunch of fukking bloggers say:lol

Now that Kobe's getting his knee right we'll see what happens:pimp:

[eliteballer]

rr please dont comment on anything before 2010. You're clearly too young to have been anymore than a preteen:roll:

[Big#50]

Kobe either comes back super strong next season or some of his stans might kill themselves.

[Heavincent]

Truth hurts, doesn't it?

You clearly don't know shit. Stop embarrassing yourself.

Must be mad because Kobe is a top 10 player all-time and Lebron isn't.

[Jacks3]

LMAO @ RR3. Delusional clown. :oldlol:

[Heavincent]

Wow. So much fail in this post.
2001-02: Shaq and Tim Duncan were clearly better. T-Mac was pretty much equal to him IMO. Kobe was 3rd at best.
2002-03: Shaq, Duncan, KG, and T-Mac were all clearly better. Kobe was 5th.
2003-04: KG and Duncan clearly better, Shaq probably better as well, although he was hurt and getting older. Kobe 3rd at best, probably lower though.
2004-05: One of Kobe's worst years. Nash, Shaq, Duncan, LeBron, KG, Dirk, T-Mac all were better. Barely top 10 that year.
2005-06: Kobe's best year ever. Kobe, LeBron, Dirk, and Wade all had arguments to be the best player that year, with Kobe having a very strong case. Quite possibly Kobe's best case for being number one.
2006-07: Another of Kobe's best years, had a good case for being 1st. Dirk had a great RS, but choked in playoffs....Nash and TD had great years as well. Kobe in top 3 for sure, argument for 1st, but debatable.
2007-08: Kobe's only MVP year, although CP3 deserved it. CP3 was better for sure, LeBron was arguably better. Kobe 2nd or 3rd.
2008-09: LeBron clearly ahead of Kobe starting in this year. Wade and possibly CP3 better as well. Kobe 3rd or 4th.
2009-10: LeBron again clearly better. Others, including Wade and maybe Durant arguable.
2010-2011: Kobe not even top 5. LeBron, D12, Wade, Dirk, Rose all clearly better.

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

[Jacks3]

Kobe--Top 10 ever.

T-Wack--Not even top 40.

Yup. U sad.

[Heavincent]

I said Kobe has a strong argument for having been the number one player in back to back years. I'm sorry that's not good enough for you.

Kobe has a case for #1 in 07-08, and #1 in 09-10 as well. And he was the undisputed #1 in 06-07. Sorry.

[Cali Syndicate]

Kobe shouldn't have made All NBA or All Defensive 1st teams but aside Kobe is still a top 5 player.

[Heavincent]

Kobe has a case for 07-08, but CP3 had the best case. Kobe could certainly be argued to be better than LeBron that year (there, does that make you happy?). Kobe has zero case in 09-10, that was clearly LeBron to anyone with half a brain. And if he was the undisputed best in 05-06 and 06-07 how come he didn't win MVP?

Zero case in 09-10? :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

And Shaq only had 1 MVP yet he was the best player in the league for multiple seasons. MVP doesn't necessarily mean "best".

[Heavincent]

B-b-b-b-b-b-but he had 15 (fifteen count 'em, fifften, not fourteen, FIFTEEN REBOUNDS in game 7!). DA GOAT GAWD :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

A way better playoff run and Finals performance than Lebron could ever hope to have. Deal with it.

[eliteballer]

B-b-b-b-b-b-but he had 15 (fifteen count 'em, fifften, not fourteen, FIFTEEN REBOUNDS in game 7!). DA GOAT GAWD :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

Unlike T-mac, Kobe plays when his knee his hurting:pimp:

[Jacks3]

Not really, I accept the truth unlike some people.
Nah, you're a liar. Just another bitter Kobe-hating phaggett.

:oldlol:

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

I disagree with Kobe having zero case in '09-'10. Especially considering how LeBron went out in the playoffs. Wade got thrashed in the first round, and Howard wasn't quite the player he was last season. I mean the guy led his team to a title as the best player and had a pretty good playoffs. A third straight year of at least 29/5/5

But that's not what this thread is about

[Cali Syndicate]

Kobe--Top 10 ever.

T-Wack--Not even top 40.

Yup. U sad.

Longevity is a huge factor when talking about all time rankings. T-mac falls way back on that list but mainly because his prime was cut short. And obviously due to circumstance, Tmac really never had a viable team to compete. When looking at peaks and talent, Tmac is right there with Kobe.

Both Grant Hill and Penny had superstar potential and could easily at their peaks be considered one of the best in the league. But when all time greats are discussed, neither are even in the convo.

Kinda sucks that players like Tmac, Hill, Penny and many others are lost in translation when talking about great players.

[Cali Syndicate]

I disagree with Kobe having zero case in '09-'10. Especially considering how LeBron went out in the playoffs. Wade got thrashed in the first round, and Howard wasn't quite the player he was last season. I mean the guy led his team to a title as the best player and had a pretty good playoffs. A third straight year of at least 29/5/5

But that's not what this thread is about


Wade didn't get trashed against the Celtics. Wade had an incredible series. Heat may have lost but the Celtics were simply just a far better team.

Had Kobe played like Wade did in the 2010 finals, the series would have been over after 5 games.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Wade didn't get trashed against the Celtics. Wade had an incredible series. Heat may have lost but the Celtics were simply just a far better team.

Had Kobe played like Wade did in the 2010 finals, the series would have been over after 5 games.

Wade did play well. I guess I meant to say the Heat got thrashed by the Celtics.

As far as the 2nd part, I disagree, but also think that is irrelevant.

[Cali Syndicate]

Kobe shouldn't have made either All NBA or All Defensive first teams last season but he was still a top 5 player IMO

[pauk]

http://espn.go.com/nba/story/_/id/7113666/nba-player-rankings-6

Durant is #6

so they actually ranked CP3 higher..

it will end up something like this i guess:




#5 CP3
#4 Dirk
#3 Wade
#2 Dwight
#1 Lebron

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

Kobe's last game in the 2010 playoffs was hideous. If his team hadn't won, he'd be getting blasted for it nonstop.

We could argue "what-ifs" all day. The point is that he lead his team to a title as the best player. That's what matters

I just don't get how he's held to a different standard. He virtually did the same thing that Dirk did last season, yet somehow Dirk jumps to #1 and people like you say Kobe has no case for #1 in '09-'10?

[ShaqAttack3234]

Top 7 for Kobe is pretty accurate based on last season. There were 4 players who were clearly better(Lebron, Dirk, Dwight, Wade), probably Durant and arguably CP3 and Rose. Unsure about those last 2.

Not sure how we'll rank next season, a lot depends on whether he regains some ability or continues to decline as well as how Dirk and Wade age and some younger elite players improve.

Oh, and RRR3, you're underrating Kobe a bit. He was the best from 2006-2008 and I'd rank him 3rd in '09 and 2nd in '10. Top 4 in '03 as well.


:lol @ Kobe being best since 2001.

Shaq & Duncan were arguably best players until mid 00's.

:oldlol: That's just the creature known as Alphawolf, he comes out every now and then to look for any of Kobe's jizz that he can find as it's the only type of nourishment he can survive on. Legend has it that he saw Kobe's dick as a kid and he went insane. Now he usually alone fantasizing about it saying "The precious, the precious" to himself. His other time is spent thinking of ways to give Kobe more credit than he deserves and angle for a way to justify him as the GOAT. This includes using quotes out of context as well as falses stats and clinging to the slightest bit of evidence that can back up his statements about Kobe while ignoring the majority evidence which doesn't(see his love for that 2001 ESPN article). Along the way, he's developed a small cult following, mostly 14 year olds such as The Legend 24 and several others.

[pauk]

We could argue "what-ifs" all day. The point is that he lead his team to a title as arguably the best player (Gasol was awesome and is the biggest reason to why Lakers won these last 2 championships, Kobe would have not won a championship without him). That's what matters

fixed

[RRR3]

Top 7 for Kobe is pretty accurate based on last season. There were 4 players who were clearly better(Lebron, Dirk, Dwight, Wade), probably Durant and arguably CP3 and Rose. Unsure about those last 2.

Not sure how we'll rank next season, a lot depends on whether he regains some ability or continues to decline as well as how Dirk and Wade age and some younger elite players improve.

Oh, and RRR3, you're underrating Kobe a bit. He was the best from 2006-2008 and I'd rank him 3rd in '09 and 2nd in '10. Top 4 in '03 as well.



:oldlol: That's just the creature known as Alphawolf, he comes out every now and then to look for any of Kobe's jizz that he can find as it's the only type of nourishment he can survive on. Legend has it that he saw Kobe's dick as a kid and he went insane. Now he usually alone fantasizing about it saying "The precious, the precious" to himself. His other time is spent thinking of ways to give Kobe more credit than he deserves and angle for a way to justify him as the GOAT. This includes using quotes out of context as well as falses stats and clinging to the slightest bit of evidence that can back up his statements about Kobe while ignoring the majority evidence which doesn't(see his love for that 2001 ESPN article). Along the way, he's developed a small cult following, mostly 14 year olds such as The Legend 24 and several others.

To each their own. Most people in this thread are overrating the **** out of Kobe, though, but I can see your point. Regarldess, he hasn't been better than LeBron since 2008-09, which was my main point. And the alphawolf part of your post is hilarious. :roll: Repped.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

fixed

:oldlol: If that makes you feel better go ahead and be my guest

[Jacks3]

Longevity is a huge factor when talking about all time rankings..
Excuses,excuses.

The fact is, Kobe is top 10 ever.

T-Wack ain't even top 40.

[pauk]

:oldlol: If that makes you feel better go ahead and be my guest

:lol cmon man... he was Lakers most productive player, led them in PER/EFF.. Gasol is the most offensive skilled Center in the NBA... not the most talented, but most skilled

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

:lol cmon man... he was Lakers most productive player, led them in PER/EFF.. Gasol is the most offensive skilled Center in the NBA... not the most talented, but most skilled

RRR3 already said what needed to be said

[pauk]

yes but... dont you agree that its the addition of Gasol which made Lakers that great?

dont you remember what happened during the After-Shaq and Pre-Gasol period for Kobe? There sure was no championships between there

[Jacks3]

Pau before Bryant:

0 All-NBA Teams
0 MVP votes
1 All-Star in 7 seasons
Not even regarded as top 5 at his own position.
Swept in the playoffs three straight years. 0-12.

Yup. Truly the GOAT.

[kizut1659]

lol, you can believe Wade "wasn't that much better " if you want...eyesight said something different

Wade was better but not that much better - 25.5/6/5 on 58% TS% in 37 min. vs. 25.3/5/5 on 54% TS% in 34 min.

[Mr. I'm So Rad]

yes but... dont you agree that its the addition of Gasol which made Lakers that great?

dont you remember what happened during the After-Shaq and Pre-Gasol period for Kobe? There sure was no championships between there

yes but... dont you agree that its the addition of playing with Kobe and Phil that made Gasol great?

dont you remember what happened during the Pre-Kobe period for Gasol? There sure was no playoff wins between there

[Heavincent]

fixed

:roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll: :roll:

Kobe carried that Lakers team to back-to-back championships.

It's not even remotely debatable. Kobe was the best player on that team by FAR. Deal with it.

[RazorBaLade]

yes but... dont you agree that its the addition of Gasol which made Lakers that great?

dont you remember what happened during the After-Shaq and Pre-Gasol period for Kobe? There sure was no championships between there

If your goal was to have a billion dollars, and you had 700 million... And you find 300 million, what was more important? The 300 million that helped you reach your goal? The fact that without the 300 million you wouldn't have been a billionaire? No.. the 700 million was the biggest and most important piece...

The piece to complete the Lakers puzzle was not the biggest piece, and it wasn't the most important, but you needed that piece to complete the puzzle. Simple as that.

[zay_24]

too low :facepalm

[the_wise_one]

they haven't officially announced it but Royce Webb has given enough hints to know that Kobe is 7. it's based on a vote of 90+ NBA journalists.

I'm just starting this right now, so we can spare the Alphwolfs and Eliteballer starting 11 threads with misleading/agenda-driven titles.

Damn that's too high.

[Kurosawa0]

#7 is pretty spot on. He's basically a rich man's Paul Pierce now. He can't carry a team night in and night out like LeBron, Wade, Rose, Durant etc. can, but he can still close. If you take this Kobe and put him on the 06 or 07 Lakers, those teams miss the playoffs.

It's just getting old.

[SuperPippen]

Top 7 for Kobe is pretty accurate based on last season. There were 4 players who were clearly better(Lebron, Dirk, Dwight, Wade), probably Durant and arguably CP3 and Rose. Unsure about those last 2.

Not sure how we'll rank next season, a lot depends on whether he regains some ability or continues to decline as well as how Dirk and Wade age and some younger elite players improve.

Oh, and RRR3, you're underrating Kobe a bit. He was the best from 2006-2008 and I'd rank him 3rd in '09 and 2nd in '10. Top 4 in '03 as well.



:oldlol: That's just the creature known as Alphawolf, he comes out every now and then to look for any of Kobe's jizz that he can find as it's the only type of nourishment he can survive on. Legend has it that he saw Kobe's dick as a kid and he went insane. Now he usually alone fantasizing about it saying "The precious, the precious" to himself. His other time is spent thinking of ways to give Kobe more credit than he deserves and angle for a way to justify him as the GOAT. This includes using quotes out of context as well as falses stats and clinging to the slightest bit of evidence that can back up his statements about Kobe while ignoring the majority evidence which doesn't(see his love for that 2001 ESPN article). Along the way, he's developed a small cult following, mostly 14 year olds such as The Legend 24 and several others.

:oldlol:

You described AlphaWolf better than I ever could.

[with malice]

#7 is pretty spot on. He's basically a rich man's Paul Pierce now. He can't carry a team night in and night out like LeBron, Wade, Rose, Durant etc. can, but he can still close. If you take this Kobe and put him on the 06 or 07 Lakers, those teams miss the playoffs.

It's just getting old.
I agree with this. I think Kobe at #7 is pretty accurate (and I'm a pretty fanatic Lakers fan). Consider his age, and the minutes played - and very few players in the history of the game are this productive, this good at this point in their respective careers.

And when someone starts with a complete slag-off of another poster (especially one that basically starts/finishes in the gutter), then I think it says just as much about them as it does about who's copping it.

[Legends66NBA7]

:oldlol:

You described AlphaWolf better than I ever could.

This describes his "get in my pocket" phrase:

http://scratch.mit.edu/static/projects/pinhead/411427_med.png

He wants to be a Pokemon Master.

My my, the chase is still on. God speed Alpha Wolf. Us ISH posters are all Pokemon (pocket monster is the actualy term) to him.

[Jacks3]

The Greatness of Kobe Bean Bryant!!!
9X All-NBA 1st Team
2X All-NBA 2nd Team
2X All-NBA 3rd Team
9X All-NBA 1st Team Defense
2X All-NBA 2nd Team Defense
5X Top 5 DPOY/9X Top 10 DPOY
13X Time All-Star
4X Time All-Star MVP
2X NBA Finals MVP
1X NBA MVP
10th All-Time in MVP Shares
2X Scoring Champion
5 Time NBA Champion
7 Time NBA Finalist
10 55+ Win Seasons
15X Player of the Month Winner
Slam Dunk Champion (1997)
#1 Offensive APM (10 Year Study)
#10 All-Time in WAR
24 Career Average PER (15 Seasons)
2X Gold Medalist
Sporting News Player of the Decade
TNT Player of the Decade
ESPN Player of the Decade
Sports Illustrated Top 20 Male Athlete of the Decade (2000s) #7 (the only NBA player in the top 10)


Has more 50+ point games than any player in history not named Wilt or Jordan (25)
Has more 40+ point games than any player in history not named Wilt or Jordan (110)
Has more 60+ point games than any player in history not named Wilt (5)
Record Holder: Highest percentage of team points (2005-2006)
Record Holder: Most threes in one game (12)
Only player in history to score at least 600 points in three consecutive post-seasons
2001-2010 RS: 28.6 PPG/5.7 RPG/5.4 APG/1.7 SPG/0.6 BPG/56% TS
2001-2010 PS: 28.8 PPG/5.8 RPG/5.2 APG/1.8 SPG/0.6 BPG/56% TS
Some of his best seasons:
35 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/0.5 BPG/56% TS
32 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.5 BPG/58% TS
30 PPG/7 RPG/6 APG/2 SPG/1 BPG/55% TS
29 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/0.6 BPG/55% TS
28 PPG/6 RPG/6 APG/2 SPG/0.5 BPG/58% TS
27 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.5 BPG/56% TS
27 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.4 BPG/55% TS
28 PPG/6 RPG/6 APG/1.4 SPG/0.5 BPG/56% TS
26 PPG/6 APG/6 RPG/2 SPG/0.6 BPG/55% TS
Some of his best post-seasons:
29 PPG/7 RPG/6 APG/2 SPG/1 BPG/56% TS (16 games)
27 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/0.5 BPG/52% TS (22 games)
30 PPG/6 APG/6 APG/1.4 SPG/0.5 BPG/58% TS (22 games)
30 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.4 BPG/57% TS (23 games)
29 PPG/6 RPG/6 APG/1.4 SPG/0.4 BPG/57% TS (23 games)
29 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/1.3 SPG/0.3 BPG/58% TS (7 games)
33 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/1.4 SPG/0.4 BPG/56% TS (5 games)
4 straight 45+ point games (2006)
4 straight 50+ point games (2007)
9 straight 40+ point games (2003)
13 straight 35+ point games (2003)
81 pts
62 points in three quarters. Outscored opposing team by himself.
27 40+ point games in one season (Only Wilt/Jordan have done that)
10 50+ point games in one season (Only player beside Wilt to do so)
Has three different games where he scored 30+ in one quarter.
Has six different games where he scored 50+ pts though three quarters.
Has five different months where he averaged 40+ PPG.
One of seven players ever with 25,000 pts/5,000 rbs/5,000 asts
6th on All-Time Scoring List
4th on All-Time Playoff Scoring List

:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[D-Wade316]

He's in the right place. He's in the 7-8 range.

[AlphaWolf24]

Top 7 for Kobe is pretty accurate based on last season. There were 4 players who were clearly better(Lebron, Dirk, Dwight, Wade), probably Durant and arguably CP3 and Rose. Unsure about those last 2.

Not sure how we'll rank next season, a lot depends on whether he regains some ability or continues to decline as well as how Dirk and Wade age and some younger elite players improve.

Oh, and RRR3, you're underrating Kobe a bit. He was the best from 2006-2008 and I'd rank him 3rd in '09 and 2nd in '10. Top 4 in '03 as well.



:oldlol: That's just the creature known as Alphawolf, he comes out every now and then to look for any of Kobe's jizz that he can find as it's the only type of nourishment he can survive on. Legend has it that he saw Kobe's dick as a kid and he went insane. Now he usually alone fantasizing about it saying "The precious, the precious" to himself. His other time is spent thinking of ways to give Kobe more credit than he deserves and angle for a way to justify him as the GOAT. This includes using quotes out of context as well as falses stats and clinging to the slightest bit of evidence that can back up his statements about Kobe while ignoring the majority evidence which doesn't(see his love for that 2001 ESPN article). Along the way, he's developed a small cult following, mostly 14 year olds such as The Legend 24 and several others.


:applause: :applause: :applause:



http://images5.fanpop.com/image/user_images/3055000/AlphaWolf-3055263_1077_690.jpg



Hey I didn't make the rules....People know game when they see it.....Most knowlegable fans know the Kobe is a better player then Shaq....

he was recognized as the best player as early as 2001...he is widely viewed as the greatest player of his generation....

he is already a top 5 alltime player.....yeah Big men are great.....But skilled players that capture the imagination of fans are veiwed as more valuable and greater players then Bigs who have no skill 5' beyond the Hoop...




Kobe is a better player then Shaq...he was in 01'...and he is now and alltime.....the people have spoken.





next

[ShaqAttack3234]

:applause: :applause: :applause:



http://images5.fanpop.com/image/user_images/3055000/AlphaWolf-3055263_1077_690.jpg



Hey I didn't make the rules....People know game when they see it.....Most knowlegable fans know the Kobe is a better player then Shaq....

he was recognized as the best player as early as 2001...he is widely viewed as the greatest player of his generation....

he is already a top 5 alltime player.....yeah Big men are great.....But skilled players that capture the imagination of fans are veiwed as more valuable and greater players then Bigs who have no skill 5' beyond the Hoop...




Kobe is a better player then Shaq...he was in 01'...and he is now and alltime.....the people have spoken.





next

:oldlol: Nice try man, except for several things. I'm not a big man(5'8"-5'9" and skinny), I've never been to California(don't know where Thousand Oaks is or where you got that from) and luckily, there's very little history of baldness in my family so I should have my hair for many more years to come. :pimp: I do have several Dio shirts, though. :rockon:

NBA's 50 best players, as chosen by general managers and personnel men. (2001-2002) season


That's why Shaq tops THE SPORTING NEWS list of the NBA's 50 best players. We asked one general manager or personnel man from each team to rank the league's top players based on current ability--not potential or past performance--and O'Neal came up No. 1 on 15 of the 18 ballots received.


It doesn't hurt the Lakers that teammate Kobe Bryant finished second in the balloting. Bryant received just one No. 1 vote

http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-1582371/The-new-1-2-Shaq.html

Shaq= higher finish in MVP voting and Finals MVP all 3 years of the 3peat.

w/ Shaq and w/o Kobe from 2000-2002: 25-6 record
w/ Kobe and w/o Shaq from 2000-2002: 13-12

Yup, u mad.

[AlphaWolf24]

:oldlol: Nice try man, except for several things. I'm not a big man(5'8"-5'9" and skinny), I've never been to California(don't know where Thousand Oaks is or where you got that from) and luckily, there's very little history of baldness in my family so I should have my hair for many more years to come. :pimp: I do have several Dio shirts, though. :rockon:

NBA's 50 best players, as chosen by general managers and personnel men. (2001-2002) season





http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/gi_0199-1582371/The-new-1-2-Shaq.html

Shaq= higher finish in MVP voting and Finals MVP all 3 years of the 3peat.

w/ Shaq and w/o Kobe from 2000-2002: 25-6 record
w/ Kobe and w/o Shaq from 2000-2002: 13-12

Yup, u mad.


FIXED

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/user_images/3055000/AlphaWolf-3055395_1077_690.jpg

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1600/kobepotd.jpg

http://bestplayerontheplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/kobePetition.png

[ShaqAttack3234]

FIXED

http://images5.fanpop.com/image/user_images/3055000/AlphaWolf-3055395_1077_690.jpg

http://img192.imageshack.us/img192/1600/kobepotd.jpg

http://bestplayerontheplanet.com/wp-content/uploads/kobePetition.png

Never been to Florida either, I'll make it easy on you. If you want to make a 3rd attempt, I'm from New York.

Yes, Kobe was probably the best taking the whole 2000-2009 decade into consideration, but not 2001. Here's a gift from you. From your beloved ESPN.


Forget about the Lakers being Kobe's team: Shaq is the true centerpiece.

http://espn.go.com/magazine/bembry_20010616.html


"Allan Houston once said you have to have the best defensive player in the league to play against him, and we had that," said Sixers coach Larry Brown. "[Shaq] is as good as it gets. And I've never seen a better player in my life. And I mean that."

And here's one you must love from shortly before that ESPN article you post daily was written.


``If we had a little better defensive speed, quickness, I'd probaby bench him,'' Jackson said Friday.

[AlphaWolf24]

Never been to Florida either, I'll make it easy on you. If you want to make a 3rd attempt, I'm from New York.

Yes, Kobe was probably the best taking the whole 2000-2009 decade into consideration, but not 2001. Here's a gift from you. From your beloved ESPN.



http://espn.go.com/magazine/bembry_20010616.html



And here's one you must love from shortly before that ESPN article you post daily was written.



NY..oh..I was close...I only had 52 to go...

dang...You aint never been to Cali?...or O Town...FLO Town??.....

No wonder you cranky all the time...





















next

[Jacks3]

The Greatness of Kobe Bean Bryant!!!
9X All-NBA 1st Team
2X All-NBA 2nd Team
2X All-NBA 3rd Team
9X All-NBA 1st Team Defense
2X All-NBA 2nd Team Defense
5X Top 5 DPOY/9X Top 10 DPOY
13X Time All-Star
4X Time All-Star MVP
2X NBA Finals MVP
1X NBA MVP
10th All-Time in MVP Shares
2X Scoring Champion
5 Time NBA Champion
7 Time NBA Finalist
10 55+ Win Seasons
15X Player of the Month Winner
Slam Dunk Champion (1997)
#1 Offensive APM (10 Year Study)
#10 All-Time in WAR
24 Career Average PER (15 Seasons)
2X Gold Medalist
Sporting News Player of the Decade
TNT Player of the Decade
ESPN Player of the Decade
Sports Illustrated Top 20 Male Athlete of the Decade (2000s) #7 (the only NBA player in the top 10)


Has more 50+ point games than any player in history not named Wilt or Jordan (25)
Has more 40+ point games than any player in history not named Wilt or Jordan (110)
Has more 60+ point games than any player in history not named Wilt (5)
Record Holder: Highest percentage of team points (2005-2006)
Record Holder: Most threes in one game (12)
Only player in history to score at least 600 points in three consecutive post-seasons
2001-2010 RS: 28.6 PPG/5.7 RPG/5.4 APG/1.7 SPG/0.6 BPG/56% TS
2001-2010 PS: 28.8 PPG/5.8 RPG/5.2 APG/1.8 SPG/0.6 BPG/56% TS
Some of his best seasons:
35 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/0.5 BPG/56% TS
32 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.5 BPG/58% TS
30 PPG/7 RPG/6 APG/2 SPG/1 BPG/55% TS
29 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/0.6 BPG/55% TS
28 PPG/6 RPG/6 APG/2 SPG/0.5 BPG/58% TS
27 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.5 BPG/56% TS
27 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.4 BPG/55% TS
28 PPG/6 RPG/6 APG/1.4 SPG/0.5 BPG/56% TS
26 PPG/6 APG/6 RPG/2 SPG/0.6 BPG/55% TS
Some of his best post-seasons:
29 PPG/7 RPG/6 APG/2 SPG/1 BPG/56% TS (16 games)
27 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/0.5 BPG/52% TS (22 games)
30 PPG/6 APG/6 APG/1.4 SPG/0.5 BPG/58% TS (22 games)
30 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.4 BPG/57% TS (23 games)
29 PPG/6 RPG/6 APG/1.4 SPG/0.4 BPG/57% TS (23 games)
29 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/1.3 SPG/0.3 BPG/58% TS (7 games)
33 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/1.4 SPG/0.4 BPG/56% TS (5 games)
4 straight 45+ point games (2006)
4 straight 50+ point games (2007)
9 straight 40+ point games (2003)
13 straight 35+ point games (2003)
81 pts
62 points in three quarters. Outscored opposing team by himself.
27 40+ point games in one season (Only Wilt/Jordan have done that)
10 50+ point games in one season (Only player beside Wilt to do so)
Has three different games where he scored 30+ in one quarter.
Has six different games where he scored 50+ pts though three quarters.
Has five different months where he averaged 40+ PPG.
One of seven players ever with 25,000 pts/5,000 rbs/5,000 asts
6th on All-Time Scoring List
4th on All-Time Playoff Scoring List



:bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown: :bowdown:

[L8kersfan222]

Damn Shaqattack getting raped... used to be a good poster when backed up by Lebron fans.. now even they know their hero is falling from grace...
RIP ShaqAttack I give him at least 2 more weeks until he breaks and never comes back.







- RIP Samurai Swoosh

[AlphaWolf24]

Never been to Florida either, I'll make it easy on you. If you want to make a 3rd attempt, I'm from New York.

Yes, Kobe was probably the best taking the whole 2000-2009 decade into consideration, but not 2001. Here's a gift from you. From your beloved ESPN.



http://espn.go.com/magazine/bembry_20010616.html



And here's one you must love from shortly before that ESPN article you post daily was written.

these are pathetic...Allen Houston?.....really?....

that's almost as bad as the Sacremento Bee....:roll:

and since you said you never been to cali.....I'll give you a hint...Sacramento is a big azz manure field....

the newspaper there is a bunch of Hacks....the Hillbilly's in Sac hate L.A....and KJ is the Gov....


and your ESPN article by Jerry Berry says plain as day that they (Kobe and Shaq) are battling for who's team it is...wich is exactly what I've been saying all along...that by 2001 Kobe was just as Good as Shaq and veiwed as the best allaround player...so if they are Battling for control of the team...that proves what I've been saying....

you on the other hand revise History and try to slight Kobe and make it seem like No one was veiwng Kobe as the best.....since you aint never been to Cali.....I'll Give you the break down....Kobe was already viewed as the best player in the NBA by 2001 , especially in Cali.



you Failed Bad ....on those...i know You are somewhat good poster (when not talking about Shaq vs Kobe)who has been following hoops for a while....

but your Kobe slighting game is played and silly.....I can see through your BS...and so can others...



I expected better:cry:












next

[ShaqAttack3234]

these are pathetic...Allen Houston?.....really?....

that's almost as bad as the Sacremento Bee....:roll:

and since you said you never been to cali.....I'll give you a hint...Sacramento is a big azz manure field....

the newspaper there is a bunch of Hacks....the Hillbilly's in Sac hate L.A....and KJ is the Gov....




you Failed Bad ....on those...i know You are somewhat good poster (when not talking about Shaq vs Kobe)who has been following hoops for a while....

but your Kobe slighting game is played and silly.....I can see through your BS...and so can others...



I expected better:cry:












next

The guy who said "Forget about the Lakers being Kobe's team. Shaq is the true centerpiece" was an ESPN writer, just like your hero who called him the best player in the game in January 2001. So are you going to pick and choose when ESPN is credible?

I noticed that you have no response for this from the 2001-2002 season.


That's why Shaq tops THE SPORTING NEWS list of the NBA's 50 best players. We asked one general manager or personnel man from each team to rank the league's top players based on current ability--not potential or past performance--and O'Neal came up No. 1 on 15 of the 18 ballots received.





next

[AlphaWolf24]

The guy who said "Forget about the Lakers being Kobe's team. Shaq is the true centerpiece" was an ESPN writer, just like your hero who called him the best player in the game in January 2001. So are you going to pick and choose when ESPN is credible?

I noticed that you have no response for this from the 2001-2002 season.







next


Read what I added...after you qouted me...


sh!t proves what I've been saying all along.....he was widely viewed as the best player in the League.....If you Think shaq is the best and every other article is about Kobe being great battling Shaq for control of the team....

then that means many had Kobe as Shaq's equal or better....


You trying to act like everyone just thought Shaq was the best.....that never happened...especially on the West Coast....


since you never been here and you're from N.Y.....then it also proves what I've been saying all along...you are full of Sh!t





2EZ









Next

[BEAST Griffin]

Read what I added...after you qouted me...


sh!t proves what I've been saying all along.....he was widely viewed as the best player in the League.....If you Think shaq is the best and every other article is about Kobe being great battling Shaq for control of the team....

then that means many had Kobe as Shaq's equal or better....


You trying to act like everyone just thought Shaq was the best.....that never happened...especially on the West Coast....


since you never been here and you're from N.Y.....then it also proves what I've been saying all along...you are full of Sh!t





2EZ









Next

Your deductive skills are trash. Your responses are full of logical fallacies.




Next.

[ShaqAttack3234]

Read what I added...after you qouted me...


sh!t proves what I've been saying all along.....he was widely viewed as the best player in the League.....If you Think shaq is the best and every other article is about Kobe being great battling Shaq for control of the team....

then that means many had Kobe as Shaq's equal or better....


You trying to act like everyone just thought Shaq was the best.....that never happened...especially on the West Coast....


since you never been here and you're from N.Y.....then it also proves what I've been saying all along...you are full of Sh!t





2EZ









Next

Yet people in the game voted Shaq best in a landslide in the 2001-2002 season? Kobe got 1 vote.

I followed the league at the time, there's never truly been an undisputed best player throughout the season, people always argue, but Shaq was viewed by most as the best during those 3 seasons. Doesn't mean you can't find someone arguing for Kobe. I can't speak about the talk going on in California at the time, or now, but if you want to talk majority, that poll I posted speaks volumes as well as the fact that Shaq was easily finishing higher in MVP voting.

Kobe trying to be the man on the team early in the 2000-2001 season doesn't mean he was as good as Shaq. :wtf:

And since when do you have to go to California to know who the best was? That really makes no sense.

[AlphaWolf24]

Yet people in the game voted Shaq best in a landslide in the 2001-2002 season? Kobe got 1 vote.

I followed the league at the time, there's never truly been an undisputed best player throughout the season, people always argue, but Shaq was viewed by most as the best during those 3 seasons. Doesn't mean you can't find someone arguing for Kobe. I can't speak about the talk going on in California at the time, or now, but if you want to talk majority, that poll I posted speaks volumes as well as the fact that Shaq was easily finishing higher in MVP voting.

Kobe trying to be the man on the team early in the 2000-2001 season doesn't mean he was as good as Shaq. :wtf:

And since when do you have to go to California to know who the best was? That really makes no sense.


No he wasn't.....and I know for a fact here in Cali he wasn't....

Most people in California had Kobe as the better player....ESPN had Kobe as the best player in 2001...most fans here thought Kobe was more Valuable...

Kobe was battling Shaq for control in 2001 because he was already a top 1- 3 player....and many including shaq and P Jax labeled him the best player in the world after the WCFinals...


all this led to the epic battle and eventually Shaq leaving....I'm telling you right now the West Coast was on Kobe's almonds.....Shaq got the Boot...



and we were Right....

[ShaqAttack3234]

No he wasn't.....and I know for a fact here in Cali he wasn't....

Most people in California had Kobe as the better player....ESPN had Kobe as the best player in 2001...most fans here thought Kobe was more Valuable...

Kobe was battling Shaq for control in 2001 because he was already a top 1- 3 player....and many including shaq and P Jax labeled him the best player in the world after the WCFinals...


all this led to the epic battle and eventually Shaq leaving....I'm telling you right now the West Coast was on Kobe's almonds.....Shaq got the Boot...



and we were Right....

Phil said he was the best during the Western Conference finals, not in general. I already posted the quote.

You and I both know that what Shaq says doesn't mean much. How is it that Shaq is somehow reliable when calling Kobe the best in the game, but not reliable when calling Kobe selfish? The fact is, Shaq's quotes don't mean anything. He's the same guy who said Amare was better than KG in 2008 and one of his reasons was in his words "KG doesn't play D".

Shaq also clarified that he considers best and most dominant different things, best meaning most skilled to him.

Kobe called Lamar Odom one of the best players in the game in 2006, should we really pay that much attention to that?

Players will hype up their teammates sometimes. Bird was calling Robert Parish the Celtics MVP in '82. Jordan said the Bulls were Pippen's team in '96. I could go on and on.

And yes, Kobe was top 3 during 2001.

Whoever was most popular on the West Coast proves nothing as far as who was considered the best throughout the entire country, or league. As I've proven with those surveys, most in the league did have Shaq as the best.

[SuperPippen]

No he wasn't.....and I know for a fact here in Cali he wasn't....

Most people in California had Kobe as the better player....ESPN had Kobe as the best player in 2001...most fans here thought Kobe was more Valuable...

Kobe was battling Shaq for control in 2001 because he was already a top 1- 3 player....and many including shaq and P Jax labeled him the best player in the world after the WCFinals...


all this led to the epic battle and eventually Shaq leaving....I'm telling you right now the West Coast was on Kobe's almonds.....Shaq got the Boot...



and we were Right....

How can you possibly argue that a volume scoring wing player is anywhere near as valuable as a dominant big who scores the same amount of points much more efficiently, is his team's only notable rebounder, their defensive anchor, draws the most attention defensively BY FAR, and their most consistent player?

How on earth can someone - even someone as deluded as you - justify that?!?!

Shaq received far more MVP votes, was the Finals MVP (above Kobe, who should have played as well as he did in the Finals as he did in the WCFs), was the Lakers best and most valuable player, and nobody but you, NOBODY, is arguing otherwise.

What does that tell you?

[AlphaWolf24]

Phil said he was the best during the Western Conference finals, not in general. I already posted the quote.

You and I both know that what Shaq says doesn't mean much. How is it that Shaq is somehow reliable when calling Kobe the best in the game, but not reliable when calling Kobe selfish? The fact is, Shaq's quotes don't mean anything. He's the same guy who said Amare was better than KG in 2008 and one of his reasons was in his words "KG doesn't play D".

Shaq also clarified that he considers best and most dominant different things, best meaning most skilled to him.

Kobe called Lamar Odom one of the best players in the game in 2006, should we really pay that much attention to that?

Players will hype up their teammates sometimes. Bird was calling Robert Parish the Celtics MVP in '82. Jordan said the Bulls were Pippen's team in '96. I could go on and on.

And yes, Kobe was top 3 during 2001.

Whoever was most popular on the West Coast proves nothing as far as who was considered the best throughout the entire country, or league. As I've proven with those surveys, most in the league did have Shaq as the best.

West Coast has it's hand on more basketball minds then anywhere....I know people say N.Y. is the mecca....But the West Coast is the pulse of the basketball world...

what we say holds alot of weight....so i Kobe is veiwed as the better player here...then it says alot!!....and what happened???.....Shaq got Bounced.


You said Kobe was top 3 in 01'.....so why is it so hard for you to understand our mentality when most fans here/and many more thought of Kobe as the best player?...

Most GM's would take Lebron james.....:confusedshrug: .....just like Most GM's would have taken David robinson in the early 90's...:confusedshrug:


sorry man....Shaq was a Great player....Kobe was and is and alltime is better




that's real life

[AlphaWolf24]

How can you possibly argue that a volume scoring wing player is anywhere near as valuable as a dominant big who scores the same amount of points much more efficiently, is his team's only notable rebounder, their defensive anchor, draws the most attention defensively BY FAR, and their most consistent player?

How on earth can someone - even someone as deluded as you - justify that?!?!

Shaq received far more MVP votes, was the Finals MVP (above Kobe, who should have played as well as he did in the Finals as he did in the WCFs), was the Lakers best and most valuable player, and nobody but you, NOBODY, is arguing otherwise.

What does that tell you?


Why would you say it's just me??.....when I have shown over and over the veiwpoint of fans then and now!

58% Voted Kobe the greatest player of the 00's....so how am I the only 1???

MVP votes?....You really think Nash was better then Kobe in 06'?....I'm telling all of you.....Kobe was veiwed as a Top 3 player in 01'....and on the west coast he was #1.....shit!..we alone are the 7th largest economy in the world....

we say Kobe>Shaq.....we say Shaq gets the boot.....we say we were right...


as does 99% of the fanbase....Kobe is the run away player of the decade


and it aint even close





next

[OmniStrife]

No he wasn't.....and I know for a fact here in Cali he wasn't....

Most people in California had Kobe as the better player....ESPN had Kobe as the best player in 2001...most fans here thought Kobe was more Valuable...

Kobe was battling Shaq for control in 2001 because he was already a top 1- 3 player....and many including shaq and P Jax labeled him the best player in the world after the WCFinals...


all this led to the epic battle and eventually Shaq leaving....I'm telling you right now the West Coast was on Kobe's almonds.....Shaq got the Boot...



and we were Right....
How can you write in local opinion (=homerism) as part of your debate with a straight face?

[ShaqAttack3234]

West Coast has it's hand on more basketball minds then anywhere....I know people say N.Y. is the mecca....But the West Coast is the pulse of the basketball world...

West Coast fans count just as East Coast fans do. But I got news for you, a region's opinion(and that's assuming what you claim was really correct among West Coast fans) is not the final word.

I can tell you that John Starks was a regional star here in NY, same with Houston and Sprewell. They weren't among the true premier players in the league, but they were legitimate stars here.


what we say holds alot of weight....so i Kobe is veiwed as the better player here...then it says alot!!....and what happened???.....Shaq got Bounced.

Again, that was 3 years later when Shaq was 32 and on the decline. Shaq's decline and Kobe entering his prime at 25/26 was brought up quite a bit as far as which player they favored.

In 2001(the year in question), both reportedly demanded trades, and the Lakers didn't want to trade either at the time, and that was proven to be the correct choice. Though I do remember a rumored Kobe for Kidd/Marion trade and Phil told Kobe that his future with the Lakers could be in jeopardy if he kept feuding with Shaq.


You said Kobe was top 3 in 01'.....so why is it so hard for you to understand our mentality when most fans here/and many more thought of Kobe as the best player?...

Top 3 isn't the same as best. I've never said that Kobe was anything less than an elite player in '01 and '02. That's not my issue. In fact, I've argued on this board with people who I feel diminish his play too much. I've gotten into long arguments with people on this board who insisted that Iverson was better than Kobe in 2001.


Most GM's would take Lebron james.....:confusedshrug: .....just like Most GM's would have taken David robinson in the early 90's...:confusedshrug:

And if we're going to rely on other's opinions to back up our own, then I'd rather take the word of people who are paid a ton of money to evaluate players than casual fans.

Popularity among fans is among the worst ways to judge. Look at T-Mac getting so many all-star votes that one year he barely played, or Vince Carter's selection in 2003, Iverson's selection in Detroit.

Kobe himself was frustrated with the fans and media in 2000-2001. I've posted quotes where he talked about how he thought he had to do more than guys like Carter to get equal recognition.


sorry man....Shaq was a Great player....Kobe was and is and alltime is better

that's real life

If you want to argue that Kobe belongs higher on an all-time list because of his 5 rings or whatever, go ahead. All-time lists are very subjective anyway given different criterias. I'm merely arguing about 2001, which of course is subjective as well, but doesn't have the same amount of variables such as peak play vs longevity, accolades vs actual level of play ect.

[AlphaWolf24]

How can you write in local opinion (=homerism) as part of your debate with a straight face?


Homerism?..both players played on L.A.....

:facepalm

How is saying most Laker fans thought Kobe was better in 01'

[SuperPippen]

Why would you say it's just me??.....when I have shown over and over the veiwpoint of fans then and now!

58% Voted Kobe the greatest player of the 00's....so how am I the only 1??? - We're discussing why Shaq was better and more valuable than Kobe in '01, not that idiotic popularity poll you keep bringing up over and over again.


MVP votes?....You really think Nash was better then Kobe in 06'? - Are you braindead or what? If Shaq got significantly more MVP votes like he did, than that means HE WAS OBvIOUSLY VIEWED AS THE MORE VALUABLE PLAYER IN '01, REGARDLESS OF WHO YOU AND I THINK WAS BETTER

....I'm telling all of you.....Kobe was veiwed as a Top 3 player in 01 - [B]All you've done to back this claim up is say shit like "the West Coast, the real BBALL MECCA, thought Kobe was better" while providing no supporting evidence aside from a couple of quotes and articles, most of which have been taken completely out of context./B]

....and on the west coast he was #1.....shit!..we alone are the 7th largest economy in the world.... - :facepalm What the hell does that economy shit have to do with anything? Just another example of you spewing random, irrelevant bullshit when you can't think of anything else to say. And even if everyone in LA really did think Kobe was better (which I still don't believe they did, as you haven't provided any evidence), it wouldn't matter, because SHAQ WAS STILL OBVIOUSLY BETTER. One needs only to watch a game from that season, or even just look at a box-score to see that.

we say Kobe>Shaq.....we say Shaq gets the boot.....we say we were right...


as does 99% of the fanbase - Legitimately not sure if you know this, but you and the 5 or so other notable Kobe trolls on this forum aren't "99% of the fanbase." Wouldn't be surprised if your basic math skills are as bad as your arguing skills.

.....Kobe is the run away player of the decade - Not the run away best, but has a good case for the best, along with Timmy D.


and it aint even close





next


BTW, you should really........... stop typing like this...........

It really reinforces......... the image of......... a fat breathless nerd...........





Subsequent.

[AlphaWolf24]

West Coast fans count just as East Coast fans do. But I got news for you, a region's opinion(and that's assuming what you claim was really correct among West Coast fans) is not the final word.

I can tell you that John Starks was a regional star here in NY, same with Houston and Sprewell. They weren't among the true premier players in the league, but they were legitimate stars here.

yes it was.....Shaq got the Boot

Again, that was 3 years later when Shaq was 32 and on the decline. Shaq's decline and Kobe entering his prime at 25/26 was brought up quite a bit as far as which player they favored.

uh..the Lakers came off playing in the NBA Finals....Shaq was still Great..he was Just Out of shape...and still complaining about getting the ball....

when he was motivated he was still a great player...your excuse holds little weight...especially how great he looked in Miami 2005

In 2001(the year in question), both reportedly demanded trades, and the Lakers didn't want to trade either at the time, and that was proven to be the correct choice. Though I do remember a rumored Kobe for Kidd/Marion trade and Phil told Kobe that his future with the Lakers could be in jeopardy if he kept feuding with Shaq.


and when Shaq showed up to training camp outta shape many here in So Cal wanted to trade him for KG or even Dirk..I remember talks about getting Dirk for Shaq and Slava

Top 3 isn't the same as best. I've never said that Kobe was anything less than an elite player in '01 and '02. That's not my issue. In fact, I've argued on this board with people who I feel diminish his play too much. I've gotten into long arguments with people on this board who insisted that Iverson was better than Kobe in 2001.

Top 3 is arguably best....and when the Biggest Sports media outlet to go along with Most fans in the Largest Basketball market in the world claim says you are the best....well...maybe you are.


And if we're going to rely on other's opinions to back up our own, then I'd rather take the word of people who are paid a ton of money to evaluate players than casual fans.

I would rather listen to Players/coaches/fans then 20 paid "professionals"

Popularity among fans is among the worst ways to judge. Look at T-Mac getting so many all-star votes that one year he barely played, or Vince Carter's selection in 2003, Iverson's selection in Detroit.

Not according to the NBA itself.....By "Acclamation" is their only defining criteria for determining greatness...

acclamation = "majority voice"....and I 100% agree

in fact ....elitists attitude is the worst way to view sports or judge

and casual fan voting for TMAC's past greatness..is no worse then judging by looking at stats

Kobe himself was frustrated with the fans and media in 2000-2001. I've posted quotes where he talked about how he thought he had to do more than guys like Carter to get equal recognition.



If you want to argue that Kobe belongs higher on an all-time list because of his 5 rings or whatever, go ahead. All-time lists are very subjective anyway given different criterias. I'm merely arguing about 2001, which of course is subjective as well, but doesn't have the same amount of variables such as peak play vs longevity, accolades vs actual level of play ect.


"Greatest player I ever coached" - Phil Jackson 2001





.......next

[AlphaWolf24]

BTW, you should really........... stop typing like this...........

It really reinforces......... the image of......... a fat breathless nerd...........





Subsequent.


so mad....






















next

[with malice]

An ellipsis is only three dots. Most times it's used incorrectly anyway.

[raptorfan_dr07]

58% Voted Kobe the greatest player of the 00's....so how am I the only 1???

That same poll said Lebron James is the second greatest player of the 00's. That alone tells us the legitimacy of that poll.

Shaquille O'Neal was the centerpiece and most valuable player on the 3peat Lakers. The stats and accolades back that up, as well as the Lakers win/loss record with one of them playing and the other not. In 2001, the season you keep talking about, the Lakers, with Shaq, went on a big winning streak, playing their best basketball of the season right before the playoffs WHEN KOBE WAS OUT OF THE LINEUP WITH INJURY. Teams used to gear up on big men to throw at Shaq. Nobody did likewise for Kobe. Hell the Timberwolves even signed fat @$$ Oliver Miller in 2003 to throw at Shaq. Shaq owned the league back then, end of story.

Also, I don't know where the hell you're getting this "LA said Kobe was better in 2001" bullsh*t from. I live in LA, born and raised. Been here my whole life. And I know people who were legitimately upset when Shaq was traded. They thought Kobe was an immature, selfish brat. Obviously, as he matured, he proved them wrong. Not saying there weren't those who felt Kobe was better, as misguided and brainwashed as they may be, but it wasn't anywhere close to a landslide like you're proclaiming it to be.

[L8k3r5]

Too low. He should be top 5.

lol @ those morons saying too high.

:facepalm
THIS

[L8kersfan222]

That same poll said Lebron James is the second greatest player of the 00's. That alone tells us the legitimacy of that poll.

Shaquille O'Neal was the centerpiece and most valuable player on the 3peat Lakers. The stats and accolades back that up, as well as the Lakers win/loss record with one of them playing and the other not. In 2001, the season you keep talking about, the Lakers, with Shaq, went on a big winning streak, playing their best basketball of the season right before the playoffs WHEN KOBE WAS OUT OF THE LINEUP WITH INJURY. Teams used to gear up on big men to throw at Shaq. Nobody did likewise for Kobe. Hell the Timberwolves even signed fat @$$ Oliver Miller in 2003 to throw at Shaq. Shaq owned the league back then, end of story.

Also, I don't know where the hell you're getting this "LA said Kobe was better in 2001" bullsh*t from. I live in LA, born and raised. Been here my whole life. And I know people who were legitimately upset when Shaq was traded. They thought Kobe was an immature, selfish brat. Obviously, as he matured, he proved them wrong. Not saying there weren't those who felt Kobe was better, as misguided and brainwashed as they may be, but it wasn't anywhere close to a landslide like you're proclaiming it to be.


Sorry Shaqattack, Shaq fell off during the 00's
lol nice try switching accounts tho brah :hammertime:

[ShaqAttack3234]

yes it was.....Shaq got the Boot

2 things. Once again...2004, and Shaq demanded the trade as well. He didn't want to be there by that point.


uh..the Lakers came off playing in the NBA Finals....Shaq was still Great..he was Just Out of shape...and still complaining about getting the ball....

And nobody in their right mind would've claimed he was the player that he was in 2001, and there's a big difference between trading a 28/29 year old player with a handful of elite years left and 31/32 year old player who has already started declining. Particularly when talking about the future.


when he was motivated he was still a great player...your excuse holds little weight...especially how great he looked in Miami 2005

Yes, he was very good that year, but nowhere near his 2001 level, and look what happened in '05. He broke down prior to the playoffs and wasn't able to perform anywhere near his regular season level. He also missed playoff games for the first time in his career. He was just a borderline top 10 player by '06 and nowhere near the elite after that. Are you being serious?


Top 3 is arguably best....and when the Biggest Sports media outlet to go along with Most fans in the Largest Basketball market in the world claim says you are the best....well...maybe you are.

Top 3 is exactly what it sounds, like...top 3. I'll give him arguably top 2 for '01, though.

The biggest sports media outlet also claimed Shaq was better just months later in that article I posted.


I would rather listen to Players/coaches/fans then 20 paid "professionals"

Where are all of these players and coaches saying Kobe was better in 2001?


Not according to the NBA itself.....By "Acclamation" is their only defining criteria for determining greatness...

I really don't care.


acclamation = "majority voice"....and I 100% agree

in fact ....elitists attitude is the worst way to view sports or judge

:oldlol:


"Greatest player I ever coached" - Phil Jackson 2001

Here you go again, Phil didn't mean Kobe was the best or greatest player. This is the entire quote where he clearly states that Jordan was the greatest player he ever coached. Once again proving that Phil's statement wasn't calling him the best player in general. He said it's the best he's seen a player of his play with an overall court game and as he explains he's talking about running the offense and also being a scorer.


"I've always held the bar up very high for Kobe and he's not only reached that bar, but he's jumping over the top of it right now," Phil Jackson said. "It's the best that I've seen a player of mine play with an overall court game."

"I never asked Michael to be a playmaker," Jackson said. "That's the greatest player I ever had, that I could consider the greatest player in the game. Yet I never asked him to be a playmaker in those terms. I asked him to be a playmaker when he was doubled or tripled. Kobe has to set up the offense, read the defense, make others happy and he's doing a great job of it. Kobe has become the floor leader on a basketball team that was looking for that player who can not only be a scorer, but also be a playmaker who can consistently make big plays at critical times. It was very important for Kobe to step into that role he was envisioned at."

That's why you lose credibility.


Sorry Shaqattack, Shaq fell off during the 00's
lol nice try switching accounts tho brah :hammertime:

:oldlol: who is this punk? raptorfan isn't me either.

[Soundwave]

That sounds about right.

Kobe was awful in the playoffs to boot.

[DCL]

jordan was still clearly #1 at the same age.

[SAKOTXA]

Lol at Chris Paul being better than Kobe, someone was on that good shit while writing the article.

[All Net]

Lol at Chris Paul being better than Kobe, someone was on that good shit while writing the article.
You could argue in 08 he was close but that's it

[SAKOTXA]

You could argue in 08 he was close but that's it
Not to even mention his huge drop off last year...

I know he was coming back from an injury, but the guy averaged 16PPG and 9.8APG on 46% shooting.

Let's forget Kobe for a second...how is he better than Rose?

[thejumpa]

Not to even mention his huge drop off last year...

I know he was coming back from an injury, but the guy averaged 16PPG and 9.8APG on 46% shooting.

Let's forget Kobe for a second...how is he better than Rose?

Other than speed and acrobatic layups, name something that makes Rose the better player. Kobe does everything and more, as a 1st option(like Rose), at 33 years old with an iffy knee. Let's be real here.

At every game CP3 has played in this offseason, I've seen commentary about him looking sluggish and/or not being in basketball shape. I wonder if his knee is giving him any issues.

[SAKOTXA]

Other than speed and acrobatic layups, name something that makes Rose the better player. Kobe does everything and more, as a 1st option(like Rose), at 33 years old with an iffy knee. Let's be real here.

At every game CP3 has played in this offseason, I've seen commentary about him looking sluggish and/or not being in basketball shape. I wonder if his knee is giving him any issues.

How about leading his team to a 60+ win season and winning the MVP?

Oh and don't even dare to give me that bullshit reason of having bad teammates. Both Rose and CP3 have similar personnel. Rose and coaching are what actually put Chicago over the top.

[thejumpa]

How about leading his team to a 60+ win season and winning the MVP?

Oh and don't even dare to give me that bullshit reason of having bad teammates. Both Rose and CP3 have similar personnel. Rose and coaching are what actually put Chicago over the top.

Kobe led his team to 57 wins and 1st place in the West. Bad teammates? Dunno what you're talking about. Both Chicago and LA have solid squads. I'm a fan of Rose but ONE great season and an MVP that was clearly media/hype-pushed does not make him better than Kobe. Kobe didn't have the media behind him, put up similar stats and led his team to similar success. Both ended up flopping in the playoffs, so it's a wash there as well.

BTW I'm not talking about CP3 being better. I'm talking about Kobe.

[SAKOTXA]

Other than speed and acrobatic layups, name something that makes Rose the better player. Kobe does everything and more, as a 1st option(like Rose), at 33 years old with an iffy knee. Let's be real here.

At every game CP3 has played in this offseason, I've seen commentary about him looking sluggish and/or not being in basketball shape. I wonder if his knee is giving him any issues.

That.

The Kobe/CP3 argument is pointless, Kobe is just the better player. /end

[thejumpa]

That.

The Kobe/CP3 argument is pointless, Kobe is just the better player. /end

:oldlol:

Acrobatic layups makes him better. Righttttttttttttt...

[SAKOTXA]

:oldlol:

Acrobatic layups makes him better. Righttttttttttttt...
Are you stupid?

Go to my initial post. I wasn't saying that Rose is better than Kobe. Reading comprehension fail at its best.

[Force]

7 is too high, but if ESPN came out with just outside of the top 10 there would be a crazy outrage from LA fans. ESPN just played it "safe" by calling him #7. Not too high to piss people off, not too low as well.

I swore throughout this past season on this board, everybody was agreeing Kobe was clearly outside of the top 5 and at best a top 10 player.

[StroShow4]

Key word: ESPN. Sh!t is meaningless.

[with malice]

jordan was still clearly #1 at the same age.
Yet when he'd played his 15th season, the same as Kobe, he wasn't top 10 in the league. He was still good... but definitely not top ten.

[DCL]

Yet when he'd played his 15th season, the same as Kobe, he wasn't top 10 in the league. He was still good... but definitely not top ten.

you mean when jordan was already 40 years old?? you're using that for comparison? lol

[DCL]

anyway, forget kobe. that debate is endless.

but this list is simple retarded as fk to begin with.

pau gasol was ranked #11.

even his biggest groupie should laugh at that high ass ranking.

[StroShow4]

Knowing in advance that they'd be horrible, I decided to take a look at their rankings anyway.

So, according to ESPN, there are 38 NBA players better than Eric Gordon. Serge Ibaka is better than Paul Millsap. James harden is better than Chauncey Billups. Nicolas Batum is better than Stephen Jackson.

Really?

[EricForman]

Lol at Chris Paul being better than Kobe, someone was on that good shit while writing the article.


Were you in a coma during the first round series, when Chris Paul had guys like Trevor Ariza and Aaron Gray going against Kobe with Pau/Bynum/Odom/World Peace, AND CP had better numbers and won two games (remember he had significantly inferior cast)?

[EricForman]

i love these kiddies who just randomly bash ESPN if they don't agree with something they say.

most of y'all would give a left nut to be paid to write about basketball and get press pass to NBA games, stop hating. It's okay to disagree with the ratings and make your case, but to dismiss 91 guys as idiots or just hating? Grow up.

[catch24]

Read what I added...after you qouted me...


sh!t proves what I've been saying all along.....he was widely viewed as the best player in the League.....If you Think shaq is the best and every other article is about Kobe being great battling Shaq for control of the team....

then that means many had Kobe as Shaq's equal or better....


[quote]You trying to act like everyone just thought Shaq was the best.....that never happened...especially on the West Coast....

Way off. Maybe in your area where skitzo's run rampant, but here in Los Angeles, Shaq was the man. The best player in the league by miles. It wasn't until the 2002-2003 season (when Shaq was injured), Kobe had a case.

[Legends66NBA7]

Yet when he'd played his 15th season, the same as Kobe, he wasn't top 10 in the league. He was still good... but definitely not top ten.

Yeah, because he was a 39 year old going to be 40 year old. His 2nd and finals season with Wizards after a 3 year layoff.

[Legends66NBA7]

i love these kiddies who just randomly bash ESPN if they don't agree with something they say.

most of y'all would give a left nut to be paid to write about basketball and get press pass to NBA games, stop hating. It's okay to disagree with the ratings and make your case, but to dismiss 91 guys as idiots or just hating? Grow up.

While I don't think that ESPN's ranking or any other ranking are the "one all, say all" of everything, I'm not going to judge their ranking system. It is what it is for every human being, we all got different lists.

[StroShow4]

i love these kiddies who just randomly bash ESPN if they don't agree with something they say.

most of y'all would give a left nut to be paid to write about basketball and get press pass to NBA games, stop hating. It's okay to disagree with the ratings and make your case, but to dismiss 91 guys as idiots or just hating? Grow up.

Pretty difficult not to dismiss a list with as many blatant f@ck ups as this one. 107 NBA players better than Michael Beasley? Nene better than Andrew Bogut?

I could go on for a page. The list is awful.

[AlphaWolf24]

[QUOTE=AlphaWolf24]Read what I added...after you qouted me...


sh!t proves what I've been saying all along.....he was widely viewed as the best player in the League.....If you Think shaq is the best and every other article is about Kobe being great battling Shaq for control of the team....

then that means many had Kobe as Shaq's equal or better....




Way off. Maybe in your area where skitzo's run rampant, but here in Los Angeles, Shaq was the man. The best player in the league by miles. It wasn't until the 2002-2003 season (when Shaq was injured), Kobe had a case.


:facepalm ...If you are really from L.A.....(wich I doubt)...then you would know Shaq was injured in 01' also...and Came into Training Camp fat and outta shape....

Kobe was straight merking everyone in the first half of the 01' season...Real L.A. cat's were already saying he was the Best player on the team/World..

run back to the valley little homey....you know you don't belong here....prolly didn't even watch hoop in the early 00's

[catch24]

:facepalm ...If you are really from L.A.....(wich I doubt)...then you would know Shaq was injured in 01' also...and Came into Training Camp fat and outta shape....

Wait, you aren't even from Los Angeles and you're claiming what most West Coast fans were thinking? What a joke. :oldlol:

As another poster said before me, Shaq was widely regarded as the best/most dominant player on that team until the 2002-2003 season.

Back to irrelevance kiddo.

[Legends66NBA7]

Wait, you aren't even from Los Angeles and you're claiming what most West Coast fans were thinking? What a joke. :oldlol:

As another poster said before me, Shaq was widely regarded as the best/most dominant player on that team until the 2002-2003 season.

Back to irrelevance kiddo.

Yup, this is all that's relevant really, on court production:

2000 Playoff Run

Shaq 30.7ppg 15.4rpg 3.1apg 0.6spg 2.4bpg 2.4t/o 56.6%fg 45.6%ft

Kobe 21.1ppg 4.5rpg 4.4apg 1.5spg 1.5bpg 2.5t/o 44.2%fg 34.4%3pt 75.4%ft

2000 Finals Run

Shaq 38.0ppg 16.7 rpg 2.3 apg 1.0spg 2.7bpg 2.6t/o 61.1%fg 38.7%ft

Kobe 15.6ppg 4.2 apg 4.6 reb 1.0 spg 1.4bpg 1.2t/o 36.7%fg 20.0%3pt 90.9%ft

Who was just as important here ? Shaq was clearly more important to that team.


2001 Playoff Run

Shaq 30.4ppg 15.4rpg 3.2apg 0.4spg 2.4bpg 3.6t/o 55.5%fg 52.5%ft

Kobe 29.4ppg 7.3rpg 6.1apg 1.6spg 0.8bpg 3.2t/o 46.9%fg 32.4%3pt 82.1%ft

2001 Finals Run

Shaq 33.0ppg 15.8 rpg 4.4 apg 0.4spg 3.4bpg 4.0t/o 57.3%fg 51.3%ft

Kobe 24.6ppg 7.8 reb 5.8 apg 1.4spg 1.4bpg 3.6t/o 41.5%fg 33.3%3pt 84.2%ft

This was the one year that Kobe actually came close to that 1a/1b notion, arguably the better 3 round run. Shaq was clearly better in the Finals though.


2002 Playoff Run

Shaq 28.5ppg 12.6rpg 2.8apg 0.5spg 2.5bpg 3.3t/o 52.9%fg 64.9%ft

Kobe 26.6ppg 5.8rpg 4.6apg 1.4spg 0.9bpg 2.8t/o 43.4%fg 37.9%3pt 75.9%ft

2002 Finals Run

Shaq 36.3ppg 12.3 rpg 3.8 apg 0.5spg 2.8bpg 3.5t/o 59.5%fg 66.2%ft

Kobe 26.7ppg 5.2 apg 5.8 reb 1.5spg 0.8bpg 3.8t/o 51.4%fg 54.5%3pt 80.6%ft

Both played their role to the best in 2002. And again, Shaq was clearly the better player in 2002 Playoffs and Finals. Kobe played well in the Finals, though.


No popularity contest needed. Kobe wasn't going to win anything if Shaq wasn't on that team at the time.

[Jacks3]

Rose/CP3/Durant over Bryant. :facepalm

[Jacks3]

2001/2002 Kobe would have rings with a variety of bigs. lol @ that moron Legend66.

[DevilsAssassin]

Rose/CP3/Durant over Bryant. :facepalm

Kobe Bryant fan boys :facepalm

U MAD?

[Jacks3]

Retarded Kobe haters.

:facepalm

The Greatness of Kobe Bean Bryant!!!
9X All-NBA 1st Team
2X All-NBA 2nd Team
2X All-NBA 3rd Team
9X All-NBA 1st Team Defense
2X All-NBA 2nd Team Defense
5X Top 5 DPOY/9X Top 10 DPOY
13X Time All-Star
4X Time All-Star MVP
2X NBA Finals MVP
1X NBA MVP
10th All-Time in MVP Shares
2X Scoring Champion
5 Time NBA Champion
7 Time NBA Finalist
10 55+ Win Seasons
15X Player of the Month Winner
Slam Dunk Champion (1997)
#1 Offensive APM (10 Year Study)
#10 All-Time in WAR
24 Career Average PER (15 Seasons)
2X Gold Medalist
Sporting News Player of the Decade
TNT Player of the Decade
ESPN Player of the Decade
Sports Illustrated Top 20 Male Athlete of the Decade (2000s) #7 (the only NBA player in the top 10)


Has more 50+ point games than any player in history not named Wilt or Jordan (25)
Has more 40+ point games than any player in history not named Wilt or Jordan (110)
Has more 60+ point games than any player in history not named Wilt (5)
Record Holder: Highest percentage of team points (2005-2006)
Record Holder: Most threes in one game (12)
Only player in history to score at least 600 points in three consecutive post-seasons
2001-2010 RS: 28.6 PPG/5.7 RPG/5.4 APG/1.7 SPG/0.6 BPG/56% TS
2001-2010 PS: 28.8 PPG/5.8 RPG/5.2 APG/1.8 SPG/0.6 BPG/56% TS
Some of his best seasons:
35 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/0.5 BPG/56% TS
32 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.5 BPG/58% TS
30 PPG/7 RPG/6 APG/2 SPG/1 BPG/55% TS
29 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/0.6 BPG/55% TS
28 PPG/6 RPG/6 APG/2 SPG/0.5 BPG/58% TS
27 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.5 BPG/56% TS
27 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.4 BPG/55% TS
28 PPG/6 RPG/6 APG/1.4 SPG/0.5 BPG/56% TS
26 PPG/6 APG/6 RPG/2 SPG/0.6 BPG/55% TS
Some of his best post-seasons:
29 PPG/7 RPG/6 APG/2 SPG/1 BPG/56% TS (16 games)
27 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/2 SPG/0.5 BPG/52% TS (22 games)
30 PPG/6 APG/6 APG/1.4 SPG/0.5 BPG/58% TS (22 games)
30 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/1.5 SPG/0.4 BPG/57% TS (23 games)
29 PPG/6 RPG/6 APG/1.4 SPG/0.4 BPG/57% TS (23 games)
29 PPG/6 RPG/5 APG/1.3 SPG/0.3 BPG/58% TS (7 games)
33 PPG/5 RPG/5 APG/1.4 SPG/0.4 BPG/56% TS (5 games)
4 straight 45+ point games (2006)
4 straight 50+ point games (2007)
9 straight 40+ point games (2003)
13 straight 35+ point games (2003)
81 pts
62 points in three quarters. Outscored opposing team by himself.
27 40+ point games in one season (Only Wilt/Jordan have done that)
10 50+ point games in one season (Only player beside Wilt to do so)
Has three different games where he scored 30+ in one quarter.
Has six different games where he scored 50+ pts though three quarters.
Has five different months where he averaged 40+ PPG.
One of seven players ever with 25,000 pts/5,000 rbs/5,000 asts
6th on All-Time Scoring List
4th on All-Time Playoff Scoring List




U sad?

[Jacks3]

Like who?
Brand
Pau
KG
Duncan
Wallace
Webber
Dirk
etc
All instant contenders with 2001/2002 Kobe. :bowdown: :bowdown:

[SAKOTXA]

Were you in a coma during the first round series, when Chris Paul had guys like Trevor Ariza and Aaron Gray going against Kobe with Pau/Bynum/Odom/World Peace, AND CP had better numbers and won two games (remember he had significantly inferior cast)?
I was comparing CP3-s and Rose's supporting casts.

Noah=Okafor
Boozer<West
Ariza=/= Deng
Bogans = Belinelli
Rose > CP3

Jarret Jack >> Watson
Carl Landry = Taj Gibson
Korver > Willie Green

Rose is a better player than CP3. And yeah, i watched him destroy a 40 year old Fisher. :oldlol:

[EricForman]

I was comparing CP3-s and Rose's supporting casts.

Noah=Okafor
Boozer<West
Ariza=/= Deng
Bogans = Belinelli
Rose > CP3

Jarret Jack >> Watson
Carl Landry = Taj Gibson
Korver > Willie Green

Rose is a better player than CP3. And yeah, i watched him destroy a 40 year old Fisher. :oldlol:


You really think Ariza is as good as Deng, or West is better than Boozer? BTW, West was hurt during the playoffs.

try again.

[RoseCity07]

When Kobe gets hot he is number 1. No one can do what he does except maybe Dwyane Wade. Top 10 for a guy with a bum knee is pretty good.

[csklmf]

Kobe should be just well within 20th. 7th is too high.

:violin:

[SAKOTXA]

You really think Ariza is as good as Deng, or West is better than Boozer? BTW, West was hurt during the playoffs.

try again.
Yes, Ariza is less injury prone and more reliable. Their numbers are very similar besides in the scoring department.

That is understandable, though. With all the extra attention Rose gets on his drives, wing players definitely benefit and get open looks.

Is West being better than Boozer even a question? lol. Make a thread about it and lets see what people think.

[Legends66NBA7]

Yes, Ariza is less injury prone and more reliable. Their numbers are very similar besides in the scoring department.

That is understandable, though. With all the extra attention Rose gets on his drives, wing players definitely benefit and get open looks.

Is West being better than Boozer even a question? lol. Make a thread about it and lets see what people think.

Both players entered the NBA at the same time and Deng has played 27 more games than Ariza.

Deng played a full 82 games last year and has played 2 full seasons to Ariza's 1 full season. Ariza missed 7 games last year.

Last Season

Deng: 17.4ppg 5.8rpg 2.8apg 1.0spg 0.6bpg 1.9t/o 46.0%fg 34.5%3pt 75.3%ft
Ariza: 11.0ppg 5.4rpg 2.2apg 1.6spg 0.4bpg 1.6t/o 39.8%fg 30.3%3pt 70.1%ft

Deng does play about 4.4 MPG, but Ariza is just an enigma offensively. Deng's more consistent offensively and yes he's the better defender too.

Full Career's

Deng: 16.0ppg 6.4rpg 2.3apg 1.0spg 0.6bpg 1.8t/o 47.1%fg 32.7%3pt 76.4%ft
Ariza: 8.9ppg 4.3rpg 1.8apg 1.3spg 0.3bpg 1.3t/o 43.3%fg 31.6%3pt 66.5%ft

No contest, really. Ariza had a lot of attention in L.A., shot about 46.0%fg but still couldn't average double digits.

I have made the Boozer vs West thread by the way.

[SAKOTXA]

Both players entered the NBA at the same time and Deng has played 27 more games than Ariza.

Deng played a full 82 games last year and has played 2 full seasons to Ariza's 1 full season. Ariza missed 7 games last year.

Last Season

Deng: 17.4ppg 5.8rpg 2.8apg 1.0spg 0.6bpg 1.9t/o 46.0%fg 34.5%3pt 75.3%ft
Ariza: 11.0ppg 5.4rpg 2.2apg 1.6spg 0.4bpg 1.6t/o 39.8%fg 30.3%3pt 70.1%ft

Deng does play about 4.4 MPG, but Ariza is just an enigma offensively. Deng's more consistent offensively and yes he's the better defender too.

Full Career's

Deng: 16.0ppg 6.4rpg 2.3apg 1.0spg 0.6bpg 1.8t/o 47.1%fg 32.7%3pt 76.4%ft
Ariza: 8.9ppg 4.3rpg 1.8apg 1.3spg 0.3bpg 1.3t/o 43.3%fg 31.6%3pt 66.5%ft

No contest, really. Ariza had a lot of attention in L.A., shot about 46.0%fg but still couldn't average double digits.

I have made the Boozer vs West thread by the way.

Look at their last 3 seasons: Ariza has played 239 games.
Deng has played 204

Like i said, Ariza would benefit from playing alongside a dominant superstar just like Rose. We saw what he was capable of doing in the 2009 playoffs.

Yea, i saw the thread. It's not a coincidence that the two people that voted have under 200 posts, lol.

[Dave3]

Look at their last 3 seasons: Ariza has played 239 games.
Deng has played 204

Like i said, Ariza would benefit from playing alongside a dominant superstar just like Rose. We saw what he was capable of doing in the 2009 playoffs.

Yea, i saw the thread. It's not a coincidence that the two people that voted have under 200 posts, lol.
Deng has played in 84% of all of the possible games in his career. Ariza has played in 80%.

Deng's numbers are skewed by one injury that happened 3 years ago. He played 82 and 70 games the past 2 years.

Ariza did have one year alongside a superstar and it was hardly as impressive as Deng's 17/6/3. Ariza averaged 9/4/2. In fact, Ariza never averaged double digit points until reaching the Rockets, where he shot under 40% to get those double digit points. Deng on the other hand has had a full career in the high teens of ppg on 47% FG%. I'd say that's a pretty considerable scoring margin to make the overall player comparison very clear.

Deng > Ariza (and I hate saying what I'm about to say) and it's actually not all that close. Deng gives you 2 more rebounds, 7 more points, and on a higher efficiency. Ariza is well known for his defense, but so is Deng.

Oh, and in the playoffs Ariza averaged 11/4/2 (47% FG%). While this was playing with Kobe/Gasol, it was also against the defense of Melo/Pietrus/(whoever on the Jazz couldn't guard Kobe that particular possession). This was Deng's first year with a superstar and he averaged 17/7/3 (43% FG%) while being defended by Granger/Pacers swingmen/LeBron/Wade/Joe Johnson/Marvin Williams. The latter faced better defense and fared better. And it's not like he didn't have to share the ball either.

[Legends66NBA7]

Look at their last 3 seasons: Ariza has played 239 games.
Deng has played 204

Like i said, Ariza would benefit from playing alongside a dominant superstar just like Rose. We saw what he was capable of doing in the 2009 playoffs.

Yea, i saw the thread. It's not a coincidence that the two people that voted have under 200 posts, lol.

Why hand pick the last 3 years only ? I know Ariza had a foot fracture that had him out for pretty much the rest of 08 and most of the playoffs that year. Deng's more durable by looking at the whole career.

Yes Ariza did benefit from not only a dominant superstar, but superior scoring system. Also he had two 7 foot, skilled big men. Gasol > Boozer. Bynum > Noah. Deng was still more efficient and a better scorer. Deng was also the better defender but if you want to argue that, they would still cancel each other out.

Yeah, wasn't expecting much positive feedback there, but I haven't made a thread in a bit, so I tried lol...

[Legends66NBA7]

Oh, and in the playoffs Ariza averaged 11/4/2 (47% FG%). While this was playing with Kobe/Gasol, it was also against the defense of Melo/Pietrus/(whoever on the Jazz couldn't guard Kobe that particular possession). This was Deng's first year with a superstar and he averaged 17/7/3 (43% FG%) while being defended by Granger/Pacers swingmen/LeBron/Wade/Joe Johnson/Marvin Williams. The latter faced better defense and fared better. And it's not like he didn't have to share the ball either.

Yeah, good addition of the playoff numbers, Dave.

[Duncan21formvp]

they haven't officially announced it but Royce Webb has given enough hints to know that Kobe is 7. it's based on a vote of 90+ NBA journalists.

I'm just starting this right now, so we can spare the Alphwolfs and Eliteballer starting 11 threads with misleading/agenda-driven titles.

Don't like the list. I can't understand how you can be #1 when a guy who came off the bench outscored you in a series when you are 5th all time in playoff scoring.

[sh0wtime]

I know it's just one group's list and really doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. But I had a couple problems with it.

First, Chris Paul is a tremendous player and is easily top 10 guy in the league. But how in the world is he ranked higher than both Dirk and Kobe? Dirk ran through: Kobe, Durant, Westbrook, Lebron, Wade, and Bosh in the postseason, outplaying all of them. Kobe still had a pretty damn good year last year and was just gased in the postseason after 3 straight Finals runs and an Olympics. But there is still plenty more to hear from Kobe. Paul is great, but a guy who has never gotten out of the second round should not be ranked higher than both Dirk and Kobe at this point, the two guys who hold the previous 3 Finals MVP trophies.

Dwight Howard at second? Again, easily a top 10 player in the league but his team got rolled by the Atlanta Hawks in the first round last year. Dirk should be ranked higher than Howard and maybe Wade. Lebron might be the best all around talent in the league, but Dirk has really a case for being the best player until proven otherwise after last season. He certainly deserves to be ranked higher than Howard and Chris Paul.

And Blake Griffin at 10 over Gasol, Melo, and Amare is just ridiculous. Griffin was a spectacular rookie on a 32 win team. He's a great great player, but is not top 10 just yet. Gasol had a lousy postseason last year, but the guy was huge in those two years LA won the championship and has been so great for them that he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Melo has been an elite scorer year after year for a long time. Amare has been a beast for a decade and completely transformed the Knicks last year. You can't say Griffin is already better than those three guys.

[Legends66NBA7]

I know it's just one group's list and really doesn't mean anything in the grand scheme of things. But I had a couple problems with it.

First, Chris Paul is a tremendous player and is easily top 10 guy in the league. But how in the world is he ranked higher than both Dirk and Kobe? Dirk ran through: Kobe, Durant, Westbrook, Lebron, Wade, and Bosh in the postseason, outplaying all of them. Kobe still had a pretty damn good year last year and was just gased in the postseason after 3 straight Finals runs and an Olympics. But there is still plenty more to hear from Kobe. Paul is great, but a guy who has never gotten out of the second round should not be ranked higher than both Dirk and Kobe at this point, the two guys who hold the previous 3 Finals MVP trophies.

Dwight Howard at second? Again, easily a top 10 player in the league but his team got rolled by the Atlanta Hawks in the first round last year. Dirk should be ranked higher than Howard and maybe Wade. Lebron might be the best all around talent in the league, but Dirk has really a case for being the best player until proven otherwise after last season. He certainly deserves to be ranked higher than Howard and Chris Paul.

And Blake Griffin at 10 over Gasol, Melo, and Amare is just ridiculous. Griffin was a spectacular rookie on a 32 win team. He's a great great player, but is not top 10 just yet. Gasol had a lousy postseason last year, but the guy was huge in those two years LA won the championship and has been so great for them that he deserves the benefit of the doubt. Melo has been an elite scorer year after year for a long time. Amare has been a beast for a decade and completely transformed the Knicks last year. You can't say Griffin is already better than those three guys.

+1.

Excellent break down, sh0wtime.

[Bladers]

ESPN? Top 7? LMAO... :roll: :roll:

Kobe - 28 ppg, 6 rebs, 6 assists

/nuff said

[KobeRules24]

ESPN? Top 7? LMAO... :roll: :roll:

Kobe - 28 ppg, 6 rebs, 6 assists

/nuff said

kobe= 16 years and going strong. the only player from his draft class still playing at a high level. will go down as top 5 all time. what a remarkable player :bowdown:

[Xyph]

So is Wade top 50?

[DaHeezy]

they haven't officially announced it but Royce Webb has given enough hints to know that Kobe is 7. it's based on a vote of 90+ NBA journalists.

I'm just starting this right now, so we can spare the Alphwolfs and Eliteballer starting 11 threads with misleading/agenda-driven titles.

Ironic how you accuse Kobe trolls of creating a thread with this subject with an agenda yet you created this with an agenda yourself by Ko(be)ck blocking.

[Dragonyeuw]

kobe= 16 years and going strong. the only player from his draft class still playing at a high level.

Ray Allen at 36 is still playing well too..

[kuniva_dAMiGhTy]

ESPN? Top 7? LMAO... :roll: :roll:

Kobe - 28 ppg, 6 rebs, 6 assists

/nuff said

43% shooting :bowdown:

[CardiacKemba]

ESPN? Top 7? LMAO... :roll: :roll:

Kobe - 28 ppg, 6 rebs, 6 assists

/nuff said

He is ballin' great right now, and playing with a chip on his shoulder. But still I see #7 as a fair reflection.

[Faptastrophe]

He is ballin' great right now, and playing with a chip on his shoulder. But still I see #7 as a fair reflection.
http://forums.ederon.net/images/emoticons/norm_ThumbUp.gif

[rhythmic]

43% shooting :bowdown:

Which includes a horrible 6 for 28 performance.
His combined total for the other eight games is over 50% I believe.

Plus his wrist is swollen.

[rhythmic]

Kobe minus the horrible Denver games:

85 for 180 (47%), 6.75 RPG, 6 APG, 29.25 PPG in 35 MPG

Just wrap your head around these numbers for a guy who is playing in his 16th season in the league already.

[RintjeRitsma]

[QUOTE=rhythmic

[rhythmic]

With this logic you can give every player a good shooting %.

I'm not inflating his stats, I am telling you he has been incredible for eight out of the nine games this season.

[rodman91]

He plays as expected.

27.8 ppg (44%) in Mike Brown's system.

Kevin Love is the man.

26.1 ppg 14.9 rpg (48%, 42%, 79%)

:bowdown:

[SlayerEnraged]

Kobe's automatically in the top 5 so far this year cause he's the best shooting guard at this point in the season. If u wanna know my honest opinion..I'd say He's behind Lebron and second best player at this point. He leads shooting guards in ppg, 2nd highest apg of any shooting guard, and 1st in rpg for shooting guards. :lol at u morons not thinkin he's top 5.

[Heavincent]

Kobe has been a top 5 player so far this season, if not top 3.

[dynasty1978]

With this logic you can give every player a good shooting %.

This would make for interesting experiment, to take the worst game out of the top 5-10 players and see how it shakes out statistically.

[IGOTGAME]

Tried to write off Kobe too soon.

[Legends66NBA7]

Tried to write off Kobe too soon.

Well, I hope he can maintain this form of his.

It's going to be an interesting playoff run for him. Might have to go through OKC, San Antonio/Memphis/Clippers/Miami.

Wonder if he can carry his Lakers that far.

[Kiddlovesnets]

Hes washed up, shouldnt be top 10 anymore.